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From: paulus@nextdown.pe.utexas.edu (Paulus Adisoemarta) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: *again* NXHost'ing to a NextDimension. Date: 31 Mar 1998 18:46:51 GMT Organization: Petroleum Engineering Dept, U of Texas, Austin Message-ID: <6frdmr$h5o$1@socony.pe.utexas.edu> References: <6fcg4t$4ll@vespucci.advicom.net> <1d6lm0o.14bn0ftoqnvwgN@cetus205.wco.com> Xcanpos: shelf.01/199804132201!0009659405 Mike Paquette <mpaque@wco.com> wrote: > >or an IP security system that prevents the nmservers from forming a >connection between the two machines. (They normally connect on a secure >port) This happens to me 2 years ago when every checks passed, but still no NXHosting can happen between two ND Cubes at two different campuses (one in West Texas and the other one at UT in Austin). To bypass the firewall at the West Texas campus, I used IP tunneling (IP on IP encapsulation) via a simple box (8088 running KA9Q/NOS) at UT and a linux box at the other end. Another solution is to move the nmserver ports to the unpriviledged ones. Paulus
From: Andre-John Mas <ama@fabre.act.qc.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OpenStep/Rhapsody directory structure Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:41:16 -0500 Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980401132818.9380B-100000@fabre.act.qc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Xcanpos: shelf.01/199804132201!0035892852 Since I have never used OpenStep or Rhapsody I am still a little naive in the ways these OSs do things. Since Rhapsody is based on a Mach kernal will the way directories are used be similar to the Unix way of doing things, ie placing everything in bin directory, or will we have the freedom of being able to place our files anywhere, without having to specify paths. I must admit that I do like the ability to have all the system elements in one place and then being able to put the rest of the stuff anywhere and have the system dynamically deal with their locations. For example if I put my application in directory X the system will know its there when I want to open a file, withou first having to set up a path environment variable. Maybe I am used to the MacOS'S 'the system will handle it for you' attitude, though it saves me a great deal of effort. Though I can't stand Windows95's 'you don't know what you want attitude' where it goes insists in capitalizing file names in way that you don't want it to. AJ
From: Charles Swiger <chuck-nospam@blacksmith.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep/Rhapsody directory structure Date: 1 Apr 1998 20:54:20 GMT Organization: BLaCKSMITH, Inc. Message-ID: <6fu9hs$c7j$5@anvil.BLaCKSMITH.com> References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980401132818.9380B-100000@fabre.act.qc.ca> Xcanpos: shelf.01/199804140201!0020954822 Andre-John Mas <ama@fabre.act.qc.ca> wrote: > Since I have never used OpenStep or Rhapsody I am still a little naive > in the ways these OSs do things. Since Rhapsody is based on a Mach > kernal will the way directories are used be similar to the Unix way > of doing things, ie placing everything in bin directory, or will we > have the freedom of being able to place our files anywhere, without > having to specify paths. This has been discussed before in some detail. The short answer is that you are free to place your files anywhere you want, but life is going to be easier (especially if others use your machine, or you're networked) if you understand the conventions and follow them unless you have some reason to do things differently. In particular, there is a difference between the Workspace (or Finder, or whatever you wish to call the GUI window manager) and shells in terms of environment. It's possible that Rhapsody will associate files with their default apps regardless of where they're placed, but for those who want to use the command line, you'll deal with normal Unix paths.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@BLaCKSMITH.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+----------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.EDIE-YOU> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rhapsody ROM monitor? Date: 2 Apr 1998 04:33:40 GMT Organization: Carnegie Mellon Univ. -- Computer Science Dept. Message-ID: <6fv4f4$dnv$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> Xcanpos: shelf.01/199804141001!0010945786 Is there a ROM monitor in Rhapsody? Specifically, I'm looking for a way to interrupt the boot process (in case it's necessary to boot single-user) similar to what commmand-tilde does on a NeXT. Thanks, -Jared
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6fs6on$cn9$1@server-a.cs.interbusiness.it> Control: cancel <6fs6on$cn9$1@server-a.cs.interbusiness.it> Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:51:50 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6fs6on$cn9$1@server-a.cs.interbusiness.it> Sender: spazza@msoft.it Xcanpos: shelf.01/199804021801!0071596629 Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6g26qf$t39@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <6g26qf$t39@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:32:16 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6g26qf$t39@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Sender: fun@singleboysngirls.com (Advertisement) Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: scamp@mail.info2000.net (Richard Warner) Subject: NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/Rhapsody Software Developers Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <35250528.0@10.254.2.20> Date: 3 Apr 98 15:50:00 GMT Hi - Wondering if developers in Colorado would like to get together sometime this spring? There used to be a user's group in Denver, but alas I have not heard anything from it for...years. I believe it would be a kick to meet others in the local developer community. Anyone else interested? Post here and maybe email me directly too. Thanks. Rich rwarner@prv.com Consultant: Design, implem, maintenance coding, database modeling, and porting.
From: stefan@ping.at (Stefan Schneider) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Attention SuperDraw4 Users! Date: 3 Apr 1998 17:26:28 GMT Organization: Customer of EUnet Austria Message-ID: <6g3644$4th$1@news.Austria.EU.net> This is a message to _registered_ users of SuperDraw4 who cannot use their licensed copy of SD4 anymore because their Host ID has changed, and because Impact Inc., manufacturer of SD4, has vanished some time ago, w/o even a single tweet. Stefan Schneider Software, (former) Business Alliance Partner of Impact Inc., may now be able to help you. For more information, please send email to <stefan@ping.at>. regards, - Stefan Schneider -- Stefan Schneider Software Dipl.Ing. Stefan Schneider Lerchenfelder St. 85/6 A-1070 Vienna, Austria, Europe voice/fax: +43-1-523-5834 e-mail: stefan@ping.at (NeXTMail preferred, MIME welcome) web: http://members.ping.at/stefan/
From: Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody ROM monitor? Date: 2 Apr 1998 21:02:46 GMT Organization: University of Oregon, Eugene Message-ID: <6g0udm$ct5$2@pith.uoregon.edu> References: <6fv4f4$dnv$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.EDIE-YOU> wrote: > Is there a ROM monitor in Rhapsody? Specifically, I'm looking for a > way to interrupt the boot process (in case it's necessary to boot > single-user) similar to what commmand-tilde does on a NeXT. > Thanks, > -Jared If you are on mac hardware it can be done by setting the rhapsody control pannel on the mac side and writing the values to the pram. wes -- ~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vax a vicious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its *DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users.
From: Charles Swiger <chuck-nospam@blacksmith.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Configure App Crashes on Intel Date: 4 Apr 1998 00:20:07 GMT Organization: BLaCKSMITH, Inc. Message-ID: <6g3ubn$452$5@anvil.BLaCKSMITH.com> References: <351923E2.76BB165F@MacEquation.com> Scott Turner <Scott@MacEquation.com> wrote: > I was running Rhapsody DR1 on an Intel machine (P100 w/FX chipset) > without any problems. I recently upgraded the motherboard to a TX Pro > chipset with a Cyrix 200 MMX and did a clean install of Rhapsody. You may lose with that config. There is a known issue that the exception frames of the Cyrix processors are not identical to the ones created by genuine Intel processors. This causes NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, and I guess Rhapsody to crash sporadically, especially when running multithreaded apps. > Does anyone have experience with this problem? And, is there any way to > configure drivers manually without using the Configure app? Yes. Take a look at /usr/Devices/System.config/Instance0.table and the various Instance* files in the driver directories under /usr/Devices. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@BLaCKSMITH.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+----------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: Good Info Services <Goodinfo@Anonymous.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: Be your own Internet Detective! Message-ID: <8c30.10d0c.1fe@tecra> Organization: Good Info Services content-length: 3947 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:08:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 19:08:31 PST Introducing the hottest new personal information locator product… INTERNET INVESTIGATOR!! Find out almost anything about almost anyone, LEGALLY!! Want to get the hard facts about someone's past? Or present? In a new relationship? Hiring a new employee? Want to find out something about that suspicious neighbor? Starting a new business relationship? Trying to find your natural parents? Want to find an old Army buddy? Need to validate a Social Security number? Or even find out about your own past. Now, you can find out what information about you is available to others! This is the opportunity to find and fix incorrect information! Find out all of this and more right on the Internet! Internet Investigator is the best and easiest way to get hard to find information on and off the Internet! Our new 58 page report tells you where and how to find almost any kind of information about someone or a business. Order today, and we will send the report to you via e-mail on the same day at half price! No waiting and get a great deal! There are many sources of information on the Internet, but finding them can be tricky and time consuming. Search Engines are great for simple queries, but it can take hours upon hours to refine your search to find the one site that can offer you access to the kind of personal information you are looking for. THIS REPORT MAKES IT EASY AND FAST! Here is a partial list of topics… Investigations Adoption Tips on searching People locators Medical sites Credit information Governmental E-mail and Internet information Military State government listings Legal and political Business sources Jobs and screening Laws and statutes Mailing lists Worldwide demographics Media Miscellaneous AND MUCH, MUCH MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As a special introductory promotion, we are offering this report at half price! Yes, half price! Order today and get the Internet Investigator for only $49.95! That's half off the normal price of $99.95! How can we offer this for so little? We want to get this incredible new report out so you can tell your friends how great this opportunity is! Don't delay because this special price is only good until April 15, 1998! This one is for real! Order today and have it today! We will send the report to you via e-mail when we get your order! CHECKS BY FAX ACCEPTED! Just fill out the order form below and fax or mail it, along with your check made payable to Good Info for $49.95, and we will e-mail the report to you the same day we get your order! Name_______________________________________________________ E-mail ______________________________________________________ (Be sure you type it correctly so that you can get the report a.s.a.p.) Address_____________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________ City _____________________________ St _________ Zip __________ Phone (in case there are questions) ________________________________ Fax _________________________________________________________ _______ Check here if you prefer to have the report sent to you via priority mail. You will receive a hard copy of the report along with an HTML file on disk. There is an additional $4.50 shipping and handling charge for mail delivery. Disk Format PC _______ Mac ________ (Only if requested for mail delivery) Tape check here OUR FAX NUMBER IS (415) 487-9350 Or mail to: Good Info Services 584 Castro St, Suite 464 San Francisco, CA 94114 Hurry! Don't miss this special price! There will be a $25.00 fee for all returned checks.
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <19601890542823@digifix.com> Date: 29 Mar 1998 04:50:50 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <22277891147627@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu (Sean Harding) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Compiling for NS 3.3 under OS 4.2 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 00:37:22 -0800 Organization: University of Oregon Message-ID: <sharding-0404980037220001@owl.uoregon.edu> [)%i~h?)D!-%[A17<5rtTts~/!y;KxLNnQ=.VVZxFUssdm7sx^(*b0kpnbbC+YZMrVkH aB6DW[jU}@`M What do I need to do to successfully compile software on a Slab running OPENSTEP 4.2 for my Slab running NEXTSTEP 3.3? I compiled a simple C program that just does a printf() and it bus errors. A larger program seg faulted...I haven't been able to get anything that was compiled on the OPENSTEP machine to run on the NEXTSTEP machine (the binaries work fine on the machine they were compiled on, and 'file' says "Mach-O executable (for architecture m68k)". TIA Sean -- Sean Harding, sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/
From: nospam+yes_this_is_a_valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Compiling for NS 3.3 under OS 4.2 Date: 4 Apr 1998 18:01:04 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6g5sh0$e0r$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> References: <sharding-0404980037220001@owl.uoregon.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu OpenStep is backwards compatible with NeXTStep, but NeXTstep cannot run OpenStep. You can setup NeXTstep developer tools under OpenStep, and there's a script to help you set this up, but binaries compiled under OpenStep itself won't work under NS. Search for 'Dual developer' to find the script or drop me a line if you can't find it. TjL -- [do NOT remove the 'nospam' to reply!]
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: cmsg cancel <8c30.10d0c.1fe@tecra> Control: cancel <8c30.10d0c.1fe@tecra> Date: 04 Apr 1998 05:44:49 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.8c30.10d0c.1fe@tecra> Sender: Good Info Services <Goodinfo@Anonymous.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "macghod" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: help! Date: 5 Apr 1998 04:24:07 GMT Message-ID: <01bc4241$d5c69500$22f0bfa8@davidsul> Openstep 4.2 is simply a bitch to install for me. People have suggested that I use a slower cd because openstep doesnt like panasonic 24x cd's. The only other cd I have is a sony 2x2 cdr with a tekram dc 310 scsi adapter. I have no idea which driver to use with this? This is a partial list of the symptoms of the problem with the panasonic and possibly the western digital hard drive as well: hc0 : lba supported hc0 drive 0 pio mode 4 hc0: drive 1: pio mode 3 registering hc0 hd0 wdc ac34300l 10.08mil hd0 : 8896 cylinders, 15 heads, 63 spt (disk geometry) hd0: using multisector (16) transfers. registering: hd0 hd0: no valid disk label // their is only 1 partition, and its labeled hd0: device block size 512 bytes hd0: device capacity 4104 mb //(free space is at beginning) idedisk disk 1 is atapi hc1: pIIx4 pci ide controller at dev 7 func 1 bus 0 hc1 pci bus master dma disabled hc1 no devices detected at port 0x170 registering sc0 sd0 matshita cd rom cr 585 zs18 registering sd0 at target 1 lun 0 at sco sd0 waiting for drive to come ready sd0 device block size 2048 bytes sd0 device capacity: 488 mb sd0 disk label openstep_4.2 registering< sgo -sg3 at sc0> root o sd0 rootdev 600, howto 0 power management is enabled. sd0 : no error to report; retrying target 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 <same> io error on pagein(breadDirect) sd0 media error retrying target: 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 io error on pagein (breadDirect Root device is mounted read-only filesystem check skipped sd0: media error retrying target 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 <continued with this error and io error on pagein (breaddirect) /preicate/etc/rc.cdrom: illegal instruction also has sd0: no error to report; fatal. target 1 lun 0 op read block 226640 blockcount: 4 after long list of this it gets to the startup disk in this computer is ide disk #1 (type 255 - 4104 mb installing causes more of the same errors, these repeat infinitely
From: "macghod" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help!! Date: 5 Apr 1998 04:29:09 GMT Message-ID: <01bc4242$89efcc40$22f0bfa8@davidsul> Installing openstep 4.2 is a huge pain! It has been suggested that I use a slower cd because os does not like panasonic 24 x cdroms. The only other cd I have is a sony 2x2 cdr (cd burner) with a tekram dc 310 scsi adapter. I have no idea what driver to use with this????? These are the sysptoms of the problem with the panasonic (and possibly the western digital drive as well??) hc0 : lba supported hc0 drive 0 pio mode 4 hc0: drive 1: pio mode 3 registering hc0 hd0 wdc ac34300l 10.08mil hd0 : 8896 cylinders, 15 heads, 63 spt (disk geometry) hd0: using multisector (16) transfers. registering: hd0 hd0: no valid disk label // their is only 1 partition, and its labeled hd0: device block size 512 bytes hd0: device capacity 4104 mb //(free space is at beginning) idedisk disk 1 is atapi hc1: pIIx4 pci ide controller at dev 7 func 1 bus 0 hc1 pci bus master dma disabled hc1 no devices detected at port 0x170 registering sc0 sd0 matshita cd rom cr 585 zs18 registering sd0 at target 1 lun 0 at sco sd0 waiting for drive to come ready sd0 device block size 2048 bytes sd0 device capacity: 488 mb sd0 disk label openstep_4.2 registering< sgo -sg3 at sc0> root o sd0 rootdev 600, howto 0 power management is enabled. sd0 : no error to report; retrying target 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 <same> io error on pagein(breadDirect) sd0 media error retrying target: 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 io error on pagein (breadDirect Root device is mounted read-only filesystem check skipped sd0: media error retrying target 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 <continued with this error and io error on pagein (breaddirect) /preicate/etc/rc.cdrom: illegal instruction also has sd0: no error to report; fatal. target 1 lun 0 op read block 226640 blockcount: 4 after long list of this it gets to the startup disk in this computer is ide disk #1 (type 255 - 4104 mb installing causes more of the same errors, these repeat infinitely
From: "macghod" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Openstep 4.2 and sony cdr Date: 5 Apr 1998 01:42:33 GMT Message-ID: <01bc422b$44153a00$26f0bfa8@davidsul> I am trying to install Openstep 4.2 with a primary master = western digital 4 gig primary master = panasonic 24 x atapi drive (matshita 585) This does not work (see bellow), and people have suggested to try a slower speed cd. I only have one other cd (anyone in santa barbara want to lend me one?), which is a sony cdr 2x2. The scsi card is a tekram dc310 fast scsi 2 adapter. I do not know which driver to use to install openstep with this external cdr, instead of installing from the internal 24x panasonic which is having problems. Bellow is a partial log using the 3-24-98 updated driver disk from apple: hc0 : lba supported hc0 drive 0 pio mode 4 hc0: drive 1: pio mode 3 registering hc0 hd0 wdc ac34300l 10.08mil hd0 : 8896 cylinders, 15 heads, 63 spt (disk geometry) hd0: using multisector (16) transfers. registering: hd0 hd0: no valid disk label // their is only 1 partition, and its labeled hd0: device block size 512 bytes hd0: device capacity 4104 mb //(free space is at beginning) idedisk disk 1 is atapi hc1: pIIx4 pci ide controller at dev 7 func 1 bus 0 hc1 pci bus master dma disabled hc1 no devices detected at port 0x170 registering sc0 sd0 matshita cd rom cr 585 zs18 registering sd0 at target 1 lun 0 at sco sd0 waiting for drive to come ready sd0 device block size 2048 bytes sd0 device capacity: 488 mb sd0 disk label openstep_4.2 registering< sgo -sg3 at sc0> root o sd0 rootdev 600, howto 0 power management is enabled. sd0 : no error to report; retrying target 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 <same> io error on pagein(breadDirect) sd0 media error retrying target: 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 io error on pagein (breadDirect Root device is mounted read-only filesystem check skipped sd0: media error retrying target 1 lun 0 op read block 226576 <continued with this error and io error on pagein (breaddirect) /preicate/etc/rc.cdrom: illegal instruction also has sd0: no error to report; fatal. target 1 lun 0 op read block 226640 blockcount: 4 after long list of this it gets to the startup disk in this computer is ide disk #1 (type 255 - 4104 mb installing causes more of the same errors, these repeat infinitely
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6fu7sr$6sj$308@news.tm.net.my> Control: cancel <6fu7sr$6sj$308@news.tm.net.my> Date: 01 Apr 1998 20:52:44 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6fu7sr$6sj$308@news.tm.net.my> Sender: Ted Bilmer<ted@biosys.net> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <22277891147627@digifix.com> Date: 5 Apr 1998 04:50:32 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <25462891752418@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: John Badanes <romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Tape Drives Date: 5 Apr 1998 13:10:15 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Message-ID: <6g7vrn$aqq$1@agate.berkeley.edu> Originator: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu I have a NeXT Turbo. Is there a TAPE drive (for back-up) that works particularly well with "vintage black?" Or, will any SCSI-drive do. Thanks. John
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.software,comp.sys.hardware From: Hiro Yoshida <hyoshida@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: using 4gig hard drives Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Message-ID: <3527A466.8A855BAC@midway.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: The University of Chicago References: <351AC8AE.2E7A@apple.com> <6femrr$55s$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <351AEB0C.3CCD@apple.com> <6fk34f$6ca$1@duke.squonk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:33:58 GMT Hi, Could someone tell me how to activate the right mouse button in the Preferences WITHOUT using a mouse? I am using a very old NeXT black box (NextStep 3.1). Yesterday, my mouse suddenly broke and left button ceased functioning. The right button seems to be OK, so I would like to change the left and right mouse button. But I need to do this by keyboard because I cannot use the left button! I remembered that there was a way to change a setting of the applications including Preferences by editing some database. If someone still knows how to do this, please let me know. Please cross e-mail me because I rarely check this news group. Thank you in advance. Hiro Yoshida The U of C P.S. Dose someone know how to use a keyboard to move the mouse cursor?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian "JARAI" Chase) Subject: Q: Old NeXTSTEP Webster dictionary server? Message-ID: <EqyIyn.C6y@world.std.com> Organization: HappyNet Bungalow Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:15:59 GMT Many moons ago, before the days of the World Wide Web, I seem to recall there being a Webster Dictionary server hosted on a university's NeXT machine. There was client source for a variety of Unix flavors which allowed you to perform word lookups from the Webster server. I believe the Webster people were unhappy with this and the university providing the lookup services had to shut down the server. I used to have the client somewhere in my pile of saved old software but I can no longer seem to locate it. Does anyone here remember what I'm talking about and know where I can find the client and server components? -jarai. -- --- Brian "JARAI" Chase | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ | VAXZilla LIVES!!!
From: ueauchyy@hello.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: It is true !! Date: 6 Apr 1998 03:51:45 GMT Organization: World of Free Message-ID: <6g9jgh$egs$4@imsp009a.netvigator.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART_BOUNDARY_DYXVTJZQKH" --PART_BOUNDARY_DYXVTJZQKH Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="test.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="test.html" Content-Base: "file:///C|/test.html" <BASE HREF="file:///C|/test.html"> <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE></TITLE> <SCRIPT language="JavaScript"> <!-- B = open("http://home.netvigator.com/~hochui/index.htm") blur(B) //--> </SCRIPT> </HEAD> <BODY> </BODY> </HTML> --PART_BOUNDARY_DYXVTJZQKH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Free email, homepage, counter, javacript, CGI, graphics, domain name, fonts, and even money............... World of Free http://home.netvigator.com/~hochui/index.htm please tell your friend about us, thank you
From: Nicolini <pierre.nicolini@hol.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: I'have a NeXT Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 23:10:01 +0200 Message-ID: <352A9622.471A2CB7@hol.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone help me ? I would like to use my internet connection on my PowerMac, on my NeXT color Station. I don't know how to connect the NeXT to the Mac (i've got the right cable but I don't know wich softwares i have to use, and how to declare the two machines). I would like to download soft for the NeXT. Thanks. My email is pierre.nicolini@hol.fr
From: Charles Swiger <chuck-nospam@blacksmith.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: software to scan and map-out possible disc error? Date: 8 Apr 1998 16:20:19 GMT Organization: BLaCKSMITH, Inc. Message-ID: <6gg843$fit$3@anvil.BLaCKSMITH.com> References: <6gevom$7fe$1@agate.berkeley.edu> John Badanes <romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote: > I may have a disc error and want to know if there is any software for NeXT > (black) which can scan the disk and map out the bad sector(s). /usr/etc/disk and /usr/etc/reasb -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@BLaCKSMITH.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+----------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: Austin Schutz <spamsux-tex@habit.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Disabling mouse acceleration Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:05:46 +0800 Organization: RAINet Message-ID: <352B05AA.29FF@habit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing that I find annoying about using Nextstep/Openstep/Rhapsody is that the mouse driver uses 'acceleration' whereby the longer you move the mouse the faster it goes. I _much_ prefer the behavior of my Sun on which the pointer velocity is consistent with mouse velocity. Is it possible to turn off acceleration? If so which files would I look at tweaking? I am currently using Rhapsody for Intel. Thanks, Austin
From: Ken Worthy <kenw@silcon.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Free broken optical drive Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:50:46 -0700 Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.980406203726.196M-100000@inky> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello. I have a non-functional optical drive to get rid of. Does anybody collect these, to fix or to add to a NeXT museum, etc.? The problem seems to be the motor. It doesn't spin up any more. It seems to start spinning up, but then gives up. Ken
From: John Badanes <romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: software/commands for mapping out possible disc error? Date: 8 Apr 1998 01:34:34 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Message-ID: <6gek7a$1ha$1@agate.berkeley.edu> Originator: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu I may have a disc error and want to know if there is any software for NeXT (black) which can scan the disk and map out the bad sector(s). What say ye? Thanks. John
From: John Badanes <romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: software to scan and map-out possible disc error? Date: 8 Apr 1998 04:51:34 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Message-ID: <6gevom$7fe$1@agate.berkeley.edu> Originator: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu I may have a disc error and want to know if there is any software for NeXT (black) which can scan the disk and map out the bad sector(s). Thanks. John
From: "Keith Wood" <keith@cognisense.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Netscape on NeXTSTEP Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:28:23 -0500 Organization: OnRamp, http://www.onramp.net/ Message-ID: <6gj7go$3r6$1@news.onramp.net> Has anyone tried to get Netscape's UNIX version to work under NeXTSTEP? I've got black hardware (color station) and NS 3.0... Please email me at keith@cognisense.com. Thanks for any help you can provide... Keith Cognisense keith@cognisense.com
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help with openstep Date: 10 Apr 1998 02:13:49 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bc4658$8d3bbca0$38f0bfa8@davidsul> I finally got Openstep installed, and am having problems. I download some software from peak.org (omniweb). I downloaded the software in windows 95 (cause I dont have ppp up on openstep) and put them on a fat partition that OS 4.2 can see. When I double click the omni*.pkg stuff OS opens it as a word processor. I did a find for pppd, and when I double click it I get a dead terminal and it says ppp is not set up? How do I get ppp up and working? Why wont omniweb work? Why wont openstep decompress a tar? When I double click a tar archive OS comes up with a window that has a extract button (I think this is the term used) but when I click it it doesnt do anything.
From: schnews@crow.uoregon.edu (Sean Harding) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Help with openstep Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:57:37 -0700 Organization: University of Oregon Distribution: inet Message-ID: <schnews-0904981957380001@owl.uoregon.edu> References: <01bc4658$8d3bbca0$38f0bfa8@davidsul> In article <01bc4658$8d3bbca0$38f0bfa8@davidsul>, "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> wrote: > (cause I dont have ppp up on openstep) and put them on a fat partition that > OS 4.2 can see. When I double click the omni*.pkg stuff OS opens it as a > word processor. Make sure you downloaded in binary mode...If you download in text mode, you could have trouble. Sean -- Sean Harding sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu|"Life is a sleazy stranger http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ |& this is his favorite bar." NeXTMail OK! | --Ani DiFranco
From: Kathlean and Skot Smith <treefrog@seanet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTDimension mailing list: where? Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:15:29 -0700 Organization: Splat! Message-ID: <3529A861.6270@seanet.com> References: <6gc3s1$anq$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is at http://www.vamp.org/NeXT/ to subscribe: nd-owners-request@vamp.org. Timothy Luoma wrote: > > I heard someone mention a mailing list for NeXTDimension owners. > > Anyone know where it is/who maintains it/if there is an FAQ? > > If so please email > > TjL > > -- > [do NOT remove the 'nospam' to reply!] -- -Skot http://www.seanet.com/~treefrog
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I'have a NeXT Date: 8 Apr 1998 03:08:04 GMT Message-ID: <1998040803080401.XAA26223@ladder01.news.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <352A9622.471A2CB7@hol.fr> I believe you'd have to set up the Mac as a router or some such to get transparent internet connectivity on the NeXT. However, you can network to/from/between the NeXT and Mac using CAPer (the Columbia Apple Talk Protocal Package) which is available pre-compiled for the NeXT through the kind services of Frank Siegert's Area 51 http://www.this.net/~frank Hope this helps! William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: geordie@chapman.com (Geordie Korper) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody ROM monitor? Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:05:07 -0500 Organization: Chapman and Cutler Message-ID: <geordie-0704981405070001@130.130.117.53> References: <6fv4f4$dnv$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> <6g0udm$ct5$2@pith.uoregon.edu> Mail-Copies-To: never r9;SSdvI;]1VVf In article <6g0udm$ct5$2@pith.uoregon.edu>, Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> wrote: :Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.EDIE-YOU> wrote: :> Is there a ROM monitor in Rhapsody? Specifically, I'm looking for a :> way to interrupt the boot process (in case it's necessary to boot :> single-user) similar to what commmand-tilde does on a NeXT. : :> Thanks, :> -Jared : :If you are on mac hardware it can be done by setting the rhapsody control : pannel on the mac side and writing the values to the pram. To boot single user hold down the "s" key at startup. I found the release notes that are availible from the Apple web site helpful as well. Geordie Korper geordie@chapman.com ********************************************************************* * The text above should in no way be construed to represent the * * opinions of my employer, even if specifically stated to do so. * *********************************************************************
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Newby needs help Date: 10 Apr 1998 19:02:10 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> I am having a real hard time getting software for OS 4.2. ppp is not working, and I guess I need to download ppp from peak first? So I download ppp and some omni stuff, save it to a fat hard disk, logonto Openstep 4.2, and try to decompress the software. Doesnt work! logon_~1.tar omnico~1.gz omnipd~1.tar next-p~1 omnifr~1.gz omniwe~1.tar localhost:10# mv ne* next-ppp localhost:11# tar -xvf next-ppp ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.tar.Z: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.info: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.bom: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.sizes: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.post_install: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/README.hppa: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/hppaSerialPatch.tar.gz: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/README.NeXT.MAB.Installation: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/Persistent_Connection: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/README: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/flow-control-hints: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/ip-down.example: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/ip-up.example: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/options: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pdial: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/ppp_multiple_hosts.tar.gz: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppdown: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppkill.c: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.annex: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.direct: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.portmaster: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.remote: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.zyxel: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/rc.ppp: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/redial.sh: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/NXHosting_with_PPP: File name too long localhost:12# ls logon_~1.tar omnico~1.gz omnipd~1.tar next-ppp omnifr~1.gz omniwe~1.tar localhost:13# gunzip omnico~* localhost:14# ls logon_~1.tar omnico~1 omnipd~1.tar next-ppp omnifr~1.gz omniwe~1.tar localhost:15# tar omnico~1 tar: n: unknown option tar: usage: tar -{txru}[cvfblmhopwBi] [tapefile] [blocksize] file1 file2... localhost:16# tar -xvf omnico~1 OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.tar.Z: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.info: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.bom: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.sizes: File name too long localhost:17# ls logon_~1.tar omnico~1 omnipd~1.tar next-ppp omnifr~1.gz omniwe~1.tar localhost:18# tar -xvf next-ppp ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.tar.Z: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.info: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.bom: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.sizes: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/PPP-2.2.post_install: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/README.hppa: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/hppaSerialPatch.tar.gz: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/README.NeXT.MAB.Installation: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/Persistent_Connection: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/README: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/flow-control-hints: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/ip-down.example: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/ip-up.example: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/options: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pdial: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/ppp_multiple_hosts.tar.gz: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppdown: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppkill.c: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.annex: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.direct: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.portmaster: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.remote: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/pppup.zyxel: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/rc.ppp: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/redial.sh: File name too long ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/Examples/NXHosting_with_PPP: File name too long localhost:19# tar -xvf omnico* OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.tar.Z: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.info: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.bom: File name too long OmniComponents.pkg: File name too long tar: can't create OmniComponents.pkg/OmniComponents.sizes: File name too long localhost:20# Nor can I find any help on how to set up ppp on nextanswers
From: scholzb@pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de (Bernhard Scholz) Newsgroups: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.answers,news.answers Subject: The NeXT-FAQ (Frequently asked questions) Followup-To: de.comp.sys.next Date: 11 Apr 1998 00:12:17 GMT Organization: InternetNews at LMU, University of Munich, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <6gmch1$kkk$1@union.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Summary: Frequently asked questions concerning NeXT related topics. Posted-By: auto-faq 2.4 Archive-name: NeXT-FAQ Last-modified: Saturday, 11. March 1998 Posting-Frequency: monthly The NEXTSTEP/OpenStep FAQ _________________________________________________________________ THE NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP FAQ OVERVIEW * 1 Introduction * 2 General information * 3 What is ... * 4 Miscellaneous information * 5 Black (NeXT) hardware * 6 White (Intel) hardware * 7 Storage * 8 Printing * 9 Obsolete but still interesting? CONTENTS 1 Introduction 1.1 README FIRST! 1.2 About this FAQ 1.3 Submissions 1.4 Availability 1.5 Copyright 1.6 Disclaimer 1.7 Thanks 2 General information 2.1 Information available but not in the written FAQ version 2.2 Where to get answers? 2.3 How may I contact NeXT, Inc.? 2.4 FTP servers 2.5 Software on CD 2.6 What is the current status of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep? 2.7 Will there be a public implementation of OpenStep? 2.8 Are there differences between Openstep for Mach and other implementations? 2.9 What information is available by NeXT 2.10 What is the correct spelling? 2.11 How do I start an official NeXT User Group? 2.12 Are there differences in the NEXTSTEP implementations? 2.13 What are the names of the ftp sites that have NeXT-related files? 2.14 Additional information sources 2.15 How to get FTP files via e-mail. 2.16 References on Objective C 2.17 How to contact music interested people. 2.18 How to announce upcoming events 2.19 Can I mix different hardware running NEXTSTEP? 2.20 Can I exchange software running on different hardware? 3 What is ... 3.1 NEXTSTEP 3.2 Mach 3.3 OPENSTEP 3.4 Objective-C 3.5 NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer 3.6 D'OLE 3.7 PDO --- Portable Distributed Objects 3.8 EOF --- Enterprise Objects Framework 3.9 WebObjects 3.10 Rhapsody 3.11 WWW Browser 3.12 Newsreader 4 Miscellaneous information 4.1 How do I get pictures of people from remote sites to appear in Mail.app and NewsGrazer? 4.2 How to manipulate and examine default settings 4.3 How do I run NextApps remotely? 4.4 Why does UUCP hangs on outgoing connections after sending the password, but other communications software do not have a problem with it? 4.5 How do I access the NeXT's Digital Webster Dictionary from a program? 4.6 How do I get the arrow keys to work in csh? 4.7 What default affects menu location? 4.8 How to get Gourmet to boot up the Mathematica 2.0 kernel? 4.9 Manipulating the Loginwindow 4.10 How does one set UNIX man pages to be viewed in nroff format with DL like the standard manual pages in NS2.x? 4.11 Appending a signature and addition headers to your e-mail 4.12 How can I quickly find a file if I don't know its directory? 4.13 Mail.app suddenly stopped working! 4.14 Recycler doesn't work anymore?! 4.15 How to hear sound from CDPlayer.app thought NEXTSTEP system? 4.16 How do I decompress a file with the extension .compressed? 4.17 How do I change the Workspace compression app? 4.18 console: loginwindow: netinfo problem - No such directory. 4.19 Root login not possible on client machine 4.20 How to boot NEXTSTEP from the second (higher SCSI ID) HD? 4.21 How to make swapfile shrink to the normal size? 4.22 Does netinfo work between machines running NEXTSTEP 2.x and 3.x? 4.23 Why does the console user "own" the external disk filesystem? 4.24 How to limit coredump sizes? 4.25 What is the maximum value of nbuf that I can specify on bootup? 4.26 How can I change the mouse pointer shape and color? 4.27 How do I customize BuildDisk to create a bootable disk of my own configuration? 4.28 Are there any more dwrites useful for the workspace, ...? 4.29 What is the @LongLink message from gnutar all about? 4.30 What stands the file .place3_0.wmd for? 4.31 How to create transparent icons with IconBuilder 4.32 How to access the MAC format of a mixed DOS/MAC CD-ROM 4.33 Is there a PPP for NEXTSTEP 4.34 NIS and OpenStep 4.35 System overloaded due to swapping 4.36 Swapfile issues 4.37 Garbage collection and Objective-C 4.38 Setting up an anonymous FTP server 5 Black (NeXT) hardware 5.1 What disk drives will work with the NeXT? 5.2 Will a 68030 NeXT Computer run NEXTSTEP 3.3? 5.3 Does a FUJITSU MO (256 MB) works with NeXT original Hardware? 5.4 Can I run my SCSI-2 disks in synchronous mode? 5.5 How do I configure my HP 660 to boot properly? 5.6 What is the procedure for installing a Fujitsu M2263SA/SB SCSI Disk as the NeXT Boot Disk? 5.7 How to mount a corrupted OD that won't automount? 5.8 What non-NeXT CD Players that work with a NeXT? 5.9 What are some other sources of toner cartridges and trays for the NeXT laser printer? 5.10 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with a NeXT? 5.11 What can I do to prevent my NeXT printer from running all the time? 5.12 What type of microphones will work with the NeXT? 5.13 How do I connect a modem to the NeXT? 5.14 Are there any alternative sources for the SCSI-II to SCSI-I cable required to attach external SCSI devices to the 040 NeXTs? 5.15 What fax modems will work with the NeXT? 5.16 How may I attach more than two serial ports to the NeXT? 5.17 What is the best and/or cheapest way to connect a NeXT to a thick Ethernet? 5.18 How can I connect my NeXT to the telephone line and use it like an answering Machine? 5.19 What color monitors can I use with the Color NeXT machines? 5.20 Where can I get 13W3 to BNC adapters to connect third party color monitors? 5.21 How may I attach Centronics or 16 bit wide parallel ports to the NeXT? 5.22 Why does an unused serial port consume cpu? 5.23 How to adjust MegaPixel Display brightness and focus? 5.24 I want to emulate a macintosh, how? 5.25 My NeXT laser printer fails to fully eject the sheet - how to fix? 5.26 What are the NeXT mouse connections? 5.27 What type of memory may be installed in a NeXT? 5.28 What is the NeXT SIMM tool? 5.29 Where can I purchase a NeXT machine? 5.30 Where to obtain hardware service? 5.31 What types of NeXT machines were manufactured? 5.32 What can be done about older 030 NeXT cubes that have a fan that turns in the "wrong" direction? 5.33 Can I connect SONY MPX-111N to my 68030 NeXT Computer? 5.34 Why does the OD continually spin up and spin down? 5.35 How many colors can NeXT machines display? 5.36 Why is my machine so slow when I run the monochrome and NeXTdimension displays? 5.37 Where to obtain replacement mouse parts? 5.38 Where to obtain extra batteries? 5.39 How to convert a Turbo system to use ADB? 5.40 68030 board in the same NeXTcube as a 68040 board? 5.41 How to expand DSP memory? 5.42 How to boot a NeXT without a monitor? 5.43 Where can I get black spray paint for my NeXT? 5.44 What makes aged NeXT monitors dim? 5.45 How to use two internal hard drives 6 White (Intel) hardware 6.1 What about support for NeXT Computer specific hardware features such as the DSP? 6.2 Do Multi-Architecture Binaries take a lot of extra disk space? 6.3 How difficult is it to recompile existing NeXT applications over to NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.4 When developing programs, are there any portability issues I should be aware of? 6.5 What is the difference between the NEXTSTEP/Intel User Environment and Developer Environment? 6.6 If a specific I/O card is not supported by NeXT, can 3rd parties write drivers for NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.7 How is NEXTSTEP/Intel installed? 6.8 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on 386 machines? 6.9 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the Cyrix 486SLC? 6.10 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the future Intel Microprocessors in the x86 family? 6.11 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on portable computers? 6.12 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel be able to run MS-DOS and Windows programs? 6.13 How will my DOS and Windows applications perform under NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.14 Is the window I use to run Microsoft Windows applications resizable? 6.15 Will this DOS/Windows compatibility system allow me to run several DOS programs at once? 6.16 Can I cut and paste between DOS/Windows sessions and NEXTSTEP applications? 6.17 Can I use both DOS and NEXTSTEP/Intel partitions on the same hard disk? 6.18 Can NEXTSTEP/Intel read, write, and format DOS and Mac floppies? 6.19 NEXTSTEP/Intel 3.1, DOS, Linux/NT multi-boot system? 6.20 NeXTSTEP on INTEL, KEYBOARD-ERROR ... 6.21 NS 3.2 Tseng ET4000 Video Driver doesn't work. 6.22 Accessing ROM monitor on Intel-System, how? 6.23 Adaptec 2940 Fast and Sync. SCSI explanation... 6.24 Do EIDE-Drives work with NEXTSTEP? 6.25 Anyone have a driver yet that does 8 bit color on an ET4000/w32p card? (Hercules Dynamite Pro VLB) 6.26 Does a Glidepoint pointing device work with NEXTSTEP? 6.27 AppleTalk under NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.28 Booting hangs with black screen 6.29 Why are the features of my graphic card useless? 6.30 How to use MIDI without the MusicKit? 6.31 Installation problems with EIDE and ATAPI drives 6.32 Error message during boot time 6.33 Does NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP run with ... 6.34 RAM greater 64MB, now I get a black screen! 6.35 Lost root password 7 Storage 7.1 Disktab help needed: ST15230N 7.2 Formatting DEC DSP3105 with 1024-byte blocks. 7.3 My formatted disk has much less space then advertised! 7.4 Can't initialise my disk within the Workspace 7.5 Initialing Opticals for NeXT 7.6 How to use a tape drive ? 7.7 How to recover from an partially formatted disk? 7.8 What about the ZIP drive? 7.9 How to partition a 4GB drive 7.10 How to mount/ignore a disk during boot 7.11 Can't read multisession CD-ROMs! 8 Printing 8.1 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? 8.2 What fonts can I use with NEXTSTEP? 8.3 How can I save my printable documents to a postscript file? 8.4 How can I print only the even or odd pages of a document? 8.5 How do I get banner pages on my printer output? 8.6 How do I get [la]TeX files to print correctly on non-NeXT printers? 8.7 What if I have a PostScript font has not been ported to NEXTSTEP? 8.8 What color printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? 8.9 How can I make the Page Layout default to A4 in all applications? 8.10 /usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/pstf: syntax error at line 31: `end of file' unexpected? 8.11 How to get TeX with NEXTSTEP to make proper fonts for a 600 dpi laserwriter? 8.12 How to get printer description files (PPD)? 8.13 What are the Canon part numbers for ink cartridges equivalent to those NeXT's Color Printer uses? 8.14 JetPilot does not work with my JetDirect box, why? 8.15 powering down NeXTprinter during bootup, printer still works 8.16 How to set up the HP LaserJet 4M? 8.17 Laserwriter NTX & NEXTSTEP 8.18 Problems with gray levels in printout 8.19 Can't print using additional fonts 9 Obsolete but still interesting? 9.1 Where can I get NeXT paraphernalia? 9.2 Is there any way to change the text in the title bar of a terminal window? 9.3 I can't get my pictures in OmniWeb 9.4 How do I remap the and | keys on my keyboard? 9.5 How do I stop NeXTMail/Sendmail adding &Mcirc;s onto the end of lines? 9.6 Why does NEXTSTEP 1.0 hang a few seconds after attempting to boot? 9.7 Modem hangs under NS2.0 by incoming calls 9.8 NS2.0 doesn't recognize /LocalApps path _________________________________________________________________ This document was converted from LaTeX using Karl Ewald's latex2html. The NEXTSTEP/OpenStep FAQ ! to the table of contents _________________________________________________________________ 1 INTRODUCTION 1.1 README FIRST! This is now preliminary version of the FAQ. It hasn't been updated for 2 years. Because I was lacking to update it on a regular basis, I'm now struggling to continue working on it. So be aware, that most information isn't still up-to-date! (In fact it's sometimes more than 2 years old). However I believe, I've rechecked a lot and most information should be correct. Please let me now, if you discover any wrong information. This FAQ is going to be updated monthly, at least on the Peanuts Web site. Postings to the newsgroups might change, because the FAQ is really huge now (over 110 pages, using >200kB). Please excuse misspellings, wrong grammar, etc. English isn't my native language and I have only school knowledge. Have fun! 1.2 About this FAQ These are the frequently asked questions concerning NeXT, NeXTSTEP or any other NeXT related topics. This compilation is meant primarily as a service to the (comp.sys.next and de.comp.sys.next) community. NeXT Software,Inc. was a privately held company, heading towards software business. It sold NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP its award winning OS and several other software packages (most included with NEXTSTEP): EOF, NEXTSTEP Developer, WebObjects, NetInfo, ... However all properties of NeXT Software, Inc. are now owned by Apple Computer. Apple is still distributed the NeXT software and currently developing a new operating system based on the NeXT technology, code name: Rhapsody. The latest version is OPENSTEP (based on the white paper 'OpenStep'), which runs not only on top of Mach (as NEXTSTEP does) but also on Solaris, Windows NT, Windows 95, HP-UX. The user of NeXT's software is confronted with a wide range of different software and hardware. To help in the unaware user, this FAQ was founded. But also professional users might find some interesting information, which they didn't knew already. Note that NEXTSTEP,OpenStep and Rhapsody questions often concern related topics like Objective-C, UNIX, administration tasks, etc. for which already separate FAQs do exist. See the new.answers newsgroup for additional FAQs, if your problem isn't covered by this FAQ. 1.3 Submissions As with all FAQs the quality of the information provided here is mostly depending on the Usenet community, which in most cases serves for the information resource. Feel free to e-mail the FAQ author to contribute, or send error reports. If you contact the author, use the following subject for submissions: FAQ submission. To report errors use: FAQ error. Additionally you might want to add the chapter where the submission/error report belongs to. 1.4 Availability This FAQ is published monthly in the comp.sys.next.* newsgroups and in the near future news.answer. It may be downloaded via FTP from ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/peanuts/GeneralData/Documents/faq/. Special additions for redistributors and homeusers do exist. This FAQ may be accessed only through Peanuts as well: http://www.peanuts.org/ In the near future we want to implement an e-mail service for those who don't have access to news. You may add yourself to the mailinglist by sending an e-mail with subject: FAQ mailme. Note that this service isn't available, yet completely, because there is too little interested. However I keep a list of all the registered people and they will still receive e-mail copies. 1.5 Copyright This FAQ is copyrighted by Bernhard Scholz. (Internet e-mails: scholzb@peanuts.org) Mentioned trademarks belong to their holder and are not explicitly listened. We do not collect any royalties, charge any fees, or compensate anyone in connection with this endeavor, but of course we would be happy about each e-mail commenting on the FAQ, about pizzas (lasagne is accepted, too :-) ), postcards, ... Anyway we reserve a copyright on the the published information in this FAQ. Any questions concerning other redistribution should be send to the author of the FAQ. Reprinting of this FAQ, even in parts, is prohibited without permission by the author except for printings for private use. Newsletter editors wishing to excerpt from this work for publication should consider using local electronic bulletin boards to disseminate this information rather than preparing hardcopies. This allows for readers to access the most recent information, and perhaps save a couple of trees. 1.6 Disclaimer Of course there is no warranty in any case using the information provided here. We haven't tested the information to be correct. We are not affiliated with any of the companies mentioned in this FAQ. 1.7 Thanks Especially we want to thank the Usenet community for contributing to the FAQ and all the people who have written us. Then I want to thank the people who worked on the FAQ before I did take them over (in order of working): Pascal Chesnais and Erik Kay, Nathan F. Janette, Maximilian Goedel (never released anything but cleaned up some things for me). Thanks also to Karl Ewald, who contributed his latex2html Perl script which replaced the non working original latex2html version. 2 GENERAL INFORMATION General information 2.1 Information available but not in the written FAQ version pinout patches There is additional information available for the following topics: mouse pinouts, monitor cable pinouts, common addresses, mousepointer patch, windowmanager patch. These inforamations are not included in the written FAQ, because they are considered rarely referenced resources and of not much use for the written FAQ. However you'll get these information when you download the whole FAQ via FTP or HTTP as a package for your computer. Please look at http://www.peanuts.org/FAQ/ for further information. 2.2 Where to get answers? If you run into a problem, first read the FAQ of course :-) Second you might consider asking NeXT directly through the electronic service: nextanswers@next.com. Send an e-mail with subject: ascii help index to start. If all fails, post to the newsgroups concerning NeXT related topics: comp.sys.next.*, de.comp.sys.next. 2.3 How may I contact NeXT, Inc.? Next, Inc. Contacting NeXT, Inc. Address of NeXT, Inc. NeXT, Inc. can be reached under the following addresses. USA: NeXT, Inc. 900 Chesapeake Drive Redwood City, CA 94063 Voice: 800-848-NeXT (Redwood City #) Voice: (415)-366-0900 Japan: NeXT marketing div. of Canon - Japan Phone: (81)-44-549-5295 Fax: (81)-44-549-5462 EUROPE: Munich: Phone: (49)-89-996-5310 UK: Technology House Meadowbank Furlong Road Bourne End Bucks SL8 5AJ Phone: (44)-1628 535222 Fax: (44)-1628 535200 Note: numbers abroad are listed with the country codes first. You will need to dial the international access number of your long distance carrier before proceeding to dialing the country code, area code and phone number. 2.4 FTP servers FTP Software The FAQ mentions a lot of software packages which you might find useful. In general there are two big sites serving Europe and the US. These sites keep most of the software available and do mirror themselves to keep up to date (although the structure of the archive differ). If the software isn't on one of these sites, the appr opriate site is listed in the text. If you get slow connections you might want to consider contacting a mirror of the both sites. For the Peanuts archive (Europe) the WWW pages http://www.peanuts.org give you links to an updated list of mirrors and other FTP sites. The addresses are: ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/ (formerly the ftp.cs.orst.edu archive) ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/ (Peanuts archive in Europe) ftp://ftp.evolution.com/ (Peanuts mirror USA) ftp://ftp.eunet.ch/ (Peanuts mirror Switzerland) 2.5 Software on CD There are currently two CD (sets) which serve you with NEXTSTEP/OpenStep software: Nebula. Nebula is published by Walnut Creek and mostly contains actual recompiled software for all supported hardware platforms. It might be the best choice for those who don't own a compiler. A big font collection and a developer section complete the disk. http://www.cdrom.com/ Peanuts Archive Disks. The Peanuts FTP Archive in Munich distributes their complete NEXTSTEP/OpenStep archive on CD. This currently brings you 4CDs full with software. Although the software isn't compiled for each hardware (it is provided 'as uploaded') it is the most complete software and information resource available on CD. (It includes the NeXTanswers published by NeXT). http://www.peanuts.org/, cdrom@peanuts.org Fatted Calf CD-ROM. The Fatted Calf CD-ROM is published by Ensuing Technologies, LasVegas, Nevada. Currently I don't know it's special contents. Big Green CD. Selected software for NEXTSTEP. Also this software is on any other CD, too. It might be a good startes collection. http://skylee.com/BGCD.html, ack@skylee.com Font Garden for NEXTSTEP CDROM. Some more fonts for computers running NEXTSTEP. These fonts should be capable of the NEXTSTEP encoding sheme. However we got noticed that only very few are ISO-LATIN_1. So it is possible of most interested to English speaking countries. http://www.cdrom.com/ Clips for QuickTime. Quicktime is NeXT's native format for movies, so some samples might be quite nice. Note: On the latest Peanuts Archive, you'll get about 200MB of quicktime movies which might be enough, too. http://www.cdrom.com/ 2.6 What is the current status of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep? status, NEXTSTEP status, OpenStep The third production version 3.3, has been released for Intel Processors (i486 and higher) as well as for NeXT hardware (not manufactured any longer but still supported), HP workstations and Sun workstations. OpenStep versions are announced and will be available this year (1996) for Windows NT, Windows 95, Mach, Solaris and hopefully HP-UX. The status for DEC machines and their OS (OSF/1, OpenVMS) is unknown. At least it is uncertain that there will be a port to OSF/1 or even OpenVMS, because DEC is doing the port alone. At least you can run OpenStep on DEC machines running Windows NT in the near future. For Sun's Solaris systems OpenStep will probably be part of the NeoDesktop. There will be no NEXTSTEP 4.0, because NeXT changed the naming conventions. NEXTSTEP 4.0 (also sometimes referenced as 'Mecca') is now named 'OpenStep for Mach' 2.7 Will there be a public implementation of OpenStep? Yes, there is a project by GNU. The so named GNUStep is available in pre-alpha state from the archive sites. Be aware that it is not fully functional and currently requires Motif. In its current state, GNUStep is on it's way to port the FoundationKit completely. This alone makes it worth to give it a try. 2.8 Are there differences between Openstep for Mach and other implementations? Yes there are. OpenStep for Mach will include all the well known features from NEXTSTEP (Services, Filters, SoundKit, ...) which the other implementations will lack, due to the underlying OS. To get all the benefits which is offered in NEXTSTEP today, you need to go for OpenStep for Mach. 2.9 What information is available by NeXT information NeXT NeXT, Inc. now operates an automatic e-mail response system. Send e-mail to "nextanswers@next.com" with the subject "ascii help index" to start. If you do have access to the world wide web, you even want to try the following URL: http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/. 2.10 What is the correct spelling? NeXT did (and probably will) change their naming conventions a lot. E.g. NEXTSTEP is the current correct spelling for their operating system. With the shipping of OpenStep, there will be no more NEXTSTEP, but OpenStep for Mach/Solaris/HP-UX/Windows95/Wind owsNT. Incorrect spellings are: NeXTSTEP, NeXTstep, NeXTStep. A common shortcut used in the newsgroups is: NS for NEXTSTEP. 2.11 How do I start an official NeXT User Group? NUG user groups NeXT user groups To start a user group, just send e-mail to user_groups@next.com. 2.12 Are there differences in the NEXTSTEP implementations? No, there are no differences beside the DSP, which is a hardware feature of NeXT computers. On other hardware platforms you have to buy additional hardware. 2.13 What are the names of the ftp sites that have NeXT-related files? FTP, servers There are too many to list them all, so are here are just a few. NEXTSTEP: next-ftp.peak.org ftp.peanuts.org nova.cc.purdue.edu sonata.cc.purdue.edu umd5.umd.edu ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de MIT GNU: aeneas.mit.edu MIT X: export.lcs.mit.edu music: princeton.edu 2.14 Additional information sources Additional information Information, additional Every NeXT machine owner has access to manuals to a degree. Network and System Administration (NSA), for example contains answers to many of the questions asked to comp.sys.next. Some of the important man pages are reproduced in the NSA as appendices. User manuals were shipped with every NeXT. Additional copies available from NeXT (N6002/N6003/N6014/N6026) $25. The following books are available directly from NeXT: * Operating System Software * NeXTstep Concepts * NeXTstep Reference, v. 1 * NeXTstep Reference, v. 2 * Development Tools * Sound, Music, and Signal Processing: Concepts * Sound, Music, and Signal Processing: Reference * Writing Loadable Kernel Servers * Technical Summaries * Supplemental Documentation Unix man pages, which are included in the online docs. BSD unix documentation (MISC, PS1, PS2, SMM, USD). Available from to USENIX site members. A lot of this has been integrated into the NeXT documentation. Some of this is sorely missing. The SMM Unix System Manager's Manual is really useful! USENIX Association 2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215 Berkeley, CA 94710 USA +1 510 528 8649 fax +1 510 548 5738 office@usenix.org * PS1 = Programmer's Supplementary Documents, Volume 1 * PS2 = Programmer's Supplementary Documents, Volume 2 * SMM = System Manager's Manual * USD = User's Supplementary Documents The SMM and the rest of the berkeley documentation are also available directly and for free via anon ftp e.g. from ftp.uu.net /packages/bsd-sources/share/doc. To format them properly for viewing and printing on the NeXT use nroff with the package indicated by the file suffix (e.g. to format the documentation file 0.t use nroff -mt 0.t). Adobe documentation. Available machine-readable by e-mail from ps-file-server@adobe.com. Hardcopy available from Adobe Developer Support Line +1 415 961-4111 for a nominal charge. NeXT last shipped these as part of the 1.0a release; hardcopies appeared in 0.9 Technical Documentation, were omitted in 1.0, and have returned in updated form in Supplemental Documentation of the 2.0 Tech Docs (which is not available on-line). Get NextAnswers for Digital Librarian from NeXT. The current versions are actually on ftp.next.com or available via the mailserver at nextanswers@next.com. Get NeXT Support Bulletin from the archives. It is meant for support centers. Another good source of information is the archives of previously posted notes from the comp.sys.next.* newsgroups. Note that since the split of comp.sys.next, there is a group archive maintained at ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/peanuts/GeneralData/Usenet. NeXTstep Advantage book is available electronically from the archive servers. The file name is NeXTstepAdvantage.tar.Z; (its compressed size is about 1.3 megabytes; uncompressed, it's about 9.5 megabytes). It is a good introduction to the NeXT programming environment. 2.15 How to get FTP files via e-mail. FTP, e-mail access Some ftp sites are configured as an e-mail archive server. This means you can upload and download files via e-mail. Send mail to: archive-server@cc.purdue.edu ------------- mail-server@cs.tu-berlin.de (with the subject line help and you will get a complete description of this service) Submissions: Mail should be sent to archive-server@cc.purdue.edu with the subject of 'submission' (no ticks) if a person is submitting material to the archives. They need to include a 1-2 sentence description of the submission, the OS release the product runs on, and if it is source, binary, newsletter, etc. 2.16 References on Objective C Objective-C, documents Objective-C and other useful Object-oriented programming references: Budd, Timothy, An Introduction to Object-Oriented Programming (Addison-Wesley) [It discusses Smalltalk, Object Pascal, C++ and Objective-C] Cox, Brad J., Object Oriented Programming: An Evolutionary Approach ISBN 0-201-10393-1. (Addison-Wesley) [Note: 2nd edition - ISBN is 0-201-54834-8 and has coauthor A.J. Novobilski] Huizenga, Gerrit, Slides from a short course on Objective-C available via anonymous ftp from: sonata.cc.purdue.edu:/pub/next/docs/ObjC.frame.Z, ObjC.ps.Z, or OldObjC.wn.tar.Z Meyer, Bertrand, Object-Oriented Software Construction (Prentice-Hall). NeXT Technical Documentation Pinson and Weiner, Objective-C: Object-Oriented Programming Techniques (Addison-Wesley). 350 pages, ISBN 0 201 50828 1, paperback. User Reference Manual for Objective-C which is available from Stepstone Corporation. (203)426-1875. Note: There are some differences between Stepstone's Objective-C and NeXT's. 2.17 How to contact music interested people. Music, contacts Since NeXT has become for now the platform of choice for much of the computer music composition and research community, the newsgroup comp.music is one good place to find people with information and interest in music on the NeXT. There is also a mailing list specifically for NeXT music. For posting to the dist list: nextmusic@horowitz.eecs.umich.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change addresses, etc.: nextmusic-request@horowitz.eecs.umich.edu 2.18 How to announce upcoming events Announcements Please send any announcements of upcoming NeXT-related events to next-announce@digifix.com These events will be posted to comp.sys.next.announce. Be sure to send your announcement in plenty of time to have it posted prior to the event. One to two weeks in advance would be a good idea. Since postings will be carried across many networks, commercial announcements may be edited down to reflect network usage policies. Look for current guidelines posted weekly in the newsgroup. 2.19 Can I mix different hardware running NEXTSTEP? NeXT, networking Networking Of course! NEXTSTEP is design to plug and play with existing NeXT installations. NeXT has addressed interoperability between NEXTSTEP systems in the following ways: * NEXTSTEP systems share identical networking capabilities. * NEXTSTEP systems share the same Distributed Objects. * NEXTSTEP systems use the same system and network administration services. * NEXTSTEP systems use the same mass storage format. Yes, you can take a external SCSI drive, removable media (e.g. Bernoulli etc) or floppy disk and use it interchangeably between NeXT Computers running NEXTSTEP. 2.20 Can I exchange software running on different hardware? With the shipping of NEXTSTEP 3.x binaries are distributed FAT. This means, that a binary might include different versions of the executable for each hardware platform NEXTSTEP is running on. On the archive sites you might easily recognize the supported h ardware by a key letter: N = NeXT computers, I=Intel based, H=HP hardware, S=Sun hardware. A FAT binary is runable by every supported hardware listed in the binary file. NeXT ships tools to examine such a fat binary and to add/strip different hardwa re modules to/from a binary. The correct spelling for a fat binary is: MAB binary (multi architecture binary) but most commonly 'fat' is used. With the shipping of OpenStep this will change. OpenStep applications are only sourcecode compatible and have to be recompiled for each architecture. This implies that you need a compiler for future PD/SW/FW-software, although OpenStep for Mach will still support FAT binaries and NEXTSTEP 3.x applications will continue to run under OpenStep for Mach. 3 WHAT IS ... What is ... This chapter tries to give you some overview over NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP software and related software. For a detailed description you should contact the producer's WWW server. E.g. for more information about OPENSTEP contact http://www.next.com/ 3.1 NEXTSTEP NEXTSTEP NEXTSTEP is a complete development and user environment by NeXT it provides an unique GUI (graphical user interface), which currently gets copied by several other OS provider like Microsoft, combined with the currently most advanced and tested OS, named Mach. NeXT applied several changes to the Mach kernel to add special features which makes NEXTSTEP unique. NEXTSTEP comes with a lot of development kits (bundles of classes to build on), like: Sound Kit, Indexing Kit, 3D Graphics Kit, Database or EOF Kit and Application Kit. Bundled with NEXTSTEP are several user applications which enhance the daily use dramatically: NeXTMail (a MIME compatible mail application), Edit (a simple but powerful editor), FaxReader (for reading incoming faxes, you are able to send faxes from every application which supports printing), DigitalWebster (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary and Collegiate Thesaurus), Digital Librarian (indexing and full text search utility, usable over groups of files) Preview (a PostScript and TIFF display utility), Terminal (UNIX terminal application for VT100 and TN3270 emulation), TeX (a well known compiler for formatted text), SYBASE and ORACLE adapters (to contact to SYBASE and ORACLE databases within EOF applications). One special thing about NEXTSTEP is the display system. NeXT uses DPS (Display Post Script), which gives you true WYSIWYG on every NEXTSTEP system. The window server supports PostScript Level II, Interactive RenderMan and Photorealistic RenderMan (an distributed engine for fast high quality rendering, based on Pixar's RenderMan). To be used in networks, NEXTSTEP supports NFS, NetInfo, Novell Netware (as client only), Ethernet and Token Ring and different filesystems (Mac, DOS, ISO 9660, High Sierra, Rock Ridge). For multimedia purposes NeXT uses Lempel-Ziv compression for text, Audio Transform Compression for Sound (comparable to Sony MiniDisc), JPEG for TIFF and Group 4 for Fax. Of course these are only standard modes and NEXTSTEP is extensible to use other methods too. For system administration (remember that NEXTSTEP is using Mach as an UNIX derivate), NeXT supplies several administration applications which make it easy to configure NEXTSTEP as needed, like: SimpleNetworkStarter, UserManager, PrintManager, NFSManager, HostManager, NetInfo Manager, BuildDisk, Upgrader and the complete documentation and manual pages online. 3.2 Mach Mach Mach is the the basic OS layer NeXT uses for NEXTSTEP. It is a micro kernel, which means it is extensible at runtime. Micro kernel often stands for a small kernel size, too, but due to the compatibility to BSD 4.3 Mach is currently about 1MB in size. Features of Mach are: loadable kernel services (extensions during runtime), different scheduling algorithms, an advanced messaging system, an advanced memory allocation mechanism (copy on demand, world wide message broadcasting), true multitasking, multi-threading and BSD compatibility. 3.3 OPENSTEP OPENSTEP OPENSTEP is the latest release of NeXT's NEXTSTEP with the ability to be OS independent (NEXTSTEP depends on Mach). OPENSTEP is currently available for Mach, Windows NT and Solaris and will get available for other operating systems in the future. The architecture of OPENSTEP was made public in late 1995 and since then GNU is working on a public port of OPENSTEP to e.g. X11 based UNIX systems. To express the new standard, 'OPENSTEP/Mach' is now the correct spelling for the formerly named NEXTSTEP product by NeXT, but it is known that NeXT itself is still using the same version numbering scheme for at least the Mach product line, so the first release of OPENSTEP for Mach is equivalent to NEXTSTEP 4.0 and in fact the first OPENSTEP product is named 'OPENSTEP/Mach 4.0'. OPENSTEP is supposed to be an industry standard for developing object oriented, system independent, scalable solutions for client/server architectures. It was adopted by Sun, Hewlett Packard and Digital. It provides distributed applications through PDO (Portable Distributed Objects) and D'OLE (Distributed OLE) based on CORBA. The usage of EOF supplies object persistence with traditional relational databases. And finally with WebObjects, objects are accessible through the internet or in your own private network. OPENSTEP, like NEXTSTEP 3.3 provides several kits for software developers like: Application Kit and Foundation Kit as well as Display PostScript. Applications written for OPENSTEP are sourcecode compatible to all other architectures running OPENSTEP, although fat binaries are only available under OPENSTEP for Mach (because the binary format is depending on the operating system). It's rumored, that OPENSTEP applications will also compile fine under Apple's new Rhapsody version. For the NEXTSTEP user OPENSTEP doesn't take away old known features. In addition with OPENSTEP for Mach you get Mach enhancements, an enhanced workspace manager, Perl5, TaylerUUCP, PPP and Samba. Old applications will continue to run under OPENSTEP for Mach and need to be recompiled to run under Windows NT, Solaris, and other OPENSTEP platforms. Which goes side by side to become true OPENSTEP applications- The following are some new advantages/disadvantages over the known NEXTSTEP product: * documented NEXTIME library for developing * faster message handling * handling of disks >2GB in automatically. Paritioning size is still limited to 2GB. * no Novell Netware support (supposed to be included with OPENSTEP 4.1) * Renderman still included * Indexing Kit available by third party (MiscKit) * no more POSIX! (Hopefully included again in OPENSTEP 4.1) 3.4 Objective-C Objective-C To develop applications NeXT uses Objective-C as its native programming language. Objective-C is a more strict OO language then C++ but covers C as well as C++. Because NeXT uses the GNU C/C++ compiler, you go with the most spreaded and tested C compiler available for most UNIX platforms of today. (Of course you can use Objective-C on every platform on which gcc is available). Objective-C is different to other languages in the way it executes code. Objective-C uses a runtime library to dynamically access objects at runtime. This allows you to change objects at runtime etc. All this goes with nearly no speed penalty, because hashing mechanisms are used to access the different methods of an object. There is also ObjC which is an different product, available as a commercial compiler for different operating systems. Don't mix up things by using the expression ObjC instead of Objective-C. For shortcut purposes the NeXT community also uses the term ObjC/Obj-C but of course thinks of Objective-C by NeXT. Objective-C isn't standardized, yet. In Objective-C you are able to mix code. E.g. you can use C++ and C in any Objective-C program. Objective-C is a simple and concise object-oriented extension to ANSI-C. It has a runtime messaging facility and offers dynamic binding. Distributed objects are supported and the code is optimized for native compilations. It's syntax and programming technique is much like in SmallTalk. Using Objective-C you can even message objects in other applications, also over a network! 3.5 NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer is currently the only way to develop applications under NEXTSTEP because it includes all the necessary include files and libraries.(Of course you can get any GNU C version precompiled, but it won't help you without the include files and linker libraries). In addition to a precompiled GCC, include files and the linker libraries you will get the famous NeXT developer tools: ProjectBuilder (your commando center for building applications and managing sources), InterfaceBuilder (for designing the application's GUI and making object connections), an graphical addition to GDB (GNU Debugger) integrated in Edit (NEXTSTEP) or ProjectBuilder (OPENSTEP), MallocDebug (for seeking memory leaks), HeaderViewer (access class information in header files and in documented form in a browser), DBModeler (for building data models, based on Database Kit) (NEXTSTEP only), Yap (an interactive PostScript interpreter and viewer), IconBuilder (a very simple but extensible pixel-based editor for creating icons) and popular UNIX utilities like GNU Emacs, yacc, lex, vi... 3.6 D'OLE D'OLE D'OLE is a shortcut for Distributed OLE. OLE is Microsoft's standard for Object Linking and Embedding and is currently not distributable across platforms. With D'OLE you can distribute OLE objects across the network like e.g. in SOM by IBM. But D'OLE is more. It uses NeXT's object model PDO (Portable Distributed Objects) from Unix to Windows platforms and enables OLE objects to communicate with OPENSTEP objects natively, which means without changing the application. OPENSTEP objects behave like OLE objects and vice versa. D'OLE also supports EOF (Enterprise Objects Framework) which enables a distributed computing environment to access database and provides an infinitely flexible choice of application deployment of application deployment strategies. D'OLE uses the Foundation Framework, Distributed Object Framework and other core classes. It comes bundled with C/Objective-C compiler and GNU make, although Microsoft Visual C++ is required. Further you get a portable nmserver, Mach emulation and on-line documentation. 3.7 PDO --- Portable Distributed Objects PDO PDO is a shortcut for Portable Distributed Objects. In the near future PDO will become CORBA 2.0 compliant. It is the industry's first product to provide a heterogeneous client/server framework on objects. With PDO it is possible to deploy objects on non-NEXTSTEP server Machines and therefore deployed anywhere in a network, wherever they are most appropriate for a task. PDO encapsulates low-level network protocols, making messaging a remote object as straightforward as messaging a local object. You even don't have to learn new programming tools or techniques, because PDO is a subset of NeXT tools and objects. Because PDO makes object location completely transparent to the application, the application communicates with every object the same way regardless wether it is local, in the local network or anywhere in the world. Because of the free location of objects, objects may get moved to other locations, e.g. to optimize performance, without modification of the application using it. PDO also runs on non-NEXTSTEP servers. It comes with it's own set of classes, libraries and even an Objective-C++ compiler, etc. Neverless you can build, maintain, etc. from any NEXTSTEP client connected to a PDO server. The tools used for building the final objects however are native to the server's OS. PDO comes with Foundation Framework, Distributed Objects Framework, DOEventLoop and other core classes. Bundled tools are: Objective-C++ compiler, GDB, libg++, GNU make, Portable BuildServer, Portable nmserver, Mach Emulation, NEXTSTEP's default system, on-line documentation. Currently supported platforms are: HP-UX, SunOS, Solaris, Digital UNIX. 3.8 EOF --- Enterprise Objects Framework EOF EOF is the latest replacement for the DatabaseKit and available as an extra product. EOF bridges the gap between objects and relational databases. With EOF you can bring the advantage of object oriented design etc. to applications which use relational databases. (Therefore you don't need an object oriented database!) EOF clarifies many things. It supports a three-tier client/server architecture by separating the user interface, business objects and the database. In fact you can simply exchange the database (by changing the adapter) and still use the same application! Developing under EOF doesn't limit you to e.g. Objective-C. EOF allows the integration of e.g. 4GL code as well as SQL etc. all combined under the advantage of NeXT's developer tools. EOF includes client and server software. It consists of the Enterprise Object Modeler, runtime libraries and adapters for SYBASE,ORACLE and Informix (other adapters available from the DBMS producers). It currently runs under HP-UX, SunOS, Solaris, Digital UNIX and always requires PDO. For client use you additionally need NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. 3.9 WebObjects WebObjects WebObjects helps you building dynamic Web pages. It is targeted to the server side of the Web and there mostly to the intranets, also most people might find it very useful for the Internet, too. It is operating system independent and runs under Windows NT, Solaris, HP-UX, Digital UNIX and NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. WebObjects contains development tools to build components for your application logic, as well as a set of reusable components to manage the rendering of your application. Because WebObjects is Java compatible, you even can integrate Java applets in your application today. It supports the standard http servers which have to support CGI or NSAPI interface. WebObjects supports database access to Informix, Oracle, Sybase and DB/2. What's unique about WebObjects is the ability to share the logic of your Web application and your data with other internal applications. It means that you are not required to maintain a dedicated database or write specific application code for your Web application. Currently there are three versions of WebObjects: WebObjects, WebObjects Pro and WebObjects Enterprise. WebObjects itself is freely available to anybody interested in. WebObjects Pro contains PDO and WebObjects Enterprise contains PDO and EOF with a special license to connect to the Internet. But because WebObjects is a brand new product, look at http://www.next.com/WebOjects/ for further information. WebObjects is free for academic usage. 3.10 Rhapsody Rhapsody Rhapsody is the code name for Apple's new operating system, based on BSD 4.4 and OPENSTEP frameworks. Because it's not released yet, we don't talk about it. (Also we could, of course, spread some details, but it would only produce more noise.) Please refer to http://www.apple.com/, http://www.devworld.apple.com/, http://www.macrumors.com/, http://www.rhapsodyos.com/ for more details 3.11 WWW Browser WWW Browser Browser OmniWeb NetSurfer SpiderWoman NetScape First: There is no Java capable browser. Several NEXTSTEP browsers are available for NEXTSTEP. The currently most advanced browser is named 'OmniWeb'. OmniWeb is commercial in the way that you need a license to use it in a network. A single user license is free. OmniWeb seems to be continuesly updated and support is known to be good. OmniWeb is also supporting a lot of well known Netscape features. There is also a public domain WWW browser named 'SpiderWoman'. It's plus is the NEXTSTEP look and feel (e.g. you navigate through the Web like you navigate your filesystem with WorkspaceManager). Anyway SpiderWoman is somehow unstable and it seems as if development stopped. Another commercial browser is NetSurfer. Demos are available on the ftp sites. This browser is preferred by several people because it integrates ftp access very well. Anyway you have to pay for it. Netscape isn't available for NEXTSTEP and is unlikely to be ported. 3.12 Newsreader Newsreader Alexandra NewsGrazer NewsFlash RadicalNews There are currently four well known newsreaders for NEXTSTEP. First there is Alexandra, a public domain newsreader and second there is NewsGrazer (and unsupported NeXT product). You should test them to get your personal favorite. The only real difference is the support of NEXTSTEP 3.3J (Japanese) and flatfiles in NewsGrazer, while the interface in Alexandra seems to be better for many people. NewsFlash is a commercial product which adds several features. As RadicalNews it supports article threading, automated posting and extraction of multi-part files. Demos are available on the ftp sites. E-mail inquiries should go to support@wolfware.com. Further info is available at: http://www.wolfware.com/ RadicalNews is a commercial newsreader. It supports true article threading, quoted text highlighting, japanese and Latin-1 support, URL-support, an interface to Digital Librarian, a sophisticated coloring scheme and much more. Info is available at: http://www.radical.com/. A note to both commercial versions: the community is very splitted about which version is to prefer. In general it seems as if there are no really 'killer features' so it prefers much to personal taste. Demos are available and don't forget to test the free versions, too! 4 MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION Misc Various Unsorted 4.1 How do I get pictures of people from remote sites to appear in Mail.app and NewsGrazer? Pictures, in Mail Pictures, in NewsGrazer Mail, remote Pictures Newsgrazer, remote Pictures You can do this in the following ways. * Mail In /LocalLibrary/Images/People put a tiff (64x64) in the form of person@remote.site.domain.tiff (all lowercase). In /LocalLibrary/Images/People/passwd add an entry for the person: person@remote.site.domain:*:-2:-2::/nodir:/noshell (person and sitename need to be all lowercase as well) In the future anytime you get mail from the person their picture should appear. You can include an "aliases" file in /LocalLibrary/Images/People too. This allows you to use the same picture for somebody that might send you mail from accounts on many different sites, or for those people whose letters use several different routings. To do this, you include entries in this local aliases file like so: bkohler@ucrac1.ucr.edu:bkohler.gonzo.ucr.edu gonzo.ucr.edu!bkohler@uupsi2.uucp:bkohler.gonzo.ucr.edu There should then be a .tiff file called bkohler.gonzo.ucr.edu.tiff. There can be no CAPITAL LETTERS in this file. So even if the address in the From: field looks like gonzo.ucr.edu!bkohler@uupsi2.UUCP, keep the letters lowercase in the aliases file. As always, you have to restart Mail before these changes take effect. * NewsGrazer In /LocalLibrary/NewsGrazer/People put a tiff (64x64) in the form of person.remote.site.domain (all lowercase). This is a different naming convention from what Mail uses. There is a large archive of some 4000 or 5000 pictures prepared for this purpose. The name of this archive is Faces3.tar.Z and it is about 4.1 MBytes large. Currently it is available from several anonymous ftp sites (e.g. sonata.cc.purdue.edu in: /pub/next/graphics/Images/icons/people) That image archive also contains a script which automatically creates proper alias and passwd files. 4.2 How to manipulate and examine default settings * A command line utility for examining defaults is available from: sutro.sfsu.edu:/pub/wmdefaults1.0.tar.Z * A PD App, DefaultMgr.app, is available on the NeXT ftp archives. * A more brute approach (done by DefaultMgr.app): Start the application under gdb, and then try the following sequence of commands: break *0x500976a commands 1 silent printf "%s: ", *$a2 output {char *}(4+$a2) echo \n cont end run [Carl Edman ] adds: DefaultMgr.app doesn't any longer work properly under 3.0. It still is able to manipulate defaults but can't any longer "investigate" apps to find out which defaults they use. [eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)] adds: Needs to be revised for 3.x systems. wmdefaults is only for 2.x; it's not needed for 3.0 and later. 4.3 How do I run NextApps remotely? Remote running On the local machine make sure you have public window server access, this is set from the Preferences application. On the foreign NeXT machine run the application from a terminal window with the -NXHost . Both machines should be running the same version of NeXTstep. [shayman@Objectario.com (Steve Hayman)] NeXTSTEP 3.1 and higher includes a demo application called OpenSesame that simplifies this. You can select a program in Workspace and use > Service > Open Sesame > Open on Another Host ...to launch a program on a remote machine. This is a way to run old, non-fat-binary software on new NeXTSTEP/Intel machines. 4.4 Why does UUCP hangs on outgoing connections after sending the password, but other communications software do not have a problem with it? UUCP What is happening is that the remote machine is waiting for you to end your login or password by typing a "Return" (aka &Mcirc; or CR or CARRIAGE RETURN). UUCP ends a line by sending a LineFeed (aka Ĵ or LF). Since UUCP doesn't send the CR, the login sequence is never completed, and you will usually get one of two error messages: wanted "password:" (means that username needs to end with a CR) imsg waiting for SYNC< (means that password needs to end with CR) So how do you get UUCP to send CR, instead of LF? End the send string with the sequence n c. For instance this line in L.sys will send a LF after login, but a CR after password. myfeed Any DIR 9600 cub "" ATTD19095551212 9600 \ "" ogin:--ogin: Unext ssword: secret\n\c 4.5 How do I access the NeXT's Digital Webster Dictionary from a program? Webster Get Jiro Nakamura's define program from the archiver servers: define.tar.Z. This will allow you to access the database from the command line. This program breaks under 3.x. For 3.x there are two other programs which might be useful: Webster.a5 and websterd. 4.6 How do I get the arrow keys to work in csh? csh, arrow keys This is for people who use a terminal app that does vt100 keyboard emulation - pasc First, add these lines to your .cshrc (preferably between the if and endif): set editmode=emacs set macrofiles=.macros Then create a file called .bindings and put in it: bind-to-key ExecuteNamedMacro '\e[' And, next, you need to make a file called ".macros". Using an editor like emacs (which can insert control characters using a &Qcirc; prefix), into this file put: A^@^@^@^A^P B^@^@^@^A^N C^@^@^@^A^F D^@^@^@^A^B where &@circ; means Control-@ and ƒ means Control-A, etc. Also, don't put in the leading spaces. This will set up the left and right arrows to move back and forth on the line, and the up and down arrows will cycle through your history. On Intel machines these sequences are a little different: A^A^@^@^@^P B^A^@^@^@^N C^A^@^@^@^F D^A^@^@^@^B Then source .cshrc and the changes should take effect. 4.7 What default affects menu location? Menu, location Do the following. dwrite GLOBAL NXMenuX <value> dwrite GLOBAL NXMenuY <value> 4.8 How to get Gourmet to boot up the Mathematica 2.0 kernel? Mathematica Login as root, or get root privileges running su, and execute the following five commands: mkdirs /NextApps/Mathematica.app/Kernel/NeXT cd /NextApps/Mathematica.app/Kernel ln -s uuuuu/Mathematica.app/Kernel/Display Utilities cd NeXT ln -s vvvvv/math mathexe where uuuuu is the directory where Mathematica was placed (typically, /LocalApps) and vvvvv is the directory where the executable math was placed (typically, /usr/local/bin) 4.9 Manipulating the Loginwindow loginwindow dwrites There are some for loginwindow: [Jess Anderson writes:] Here, I hope, is the quasi-definitive story on dwrites that affect the loginwindow. I'm indebted to several people, notably Art Isbell, Kristian Koehntopp, Dan Danz, Louie Mamakos, John Kheit, Felix Lugo, and Paul Sears, for some of the information presented here. Remember that dwrites are not supported by NeXT; they may change with any subsequent system release. These I've checked out using 3.0; some or all may work with earlier releases, but I can't vouch for most of them. All these dwrites must be done as root. You can also run as root and use DefaultMgr to set them (which is a whole lot more convenient if you're intending to fiddle with some of them). After setting the things you want, restart the WindowServer by logging out of the current session and typing exit on the login panel. OK, here's what we know (or think we do :-): dwrite loginwindow DefaultUser <login-name> Most new machines have set to me. This dwrite logs in user automatically. User must not have a password set, hence don't use this in a networked environment! dwrite loginwindow HostName "<host_name>" dwrite loginwindow HostName localhost These cause your host name to appear on the login panel. You need quote marks only if there's a space in the name. The first form hard-codes the name into root's defaults database. The second form uses whatever name has been set as localhost in NetInfo, which is convenient for networked machines. The font, size, color, and position of the printed string are not accessible (drat!). dwrite loginwindow ImageFile <path/to/a/suitable.tiff> This uses the tiff image pointed to instead of the standard one (in /usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow.app/English.lproj/nextlogin.tiff, .lproj as appropriate for your main language) as the login panel. Be sure you get the pointer right, though, or you'll have to boot single-user to fix it. In practical terms, the image is constrained in various ways I won't detail here. dwrite loginwindow TimeToDim <integer_number> No relation to the dim time set by Preferences. The units are odd, I think. Felix reported them as 1/34 second. However, when I changed it to 1020, I got 15 seconds to dimming, and 680 gives 10 seconds, that I'm sure of. So I think the units are 1/68 second. Maybe Felix just thought it was too damn long! We all know it seems longer when you're not having fun waiting. :-) Whatever, the login screen dims to about half after this length of time. dwrite loginwindow MoveWhenIdle YES This causes the panel to move around approximately in Backspace bouncing-off-the-walls-tiff fashion. The point is to avoid burning the screen phosphors, as a static image would tend to do. The animation is controlled by the next couple dwrites. dwrite loginwindow MovementTimeout <real_number> The units are seconds. The panel starts moving (assuming the preceding is set to YES) after this time. If you set it to be less than the TimeToDim time, the movement starts before the dimming occurs. I did not try zero. I can't stand waiting around for things to happen, so I use 10 seconds for both times. The default appears to be 5 minutes. dwrite loginwindow MovementScale <integer_number> No movement occurs if this is set to 1. But it looks like the units might be approximately pixels for each change of position (the frequency of which is controlled by the next dwrite). If you put a big number here, say 200, the image moves in big jumps, but I don't know if the 200 is divided up somehow between change in x- and y-coordinates. I wouldn't worry about it much, just set it to something you like. Since my image contains readable text, I want it to scroll smoothly around, so I use the apparently minimum value, 2. The default appears to be 10. dwrite loginwindow MovementRate <real_number> The units are seconds. The image jumps by the amount above every this many seconds. The default is 0.0666 seconds. Bigger numbers mean slower motion. Since I don't like things being too jumpy or zooming around, I set this to 0.1 seconds. This makes my image ooze at a pace befitting an elderly person like me. dwrite loginwindow PowerOffDisabled YES This makes it a little harder to turn the machine off; you have to use the monitor or the minimonitor (- ) if it's set, rather than the key. dwrite loginwindow LoginHook <path/to/loginhook/executable> dwrite loginwindow LogoutHook <path/to/logouthook/executable> Pointers to the login and logout hooks, if used. It should be pointed out that some of these things (login/logout hooks, for example) are maybe more logically set where the loginwindow is invoked by the WindowServer, namely /etc/ttys. There are yet others. Here's the full list (thanks, Art): NXGetDefaultValue("loginwindow", "DebugHook") => 0x0 NXGetDefaultValue("loginwindow", "DryRun") => 0x0 NXGetDefaultValue("loginwindow", "WindowServerTimeout") => 0x0 NXRegisterDefaults("loginwindow", 0x16024) KeyMapPath: 0x12d97 "~/Library/Keyboards:/LocalLibrary/Keyboards:/NextLibrary/Keyboards" Keymap: 0x12de1 "/NextLibrary/Keyboards/USA" SwappedKeymap: 0x12e0a "No" LoginHook: 0x0 LogoutHook: 0x0 HostName: 0x0 ImageFile: 0x0 DefaultUser: 0x12e41 "me" PowerOffDisabled: 0x0 TimeToDim: 0x12e69 "2040" MoveWhenIdle: 0x12e0a "No" MovementTimeout: 0x12e8b "300.0" MovementRate: 0x12e9e "0.06666" MovementScale: 0x12eb4 "10" [Christopher J. Kane kane@cs.purdue.edu] Under NeXTSTEP 3.1, the login window has two buttons labeled "Reboot" and "Power" that allow a user to reboot and power down from the login window. In a public lab, this feature may be undesirable. The PowerOffDisabled default can be used to disable the buttons, but they are still shown in the window and push in when clicked (a bad user interface decision, IMHO). The program below patches loginwindow to eradicate the restart and power buttons. It makes the loginwindow's LoginButton class instance method initWithImage:altImage:andString: a no-op (just return nil). This patch has been applied to the machines in the NeXT lab at Purdue (like sonata.cc.purdue.edu for instance), and no adverse effects have been noted. This program must be run as root, since it writes to the file /usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow.app/loginwindow. An archive with a compiled executable has been submitted to sonata.cc.purdue.edu. /* * Patches the loginwindow.app to eradicate the restart and power * buttons from the login window. * * Christopher J. Kane (kane@cs.purdue.edu) * Released into public domain; August 13, 1993. */ #include <libc.h> #include <errno.h> void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { unsigned char patch[8] = {0x0, 0x0, 0x42, 0x80, 0x4e, 0x5e, 0x4e, 0x75}; int file = open("/usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow.app/loginwindow", O_WRONLY); if (-1==file) goto error; if (-1==lseek(file, 21170, SEEK_SET)) goto error; if (-1==write(file, patch, 8)) goto error; if (-1==close(file)) goto error; exit(0); error: fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s\n", argv[0], strerror(errno)); exit(1); } FAQ-Authors note: We strongly recommend to do a backup of the loginwindow application, because the patch alters the file directly and will most likely not work on different versions of the OS. 4.10 How does one set UNIX man pages to be viewed in nroff format with DL like the standard manual pages in NS2.x? man pages, NS2.x Beyond looking in the man pages under ixBuild, etc., what you want to do is put a few files (contents listed below file name) the .index directory: .roffArgs: -man displayCommand: tbl %s | nroff -man ixBuildOptions: -fman -Nwhatis -Ncat[1-8ln] -V Other options that people suggested for ixBuildOptions: -fman -Nwhatis -Ncat[1-8] -V /usr/local/man -fman -Nwhatis -V /usr/local/man/man* I don't think you need to explicitly name the directory in the first alternative, but you do in the second unless you want the cat* directories indexed as well. Note: Do NOT leave a trailing return after the line in ixBuildOptions; DL will barf. (I think someone said that, as shipped, the standard man .index/ixBuildOptions had this problem.) [From: Eric D. Engstrom ] Can anyone tell me what the command line for this might be under NEXTSTEP 3.0? Short answer: RTM on ixbuild(1) - specifically the parameter "-g". In addition, I'd like to inform the newsgroup of a simple hack I setup on my own machine to create a unified DL target for all UNIX Manual pages (including system, local, gnu, whatever). This was easier under 2.x because IXBuild (pre IXKit) had more hacks in it... Basically, you need to setup a directory with sym-links to the various man-page directories; For example: (397)basilisk% pwd /LocalLibrary/Documentation/ManPages (398)basilisk% ls -alg total 728 drwxrwxr-x 2 eric wheel 1024 Mar 28 18:03 ./ drwxrwxr-x 11 root wheel 1024 Mar 27 00:41 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 eric wheel 370 Feb 27 22:01 .README -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 872 Feb 27 17:11 .dir.tiff -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 20 Feb 27 17:11 .displayCommand -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 47 Feb 27 17:10 .index.iname -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 6 Feb 27 17:10 .index.itype -rw-r--r-- 1 eric wheel 729088 Mar 28 18:44 .index.store -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 5 Feb 27 17:11 .roffArgs lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 18 Feb 27 17:53 gnu -> /usr/local/gnu/man/@ lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 14 Feb 27 17:53 local -> /usr/local/man/@ lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 9 Feb 27 17:53 news -> /news/man/@ lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 35 Feb 27 17:53 system -> /usr/man/@ Notice that I also copied all the .[a-z]* files from the /usr/man/ directory as well. Then, use ixbuild -gl to (re)build the index. If your any of the links point to directories on other devices, add "d" to "-gl". "-v" will give you verbose output (like my writing style ;-). RTM under ixbuild(1) for more info. Unfortunately, once the index is built, I've never successfully gotten DL to update it correctly. Instead I have to do it by hand using ixbuild -ogldvc (actually, I setup a cron job to reindex weekly.) If you have troubles, try removing the .index.store file and rebuilding the entire database. I've had intermittent problems with ixbuild under 3.0. 4.11 Appending a signature and addition headers to your e-mail .signature signature Mail There is a bundle for Mail to which, beside other features, allows you to add a .signature file to outgoing e-mails: EnhancedMail.bundle. This software package is available by the FTP archive sites. Here are other solutions which might serve you as well: [Carl Edman ] First create a simple text file the following content: #!/bin/sh { if test -r ${HOME}/.add-header; then cat ${HOME}/.add-header; fi cat - if test -r ${HOME}/.signature; then echo "--"; cat ${HOME}/.signature; fi }| /usr/lib/sendmail "$@" A good name for this file would be sendmail-addheader. If you want to and can install it for system-wide use put this file in e.g. /usr/lib. Otherwise your private /Unix/bin directory is also fine. Make certain that this file has execute permission. To set that, use e.g. chmod 755 /usr/lib/sendmail-addheader. Next, open up the preferences panel in Mail. Switch to the expert options. Change the Mailer option from /usr/lib/sendmail (which it should originally be) to /usr/lib/sendmail-addheader (or whatever the name of the file you created is). OK this and you should be set. From now on your file /.signature file should always be appended to all mail sent out with Mail.app. In addition if you have a file called add-header in your home-directory it should automatically be prepended to your outgoing mail. To implement a reply-to line, you would simply give it the following content: Reply-to: My Real Human Name <name@my.real.address> IMPORTANT: Make certain that you have one and exactly one newline at the end of /.add-header. Anything might break outgoing mail. Beware! BUG: The /.signature file is not added properly for NeXT mail containing attachments. The headers will still be added properly. This could be fixed but probably is more of a hassle than it is worth. [From: jbrow@radical1.radical.com (Jim Brownfield)] I have added a Terminal Service to terminal to add a signature file whenever I type "0" (command/zero), and I thought this might be of interest to people who read your FAQ. I have used this technique for over a year with no problems, and it has the advantage of working both with non-NeXT and NeXT Mail. First, you must create a file with your signature containing the characters "--" on the first line (there has been some discussion as to whether this should be "-- " ("--" followed by a blank), but my file only has the "--" as the first line. The rest of the file should contain your normal signature. If you place the file in your home directory, I recommend NOT using the filename ".signature" for this file since it may conflict with other programs (like NewsGrazer). I use the filename ".fullSignature". The file used for the signature should be ascii and not RTF to allow the file to be used for NeXT and non-NeXT mail. You can create a "Get signature" service by launching Terminal and accessing the "Terminal Services" window through the "Info/Terminal Services..." menu item. Then perform the following: 1. Create a new service by clicking on the "New" button. Change the service name to "Get signature". 2. Add the command "cat " and "0" (zero) to the "Command and Key Equivalent" entry. The "0" is obviously arbitrary, but I've found that it doesn't conflict with any of the commands I normally use. 3. De-select any items checked within the "Accept" grouping. Select the "As Input" radio button under the "Use Selection" section. 4. Change the "Execution" popup to "Run Service in the Background". Select the "Return Output" and "No Shell" radio buttons. 5. Click the "Save" button. Now, when you type "0" (actually, from any application), your signature will be added wherever your cursor is located (be careful not to have text selected as it will replace the selected text with your signature). I have found this to be very convenient for adding my .sig to outgoing mail. 4.12 How can I quickly find a file if I don't know its directory? searching, files find The Unix find command on the NeXT has the capability of quickly searching a database of all the files. This database is located in /etc/find.codes and has to be generated periodically. You can automatically generate this database, say twice a week at 3:15 a.m., by adding this line to your file /etc/crontab.local (you might have to create this file). 15 03 * * 2,5 root /usr/lib/find/updatedb > /usr/adm/updatedb.err After this has run, you can quickly find any file from a terminal by typing find where is a part of the file name you want (it is case-sensitive). [Carl Edman ] adds: Find still works under 3.0, but now has to match the entire filename (including the path) for a match to be recognized i.e. where under 2.x you would have find foobar, under 3.0 you have find '*foobar*' (The ' are necessary to prevent the shell from expanding the wildcards itself). [From: Geert Jan van Oldenborgh ] I find the following script in /usr/local/bin very handy to bring back the behavior that God Intended find to have: #!/bin/csh if ( $#argv == 1 ) then /usr/bin/find \*$1\* else set noglob /usr/bin/find $argv[1-] unset noglob endif 4.13 Mail.app suddenly stopped working! Mail, doesn't start When I double-click the Mail.app icon it loads and seems to start but then just terminates. How can I fix this ? Usually the problem is caused by Mail.app being terminated with extreme prejudice such as by a power outage or kill -9. Under those circumstances Mail.app may leave a lock file in your active mailbox. Due to a bug 3.0 Mail.app doesn't ask for permission to override this lock when started up again but just dies. Open a shell and look in /Mailboxes/Active.mbox. If this directory contains a file called .lock you have found the culprit. You can safely remove this file. 4.14 Recycler doesn't work anymore?! Recycler For some reason, after moving my home directory, my recycler no longer works? [From: eric%basilisk@src.honeywell.com (Eric D. Engstrom)] Basically, when you dump a file in the recycler, the workspace manager (attempts) to move it to one of the following locations: (note: no order implied here, because I'm unsure of the actual order used) - $HOME/.NeXT/.NextTrash (Should always exist; unsure what happens if it doesn't) - /tmp/.NextTrash_$USER Automatically created if non-existent) - $MNT-POINT/.NextTrash/$USER (.NextTrash NOT automatically created if non-existent) Also, the workspace requires that the trash directory into which it puts the to-be-deleted file be on the same disk partition that the file originally came from (for speed, I assume). Also, an example of the permissions for the external disk .NextTrash directory (which is not automatically created) should be : ls -aldg /private/mnt2/local/.NextTrash drwxrwxrwt [...] /private/mnt2/local/.NextTrash/ Note: /private/mnt2/local is the mount point. Do chmod 1777 .NextTrash to get the permissions right. Thus, if you moved your home directory from one partition to another, the one you left may not have a "recycler-repository" to use. 4.15 How to hear sound from CDPlayer.app thought NEXTSTEP system? digital audio CDPlayer To hear sound, the following info is important. [Carl Edman ] Hearing the sound directly on the NeXT can be done with the play3401 program from the archives if you have a Toshiba 3401 series drive. Theoretically this can also be done with NEC [78]4-1s and Apple CD 300s, though I know of no NeXT program which supports them. Most other drives (including the NeXT CD-ROM) just don't have the hardware to do it. There is another player available: CD_evil, which is based on play3401 but offers a GUI. FAQ-Authors note: On Intel system it's very easy: just connect the CD-Audio out (internal) to your CD-in of the soundcard (internal). Anyway there are problems with different drives. E.g. we know, that the Toshiba, Sony and Nec drives currently use the same instruction set to access audio data. So be aware that there are drives which simply can't be accessed through CDPlayer. 4.16 How do I decompress a file with the extension .compressed? .compressed compress uncompress gnutar tar gzip gunzip Do this with the following methods. [From: sanguish@digifix.com] .compressed files have been compressed in the Workspace Manager. Basically, they are just .tar.Z files. Even single files are tarred as well as compressed. There are several methods of decompressing these files. 1. They can be decompressed by selecting them in the Workspace, and Selecting uncompress from the file menu. 2. They can be decompressed by selecting them in the Workspace, and bringing up the Workspace Inspector. (You can double click to get there faster) 3. You can rename them to be .tar.Z and handle them the way you do them. FAQ-Authors note: use uncompress to access the .Z files and/or gunzip to access .z/.gz files. Use tar to access .tar files. You might also you gnutar to access both together, e.g. to access a .tar.gz at once. Read the man pages for more information. 4.17 How do I change the Workspace compression app? compress gzip gunzip dwrites Change it with the given method. [Stephen Peters ] You can change the tools that the Workspace uses to create and read its .compressed files by issuing the following commands in a terminal window: dwrite Workspace compress /usr/bin/gzip dwrite Workspace uncompress /usr/bin/gunzip dwrite Workspace AlwaysTarForCompress YES [Reuven M. Lerner reuven@the-tech.mit.edu] This is generally a good thing, except that people might follow your advice and then try to send NeXTmail to someone who is still using compress/uncompress. Changing Workspace/uncompress to gunzip isn't a problem, since it uncompresses all sorts of files, but people should be very careful not to change Workspace/compress to gzip unless they will only be dealing with other gzip-equipped users. 4.18 console: loginwindow: netinfo problem - No such directory. netinfo problem, /keyboard directory is missing. It's benign... but annoying. niutil -create . /keyboard Fixed in 2.1 and up. 4.19 Root login not possible on client machine root login A number of people have complained about the situation where root can log onto the configuration server, but not its clients. Login proceeds normally, then a window with "Workspace error Internal error (signal 10)" pops up. Other users are not affected. This scenario occurs with NetBooted clients that are not permitted root access to / via the server's /etc/exports file, either via an explicit root= option or (the most heinous) anon=0. For security reasons many sites will NOT want to permit such access. Note that what you're up against is only a Workspace Manager misfeature; there's no problem logging in as root on the real UNIX console, or logging in as a non-root user and then using "su" to obtain root privileges. Root access is needed to: * Log in a root Workspace. * Perform BuildDisk on a client. * Run the GuidedTour demo for the first time subsequent invocations will not autologin, but they will run just fine if you log in as NextTour (no password). It is not required to perform updates on the local NetInfo database, for any normal user operations, nor to run programs requiring root access on the server using -NXHost. 4.20 How to boot NEXTSTEP from the second (higher SCSI ID) HD? Boot, from higher SCSI ID Boot, from second drive Use the following command. bsd(1,0,0) -a which will then ask you for the drive to use as the root disk, or still easier, bsd(1,0,0)sdmach rootdev=sd1 In the boot command the name of the bootfile can be replaced by '-'. This is very useful as the length of the bootcommand which can be stored in the permanent memory is very limited (on NeXT machines only). So the only way to eg. increase the number of buffers permanently to 128 in the boot command is to use the following boot command: sd- nbu=128 (sdmach nbu=128 would have been too long). 4.21 How to make swapfile shrink to the normal size? swapfile The swapfile is located in /private/vm. The only current way to make it shrink is to reboot the machine. See the man pages for swaptab for more information. Note, that putting a space after the comma in /etc/swaptab (lowat=,hiwat=) makes swapon ignore the hiwat entry. There is a short trick which seems to work for several people: type exit in the login panel. This will exit the window server and restart it immediatly. If you are lucky, this will reclaim some space. 4.22 Does netinfo work between machines running NEXTSTEP 2.x and 3.x? netinfo Yes. 4.23 Why does the console user "own" the external disk filesystem? filesystem, external You need an entry in /etc/fstab so the disk will be mounted at boot time, rather than being "automounted" when somebody logs in. Automounted disks are owned by whoever logged in, fstab-mounted disks are owned by root. Something like this: /dev/sd0a / 4.3 rw,noquota,noauto 0 1 /dev/sd1a /Disk 4.3 rw,noquota 0 2 (assuming the external disk is to be mounted as /Disk) fstab should be niloaded into the Netinfo database if it contains any NFS mounts. 4.24 How to limit coredump sizes? coredump, size limit Limit it by the following command. This will work for apps running from a shell. limit coredumpsize 0 If your dock or workspace apps are dumping core, there's also: dwrite Workspace CoreLimit <bytesize> 4.25 What is the maximum value of nbuf that I can specify on bootup? buffers, ROM I know the ROM monitor only allows twelve characters, but I use something like this: bsd sdmach nbuf=xxx (NeXT machines only) Enter the hardware monitor. Hit 'p' to adjust the configuration parameters. It will respond: Boot command: ? Enter sd- nbu=xxx, where xxx is a number less than 256. 4.26 How can I change the mouse pointer shape and color? Maybe this could point you into the right direction. Pipe it to pft and see what happens.... %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 %%BoundingBox: 0 0 16 16 %%EndComments 0 0 16 16 Retained window dup windowdeviceround gsave 16 16 scale 16 16 4 [16 0 0 -16 0 16] {< ffffffff00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0d0fffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0d0f0d0fffff000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0d0ffd0f0d0fffff00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fffffd0ffd0ffd0ffd0fffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fffffd0ff50ff50ff50ffd0fffff000000000000000000000000000000000000 fffff50ff50ff50ff50ff50ff50fffff00000000000000000000000000000000 fffff50fd00fd00fd00fd00fd00f908fffff0000000000000000000000000000 ffffd00fd00fd00fd00fd00fd00f908f908fffff000000000000000000000000 ffffd00fd00fd00f908f908fffffffffffffffffffff00000000000000000000 ffff908f908fffff00ff00ffffff000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff908fffff0000ffff00ff00ffffff00000000000000000000000000000000 ffffffff00000000ffff00ff00ffffff00000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0000000000000000ffff00ff00ffffff0000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000ffff00ff00ffffff0000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000ffffffff00000000000000000000000000000000 >} false 3 alphaimage grestore gstate nextdict /_NXSharedGrayAlpha get NX_TwelveBitRGB 1 index setwindowdepthlimit windowdeviceround 0 0 16 16 5 4 roll 0 32 Copy composite nulldevice termwindow Maybe somebody wants to write some kind of "pointer editor"? There is also a commercial application named 'MouseMagic' which handles this and custom acceleration modes. 4.27 How do I customize BuildDisk to create a bootable disk of my own configuration? BuildDisk, customization The BuildDisk application is extremely limited in terms of the types of disks configuration it knows how to build. Essentially it "knows" about swapdisks, optical disks, 330 and 660 MB SCSI disks. If you wish to do custom configurations you should look at existing BLD script files in /etc/BLD.* There is a script which you can use to specify which BLD script you are using, which disktab entry, and other useful parameters in /usr/etc/builddisk Some things to note: * the fstab installed on the target disk is specified in the newclient command in the BLD script. standard fstabs are extracted from /usr/template/client/fstab.* * the BLD scripts do not put down a new boot block on the scsi disk, you may want to install one by hand using the /usr/etc/disk program. * some disks boot fine but NeXTstep comes up with a blank window and no login window. This is due sometimes to forgetting to install an accessible /NextLibrary/{Fonts,Sounds}. In general you need quite a lot of things to make a bootable disk. You can build a minimally usable bootable floppy (for crash recovery purposes). There is a modified version of builddisk (to make it support building floppies, a minimal change) and a BLD script to build the boot floppy available at cs.orst.edu in next/sources/Bootfloppy.tar.Z. (I put this together in response to several requests.) A newer version of Bootfloppy for 2.1 is on the archives as next/sources/util/Bootfloppy2.1.tar.Z. Also available from the archives is BootFloopy 3.x (for --- you guessed it --- NEXTSTEP 3.x). I might also add that one can improve on disk usage while enhancing functionality. BuildDisk (which is used by the various BootFloppy scripts) just copies the standard binaries for ls, mv, cp aso. from /bin. These binaries are statically linked as shipped by NeXT which makes them huge. (e.g. /bin/ls is 106496 bytes large. /usr/local/bin/gls with more features is just 16268 bytes). If you replace these binaries by the BSD or GNU equivalents you can save several hundred kBytes on your boot floppy. This extra diskspace can be used for tar, dump and more tools which makes the boot floppy actually usable. Tested. 4.28 Are there any more dwrites useful for the workspace, ...? dwrite, misc There a lot of dwrite useful for you. (self explanatory) dwrite Workspace compress /usr/bin/gzip dwrite Workspace uncompress /usr/bin/gunzip dwrite Workspace AlwaysTarForCompress Yes dwrite Workspace DockOrginX (some number) dwrite Workspace DockOrginY (some number) dwrite Workspace DockOffsetX -1057 (leftmost) dwrite Workspace DockOnTop (0 or 1 for true or false) dwrite appname NXCMYKAdjust YES dwrite Preferences 24HourClock yes 4.29 What is the @LongLink message from gnutar all about? @LongLink gnutar Because gnutar tries to be somewhat compatible to the old tar format, it can't store pathnames longer than 100 chars. In order to store files with longer names, it generates a special file entry containing just the longer filename. These are the long links you see. Nothing to worry about. 4.30 What stands the file .place3_0.wmd for? .place3_0.wmd The Workspace uses it to record the window attributes (sort order, view type, icon positions and so on) Switching the 'UNIX Expert' flag in UNIX Preferences panel off hides all files which start by '.'. 4.31 How to create transparent icons with IconBuilder IconBuilder icon, transparent If you are repainting an icon on the filesystem e.g. .dir.tiff make a copy and remove it first. Then reload the directory (the default icon gets shown). This is needed because the system caches icons. Now here comes how to create transparent backgrounds using IconBuilder: * Select Format->Document Layout (or New document layout) * 'Has alpha' must be checkedus * Open the color inspector * UNcheck 'paint in overlay mode' * Choose any color (I took white) * Set Opacity to 0 * Use Paintbucket to fill the whole icon * Now set Opacity back to 100 * Draw the icon What 'Paint in overlay mode… does, is that when checked, it will use both the alpha (opacity) of the existing pixel and the alpha selected in the color inspector and combine both into a new color. When unchecked the existing pixel will just be replaced with one using color and alpha as selected in the inspector. 4.32 How to access the MAC format of a mixed DOS/MAC CD-ROM Mac DOS CD-ROM Some CD-ROMs are using multiple fileformats to adress more people. This is done by putting two filesystems on the disk. With NEXTSTEP you are able to acess both. But what to do if the Workspace only shows you the DOS side of a disk, while the Mac side is often more convenient (due to e.g. long filenames). The solution is to change the priority the system is searching for a usable filesystem. You need to rearange the filesystems in /usr/filesystems to fit your needs. Here is how: * ls -lR /usr/filesystems shows the actual searching queue. * mv /usr/filesystems /tmp/filesystems to backup things * mkdir /usr/filesystems recreate the directory. * cp -p -r /tmp/filesystems/xx /usr/filesystems copy the filesystems in order of searching back to the default location. * chmod 4755 /usr/filesystems/xx.fs/xx.util reset SUID mode * reset the links in /usr/filesystems/DOS.fs/. 4.33 Is there a PPP for NEXTSTEP PPP There is a commercial PPP and a public domain PPP implementation. For the public domain PPP there is an additional FAQ available at: http://www.thoughtport.com:8080/PPP/ The public domain PPP is based on the PPP-2.2 distribution. This distribution offers several enhancements over ppp-2.1.2. Especially noteworty is that it implements BSD packet compression. Using packet compression can lead to higher throughput than you get using compressing modems. The port works on Motorola, Intel (both Mux and NeXT supplied serial drivers), and HP systems running OS 3.2 and 3.3. It also works in conjunction with Black and White's NXFAX software. You may also want to join the mailing list for PPP. This will keep you informed of new releases and will provide an arena for discussing problems with the NeXT specific PPP port. To add yourself to the list (or for any other administrative requests), send an email message to: listproc@listproc.thoughtport.com requesting you be placed on the list. Make sure to include your proper return email address. To send mail to all the participants on the list, address your messages to: nextppp@listproc.thoughtport.com 4.34 NIS and OpenStep NIX lookupd There's a new lookupd in OpenStep for Mach 4.0, which works a bit differently than the old lookupd. The new lookupd has a number of "agents" that do lookups from various information systems (NetInfo, DNS, NIS, the Flat Files, and the internal cache). You can specify which information sources should be consulted, and in what order. You can also specify which information sources should be consulted for different categories. There is documentation for all this in the file /NextLibrary/Documentation/NextAdmin/ReleaseNotes/lookupd.rtf. One change in NIS lookups is that a "+" in the /etc/passwd file does not trigger a NIS lookup. If you want user lookups to consult both /etc/passwd and the NIS passwd maps, you need to tell lookupd to use both Flat File and NIS agents. For example, if you configure all this in your root domain, you could set user lookups to use Cache+NetInfo+Flat Files+NIS like this: niutil -create / /locations/lookupd niutil -create / /locations/lookupd/users niutil -createprop / /locations/lookupd/users LookupOrder \ CacheAgent NIAgent FFAgent NISAgent 4.35 System overloaded due to swapping Swapping CPU overload load Several people discovered the problem, that their system get's unusable due to swapping. This is extremely bad, because if this swapping occurs, you can't even break the CPU load causing process, because you can't even open a terminal window. There exists a programmed solution to this problem. Here it is! I should warn you that this will just kill the app --- it will not give you a chance to save files, nor will it bring up a nice panel asking if you really meant to do that. There is no warranty for anything by using this code. To use it, simple hold down alternate and right click on any window owned by the application or its icon on the dock. This will not kill some apps like Terminal because they run as root. In order to install it, you will have to edit /usr/lib/NextStep/windowpackage.ps. Make sure that you make a backup of this file before editing it! It is owned by root, so not just anyone can do this. To apply the patch, search for a line stating: rmdownEvProc (the procedure for processing right mouse button down events), and replace it with the code named examples/windowpackage.patch in the FAQ archive. For NS3.3 this code is located at line 1319. Disclaimer: you should not attempt this if you do not know what you are doing. You may be unable to log in (you will have to boot single user to restore the windowpackage.ps) if you mess it up. You can kill apps that you did not mean to kill. I cannot be responsible for what happens! Thanks to David Koski dkoski@cs.wisc.edu for supplying this code. 4.36 Swapfile issues swapfile swap, speed swap, size 1. use 'mkfile' to generate the lowat file size of you swapfile. This decreases the number of inodes used and keeps the permanent lowat size defragmented. 2. on fast machines, compress the swapfile (only possible on the primary file), on slow machines, disable compressing. 3. place the swapfile on the fastest hard disk drive you have. Use 'man swaptab' to learn more about configuring swap files. 4. to learn more about the never shrinking swapfile question, read the NeXTanswers about it. http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/ 5. if your swaptab ignores some options: be aware that options must not contain spaces! 4.37 Garbage collection and Objective-C garbage collection memory allocation Note that Boehm's conservative garbage collector from ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/gc/ works great with Objective-C, so you can use GC also with the other compilers. That GC could be enhanced a little by taking advantage of the Objective-C runtime type information; the hooks are there for it. 4.38 Setting up an anonymous FTP server ftp server Many people suggested just to read the online manual to ftpd. Probably a good idea. Anyway I included a not tested script in the FAQ distribution package which might be convinient for most people. 5 BLACK (NEXT) HARDWARE 5.1 What disk drives will work with the NeXT? disk drives There are some situations in which there are problems. Here is a short list which might help you in your disk drive quest: * These drives don't work with NeXT hardware: FUJITSU 2684SAU, SEAGATE ST51080N, IBM IB06H8891 * The SCSI driver for NeXT hardware only accepts asynchronous data transfer. Although every new SCSI-2 drive should support this mode, this isn't true for certain drives. Also sometimes there is a hardware switch (a little jumper on the drive) which switches between synchronous and asynchronous mode. You definitly can only use asynchronous disks! * There are also problems with sync negotiation on NeXT hardware. In general there should be another jumper to toggle this are you might change this with an SCSI utility. There are also problems with the tagged command queuing option. Anyway all these problem can be solved. Often these problems arise with IBM drives. We recommand to look in the technical documentation of the drive, which is available only from IBM's WWW site directly. Most SCSI disk drives will work without modifying /etc/disktab. There are problems with the installation of boot blocks and badly formed fstab generated by BuildDisk of NEXTSTEP 2.0. A disk connected to the NeXT will need to have a NeXT specific label written to it before it can be properly recognized by the system. If you get an error message "Invalid Label..." this indicates that the drive was successfully seen by the NeXT machine but it does not have the proper label, to install a label use the /usr/etc/disk program on the raw disk device that the system assigned to the device and use the label command to write the label onto the disk. [how the NeXT assigns disk devices is explained in the N&SA manual] NEXTSTEP releases 2.0 and up provide a low level disk formatter, sdform, which does not offer much flexibility, but gets the job done. Most drives are already formatted at the factory. You might look for the utility sdformat on the FTP sites as well, which overcomes some problems of sdform supplied by NeXT. 5.2 Will a 68030 NeXT Computer run NEXTSTEP 3.3? NS3.3 and 68030 Yes, but note that NeXTstep 3.3 is be optimized for the 68040 CPUs. NeXTstep 1.0 and 2.x were optimized for the 68030 CPU, 68882 FPU machines. 5.3 Does a FUJITSU MO (256 MB) works with NeXT original Hardware? FUJITSU MO Yes, they do 5.4 Can I run my SCSI-2 disks in synchronous mode? SCSI-2, synchronous synchronous mode Quick answer is: No. The reason is that the NeXT does not support synchronous transfers from the SCSI bus. It does support SCSI-2 disks running in asynchronous mode, which all SCSI-2 disks must do. 5.5 How do I configure my HP 660 to boot properly? HP 660, boot boot, HP 660 It has been reported that HP drives fail to autoboot on power on or while other devices are on the scsi bus. The problem seems to be with drives configured to spin-up automatically on power on do not get recognized at boot time. To remedy this problem reliably with HP 660Mb (HP97548) and 1Gbyte (HP 97549) drives remove the auto spinup jumper on the back of the drive. Looking at the disk from the back with the power connector on the lower left, it is the sixth jumper. The official fix was an EPROM change to the HP drive from HP. The HP drives took too long to wait up, so the system wasn't happy with the other drives coming ready first especially when the HP was suppose to be the boot device. (The EPROM is no longer available from NeXT). 5.6 What is the procedure for installing a Fujitsu M2263SA/SB SCSI Disk as the NeXT Boot Disk? Fujitsu M2263SA/SB See Izumi Ohzawa's note in /pub/next/docs/fujitsu.recipe available via anonymous ftp from sonata.cc.purdue.edu. 5.7 How to mount a corrupted OD that won't automount? OD, corrupt OD, mount If you can't automount an OD, and you can't fix it, you can still manually mount it. Log in as root. Type /usr/etc/mount /dev/od0a /FoO. It will ask you to insert the disk. Insert it. It is mounted. This method WILL mount a corrupted OD so you can read its contents. Since it is corrupted, it is not recommended to write to it. You should copy the important files to something else, then reformat it. 5.8 What non-NeXT CD Players that work with a NeXT? CD-ROM, NeXT A USENET survey summary: Apple CD-150 PLI 1035N for NeXT SUN CD-ROM drive (Sony CDU-8012, Rev. 3.1a) NEC 73M and 74 (transfer rates > of 300 KB/sec.) NEC 84 S NEC 4xi NEC 6x speed Apple CD-SC (Sony 541-22 mechanism) Apple CD-300 Apple CD-300+ Chinon CDS-431 (with new drivers) Eclipse CD-ROM from Microtech Toshiba 3201 Toshiba 3301 Toshiba 3401 Toshiba 3501 Toshiba TXM3301E1 Toshiba XM-2200A external Toshiba XM3601 Plextor Quadspeed Plextor PX-63CS (6xspeed) DENON DRD-253 external (data only, no music) HP's LaserROM drive (Toshiba XM-3301TA drive in HP's box) Texel 3024 (required a firmware upgrade to version was 1.11) As with all SCSI devices, they just work. Some drives only get problems with their audio support with CD-Player (due to not standardized SCSI audio commands, but this isn't a NeXT specific problem!) In contrary the question should be: are there SCSI CD-ROMs which don't work together with NEXTSTEP? 5.9 What are some other sources of toner cartridges and trays for the NeXT laser printer? toner, NeXT printer The toner cartridge is a standard EP-S cartridge, the same that fits the HP LaserJet III and some other printers. Any HP LaserJet II or III will fit. HPLJ4mSI cartridges do NOT fit. Any HP LJII or LJIII paper tray will fit. IIISI and 4 trays will not. Confused? Read again :-) 5.10 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with a NeXT? printers, on NeXT If you plan to connect an HP LaserJet (II, IIP, III, etc.) you need to make a special cable in order for the NeXT 040 and HP to get the hardware handshaking correct. This is true for whatever version of the OS you are running. NeXT 68040 to HP LaserJet III Cable (not a Null-modem cable): Mini-Din HP DB-25 1 (DTR) nc 2 (DCD) 4 (RTS) 3 (TXD) 3 (RXD) 4 (GND) 7 (GND) 5 (RXD) 2 (TXD) 6 (RTS) 5 (CTS) 7 (RTXC) nc 8 (CTS) 20 (DTR) You may want to use hardware flow control for reliability (ie /dev/ttyfa). If you have problems with other printers, check the cable pinouts in the printer's manual against the one recommended in the zs man-page! Refer to Chapter 13 in Network and System Administration. 5.11 What can I do to prevent my NeXT printer from running all the time? printer, turning off The NeXT 400dpi printer powers up every time you boot up when the print daemon is started (/usr/lib/NextPrinter/npd in /etc/rc). Apart from not running the daemon at boot time (commenting it out and having to run it by hand later), you can add the following lines to /etc/rc.local: if [ -f /usr/etc/nppower ]; then sleep 3 /usr/etc/nppower off (echo 'powering off NeXTprinter') >/dev/console fi Once you queue a print job the printer daemon will automatically power up the NeXT printer for you. The printer daemon will not automatically power off the machine after a print job, you will need to turn off the printer by typing /usr/etc/nppower off. 5.12 What type of microphones will work with the NeXT? microphone, NeXT Some NeXT owners use the RadioShack (Realistic) Tie Clip Microphone ($19.95) cat 33-1052. NeXT Computer, Inc. uses the "Sony Electret Condenser Microphone ECM-K7" in-house (available for $60). Some use Sony Tie-Clip microphone, #ECM-144, which costs around $40. Others have successfully used a WalMart brand microphone (available for $6). 5.13 How do I connect a modem to the NeXT? modem, on NeXT Previously, we suggested that people use Mac modem cables; however, it has come to our attention that there is no one standard Mac modem cable. Since correct modem operation on a NeXT depends upon a correctly wired modem cable, buying a Mac cable is not a good idea. Some Mac cables do not allow dial-in and no Mac cable allows the use of hardware flow control. For these reasons, we are recommending that only cables that meet NeXT specifications be used. [however, if you have a Mac modem cable lying around and don't care about dial-in or hardware flow control, then by all means....] These cables are available commercially from any store, how still sells NeXT stuff, and from Computer Cables and Devices, or can be custom built. Note that no off- the-shelf Mac cable will allow hardware flow control. It is however possible to make a such a cable from an Imagewriter II cable by replacing one of the mini-8 ends with a DB-25 connector. Hardware flow control is absolutely essential for all serial port connections with speeds of 9600 bps and above. Make certain that you cable supports it, your modem is configured to use it and you are using the hardware flowcontrol devices /dev/cuf[ab], /dev/ttydf[ab] and /dev/ttyf[ab], respectively. Most people use tip or kermit to control the modem. SLIP and/or UUCP may also be used (but are more complicated to set up and require the remote machine to also have SLIP and/or UUCP (respectively)). A version of the DOS-program pcomm can be found on ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de The 2.0 Network and System Administration Manual, which is available in hard-copy (shipped with each machine) contains an extensive description of how to use modems with the NeXT machine. Additionally NeXT in their TechSupportNotes series called SerialPortDoc.wn and UUCP for 1.0/1.0a systems . This document is available from most FTP sites that carry NextAnswers. Also, try to obtain the about.modem.Z file by Mark Adler in the pub/next/lore directory on sonata.cc.purdue.edu 5.14 Are there any alternative sources for the SCSI-II to SCSI-I cable required to attach external SCSI devices to the 040 NeXTs? SCSI cable to NeXT Yes. This cable is the same as the one used by Sun SparcStations and DecStation 5000's (but not DecStation 3100's which use 68-pin micro rather than the 50pin micro connector used on NeXT 040, Suns and DecStation 5000). The implication that a Sun SparcStation cable can be used with NeXT peripherals is generally false. NeXT themselves, and DEC, and nearly everyone else who makes SCSI peripherals, puts Telco-50 (centronics) connectors on their devices. Sun in their infinite wisdom uses DD50 which are quite different. Telco-50 is an approved connector type in the SCSI spec. Probably the original point was that the 50-pin microSCSI on the NeXT and Sun and some DecStations was different from the 68-pin microSCSI on the DecStation 5000. But this does not address the other end of the cable. 5.15 What fax modems will work with the NeXT? fax modem, on NeXT Most available modems of today, don't work for with the general fax driver available with NEXTSTEP. In this case you need to perchuse a commercial solution: 'NXFax'. There are demos available. The following information is pretty much old, and might probably be obsolete now: The following fax modems are currently available for the NeXT Computer: Manufacturer, Model Supplier, Type DoveFax for NeXT, Dove Computer, Class 1 HSD FaxMaster, HSD Microcomputer, Class 2* mix fax, i·link GmbH, Class 2** SupraFAXModem V.32bis, Supra Corp., Class 2 (requires DFax driver or NXFax driver) ZyXEL U-1496E/E+/S/S+, ZyXEL USA, Class 2 (requires NXFax driver) Telebit T3000 with fax option Telebit WorldBlazer with fax option (requires NXFax driver) Neuron 1414/1414+ with ZyXEL ROM upgrade (requires NXFax driver) (Neuron 1414 and Neuron 1414+ modems are relabelled ZyXEL modems. Contact ZyXEL USA for ROM upgrades. Neuron modems with 512K ROMs should upgrade their ROMs and ROM sockets to 1 Mb ROMs. People with 1Mb ROMs should just order the new ROMs.) (*) Note that the Class 2 is not yet approved; it is still out for ballot, after having failed in an October 1990 round. The Abaton InterFax 24/96 NX driver supports Class 2 as it was in that draft; there are expected to be very few changes prior to approval. (**) Note that mix fax works with both the October 1990 and October 1991 draft versions of Class 2, especially with the NeXT supplied Class 2 modem driver. Upgrading to an approved version of Class 2 would be a matter of just a software update (holds true for any forthcoming (class 3?) standard, for that matter). In order to use a fax modem with the NeXT Computer, a NeXT compatible fax driver must be available to operate the modem. Modem control procedures may be proprietary or conform to one of the following EIA/TIA standards: Class 1: CCITT T.30 session management and CCITT T.4 image data handling are controlled by the driver. Class 2*: CCITT T.30 session management and image data transport are handled by the modem. CCITT T.4 image data preparation and interpretation are controlled by the driver. Release 2.0 of the NeXT system software includes a Class 2 modem driver which will work with any fax modem which meets the EIA/TIA Asynchronous Facsimile Control standard. Other fax modems must supply a NeXT compatible driver. Note that there's a small bug in 2.0 (fixed in 2.1): a symbolic link is missing for the file Class2_Fax_Modem_Driver in /usr/lib/NextPrinter. The simple fix: create the link; it should reference Interfax_Fax_Modem_Driver, also in the /usr/lib/NextPrinter directory. An alternative workaround for Class 2, especially useful for novices: just use InterFax as the modem type in PrintManager, rather than Class 2*. After installing a fax modem using PrintManager one must repeat setting things in the Fax Options panel in order for them to be stored correctly. In particular, these include the Rings to Answer and Number of Times to Retry. This affects all fax modems being installed. If one uses illegal characters in the Modems Number field in the Fax Options when configuring an InterFax modem then the modem will not answer the phone. Legal characters are digits, spaces, and plus signs. This does not affect the Dove modem. Modems from the german vendor Dr. Neuhaus also work with the internal Fax-Driver. But only the FURY-series does. 5.16 How may I attach more than two serial ports to the NeXT? serial port, >2 on NeXT TTYDSP From Yrrid converts the DSP port into an additional serial port. Yrrid Incorporated 507 Monroe St. Chapel Hill, NC 27516 Voice: 919-968-7858 Fax: 919-968-7856 E-mail: yrrid@world.std.com Unitnet has a device, the SLAT, that will connect to the scsi bus. Uninet Peripherals, Inc. Voice: 714-263-4222 Fax: 714-263-4299 Central Data Corporation made the scsiTerminal Server family of products. However they stopped supporting NeXT hardwer. We are told that Central Data may consider the solling or giving of the driver source to an interested party. Phone: 217/359-8010 Toll-free: 800/482-0315 FAX: 217-359-6904 Email: info@cd.com support@cd.com sales@cd.com Also, one can use an IP terminal server. In a non-Internet environment, inexpensive terminal servers, which don't control access to the network securely, can be used. If your network is an Internet subnet, you must use a terminal server that controls either: (1) who can log into the terminal server, or (2) which machines the terminal server will access. These tend to be more expensive (around $250/port, but in 8-port increments), but it may be quite economical means of sharing ports among many NeXTs (or other computers) on the network. Particularly if one has a NeXT network, an Ethernet terminal server may be the way to go. One that supports Linemode Telnet (such as the Xylogics Annex III) will offer the best performance. 5.17 What is the best and/or cheapest way to connect a NeXT to a thick Ethernet? Ethernet, thick There are many possible solutions. For example, here are three: * The University of Waterloo (Audio Research Group) uses an old door-stop PC XT clone with two Western Digital cards (WD8003E Ethercard Plus, $250 CDN each; you should be able to get them for under $200 (US$)) running Vance Morrison's PCRoute (available from accuvax.nwu.edu). You will also need a thickwire transceiver and a drop cable (about $300). In addition, you will need Internet addresses for the NeXT and both PC Ethernet cards (and a subnet address). The documentation for PCRoute contains quite a bit of information on the performance of this setup. This solution requires two subnets. There is another program called PCbridge that allows the machines on the thin and thick wires to be part of the same subnet. This product also does packet filtering, so that packets destined to machines on the same side of the net do not cross over. * Cabletron sells a MR-2000C Singleport Repeater for $695 that does exactly what you need minus drop cable and transceiver. Their number is (408) 441-9900. * The march 1992 INMAC networking and connectivity products catalog lists thicknet to thinnet converters. Product number Z903071 price $445. Claims full ieee 802.3 compatibility and diagnostic LED's. * NuData (908)-842-5757 (USA) sells AUI10 base-T boxes for about $149. 5.18 How can I connect my NeXT to the telephone line and use it like an answering Machine? answering machine A company that is selling both hardware and software to allow you to do this: SES Computing 13206 Jenner Lane Austin, Texas 78729 Voice: (512) 219-9468 (Demo system number) i.link, a european company, has a combined data/fax modem and telephone answering machine. It uses the DSP port and is implemented mainly in software on the DSP with a little bit of hardware to interface to the phone line. i.link GmbH Nollendorfstrasse 11-12 D-1000 Berlin 30 Germany Tel: +49 30 216 20 48 Fax: +49 30 215 82 74 E-mail: info@ilink.de 5.19 What color monitors can I use with the Color NeXT machines? monitor, color The important specs for the color monitor are: Horz Scan Rate: 61 KHz Vertical Scan Rate: 68 Hz Resolution: 1280x1024 (NeXT uses 1120x832) NON-INTERLACED Displays may require alignment to adjust for the scan rate of NeXT machines. The Nanao T560i 17" color display has been used with NeXTstation Color machines, and seems to work well. Some larger NEC displays have also worked. 5.20 Where can I get 13W3 to BNC adapters to connect third party color monitors? 13W3 to BNC BNC to 13W3 You can get them from:NeXT/Bell Atlantic: part number S4025. NuData in New Jersey carries 13W3 female to 4 BNC male connectors. The price is about $100. NuData Voice: 908-842-5757 DISCLAIMER: I take no responsibility for the following. If you can source the bits yourself here's how it's built. 1 female 13W3 connector 3 Male BNC connectors 3 mini coax ie. the pins to the coaxial are male and the regular pins are female. Looks like this. . o o o o o . . 13W3 FEMALE A1 o o o o o A2 A3 | | | | | | | | | Red Green Blue 3 BNC's That's the coax part. The outer shielding of the coax's are grounded on both pin 10 and the case. 5.21 How may I attach Centronics or 16 bit wide parallel ports to the NeXT? centronics, NeXT parallel port, NeXT Uninet has devices, the SLAT-2 and the SLAT-DRV11, that will connect to the scsi bus. Uninet Peripherals, Inc. Voice: 714-263-4222 Fax: 714-263-4299 zardoz!sales@ics.uci.edu or uunet!ucivax!zardoz!sales 5.22 Why does an unused serial port consume cpu? serial port, cpu power usage Perhaps you've got a (probably fairly long) unshielded serial cable attached to it, with either nothing at the other end or a powered-off device at the other end. EE's call this an antenna. It's probably picking up most of the radio stations in your area, which the serial chip is interpreting as a continuous stream of garbage bytes, which it feeds to getty, which tries to interpret them as login attempts. How do you avoid this problem? * leave the device at the other end switched on (even when it's not transmitting, it will assert a voltage that overrides the noise) * unplug the cable from the next when you're not using it * use 'kill -STOP' & 'kill -CONT' to stop and resume the getty process as needed * buy an adequately shielded serial cable 5.23 How to adjust MegaPixel Display brightness and focus? brightness, MegaPixel focus, MegaPixel Adjust it using the following information. From: Charles William Swiger I have adjusted several monitors with no problems, but make sure you know what you are doing before opening anything. I expressly disclaim responsibility for any ill results that may occur. In order to adjust NeXT's MegaPixel display (called 'the monitor' hereafter), you'll need (a) the NeXTtool (or a 3mm Allen wrench), (b) a plastic adjustment tool (preferred) or a thin bladed screwdriver, and possibly (c) a Phillips-head screwdriver. (NB: A similar procedure will work for color monitors, but you should either know what you're doing or you'll probably be better off letting a pro deal with it.) Turn off the computer. Disconnect all cables to the monitor. Look at the back of the monitor. There will be 4 screws there; use the NeXTtool (or Allen wrench) to remove them. Remove the plastic back of the monitor and put it out of your way. Reconnect the cables and turn the computer back on. As the machine powers up, examine the back of the monitor. You'll see a metallic box (usually silver, though some are black) surrounding the monitor's vitals. This protects you against the dangerous voltages inside, and also insulates the monitor from electromagnetic noise. On the back of this box are several holes for performing adjustments. There are two focus controls (labeled 'focus' and 'dynamic focus'), a brightness control (labeled 'brightness' or possibly 'black level') and several others that adjust various things like screen size and position. Depending on the exact placement of the controls on the circuit board of your specific monitor, some of these controls may be difficult (or impossible) to adjust from the back. If this is the case, I will describe what's necessary below. Otherwise, adjust the appropriate controls using either an adjustment tool or a screwdriver. Be warned that a screwdriver probably will cause some interesting video effects when it enters the case. Ignore this the best you can, or find a plastic adjustment tool, which is what you *really* should be using anyway. Using a flashlight will help you see into the hole so that you can align the business end of the tool correctly. Focus and position controls are fairly obvious. Adjust them slowly until you're happy with the results. Don't muck with anything you don't need to; the factory settings are usually pretty decent. To correctly adjust the brightness, follow this procedure: Turn the brightness of the monitor all the way down using the keyboard. Adjust the brightness control on the back of the monitor until a barely noticeable picture forms. Then turn the brightness down a little so this picture disappears completely. Check that you can get adequate brightness by using the keyboard to brighten the screen. If the display isn't bright enough, adjust the brightness control on the rear of the monitor high enough so that the monitor display is adequate. Note that you won't be able to dim the screen completely from the keyboard...sorry. Once you're finished, shut down the computer, take off the cables, reattach the back of the monitor, and reconnect the cables. You're done. If the control you need to adjust proves to be difficult, you may need to enter the metal case. This happened on one monitor's focus control and another's brightness. WARNING: THE VOLTAGES INSIDE THE MONITOR'S CASE ARE VERY DANGEROUS, EVEN WHEN THE MONITOR IS OFF. BE VERY CAREFUL, OR YOU CAN SERIOUSLY INJURE OR EVEN KILL YOURSELF. DO NOT PERFORM THE NEXT INSTRUCTIONS UNLESS YOU ARE CONFIDENT THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. You'll have to power off the computer again, and disconnect the cables. Looking at the monitor from the back, notice a section of metallic shielding on the right side of the metal box that extends to the picture tube. This is where the flyback transformer is connected. It shields a wire that is charged to about 25,000 V. WARNING: DO NOT TOUCH THIS WIRE, IT CAN SHOCK YOU THROUGH ITS INSULATION. Being very careful of this, remove the metal case by unscrewing the Philip's head screws that hold the case on. Don't touch the screws that hold the picture tube into the front of the monitor's case. Once you've gotten the metal box off, reconnect the cables. Figure out what control you're going to adjust, and make sure that you can do so without touching anything else inside. Again, *watch out* for the wire that connects to the picture tube on the right side. Power up the computer. I recommend that you use only one hand to make the adjustment, and that your other hand be placed in your pocket (or similar equivalent, if you're wearing clothes lacking pockets). This precaution reduces the chances that you'll make a short circuit between one hand, your heart, and the other hand --- a good idea. Perform the necessary adjustment(s), being very careful not to touch anything inside. Then shut down and reassemble the monitor, following the directions given above. Hopefully, these instructions will prove useful. Once again, please be very careful...I don't want your death and/or injury on my conscience (or a lawsuit, for that matter, either :-) 5.24 I want to emulate a macintosh, how? MacIntosh, emulation emulation, MacIntosh There is a nice way to run macintosh-software on your original black hardware. It works fine with dual-headed cubes and is optimized for the Apple OS - Version 7.5. To get further information about daydream, please contact: QUIX Computerware AG 011-41-41-440-88-28 9 hour differential Luzernerstr.10 6030 Ebikon Switzerland Next software - 011-41-41-34-86-80 quix@applelink.apple.com There is another solution, completely in software: 'Executor' from Ardi does the job, too. (http://www.ardi.com/ 5.25 My NeXT laser printer fails to fully eject the sheet - how to fix? printer, eject, NeXT laser NeXT laser, eject paper Fix it as follows. If you continually get messages like, "sorry, the printer is jammed" and you have to pull each page out the last inch, you probably need to replace the 14 tooth gear in the output stage(fuse ass'y). You can see this gear before you disassemble the printer, so that is a good first step. Then read these instructions all the way through and see if you want to attempt it. Next recommends replacing the entire fuse ass'y ( big bucks) if the gear is damaged, but Chenesko, Inc., of Ronkonkoma, NY sells the gears for $2.31. The part number is RS1-0132. They recommended I also replace the 20 tooth gear, number RS1-0116, but I don't know if it is really necessary. Their phone number is 800-221-3516. PartsNow is also selling laserprint replacement parts. Their part number for the a replacement roller part is RA1-84489-000 000. You might contact them for further details. To examine your gear, open the rear (delivery ) door and undo the screw attaching the strap that keeps the door from opening down all the way. The gear is on the side nearest the power input to the printer. There are two gears on the part of the delivery ass'y that swings down. The suspect gear engages the top one, but is mounted on the fixed portion of the fuse. Ours had several teeth missing and/or damaged. To get the gear off you have to remove the fuse ass'y. To remove the fuse you must open the printer lid fully, so it is straight up. To open the lid fully you must remove the case. To remove the case you must remove the plastic cover on the lid. Are you getting the idea now? This will be a lot of fun, and take most of the afternoon. I hope you have a spacious, well-lit area, because there are a lot of screws, and a lot of them are painted black, so they are hard to see when you drop them, unless you drop them inside of the printer, where you might NEVER see them again. Fortunately, as with all computer equipment, they seem to put lots of extras in, so just make sure there aren't any where they might do damage, like short out the mega KILOVOLT corona power supply, or grind into the REGISTRATION rollers. You do want your printouts to be straight, don't you? So, if you're ready, here we go. * PREPARATION Most mere mortals will want to power down everything and disconnect the cables, etc. Remove the cartridge and paper trays, etc. * REMOVE THE LID COVER open the lid and remove 3 screws. They DO NOT have any red paint on them. * REMOVE THE BACK DOOR there is one screw that holds the strap. When you can swing it clear down, you can squeeze the hinges together and remove the door. * REMOVE THE CASE There are maybe seven screws that hold the case on. Four are right on top. Two are just inside the rear door area. Two are down inside where you store that green cleaning tool. 4 + 2 + 2 = 7, right? Say, who was the last guy that worked on this printer anyway? The case has to be convinced that you really need to remove it, even when it is loose and all the screws are out. * REMOVE THE FUSE ASS'Y You will need a PHILLIPS screwdriver for this, as with the previous steps. But you will need a LONG one this time. Three of the screws are pretty easy to find. Just study the lower part of the fuse, as it is screwed onto the bottom case. Two of the screws are inside. One is under the lid next to the gears, the other near the green cleaning tool. On the outside, in back, there is one on each side. One is under the white wires that connect the fuse to the 10 AMP circuit breaker, which is pretty near that gear, and close to the power input. Unplug that cable. Then remove the small black crew that holds the black plastic gear cover so you will have better access to the last screw. Then you will have to wrestle the fuse out the back of the printer. Be careful with it. * DISASSEMBLE THE FUSE There are several screws and a spring. It's not too hard to take apart. You can see the gear, so you just have to take off the covers on that end of the ass'y to get to it. I should caution you that I had trouble putting them back on, because they have funny shapes and don't make a lot of sense. Plus I was tired, so I went home, ate dinner, played with the dog, went to bed, got up and ate breakfast before I put it back together. You might want to label some parts, make some drawings, etc. to reassure yourself that you can put the parts back just like they were. * REMOVE THE GEAR You can remove the gear pretty easily with a small screwdriver by unspringing the "E"-ring that holds it on the shaft. Try not to bend the e-ring. * PUT EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER Sorry, I can't help you with this part (HA HA!) I told you you should read the instructions first. Maybe you should buy a new printer, or try to attach some third party printer via the serial port! Well, if you got this far I hope you dropped little crumbs of bread so you can find your way back. I try to save all the little screws by putting them back in the holes they came from, or putting them in some small container. You might clean some of the gears or the paper path while you have it open. You can also install a new OZONE filter. Remember OZONE is hazardous to your health, so you don't want to inhale it. DISCLAIMER: BE CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS PROCEDURE. THERE ARE DANGEROUS VOLTAGES PRESENT, AND EVEN IF YOU ARE TOO CHICKEN TO WORK ON IT POWERED UP, YOU COULD CUT YOURSELF, OR DROP THE WHOLE THING ON YOUR FOOT, THUS VOIDING THE WARRANTY. ALSO, THE PRINTER WONÂT WORK WITHOUT THE COVERS, BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO SECRET SWITCHES THAT INFORM THE NEXT CPU THAT SOMEONE "IS FOOLING AROUND WITH THE PRINTER AGAIN." Yet another update to reflect that Jacob Gore received gears for an Apple Laserwriter from Chenesko, which are similar enough to work, but with some modification.Also, if the original gear is in fair condition, it can be reversed on the shaft until a replacement is ordered. 5.26 What are the NeXT mouse connections? mouse, connector Read the following instruction. Thanks to Alvin Austin (austin@cs.USask.Ca) I have the information I need on the NeXT mouse connections. Pin Function 1 +5v 2 X Encoder Phase A 3 X Encoder Phase B 4 Y Encoder Phase A 5 Y Encoder Phase B 6 Right Button 7 Left Button 8 Ground 5.27 What type of memory may be installed in a NeXT? References: NeXTanswers' hardware.620, 92_spring_bulletin "Announcing NeXTstation Turbo and NeXTcube Turbo" NeXT Computer (68030-25MHz/68040-25MHz), NeXTcube (68040-25MHz): Number SIMM slots: 16 SIMM group size: 4 SIMM type: 30-pin low profile> SIMM access rating: 100 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4 MB (1x8/1x9, 4x8/4x9) Maximum RAM: 64 MB The low-profile vertically mounted 4 MB SIMMs are easier to install in the NeXTcube than the horizontally mounted 4 MB SIMMs because of the small height clearance above the SIMM slots. It is possible to install the horizontally mounted 4 MB SIMMs, but you will be required to slide the CPU board and the center tower in simultaneously. Parity (9-bit) SIMMs can be used in both 68030 and 68040 NeXT machines, but should not be mixed with non-parity SIMMs. Only 68040 boards with ROM levels of 2.2 (v63) and higher can use the parity memory to detect parity errors. It is OK to mix parity and non-parity memory, but the system will not boot unattended. Cubes with early boot ROMs will not work with 4 Mb parity ram, unless at least 3 banks are used. The system gives an exception error on power up. The fix is to get a new boot rom from Next. You can pay $30, or you may be able to squawk and get one for free. I have found Next to be pretty responsive, once I find the right person. The correct version is v66 which was the last or final rev for this series of 040 boards. This version also fixed the problem in the second paragraph. NeXTdimension boards (i860): Number SIMM slots: 8 SIMM group size: 4 SIMM type: 72-pin SIMM access rating: 80 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4, 8 MB (256Kx32, 1Mx32, 2Mx32) Maximum RAM: 64 MB (32 MB official NeXT) NeXT didn't officially bless the use of 8 MB SIMMs, but they seem to fit and work. NeXTstations (68040-25MHz) serial numbers below ABB 002 6300: Number SIMM slots: 8 SIMM group size: 4 SIMM type: 30-pin SIMM access rating: 100 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4 MB (1x8/1x9, 4x8/4x9) Maximum RAM: 32 MB Faster SIMMS (70/80 ns) don't make the memory system work any faster than the 100 ns units. NeXTstation Color (68040-25MHz): Number SIMM slots: 8 SIMM group size: 2 SIMM type: 72-pin SIMM access rating: 80 ns5 SIMM capacity: 1, 4 MB (256Kx32/256Kx36, 1Mx32/1Mx36) Maximum RAM: 32 MB NeXTcube Turbo (68040-33MHz), NeXTstation Turbo (68040-33MHz), NeXTstation Color Turbo (68040-33MHz), NeXTstations (68040-25MHz) serial numbers above ABB 002 6300: Number SIMM slots: 4 SIMM group size: 2 SIMM type: 72-pin SIMM access rating: 70/100 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4 ,8, 16, 32 MB (256Kx32/256Kx36, 1Mx32/1Mx36) Maximum RAM: 128 MB For maximum performance use 70 ns SIMMs: SIMMs rated at 80 or 100 ns will be detected upon powerup and the memory system clock slowed to 100 ns. Faster RAM than 70 ns won't give you a speed increase anymore. In fact it could slow things down again, because some hardware drives 60 ns RAM as 100 ns RAM. NeXT manufacturing introduced the new 25 MHz NeXTstation CPU board into production in late June '92. To verify which SIMM type your machine uses, check the system's memory configuration. You can do this by using the ROM monitor©s print memory configuration command m. Start with your machine powered down. Press the Power key to power on. As soon as the message ªTesting system...º disappears, press command-command-tilde ( on the numeric keyboard). Under these circumstances, this will access the ROM monitor. In the ROM monitor, type m and press return. Turbo-designed boardsÐincluding new 25 MHz NeXTstations and all Turbo systemsÐwill return messages reporting the memory configuration contained in four sockets (sockets 0 -3); old 25 MHz boards will return messages for more than four sockets (usually 8). You can tell a Turbo-designed board, and the accompanying 72 pin, 70 nanosecond SIMMs, by the fact it only reports information for only four sockets. The memory system has programmable memory timing such that the number of processor clocks needed to access a given amount of data can be tailored to the speed of the memory installed. 70 ns memory is just enough faster than 80 ns memory to allow the cpu to access the data with fewer clock cycles. This improves memory system performance. "70 ns" memory is faster than "80 ns" memory in many parameters other than just RAS access time. The faster CAS access time in particular allows the memory system to respond quicker to burst (16 bytes) bus transfers. 5.28 What is the NeXT SIMM tool? SIMM Tool The tool came with 68040 upgrade kits for NeXTcubes. It really makes removing SIMMs easy. It looks like a dental tool: about six inches long with a 1/2" long head offset at 90 degrees. To remove SIMMs, you slip the head into the hole on one side of the SIMM, rest the head on the SIMM socket next to the SIMM you are pulling, and pivot the tool back, using the simple fulcrum to gently pry the SIMM up about 1/8" from the socket on that side. Repeat on the other side, and the SIMM can be then removed by hand. 5.29 Where can I purchase a NeXT machine? Purchase, NeXT NeXT, purchase NeXT discontinued manufacturing hardware in Feb, 1993. Used systems are often advertised in comp.sys.next.marketplace. 5.30 Where to obtain hardware service? service, hardware hardware, service Hardware service can be obtained through the following firms: USA hardware service has been purchased by Bell Atlantic. They will be supporting the Authorized Service Centers and are selling extended warranty contracts. Decision One Voice: 800 499 6398, or 800 848 NeXT Fax: 510 732 3078 For Europe, please contact: SORBUS 40549 Duesseldorf Willstaetter Strasze 13 5.31 What types of NeXT machines were manufactured? NeXT, types of cube section There are two packages: a cube, and a station. * NeXTcube systems: + 68030-25 2-bit grayscale (NeXT Computer) + 68040-25 2-bit grayscale (NeXTcube) + 68040-33 2-bit grayscale (NeXTcube Turbo) + NeXTdimension board adds 32-bit color (i860) to any of above systems Cube systems can use any of the boards. With hacks, multiple independent CPU boards can run in one cube. NeXT Computer systems have room for 2 full-height 5.25" internal devices with a wide slot for an Optical Disk drive(s) in either position. NeXTcube systems also have room for 2 full-height 5.25" internal devices with a wide slot for an Optical Disk drive in the lower position, but have additional mounting holes for 1/2-height devices, and have a floppy slot at the top position. * NeXTstation systems: + 68040-25 2-bit grayscale (NeXTstation) + 68040-33 2-bit grayscale (NeXTstation Turbo) + 68040-25 16-bit color (NeXTstation Color) + 68040-33 16-bit color (NeXTstation Color Turbo) NeXTstation systems have room for two 1/2-height 3.5" devices, with a floppy slot at the side. 5.32 What can be done about older 030 NeXT cubes that have a fan that turns in the "wrong" direction? fan, running wrong The fan on older 030 NeXTs cubes sucks air out of the back of the cube which means that it draws unfiltered air in through the optical disk on the front of the cube. This causes optical disks to succumb to dust must sooner than cubes with the new-style fan which turns in the opposite direction. NeXT has apparently reversed their decision regarding fan reversal in the case of machines that have been upgraded to 040 processor boards. It is now considered okay to reverse the direction of fans in these machines. If you have many third-party cards installed in your cube or an older processor board, you may wish to consider not reversing fan direction (overheating could become a problem). In any case, do not reverse the fan's polarity, only reverse the fan assembly itself. Perhaps the best solution is obtain the cleaning kit and OD filter from NeXT. 5.33 Can I connect SONY MPX-111N to my 68030 NeXT Computer? SONY MPX-111N The SONY MPX-111N internal 2.88 MB floppy drive which was shipped with all the 68040 NeXT machines is not a SCSI device, therefore there is no way of connecting that particular drive internally on a 68030 system. 5.34 Why does the OD continually spin up and spin down? OD, spinning A big problem with the Canon optical drives is that air flows through the drive to cool it. Dust accumulates inside the drive causing it to fail with the continuous spin-up spin-down syndrome. NeXT as part of it's 040 upgrades provided a dust filter to prevent this. If your drive has this problem it usually can be fixed simply by cleaning out dust from the drive. NeXT sold a cleaning kit for both the drives and the optical disks. 5.35 How many colors can NeXT machines display? NeXT, colors The monochrome machines can display 4 gray levels. You can use color apps on a monochrome machine, they will converted into monochrome images and dithered accordingly. Color NeXTstations can combine 4 bits of red, green and blue primaries for a total of 4096 pure colors. The imaging functions dither the image to produce intermediate colors. NeXTdimension can combine 8 bits of red, green and blue for 16,777,216. There are not 16 million points on the display so all can not be displayed at once. Further display technology limits the usable color space. None of the NeXT products support color look up tables where the user can define their own color palette on a per window basis. This feature is useful for displaying images which have adaptive lookup tables, and display pure grayscale images on the color NeXTstation. On the NeXTdimension images can be converted to full 24 bit representation. 5.36 Why is my machine so slow when I run the monochrome and NeXTdimension displays? speed, display display, speed drops There is a bug with the window system in which if you select the monochrome display as your primary display the server will be much much slower. The solution for those wishing to use both displays is to select the color (NeXTdimension) display as the primary display. The most optimal configuration at present with the NeXTdimension is to run only the color display. 5.37 Where to obtain replacement mouse parts? mouse, parts From: jdavidso@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu For those who have need of a new button in their mouse, and don't want to pay for the whole mouse when it is only the button that has gone bad, we have recently discovered a satisfactory replacement for the Omron switch. It is in the Digikey catalog, # 931, Jan-Feb 1993, page 141, under Cherry switches D4, DG, and DH series. Digikey part # CH164-ND, Cherry part # DG1C-B1AA. We ordered one of these, and just received it today. Tried it out, and it seems to be working flawlessly so far. It is also possible to replace mouse buttons from a two button mouse with mouse buttons of the three button mice. 5.38 Where to obtain extra batteries? battery, purchase purchase, battery Battery part number: BR 2/3A 3V Lithium Battery (Panasonic) Source: Engineered Assemblies & Components Corporation 5204 Green's Dairy Road Raleigh, NC 27604 Phone: 919-790-9700 (ask for Debra) 5.39 How to convert a Turbo system to use ADB? ADB, turbo system If ADB equipment are used with older NeXT systems they won't work properly. Here are the ADB requirements: * A Turbo computer. * CPU eprom version 74. * New revision computer to soundbox/monitor cable. The part number is molded at both ends of the connector: Cable NEW OLD (Non ADB) NeXTcube 4534 150 NeXTstation 4535 1532 NeXTstation color 4536 2286 * New revision monitor which uses a vertical scan rate of 72hz instead of 68hz, except on NeXTdimension systems color monitor stays 68hz. Monitor NEW (72hz) OLD (68hz) 17" mono ACX (N4000b) AAA (N4000a \& N4000) 17" color ADF (N4006) ABG (N4001) 21" color ADB (N4005a) ABH (N4005) * ADB soundbox for color systems. S/N prefix ADD instead of ABN. 5.40 68030 board in the same NeXTcube as a 68040 board? DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE IS NOT SUPPORTED BY NEXT, INC. AND WILL DEFINITELY VOID THE WARRANTY ON YOUR NEXT COMPUTER. FOLLOW IT AT YOUR OWN RISK. I DISCLAIM ALL RESPONSIBILITIES FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY NEGLIGENCE IN FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURE. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THE PROCEDURE WILL WORK ON ALL VERSIONS(?) OF THE NEXT CUBE HARDWARE. ALL I KNOW IS THAT IT WORKED ON THE NEXT CUBE I WAS WORKING ON!!!! SO BEWARE. Here we go! I'll first provide a description of the hardware I was using and comment on what I accomplished and how I got the information on how to do it! The hardware included a NeXT cube with 660 MB drive, OD, etc., a 68040 upgrade board, and a 68030 motherboard. I successfully installed both the 68040 and 68030 boards on a SINGLE NeXT cube and linked them together through their ethernet ports. The 68040 was configured as a boot server and the 68030 was used as its client (booting off the network for lack of an additional hard drive). The procedure reconfigures slot #2 on the cube's back-plane as slot #0. This provides two slots configured as #0, required for booting the two motherboards. Once I determined what the slot pin-outs were (thanks to my good friend John Chmielewski), it was a matter of time before the two boards happily co-existed. The procedure: 1. First, follow the procedure on the NeXT User's Reference manual for removing the system board (Appendix C: Opening the Cube, page 291 of the 2.0 manual). 2. Using the NeXT supplied screwdriver, remove the two screws that attach the power-supply housing to the cube (the screws are located on the lower part of the housing) and gently pull the housing out. Set it aside in a safe place (away from kids and nosey friends!) 3. Remove the two plastic grooved plates (used to slide the system boards in) at each side of the inside bottom of the cube. (For each plate, lift the side closest to the rear opening and gently pull them out). Set them aside. 4. Using the NeXT tool, remove three screws holding the back-plane to the cube and then take the back-plane out of the cube. Let the cube rest for a while. Inspect the back-plane. You will see five bus slots (four vertical and one horizontal). The horizontal slot connects the back-plane to the power supply housing. We're only interested in the four vertical slots. From the factory these slots are configured as 6, 2, 0, and 4 (starting from the left and going right with the horizontal slot at the bottom). The system board connects to slot #0 (which you've probably noticed). Each slot contains three columns of 32 pins. Following is an ASCII representation of one of the slots: x y z C B A o-o o 32 . . . o-o o 31 . . . o-o o 30 . . . o-o o 29 . . . 28 . . . . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . ...where x, y, and z are labeled GND, SID, and VCC, respectively. The GND, SID, and VCC "holes" are used to configure the slot number using simple binary encoding, where GND is logical zero, VCC is logical one, and SID (for Slot-ID I guess) determines the current bit state (one or zero). Notice the four rows of GND, SID, VCC triads; each row is equivalent to one bit position in the slot number, the bottom row bit position 0, the top row bit position 3. This gives a total of four bit positions, or 16 possible slot numbers. To encode a slot number, you need to connect an SID row to its corresponding GND or VCC row. For example, the diagram below shows the configuration of the slots in my cube's back-plane (you'll have to look very closely to see the actual connections): SLOT 6 SLOT 2 SLOT 0 SLOT 4 BIT 3: o-o o o-o o o-o o o-o o BIT 2: o o-o o-o o o-o o o o-o BIT 1: o o-o * o o-o * o-o o o-o o BIT 0: o-o o o-o o o-o o o-o o 5. To reconfigure slot 2 as slot 0, cut the trace between SID and VCC for bit position 1 (see * o o-o * above) and connect SID to GND on the same row. I used the SIMM removal tool supplied by NeXT in the 040 upgrade (talk about multi-purpose) to cut the trace! Very gently, scrape the solder off between the two holes. Take a paperclip, shape it to fit between the holes in SID and GND, and trim it down to an even 1/4 inch (perfect fit)! That's all there is to it. If for some reason you ever want to revert to slot 2, just remove the paperclip from GND-SID and reconnect it to SID-VCC. 6. Now put the cube back together. First, re-install the back-plane using its three connecting screws, then snap on the plastic plates, and finally insert the power-supply housing and secure with its two screws. At this point the cube is ready to take on the two system boards (it is up to you to determine where/how you want to use the two boards; I'll explain how I used mine) ... 7. I installed the 68040 in the original slot 0 and the 68030 in the reconfigured slot 0 (previously slot 2). The 68040 was used as the main processor board. I connected the 660 MB drive, the OD, and the monitor to it. NOTE: Before beginning the procedure, I went into the NeXT Monitor on the 68030 and disabled the Sound out, SCSI tests and verbose test mode and enabled serial port A as a console terminal. I also made "en" the default boot device. I setup the 68040 as a boot server and taught it about the 68030 (which took some time in getting it setup properly). 8. I connected the 68040 to the 68030 using a thin-ethernet cable and I booted. First thing I noticed was that the 030 timed-out a couple of times waiting for the 040 to tell it to boot. But after the 040 was up, the 030 booted nicely. That's all folks. Hope all this made some sense and people find it useful. Comments: * To power off the cube, I have to first shutdown the 030 (I run "halt -p" as root from a telnet connection and wait for the 030 to go down), and I then power-down the 040. If you shut down the 040 before the 030, you'll have to pull the power plug to turn the machine off. The cube will not power off if either of the two boards is providing a load to the power-supply. * Remember, I've only performed this procedure on one system. I do not know what will happen on your system. So make sure you plan ahead what your going to do and that you understand the procedure. * I don't know what problems may arise when you add a board that uses the NeXTbus, such as the NeXTdimension, or how it will behave. If someone is courageous enough to perform the procedure and installs another board, please post your results to the net. Update: To clear up some misunderstandings with the settings in the "p" command of the NeXT monitor (these settings are only required for the system board that doesn't have the NeXT display monitor connected): 1. Sound out test must be "no"; the boot process will not proceed if the monitor isn't connected to the board and this is set to "yes" (the sound out tests will fail, aborting the boot procedure). 2. SCSI tests should be "no" if you don't have SCSI devices attached to the board (SCSI tests will fail otherwise, aborting the boot procedure). 3. Verbose test mode must be "no" for booting from the network. If set to "yes", the boot process will timeout waiting for a BOOTP and you'll be left in the monitor with no means of restarting the board (except pulling the power plug)! This is probably true also for booting from an OD that hasn't been inserted (assuming the OD was attached to the board). 4. Allow serial port A as alternate console if you want to view the boot process (for problems and peace-of-mind). 5. Other settings were not modified from their factory defaults or had no effect on the procedure. There is also a way in using 2 boards plus NeXTDimension board in one Cube. I've run my "screw with the backplane trick" cube with : | <empty> | 32MB-ND | | 64MB-040 | 40MB-030 | without any problems. Using the od got the system warm, but never had a problem. The cool part was having the printer on the 030. One day I tried to dump an 040 into the 030 position, but I couldn't get it to boot. I played for a couple minutes, but put the 030 back in and went on with life... 5.41 How to expand DSP memory? memory, DSP DSP, memory The Speech Recognition Lab at San Francisco State University has developed a DSP memory expansion board for the NeXT computer that provides the maximum memory supported by the DSP56001 processor. We are now offering this board to those whose are interested in high-performance custom DSP development. * The board is a 576KB DSP expansion memory board organized as three non-overlapping 192KB banks: X-data, Y-data and Program. The board uses relatively fast ( * The board is a high-quality, 4-layer board, open-circuit tested prior to assembly. It fits into the DSP memory daughterboard slot on all NeXT machines. * The price will be $600. Please let us know if you are interested. Delivery will be in about 3-4 weeks. * Contact Tom Holton (th@ernie.sfsu.edu). E-mail is preferred. The address is: Tom Holton Division of Engineering San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA 94132 415 338 1529 (phone) 415 338 0525 (fax) NOTE: Because we've organized our memory as three separate (non-overlapping) banks (X, Y and P) of 192KB apiece, none of the DSP memory image functionality provided by NeXT with its existing 8K base configuration, or its 96KB DSP expansion module is supported. While we cannot guarantee that every existing DSP application ever written will be plug-and-play compatible with our DSP expansion memory, we are not aware of any existing applications that use the image functionality. The MusicKit, and demo programs that use the DSP, such as Mandlebrot and ScorePlayer, work fine with our memory module. 5.42 How to boot a NeXT without a monitor? The procedure is to just touch pins 6 and GND on the DB-19 NeXT monitor out with a 470 Ohm resistor (450 is the actual resistance, but 470 ohms is more commonly found in resistors). Pin 6 is the power sense, and pins 13-19 (and the DB shell) are the GND. Just say "pin 19", it may be easier. There's a pinout diagram of the DB-19 in the NeXT Users Reference Manual. If you have an old Cube, the power supply needs to have more power drawn from it than an 030 (and 040?) board uses to stay on. So: On the DB-19, attach a Power Resistor (20 Ohm, at least 20 Watt) between pins 12 and GND. (Pin 12 is -12V, pin 13 works well for GND). Then just "touch" the 470 ohm resistor as described above, and you're set. The 20 Ohm resistor draws an old 030 running without monitor in an old CUBE), but it isn't necessary - just don't touch it (*HOT!* ;-) To power off, type "halt -p" as root on the machine (either through a terminal connected to port A, or over the ethernet connection). Also, you have to have the Rom Monitor settings done correctly. The important ones are: Wait until keypress? N Sound out tests? N Port A as alternate Console? Y (if you have one, it's nice) Verbose mode? N (I think this may need to be N to work, don't r emember). 5.43 Where can I get black spray paint for my NeXT? Black, spray paint paint, black spray You can get black spray from the following address. Sprayon Paint Omni-Packblend 4Next-Black (icon black) LAV-16 25216 Call 1-800-777-2966 for the name of a dealer near you. 5.44 What makes aged NeXT monitors dim? monitor, dim The cause of the dimming monitors is the CRT cathode wearing out. The most common type of CRT (and the type used in most NeXT monochrome monitors and all of the NeXT color monitors) uses what is called an oxide cathode. A thin coating of oxide is deposited on the cathode to allow the electronics which form the picture to get off the cathode easily. The oxide gradually boils off the cathode itself, and when the oxide is gone, the CRT goes dim. Typically, the oxide will last from 10,000 to 20,000 power on hours (screen savers don't help the cathode, they only prevent phosphor aging). Unfortunately, the black monochrome monitors fall into the short end of the life range thanks to Toshiba who made the CRT's. The aging is more noticeable in Unix machines because they tend to be left on. Note that there are about 8,000 hours in a year. If you leave your monitor on all the time, all oxide type CRTs will be dim in three years. The other type of CRT cathode is the I-cathode or dispenser type. This type of cathode is porous and continually brings new activation material to the surface. Its lifetime is 40,000 hours or more. The last of the NeXT monochrome monitors (N4000B) used this type of CRT and they don't go dim. There aren't many of that type around because NeXT quit the hardware business after producing only a few thousand. If you can get an N4000B monitor, you won't ever have to worry about a dim monitor. Many manufacturers are going to dispenser cathode type CRTs in their monitors with Panasonic leading the way. The best advice is to turn off the monitor when not in use. If that is impractical, try to purchase one with the long life cathode. Spherical Solutions (smg@orb.com) has a supply of new N4000B long life monitors for sale in either ADB or non-ADB configurations. If you need to repair or replace a monochrome monitor, that is by far the best type to use. If you read this far, you probably know more than you ever wanted to about CRT aging, but I hope this helps. 5.45 How to use two internal hard drives drives, two internal It is possible to fit a second internal hard drive in a NeXT slab, in addition to the floppy drive and the first hard drive. The second drive must be third height, or 1 inch high. There is no room for a half height device. Buy a bracket or make one out of sheet metal for the 1 inch high drive. On 25 MHz mono stations the SIMMs are smaller and the drive doesn't have to go all the way against the back wall. In this case, glue the bracket to the underside of the NextStation cover, centered from side t o side and as far to the back as possible. This is sufficient. On 25 MHz colorstations, however, one must file away a bit of the interior metal on the cover in order to glue the bracket fully to the rear of the cover. Once this modification is done, th e drive will clear the RAM when the cover is closed. Screw the drive into the bracket, with the power and SCSI plugs toward the right hand side of the NextStation so that the cables will reach. Go to your favorite computer store and get both a "dual int ernal SCSI bus cable" and a "dual internal SCSI power cable." Plug in the cables to both internal hard drives and close the cover. This was verified on both a 25 MHz mono and a 25 MHz color NextStation. No power or heating problems occurred. 6 WHITE (INTEL) HARDWARE 6.1 What about support for NeXT Computer specific hardware features such as the DSP? support, specific DSP, support support, DSP NeXT computers offer additional hardware support not commonly available for Intel systems. This includes the DSP. The DSP in a NeXT Computer is used for a variety of functions including ISDN support and real-time audio compression/de-compression. ISDN support for NEXTSTEP/Intel will be provided via an add-on PC card and ISDN adapter. Although the DSP programming feature is missing for NS3.3 on Intel, it is not necessary. The important SoundKit functions are rewritten to emulate an DSP on Intel, but this costs a lot of CPU time. 6.2 Do Multi-Architecture Binaries take a lot of extra disk space? MAB, disk space multi application binary, MAB The concept of NEXTSTEP binaries is different to other platforms. On NEXTSTEP only the real program is compiled and linked in a hardware specific manner. E.g. the GUI and the multilanguage support are usable on any platform running NEXTSTEP and will do so under OPENSTEP. Therefore the real binary part is sometimes really small. Anyway it might be a good choice to thin such a fat binary. NeXT ships tools for this purpose. Look at the manpages for lipo. If an application wasn't installed using the standard NeXT tool Installer, it might also be a good choice to look into the application drawer and delete other languages supported but not used by the application. This additional data is found in the different *.lproj subdirectories in the application's folder. To get there, activate the application's icon and select Open as directory from the Workspace's File menu item. 6.3 How difficult is it to recompile existing NeXT applications over to NEXTSTEP/Intel? compile, re Very easy. Most programs will simply recompile and run, or require few changes. We believe that any application that uses the standard development environment and Object kits provided by NeXT should simply compile and run. Only applications that use architecture specific features or data formats, will require additional time to port. Several developers have already ported applications to NEXTSTEP/Intel. Appsoft Draw simply recompiled and ran, Lighthouse Concurrence took 3 hours, other programs took 1/2 a day to 2 days, and this was all on a very early release of NEXTSTEP/Intel 3.1! Some applications just will refuse to compile, because they are still based on the old 2.0 headers etc. These applications are really rare now and may get ported very easily too, by changing the include path in your developer package. Other applications require additional header files and libraries to properly compile and link. These applications are mostly based on the MiscKit or MusicKit and other PD-Kits. You need to install these Kits first to compile these programs. With the shipping of OpenStep this might change, because it will be possible to produce shared libraries with the NeXT Developer package. This will enable you to not install the complete Kit, but only the shared library and will also reduce your binary noticeable. 6.4 When developing programs, are there any portability issues I should be aware of? portability Yes. As stated above, any applications that use the standard tools provided by the NEXTSTEP development environment, should just recompile and work. To make sure developers are aware of portability issues, NeXT is producing a guide to address source code portability between different architectures running NEXTSTEP. This guide is available in the online documentation to the NeXT Developer package. 6.5 What is the difference between the NEXTSTEP/Intel User Environment and Developer Environment? user vs. developer developer vs. user The NEXTSTEP/Intel User Environment consists of the entire NEXTSTEP 3.3 environment, minus the developer tools. The Developer Environment includes the developer tools such Interface builder, Project Builder, C compilers, Object Kits, example source code and developer documentation. Although it is possible to just get the latest GNU C compiler as a binary, you can not use it! This is because you won't get the standard libraries needed to produce NeXT applications neither the header files. Also it there is currently no third party compiler shipping. If you want to compile, you are forced to use the NeXT Developer package. The status of compiling a standard UNIX utility without NeXT's headers and just based on the supplied shared libraries is unknown. 6.6 If a specific I/O card is not supported by NeXT, can 3rd parties write drivers for NEXTSTEP/Intel? I/O driver Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel uses a newly developed object-oriented driver architecture that brings the benefits of object-orientation all the way down to the I/O card driver level. 6.7 How is NEXTSTEP/Intel installed? installation, Intel NEXTSTEP/Intel will come with a boot floppy and a CDROM. To install NEXTSTEP/Intel, the system boots from the floppy, and then installs the minimum NEXTSTEP environment from the CDROM (SCSI CDROM drive). The user may then chose from several optional packages depending on the available disk space and user requirements. 6.8 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on 386 machines? 386 Intel 386 No. NEXTSTEP/Intel uses several 486 specific features that enhance the performance of NEXTSTEP. NEXTSTEP/Intel will support any 486 with Coprocessor and up. 6.9 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the Cyrix 486SLC? 486SLC, Cyrix Cyrix, 486SLC NeXT states: No. The Cyrix chip not a true 486. several other users state: Yes. Slow performance, though. 6.10 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the future Intel Microprocessors in the x86 family? x86 Intel, x86 Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel will not only support them, but will take advantage of any performance enhancements available with future Intel CPU's, just as NeXT has taken advantage of the 486. 6.11 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on portable computers? portable computers Yes. Many portables and notebooks with 486 CPU's and sufficient system resources (>=8MB RAM and >=120MB hard disk space) are available. Since NEXTSTEP/Intel will support 640x480 VGA displays in grayscale, NEXTSTEP 486 can run on these systems. Do be aware that NEXTSTEP's user interface and applications were not designed for low-resolution screens, and consequently will impose limitations on the use of some applications. 6.12 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel be able to run MS-DOS and Windows programs? MS-DOS Windows MS-Windows Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel will support a DOS and Windows compatibility package. This software will allow DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1 programs to run within a NEXTSTEP window. Support will include DOS "Protected" mode and Windows 3.1. This package is called SoftPC and comes with every NEXTSTEP system. The software is not free with NEXTSTEP, you have to pay extra. Anyway you are not limited in a 30 day test phase when installing it. Windows 95 and Windows NT are not supported by the emulation software. 6.13 How will my DOS and Windows applications perform under NEXTSTEP/Intel? MS-DOS, performance Windows, performance MS-Windows, performance Very well. The DOS/Windows compatibility package for NEXTSTEP/Intel takes full advantage of the 486 microprocessor. Depending on system hardware configuration and type of DOS/Windows application, performance should vary between 386 and 486 native DOS/Windows performance on Pentium systems. In addition, to enhance the performance of Windows applications, a MS Windows specific Graphics Device Interface (GDI) driver which maps Microsoft Windows calls directly to the NEXTSTEP window server is part of the system. 6.14 Is the window I use to run Microsoft Windows applications resizable? Windows, size MS-Windwos, size Yes. You can set the Windows session to any size you wish up to the maximum screen size available to the NEXTSTEP/Intel system you are using. 6.15 Will this DOS/Windows compatibility system allow me to run several DOS programs at once? MS-DOS, multitasking Yes. Since NEXTSTEP/Intel is a multi-tasking, virtual memory operating environment, several DOS/Windows sessions can be run at once. Hey, did I say Windows? Yes you can do real Windows multitasking with SoftPC. 6.16 Can I cut and paste between DOS/Windows sessions and NEXTSTEP applications? cut&paste, Windows cut&paste, MS-DOS cut&paste, MS-Windows Yes. You can cut and paste text and graphics between DOS/Windows and NEXTSTEP applications. 6.17 Can I use both DOS and NEXTSTEP/Intel partitions on the same hard disk? partitions, NeXT and DOS multi OS setup OS, more than one Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel will support multiple operating systems on the same local hard disk. When the system boots, the user can chose to boot another operating system (such as DOS) or NEXTSTEP. If the local partition contains DOS, NEXTSTEP/Intel will be able to access the local DOS partition and read/write files to it, with the restriction on primary partitions only. Executive Summary: It is possible to install DOS, Windows NT with NTFS, and NEXTSTEP/Intel on the same disk, and select which partition is booted at boot time. I spent some time experimenting with a 200MB SCSI disk. I wanted to see if the following configuration would be possible: Partition 1 Primary DOS Partition 2 Extended DOS Partition 3 Windows NT NTFS Partition 4 NS/Intel 3.2 Since Windows NT requires at least 70MB for installation, and NS/Intel requires at least 120MB, there wasn't much room for DOS! Ultimately, I only tested a three partition system (DOS, NTFS, NS/Intel), but I have no reason to believe that the extended DOS wouldn't also work. The recipe is as follows: * Preparation. You need a bootable DOS floppy that has FORMAT.COM on it. You need another (blank) floppy for installing NT. * Start with the NS/Intel installation. When it asks you how you want to configure your disk, it gives you three choices, which are basically 1. erase the whole disk and use it all for NS/Intel, 2. save some room for DOS, 3. advanced. Choose the advanced option, which places you in NS/Intel fdisk (not to be confused with DOS FDISK.EXE). * Create three partitions in this order: 1. Primary DOS (if more than 32MB desired, use the "large" FAT option) 2. HPFS (this is a placeholder for NT, and can be any non-DOS format) 3. NEXTSTEP * Proceed with the rest of the NEXTSTEP installation. * When NEXTSTEP is safely installed and tested out, boot DOS from your bootable DOS floppy. * FORMAT the DOS partition (which should be Drive C if you made it the first partition). You want to FORMAT C:/S, to install the boot code to make the DOS partition bootable. * Once DOS is safely formatted and tested out, insert the NT installation floppy and reboot. * Proceed with the NT installation. Tell Setup to install NT in the second partition (which shows up as "Unformatted"). You can select NTFS for FAT format. * Insert the blank floppy when asked. Don't bother to format it, NT unconditionally formats it. * If you select NTFS, there is a scary part of the installation that makes it seem like NT can't reboot. In fact, it is converting the installed files from FAT to NTFS in place. Just let it keep rebooting until it finishes, don't interrupt it like I did. * Finish setting up NT and test it out. It should be able to see the DOS partition in FileManager. * Likewise, there should be a DOS filesystem in / on NS/Intel. If you configured NT for FAT instead of NTFS, there should be two DOS filesystems in /. That's it. When you boot, you see the familiar NS/Intel boot manager. If you select DOS, it boots NT, which in turn offers you a chance to boot DOS or NT (not NS/Intel, of course). Kind of weird that you have this two tiered boot, but it's probably because the bootsector has been modified by NT. I haven't tried setting the active partition to DOS -- that might avoid the two tiers. 6.18 Can NEXTSTEP/Intel read, write, and format DOS and Mac floppies? MacIntosh, r/w floppy MS-DOS, r/w floppy Yes. 6.19 NEXTSTEP/Intel 3.1, DOS, Linux/NT multi-boot system? multi OS boot Linux MS-DOS OS/2 boot manager dual boot The OS/2 boot manager does this nicely. NOTES ON INSTALLING DOS, OS/2 AND NEXTSTEP FOR DUAL BOOT * Boot OS/2 from diskette and press Escape to get to the [A:] command prompt * Run the OS/2 FDISK program and create the following partitions: + 1 MB Boot Manager + 20MB DOS Primary partition (drive C:) + 64MB OS/2 Extended partition (logical drive D:) + 120MB Data Extended partition (logical drive E:) (or 200MB or whatever size) NOTE: LEAVE THE REMAINING 460+MB FREE SPACE UNFORMATTED DO NOT CREATE A PARTITION FOR THE REMAINING SPACE * Re-boot the machine and boot DOS from diskette. * Format drive C: and install DOS on drive C: with the following command: format c: /s /u * Now Re-boot the machine with the OS/2 Installation diskette. * Install OS/2 on Drive D: (the 64 MB logical partition) You will be prompted to install OS/2 on the default drive C: You will need to select the option to change the drive which will throw you into FDISK. Just make drive D: installable and proceed. * After OS/2 has been installed shutdown the system. Do a cold power off boot. * Cold boot the machine with the NEXTSTEP boot diskette. * Proceed with normal NEXTSTEP install and you should get the following disk installation option screen: Type 1 to erase the entire disk and use all 667 MB ... Type 2 to set aside some space for DOS and use the rest ... Type 3 to keep existing partitions and use the 462 MB free space ... Type 4 to use the 184 MB DOS extended partition for NEXTSTEP. Type 5 for advanced options (in English only). ---> Choose option number 3 and proceed with the NEXTSTEP install * After NEXTSTEP has been installed, re-boot the machine and select 'd' from the NEXTSTEP boot manager menu to boot DOS. * When DOS has booted, run the FDISK program to set the active partition to the first partition, the BOOT Manager partition. Then exit fdisk. * Now run the DOS FDISK program again but with the following parameter: fdisk /mbr This command removes the NEXTSTEP boot manager from the DOS partition. * Now re-boot the machine and the boot manager should come up. Select OS/2 * Once OS/2 has booted, run the OS/2 FDISK program and name the NEXTSTEP partition and add it to the boot manager menu. * You should now have a machine with DOS, NEXTSTEP, OS/2 listed in the boot manager menu when the machine starts up. The boot manager defaults to the OS that was last booted. 6.20 NeXTSTEP on INTEL, KEYBOARD-ERROR ... keyboard error, Intel We installed NeXTSTEP for Intel on a P5-Board using an Adaptec A1540 SCSI-Controller. The System boots correctly. After running the kernel the keyboard is without any function. We can't use it anymore. Rebooting doesn't eliminate the error (advise from I-Guide). Well, it seems that the PS/2 Mouse driver interferes with the keyboard driver when installing on some motherboards. You have to remove the PS/2 mouse driver, then reboot, and it will work fine. I destroy the driver on our machines, so that config=Default will work properly as well. You should be able to remove the driver without reinstalling. 6.21 NS 3.2 Tseng ET4000 Video Driver doesn't work. ET4000, NS3.2 TSENG Cards often have different DACs and BIOS-Versions. It is important, that the graphics card do have the original BIOS from TSENG Laps. Otherwise, it is not possible to run NS with the 1024 x 768 resolution. 6.22 Accessing ROM monitor on Intel-System, how? ROM-Monitor, Intel On Intel you just type -s at the boot: prompt. Also try CTRL-C at the point where it hangs it might continue. This gives you single user mode. There simply is no ROM-Monitor on Intel as it is on NeXT. You do have the choice to enter a simple ROM-Debugger by choosing the appropriate option when the system hangs. 6.23 Adaptec 2940 Fast and Sync. SCSI explanation... This message is to clear up the confusion on the issue of whether or not the NEXTSTEP driver for the Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI Host Adapter supports Fast SCSI (i.e., 10 MB/s data transfers). The Adaptec 2940 SCSI Host Adapter Driver supports Synchronous Data Transfer as well as Fast SCSI transfers. In order to enable Synchronous Data Transfer, this feature must be enabled in both the 2940's AutoSCSI program and in the NEXTSTEP Configure application, when configuring the Adaptec 2940 driver. In the AutoSCSI program, this feature is enabled in the SCSI Device Configuration menu, via the "Initiate Sync Negotiation" field. This can be enabled or disabled on a per-target basis. In the Configure application, the "Synchronous" button, if disabled, disables Synchronous Transfers for ALL targets. If enabled, the values selected in the AutoSCSI program are used to determine whether or not Synchronous Transfers occur on a per-target basis. The Synchronous Transfer data rate is determined in the 2940's AutoSCSI program, via the "Maximum Sync Transfer Rate" field in the SCSI Device Configuration menu. "Fast SCSI" Transfers are enabled by selecting a value of 10 (i.e., 10 Megabytes/seconds) for this field. Note that if Synchronous Transfers are disabled, the "Maximum Sync Transfer Rate" field is meaningless. Also note that it is not recommended to select a value higher than 5 for a device which is in an external enclosure and connected to the 2940 via an external SCSI cable. 6.24 Do EIDE-Drives work with NEXTSTEP? EIDE Yes, a driver is included in NEXTSTEP 3.3 6.25 Anyone have a driver yet that does 8 bit color on an ET4000/w32p card? (Hercules Dynamite Pro VLB) ET4000/w32p, 8 Bit color Here's a trick that will work with 3.3 if the driver works with your adapter. You need the latest driver though. Simply select one of the 8-bit gray resolutions in Configure. Save the configuration and quit Configure. Open Instance0.table inside the driver bundle and search for BW:8 and replace it by RGB:256/8. Save the file. Restart your machine and you've got 8-bit color!!! 6.26 Does a Glidepoint pointing device work with NEXTSTEP? Glidepoint It will work nicely under NS as you don't need any driver to make it work and use the nice features that GlidePoint have, like 'double-tap' to replace left-button click and 'double-tap and slide on the pad' to replace the hold the button and move for dragging an object. 6.27 AppleTalk under NEXTSTEP/Intel? AppleTalk, Intel IPT has a product called Partner, which works fine under 3.3 and mounts AppleShare Volumes, supports AT printing etc. (This is true, although IPT states that Partner only runs under 3.3 Black and 3.2 Intel.) 6.28 Booting hangs with black screen Triton Bootoptions On some Triton based boards there seems to be a graphic problem while booting. The solution is to switch off graphic display and always boot with the '-v' option turned on (enter this at the 'boot:' prompt). If you don't get a 'boot:' prompt, or if you just want to fix things forever, you need to enter Default.table and Instance0.table in /usr/Devices/System.config and set 'BootGraphics="No"'. This has the same effect as typing '-v' at the 'boot:' prompt every time. Setting BootGraphics=NO can also be done from the Expert panel in Configure.app 6.29 Why are the features of my graphic card useless? graphic card For the purposes of this discussion, I will limit my response to the manner in which DPS operates as part of the NEXTSTEP window server. DPS sometimes draws directly to the screen and sometimes to offscreen memory (buffered windows). The latter is the most common case. The former occurs only in nonretained windows and visible portions of retained windows. DPS is split into two sections: a device independent kernel and a device dependent driver layer. The driver layer is free to use graphics hardware to do its job; however there are complications. First, most graphics cards only allow you to use the hardware to draw into the framebuffer, not into system memory. This renders the hardware unusable for buffered windows. Second, the hardware must draw the same pixels that the software would draw. Often this is hard to achieve with satisfactory performance results. The DPS device primitives rely on precise pixel layout that often cannot be guaranteed using the hardware in the most straightforward manner. So, while it is theoretically possible to use graphics hardware with DPS in NEXTSTEP, it is not very practical. This should not lead you to the conclusion that all graphics cards are the same when it comes to NEXTSTEP. The speed of the system bus (ISA, EISA, PCI, VLB) is a big determinant of performance, but the internal architecture of the card itself also has a huge impact on the framebuffer memory bandwidth. I won't go into details, but some of the determinants include DRAM vs. VRAM, memory interleaving, and burst access. Other factors also influence the quality of a display card. These include the speed and stability of the RAMDAC and the supported display modes to name jsut two. 6.30 How to use MIDI without the MusicKit? MIDI MusicKit * Be sure you have an MPU-401 compatible MIDI card for the PC. * Get the Music Kit and install it. It's on the ftp servers. * Install the MIDI driver by double clicking on /LocalLibrary/Devices/Mididriver, which will add it to the system. Set the IRQ and IO port in the Configure.app. Then reboot. * If your program does not use the -ObjC flag on its link line, link against /usr/local/lib/libmusickit.a. However, if your program does use the -ObjC flag, extract the following files from libmusickit.a and link against them explicitly: mididriver_replyServer.o mididriverUser.o mididriver_nonMig.o * Add this line as the first line in the C file that accesses the MIDI driver: #import <musickit/midi_driver_compatability.h> Be sure that you do not explicitly import . This file is (conditionally) imported by . The reason for needing a separate API for Intel is that there's a structure size disparity between the 68k and Intel versions of NeXT's libsys_s. So we defined a new set of MIDI functions for the Intel driver. The header file above defines the old names to be the new names. * Change the mididriver port name from mididriver to Mididriver. Example: #if i386 #define MIDIDRIVER_NAME "Mididriver" #else #define MIDIDRIVER_NAME "mididriver" #endif r = netname_look_up(name_server_port, "",MIDIDRIVER_NAME, &driverPort); This is another change to prevent conflict with the NeXT hardware driver. 6.31 Installation problems with EIDE and ATAPI drives EIDE installation ATAPI Load the SCSI driver and then load the EIDE driver. Don't follow the directions they give you (which are to load the CD's driver and then load the hard drive's driver). Do it backwards, so that the hard drive you are installing to gets assigned sd0. By swapping drivers like this, the CDROM gets sd1 which is what the installation procedure expects. I guess that what happened is that the EIDE driver makes the CDROM drive masquerade as a SCSI device. And SCSI ids will be assigned to devices in the order that you load the drivers. Since the OS wants to load to sd0, that means that you have to load the hard drive's driver before the CDROM's driver, especially in this case where the CD is on one bus and the HD is on another. By doing this, the CD doesn't steal sd0 away before the SCSI driver is loaded. My guess is that if you had the CD and the hard drive on the same bus (EIDE or SCSI) you'd never have this trouble. It's just the fact that there are two busses that confuse the installation. Anyway, this worked for me (Don Yacktman don@misckit.com). 6.32 Error message during boot time error, during boot message, bootstrap The following is a common error message you might encounter during the boot process just before the workspace starts up: bootstrap_register failed -- 102. You may ignore it savely. It will only occur if you didn't installed a sound driver. 6.33 Does NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP run with ... compatibility Although there are problems running NEXSTEP/OPENSTEP in conjunction with certain hardware, these problems are rare and most people got it working somehow. It's best to buy supported add-on cards listed in the Intel-Configuration section of NeXTanswers http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/. However most mainboards do work. Yes, this includes Pentium-Pro processors. NO, this excludes MP support (if you don't know what it is, never mind) (Okay, MP: Multi-Processing. Some boards are capable to keep more than one processor. However NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP doesn't take advantage of more than one processor). Also most multiprocessing boards do work with a single or more processors (even if a second or further processors aren't utilized) there are reports which indicate that there are problems with these boards. 6.34 RAM greater 64MB, now I get a black screen! screen, black black screen Many users discouver a nice effect: They add RAM to their computer so they have more than 64MB of RAM installed. After rebooting NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP only a black screen appears and the system is stalled. This is a common problem. Reboot using the default configuration or with the VGA driver installed. Run Configure and select your graphic driver. Enter a value greater 64MB (in hexadecimal numbering, eg.0xA000000) and save. That's it. Previously your drivers memory did collide with your computers memory. 6.35 Lost root password root, password password, root The following is a method on how to change the root password on an Intel based computer. However if the system is booted over a network this won't help. Boot in single user mode supplying '-s' to the boot prompt. Once the system is halted. Start NetInfo by running 'sh /etc/rc'. Now use 'nu -m' to change the password and reboot (enterying 'reboot' of course. Not pressing the power button! I didn't had to tell this, did I?) 7 STORAGE 7.1 Disktab help needed: ST15230N disktab ST15230N Seagate, ST15230 This is the /etc/disktab entry for the SEAGATE ST15230N. ST15230N_1024|SEAGATE ST15230N_1024:\ :ty=fixed_rw_scsi:nc#3992:nt#19:ns#59:ss#1024:rm#5411:\ :fp#160:bp#0:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\ :os=sdmach:z0#32:z1#96:hn=localhost:ro=a:\ :pa#0:sa#512000:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#8:da#4096:ra#10:oa=time:\ :ia:ta=4.3BSD:\ :pb#512000:sb#512000:bb#8192:fb#1024:cb#8:db#4096:rb#10:ob=time:\ :ib:tb=4.3BSD:\ :pc#1024000:sc#716800:bc#8192:fc#1024:cc#8:dc#4096:rc#10:oc=time:\ :ic:tc=4.3BSD: \ :pd#1740800:sd#1536000:bd#8192:fd#1024:cd#8:dd#4096:rd#10:od=time:\ :id:td=4.3BSD: \ :pe#3276800:se#1150000:be#8192:fe#1024:ce#8:de#4096:re#10:oe=time:\ :ie:te=4.3BSD: 7.2 Formatting DEC DSP3105 with 1024-byte blocks. DEC, DSP3105 DPS3105, 1024 block size disktab A DEC DSP3160S was reformatted with 1024-byte blocks using the following entry in /etc/disktab (two partitions) # DEC DSP3160S DSP3160S|DEC DSP3160S|DEC DSP3160S w/1024 b/sec as 2 partition:\ :ty=fixed_rw_scsi:nc#1302:nt#16:ns#75:ss#1024:rm#5403:\ :fp#160:bp#0:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\ :os=sdmach:z0#32:z1#96:r0=a:\ :pa#0:sa#744000:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#7:da#4096:ra#10:oa=time:\ :ia:ta=4.3BSD:\ :pb#744000:sb#818400:bb#8192:fb#1024:cb#7:db#4096:rb#10:ob=time:\ :ib:tb=4.3BSD: 7.3 My formatted disk has much less space then advertised! filesystem, overhead disk space space, disk filesystem, space Let's assume you bought a disk drive advertised with 400 MB unformatted capacity. Vendors are not consistent with the MB definition. You may have much less space less than you think you have. Which of the following did you buy? 400 * 1000 * 1000 = 400,000,000 bytes 400 * 1024 * 1000 = 409,600,000 bytes 400 * 1024 * 1024 = 419,430,400 bytes (for Quantum drives the following is true: Quantum defines 1MB to be exactly 1000000 Bytes). The disk must be formatted. This is often done by the vendor, but occasionally by the user. Formatting maps the disk into sectors. Space is reserved for the disk geometry and bad sectors. Formatting can take 10-20% of the capacity depending on the sector size. Common sector sizes are 512 and 1024. Generally, bigger sectors mean less waste. Once formatted, the UNIX file system must be created. On the NeXT, this is one of the steps performed by the BuildDisk application. It invokes the mkfs command to make a file system. This reserves space for the UNIX file system (e.g., superblocks, inode tables). This overhead can take another 2-3% of the available disk space. If you issue the df command, you may be surprised to see another 10 the available disk space has disappeared. The df command shows the total, used, and available disk space. The df units are in kbytes (1024 bytes). The sum of the used and available numbers will generally be about 10 allow the UNIX file system to be efficient in its storage allocation. If your disk fills up, only the superuser can store files in the remaining 10%. To complete the picture, here's a snapshot of what may occur: Capacity Lost/Used/Reserved Reason (in bytes) (in bytes) 419,430,000 19,430,000 Marketing hype (~5\%) 400,000,000 60,000,000 Formatting (~15\%) 340,000,000 6,800,000 UNIX file system (~2\%) 333,200,000 33,320,000 Efficiency & superuser (~10\%) 299,880,000 For more information, refer to the df and mkfs man pages. 7.4 Can't initialise my disk within the Workspace initializing Sometimes there are problem initializing disks. This only occurs if the disk is already formatted, but in a different format, e.g. the sector size was changed etc. Mostly you can overcome this problem by using the sdformat utility available on the FTP sites. (Not sdform by NeXT, which is incapable to do this). After using sdformat, you should be abel to further format the media within Workspace. 7.5 Initialing Opticals for NeXT OD, NeXT optical disk, OD OD, initializing Do the following: /etc/mkfs /dev/rsd1a 288339 1803 2 8192 1024 12 10 60 4096 t 7.6 How to use a tape drive ? tape drive Using Configure.app add the SCSITape driver to support any SCSI tape drives in the "Others" config. 7.7 How to recover from an partially formatted disk? recover, disk Often people (mostly on Intel) complain about a formatted disk (sometimes partially) due to an installation process error of some other OS. There is a chance to recover most of the data. The following assumes you are on Intel, other hardware user have to handle things much less complicated, but the way is similar: * Prepare a new hard drive for booting * Don't try to repair the broken drive! * On Intel run fdisk to repartition the drive as it was before. If you are not able to do this, you are lost. Delete all evtl. new created partitions. By repartitioning, you won't loose data on the drive. * Run disk on the broken drive e.g. type disk -rsd1h. * Now scan the disk for superblocks by entereing the scan command at the interactive disk command prompt. * If your disk was partially formatted, use a higher superblock number to supply fsck with an new superblock. E.g. if a superblock was found at 3145 use fsck -b3145 -y /dev/sd1a (assuming the first partition is the broken one). * After this run, it is most important to reboot without syncing the drives! E.g. just turn off the computer without shutting down, or use the reboot -n command. * After rebooting the run fsck again, if it isn't done by the system itself. * You should be able to access the drive again now. Recovered files are placed in the /lost+found directory. 7.8 What about the ZIP drive? IOmega, ZIP ZIP drive There are frequently asked questions about the IOmega ZIP drive. One question will be answered here: 'Yes, it works with NEXTSTEP'. For other question I'd like to point you to the ZIP-drive FAQ: http://www.radical.com/TheSolutions/RadicalSolution4.html 7.9 How to partition a 4GB drive 4GB drive 2GB partition limit Quantum sizes If you are going to use large drives (greater 2GB) you need to partition this drive (true at least for OS versions up to 4.0). These are the common ways to go without too much trouble and it provides an very easy way for 4GB drives under NS3.3. 1. Solution: disktab + If you need more than 3 partitions, you have to write a disktab entry! Using fdisk (Intel systems only) has no effect. + On how to write a disktab entry, read the NeXTanswers (search for partition) + other pointers are: 'scsimodes' and 'man disktab'. 2. Solution: installation on drive to partition + for Quantum drives the following is true: Quantum defines 1MB to be exactly 1.000.000 bytes. So if you are suited best by using 2 partitions on a Quantum Atlas 34300 (4.3GB drive-Quantum size, 4GB+5MB real size) + 2 partitions are automatically handled on all NS3.3 platforms + To easily install the drive by not writing a disktab entry do the following: o disconnect all other drives and connect the 4GB drive with ID 0 o start a plain NS3.3 installation via disks and the CD-ROM o when the installation of files starts (text based output) you may break the procedure (the disk will get fsck'ed later) or wait until the system reboots and hangs :-) (no fsck needed then) o you should previously have read some line telling you: initializing sd0b o now reconnect your old boot drives and restart NEXTSTEP with the old boot drives. Switch the 4GB drive to a different ID. o Only the first partition of the 4GB drive will get mounted automatically, this is due to a documented bug in the automounter. o to permanently mount both partitions, add your drive partitions to the /etc/fstab file. Test mounting and umounting by hand first. o everything should work fine now after a second reboot, and if you set up your fstab file correctly, both partitions will get mounted. + To switch the boot partition to the new 4GB drive continue with: o only the first partition is bootable (you'll notice that by doing a ls -l on the mount entry --- there is the 't' file mode) o (cd / ; gnutar -clf -)|(cd ; gnutar -xvpf -) This transfers your root partition to the new partition. o now try a boot from the new drive, by entering in the boot prompt: sd(x)mach_kernel (bsd for NeXT) 7.10 How to mount/ignore a disk during boot fstab mount, during boot disk, protection protection, disk disk, ignore foreign filesystems filesystem, ignore If you just format a new disk attached to your computer, it will get automounted by the Workspacemanager and unmounted when you log out. To utilize the disk during the boot process or to have fixed pathes and protections you need to create an entry in /etc/fstab for the drive. See the Unix manual pages for more details. This is also the solution for ignoring disks or partitions of a disk with a foreign filesystem, which the Workspacemanager otherwises would prompt you for formatting. A common mistake for /etc/fstab is to inlcude the noauto keyword in subsequent mounts. Don't include this keyword for further mount entries! 7.11 Can't read multisession CD-ROMs! CD-ROM, multisession multisession Argh. Yes it's true. The original NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP drivers can't read multisession CD-ROMs. Only the first session can be used. If it is audio, CDPlayer is started if it's data it is just automounted to become accessable though Worksapce manager. Luckily there is a commercial driver out there, which enables NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP to take advantage of multisession CD-ROMs. CDXA Driver Price DM 48,- (about $US 30) Uwe Tilemann Tools GmbH Adolfstr. 5 D-53111 Bonn GERMANY Phone: +49 0228 98580-0 Fax: +49 0228 98580-17 Email: ut@Tools.DE (NeXTmail/MIME) WWW: http://www.Tools.DE/ 8 PRINTING 8.1 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? printer, NeXT Adding supported postscript printers is rather simple: * Get a serial cable (e.g., Macintosh to LaserWriter Plus), but check whether that works with your printer * Configure using Print Manager * Configure printer communication according to manufacturer's recommendations. (9600 baud software flow control). A sample printcap entry needs to be loaded into the netinfo database. You can use either niload printcap . , or use NetInfoManager to change the br and lp properties of your LaserJet. Using the default baud rate and /dev/ttya will also work, for most print jobs (if the printer is connected to this port). LaserJet_III: \ :note=LaserJet_III:ty=HP LaserJet III PostScript: \ :sd=/usr/spool/NeXT/LaserJet_III:lp=/dev/ttyfa: \ :lf=/usr/adm/lpd-errs:af=/usr/adm/lp.acct:br=19200:rw:fc\#0000374: \ :fs\#0000003:xc\#0:xs\#0040040:mx\#0:sf:sb:if=/usr/lib/transcript/psif: \ :of=/usr/lib/transcript/psof:gf=/usr/lib/transcript/psgf: \ :nf=/usr/lib/transcript/psnf:tf=/usr/lib/transcript/pstf: \ :rf=/usr/lib/transcript/psrf:vf=/usr/lib/transcript/psvf: \ :cf=/usr/lib/transcript/pscf:df=/usr/lib/transcript/psdf: HP printer configuration: auto cont = off (doesn't matter) I/O = serial serial=rs-232 (for LJ III only) baud rate = 19200 (or whatever baud rate you have in ni database/printcap) robust xon = on (doesn't matter) dtr polarity = hi startpage = off (doesn't matter) language=english ret = med (you choose for LJ III only) Note that if you modify the printcap this way you cannot reconfigure this particular printer entry with PrintManager. If you are using NEXTSTEP 2.0 and you use remote non-next printers, there is a bug that can be simply corrected by doing "dwrite system PrinterResolution 1" for each user trying to access non-next printers on the network. This not a problem in later NEXTSTEP versions. 8.2 What fonts can I use with NEXTSTEP? fonts Properly packaged Type 1 or 3 PostScript fonts will work with NEXTSTEP, but certain conversions may be necessary to get them to work. Freeware and shareware fonts are available on various ftp archives. There are utilities with NEXTSTEP to download fonts into postscript printers. Freeware and shareware Type 1 and 3 fonts in files Fonts-1.0-free.tar.Z and Fonts-2.0-sw.tar.Z. Each file unpacks into it's own directory. Within each directory is a ReadMe.rtf and a Makefile. See the ReadMe.rtf for more font descriptions and installation instructions. (You may also find comments in the Makefile of interest.) These packages were prepared by Doug Brenner . The same directory contains fonts Shalom (Hebrew and Yiddish in Old Style, Stick and Script typefaces, by Jonathan Brecher, shareware) and CyrillicGothic (san serif, by Jay Sekora). These were packaged by Jacob Gore to work with the Installer application. WSI-Fonts for NEXTSTEP \#1 Abstract Software POB 25045 Seattle, WA 98125-1945 Voice: 206 361 5080 info@abstractsoft.com Some fonts in Type 1 format for NEXTSTEP are also available from Y&Y: Y\&Y, 106 Indian Hill, Carlisle MA 01741 USA Voice: 800 742 4059 Voice: 508 371 3286 Fax: 508 371 2004 71172,524 on CompuServe 71172.524@compuserve.com from InterNet There is a font converter available in the MetroTools package by MetroSoft (info@metrosoft.com). 8.3 How can I save my printable documents to a postscript file? PS to file Select PRINT from the main menu, then select SAVE from the resulting print panel. 8.4 How can I print only the even or odd pages of a document? odd and even pages even and odd pages duplex printing double sided print I wish print on both sides by feeding the paper through twice. We must recommend against re-using laser printed paper in your printers. The reason is that the toner which is used is not very robust, in that when heated again (which happens when you print) it can come off the other side of the paper. This causes a mess to accumulate in your printer, and probably some pretty rude things to happen. psutils from comp.sources.misc is a much better solution, and includes a lot more capabilities, plus it is being updated constantly. 8.5 How do I get banner pages on my printer output? banner There is a sample banner prologue file in /usr/lib/NextPrinter that is sent to the printer before or after the print job depending on what printer attributes are set in NetInfo. Sounds gross, but it isn't. Start up NetInfo on your printer machine. Go to the printer directory, and open up your local printer by double clicking it. Select the append property from Directory menu. Replace the name with BannerAfter (or BannerBefore if you want the banner page printed first). The select the New Value option, and put in the name of the banner prologue file. If you do not wish to do fancy customization of the file, simply put the path to the NeXT sample banner file: /usr/lib/NextPrinter/banner.pro Save out the netinfo modifications. 8.6 How do I get [la]TeX files to print correctly on non-NeXT printers? Latex TeX If you are printing to a non-NeXT printer from NeXT TeX using dvips, make sure you specify the correct resolution (300 dpi, usually), either on the command line with -D300, or in the /usr/lib/tex/config.ps file with a line that looks like : D 300 If you are printing from within TeXView, you will have to choose CustomResolution and enter the correct number (300, usually) because of the way DefaultResolution defaults to 0. 8.7 What if I have a PostScript font has not been ported to NEXTSTEP? PS-Font to NeXT Many PostScript fonts port to NEXTSTEP with little effort. The easiest case is a font generated by Fontographer version 3.2 or above (a comment near the top of the file should say which program generated the font). This version of Fontographer can generate fonts "for NEXTSTEP". This means that no hacking of the font is needed, but you may need to make some adjustments to make it appear in your font panel. Suppose you were porting the font family Shalom, which consists of three faces: Old Style, Stick and Script. Here is the procedure to follow: * In a working folder of yours, create folders called: Shalom-OldStyle.font Shalom-Script.font Shalom-Stick.font Note that the font family name is to the left of the hyphen ("-"), and the typeface name is to the right and with no spaces in it. * Copy the outline font file for each typeface from wherever it is into its folder, and give it the name of the folder minus the ".font". For example, if you are doing this in a Terminal window: cp /Floppy/ShalomOldStyle.NeXT Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle cp /Floppy/ShalomScript.NeXT Shalom-Script.font/Shalom-Script cp /Floppy/ShalomStick.NeXT Shalom-Stick.font/Shalom-Stick If you are working in Workspace Manager's File Viewer, double-click on the big fat F icon to open the font directory as a folder, then you'll be able to rename files in it. * Do the same thing with the font metric files, but make the suffix ".afm": cp /Floppy/ShalomOldStyle.AFM Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle.afm cp /Floppy/ShalomScript.AFM Shalom-Script.font/Shalom-Script.afm cp /Floppy/ShalomStick.AFM Shalom-Stick.font/Shalom-Stick.afm * If there is a "read me" file with the font, or any other documentation, copy it into the .font folder too. For example, each of the Shalom font folders contains files ReadMe, CheatSheet.wn and Sample.wn specific to the typeface. * Edit the outline and font metric files to make them fit the NeXT AppKit's Font Panel, which is what most NextStep applications use to let you choose your font. + Editing the outline file, e.g., Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle: The original used "ShalomOldStyle" as the font's name, full name, and family name. We want the name to be "Shalom-OldStyle", the full name "Shalom Old Style", and family name just "Shalom". First, find the lines: /FullName (ShalomOldStyle) readonly def /FamilyName (ShalomOldStyle) readonly def and change them to: /FullName (Shalom Old Style) readonly def /FamilyName (Shalom) readonly def Then, replace all remaining occurrences of the string "ShalomOldStyle" with "Shalom-OldStyle". + Editing the AFM file, e.g., Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle.afm. Find the lines: FullName ShalomOldStyle FamilyName ShalomOldStyle and change them to: FullName Shalom Old Style FamilyName Shalom Replace all remaining occurrences of the string "ShalomOldStyle" with "Shalom-OldStyle". Repeat this procedure for the remaining typefaces. * You now have a font family ready to be installed. If the font family is to be used by your account only, place it in /Library/Fonts (creating it if necessary): mkdirs ~/Library/Fonts mv Shalom-*.font ~/Library/Fonts buildafmdir ~/Library/Fonts If everybody on your system should have access to this font family, place it (as superuser) in /LocalLibary/Fonts: su mkdirs /LocalLibrary/Fonts mv Shalom-*.font /LocalLibrary/Fonts buildafmdir /LocalLibrary/Fonts exit That's all you need to do for fonts generated by Fontographer version 3.2 or above. This will work with all applications that use AppKit's FontPanel. FrameMaker does not, so other changes may need to be done to keep FrameMaker happy [does anybody have something to add here?]. Fonts generated by Fontographer version 3.1 or below don't work in Display PostScript as they are, because they use a memory management trick that screws everything up in a multitasking environment like DPS. However, there is a simple, though kludgy, way to make them work. The problematic trick uses a dictionary with a name like "Fog3.1" ("Casa1" in Casady & Green's fonts) in which most of the font resides. The problem is that Fontographer puts that whole dictionary into dictionary 'userdict' and expects it to stay there. DPS, however, clears out 'userdict' between tasks, including the task that loads the font and the task that uses it. This makes the font useless on the screen, and printable only by prepending the outline font file to the file you want to print and sending the result to print in one task. The fix is to move the troublesome dictionary from 'userdict' into the font dictionary itself (unlike 'userdict', the font dictionary does stick around between tasks). Perform the following changes in the outline font file (the font CyrillicGothic is used as the example): * Find the line "%%EndProlog". It will be followed by the line like this: /\$CyrillicGothic 23 dict def \$CyrillicGothic begin Write down the number before 'dict' (in this case, 23). You will need it in the following step. Delete the dict definition, making the line look like this: \$CyrillicGothic begin * Go back to the beginning of the file. near the top of the font program, find the following lines: userdict/Fog3.1 known\{\{currentfile( )readstring \{(\%\%\%)eq\{exit\}if\}{pop exit\}ifelse\}loop \}if userdict begin/Fog3.1 45 dict def Fog3.1 begin and replace them with these: /\$CyrillicGothic 24 dict def \$CyrillicGothic begin/Fog3.1 45 dict def Fog3.1 begin The number before 'dict' (in this case, 24) is one greater than the number you wrote down in the previous step. * Find the line that defines procedure BuildChar: /BuildChar{Fog3.1/BuildChar get exec}def and change it as follows: /BuildChar{1 index begin Fog3.1/BuildChar get exec end}def * Go to the end of the file. The last line looks like this: /CyrillicGothic findfont/EFN get Fog3.1 begin\{RF\}forall end Delete it (or comment it out by placing one or more " beginning of it). The AFM file requires one adjustment. Change the line EncodingScheme AppleStandard to EncodingScheme AdobeStandardEncoding This concludes conversion of a font generated by Fontographer version 3.1 or lower to work with NEXTSTEP. You may still need to make the changes described for version 3.2 and above, to make the font fit the NEXTSTEP font panel. Short note: under NEXTSTEP 3.3 there is no need to call buildafmdir by hand. It's triggered automatically by the Font panel. 8.8 What color printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? printer, color The (no longer sold) NeXT/Canon SCSI color printer, of course! With Dots Color, the HP DeskJet 500C can print in color today, under NEXTSTEP 2.1, and it costs significantly less than $1000 (in Germany at least). In Germany you can get more information from: d'ART Software GmbH Virchowstr. 17-19 W-2000 Hamburg 50 Germany Voice: +49 40 380 23 0 Fax: +49 40 380 23 290 software@dart.de JetPilot from Interpersonal Computer does this jobs also very well. You can get more information from: interpersonal computing GmbH Oettingenstrasse 2 W-80538 Muenchen Germany Voice: +49 89 22 28 63 Fax: +49 89 22 33 76 info@interpc.de 8.9 How can I make the Page Layout default to A4 in all applications? A4 default size Add "NXPaperType A4" in the "GLOBAL" preferences. 8.10 /usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/pstf: syntax error at line 31: `end of file' unexpected? Using lpr -t, or lpr -d causes this problem. eg: [...] cat /usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/pstf [...] Christopher Lane has pointed out 3 (three!) errors in the distributed NEXTSTEP 3.0 lpd.comm file The last change is my own. It worked for the 1 (one!) dvi file I tried. tilley\% diff lpd.comm.DIST lpd.comm 11,12c11,12 < while "x\$1" != x do < case "\$1" in --- > while test \$\# != 0 > do case "\$1" in 16c16 < -h) HOST=\$"; shift;; --- > -h) HOST=\$2; shift;; 17a18 > esac 21c22 < PRSERVER="/usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/prserver -p \$PRINTER -n \$USER -h HOST -f -" --- > PRSERVER="/usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/prserver -p \$PRINTER -n \$USER -h \$HOST -f -" 27c28 < psdf) psbad \$FILTER \$PRINTER \$USER \$HOST | \$PRSERVER;; --- > psdf) dvips -f -D 400 -r | \$PRSERVER ;; 8.11 How to get TeX with NEXTSTEP to make proper fonts for a 600 dpi laserwriter? 600dpi TeX fonts TeX, 600dpi If you upgrade to a 600 dpi laserwriter then the version of TeX that ships with NEXTSTEP (either 2.X or 3.0) does not know about 600 dpi fonts, i.e. does not know how to make them and will instead use scaled 400 dpi ones (which look significantly worse at 600 dpi than they do at 400 dpi). Some simple modifications to a few Metafont files and rebuilding the metafont bases are all that is needed. What to do to get the 600 dpi stuff working is as follows: * Edit /usr/lib/mf/inputs/next.mf and add a laserjetIV mode. Simply copy the entire imagen mode, change the name to laserjetIV, and change the pixels_per_inch to 600. Save the changed file. * Build a new mf.base file by executing the following commands: inimf "plain; input next; dump" (as superuser): cp plain.base /usr/lib/mf/bases/mf.base * Edit /usr/lib/tex/ps/config.ps and change the `D 400' line to `D 600' (you may have `D 300' or something else if you've set up a different printer.) * Edit /usr/bin/MakeTeXPK (as superuser), adding the lines elif test $BDPI = 600 then MODE=laserjetIV right before the second `else' in the file. That should do it! You might have to (depending on how you configure NEXTSTEP for the LaserJet IV) select `custom resolution' and set the gadget to 600 in the TeXview print panel, and save Preferences. These instructions are written for an HP Laserjet IV, but they should also work for a QMS printer just fine. Finally, if you have one of these printers and work in a "mixed" environment with perhaps 400 dpi and/or 300 dpi printers that you also print to on a regular basis then you might want to consider getting Type 1 PS version of the Computer Modern fonts instead. They obviate the need for the instructions above, and the savings in disc space will be considerable since having printer fonts for several printers takes lots of room, and the file sizes for 600 dpi are quite large (the files grow roughly as D logD, where D is the resolution). These fonts are made by Blue Sky Research, and work beautifully. Y&Y software is a reseller for BSR and sells a "NEXTSTEP specific" version of them which comes with appropriate instructions and installation scripts. 8.12 How to get printer description files (PPD)? PPD, where? printer description files, PPD Adobe has a mail server and ftp site where you can get .PPD files. They are: ps-file-server@adobe.com (put "send help" in the mail body) ftp.mv.us.adobe.com 8.13 What are the Canon part numbers for ink cartridges equivalent to those NeXT's Color Printer uses? ink cartridge, Canon Canon, ink cartridge Part Numbers are: Red: BJI-643 M Yellow: BJI-643 Y Blue: BJI-643 C Black: BJI-643 Bk 8.14 JetPilot does not work with my JetDirect box, why? JetPilot, JetDirect JetDirect, JetPilot eXTRAPRINT It seems, that there is a bug in the /etc/rc-script. The bootpd is given with to arguments -a -f, which are not available for the bootpd under 3.3. Make an entry in /etc/bootptab like this: \# \# host htype haddr iaddr bootfile \# printer 1 XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX where * host: your given hostname for the printer (eg. picasso) * haddr: The Ethernet hardware address (Can be seen, if you press the TEST-Key on your JetDirect box. * iaddr: Is the hostaddress for the printer (eg. 192.42.172.1) Entries have to be done also in the Netinfo-database. It's like adding a new host. Insert the following line to your etc/rc.local script: \# \# Starting JetDirect-Printer configuration \# fbshow -B -I "Starting Printer initialization" -z 92 /usr/etc/bootpd -d /etc/bootptab >/dev/console 2>\&1 There is an additional FAQ available at: ftp://ftp.gscorp.com/pub/support/HP_JetDirect_Configuration.rtfd.tar.g z 8.15 powering down NeXTprinter during bootup, printer still works power down, printer printer, printer down Type the following to your rc.local. \#turn off NeXT laser printer. fbshow -B -I "Powering off NeXTprinter" -z 95 if [ -f /usr/etc/nppower ]; then sleep 3 /usr/etc/nppower off (echo 'powering off NeXTprinter') >/dev/console fi This works fine... the printer powers down immediately, and is available for any app which wants it. 8.16 How to set up the HP LaserJet 4M? HP Laserjet 4M I solved the problem by building a serial cable based upon the pinouts supplied by HP in their manual. Please note that the LJIII cable does not work. In particular, pin 1 from the DIN plug must be connected to pin 6 of the DB25. I used 38500 bps on both sides, and the 600 dpi ppd. Emulex offers the NETJet network interface which speaks lpd protocol, unlike the HP unit. 8.17 Laserwriter NTX & NEXTSTEP Laserwriter NTX This are the pin assignments. Eight-pin mini DIN-8 RS-422 Port Pin Signal Description 1,3 SG Signal Ground 4 TxD+ Transmit Data + 5 TxD- Transmit Data - 8 RxD+ Receive Data + 9 RxD- Receive Data - IBM-compatible DB-25 Plug LaserWriter DB-25 Plug Signal Pin Pin Signal Shield 1 ............ 1 Shield TxD 2 ............ 3 RxD RxD 3 ............ 2 TxD RTS 4 ............ 4 RTS CTS 5 ............ 5 CTS DSR 6 ............ 8 DCD GND 7 ............ 7 GND ............ 20 DTR The other aspect is to set the DIP switch on the printer. Here are the DIP switch settings: Switch 1 Switch 2 Meaning UP UP LocalTalk---RS-232 port disabled DOWN UP Serial ports at 1200 Baud UP DOWN Serial ports at 9600 Baud DOWN DOWN RS-232 at 9600 Baud; RS-422 at 0 Baud Switches 3 and 4 can probably be ignored---they're for strange stuff like Diablo 630 and HP LaserJet emulation modes. Switch 5 Switch 6 Meaning DOWN DOWN XON/XOFF UP UP XON/XOFF DOWN UP ETX/ACK UP DOWN DSR 8.18 Problems with gray levels in printout gray levels color space PS Level2 If you have problems with your shades of gray (e.g. light gray is indistinguishable from white) this might be well a problem in the Level2 Color Space calibration of your printer. To ensure, it's a problem of your printer (and not a problem of the printer driver or PPD file) try the following: * Save a printout to a file * Edit the following line in your printout file: /\_NXLevel2 systemdict/languagelevel known {languagelevel 2 ge}{false}i felse \_\_NXdef to: /\_NXLevel2 false \_\_NXdef * Send the modified file directly to the printer using the commandline command lpr. If you still have problem with the shades of gray, the printer driver/PPD file is probably broken, otherwise your printer is broken, which means he has problems with the Level2 color space calibration (The given correction turns PS Level2 off). 8.19 Can't print using additional fonts printer, fonts In rare circumstances some printers refuse to print, if they don't recognize a font. In these cases add the _nxfinal form property to the printer's property list with NetInfo. 9 OBSOLETE BUT STILL INTERESTING? This chapter contains information covered in the early days of the FAQs. It is not updated anymore. Note that with new releases of NEXTSTEP and OpenStep some information might still be useful to those, who e.g. didn't update. 9.1 Where can I get NeXT paraphernalia? Paraphernalia NeXT paraphernalia are no longer available. Let's stop reading 1 minute and remember the times ..... Thanks! 9.2 Is there any way to change the text in the title bar of a terminal window? There is no way of changing the title bar of a Terminal.app window in 2.x; in 3.x there is. Check Preferences (Title Bar): set CustomTitle, type in the title, and hit CR (or Set Window) and voila! [From: andre@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Andre Roberge)] Actually, there is a way to change the title bar of a Terminal window in 2.x (at least in 2.1 which is what I am using). It is somewhat limited but it might be useful to some. The trick is to make a symbolic link between /bin/csh (or whichever shell one wishes to use) and a file in / named "Whatever_you_want_to_appear_in_the_title_bar". Then select this new "shell" in the terminal preference and, voila!, you'll have your terminal window with /Whatever_you..... in the title bar. You can edit Stuart's titlebar interactively from the "Window..." Inspector (Command-3). Stuart provides emulation of certain Operating System Command (OSC) sequences which can be used to modify the titlebar under subprocess control. Stuart can change the title of the current window from the command line. In Stuart is possible to get more descriptive titles by linking /usr/ucb/rsh to /usr/hosts/. Then by adding /usr/hosts to your Stuart ShellPath you can then get the hostname into the title bar: $ dwrite StuartShellPaths <various dirs>:/usr/hosts You should then type in the hostname as the shell to invoke (disable the "Shell reads .login file" for this. You can also add hosts to your .Stuartrc file: Shell=golem.ps.uci.edu SourceDotLogin=NO WinLocX=545 WinLocY=563 Lines=24 | WinLocX=76 WinLocY=833 For the localhost, link /bin/csh to /usr/hosts/, or even better /usr/local/bin/tcsh instead of using rsh. [From: Garance A Drosehn ] For what it's worth, I do this with a script called "telnet_to" and a (bash) function called "telnet_window". The function simply does a local soil_pars="-Lines 32 -Keypad YES -Reverse \ YES -Strict YES -TestExit YES"; soil -Shell "telnet_to $1" $soil_pars and the script is just: #!bin/sh /usr/ucb/telnet $* echo ' ' echo ' --> telnet exited, press enter to close window.' read -r Waste_Var exit 0 This has a number of advantages, not the least of which being that I can pop up a "telnet_window" to anywhere. I don't have to create links for each host (though I do create aliases for the most common hosts), and I can type "telnet_window" (or, e.g., "tel_aix") as a unix command. Also, if I lose the connection suddenly then the window stays around until I get a chance to see what happened. I use telnet instead of rsh because I generally connect to hosts which won't accept rsh's. 9.3 I can't get my pictures in OmniWeb OmniWeb You have to install the OmniImage.service in your /Library/Services or /LocalLibrary/Services (This is also a nice way to get pictures converted in other applications as well. You can ftp this from ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de 9.4 How do I remap the and | keys on my keyboard? Keyboard NeXT introduced a new keyboard configuration with the 040 products. The | keys which had been located on the main keyboard was moved to the numeric keypad. Many users have since complained about it, and a work around is to remap these keys using the demo application Keyboard (/NextDeveloper/Demos/Keyboard), Mike Carlton's keyboardfix program: ftp.cs.orst.edu:/pub/next/sources/next-interface/keyboardfix.tar.Z ...which lets you put these keys on shift-return or shift-delete. One can hope that there will be a choice of keyboards in the future. 9.5 How do I stop NeXTMail/Sendmail adding &Mcirc;s onto the end of lines? Sendmail In /etc/sendmail.cf make this change: [old code] ##### UUCP Mailer specification ##### Muucp, P=/usr/bin/uux, F=msDFMhuU, S=13, R=23, [new code] ##### UUCP Mailer specification ##### Muucp, P=/usr/bin/uux, F=msDFMhuU, S=13, R=23, E=\n, This has been fixed in 3.1, and the default mailhost sendmail is UUCP oriented. 9.6 Why does NEXTSTEP 1.0 hang a few seconds after attempting to boot? Boot hang, NS1.0 Release 1.0 contains a bug that can corrupt the kernel /odmach if a user attempts to launch /odmach from the browser. The solution is to copy a clean /odmach from another NeXT system. Be sure to change the permissions of the newly installed /odmach to remove execute permissions to prevent future occurrences of the same problem. Release 1.0a and beyond do not have this problem. It is possible for the sdmach to get corrupted in the same way. Boot from the OD, copy an uncorrupted version of the kernel to the hard disk, and remove the execute bits from sdmach. 9.7 Modem hangs under NS2.0 by incoming calls modem calls, incoming There is a bug in the serial driver which causes getty to get stuck. The situation arises after a successful uucico connection, subsequent connections via modem will get a connection with the modem, but no login prompt. This is caused by getty hanging. A simple work around is to have a process run in cron to reset the getty every 15 minutes: #! /bin/sh -u PIDS=`ps -ax | bm getty | grep -v bm | awk '{print $1}'` kill -TERM $PIDS Of course trying to connect when the script is running will not allow you to connect, try again a minute later. This fix will not affect on-going UUCP or interactive connections. This will probably be fixed in the next kernel release. This bug is corrected in NEXTSTEP 2.1 and later releases. 9.8 NS2.0 doesn't recognize /LocalApps path /LocalApps, NS2.0 Workspace has its own internal application path. In 2.0 /LocalApps was omitted. Improv needs to have /LocalApps in the Workspace path if you have Improve installed in /LocalApps. The work around in 2.0 only is: dwrite Workspace ApplicationPaths "~/Apps:/LocalApps:/NextApps: \ /NextDeveloper/Apps:/NextAdmin:/NextDeveloper/Demos" This bug is corrected in NEXTSTEP 2.1 and later releases. _________________________________________________________________ This document was converted from LaTeX using Karl Ewald's latex2html. -- -- Bernhard Scholz (IRC: Boerny) scholzb@pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de http://peanuts.leo.org/ scholz@ve1.rm.op.dlr.de http://www.leo.org/~scholz/
From: markm3@nospam.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I'have a NeXT Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 03:24:48 -0500 Organization: United States Internet, Inc. Message-ID: <markm3-0904980324480001@dialup57.tnblo.usit.net> References: <352A9622.471A2CB7@hol.fr> <1998040803080401.XAA26223@ladder01.news.aol.com> In article <1998040803080401.XAA26223@ladder01.news.aol.com>, willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) wrote: > I believe you'd have to set up the Mac as a router or some such to get > transparent internet connectivity on the NeXT. > Goto http://www.sustworks.com and download IPNetRouter I think this will do what you want. markm3@usit.net
From: scholzb@pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de (Bernhard Scholz) Newsgroups: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.answers,news.answers Subject: The NeXT-FAQ (Frequently asked questions) Followup-To: de.comp.sys.next Date: 11 Apr 1998 01:35:01 GMT Organization: InternetNews at LMU, University of Munich, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <6gmhc5$l2o$1@union.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Summary: Frequently asked questions concerning NeXT related topics. Posted-By: auto-faq 2.4 Archive-name: NeXT-FAQ Last-modified: Saturday, 11. March 1998 Posting-Frequency: monthly The NEXTSTEP/OpenStep FAQ _________________________________________________________________ THE NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP FAQ OVERVIEW * 1 Introduction * 2 General information * 3 What is ... * 4 Miscellaneous information * 5 Black (NeXT) hardware * 6 White (Intel) hardware * 7 Storage * 8 Printing * 9 Obsolete but still interesting? CONTENTS 1 Introduction 1.1 README FIRST! 1.2 About this FAQ 1.3 Submissions 1.4 Availability 1.5 Copyright 1.6 Disclaimer 1.7 Thanks 2 General information 2.1 Information available but not in the written FAQ version 2.2 Where to get answers? 2.3 How may I contact NeXT, Inc.? 2.4 FTP servers 2.5 Software on CD 2.6 What is the current status of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep? 2.7 Will there be a public implementation of OpenStep? 2.8 Are there differences between Openstep for Mach and other implementations? 2.9 What information is available by NeXT 2.10 What is the correct spelling? 2.11 How do I start an official NeXT User Group? 2.12 Are there differences in the NEXTSTEP implementations? 2.13 What are the names of the ftp sites that have NeXT-related files? 2.14 Additional information sources 2.15 How to get FTP files via e-mail. 2.16 References on Objective C 2.17 How to contact music interested people. 2.18 How to announce upcoming events 2.19 Can I mix different hardware running NEXTSTEP? 2.20 Can I exchange software running on different hardware? 3 What is ... 3.1 NEXTSTEP 3.2 Mach 3.3 OPENSTEP 3.4 Objective-C 3.5 NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer 3.6 D'OLE 3.7 PDO --- Portable Distributed Objects 3.8 EOF --- Enterprise Objects Framework 3.9 WebObjects 3.10 Rhapsody 3.11 WWW Browser 3.12 Newsreader 4 Miscellaneous information 4.1 How do I get pictures of people from remote sites to appear in Mail.app and NewsGrazer? 4.2 How to manipulate and examine default settings 4.3 How do I run NextApps remotely? 4.4 Why does UUCP hangs on outgoing connections after sending the password, but other communications software do not have a problem with it? 4.5 How do I access the NeXT's Digital Webster Dictionary from a program? 4.6 How do I get the arrow keys to work in csh? 4.7 What default affects menu location? 4.8 How to get Gourmet to boot up the Mathematica 2.0 kernel? 4.9 Manipulating the Loginwindow 4.10 How does one set UNIX man pages to be viewed in nroff format with DL like the standard manual pages in NS2.x? 4.11 Appending a signature and addition headers to your e-mail 4.12 How can I quickly find a file if I don't know its directory? 4.13 Mail.app suddenly stopped working! 4.14 Recycler doesn't work anymore?! 4.15 How to hear sound from CDPlayer.app thought NEXTSTEP system? 4.16 How do I decompress a file with the extension .compressed? 4.17 How do I change the Workspace compression app? 4.18 console: loginwindow: netinfo problem - No such directory. 4.19 Root login not possible on client machine 4.20 How to boot NEXTSTEP from the second (higher SCSI ID) HD? 4.21 How to make swapfile shrink to the normal size? 4.22 Does netinfo work between machines running NEXTSTEP 2.x and 3.x? 4.23 Why does the console user "own" the external disk filesystem? 4.24 How to limit coredump sizes? 4.25 What is the maximum value of nbuf that I can specify on bootup? 4.26 How can I change the mouse pointer shape and color? 4.27 How do I customize BuildDisk to create a bootable disk of my own configuration? 4.28 Are there any more dwrites useful for the workspace, ...? 4.29 What is the @LongLink message from gnutar all about? 4.30 What stands the file .place3_0.wmd for? 4.31 How to create transparent icons with IconBuilder 4.32 How to access the MAC format of a mixed DOS/MAC CD-ROM 4.33 Is there a PPP for NEXTSTEP 4.34 NIS and OpenStep 4.35 System overloaded due to swapping 4.36 Swapfile issues 4.37 Garbage collection and Objective-C 4.38 Setting up an anonymous FTP server 5 Black (NeXT) hardware 5.1 What disk drives will work with the NeXT? 5.2 Will a 68030 NeXT Computer run NEXTSTEP 3.3? 5.3 Does a FUJITSU MO (256 MB) works with NeXT original Hardware? 5.4 Can I run my SCSI-2 disks in synchronous mode? 5.5 How do I configure my HP 660 to boot properly? 5.6 What is the procedure for installing a Fujitsu M2263SA/SB SCSI Disk as the NeXT Boot Disk? 5.7 How to mount a corrupted OD that won't automount? 5.8 What non-NeXT CD Players that work with a NeXT? 5.9 What are some other sources of toner cartridges and trays for the NeXT laser printer? 5.10 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with a NeXT? 5.11 What can I do to prevent my NeXT printer from running all the time? 5.12 What type of microphones will work with the NeXT? 5.13 How do I connect a modem to the NeXT? 5.14 Are there any alternative sources for the SCSI-II to SCSI-I cable required to attach external SCSI devices to the 040 NeXTs? 5.15 What fax modems will work with the NeXT? 5.16 How may I attach more than two serial ports to the NeXT? 5.17 What is the best and/or cheapest way to connect a NeXT to a thick Ethernet? 5.18 How can I connect my NeXT to the telephone line and use it like an answering Machine? 5.19 What color monitors can I use with the Color NeXT machines? 5.20 Where can I get 13W3 to BNC adapters to connect third party color monitors? 5.21 How may I attach Centronics or 16 bit wide parallel ports to the NeXT? 5.22 Why does an unused serial port consume cpu? 5.23 How to adjust MegaPixel Display brightness and focus? 5.24 I want to emulate a macintosh, how? 5.25 My NeXT laser printer fails to fully eject the sheet - how to fix? 5.26 What are the NeXT mouse connections? 5.27 What type of memory may be installed in a NeXT? 5.28 What is the NeXT SIMM tool? 5.29 Where can I purchase a NeXT machine? 5.30 Where to obtain hardware service? 5.31 What types of NeXT machines were manufactured? 5.32 What can be done about older 030 NeXT cubes that have a fan that turns in the "wrong" direction? 5.33 Can I connect SONY MPX-111N to my 68030 NeXT Computer? 5.34 Why does the OD continually spin up and spin down? 5.35 How many colors can NeXT machines display? 5.36 Why is my machine so slow when I run the monochrome and NeXTdimension displays? 5.37 Where to obtain replacement mouse parts? 5.38 Where to obtain extra batteries? 5.39 How to convert a Turbo system to use ADB? 5.40 68030 board in the same NeXTcube as a 68040 board? 5.41 How to expand DSP memory? 5.42 How to boot a NeXT without a monitor? 5.43 Where can I get black spray paint for my NeXT? 5.44 What makes aged NeXT monitors dim? 5.45 How to use two internal hard drives 6 White (Intel) hardware 6.1 What about support for NeXT Computer specific hardware features such as the DSP? 6.2 Do Multi-Architecture Binaries take a lot of extra disk space? 6.3 How difficult is it to recompile existing NeXT applications over to NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.4 When developing programs, are there any portability issues I should be aware of? 6.5 What is the difference between the NEXTSTEP/Intel User Environment and Developer Environment? 6.6 If a specific I/O card is not supported by NeXT, can 3rd parties write drivers for NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.7 How is NEXTSTEP/Intel installed? 6.8 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on 386 machines? 6.9 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the Cyrix 486SLC? 6.10 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the future Intel Microprocessors in the x86 family? 6.11 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on portable computers? 6.12 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel be able to run MS-DOS and Windows programs? 6.13 How will my DOS and Windows applications perform under NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.14 Is the window I use to run Microsoft Windows applications resizable? 6.15 Will this DOS/Windows compatibility system allow me to run several DOS programs at once? 6.16 Can I cut and paste between DOS/Windows sessions and NEXTSTEP applications? 6.17 Can I use both DOS and NEXTSTEP/Intel partitions on the same hard disk? 6.18 Can NEXTSTEP/Intel read, write, and format DOS and Mac floppies? 6.19 NEXTSTEP/Intel 3.1, DOS, Linux/NT multi-boot system? 6.20 NeXTSTEP on INTEL, KEYBOARD-ERROR ... 6.21 NS 3.2 Tseng ET4000 Video Driver doesn't work. 6.22 Accessing ROM monitor on Intel-System, how? 6.23 Adaptec 2940 Fast and Sync. SCSI explanation... 6.24 Do EIDE-Drives work with NEXTSTEP? 6.25 Anyone have a driver yet that does 8 bit color on an ET4000/w32p card? (Hercules Dynamite Pro VLB) 6.26 Does a Glidepoint pointing device work with NEXTSTEP? 6.27 AppleTalk under NEXTSTEP/Intel? 6.28 Booting hangs with black screen 6.29 Why are the features of my graphic card useless? 6.30 How to use MIDI without the MusicKit? 6.31 Installation problems with EIDE and ATAPI drives 6.32 Error message during boot time 6.33 Does NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP run with ... 6.34 RAM greater 64MB, now I get a black screen! 6.35 Lost root password 7 Storage 7.1 Disktab help needed: ST15230N 7.2 Formatting DEC DSP3105 with 1024-byte blocks. 7.3 My formatted disk has much less space then advertised! 7.4 Can't initialise my disk within the Workspace 7.5 Initialing Opticals for NeXT 7.6 How to use a tape drive ? 7.7 How to recover from an partially formatted disk? 7.8 What about the ZIP drive? 7.9 How to partition a 4GB drive 7.10 How to mount/ignore a disk during boot 7.11 Can't read multisession CD-ROMs! 8 Printing 8.1 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? 8.2 What fonts can I use with NEXTSTEP? 8.3 How can I save my printable documents to a postscript file? 8.4 How can I print only the even or odd pages of a document? 8.5 How do I get banner pages on my printer output? 8.6 How do I get [la]TeX files to print correctly on non-NeXT printers? 8.7 What if I have a PostScript font has not been ported to NEXTSTEP? 8.8 What color printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? 8.9 How can I make the Page Layout default to A4 in all applications? 8.10 /usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/pstf: syntax error at line 31: `end of file' unexpected? 8.11 How to get TeX with NEXTSTEP to make proper fonts for a 600 dpi laserwriter? 8.12 How to get printer description files (PPD)? 8.13 What are the Canon part numbers for ink cartridges equivalent to those NeXT's Color Printer uses? 8.14 JetPilot does not work with my JetDirect box, why? 8.15 powering down NeXTprinter during bootup, printer still works 8.16 How to set up the HP LaserJet 4M? 8.17 Laserwriter NTX & NEXTSTEP 8.18 Problems with gray levels in printout 8.19 Can't print using additional fonts 9 Obsolete but still interesting? 9.1 Where can I get NeXT paraphernalia? 9.2 Is there any way to change the text in the title bar of a terminal window? 9.3 I can't get my pictures in OmniWeb 9.4 How do I remap the and | keys on my keyboard? 9.5 How do I stop NeXTMail/Sendmail adding &Mcirc;s onto the end of lines? 9.6 Why does NEXTSTEP 1.0 hang a few seconds after attempting to boot? 9.7 Modem hangs under NS2.0 by incoming calls 9.8 NS2.0 doesn't recognize /LocalApps path _________________________________________________________________ This document was converted from LaTeX using Karl Ewald's latex2html. The NEXTSTEP/OpenStep FAQ ! to the table of contents _________________________________________________________________ 1 INTRODUCTION 1.1 README FIRST! This is now preliminary version of the FAQ. It hasn't been updated for 2 years. Because I was lacking to update it on a regular basis, I'm now struggling to continue working on it. So be aware, that most information isn't still up-to-date! (In fact it's sometimes more than 2 years old). However I believe, I've rechecked a lot and most information should be correct. Please let me now, if you discover any wrong information. This FAQ is going to be updated monthly, at least on the Peanuts Web site. Postings to the newsgroups might change, because the FAQ is really huge now (over 110 pages, using >200kB). Please excuse misspellings, wrong grammar, etc. English isn't my native language and I have only school knowledge. Have fun! 1.2 About this FAQ These are the frequently asked questions concerning NeXT, NeXTSTEP or any other NeXT related topics. This compilation is meant primarily as a service to the (comp.sys.next and de.comp.sys.next) community. NeXT Software,Inc. was a privately held company, heading towards software business. It sold NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP its award winning OS and several other software packages (most included with NEXTSTEP): EOF, NEXTSTEP Developer, WebObjects, NetInfo, ... However all properties of NeXT Software, Inc. are now owned by Apple Computer. Apple is still distributed the NeXT software and currently developing a new operating system based on the NeXT technology, code name: Rhapsody. The latest version is OPENSTEP (based on the white paper 'OpenStep'), which runs not only on top of Mach (as NEXTSTEP does) but also on Solaris, Windows NT, Windows 95, HP-UX. The user of NeXT's software is confronted with a wide range of different software and hardware. To help in the unaware user, this FAQ was founded. But also professional users might find some interesting information, which they didn't knew already. Note that NEXTSTEP,OpenStep and Rhapsody questions often concern related topics like Objective-C, UNIX, administration tasks, etc. for which already separate FAQs do exist. See the new.answers newsgroup for additional FAQs, if your problem isn't covered by this FAQ. 1.3 Submissions As with all FAQs the quality of the information provided here is mostly depending on the Usenet community, which in most cases serves for the information resource. Feel free to e-mail the FAQ author to contribute, or send error reports. If you contact the author, use the following subject for submissions: FAQ submission. To report errors use: FAQ error. Additionally you might want to add the chapter where the submission/error report belongs to. 1.4 Availability This FAQ is published monthly in the comp.sys.next.* newsgroups and in the near future news.answer. It may be downloaded via FTP from ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/peanuts/GeneralData/Documents/faq/. Special additions for redistributors and homeusers do exist. This FAQ may be accessed only through Peanuts as well: http://www.peanuts.org/ In the near future we want to implement an e-mail service for those who don't have access to news. You may add yourself to the mailinglist by sending an e-mail with subject: FAQ mailme. Note that this service isn't available, yet completely, because there is too little interested. However I keep a list of all the registered people and they will still receive e-mail copies. 1.5 Copyright This FAQ is copyrighted by Bernhard Scholz. (Internet e-mails: scholzb@peanuts.org) Mentioned trademarks belong to their holder and are not explicitly listened. We do not collect any royalties, charge any fees, or compensate anyone in connection with this endeavor, but of course we would be happy about each e-mail commenting on the FAQ, about pizzas (lasagne is accepted, too :-) ), postcards, ... Anyway we reserve a copyright on the the published information in this FAQ. Any questions concerning other redistribution should be send to the author of the FAQ. Reprinting of this FAQ, even in parts, is prohibited without permission by the author except for printings for private use. Newsletter editors wishing to excerpt from this work for publication should consider using local electronic bulletin boards to disseminate this information rather than preparing hardcopies. This allows for readers to access the most recent information, and perhaps save a couple of trees. 1.6 Disclaimer Of course there is no warranty in any case using the information provided here. We haven't tested the information to be correct. We are not affiliated with any of the companies mentioned in this FAQ. 1.7 Thanks Especially we want to thank the Usenet community for contributing to the FAQ and all the people who have written us. Then I want to thank the people who worked on the FAQ before I did take them over (in order of working): Pascal Chesnais and Erik Kay, Nathan F. Janette, Maximilian Goedel (never released anything but cleaned up some things for me). Thanks also to Karl Ewald, who contributed his latex2html Perl script which replaced the non working original latex2html version. 2 GENERAL INFORMATION General information 2.1 Information available but not in the written FAQ version pinout patches There is additional information available for the following topics: mouse pinouts, monitor cable pinouts, common addresses, mousepointer patch, windowmanager patch. These inforamations are not included in the written FAQ, because they are considered rarely referenced resources and of not much use for the written FAQ. However you'll get these information when you download the whole FAQ via FTP or HTTP as a package for your computer. Please look at http://www.peanuts.org/FAQ/ for further information. 2.2 Where to get answers? If you run into a problem, first read the FAQ of course :-) Second you might consider asking NeXT directly through the electronic service: nextanswers@next.com. Send an e-mail with subject: ascii help index to start. If all fails, post to the newsgroups concerning NeXT related topics: comp.sys.next.*, de.comp.sys.next. 2.3 How may I contact NeXT, Inc.? Next, Inc. Contacting NeXT, Inc. Address of NeXT, Inc. NeXT, Inc. can be reached under the following addresses. USA: NeXT, Inc. 900 Chesapeake Drive Redwood City, CA 94063 Voice: 800-848-NeXT (Redwood City #) Voice: (415)-366-0900 Japan: NeXT marketing div. of Canon - Japan Phone: (81)-44-549-5295 Fax: (81)-44-549-5462 EUROPE: Munich: Phone: (49)-89-996-5310 UK: Technology House Meadowbank Furlong Road Bourne End Bucks SL8 5AJ Phone: (44)-1628 535222 Fax: (44)-1628 535200 Note: numbers abroad are listed with the country codes first. You will need to dial the international access number of your long distance carrier before proceeding to dialing the country code, area code and phone number. 2.4 FTP servers FTP Software The FAQ mentions a lot of software packages which you might find useful. In general there are two big sites serving Europe and the US. These sites keep most of the software available and do mirror themselves to keep up to date (although the structure of the archive differ). If the software isn't on one of these sites, the appr opriate site is listed in the text. If you get slow connections you might want to consider contacting a mirror of the both sites. For the Peanuts archive (Europe) the WWW pages http://www.peanuts.org give you links to an updated list of mirrors and other FTP sites. The addresses are: ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/ (formerly the ftp.cs.orst.edu archive) ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/ (Peanuts archive in Europe) ftp://ftp.evolution.com/ (Peanuts mirror USA) ftp://ftp.eunet.ch/ (Peanuts mirror Switzerland) 2.5 Software on CD There are currently two CD (sets) which serve you with NEXTSTEP/OpenStep software: Nebula. Nebula is published by Walnut Creek and mostly contains actual recompiled software for all supported hardware platforms. It might be the best choice for those who don't own a compiler. A big font collection and a developer section complete the disk. http://www.cdrom.com/ Peanuts Archive Disks. The Peanuts FTP Archive in Munich distributes their complete NEXTSTEP/OpenStep archive on CD. This currently brings you 4CDs full with software. Although the software isn't compiled for each hardware (it is provided 'as uploaded') it is the most complete software and information resource available on CD. (It includes the NeXTanswers published by NeXT). http://www.peanuts.org/, cdrom@peanuts.org Fatted Calf CD-ROM. The Fatted Calf CD-ROM is published by Ensuing Technologies, LasVegas, Nevada. Currently I don't know it's special contents. Big Green CD. Selected software for NEXTSTEP. Also this software is on any other CD, too. It might be a good startes collection. http://skylee.com/BGCD.html, ack@skylee.com Font Garden for NEXTSTEP CDROM. Some more fonts for computers running NEXTSTEP. These fonts should be capable of the NEXTSTEP encoding sheme. However we got noticed that only very few are ISO-LATIN_1. So it is possible of most interested to English speaking countries. http://www.cdrom.com/ Clips for QuickTime. Quicktime is NeXT's native format for movies, so some samples might be quite nice. Note: On the latest Peanuts Archive, you'll get about 200MB of quicktime movies which might be enough, too. http://www.cdrom.com/ 2.6 What is the current status of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep? status, NEXTSTEP status, OpenStep The third production version 3.3, has been released for Intel Processors (i486 and higher) as well as for NeXT hardware (not manufactured any longer but still supported), HP workstations and Sun workstations. OpenStep versions are announced and will be available this year (1996) for Windows NT, Windows 95, Mach, Solaris and hopefully HP-UX. The status for DEC machines and their OS (OSF/1, OpenVMS) is unknown. At least it is uncertain that there will be a port to OSF/1 or even OpenVMS, because DEC is doing the port alone. At least you can run OpenStep on DEC machines running Windows NT in the near future. For Sun's Solaris systems OpenStep will probably be part of the NeoDesktop. There will be no NEXTSTEP 4.0, because NeXT changed the naming conventions. NEXTSTEP 4.0 (also sometimes referenced as 'Mecca') is now named 'OpenStep for Mach' 2.7 Will there be a public implementation of OpenStep? Yes, there is a project by GNU. The so named GNUStep is available in pre-alpha state from the archive sites. Be aware that it is not fully functional and currently requires Motif. In its current state, GNUStep is on it's way to port the FoundationKit completely. This alone makes it worth to give it a try. 2.8 Are there differences between Openstep for Mach and other implementations? Yes there are. OpenStep for Mach will include all the well known features from NEXTSTEP (Services, Filters, SoundKit, ...) which the other implementations will lack, due to the underlying OS. To get all the benefits which is offered in NEXTSTEP today, you need to go for OpenStep for Mach. 2.9 What information is available by NeXT information NeXT NeXT, Inc. now operates an automatic e-mail response system. Send e-mail to "nextanswers@next.com" with the subject "ascii help index" to start. If you do have access to the world wide web, you even want to try the following URL: http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/. 2.10 What is the correct spelling? NeXT did (and probably will) change their naming conventions a lot. E.g. NEXTSTEP is the current correct spelling for their operating system. With the shipping of OpenStep, there will be no more NEXTSTEP, but OpenStep for Mach/Solaris/HP-UX/Windows95/Wind owsNT. Incorrect spellings are: NeXTSTEP, NeXTstep, NeXTStep. A common shortcut used in the newsgroups is: NS for NEXTSTEP. 2.11 How do I start an official NeXT User Group? NUG user groups NeXT user groups To start a user group, just send e-mail to user_groups@next.com. 2.12 Are there differences in the NEXTSTEP implementations? No, there are no differences beside the DSP, which is a hardware feature of NeXT computers. On other hardware platforms you have to buy additional hardware. 2.13 What are the names of the ftp sites that have NeXT-related files? FTP, servers There are too many to list them all, so are here are just a few. NEXTSTEP: next-ftp.peak.org ftp.peanuts.org nova.cc.purdue.edu sonata.cc.purdue.edu umd5.umd.edu ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de MIT GNU: aeneas.mit.edu MIT X: export.lcs.mit.edu music: princeton.edu 2.14 Additional information sources Additional information Information, additional Every NeXT machine owner has access to manuals to a degree. Network and System Administration (NSA), for example contains answers to many of the questions asked to comp.sys.next. Some of the important man pages are reproduced in the NSA as appendices. User manuals were shipped with every NeXT. Additional copies available from NeXT (N6002/N6003/N6014/N6026) $25. The following books are available directly from NeXT: * Operating System Software * NeXTstep Concepts * NeXTstep Reference, v. 1 * NeXTstep Reference, v. 2 * Development Tools * Sound, Music, and Signal Processing: Concepts * Sound, Music, and Signal Processing: Reference * Writing Loadable Kernel Servers * Technical Summaries * Supplemental Documentation Unix man pages, which are included in the online docs. BSD unix documentation (MISC, PS1, PS2, SMM, USD). Available from to USENIX site members. A lot of this has been integrated into the NeXT documentation. Some of this is sorely missing. The SMM Unix System Manager's Manual is really useful! USENIX Association 2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215 Berkeley, CA 94710 USA +1 510 528 8649 fax +1 510 548 5738 office@usenix.org * PS1 = Programmer's Supplementary Documents, Volume 1 * PS2 = Programmer's Supplementary Documents, Volume 2 * SMM = System Manager's Manual * USD = User's Supplementary Documents The SMM and the rest of the berkeley documentation are also available directly and for free via anon ftp e.g. from ftp.uu.net /packages/bsd-sources/share/doc. To format them properly for viewing and printing on the NeXT use nroff with the package indicated by the file suffix (e.g. to format the documentation file 0.t use nroff -mt 0.t). Adobe documentation. Available machine-readable by e-mail from ps-file-server@adobe.com. Hardcopy available from Adobe Developer Support Line +1 415 961-4111 for a nominal charge. NeXT last shipped these as part of the 1.0a release; hardcopies appeared in 0.9 Technical Documentation, were omitted in 1.0, and have returned in updated form in Supplemental Documentation of the 2.0 Tech Docs (which is not available on-line). Get NextAnswers for Digital Librarian from NeXT. The current versions are actually on ftp.next.com or available via the mailserver at nextanswers@next.com. Get NeXT Support Bulletin from the archives. It is meant for support centers. Another good source of information is the archives of previously posted notes from the comp.sys.next.* newsgroups. Note that since the split of comp.sys.next, there is a group archive maintained at ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/peanuts/GeneralData/Usenet. NeXTstep Advantage book is available electronically from the archive servers. The file name is NeXTstepAdvantage.tar.Z; (its compressed size is about 1.3 megabytes; uncompressed, it's about 9.5 megabytes). It is a good introduction to the NeXT programming environment. 2.15 How to get FTP files via e-mail. FTP, e-mail access Some ftp sites are configured as an e-mail archive server. This means you can upload and download files via e-mail. Send mail to: archive-server@cc.purdue.edu ------------- mail-server@cs.tu-berlin.de (with the subject line help and you will get a complete description of this service) Submissions: Mail should be sent to archive-server@cc.purdue.edu with the subject of 'submission' (no ticks) if a person is submitting material to the archives. They need to include a 1-2 sentence description of the submission, the OS release the product runs on, and if it is source, binary, newsletter, etc. 2.16 References on Objective C Objective-C, documents Objective-C and other useful Object-oriented programming references: Budd, Timothy, An Introduction to Object-Oriented Programming (Addison-Wesley) [It discusses Smalltalk, Object Pascal, C++ and Objective-C] Cox, Brad J., Object Oriented Programming: An Evolutionary Approach ISBN 0-201-10393-1. (Addison-Wesley) [Note: 2nd edition - ISBN is 0-201-54834-8 and has coauthor A.J. Novobilski] Huizenga, Gerrit, Slides from a short course on Objective-C available via anonymous ftp from: sonata.cc.purdue.edu:/pub/next/docs/ObjC.frame.Z, ObjC.ps.Z, or OldObjC.wn.tar.Z Meyer, Bertrand, Object-Oriented Software Construction (Prentice-Hall). NeXT Technical Documentation Pinson and Weiner, Objective-C: Object-Oriented Programming Techniques (Addison-Wesley). 350 pages, ISBN 0 201 50828 1, paperback. User Reference Manual for Objective-C which is available from Stepstone Corporation. (203)426-1875. Note: There are some differences between Stepstone's Objective-C and NeXT's. 2.17 How to contact music interested people. Music, contacts Since NeXT has become for now the platform of choice for much of the computer music composition and research community, the newsgroup comp.music is one good place to find people with information and interest in music on the NeXT. There is also a mailing list specifically for NeXT music. For posting to the dist list: nextmusic@horowitz.eecs.umich.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change addresses, etc.: nextmusic-request@horowitz.eecs.umich.edu 2.18 How to announce upcoming events Announcements Please send any announcements of upcoming NeXT-related events to next-announce@digifix.com These events will be posted to comp.sys.next.announce. Be sure to send your announcement in plenty of time to have it posted prior to the event. One to two weeks in advance would be a good idea. Since postings will be carried across many networks, commercial announcements may be edited down to reflect network usage policies. Look for current guidelines posted weekly in the newsgroup. 2.19 Can I mix different hardware running NEXTSTEP? NeXT, networking Networking Of course! NEXTSTEP is design to plug and play with existing NeXT installations. NeXT has addressed interoperability between NEXTSTEP systems in the following ways: * NEXTSTEP systems share identical networking capabilities. * NEXTSTEP systems share the same Distributed Objects. * NEXTSTEP systems use the same system and network administration services. * NEXTSTEP systems use the same mass storage format. Yes, you can take a external SCSI drive, removable media (e.g. Bernoulli etc) or floppy disk and use it interchangeably between NeXT Computers running NEXTSTEP. 2.20 Can I exchange software running on different hardware? With the shipping of NEXTSTEP 3.x binaries are distributed FAT. This means, that a binary might include different versions of the executable for each hardware platform NEXTSTEP is running on. On the archive sites you might easily recognize the supported h ardware by a key letter: N = NeXT computers, I=Intel based, H=HP hardware, S=Sun hardware. A FAT binary is runable by every supported hardware listed in the binary file. NeXT ships tools to examine such a fat binary and to add/strip different hardwa re modules to/from a binary. The correct spelling for a fat binary is: MAB binary (multi architecture binary) but most commonly 'fat' is used. With the shipping of OpenStep this will change. OpenStep applications are only sourcecode compatible and have to be recompiled for each architecture. This implies that you need a compiler for future PD/SW/FW-software, although OpenStep for Mach will still support FAT binaries and NEXTSTEP 3.x applications will continue to run under OpenStep for Mach. 3 WHAT IS ... What is ... This chapter tries to give you some overview over NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP software and related software. For a detailed description you should contact the producer's WWW server. E.g. for more information about OPENSTEP contact http://www.next.com/ 3.1 NEXTSTEP NEXTSTEP NEXTSTEP is a complete development and user environment by NeXT it provides an unique GUI (graphical user interface), which currently gets copied by several other OS provider like Microsoft, combined with the currently most advanced and tested OS, named Mach. NeXT applied several changes to the Mach kernel to add special features which makes NEXTSTEP unique. NEXTSTEP comes with a lot of development kits (bundles of classes to build on), like: Sound Kit, Indexing Kit, 3D Graphics Kit, Database or EOF Kit and Application Kit. Bundled with NEXTSTEP are several user applications which enhance the daily use dramatically: NeXTMail (a MIME compatible mail application), Edit (a simple but powerful editor), FaxReader (for reading incoming faxes, you are able to send faxes from every application which supports printing), DigitalWebster (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary and Collegiate Thesaurus), Digital Librarian (indexing and full text search utility, usable over groups of files) Preview (a PostScript and TIFF display utility), Terminal (UNIX terminal application for VT100 and TN3270 emulation), TeX (a well known compiler for formatted text), SYBASE and ORACLE adapters (to contact to SYBASE and ORACLE databases within EOF applications). One special thing about NEXTSTEP is the display system. NeXT uses DPS (Display Post Script), which gives you true WYSIWYG on every NEXTSTEP system. The window server supports PostScript Level II, Interactive RenderMan and Photorealistic RenderMan (an distributed engine for fast high quality rendering, based on Pixar's RenderMan). To be used in networks, NEXTSTEP supports NFS, NetInfo, Novell Netware (as client only), Ethernet and Token Ring and different filesystems (Mac, DOS, ISO 9660, High Sierra, Rock Ridge). For multimedia purposes NeXT uses Lempel-Ziv compression for text, Audio Transform Compression for Sound (comparable to Sony MiniDisc), JPEG for TIFF and Group 4 for Fax. Of course these are only standard modes and NEXTSTEP is extensible to use other methods too. For system administration (remember that NEXTSTEP is using Mach as an UNIX derivate), NeXT supplies several administration applications which make it easy to configure NEXTSTEP as needed, like: SimpleNetworkStarter, UserManager, PrintManager, NFSManager, HostManager, NetInfo Manager, BuildDisk, Upgrader and the complete documentation and manual pages online. 3.2 Mach Mach Mach is the the basic OS layer NeXT uses for NEXTSTEP. It is a micro kernel, which means it is extensible at runtime. Micro kernel often stands for a small kernel size, too, but due to the compatibility to BSD 4.3 Mach is currently about 1MB in size. Features of Mach are: loadable kernel services (extensions during runtime), different scheduling algorithms, an advanced messaging system, an advanced memory allocation mechanism (copy on demand, world wide message broadcasting), true multitasking, multi-threading and BSD compatibility. 3.3 OPENSTEP OPENSTEP OPENSTEP is the latest release of NeXT's NEXTSTEP with the ability to be OS independent (NEXTSTEP depends on Mach). OPENSTEP is currently available for Mach, Windows NT and Solaris and will get available for other operating systems in the future. The architecture of OPENSTEP was made public in late 1995 and since then GNU is working on a public port of OPENSTEP to e.g. X11 based UNIX systems. To express the new standard, 'OPENSTEP/Mach' is now the correct spelling for the formerly named NEXTSTEP product by NeXT, but it is known that NeXT itself is still using the same version numbering scheme for at least the Mach product line, so the first release of OPENSTEP for Mach is equivalent to NEXTSTEP 4.0 and in fact the first OPENSTEP product is named 'OPENSTEP/Mach 4.0'. OPENSTEP is supposed to be an industry standard for developing object oriented, system independent, scalable solutions for client/server architectures. It was adopted by Sun, Hewlett Packard and Digital. It provides distributed applications through PDO (Portable Distributed Objects) and D'OLE (Distributed OLE) based on CORBA. The usage of EOF supplies object persistence with traditional relational databases. And finally with WebObjects, objects are accessible through the internet or in your own private network. OPENSTEP, like NEXTSTEP 3.3 provides several kits for software developers like: Application Kit and Foundation Kit as well as Display PostScript. Applications written for OPENSTEP are sourcecode compatible to all other architectures running OPENSTEP, although fat binaries are only available under OPENSTEP for Mach (because the binary format is depending on the operating system). It's rumored, that OPENSTEP applications will also compile fine under Apple's new Rhapsody version. For the NEXTSTEP user OPENSTEP doesn't take away old known features. In addition with OPENSTEP for Mach you get Mach enhancements, an enhanced workspace manager, Perl5, TaylerUUCP, PPP and Samba. Old applications will continue to run under OPENSTEP for Mach and need to be recompiled to run under Windows NT, Solaris, and other OPENSTEP platforms. Which goes side by side to become true OPENSTEP applications- The following are some new advantages/disadvantages over the known NEXTSTEP product: * documented NEXTIME library for developing * faster message handling * handling of disks >2GB in automatically. Paritioning size is still limited to 2GB. * no Novell Netware support (supposed to be included with OPENSTEP 4.1) * Renderman still included * Indexing Kit available by third party (MiscKit) * no more POSIX! (Hopefully included again in OPENSTEP 4.1) 3.4 Objective-C Objective-C To develop applications NeXT uses Objective-C as its native programming language. Objective-C is a more strict OO language then C++ but covers C as well as C++. Because NeXT uses the GNU C/C++ compiler, you go with the most spreaded and tested C compiler available for most UNIX platforms of today. (Of course you can use Objective-C on every platform on which gcc is available). Objective-C is different to other languages in the way it executes code. Objective-C uses a runtime library to dynamically access objects at runtime. This allows you to change objects at runtime etc. All this goes with nearly no speed penalty, because hashing mechanisms are used to access the different methods of an object. There is also ObjC which is an different product, available as a commercial compiler for different operating systems. Don't mix up things by using the expression ObjC instead of Objective-C. For shortcut purposes the NeXT community also uses the term ObjC/Obj-C but of course thinks of Objective-C by NeXT. Objective-C isn't standardized, yet. In Objective-C you are able to mix code. E.g. you can use C++ and C in any Objective-C program. Objective-C is a simple and concise object-oriented extension to ANSI-C. It has a runtime messaging facility and offers dynamic binding. Distributed objects are supported and the code is optimized for native compilations. It's syntax and programming technique is much like in SmallTalk. Using Objective-C you can even message objects in other applications, also over a network! 3.5 NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Developer is currently the only way to develop applications under NEXTSTEP because it includes all the necessary include files and libraries.(Of course you can get any GNU C version precompiled, but it won't help you without the include files and linker libraries). In addition to a precompiled GCC, include files and the linker libraries you will get the famous NeXT developer tools: ProjectBuilder (your commando center for building applications and managing sources), InterfaceBuilder (for designing the application's GUI and making object connections), an graphical addition to GDB (GNU Debugger) integrated in Edit (NEXTSTEP) or ProjectBuilder (OPENSTEP), MallocDebug (for seeking memory leaks), HeaderViewer (access class information in header files and in documented form in a browser), DBModeler (for building data models, based on Database Kit) (NEXTSTEP only), Yap (an interactive PostScript interpreter and viewer), IconBuilder (a very simple but extensible pixel-based editor for creating icons) and popular UNIX utilities like GNU Emacs, yacc, lex, vi... 3.6 D'OLE D'OLE D'OLE is a shortcut for Distributed OLE. OLE is Microsoft's standard for Object Linking and Embedding and is currently not distributable across platforms. With D'OLE you can distribute OLE objects across the network like e.g. in SOM by IBM. But D'OLE is more. It uses NeXT's object model PDO (Portable Distributed Objects) from Unix to Windows platforms and enables OLE objects to communicate with OPENSTEP objects natively, which means without changing the application. OPENSTEP objects behave like OLE objects and vice versa. D'OLE also supports EOF (Enterprise Objects Framework) which enables a distributed computing environment to access database and provides an infinitely flexible choice of application deployment of application deployment strategies. D'OLE uses the Foundation Framework, Distributed Object Framework and other core classes. It comes bundled with C/Objective-C compiler and GNU make, although Microsoft Visual C++ is required. Further you get a portable nmserver, Mach emulation and on-line documentation. 3.7 PDO --- Portable Distributed Objects PDO PDO is a shortcut for Portable Distributed Objects. In the near future PDO will become CORBA 2.0 compliant. It is the industry's first product to provide a heterogeneous client/server framework on objects. With PDO it is possible to deploy objects on non-NEXTSTEP server Machines and therefore deployed anywhere in a network, wherever they are most appropriate for a task. PDO encapsulates low-level network protocols, making messaging a remote object as straightforward as messaging a local object. You even don't have to learn new programming tools or techniques, because PDO is a subset of NeXT tools and objects. Because PDO makes object location completely transparent to the application, the application communicates with every object the same way regardless wether it is local, in the local network or anywhere in the world. Because of the free location of objects, objects may get moved to other locations, e.g. to optimize performance, without modification of the application using it. PDO also runs on non-NEXTSTEP servers. It comes with it's own set of classes, libraries and even an Objective-C++ compiler, etc. Neverless you can build, maintain, etc. from any NEXTSTEP client connected to a PDO server. The tools used for building the final objects however are native to the server's OS. PDO comes with Foundation Framework, Distributed Objects Framework, DOEventLoop and other core classes. Bundled tools are: Objective-C++ compiler, GDB, libg++, GNU make, Portable BuildServer, Portable nmserver, Mach Emulation, NEXTSTEP's default system, on-line documentation. Currently supported platforms are: HP-UX, SunOS, Solaris, Digital UNIX. 3.8 EOF --- Enterprise Objects Framework EOF EOF is the latest replacement for the DatabaseKit and available as an extra product. EOF bridges the gap between objects and relational databases. With EOF you can bring the advantage of object oriented design etc. to applications which use relational databases. (Therefore you don't need an object oriented database!) EOF clarifies many things. It supports a three-tier client/server architecture by separating the user interface, business objects and the database. In fact you can simply exchange the database (by changing the adapter) and still use the same application! Developing under EOF doesn't limit you to e.g. Objective-C. EOF allows the integration of e.g. 4GL code as well as SQL etc. all combined under the advantage of NeXT's developer tools. EOF includes client and server software. It consists of the Enterprise Object Modeler, runtime libraries and adapters for SYBASE,ORACLE and Informix (other adapters available from the DBMS producers). It currently runs under HP-UX, SunOS, Solaris, Digital UNIX and always requires PDO. For client use you additionally need NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. 3.9 WebObjects WebObjects WebObjects helps you building dynamic Web pages. It is targeted to the server side of the Web and there mostly to the intranets, also most people might find it very useful for the Internet, too. It is operating system independent and runs under Windows NT, Solaris, HP-UX, Digital UNIX and NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. WebObjects contains development tools to build components for your application logic, as well as a set of reusable components to manage the rendering of your application. Because WebObjects is Java compatible, you even can integrate Java applets in your application today. It supports the standard http servers which have to support CGI or NSAPI interface. WebObjects supports database access to Informix, Oracle, Sybase and DB/2. What's unique about WebObjects is the ability to share the logic of your Web application and your data with other internal applications. It means that you are not required to maintain a dedicated database or write specific application code for your Web application. Currently there are three versions of WebObjects: WebObjects, WebObjects Pro and WebObjects Enterprise. WebObjects itself is freely available to anybody interested in. WebObjects Pro contains PDO and WebObjects Enterprise contains PDO and EOF with a special license to connect to the Internet. But because WebObjects is a brand new product, look at http://www.next.com/WebOjects/ for further information. WebObjects is free for academic usage. 3.10 Rhapsody Rhapsody Rhapsody is the code name for Apple's new operating system, based on BSD 4.4 and OPENSTEP frameworks. Because it's not released yet, we don't talk about it. (Also we could, of course, spread some details, but it would only produce more noise.) Please refer to http://www.apple.com/, http://www.devworld.apple.com/, http://www.macrumors.com/, http://www.rhapsodyos.com/ for more details 3.11 WWW Browser WWW Browser Browser OmniWeb NetSurfer SpiderWoman NetScape First: There is no Java capable browser. Several NEXTSTEP browsers are available for NEXTSTEP. The currently most advanced browser is named 'OmniWeb'. OmniWeb is commercial in the way that you need a license to use it in a network. A single user license is free. OmniWeb seems to be continuesly updated and support is known to be good. OmniWeb is also supporting a lot of well known Netscape features. There is also a public domain WWW browser named 'SpiderWoman'. It's plus is the NEXTSTEP look and feel (e.g. you navigate through the Web like you navigate your filesystem with WorkspaceManager). Anyway SpiderWoman is somehow unstable and it seems as if development stopped. Another commercial browser is NetSurfer. Demos are available on the ftp sites. This browser is preferred by several people because it integrates ftp access very well. Anyway you have to pay for it. Netscape isn't available for NEXTSTEP and is unlikely to be ported. 3.12 Newsreader Newsreader Alexandra NewsGrazer NewsFlash RadicalNews There are currently four well known newsreaders for NEXTSTEP. First there is Alexandra, a public domain newsreader and second there is NewsGrazer (and unsupported NeXT product). You should test them to get your personal favorite. The only real difference is the support of NEXTSTEP 3.3J (Japanese) and flatfiles in NewsGrazer, while the interface in Alexandra seems to be better for many people. NewsFlash is a commercial product which adds several features. As RadicalNews it supports article threading, automated posting and extraction of multi-part files. Demos are available on the ftp sites. E-mail inquiries should go to support@wolfware.com. Further info is available at: http://www.wolfware.com/ RadicalNews is a commercial newsreader. It supports true article threading, quoted text highlighting, japanese and Latin-1 support, URL-support, an interface to Digital Librarian, a sophisticated coloring scheme and much more. Info is available at: http://www.radical.com/. A note to both commercial versions: the community is very splitted about which version is to prefer. In general it seems as if there are no really 'killer features' so it prefers much to personal taste. Demos are available and don't forget to test the free versions, too! 4 MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION Misc Various Unsorted 4.1 How do I get pictures of people from remote sites to appear in Mail.app and NewsGrazer? Pictures, in Mail Pictures, in NewsGrazer Mail, remote Pictures Newsgrazer, remote Pictures You can do this in the following ways. * Mail In /LocalLibrary/Images/People put a tiff (64x64) in the form of person@remote.site.domain.tiff (all lowercase). In /LocalLibrary/Images/People/passwd add an entry for the person: person@remote.site.domain:*:-2:-2::/nodir:/noshell (person and sitename need to be all lowercase as well) In the future anytime you get mail from the person their picture should appear. You can include an "aliases" file in /LocalLibrary/Images/People too. This allows you to use the same picture for somebody that might send you mail from accounts on many different sites, or for those people whose letters use several different routings. To do this, you include entries in this local aliases file like so: bkohler@ucrac1.ucr.edu:bkohler.gonzo.ucr.edu gonzo.ucr.edu!bkohler@uupsi2.uucp:bkohler.gonzo.ucr.edu There should then be a .tiff file called bkohler.gonzo.ucr.edu.tiff. There can be no CAPITAL LETTERS in this file. So even if the address in the From: field looks like gonzo.ucr.edu!bkohler@uupsi2.UUCP, keep the letters lowercase in the aliases file. As always, you have to restart Mail before these changes take effect. * NewsGrazer In /LocalLibrary/NewsGrazer/People put a tiff (64x64) in the form of person.remote.site.domain (all lowercase). This is a different naming convention from what Mail uses. There is a large archive of some 4000 or 5000 pictures prepared for this purpose. The name of this archive is Faces3.tar.Z and it is about 4.1 MBytes large. Currently it is available from several anonymous ftp sites (e.g. sonata.cc.purdue.edu in: /pub/next/graphics/Images/icons/people) That image archive also contains a script which automatically creates proper alias and passwd files. 4.2 How to manipulate and examine default settings * A command line utility for examining defaults is available from: sutro.sfsu.edu:/pub/wmdefaults1.0.tar.Z * A PD App, DefaultMgr.app, is available on the NeXT ftp archives. * A more brute approach (done by DefaultMgr.app): Start the application under gdb, and then try the following sequence of commands: break *0x500976a commands 1 silent printf "%s: ", *$a2 output {char *}(4+$a2) echo \n cont end run [Carl Edman ] adds: DefaultMgr.app doesn't any longer work properly under 3.0. It still is able to manipulate defaults but can't any longer "investigate" apps to find out which defaults they use. [eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU (Eric P. Scott)] adds: Needs to be revised for 3.x systems. wmdefaults is only for 2.x; it's not needed for 3.0 and later. 4.3 How do I run NextApps remotely? Remote running On the local machine make sure you have public window server access, this is set from the Preferences application. On the foreign NeXT machine run the application from a terminal window with the -NXHost . Both machines should be running the same version of NeXTstep. [shayman@Objectario.com (Steve Hayman)] NeXTSTEP 3.1 and higher includes a demo application called OpenSesame that simplifies this. You can select a program in Workspace and use > Service > Open Sesame > Open on Another Host ...to launch a program on a remote machine. This is a way to run old, non-fat-binary software on new NeXTSTEP/Intel machines. 4.4 Why does UUCP hangs on outgoing connections after sending the password, but other communications software do not have a problem with it? UUCP What is happening is that the remote machine is waiting for you to end your login or password by typing a "Return" (aka &Mcirc; or CR or CARRIAGE RETURN). UUCP ends a line by sending a LineFeed (aka Ĵ or LF). Since UUCP doesn't send the CR, the login sequence is never completed, and you will usually get one of two error messages: wanted "password:" (means that username needs to end with a CR) imsg waiting for SYNC< (means that password needs to end with CR) So how do you get UUCP to send CR, instead of LF? End the send string with the sequence n c. For instance this line in L.sys will send a LF after login, but a CR after password. myfeed Any DIR 9600 cub "" ATTD19095551212 9600 \ "" ogin:--ogin: Unext ssword: secret\n\c 4.5 How do I access the NeXT's Digital Webster Dictionary from a program? Webster Get Jiro Nakamura's define program from the archiver servers: define.tar.Z. This will allow you to access the database from the command line. This program breaks under 3.x. For 3.x there are two other programs which might be useful: Webster.a5 and websterd. 4.6 How do I get the arrow keys to work in csh? csh, arrow keys This is for people who use a terminal app that does vt100 keyboard emulation - pasc First, add these lines to your .cshrc (preferably between the if and endif): set editmode=emacs set macrofiles=.macros Then create a file called .bindings and put in it: bind-to-key ExecuteNamedMacro '\e[' And, next, you need to make a file called ".macros". Using an editor like emacs (which can insert control characters using a &Qcirc; prefix), into this file put: A^@^@^@^A^P B^@^@^@^A^N C^@^@^@^A^F D^@^@^@^A^B where &@circ; means Control-@ and ƒ means Control-A, etc. Also, don't put in the leading spaces. This will set up the left and right arrows to move back and forth on the line, and the up and down arrows will cycle through your history. On Intel machines these sequences are a little different: A^A^@^@^@^P B^A^@^@^@^N C^A^@^@^@^F D^A^@^@^@^B Then source .cshrc and the changes should take effect. 4.7 What default affects menu location? Menu, location Do the following. dwrite GLOBAL NXMenuX <value> dwrite GLOBAL NXMenuY <value> 4.8 How to get Gourmet to boot up the Mathematica 2.0 kernel? Mathematica Login as root, or get root privileges running su, and execute the following five commands: mkdirs /NextApps/Mathematica.app/Kernel/NeXT cd /NextApps/Mathematica.app/Kernel ln -s uuuuu/Mathematica.app/Kernel/Display Utilities cd NeXT ln -s vvvvv/math mathexe where uuuuu is the directory where Mathematica was placed (typically, /LocalApps) and vvvvv is the directory where the executable math was placed (typically, /usr/local/bin) 4.9 Manipulating the Loginwindow loginwindow dwrites There are some for loginwindow: [Jess Anderson writes:] Here, I hope, is the quasi-definitive story on dwrites that affect the loginwindow. I'm indebted to several people, notably Art Isbell, Kristian Koehntopp, Dan Danz, Louie Mamakos, John Kheit, Felix Lugo, and Paul Sears, for some of the information presented here. Remember that dwrites are not supported by NeXT; they may change with any subsequent system release. These I've checked out using 3.0; some or all may work with earlier releases, but I can't vouch for most of them. All these dwrites must be done as root. You can also run as root and use DefaultMgr to set them (which is a whole lot more convenient if you're intending to fiddle with some of them). After setting the things you want, restart the WindowServer by logging out of the current session and typing exit on the login panel. OK, here's what we know (or think we do :-): dwrite loginwindow DefaultUser <login-name> Most new machines have set to me. This dwrite logs in user automatically. User must not have a password set, hence don't use this in a networked environment! dwrite loginwindow HostName "<host_name>" dwrite loginwindow HostName localhost These cause your host name to appear on the login panel. You need quote marks only if there's a space in the name. The first form hard-codes the name into root's defaults database. The second form uses whatever name has been set as localhost in NetInfo, which is convenient for networked machines. The font, size, color, and position of the printed string are not accessible (drat!). dwrite loginwindow ImageFile <path/to/a/suitable.tiff> This uses the tiff image pointed to instead of the standard one (in /usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow.app/English.lproj/nextlogin.tiff, .lproj as appropriate for your main language) as the login panel. Be sure you get the pointer right, though, or you'll have to boot single-user to fix it. In practical terms, the image is constrained in various ways I won't detail here. dwrite loginwindow TimeToDim <integer_number> No relation to the dim time set by Preferences. The units are odd, I think. Felix reported them as 1/34 second. However, when I changed it to 1020, I got 15 seconds to dimming, and 680 gives 10 seconds, that I'm sure of. So I think the units are 1/68 second. Maybe Felix just thought it was too damn long! We all know it seems longer when you're not having fun waiting. :-) Whatever, the login screen dims to about half after this length of time. dwrite loginwindow MoveWhenIdle YES This causes the panel to move around approximately in Backspace bouncing-off-the-walls-tiff fashion. The point is to avoid burning the screen phosphors, as a static image would tend to do. The animation is controlled by the next couple dwrites. dwrite loginwindow MovementTimeout <real_number> The units are seconds. The panel starts moving (assuming the preceding is set to YES) after this time. If you set it to be less than the TimeToDim time, the movement starts before the dimming occurs. I did not try zero. I can't stand waiting around for things to happen, so I use 10 seconds for both times. The default appears to be 5 minutes. dwrite loginwindow MovementScale <integer_number> No movement occurs if this is set to 1. But it looks like the units might be approximately pixels for each change of position (the frequency of which is controlled by the next dwrite). If you put a big number here, say 200, the image moves in big jumps, but I don't know if the 200 is divided up somehow between change in x- and y-coordinates. I wouldn't worry about it much, just set it to something you like. Since my image contains readable text, I want it to scroll smoothly around, so I use the apparently minimum value, 2. The default appears to be 10. dwrite loginwindow MovementRate <real_number> The units are seconds. The image jumps by the amount above every this many seconds. The default is 0.0666 seconds. Bigger numbers mean slower motion. Since I don't like things being too jumpy or zooming around, I set this to 0.1 seconds. This makes my image ooze at a pace befitting an elderly person like me. dwrite loginwindow PowerOffDisabled YES This makes it a little harder to turn the machine off; you have to use the monitor or the minimonitor (- ) if it's set, rather than the key. dwrite loginwindow LoginHook <path/to/loginhook/executable> dwrite loginwindow LogoutHook <path/to/logouthook/executable> Pointers to the login and logout hooks, if used. It should be pointed out that some of these things (login/logout hooks, for example) are maybe more logically set where the loginwindow is invoked by the WindowServer, namely /etc/ttys. There are yet others. Here's the full list (thanks, Art): NXGetDefaultValue("loginwindow", "DebugHook") => 0x0 NXGetDefaultValue("loginwindow", "DryRun") => 0x0 NXGetDefaultValue("loginwindow", "WindowServerTimeout") => 0x0 NXRegisterDefaults("loginwindow", 0x16024) KeyMapPath: 0x12d97 "~/Library/Keyboards:/LocalLibrary/Keyboards:/NextLibrary/Keyboards" Keymap: 0x12de1 "/NextLibrary/Keyboards/USA" SwappedKeymap: 0x12e0a "No" LoginHook: 0x0 LogoutHook: 0x0 HostName: 0x0 ImageFile: 0x0 DefaultUser: 0x12e41 "me" PowerOffDisabled: 0x0 TimeToDim: 0x12e69 "2040" MoveWhenIdle: 0x12e0a "No" MovementTimeout: 0x12e8b "300.0" MovementRate: 0x12e9e "0.06666" MovementScale: 0x12eb4 "10" [Christopher J. Kane kane@cs.purdue.edu] Under NeXTSTEP 3.1, the login window has two buttons labeled "Reboot" and "Power" that allow a user to reboot and power down from the login window. In a public lab, this feature may be undesirable. The PowerOffDisabled default can be used to disable the buttons, but they are still shown in the window and push in when clicked (a bad user interface decision, IMHO). The program below patches loginwindow to eradicate the restart and power buttons. It makes the loginwindow's LoginButton class instance method initWithImage:altImage:andString: a no-op (just return nil). This patch has been applied to the machines in the NeXT lab at Purdue (like sonata.cc.purdue.edu for instance), and no adverse effects have been noted. This program must be run as root, since it writes to the file /usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow.app/loginwindow. An archive with a compiled executable has been submitted to sonata.cc.purdue.edu. /* * Patches the loginwindow.app to eradicate the restart and power * buttons from the login window. * * Christopher J. Kane (kane@cs.purdue.edu) * Released into public domain; August 13, 1993. */ #include <libc.h> #include <errno.h> void main(int argc, char *argv[]) { unsigned char patch[8] = {0x0, 0x0, 0x42, 0x80, 0x4e, 0x5e, 0x4e, 0x75}; int file = open("/usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow.app/loginwindow", O_WRONLY); if (-1==file) goto error; if (-1==lseek(file, 21170, SEEK_SET)) goto error; if (-1==write(file, patch, 8)) goto error; if (-1==close(file)) goto error; exit(0); error: fprintf(stderr, "%s: %s\n", argv[0], strerror(errno)); exit(1); } FAQ-Authors note: We strongly recommend to do a backup of the loginwindow application, because the patch alters the file directly and will most likely not work on different versions of the OS. 4.10 How does one set UNIX man pages to be viewed in nroff format with DL like the standard manual pages in NS2.x? man pages, NS2.x Beyond looking in the man pages under ixBuild, etc., what you want to do is put a few files (contents listed below file name) the .index directory: .roffArgs: -man displayCommand: tbl %s | nroff -man ixBuildOptions: -fman -Nwhatis -Ncat[1-8ln] -V Other options that people suggested for ixBuildOptions: -fman -Nwhatis -Ncat[1-8] -V /usr/local/man -fman -Nwhatis -V /usr/local/man/man* I don't think you need to explicitly name the directory in the first alternative, but you do in the second unless you want the cat* directories indexed as well. Note: Do NOT leave a trailing return after the line in ixBuildOptions; DL will barf. (I think someone said that, as shipped, the standard man .index/ixBuildOptions had this problem.) [From: Eric D. Engstrom ] Can anyone tell me what the command line for this might be under NEXTSTEP 3.0? Short answer: RTM on ixbuild(1) - specifically the parameter "-g". In addition, I'd like to inform the newsgroup of a simple hack I setup on my own machine to create a unified DL target for all UNIX Manual pages (including system, local, gnu, whatever). This was easier under 2.x because IXBuild (pre IXKit) had more hacks in it... Basically, you need to setup a directory with sym-links to the various man-page directories; For example: (397)basilisk% pwd /LocalLibrary/Documentation/ManPages (398)basilisk% ls -alg total 728 drwxrwxr-x 2 eric wheel 1024 Mar 28 18:03 ./ drwxrwxr-x 11 root wheel 1024 Mar 27 00:41 ../ -rw-r--r-- 1 eric wheel 370 Feb 27 22:01 .README -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 872 Feb 27 17:11 .dir.tiff -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 20 Feb 27 17:11 .displayCommand -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 47 Feb 27 17:10 .index.iname -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 6 Feb 27 17:10 .index.itype -rw-r--r-- 1 eric wheel 729088 Mar 28 18:44 .index.store -rw-rw-r-- 1 eric wheel 5 Feb 27 17:11 .roffArgs lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 18 Feb 27 17:53 gnu -> /usr/local/gnu/man/@ lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 14 Feb 27 17:53 local -> /usr/local/man/@ lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 9 Feb 27 17:53 news -> /news/man/@ lrwxrwxrwx 1 eric wheel 35 Feb 27 17:53 system -> /usr/man/@ Notice that I also copied all the .[a-z]* files from the /usr/man/ directory as well. Then, use ixbuild -gl to (re)build the index. If your any of the links point to directories on other devices, add "d" to "-gl". "-v" will give you verbose output (like my writing style ;-). RTM under ixbuild(1) for more info. Unfortunately, once the index is built, I've never successfully gotten DL to update it correctly. Instead I have to do it by hand using ixbuild -ogldvc (actually, I setup a cron job to reindex weekly.) If you have troubles, try removing the .index.store file and rebuilding the entire database. I've had intermittent problems with ixbuild under 3.0. 4.11 Appending a signature and addition headers to your e-mail .signature signature Mail There is a bundle for Mail to which, beside other features, allows you to add a .signature file to outgoing e-mails: EnhancedMail.bundle. This software package is available by the FTP archive sites. Here are other solutions which might serve you as well: [Carl Edman ] First create a simple text file the following content: #!/bin/sh { if test -r ${HOME}/.add-header; then cat ${HOME}/.add-header; fi cat - if test -r ${HOME}/.signature; then echo "--"; cat ${HOME}/.signature; fi }| /usr/lib/sendmail "$@" A good name for this file would be sendmail-addheader. If you want to and can install it for system-wide use put this file in e.g. /usr/lib. Otherwise your private /Unix/bin directory is also fine. Make certain that this file has execute permission. To set that, use e.g. chmod 755 /usr/lib/sendmail-addheader. Next, open up the preferences panel in Mail. Switch to the expert options. Change the Mailer option from /usr/lib/sendmail (which it should originally be) to /usr/lib/sendmail-addheader (or whatever the name of the file you created is). OK this and you should be set. From now on your file /.signature file should always be appended to all mail sent out with Mail.app. In addition if you have a file called add-header in your home-directory it should automatically be prepended to your outgoing mail. To implement a reply-to line, you would simply give it the following content: Reply-to: My Real Human Name <name@my.real.address> IMPORTANT: Make certain that you have one and exactly one newline at the end of /.add-header. Anything might break outgoing mail. Beware! BUG: The /.signature file is not added properly for NeXT mail containing attachments. The headers will still be added properly. This could be fixed but probably is more of a hassle than it is worth. [From: jbrow@radical1.radical.com (Jim Brownfield)] I have added a Terminal Service to terminal to add a signature file whenever I type "0" (command/zero), and I thought this might be of interest to people who read your FAQ. I have used this technique for over a year with no problems, and it has the advantage of working both with non-NeXT and NeXT Mail. First, you must create a file with your signature containing the characters "--" on the first line (there has been some discussion as to whether this should be "-- " ("--" followed by a blank), but my file only has the "--" as the first line. The rest of the file should contain your normal signature. If you place the file in your home directory, I recommend NOT using the filename ".signature" for this file since it may conflict with other programs (like NewsGrazer). I use the filename ".fullSignature". The file used for the signature should be ascii and not RTF to allow the file to be used for NeXT and non-NeXT mail. You can create a "Get signature" service by launching Terminal and accessing the "Terminal Services" window through the "Info/Terminal Services..." menu item. Then perform the following: 1. Create a new service by clicking on the "New" button. Change the service name to "Get signature". 2. Add the command "cat " and "0" (zero) to the "Command and Key Equivalent" entry. The "0" is obviously arbitrary, but I've found that it doesn't conflict with any of the commands I normally use. 3. De-select any items checked within the "Accept" grouping. Select the "As Input" radio button under the "Use Selection" section. 4. Change the "Execution" popup to "Run Service in the Background". Select the "Return Output" and "No Shell" radio buttons. 5. Click the "Save" button. Now, when you type "0" (actually, from any application), your signature will be added wherever your cursor is located (be careful not to have text selected as it will replace the selected text with your signature). I have found this to be very convenient for adding my .sig to outgoing mail. 4.12 How can I quickly find a file if I don't know its directory? searching, files find The Unix find command on the NeXT has the capability of quickly searching a database of all the files. This database is located in /etc/find.codes and has to be generated periodically. You can automatically generate this database, say twice a week at 3:15 a.m., by adding this line to your file /etc/crontab.local (you might have to create this file). 15 03 * * 2,5 root /usr/lib/find/updatedb > /usr/adm/updatedb.err After this has run, you can quickly find any file from a terminal by typing find where is a part of the file name you want (it is case-sensitive). [Carl Edman ] adds: Find still works under 3.0, but now has to match the entire filename (including the path) for a match to be recognized i.e. where under 2.x you would have find foobar, under 3.0 you have find '*foobar*' (The ' are necessary to prevent the shell from expanding the wildcards itself). [From: Geert Jan van Oldenborgh ] I find the following script in /usr/local/bin very handy to bring back the behavior that God Intended find to have: #!/bin/csh if ( $#argv == 1 ) then /usr/bin/find \*$1\* else set noglob /usr/bin/find $argv[1-] unset noglob endif 4.13 Mail.app suddenly stopped working! Mail, doesn't start When I double-click the Mail.app icon it loads and seems to start but then just terminates. How can I fix this ? Usually the problem is caused by Mail.app being terminated with extreme prejudice such as by a power outage or kill -9. Under those circumstances Mail.app may leave a lock file in your active mailbox. Due to a bug 3.0 Mail.app doesn't ask for permission to override this lock when started up again but just dies. Open a shell and look in /Mailboxes/Active.mbox. If this directory contains a file called .lock you have found the culprit. You can safely remove this file. 4.14 Recycler doesn't work anymore?! Recycler For some reason, after moving my home directory, my recycler no longer works? [From: eric%basilisk@src.honeywell.com (Eric D. Engstrom)] Basically, when you dump a file in the recycler, the workspace manager (attempts) to move it to one of the following locations: (note: no order implied here, because I'm unsure of the actual order used) - $HOME/.NeXT/.NextTrash (Should always exist; unsure what happens if it doesn't) - /tmp/.NextTrash_$USER Automatically created if non-existent) - $MNT-POINT/.NextTrash/$USER (.NextTrash NOT automatically created if non-existent) Also, the workspace requires that the trash directory into which it puts the to-be-deleted file be on the same disk partition that the file originally came from (for speed, I assume). Also, an example of the permissions for the external disk .NextTrash directory (which is not automatically created) should be : ls -aldg /private/mnt2/local/.NextTrash drwxrwxrwt [...] /private/mnt2/local/.NextTrash/ Note: /private/mnt2/local is the mount point. Do chmod 1777 .NextTrash to get the permissions right. Thus, if you moved your home directory from one partition to another, the one you left may not have a "recycler-repository" to use. 4.15 How to hear sound from CDPlayer.app thought NEXTSTEP system? digital audio CDPlayer To hear sound, the following info is important. [Carl Edman ] Hearing the sound directly on the NeXT can be done with the play3401 program from the archives if you have a Toshiba 3401 series drive. Theoretically this can also be done with NEC [78]4-1s and Apple CD 300s, though I know of no NeXT program which supports them. Most other drives (including the NeXT CD-ROM) just don't have the hardware to do it. There is another player available: CD_evil, which is based on play3401 but offers a GUI. FAQ-Authors note: On Intel system it's very easy: just connect the CD-Audio out (internal) to your CD-in of the soundcard (internal). Anyway there are problems with different drives. E.g. we know, that the Toshiba, Sony and Nec drives currently use the same instruction set to access audio data. So be aware that there are drives which simply can't be accessed through CDPlayer. 4.16 How do I decompress a file with the extension .compressed? .compressed compress uncompress gnutar tar gzip gunzip Do this with the following methods. [From: sanguish@digifix.com] .compressed files have been compressed in the Workspace Manager. Basically, they are just .tar.Z files. Even single files are tarred as well as compressed. There are several methods of decompressing these files. 1. They can be decompressed by selecting them in the Workspace, and Selecting uncompress from the file menu. 2. They can be decompressed by selecting them in the Workspace, and bringing up the Workspace Inspector. (You can double click to get there faster) 3. You can rename them to be .tar.Z and handle them the way you do them. FAQ-Authors note: use uncompress to access the .Z files and/or gunzip to access .z/.gz files. Use tar to access .tar files. You might also you gnutar to access both together, e.g. to access a .tar.gz at once. Read the man pages for more information. 4.17 How do I change the Workspace compression app? compress gzip gunzip dwrites Change it with the given method. [Stephen Peters ] You can change the tools that the Workspace uses to create and read its .compressed files by issuing the following commands in a terminal window: dwrite Workspace compress /usr/bin/gzip dwrite Workspace uncompress /usr/bin/gunzip dwrite Workspace AlwaysTarForCompress YES [Reuven M. Lerner reuven@the-tech.mit.edu] This is generally a good thing, except that people might follow your advice and then try to send NeXTmail to someone who is still using compress/uncompress. Changing Workspace/uncompress to gunzip isn't a problem, since it uncompresses all sorts of files, but people should be very careful not to change Workspace/compress to gzip unless they will only be dealing with other gzip-equipped users. 4.18 console: loginwindow: netinfo problem - No such directory. netinfo problem, /keyboard directory is missing. It's benign... but annoying. niutil -create . /keyboard Fixed in 2.1 and up. 4.19 Root login not possible on client machine root login A number of people have complained about the situation where root can log onto the configuration server, but not its clients. Login proceeds normally, then a window with "Workspace error Internal error (signal 10)" pops up. Other users are not affected. This scenario occurs with NetBooted clients that are not permitted root access to / via the server's /etc/exports file, either via an explicit root= option or (the most heinous) anon=0. For security reasons many sites will NOT want to permit such access. Note that what you're up against is only a Workspace Manager misfeature; there's no problem logging in as root on the real UNIX console, or logging in as a non-root user and then using "su" to obtain root privileges. Root access is needed to: * Log in a root Workspace. * Perform BuildDisk on a client. * Run the GuidedTour demo for the first time subsequent invocations will not autologin, but they will run just fine if you log in as NextTour (no password). It is not required to perform updates on the local NetInfo database, for any normal user operations, nor to run programs requiring root access on the server using -NXHost. 4.20 How to boot NEXTSTEP from the second (higher SCSI ID) HD? Boot, from higher SCSI ID Boot, from second drive Use the following command. bsd(1,0,0) -a which will then ask you for the drive to use as the root disk, or still easier, bsd(1,0,0)sdmach rootdev=sd1 In the boot command the name of the bootfile can be replaced by '-'. This is very useful as the length of the bootcommand which can be stored in the permanent memory is very limited (on NeXT machines only). So the only way to eg. increase the number of buffers permanently to 128 in the boot command is to use the following boot command: sd- nbu=128 (sdmach nbu=128 would have been too long). 4.21 How to make swapfile shrink to the normal size? swapfile The swapfile is located in /private/vm. The only current way to make it shrink is to reboot the machine. See the man pages for swaptab for more information. Note, that putting a space after the comma in /etc/swaptab (lowat=,hiwat=) makes swapon ignore the hiwat entry. There is a short trick which seems to work for several people: type exit in the login panel. This will exit the window server and restart it immediatly. If you are lucky, this will reclaim some space. 4.22 Does netinfo work between machines running NEXTSTEP 2.x and 3.x? netinfo Yes. 4.23 Why does the console user "own" the external disk filesystem? filesystem, external You need an entry in /etc/fstab so the disk will be mounted at boot time, rather than being "automounted" when somebody logs in. Automounted disks are owned by whoever logged in, fstab-mounted disks are owned by root. Something like this: /dev/sd0a / 4.3 rw,noquota,noauto 0 1 /dev/sd1a /Disk 4.3 rw,noquota 0 2 (assuming the external disk is to be mounted as /Disk) fstab should be niloaded into the Netinfo database if it contains any NFS mounts. 4.24 How to limit coredump sizes? coredump, size limit Limit it by the following command. This will work for apps running from a shell. limit coredumpsize 0 If your dock or workspace apps are dumping core, there's also: dwrite Workspace CoreLimit <bytesize> 4.25 What is the maximum value of nbuf that I can specify on bootup? buffers, ROM I know the ROM monitor only allows twelve characters, but I use something like this: bsd sdmach nbuf=xxx (NeXT machines only) Enter the hardware monitor. Hit 'p' to adjust the configuration parameters. It will respond: Boot command: ? Enter sd- nbu=xxx, where xxx is a number less than 256. 4.26 How can I change the mouse pointer shape and color? Maybe this could point you into the right direction. Pipe it to pft and see what happens.... %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-2.0 %%BoundingBox: 0 0 16 16 %%EndComments 0 0 16 16 Retained window dup windowdeviceround gsave 16 16 scale 16 16 4 [16 0 0 -16 0 16] {< ffffffff00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0d0fffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0d0f0d0fffff000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0d0ffd0f0d0fffff00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fffffd0ffd0ffd0ffd0fffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fffffd0ff50ff50ff50ffd0fffff000000000000000000000000000000000000 fffff50ff50ff50ff50ff50ff50fffff00000000000000000000000000000000 fffff50fd00fd00fd00fd00fd00f908fffff0000000000000000000000000000 ffffd00fd00fd00fd00fd00fd00f908f908fffff000000000000000000000000 ffffd00fd00fd00f908f908fffffffffffffffffffff00000000000000000000 ffff908f908fffff00ff00ffffff000000000000000000000000000000000000 ffff908fffff0000ffff00ff00ffffff00000000000000000000000000000000 ffffffff00000000ffff00ff00ffffff00000000000000000000000000000000 ffff0000000000000000ffff00ff00ffffff0000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000ffff00ff00ffffff0000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000ffffffff00000000000000000000000000000000 >} false 3 alphaimage grestore gstate nextdict /_NXSharedGrayAlpha get NX_TwelveBitRGB 1 index setwindowdepthlimit windowdeviceround 0 0 16 16 5 4 roll 0 32 Copy composite nulldevice termwindow Maybe somebody wants to write some kind of "pointer editor"? There is also a commercial application named 'MouseMagic' which handles this and custom acceleration modes. 4.27 How do I customize BuildDisk to create a bootable disk of my own configuration? BuildDisk, customization The BuildDisk application is extremely limited in terms of the types of disks configuration it knows how to build. Essentially it "knows" about swapdisks, optical disks, 330 and 660 MB SCSI disks. If you wish to do custom configurations you should look at existing BLD script files in /etc/BLD.* There is a script which you can use to specify which BLD script you are using, which disktab entry, and other useful parameters in /usr/etc/builddisk Some things to note: * the fstab installed on the target disk is specified in the newclient command in the BLD script. standard fstabs are extracted from /usr/template/client/fstab.* * the BLD scripts do not put down a new boot block on the scsi disk, you may want to install one by hand using the /usr/etc/disk program. * some disks boot fine but NeXTstep comes up with a blank window and no login window. This is due sometimes to forgetting to install an accessible /NextLibrary/{Fonts,Sounds}. In general you need quite a lot of things to make a bootable disk. You can build a minimally usable bootable floppy (for crash recovery purposes). There is a modified version of builddisk (to make it support building floppies, a minimal change) and a BLD script to build the boot floppy available at cs.orst.edu in next/sources/Bootfloppy.tar.Z. (I put this together in response to several requests.) A newer version of Bootfloppy for 2.1 is on the archives as next/sources/util/Bootfloppy2.1.tar.Z. Also available from the archives is BootFloopy 3.x (for --- you guessed it --- NEXTSTEP 3.x). I might also add that one can improve on disk usage while enhancing functionality. BuildDisk (which is used by the various BootFloppy scripts) just copies the standard binaries for ls, mv, cp aso. from /bin. These binaries are statically linked as shipped by NeXT which makes them huge. (e.g. /bin/ls is 106496 bytes large. /usr/local/bin/gls with more features is just 16268 bytes). If you replace these binaries by the BSD or GNU equivalents you can save several hundred kBytes on your boot floppy. This extra diskspace can be used for tar, dump and more tools which makes the boot floppy actually usable. Tested. 4.28 Are there any more dwrites useful for the workspace, ...? dwrite, misc There a lot of dwrite useful for you. (self explanatory) dwrite Workspace compress /usr/bin/gzip dwrite Workspace uncompress /usr/bin/gunzip dwrite Workspace AlwaysTarForCompress Yes dwrite Workspace DockOrginX (some number) dwrite Workspace DockOrginY (some number) dwrite Workspace DockOffsetX -1057 (leftmost) dwrite Workspace DockOnTop (0 or 1 for true or false) dwrite appname NXCMYKAdjust YES dwrite Preferences 24HourClock yes 4.29 What is the @LongLink message from gnutar all about? @LongLink gnutar Because gnutar tries to be somewhat compatible to the old tar format, it can't store pathnames longer than 100 chars. In order to store files with longer names, it generates a special file entry containing just the longer filename. These are the long links you see. Nothing to worry about. 4.30 What stands the file .place3_0.wmd for? .place3_0.wmd The Workspace uses it to record the window attributes (sort order, view type, icon positions and so on) Switching the 'UNIX Expert' flag in UNIX Preferences panel off hides all files which start by '.'. 4.31 How to create transparent icons with IconBuilder IconBuilder icon, transparent If you are repainting an icon on the filesystem e.g. .dir.tiff make a copy and remove it first. Then reload the directory (the default icon gets shown). This is needed because the system caches icons. Now here comes how to create transparent backgrounds using IconBuilder: * Select Format->Document Layout (or New document layout) * 'Has alpha' must be checkedus * Open the color inspector * UNcheck 'paint in overlay mode' * Choose any color (I took white) * Set Opacity to 0 * Use Paintbucket to fill the whole icon * Now set Opacity back to 100 * Draw the icon What 'Paint in overlay mode… does, is that when checked, it will use both the alpha (opacity) of the existing pixel and the alpha selected in the color inspector and combine both into a new color. When unchecked the existing pixel will just be replaced with one using color and alpha as selected in the inspector. 4.32 How to access the MAC format of a mixed DOS/MAC CD-ROM Mac DOS CD-ROM Some CD-ROMs are using multiple fileformats to adress more people. This is done by putting two filesystems on the disk. With NEXTSTEP you are able to acess both. But what to do if the Workspace only shows you the DOS side of a disk, while the Mac side is often more convenient (due to e.g. long filenames). The solution is to change the priority the system is searching for a usable filesystem. You need to rearange the filesystems in /usr/filesystems to fit your needs. Here is how: * ls -lR /usr/filesystems shows the actual searching queue. * mv /usr/filesystems /tmp/filesystems to backup things * mkdir /usr/filesystems recreate the directory. * cp -p -r /tmp/filesystems/xx /usr/filesystems copy the filesystems in order of searching back to the default location. * chmod 4755 /usr/filesystems/xx.fs/xx.util reset SUID mode * reset the links in /usr/filesystems/DOS.fs/. 4.33 Is there a PPP for NEXTSTEP PPP There is a commercial PPP and a public domain PPP implementation. For the public domain PPP there is an additional FAQ available at: http://www.thoughtport.com:8080/PPP/ The public domain PPP is based on the PPP-2.2 distribution. This distribution offers several enhancements over ppp-2.1.2. Especially noteworty is that it implements BSD packet compression. Using packet compression can lead to higher throughput than you get using compressing modems. The port works on Motorola, Intel (both Mux and NeXT supplied serial drivers), and HP systems running OS 3.2 and 3.3. It also works in conjunction with Black and White's NXFAX software. You may also want to join the mailing list for PPP. This will keep you informed of new releases and will provide an arena for discussing problems with the NeXT specific PPP port. To add yourself to the list (or for any other administrative requests), send an email message to: listproc@listproc.thoughtport.com requesting you be placed on the list. Make sure to include your proper return email address. To send mail to all the participants on the list, address your messages to: nextppp@listproc.thoughtport.com 4.34 NIS and OpenStep NIX lookupd There's a new lookupd in OpenStep for Mach 4.0, which works a bit differently than the old lookupd. The new lookupd has a number of "agents" that do lookups from various information systems (NetInfo, DNS, NIS, the Flat Files, and the internal cache). You can specify which information sources should be consulted, and in what order. You can also specify which information sources should be consulted for different categories. There is documentation for all this in the file /NextLibrary/Documentation/NextAdmin/ReleaseNotes/lookupd.rtf. One change in NIS lookups is that a "+" in the /etc/passwd file does not trigger a NIS lookup. If you want user lookups to consult both /etc/passwd and the NIS passwd maps, you need to tell lookupd to use both Flat File and NIS agents. For example, if you configure all this in your root domain, you could set user lookups to use Cache+NetInfo+Flat Files+NIS like this: niutil -create / /locations/lookupd niutil -create / /locations/lookupd/users niutil -createprop / /locations/lookupd/users LookupOrder \ CacheAgent NIAgent FFAgent NISAgent 4.35 System overloaded due to swapping Swapping CPU overload load Several people discovered the problem, that their system get's unusable due to swapping. This is extremely bad, because if this swapping occurs, you can't even break the CPU load causing process, because you can't even open a terminal window. There exists a programmed solution to this problem. Here it is! I should warn you that this will just kill the app --- it will not give you a chance to save files, nor will it bring up a nice panel asking if you really meant to do that. There is no warranty for anything by using this code. To use it, simple hold down alternate and right click on any window owned by the application or its icon on the dock. This will not kill some apps like Terminal because they run as root. In order to install it, you will have to edit /usr/lib/NextStep/windowpackage.ps. Make sure that you make a backup of this file before editing it! It is owned by root, so not just anyone can do this. To apply the patch, search for a line stating: rmdownEvProc (the procedure for processing right mouse button down events), and replace it with the code named examples/windowpackage.patch in the FAQ archive. For NS3.3 this code is located at line 1319. Disclaimer: you should not attempt this if you do not know what you are doing. You may be unable to log in (you will have to boot single user to restore the windowpackage.ps) if you mess it up. You can kill apps that you did not mean to kill. I cannot be responsible for what happens! Thanks to David Koski dkoski@cs.wisc.edu for supplying this code. 4.36 Swapfile issues swapfile swap, speed swap, size 1. use 'mkfile' to generate the lowat file size of you swapfile. This decreases the number of inodes used and keeps the permanent lowat size defragmented. 2. on fast machines, compress the swapfile (only possible on the primary file), on slow machines, disable compressing. 3. place the swapfile on the fastest hard disk drive you have. Use 'man swaptab' to learn more about configuring swap files. 4. to learn more about the never shrinking swapfile question, read the NeXTanswers about it. http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/ 5. if your swaptab ignores some options: be aware that options must not contain spaces! 4.37 Garbage collection and Objective-C garbage collection memory allocation Note that Boehm's conservative garbage collector from ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/gc/ works great with Objective-C, so you can use GC also with the other compilers. That GC could be enhanced a little by taking advantage of the Objective-C runtime type information; the hooks are there for it. 4.38 Setting up an anonymous FTP server ftp server Many people suggested just to read the online manual to ftpd. Probably a good idea. Anyway I included a not tested script in the FAQ distribution package which might be convinient for most people. 5 BLACK (NEXT) HARDWARE 5.1 What disk drives will work with the NeXT? disk drives There are some situations in which there are problems. Here is a short list which might help you in your disk drive quest: * These drives don't work with NeXT hardware: FUJITSU 2684SAU, SEAGATE ST51080N, IBM IB06H8891 * The SCSI driver for NeXT hardware only accepts asynchronous data transfer. Although every new SCSI-2 drive should support this mode, this isn't true for certain drives. Also sometimes there is a hardware switch (a little jumper on the drive) which switches between synchronous and asynchronous mode. You definitly can only use asynchronous disks! * There are also problems with sync negotiation on NeXT hardware. In general there should be another jumper to toggle this are you might change this with an SCSI utility. There are also problems with the tagged command queuing option. Anyway all these problem can be solved. Often these problems arise with IBM drives. We recommand to look in the technical documentation of the drive, which is available only from IBM's WWW site directly. Most SCSI disk drives will work without modifying /etc/disktab. There are problems with the installation of boot blocks and badly formed fstab generated by BuildDisk of NEXTSTEP 2.0. A disk connected to the NeXT will need to have a NeXT specific label written to it before it can be properly recognized by the system. If you get an error message "Invalid Label..." this indicates that the drive was successfully seen by the NeXT machine but it does not have the proper label, to install a label use the /usr/etc/disk program on the raw disk device that the system assigned to the device and use the label command to write the label onto the disk. [how the NeXT assigns disk devices is explained in the N&SA manual] NEXTSTEP releases 2.0 and up provide a low level disk formatter, sdform, which does not offer much flexibility, but gets the job done. Most drives are already formatted at the factory. You might look for the utility sdformat on the FTP sites as well, which overcomes some problems of sdform supplied by NeXT. 5.2 Will a 68030 NeXT Computer run NEXTSTEP 3.3? NS3.3 and 68030 Yes, but note that NeXTstep 3.3 is be optimized for the 68040 CPUs. NeXTstep 1.0 and 2.x were optimized for the 68030 CPU, 68882 FPU machines. 5.3 Does a FUJITSU MO (256 MB) works with NeXT original Hardware? FUJITSU MO Yes, they do 5.4 Can I run my SCSI-2 disks in synchronous mode? SCSI-2, synchronous synchronous mode Quick answer is: No. The reason is that the NeXT does not support synchronous transfers from the SCSI bus. It does support SCSI-2 disks running in asynchronous mode, which all SCSI-2 disks must do. 5.5 How do I configure my HP 660 to boot properly? HP 660, boot boot, HP 660 It has been reported that HP drives fail to autoboot on power on or while other devices are on the scsi bus. The problem seems to be with drives configured to spin-up automatically on power on do not get recognized at boot time. To remedy this problem reliably with HP 660Mb (HP97548) and 1Gbyte (HP 97549) drives remove the auto spinup jumper on the back of the drive. Looking at the disk from the back with the power connector on the lower left, it is the sixth jumper. The official fix was an EPROM change to the HP drive from HP. The HP drives took too long to wait up, so the system wasn't happy with the other drives coming ready first especially when the HP was suppose to be the boot device. (The EPROM is no longer available from NeXT). 5.6 What is the procedure for installing a Fujitsu M2263SA/SB SCSI Disk as the NeXT Boot Disk? Fujitsu M2263SA/SB See Izumi Ohzawa's note in /pub/next/docs/fujitsu.recipe available via anonymous ftp from sonata.cc.purdue.edu. 5.7 How to mount a corrupted OD that won't automount? OD, corrupt OD, mount If you can't automount an OD, and you can't fix it, you can still manually mount it. Log in as root. Type /usr/etc/mount /dev/od0a /FoO. It will ask you to insert the disk. Insert it. It is mounted. This method WILL mount a corrupted OD so you can read its contents. Since it is corrupted, it is not recommended to write to it. You should copy the important files to something else, then reformat it. 5.8 What non-NeXT CD Players that work with a NeXT? CD-ROM, NeXT A USENET survey summary: Apple CD-150 PLI 1035N for NeXT SUN CD-ROM drive (Sony CDU-8012, Rev. 3.1a) NEC 73M and 74 (transfer rates > of 300 KB/sec.) NEC 84 S NEC 4xi NEC 6x speed Apple CD-SC (Sony 541-22 mechanism) Apple CD-300 Apple CD-300+ Chinon CDS-431 (with new drivers) Eclipse CD-ROM from Microtech Toshiba 3201 Toshiba 3301 Toshiba 3401 Toshiba 3501 Toshiba TXM3301E1 Toshiba XM-2200A external Toshiba XM3601 Plextor Quadspeed Plextor PX-63CS (6xspeed) DENON DRD-253 external (data only, no music) HP's LaserROM drive (Toshiba XM-3301TA drive in HP's box) Texel 3024 (required a firmware upgrade to version was 1.11) As with all SCSI devices, they just work. Some drives only get problems with their audio support with CD-Player (due to not standardized SCSI audio commands, but this isn't a NeXT specific problem!) In contrary the question should be: are there SCSI CD-ROMs which don't work together with NEXTSTEP? 5.9 What are some other sources of toner cartridges and trays for the NeXT laser printer? toner, NeXT printer The toner cartridge is a standard EP-S cartridge, the same that fits the HP LaserJet III and some other printers. Any HP LaserJet II or III will fit. HPLJ4mSI cartridges do NOT fit. Any HP LJII or LJIII paper tray will fit. IIISI and 4 trays will not. Confused? Read again :-) 5.10 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with a NeXT? printers, on NeXT If you plan to connect an HP LaserJet (II, IIP, III, etc.) you need to make a special cable in order for the NeXT 040 and HP to get the hardware handshaking correct. This is true for whatever version of the OS you are running. NeXT 68040 to HP LaserJet III Cable (not a Null-modem cable): Mini-Din HP DB-25 1 (DTR) nc 2 (DCD) 4 (RTS) 3 (TXD) 3 (RXD) 4 (GND) 7 (GND) 5 (RXD) 2 (TXD) 6 (RTS) 5 (CTS) 7 (RTXC) nc 8 (CTS) 20 (DTR) You may want to use hardware flow control for reliability (ie /dev/ttyfa). If you have problems with other printers, check the cable pinouts in the printer's manual against the one recommended in the zs man-page! Refer to Chapter 13 in Network and System Administration. 5.11 What can I do to prevent my NeXT printer from running all the time? printer, turning off The NeXT 400dpi printer powers up every time you boot up when the print daemon is started (/usr/lib/NextPrinter/npd in /etc/rc). Apart from not running the daemon at boot time (commenting it out and having to run it by hand later), you can add the following lines to /etc/rc.local: if [ -f /usr/etc/nppower ]; then sleep 3 /usr/etc/nppower off (echo 'powering off NeXTprinter') >/dev/console fi Once you queue a print job the printer daemon will automatically power up the NeXT printer for you. The printer daemon will not automatically power off the machine after a print job, you will need to turn off the printer by typing /usr/etc/nppower off. 5.12 What type of microphones will work with the NeXT? microphone, NeXT Some NeXT owners use the RadioShack (Realistic) Tie Clip Microphone ($19.95) cat 33-1052. NeXT Computer, Inc. uses the "Sony Electret Condenser Microphone ECM-K7" in-house (available for $60). Some use Sony Tie-Clip microphone, #ECM-144, which costs around $40. Others have successfully used a WalMart brand microphone (available for $6). 5.13 How do I connect a modem to the NeXT? modem, on NeXT Previously, we suggested that people use Mac modem cables; however, it has come to our attention that there is no one standard Mac modem cable. Since correct modem operation on a NeXT depends upon a correctly wired modem cable, buying a Mac cable is not a good idea. Some Mac cables do not allow dial-in and no Mac cable allows the use of hardware flow control. For these reasons, we are recommending that only cables that meet NeXT specifications be used. [however, if you have a Mac modem cable lying around and don't care about dial-in or hardware flow control, then by all means....] These cables are available commercially from any store, how still sells NeXT stuff, and from Computer Cables and Devices, or can be custom built. Note that no off- the-shelf Mac cable will allow hardware flow control. It is however possible to make a such a cable from an Imagewriter II cable by replacing one of the mini-8 ends with a DB-25 connector. Hardware flow control is absolutely essential for all serial port connections with speeds of 9600 bps and above. Make certain that you cable supports it, your modem is configured to use it and you are using the hardware flowcontrol devices /dev/cuf[ab], /dev/ttydf[ab] and /dev/ttyf[ab], respectively. Most people use tip or kermit to control the modem. SLIP and/or UUCP may also be used (but are more complicated to set up and require the remote machine to also have SLIP and/or UUCP (respectively)). A version of the DOS-program pcomm can be found on ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de The 2.0 Network and System Administration Manual, which is available in hard-copy (shipped with each machine) contains an extensive description of how to use modems with the NeXT machine. Additionally NeXT in their TechSupportNotes series called SerialPortDoc.wn and UUCP for 1.0/1.0a systems . This document is available from most FTP sites that carry NextAnswers. Also, try to obtain the about.modem.Z file by Mark Adler in the pub/next/lore directory on sonata.cc.purdue.edu 5.14 Are there any alternative sources for the SCSI-II to SCSI-I cable required to attach external SCSI devices to the 040 NeXTs? SCSI cable to NeXT Yes. This cable is the same as the one used by Sun SparcStations and DecStation 5000's (but not DecStation 3100's which use 68-pin micro rather than the 50pin micro connector used on NeXT 040, Suns and DecStation 5000). The implication that a Sun SparcStation cable can be used with NeXT peripherals is generally false. NeXT themselves, and DEC, and nearly everyone else who makes SCSI peripherals, puts Telco-50 (centronics) connectors on their devices. Sun in their infinite wisdom uses DD50 which are quite different. Telco-50 is an approved connector type in the SCSI spec. Probably the original point was that the 50-pin microSCSI on the NeXT and Sun and some DecStations was different from the 68-pin microSCSI on the DecStation 5000. But this does not address the other end of the cable. 5.15 What fax modems will work with the NeXT? fax modem, on NeXT Most available modems of today, don't work for with the general fax driver available with NEXTSTEP. In this case you need to perchuse a commercial solution: 'NXFax'. There are demos available. The following information is pretty much old, and might probably be obsolete now: The following fax modems are currently available for the NeXT Computer: Manufacturer, Model Supplier, Type DoveFax for NeXT, Dove Computer, Class 1 HSD FaxMaster, HSD Microcomputer, Class 2* mix fax, i·link GmbH, Class 2** SupraFAXModem V.32bis, Supra Corp., Class 2 (requires DFax driver or NXFax driver) ZyXEL U-1496E/E+/S/S+, ZyXEL USA, Class 2 (requires NXFax driver) Telebit T3000 with fax option Telebit WorldBlazer with fax option (requires NXFax driver) Neuron 1414/1414+ with ZyXEL ROM upgrade (requires NXFax driver) (Neuron 1414 and Neuron 1414+ modems are relabelled ZyXEL modems. Contact ZyXEL USA for ROM upgrades. Neuron modems with 512K ROMs should upgrade their ROMs and ROM sockets to 1 Mb ROMs. People with 1Mb ROMs should just order the new ROMs.) (*) Note that the Class 2 is not yet approved; it is still out for ballot, after having failed in an October 1990 round. The Abaton InterFax 24/96 NX driver supports Class 2 as it was in that draft; there are expected to be very few changes prior to approval. (**) Note that mix fax works with both the October 1990 and October 1991 draft versions of Class 2, especially with the NeXT supplied Class 2 modem driver. Upgrading to an approved version of Class 2 would be a matter of just a software update (holds true for any forthcoming (class 3?) standard, for that matter). In order to use a fax modem with the NeXT Computer, a NeXT compatible fax driver must be available to operate the modem. Modem control procedures may be proprietary or conform to one of the following EIA/TIA standards: Class 1: CCITT T.30 session management and CCITT T.4 image data handling are controlled by the driver. Class 2*: CCITT T.30 session management and image data transport are handled by the modem. CCITT T.4 image data preparation and interpretation are controlled by the driver. Release 2.0 of the NeXT system software includes a Class 2 modem driver which will work with any fax modem which meets the EIA/TIA Asynchronous Facsimile Control standard. Other fax modems must supply a NeXT compatible driver. Note that there's a small bug in 2.0 (fixed in 2.1): a symbolic link is missing for the file Class2_Fax_Modem_Driver in /usr/lib/NextPrinter. The simple fix: create the link; it should reference Interfax_Fax_Modem_Driver, also in the /usr/lib/NextPrinter directory. An alternative workaround for Class 2, especially useful for novices: just use InterFax as the modem type in PrintManager, rather than Class 2*. After installing a fax modem using PrintManager one must repeat setting things in the Fax Options panel in order for them to be stored correctly. In particular, these include the Rings to Answer and Number of Times to Retry. This affects all fax modems being installed. If one uses illegal characters in the Modems Number field in the Fax Options when configuring an InterFax modem then the modem will not answer the phone. Legal characters are digits, spaces, and plus signs. This does not affect the Dove modem. Modems from the german vendor Dr. Neuhaus also work with the internal Fax-Driver. But only the FURY-series does. 5.16 How may I attach more than two serial ports to the NeXT? serial port, >2 on NeXT TTYDSP From Yrrid converts the DSP port into an additional serial port. Yrrid Incorporated 507 Monroe St. Chapel Hill, NC 27516 Voice: 919-968-7858 Fax: 919-968-7856 E-mail: yrrid@world.std.com Unitnet has a device, the SLAT, that will connect to the scsi bus. Uninet Peripherals, Inc. Voice: 714-263-4222 Fax: 714-263-4299 Central Data Corporation made the scsiTerminal Server family of products. However they stopped supporting NeXT hardwer. We are told that Central Data may consider the solling or giving of the driver source to an interested party. Phone: 217/359-8010 Toll-free: 800/482-0315 FAX: 217-359-6904 Email: info@cd.com support@cd.com sales@cd.com Also, one can use an IP terminal server. In a non-Internet environment, inexpensive terminal servers, which don't control access to the network securely, can be used. If your network is an Internet subnet, you must use a terminal server that controls either: (1) who can log into the terminal server, or (2) which machines the terminal server will access. These tend to be more expensive (around $250/port, but in 8-port increments), but it may be quite economical means of sharing ports among many NeXTs (or other computers) on the network. Particularly if one has a NeXT network, an Ethernet terminal server may be the way to go. One that supports Linemode Telnet (such as the Xylogics Annex III) will offer the best performance. 5.17 What is the best and/or cheapest way to connect a NeXT to a thick Ethernet? Ethernet, thick There are many possible solutions. For example, here are three: * The University of Waterloo (Audio Research Group) uses an old door-stop PC XT clone with two Western Digital cards (WD8003E Ethercard Plus, $250 CDN each; you should be able to get them for under $200 (US$)) running Vance Morrison's PCRoute (available from accuvax.nwu.edu). You will also need a thickwire transceiver and a drop cable (about $300). In addition, you will need Internet addresses for the NeXT and both PC Ethernet cards (and a subnet address). The documentation for PCRoute contains quite a bit of information on the performance of this setup. This solution requires two subnets. There is another program called PCbridge that allows the machines on the thin and thick wires to be part of the same subnet. This product also does packet filtering, so that packets destined to machines on the same side of the net do not cross over. * Cabletron sells a MR-2000C Singleport Repeater for $695 that does exactly what you need minus drop cable and transceiver. Their number is (408) 441-9900. * The march 1992 INMAC networking and connectivity products catalog lists thicknet to thinnet converters. Product number Z903071 price $445. Claims full ieee 802.3 compatibility and diagnostic LED's. * NuData (908)-842-5757 (USA) sells AUI10 base-T boxes for about $149. 5.18 How can I connect my NeXT to the telephone line and use it like an answering Machine? answering machine A company that is selling both hardware and software to allow you to do this: SES Computing 13206 Jenner Lane Austin, Texas 78729 Voice: (512) 219-9468 (Demo system number) i.link, a european company, has a combined data/fax modem and telephone answering machine. It uses the DSP port and is implemented mainly in software on the DSP with a little bit of hardware to interface to the phone line. i.link GmbH Nollendorfstrasse 11-12 D-1000 Berlin 30 Germany Tel: +49 30 216 20 48 Fax: +49 30 215 82 74 E-mail: info@ilink.de 5.19 What color monitors can I use with the Color NeXT machines? monitor, color The important specs for the color monitor are: Horz Scan Rate: 61 KHz Vertical Scan Rate: 68 Hz Resolution: 1280x1024 (NeXT uses 1120x832) NON-INTERLACED Displays may require alignment to adjust for the scan rate of NeXT machines. The Nanao T560i 17" color display has been used with NeXTstation Color machines, and seems to work well. Some larger NEC displays have also worked. 5.20 Where can I get 13W3 to BNC adapters to connect third party color monitors? 13W3 to BNC BNC to 13W3 You can get them from:NeXT/Bell Atlantic: part number S4025. NuData in New Jersey carries 13W3 female to 4 BNC male connectors. The price is about $100. NuData Voice: 908-842-5757 DISCLAIMER: I take no responsibility for the following. If you can source the bits yourself here's how it's built. 1 female 13W3 connector 3 Male BNC connectors 3 mini coax ie. the pins to the coaxial are male and the regular pins are female. Looks like this. . o o o o o . . 13W3 FEMALE A1 o o o o o A2 A3 | | | | | | | | | Red Green Blue 3 BNC's That's the coax part. The outer shielding of the coax's are grounded on both pin 10 and the case. 5.21 How may I attach Centronics or 16 bit wide parallel ports to the NeXT? centronics, NeXT parallel port, NeXT Uninet has devices, the SLAT-2 and the SLAT-DRV11, that will connect to the scsi bus. Uninet Peripherals, Inc. Voice: 714-263-4222 Fax: 714-263-4299 zardoz!sales@ics.uci.edu or uunet!ucivax!zardoz!sales 5.22 Why does an unused serial port consume cpu? serial port, cpu power usage Perhaps you've got a (probably fairly long) unshielded serial cable attached to it, with either nothing at the other end or a powered-off device at the other end. EE's call this an antenna. It's probably picking up most of the radio stations in your area, which the serial chip is interpreting as a continuous stream of garbage bytes, which it feeds to getty, which tries to interpret them as login attempts. How do you avoid this problem? * leave the device at the other end switched on (even when it's not transmitting, it will assert a voltage that overrides the noise) * unplug the cable from the next when you're not using it * use 'kill -STOP' & 'kill -CONT' to stop and resume the getty process as needed * buy an adequately shielded serial cable 5.23 How to adjust MegaPixel Display brightness and focus? brightness, MegaPixel focus, MegaPixel Adjust it using the following information. From: Charles William Swiger I have adjusted several monitors with no problems, but make sure you know what you are doing before opening anything. I expressly disclaim responsibility for any ill results that may occur. In order to adjust NeXT's MegaPixel display (called 'the monitor' hereafter), you'll need (a) the NeXTtool (or a 3mm Allen wrench), (b) a plastic adjustment tool (preferred) or a thin bladed screwdriver, and possibly (c) a Phillips-head screwdriver. (NB: A similar procedure will work for color monitors, but you should either know what you're doing or you'll probably be better off letting a pro deal with it.) Turn off the computer. Disconnect all cables to the monitor. Look at the back of the monitor. There will be 4 screws there; use the NeXTtool (or Allen wrench) to remove them. Remove the plastic back of the monitor and put it out of your way. Reconnect the cables and turn the computer back on. As the machine powers up, examine the back of the monitor. You'll see a metallic box (usually silver, though some are black) surrounding the monitor's vitals. This protects you against the dangerous voltages inside, and also insulates the monitor from electromagnetic noise. On the back of this box are several holes for performing adjustments. There are two focus controls (labeled 'focus' and 'dynamic focus'), a brightness control (labeled 'brightness' or possibly 'black level') and several others that adjust various things like screen size and position. Depending on the exact placement of the controls on the circuit board of your specific monitor, some of these controls may be difficult (or impossible) to adjust from the back. If this is the case, I will describe what's necessary below. Otherwise, adjust the appropriate controls using either an adjustment tool or a screwdriver. Be warned that a screwdriver probably will cause some interesting video effects when it enters the case. Ignore this the best you can, or find a plastic adjustment tool, which is what you *really* should be using anyway. Using a flashlight will help you see into the hole so that you can align the business end of the tool correctly. Focus and position controls are fairly obvious. Adjust them slowly until you're happy with the results. Don't muck with anything you don't need to; the factory settings are usually pretty decent. To correctly adjust the brightness, follow this procedure: Turn the brightness of the monitor all the way down using the keyboard. Adjust the brightness control on the back of the monitor until a barely noticeable picture forms. Then turn the brightness down a little so this picture disappears completely. Check that you can get adequate brightness by using the keyboard to brighten the screen. If the display isn't bright enough, adjust the brightness control on the rear of the monitor high enough so that the monitor display is adequate. Note that you won't be able to dim the screen completely from the keyboard...sorry. Once you're finished, shut down the computer, take off the cables, reattach the back of the monitor, and reconnect the cables. You're done. If the control you need to adjust proves to be difficult, you may need to enter the metal case. This happened on one monitor's focus control and another's brightness. WARNING: THE VOLTAGES INSIDE THE MONITOR'S CASE ARE VERY DANGEROUS, EVEN WHEN THE MONITOR IS OFF. BE VERY CAREFUL, OR YOU CAN SERIOUSLY INJURE OR EVEN KILL YOURSELF. DO NOT PERFORM THE NEXT INSTRUCTIONS UNLESS YOU ARE CONFIDENT THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. You'll have to power off the computer again, and disconnect the cables. Looking at the monitor from the back, notice a section of metallic shielding on the right side of the metal box that extends to the picture tube. This is where the flyback transformer is connected. It shields a wire that is charged to about 25,000 V. WARNING: DO NOT TOUCH THIS WIRE, IT CAN SHOCK YOU THROUGH ITS INSULATION. Being very careful of this, remove the metal case by unscrewing the Philip's head screws that hold the case on. Don't touch the screws that hold the picture tube into the front of the monitor's case. Once you've gotten the metal box off, reconnect the cables. Figure out what control you're going to adjust, and make sure that you can do so without touching anything else inside. Again, *watch out* for the wire that connects to the picture tube on the right side. Power up the computer. I recommend that you use only one hand to make the adjustment, and that your other hand be placed in your pocket (or similar equivalent, if you're wearing clothes lacking pockets). This precaution reduces the chances that you'll make a short circuit between one hand, your heart, and the other hand --- a good idea. Perform the necessary adjustment(s), being very careful not to touch anything inside. Then shut down and reassemble the monitor, following the directions given above. Hopefully, these instructions will prove useful. Once again, please be very careful...I don't want your death and/or injury on my conscience (or a lawsuit, for that matter, either :-) 5.24 I want to emulate a macintosh, how? MacIntosh, emulation emulation, MacIntosh There is a nice way to run macintosh-software on your original black hardware. It works fine with dual-headed cubes and is optimized for the Apple OS - Version 7.5. To get further information about daydream, please contact: QUIX Computerware AG 011-41-41-440-88-28 9 hour differential Luzernerstr.10 6030 Ebikon Switzerland Next software - 011-41-41-34-86-80 quix@applelink.apple.com There is another solution, completely in software: 'Executor' from Ardi does the job, too. (http://www.ardi.com/ 5.25 My NeXT laser printer fails to fully eject the sheet - how to fix? printer, eject, NeXT laser NeXT laser, eject paper Fix it as follows. If you continually get messages like, "sorry, the printer is jammed" and you have to pull each page out the last inch, you probably need to replace the 14 tooth gear in the output stage(fuse ass'y). You can see this gear before you disassemble the printer, so that is a good first step. Then read these instructions all the way through and see if you want to attempt it. Next recommends replacing the entire fuse ass'y ( big bucks) if the gear is damaged, but Chenesko, Inc., of Ronkonkoma, NY sells the gears for $2.31. The part number is RS1-0132. They recommended I also replace the 20 tooth gear, number RS1-0116, but I don't know if it is really necessary. Their phone number is 800-221-3516. PartsNow is also selling laserprint replacement parts. Their part number for the a replacement roller part is RA1-84489-000 000. You might contact them for further details. To examine your gear, open the rear (delivery ) door and undo the screw attaching the strap that keeps the door from opening down all the way. The gear is on the side nearest the power input to the printer. There are two gears on the part of the delivery ass'y that swings down. The suspect gear engages the top one, but is mounted on the fixed portion of the fuse. Ours had several teeth missing and/or damaged. To get the gear off you have to remove the fuse ass'y. To remove the fuse you must open the printer lid fully, so it is straight up. To open the lid fully you must remove the case. To remove the case you must remove the plastic cover on the lid. Are you getting the idea now? This will be a lot of fun, and take most of the afternoon. I hope you have a spacious, well-lit area, because there are a lot of screws, and a lot of them are painted black, so they are hard to see when you drop them, unless you drop them inside of the printer, where you might NEVER see them again. Fortunately, as with all computer equipment, they seem to put lots of extras in, so just make sure there aren't any where they might do damage, like short out the mega KILOVOLT corona power supply, or grind into the REGISTRATION rollers. You do want your printouts to be straight, don't you? So, if you're ready, here we go. * PREPARATION Most mere mortals will want to power down everything and disconnect the cables, etc. Remove the cartridge and paper trays, etc. * REMOVE THE LID COVER open the lid and remove 3 screws. They DO NOT have any red paint on them. * REMOVE THE BACK DOOR there is one screw that holds the strap. When you can swing it clear down, you can squeeze the hinges together and remove the door. * REMOVE THE CASE There are maybe seven screws that hold the case on. Four are right on top. Two are just inside the rear door area. Two are down inside where you store that green cleaning tool. 4 + 2 + 2 = 7, right? Say, who was the last guy that worked on this printer anyway? The case has to be convinced that you really need to remove it, even when it is loose and all the screws are out. * REMOVE THE FUSE ASS'Y You will need a PHILLIPS screwdriver for this, as with the previous steps. But you will need a LONG one this time. Three of the screws are pretty easy to find. Just study the lower part of the fuse, as it is screwed onto the bottom case. Two of the screws are inside. One is under the lid next to the gears, the other near the green cleaning tool. On the outside, in back, there is one on each side. One is under the white wires that connect the fuse to the 10 AMP circuit breaker, which is pretty near that gear, and close to the power input. Unplug that cable. Then remove the small black crew that holds the black plastic gear cover so you will have better access to the last screw. Then you will have to wrestle the fuse out the back of the printer. Be careful with it. * DISASSEMBLE THE FUSE There are several screws and a spring. It's not too hard to take apart. You can see the gear, so you just have to take off the covers on that end of the ass'y to get to it. I should caution you that I had trouble putting them back on, because they have funny shapes and don't make a lot of sense. Plus I was tired, so I went home, ate dinner, played with the dog, went to bed, got up and ate breakfast before I put it back together. You might want to label some parts, make some drawings, etc. to reassure yourself that you can put the parts back just like they were. * REMOVE THE GEAR You can remove the gear pretty easily with a small screwdriver by unspringing the "E"-ring that holds it on the shaft. Try not to bend the e-ring. * PUT EVERYTHING BACK TOGETHER Sorry, I can't help you with this part (HA HA!) I told you you should read the instructions first. Maybe you should buy a new printer, or try to attach some third party printer via the serial port! Well, if you got this far I hope you dropped little crumbs of bread so you can find your way back. I try to save all the little screws by putting them back in the holes they came from, or putting them in some small container. You might clean some of the gears or the paper path while you have it open. You can also install a new OZONE filter. Remember OZONE is hazardous to your health, so you don't want to inhale it. DISCLAIMER: BE CAREFUL IF YOU TRY THIS PROCEDURE. THERE ARE DANGEROUS VOLTAGES PRESENT, AND EVEN IF YOU ARE TOO CHICKEN TO WORK ON IT POWERED UP, YOU COULD CUT YOURSELF, OR DROP THE WHOLE THING ON YOUR FOOT, THUS VOIDING THE WARRANTY. ALSO, THE PRINTER WONÂT WORK WITHOUT THE COVERS, BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO SECRET SWITCHES THAT INFORM THE NEXT CPU THAT SOMEONE "IS FOOLING AROUND WITH THE PRINTER AGAIN." Yet another update to reflect that Jacob Gore received gears for an Apple Laserwriter from Chenesko, which are similar enough to work, but with some modification.Also, if the original gear is in fair condition, it can be reversed on the shaft until a replacement is ordered. 5.26 What are the NeXT mouse connections? mouse, connector Read the following instruction. Thanks to Alvin Austin (austin@cs.USask.Ca) I have the information I need on the NeXT mouse connections. Pin Function 1 +5v 2 X Encoder Phase A 3 X Encoder Phase B 4 Y Encoder Phase A 5 Y Encoder Phase B 6 Right Button 7 Left Button 8 Ground 5.27 What type of memory may be installed in a NeXT? References: NeXTanswers' hardware.620, 92_spring_bulletin "Announcing NeXTstation Turbo and NeXTcube Turbo" NeXT Computer (68030-25MHz/68040-25MHz), NeXTcube (68040-25MHz): Number SIMM slots: 16 SIMM group size: 4 SIMM type: 30-pin low profile> SIMM access rating: 100 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4 MB (1x8/1x9, 4x8/4x9) Maximum RAM: 64 MB The low-profile vertically mounted 4 MB SIMMs are easier to install in the NeXTcube than the horizontally mounted 4 MB SIMMs because of the small height clearance above the SIMM slots. It is possible to install the horizontally mounted 4 MB SIMMs, but you will be required to slide the CPU board and the center tower in simultaneously. Parity (9-bit) SIMMs can be used in both 68030 and 68040 NeXT machines, but should not be mixed with non-parity SIMMs. Only 68040 boards with ROM levels of 2.2 (v63) and higher can use the parity memory to detect parity errors. It is OK to mix parity and non-parity memory, but the system will not boot unattended. Cubes with early boot ROMs will not work with 4 Mb parity ram, unless at least 3 banks are used. The system gives an exception error on power up. The fix is to get a new boot rom from Next. You can pay $30, or you may be able to squawk and get one for free. I have found Next to be pretty responsive, once I find the right person. The correct version is v66 which was the last or final rev for this series of 040 boards. This version also fixed the problem in the second paragraph. NeXTdimension boards (i860): Number SIMM slots: 8 SIMM group size: 4 SIMM type: 72-pin SIMM access rating: 80 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4, 8 MB (256Kx32, 1Mx32, 2Mx32) Maximum RAM: 64 MB (32 MB official NeXT) NeXT didn't officially bless the use of 8 MB SIMMs, but they seem to fit and work. NeXTstations (68040-25MHz) serial numbers below ABB 002 6300: Number SIMM slots: 8 SIMM group size: 4 SIMM type: 30-pin SIMM access rating: 100 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4 MB (1x8/1x9, 4x8/4x9) Maximum RAM: 32 MB Faster SIMMS (70/80 ns) don't make the memory system work any faster than the 100 ns units. NeXTstation Color (68040-25MHz): Number SIMM slots: 8 SIMM group size: 2 SIMM type: 72-pin SIMM access rating: 80 ns5 SIMM capacity: 1, 4 MB (256Kx32/256Kx36, 1Mx32/1Mx36) Maximum RAM: 32 MB NeXTcube Turbo (68040-33MHz), NeXTstation Turbo (68040-33MHz), NeXTstation Color Turbo (68040-33MHz), NeXTstations (68040-25MHz) serial numbers above ABB 002 6300: Number SIMM slots: 4 SIMM group size: 2 SIMM type: 72-pin SIMM access rating: 70/100 ns SIMM capacity: 1, 4 ,8, 16, 32 MB (256Kx32/256Kx36, 1Mx32/1Mx36) Maximum RAM: 128 MB For maximum performance use 70 ns SIMMs: SIMMs rated at 80 or 100 ns will be detected upon powerup and the memory system clock slowed to 100 ns. Faster RAM than 70 ns won't give you a speed increase anymore. In fact it could slow things down again, because some hardware drives 60 ns RAM as 100 ns RAM. NeXT manufacturing introduced the new 25 MHz NeXTstation CPU board into production in late June '92. To verify which SIMM type your machine uses, check the system's memory configuration. You can do this by using the ROM monitor©s print memory configuration command m. Start with your machine powered down. Press the Power key to power on. As soon as the message ªTesting system...º disappears, press command-command-tilde ( on the numeric keyboard). Under these circumstances, this will access the ROM monitor. In the ROM monitor, type m and press return. Turbo-designed boardsÐincluding new 25 MHz NeXTstations and all Turbo systemsÐwill return messages reporting the memory configuration contained in four sockets (sockets 0 -3); old 25 MHz boards will return messages for more than four sockets (usually 8). You can tell a Turbo-designed board, and the accompanying 72 pin, 70 nanosecond SIMMs, by the fact it only reports information for only four sockets. The memory system has programmable memory timing such that the number of processor clocks needed to access a given amount of data can be tailored to the speed of the memory installed. 70 ns memory is just enough faster than 80 ns memory to allow the cpu to access the data with fewer clock cycles. This improves memory system performance. "70 ns" memory is faster than "80 ns" memory in many parameters other than just RAS access time. The faster CAS access time in particular allows the memory system to respond quicker to burst (16 bytes) bus transfers. 5.28 What is the NeXT SIMM tool? SIMM Tool The tool came with 68040 upgrade kits for NeXTcubes. It really makes removing SIMMs easy. It looks like a dental tool: about six inches long with a 1/2" long head offset at 90 degrees. To remove SIMMs, you slip the head into the hole on one side of the SIMM, rest the head on the SIMM socket next to the SIMM you are pulling, and pivot the tool back, using the simple fulcrum to gently pry the SIMM up about 1/8" from the socket on that side. Repeat on the other side, and the SIMM can be then removed by hand. 5.29 Where can I purchase a NeXT machine? Purchase, NeXT NeXT, purchase NeXT discontinued manufacturing hardware in Feb, 1993. Used systems are often advertised in comp.sys.next.marketplace. 5.30 Where to obtain hardware service? service, hardware hardware, service Hardware service can be obtained through the following firms: USA hardware service has been purchased by Bell Atlantic. They will be supporting the Authorized Service Centers and are selling extended warranty contracts. Decision One Voice: 800 499 6398, or 800 848 NeXT Fax: 510 732 3078 For Europe, please contact: SORBUS 40549 Duesseldorf Willstaetter Strasze 13 5.31 What types of NeXT machines were manufactured? NeXT, types of cube section There are two packages: a cube, and a station. * NeXTcube systems: + 68030-25 2-bit grayscale (NeXT Computer) + 68040-25 2-bit grayscale (NeXTcube) + 68040-33 2-bit grayscale (NeXTcube Turbo) + NeXTdimension board adds 32-bit color (i860) to any of above systems Cube systems can use any of the boards. With hacks, multiple independent CPU boards can run in one cube. NeXT Computer systems have room for 2 full-height 5.25" internal devices with a wide slot for an Optical Disk drive(s) in either position. NeXTcube systems also have room for 2 full-height 5.25" internal devices with a wide slot for an Optical Disk drive in the lower position, but have additional mounting holes for 1/2-height devices, and have a floppy slot at the top position. * NeXTstation systems: + 68040-25 2-bit grayscale (NeXTstation) + 68040-33 2-bit grayscale (NeXTstation Turbo) + 68040-25 16-bit color (NeXTstation Color) + 68040-33 16-bit color (NeXTstation Color Turbo) NeXTstation systems have room for two 1/2-height 3.5" devices, with a floppy slot at the side. 5.32 What can be done about older 030 NeXT cubes that have a fan that turns in the "wrong" direction? fan, running wrong The fan on older 030 NeXTs cubes sucks air out of the back of the cube which means that it draws unfiltered air in through the optical disk on the front of the cube. This causes optical disks to succumb to dust must sooner than cubes with the new-style fan which turns in the opposite direction. NeXT has apparently reversed their decision regarding fan reversal in the case of machines that have been upgraded to 040 processor boards. It is now considered okay to reverse the direction of fans in these machines. If you have many third-party cards installed in your cube or an older processor board, you may wish to consider not reversing fan direction (overheating could become a problem). In any case, do not reverse the fan's polarity, only reverse the fan assembly itself. Perhaps the best solution is obtain the cleaning kit and OD filter from NeXT. 5.33 Can I connect SONY MPX-111N to my 68030 NeXT Computer? SONY MPX-111N The SONY MPX-111N internal 2.88 MB floppy drive which was shipped with all the 68040 NeXT machines is not a SCSI device, therefore there is no way of connecting that particular drive internally on a 68030 system. 5.34 Why does the OD continually spin up and spin down? OD, spinning A big problem with the Canon optical drives is that air flows through the drive to cool it. Dust accumulates inside the drive causing it to fail with the continuous spin-up spin-down syndrome. NeXT as part of it's 040 upgrades provided a dust filter to prevent this. If your drive has this problem it usually can be fixed simply by cleaning out dust from the drive. NeXT sold a cleaning kit for both the drives and the optical disks. 5.35 How many colors can NeXT machines display? NeXT, colors The monochrome machines can display 4 gray levels. You can use color apps on a monochrome machine, they will converted into monochrome images and dithered accordingly. Color NeXTstations can combine 4 bits of red, green and blue primaries for a total of 4096 pure colors. The imaging functions dither the image to produce intermediate colors. NeXTdimension can combine 8 bits of red, green and blue for 16,777,216. There are not 16 million points on the display so all can not be displayed at once. Further display technology limits the usable color space. None of the NeXT products support color look up tables where the user can define their own color palette on a per window basis. This feature is useful for displaying images which have adaptive lookup tables, and display pure grayscale images on the color NeXTstation. On the NeXTdimension images can be converted to full 24 bit representation. 5.36 Why is my machine so slow when I run the monochrome and NeXTdimension displays? speed, display display, speed drops There is a bug with the window system in which if you select the monochrome display as your primary display the server will be much much slower. The solution for those wishing to use both displays is to select the color (NeXTdimension) display as the primary display. The most optimal configuration at present with the NeXTdimension is to run only the color display. 5.37 Where to obtain replacement mouse parts? mouse, parts From: jdavidso@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu For those who have need of a new button in their mouse, and don't want to pay for the whole mouse when it is only the button that has gone bad, we have recently discovered a satisfactory replacement for the Omron switch. It is in the Digikey catalog, # 931, Jan-Feb 1993, page 141, under Cherry switches D4, DG, and DH series. Digikey part # CH164-ND, Cherry part # DG1C-B1AA. We ordered one of these, and just received it today. Tried it out, and it seems to be working flawlessly so far. It is also possible to replace mouse buttons from a two button mouse with mouse buttons of the three button mice. 5.38 Where to obtain extra batteries? battery, purchase purchase, battery Battery part number: BR 2/3A 3V Lithium Battery (Panasonic) Source: Engineered Assemblies & Components Corporation 5204 Green's Dairy Road Raleigh, NC 27604 Phone: 919-790-9700 (ask for Debra) 5.39 How to convert a Turbo system to use ADB? ADB, turbo system If ADB equipment are used with older NeXT systems they won't work properly. Here are the ADB requirements: * A Turbo computer. * CPU eprom version 74. * New revision computer to soundbox/monitor cable. The part number is molded at both ends of the connector: Cable NEW OLD (Non ADB) NeXTcube 4534 150 NeXTstation 4535 1532 NeXTstation color 4536 2286 * New revision monitor which uses a vertical scan rate of 72hz instead of 68hz, except on NeXTdimension systems color monitor stays 68hz. Monitor NEW (72hz) OLD (68hz) 17" mono ACX (N4000b) AAA (N4000a \& N4000) 17" color ADF (N4006) ABG (N4001) 21" color ADB (N4005a) ABH (N4005) * ADB soundbox for color systems. S/N prefix ADD instead of ABN. 5.40 68030 board in the same NeXTcube as a 68040 board? DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURE IS NOT SUPPORTED BY NEXT, INC. AND WILL DEFINITELY VOID THE WARRANTY ON YOUR NEXT COMPUTER. FOLLOW IT AT YOUR OWN RISK. I DISCLAIM ALL RESPONSIBILITIES FOR DAMAGES CAUSED BY NEGLIGENCE IN FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURE. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THE PROCEDURE WILL WORK ON ALL VERSIONS(?) OF THE NEXT CUBE HARDWARE. ALL I KNOW IS THAT IT WORKED ON THE NEXT CUBE I WAS WORKING ON!!!! SO BEWARE. Here we go! I'll first provide a description of the hardware I was using and comment on what I accomplished and how I got the information on how to do it! The hardware included a NeXT cube with 660 MB drive, OD, etc., a 68040 upgrade board, and a 68030 motherboard. I successfully installed both the 68040 and 68030 boards on a SINGLE NeXT cube and linked them together through their ethernet ports. The 68040 was configured as a boot server and the 68030 was used as its client (booting off the network for lack of an additional hard drive). The procedure reconfigures slot #2 on the cube's back-plane as slot #0. This provides two slots configured as #0, required for booting the two motherboards. Once I determined what the slot pin-outs were (thanks to my good friend John Chmielewski), it was a matter of time before the two boards happily co-existed. The procedure: 1. First, follow the procedure on the NeXT User's Reference manual for removing the system board (Appendix C: Opening the Cube, page 291 of the 2.0 manual). 2. Using the NeXT supplied screwdriver, remove the two screws that attach the power-supply housing to the cube (the screws are located on the lower part of the housing) and gently pull the housing out. Set it aside in a safe place (away from kids and nosey friends!) 3. Remove the two plastic grooved plates (used to slide the system boards in) at each side of the inside bottom of the cube. (For each plate, lift the side closest to the rear opening and gently pull them out). Set them aside. 4. Using the NeXT tool, remove three screws holding the back-plane to the cube and then take the back-plane out of the cube. Let the cube rest for a while. Inspect the back-plane. You will see five bus slots (four vertical and one horizontal). The horizontal slot connects the back-plane to the power supply housing. We're only interested in the four vertical slots. From the factory these slots are configured as 6, 2, 0, and 4 (starting from the left and going right with the horizontal slot at the bottom). The system board connects to slot #0 (which you've probably noticed). Each slot contains three columns of 32 pins. Following is an ASCII representation of one of the slots: x y z C B A o-o o 32 . . . o-o o 31 . . . o-o o 30 . . . o-o o 29 . . . 28 . . . . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . ...where x, y, and z are labeled GND, SID, and VCC, respectively. The GND, SID, and VCC "holes" are used to configure the slot number using simple binary encoding, where GND is logical zero, VCC is logical one, and SID (for Slot-ID I guess) determines the current bit state (one or zero). Notice the four rows of GND, SID, VCC triads; each row is equivalent to one bit position in the slot number, the bottom row bit position 0, the top row bit position 3. This gives a total of four bit positions, or 16 possible slot numbers. To encode a slot number, you need to connect an SID row to its corresponding GND or VCC row. For example, the diagram below shows the configuration of the slots in my cube's back-plane (you'll have to look very closely to see the actual connections): SLOT 6 SLOT 2 SLOT 0 SLOT 4 BIT 3: o-o o o-o o o-o o o-o o BIT 2: o o-o o-o o o-o o o o-o BIT 1: o o-o * o o-o * o-o o o-o o BIT 0: o-o o o-o o o-o o o-o o 5. To reconfigure slot 2 as slot 0, cut the trace between SID and VCC for bit position 1 (see * o o-o * above) and connect SID to GND on the same row. I used the SIMM removal tool supplied by NeXT in the 040 upgrade (talk about multi-purpose) to cut the trace! Very gently, scrape the solder off between the two holes. Take a paperclip, shape it to fit between the holes in SID and GND, and trim it down to an even 1/4 inch (perfect fit)! That's all there is to it. If for some reason you ever want to revert to slot 2, just remove the paperclip from GND-SID and reconnect it to SID-VCC. 6. Now put the cube back together. First, re-install the back-plane using its three connecting screws, then snap on the plastic plates, and finally insert the power-supply housing and secure with its two screws. At this point the cube is ready to take on the two system boards (it is up to you to determine where/how you want to use the two boards; I'll explain how I used mine) ... 7. I installed the 68040 in the original slot 0 and the 68030 in the reconfigured slot 0 (previously slot 2). The 68040 was used as the main processor board. I connected the 660 MB drive, the OD, and the monitor to it. NOTE: Before beginning the procedure, I went into the NeXT Monitor on the 68030 and disabled the Sound out, SCSI tests and verbose test mode and enabled serial port A as a console terminal. I also made "en" the default boot device. I setup the 68040 as a boot server and taught it about the 68030 (which took some time in getting it setup properly). 8. I connected the 68040 to the 68030 using a thin-ethernet cable and I booted. First thing I noticed was that the 030 timed-out a couple of times waiting for the 040 to tell it to boot. But after the 040 was up, the 030 booted nicely. That's all folks. Hope all this made some sense and people find it useful. Comments: * To power off the cube, I have to first shutdown the 030 (I run "halt -p" as root from a telnet connection and wait for the 030 to go down), and I then power-down the 040. If you shut down the 040 before the 030, you'll have to pull the power plug to turn the machine off. The cube will not power off if either of the two boards is providing a load to the power-supply. * Remember, I've only performed this procedure on one system. I do not know what will happen on your system. So make sure you plan ahead what your going to do and that you understand the procedure. * I don't know what problems may arise when you add a board that uses the NeXTbus, such as the NeXTdimension, or how it will behave. If someone is courageous enough to perform the procedure and installs another board, please post your results to the net. Update: To clear up some misunderstandings with the settings in the "p" command of the NeXT monitor (these settings are only required for the system board that doesn't have the NeXT display monitor connected): 1. Sound out test must be "no"; the boot process will not proceed if the monitor isn't connected to the board and this is set to "yes" (the sound out tests will fail, aborting the boot procedure). 2. SCSI tests should be "no" if you don't have SCSI devices attached to the board (SCSI tests will fail otherwise, aborting the boot procedure). 3. Verbose test mode must be "no" for booting from the network. If set to "yes", the boot process will timeout waiting for a BOOTP and you'll be left in the monitor with no means of restarting the board (except pulling the power plug)! This is probably true also for booting from an OD that hasn't been inserted (assuming the OD was attached to the board). 4. Allow serial port A as alternate console if you want to view the boot process (for problems and peace-of-mind). 5. Other settings were not modified from their factory defaults or had no effect on the procedure. There is also a way in using 2 boards plus NeXTDimension board in one Cube. I've run my "screw with the backplane trick" cube with : | <empty> | 32MB-ND | | 64MB-040 | 40MB-030 | without any problems. Using the od got the system warm, but never had a problem. The cool part was having the printer on the 030. One day I tried to dump an 040 into the 030 position, but I couldn't get it to boot. I played for a couple minutes, but put the 030 back in and went on with life... 5.41 How to expand DSP memory? memory, DSP DSP, memory The Speech Recognition Lab at San Francisco State University has developed a DSP memory expansion board for the NeXT computer that provides the maximum memory supported by the DSP56001 processor. We are now offering this board to those whose are interested in high-performance custom DSP development. * The board is a 576KB DSP expansion memory board organized as three non-overlapping 192KB banks: X-data, Y-data and Program. The board uses relatively fast ( * The board is a high-quality, 4-layer board, open-circuit tested prior to assembly. It fits into the DSP memory daughterboard slot on all NeXT machines. * The price will be $600. Please let us know if you are interested. Delivery will be in about 3-4 weeks. * Contact Tom Holton (th@ernie.sfsu.edu). E-mail is preferred. The address is: Tom Holton Division of Engineering San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA 94132 415 338 1529 (phone) 415 338 0525 (fax) NOTE: Because we've organized our memory as three separate (non-overlapping) banks (X, Y and P) of 192KB apiece, none of the DSP memory image functionality provided by NeXT with its existing 8K base configuration, or its 96KB DSP expansion module is supported. While we cannot guarantee that every existing DSP application ever written will be plug-and-play compatible with our DSP expansion memory, we are not aware of any existing applications that use the image functionality. The MusicKit, and demo programs that use the DSP, such as Mandlebrot and ScorePlayer, work fine with our memory module. 5.42 How to boot a NeXT without a monitor? The procedure is to just touch pins 6 and GND on the DB-19 NeXT monitor out with a 470 Ohm resistor (450 is the actual resistance, but 470 ohms is more commonly found in resistors). Pin 6 is the power sense, and pins 13-19 (and the DB shell) are the GND. Just say "pin 19", it may be easier. There's a pinout diagram of the DB-19 in the NeXT Users Reference Manual. If you have an old Cube, the power supply needs to have more power drawn from it than an 030 (and 040?) board uses to stay on. So: On the DB-19, attach a Power Resistor (20 Ohm, at least 20 Watt) between pins 12 and GND. (Pin 12 is -12V, pin 13 works well for GND). Then just "touch" the 470 ohm resistor as described above, and you're set. The 20 Ohm resistor draws an old 030 running without monitor in an old CUBE), but it isn't necessary - just don't touch it (*HOT!* ;-) To power off, type "halt -p" as root on the machine (either through a terminal connected to port A, or over the ethernet connection). Also, you have to have the Rom Monitor settings done correctly. The important ones are: Wait until keypress? N Sound out tests? N Port A as alternate Console? Y (if you have one, it's nice) Verbose mode? N (I think this may need to be N to work, don't r emember). 5.43 Where can I get black spray paint for my NeXT? Black, spray paint paint, black spray You can get black spray from the following address. Sprayon Paint Omni-Packblend 4Next-Black (icon black) LAV-16 25216 Call 1-800-777-2966 for the name of a dealer near you. 5.44 What makes aged NeXT monitors dim? monitor, dim The cause of the dimming monitors is the CRT cathode wearing out. The most common type of CRT (and the type used in most NeXT monochrome monitors and all of the NeXT color monitors) uses what is called an oxide cathode. A thin coating of oxide is deposited on the cathode to allow the electronics which form the picture to get off the cathode easily. The oxide gradually boils off the cathode itself, and when the oxide is gone, the CRT goes dim. Typically, the oxide will last from 10,000 to 20,000 power on hours (screen savers don't help the cathode, they only prevent phosphor aging). Unfortunately, the black monochrome monitors fall into the short end of the life range thanks to Toshiba who made the CRT's. The aging is more noticeable in Unix machines because they tend to be left on. Note that there are about 8,000 hours in a year. If you leave your monitor on all the time, all oxide type CRTs will be dim in three years. The other type of CRT cathode is the I-cathode or dispenser type. This type of cathode is porous and continually brings new activation material to the surface. Its lifetime is 40,000 hours or more. The last of the NeXT monochrome monitors (N4000B) used this type of CRT and they don't go dim. There aren't many of that type around because NeXT quit the hardware business after producing only a few thousand. If you can get an N4000B monitor, you won't ever have to worry about a dim monitor. Many manufacturers are going to dispenser cathode type CRTs in their monitors with Panasonic leading the way. The best advice is to turn off the monitor when not in use. If that is impractical, try to purchase one with the long life cathode. Spherical Solutions (smg@orb.com) has a supply of new N4000B long life monitors for sale in either ADB or non-ADB configurations. If you need to repair or replace a monochrome monitor, that is by far the best type to use. If you read this far, you probably know more than you ever wanted to about CRT aging, but I hope this helps. 5.45 How to use two internal hard drives drives, two internal It is possible to fit a second internal hard drive in a NeXT slab, in addition to the floppy drive and the first hard drive. The second drive must be third height, or 1 inch high. There is no room for a half height device. Buy a bracket or make one out of sheet metal for the 1 inch high drive. On 25 MHz mono stations the SIMMs are smaller and the drive doesn't have to go all the way against the back wall. In this case, glue the bracket to the underside of the NextStation cover, centered from side t o side and as far to the back as possible. This is sufficient. On 25 MHz colorstations, however, one must file away a bit of the interior metal on the cover in order to glue the bracket fully to the rear of the cover. Once this modification is done, th e drive will clear the RAM when the cover is closed. Screw the drive into the bracket, with the power and SCSI plugs toward the right hand side of the NextStation so that the cables will reach. Go to your favorite computer store and get both a "dual int ernal SCSI bus cable" and a "dual internal SCSI power cable." Plug in the cables to both internal hard drives and close the cover. This was verified on both a 25 MHz mono and a 25 MHz color NextStation. No power or heating problems occurred. 6 WHITE (INTEL) HARDWARE 6.1 What about support for NeXT Computer specific hardware features such as the DSP? support, specific DSP, support support, DSP NeXT computers offer additional hardware support not commonly available for Intel systems. This includes the DSP. The DSP in a NeXT Computer is used for a variety of functions including ISDN support and real-time audio compression/de-compression. ISDN support for NEXTSTEP/Intel will be provided via an add-on PC card and ISDN adapter. Although the DSP programming feature is missing for NS3.3 on Intel, it is not necessary. The important SoundKit functions are rewritten to emulate an DSP on Intel, but this costs a lot of CPU time. 6.2 Do Multi-Architecture Binaries take a lot of extra disk space? MAB, disk space multi application binary, MAB The concept of NEXTSTEP binaries is different to other platforms. On NEXTSTEP only the real program is compiled and linked in a hardware specific manner. E.g. the GUI and the multilanguage support are usable on any platform running NEXTSTEP and will do so under OPENSTEP. Therefore the real binary part is sometimes really small. Anyway it might be a good choice to thin such a fat binary. NeXT ships tools for this purpose. Look at the manpages for lipo. If an application wasn't installed using the standard NeXT tool Installer, it might also be a good choice to look into the application drawer and delete other languages supported but not used by the application. This additional data is found in the different *.lproj subdirectories in the application's folder. To get there, activate the application's icon and select Open as directory from the Workspace's File menu item. 6.3 How difficult is it to recompile existing NeXT applications over to NEXTSTEP/Intel? compile, re Very easy. Most programs will simply recompile and run, or require few changes. We believe that any application that uses the standard development environment and Object kits provided by NeXT should simply compile and run. Only applications that use architecture specific features or data formats, will require additional time to port. Several developers have already ported applications to NEXTSTEP/Intel. Appsoft Draw simply recompiled and ran, Lighthouse Concurrence took 3 hours, other programs took 1/2 a day to 2 days, and this was all on a very early release of NEXTSTEP/Intel 3.1! Some applications just will refuse to compile, because they are still based on the old 2.0 headers etc. These applications are really rare now and may get ported very easily too, by changing the include path in your developer package. Other applications require additional header files and libraries to properly compile and link. These applications are mostly based on the MiscKit or MusicKit and other PD-Kits. You need to install these Kits first to compile these programs. With the shipping of OpenStep this might change, because it will be possible to produce shared libraries with the NeXT Developer package. This will enable you to not install the complete Kit, but only the shared library and will also reduce your binary noticeable. 6.4 When developing programs, are there any portability issues I should be aware of? portability Yes. As stated above, any applications that use the standard tools provided by the NEXTSTEP development environment, should just recompile and work. To make sure developers are aware of portability issues, NeXT is producing a guide to address source code portability between different architectures running NEXTSTEP. This guide is available in the online documentation to the NeXT Developer package. 6.5 What is the difference between the NEXTSTEP/Intel User Environment and Developer Environment? user vs. developer developer vs. user The NEXTSTEP/Intel User Environment consists of the entire NEXTSTEP 3.3 environment, minus the developer tools. The Developer Environment includes the developer tools such Interface builder, Project Builder, C compilers, Object Kits, example source code and developer documentation. Although it is possible to just get the latest GNU C compiler as a binary, you can not use it! This is because you won't get the standard libraries needed to produce NeXT applications neither the header files. Also it there is currently no third party compiler shipping. If you want to compile, you are forced to use the NeXT Developer package. The status of compiling a standard UNIX utility without NeXT's headers and just based on the supplied shared libraries is unknown. 6.6 If a specific I/O card is not supported by NeXT, can 3rd parties write drivers for NEXTSTEP/Intel? I/O driver Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel uses a newly developed object-oriented driver architecture that brings the benefits of object-orientation all the way down to the I/O card driver level. 6.7 How is NEXTSTEP/Intel installed? installation, Intel NEXTSTEP/Intel will come with a boot floppy and a CDROM. To install NEXTSTEP/Intel, the system boots from the floppy, and then installs the minimum NEXTSTEP environment from the CDROM (SCSI CDROM drive). The user may then chose from several optional packages depending on the available disk space and user requirements. 6.8 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on 386 machines? 386 Intel 386 No. NEXTSTEP/Intel uses several 486 specific features that enhance the performance of NEXTSTEP. NEXTSTEP/Intel will support any 486 with Coprocessor and up. 6.9 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the Cyrix 486SLC? 486SLC, Cyrix Cyrix, 486SLC NeXT states: No. The Cyrix chip not a true 486. several other users state: Yes. Slow performance, though. 6.10 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on the future Intel Microprocessors in the x86 family? x86 Intel, x86 Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel will not only support them, but will take advantage of any performance enhancements available with future Intel CPU's, just as NeXT has taken advantage of the 486. 6.11 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel run on portable computers? portable computers Yes. Many portables and notebooks with 486 CPU's and sufficient system resources (>=8MB RAM and >=120MB hard disk space) are available. Since NEXTSTEP/Intel will support 640x480 VGA displays in grayscale, NEXTSTEP 486 can run on these systems. Do be aware that NEXTSTEP's user interface and applications were not designed for low-resolution screens, and consequently will impose limitations on the use of some applications. 6.12 Will NEXTSTEP/Intel be able to run MS-DOS and Windows programs? MS-DOS Windows MS-Windows Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel will support a DOS and Windows compatibility package. This software will allow DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1 programs to run within a NEXTSTEP window. Support will include DOS "Protected" mode and Windows 3.1. This package is called SoftPC and comes with every NEXTSTEP system. The software is not free with NEXTSTEP, you have to pay extra. Anyway you are not limited in a 30 day test phase when installing it. Windows 95 and Windows NT are not supported by the emulation software. 6.13 How will my DOS and Windows applications perform under NEXTSTEP/Intel? MS-DOS, performance Windows, performance MS-Windows, performance Very well. The DOS/Windows compatibility package for NEXTSTEP/Intel takes full advantage of the 486 microprocessor. Depending on system hardware configuration and type of DOS/Windows application, performance should vary between 386 and 486 native DOS/Windows performance on Pentium systems. In addition, to enhance the performance of Windows applications, a MS Windows specific Graphics Device Interface (GDI) driver which maps Microsoft Windows calls directly to the NEXTSTEP window server is part of the system. 6.14 Is the window I use to run Microsoft Windows applications resizable? Windows, size MS-Windwos, size Yes. You can set the Windows session to any size you wish up to the maximum screen size available to the NEXTSTEP/Intel system you are using. 6.15 Will this DOS/Windows compatibility system allow me to run several DOS programs at once? MS-DOS, multitasking Yes. Since NEXTSTEP/Intel is a multi-tasking, virtual memory operating environment, several DOS/Windows sessions can be run at once. Hey, did I say Windows? Yes you can do real Windows multitasking with SoftPC. 6.16 Can I cut and paste between DOS/Windows sessions and NEXTSTEP applications? cut&paste, Windows cut&paste, MS-DOS cut&paste, MS-Windows Yes. You can cut and paste text and graphics between DOS/Windows and NEXTSTEP applications. 6.17 Can I use both DOS and NEXTSTEP/Intel partitions on the same hard disk? partitions, NeXT and DOS multi OS setup OS, more than one Yes. NEXTSTEP/Intel will support multiple operating systems on the same local hard disk. When the system boots, the user can chose to boot another operating system (such as DOS) or NEXTSTEP. If the local partition contains DOS, NEXTSTEP/Intel will be able to access the local DOS partition and read/write files to it, with the restriction on primary partitions only. Executive Summary: It is possible to install DOS, Windows NT with NTFS, and NEXTSTEP/Intel on the same disk, and select which partition is booted at boot time. I spent some time experimenting with a 200MB SCSI disk. I wanted to see if the following configuration would be possible: Partition 1 Primary DOS Partition 2 Extended DOS Partition 3 Windows NT NTFS Partition 4 NS/Intel 3.2 Since Windows NT requires at least 70MB for installation, and NS/Intel requires at least 120MB, there wasn't much room for DOS! Ultimately, I only tested a three partition system (DOS, NTFS, NS/Intel), but I have no reason to believe that the extended DOS wouldn't also work. The recipe is as follows: * Preparation. You need a bootable DOS floppy that has FORMAT.COM on it. You need another (blank) floppy for installing NT. * Start with the NS/Intel installation. When it asks you how you want to configure your disk, it gives you three choices, which are basically 1. erase the whole disk and use it all for NS/Intel, 2. save some room for DOS, 3. advanced. Choose the advanced option, which places you in NS/Intel fdisk (not to be confused with DOS FDISK.EXE). * Create three partitions in this order: 1. Primary DOS (if more than 32MB desired, use the "large" FAT option) 2. HPFS (this is a placeholder for NT, and can be any non-DOS format) 3. NEXTSTEP * Proceed with the rest of the NEXTSTEP installation. * When NEXTSTEP is safely installed and tested out, boot DOS from your bootable DOS floppy. * FORMAT the DOS partition (which should be Drive C if you made it the first partition). You want to FORMAT C:/S, to install the boot code to make the DOS partition bootable. * Once DOS is safely formatted and tested out, insert the NT installation floppy and reboot. * Proceed with the NT installation. Tell Setup to install NT in the second partition (which shows up as "Unformatted"). You can select NTFS for FAT format. * Insert the blank floppy when asked. Don't bother to format it, NT unconditionally formats it. * If you select NTFS, there is a scary part of the installation that makes it seem like NT can't reboot. In fact, it is converting the installed files from FAT to NTFS in place. Just let it keep rebooting until it finishes, don't interrupt it like I did. * Finish setting up NT and test it out. It should be able to see the DOS partition in FileManager. * Likewise, there should be a DOS filesystem in / on NS/Intel. If you configured NT for FAT instead of NTFS, there should be two DOS filesystems in /. That's it. When you boot, you see the familiar NS/Intel boot manager. If you select DOS, it boots NT, which in turn offers you a chance to boot DOS or NT (not NS/Intel, of course). Kind of weird that you have this two tiered boot, but it's probably because the bootsector has been modified by NT. I haven't tried setting the active partition to DOS -- that might avoid the two tiers. 6.18 Can NEXTSTEP/Intel read, write, and format DOS and Mac floppies? MacIntosh, r/w floppy MS-DOS, r/w floppy Yes. 6.19 NEXTSTEP/Intel 3.1, DOS, Linux/NT multi-boot system? multi OS boot Linux MS-DOS OS/2 boot manager dual boot The OS/2 boot manager does this nicely. NOTES ON INSTALLING DOS, OS/2 AND NEXTSTEP FOR DUAL BOOT * Boot OS/2 from diskette and press Escape to get to the [A:] command prompt * Run the OS/2 FDISK program and create the following partitions: + 1 MB Boot Manager + 20MB DOS Primary partition (drive C:) + 64MB OS/2 Extended partition (logical drive D:) + 120MB Data Extended partition (logical drive E:) (or 200MB or whatever size) NOTE: LEAVE THE REMAINING 460+MB FREE SPACE UNFORMATTED DO NOT CREATE A PARTITION FOR THE REMAINING SPACE * Re-boot the machine and boot DOS from diskette. * Format drive C: and install DOS on drive C: with the following command: format c: /s /u * Now Re-boot the machine with the OS/2 Installation diskette. * Install OS/2 on Drive D: (the 64 MB logical partition) You will be prompted to install OS/2 on the default drive C: You will need to select the option to change the drive which will throw you into FDISK. Just make drive D: installable and proceed. * After OS/2 has been installed shutdown the system. Do a cold power off boot. * Cold boot the machine with the NEXTSTEP boot diskette. * Proceed with normal NEXTSTEP install and you should get the following disk installation option screen: Type 1 to erase the entire disk and use all 667 MB ... Type 2 to set aside some space for DOS and use the rest ... Type 3 to keep existing partitions and use the 462 MB free space ... Type 4 to use the 184 MB DOS extended partition for NEXTSTEP. Type 5 for advanced options (in English only). ---> Choose option number 3 and proceed with the NEXTSTEP install * After NEXTSTEP has been installed, re-boot the machine and select 'd' from the NEXTSTEP boot manager menu to boot DOS. * When DOS has booted, run the FDISK program to set the active partition to the first partition, the BOOT Manager partition. Then exit fdisk. * Now run the DOS FDISK program again but with the following parameter: fdisk /mbr This command removes the NEXTSTEP boot manager from the DOS partition. * Now re-boot the machine and the boot manager should come up. Select OS/2 * Once OS/2 has booted, run the OS/2 FDISK program and name the NEXTSTEP partition and add it to the boot manager menu. * You should now have a machine with DOS, NEXTSTEP, OS/2 listed in the boot manager menu when the machine starts up. The boot manager defaults to the OS that was last booted. 6.20 NeXTSTEP on INTEL, KEYBOARD-ERROR ... keyboard error, Intel We installed NeXTSTEP for Intel on a P5-Board using an Adaptec A1540 SCSI-Controller. The System boots correctly. After running the kernel the keyboard is without any function. We can't use it anymore. Rebooting doesn't eliminate the error (advise from I-Guide). Well, it seems that the PS/2 Mouse driver interferes with the keyboard driver when installing on some motherboards. You have to remove the PS/2 mouse driver, then reboot, and it will work fine. I destroy the driver on our machines, so that config=Default will work properly as well. You should be able to remove the driver without reinstalling. 6.21 NS 3.2 Tseng ET4000 Video Driver doesn't work. ET4000, NS3.2 TSENG Cards often have different DACs and BIOS-Versions. It is important, that the graphics card do have the original BIOS from TSENG Laps. Otherwise, it is not possible to run NS with the 1024 x 768 resolution. 6.22 Accessing ROM monitor on Intel-System, how? ROM-Monitor, Intel On Intel you just type -s at the boot: prompt. Also try CTRL-C at the point where it hangs it might continue. This gives you single user mode. There simply is no ROM-Monitor on Intel as it is on NeXT. You do have the choice to enter a simple ROM-Debugger by choosing the appropriate option when the system hangs. 6.23 Adaptec 2940 Fast and Sync. SCSI explanation... This message is to clear up the confusion on the issue of whether or not the NEXTSTEP driver for the Adaptec 2940 PCI SCSI Host Adapter supports Fast SCSI (i.e., 10 MB/s data transfers). The Adaptec 2940 SCSI Host Adapter Driver supports Synchronous Data Transfer as well as Fast SCSI transfers. In order to enable Synchronous Data Transfer, this feature must be enabled in both the 2940's AutoSCSI program and in the NEXTSTEP Configure application, when configuring the Adaptec 2940 driver. In the AutoSCSI program, this feature is enabled in the SCSI Device Configuration menu, via the "Initiate Sync Negotiation" field. This can be enabled or disabled on a per-target basis. In the Configure application, the "Synchronous" button, if disabled, disables Synchronous Transfers for ALL targets. If enabled, the values selected in the AutoSCSI program are used to determine whether or not Synchronous Transfers occur on a per-target basis. The Synchronous Transfer data rate is determined in the 2940's AutoSCSI program, via the "Maximum Sync Transfer Rate" field in the SCSI Device Configuration menu. "Fast SCSI" Transfers are enabled by selecting a value of 10 (i.e., 10 Megabytes/seconds) for this field. Note that if Synchronous Transfers are disabled, the "Maximum Sync Transfer Rate" field is meaningless. Also note that it is not recommended to select a value higher than 5 for a device which is in an external enclosure and connected to the 2940 via an external SCSI cable. 6.24 Do EIDE-Drives work with NEXTSTEP? EIDE Yes, a driver is included in NEXTSTEP 3.3 6.25 Anyone have a driver yet that does 8 bit color on an ET4000/w32p card? (Hercules Dynamite Pro VLB) ET4000/w32p, 8 Bit color Here's a trick that will work with 3.3 if the driver works with your adapter. You need the latest driver though. Simply select one of the 8-bit gray resolutions in Configure. Save the configuration and quit Configure. Open Instance0.table inside the driver bundle and search for BW:8 and replace it by RGB:256/8. Save the file. Restart your machine and you've got 8-bit color!!! 6.26 Does a Glidepoint pointing device work with NEXTSTEP? Glidepoint It will work nicely under NS as you don't need any driver to make it work and use the nice features that GlidePoint have, like 'double-tap' to replace left-button click and 'double-tap and slide on the pad' to replace the hold the button and move for dragging an object. 6.27 AppleTalk under NEXTSTEP/Intel? AppleTalk, Intel IPT has a product called Partner, which works fine under 3.3 and mounts AppleShare Volumes, supports AT printing etc. (This is true, although IPT states that Partner only runs under 3.3 Black and 3.2 Intel.) 6.28 Booting hangs with black screen Triton Bootoptions On some Triton based boards there seems to be a graphic problem while booting. The solution is to switch off graphic display and always boot with the '-v' option turned on (enter this at the 'boot:' prompt). If you don't get a 'boot:' prompt, or if you just want to fix things forever, you need to enter Default.table and Instance0.table in /usr/Devices/System.config and set 'BootGraphics="No"'. This has the same effect as typing '-v' at the 'boot:' prompt every time. Setting BootGraphics=NO can also be done from the Expert panel in Configure.app 6.29 Why are the features of my graphic card useless? graphic card For the purposes of this discussion, I will limit my response to the manner in which DPS operates as part of the NEXTSTEP window server. DPS sometimes draws directly to the screen and sometimes to offscreen memory (buffered windows). The latter is the most common case. The former occurs only in nonretained windows and visible portions of retained windows. DPS is split into two sections: a device independent kernel and a device dependent driver layer. The driver layer is free to use graphics hardware to do its job; however there are complications. First, most graphics cards only allow you to use the hardware to draw into the framebuffer, not into system memory. This renders the hardware unusable for buffered windows. Second, the hardware must draw the same pixels that the software would draw. Often this is hard to achieve with satisfactory performance results. The DPS device primitives rely on precise pixel layout that often cannot be guaranteed using the hardware in the most straightforward manner. So, while it is theoretically possible to use graphics hardware with DPS in NEXTSTEP, it is not very practical. This should not lead you to the conclusion that all graphics cards are the same when it comes to NEXTSTEP. The speed of the system bus (ISA, EISA, PCI, VLB) is a big determinant of performance, but the internal architecture of the card itself also has a huge impact on the framebuffer memory bandwidth. I won't go into details, but some of the determinants include DRAM vs. VRAM, memory interleaving, and burst access. Other factors also influence the quality of a display card. These include the speed and stability of the RAMDAC and the supported display modes to name jsut two. 6.30 How to use MIDI without the MusicKit? MIDI MusicKit * Be sure you have an MPU-401 compatible MIDI card for the PC. * Get the Music Kit and install it. It's on the ftp servers. * Install the MIDI driver by double clicking on /LocalLibrary/Devices/Mididriver, which will add it to the system. Set the IRQ and IO port in the Configure.app. Then reboot. * If your program does not use the -ObjC flag on its link line, link against /usr/local/lib/libmusickit.a. However, if your program does use the -ObjC flag, extract the following files from libmusickit.a and link against them explicitly: mididriver_replyServer.o mididriverUser.o mididriver_nonMig.o * Add this line as the first line in the C file that accesses the MIDI driver: #import <musickit/midi_driver_compatability.h> Be sure that you do not explicitly import . This file is (conditionally) imported by . The reason for needing a separate API for Intel is that there's a structure size disparity between the 68k and Intel versions of NeXT's libsys_s. So we defined a new set of MIDI functions for the Intel driver. The header file above defines the old names to be the new names. * Change the mididriver port name from mididriver to Mididriver. Example: #if i386 #define MIDIDRIVER_NAME "Mididriver" #else #define MIDIDRIVER_NAME "mididriver" #endif r = netname_look_up(name_server_port, "",MIDIDRIVER_NAME, &driverPort); This is another change to prevent conflict with the NeXT hardware driver. 6.31 Installation problems with EIDE and ATAPI drives EIDE installation ATAPI Load the SCSI driver and then load the EIDE driver. Don't follow the directions they give you (which are to load the CD's driver and then load the hard drive's driver). Do it backwards, so that the hard drive you are installing to gets assigned sd0. By swapping drivers like this, the CDROM gets sd1 which is what the installation procedure expects. I guess that what happened is that the EIDE driver makes the CDROM drive masquerade as a SCSI device. And SCSI ids will be assigned to devices in the order that you load the drivers. Since the OS wants to load to sd0, that means that you have to load the hard drive's driver before the CDROM's driver, especially in this case where the CD is on one bus and the HD is on another. By doing this, the CD doesn't steal sd0 away before the SCSI driver is loaded. My guess is that if you had the CD and the hard drive on the same bus (EIDE or SCSI) you'd never have this trouble. It's just the fact that there are two busses that confuse the installation. Anyway, this worked for me (Don Yacktman don@misckit.com). 6.32 Error message during boot time error, during boot message, bootstrap The following is a common error message you might encounter during the boot process just before the workspace starts up: bootstrap_register failed -- 102. You may ignore it savely. It will only occur if you didn't installed a sound driver. 6.33 Does NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP run with ... compatibility Although there are problems running NEXSTEP/OPENSTEP in conjunction with certain hardware, these problems are rare and most people got it working somehow. It's best to buy supported add-on cards listed in the Intel-Configuration section of NeXTanswers http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/. However most mainboards do work. Yes, this includes Pentium-Pro processors. NO, this excludes MP support (if you don't know what it is, never mind) (Okay, MP: Multi-Processing. Some boards are capable to keep more than one processor. However NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP doesn't take advantage of more than one processor). Also most multiprocessing boards do work with a single or more processors (even if a second or further processors aren't utilized) there are reports which indicate that there are problems with these boards. 6.34 RAM greater 64MB, now I get a black screen! screen, black black screen Many users discouver a nice effect: They add RAM to their computer so they have more than 64MB of RAM installed. After rebooting NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP only a black screen appears and the system is stalled. This is a common problem. Reboot using the default configuration or with the VGA driver installed. Run Configure and select your graphic driver. Enter a value greater 64MB (in hexadecimal numbering, eg.0xA000000) and save. That's it. Previously your drivers memory did collide with your computers memory. 6.35 Lost root password root, password password, root The following is a method on how to change the root password on an Intel based computer. However if the system is booted over a network this won't help. Boot in single user mode supplying '-s' to the boot prompt. Once the system is halted. Start NetInfo by running 'sh /etc/rc'. Now use 'nu -m' to change the password and reboot (enterying 'reboot' of course. Not pressing the power button! I didn't had to tell this, did I?) 7 STORAGE 7.1 Disktab help needed: ST15230N disktab ST15230N Seagate, ST15230 This is the /etc/disktab entry for the SEAGATE ST15230N. ST15230N_1024|SEAGATE ST15230N_1024:\ :ty=fixed_rw_scsi:nc#3992:nt#19:ns#59:ss#1024:rm#5411:\ :fp#160:bp#0:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\ :os=sdmach:z0#32:z1#96:hn=localhost:ro=a:\ :pa#0:sa#512000:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#8:da#4096:ra#10:oa=time:\ :ia:ta=4.3BSD:\ :pb#512000:sb#512000:bb#8192:fb#1024:cb#8:db#4096:rb#10:ob=time:\ :ib:tb=4.3BSD:\ :pc#1024000:sc#716800:bc#8192:fc#1024:cc#8:dc#4096:rc#10:oc=time:\ :ic:tc=4.3BSD: \ :pd#1740800:sd#1536000:bd#8192:fd#1024:cd#8:dd#4096:rd#10:od=time:\ :id:td=4.3BSD: \ :pe#3276800:se#1150000:be#8192:fe#1024:ce#8:de#4096:re#10:oe=time:\ :ie:te=4.3BSD: 7.2 Formatting DEC DSP3105 with 1024-byte blocks. DEC, DSP3105 DPS3105, 1024 block size disktab A DEC DSP3160S was reformatted with 1024-byte blocks using the following entry in /etc/disktab (two partitions) # DEC DSP3160S DSP3160S|DEC DSP3160S|DEC DSP3160S w/1024 b/sec as 2 partition:\ :ty=fixed_rw_scsi:nc#1302:nt#16:ns#75:ss#1024:rm#5403:\ :fp#160:bp#0:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\ :os=sdmach:z0#32:z1#96:r0=a:\ :pa#0:sa#744000:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#7:da#4096:ra#10:oa=time:\ :ia:ta=4.3BSD:\ :pb#744000:sb#818400:bb#8192:fb#1024:cb#7:db#4096:rb#10:ob=time:\ :ib:tb=4.3BSD: 7.3 My formatted disk has much less space then advertised! filesystem, overhead disk space space, disk filesystem, space Let's assume you bought a disk drive advertised with 400 MB unformatted capacity. Vendors are not consistent with the MB definition. You may have much less space less than you think you have. Which of the following did you buy? 400 * 1000 * 1000 = 400,000,000 bytes 400 * 1024 * 1000 = 409,600,000 bytes 400 * 1024 * 1024 = 419,430,400 bytes (for Quantum drives the following is true: Quantum defines 1MB to be exactly 1000000 Bytes). The disk must be formatted. This is often done by the vendor, but occasionally by the user. Formatting maps the disk into sectors. Space is reserved for the disk geometry and bad sectors. Formatting can take 10-20% of the capacity depending on the sector size. Common sector sizes are 512 and 1024. Generally, bigger sectors mean less waste. Once formatted, the UNIX file system must be created. On the NeXT, this is one of the steps performed by the BuildDisk application. It invokes the mkfs command to make a file system. This reserves space for the UNIX file system (e.g., superblocks, inode tables). This overhead can take another 2-3% of the available disk space. If you issue the df command, you may be surprised to see another 10 the available disk space has disappeared. The df command shows the total, used, and available disk space. The df units are in kbytes (1024 bytes). The sum of the used and available numbers will generally be about 10 allow the UNIX file system to be efficient in its storage allocation. If your disk fills up, only the superuser can store files in the remaining 10%. To complete the picture, here's a snapshot of what may occur: Capacity Lost/Used/Reserved Reason (in bytes) (in bytes) 419,430,000 19,430,000 Marketing hype (~5\%) 400,000,000 60,000,000 Formatting (~15\%) 340,000,000 6,800,000 UNIX file system (~2\%) 333,200,000 33,320,000 Efficiency & superuser (~10\%) 299,880,000 For more information, refer to the df and mkfs man pages. 7.4 Can't initialise my disk within the Workspace initializing Sometimes there are problem initializing disks. This only occurs if the disk is already formatted, but in a different format, e.g. the sector size was changed etc. Mostly you can overcome this problem by using the sdformat utility available on the FTP sites. (Not sdform by NeXT, which is incapable to do this). After using sdformat, you should be abel to further format the media within Workspace. 7.5 Initialing Opticals for NeXT OD, NeXT optical disk, OD OD, initializing Do the following: /etc/mkfs /dev/rsd1a 288339 1803 2 8192 1024 12 10 60 4096 t 7.6 How to use a tape drive ? tape drive Using Configure.app add the SCSITape driver to support any SCSI tape drives in the "Others" config. 7.7 How to recover from an partially formatted disk? recover, disk Often people (mostly on Intel) complain about a formatted disk (sometimes partially) due to an installation process error of some other OS. There is a chance to recover most of the data. The following assumes you are on Intel, other hardware user have to handle things much less complicated, but the way is similar: * Prepare a new hard drive for booting * Don't try to repair the broken drive! * On Intel run fdisk to repartition the drive as it was before. If you are not able to do this, you are lost. Delete all evtl. new created partitions. By repartitioning, you won't loose data on the drive. * Run disk on the broken drive e.g. type disk -rsd1h. * Now scan the disk for superblocks by entereing the scan command at the interactive disk command prompt. * If your disk was partially formatted, use a higher superblock number to supply fsck with an new superblock. E.g. if a superblock was found at 3145 use fsck -b3145 -y /dev/sd1a (assuming the first partition is the broken one). * After this run, it is most important to reboot without syncing the drives! E.g. just turn off the computer without shutting down, or use the reboot -n command. * After rebooting the run fsck again, if it isn't done by the system itself. * You should be able to access the drive again now. Recovered files are placed in the /lost+found directory. 7.8 What about the ZIP drive? IOmega, ZIP ZIP drive There are frequently asked questions about the IOmega ZIP drive. One question will be answered here: 'Yes, it works with NEXTSTEP'. For other question I'd like to point you to the ZIP-drive FAQ: http://www.radical.com/TheSolutions/RadicalSolution4.html 7.9 How to partition a 4GB drive 4GB drive 2GB partition limit Quantum sizes If you are going to use large drives (greater 2GB) you need to partition this drive (true at least for OS versions up to 4.0). These are the common ways to go without too much trouble and it provides an very easy way for 4GB drives under NS3.3. 1. Solution: disktab + If you need more than 3 partitions, you have to write a disktab entry! Using fdisk (Intel systems only) has no effect. + On how to write a disktab entry, read the NeXTanswers (search for partition) + other pointers are: 'scsimodes' and 'man disktab'. 2. Solution: installation on drive to partition + for Quantum drives the following is true: Quantum defines 1MB to be exactly 1.000.000 bytes. So if you are suited best by using 2 partitions on a Quantum Atlas 34300 (4.3GB drive-Quantum size, 4GB+5MB real size) + 2 partitions are automatically handled on all NS3.3 platforms + To easily install the drive by not writing a disktab entry do the following: o disconnect all other drives and connect the 4GB drive with ID 0 o start a plain NS3.3 installation via disks and the CD-ROM o when the installation of files starts (text based output) you may break the procedure (the disk will get fsck'ed later) or wait until the system reboots and hangs :-) (no fsck needed then) o you should previously have read some line telling you: initializing sd0b o now reconnect your old boot drives and restart NEXTSTEP with the old boot drives. Switch the 4GB drive to a different ID. o Only the first partition of the 4GB drive will get mounted automatically, this is due to a documented bug in the automounter. o to permanently mount both partitions, add your drive partitions to the /etc/fstab file. Test mounting and umounting by hand first. o everything should work fine now after a second reboot, and if you set up your fstab file correctly, both partitions will get mounted. + To switch the boot partition to the new 4GB drive continue with: o only the first partition is bootable (you'll notice that by doing a ls -l on the mount entry --- there is the 't' file mode) o (cd / ; gnutar -clf -)|(cd ; gnutar -xvpf -) This transfers your root partition to the new partition. o now try a boot from the new drive, by entering in the boot prompt: sd(x)mach_kernel (bsd for NeXT) 7.10 How to mount/ignore a disk during boot fstab mount, during boot disk, protection protection, disk disk, ignore foreign filesystems filesystem, ignore If you just format a new disk attached to your computer, it will get automounted by the Workspacemanager and unmounted when you log out. To utilize the disk during the boot process or to have fixed pathes and protections you need to create an entry in /etc/fstab for the drive. See the Unix manual pages for more details. This is also the solution for ignoring disks or partitions of a disk with a foreign filesystem, which the Workspacemanager otherwises would prompt you for formatting. A common mistake for /etc/fstab is to inlcude the noauto keyword in subsequent mounts. Don't include this keyword for further mount entries! 7.11 Can't read multisession CD-ROMs! CD-ROM, multisession multisession Argh. Yes it's true. The original NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP drivers can't read multisession CD-ROMs. Only the first session can be used. If it is audio, CDPlayer is started if it's data it is just automounted to become accessable though Worksapce manager. Luckily there is a commercial driver out there, which enables NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP to take advantage of multisession CD-ROMs. CDXA Driver Price DM 48,- (about $US 30) Uwe Tilemann Tools GmbH Adolfstr. 5 D-53111 Bonn GERMANY Phone: +49 0228 98580-0 Fax: +49 0228 98580-17 Email: ut@Tools.DE (NeXTmail/MIME) WWW: http://www.Tools.DE/ 8 PRINTING 8.1 What printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? printer, NeXT Adding supported postscript printers is rather simple: * Get a serial cable (e.g., Macintosh to LaserWriter Plus), but check whether that works with your printer * Configure using Print Manager * Configure printer communication according to manufacturer's recommendations. (9600 baud software flow control). A sample printcap entry needs to be loaded into the netinfo database. You can use either niload printcap . , or use NetInfoManager to change the br and lp properties of your LaserJet. Using the default baud rate and /dev/ttya will also work, for most print jobs (if the printer is connected to this port). LaserJet_III: \ :note=LaserJet_III:ty=HP LaserJet III PostScript: \ :sd=/usr/spool/NeXT/LaserJet_III:lp=/dev/ttyfa: \ :lf=/usr/adm/lpd-errs:af=/usr/adm/lp.acct:br=19200:rw:fc\#0000374: \ :fs\#0000003:xc\#0:xs\#0040040:mx\#0:sf:sb:if=/usr/lib/transcript/psif: \ :of=/usr/lib/transcript/psof:gf=/usr/lib/transcript/psgf: \ :nf=/usr/lib/transcript/psnf:tf=/usr/lib/transcript/pstf: \ :rf=/usr/lib/transcript/psrf:vf=/usr/lib/transcript/psvf: \ :cf=/usr/lib/transcript/pscf:df=/usr/lib/transcript/psdf: HP printer configuration: auto cont = off (doesn't matter) I/O = serial serial=rs-232 (for LJ III only) baud rate = 19200 (or whatever baud rate you have in ni database/printcap) robust xon = on (doesn't matter) dtr polarity = hi startpage = off (doesn't matter) language=english ret = med (you choose for LJ III only) Note that if you modify the printcap this way you cannot reconfigure this particular printer entry with PrintManager. If you are using NEXTSTEP 2.0 and you use remote non-next printers, there is a bug that can be simply corrected by doing "dwrite system PrinterResolution 1" for each user trying to access non-next printers on the network. This not a problem in later NEXTSTEP versions. 8.2 What fonts can I use with NEXTSTEP? fonts Properly packaged Type 1 or 3 PostScript fonts will work with NEXTSTEP, but certain conversions may be necessary to get them to work. Freeware and shareware fonts are available on various ftp archives. There are utilities with NEXTSTEP to download fonts into postscript printers. Freeware and shareware Type 1 and 3 fonts in files Fonts-1.0-free.tar.Z and Fonts-2.0-sw.tar.Z. Each file unpacks into it's own directory. Within each directory is a ReadMe.rtf and a Makefile. See the ReadMe.rtf for more font descriptions and installation instructions. (You may also find comments in the Makefile of interest.) These packages were prepared by Doug Brenner . The same directory contains fonts Shalom (Hebrew and Yiddish in Old Style, Stick and Script typefaces, by Jonathan Brecher, shareware) and CyrillicGothic (san serif, by Jay Sekora). These were packaged by Jacob Gore to work with the Installer application. WSI-Fonts for NEXTSTEP \#1 Abstract Software POB 25045 Seattle, WA 98125-1945 Voice: 206 361 5080 info@abstractsoft.com Some fonts in Type 1 format for NEXTSTEP are also available from Y&Y: Y\&Y, 106 Indian Hill, Carlisle MA 01741 USA Voice: 800 742 4059 Voice: 508 371 3286 Fax: 508 371 2004 71172,524 on CompuServe 71172.524@compuserve.com from InterNet There is a font converter available in the MetroTools package by MetroSoft (info@metrosoft.com). 8.3 How can I save my printable documents to a postscript file? PS to file Select PRINT from the main menu, then select SAVE from the resulting print panel. 8.4 How can I print only the even or odd pages of a document? odd and even pages even and odd pages duplex printing double sided print I wish print on both sides by feeding the paper through twice. We must recommend against re-using laser printed paper in your printers. The reason is that the toner which is used is not very robust, in that when heated again (which happens when you print) it can come off the other side of the paper. This causes a mess to accumulate in your printer, and probably some pretty rude things to happen. psutils from comp.sources.misc is a much better solution, and includes a lot more capabilities, plus it is being updated constantly. 8.5 How do I get banner pages on my printer output? banner There is a sample banner prologue file in /usr/lib/NextPrinter that is sent to the printer before or after the print job depending on what printer attributes are set in NetInfo. Sounds gross, but it isn't. Start up NetInfo on your printer machine. Go to the printer directory, and open up your local printer by double clicking it. Select the append property from Directory menu. Replace the name with BannerAfter (or BannerBefore if you want the banner page printed first). The select the New Value option, and put in the name of the banner prologue file. If you do not wish to do fancy customization of the file, simply put the path to the NeXT sample banner file: /usr/lib/NextPrinter/banner.pro Save out the netinfo modifications. 8.6 How do I get [la]TeX files to print correctly on non-NeXT printers? Latex TeX If you are printing to a non-NeXT printer from NeXT TeX using dvips, make sure you specify the correct resolution (300 dpi, usually), either on the command line with -D300, or in the /usr/lib/tex/config.ps file with a line that looks like : D 300 If you are printing from within TeXView, you will have to choose CustomResolution and enter the correct number (300, usually) because of the way DefaultResolution defaults to 0. 8.7 What if I have a PostScript font has not been ported to NEXTSTEP? PS-Font to NeXT Many PostScript fonts port to NEXTSTEP with little effort. The easiest case is a font generated by Fontographer version 3.2 or above (a comment near the top of the file should say which program generated the font). This version of Fontographer can generate fonts "for NEXTSTEP". This means that no hacking of the font is needed, but you may need to make some adjustments to make it appear in your font panel. Suppose you were porting the font family Shalom, which consists of three faces: Old Style, Stick and Script. Here is the procedure to follow: * In a working folder of yours, create folders called: Shalom-OldStyle.font Shalom-Script.font Shalom-Stick.font Note that the font family name is to the left of the hyphen ("-"), and the typeface name is to the right and with no spaces in it. * Copy the outline font file for each typeface from wherever it is into its folder, and give it the name of the folder minus the ".font". For example, if you are doing this in a Terminal window: cp /Floppy/ShalomOldStyle.NeXT Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle cp /Floppy/ShalomScript.NeXT Shalom-Script.font/Shalom-Script cp /Floppy/ShalomStick.NeXT Shalom-Stick.font/Shalom-Stick If you are working in Workspace Manager's File Viewer, double-click on the big fat F icon to open the font directory as a folder, then you'll be able to rename files in it. * Do the same thing with the font metric files, but make the suffix ".afm": cp /Floppy/ShalomOldStyle.AFM Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle.afm cp /Floppy/ShalomScript.AFM Shalom-Script.font/Shalom-Script.afm cp /Floppy/ShalomStick.AFM Shalom-Stick.font/Shalom-Stick.afm * If there is a "read me" file with the font, or any other documentation, copy it into the .font folder too. For example, each of the Shalom font folders contains files ReadMe, CheatSheet.wn and Sample.wn specific to the typeface. * Edit the outline and font metric files to make them fit the NeXT AppKit's Font Panel, which is what most NextStep applications use to let you choose your font. + Editing the outline file, e.g., Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle: The original used "ShalomOldStyle" as the font's name, full name, and family name. We want the name to be "Shalom-OldStyle", the full name "Shalom Old Style", and family name just "Shalom". First, find the lines: /FullName (ShalomOldStyle) readonly def /FamilyName (ShalomOldStyle) readonly def and change them to: /FullName (Shalom Old Style) readonly def /FamilyName (Shalom) readonly def Then, replace all remaining occurrences of the string "ShalomOldStyle" with "Shalom-OldStyle". + Editing the AFM file, e.g., Shalom-OldStyle.font/Shalom-OldStyle.afm. Find the lines: FullName ShalomOldStyle FamilyName ShalomOldStyle and change them to: FullName Shalom Old Style FamilyName Shalom Replace all remaining occurrences of the string "ShalomOldStyle" with "Shalom-OldStyle". Repeat this procedure for the remaining typefaces. * You now have a font family ready to be installed. If the font family is to be used by your account only, place it in /Library/Fonts (creating it if necessary): mkdirs ~/Library/Fonts mv Shalom-*.font ~/Library/Fonts buildafmdir ~/Library/Fonts If everybody on your system should have access to this font family, place it (as superuser) in /LocalLibary/Fonts: su mkdirs /LocalLibrary/Fonts mv Shalom-*.font /LocalLibrary/Fonts buildafmdir /LocalLibrary/Fonts exit That's all you need to do for fonts generated by Fontographer version 3.2 or above. This will work with all applications that use AppKit's FontPanel. FrameMaker does not, so other changes may need to be done to keep FrameMaker happy [does anybody have something to add here?]. Fonts generated by Fontographer version 3.1 or below don't work in Display PostScript as they are, because they use a memory management trick that screws everything up in a multitasking environment like DPS. However, there is a simple, though kludgy, way to make them work. The problematic trick uses a dictionary with a name like "Fog3.1" ("Casa1" in Casady & Green's fonts) in which most of the font resides. The problem is that Fontographer puts that whole dictionary into dictionary 'userdict' and expects it to stay there. DPS, however, clears out 'userdict' between tasks, including the task that loads the font and the task that uses it. This makes the font useless on the screen, and printable only by prepending the outline font file to the file you want to print and sending the result to print in one task. The fix is to move the troublesome dictionary from 'userdict' into the font dictionary itself (unlike 'userdict', the font dictionary does stick around between tasks). Perform the following changes in the outline font file (the font CyrillicGothic is used as the example): * Find the line "%%EndProlog". It will be followed by the line like this: /\$CyrillicGothic 23 dict def \$CyrillicGothic begin Write down the number before 'dict' (in this case, 23). You will need it in the following step. Delete the dict definition, making the line look like this: \$CyrillicGothic begin * Go back to the beginning of the file. near the top of the font program, find the following lines: userdict/Fog3.1 known\{\{currentfile( )readstring \{(\%\%\%)eq\{exit\}if\}{pop exit\}ifelse\}loop \}if userdict begin/Fog3.1 45 dict def Fog3.1 begin and replace them with these: /\$CyrillicGothic 24 dict def \$CyrillicGothic begin/Fog3.1 45 dict def Fog3.1 begin The number before 'dict' (in this case, 24) is one greater than the number you wrote down in the previous step. * Find the line that defines procedure BuildChar: /BuildChar{Fog3.1/BuildChar get exec}def and change it as follows: /BuildChar{1 index begin Fog3.1/BuildChar get exec end}def * Go to the end of the file. The last line looks like this: /CyrillicGothic findfont/EFN get Fog3.1 begin\{RF\}forall end Delete it (or comment it out by placing one or more " beginning of it). The AFM file requires one adjustment. Change the line EncodingScheme AppleStandard to EncodingScheme AdobeStandardEncoding This concludes conversion of a font generated by Fontographer version 3.1 or lower to work with NEXTSTEP. You may still need to make the changes described for version 3.2 and above, to make the font fit the NEXTSTEP font panel. Short note: under NEXTSTEP 3.3 there is no need to call buildafmdir by hand. It's triggered automatically by the Font panel. 8.8 What color printers (laser or otherwise) may be used with NEXTSTEP? printer, color The (no longer sold) NeXT/Canon SCSI color printer, of course! With Dots Color, the HP DeskJet 500C can print in color today, under NEXTSTEP 2.1, and it costs significantly less than $1000 (in Germany at least). In Germany you can get more information from: d'ART Software GmbH Virchowstr. 17-19 W-2000 Hamburg 50 Germany Voice: +49 40 380 23 0 Fax: +49 40 380 23 290 software@dart.de JetPilot from Interpersonal Computer does this jobs also very well. You can get more information from: interpersonal computing GmbH Oettingenstrasse 2 W-80538 Muenchen Germany Voice: +49 89 22 28 63 Fax: +49 89 22 33 76 info@interpc.de 8.9 How can I make the Page Layout default to A4 in all applications? A4 default size Add "NXPaperType A4" in the "GLOBAL" preferences. 8.10 /usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/pstf: syntax error at line 31: `end of file' unexpected? Using lpr -t, or lpr -d causes this problem. eg: [...] cat /usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/pstf [...] Christopher Lane has pointed out 3 (three!) errors in the distributed NEXTSTEP 3.0 lpd.comm file The last change is my own. It worked for the 1 (one!) dvi file I tried. tilley\% diff lpd.comm.DIST lpd.comm 11,12c11,12 < while "x\$1" != x do < case "\$1" in --- > while test \$\# != 0 > do case "\$1" in 16c16 < -h) HOST=\$"; shift;; --- > -h) HOST=\$2; shift;; 17a18 > esac 21c22 < PRSERVER="/usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/prserver -p \$PRINTER -n \$USER -h HOST -f -" --- > PRSERVER="/usr/lib/NextPrinter/Server/prserver -p \$PRINTER -n \$USER -h \$HOST -f -" 27c28 < psdf) psbad \$FILTER \$PRINTER \$USER \$HOST | \$PRSERVER;; --- > psdf) dvips -f -D 400 -r | \$PRSERVER ;; 8.11 How to get TeX with NEXTSTEP to make proper fonts for a 600 dpi laserwriter? 600dpi TeX fonts TeX, 600dpi If you upgrade to a 600 dpi laserwriter then the version of TeX that ships with NEXTSTEP (either 2.X or 3.0) does not know about 600 dpi fonts, i.e. does not know how to make them and will instead use scaled 400 dpi ones (which look significantly worse at 600 dpi than they do at 400 dpi). Some simple modifications to a few Metafont files and rebuilding the metafont bases are all that is needed. What to do to get the 600 dpi stuff working is as follows: * Edit /usr/lib/mf/inputs/next.mf and add a laserjetIV mode. Simply copy the entire imagen mode, change the name to laserjetIV, and change the pixels_per_inch to 600. Save the changed file. * Build a new mf.base file by executing the following commands: inimf "plain; input next; dump" (as superuser): cp plain.base /usr/lib/mf/bases/mf.base * Edit /usr/lib/tex/ps/config.ps and change the `D 400' line to `D 600' (you may have `D 300' or something else if you've set up a different printer.) * Edit /usr/bin/MakeTeXPK (as superuser), adding the lines elif test $BDPI = 600 then MODE=laserjetIV right before the second `else' in the file. That should do it! You might have to (depending on how you configure NEXTSTEP for the LaserJet IV) select `custom resolution' and set the gadget to 600 in the TeXview print panel, and save Preferences. These instructions are written for an HP Laserjet IV, but they should also work for a QMS printer just fine. Finally, if you have one of these printers and work in a "mixed" environment with perhaps 400 dpi and/or 300 dpi printers that you also print to on a regular basis then you might want to consider getting Type 1 PS version of the Computer Modern fonts instead. They obviate the need for the instructions above, and the savings in disc space will be considerable since having printer fonts for several printers takes lots of room, and the file sizes for 600 dpi are quite large (the files grow roughly as D logD, where D is the resolution). These fonts are made by Blue Sky Research, and work beautifully. Y&Y software is a reseller for BSR and sells a "NEXTSTEP specific" version of them which comes with appropriate instructions and installation scripts. 8.12 How to get printer description files (PPD)? PPD, where? printer description files, PPD Adobe has a mail server and ftp site where you can get .PPD files. They are: ps-file-server@adobe.com (put "send help" in the mail body) ftp.mv.us.adobe.com 8.13 What are the Canon part numbers for ink cartridges equivalent to those NeXT's Color Printer uses? ink cartridge, Canon Canon, ink cartridge Part Numbers are: Red: BJI-643 M Yellow: BJI-643 Y Blue: BJI-643 C Black: BJI-643 Bk 8.14 JetPilot does not work with my JetDirect box, why? JetPilot, JetDirect JetDirect, JetPilot eXTRAPRINT It seems, that there is a bug in the /etc/rc-script. The bootpd is given with to arguments -a -f, which are not available for the bootpd under 3.3. Make an entry in /etc/bootptab like this: \# \# host htype haddr iaddr bootfile \# printer 1 XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX where * host: your given hostname for the printer (eg. picasso) * haddr: The Ethernet hardware address (Can be seen, if you press the TEST-Key on your JetDirect box. * iaddr: Is the hostaddress for the printer (eg. 192.42.172.1) Entries have to be done also in the Netinfo-database. It's like adding a new host. Insert the following line to your etc/rc.local script: \# \# Starting JetDirect-Printer configuration \# fbshow -B -I "Starting Printer initialization" -z 92 /usr/etc/bootpd -d /etc/bootptab >/dev/console 2>\&1 There is an additional FAQ available at: ftp://ftp.gscorp.com/pub/support/HP_JetDirect_Configuration.rtfd.tar.g z 8.15 powering down NeXTprinter during bootup, printer still works power down, printer printer, printer down Type the following to your rc.local. \#turn off NeXT laser printer. fbshow -B -I "Powering off NeXTprinter" -z 95 if [ -f /usr/etc/nppower ]; then sleep 3 /usr/etc/nppower off (echo 'powering off NeXTprinter') >/dev/console fi This works fine... the printer powers down immediately, and is available for any app which wants it. 8.16 How to set up the HP LaserJet 4M? HP Laserjet 4M I solved the problem by building a serial cable based upon the pinouts supplied by HP in their manual. Please note that the LJIII cable does not work. In particular, pin 1 from the DIN plug must be connected to pin 6 of the DB25. I used 38500 bps on both sides, and the 600 dpi ppd. Emulex offers the NETJet network interface which speaks lpd protocol, unlike the HP unit. 8.17 Laserwriter NTX & NEXTSTEP Laserwriter NTX This are the pin assignments. Eight-pin mini DIN-8 RS-422 Port Pin Signal Description 1,3 SG Signal Ground 4 TxD+ Transmit Data + 5 TxD- Transmit Data - 8 RxD+ Receive Data + 9 RxD- Receive Data - IBM-compatible DB-25 Plug LaserWriter DB-25 Plug Signal Pin Pin Signal Shield 1 ............ 1 Shield TxD 2 ............ 3 RxD RxD 3 ............ 2 TxD RTS 4 ............ 4 RTS CTS 5 ............ 5 CTS DSR 6 ............ 8 DCD GND 7 ............ 7 GND ............ 20 DTR The other aspect is to set the DIP switch on the printer. Here are the DIP switch settings: Switch 1 Switch 2 Meaning UP UP LocalTalk---RS-232 port disabled DOWN UP Serial ports at 1200 Baud UP DOWN Serial ports at 9600 Baud DOWN DOWN RS-232 at 9600 Baud; RS-422 at 0 Baud Switches 3 and 4 can probably be ignored---they're for strange stuff like Diablo 630 and HP LaserJet emulation modes. Switch 5 Switch 6 Meaning DOWN DOWN XON/XOFF UP UP XON/XOFF DOWN UP ETX/ACK UP DOWN DSR 8.18 Problems with gray levels in printout gray levels color space PS Level2 If you have problems with your shades of gray (e.g. light gray is indistinguishable from white) this might be well a problem in the Level2 Color Space calibration of your printer. To ensure, it's a problem of your printer (and not a problem of the printer driver or PPD file) try the following: * Save a printout to a file * Edit the following line in your printout file: /\_NXLevel2 systemdict/languagelevel known {languagelevel 2 ge}{false}i felse \_\_NXdef to: /\_NXLevel2 false \_\_NXdef * Send the modified file directly to the printer using the commandline command lpr. If you still have problem with the shades of gray, the printer driver/PPD file is probably broken, otherwise your printer is broken, which means he has problems with the Level2 color space calibration (The given correction turns PS Level2 off). 8.19 Can't print using additional fonts printer, fonts In rare circumstances some printers refuse to print, if they don't recognize a font. In these cases add the _nxfinal form property to the printer's property list with NetInfo. 9 OBSOLETE BUT STILL INTERESTING? This chapter contains information covered in the early days of the FAQs. It is not updated anymore. Note that with new releases of NEXTSTEP and OpenStep some information might still be useful to those, who e.g. didn't update. 9.1 Where can I get NeXT paraphernalia? Paraphernalia NeXT paraphernalia are no longer available. Let's stop reading 1 minute and remember the times ..... Thanks! 9.2 Is there any way to change the text in the title bar of a terminal window? There is no way of changing the title bar of a Terminal.app window in 2.x; in 3.x there is. Check Preferences (Title Bar): set CustomTitle, type in the title, and hit CR (or Set Window) and voila! [From: andre@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Andre Roberge)] Actually, there is a way to change the title bar of a Terminal window in 2.x (at least in 2.1 which is what I am using). It is somewhat limited but it might be useful to some. The trick is to make a symbolic link between /bin/csh (or whichever shell one wishes to use) and a file in / named "Whatever_you_want_to_appear_in_the_title_bar". Then select this new "shell" in the terminal preference and, voila!, you'll have your terminal window with /Whatever_you..... in the title bar. You can edit Stuart's titlebar interactively from the "Window..." Inspector (Command-3). Stuart provides emulation of certain Operating System Command (OSC) sequences which can be used to modify the titlebar under subprocess control. Stuart can change the title of the current window from the command line. In Stuart is possible to get more descriptive titles by linking /usr/ucb/rsh to /usr/hosts/. Then by adding /usr/hosts to your Stuart ShellPath you can then get the hostname into the title bar: $ dwrite StuartShellPaths <various dirs>:/usr/hosts You should then type in the hostname as the shell to invoke (disable the "Shell reads .login file" for this. You can also add hosts to your .Stuartrc file: Shell=golem.ps.uci.edu SourceDotLogin=NO WinLocX=545 WinLocY=563 Lines=24 | WinLocX=76 WinLocY=833 For the localhost, link /bin/csh to /usr/hosts/, or even better /usr/local/bin/tcsh instead of using rsh. [From: Garance A Drosehn ] For what it's worth, I do this with a script called "telnet_to" and a (bash) function called "telnet_window". The function simply does a local soil_pars="-Lines 32 -Keypad YES -Reverse \ YES -Strict YES -TestExit YES"; soil -Shell "telnet_to $1" $soil_pars and the script is just: #!bin/sh /usr/ucb/telnet $* echo ' ' echo ' --> telnet exited, press enter to close window.' read -r Waste_Var exit 0 This has a number of advantages, not the least of which being that I can pop up a "telnet_window" to anywhere. I don't have to create links for each host (though I do create aliases for the most common hosts), and I can type "telnet_window" (or, e.g., "tel_aix") as a unix command. Also, if I lose the connection suddenly then the window stays around until I get a chance to see what happened. I use telnet instead of rsh because I generally connect to hosts which won't accept rsh's. 9.3 I can't get my pictures in OmniWeb OmniWeb You have to install the OmniImage.service in your /Library/Services or /LocalLibrary/Services (This is also a nice way to get pictures converted in other applications as well. You can ftp this from ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de 9.4 How do I remap the and | keys on my keyboard? Keyboard NeXT introduced a new keyboard configuration with the 040 products. The | keys which had been located on the main keyboard was moved to the numeric keypad. Many users have since complained about it, and a work around is to remap these keys using the demo application Keyboard (/NextDeveloper/Demos/Keyboard), Mike Carlton's keyboardfix program: ftp.cs.orst.edu:/pub/next/sources/next-interface/keyboardfix.tar.Z ...which lets you put these keys on shift-return or shift-delete. One can hope that there will be a choice of keyboards in the future. 9.5 How do I stop NeXTMail/Sendmail adding &Mcirc;s onto the end of lines? Sendmail In /etc/sendmail.cf make this change: [old code] ##### UUCP Mailer specification ##### Muucp, P=/usr/bin/uux, F=msDFMhuU, S=13, R=23, [new code] ##### UUCP Mailer specification ##### Muucp, P=/usr/bin/uux, F=msDFMhuU, S=13, R=23, E=\n, This has been fixed in 3.1, and the default mailhost sendmail is UUCP oriented. 9.6 Why does NEXTSTEP 1.0 hang a few seconds after attempting to boot? Boot hang, NS1.0 Release 1.0 contains a bug that can corrupt the kernel /odmach if a user attempts to launch /odmach from the browser. The solution is to copy a clean /odmach from another NeXT system. Be sure to change the permissions of the newly installed /odmach to remove execute permissions to prevent future occurrences of the same problem. Release 1.0a and beyond do not have this problem. It is possible for the sdmach to get corrupted in the same way. Boot from the OD, copy an uncorrupted version of the kernel to the hard disk, and remove the execute bits from sdmach. 9.7 Modem hangs under NS2.0 by incoming calls modem calls, incoming There is a bug in the serial driver which causes getty to get stuck. The situation arises after a successful uucico connection, subsequent connections via modem will get a connection with the modem, but no login prompt. This is caused by getty hanging. A simple work around is to have a process run in cron to reset the getty every 15 minutes: #! /bin/sh -u PIDS=`ps -ax | bm getty | grep -v bm | awk '{print $1}'` kill -TERM $PIDS Of course trying to connect when the script is running will not allow you to connect, try again a minute later. This fix will not affect on-going UUCP or interactive connections. This will probably be fixed in the next kernel release. This bug is corrected in NEXTSTEP 2.1 and later releases. 9.8 NS2.0 doesn't recognize /LocalApps path /LocalApps, NS2.0 Workspace has its own internal application path. In 2.0 /LocalApps was omitted. Improv needs to have /LocalApps in the Workspace path if you have Improve installed in /LocalApps. The work around in 2.0 only is: dwrite Workspace ApplicationPaths "~/Apps:/LocalApps:/NextApps: \ /NextDeveloper/Apps:/NextAdmin:/NextDeveloper/Demos" This bug is corrected in NEXTSTEP 2.1 and later releases. _________________________________________________________________ This document was converted from LaTeX using Karl Ewald's latex2html. -- -- Bernhard Scholz (IRC: Boerny) scholzb@pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de http://peanuts.leo.org/ scholz@ve1.rm.op.dlr.de http://www.leo.org/~scholz/
From: scholz@NOSPAM.peanuts.org (Bernhard Scholz - remove NOSPAM) Newsgroups: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: The NeXT-FAQ (Frequently asked questions) Date: 11 Apr 1998 01:40:59 GMT Organization: [posted via] Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany) Distribution: world Message-ID: <6gmhnb$2n1$1@xeres.hsh.stusta.mhn.de> References: <6gmch1$kkk$1@union.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Due to a software bug, the FAQ was accidently posted twice. Please excuse the double posting. Aufgrund eines Softwarefehlers wurde das FAQ fälschlicherweise 2x geposted. Ich bitte dies zu entschuldigen. Bernhard. -- Bernhard Scholz http://www.leo.org/~scholz/ Peanuts FTP Admin http://peanuts.leo.org/ scholz@leo.org, (StuSta ONLY: boerny@xenia.hsh.stusta.mhn.de)
From: colinj@viper.cs.unm.edu (Colin Eric Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Looking for: schematic drawing program Date: 10 Apr 1998 00:54:55 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Message-ID: <Er6AAw.B0H@viper.cs.unm.edu> Now that I am back in school and trying to finish my degree in computer science the Powers That Be(TM) have seen fit to ask me to take a computer logic design course. I have to do just enough schematic design that I don't want to do it by hand. Can anyone suggest a program that I might on my mighty mighty NeXT (NS 3.3) to draw these? Best would be something that would save in postscript format. Suggestions? I haven't found anything obvious on the archives. Thanks. -- Colin E. Johnson | colinj@unm.edu | http://www.unm.edu/~colinj/ Parker always felt things in his bones because, he said, it saved space. -Steven Ayelett, _The Crime Studio_
From: rft@ray.cg.spam (Robert F Tobler) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Looking for: schematic drawing program Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:54:48 GMT Organization: Vienna University of Technology, Austria Message-ID: <6glbro$mu4@news.tuwien.ac.at> References: <Er6AAw.B0H@viper.cs.unm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: colinj@viper.cs.unm.edu In <Er6AAw.B0H@viper.cs.unm.edu> Colin Eric Johnson wrote: > Now that I am back in school and trying to finish my degree in > computer science the Powers That Be(TM) have seen fit to ask me to > take a computer logic design course. I have to do just enough > schematic design that I don't want to do it by hand. Can anyone > suggest a program that I might on my mighty mighty NeXT (NS 3.3) to > draw these? Best would be something that would save in postscript > format. > > Suggestions? I haven't found anything obvious on the archives. Have a look at Diagram. Although this is a commercial application, Lighthouse Design has given the keys to the public. For more information see: http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign/ (You might find out that quite a few of these apps are useful!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Robert F. Tobler - tel:+43(1)58801-4575,fax:5874932 Institute of Computer Graphics - mailto: replace domain by Vienna University of Technology - tuwien dot ac dot at
From: Charles Swiger <chuck-nospam@blacksmith.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Newby needs help Date: 10 Apr 1998 20:54:06 GMT Organization: BLaCKSMITH, Inc. Message-ID: <6gm0te$7j4$5@anvil.BLaCKSMITH.com> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> [ ...newsgroups trimmed... ] "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> wrote: > I am having a real hard time getting software for OS 4.2. ppp is not > working, and I guess I need to download ppp from peak first? So I download > ppp and some omni stuff, save it to a fat hard disk, logonto Openstep 4.2, > and try to decompress the software. Doesnt work! [ ... ] You need to extract the files to a BSD filesystem. FAT partitions are limited to 8.3 filenames, remember? -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@BLaCKSMITH.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+----------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Disabling mouse acceleration Date: 11 Apr 1998 00:57:07 GMT Organization: WARPnet, Incorporated Message-ID: <6gmf53$o97$1@news.idiom.com> References: <352B05AA.29FF@habit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: spamsux-tex@habit.com Austin Schutz may or may not have said: -> One thing that I find annoying about using Nextstep/Openstep/Rhapsody -> is that the mouse driver uses 'acceleration' -> whereby the longer you move the mouse the faster it goes. I _much_ -> prefer the behavior of my Sun on which the pointer velocity is -> consistent with mouse velocity. -> Is it possible to turn off acceleration? If so which files would I look -> at tweaking? I am currently using Rhapsody for Intel. -> -> Thanks, -> -> Austin Keep in mind that in Rhapsody for Intel, there are two places where the mouse velocity is set. There's the Preferences app, and there's also Configure.app. Ever since the marketing dweebs at Mouse Systems and the like decided that "DPI" was a stat that they could compete on, they've been making mice that were more and more twitchy. Go to the Configure module that controls your mouse driver, and back that slider off a bit. -jcr -- John C. Randolph (408) 358-6732 NeXT mail preferred. Chief Technology Officer, WARPnet Incorporated. "Have a lot of Fun, make a lot of Money, then sod off to Tahiti!"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software From: brianw@sounds.wa.com (Brian Willoughby) Subject: OPENSTEP/NeXT (Re: C++ on NeXT?) Message-ID: <Er8B58.387.0.scream@sounds.wa.com> Organization: Sound Consulting, Bellevue, WA, USA References: <3514195A.950A6554@cs.utexas.edu> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:03:07 GMT In article <3514195A.950A6554@cs.utexas.edu>, Makoto Sadahiro <sadahiro@cs.utexas.edu> wrote: > Hi, I am wondering if someone can help me to solve my curiousity. I >understand that you use Object-C if you use any of NeXT machine. You >can not use OPENSTEP nor developer version Rhapsody. You can use OPENSTEP on NeXT hardware, up to the latest version 4.2 OPENSTEP apps seem slow on the old 25 MHz 68040, but NEXTSTEP apps run at full speed under OPENSTEP. Any tool that has been replaced, such as ProjectBuilder and InterfaceBuilder, seem to be slow on startup, but run at a reasonable speed after that. Compiling (particularly linking) seems slow under OPENSTEP, but you do gain a lot of features over NEXTSTEP. If you can get two NeXT machines, it would be best to network them and have NEXTSTEP on one, and OPENSTEP on the other. This also makes a nice arrangement for porting NEXTSTEP software to Rhapsody - the OPENSTEP tools can do most of the conversion, and Rhapsody is very similar to OPENSTEP. You can not use Rhapsody on NeXT hardware. -- Brian Willoughby NEXTSTEP, OpenStep, Rhapsody Software Design Sound Consulting Apple Enterprise Alliance Partner NeXTmail welcome Macintosh Associate Apple is the registered trademark of Apple Computer, Inc. and Apple Records
From: nhughes@sunflower.com (Nathan Hughes) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Newby needs help Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:35:20 GMT Organization: is a sign of a sick mind. Message-ID: <3530c496.8026484@198.0.0.100> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On or about 11 Apr 1998 18:33:40 GMT, in comp.sys.mac.advocacy jakeg@rt66.com (Jake Garcia) exclaimed : >NeXT Newbie (macghod@concentric.net) wrote: <s> >Doesn't the standard Windows 95 filesystem limit file/dir names to 14 chars? >I could be wrong... In reality, Win95 sits on a dos partition which is limited to 8.3 filenames. 95 works around this limitation, but Unix does not (generally). Their are utilities for Linux that allow it to see LFNs but it isn't part of the distribution, its probably the same with NeXt. You can work around the problem by zipping your tars and gzips in Win95 with LFNs and unzipping them into NeXt; at least that works in Linux. Nathan A. Hughes MFA Candidate The University Theatre KU http://sunflower.com/~nhughes
From: "Earl Malmrose" <malmrose@nospam.jetcity.com> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Newby needs help Date: 11 Apr 1998 20:07:17 GMT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <01bd6585$58835660$0b0ba8c0@woohoo> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> Jake Garcia <jakeg@rt66.com> wrote in article <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com>... > Doesn't the standard Windows 95 filesystem limit file/dir names to 14 chars? > I could be wrong... You're wrong. Standard Win95 filesystem supports filenames whose complete file and path length is up to around 260 characters.
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: good books for openstep? Date: 11 Apr 1998 22:26:07 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bd6661$b87e7cc0$43f0bfa8@davidsul> What are some good books for openstep and/or the unix underneath? Including stuff like system maintance, setting up ppp, email, modems etc etc.
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: help with OS and configuring Date: 11 Apr 1998 22:29:40 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bd6662$376a8d80$43f0bfa8@davidsul> My pc has a jaton 3d iimage card, I selected generic trident for the monitor, and now Openstep 4.2 only works in black and white, and when it starts up it says "trident pci adapter not found". When the bios first starts up it says trident 3d image 975. Also, does a epson inkjet printer work with openstep?
From: jakeg@rt66.com (Jake Garcia) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Newby needs help Followup-To: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Date: 11 Apr 1998 18:33:40 GMT Organization: Rt66.COM, New Mexico's #1 ISP Distribution: inet Message-ID: <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> NeXT Newbie (macghod@concentric.net) wrote: : localhost:10# mv ne* next-ppp : localhost:11# tar -xvf next-ppp : ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long : tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/: File name too long : ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long : tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/: File name too long : ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long Doesn't the standard Windows 95 filesystem limit file/dir names to 14 chars? I could be wrong... -- Jake Garcia <jake@midnight.rt66.com> Please finger for more info...
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <25462891752418@digifix.com> Date: 12 Apr 1998 03:50:19 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5697892353623@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: cmsg cancel <8c35.13e64.32@tecra> Control: cancel <8c35.13e64.32@tecra> Date: 09 Apr 1998 05:39:22 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.8c35.13e64.32@tecra> Sender: Good Info Services <goodinfoservices@yahoo.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Newby needs help Date: 12 Apr 1998 05:34:10 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bd65d4$674529e0$17f0bfa8@davidsul> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> Thanks, I have solved this problem. I merely needed to cp the files from the partition they were on (fat, from the dos side) to the os partition. Now I am working on getting ppp up and then internet apps so I can stop having to use windows 95 to get on the internet ;-) PS does firstclass have a unix client? Also what is a good book on openstep (or the unix underneath openstep) and administering openstep? Such things as ppp, sendmail, etc? Jake Garcia <jakeg@rt66.com> wrote in article <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com>... > NeXT Newbie (macghod@concentric.net) wrote: > > : localhost:10# mv ne* next-ppp > : localhost:11# tar -xvf next-ppp > : ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long > : tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/: File name too long > : ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long > : tar: can't create ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg/PPP-2.2.pkg/: File name too long > : ./PPP-2.2-0.4.6-pkg: File name too long > > Doesn't the standard Windows 95 filesystem limit file/dir names to 14 chars? > I could be wrong... > > -- > Jake Garcia <jake@midnight.rt66.com> > > Please finger for more info... >
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.internet.net-happenings,comp.sys.net-computer.misc,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,de.comm.infosystems.www.authoring,de.comm.infosystems.www.pages,de.comm.infosystems.www.servers,de.comm.internet.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <353c824c.356891@news.ij.net> Control: cancel <353c824c.356891@news.ij.net> Date: 11 Apr 1998 15:24:33 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.353c824c.356891@news.ij.net> Sender: info@byte-buy.com (Webmaster) Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: michal@gortel.phys.ualberta.ca (Michal Jaegermann) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Newby needs help Followup-To: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Date: 12 Apr 1998 16:16:02 GMT Organization: Disorganized Bits Message-ID: <6gqpc2$tb0$1@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> <3530c496.8026484@198.0.0.100> Nathan Hughes (nhughes@sunflower.com) wrote: : : In reality, Win95 sits on a dos partition which is limited to 8.3 : filenames. 95 works around this limitation, but Unix does not : (generally). 'mtools', which work across most (all?) Unix platforms support vfat extensions for quite a long time. I did have a need to hack the latest versions of 'mtools' on NeXT but I have a little doubt that I would have them working in no time at all. : Their are utilities for Linux that allow it to see LFNs : but it isn't part of the distribution, This is also false for years now. It is true that you do not have to include vfat support in your kernel (either directly or as a module) but this is a part of a standard kernel for a long time. Also 'mtools' are normally included in a distribution. "Official" Linux kernel does not have support for FAT32 format and Jolliet extensions but these are available as outside patches and are present in development kernels and will be included in the next 2.2.x kernels. --mj
From: schnews@crow.uoregon.edu (Sean Harding) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: good books for openstep? Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 12:46:25 -0700 Organization: University of Oregon Distribution: inet Message-ID: <schnews-1204981246250001@owl.uoregon.edu> References: <01bd6661$b87e7cc0$43f0bfa8@davidsul> In article <01bd6661$b87e7cc0$43f0bfa8@davidsul>, "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> wrote: > What are some good books for openstep and/or the unix underneath? > Including stuff like system maintance, setting up ppp, email, modems etc > etc. Why on earth must you post this to each and *every* NeXT group? Most of us read all of them...Keep it to one, please. Sean -- Sean Harding sharding@oregon.uoregon.edu|"Life is a sleazy stranger http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~sharding/ |& this is his favorite bar." NeXTMail OK! | --Ani DiFranco
From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: good books for openstep? Date: 12 Apr 1998 20:22:06 GMT Organization: none Distribution: inet Message-ID: <6gr7pe$ar9$8@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> References: <01bd6661$b87e7cc0$43f0bfa8@davidsul> <schnews-1204981246250001@owl.uoregon.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: schnews@crow.uoregon.edu In <schnews-1204981246250001@owl.uoregon.edu> Sean Harding wrote: > In article <01bd6661$b87e7cc0$43f0bfa8@davidsul>, "NeXT Newbie" > <macghod@concentric.net> wrote: > > > What are some good books for openstep and/or the unix underneath? > > Including stuff like system maintance, setting up ppp, email, modems etc > > etc. > > Why on earth must you post this to each and *every* NeXT group? Most of us > read all of them...Keep it to one, please. I don't know... I've asked him privately repeatedly, sent several pointers to the posting guidelines, and he still ignores them. Oh well.... RN's Author filter works well enough.... Sorry not to be able to help him, most of his questions were ones I could have dealt with.... TjL -- [Yes that is a valid mail address, until it gets spammed]
From: "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT History Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:06:59 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6groed$q2q$1@news.missouri.edu> Dear NeXT Expert, I'm interested in NeXT history/timeline. Anyone knows the links to the history/Timeline of NeXT Machine for NeXT, Inc. please let me know. I will appreciate. Thank you very much in advanced. Your Sincerely, Sarawoot
From: smarqz@DOGunm.edu (Steve M) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT History Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:37:12 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <35324e08.21211540@news.mindspring.com> References: <6groed$q2q$1@news.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:06:59 -0500, "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> wrote: Dear NeXT Expert, I'm interested in NeXT history/timeline. Anyone knows the links to the history/Timeline of NeXT Machine for NeXT, Inc. please let me know. I will appreciate. Thank you very much in advanced. Your Sincerely, Sarawoot Lots of info on the archives. Go to Peak and take a look at the newsletters, they'll give you 'live' info at the time it was news. Stepwise archives for more indepth discussions, and the newsgroups archives for other issues. Be like an ivestigative reporter and poke around. Too bad nobody has put it all in one place. Search DejaNews....here's a start: http://x2.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=208270180&search=thread&threaded=1&NTL=1&CONTEXT=891787576.197525807&hitnum=2 Be sure to view the thread to see the start of the discussion. direct any replies to smarqz at unm dot edu or remove the animal from reply address.
From: raptor@pswtech.com (raptor) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: The NeXT-FAQ (Frequently asked questions) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:47:33 +0100 Organization: PSW Message-ID: <MPG.f9c7c32bcba8e37989681@news> References: <6gmch1$kkk$1@union.informatik.uni-muenchen.de> [This followup was posted to comp.sys.next.misc and a copy was sent to the cited author.] In article <6gmch1$kkk$1@union.informatik.uni-muenchen.de>, scholzb@pst.informatik.uni-muenchen.de says... > Posted-By: auto-faq 2.4 > Archive-name: NeXT-FAQ > Last-modified: Saturday, 11. March 1998 > Posting-Frequency: monthly > > > > The NEXTSTEP/OpenStep FAQ > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > THE NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP FAQ > > OVERVIEW > > * 1 Introduction > * 2 General information > * 3 What is ... > * 4 Miscellaneous information > * 5 Black (NeXT) hardware > * 6 White (Intel) hardware > * 7 Storage > * 8 Printing > * 9 Obsolete but still interesting? please please fix the part in 4.34 about openstep an YP, it should say YPAgent instad of NISAgent, typing in NISAgent under 4.2 will cause a not boot condition, thanks!
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From: kbenrmcaNICKI@BORED.COM Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: Bored? Looking to do something really different? Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:10:07 GMT Organization: Road Runner Message-ID: <6gv95f$hqp$1021@proxye2.nycap.rr.com> **************************************************************** * This Article was Posted By an unregistered version of: * * Newsgroup AutoPoster 95 * * Send email address for info! Fax: +46-31-470588 * **************************************************************** Why don't you come see me at WWW.HOTXXXBABES.COM
From: karsten.d.wolf@erziehung.uni-giessen.de (karsten) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Rhapsody DR1]: What kind of CD-ROM formats does Rhapsody DR1 support? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:00:31 +0200 Organization: Justus-Liebig Universitaet Giessen Message-ID: <karsten.d.wolf-1404981400310001@www.erziehung.uni-giessen.de> Can I burn a CD-ROM with Adaptec Toast on a Mac that is readable by Rhapsody DR1? What format do I have to use? -karsten
Message-ID: <3533A46D.87CC16C4@csun.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:01:32 -0700 From: Gareth Greenaway <gjg22542@csun.edu> Organization: CSU Northridge - Computing Services MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Monitor Cable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know where to find the specs to make a monitor cable for a NEXT black cube?
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6gu2nl$bo0$8975@news.flashnet.it> Control: cancel <6gu2nl$bo0$8975@news.flashnet.it> Date: 13 Apr 1998 22:31:09 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6gu2nl$bo0$8975@news.flashnet.it> Sender: <ItalianBoy@Italy.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6gu2nl$bo0$8974@news.flashnet.it> Control: cancel <6gu2nl$bo0$8974@news.flashnet.it> Date: 13 Apr 1998 22:31:46 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6gu2nl$bo0$8974@news.flashnet.it> Sender: <ItalianBoy@Italy.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <892522731.303415@michelob> Control: cancel <892522731.303415@michelob> Date: 14 Apr 1998 03:05:35 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.892522731.303415@michelob> Sender: "VICTOR KOLLAR" <intercontact@sprint.ca> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: franic@usfca.edu (Ernie Franic) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NEXTSTEP confuses Virtual PC? Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:53:43 -0700 Organization: University of San Francisco Message-ID: <franic-1404982153430001@138.202.211.192> On Virtual PC 1.0 I get this message when starting up with the NeXTSTEP 3.2 boot disk: NeXT Mach 3.2: Mon Oct 18 22:08:07 PDT 1993; root(rcbuilder):mk-149.30.15.obj~2/RC_i386/RELEASE_I386 physical memory = 11.00 megabytes using 28 buffers containing 0.21 megabytes of memory available memory = 8.31 megabytes. vm_page_free_count = 428 Kernel Trap unexpected kernel trap a eip 16f155 Failed instruction exception (2,a,0) Waiting for remote debugger connection. (Type 'c' to continue or 'r' to reboot) What's up??? -- Remove "NOSPAM' from my E-mail address to successfully reply.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <6gv95f$hqp$1021@proxye2.nycap.rr.com> Control: cancel <6gv95f$hqp$1021@proxye2.nycap.rr.com> Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:20:18 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6gv95f$hqp$1021@proxye2.nycap.rr.com> Sender: kbenrmcaNICKI@BORED.COM Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Sebastien Mallet <mallet@nortel.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: Monitor Cable Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:27:45 +0200 Organization: Nortel Message-ID: <35348BA1.179C8723@nortel.ca> References: <3533A46D.87CC16C4@csun.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are the specifications provided by next for colorstation monitor cable (it's the same for the cube): It's a 13W3 connector with : PIN Signal 1 +12V 2 PWR switch 3 MON CLK 4 MON DATA OUT 5 MON DATA IN 6 -12V 7 GND 8 GND 9 GND 10 GND A1 Inner RED VIDEO A1 Outer RED VIDEO GND A2 Inner GREEN VIDEO A2 Outer GREEN VIDEO GND A3 Inner BLUE VIDEO A3 Outer BLUE VIDEO GND IF you need B&W pinouts just e-mail me. Hope this helps Sebastien
From: CatherineW@email.unc.edu Subject: You Just Can't Lose Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: UNC Message-ID: <35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Date: 15 Apr 98 04:42:56 GMT So, do you want to make money? If you have ONLY US$6 or a bit more(6 stamps), you can do it!!! ******************************************************* PLEASE READ ON ABOUT HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL ******************************************************* 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL?? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any money but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. Would the Post Office be ok with this....I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See Title 18,h sections1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. Is this moral? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of money ... a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket!!! ============ HOW IT WORKS ============ Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper: PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST. $1 US DOLLAR PROCESSING FEE IN ENCLOSED. (THIS IS KEY AS THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT LEGAL SINCE YOU ARE PAYING FOR AND LATER OFFERING A SERVICE). Now get 6 $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent theft/robbery (Add one chemical paper for example;this will turn your bill invisible and the letter still light). Then, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase and a U.S. $1.00 bill. #1 Ronald Stevens 20 Lordly court Kings Park NY 11754 USA #2 J. Turley P.O. Box 50604 Knoxville, TN 37950-0604 USA #3 K. Agler 109 Fraternity Ct. Chapel Hill, NC 27516 USA #4 R Sauter 3500 Crescent Ct Flower Mound, TX 75028 USA #5 Catherine Watkins P.O. Box 67 Chapel Hill, NC 27514-0067 USA #6 Ryan 1201 Holleybank Dr. Matthews, NC 28105 USA STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. (If you want to remain anonymous, put a nickname, but the address MUST be correct. It, of course, MUST contain your country, state/district/area, zip code, etc!!! You wouldn't want your money to fly away, would you?!?!). STEP 3: Now post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. Remember, 200 postings is just a guideline. The more you post, the more money you make! NOTE: IN MANY NEWSGROUPS THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DELETE THIS KIND OF MESSAGES I RECOMEND YOU TO POST 1 OR EVEN 2 TIMES A WEEK TO 300 NEWSGROUPS SO OTHER PEOPLE CAN SEE YOUR MESSAGES.THIS IS A WAY TO INCREASE THE POSSIBILITIES FOR YOU TO GET MORE MONEY!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The TOP 200 newsgroups can be found at ---> www.op.net/usenet-stats.html *** BOTS *** Bots are small computer programs on a usenet server. 1) Bots look for certain characters in the "Subject:" field of your newsgroup posting. 2) Bots also look for "multiple postings". 3) If a Bot discovers any of the above, it will delete your posting. 4) Then send you a nasty e-mail. ***OUTSMART THE BOTS*** 1) You will make a lot MORE money if you outsmart the BOTS. 2) Post your message only ONCE. 3) Do NOT use characters such as (! $ % + # & * @ ?) in the "Subject" field. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU > WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** > That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within > day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large > amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can > invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. > **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================= Now the WHY part: ================= Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! So lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person. Here is what you will make: at #6 $15.00 at #5 $225.00 at #4 $3,375.00 at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00#1 $11,390,625.00 When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so... People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. ** By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the money to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and she only made practically nothing, and that's after seven or eight weeks! Then she sent the 6 $1.00 bills, people added her to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks she had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future dollars. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of everyone that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again... ________________________________________________________________________ --
From: Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NEXTSTEP confuses Virtual PC? Date: 15 Apr 1998 23:46:37 GMT Organization: University of Oregon, Eugene Message-ID: <6h3gst$dns$2@pith.uoregon.edu> References: <franic-1404982153430001@138.202.211.192> Ernie Franic <franic@usfca.edu> wrote: > NeXT Mach 3.2: Mon Oct 18 22:08:07 PDT 1993; > root(rcbuilder):mk-149.30.15.obj~2/RC_i386/RELEASE_I386 > physical memory = 11.00 megabytes > using 28 buffers containing 0.21 megabytes of memory > available memory = 8.31 megabytes. vm_page_free_count = 428 It may not be worth your trouble. Looks like you don't have much ram (maybe it's just not allocated to VPC). The other thing is you will need a fast power mac to make it even half way useable. I put it on a 120 and a 150 with 96 megs and I would call it exruciating. wes -- ~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~NeXTMail OK!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vax a vicious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its *DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users.
From: 00093182@bigred.unl.edu (Josh Hesse) Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: 15 Apr 1998 23:40:45 GMT Organization: CANeM///Cabal Academic Network Monitoring///[tinc] Message-ID: <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <6ghk5c$k7e$3@nntp5.u.washington.edu> <6gihsl$2ks@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <352CE00D.19DFC308@stevens-tech.edu> <6gj3vg$2c3$1@news.skylink.net> <slrn6itb9t.7ra.bboone@razoo.dyn.ml.org> <6gruq5$7if@world6.bellatlantic.net> <6gtpq0$h5n7@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <y7rg1jg7xg4.fsf@getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch) wrote: : David Wragg wrote: : > : > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) : > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it will assume : > you are on an upper case only terminal and the terminal driver will : > translate everything to upper case. : > : > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it : > worked. : : I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. : This doesn't seem to work on Nextstep/Mach :-( -Josh -- Do not send mail to this account. Really. "Talk about silly conspiracy theories..." -Wayne Schlitt in unl.general This post (C)1998, Josh Hesse. Quoted material is (C) of the person quoted. |ess|erb|unl|u| (Oo) MYTHOS How's my posting? 1-800-DEV-NULL email: jh|e@h|ie.|.ed| /||\ NEW AEON .Sigfile freshness date: 4/2/98 Free Karate practices for UNL students & staff--- Just ask me.
From: CatherineW@icarus.com Subject: You Just Can't Lose Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: ME Message-ID: <3534c13f.0@193.15.242.210> Date: 15 Apr 98 14:16:31 GMT So, do you want to make money? If you have ONLY US$6 or a bit more(6 stamps), you can do it!!! ******************************************************* PLEASE READ ON ABOUT HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL ******************************************************* 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL?? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any money but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. Would the Post Office be ok with this....I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See Title 18,h sections1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. Is this moral? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of money ... a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket!!! ============ HOW IT WORKS ============ Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: STEP 1: Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper: PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST. $1 US DOLLAR PROCESSING FEE IN ENCLOSED. (THIS IS KEY AS THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT LEGAL SINCE YOU ARE PAYING FOR AND LATER OFFERING A SERVICE). Now get 6 $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent theft/robbery (Add colored paper for example;this will turn your bill invisible and the letter still light). Then, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase and a U.S. $1.00 bill. #1 Ronald Stevens 20 Lordly court Kings Park NY 11754 USA #2 J. Turley P.O. Box 50604 Knoxville, TN 37950-0604 USA #3 K. Agler 109 Fraternity Ct. Chapel Hill, NC 27516 USA #4 R Sauter 3500 Crescent Ct Flower Mound, TX 75028 USA #5 Catherine Watkins P.O. Box 67 Chapel Hill, NC 27514-0067 USA #6 Ryan 1201 Holleybank Dr. Matthews, NC 28105 USA STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc...) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. (If you want to remain anonymous, put a nickname, but the address MUST be correct. It, of course, MUST contain your country, state/district/area, zip code, etc!!! You wouldn't want your money to fly away, would you?!?!). STEP 3: Now post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. Remember, 200 postings is just a guideline. The more you post, the more money you make! NOTE: IN MANY NEWSGROUPS THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DELETE THIS KIND OF MESSAGES I RECOMEND YOU TO POST 1 OR EVEN 2 TIMES A WEEK TO 300 NEWSGROUPS SO OTHER PEOPLE CAN SEE YOUR MESSAGES.THIS IS A WAY TO INCREASE THE POSSIBILITIES FOR YOU TO GET MORE MONEY!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The TOP 200 newsgroups can be found at ---> www.op.net/usenet-stats.html *** BOTS *** Bots are small computer programs on a usenet server. 1) Bots look for certain characters in the "Subject:" field of your newsgroup posting. 2) Bots also look for "multiple postings". 3) If a Bot discovers any of the above, it will delete your posting. 4) Then send you a nasty e-mail. ***OUTSMART THE BOTS*** 1) You will make a lot MORE money if you outsmart the BOTS. 2) Post your message only ONCE. 3) Do NOT use characters such as (! $ % + # & * @ ?) in the "Subject" field. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU > WILL MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** > That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within > day's! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large > amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can > invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. > **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================= Now the WHY part: ================= Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With a original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average is probable 20 to 30! So lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person. Here is what you will make: at #6 $15.00 at #5 $225.00 at #4 $3,375.00 at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00#1 $11,390,625.00 When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so... People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. ** By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the money to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and she only made practically nothing, and that's after seven or eight weeks! Then she sent the 6 $1.00 bills, people added her to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks she had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time!!! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future dollars. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW! Also, try to keep a list of everyone that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to make the money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again... ________________________________________________________________________ --
From: Michael Davis <mdavis@DELmultipath.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:37:58 -0400 Organization: Multipath Business Systems Message-ID: <6h58km$h27$1@mpsrv3.multipath.com> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <y7rg1jg7xg4.fsf@getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> In article <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu>, Josh Hesse <00093182@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: >Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch) wrote: >: David Wragg wrote: >: > >: > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) >: > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it will assume >: > you are on an upper case only terminal and the terminal driver will >: > translate everything to upper case. >: > >: > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it >: > worked. >: >: I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. >: > >This doesn't seem to work on Nextstep/Mach :-( It doesn't work on Solaris 2.5. -- // Michael Davis, Programmer/Analyst I don't speak for Multipath. // // mdavis@DELmultipath.com Nor do I speak against them. // // Toronto The 'DEL' in my address is an anti-spam device. //
From: "HECTOR" <Hector@cableinet.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pc.hardware Subject: TRY THIS AND BE AMAZED!!!!!!!!1 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:59:16 +0100 Message-ID: <35362f99.0@ispc-news.cableinet.net> Organization: "Cable Internet (post doesn't reflect views of Cable Internet)" It is really possible! People claim to make almost $50K in just 4 weeks! It may be hard to believe, but read on . . . (For $6 and 6 stamps, it might be worth a try) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00! So I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam!" But like most of us, I was curious. Like most of us, I kept reading. Anyway, it said that if you send $1.00 to each of the 6 names and addresses stated in the article, you could make thousands in a very short period of time. You then place your own name and address at the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article to at least 200 newsgroups. (There are about 22,000.) or e-mail them to friends, or e-mailing lists... No catch, that was it. Even though the investment was a measly $6, I had three questions that needed to be answered before I could get involved in this sort of thing. 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any money but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. Would the Post Office be ok with this...? I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See Title 18,h sections 1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. Is this moral? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of money ... a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket! So, having these questions answered, I invested EXACTLY $7.92 ... six $1.00 bills and six 32 cent postage stamps ... and boy am I glad I did! Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give it another thought. But the money just continued coming in. In my first week, I made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I had a mad total of $1,000.00! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it was still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in..... It's certainly worth $6.00 and 6 stamps! So now I'm reposting this so I can make even more money! The *ONLY* thing stopping *ANYONE* from enriching their own bank account is pure laziness! It took me all of 5 MINUTES to print this out, follow the directions, and begin posting to newsgroups. It took me a mere 45 minutes to post to over 200 newsgroups. And for this GRAND TOTAL investment of $ 7.92 (US) and under ONE HOUR of my time, I have reaped an incredible amount of money -- like nothing I've ever even heard of anywhere before! 'Nuff said! Let me tell you how this works, and most importantly, why it works. Also, make sure you print a copy of this article now, so you can get the information off of it when you need it. The process is very simple and consists of THREE easy steps. ============ HOW IT WORKS ============ STEP 1: ------ Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper: PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST. $1 US DOLLAR PROCESSING FEE IS ENCLOSED. Your name and address. (THIS IS KEY AS THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT LEGAL SINCE YOU ARE PAYING FOR AND LATER OFFERING A SERVICE). Now get 6 $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent theft/robbery. Then, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase and an U.S. $1.00 bill. Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: 1 - K. Uppermann 2330 Vehicle Dr. #148 Rancho Cordova, CA 95670 2- Occupant P.O. Box 5258 Quincy, Il. 62305-5258 3- M Afandi M Saman No. 9, Lorong 8, Taman Mewah 08000 Sungai Petani Kedah, Malaysia 4- J Wilhelm 3507 Del Lago Cir #305 Tampa FL 33614 5- Y.H. Sohn C.P.O. Box 7469, Chung-Ku, Seoul, Korea 100-674 6- Hector 108 Poolstock Wigan Lancs United Kingdom WN3 5EW STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. (If you want to remain anonymous put a nickname, but the address MUST be correct. It, of course, MUST contain your country, state/district/area, zip code, etc! You wouldn't want your money to fly away, would you?). STEP 3: Now post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. Remember that 200 postings are just a guideline. The more you post, the more money you make! Don't know HOW to post in the news groups? Well do exactly the following: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS FAST WITH YOUR WEB BROWSER: The fastest way to post a newsletter: Highlight and COPY (Ctrl-C) the text of this posted message and PASTE (Ctrl-V) it into a plain text editor (as Wordpad) and save it. After you have made the necessary changes that are stated above, simply COPY (Ctrl-C) and PASTE (Ctrl-V) the text into the message composition window, after selecting a newsgroup, and post it! (Or you can attach the file, without writing anything to the message window.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you have Netscape Navigator 3.0 do the following: 1. Click on any newsgroup like normal, then click on 'TO NEWS'. This will bring up a box to type a message in. 2. Leave the newsgroup box like it is, change the subject box to something flashy, something to catch the eye, as "$$$ NEED CASH $$$? READ HERE! $! $!$" Or "$$$! MAKE FAST CASH, YOU CAN'T LOSE! $$$". Or you can use my subject title. 3. Now click on 'ATTACHMENTS'. Then click on 'ATTACH FILE'. Find your file on your Hard Disk (the one you saved from the text editor). Once you find it, click on it and then click 'OPEN' and 'OK'. You should now see your file name in the attachments box. 4. Now click on 'SEND'/'POST'. You see? Now you just have 199 to go! (Don't worry, it's easy and quick once you get used to it.) NOTE: All the versions of Netscape Navigator's are similar to each other, so you'll have no problem to do this if you don't have Netscape Navigator 3.0. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ! QUICK TIP! (For Netscape Navigator 3.x and above) You can post this message to many newsgroups at a time, by simply selecting a newsgroup near the top of the screen, hold down the SHIFT, and then select a newsgroup near the bottom of the screen. All of the newsgroups in/between will be selected. After that, you follow/do the basic steps, stated below at this letter, except of step #1. You can go to the page stated below in this letter and click on a newsgroup to open up the newsgroups window. Once you've done this, in the same window go to 'OPTIONS', and then mark 'SHOW ALL NEWSGROUPS' and 'SHOW ALL MESSAGES'. Now you can see all the newsgroups and you can apply easier the above tip. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you have MS Internet Explorer do the following: 1. Go to the newsgroups and press 'POST AN ARTICLE'. To the new window type your headline in the subject area and then click in the large window below. There either PASTE your letter (which it's been copied from the text editor), or attach the file which contains it. 2. Then click on 'SEND' or 'OK'. NOTE: All versions of MS Internet Explorer are similar to each other, so you won't have any problem doing this. GENERAL NOTES ON POSTING: A nice page where you'll find all the newsgroups if you want help is http://www.liszt.com/ (When you go to the home page, click on the link 'Newsgroup Directory'). But I don't think you'll have any problem posting because it's very easy once you've found the newsgroups. All these web browsers are similar. It doesn't matter which one you have. (But it makes it very easy if you have Netscape Navigator 3.0 or later. You may download it from the Internet if you don't have it.) You just have to remember the basic steps, stated below. BASIC STEPS FOR POSTING: 1. Find a newsgroup and you click on it. 2. You click on 'POST AN/NEW ARTICLE' or 'TO NEWS' or anything else similar to these. 3. You type your flashy headline in the subject box. 4. Now, either you attach the file containing your amended letter, or you PASTE the letter. (You have to COPY it from the text editor, of course, from before.) 5. Finally, you click on 'SEND' or 'POST' or 'OK', whatever is there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT. ** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANOTHER EXCELLENT PROGRAM: "AutoPoster" http://www.spck.se/bulk/ MULTIPLE POSTING ON HUNDEREDS OF NEWSGROUPS AT ONCE . The worlds most effective AutoPoster to Internets newsgroups! A high speed Newsgroup Auto Poster/Newsreader for Windows 95 Autopost articles to more than 27,000 newsgroups Super fast - up to 12,000 posting per hour on a single PC Easy to run Built in Special Functions such as: Scramble Random Fake Sender Rotate Unlimited Postings Group Postings Force Hits ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================= Now the WHY part: ================= Out of 200 postings; say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average are probable 20 to 30! So lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person. Here is what you will make: at #6 $15.00 at #5 $225.00 at #4 $3,375.00 at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00 at #1 $11,390,625.00 When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now! So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works? I think so... People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the money to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and he only made about $150.00, and that's after seven or eight weeks! Then he sent the 6 $1.00 bills, people added him to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future dollars. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyone that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember that HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to make the money! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again... ===================================================================== LEGAL? ? ? (Comments from Bob Novak who started this new version.) "People have asked me if this is really legal. Well, it is! You are using the Internet to advertise you business. What is that business? You are assembling a mailing list of people who are interested in home based computer and online business and methods of generating income at home. Remember that people send you a small fee to be added to your mailing list. It is legal. What will you do with your list of thousands of names? Compile all of them into a database and sell them as "Mailing Lists" on the internet in a similar manner, if you wish, and make more money. How do you think you get all the junk mail that you do? Credit card companies, mail order, Utilities, anyone you deal with through the mail can sell your name and address on a mailing list, unless you ask them not to, in addition to there regular business, So, why not do the same with the list you collect. You can find more info about "Mailing Lists" on the internet using any search engine..." So, build your mailing list, keep good accounts, declare the income and pay your taxes. By doing this you prove your business intentions. Keep an eye on the newsgroups and when the cash has stopped coming (that means your name is no longer on the list), you just take the latest posting at the newsgroups, send another $6.00 to the names stated on the list, make your corrections (put your name at #6) and start posting again. ===================================================================== NOTES: *1. In some countries, the export of the country's exchange is illegal. But you can get the license to do this from the post office, explaining the above statements (that you have an online business, etc. You may have to pay an extra tax, but that's OK, the amount of the incoming money is HUGE! And as I said, a few countries have that restriction. *2. You may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future dollars. (Or Database or Spreadsheet software.) *3. If you're really not sure or still think this can't be for real, please print a copy of this article and pass it along to someone who really needs the money, and see what happens. *4. You will start getting responses within 1-2 weeks, it depends.
From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Followup-To: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Date: 16 Apr 1998 16:04:49 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Message-ID: <6h5a71$cn25@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <6ghk5c$k7e$3@nntp5.u.washington.edu> <6gihsl$2ks@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <352CE00D.19DFC308@stevens-tech.edu> <6gj3vg$2c3$1@news.skylink.net> <slrn6itb9t.7ra.bboone@razoo.dyn.ml.org> <6gruq5$7if@world6.bellatlantic.net> <6gtpq0$h5n7@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <y7rg1jg7xg4.fsf@getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> Josh Hesse (00093182@bigred.unl.edu) wrote: : Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch) wrote: : : David Wragg wrote: : : > : : > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) : : > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it will assume : : > you are on an upper case only terminal and the terminal driver will : : > translate everything to upper case. : : > : : > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it : : > worked. : : : : I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. : This doesn't seem to work on Nextstep/Mach :-( Nor on SunOS 4.1.4 or 5.5.1. -- Tom Harrington --------- tph@rmii.com -------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "How do soldiers killing each other solve the world's problems?" -Calvin and Hobbes Cookie's Revenge: ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/tph/cookie/cookies-revenge.sit.hqx
From: ttnnbfla@news.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Do you want ALL 30,000 + Newsgroups ? Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:46:39 GMT Organization: Strictly Uniform Message-ID: <6h5jmf$gm3$1724@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> If your ISP censors your newsgroup access (eg you are not getting at least 30,000 newsgroups) visit http://207.120.227.53/usenet or our fast mirror at http://199.93.4.135/homegarden/web/usenet/index.htm
From: ttnnbfla@news.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Uncensored News Group Access Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:46:41 GMT Organization: Strictly Uniform Message-ID: <6h5jmh$gm3$1725@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> If your ISP censors your newsgroup access (eg you are not getting at least 30,000 newsgroups) visit http://207.120.227.53/usenet or our fast mirror at http://199.93.4.135/homegarden/web/usenet/index.htm
From: ttnnbfla@news.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: 30,000 Newsgroups including 'banned' ones available Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:46:37 GMT Organization: Strictly Uniform Message-ID: <6h5jmd$gm3$1723@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> If your ISP censors your newsgroup access (eg you are not getting at least 30,000 newsgroups) visit http://207.120.227.53/usenet or our fast mirror at http://199.93.4.135/homegarden/web/usenet/index.htm
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Good video card for OPENSTEP Date: 16 Apr 1998 20:58:20 GMT Message-ID: <01bd69b4$a3ed2760$3ff0bfa8@davidsul> My pc has a video card with 4 megs of video memory and a trident 975 video card. Trident generic video card doesnt work with it. What are good video cards that work with openstep? If anyone wants to trade a 4 meg card that works with opentsep for a jaton 3d blaze card with tv output I am game :) Cost of video cards is also a issue. The matrox I hear is a good card but costs like $150, some lesser priced 4 meg cards would be nice as well, say under $100? And working well with opengl would be nice for games as well :)
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Control: cancel <35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Date: 15 Apr 1998 21:40:04 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Sender: CatherineW@email.unc.edu Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:16:25 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <6h5sf9$neu$4@news.xmission.com> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <6ghk5c$k7e$3@nntp5.u.washington.edu> <6gihsl$2ks@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <352CE00D.19DFC308@stevens-tech.edu> <6gj3vg$2c3$1@news.skylink.net> <slrn6itb9t.7ra.bboone@razoo.dyn.ml.org> <6gruq5$7if@world6.bellatlantic.net> <6gtpq0$h5n7@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <y7rg1jg7xg4.fsf@getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> 00093182@bigred.unl.edu (Josh Hesse) wrote: > Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch) wrote: > : David Wragg wrote: > : > > : > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) > : > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it will assume > : > you are on an upper case only terminal and the terminal driver will > : > translate everything to upper case. > : > > : > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it > : > worked. > : > : I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. > : > > This doesn't seem to work on Nextstep/Mach :-( I read this and thought "gee, wait--I've seen this work on a NeXT before" but I couldn't remember when, where, or the conditions. A scan of the man pages turned up some clues. It can be done on a NeXT--sort of. Apparently, "getty" supports it (read the man page). Since most all the terminals on a NeXT box are typically pseudo-ttys, though, you don't go through getty. Only a hardware terminal attached to a serial port will use getty. See the entry on /etc/ttys for details. And, while you're at it, you may want to see if the "secure" word is turned on for any ttys that shouldn't have it...NeXT boxes ship with it turned on in a few places, though they did at least have the presence of mind to leave it off on network ptys. So, according to the man pages, the only place you'd see this feature work on a NeXT box (without hacquery) is for a terminal physically attached to the box via one of the serial ports. (Yes, this junk really is in there. Check out these pages, NeXT-heads: man 5 ttys man 8 getty and any other related pages that pique your interest along the way...) -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Newby needs help Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:50:35 +0100 Organization: Total Connectivity Providers - Maximising the Internet Message-ID: <35366F1B.98331849@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> <01bd6585$58835660$0b0ba8c0@woohoo> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earl Malmrose wrote: > > Jake Garcia <jakeg@rt66.com> wrote in article > <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com>... > > Doesn't the standard Windows 95 filesystem limit file/dir names to 14 > chars? > > I could be wrong... > > You're wrong. Standard Win95 filesystem supports filenames whose complete > file and path length is up to around 260 characters. Yes, but, doesn't Openstep only see the MSDOS 8.3 name. Isn't ppp on the Openstep CD-ROM. If you download to Windows 95, move/copy the files to openstep ( e.g. /tmp for the rest of this paragraph). Move/Rename the files in the /tmp so that they have the extension that they would have had and has been mangled by Window 95 is you wish to decompress in Workspace. Use gnutar instead of tar; move of these files will be gzip-ed tar archives and will have an extension such as .tar.gz, .gtz, etc., Anyway, use: gnutar xvzf <archivename> the 'z' will gunzip the tar, before extracting.
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: help with OS and configuring Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:01:50 +0100 Organization: Total Connectivity Providers - Maximising the Internet Message-ID: <353671BE.1464FBC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <01bd6662$376a8d80$43f0bfa8@davidsul> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is something call 'dots' that will print (PS) on inkjets for Nextstep/Openstep. I am fairly sure Openstep can not use your 3D graphics card (not the 3d bit). If your video card is PCI, Configure.app will find it if it has a .config bundle/driver that supports it. If you start Openstep in verbose mode (-v to the boot: prompt) or in /usr/adm/messages you will see a list of PCI devices Openstep was able to find. If you do not know what chipset your video card uses, you/we may be able to work it out from the PCI vendor/device id, in the above list. NeXT Newbie wrote: > > My pc has a jaton 3d iimage card, I selected generic trident for the > monitor, and now Openstep 4.2 only works in black and white, and when it > starts up it says "trident pci adapter not found". When the bios first > starts up it says trident 3d image 975. > > Also, does a epson inkjet printer work with openstep?
From: "Ken Schuller" <schullersite@NOworldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Good video card for OPENSTEP Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:36:41 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <6h61b5$318@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> References: <01bd69b4$a3ed2760$3ff0bfa8@davidsul> You can get the Mystique 220 w/4MB at your friendly neighborhood Best Buy for $119. You can get it for less than that if you don't buy the "shrinkwrap" version. -- Ken Schuller from on the road somewhere in Texas... *remove the obvious spam foil to reply via e-mail* NeXT Newbie wrote in message <01bd69b4$a3ed2760$3ff0bfa8@davidsul>... >My pc has a video card with 4 megs of video memory and a trident 975 video >card. Trident generic video card doesnt work with it. What are good video >cards that work with openstep? If anyone wants to trade a 4 meg card that >works with opentsep for a jaton 3d blaze card with tv output I am game :) > >Cost of video cards is also a issue. The matrox I hear is a good card but >costs like $150, some lesser priced 4 meg cards would be nice as well, say >under $100? And working well with opengl would be nice for games as well >:) >
From: sal@panix3.panix.com (Salvatore Denaro) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: help with OS and configuring Date: 17 Apr 1998 03:31:29 GMT Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Distribution: inet Message-ID: <slrn6jdj8h.3u2.sal@panix3.panix.com> References: <01bd6662$376a8d80$43f0bfa8@davidsul> <353671BE.1464FBC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk> On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:01:50 +0100, Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: >There is something call 'dots' that will print (PS) on inkjets for >Nextstep/Openstep. You can also use GhostScript to print .ps files. -- sal@panix.com Salvatore Denaro "The reality of the software business today is that if you find something that can make you ridiculously rich, then that's something that Microsoft is going to take away from you." -- Max Metral
From: Ernie.Franic@citmonitor.usfca.edu (Ernie Franic) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NEXTSTEP confuses Virtual PC? Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:45:53 -0700 Organization: USF/Ctr. for Instruction & Technology Message-ID: <Ernie.Franic-1604981945530001@citmonitor.usfca.edu> References: <franic-1404982153430001@138.202.211.192> <6h3gst$dns$2@pith.uoregon.edu> In article <6h3gst$dns$2@pith.uoregon.edu>, Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> wrote: > It may not be worth your trouble. Looks like you don't have much ram (maybe > it's just not allocated to VPC). How much RAM do you have allocated to the PC environment in VPC? I wonder if RAM is the problem. (There are only 40MBs in my machine) >The other thing is you will need a fast power mac to make it even half way >useable. I put it on a 120 and a 150 with 96 megs and I would call it >exruciating. What kind of Macs are those? PPC 604 models? I'm planning to get a G3 and could test NEXTSTEP's performance under VPC on a friend's machine (7300/180+MaxPowr G3)---if I could get NEXTSTEP to start... (-: -Ernie
From: "David Waffen" <dmwaff@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT History Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:59:46 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <6h6r1q$qt2$1@winter.news.erols.com> References: <6groed$q2q$1@news.missouri.edu> <35324e08.21211540@news.mindspring.com> Go to http://nextstep.com ---> choose nextanswers or just poke around DW
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft From: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Message-ID: <1998Apr17.062326.11987@lorelei.approve.se> Originator: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Sender: hoh@lorelei.approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> <6h5a71$cn25@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <1998Apr17.061811.11824@lorelei.approve.se> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:23:26 GMT In article <1998Apr17.061811.11824@lorelei.approve.se>, Goran Larsson <hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL> wrote: > In article <6h5a71$cn25@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>, > Tom Harrington <tph@rmi.net> wrote: > > > Nor on SunOS 4.1.4 or 5.5.1. > > Did you test with telnet or rlogin? That won't work as this once > usefull feature is implemented in getty(8) and is therefore only > seen when you log in through a port that is monitored by getty, Just to clarify myself: The detection of loggin in with upper case only is implemented in getty(8) but the actual mapping when interacting with the system is done in the device driver for the terminal line. -- Goran Larsson hoh AT approve DOT se I was an atheist, http://home1 DOT swipnet DOT se/%7Ew-12153/ until I found out I was God.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft From: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Message-ID: <1998Apr17.061811.11824@lorelei.approve.se> Originator: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Sender: hoh@lorelei.approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> <6h5a71$cn25@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:18:11 GMT In article <6h5a71$cn25@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>, Tom Harrington <tph@rmi.net> wrote: > Nor on SunOS 4.1.4 or 5.5.1. Did you test with telnet or rlogin? That won't work as this once usefull feature is implemented in getty(8) and is therefore only seen when you log in through a port that is monitored by getty, such as a terminal port or the console. From the SunOS 4.1.4 getty(8) man page: | ... If all alphabetical characters in the login | name are in upper case, the system maps them along with all | subsequent upper-case input characters to lower-case inter- | nally; they are displayed in upper case for the benefit of | the terminal. To force recognition of an upper-case charac- | ter, the shell allows them to be quoted (typically by | preceding each with a backslash, `\'). -- Goran Larsson hoh AT approve DOT se I was an atheist, http://home1 DOT swipnet DOT se/%7Ew-12153/ until I found out I was God.
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: help with OS and configuring Date: 17 Apr 1998 05:08:32 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bd69f9$1e844500$40f0bfa8@davidsul> References: <01bd6662$376a8d80$43f0bfa8@davidsul> <353671BE.1464FBC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote in article <353671BE.1464FBC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk>... > There is something call 'dots' that will print (PS) on inkjets for > Nextstep/Openstep. > > I am fairly sure Openstep can not use your 3D graphics card (not the 3d > bit). If your video card is PCI, Configure.app will find it if it has a > .config bundle/driver that supports it. > > If you start Openstep in verbose mode (-v to the boot: prompt) or in > /usr/adm/messages you will see a list of PCI devices Openstep was able > to find. If you do not know what chipset your video card uses, you/we > may be able to work it out from the PCI vendor/device id, in the above > list. The card is a trident 975, at least thats what flashes during bios startup. Since it uses a trident 975 I set it up with the only trident driver in OS, trident generic. Plus, in configure.app their is a setting that says something like "drivers for devices detected" and none are listed, so it then switches to the other mode
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3534c13f.0@193.15.242.210> Control: cancel <3534c13f.0@193.15.242.210> Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:52:44 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3534c13f.0@193.15.242.210> Sender: CatherineW@icarus.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:58:59 -0400 From: joe.ragosta@dol.net (Joe Ragosta) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Good video card for OPENSTEP Message-ID: <joe.ragosta-1704981058590001@wil70.dol.net> References: <01bd69b4$a3ed2760$3ff0bfa8@davidsul> In article <01bd69b4$a3ed2760$3ff0bfa8@davidsul>, "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> wrote: > My pc has a video card with 4 megs of video memory and a trident 975 video > card. Trident generic video card doesnt work with it. What are good video > cards that work with openstep? If anyone wants to trade a 4 meg card that > works with opentsep for a jaton 3d blaze card with tv output I am game :) > > Cost of video cards is also a issue. The matrox I hear is a good card but > costs like $150, some lesser priced 4 meg cards would be nice as well, say > under $100? And working well with opengl would be nice for games as well > :) You should probably go to Apple's web site to look for the old NeXT compatibility list--it's as good a starting point as any. Someone suggested a Diamond Stealth to me when I asked the same question. -- Regards, Joe Ragosta http://www.dol.net/~Ragosta/complmac.htm
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: cmsg cancel <6h5jmh$gm3$1725@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Control: cancel <6h5jmh$gm3$1725@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:51:26 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6h5jmh$gm3$1725@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Sender: ttnnbfla@news.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: cmsg cancel <6h5jmf$gm3$1724@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Control: cancel <6h5jmf$gm3$1724@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:51:19 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6h5jmf$gm3$1724@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Sender: ttnnbfla@news.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: cmsg cancel <6h5jmd$gm3$1723@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Control: cancel <6h5jmd$gm3$1723@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Date: 16 Apr 1998 18:51:18 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6h5jmd$gm3$1723@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Sender: ttnnbfla@news.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "NeXT Newbie" <macghod@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: My woes trying to setup ppp on OPENSTEP :( Date: 18 Apr 1998 02:04:21 GMT Message-ID: <01bd6aa8$8ef65440$23f0bfa8@davidsul> I am *STILL*!!! having problems getting ppp to work, I am using ppp 2.2, and am now using Gateway.app instead of Log0n. Now at least I am able to get Gateway to dial out. It dials out, my isp gives a Username: and Password: prompts (I have to enter these, even tho Gateway should?!??!) THen from the isp shell I start ppp, a bunch of garbage appears, THEN I click on pppd on Gateway.app, I then type /usr/etc/ifconfig ppp0 from the terminal.app shell, and ppp isnt up :( It says ppp0: flags=10<POINTOPOINT> WORSE still, Gateway.app freezes my computer about half the time when I click on dial, the preferences dialog comes up and my cursor is frozen! Here are the major files that gateway uses, I have tried to delete most of the comments so this post isnt too big First the 8 files under gateway.app preferences editor Options: mtu 296 lcp-echo-interval 15 # interval in seconds between touches lcp-echo-failure 3 # number of failed attempts before link shutdown debug # kdebug 17 defaultroute # -pap -chap # lock /dev/cufb login name hereismyloginname # crtscts bsdcomp 10,10 *************************************** ip-down file PATH=/usr/ucb:/bin:/usr/bin:/etc:/usr/etc:/usr/local/bin; export PATH if [ $2 = /dev/cufb ]; then kill `ps -ax | egrep "PopOver" | egrep -v "egrep" | sed 's/^\([ 0-9]*\) */\1'/` fi ********************************************* ip-up file PATH=/usr/ucb:/bin:/usr/bin:/etc:/usr/etc:/usr/local/bin; export PATH pid=`ps cax | egrep nmserver | awk '{print $1;}'` if [ -n "$pid" ]; then echo "PPP Reinitializing nmserver's network portion" > /dev/console kill -USR2 $pid fi (/usr/lib/sendmail -q) & *********************************** resolv conf domain concentric.net nameserver 206.134.133.10 nameserver 205.137.196.138 ******************************** syslog.conf daemon.debug /usr/adm/ppp2.2.log *.err;kern.debug;auth.notice /dev/console kern.debug;daemon,auth.notice;*.err;mail.crit /usr/adm/messages lpr.debug /usr/adm/lpd-errs mail.info /usr/spool/mqueue/syslog *********************************** rc.local fbshow -B -I "Starting local services" -z 92 # Read in configuration information . /etc/hostconfig # (echo -n 'local daemons:') >/dev/console # # Run your own commands here # # (echo '.') >/dev/console sh /etc/ppp/rc.local if [ -f /usr/local/bpf/reloc/bpf_reloc ]; then /usr/etc/kl_util -a /usr/local/bpf/reloc/bpf_reloc fi if [ -f /usr/local/ppp/reloc/ppp_reloc ]; then /usr/etc/kl_util -a /usr/local/ppp/reloc/ppp_reloc > /dev/console 2>&1 (echo -n ' ppp') > /dev/console fi ******************************************* remote BASIC|Basic setup:\ :el=^C^S^Q^U^D:ie=%$:oe=^D: # a9600|cua9600|Dial-out on cua at 9600 baud:\ :dv=/dev/cua:br#9600:tc=BASIC: b9600|cub9600|Dial-out on cub at 9600 baud:\ :dv=/dev/cub:br#9600:tc=BASIC: fa9600|cufa9600|Dial-out on cufa at 9600 baud:\ :dv=/dev/cufa:br#9600:tc=BASIC: fb9600|cufb9600|Dial-out on cufb at 9600 baud:\ :dv=/dev/cufb:br#9600:tc=BASIC: ttya9600|Hardwire on ttya at 9600 baud:\ :dv=/dev/ttya:br#9600:tc=BASIC: ttyb9600|Hardwire on ttyb at 9600 baud:\ :dv=/dev/ttyb:br#9600:tc=BASIC: b288|cudfb28800|Dial-out on cudfb at 28800 baud:\ :dv=/dev/cudfb:pa=none:br#38400:tc=BASIC: dial1200|1200 Baud Hayes attributes:\ :dv=/dev/cua:br#1200:at=hayes:du: dial300|300 Hayes attributes:\ :dv=/dev/cua:br#300:at=hayes:du: UNIX-1200|1200 Baud dial-out to another UNIX system:\ :el=^U^C^R^O^D^S^Q@:ie=#%$:oe=^D:tc=dial1200: UNIX-300|300 Baud dial-out to another UNIX system:\ :el=^U^C^R^O^D^S^Q@:ie=#%$:oe=^D:tc=dial300: # tip0|tip1200:tc=UNIX-1200: tip300:tc=UNIX-300: cu0|cu300:tc=UNIX-300: cu1200:tc=UNIX-1200: dialer:dv=/dev/cua:br#1200: **************************************** modeminit EXPECT connected; SEND AT&F; EXPECT OK; SEND AT&D0; EXPECT OK; SEND AT M1; EXPECT OK; next comes the 2 file under link, which is in preferences options: /dev/cufb 57600 debug # kdebug 1 is SC_DEBUG 57600 SC_LOG_INPKT 57600 SC_LOG_OUTPKT 57600 SC_LOG_RAWIN 57600 SC_LOG_FLUSH defaultroute #-pap #-chap lock /dev/cufb # crtscts #bsdcomp 10,10 -bsdcomp #-vj # #proxyarp pppup under link in preferences ABORT BUSY ABORT "NO CARRIER" ABORT "NO DIAL TONE" ABORT "ERROR" "" AT&F "OK" AT&K3 "OK" ATS95=47 "OK" AT&D2 "OK" ATM3 "OK" ATDT9624610 CONNECT "" Username: nope assword: notgonnalist "" and finally the chat file UW PICO(tm) 2.3 File: /usr/local/bin/chat ABORT BUSY ABORT "NO CARRIER" ABORT "NO DIAL TONE" ABORT "ERROR" "" AT&F "OK" AT&K3 "OK" ATS95=47 "OK" AT&D2 "OK" ATM3 "OK" ATDT9624610 CONNECT "" Username: nope assword: notgonnalist "" also, under defaults it says: /usr/local/bin/pppd -detach I went to /usr/local/bin and bin is empty? Thus I figured maybe I should reinstall ppp 2.2 just to be safe, but it wouldnt install because the files in /etc/ppp were still their. I knew the files were in /etc/ppp, but I figured ppp would want to install it in /usr/local/bin/ ??
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From: howardk@iswest.com (Howard Knight) Organization: Internet Specialties West, Inc. Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <18049815.0900@bbs.scu.edu.tw> Date: 18 Apr 1998 10:20:45 GMT Control: cancel <18049815.0900@bbs.scu.edu.tw> Message-ID: <cancel.18049815.0900@bbs.scu.edu.tw> Sender: q.bbs@bbs.scu.edu.tw Spam cancelled. Autocancel spam type: spam
From: howardk@iswest.com (Howard Knight) Organization: Internet Specialties West, Inc. Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <18049815.2552@bbs.me.ncku.edu.tw> Date: 18 Apr 1998 10:23:08 GMT Control: cancel <18049815.2552@bbs.me.ncku.edu.tw> Message-ID: <cancel.18049815.2552@bbs.me.ncku.edu.tw> Sender: sys0p.bbs@bbs.me.ncku.edu.tw Spam cancelled. Autocancel spam type: spam
From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.compute Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: 18 Apr 1998 12:15:37 GMT Message-ID: <6ha5h9$9q$4@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <6h58km$h27$1@mpsrv3.multipath.com> On 1998-04-16 mdavis@DELmultipath.com said: :Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt. :folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft :In article <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu>, :Josh Hesse <00093182@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: :>Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch) wrote: :>: David Wragg wrote: :>: > :>: > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) :>: > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it :>will assume : > you are on an upper case only terminal and the :>terminal driver will : > translate everything to upper case. :>: > :>: > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it :>: > worked. :>: :>: I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. :>: :>This doesn't seem to work on Nextstep/Mach :-( :It doesn't work on Solaris 2.5. funny, it worked on the sunos/solaris systems we used at college. we were always doing it... :< -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
From: howardk@iswest.com (Howard Knight) Organization: Internet Specialties West, Inc. Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <18049815.4316@ms6.hinet.net> Date: 18 Apr 1998 10:26:29 GMT Control: cancel <18049815.4316@ms6.hinet.net> Message-ID: <cancel.18049815.4316@ms6.hinet.net> Sender: u0710@ms6.hinet.net Spam cancelled. Autocancel spam type: spam
From: LaserPointers.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:15:14 PDT Subject: Check it out! Organization: Email Platinum v.3.1b Message-ID: <3537d48c.0@bonaparte.pixi.com> Visit http://www.LaserPointers.com Check out our site for the smallest, least expensive pointers on the market! For only $19.50 plus shipping and handling, you can own one! It measures only 2inches by 9mm!, yet it can send a brilliant red dot up to 1200 feet, even in the brightest of rooms! To place you order, visit our home page at: http://www.LaserPointers.com LaserPointer.com staff
From: Eric Davis <sam@dimensional.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: Rhapsody Intel users in Massachusetts? Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:50:02 -0600 Organization: Dimensional Communications Message-ID: <35392E1A.5ED01CAE@dimensional.com> References: <6cv6tq$18f$1@eco.3e.org> <6d2utm$1nj$6@duke.squonk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that breaking a few rules to help get someone off M$oft-based products is ok...let's not whine about it. > dmd@eco.3e.org (Daniel M. Drucker) wrote: > > > > I'm looking for anyone running Rhapsody for Intel in central or > > eastern Massachusetts... who would be willing to let me use their > > installation media. I'm going to puke if I'm forced to follow > > Redmond for another day. > > Anyone with Rhapsody for Intel (as opposed to OpenStep for Intel) > has it under NDA. I doubt they can just "let people use" their > installation disks. >
From: mdevlin@eltrax.com (T. Max Devlin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:52:43 GMT Organization: Eltrax Systems/Hi-TECH Connections Message-ID: <354c6b78.20585442@news.supernews.com> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <y7rg1jg7xg4.fsf@getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> <6h58km$h27$1@mpsrv3.multipath.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Davis <mdavis@DELmultipath.com>, on 16 Apr 1998 11:37:58 -0400, >In article <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu>, >Josh Hesse <00093182@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: >>Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch) wrote: >>: David Wragg wrote: >>: > >>: > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) >>: > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it will assume >>: > you are on an upper case only terminal and the terminal driver will >>: > translate everything to upper case. >>: > >>: > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it >>: > worked. >>: >>: I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. >>: >> >>This doesn't seem to work on Nextstep/Mach :-( >It doesn't work on Solaris 2.5. I happen to have seen this just recently (but not recently enough to confirm or give specifics). I saw a line in the system "startup script" (I believe it was /etc/profile) on a Solaris 2.5 or 2.6, which specifically handled this behavior. If I remember correctly, this script actually turns off the feature, so that people don't "accidentally" get tagged with caps-only terminals. That would indicate that the underlying OS still maintains this behavior. -- T. Max Devlin Hi-TECH Connections/Eltrax Systems ***************************************************** - Opinions expressed are my own. Anyone else may use them only in accordance with licensing agreements. -
From: Greg de Freitas <greg@uniques.globalnet.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: Monitor Cable Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 03:45:23 +0100 Organization: Hollywood Computing ltd. Message-ID: <35396543.4563F324@uniques.globalnet.co.uk> References: <3533A46D.87CC16C4@csun.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Monitor Cable Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:27:45 +0200 Organization: Nortel Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: wjbas01y.europe.nortel.com Xref: news.itg.net.uk comp.sys.next.misc:1239 comp.sys.next.hardware:2367 X-Mozilla-Status: 8010 Here are the specifications provided by next for colorstation monitor cable (it's the same for the cube): It's a 13W3 connector with : PIN Signal 1 +12V 2 PWR switch 3 MON CLK 4 MON DATA OUT 5 MON DATA IN 6 -12V 7 GND 8 GND 9 GND 10 GND A1 Inner RED VIDEO A1 Outer RED VIDEO GND A2 Inner GREEN VIDEO A2 Outer GREEN VIDEO GND A3 Inner BLUE VIDEO A3 Outer BLUE VIDEO GND IF you need B&W pinouts just e-mail me. Hope this helps Sebastien -- Ciao 4 now, Greg. # Home Page : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~uniques/ # # Email : mailto:greg@uniques.globalnet.co.uk # # To Live, To Love, To Learn, To Leave A Legacy. #
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <5697892353623@digifix.com> Date: 19 Apr 1998 03:50:14 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <23877892958423@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
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From: nobody@nowhere33.yet Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops Subject: MERRY CUM-MAS!! 35144 Date: Sunday, 19 Apr 1998 02:08:55 -0600 Organization: <no organization> Distribution: World Message-ID: <19049802.0855@nowhere33.yet> INTENSE HARDCORE IMAGES OF SLUTTY LESBIANS LICKING CUNTS AND ASSHOLES RAW RAW RAW http://tightpussy.dyn.ml.org/michelle/ i=PEe`.S$pi$AZ&jzJAs
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: help with OS and configuring Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 12:16:40 +0100 Organization: Total Connectivity Providers - Maximising the Internet Message-ID: <3539DD18.68854FE7@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <01bd6662$376a8d80$43f0bfa8@davidsul> <353671BE.1464FBC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <01bd69f9$1e844500$40f0bfa8@davidsul> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So this Trident card is not recognized by your current set of drivers. This may be due to the PCI vendor/device ID of your particular Trident card not being listed. If I remember your problem correctly, the driver does not recognize the hardware, gives up and you are left in a 640 x 480 x 2 BW screen. You could try the SVGA driver, for 800 x 600 x 2 BW, but this may not work at all; the driver uses the VBIOS and this has to be well behaved, whereas Trident is a cheap manufacturer so this is less likely. I had a look on NextAnswers (ent.apple.com), but the only Trident drivers are the Trident Generic one and the IBMThinkpad ones. Either, get a card/chipset that is recognised and use that for Openstep, or, wait until someone writes a driver for your card/chipset (approx. $4000-$15,000 for one user and $50 for lots). In Windows 95, what does ControlPanel/SystemProperties/DeviceManager/DisplayAdpater/<x>/Propties/Resources say? NeXT Newbie wrote: > > Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote in article > <353671BE.1464FBC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk>... > > There is something call 'dots' that will print (PS) on inkjets for > > Nextstep/Openstep. > > > > I am fairly sure Openstep can not use your 3D graphics card (not the 3d > > bit). If your video card is PCI, Configure.app will find it if it has a > > .config bundle/driver that supports it. > > > > If you start Openstep in verbose mode (-v to the boot: prompt) or in > > /usr/adm/messages you will see a list of PCI devices Openstep was able > > to find. If you do not know what chipset your video card uses, you/we > > may be able to work it out from the PCI vendor/device id, in the above > > list. > > The card is a trident 975, at least thats what flashes during bios startup. > > Since it uses a trident 975 I set it up with the only trident driver in OS, > trident generic. Plus, in configure.app their is a setting that says > something like "drivers for devices detected" and none are listed, so it > then switches to the other mode
From: u@canguess.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops Subject: ASIAN babe wants YOU to take care of here Date: Sunday, 19 Apr 1998 18:22:32 -0600 Organization: <no organization> Distribution: World Message-ID: <19049818.2232@canguess.com> http://xxx-18.com/hotbabe/
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3537d48c.0@bonaparte.pixi.com> Control: cancel <3537d48c.0@bonaparte.pixi.com> Date: 18 Apr 1998 17:19:40 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3537d48c.0@bonaparte.pixi.com> Sender: LaserPointers.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: -Easy money better than MLM! From: oeqyfyxugreenstuff@email.com Organization: Success Pte Ltd Message-ID: <353a6ab4.0@news.cyberway.com.sg> Date: 19 Apr 98 21:20:52 GMT **************************************************************** * This Article was Posted By an unregistered version of: * * Newsgroup AutoPoster 95 * * Send email address for info! Fax: +46-31-470588 * **************************************************************** HONEST "PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE" OPPORTUNITY 100 TIMES MORE EFFECTIVE THAN MLM! Could YOU use an extra $3,000, $5,000 or MAYBE $10,000 in the next 2 weeks? The Total Investment is only Five Dollars and less than One Hour of Work! THAT'S IT! Unless you want to do it again. COMPARED TO OTHER MLM'S: 1. It is so much easier to start. 2. You don't need to continually monitor or work it. 3. One time, very small initial investment. 4. Very high response rate. 5. Fantastic return on investment. 6. Perfectly legal. PLEASE TAKE THREE MINUTES TO FIND OUT HOW! THIS IS THE FASTEST, EASIEST PROGRAM you will ever do. Complete it in less than ONE HOUR and you will never forget the day you first received it. If you are doing other programs, by all means stay with them. The more the merrier! But, PLEASE READ ON! There are only THREE LEVELS. This three-level program is more realistic and much, much faster. Because it is so easy, the response rate for this program is VERY HIGH and VERY FAST. You will receive your rewards in about FOURTEEN DAYS. That's only TWO WEEKS - not three months. Then, buy those extra things you've been dreaming of. Cindy Allen tells how she ran this gift summation four times last year. The first time, she received $3,000 in cash in two weeks and then $7,000 in cash the next three times. When this letter is continued as it should be, EVERYONE PROFITS! Don't be afraid to make a gift to a stranger, it will come back to you TEN FOLD. Many of us have pet programs that we want to support, food, medicine or medical care for poor children is another. Maybe, you just need a new car, want to pay off some bills or take a much needed vacation. DO IT. IT'S YOUR TURN! HERE ARE THE SIMPLE DETAILS You e-mail just 20 copies (the more copies you send the more cash you make) of this program to people you personally know, to people like you who are interested in earning extra cash, and to people who send you e-mail about their programs. WHY? Because they are already believers and your program is BETTER AND FASTER. Even if you are already in a program, continue to stay with it. But, do yourself a favor and DO THIS ONE for the fast cash. RIGHT NOW! It is so simple and the cost is so little. Like going out for fast food or buying a couple of beers. JUST GIFT ONE PERSON A 5 DOLLAR BILL. THAT'S IT! THAT'S ALL! Follow these simple instructions and in as little as TWO WEEKS you could have at least $3,000, $5,000, or up to $10,000 in five dollar gifts. Why? Because many people WILL respond due to the "LOW" cost to get started and a VERY HIGH REWARDING POTENTIAL! So, get going and help each other! The government certainly isn't going to. 1. On a sheet of paper, clearly write down YOUR name and address, along with the statement "I GIVE THIS FIVE DOLLAR GIFT TO YOU OF MY OWN FREE WILL AND EXPECT NOTHING IN RETURN." Fold it around a FIVE DOLLAR BILL. Send it to the FIRST name on the list. ONLY THE FIRST PERSON ON THE LIST GETS YOUR NAME AND A FIVE DOLLAR GIFT. 2. Now, remove the first name and address from the list and move the other two names up. Then, add YOUR name and address to the third (#3) position. 3. Save your changes and then e-mail 20 copies or more of this letter. Remember, an excellent source of names are the people who send you other programs and the names listed on the letters that they send you. Do it right away. It's so easy! Don't mull it over. ONE HOUR! THAT'S IT! There are no mailing lists to buy or wait for. You can do it again and again with your regular group of Gifters. Why not? It pays to help others! Each time you receive a MLM offer, respond with THIS letter! Your name will climb to the number ONE position in a DIZZYING geometric rate. So, come on! The prospect of an easy $3,000, $5,000 to $10,000 in TWO WEEKS is worth a little experimentation, isn't it? It only takes less than One Hour of your time and a five dollar bill (cash). ACT FAST AND GET MONEY FAST! HONESTY AND INTEGRITY MAKE THIS PLAN WORK. COPY THE NAMES CAREFULLY AND SEND YOUR FIVE DOLLAR CASH GIFT TO THE FIRST NAME. SPECIAL NOTE: Please don't try to cheat the system. You will only be cheating yourself. PEOPLE HELPING OTHER PEOPLE! 1. MRA Consultants 761 Amsterdam Road Dept. #1 Mt. Laurel, NJ 08054-3201 2. Picasso Chen Blk 611 Ang Mo Kio Aveune 5 #11-2805 Singapore 560611 3. Simon Tan Blk 4 Hill View Ave #03-1090 Singapore 661004
From: khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU (Kin Hoong CHUNG) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Date: 18 Apr 1998 07:49:31 GMT Organization: University of New South Wales Message-ID: <6h9lub$eon$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <y7rg1jg7xg4.fsf@getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk> <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> <6h3ght$2bg@crcnis3.unl.edu> <6h58km$h27$1@mpsrv3.multipath.com> Michael Davis (mdavis@DELmultipath.com) wrote: : It doesn't work on Solaris 2.5. Does anything :-p:-p:-p? Cheers, Kin Hoong
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35380bf0.0@news.codenet.net> Control: cancel <35380bf0.0@news.codenet.net> Date: 19 Apr 1998 03:12:47 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35380bf0.0@news.codenet.net> Sender: HOT XXXXXX Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: michael@hesta.com (Michael Verruto) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: SAMBA help? Date: 20 Apr 1998 15:10:06 GMT Organization: HPI Capital, LLC Message-ID: <6hfoge$7q0@corporate.hesta.com> I posted a message last week for help with roaming profiles on SAMBA, and was wondering if anyone knew of a OPENSTEP specific SAMBA forum I could post the request to instead of here? Here is the post
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops Subject: cmsg cancel <19049818.2232@canguess.com> Control: cancel <19049818.2232@canguess.com> Date: 19 Apr 1998 16:43:40 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.19049818.2232@canguess.com> Sender: u@canguess.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Laurent Curnier <Laurent.Curnier@loria.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: loginWindow problem Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:47:47 +0200 Organization: INRIA Message-ID: <353BA662.4BE8CECF@loria.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a problem when I boot my NextCube (NS 3.0): At the end of the booting session, a "console" window appears, instead of the loginwindow. I tried to launch the loginwindow by hand, but nothing happens. I tried also to launch the WindowServer, but I've got a Memory Fault. The strange thing is that I've done nothing on config files. I thought my disk was corrupted, but fsck didn't find an error. Has anyone got a clue about this ? Do I need to re-install the system ?? Thanks in advance. Laurent Curnier -- ----------------------------------------------------------- | Laurent Curnier (CCH) | Web : www.loria.fr/~curnier | -----------------------------------------------------------
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <353a6ab4.0@news.cyberway.com.sg> Control: cancel <353a6ab4.0@news.cyberway.com.sg> Date: 19 Apr 1998 21:47:11 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.353a6ab4.0@news.cyberway.com.sg> Sender: oeqyfyxugreenstuff@email.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Date: 21 Apr 1998 15:04:22 GMT From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) Sender: rbriston@skylinc.net Message-ID: <cancel.18049816.1827@skylinc.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <18049816.1827@skylinc.net> Control: cancel <18049816.1827@skylinc.net> XXX18 spam cancelled by clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca Total spams this type to date: Total this spam type for this user: Total this spam type for this user today: Originating site: www.axon.se Complaint addresses:
Date: 21 Apr 1998 19:12:52 GMT From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) Sender: u1000233@email.sjsu.edu Message-ID: <cancel.18049816.3058@email.sjsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <18049816.3058@email.sjsu.edu> Control: cancel <18049816.3058@email.sjsu.edu> XXX18 spam cancelled by clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca Total spams this type to date: Total this spam type for this user: Total this spam type for this user today: Originating site: www.axon.se Complaint addresses:
From: alex@guava.phil.lehigh.edu (Alex Levine) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT Sighting in New York Times Date: 22 Apr 1998 13:55:06 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <6hksrq$1d7k@fidoii.cc.Lehigh.EDU> Hi all! Empirical proof that NeXT hardware is alive and well in New Mexico: P. F3 of Tuesday's New York Times shows dapper physicist Dr. Paul Ginsparg posing in front of his attractive black workstation in his desert home. There he controls the acclaimed physics preprint site at xxx.lanl.gov. Cheers, Alex -- Alexander Levine Philosophy Department Lehigh University ATL2@lehigh.edu
From: next_os@theglobe.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: New NeXT site Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 17:57:25 -0600 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6hlskl$r84$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi everyone. I'm posting this to 3 NeXT newsgroups--sorry about the cross posts. I found it hard finding sites for anything NeXT, so I made one myself. I'd appreciate it if you would visit and give me any sugeestions and information. The URL is http://members.theglobe.com/next_os/nextc.html Thanks everyone. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: Jake <jake@cpht.polytechnique.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT TIFF files on a Mac Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:18:09 +0200 Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Message-ID: <353F3FB3.536341CE@cpht.polytechnique.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everyone, I migrated several months ago to a Mac from a NeXT. I needed to move my computing environment to a laptop. And Rhapsody is coming. Anyway, the question of the moment is: Is there a graphic conversion program, preferably cheap, that knows how to intrepret TIFF files from a NeXT system. Neither GraphicConvertor nor Imagery work. Any info would be appreciated, and I would appreciate replies by email. Thank you for your time and please have a good day, Jake -- _________ Pourquoi veux-tu lire ces livres à longs cheveux, mon petit?!! - Foghorn Leghorn
From: klui@cup.hp.com (Ken Lui) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT TIFF files on a Mac Date: 23 Apr 1998 23:00:46 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company Message-ID: <6hoh6u$7a7$1@ocean.cup.hp.com> References: <353F3FB3.536341CE@cpht.polytechnique.fr> In article <353F3FB3.536341CE@cpht.polytechnique.fr>, Jake <jake@cpht.polytechnique.fr> wrote: >Is there a graphic conversion program, >preferably cheap, that knows how to >intrepret TIFF files from a NeXT system. >Neither GraphicConvertor nor Imagery work. The only program I know that works is Adobe Photoshop. You may want to try some programs that convert the TIFFs to some other format on the NeXT first. Ken -- Ken Lui 19111 Pruneridge Avenue M/S 44UR klui@cup.hp.com Cupertino, CA 95014-0795 USA Information Solutions & Services 1.408.447.3230 FAX 1.408.447.1053 Views within this message may not be those of the Hewlett-Packard Company
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35397e04.0@news.codenet.net> Control: cancel <35397e04.0@news.codenet.net> Date: 23 Apr 1998 09:07:20 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35397e04.0@news.codenet.net> Sender: ADULTS ONLY!!!!!!!!!! Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: mrb@spamisevil.bowles-hall.com (Brendan Bolles) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: loginWindow problem Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 05:16:07 -0700 Organization: UC Berkeley Message-ID: <mrb-2304980516070001@ip-206-79-223-122.dialup.autobahn.org> References: <353BA662.4BE8CECF@loria.fr> In article <353BA662.4BE8CECF@loria.fr>, Laurent Curnier <Laurent.Curnier@loria.fr> wrote: > I've got a problem when I boot my NextCube (NS 3.0): > > At the end of the booting session, a "console" window appears, instead > of the loginwindow. > I tried to launch the loginwindow by hand, but nothing happens. I tried > also to launch the WindowServer, but I've got a Memory Fault. > > The strange thing is that I've done nothing on config files. I thought > my disk was corrupted, but fsck didn't find an error. > > > Has anyone got a clue about this ? Do I need to re-install the system ?? That's pretty strange that it just started doing that. Control over this is in the /etc/ttys file. The first two data lines should look like this: # console "/usr/etc/getty std.9600" NeXT on secure console /usr/lib/NextStep/loginwindow NeXT on secure window=/usr/li b/NextStep/WindowServer onoption="/usr/etc/getty std.9600" (I seperated them because the second line is long) It's very important that the first console line be commented out. I think uncommenting it will make that other console appear rather than the loginwindow. If something is wrong here and the path isn't the loginwindow or is something has happened to the loginwindow permissions-wise or if it has gotten corrupted, that could explain why it isn't launching. You might want to try recopying the loginwindow from your CD if you have it. But otherwise, a reinstall may be the easier than tracking down the real problem, which you may not be able to fix anyway. Good luck. Brendan
From: appology for ADULTS ONLY Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:43:08 PDT Subject: ERROR IN POSTING Organization: Email Platinum v.3.1b Message-ID: <353a6045.0@news.codenet.net> THIS PAST WEEKEND THERE PROBABLY WAS AN ERROR IN POSTING TO YOUR NEWS GROUP. AN ADULTS ONLY MESSAGE FOR http://pics.xxxhosting.net WAS SENT OUT BY ACCIDENT 2x IF YOU HAVE NOT YET READ THIS LETTER WITH THIS URL ABOVE WHEN YOU SEE ADULTS ONLY IN THE FROM OR SUBJECT AREA DELETE IT THANK YOU!
From: bmajik@goliath.unl.edu (Matt Evans) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTSTEP on Sparc ? Date: 24 Apr 1998 12:52:58 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Message-ID: <6hq1va$hs$1@unlnews.unl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii So I've got a few sun machines and I was wondering what the HCL for NeXTSTEP/OpenstepMACH for SPARC machines looked like. www.next.com (under "new" management) doesn't seem to be helpful. I read the entire NeXT faq but it only talks about black or intel boxen. Anyone have any pointers to info about NS on other machines ? Thanks in advance, Matt -- *********************************************************** * Matt Evans * * University of Nebraska, Lincoln work: bmajik@ntr.net * * Computer Engineering Major school: mevans@cse.unl.edu * ***********************************************************
Subject: Re: Newby needs help Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer References: <01bc46e5$6b4880a0$24f0bfa8@davidsul> <6god24$lq4$1@news.rt66.com> <01bd6585$58835660$0b0ba8c0@woohoo> <35366F1B.98331849@forsee.tcp.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <35366F1B.98331849@forsee.tcp.co.uk> From: hacker@computation.com Message-ID: <_Z101.966$ub.1227872@news.internetMCI.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:12:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 11:12:58 EDT On 04/16/98, Robert Forsyth wrote: >Yes, but, doesn't Openstep only see the MSDOS 8.3 name. OpenStep 4.2 totally broke the NeXT implementation of DOS file systems. Besides getting confused when you try to rename DOS files under OpenStep, I am unable to copy files to the DOS partitions which have filename lengths greater than 8 characters and just as bad, OpenStep will not copy files into DOS partitions whose filenames contain ANY uppercase characters. This brain dead behavior is inexcusable. NeXT had a decent DOS file system handling capability and OpenStep broke it totally. WHat is NeXT's (now Apple Enterprise Software) problem? Must be too many Friday afternoon beer bashes. - Hacker -- Dark Hacker | e-mail hacker@computation.com Fortress Of Computation | Web http://www.computation.com/pub/hacker/ ____________________________________________________________________ "Life would be so much easier if only we had the source code."
From: esky@marathon.cs.ucla.edu (Eskandar Ensafi) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OpenWrite Broken Under OpenStep 4.2 Date: 24 Apr 1998 15:20:48 GMT Organization: University of California, Los Angeles Message-ID: <6hqakg$4ci$1@news.cs.ucla.edu> Hi, Sorry about the cross-post, but since Lighthouse Design is defunct, I didn't know where else to turn. Ever since I installed OpenStep 4.2, the Spelling Checker in OpenWrite 2.1.8 (last and latest version) no longer works properly (actually, it doesn't work at all). Is there a workaround to this problem, or does this mean that I should dump OpenWrite altogether? Are there other word processing packages currently available for 4.2 OpenStep on NeXT/Intel? I've heard about another product, CedarWord, from Cedar Systems, but I don't know how good it is or if something better is available. Please reply by e-mail, as I do not frequently read news. Thanks! -- Eskandar Ensafi Space Computer Corporation <Ensafi@SpaceComputer.Com> -- "Forgotten children, conform a new faith | Avidity and lust controlled by hate | South of Heaven Never-ending search for your shattered sanity | S L A Y E R Souls of damnation in their own reality" |
From: me@seifert.educ.mun.ca (Tim Seifert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: HP printer driver -- help Date: 24 Apr 1998 16:25:59 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland Message-ID: <6hqeen$hin$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> I am looking for NS3.3 printer driver for the HP LaserJet 4+ printer (a non-postscript printer). I wasn't able to find one in NeXTAnswers, but I may have been looking in the wrong place. Any help is appreciated. Thanks! Tim Seifert St. John's, Newfoundland
From: "Andrew Green" <agreen@SRHS.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Fibermux Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 01:11:09 -0700 Organization: HBOC VAN Message-ID: <6hqh13$oie$1@isrv1.hbocvan.com> I have some fibermux equipment that was attached to an AS/400 system and we are looking for a buyer. This equipment can be used for other systems. Please send inquiries to agreen@srhs.com Thanks Andrew Green
From: Andre-John Mas <ama@fabre.act.qc.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT TIFF files on a Mac Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:09:56 -0500 Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980424080809.6464C-100000@fabre.act.qc.ca> References: <353F3FB3.536341CE@cpht.polytechnique.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Jake <jake@cpht.polytechnique.fr> In-Reply-To: <353F3FB3.536341CE@cpht.polytechnique.fr> On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Jake wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I migrated several months ago to a Mac from > a NeXT. I needed to move my computing > environment to a laptop. And Rhapsody > is coming. > > Anyway, the question of the moment is: > Is there a graphic conversion program, > preferably cheap, that knows how to > intrepret TIFF files from a NeXT system. > Neither GraphicConvertor nor Imagery work. > There are two solutions that work: - Adobe Photoshop - Quicktime 3.0 The latter is free, unless you want access to everything it has to offer. AJ
From: AUCTION <auction.008@interserv.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Adobe Framemaker +SGML (Only $395) Date: Friday, 24 Apr 1998 14:18:15 -0600 Organization: CDE6 Message-ID: <24049814.1815@interserv.com> Adobe Framemaker +SGML (Only $395) =================================== FULL VERSION (5.1 for WIN 95 / NT) http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/framemaker/prodinfosgml.html ONE COPY LEFT ! Brand New....Still in Shrinkwrap ! It Retails for $1000+ Yours for Only $395 !!! =========== WE ACCEPT: =========== 1) VISA 2) MASTERCARD 3) AMERICAN EXPRESS 4) DISCOVER / NOVUS 5) WIRE TRANSFER 6) CASHIER CHECK 7) MONEY ORDER CALL TOLL FREE ================= 1-888-300-5069 Vz$4E<n
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <24049814.1815@interserv.com> Control: cancel <24049814.1815@interserv.com> Date: 24 Apr 1998 20:04:53 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.24049814.1815@interserv.com> Sender: AUCTION <auction.008@interserv.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Manu Iyengar <iyengar@NoSpam4U.psca.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP on Sparc ? Date: 24 Apr 1998 13:51:04 -0700 Organization: Paradigm Systems Corporation Message-ID: <7yvhrz3pvr.fsf@romulus> References: <6hq1va$hs$1@unlnews.unl.edu> In-reply-to: bmajik@goliath.unl.edu's message of 24 Apr 1998 12:52:58 GMT In article <6hq1va$hs$1@unlnews.unl.edu> bmajik@goliath.unl.edu (Matt Evans) writes: So I've got a few sun machines and I was wondering what the HCL for NeXTSTEP/OpenstepMACH for SPARC machines looked like. www.next.com (under "new" management) doesn't seem to be helpful. I read the entire NeXT faq but it only talks about black or intel boxen. Anyone have any pointers to info about NS on other machines ? Thanks in advance, Matt Sun SPARC hardware has been supported since NEXTSTEP 3.3, and OPENSTEP 4.2/Mach makes a fine Operating System for a SPARCstation. You should consult the compatibility guides on NeXTanswers. See: http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/ http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1843.htmld/1843.html Good luck. ^mi
From: tvz@Princeton.EDU (Timothy Van Zandt) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: HP printer driver -- help Date: 24 Apr 1998 19:38:24 GMT Organization: Princeton University Message-ID: <6hqpng$jp$1@cnn.Princeton.EDU> References: <6hqeen$hin$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: me@seifert.educ.mun.ca In <6hqeen$hin$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Tim Seifert wrote: > I am looking for NS3.3 printer driver for the HP LaserJet 4+ printer (a > non-postscript printer). I wasn't able to find one in NeXTAnswers, but I > may have been looking in the wrong place. Any help is appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Tim Seifert > St. John's, Newfoundland JetPilot works well. Avail. e.g., from www.blackhole.com tim vz
Message-ID: <35410DA2.515B5FCC@rit.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:09:38 -0400 From: Jeff Sciortino <jjs2815@rit.edu> Organization: RIT MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc To: Matt Evans <bmajik@goliath.unl.edu> Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP on Sparc ? References: <6hq1va$hs$1@unlnews.unl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Openstep Solaris is no longer supported by Sun, but if you hunt around long enough, you can find a web site that has a download, and info including a screen shot. -Jeff
From: "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: many quesions Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:37:03 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6hrp9l$1p4s$1@news.missouri.edu> Dear all NeXT Experts, I have several questions regarding both software and hardwares. Since there might be some interaction between them. Therefore, I include all questions and post them in 3 newsgroups, hope you don't mind. 1) This is the popular question but I can't find it in any FAQ, though.. I'd like to connect my PC to the NeXT. I'm using 10BaseT interface to the hub by RJ45 and I have BJ45 from NeXT to that hub. Well, my question is, how can I make my PC sees NeXT and vice versa. Also, is it possible to share the printers between two systems? 2) Since NeXT already have SCSI interface, what is the interfacing? I saw on the back system looks like SCSI-2 but in the manual said it's SCSI(I assume it's SCSI). In addition, there are some venders sell SCSI-2 to SCSI-1 interface... If I have external SCSI-CD-ROM Drive, which is the SCSI-2.. Can I use it with NeXT? If so, how can I do it??? I'd love to have my NeXT talks to CD... 3) Do you think we can use ZIP driv(SCSI) with NeXT? 4) I can't download any software and use it in NeXT. I download the software on PC and copy them to NeXT (my NeXT doesn't have internet connection and I don't want to since my PC is more powerful-Pentium-II-400MHz). Most of them is .tar file. After I copied to NeXT, it shows icon as TAR (that makes me happy for a while). But when I click at it, it said that, I need to "unarchieve" by using tar command???? Can't I double click it directly????? What should I do if I want to download from my PC and transfer to NeXT???(This will be better if I can LAN my PC to NeXT). 5) What is the best -in your opinion- of Integrated Development Environment (IDE) for NeXT? Where can I get it? 6) Is it possible to port my code to run on NeXT (and vice versa)? Thank you for the bandwidth and your time to read my questions(and answer my questions). I'm sorry if those questions offend you if I post in the wrong newsgroups. Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you very much for your suggestions. Any comments are most welcome... Your Sincerely, Sarawoot Chittratanawat
From: "Oscar J. Shearer" <ojs@omniweb.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP on Sparc ? Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:49:17 -0700 Organization: SafeNet Service & Support Message-ID: <35416B4D.162E16FC@omniweb.net> References: <6hq1va$hs$1@unlnews.unl.edu> <35410DA2.515B5FCC@rit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Jeff Sciortino <jjs2815@rit.edu> Jeff Sciortino wrote: > Openstep Solaris is no longer supported by Sun, but if you hunt around > long enough, you can find a web site that has a download, and info > including a screen shot. > > -Jeff How about a URL for example??
From: a@b.c Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: $$$ FREE CASH! $$$ Date: 25 Apr 1998 12:46:22 GMT Organization: FREE $$$ Message-ID: <6hsluu$fgd$552@news.on> $$$ Do YOU need extra CA$H?? $$$ Turn $6 into $60,000 in just 5 weeks!!! This is simple, safe, and it really works! For $6 (U.S), 6 stamps, and about an hour of your time, you could earn a year's salary in a month. Sounds to good to be true, but just imagine. WHAT IF? A little while back, I was browsing these newsgroups, just like you are now, and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00! So I thought, "Yeah, right, this must be a scam!" but like most of us, I was curious. Like most of us, I kept reading. Anyway, it said that if you send $1.00 to each of the 6 names and addresses stated in the article, you could make thousands in a very short period of time. You then place your own name and address at the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article to at least 200 newsgroups. (There are about 22,000.) or e-mail them to friends, or e-mailing lists... No catch, that was it. Even though the investment was a measly $6, I had three questions that needed to be answered before I could get involved in this sort of thing. 1. IS THIS REALLY LEGAL? I called a lawyer first. The lawyer was a little skeptical that I would actually make any money but he said it WAS LEGAL if I wanted to try it. I told him it sounded a lot like a chain letter but the details of the system (SEE BELOW) actually made it a legitimate legal business. 2. Would the Post Office be ok with this...? I called them: 1-800-725-2161 and they confirmed THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! (See Title 18,h sections 1302 NS 1341 of Postal Lottery Laws). This clarifies the program of collecting names and addresses for a mailing list. 3. Is this moral? Well, everyone who sends me a buck has a good chance of getting A LOT of money ... a much better chance than buying a lottery ticket! So, having these questions answered, I invested EXACTLY $7.92 ... six $1.00 bills and six 32 cent postage stamps ... and boy am I glad I did! Within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give it another thought. But the money just continued coming in. In my first week, I made about $20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I had a mad total of $1,000.00! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and it was still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in..... It's certainly worth $6.00 and 6 stamps! So now I'm reposting this so I can make even more money! The *ONLY* thing stopping *ANYONE* from enriching their own bank account is pure laziness! It took me all of 5 MINUTES to print this out, follow the directions, and begin posting to newsgroups. It took me a mere 45 minutes to post to over 200 newsgroups. And for this GRAND TOTAL investment of $ 7.92 (US) and under ONE HOUR of my time, I have reaped an incredible amount of money -- like nothing I've ever even heard of anywhere before! 'Nuff said! Let me tell you how this works, and most importantly, why it works. Also, make sure you print a copy of this article now, so you can get the information off of it when you need it. The process is very simple and consists of THREE easy steps. ============ HOW IT WORKS ============ STEP 1: ------ Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper: PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR MAILING LIST. $1 US DOLLAR PROCESSING FEE IS ENCLOSED. (THIS IS KEY AS THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT LEGAL SINCE YOU ARE PAYING FOR AND LATER OFFERING A SERVICE). Now get 6 $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent theft/robbery. Then, place one paper in each of the 6 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase and an U.S. $1.00 bill. Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1- R Sauter 3500 Crescent Ct Flower Mound, TX 75028 USA #2- Catherine Watkins P.O. Box 67 Chapel Hill, NC 27514-0067 USA #3- Brett Brandon 807 Brooks Av. Madison, Tn 37115 USA #4- B Jones 0504 E. 600 N. LaPorte, IN 46350 USA #5- tepinga trust 15 Victor Street Avondale, Auckland 1007 New Zealand #6- Mike Ericson P.O. Box 1211 Burnsville, MN 55337 USA STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (6 becomes 5, 5 becomes 4, etc.) and add YOUR Name as number 6 on the list. (If you want to remain anonymous put a nickname, but the address MUST be correct. It, of course, MUST contain your country, state/district/area, zip code, etc! You wouldn't want your money to fly away, wouldn't you?). STEP 3: Now post your amended article to at least 200 newsgroups. Remember that 200 postings are just a guideline. The more you post, the more money you make! Don't know HOW to post in the news groups? Well do exactly the following: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS FAST WITH YOUR WEB BROWSER: The fastest way to post a newsletter: Highlight and COPY (Ctrl-C) the text of this posted message and PASTE (Ctrl-V) it into a plain text editor (as Wordpad) and save it. After you have made the necessary changes that are stated above, simply COPY (Ctrl-C) and PASTE (Ctrl-V) the text into the message composition window, after selecting a newsgroup, and post it! (Or you can attach the file, without writing anything to the message window.) ------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you have Netscape Navigator 3.0 do the following: 1. Click on any newsgroup like normal, then click on 'TO NEWS'. This will bring up a box to type a message in. 2. Leave the newsgroup box like it is, change the subject box to something flashy, something to catch the eye, as "$$$ NEED CASH $$$? READ HERE! $! $! $" Or "$$$! MAKE FAST CASH, YOU CAN'T LOSE! $$$". Or you can use my subject title. 3. Now click on 'ATTACHMENTS'. Then click on 'ATTACH FILE'. Find your file on your Hard Disk (the one you saved from the text editor). Once you find it, click on it and then click 'OPEN' and 'OK'. You should now see your file name in the attachments box. 4. Now click on 'SEND'/'POST'. You see? Now you just have 199 to go! (Don't worry, it's easy and quick once you get used to it.) NOTE: All the versions of Netscape Navigator's are similar to each other, so you'll have no problem to do this if you don't have Netscape Navigator 3.0. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ! QUICK TIP! (For Netscape Navigator 3.x and above) You can post this message to many newsgroups at a time, by simply selecting a newsgroup near the top of the screen, hold down the SHIFT, and then select a newsgroup near the bottom of the screen. All of the newsgroups in/between will be selected. After that, you follow/do the basic steps, stated below at this letter, except of step #1. You can go to the page stated below in this letter and click on a newsgroup to open up the newsgroups window. Once you've done this, in the same window go to 'OPTIONS', and then mark 'SHOW ALL NEWSGROUPS' and 'SHOW ALL MESSAGES'. Now you can see all the newsgroups and you can apply easier the above tip. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you have MS Internet Explorer do the following: 1. Go to the newsgroups and press 'POST AN ARTICLE'. To the new window type your headline in the subject area and then click in the large window below. There either PASTE your letter (which it's been copied from the text editor), or attach the file which contains it. 2. Then click on 'SEND' or 'OK'. NOTE: All versions of MS Internet Explorer are similar to each other, so you won't have any problem doing this. GENERAL NOTES ON POSTING: A nice page where you'll find all the newsgroups if you want help is http://www.liszt.com/ (When you go to the home page, click on the link 'Newsgroup Directory'). But I don't think you'll have any problem posting because it's very easy once you've found the newsgroups. All these web browsers are similar. It doesn't matter which one you have. (But it makes it very easy if you have Netscape Navigator 3.0 or later. You may download it from the Internet if you don't have it.) You just have to remember the basic steps, stated below. BASIC STEPS FOR POSTING: 1. Find a newsgroup and you click on it. 2. You click on 'POST AN/NEW ARTICLE' or 'TO NEWS' or anything else similar to these. 3. You type your flashy headline in the subject box. 4. Now, either you attach the file containing your amended letter, or you PASTE the letter. (You have to COPY it from the text editor, of course, from before.) 5. Finally, you click on 'SEND' or 'POST' or 'OK', whatever is there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ **REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200** That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O.Box due to the large amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT. ** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================= Now the WHY part: ================= Out of 200 postings; say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00! Those 3,125 persons will all deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625,00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW! Average are probable 20 to 30! So lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person. Here is what you will make: at #6 $15.00 at #5 $225.00 at #4 $3,375.00 at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00 at #1 $11,390,625.00 When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now! So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works? I think so... People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, every day, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. You just have to be honest. By the way, if you try to deceive people by posting the messages with your name in the list and not sending the money to the rest of the people already on the list, you will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that and he only made about $150.00, and that's after seven or eight weeks! Then he sent the 6 $1.00 bills, people added him to their lists, and in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. This is the fairest and most honest way I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing anything but our time! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future dollars. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everyone that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember that HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to make the money! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH. Please remember to declare your extra income. Thanks once again... =========================================================== ========== LEGAL? ? ? (Comments from Bob Novak who started this new version.) "People have asked me if this is really legal. Well, it is! You are using the Internet to advertise you business. What is that business? You are assembling a mailing list of people who are interested in home based computer and online business and methods of generating income at home. Remember that people send you a small fee to be added to your mailing list. It is legal. What will you do with your list of thousands of names? Compile all of them into a database and sell them as "Mailing Lists" on the internet in a similar manner, if you wish, and make more money. How do you think you get all the junk mail that you do? Credit card companies, mail order, Utilities, anyone you deal with through the mail can sell your name and address on a mailing list, unless you ask them not to, in addition to there regular business, So, why not do the same with the list you collect. You can find more info about "Mailing Lists" on the internet using any search engine. ." So, build your mailing list, keep good accounts, declare the income and pay your taxes. By doing this you prove your business intentions. Keep an eye on the newsgroups and when the cash has stopped coming (that means your name is no longer on the list), you just take the latest posting at the newsgroups, send another $6.00 to the names stated on the list, make your corrections (put your name at #6) and start posting again. =========================================================== NOTES: *1. In some countries, the export of the country's exchange is illegal. But you can get the license to do this from the post office, explaining the above statements (that you have an online business, etc. You may have to pay an extra tax, but that's OK, the amount of the incoming money is HUGE! And as I said, a few countries have that restriction. *2. You may want to buy mailing and e-mail lists for future dollars. (Or Database or Spreadsheet software.) *3. If you're really not sure or still think this can't be for real, please print a copy of this article and pass it along to someone who really needs the money, and see what happens. *4. You should start getting responses within 1-2 weeks.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <6hsluu$fgd$552@news.on> Control: cancel <6hsluu$fgd$552@news.on> Date: 25 Apr 1998 13:35:37 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6hsluu$fgd$552@news.on> Sender: a@b.c Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Many questions Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc Date: 25 Apr 1998 16:10:51 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6ht1ub$dt$3@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> References: <6hrpd8$1p4s$2@news.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: c641625@showme.missouri.edu NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC In <6hrpd8$1p4s$2@news.missouri.edu> "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" wrote: > I have several questions regarding both software and hardwares. Since there > might be some interaction between them. Therefore, I include all questions > and post them in 3 newsgroups, hope you don't mind. 1) you did not crosspost them correctly. To crosspost "correctly" put all the groups in ONE message separated by commas. This makes it easier for people who are using modern Usenet readers to see only one copy of it. Also if you do crosspost, set a Followups-To line. This is very easy using RadicalNews 2) You would be better off posting your software questions in 'csn.software' and your hardware questions in csn.hardware. That way the posts are smaller, easier to read, and entirely on topic for that group 3) Please do not crosspost to csn.misc. It is designed to be a group for questions that don't fit anywhere else, so if you post to csn.hardware then you shouldn't post to csn.misc > 1) This is the popular question but I can't find it in any FAQ, though.. > I'd like to connect my PC to the NeXT. I'm using 10BaseT interface to the > hub by RJ45 and I have BJ45 from NeXT to that hub. Well, my question is, > how can I make my PC sees NeXT and vice versa. Also, is it possible to > share the printers between two systems? Samba will allow you to share files and printers. See ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/apps/utils/networks/SambaManager.1.0.2.NIHS.b.tar.gz > 2) Since NeXT already have SCSI interface, what is the interfacing? I saw on > the back system looks like SCSI-2 but in the manual said it's SCSI(I assume > it's SCSI). In addition, there are some venders sell SCSI-2 to SCSI-1 > interface... If I have external SCSI-CD-ROM Drive, which is the SCSI-2.. > Can I use it with NeXT? If so, how can I do it??? I'd love to have my NeXT > talks to CD... It is SCSI-2 IIRC Yes you can connect another SCSI-2 device to it, or use a SCSI-2--SCSI-1 cable > 3) Do you think we can use ZIP driv(SCSI) with NeXT? Yes, many people do. See http://www.radical.com/TheHome/TheSolutions/RadicalSolution4.html for more > 4) I can't download any software and use it in NeXT. I download the > software on PC and copy them to NeXT (my NeXT doesn't have internet > connection and I don't want to since my PC is more > powerful-Pentium-II-400MHz). Most of them is .tar file. After I copied to > NeXT, it shows icon as TAR (that makes me happy for a while). But when I > click at it, it said that, I need to "unarchieve" by using tar command???? > Can't I double click it directly????? What should I do if I want to download > from my PC and transfer to NeXT???(This will be better if I can LAN my PC to > NeXT). The panel that comes up should offer to un-tar it for you. The best idea is to get Opener.app ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/apps/archiveutil/Opener.3.3.N.b.tar.gz Put that on your Dock (after ungzip and untar) and it will handle .tar and .tar.gz etc automatically (and a whole lot more!) > 5) What is the best -in your opinion- of Integrated Development Environment > (IDE) for NeXT? Where can I get it? No idea > 6) Is it possible to port my code to run on NeXT (and vice versa)? If it is regular C code, then yes. Some code looks for header files or kernel support not present in the NeXT, so that won't work, but much will > Thank you for the bandwidth and your time to read my questions(and answer my > questions). I'm sorry if those questions offend you if I post in the wrong > newsgroups. It doesn't offend me per se, but it would be nicer if they were posted just in the one appropriate newsgroup. Most people here read all the groups and they are not so busy that your post is likely to be unseen if you post it to just one group. TjL -- [Yes that is a valid mail address, until it gets spammed] Unofficial @Home FAQ: http://members.home.com/faqs/ Who decided we _wanted_ a Tarzan for the 90s? Or a new Love Boat, for that matter...
From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTSTEP on Sparc ? Date: 25 Apr 1998 17:53:50 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6ht7ve$dt$12@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> References: <6hq1va$hs$1@unlnews.unl.edu> <35410DA2.515B5FCC@rit.edu> <35416B4D.162E16FC@omniweb.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ojs@omniweb.net In <35416B4D.162E16FC@omniweb.net> "Oscar J. Shearer" wrote: > > > Jeff Sciortino wrote: > > > Openstep Solaris is no longer supported by Sun, but if you hunt around > > long enough, you can find a web site that has a download, and info > > including a screen shot. > > > > -Jeff > > How about a URL for example?? ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/peanuts/OpenStep/implementation/solaris/OpenStep.1.0/ But I don't see a screen shot. TjL -- [Yes that is a valid mail address, until it gets spammed] Unofficial @Home FAQ: http://members.home.com/faqs/ NeXTStep/OpenStep/Rhapsody Information & Software: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <23877892958423@digifix.com> Date: 26 Apr 1998 03:50:15 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <13743893563222@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: news@news.msfc.nasa.gov Message-ID: <cancel.35432f9d.0@194.214.162.66> Control: cancel <35432f9d.0@194.214.162.66> Subject: cmsg cancel <35432f9d.0@194.214.162.66> Organization: http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:12:44 GMT Sender: wdqqeioc@loadsamoney.com Make Money Fast post canceled by J. Porter Clark.
From: simon@fowarding.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: XXXPassword Free Date: 27 Apr 1998 14:46:48 GMT Organization: Free Password! Message-ID: <6i25oo$git@chatta.samart.co.th> References: idran-1127839490573@vixon.com If it expire , get password list go to this site http://205.147.208.53/link/index1.html Access Free 10,000 Pay Adult Site http://209.76.160.49/links.html password : 4908saturday http://xxx.kuki.co.jp/AVDO/OnDemand/ClipList/index.html login : tmpoowy9 password : 10nyg917 Enjoy! Passwords Man!
From: simon@fowarding.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: XXXPassword Free Date: 27 Apr 1998 14:46:51 GMT Organization: Free Password! Message-ID: <6i25or$git@chatta.samart.co.th> References: idran-1127839490573@vixon.com If it expire , get password list go to this site http://205.147.208.53/link/index1.html Access Free 10,000 Pay Adult Site http://209.76.160.49/links.html password : 4908saturday http://xxx.kuki.co.jp/AVDO/OnDemand/ClipList/index.html login : tmpoowy9 password : 10nyg917 Enjoy! Passwords Man!
From: "Gerardo Quinonez, M.D." <quinonez@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: boot to NS help Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:35:58 -0700 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <3545165E.D3ABFC60@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I lost my next boot sector by accident, after installing doze 95. Its actually corrupted, when I press N for next it gives me an upside down "U" and freezes on me. I need to reinstall the boot sector, but dont know how to do it without being able to access NSFIP. I have the full version of NSFIP3.3 with install disks cd etc, Can someone please helpme get a unix prompt with the install floppies? Thanks Please email directly. -- _____________________________________ G. Quinonez, MD <quinonez@earthlink.net> NeXTStep 3.3/Windoze NT 4.0 NeXTMail/SUNmail Welcome http://emf.net/~ihouse/Alumni-pages/quinonez/
From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: boot to NS help Date: 27 Apr 1998 21:11:33 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6i2sa5$jj$2@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> References: <3545165E.D3ABFC60@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: quinonez@earthlink.net See http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1470.htmld/1470.html As for getting there in the first place, I *think* that you can use fdisk under Win95 to set the OpenStep side as 'active' and then boot to it, issue the 'disk' command (see above webpage) and then go back to Win95 and change the active parition. I think that's it, but it has been awhile. TjL -- [Yes that is a valid mail address, until it gets spammed] Unofficial @Home FAQ: http://members.home.com/faqs/ NeXTStep/OpenStep/Rhapsody Information & Software: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/
From: Stanley Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:25:26 PDT Subject: My First Print Organization: Email Platinum v.3.1b Message-ID: <3544f793.1@news.mountain.net> I would like to invite you to view "HANGIN IT UP", a limited addition print of an original oil painting. You may visit this print at http://www.ovnet.com/~estanley/Working2.html
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3544f793.1@news.mountain.net> Control: cancel <3544f793.1@news.mountain.net> Date: 27 Apr 1998 22:46:08 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3544f793.1@news.mountain.net> Sender: Stanley Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6i25or$git@chatta.samart.co.th> Control: cancel <6i25or$git@chatta.samart.co.th> Date: 28 Apr 1998 04:07:03 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6i25or$git@chatta.samart.co.th> Sender: simon@fowarding.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6i25oo$git@chatta.samart.co.th> Control: cancel <6i25oo$git@chatta.samart.co.th> Date: 28 Apr 1998 04:06:54 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6i25oo$git@chatta.samart.co.th> Sender: simon@fowarding.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: rotten_eye@hotmail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Has anyone tried a CD-R with NS/OS/Rhapsody? And other ?'s Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:28:19 -0600 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6i3su2$lo0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> I have a few questions. I have a CD-R, and was wondering if there are any CD- R apps for NS/OS/Rhapsody that can enable me to write to cd's? Also, for work, we do video conferencing, and we use either CUSeeMe and NetMeeting-- anything for NS/OS/Rhapsody that is comparable to those two programs, instead of me having to reboot and choose NT? :) Also, anyone selling OPENSTEP? :) I apologize if this is in the wrong newsgroup, but I thought my questions might fit in to "misc" Also, please post replies if you're e-mailing me--maybe someone has the same question as me, but afraid to ask for fear of looking stupid ;-) P.S.--Is everyone sure they don't wanna trade?(Read my post from a few days ago in comp.sys.next.marketplace). I also have other things, you just have to inquire ;-) -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Control: cancel <35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Date: 15 Apr 1998 21:40:04 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35343ad0.0@193.15.242.210> Sender: CatherineW@email.unc.edu Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: abuse@mindspring.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: cmsg cancel <35e0edbf.104873059@news.mindspring.com> Date: 28 Apr 1998 16:08:18 GMT Control: cancel <35e0edbf.104873059@news.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <cancel.35e0edbf.104873059@news.mindspring.com> Sender: CyBorg@cyborg-systems.com (Cy Borg) Cancelled by abuse@mindspring.com
From: Mark de Does <M.de.Does@inter.nl.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenWrite Broken Under OpenStep 4.2 (->fix) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:04:05 +0200 Organization: NLnet Message-ID: <35463635.862A8F81@inter.nl.net> References: <6hqakg$4ci$1@news.cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eskandar Ensafi wrote: > Hi, > Ever since I installed OpenStep 4.2, the Spelling Checker in OpenWrite > 2.1.8 (last and latest version) no longer works properly (actually, it > doesn't work at all). > > Is there a workaround to this problem, or does this mean that I should > dump OpenWrite altogether? I submitted NextStep 3.3 spell checkers that work with OpenWrite to peanuts.leo.org last weekend. (Today is April 28, 1998 ) Within a few days, they should be available to the outside world. The previous versions were to be found as ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/NEXTSTEP/text/services/Ortho.* I assume that what I submitted this weekend will land in the same location. -- =============================================================================== Mark de Does, Donkerstraat 24, 3511 KA Utrecht, Holland, M.de.Does@inter.nl.net ===============================================================================
From: frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Has anyone tried a CD-R with NS/OS/Rhapsody? And other ?'s Date: 28 Apr 1998 20:13:44 GMT Organization: Frank's Area 51 Message-ID: <6i5d9o$923$2@news.seicom.net> References: <6i3su2$lo0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: rotten_eye@hotmail.com In <6i3su2$lo0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> rotten_eye@hotmail.com wrote: > I have a few questions. I have a CD-R, and was wondering if there are any CD- > R apps for NS/OS/Rhapsody that can enable me to write to cd's? Well there is CDDesigner (commercial), the combo AerePrennius/mkisofs (free) and for the hard core shell hackers cdwrite/mkisofs (free, see my web page in the download area). I heard that cdrecord (a command line burn program for several UNIXes, it supports a lot more writers than cdwrite) works too, never tried it myself however... -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net/~frank * NeXTSTEP, IRIX, Solaris, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy * "I have to go now, there are two men in white suits with a giant * butterfly net at my door..."
From: l.wit@NoSPAM-1115.aca.nl Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: startup problem Date: 29 Apr 1998 11:20:09 GMT Organization: Reference.Com Posting Service Message-ID: <6i72d9$2rj$1@orthanc.reference.com> Originator: panuser@reference.com () Dear NeXT community, I've got the following problem: Situation: Original black NeXT TurboColorstation. I modified my /etc/rc.local, and suspect this to be the cause of problems. On startup, I get the icons 'Testing system' and 'Loading from disk' (as usual). But, instead of the usual starting up of services etc., I get a small window (60x15) entitled "NeXT Mach Operating System", some text scrolls by very fast (can't catch this), and I'm left with a root shell. I've got an additional external harddisk of 1G besides the standard one (which is a bit more than 400M), but it doesn't appear to be mounted (I can access dirs/files of the internal disk, but not of the external one). df freaks out (it passes the first - header - line, but then gives an EMT trap). The root filesystem also is apparently mounted readonly (various commands indicate this). A "mount -a" also gives an EMT trap. Typing "exit" to the shell should startup the multi-user system: setting tape block size for /dev/nrst0 setting tape block size for /dev/nrst1 starting RPC & network services: portmap routed and the system becomes very quiet after a while... I cannot modify /etc/rc.local, since it's on a readonly mounted disk. Can I remount the internal disk read-write (and if so, how; my manual pages are on the external - inaccessible - disk)? Please help by sending email; I'll post a summary. TIA! Leo. P.S.: When replying, please remove [NoSPAM-1115.] from my email address for obvious reasons. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted using Reference.COM http://WWW.Reference.COM FREE Usenet and Mailing list archive, directory and clipping service --------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Mike West (WL7BQM" <wl7bqm@ptialaska.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help on Nextstep 3.1 installation Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:10:03 -0800 Organization: PTI Communications Message-ID: <6i562v$ebr$1@news.ptialaska.net> Hi there, I am trying to install NS3.1 but cannot install it. The problem is that NS3.1 will only accept 2 different SCSI cards. Is there anyway of getting a bootdisk with either a IDE interface or a Adaptec 152x SCSI driver? Thanks Don BTW: PLEASE REPLY to WL7NF@k2cc.sos.clarkson.edu . I am posting this from a friend.
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Help on Nextstep 3.1 installation Message-ID: <1998042913491600.JAA04920@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 29 Apr 1998 13:49:16 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6i562v$ebr$1@news.ptialaska.net> No. NeXT completely changed the driver model for 3.2 and later and the paucity of drivers for NS 3.1 for Intel was one of the major reasons for its low acceptance in the marketplace. You should get 3.2 or later, but keep the older CD-ROM because it has software on it which was dropped, i.e. Quotations.app, etc. which I at least, find essential. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email,comp.sys.next.misc From: Russell Schulz <Russell_Schulz@locutus.ofB.ORG> Subject: NeXTSTEPs.com spam (was Re: Spam from 207.204.171.*) Message-ID: <19980428.153214.3x7.rnr.w164w_-_@locutus.ofB.ORG> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:32:14 +0100 References: <va71389-ya02408000R2404981735530001@news.tu.hac.com> <thesting-ya02408000R2504980807390001@news.atl.bellsouth.net> Organization: Private System, London SW19, UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: rnr/2.40 thesting@hotmail.com (smiley) writes: > Mail-Copies-To: Never I'd recommend the all-lowercase until the real RFC comes out (though I would personally hope software would treat it the same as `never'). > Here is where the messages cam from: > > Next Step Internet (NEXTSTEPS-DOM) > 124 East Sheridan Suite 200 > Oklahoma City, OK 73104 > > Domain Name: NEXTSTEPS.COM is that legal? should Apple be concerned? -- Russell_Schulz@locutus.ofB.ORG Shad 86c
From: Wotring Brian J <bjw5371@usl.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Iomega Zip Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:08:28 -0500 Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana Message-ID: <35492E9C.6437@usl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can the IDE Iomega Zip drives be used with Mach 4.2 ? -- | Brian Wotring | bj@denalisites.com | NeXTMail welcome
From: gq@typhus.earthlink.net (Gerardo Quinonez, M.D.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: boot to NS help Date: 1 May 1998 23:51:40 GMT Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <6idn6c$bgp@suriname.earthlink.net> References: <3545165E.D3ABFC60@earthlink.net> <6i2sa5$jj$2@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org In <6i2sa5$jj$2@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> Timothy Luoma wrote: > > See http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1470.htmld/1470.html > > As for getting there in the first place, I *think* that you can use fdisk > under Win95 to set the OpenStep side as 'active' and then boot to it, issue > the 'disk' command (see above webpage) and then go back to Win95 and change > the active parition. > > I think that's it, but it has been awhile. > > TjL > Thanks for your help Tim -- _____________________________________________ G. Quinonez, MD <quinonez@earthlink.net> NeXTStep 3.3/Windoze NT 4.0 NeXTMail/SunMail Welcome http://emf.net/~ihouse/Alumni-pages/quinonez/
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <658953997223.3128843808@hk.super.net> Control: cancel <658953997223.3128843808@hk.super.net> Date: 02 May 1998 00:44:18 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.658953997223.3128843808@hk.super.net> Sender: internetmarketing@hk.super.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: t=*ryan@tensor.com (Ryan Dingman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Iomega Zip Date: 2 May 1998 06:31:06 GMT Organization: Ball State University Message-ID: <6ieeja$bic@wizard.bsu.edu> References: <35492E9C.6437@usl.edu> Wotring Brian J <bjw5371@usl.edu> wrote: >Can the IDE Iomega Zip drives be used with Mach 4.2 ? >-- > > | Brian Wotring | bj@denalisites.com | NeXTMail welcome Yes, if it is a SCSI zip drive. I use mine all the time in OPENSTEP 4.2 ryan ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ryan Dingman Software Engineer Tensor Information Systems, Inc. ryan@tensor.com NeXTMail and MIME ok
From: Michael Segel <Mikey@NOSPAM.King.of.mydomain.MAPSON.Segel.com> Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.email,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTSTEPs.com spam (was Re: Spam from 207.204.171.*) Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:46:31 -0500 Organization: Home for Retired Cafiene Powered Hackers Message-ID: <354BA246.B7BE5C8C@NOSPAM.King.of.mydomain.MAPSON.Segel.com> References: <va71389-ya02408000R2404981735530001@news.tu.hac.com> <thesting-ya02408000R2504980807390001@news.atl.bellsouth.net> <19980428.153214.3x7.rnr.w164w_-_@locutus.ofB.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Legal? No. Cause for concern? No. Steve has some good lawyers. Russell Schulz wrote: > thesting@hotmail.com (smiley) writes: > > > Mail-Copies-To: Never > > I'd recommend the all-lowercase until the real RFC comes out (though > I would personally hope software would treat it the same as `never'). > > > Here is where the messages cam from: > > > > Next Step Internet (NEXTSTEPS-DOM) > > 124 East Sheridan Suite 200 > > Oklahoma City, OK 73104 > > > > Domain Name: NEXTSTEPS.COM > > is that legal? should Apple be concerned? > -- > Russell_Schulz@locutus.ofB.ORG Shad 86c
From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Iomega Zip Date: 2 May 1998 14:11:38 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6if9iq$51s$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> References: <35492E9C.6437@usl.edu> <6ieeja$bic@wizard.bsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian J Wotring <bjw5371@usl.edu> wrote: Can the IDE Iomega Zip drives be used with Mach 4.2 ? ^^^ Ryan Dingman wrote: Yes, if it is a SCSI zip drive. I use mine all the time in OPENSTEP 4.2 ^^^^ I think that's the point of Brian's question, is whether the IDE version will work. I can't recall hearing anything one way or the other, actually. TjL -- <a href='http://opaldata.com/the_end/index.html'> And you thought the Internet would never end</a> Unix Tip #4872: giving a process a lower priority gets it done faster SEE ALSO: nice(1), renice(8)
From: t=*ryan@tensor.com (Ryan Dingman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Iomega Zip Date: 2 May 1998 16:22:54 GMT Organization: Ball State University Message-ID: <6ifh8u$n9o@wizard.bsu.edu> References: <35492E9C.6437@usl.edu> <6ieeja$bic@wizard.bsu.edu> <6if9iq$51s$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> > Brian J Wotring <bjw5371@usl.edu> wrote: > Can the IDE Iomega Zip drives be used with Mach 4.2 ? > ^^^ > > Ryan Dingman wrote: > Yes, if it is a SCSI zip drive. I use mine all the time in OPENSTEP >I think that's the point of Brian's question, is whether the IDE version will >work. > >I can't recall hearing anything one way or the other, actually. > >TjL > My bad. I need to stop posting so late at night when I can't read :). I don't recall hearing anything about IDE zip's either. ryan
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <13743893563222@digifix.com> Date: 3 May 1998 03:50:06 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <14190894168021@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6ih2fo$aob$6723@trader.ipf.de> Control: cancel <6ih2fo$aob$6723@trader.ipf.de> Date: 03 May 1998 06:24:24 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6ih2fo$aob$6723@trader.ipf.de> Sender: catrina cillone<catf@aimnet.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ~/Library/Addresses Date: 3 May 1998 05:06:28 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6igu0k$cap$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've never really used that. What it is used for? How do I make entries? Any way to index and search them? Any neat things about it that I'm missing? I assume it is just a rolodex of sorts? TjL -- <a href='http://opaldata.com/the_end/index.html'> And you thought the Internet would never end</a> Unix Tip #4872: giving a process a lower priority gets it done faster SEE ALSO: nice(1), renice(8)
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ~/Library/Addresses Date: 3 May 1998 05:30:36 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <6igvds$bfd$2@news.xmission.com> References: <6igu0k$cap$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) wrote: > I've never really used that. > > What it is used for? Storing addresses and phone numbers of your friends, family, colleagues, and cohorts. > How do I make entries? Double click a .addresses file and have fun. There should be an Examples.addresses file to play with. Command-n makes a new entry, and it works pretty much like a WorkSpace browser works. The contents inspector gives the deatils for each person, which you can edit in the inspector. > Any way to index and search them? Dunno. Never tried that. Never had enough addresses in there that I needed that functionality... :-/ > Any neat things about it that I'm missing? I assume it is just a > rolodex of sorts? Yeah. I like it and use it for basic things, but in all honesty, it is a pretty limited thing and someday I expect there will be a third party app that has a lot more features. SBook was, in some ways, that app. But I never liked SBook all that much myself...nor could I afford it way back when, anyway, so .addresses was good enough. :-) -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: schaub@tamu.edu (Hanspeter Schaub) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ~/Library/Addresses Date: 3 May 1998 14:32:02 GMT Organization: Texas A&M University Message-ID: <6ihv52$bgd$1@news.tamu.edu> References: <6igu0k$cap$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> <6igvds$bfd$2@news.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 May 1998 14:32:02 GMT Try using Phone.app. It is a third party front end to either the NeXT *.addresses folder or to a plain text address database. It is small, but very useful. Also, it has a very fast dynamic search algorithm that searches through the entries as you type. Worth looking at. HP
From: Paul Buckley <pb141@columbia.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ~/Library/Addresses Date: 3 May 1998 18:17:39 GMT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6iicc3$pb$1@news6.ispnews.com> References: <6igu0k$cap$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> <6igvds$bfd$2@news.xmission.com> <6ihv52$bgd$1@news.tamu.edu> In-Reply-To: <6ihv52$bgd$1@news.tamu.edu> On 05/03/98, Hanspeter Schaub wrote: >Try using Phone.app. It is a third party front end to either the NeXT *.addresses folder or to a plain text address database. It is small, but very useful. Also, it has a very fast dynamic search algorithm that searches through the entries as you type. Worth looking at. > >HP > > Similarly, OlafAM uses ~/Library/Addresses/*.addresses to keep track of phone, fax, and email. It also has a dynamic search feature.
From: boehring@biomed.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Daniel Boehringer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ~/Library/Addresses Date: 4 May 1998 11:53:13 GMT Organization: Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Rechenzentrum Message-ID: <6ika79$hfd$1@sun579.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6igu0k$cap$1@ha2.rdc1.nj.home.com> <6igvds$bfd$2@news.xmission.com> >Double click a .addresses file and have fun. There should be an >Examples.addresses file to play with. Command-n makes a new entry, and it >works pretty much like a WorkSpace browser works. The contents inspector >gives the deatils for each person, which you can edit in the inspector. > >> Any way to index and search them? > >Dunno. Never tried that. Never had enough addresses in there that I needed >that functionality... :-/ the Workspace.app find panel operates on .addresses files. >> Any neat things about it that I'm missing? I assume it is just a >> rolodex of sorts? rtf generation with user supplyable template; integration into printpanel (fax numbers). btw: WM.app has a Speaker/Listener api for address access and modification from third party apps (but no drag and drop support )-: though.).
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <354f794e.0@news.wgn.net> Control: cancel <354f794e.0@news.wgn.net> Date: 05 May 1998 20:41:10 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.354f794e.0@news.wgn.net> Sender: James Deyo <"deyo@deyo"@mail.wgn.net> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: s9700212@llandrillo.ac.uk Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: WTB: OLD UNIX WORKSTATIONS Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 04:53:56 -0600 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6ipbvj$up9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Wanted by Computer Studies student/Computer collector/Unix fan: Any old Unixworkstations(HP, Sun, SGI, etc.) working or not. Also software/manuals/information wanted for old Unix based computers. As I am a student I can't pay much for these computers or parts, I would be especialy grateful for any machines that you are giving away (I will pay postage). For machines that I am especialy interested in I will pay what I can (I would love to own a NEXT cube or a nice SPARCstation). I will get use any machines that I am given, I love messing about with UNIX and getting old hardware up and running. I am learning a lot from using these machines. Isn't it better that I should get that old workstation and have some educational fun with it, rather than it going in the trash! Plus you get a bit of money back for your old computer. Thanks in advance. ps: I am situated in the UK however I may be willing to pay shipping for machines in other countries. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: boehring@biomed.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Daniel Boehringer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cddb compliant cdplayer app -- anywhere? Date: 9 May 1998 08:24:01 GMT Organization: Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Rechenzentrum Message-ID: <6j13r1$kj1$1@sun579.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> is there a cddb (http://www.cddb.com) compliant audio-cd player available under NS/OS? alternatively: is source code of a player (OmniCD?) available for retrofitting this functionality? daniel
From: gq@typhus.earthlink.net (Gerardo Quinonez, M.D.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: test Date: 9 May 1998 19:03:14 GMT Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <6j299i$oe1@argentina.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit testing -- _____________________________________________ G. Quinonez, MD <quinonez@earthlink.net> NeXTStep 3.3/Windoze NT 4.0 NeXTMail/SunMail Welcome http://emf.net/~ihouse/Alumni-pages/quinonez/
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <14190894168021@digifix.com> Date: 10 May 1998 03:49:44 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <1562894772821@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: feelfree@ppp.kornet.nm.kr (Seungjoo Lee) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: I have a problem for using MO drive Date: 10 May 1998 13:54:47 GMT Organization: Korea Telecom Message-ID: <6j4bj7$epb$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keywords: MO I can't use MITSUBISHI MO 230MB drive for external with NEXTSTEP 3.3. My SCSI card is the Adaptec AIC-7870 and my MO drive is MK230L. Is there anyone who use this drive with NEXTSTEP 3.3? -- Seung-joo Lee mailto : feelfree@ppp.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTMail OK!)
From: Gregory Gee <ggee@playground.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Need boot floppy??? Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 20:14:30 -0400 Organization: playground.net Message-ID: <3554F166.1355FCE3@playground.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if someone could tell how I can make an install floppy. I have to reinstall my NS3.3 and I can't find my boot/install floppy. Could someone tell me how to create a boot/install floppy. Is there floppy images on the CD??? Thanks, Greg. ggee@playground.net
From: <paw@mcmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: CHEQUES CASHED Message-ID: <35562e3c.1@news1.mcmail.com> Date: 10 May 1998 23:46:20 GMT CHEQUES CASHED: Rates from 3.25% including "Not Neg" & "Account Payee Only". If you require a cheque cashing and do not wish to use a bank account, please call us today. Totally discreet,efficient & confidential service. Tel 07970 622645 or E-mail paw@mcmail.com for info. (UK ONLY SORRY).
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35562e3c.1@news1.mcmail.com> Control: cancel <35562e3c.1@news1.mcmail.com> Date: 10 May 1998 22:46:25 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35562e3c.1@news1.mcmail.com> Sender: <paw@mcmail.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: cmsg cancel <6j82dn$9ad$112@news.on> Control: cancel <6j82dn$9ad$112@news.on> Date: 11 May 1998 23:43:14 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6j82dn$9ad$112@news.on> Sender: FAST CASH @fgdfg.asdf Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc.32k Subject: cmsg cancel <6jba7m$ler$435@kemer.cc.metu.edu.tr> ignore no reply Control: cancel <6jba7m$ler$435@kemer.cc.metu.edu.tr> Message-ID: <cancel.6jba7m$ler$435@kemer.cc.metu.edu.tr> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:44:25 +0000 Sender: pcd@north-cyprus.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - multiposted binary files BI=1179.5/1 SPAM ID=cSEEPtkOIrp0mAJ88cXl8A==
From: c_ismora@hotmail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Transfer HD from B&W to color slab? Date: 13 May 1998 08:29:29 GMT Organization: Reference.Com Posting Service Message-ID: <6jbll9$plc$1@orthanc.reference.com> Cc: c_ismora@hotmail.com Originator: panuser@reference.com () Hello all kind NeXT users, here is my question: suppose that I have a running 040 mono NeXTstation, and that I am going to buy an used NeXTstation Color. Can I unplug the internal hard disk from the mono slab, plug it in the color slab, and then press the power on button and see things boot ok, in the same way but in color ? The underlying technical question is that on some systems, the kernel has to be recompiled/reinstalled to manage a different display type. Does this apply to NeXTStep ? Thanks for help, Charles. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted using Reference.COM http://WWW.Reference.COM FREE Usenet and Mailing list archive, directory and clipping service --------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Transfer HD from B&W to color slab? Date: 13 May 1998 10:01:16 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Message-ID: <6jbr1c$e7d$2@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <6jbll9$plc$1@orthanc.reference.com> c_ismora@hotmail.com wrote: >here is my question: suppose that I have a running 040 mono >NeXTstation, and that I am going to buy an used NeXTstation >Color. > >Can I unplug the internal hard disk from the mono slab, plug >it in the color slab, and then press the power on button >and see things boot ok, in the same way but in color ? Yes. Been there, done that. Works just fine. Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Transfer HD from B&W to color slab? Date: 14 May 1998 01:12:17 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6jdgdh$jpv$2@news.idiom.com> References: <6jbll9$plc$1@orthanc.reference.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: c_ismora@hotmail.com c_ismora@hotmail.com may or may not have said: -> -> Hello all kind NeXT users, -> -> here is my question: suppose that I have a running 040 mono -> NeXTstation, and that I am going to buy an used NeXTstation -> Color. -> -> Can I unplug the internal hard disk from the mono slab, plug -> it in the color slab, and then press the power on button -> and see things boot ok, in the same way but in color ? Yes. -> The underlying technical question is that on some systems, -> the kernel has to be recompiled/reinstalled to manage a -> different display type. Does this apply to NeXTStep ? No. -> Thanks for help, Anytime. -jcr
From: ginz1@juno.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Need boot floppy??? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:45:48 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <6jdpea$np8$2@eve.enteract.com> References: <3554F166.1355FCE3@playground.net> <6jdp9a$np8$1@eve.enteract.com> http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1921.htmld/1921.html This also might be useful to you. ginz1@juno.com wrote: >http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1886.htmld/1886.html >This is were you can find a disk image of a boot floppy for 3.3 >Hope this is what you wanted? >ginz... >Gregory Gee <ggee@playground.net> wrote: >>I was wondering if someone could tell how I can make >>an install floppy. I have to reinstall my NS3.3 and I can't >>find my boot/install floppy. Could someone tell me how >>to create a boot/install floppy. Is there floppy images on >>the CD??? >>Thanks, >>Greg. >>ggee@playground.net
From: ginz1@juno.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Need boot floppy??? Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:43:08 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <6jdp9a$np8$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3554F166.1355FCE3@playground.net> http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1886.htmld/1886.html This is were you can find a disk image of a boot floppy for 3.3 Hope this is what you wanted? ginz... Gregory Gee <ggee@playground.net> wrote: >I was wondering if someone could tell how I can make >an install floppy. I have to reinstall my NS3.3 and I can't >find my boot/install floppy. Could someone tell me how >to create a boot/install floppy. Is there floppy images on >the CD??? >Thanks, >Greg. >ggee@playground.net
From: "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Noisy harddrive Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:32:33 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6jgcsp$o54$1@news.missouri.edu> Dear lady and gentleman. I just replace my harddrive with Seagate ST15230N 4GB (Thanks Sam at Spherical for his "BIG" help). Currently, the harddrive with OPENSTEP4.2 works fine.. but the problem is its noise. I don't know it's because my harddrive or NeXT case. But the noise is too loud.. I used to use this drive in my PC and one old indy... they worked fine... yeah... some noise but not as loud as I heard from NeXT.. anyone use the "big" harddrive having "loud" noise??? Any comment, suggestion and observation are welcome. Thank you very much :) Your Sincerely, -- Sarawoot Chittratanawat c641625@showme.missouri.edu
From: pitakc@ee.pdx.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Nextstep 3.3 or Openstep 4.2 for MACH on Thinkpad 770 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 05:15:33 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6jgj1m$ls3$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hello, Is there anybody who successfully installed either Nextstep 3.3 or Openstep 4.2 for MACH on an IBM Thinkpad 770 ? Can you get the 1024x768 resolution at 16 bit color depth to work reliably ? Any info. or tips on HOW-TO install either version of the OS'es above will be greatly appreciated. Regards, PC -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6jgk50$aot@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <6jgk50$aot@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Date: 15 May 1998 05:34:26 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6jgk50$aot@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Sender: !!Win@3DFX_Board.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: news@news.msfc.nasa.gov Message-ID: <cancel.6jgijv$av9@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <6jgijv$av9@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> Subject: cmsg cancel <6jgijv$av9@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> Organization: http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 05:08:17 GMT Sender: P.M.Z.<PMZ@EARTHONLINE.NET> Make Money Fast post canceled by J. Porter Clark.
From: aa158@valleynet.on.ca Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:20:38 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> See http://www.macintouch.com/m10imaging.html Richard -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: nurban@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (Nathan Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 11:40:29 -0400 Organization: Data Systems Consulting, Inc. Message-ID: <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> In article <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, aa158@valleynet.on.ca wrote: > See > http://www.macintouch.com/m10imaging.html This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able to run apps remotely?? I wonder how technically difficult it would be for them to somehow add this later..
From: "Rudolf B. Blazek" <blazek@stt.msu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:49:44 -0400 Organization: Michigan State University Sender: blazek@entropy6 Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.980515123216.1898A-100000@entropy6> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> On Fri, 15 May 1998, Henry McGilton wrote: > some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, I'm not > concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out > of business. But it could drive me out of Rhapsody / MacOS X. Rudy --- Rudolf Blazek blazek@stt.msu.edu Michigan State University (NeXTmail, Sun, MIME compatible) Statistics and Probability http://www.stt.msu.edu/~blazek
From: nurban@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (Nathan Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 13:52:53 -0400 Organization: Data Systems Consulting, Inc. Message-ID: <6jhvdl$aq7$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> In article <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com>, Henry McGilton <henry@trilithon.com> wrote: > Nathan Urban wrote: > * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense > * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able > * to run apps remotely?? > Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised > viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications > such as Mathematica et al. Not at all. There are still plenty of advantages to be able to run an application remotely! > But I don't believe it's "bad" > in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine > percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if > it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained > it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. I disagree. Businesses and academia especially are becoming increasingly aware of network-centric computing. > From the viewpoint of hardware and software sales, NXHosting > won't have any effect. Yes, it's not a deciding factor given all the other advantages/disadvantages of the OS, especially because Windows doesn't have it either, but it's still a major loss. > As for me, I'm not > concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out > of business. Well, I'm not either since it obviously hasn't driven Microsoft out of business, but that doesn't mean that its lack isn't a very bad thing!
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 17:19:34 GMT Organization: Cygnus Solutions Message-ID: <6jhtf6$n53$1@cronkite.cygnus.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: henry@trilithon.com In <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Henry McGilton wrote: > Nathan Urban wrote: > > * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense > * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able > * to run apps remotely?? > > Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised > viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications > such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" > in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine > percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if > it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained > it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. > > From the viewpoint of hardware and software sales, NXHosting > won't have any effect. Bit of a drag for those who *really* > need the feature. I'm sure that somebody will come up with > some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, I'm not > concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out > of business. > I think you're wrong about it not costing them anything. Within the sales of the single box home user market, sure it wont cost Apple any sales. But that's not their only market. They sell to educational markets, which use networks a lot. They want to sell more to businesses, which also use networks alot. One very useful thing about being able to remotely run apps is that you can sink lots of money into a single group of fast compute servers which then display back to cheaper workstations. In a sense, this is the concept of the Xterminal, the NC, and environments like what the nMac sounds like it will be targetet at. For example, a 486/100 can run Openstep for Mach just fine.. it's a little slow for a lot of things, but it can run it. If you have a gaggle of 486/100's, and Rhapsody will run on a 486 or low end Pentium, why not keep those boxes and run Rhapsody on them? Then, once they're available with Rhapsody on them, buy a big multiprocessing PPC box as your CPU farm. You run applications on the big box, and your workspace manager and display work all go on the low end box. And it doesn't necessarly have to be just a solution for cheap end machine networks. Any network in which there is a high performance central system that has the yellow box on it, and upon which you must do some of your work, can take advantage of this. If you can't remotely display your work, then you would have to do all of your work via the shell.... is THAT what Apple wants to promote!? "Buy Rhapsody so you can do small stuff in an advanced GUI environment, and do real work via a CLI!" -- somehow that strikes me as decidedly un-Macintosh (though, until now, that is ofcourse how you've HAD to do things if your end machine was a Mac). Basically, any customer who is buying Rhapsody/MacOSX for a network is going to see this datum and lower their percieved value of the platform by a notch. And that _WILL_ cost them sales. Sure, it's hard to do it via Win32.. but Apple isn't the monopoly here.. MS can get away with it becuase they're the dominant provider. Apple has to be better than MS at every turn, or they'll loose sales to MS solutions. Cutting a feature like this is just one more of those things that removes an incentive to "think differently", and play it safe by buying what everyone else buys. The only way getting rid of NXHosting makes sense is if they're replacing it with a better, more transparent, mechanism of opening an application on a remote host and/or displaying an application remotely. But, like the Newton, I bet they haven't announced a replacement before killing the current mechanism. -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com http://www.cygnus.com/~jrudd Intel: Putting \"I want a pair of Daisy Eagle semi-auto paintball pistols the backward in \in shoulder rigs. Who cares if you win the game as long backward compatible\as you can John Woo as you dive over obstacles?" - anon
From: Henry McGilton <henry@trilithon.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:12:25 -0700 Organization: Trilithon Research and Trading Message-ID: <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nathan Urban wrote: * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able * to run apps remotely?? Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. From the viewpoint of hardware and software sales, NXHosting won't have any effect. Bit of a drag for those who *really* need the feature. I'm sure that somebody will come up with some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, I'm not concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out of business. ........ Henry ============================================================= Henry McGilton | Trilithon Software, and, Boulevardier, Java Composer | Pacific Research and Trading -----------------------------+------------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com =============================================================
From: "FJ van Wingerde" <fj@medg.lcs.mit.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 98 14:08:56 +0000 Organization: Harvard University University Information Systems Message-ID: <B181FD02-12DA385@134.174.31.187> References: <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.harvard.edu/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.harvard.edu/comp.sys.next.software On Fri, May 15, 1998 4:12 PM, Henry McGilton <mailto:henry@trilithon.com> wrote: >Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised >viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications >such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" >in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine >percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if >it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained >it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. I don't think that the ignorance of the past is a compelling justification to cripple the future. And although I have no hard data, I could imagine that for certain large scale accounts, accounts that are managed by a technically savvy committee inside a business, accounts that would benefit inmensly from a robust networked OS, NXHosting would make a lot of sense. As a technically savvy user, I do feel this is a loss, even knowing the security probs that NXHosting has. Anyone who has enjoyed the mix'n'match'n'run capabilities of X11, where big binaries could be run on big machines while outputting to the desktop, even from another continent, would be dismayed at seeing NXHosting go. FJ!!
From: jklein@ivy.hampshire.edu (jonathan klein) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Date: 15 May 98 19:33:34 GMT Message-ID: <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Henry McGilton (henry@trilithon.com) wrote: : Nathan Urban wrote: : * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense : * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able : * to run apps remotely?? : Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised : viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications : such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" : in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine : percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if : it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained : it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. Think of the schools and businesses with hundreds or thousands of computers and the two or three administrators who have to manage all the machines. When the time comes to make a proposal to buy new machines, there would be a *really* strong argument in favor of machines that can be fully managed remotely and can run all of the applications that normal users need to run. -- -jon klein, jklein@ivy.hampshire.edu NeXTmail welcome
From: tsui@cs.indiana.edu (Yufeng Tsui) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 14:37:08 -0500 Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University Message-ID: <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> In article <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30>, jonathan klein <jklein@ivy.hampshire.edu> wrote: >Henry McGilton (henry@trilithon.com) wrote: >: Nathan Urban wrote: > >: * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense >: * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able >: * to run apps remotely?? > >: Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised >: viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications >: such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" >: in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine >: percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if >: it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained >: it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. > >Think of the schools and businesses with hundreds or thousands of >computers and the two or three administrators who have to manage >all the machines. > >When the time comes to make a proposal to buy new machines, there would >be a *really* strong argument in favor of machines that can be fully >managed remotely and can run all of the applications that normal users >need to run. > Killing NXHosting is, IMHO, a bad thing. You no longer get it for free. Maybe someone can write anapplication to do this, like screencast or PC Anywhere. And then you can manage all your stuff remotely. Maybe someone third party has already started this??? --yufeng
From: Brian Vito <bvito@tiac.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Installing PPP on OS 4.2 Mach... Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:06:40 -0400 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <355CA050.D09155ED@tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just bought a copy of OPENSTEP/Mach 4.2 and thought that it was supposed to come with PPP. I can't seem to fing PPP anywhere on the HD or on the CD. How do I install PPP (and TCP/IP)? Also, where's NeXTMail? Thanks so much. -- "We may only have 10 percent of the market, but quite clearly it's the top 10 percent." - Apple Computer, and they're quite right.
From: chris@vespucci.advicom.net (Chris Fisher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: "Mirroring" portions of screen to other NeXTs? Date: 15 May 1998 13:35:27 -0500 Organization: interQuest Online Services -- Huntsville, AL Distribution: world Message-ID: <6ji1tf$aof@vespucci.advicom.net> Is there an app akin to screenscape that allows me to send a fixed portion of one display into a window on another? chris -- Current Addictions: Drpepper, Chronotrigger, The Daily Show NeXTstep/*BSD*/Solaris/SunOS/Linux/OSF/Ultrix/OS2/WinNTi/VSTa/SCO/etc...
From: frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 21:03:07 GMT Organization: Frank's Area 51 Message-ID: <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: tsui@cs.indiana.edu In <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> Yufeng Tsui wrote: > Killing NXHosting is, IMHO, a bad thing. You no longer get it for free. > Maybe someone can write anapplication to do this, like screencast or > PC Anywhere. And then you can manage all your stuff remotely. Maybe > someone third party has already started this??? VNC (see http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc ) could be ported if enough interest is there. -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net/~frank * NeXTSTEP, IRIX, Solaris, Linux, BeOS, PDF & PostScript Wizard * "The answer is vi, what was your question...?"
From: "Michael J. Peck" <mjpeck@nstar.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:47:25 -0500 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <355CC5FD.CF057A71@nstar.net> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henry McGilton wrote: [cut] > From the viewpoint of hardware and software sales, NXHosting > won't have any effect. Bit of a drag for those who *really* > need the feature. I'm sure that somebody will come up with > some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, I'm not > concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out > of business. I have to disagree with this, Henry. I see uses for remotability every day, both at home and at work. I develop my current application for work on an HP-UX workstation, with all of its associated libraries, data files, and other install accessories. When I need to demo the app for my boss or other management, I can remotely display it on any Windows PC or UNIX workstation in the building very easily. I also have to take my turn at administering test servers every month, and if I had to sit in the freezing-cold server room the whole time I would rapidly go mixed-nuts. It's a real joy to be able to work from my desktop, alongside my normal work, without setting foot outside my office, and run all of the graphical apps I need to use for administration purposes. The downfall of this is that the X protocol is *heavy* and slow. I was told by several people here many moons ago that NXHosting is capable of usable and responsive remoting over a 2B+D ISDN line. That is something the X protocol cannot do, and if NXHosting really is dead, I think it's a huge loss for Rhapsody. I can't really blame management, though; I'm sure the recent changes to imaging made it impossible (difficult) to do otherwise. MJP
From: "Michael J. Peck" <mjpeck@nstar.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:51:16 -0500 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank M. Siegert wrote: [cut] > VNC (see http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc ) could be ported if enough interest is > there. I don't really think VNC is a viable solution. VNC simply takes a picture of the current framebuffer and sends it over the wire with your choice of compression. Unlike a real remotability protocol, e.g. X, it's inefficient and barely-usable over anything less than 10Mbps Ethernet. MJP "Far as I know, e.g. mean for example." "I.e., e.g., f*** you." -- Get Shorty
From: frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 23:28:09 GMT Organization: Frank's Area 51 Message-ID: <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: mjpeck@nstar.net In <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> "Michael J. Peck" wrote: > Frank M. Siegert wrote: > > [cut] > > > VNC (see http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc ) could be ported if enough interest is > > there. > > I don't really think VNC is a viable solution. VNC simply takes a > picture of the current framebuffer and sends it over the wire with your > choice of compression. Unlike a real remotability protocol, e.g. X, it's > inefficient and barely-usable over anything less than 10Mbps Ethernet. True, but NXHost'ing over a slow line can be quite challenging too, beside VNC is only slow for Windows because of the braindead way it draws to the framebuffer. VNC server on X11 and client on X11 or Windows does not feel sluggish (at least over a 10Mbps Ethernet :-)). And using a hypothetically ported VNC one could provide access to a Rhapsody (or OS/NS) box from a Windows box thus infiltrating the mindset of the enemy :-)... Oh, excuse me, there are no enemies left anymore, we are all good friends now. How boring... -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net/~frank * NeXTSTEP, IRIX, Solaris, Linux, BeOS, PDF & PostScript Wizard * "The answer is vi, what was your question...?"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software From: volker@abulafia.in-berlin.de (Volker Safran) Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-ID: <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> Sender: volker@abulafia.in-berlin.de (Volker Safran) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: henry@trilithon.com Organization: Volker Safran, Berlin, Germany References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:53:37 GMT In <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Henry McGilton wrote: > Nathan Urban wrote: > > * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense > * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able > * to run apps remotely?? > > Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised > viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications > such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" > in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine > percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if > it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained > it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. > > From the viewpoint of hardware and software sales, NXHosting > won't have any effect. Bit of a drag for those who *really* > need the feature. I'm sure that somebody will come up with > some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, I'm not > concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out > of business. I kept quiet reading all this rumours about Mac OS X wether it will be the death of YB and so on. As a summary, I had the impression, that they are doing their job not this bad; keeping the advantages of YB and Rhapsody and giving old Mac OS Users and Developers a way to keep their face (and their products). But there are two points, that make me nervous about the future of Rhapsody. The information about killing the possibility to remote display applications is the hardest news at all. I hope, it is only a rumor. I'm the administrator of a 200 machines OPENSTEP network and I have to fight hard against all windows guys. The best argument against it always was the argument of support cost. One big point of this is the possibility to f.e. become a different user on a different machine and remote display, what is going on on his side without walking dozens of kilometers around all the time (like $MS admins do). Apple always argued with TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). They should not shoot theirselves into their knees. Throwing out everything, we can do better than $MS and trying to make the same bullshit "better" or "MAC-like" is the worst thing they can do. Apple beware: Remote displaying is one of the major arguments for big network installations, educational or commercial. If the background of this plan is giving up DPS - this would be bad enough - you have to find another (good) way to do something like NXHosting. The second point is the future of platform independance. All the week there was no statement about Rhapsody for Intel or Mac OS X for Intel. I have only PCs and I am not very glad with them, but it is absolutely not realistic, that ANY company will throw out all PCs at once and replace them with MACs. If this is Apples strategy, they will have many customers less including us. > ........ Henry CIAO Volker -- Volker Safran, Berlin, Germany ___________________________________ --- / Phone: +49 30 69041523 (private) volker@abulafia.in-berlin.de / +49 30 45058062 (at work) vsafran@ukrv.de (at work) / FAX : +49 30 69041524 (private) ______________________________/ +49 30 45058904 (at work)
From: Matthew Cromer <matthew_cromer@iname.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 16 May 1998 02:57:18 GMT Organization: NETworthy Inc. Distribution: world Message-ID: <6jivae$1ju$1@camel19.mindspring.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> Michael J. Peck, mjpeck@nstar.net writes: >I don't really think VNC is a viable solution. VNC simply takes a >picture of the current framebuffer and sends it over the wire with your >choice of compression. Unlike a real remotability protocol, e.g. X, it's >inefficient and barely-usable over anything less than 10Mbps Ethernet. > >MJP Timbuktu software works fine even over a 28.8 connection. The problem is, NXHosting lets you host multiple client sessions off of a single computer. Nothing like that with Timbuktu or PCAnywhere. Dammit, this needs to be put back into place ASAP. Matthew Cromer
Message-ID: <355D25A7.F4617E84@unet.univie.ac.at> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 07:35:35 +0200 From: Christian Benesch <a9226931@unet.univie.ac.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> <6jivae$1ju$1@camel19.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just curious: How are chances for third parties to reintroduce NXHosting, with the new display system, technically? Is there a real restraint, or can it just be added to the WindowServer? (I never went into the intricacies, just knew it was there and roughly what it was about.) Christian Benesch Matthew Cromer wrote: > In article <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> Michael J. Peck, > mjpeck@nstar.net writes: > >I don't really think VNC is a viable solution. VNC simply takes a > >picture of the current framebuffer and sends it over the wire with your > >choice of compression. Unlike a real remotability protocol, e.g. X, it's > >inefficient and barely-usable over anything less than 10Mbps Ethernet. > > > >MJP > > Timbuktu software works fine even over a 28.8 connection. > > The problem is, NXHosting lets you host multiple client sessions off of a > single computer. > Nothing like that with Timbuktu or PCAnywhere. > > Dammit, this needs to be put back into place ASAP. > > Matthew Cromer
From: Kristofer Jon Magnusson <kris@xmission.xmission.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 23:35:25 -0600 Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0852) Message-ID: <6jj8it$5t4$1@xmission.xmission.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> In comp.sys.next.advocacy Frank M. Siegert <frank@this.NO_SPAM.net> wrote: : True, but NXHost'ing over a slow line can be quite challenging too FYI, I NXHost apps on my remote web server over a 128Kb ISDN line. It works just fine--it's only a little slow. ..........kris -- Kristofer Jon Magnusson <kris@xmission.com> "NASA and its partners have identified vacuum as a major attribute of space."
From: Kristofer Jon Magnusson <kris@xmission.xmission.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 15 May 1998 23:33:57 -0600 Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0852) Message-ID: <6jj8g5$5no$1@xmission.xmission.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> In comp.sys.next.advocacy Frank M. Siegert <frank@this.NO_SPAM.net> wrote: : VNC (see http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc ) could be ported if enough interest is : there. Or we could write a JavaBean that uses RMI to send display data over the wire. You could run a remote UI in Interface Builder in test mode. =) ..............kris -- Kristofer Jon Magnusson <kris@xmission.com> "NASA and its partners have identified vacuum as a major attribute of space."
From: rriley@yahoo.com (Rex Riley) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Message-ID: <od871.624$Fi2.704485@news.rdc1.sdca.home.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 04:02:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:02:28 PDT Organization: @Home Network In <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> Henry McGilton wrote: > Nathan Urban wrote: > > * This is bad. :( What good is having the pretense > * of a network-aware GUI-based OS without being able > * to run apps remotely?? > > Nathan, the lack of NXHosting may be "bad" from a specialised > viewpoint of some developers and some specialised applications > such as Mathematica et al. But I don't believe it's "bad" > in the broader picture of the PC consumer market. Ninety nine > percent of Mac and PC users wouldn't knonw remote hosting if > it bit them on the leg, wouldn't understand it if you explained > it to them, and wouldn't know what to do with it even then. > > From the viewpoint of hardware and software sales, NXHosting > won't have any effect. Bit of a drag for those who *really* > need the feature. I'm sure that somebody will come up with > some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, I'm not > concerned that the lack of NXHosting will drive Apple out > of business. > > Quite frankly as an Investor and ex-Developer for NeXT, NXHosting is Apple's strategic weapon in the Java networked client game, without which Apple is stuck without market differentiation. It certainly will drive Apple further away from the mainstream of networked sales. A significant portion of Apple's promised future is Java centric. Without a better NxHost, they are working into tighter and tighter niches. The street seems to agree with me as Apple's 52 week high on Monday has retreated below 30 and will probably settle around 27.50 shortly. -r BTW: I agree with each and everyone of your points and hope that this is one of their technologies they are able to repackage, losing all its GEEK appeal...
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 16 May 1998 06:28:24 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <6jjbm8$4tk$1@news.xmission.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> <6jj8it$5t4$1@xmission.xmission.com> Kristofer Jon Magnusson <kris@xmission.xmission.com> wrote: > In comp.sys.next.advocacy Frank M. Siegert <frank@this.NO_SPAM.net> wrote: > > : True, but NXHost'ing over a slow line can be quite challenging too > > FYI, I NXHost apps on my remote web server over a 128Kb ISDN line. It > works just fine--it's only a little slow. Be honest here Kris: the machine you're hosting from is a 25MHz slab with Apache beating it to death (www.planetary.net is reasonably popular), so it's just as likely as not that the machine is what is slow, and not NXHosting. :-) What's cool is that you can NXHost from that slab to a Win NT box... -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: jq@papoose.quick.com (James E. Quick) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 16 May 1998 12:23:11 -0400 Organization: Quick and Associates Message-ID: <6jkehf$os@papoose.quick.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> In article <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30>, jonathan klein <jklein@ivy.hampshire.edu> wrote: >Think of the schools and businesses with hundreds or thousands of >computers and the two or three administrators who have to manage >all the machines. > >When the time comes to make a proposal to buy new machines, there would >be a *really* strong argument in favor of machines that can be fully >managed remotely and can run all of the applications that normal users >need to run. Don't get me wrong, I think that NSHosting will be sorely missed, but seriously remote administration will not be a direct casualty of this. After all, we're talking about Unix here. The only thing you lose here is the ability to have a native App whose entire task runs on a remote machine and whose entire display is on another. You have a herd of boxen on your network, and you want to change the configuration of one of them (or more likely, of all boxes in parallel). You use a GUI tool on one host, which uses kerberos authentication to use any combination of rsh, rcmd, rpc, EOF, rcp, etc. to blast the changes out any damn you please. You can even use libraries ala PVM to run massively parallel apps distributed on a number of boxes at once. Running a monolithic process remotely and displaying locally is in my opinion a poor way of writing administrative apps. It is a wonderful way of distributing processing power where it is wanted for individual application users, and I think it sucks that this will be going away. I just disagree with your example. Systems Administration apps should be designed in such a way that the same task can be run either remotely to a single destination or remotely to multiple hosts in paralell. NSHosting would not make such designs any easier. -- ___ ___ | James E. Quick jq@quick.com / / / | Quick & Associates NeXTMail O.K. \_/ (_\/ | If only the HMO would cover my allergy to gravity... ) | Blue skies, and soft landings.
From: Henry McGilton <henry@trilithon.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:53:04 -0700 Organization: Trilithon Research and Trading Message-ID: <355DD280.7FCE9175@trilithon.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355CC5FD.CF057A71@nstar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael J. Peck wrote: * Henry McGilton wrote: * * From the viewpoint of hardware and software * * sales, NXHosting won't have any effect. Bit * * of a drag for those who *really* need the feature. * * I'm sure that somebody will come up with * * some clever way to obtain the effect. As for me, * * I'm not concerned that the lack of NXHosting will * * drive Apple out of business. * I have to disagree with this, Henry. I see uses for * remotability every day, both at home and at work. * I develop my current application for work on an HP-UX * workstation, with all of its associated libraries, data * files, and other install accessories. When I need to * demo the app for my boss or other management, I can * remotely display it on any Windows PC or * UNIX workstation in the building very easily. <<<< Rest or well reasoned article snipped >>>> Well, I admit that after seeing your posting and several others on the subject, there appears to be a greater need and utility for remote hosting than I had imagined. I didn't look at a big enough picture. And happy to relate, Mike Paquette already addressed some of the concerns in another posting. So, let's lobby for remote hosting. By the way, I had made a suggestion that possibly distributed objects could be used to obtain a kind of limited remote hosting, where one app vends a view across the wire to another app that can lock focus on the remote view and draw into it --- even assuming that the new lightweight toolkit has the notion of lock focus [Mike?]. I haven't tried this (yet) to see if it would work --- I could flange up a couple of simple apps in an hour or so and test it even on my one-host network; but if it does, it could provide a stop-gap capability while we're waiting for the real thing. ........ Henry ============================================================= Henry McGilton | Trilithon Software, and, Boulevardier, Java Composer | Pacific Research and Trading -----------------------------+------------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com =============================================================
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <1562894772821@digifix.com> Date: 17 May 1998 03:49:39 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <10466895377625@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. 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USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Network information Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:36:31 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6jlpkc$17t6$1@news.missouri.edu> Dear lady and gentleman, I'd like to connect my PC to NeXT. Currently, I pull 2 PCs and 2 NeXTs with one hubs via RJ45. Many experts suggest me to "RUMBA" and "SAMBA". But for my system, I don't need to use the server-client. I just want my NeXTs see PCs and vice versa. Do I still need to use "RUMBA" or "SAMBA" or there are any other easier ways to get the thing done? Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you very much, Your Sincerely -- Sarawoot Chittratanawat c641625@showme.missouri.edu
From: mmalcolm crawford <malcolm@plsys.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software Date: 17 May 1998 15:31:17 GMT Organization: P & L Systems Message-ID: <6jmvs5$1cc$59@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> <6jivae$1ju$1@camel19.mindspring.com> <355D25A7.F4617E84@unet.univie.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: a9226931@unet.univie.ac.at NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY,COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE (please don't crosspost to misc) In <355D25A7.F4617E84@unet.univie.ac.at> Christian Benesch wrote: > Just curious: > How are chances for third parties to reintroduce NXHosting, with the new > display system, technically? > Very good: Jordan Dea-Mattson (Apple) stated explicitly that hooks to allow this would be put in place. Best wishes, mmalc.
From: "Michelle L. Buck" <buck.erik@mcleod.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:29:42 -0500 Organization: McleodUSA - http://www.mcleodusa.net Message-ID: <6jn6tv$138a1@odie.mcleod.net> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> <6jivae$1ju$1@camel19.mindspring.com> The reason that NSHosting will be gone in MacOS X is very simple. In order to bring MacOS apps forward, Quickdraw MUST be preserved with very few changes. Quickdraw is an immediate mode API that will never be network hostable. On the other hand, the DPS style client server code (much of which is encapsulated in the AppKit anyway) can easily be made "immediate" without any or much change. Apple wanted to keep the Window Server / Backing Store consistent between Quickdraw and AppKit. The new window server will only be responsible for backing store. There will be no more rendering or RIPing in the server. This means that Toolbox APPs and Quickdraw will gain "Buffered" and "Retained" window support and YellowBox will lose remote display. That is the trade off. That is the compromise.
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 17 May 1998 20:00:27 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: jklein@ivy.hampshire.edu jonathan klein may or may not have said: [...] -> Think of the schools and businesses with hundreds or thousands of -> computers and the two or three administrators who have to manage -> all the machines. Right now, I can use Netinfo Manager to get at any machine on a network of OpenStep hosts, and I don't have to use NSHost to do it. Remote administration doesn't depend on display redirection. -> When the time comes to make a proposal to buy new machines, there would -> be a *really* strong argument in favor of machines that can be fully -> managed remotely and can run all of the applications that normal users -> need to run. Then MacOS X still fits the bill. -jcr
From: "John Candlish" <john_candlish@reyrey.com.eschew> Subject: building gcc obj-c for `powerpc-*-aix' Newsgroups: comp.lang.objective-c,comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Reynolds And Reynolds Message-ID: <01bd81fb$057b8f40$7880cfa8@johncpc.or06.reyrey.com> Date: 18 May 98 01:19:31 GMT I'm currently bootstrapping gcc-2.8.0 to target hppa-risc and powerpc for hp-ux and aix respectively. I was hoping that a happy side-effect of my efforts would be objective-c support. However, concerning the powerpc architecture INSTALL states: Objective C does not work on this architecture because it makes assumptions that are incompatible with the calling conventions. Being a long-time NEXTSTEP user this has me confused. Isn't Apple's current Obj-c compilier based on gcc, and wouldn't that mean that the powerpc is supported? The licensing issues are unclear to me, but in the past NeXT had been forthcoming with there extentions to the standard gnu packages. This must go as far back as NS1.0 for the rs6000. Can a mere mortal build gcc to compile obj-c for this platform? thanks jCandlish
From: Michel Coste <nospam@micmac.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:42:51 GMT Organization: MiCMAC Sender: news@micmac.com Message-ID: <Et3KFF.CGG@micmac.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355CC5FD.CF057A71@nstar.net> <355DD280.7FCE9175@trilithon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: henry@trilithon.com This was written in comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software (<355DD280.7FCE9175@trilithon.com>) by Henry McGilton: > So, let's lobby for remote hosting. Maybe Timbuctu owners already made lobbying... mc
From: theisen@akaMail.com (Dirk Theisen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: VNC? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:56 +0200 Organization: University of Bonn, Germany Message-ID: <1d981a2.1qnzk00xe711gN@rhrz-isdn3-p10.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> Hallo Frank! frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) wrote on comp.sys.next.advocacy: > In <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> Yufeng Tsui wrote: > > Killing NXHosting is, IMHO, a bad thing. You no longer get it for free. > > Maybe someone can write anapplication to do this, like screencast or > > PC Anywhere. And then you can manage all your stuff remotely. Maybe > > someone third party has already started this??? > > VNC (see http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc ) could be ported if enough interest is > there. The Java Client should at least run on Rhapsody and they have a FreeBSD "port" (for X). This is certainly not as nice as HSHost, because it is like the current BlueBox: Remote computer in a window, but it's definitly an open, cross platform spec, which is a big win. HSHosting does not help me when I have a Unix machine in front of me to administer my Rhapsody Server (via the OS admin tools) Hey, they even have a WinCE-Client along with generic Java. I dunno, if Rhapsody/MacOS X supports/will support "virtual monitors" or something like that, to simulate a second users GUI though. Gruss, Dirk -- No RISC - No fun
From: Christian Benesch <a9226931@unet.univie.ac.at> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: good books for openstep? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:09:42 +0200 Organization: Vienna University, Austria Message-ID: <35620326.4D946311@unet.univie.ac.at> References: <01bd6661$b87e7cc0$43f0bfa8@davidsul> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: NeXT Newbie <macghod@concentric.net> There is a terrific online-documentation, with developer tutorials, sys-admin issues - in short everything one needs. Developer tutorials come with OS 4.2 in printed form ( with the academic bundle at least). Both are a great help and cover about everything. Christian Benesch NeXT Newbie wrote: > What are some good books for openstep and/or the unix underneath? > Including stuff like system maintance, setting up ppp, email, modems etc > etc.
From: M Rassbach <mark@milestonerdl.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: VNC? Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:31:56 -0500 Organization: Inc.Net http://www.inc.net Message-ID: <35608CAC.B531E7B4@milestonerdl.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> <6jiaib$dq6$1@news.seicom.net> <1d981a2.1qnzk00xe711gN@rhrz-isdn3-p10.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dirk Theisen wrote: > frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) wrote on > > In <6ji5h4$s4k@sheepskin.cs.indiana.edu> Yufeng Tsui wrote: > > > Killing NXHosting is, IMHO, a bad thing. You no longer get it for free. > > > Maybe someone can write anapplication to do this, like screencast or > > > PC Anywhere. And then you can manage all your stuff remotely. Maybe > > > someone third party has already started this??? > > > > VNC (see http://www.orl.co.uk/vnc ) could be ported if enough interest is > > there. > > The Java Client should at least run on Rhapsody and they have a FreeBSD > "port" (for X). > Hey, they even have a WinCE-Client along with generic Java. And there is now a version for Palm Pilot. Its quite the chunk of code. Wonder if anyone will ever port it to MacOS [7-x]
From: see-below@not-my-address.com (Matthew Vaughan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:36:42 -0700 Message-ID: <see-below-1905982136420001@209.24.240.108> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> <6jij29$dq6$5@news.seicom.net> <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> <6jivae$1ju$1@camel19.mindspring.com> <6jn6tv$138a1@odie.mcleod.net> <6jq71q$e4$1@amdint.amd.com> In article <6jq71q$e4$1@amdint.amd.com>, raketenschelm@hotmail.com wrote: > Please, look around: There's the big company out there, that badly tries to > improve > an unsuited, underdeveloped mainstream operating system with multi user > support > and display redirection (code named Hydra) and what does Apple do? > It takes an existing, well designed, working system and cripple it to be what > WindowsNT 4.0 is. > Congratulations, if that's how Apple thinks different, I'm afraid that > businesses won't > consider Apple a serious alternative. > Reducing administration costs is a big requirement and NT sucks with regard > to > administration. I'm looking forward to test Hydra hoping it saves me time. > Without NX/NSHosting and a MacOS-X running on X86 hardware, how do you > want to make me interested in the "New Technology" from Apple? I agree. It appears Apple has _no_ plans for the business desktop whatsoever, instead focusing 100% on the consumer market. I think this is wrong, because despite past resistance to buying Macs (and OpenStep), I think Rhapsody will have a lot of things (and NXHosting _would_ have been one of the big ones...) that corporations would very much like to have. And, despite that huge "untapped" consumer market of non-computer users, the simple fact is the business world spends tons and tons on computers. .................................................... MATTHEW VAUGHAN matthewv at best dot com (damn spammers...) http://www.best.com/~matthewv/ ....................................................
From: theisen@akaMail.com (Dirk Theisen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:24:54 +0200 Organization: University of Bonn, Germany Message-ID: <1d9b0ot.xyglrcusvdihN@rhrz-isdn3-p2.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <Et0nDE.Ixo@abulafia.in-berlin.de> <6jivae$1ju$1@camel19.mindspring.com> In article <355CC6E3.F30A0812@nstar.net> Michael J. Peck, mjpeck@nstar.net writes: >I don't really think VNC is a viable solution. VNC simply takes a >picture of the current framebuffer and sends it over the wire with your >choice of compression. Unlike a real remotability protocol, e.g. X, >it's inefficient and barely-usable over anything less than 10Mbps >Ethernet As I look at the open architecture of VNC: A "real remotability protocol" can be seen as an efficient compression protocol. Given a known pixel presentation of an image, a series of graphics primitives gives a description of the new image (like they were drawn on an actual screen). What I want to say is that is is possible to implement a Rhapsody-optimized VNC compression method (along with the required, simple ones), which directly uses a repesentation of YellowBox' drawing primitives to describe the changes. Both coding and decoding would be very easy to implement and most efficient at the same time. The advantage would be that VNC would work with every other Platform, but /best/ between Rhapsody machines. Regards, Dirk -- No RISC - No fun
From: bmeadows@nosc.mil (Brian K. Meadows) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: No Rhapsody for Intel past version 1.0 ? Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:01:08 GMT Organization: NCCOSC RDT&E Division, San Diego, CA 92147 Message-ID: <3563416f.100115703@poisson.spawar.navy.mil> I'd like to appeal to Rumor Control for conformation about a story I read on STEPWISE. While browsing the story "Apple revamps MAC OS plan" I was shocked to see that Apple was not planing to support Rhapsody for Intel beyond release 1.0. Could someone confirm or deny if this is actually Apple's intention? I find it more than a little hard to believe that Jobs & Co. would abandon a change to move an Apple OS onto a significant number on PC desk tops. If it is true what would be the motivation? Is there another product over the horizon? Thanks, Brian.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: SUBMISSION: Cryptor bug fix, feature enhancement release Message-ID: <l91+5NM7mHQs@cc.usu.edu> From: edx@cc.usu.edu Date: 20 May 98 08:49:54 MDT Distribution: world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Cryptor Bundle version 2.1 with Source code is now available on peak. This is a bug fix and feature enhancement release. I have uploaded source code and binaries which run on NextStep 3.3 and OpenStep 4.2 Next/Intel to ftp://ftp.next.peak.org, with the filename Cryptor.2.1.bundle.NI.s.tar.gz. See the new arrivals directory listings for where it will eventually land. Also included in the package is a patchfile which allows PGP version 5.0 to compile on NextStep3.3 or OpenStep 4.2. This is a new implementation of the Cryptor bundle for NextStep/OpenStep Next/Intel Mail.app. This bundle uses PGP version 5.0 as the encryption engine. PGP is not included due to United States export restrictions. Once you do get PGP from one of the European sources, you can patch the PGP source to allow it to compile on NextStep/OpenStep with the enclosed file pgp50i.patch. This version of Cryptor.bundle will do most key management with drag-and-drop icons. You can add keys to your keyring by dragging a key-file icon into the Key Well, and you can send keys to others by dragging a key icon from the Key Well to your mail message. This version of Cryptor.bundle also does a complete check of your PGP installation to insure you have installed and configured pgp correctly. Any errors in your pgp installation will be detected, and an informative panel decribing the problem and suggesting a solution will appear. This should alleviate many people's frustrations in getting PGP encryption running. Caveats: o Cryptor.bundle cannot encrypt MIME messages. Only NextMail and ascii mail are supported. o Encrypted messages are sent in NextMail format. Even encrypted ascii messages are sent in NextMail format. Messages encrypted with Cryptor.bundle will not be easily un-encrypted by anyone without NextMail capability. It's not impossible, but it requires some skill with command-line tools. [Briefly, a NextMail message is simply a uuencoded gzipped tar file (got that?). You can get to the pgp message by uudecoding, uncompressing, and de-tarring the NextMail body. Then you can use pgp to decrypt. Like I said, not impossible, but cumbersome.] Questions, problems, and suggestions can be send to me here: edx@cc.usu.edu Howard Cole USU Research Foundation Space Dynamics Lab
From: nurban@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (Nathan Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: No Rhapsody for Intel past version 1.0 ? Date: 20 May 1998 17:59:02 -0400 Organization: Data Systems Consulting, Inc. Message-ID: <6jvjn6$2ur$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> References: <3563416f.100115703@poisson.spawar.navy.mil> In article <3563416f.100115703@poisson.spawar.navy.mil>, bmeadows@nosc.mil (Brian K. Meadows) wrote: > I'd like to appeal to Rumor Control for conformation about a story I > read on STEPWISE. While browsing the story "Apple revamps MAC OS > plan" I was shocked to see that Apple was not planing to support > Rhapsody for Intel beyond release 1.0. Could someone confirm or deny > if this is actually Apple's intention? Time to haul out the old Steve Jobs quote again: "Rhapsody 1.0 is the last version of Rhapsody for any platform. All efforts are going into Mac OS X. Apple has not commited to shipping Mac OS X on any platform other than PPC." (This is from e-mail to Scott Anguish.)
From: David Stes <stes@mundivia.es> Newsgroups: comp.lang.objective-c,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: building gcc obj-c for `powerpc-*-aix' Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:44:03 +0000 Organization: Mundivia, Santander Message-ID: <35614653.41C67EA6@mundivia.es> References: <01bd81fb$057b8f40$7880cfa8@johncpc.or06.reyrey.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Candlish wrote: > > This must go as far back as NS1.0 for the rs6000. Can a mere mortal build > gcc to compile obj-c for this platform? The problem is described at http://world.std.com/~gsk/oc-rs6000-problems.html For AIX 3.2, I know that the POC compiler from http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/devel/lang/objc/ works; the runtime associated to that compiler is plain vanilla portable C, so AIX 4.x (?) should work too, I think.
From: billyboy@interlog.com (Bill Best) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Can NeXTstation be used with cable modem? Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:01:23 GMT Organization: Red Sector Inc. Message-ID: <3563de9f.88418656@news.interlog.com> NNTP-Posting-Time: 21 May 1998 08:01:52 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have an old non-turbo NeXTstation that I'd like to put to use. Can anyone tell me if it can be connected to a cable modem or ASDL line. I would like to use it as a hub to network my other Win NT4 machines and maybe as an FTP server. I know you can hook a regular modem to it, but I want something faster that can share bandwidth. Thanks! Bill. billyboy@interlog.com
From: "Cliff Leong" <zmendel@home.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <3563de9f.88418656@news.interlog.com> Subject: Re: Can NeXTstation be used with cable modem? Message-ID: <RhV81.159$ON2.1494252@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:41:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 05:41:21 PDT Organization: @Home Network I just connected a LAN in my house. My PC has 2 NICs, one is connected to the cable modem, the other connected to the 10BASE-T hub. Also, connected to the hub are a Mac, a cube and a turbo station. I'm running Sygate www.sygate.com ) on the PC to share the cable modem. It works. Cliff Leong [remove 'z' in address to reply] Bill Best wrote in message <3563de9f.88418656@news.interlog.com>... >I have an old non-turbo NeXTstation that I'd like to put to use. >Can anyone tell me if it can be connected to a cable modem or >ASDL line. I would like to use it as a hub to network my other Win >NT4 machines and maybe as an FTP server. > >I know you can hook a regular modem to it, but I want something faster >that can share bandwidth. > >Thanks! > >Bill. > >billyboy@interlog.com >
From: williamNo_Spam@ifi.uio.no (William Kent) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Figuring it out. NeXt->OpenStep etc. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:01:30 GMT Organization: University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <35644ee3.791468@nntp.uio.no> Hi all. I am sure for most of you this will seem like a stupid newbie post. And I appologize for that. I have been trying to figure out what is happening with NextStep for a little while. I always thought it seemed like a really kelw OS. Now I understand that NeXTStep transformed into OpenStep, (Is OpenStep still a fully featured OS? also for Intel?) What I am confused about is the recent changes. Did Jobs kill off OpenStep after he joined Apple again? I know there is an OS called Rhapsody coming out, that that will support Intel, but will be killed after 1.0. Will this be the last breath of OpenStep? Or is Rhapsody and OpenStep seperate products and development will continue on OpenStep?
From: nurban@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us (Nathan Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Figuring it out. NeXt->OpenStep etc. Date: 21 May 1998 13:25:21 -0400 Organization: Data Systems Consulting, Inc. Message-ID: <6k1o21$65q$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> References: <35644ee3.791468@nntp.uio.no> In article <35644ee3.791468@nntp.uio.no>, williamNo_Spam@ifi.uio.no (William Kent) wrote: > I am sure for most of you this will seem like a stupid newbie post. Oh, all of the different operating systems can get confusing. > Now I understand that NeXTStep transformed into OpenStep, NEXTSTEP turned into an operating system called OPENSTEP for Mach. In the transition, the APIs were isolated and made cross-platform under the name "OpenStep" (note capitalization to distinguish APIs from OS). OpenStep will run as a layer on top of either OPENSTEP for Mach, or on Windows (where it's called OPENSTEP Enterprise). OpenStep code will compile and run on either. > (Is OpenStep still a fully featured OS? also for Intel?) Yes, OPENSTEP for Mach is basically just NEXTSTEP with the new OpenStep APIs, and is available on Intel. > Did Jobs kill off OpenStep after he joined Apple again? The OpenStep APIs are now called "Yellow Box". OPENSTEP for Mach is now called "Rhapsody", and has been ported to the PowerPC. (It's also getting some major internal modifications, and a facelift to make it look like and feel like MacOS.) It is also available on Intel. All of the old architectures other than Intel (like NeXT) are not supported by Rhapsody, and they're going to stop selling OPENSTEP for Mach, in favor of Rhapsody. > I know there is an OS called Rhapsody coming out, that > that will support Intel, but will be killed after 1.0. > Will this be the last breath of OpenStep? No. Rhapsody will change its name and become Apple's new consumer OS, "MacOS X". There are no plans to offer it on Intel, though. And Yellow Box for Windows (formerly known as OPENSTEP Enterprise) will live on.
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 18 May 98 21:31:37 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98May18213137@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355CC5FD.CF057A71@nstar.net> <355DD280.7FCE9175@trilithon.com> In-reply-to: Henry McGilton's message of Sat, 16 May 1998 10:53:04 -0700 In article <355DD280.7FCE9175@trilithon.com>, Henry McGilton <henry@trilithon.com> writes: By the way, I had made a suggestion that possibly distributed objects could be used to obtain a kind of limited remote hosting, where one app vends a view across the wire to another app that can lock focus on the remote view and draw into it --- even assuming that the new lightweight toolkit has the notion of lock focus [Mike?]. I haven't tried this (yet) to see if it would work --- I could flange up a couple of simple apps in an hour or so and test it even on my one-host network; but if it does, it could provide a stop-gap capability while we're waiting for the real thing. Even if it did work - at some level, it's still depending on the same underlying support NXHost is depending on. I doubt it would work as-is, since this seems like an odd configuration to put the extra work in to support, but you could probably do it using some add-ons. The problem is that the -lockFocus is going as a DO message and will actually execute on the remote box, but the DPS drawing code will be on the local box, since it's not messages to an object. [The "you could probably do it" would involve a custom View proxy which arranged to redirect DPS drawing to the remote box. Still wouldn't handle events, though.] If they really do use QuickDraw, then we just have Yet Another Function-Based Drawing Library, but lose the network capabilities. I'd also be concerned about whether the APIs are focussed (unless they were to pick one of the latest comprehensive APIs and deep-six the rest for YellowBox), -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 18 May 98 21:40:09 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98May18214009@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <od871.624$Fi2.704485@news.rdc1.sdca.home.com> <joe.ragosta-1805981458540001@wil131.dol.net> In-reply-to: joe.ragosta@dol.net's message of Mon, 18 May 1998 14:58:53 -0400 In article <joe.ragosta-1805981458540001@wil131.dol.net>, joe.ragosta@dol.net (Joe Ragosta) writes: In article <od871.624$Fi2.704485@news.rdc1.sdca.home.com>, rr6013@yahoo.com wrote: Do you really think that the people on the Street even have a clue on what NXHosting is and what it means to Apple? I doubt if it's something that's going to have any direct impact on Apple's stock price. "People on the street" wouldn't recognize an ATM switch if you dropped it on their head. They have analysts for this. If Apple sacrificed NXHosting, there's yet another feature that Microsoft has that Apple doesn't. [Doesn't make a difference if NXHost was 3x better than anything Microsoft has, if it's gone now.] I do feel the need to point out that though I missed the session in question, I did attend an earlier session where it was implied that they were _thinking_ about it, and weren't sure on their plans. And comparing notes with other attendees, it's pretty clear that sometimes sessions gave distinctly conflicting messages, depending on whether the talk was given by someone from the NeXT viewpoint or the Mac viewpoint. [The best I heard was that someone had corralled a Mac guy after a talk, and he clarified a point by saying that under MacOS X you wouldn't be able to run Mac apps and YellowBox apps side-by-side, it would require a reboot. Pretty obviously wrong, and things like that are likely to have happened on _both_ sides of the divide,] -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 18 May 98 21:25:04 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com> In-reply-to: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com's message of 17 May 1998 20:00:27 GMT In article <6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com>, jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: jonathan klein may or may not have said: [...] -> Think of the schools and businesses with hundreds or thousands -> of computers and the two or three administrators who have to -> manage all the machines. Right now, I can use Netinfo Manager to get at any machine on a network of OpenStep hosts, and I don't have to use NSHost to do it. Remote administration doesn't depend on display redirection. Configure.app. The point being that not all administrative data is in NetInfo, nor should all such data necessarily _be_ in NetInfo, especially data that's seldom constant across a network. NetInfo as currently implemented has some scaling problems, and there are problems for which the scaling problems are intrinsic to the problem, not the implementation. What's next, QuickDraw in the kernel? -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: Henry McGilton <henry@trilithon.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:01:09 -0700 Organization: Trilithon Research and Trading Message-ID: <356479F5.7E06ED9@trilithon.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355CC5FD.CF057A71@nstar.net> <355DD280.7FCE9175@trilithon.com> <SCOTT.98May18213137@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Hess wrote: <<<< My suggestion about DO and lockFocus snipped >>>> * Even if it did work - at some level, it's still depending * on the same underlying support NXHost is depending on. * I doubt it would work as-is, since this seems like an * odd configuration to put the extra work in to support, * but you could probably do it using some add-ons. * The problem is that the -lockFocus is going as a DO * message and will actually execute on the remote box, * but the DPS drawing code will be on the local box, since * it's not messages to an object. [The "you could probably * do it" would involve a custom View proxy which arranged * to redirect DPS drawing to the remote box. Still wouldn't * handle events, though.] Whacka Whacka. Thanks for the clarifications, Scott. Sounds like it would end up as too much work [if it would work at all] to be useful. Cheers, ........ Henry ============================================================= Henry McGilton | Trilithon Software, and, Boulevardier, Java Composer | Pacific Research and Trading -----------------------------+------------------------------- mailto:henry@trilithon.com | http://www.trilithon.com =============================================================
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 21 May 1998 19:22:01 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6k1usp$34b$2@news.idiom.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com> <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: scott@doubleu.com Scott Hess may or may not have said: -> In article <6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com>, -> jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: -> jonathan klein may or may not have said: -> [...] -> -> Think of the schools and businesses with hundreds or thousands -> -> of computers and the two or three administrators who have to -> -> manage all the machines. -> -> Right now, I can use Netinfo Manager to get at any machine on a -> network of OpenStep hosts, and I don't have to use NSHost to do it. -> Remote administration doesn't depend on display redirection. -> -> Configure.app. I haven't seen anyone run Configure.app via NSHost yet. What I typically see, is if someone has hosed their video setup, they'll reboot with config=default and run Configure in a 640x480 vga mode. -> The point being that not all administrative data is in NetInfo, nor -> should all such data necessarily _be_ in NetInfo, especially data -> that's seldom constant across a network. So you put it in a local Netinfo domain. You can make it as local or global as you want. -> NetInfo as currently implemented has some scaling problems, and there are -> problems for which the scaling problems are intrinsic to the problem, not -> the implementation. Still? I've seen it working fine for > 4000 hosts. I can't think of anything that does a better job. -> What's next, QuickDraw in the kernel? God forbid. -jcr
From: Matthew Cromer <matthew_cromer@iname.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 21 May 1998 19:19:25 GMT Organization: NETworthy Distribution: world Message-ID: <6k1unt$4ft@nrtphc11.bnr.ca> References: <6jmvs5$1cc$59@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> <SCOTT.98May18213137@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <6jq71q$e4$1@amdint.amd.com> , raketenschelm@hotmail.com writes: >Please, look around: There's the big company out there, that badly tries to >improve >an unsuited, underdeveloped mainstream operating system with multi user >support >and display redirection (code named Hydra) and what does Apple do? >It takes an existing, well designed, working system and cripple it to be what >WindowsNT 4.0 is. Bingo. MSFT is pulling out all the stops to add this to WinNT, and Apple is killing the same feature? Yuch! Matthew Cromer matthew_cromer@iname.com
From: cms@macisp.net (cms) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Next Turbo Color: Radius Help needed. **** Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:18:30 -0500 Organization: CMS Message-ID: <cms-2105981518300001@209.26.71.138> Hi.. We are thinking to purchase the Next System.. but want to use it.. as a Radius Server for Internet Access. Has anyone.. done this.. or is these a pipe dream. I know livingston has the sorce code free for BSDI. Please Email.. cms@macisp.net thank's to all. Rick
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3564a8d7.75954048@News.canadawired.com> Control: cancel <3564a8d7.75954048@News.canadawired.com> Date: 21 May 1998 22:33:19 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3564a8d7.75954048@News.canadawired.com> Sender: mlebel@netpointer.com (#1Mario) Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: <gbh@middlemarch.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:26:01 -0400 Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980521182457.13182C-100000@shell.clark.net> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us><355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30><6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com> <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Scott Hess <scott@doubleu.com> In-Reply-To: <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> > [...] NetInfo as currently > implemented has some scaling problems, and there are problems for > which the scaling problems are intrinsic to the problem, not the > implementation. > What type of problems and at what point do they occur? Also, what would work better than NetInfo to address these problems? --Greg
Message-ID: <35648ACB.1B1C@his.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:13:00 +0000 From: Royce Priem <priem@his.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Takeover of Service Contracts? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Heller Information Services Hello - Does anyone know who took over the service contracts for hardware after NeXT discontinued the hardware line in '93? Thanks in advance... Royce
Subject: Re: Can NeXTstation be used with cable modem? Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <3563de9f.88418656@news.interlog.com> In-Reply-To: <3563de9f.88418656@news.interlog.com> From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Message-ID: <qa491.204$ON2.1808676@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:04:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:04:22 PDT Organization: @Home Network On 05/21/98, Bill Best wrote: > I know you can hook a regular modem to it, but I want something > faster that can share bandwidth. You can. A cable modem is just an Ethernet connection. See http://www.peak.org/~luomat/articles/cablemodems for step by steps in setting it up. Unfortunately there's no way to do NATD or IP Masquerading with NeXTStep/OpenStep. TjL
Subject: Re: Takeover of Service Contracts? Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <35648ACB.1B1C@his.com> In-Reply-To: <35648ACB.1B1C@his.com> From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Message-ID: <Kb491.205$ON2.1809199@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 01:05:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:05:46 PDT Organization: @Home Network On 05/21/98, Royce Priem wrote: > Does anyone know who took over the service contracts for hardware > after NeXT discontinued the hardware line in '93? I believe DecisionOne, but I'm not sure.... TjL
From: "David Waffen" <dmwaff@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Takeover of Service Contracts? Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:15:20 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <6k2n6p$2mi$1@winter.news.erols.com> References: <35648ACB.1B1C@his.com> <Kb491.205$ON2.1809199@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> I know that DEC or Digital support NEXT. At my last two jobs we have only certified our NeXT images to run on DEC equipment and they provide tech support to us. Trident Data Systems and MCI....I know Freddie Mac uses DEC too. Old pizza boxes, or the Black Box, hardware support is dead!! Timothy Luoma wrote in message ... >On 05/21/98, Royce Priem wrote: > >> Does anyone know who took over the service contracts for hardware >> after NeXT discontinued the hardware line in '93? > >I believe DecisionOne, but I'm not sure.... > >TjL > >
From: t68@nikhef.nl (Jos Vermaseren) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Waar kan ik OS 4.2 kopen? Message-ID: <4384@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> Date: 22 May 98 13:31:49 GMT Distribution: nlnet Organization: Nikhef-H, Amsterdam (the Netherlands). Weet iemand waar ik een academische licentie voor OpenStep 4.2 kan kopen tegenwoordig? Jos Vermaseren
From: John Hornkvist <sorry@no.more.spams> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Waar kan ik OS 4.2 kopen? Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:07:29 GMT Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Högskola Sender: john@haddock.cd.chalmers.se (John Hprnkvist) Distribution: nlnet Message-ID: <EtD38H.B11@haddock.cd.chalmers.se> References: <4384@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: t68@nikhef.nl In <4384@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> Jos Vermaseren wrote: > Weet iemand waar ik een academische licentie voor OpenStep 4.2 kan > kopen tegenwoordig? > > Jos Vermaseren (Not that my Dutch is all that good, but this should mean: Does anyone know where I can buy an academic license of OPENSTEP 4.2?) DART in Germany used to be the primary source for NeXT products in Europe. I got my copy from the Swedish distributor, UpNet. Regards, John Hornkvist
From: "David Waffen" <dmwaff@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Next Turbo Color: Radius Help needed. **** Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:17:59 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <6k4j7e$lll$1@winter.news.erols.com> References: <cms-2105981518300001@209.26.71.138> cms wrote in message ... > >Hi.. > >We are thinking to purchase the Next System.. > ================= You may want to think about what version of NeXT. v.3.3 is not 2k compliant. Apple has mention Patches. OpenStep, Rap and later versions are, but support is limited. I have not used the later ones, but Next v3.3 as an OS needs a static ip address. NeXTStep does not support DCHP nor ISDN modems, that I have heard. If there is a configuration let me know. I have to use an acend pipeline 50 router at home to connect to my ISDN line and work network. HONESTLY, I love my NextStep but applications are limited, Lighthouse products blow, and think it will become a dinosaur. Hopefully OpenStep and Rhapsody will stay. David
Message-ID: <3565D768.92308B11@rit.edu> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:52:08 -0400 From: Jeff Sciortino <jjs2815@rit.edu> Organization: Advanced Systems Integration Laboratory MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Takeover of Service Contracts? References: <35648ACB.1B1C@his.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check out the FAQs: http://www.peanuts.org/FAQ/NeXTFAQ.toc.html Someone did take over service, but I can't remember who, I know I read itin the FAQs. -Jeff Royce Priem wrote: > > Hello - > > Does anyone know who took over the service contracts for hardware after > NeXT discontinued the hardware line in '93? > > Thanks in advance... > > Royce
Subject: Re: Next Turbo Color: Radius Help needed. **** Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin References: <cms-2105981518300001@209.26.71.138> <6k4j7e$lll$1@winter.news.erols.com> In-Reply-To: <6k4j7e$lll$1@winter.news.erols.com> From: nospam+yes-this-is-a-valid_address@luomat.peak.org (Timothy Luoma) Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin Message-ID: <J%l91.246$ON2.2266091@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:21:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 14:21:45 PDT Organization: @Home Network On 05/22/98, "David Waffen" wrote: > You may want to think about what version of NeXT. > v.3.3 is not 2k compliant. There is only one part of 3.3 that was not compliant, setting the Date with Preferences.app. There's already a fix for this. > Apple has mention Patches. Haven't heard this myself, but I don't know what else needs patching > Next v3.3 as an OS needs a static ip address. False. Dynamic PPP works just fine. > NeXTStep does not support DCHP nor ISDN > modems, that I have heard. If there is a > configuration let me know. I believe that there are folks out there who have DHCP working under 3.3.... personally I haven't had to use it. I've used my 3.3 NeXTStation with a static IP and a cable modem, and gotten speeds just as fast as with my P-133 > HONESTLY, I love my NextStep but applications are > limited, Lighthouse products blow, and think it > will become a dinosaur. Hopefully OpenStep and > Rhapsody will stay. OpenStep is dead and Rhapsody won't be around for Intel (which will probably drive me to the world of Windows unless PPC hardware suddenly becomes an affordable alternative). OpenStep 4.2 will slowly become obsolete.... there will more than likely never be a Javascript-enabled browser for OS, nor Real Audio, nor a decent QuickTime/AVI/MPG anything else.... I expect to find myself booting into Win95 more and more as I want to use the Internet. It's sad, but after 7 years in the NeXTStep world, it feels like the end is near for me.... I'll probably keep using Unix in another form, probably FreeBSD, but I think the no-Intel future for Apple will be the final mistake.... NeXT, Inc found out that the world didn't want better-but-more-expensive hardware, they want sucky PC hardware because it's cheaper. I'd be happy to be wrong, but after that announcement my hope for an enjoyable OS in the future died.... TjL
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6k51eo$n31$10563@m5.stny.lrun.com> Control: cancel <6k51eo$n31$10563@m5.stny.lrun.com> Date: 22 May 1998 23:34:51 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6k51eo$n31$10563@m5.stny.lrun.com> Sender: PsxModifications <generation5@hotmail.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: cjm@purdue.edu (Chad McQuinn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: dr2 on 7300/200 Date: 23 May 1998 00:43:02 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> Has anyone been able to get DR2 installed and working on a 7300/200? I have not, but it's possible that my internal scsi setup is what's preventing this. I thought I would check to see if anyone else has been able to get it going before I muck around too much with the insides. Thanks, Chad McQuinn cjm@purdue.edu
From: Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.edu.remove-this> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: dr2 on 7300/200 Date: 23 May 1998 02:10:49 GMT Organization: Carnegie Mellon Univ. -- Computer Science Dept. Message-ID: <6k5b79$c19$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> References: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> >Has anyone been able to get DR2 installed and working on a 7300/200? I'll post this for the benefit of anyone else who is using DR1 on a 7300: Don't upgrade to DR2. The 7300s were never officially supported, but you could run DR1 on them. DR2, however, won't work. It wipes out the existing disk partition, goes through the entire install process, then doesn't boot. I've tried several diffent SCSI configurations, installing on both internal and external drives, with and without MacOS partitions, with no results. -Jared Brockway
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <23059811.1007@Nude.Here.com> Control: cancel <23059811.1007@Nude.Here.com> Date: 23 May 1998 14:12:34 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.23059811.1007@Nude.Here.com> Sender: Cory.Everson@Nude.Here.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <10466895377625@digifix.com> Date: 24 May 1998 03:49:53 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <8873895982424@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: dr2 on 7300/200 Date: 24 May 1998 06:59:37 GMT Organization: University of Oregon, Eugene Message-ID: <6k8ggp$bd$1@pith.uoregon.edu> References: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> <6k5b79$c19$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.edu.remove-this> wrote: > >Has anyone been able to get DR2 installed and working on a 7300/200? > I'll post this for the benefit of anyone else who is using DR1 on a > 7300: Don't upgrade to DR2. Is the 7300 that different than a 7600? I have it on a 7600 and it works fine. Now a power cneter on the other hand... Any ideas? wes -- ~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~NeXTMail OK!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vax a vicious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its *DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users.
From: cjm@purdue.edu (Chad McQuinn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: dr2 on 7300/200 Date: 24 May 1998 07:13:49 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <slrn6mfie9.7qh.cjm@localhost.localdomain> References: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> <6k5b79$c19$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> <6k8ggp$bd$1@pith.uoregon.edu> I wouldn't think it would be different, but the only response I got seems to indicate that DR2 doesn't work on the 7300 (and it's not officially supported). Any thoughts on why that would be? Chad On 24 May 1998 06:59:37 GMT, Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> wrote: >Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.edu.remove-this> wrote: >> >Has anyone been able to get DR2 installed and working on a 7300/200? > >> I'll post this for the benefit of anyone else who is using DR1 on a >> 7300: Don't upgrade to DR2. > >Is the 7300 that different than a 7600? I have it on a 7600 and it works fine. >Now a power cneter on the other hand... Any ideas? > >wes > >-- >~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~NeXTMail OK!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Vax a vicious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its >*DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where >they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users.
From: me@venetia.pgh.pa.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need *.ps -> *.gif converter Date: 24 May 1998 11:51:09 GMT Organization: Pittsburgh OnLine, Inc. Message-ID: <6k91je$lq9$1@dropit.pgh.net> I am trying to convert *.ps to *.gif images on my NeXT Cube. OmniImage can convert *.eps to *.gif, but it doesn't recognize *.ps. Some apps can output a *.eps image but a lot can't. However, all can output *.ps through Preview.app. Does anybody know of an app that will run on a Cube and convert *.ps to *.gif? Alternately, does anybody know of an app that will run on a Cube and convert *.ps to *.eps. Actually, this may already exist on the Cube, but if it does, I don't know the name. That would be helpful, if it exists. ----- Bob Peirce Venetia, PA 724-941-6883 me@venetia.pgh.pa.us [HOME (NeXT)] rbp@investor.pgh.pa.us [OFFICE] There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. -- P.J. O'Rourke
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <23059821.2831@ThisSite.com> Control: cancel <23059821.2831@ThisSite.com> Date: 24 May 1998 15:15:33 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.23059821.2831@ThisSite.com> Sender: DaiseyFuentes@ThisSite.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: me@venetia.pgh.pa.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need to convert WriteUp to Word for NT 4.0 Date: 24 May 1998 17:40:31 GMT Organization: Pittsburgh OnLine, Inc. Message-ID: <6k9m2g$6ur$1@dropit.pgh.net> I guess that says it all. WriteUp on my Cube can write many different formats, but none of them are quite right. The closest seems to be WinWord 6.0. However, it does a number of strange things such as failing to convert/include part of the text, changing font sizes and changing normal to bold or vice versa. What is the best (only?) way to get a WriteUp file to a Windows NT 4.0 Word *.doc file? If WriteUp can't do it, is there a filter or a conversion app I can use? ----- Bob Peirce Venetia, PA 724-941-6883 me@venetia.pgh.pa.us [HOME (NeXT)] rbp@investor.pgh.pa.us [OFFICE] There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. -- P.J. O'Rourke
From: DaiseyFuentes@ThisSite.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: -Christina Applegate Nude 83150 Date: Sunday, 24 May 1998 06:09:47 -0600 Organization: <no organization> Distribution: World Message-ID: <24059806.0947@ThisSite.com> http://members.coolnet.net/~tyler12 =======ALL FOR FREE======= YOU HEVER TO SEE THIS TO BELIEVE IT. 4 HOT COLLEGE GIRLS LIVING IN A HOUSE WITH CANS IN EVERY ROOM INCLUDING THE SHOWER. THE CAMS ARE ON 24 HOURS AND THERE IS ALSO A CHAT ROOM SO YOU CAN TALK TO THEM TOO... http://members.coolnet.net/~tyler12 http://members.coolnet.net/~tyler12 ]K(8
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <24059806.0947@ThisSite.com> Control: cancel <24059806.0947@ThisSite.com> Date: 24 May 1998 19:25:06 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.24059806.0947@ThisSite.com> Sender: DaiseyFuentes@ThisSite.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: x90120cast@FamousChicksxx.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: -Christina Applegate Nude 98619 Date: Sunday, 24 May 1998 21:36:45 -0600 Organization: <no organization> Distribution: World Message-ID: <24059821.3645@FamousChicksxx.com> http://cyberrealm.net/~dr777/ =======ALL FOR FREE======= YOU HEVER TO SEE THIS TO BELIEVE IT. 4 HOT COLLEGE GIRLS LIVING IN A HOUSE WITH CANS IN EVERY ROOM INCLUDING THE SHOWER. THE CAMS ARE ON 24 HOURS AND THERE IS ALSO A CHAT ROOM SO YOU CAN TALK TO THEM TOO... http://cyberrealm.net/~dr777/ http://cyberrealm.net/~dr777/ kY6F
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <24059821.3645@FamousChicksxx.com> Control: cancel <24059821.3645@FamousChicksxx.com> Date: 25 May 1998 00:38:33 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.24059821.3645@FamousChicksxx.com> Sender: x90120cast@FamousChicksxx.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130942233171448576@mailexcite.com> Control: cancel <130942233171448576@mailexcite.com> Date: 25 May 1998 03:06:57 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.130942233171448576@mailexcite.com> Sender: nobody@gatekeeper.transre.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "M.VOLKERTS" <VOLKERTS@KVI.NL> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Waar kan ik OS 4.2 kopen? Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:41:37 +0100 Organization: KVI Message-ID: <35694AE1.70582701@KVI.NL> References: <4384@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In the Netherlands there's a company called: ICGroup Rivium Quadrant 81 2909 LC Capelle a/d IJssel But be careful to get a quotation first, they tried to pull a stunt on me and service/support really sucks. Marcel
From: x90120cast@FamousChicksxx.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: -Christina Applegate Nude 26084 Date: Monday, 25 May 1998 05:52:55 -0600 Organization: <no organization> Distribution: World Message-ID: <25059805.5255@FamousChicksxx.com> http://cyberrealm.net/~dr777/ ================================ *****TOTALLY FREE MEMBERSHIP**** ================================ ***MUST SEE SPYCAM CELEB PICS*** **CAST OF THE MOVIE THE CRAFT SNEAK PIX** *Cameron Diaz, Mira Sorvino, Rosie Perez* *Nicole Eggert, Samantha Fox, Hellen Hunt* *MARISA TOMEI, TIA LEONIE, PAULA ABDULE* *SPICE GIRLS, JEWEL, HOLLY ROBINSON* *U.S. OLYMPIC GYMNAST LOCKER ROOM PIX* *NEVE CAMPBELL, FIONA APPLE* *ENTIRE BEVERLY HILLS 90120 CAST* PLUS HIDDEN SPY CAMS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD ================================ *****TOTALLY FREE MEMBERSHIP**** ================================ http://cyberrealm.net/~dr777/ http://cyberrealm.net/~dr777/ +qO^
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <25059805.5255@FamousChicksxx.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <25059805.5255@FamousChicksxx.com> Message-ID: <cancel.25059805.5255@FamousChicksxx.com> Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:57:53 +0000 Sender: x90120cast@FamousChicksxx.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=SBOT1
From: tony@gestel.it Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Sun SPARCstation Voyager and NEXSTEP 3.3 Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:12:50 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6kc5a2$7bt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi guys, we have a Sun SPARCstation Voyager with NEXSTEP 3.3 installed. The problem is very easy: the internal floppy drive does NOT work properly. It is impossible for us to normally use the floppy drive. It seems to be an hardware incompatibility... Any hints? Does it exist any kind of software patch to solve this problem ? Please help!! -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: news@news.msfc.nasa.gov Message-ID: <cancel.6kchmb$l1f@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <6kchmb$l1f@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Subject: cmsg cancel <6kchmb$l1f@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> Organization: http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/ Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 19:44:12 GMT Sender: "Angelina McCoy" <AngelinaM@worldnet.att.net> Make Money Fast post canceled by J. Porter Clark.
From: "J. Penning" <J_Penning@public.uni-hamburg.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Waar kan ik OS 4.2 kopen? Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:51:57 +0200 Organization: University of Hamburg -- Germany Message-ID: <3569CBDD.670@public.uni-hamburg.de> References: <4384@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> <EtD38H.B11@haddock.cd.chalmers.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently I found this site: http://www.uptime.ch/Deutsch/Preislisten/Preislisten.htmld/index.html I have/had no business with them. -- email j_penning@public.uni-hamburg.de
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130942234221522176@mailcity.com> Control: cancel <130942234221522176@mailcity.com> Date: 26 May 1998 06:01:45 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.130942234221522176@mailcity.com> Sender: nobody@gatekeeper.transre.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Joe Davis <jdavis@spdc.ti.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Color from B/W station Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 07:56:33 -0500 Organization: Silicon Technology Development Message-ID: <356ABC01.6AEEF96@spdc.ti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a B/W NextStation but I need to print out some color graphs for a presentation. I *don't* need to be able to see the colors on my screen -- only to be able to use my machine to construct the presentation in Concurrence (since Powerpoint is such a brain-dead program when it comes to PS). What I have tried is to change the background to BLUE, then save to a file, and print that file on my color printer at work. Unfortunately, the print comes out in B/W. Does anyone know if this is possible? Please help! I need to be able to make this presentation tomorrow! -jcd -- Joseph C. Davis Texas Instruments, Inc Process Flow Synthesis P.O. Box 655012, MS 3704 (972) 927-3805 Dallas, TX 75265
From: Andre-John Mas <ama@fabre.act.qc.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: No Rhapsody for Intel past version 1.0 ? Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 08:15:04 -0500 Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980526081300.25413D-100000@fabre.act.qc.ca> References: <3563416f.100115703@poisson.spawar.navy.mil> <6jvjn6$2ur$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <6jvjn6$2ur$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> On 20 May 1998, Nathan Urban wrote: > In article <3563416f.100115703@poisson.spawar.navy.mil>, bmeadows@nosc.mil (Brian K. Meadows) wrote: > > > I'd like to appeal to Rumor Control for conformation about a story I > > read on STEPWISE. While browsing the story "Apple revamps MAC OS > > plan" I was shocked to see that Apple was not planing to support > > Rhapsody for Intel beyond release 1.0. Could someone confirm or deny > > if this is actually Apple's intention? > > Time to haul out the old Steve Jobs quote again: > > "Rhapsody 1.0 is the last version of Rhapsody for any platform. > All efforts are going into Mac OS X. Apple has not commited to > shipping Mac OS X on any platform other than PPC." > > (This is from e-mail to Scott Anguish.) While Rhapsody will not be release on the Intel platform, I am curious to know if Apple has any plans to release MacOS X to the Intel platform? I reckon it is doubtful, though I would be interested in anything indicating thc contary.. AJ ---------------------------------------------------------- Andre-John Mas mailto:ama@act.qc.ca ----------------------------------------------------------
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 22 May 98 08:58:10 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98May22085810@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us> <355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30> <6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com> <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> <6k1usp$34b$2@news.idiom.com> In-reply-to: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com's message of 21 May 1998 19:22:01 GMT In article <6k1usp$34b$2@news.idiom.com>, jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: Scott Hess may or may not have said: -> NetInfo as currently implemented has some scaling problems, and -> there are problems for which the scaling problems are intrinsic -> to the problem, not the implementation. Still? I've seen it working fine for > 4000 hosts. I can't think of anything that does a better job. As I understand the problem, it's not so much the number of NetInfo daemons that are serving the information, it's the amount of information being served. Various of the larger schools have long complained about NetInfo's handling of upwards of 10k user accounts. Unfortunately, there may be some question as to whether this is still being tested, given the current state of the NeXTSTEP "market" (put another way, I'd be surprised if these larger schools still are using NetInfo in any significant fashion). Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NXHosting is dead ? Date: 22 May 98 10:39:10 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98May22103910@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6jhivm$22a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jhnld$a3v$1@crib.bevc.blacksburg.va.us><355C6969.6907242B@trilithon.com> <355c988e.0@192.33.12.30><6jnfkr$qjg$3@news.idiom.com> <SCOTT.98May18212504@slave.doubleu.com> <Pine.GSO.3.96.980521182457.13182C-100000@shell.clark.net> In-reply-to: 's message of Thu, 21 May 1998 18:26:01 -0400 In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980521182457.13182C-100000@shell.clark.net>, <gbh@middlemarch.net> writes: Scott wrote: > [...] NetInfo as currently implemented has some scaling > problems, and there are problems for which the scaling problems > are intrinsic to the problem, not the implementation. What type of problems and at what point do they occur? The problems I've discussed with people generally relate not to the number of machines using NetInfo so much as the amount of info in NetInfo. So, thousands of machines can use it, but if you have 10k user accounts, things get pokey, both at query time (more frequent than you think) and moreso at update time. Also, what would work better than NetInfo to address these problems? I'm not sure there _are_ good ways to address it, because some of the problems may be more due to how the info is used than the info itself. Other than that, I'd guess some sort of batch mode would be very helpful. Something where you can scedule the updates, and hint them so that the data propagates at a low level (ie, file copies) rather than a high level (NetInfo data structures). This may be something that can be fixed with the various database replication technology that's come into being since NetInfo was created. Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: kay@buddhist.com (Kay Schulz (The Bumpui)) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.lang..java.gui Subject: GNUStep and Java Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 01:26:00 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Message-ID: <356b6ace.511302914@news.nus.edu.sg> Hi is there anyone out there thinking about programming the OpenStep API in Java? Is there anyone who build the look and feel og OpenStep using Java? I mean the menues, the filebrowser? I would love to have the possibility to have a Next-look and feel API for Java Kay Schulz
From: Robert Worne <rworne at primenet dot com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Need *.ps -> *.gif converter Date: 26 May 1998 22:15:01 -0700 Organization: I'm not organized... sorry... Message-ID: <6kg7gl$o58@nntp02.primenet.com> References: <6k91je$lq9$1@dropit.pgh.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: me@venetia.pgh.pa.us In <6k91je$lq9$1@dropit.pgh.net> me@venetia.pgh.pa.us wrote: > I am trying to convert *.ps to *.gif images on my NeXT Cube. > > OmniImage can convert *.eps to *.gif, but it doesn't recognize *.ps. > Some apps can output a *.eps image but a lot can't. However, all can > output *.ps through Preview.app. GSCorp had a utility called : eXTRATIFF, which outputs printer output to a TIFF file of your specified DPI. The TIFF file can then be converted by any application you wish. As to where GSCorp is, and if they still sell this, is anyone's guess. It does the job quite nicely. -- Warning! Headers munged to avoid spam: rworne (at) primenet (dot) com //-----------------------------------------------------------------// Starving CS Undergrad: "Sorry, I don't do Windows I'd rather starve!" //-----------------------------------------------------------------// Visit my videogame collecting site! http://www.primenet.com/~rworne/
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.lang..java.gui Subject: Re: GNUStep and Java Date: 27 May 1998 18:24:17 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6khloh$3cm$2@news.idiom.com> References: <356b6ace.511302914@news.nus.edu.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kay@buddhist.com Kay Schulz (The Bumpui) may or may not have said: -> Hi -> is there anyone out there thinking about programming the OpenStep API -> in Java? Yes, Apple. -> Is there anyone who build the look and feel og OpenStep using Java? -> I mean the menues, the filebrowser? -> I would love to have the possibility to have a Next-look and feel API -> for Java I'm afraid you'd have to settle for the Mac Look and Feel. -jcr
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.msx,comp.sys.ncr,comp.sys.newton,comp.sys.newton.announce,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.pens,comp.sys.powerpc,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy Subject: cmsg cancel <896304538.501894@nexus.polaris.net> Control: cancel <896304538.501894@nexus.polaris.net> Date: 27 May 1998 21:43:40 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.896304538.501894@nexus.polaris.net> Sender: "Shannonrx7" <shannonrx7@juno.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.msx,comp.sys.ncr,comp.sys.newton,comp.sys.newton.announce,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.pens,comp.sys.powerpc,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy Subject: cmsg cancel <896308819.951908@nexus.polaris.net> Control: cancel <896308819.951908@nexus.polaris.net> Date: 27 May 1998 23:17:19 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.896308819.951908@nexus.polaris.net> Sender: "Shannonrx7" <shannonrx7@juno.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6ki02l$c9k$3375@dalen.get2net.dk> Control: cancel <6ki02l$c9k$3375@dalen.get2net.dk> Date: 28 May 1998 01:59:50 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6ki02l$c9k$3375@dalen.get2net.dk> Sender: KOYLA<koyla21@get2net.dk> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.edu.nospam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: dr2 on 7300/200 Date: 28 May 1998 03:38:24 GMT Organization: Carnegie Mellon Univ. -- Computer Science Dept. Message-ID: <6kim7g$ctp$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> References: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> >Has anyone been able to get DR2 installed and working on a 7300/200? Here is a link to an article in Omni's developer mailing list archive called Installing on a 7300: Simple Instructions. I haven't tried it myself, but there was a followup post confirming the procedure. http://www.omnigroup.com/MailArchive/rhapsody-admin/1998/0153.html -Jared
From: cjm@purdue.edu (Chad McQuinn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: dr2 on 7300/200 Date: 28 May 1998 04:37:33 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <slrn6mpqpi.26g.cjm@localhost.localdomain> References: <slrn6mc75f.1d1.cjm@localhost.localdomain> <6kim7g$ctp$1@goldenapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu> Thanks for replying, I will check out Omni's site. Now, does anyone have any thoughts on whether the 7300 will be _officially_ supported in CR1--I know OS X is up in the air, but I would think Rhapsody CR1 will run on it and just about every other PCI mac. At least I would _think_ so, but the lack of hardware support in DR2 is a little discouraging. Chad On 28 May 1998 03:38:24 GMT, Jared Brockway <brockway+@cs.cmu.edu.nospam> wrote: >>Has anyone been able to get DR2 installed and working on a 7300/200? > >Here is a link to an article in Omni's developer mailing list archive >called Installing on a 7300: Simple Instructions. I haven't tried it >myself, but there was a followup post confirming the procedure. > >http://www.omnigroup.com/MailArchive/rhapsody-admin/1998/0153.html > > -Jared >
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:55:47 +0100 Message-ID: <356D1A1B.F7AD7C6E@stnc.com> From: David Linsley <dlinsley@stnc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: What is NeXT like? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I've been looking at getting a NeXT box for a while and have seen a 6804-25 Cube with a PAL Dimension board for £500 ($800). I've never used black hardware before - only seen it. What is the response like using this hardware? Both for general shell use and graphic viewing? Can someone point me to or send me some details on the dimension card - what can it do, how many inputs does it have? Regards, David Linsley STNC Ltd Software Engineer Reflection House Phone: +44 (0)1284 770770 Olding Road Fax: +44 (0)1284 770771 Bury St. Edmunds Email: dlinsley@stnc.com Suffolk IP33 3TA WWW: http://www.stnc.com England
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6kir9o$lca$13844@dalen.get2net.dk> Control: cancel <6kir9o$lca$13844@dalen.get2net.dk> Date: 28 May 1998 10:19:11 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6kir9o$lca$13844@dalen.get2net.dk> Sender: Dino<easymoney@get2net.dk> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Color from B/W station Message-ID: <1998052818491800.OAA07991@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 28 May 1998 18:49:17 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <356ABC01.6AEEF96@spdc.ti.com> My suggestion would be to use pStill (from www.this.net/~frank) to create a .pdf and then print that using the Acrobat Reader on the machine which the printer is hooked up to. pStill is fabulous and well worth the nominal shareware fee. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Need *.ps -> *.gif converter Date: 28 May 1998 09:57:58 -0700 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <6kk52m$hla@slip.net> References: <6k91je$lq9$1@dropit.pgh.net> In article <6k91je$lq9$1@dropit.pgh.net>, <me@venetia.pgh.pa.us> wrote: >I am trying to convert *.ps to *.gif images on my NeXT Cube. > >OmniImage can convert *.eps to *.gif, but it doesn't recognize *.ps. >Some apps can output a *.eps image but a lot can't. However, all can >output *.ps through Preview.app. For single images I view the ps file with Preview.app then use Grab.app to capture as tiff, then use ToyViewer to convert to gif. If you want a command line solution you must install netpbm then convert ps to pbm then convert to jpg. Emmett
From: krispos@erols.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: boot problem Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:57:26 GMT Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <356dc130.675270@news.erols.com> Recently I tried to hook my NeXT up to a PC running Linux. I didn't quite know what I was doing and my NeXT went crazy. Eventually I went into single user mode and fooled around and got it to work again. However, now when I boot it up it goes to a screen that says loading from network and just sits there...how do I get around this? The NeXT is in no way attached to a network, nor do I currently want it to be. Thanks in advance Krispos@erols.com
From: ginz1@juno.com (ginz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: boot problem Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:56:41 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <6kkne2$1n4$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <356dc130.675270@news.erols.com> I had the same problem and I found this on the net. This will solve your problem. Have you ever turned on your NeXT computer to find an error message that leaves you baffled? Did you ever wish there was a great support bulletin article that helped explain what you can do to make your computer work normally again? Do you also want to know what startup options you can use when you're at the ROM monitor prompt ``NeXT>''? This article explains the startup (boot) flags and operating system (kernel) variables you can use when you start your computer, whether for common startup solutions and options or disaster recovery. standard boot devices The entry normally held by the boot parameter is sd, od, en, or fd. When stored in the boot parameter, this entry is all that's needed. From the ``NeXT>'' prompt, you type a b designating a boot command, followed by the appropriate entry. The general usage when working from the ROM monitor is: bxx where: xx = sd, od, en, fd sd SCSI disk od optical disk en Ethernet (network booting) fd floppy disk The discussion of the boot command will be expanded later in this article to include boot flags and kernel variables. setting the default boot device Normally, once you set the default boot device, it doesn't change. You may, however, occasionally need to change this setting. This section explains how to change the default boot device when working from the ROM monitor and installing a 68040 upgrade board. New 040 upgrade boards are sometimes shipped with the default boot device set for od (optical disk). If you normally booted on the internal SCSI disk, for example, your computer may stop and ask you to insert an optical disk after you install the new 040 board. If your computer doesn't have an optical disk drive, the system will then try to boot through Ethernet. In either situation, you'll need to stop the boot sequence and change the boot parameter so the SCSI disk will be the default boot device. To accomplish this, after the Testing System panel appears, press and hold down the right Command key and press the ~ key on the numeric keypad. This action takes the computer to the ``nmi>'' prompt or, sometimes, back to the ROM monitor. Go to the ROM monitor from the ``nmi>'' prompt: nmi> halt This brings you to the ``NeXT>'' prompt. From here type p, and you'll be prompted for a boot device. Continue by typing sd and pressing Return, then Control-D, and Return, as follows: NeXT> p Boot command: od? sd DRAM tests: yes? ^d NeXT> You have now set the default boot device to the SCSI disk Hope this helps. Carl... krispos@erols.com wrote: >Recently I tried to hook my NeXT up to a PC running Linux. I didn't >quite know what I was doing and my NeXT went crazy. Eventually I went >into single user mode and fooled around and got it to work again. >However, now when I boot it up it goes to a screen that says loading >from network and just sits there...how do I get around this? The NeXT >is in no way attached to a network, nor do I currently want it to be. >Thanks in advance >Krispos@erols.com
From: PNP COMPUTERS <pnpmail@pnpcomputers.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,biz.marketplace.computers.other,biz.marketplace.computers.pc-clone Subject: USED SYSTEMS & NOTEBOOKS FOR SALES Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 15:58:54 -0700 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <356DEC2E.73FDA238@pnpcomputers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit USED SYSTEMS & NOTEBOOKS FOR SALES Acer $90 * 486DX-33 * 1Meg Video Card * 8MB RAM * 1.44 Floppy Drive * 170MB Hard Drive * Keyboard & Mouse * Desktop Case * Used and good condition * 25 Systems Left ********************************************************** HP Vectra $105 * 486DX-66 * 1Meg Video Card * 4MB RAM * 1.44 Floppy Drive * 420MB Hard Drive * Keyboard & Mouse * Desktop Case * Used and good condition * 45 Systems Left ********************************************************** Toshiba 1950CT Notebook $375 * 486DX-40MHz * 8MB RAM * 250MB Hard Drive * 10.4" Active Color Screen * Used and good condition * Only 8 Left *********************************************************** IBM Thinkpads $305 * 486DX-33MHz * 8MB RAM * 170MB Hard Drive * Used and good condition * Only 8 Left *********************************************************** Compaq Docking Stations for Armada 4100 Notebooks $85(New) ************************************************************* To order please email or call us with your full name, shipping address, phone numbers, and credit card number + expiration date + credit card billing address. Shipping and Handling is EXTRA. We accept Visa or MasterCard. Computer Sales, Service, and Upgrades To Place An Order, Call or Visit Us!!! PNP COMPUTERS Tel: (562) 861-7828 Fax: (562) 861-1348 Website: http://www.pnpcomputers.com E-Mail: pnpmail@pnpcomputers.com
From: jwdb@fygir.nl (Jan-Willem de Bruijn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Q] spooled print files not deleted on OSE NT Date: 29 May 1998 17:03:22 GMT Organization: NLnet Message-ID: <6kmpoq$87g$1@news.Leiden.NL.net> Has anybody noticed that when you print from an OpenStep program on Windows NT (with OSE 4.2), two files appear in a temp folder (D:\Temp in my case), called hostname_pid_varnumber_fixednumber_[12].ps The number 1 file is filled and spooled to the printer. The number 2 file is zero bytes. But: both files remain there. This can quickly fill up even the largest disk. Is this normal? If so, how would I go about cleaning them up from my program? Thanks in advance for any insights, Jan-Willem -- Jan-Willem de Bruijn - F Y G I R logistic information systems http://www.fygir.com/
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <8873895982424@digifix.com> Date: 31 May 1998 03:49:46 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <3654896587219@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: kk@kax.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Hacked the password 99051 Date: Sunday, 31 May 1998 04:22:12 -0600 Organization: eh254 Message-ID: <31059804.2212@kax.net> The password details for http://www.firewalluk.com/secure/systemdoor.htm ps make sure your follow the log on procedures carefully or you will get in a loop. If user1 is logged on try user2 or user3 etc with same password. Name : user1 Password : kitten ),<
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <31059804.2212@kax.net> Control: cancel <31059804.2212@kax.net> Date: 31 May 1998 14:55:27 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.31059804.2212@kax.net> Sender: kk@kax.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "OPENSTEP" <openstep@juno.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: WTB: SoftPC for OPENSTEP Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:38:32 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6ks19q$r5a$2@news.missouri.edu> WTB: SoftPC for OPENSTEP Want to buy SoftPC for OPENSTEP Please make me an offer. Thank.
From: Matt Evans <bmajik@ntr.net> Subject: Remote Printing to non-Next? Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <eqmc1.28$Pv3.2355298316@ha2.ntr.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:17:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:17:14 EDT Organization: ntr.net Corporation I've got a wonderful postscript laser printer hanging off a sparc machine, but i was wondering how i could make my NS 3.1 Cube see it ? I dont see any way to add remote printers in the PrintManager nor is there a printcap file on my machine. Im just using local.nidb for NetInfo, doesn't seem to be an easy way to add printers to that either using the NetInfoManager. Any suggestions would be appreciated, Matt -- ************************************************************************* * Matt Evans ntr.net Corporation * * ntr.net Corporation - Development Group http://www.ntr.net * * bmajik@ntr.net (502) 583 3777 * *************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: Nitezki@NiDat.sub.org (Peter Nitezki) Subject: Re: Need to convert WriteUp to Word for NT 4.0 Message-ID: <Etu4p0.40n@nidat.sub.org> Sender: nitezki@nidat.sub.org (Peter Nitezki) Organization: private site of Peter Nitezki, Kraichtal, Germany References: <6k9m2g$6ur$1@dropit.pgh.net> Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 18:58:12 GMT In article <6k9m2g$6ur$1@dropit.pgh.net> me@venetia.pgh.pa.us writes: > I guess that says it all. > > WriteUp on my Cube can write many different formats, but none of them > are quite right. The closest seems to be WinWord 6.0. However, it > does a number of strange things such as failing to convert/include > part of the text, changing font sizes and changing normal to bold or > vice versa. > > What is the best (only?) way to get a WriteUp file to a Windows NT > 4.0 Word *.doc file? If WriteUp can't do it, is there a filter or a > conversion app I can use? > WriteUp, at least in one of the later releases, included several import/export filters which also include WinWord 3.0, as far as I remember. Unfortunately, the export has some strange effects. I have a file that, when converted to WinWord format, hangs WinWord 5&7 before a single character is displayed. On Widooze95 it even hangs the Explorer that dispatched Word. My resort was an unload of the RTF data, which I got successfuly loaded. -- Peter Nitezki | pnitezki@acm.org # Blessed art thou who knoweth Staarenbergstr. 44 | Tel.: +49 7251 62495 # not about the pleasure and 76703 Kraichtal | Fax : +49 7251 960575 # delight of being hooked GERMANY | E-mail ASCII only # up to the Net. Peter 1,3-5
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <XXiQUdUj9GA.142@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <XXiQUdUj9GA.142@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 01 Jun 1998 05:56:25 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.XXiQUdUj9GA.142@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: PC4LessOnline Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: gmgraves@slip.net (George Graves) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need help installing DR2 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:36:43 -0700 Organization: Graves Associates Message-ID: <gmgraves-0106981236430001@sj-pm5-5-197.dialup.slip.net> I have DR2 of Rhapsody. And the following computer: Power Computing PowerCenter with EITHER 225 MHz 604E or an XLR8 233 MHz G3/512. On board video with 4 Megs of VRAM, 1-meg level-two cache. 112 Megs DRAM (1-32 meg DIMM, 1-16 meg DIMM, 1-64 meg DIMM) 8X Toshiba CD-ROM, 2-hard disks 1-1.2 Gig Fujitsu SCSI, 1-2.1 Gig Conner SCSI 1-1.5 Gig Syquest Sy-Jet removable. 1 - Zip drive (all drives internal). Installation onto Sy-jet goes well until point where drive has been initialized, then I get a dialog telling me "Rhapsody is currently unsupported on this machine. The System Disk Control Panel will have No effect." After pressing OK, I'm told to restart the machine to continue the installation when I do, the machine boots normally and when I get to desktop, the Mac OS tells me that the SyJet is not a Macintosh disk and asks me if I want to reinitialize or eject it. What is the is "System Disk Control Panel" stuff, and what is it about my configuration that is unsupported and is there any workaround? Any informed help would be greatly appreciated. Please respond to my e-mail address gmgraves@slip.net Thank you. George Graves
From: kay@buddhist.com (Kay Schulz (The Bumpui)) Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Openstep on ThinkPad Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 03:36:11 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Message-ID: <357372ef.348367055@news.nus.edu.sg> Hi is anyone aware if Openstep runs on ThinkPad 770, 14.1 ", 5 GB harddisk? Would be neat. Please email Kay Schulz C++ is to C as Lung Cancer to Lung
From: "Alexander S." <yelloweclipse@thegrid.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Openstep on ThinkPad Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:16:20 -0700 Organization: Call America Internet Services +1 (800) 563-3271 Message-ID: <6l02k6$nbq$1@zinger.callamer.com> References: <357372ef.348367055@news.nus.edu.sg> What's Openstep? Kay Schulz (The Bumpui) wrote in message <357372ef.348367055@news.nus.edu.sg>... >Hi >is anyone aware if Openstep runs on ThinkPad 770, >14.1 ", 5 GB harddisk? >Would be neat. > >Please email > >Kay Schulz >C++ is to C as Lung Cancer to Lung
From: Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Remote Printing to non-Next? Date: 2 Jun 1998 21:56:09 GMT Organization: University of Oregon, Eugene Message-ID: <6l1sdp$afn$1@pith.uoregon.edu> References: <eqmc1.28$Pv3.2355298316@ha2.ntr.net> Matt Evans <bmajik@ntr.net> wrote: > I've got a wonderful postscript laser printer hanging off a sparc machine, > but i was wondering how i could make my NS 3.1 Cube see it ? > I dont see any way to add remote printers in the PrintManager nor is there > a printcap file on my machine. Im just using local.nidb for NetInfo, I don't know about 3.1 but on 4.2 I just niload a printcap file into the database. The print manager has a facility for adding networkd printers but in my experience printcaps are at least as easy (if you are familiar with them). wes -- ~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~NeXTMail OK!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vax a vicious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its *DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users.
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Openstep on ThinkPad Date: 2 Jun 1998 22:32:31 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6l1uhv$2ki$4@news.idiom.com> References: <357372ef.348367055@news.nus.edu.sg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: kay@buddhist.com Kay Schulz (The Bumpui) may or may not have said: -> Hi -> is anyone aware if Openstep runs on ThinkPad 770, -> 14.1 ", 5 GB harddisk? I know it has run on several Thinkpad models, (Jobs actually uses one still, as I recall) but you should check the OpenStep 4.2 hardware compatibility guide. You might also want to check with the guys at Bifrost (Follow the link from www.stepwise.com). -> Would be neat. Sure would. -jcr
From: naatona@proaxis.com (MR. FATTUS) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Complete Next Turbo Color Publishing System For Sale!! Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:37:55 +0100 Organization: AQUASPHERA Message-ID: <naatona-0306981737550001@pr00-12.proaxis.net> Attention! We must sell our beloved black ³baby² to raise funds for a new G3 system. This is a very special mint condition NeXT Turbo Color Slab system with all of the works. This machine is configured for high end publishing and print work and is still very functional and cool. We would like to find a new and caring home for this unique system. We prefer to sell this as a complete system. Can ship to anywhere in the US. Asking Price Below.............Check out the features................ HARDWARE: Turbo Color Slab, one of the last off off the production line. 32 MB Ram, ABD mouse (the puck) and latest keyboard, Sound Box. Sony 17² Monitor which is in great condition and still bright and sharp NeXT 400 dpi printer with long cable, very low page count-needs new toner cartridge. Drives: Internal: Segate 250 megs for files External: Large Andataco drive box with 1.5 meg. Micropolis SCSI, room to add many drives, heavy duty fan. All SCSI cables. Ready to add Zip disk........... Zyzel 14.4 Modem with Null modem cable SOFTWARE: NS 3.2 installed on Micropolis drive. Very Stable release. Last release of Virtuoso (Next Freehand 5.0) which is still as good as any design package out. Very stable and is set up with drivers for most image setters and printers. Very reliable Postscript output. With disks and manuals. Works seamlessly with Mac versions of Freehand and Illustrator. Appsoft Image 2.0 , a rare release of this Photoshop-like imaging app which came from the developers themselves. Works well, have manuals too. Great for Web graphics.........still does things no other imaging apps can. Address Blaster: Rare but cool address/contact manager with many killer features Special release from developer himself. Wet Paint...........good paint app, with disks. Paste-Up 1.5..............basic page layout Illustrator for NS..........works fine...........good for opening Mac files Pixel Wizard...........for all file conversions....rare registered copy. Lots of Misc. graphics apps and utilities. WordPerfect.........powerful WP, works well with Mac versions. Appsoft Draw: Postscript Draw Program Data Phile: Flat file database Lots of cool apps loaded on system. Trial versions of Tiffanyy II and Compose in Color too: NX FAX, last version, rock solid FTP and faxing, fax from any app, NX fax never crashes and can send 14.4 fast faxes: fast and works great. EXTRA SCAN, scanner support for Epson ES600-800 series scanners (which can be bought cheap!) This software was 400.00 new and is no longer available. This is the coolest scanner software for NS. Rock solid way to scan into your next. (My ES-800 Scanner now hooked up to Macs) MetroTools 2.0, manager and launcher for NS. Nice utility/extension. FONTS: This is where this system rocks...........it has been tweeked to have over 350 fonts available through applications. Most fonts are Adobe converted from Mac versions via Fontographer. Many third party fonts are also resident including the best from The Fatted Calf CD ROM. For design work you will love the font collection. You can add more fonts too.....there seems to be no font limit. You can take any Mac font and use Fontographer to create a Next version.....it works! CD-ROMS: NS 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2..............Fatted Calf CD-ROM with apps, images, and fonts. Other demo CD¹s too. Will include some rare Next magazines........ This system is plug and play from my workstaion to yours........black is cool. this is a well set up system, the best of NeXT.......... $1200.00 or best offer, we had $12,000 invested in hardware/software Contact me via E-mail or call: Serious NeXT lovers only Paul Natona Design natona@proaxis.com 541-752-9661 Corvallis, Oregon
From: nospam+nospam+nospam+this+works@luomat.peak.org (Timothy J Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: X and Rhapsody? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <357498CE.9C72E9E3@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <Bz1d1.18$BE5.138588@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 01:22:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:22:41 PDT Organization: @Home Network To the best of my knowledge: X's capabilities are not the same as NXHost. NXHost was a built-in-to-every-single-app ability to run a program on one machine and display on another. While you can do this with X apps, Rhapsody/OpenStep/NeXT apps are NOT X-based. Rhapsody does not AFAIK come with an X server.... There will no doubt be at least one ported to it, as there are OpenStep versions already. I still can't see how anyone likes X, but I'm spoiled by 7 years of NeXT I guess... TjL
From: jeanpaul@cs.ualberta.ca (Jean-Paul Samson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: X and Rhapsody? Date: 3 Jun 1998 04:12:36 GMT Organization: Computing Science, U of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada Message-ID: <6l2ifk$ru3$1@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> References: <357498CE.9C72E9E3@u.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: <357498CE.9C72E9E3@u.washington.edu> On 06/02/98, "Dr. Michael Stiber" wrote: >I have a relatively simple question, and the discussions of NXHosting >have made me a little uneasy. Let me preface this by saying that I'm >not a NeXt person, so I'm unfamilar with NeXt-centric terminology versus >general Unix. For example, I haven't been able to quickly determine >whether NXHost is equivalent to setting DISPLAY for an X app, or if >it is something completely different. So, here's the question: does >Rhapsody include an X server, so I can hook my Mac to the net, run an X >program on another Unix host, and have it display on my Mac? For the laymay, NeXT's NXHosting is an equivalent feature to setting the DISPLAY in X-Windows. It lets you run an application on one machine and display/interact with it using a different machine. However NXHosting is specific to the NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/Rhapsody operating systems. You cannot run an X application and remotely display it on a NeXT machine. You must be running an independent X server on Rhapsody to get this feature; it is not provided in the operating system. Currently, there is a shareware X server under development, but I find it unstable and unusable. Jean-Paul -- -===================================================================- Jean-Paul C. Samson -===- jeanpaul@cs.ualberta.ca (NeXTmail & MIME) -=============- http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~jeanpaul -=============- -===================================================================- "Microsoft is a fact of life. They're like the air we breathe. Perhaps a better analogy is bottled water, because you have to buy it." -- Steve Jobs, Apple Computer's Worldwide Developers Conference, May 16th, 1997 -===================================================================-
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen,comp.s Subject: cmsg cancel <6kos5f$ssc$3@news.vossnet.de> Control: cancel <6kos5f$ssc$3@news.vossnet.de> Date: 03 Jun 1998 14:30:43 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6kos5f$ssc$3@news.vossnet.de> Sender: "Uwe Vogt" <tora@vossnet.de> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: X and Rhapsody? Date: 2 Jun 98 20:19:36 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Jun2201936@slave.doubleu.com> References: <357498CE.9C72E9E3@u.washington.edu> In-reply-to: "Dr. Michael Stiber"'s message of Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:29:02 -0700 In article <357498CE.9C72E9E3@u.washington.edu>, "Dr. Michael Stiber" <stiber@u.washington.edu> writes: I haven't been able to quickly determine whether NXHost is equivalent to setting DISPLAY for an X app, or if it is something completely different. NXHost provides the same functionality as setting DISPLAY for an X app, but it's implementation is completely different. So you can't NXHost a NeXT app to an X server without something magic (to do the DPS->X conversion), and likewise for using DISPLAY to a NeXT host (where you need an X server). So, here's the question: does Rhapsody include an X server, so I can hook my Mac to the net, run an X program on another Unix host, and have it display on my Mac? Rhapsody doesn't include an X server, nor does it preclude one. You need to purchase one. Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: Matt Evans <bmajik@ntr.net> Subject: Re: Remote Printing to non-Next? Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <eqmc1.28$Pv3.2355298316@ha2.ntr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <f8wd1.11$sQ5.653590564@ha2.ntr.net> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:09:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 08:09:47 EDT Organization: ntr.net Corporation In comp.sys.next.misc Matt Evans <bmajik@ntr.net> wrote: > I've got a wonderful postscript laser printer hanging off a sparc machine, > but i was wondering how i could make my NS 3.1 Cube see it ? well thanks to all the fine folks that emailed me, a) i got it working b) i know about niload/nidump :) thanks again, Matt -- ************************************************************************* * Matt Evans ntr.net Corporation * * ntr.net Corporation - Development Group http://www.ntr.net * * bmajik@ntr.net (502) 583 3777 * *************************************************************************
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6l4dim$o4m$14031@news.cybercity.dk> Control: cancel <6l4dim$o4m$14031@news.cybercity.dk> Date: 04 Jun 1998 14:10:44 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6l4dim$o4m$14031@news.cybercity.dk> Sender: S A F<myemail@any.where.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FOR SALE From: srumqtcphoki@connect.ab.ca Organization: Your Organization Message-ID: <3576bb36.0@skylite.connect.ab.ca> Date: 4 Jun 98 15:20:22 GMT "RED HOT" E-MAIL LISTS!!!! Mail Order Names That Fill Your Mail Box With "Cash Orders" And Your Order Is " TRIPLED FREE!" Get Them While They are Hot! Fresh, Accurate & Responsive E-Mails At Unbeatable Prices! For Info: hoki@connect.ab.ca I.Q. QUALITY LISTS Inc Glenora Box 53025 Edmonton, AB T5N-4A8 Canada
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3576bb36.0@skylite.connect.ab.ca> Control: cancel <3576bb36.0@skylite.connect.ab.ca> Date: 04 Jun 1998 21:17:09 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3576bb36.0@skylite.connect.ab.ca> Sender: srumqtcphoki@connect.ab.ca Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Juicylucy" <gilsdio@nospam.tip.nl> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FREE WEBSITE Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:35:41 +0200 Organization: NL-NIC Message-ID: <6l852d$f7t$26@cadmium.aware.nl> http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/gilsdio/ click the free website banner
From: nicolas.marzin@wanadoo.fr (Nicolas Marzin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: driver for Millenium AGP Date: 4 Jun 1998 21:08:22 GMT Organization: Fun, Inc. Message-ID: <nicolas.marzin-0406982311380001@bjn14-87.abo.wanadoo.fr> Hi, I can't setup OpenSTEP 4.2 (intel) for my Millenium II AGP card. Does it accepts AGP bus ? than you, Nicolas nicolas.marzin@wanadoo.fr
From: jdd@efn.org Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTanswers www site implementation Date: 5 Jun 1998 19:17:11 GMT Organization: Oregon Public Networking Message-ID: <6l9g7n$hp2$1@haus.efn.org> I recently bought a color turbo slab, and then also acquired NS 3.3 for Intel and began the grueling process of installing it on hardware that had been built without regard to the Compatibility List... and throughout all this, I've become incredibly impressed with the website at ent.apple.com/NeXTanswers. I'm thinking of modeling one after it at OPN for all Eugene Freenet documentation. (And if Apple actually wants to salvage some value out of their investment, maybe they should do the same...) Browsing through NeXTanswers certainly makes it seem as though NeXT was rather productive and well-run, compared to some of its cometitors. So I'm also curious as to how employees at NeXT submitted, categorized, and maintained the NeXTanswers prior to its www interface. So, can anyone tell me about the implementation details of all this? ----- John David Duncan -- OPN Systems Administrator
From: Bob <bschulze@dnaco.nospam.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Serial on DR2 (+floppy) Date: 5 Jun 1998 20:16:17 GMT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6l9jmh$pc6$1@news4.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Jun 1998 20:16:17 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980202 (UNIX) (SunOS/4.1.4 (sun4c)) Anybody have any luck enabling the serial ports in DR2? I still get only Ethernet and No Connection in the Network prefs. Yes, I read the technote about editing 0300_Devices. Still doesn't work. On a related note, does ANYTHING on the Mac side read a Rhapsody-formatted floppy? Reply by email if possible, after taking out the "nospam". Bob Schulze bschulze@dnaco.nospam.net
From: The Goldbergs <kalbah@concentric.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Could cloining be coming back? Date: 06 Jun 1998 11:46:20 EDT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading about the iMac, I had some ideas about how cloning could be coming back. Some intersting observations: The iMac's architecture is derived from CHRP. CHRP does exist, with one problem: the MacOS still requires Mac ROMs. So while anyone can make a PPC machine, it can't run the MacOS. The thing is, however, that MacOS 8 and higher DOES have CHRP support (from what I've read on the net). It's a good thing it does, because the iMac only has OpenFirmware ROM (no Mac toolbox). This means that the MacOS will officially support the use of the sw ROM image that can be installed. MacOSX/Rhapsody doesn't even use a ROM image as it doesn't use Mac ROMs. Also, the iMac doesn't contain the ADB port, which is the only one that Apple owns. In conclusion... ...Mac cloning may be revived! The main problem with cloning as it used to be is that cloners had to get ROMs, ADB, and the motherboard from Apple with the license. All clones had to be inspected by Apple to ensure that its parts were being used exactly as they should. The whole process turned out to be very unprofitable for Apple, and on top of it the clones were simply eating away at Apple's own market share instead of expanding the Mac market. So the alleged plan is to make Macs popular again, with new users joining the flock. Then with the rapidly expanding market, they could start licensing the MacOS/X/Rhapsody, and ONLY have to license the sw. With more choice, even more people will buy Macs/Mac compatibles. Microsoft's (and soon, Intel's) legal troubles will make people look at the alternatives more as well. Power users will be frustrated by the delays in Merced and look to G4s. Consumers are always frustrated with how hard it is to use Windoze and they'll also take another look. On top of all that, who knows what other surprises Apple has coming down the pike? Just my 2 cents. Rafi Goldberg
From: "Sarawoot Chittratanawat" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: BlackHole? Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:08:52 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6lc0nd$1l4i$1@news.missouri.edu> Where's BlackHoleInc webpage? I went to http://www.blackholeinc.com and it switches to http://www.media3.net/, which is an ISP. Sarawoot
From: "Cliff Leong" <zmendel@home.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <6lc0nd$1l4i$1@news.missouri.edu> Subject: Re: BlackHole? Message-ID: <rPfe1.330$BE5.2321974@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 18:24:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 11:24:23 PDT Organization: @Home Network Media3 blew away their web pages. You can contact Rob Blessin (of Black Hole) at bhi1@ix.netcom.com . Cliff Sarawoot Chittratanawat wrote in message <6lc0nd$1l4i$1@news.missouri.edu>... >Where's BlackHoleInc webpage? >I went to http://www.blackholeinc.com and it switches to >http://www.media3.net/, which is an ISP. >Sarawoot > >
From: nunya@baker.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 12:00:03 PDT Subject: For YOU!! Organization: Email Platinum v.3.1b Message-ID: <3578c185.0@news> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is sent 'as a paid for service' by Johnson Advertising. Our Clients pay for advertising on a per response basis. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of our Clients is giving away a free phone card worth 50 free minutes to all United States residents who send a #10 self-addressed stamped envelope to Johnson Advertising Post Office Box 309 Mount Union, Pennsylvania 17066
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3578c185.0@news> Control: cancel <3578c185.0@news> Date: 06 Jun 1998 19:58:42 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3578c185.0@news> Sender: nunya@baker.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: rraman@osf1.gmu.edu (RAVISHANKAR RAMANATHAN) Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.motherboards,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ASUS P2BLS or TYAN S1836DLUAN Date: 7 Jun 1998 01:08:40 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA Message-ID: <6lcp6o$cfo@portal.gmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all: I looking to put together a system to run Solaris/x86 and OpenStep. I have narrowed my search to the following two motherboards. If any of you have opinions on these I would really appreciate hearing them. TYAN Thunder 100Pro S1836DLUAN - Dual CPU (not so keen about it under OS) - LAN - UW SCSI - Sound ASUS P2B-LS - Single CPU - LAN - UW SCSI Thanks in advance Ravi
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <3654896587219@digifix.com> Date: 7 Jun 1998 03:49:08 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <3379897192022@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: steve2@jojo.bio.uci.edu (Steven Frank) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Translating Virtuoso to Freehand or AI format Date: 7 Jun 1998 17:18:59 GMT Organization: University of California, Irvine Message-ID: <6lei23$1p0@news.service.uci.edu> I have used NeXTstep for years, and have many graphic files created with Virtuoso. I will be moving to Rhapsody / Blue Box. Any advice on how to translate Virtuoso files into files that can be edited by Freehand or Adobe Illustrator? Steve Frank safrank@uci.edu
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Translating Virtuoso to Freehand or AI format Message-ID: <1998060723234300.TAA18975@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 07 Jun 1998 23:23:43 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <1998060720535300.QAA02110@ladder03.news.aol.com> One thing I failed to mention is that it's Virtuoso 2.0(Gold?) which has the transparent compatibility with FH4, being essentially identical to the latter, which is more-or-less Virtuoso ported to the Mac/Windows. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: marathon@milehigh.on.ca (Marathon) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Message-ID: <marathon-0706982103550001@ppp1070.on.bellglobal.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com> <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net> <THISPARTISFAKEkurtg-0706981433080001@rn.fi.ameslab.gov> Organization: GREENriver u"XJXHl(.@gS@|BpW7i6qpdC?I*JHAc0yIFjA4wgNnUY,:f#|DZ:7#ZIil+.2F/p(AjP Ec3{^>A@A+V%CPG@:D46Lka=Beb8k0|<{cwtiTcB.sLT'tvz=uY(O!=8- Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 01:05:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 21:05:00 EDT In article <THISPARTISFAKEkurtg-0706981433080001@rn.fi.ameslab.gov>, THISPARTISFAKEkurtg@iastate.edu (Kurt Glaesemann) wrote: > €In article <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "William R. > €Cousert" <lcgraphics@email.msn.com> wrote: > € > €> I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new > €> standard? If so, how many slots can you have? > € > €There are some RS/6000's with several dozen PCI slots. The 9600 Mach 4 300mhz has 6 slots. -- Marathon --------------------------------------------------------- email address in my header in incorrect. Please use this one: <M 2938748 at idirect dot com>
From: "William R. Cousert" <lcgraphics@email.msn.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com> Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 12:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new standard? If so, how many slots can you have? Peter Bjørn Perlsø wrote in message <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com>... >1) Mac OS X will be able to boot of a open firm-ware. >2) Future Macs will not have proprietary ROM's >3) Apple is negotiating with an undisclosed 3rd party to build a megatower >with 6 PCI slots for them. > >So cloning is not a closed chapter. > > >+-----------------------------------------+ >I A computer without Windows I >I is like a fish without a bicycle I >+-----------------------------------------+ >
From: PMaeteici@NOSPAMaol.com (Paul McGrane) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Message-ID: <PMaeteici-0706981520140001@cc962257-a.vron1.nj.home.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com> <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 19:19:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 12:19:55 PDT Organization: @Home Network In article <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "William R. Cousert" <lcgraphics@email.msn.com> wrote: > I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new > standard? If so, how many slots can you have? > It's not like this is new, there have been macs out with 6 PCI slots for 3 years already! I do remember that at least one cloner's 6 slot system was really two sets of 3 underneath. Not sure about how Apple's were set up. ...Paul McGrane
From: THISPARTISFAKEkurtg@iastate.edu (Kurt Glaesemann) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 14:33:08 -0500 Organization: Iowa State University Message-ID: <THISPARTISFAKEkurtg-0706981433080001@rn.fi.ameslab.gov> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com> <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net> G!&hNAq&x@f8vWD7fT!t-u^GqJSXH In article <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "William R. Cousert" <lcgraphics@email.msn.com> wrote: > I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new > standard? If so, how many slots can you have? There are some RS/6000's with several dozen PCI slots. -- Kurt Glaesemann (real e-mail has no double @) Physical Chemistry Graduate Student Iowa State University of Science and Technology
From: yobkpkif@hello.com Subject: LATEST SOFTWARES($6 UP), WIN98 OEM($25), PSX GAMES, PCGAMES AND MORE $4 UP Message-ID: <7Z9ZoJek9GA.110@news.powernethk.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 15:03:43 +0800 For info icq # 13106356 Thank you and have a nice day
From: m rassbach <mark@milestonerdl.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 11:19:08 -0500 Organization: Inc.Net http://www.inc.net Message-ID: <357ABD7C.B65C356@milestonerdl.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Goldbergs wrote: > In conclusion... > > ...Mac cloning may be revived! Interesting analysis but: 1) MacOS is a niche market machine. Any cloner would have to be happy with a %age of 4% of the overall market. 2) Any cloner would have to be content with the Apple stranglehold on MacOS. This is a stanglehold dedicated to selling Apple branded hardware. 3) Cloners would have to be comfortable being a 'business partner' with Apple. Given how the last batch of Apple partners have been treated (Newton VARS/OpenDOC/Apple VARS who were axed) how many will follow in UMAX/Motorola/PowerComputing's footsteps? Technology is one thing, but the politics are another. Politics are why it won't happen.
From: "original_graphic" <original_graphic@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FA: Alembic CD for NeXT Machine (Auction) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 15:02:52 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6les13$n2o$1@news.missouri.edu> FA: Alembic CD for NeXT Machine (Auction) Alembic CD for NeXT Machine is listed for auction at eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=16676127 Lots of shareware and demo software in this cool CD. To explore the application of NeXT world, both reviews and somes are demo version, this CD is what you are looking for. This CD is slightly used; infact, just for study for a while. I'm in a BIG need to get some money for this summer. Hence, let it go :( Winner takes care shipping/handling for only US$3.00 by US priority mail. Prepayment is required. Personal check is needed to wait for clear. Money Order will ship in the same day I recieve your money order. Any problem? Let me know at original_graphic@yahoo.com -- Best Regards, original_graphic@yahoo.com
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Translating Virtuoso to Freehand or AI format Message-ID: <1998060720535300.QAA02110@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 07 Jun 1998 20:53:53 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6lei23$1p0@news.service.uci.edu> No translation necessary for Virtuoso -> Freehand the file format is identical. Under Windows, just rename the file to match the name of the .vrt directory its in and append .fh4 to the name. Actually, on my Cube, I keep most of my documents as .fh4 files since that gives them a distinct icon from the Virtuoso app and makes it easier to open them on my laptop running Win95 with FH5. Now, if I could only persuade Freehand to open .FH4 files with a double-click in Explorer ::sigh:: If you still have your NeXT and Virtuoso you can file save as a format which Illustrator can handle, but this tends to alter the linebreaks. Besides, who'd want Illustrator? ::blech:: William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <7Z9ZoJek9GA.110@news.powernethk.com> Control: cancel <7Z9ZoJek9GA.110@news.powernethk.com> Date: 08 Jun 1998 01:42:50 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.7Z9ZoJek9GA.110@news.powernethk.com> Sender: yobkpkif@hello.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: nospamhattonr@aug.com (Rick) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 21:21:14 -0400 Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Message-ID: <19980607212114321905@ts4-01.aug.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357ABD7C.B65C356@milestonerdl.com> m rassbach <mark@milestonerdl.com> wrote: > The Goldbergs wrote: > > > In conclusion... > > > > ...Mac cloning may be revived! > > Interesting analysis but: > > 1) MacOS is a niche market machine. Any cloner would have to be happy with > a %age of 4% of the overall market. > 2) Any cloner would have to be content with the Apple stranglehold on > MacOS. This is a stanglehold dedicated to selling Apple branded hardware. > 3) Cloners would have to be comfortable being a 'business partner' with > Apple. > > Given how the last batch of Apple partners have been treated (Newton > VARS/OpenDOC/Apple VARS who were axed) how many will follow in > UMAX/Motorola/PowerComputing's footsteps? > > Technology is one thing, but the politics are another. Politics are why it > won't happen. It will intersting to see what happens when the MacROM-less-open firmware Macs are shipped. The iMac is supposed to be MacROM-less and OpenFirmware. CHRP may revive as a platform for Be, Amiga and (gasp) the Mac. -- *** To reply via email remove nospam from my return address. ***
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: 7 Jun 98 23:08:59 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Jun7230859@slave.doubleu.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com> <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net> In-reply-to: "William R. Cousert"'s message of Sun, 7 Jun 1998 12:07:31 -0700 In article <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "William R. Cousert" <lcgraphics@email.msn.com> writes: I thought the PCI standard allowed for only four slots? Is there a new standard? If so, how many slots can you have? As I understnad it, PCI allows for 10 "loads". I think the PCI controller is a load, and the built-in chipset (EIDE, PCI-ISA bridge, etc) is generally a load. Each slot takes two loads, thus you generally get four slots. Other on-board should only require one load, so you could put SCSI and ethernet on-board with one load apiece. Very well designed PC motherboards sometimes can manage another slot. The cheaper boards can't do this reliably, though. Also, you can use PCI bridges to add slots. Essentially the bridge sits between two seperate PCI busses. And, of course, there's no reason you couldn't have two seperate busses built-in. Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: rmcassid@uci.edu (Robert Cassidy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 23:52:27 -0800 Organization: UC Irvine Message-ID: <rmcassid-0706982352270001@dialin9080.slip.uci.edu> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> <357aa69c.0@d2o101.telia.com> <e2Fpubkk9GA.238@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net> <PMaeteici-0706981520140001@cc962257-a.vron1.nj.home.com> In article <PMaeteici-0706981520140001@cc962257-a.vron1.nj.home.com>, PMaeteici@NOSPAMaol.com (Paul McGrane) wrote: > It's not like this is new, there have been macs out with 6 PCI slots for 3 > years already! I do remember that at least one cloner's 6 slot system was > really two sets of 3 underneath. Not sure about how Apple's were set up. All Apple and clone Macintosh 6 slot systems are dual busses with a bridge chip. -Bob Cassidy
Message-ID: <357C2B44.63DFA356@wildfire.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 14:19:48 -0400 From: Tony Lovell <tone@wildfire.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need info: ADB Digital sound card for N/I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. I do digital recording on a Next Cube with the Digital Ears kit. For various reasons, we'd like to move our recording app to an intel box running NextStep (OpenStep?). Someone said that the ADB Digital (Pro 18?) card had EXCELLENT recording qualities and a NextSTEP driver for freeware written by someone at Harvard. At present (on black hardware), we record into 22KHz 16 bit linear. Will the ADB card do this with the driver I allude to? Does anyone have more info on this driver and which version of the OS it works with? Thanks in advance -- reply to tony at wildfire.com tony
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <357b6791.0@news> Control: cancel <357b6791.0@news> Date: 09 Jun 1998 03:37:18 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.357b6791.0@news> Sender: nunya@baker.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: pr_posts@see_sig.net (Phil Robinson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT hardware websites/FAQs? Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 23:05:36 -0500 Organization: Ameritech.Net http://www.ameritech.net/ Message-ID: <pr_posts-0806982305360001@dyn1-tnt4-163.chicago.il.ameritech.net> NeXT hardware websites/FAQs? Does anyone know of any good websites for NeXT hardware information or know where I can find any FAQs on NeXT hardware? There seems to be plenty of info for NeXTstep but thats about it. I seem to recall a website with a ton of NeXT links but it seems to have vanished. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Note: In order to reply you must use the email address below. Just remove the NOSPAM part from the address: Phil Robinson pr_posts@NOSPAMameritech.net
Subject: Re: Scanner driver for UMAX 1220S? Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <6lhh70$lod@news.service.uci.edu> In-Reply-To: <6lhh70$lod@news.service.uci.edu> From: jmeacham@charm.net Message-ID: <Xudf1.1$4k3.23258@news-read1.qis.net> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 16:35:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 12:35:03 EDT On 06/08/98, Steven Frank wrote: Have you tried PowerScan, which came with the HSD/UMAX scanner eaons ago. It has worked with every UMAX SCSI scanner I've ever tried with it? Good luck, James -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Rev. James David Meacham--Minister, Webmaster, Philosopher Phone: 410-467-9620 ƒ Fax 410-467-9630 ƒ Pager 410-619-6760 See Gabriel Meacham at http://www.qis.net/~jmeacham/gabriel.html "If people did not sometimes do silly things, nothing intelligent would ever get done." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
From: xray@cs.brandeis.edu (Nathan G. Raymond) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Where NeXT printer-repair archive? Date: 9 Jun 1998 21:02:54 GMT Organization: Brandeis University - Computer Science Dept. Message-ID: <6lk7tu$4e6$1@new-news.cc.brandeis.edu> References: <6ljukh$43s$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> In article <6ljukh$43s$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca (Seamus Dunne) writes: >Hi > >I searched for but cannot find an archive or source of info for >do-it-yourself NeXT laser printer repairs. [in my case, the printer will >no longer pull the blank sheet into the machine; I've opened it >up---nothing obviously wrong] I've searched peak.org and everywhere I can >think of. Can anyone help? > >Thanks Reply to dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca & appropriate NeXT group. >-- >If I can't die happily-- >I'd rather not die at all. > Anon Check out: http://www.deepspacetech.com/Info/next_printer_page.htm -- Nathan Raymond http://www.everythingmac.com
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Could cloining be coming back? Date: 7 Jun 98 23:04:32 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Jun7230432@slave.doubleu.com> References: <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net> In-reply-to: The Goldbergs's message of 06 Jun 1998 11:46:20 EDT In article <3579649C.99FB832@concentric.net>, The Goldbergs <kalbah@concentric.net> writes: After reading about the iMac, I had some ideas about how cloning could be coming back. Some intersting observations: The iMac's architecture is derived from CHRP. CHRP does exist, with one problem: the MacOS still requires Mac ROMs. So while anyone can make a PPC machine, it can't run the MacOS. My speculation, back before Apple killed cloning entirely, was that they wouldn't come out with a MacOS with full CHRP support - instead, they'd just put CHRP support in Rhapsody, which is a much simpler problem to solve. The advantage of this is that they would then have a set of captive advertisers - the cloners would all have to push Rhapsody, and _hard_, to make a good go of it. This idea was so simple, so obvious, that I figured there was NO WAY it wasn't what was happening. Apple proved me wrong, sigh. On top of all that, who knows what other surprises Apple has coming down the pike? Which will be the main reason they won't find many takers if they ever open up to cloning again. Fool me twice, I'm the fool... -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca (Seamus Dunne) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Where NeXT printer-repair archive? Date: 9 Jun 1998 18:24:17 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Message-ID: <6ljukh$43s$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Hi I searched for but cannot find an archive or source of info for do-it-yourself NeXT laser printer repairs. [in my case, the printer will no longer pull the blank sheet into the machine; I've opened it up---nothing obviously wrong] I've searched peak.org and everywhere I can think of. Can anyone help? Thanks Reply to dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca & appropriate NeXT group. -- If I can't die happily-- I'd rather not die at all. Anon
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Where NeXT printer-repair archive? Date: 10 Jun 1998 04:42:25 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <6ll2rh$i3v$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <6ljukh$43s$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca In <6ljukh$43s$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Seamus Dunne wrote: > Hi > > I searched for but cannot find an archive or source of info for > do-it-yourself NeXT laser printer repairs. [in my case, the printer will > no longer pull the blank sheet into the machine; I've opened it > up---nothing obviously wrong] I've searched peak.org and everywhere I can > think of. Can anyone help? > > Thanks Reply to dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca & appropriate NeXT group. > http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/Black/Laser/index.html You'll want to check out the TroubleShooting guide - which only comments on the two most common NeXT Laser Printer problems which yours falls into (Feed Roller problem). It also includes step-by-step replacement instructions - or you can see TJL's pages which describe a renewal process. http://www.peak.org/~luomat/articles/NeXT-Printer-Info-Sheet.html the information at deepspace is at best a temporary fix as I've done a similiar cleaning procedure on a number of printers with only limited success (it worked for a little while - leave your printer for a few days w/o use and it'll gack again - the feed roller works better when wet IMHO - ). http://www.deepspacetech.com/Info/next_printer_page.htm The best solution is to replace the roller. It's not that difficult. Randy rencsok at channelu dot com argus dot cem dot msu dot edu spammers works also :) Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.)
From: jonasw@lysator.liu.se (Jonas Wallden) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rhapsody, Terminal.app and iso-8859-1 Date: 10 Jun 1998 12:03:56 GMT Organization: Linköping University, Sweden Message-ID: <6llsnc$t8d$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Is there anyone that has been able to get Terminal.app in DR1 or DR2 to input and display iso-8859-1 characters correctly? My experience so far is that Terminal.app is lacking the necessary conversion. Running over a remote login works just fine, though (it gives the expected latin-1 character values in e.g. Emacs) so the shell or Emacs really can't be the problem. So, is there any setting that I've overlooked, or do I have to ask Apple to provide a fix? By the way, are there any usable international keyboard layouts available for downloading somewhere on the net? The standard ones are not adapted for my Swedish Apple Extended Keyboard II and DR2 won't mount my DR1 partition so I can't access the layout I created last year... Thanks in advance, -- Jonas ............... ....................... ................................... jonas wallden internet e-mail world wide web home page mac hacker jonasw@lysator.liu.se http://www.lysator.liu.se/~jonasw
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (Tj Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Where can I find out more information about the NetBSD port for NeXT hardware? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <VAwf1.34137$BE5.4409354@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:18:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:18:29 PDT Organization: @Home Network I subscribed to the the mailing list and went to the page http://www.NetBSD.ORG/Ports/next68k/index.html but the page comes up 404. I'm pretty excited about this unexpected development! TjL
From: marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody, Terminal.app and iso-8859-1 Date: 10 Jun 1998 16:28:18 GMT Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany Message-ID: <6lmc72$mnl$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <6llsnc$t8d$1@newsy.ifm.liu.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit jonasw@lysator.liu.se (Jonas Wallden) writes: >Is there anyone that has been able to get Terminal.app in DR1 or DR2 to >input and display iso-8859-1 characters correctly? My experience so far >is that Terminal.app is lacking the necessary conversion. Running over >a remote login works just fine, though (it gives the expected latin-1 >character values in e.g. Emacs) so the shell or Emacs really can't be >the problem. My G3 just arrived, but on NS/OS, I followed some instructions from the news to create a copy of the Ohlfs font with ISO encoding. At least for reading that was OK. Marcel
From: heller@altoetting-online.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT hardware websites/FAQs? Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:38:11 GMT Organization: Barb & Helmut Heller Sender: heller@heller.altoetting-online.de (Helmut Heller) Message-ID: <EuFBnn.Ezy@heller.altoetting-online.de> References: <pr_posts-0806982305360001@dyn1-tnt4-163.chicago.il.ameritech.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <pr_posts-0806982305360001@dyn1-tnt4-163.chicago.il.ameritech.net> pr_posts@see_sig.net (Phil Robinson) writes: > NeXT hardware websites/FAQs? > > Does anyone know of any good websites for NeXT hardware information or > know where I can find any FAQs on NeXT hardware? There seems to be plenty > of info for NeXTstep but thats about it. I seem to recall a website with > a ton of NeXT links but it seems to have vanished. Any help would be > appreciated. Thanks. I have a few very specific HW infos concerning power supply repair at my site: http://www.lrz.de/~heller Bye, Helmut -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@altoetting-online.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <mXag1.25137$xE3.8083324@axe.netdoor.com> Control: cancel <mXag1.25137$xE3.8083324@axe.netdoor.com> Date: 12 Jun 1998 14:29:38 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.mXag1.25137$xE3.8083324@axe.netdoor.com> Sender: muwxtgnk@aol.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <lXag1.25136$xE3.8083324@axe.netdoor.com> Control: cancel <lXag1.25136$xE3.8083324@axe.netdoor.com> Date: 12 Jun 1998 14:29:38 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.lXag1.25136$xE3.8083324@axe.netdoor.com> Sender: xwyrorhn@aol.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Anthony D. Schneider" <Daveschneider@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: BIG RIPOFF Date: 13 Jun 1998 02:27:11 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <6lso1v$41a@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> THIS OUTFIT WILL RIP YOUR MONEY OFF AND YOU WILL GET NOTHING DIGITAL ANXIETIES www.iavbbs.com/nmm THEY GOT US FOR $ 250.00 DOLLARS AT DAYTON HAMVENTION...... OUR CALLS ARE NEVER RETURNED............THE PRODUCT WE PAID FOR WAS NEVER SENT........AND CALL AFTER CALL GETS AN ANSWERING MACHINE. JUST ANOTHER BROKE FLY-BY-NIGHT COMPUTER COMPANY WITH OUT AS MUCH AS A FAX MACHINE begin 600 rip.jpg M_]C_X `02D9)1@`!`0$!+ $L``#_VP!#``4#! 0$`P4$! 0%!04&!PP(!P<' M!P\+"PD,$0\2$A$/$1$3%AP7$Q0:%1$1&"$8&AT='Q\?$Q<B)"(>)!P>'Q[_ MVP!#`04%!0<&!PX(" X>%!$4'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX> M'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'AX>'A[_P `1" %*`BL#`2(``A$!`Q$!_\0` M'P```04!`0$!`0$```````````$"`P0%!@<("0H+_\0`M1 ``@$#`P($`P4% M! 0```%]`0(#``01!1(A,4$&$U%A!R)Q%#*!D:$((T*QP152T? 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From: Laurent Curnier <Laurent.Curnier@loria.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Pb : Bad shared Library Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 14:29:19 +0200 Organization: INRIA Message-ID: <3582709F.587BD273@loria.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone has encountered the error "Bad shared Library" with some LightHouse products like OpenWrite and Quantrix ?? I use NS3.0 on a NeXTCube. Any help would be appreciated. Laurent Curnier --
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Pb : Bad shared Library Followup-To: comp.sys.next.software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3582709F.587BD273@loria.fr> Message-ID: <Qixg1.34296$BE5.6255150@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:56:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 08:56:32 PDT Organization: @Home Network NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE In <3582709F.587BD273@loria.fr> Laurent Curnier wrote: > > Anyone has encountered the error "Bad shared Library" with some > LightHouse products like OpenWrite and Quantrix ?? > > I use NS3.0 on a NeXTCube. I believe you would need at least 3.2 to use those apps. TjL -- "soon": (adv) a time interval somewhere between this afternoon and the end of the world, if all goes as according to plan" -- From the Dictionary for Marketing
From: Patty <pg@simplynet.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: Friends/Lovers Date: 13 Jun 98 14:49:04 -0700 Organization: gte.net Message-ID: <6luks4$a30$30@news-1.news.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0C34A4256171" content-length: 255 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0C34A4256171 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Find friends, lovers and sole mates... http://www.simplynet.net/pg/ --------------0C34A4256171--
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.bsdi.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6luks4$a30$30@news-1.news.gte.net> Control: cancel <6luks4$a30$30@news-1.news.gte.net> Date: 13 Jun 1998 19:45:55 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6luks4$a30$30@news-1.news.gte.net> Sender: Patty <pg@simplynet.net> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6lve56$q04$5903@news0-alterdial.uu.net> Control: cancel <6lve56$q04$5903@news0-alterdial.uu.net> Date: 14 Jun 1998 02:56:45 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6lve56$q04$5903@news0-alterdial.uu.net> Sender: <kevin@vc1.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <3379897192022@digifix.com> Date: 14 Jun 1998 03:49:15 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <28217897796825@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130698182206@sex.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <130698182206@sex.com> Message-ID: <cancel.130698182206@sex.com> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:09:25 +0000 Sender: DeamOn@sex.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - multiposted binary files BI=412/1 SPAM ID=t+IwBV/lj92vkS+qqeJ+zg==
From: KissMe@hotandwet.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FREE INTERNET GAMES! Win CASH and PRIZES! Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 08:55:16 -0700 Organization: User 4532 Message-ID: <140698085516@hotandwet.com> begin 644 TRIVIACHALLANGE.html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end =>=<<>=<><=<<>=<=><>
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <140698085516@hotandwet.com> Control: cancel <140698085516@hotandwet.com> Date: 14 Jun 1998 13:21:14 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.140698085516@hotandwet.com> Sender: KissMe@hotandwet.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6m42d1$8le$1@taiwan.informatik.unirostock.de> Control: cancel <6m42d1$8le$1@taiwan.informatik.unirostock.de> Date: 15 Jun 1998 21:41:57 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6m42d1$8le$1@taiwan.informatik.unirostock.de> Sender: support@ebaytech.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: SCSI 1 compatible hard drives ? Date: 16 Jun 1998 15:15:38 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6m626q$d9i$3@news.spacelab.net> References: <6m4do8$ihv$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com> John Badanes <teo@XXXtaconic.net> wrote: >I just got off the phone with Quantum inquiring about a new hard >drive for my old NeXT. They told me that they currently do not >make a hard drive that is [backward] compatible with SCSCI 1. I >had been thinking about getting their Fireball 2.1 gig HD, but >was discouraged from doing so after I heard this. > >What's the deal? If it's true, what HDs are people buying these >days that are more or less (mostly more) "plug-and-play" SCSCI >1 compatible? SCSI-2 was designed to be upwardly compatible with SCSI-1. Any SCSI-2 drive that supports disabling parity should work-- that's about all you need to check.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+-------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: John Hornkvist <sorry@no.more.spams> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: SCSI 1 compatible hard drives ? Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 16:50:13 GMT Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Högskola Sender: john@haddock.cd.chalmers.se (John Hprnkvist) Message-ID: <EunLFp.LM1@haddock.cd.chalmers.se> References: <6m4do8$ihv$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com> <6m626q$d9i$3@news.spacelab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: chuck@codefab.com In <6m626q$d9i$3@news.spacelab.net> "Charles W. Swiger" wrote: > SCSI-2 was designed to be upwardly compatible with SCSI-1. Any SCSI-2 drive > that supports disabling parity should work-- that's about all you need to > check.... The NeXT hardware doesn't support sync, IIRC, which means that you need a drive that starts up in asynchrounous mode. Regards, John Hornkvist Name:nhoj Address:cd.chalmers.se
From: nicolas.marzin@wanadoo.fr (Nicolas Marzin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Problem with AGP graphic card Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:08:53 +0100 Organization: Fun, Inc. Message-ID: <nicolas.marzin-1706981708530001@bjn11-253.abo.wanadoo.fr> Hi all ! I couldn't setup my Mach User (for PC) 4.2 with any of the following cards : - Matrox millenium II AGP 4Mo - ATI Rage PRo AGP 4Mo I found both drivers on NextAnswers that are said to work fine, but i could not use any. is there any 'expert setting' to set manually ? the 'Configure' app does NOT recognize automatically my card and even if i add the driver in the configuration, after reboot the system throws error messages and starts with simple standard VGA mode. If you experienced such problem or know how to set it up, please leave me a little message :) Thank you very much !!! Nicolas (SETICS - FRANCE) nicolas.marzin@wanadoo.fr setics@compuserve.com
From: tjhuang@ms8.hinet.net () Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: When to find chinese fonts for OpenSTEP 4.1 Intel? Date: 17 Jun 1998 16:39:48 GMT Organization: DCI HiNet Message-ID: <6m8rgk$8h7@netnews.hinet.net> NNTP-Posting-User: tjhuang Can someone tell me where I can get chinese fonts for OpenStep 4.1 x86? Many thanks. Regards, Ron TJ HUANG
From: Car Subject: Drive any new car for $100 p/month. Message-ID: <1Mvkjyom9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 02:42:26 -0500 Drive any new car for $100 p/month. Any Make Any Model Any Price No Down Payment! No Bank Fees! No Security Deposits! Home Based Biz. Opportunity-NOT MLM! For more information, call 716-389-9669 and a live operator will take down your Name, Address, Phone, Fax (optional), and email (optional) so that we can send you an information package. It is important that you give this information, since we will not send any info without it.
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT util to extract DOS self-extracting archives? Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:07:13 GMT Organization: The World's Usenet -- http://www.Supernews.com Message-ID: <6malc1$pfr$1@supernews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The files in question have the .exe extension, and when I passed them through unzip, I got this: 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 5 Mar 20 12:16 Disk1.id 90 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 45312 Jan 18 1997 Setup.exe 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 28 Mar 20 12:15 Setup.ini 136 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 68967 Jun 6 1997 Setup.ins 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 519 Mar 20 12:15 Setup.iss 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 580 Mar 20 12:16 Setup.pkg 656 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 320411 Jan 18 1997 _inst32i.ex_ 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 8192 Sep 7 1995 _isdel.exe 944 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 473392 Mar 20 12:16 _setup.1 12 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 6128 Dec 19 1996 _setup.dll 464 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcr bin 225611 Mar 20 12:15 _setup.lib The file Setup.pkg appears to contain an ASCII listing of the files that this mess will ultimately spit out. With a bit of detective work, I've determined that _setup.1 actually contains the data, but I haven't been able to figure out what combination of files yields a valid .gz or .tar.gz archive. Any ideas? (Yes, I've already cursed the person who sent me these useless files. Proprietary archive formats... What a cretin.) advTHANKSance, -jcr
From: GUERIN Sylvain 3A <Joel.BROBECKER@enst-bretagne.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Problem with ZoomScrollView Date: 18 Jun 1998 11:38:00 +0200 Organization: Telecom Bretagne Sender: guerin@zion.enst-bretagne.fr Message-ID: <r93ed32gp3.fsf@zion.enst-bretagne.fr> --------------------------- We are having problem with rizing a ZoomScrollView. The content of the view is composed of two things: 1) a cache image which is copied from a NSImage 2) some postscript element drawn above the cached image. When zoom is < 100% there is no problem, but for zoom > 100%, is appeared right at first but as soon as we scroll the cached view is not upadated and we got garbage. Actually since for a zoom > 100% teh bound rect is < to the frame rect the NSSCroller is restricted to the bounds rect which is smaller than the Frame. We have tried everything including reallocating a bigger cache, with no success. The scrollview is declared with the following: [scrollView setCopiesOnScroll:NO]; [[self contentView] setAutoresizesSubviews:YES]; and here is the drawRect: // ====================================================================== // this is the drawing with caheing in cacheImage var - (void)drawRect:(NSRect)rects; { int j; if (cacheingFlag) { // draw in the cache [cacheImage lockFocus]; [[NSColor grayColor] set]; NSRectFill(rects); for (j=0; j< [displayList count]; j++) { [[displayList objectAtIndex: j] drawPSInView:self]; } [cacheImage unlockFocus]; } else { // swap the content of the cache in grid view after scaling if needed [self lockFocus]; [self compositeCache:rects]; [self drawItems]; /* draw the PS items*/ [self unlockFocus]; } } Any hint? Thanks in advance Sylvain GUERIN and Dom SNYERS --------------------------
From: Car Subject: Drive any new car for $100 p/month. Message-ID: <mmS$Y#pm9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:58:09 -0500 Drive any new car for $100 p/month. Any Make Any Model Any Price No Down Payment! No Bank Fees! No Security Deposits! Home Based Biz. Opportunity-NOT MLM! For more information, call 716-389-9669 and a live operator will take down your Name, Address, Phone, Fax (optional), and email (optional) so that we can send you an information package. It is important that you give this information, since we will not send any info without it.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <mmS$Y#pm9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <mmS$Y#pm9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:10:19 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.mmS$Y#pm9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: Car Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <1Mvkjyom9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <1Mvkjyom9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 18 Jun 1998 10:23:31 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.1Mvkjyom9GA.120@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: Car Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT util to extract DOS self-extracting archives? Date: 18 Jun 1998 14:32:56 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6mb8eo$plp$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <6malc1$pfr$1@supernews.com> jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > The files in question have the .exe extension, and when I passed them > through unzip, I got this: [ ... ] > With a bit of detective work, I've determined that _setup.1 actually > contains the data, but I haven't been able to figure out what combination > of files yields a valid .gz or .tar.gz archive. > >Any ideas? The short answer is you can't. That sort of .exe is typically a PKZip/WinZip archive with their self-extractor wrapped around the archive. The problem is, such a setup program does more than simply move files around-- they typically create registry entries and so forth which cannot be represented directly in the filesystem. tar-gz'ing the original .exe or it's unpacked contents is as close as you're going to come. > (Yes, I've already cursed the person who sent me these useless files. > Proprietary archive formats... What a cretin.) What is prompting you to attempt this? Why not just run the setup program on a Windows machine? -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+-------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: roglin35@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Nextstep/Openstep resources Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:46:05 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6mbjot$2m7$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> I am a recruiter in the Washington DC area and I am seeking a NextStep/Openstep developer to work in this area. Would you know of any good resources where I might be able to contact NextStep consultants who are interested in contract work? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. If you know of someone who would be interested in learning more about this opportunity, please feel free to let me know. My company does offer a referral fee of up to $1000 a year. Thanks again. Regards, Roger roglin35@hotmail.com -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: roglin35@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Nextstep/Openstep resources Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:46:06 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6mbjou$2m8$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> I am a recruiter in the Washington DC area and I am seeking a NextStep/Openstep developer to work in this area. Would you know of any good resources where I might be able to contact NextStep consultants who are interested in contract work? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. If you know of someone who would be interested in learning more about this opportunity, please feel free to let me know. My company does offer a referral fee of up to $1000 a year. Thanks again. Regards, Roger roglin35@hotmail.com -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
From: no@more.spam (Markus =?ISO-8859-1?Q?H=F6rnkvist)?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: SCSI 1 compatible hard drives ? Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 19:42:44 GMT Organization: No organisation Sender: john@haddock.cd.chalmers.se (Markus Hprnkvist) Message-ID: <EurIr8.E84@haddock.cd.chalmers.se> References: <6m4do8$ihv$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: teo@XXXtaconic.net In <6m4do8$ihv$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com> John Badanes wrote: > I just got off the phone with Quantum inquiring about a new hard > drive for my old NeXT. They told me that they currently do not > make a hard drive that is [backward] compatible with SCSCI 1. I > had been thinking about getting their Fireball 2.1 gig HD, but > was discouraged from doing so after I heard this. > > What's the deal? If it's true, what HDs are people buying these > days that are more or less (mostly more) "plug-and-play" SCSCI > 1 compatible? > > I'll take my answer "on the air." > > John > Try CSC; they sell a lot of old hard drive models. www.corpsys.com /Markus name helge address cd.chalmers.se
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: SCSI 1 compatible hard drives ? Date: 16 Jun 98 09:20:16 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Jun16092016@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6m4do8$ihv$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com> In-reply-to: John Badanes's message of 16 Jun 1998 00:20:24 GMT In article <6m4do8$ihv$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com>, John Badanes <teo@XXXtaconic.net> writes: I just got off the phone with Quantum inquiring about a new hard drive for my old NeXT. They told me that they currently do not make a hard drive that is [backward] compatible with SCSCI 1. I had been thinking about getting their Fireball 2.1 gig HD, but was discouraged from doing so after I heard this. That _may_ mean that they just don't know. It should "just work", but even if it's been tested with other SCSI I hardware, if it hasn't been tested on NeXT hardware, you're still not positive. There were SCSI I drives that didn't work, though generally most first-tier drives did. What's the deal? If it's true, what HDs are people buying these days that are more or less (mostly more) "plug-and-play" SCSCI 1 compatible? I know that the Seagate Hawk XL and 2XL drives work. I had a 1Gig XL drive in my station for a couple years, and now it's got a 2Gig 2XL. I've also heard of people putting in IBM Ultrastar 2ES drives, which come in 2Gig and 4Gig packages. 2Gig versions of either type of drive should be available for around $200, and both are easily cool enough for stations. [I got my Hawk 2XL ST32151N for $80, used. It was an OEM HP pull. They're decent drives, and I'd not be _too_ concerned. I expect mine will live as long as the station it's in does :-).] -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Looking for working NeXT in SF / Bay area Date: 19 Jun 1998 11:39:56 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Message-ID: <6mdimc$5ec$2@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <6mdera$3s3$1@news.eunet.ch> jfg@infodesign.ch (Jean-Francois Groff) wrote: > I'm looking for someone with a functional "black" NeXT system anywhere >in the San Francisco / Bay area, in order to demo some old software to a >friend. (The software was the first ever World-Wide Web prototype, >seamlessly including browsing and editing, so you may be interested in >seeing it too...) > Please email me at the address below (I don't read news, I just came >here to post that request). > > Jean-Francois Groff <jfg@infodesign.net> (NeXT-Mail & MIME OK) > Founder, InfoDesign Ltd. Tel: +41-22-771.0440 > Professional Web Services since 1992 Fax: +41-22-771.0441 > Mail: 1 chemin Plein-Vent, CH-1228 Geneva-Arare, Switzerland Everybody, please note that this is _the_ Jean-Francois Groff, who worked with Tim Berners-Lee and Robert Cailliau to create the first World Wide Web browser, running of course on a NeXT Cube. Somebody please lend him a hand (and tell him hi from me). Regards, Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: jfg@infodesign.ch (Jean-Francois Groff) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Looking for working NeXT in SF / Bay area Date: 19 Jun 1998 10:34:18 GMT Organization: EUnet AG Message-ID: <6mdera$3s3$1@news.eunet.ch> I'm looking for someone with a functional "black" NeXT system anywhere in the San Francisco / Bay area, in order to demo some old software to a friend. (The software was the first ever World-Wide Web prototype, seamlessly including browsing and editing, so you may be interested in seeing it too...) Please email me at the address below (I don't read news, I just came here to post that request). Jean-Francois Groff <jfg@infodesign.net> (NeXT-Mail & MIME OK) Founder, InfoDesign Ltd. Tel: +41-22-771.0440 Professional Web Services since 1992 Fax: +41-22-771.0441 Mail: 1 chemin Plein-Vent, CH-1228 Geneva-Arare, Switzerland
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <28217897796825@digifix.com> Date: 21 Jun 1998 03:49:16 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <12114898401620@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT util to extract DOS self-extracting archives? Date: 21 Jun 1998 11:06:59 GMT Organization: The World's Usenet -- http://www.Supernews.com Message-ID: <6mipgj$mhf$1@supernews.com> References: <6malc1$pfr$1@supernews.com> <6mb8eo$plp$1@news.spacelab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: chuck@codefab.com "Charles W. Swiger" may or may not have said: [snip] -> What is prompting you to attempt this? -> Why not just run the setup program on a Windows machine? I don't have a windoze machine, and this isn't important enough to make me get one. Also, if I *did* have a windoze machine, I wouldn't want to run code from an untrusted source just to unpack a few files. Windoze isn't securable. -jcr
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT util to extract DOS self-extracting archives? Date: 21 Jun 1998 11:08:11 GMT Organization: The World's Usenet -- http://www.Supernews.com Message-ID: <6mipir$mhf$2@supernews.com> References: <6malc1$pfr$1@supernews.com> <6mb8eo$plp$1@news.spacelab.net> <6mbork$pt3@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: wilker@math.purdue.edu Clarence Wilkerson may or may not have said: -> A fair number of the self extracting archive are actually -> LHA archives and can be extracted with lha. That's a new one on me. What is LHA? -jcr
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT util to extract DOS self-extracting archives? Message-ID: <1998062118370900.OAA24883@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 21 Jun 1998 18:37:09 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6mipir$mhf$2@supernews.com> LHA is Yoshi's LhArc, a freely distributed for personal, non-commercial use archive program. And as for the question in the subject line, wouldn't the answer be SoftPC? Time limited demo on the NS 3.0 CD-ROM William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <iwtvQjan9GA.119@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <iwtvQjan9GA.119@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 22 Jun 1998 06:44:48 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.iwtvQjan9GA.119@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: Car Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: marcelor@acs.bu.edu (Marcelo Rodrigues) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: How can I set to VGA from boot prompt on White? Date: 21 Jun 1998 20:56:40 GMT Organization: Boston University Message-ID: <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-v0Xx0eK1Ljn9@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Just had a problem with setting the wrong resolution on the monitor of my Intel machine. I want to set the video to VGA so that I can fix the problem. I've done this before but I can't remember what I typed at the boot prompt to get to VGA, anyways that was on V 3.2. and not on V 3.3 that I'm running now. I've tried typing config=Defaults but booting gets stuck when the network is started. Any help much appreciated. Thanks, Marcelo P.S. : Running with a DPT 2144UW. Should I type "Boot Devices"="PS2Keyboard ..." include the DPT driver but then what do I use for the VGA driver?
From: getry@hotmail.com (gerry) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Internet connection? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:10:39 GMT Organization: N.V. Casema Internet Message-ID: <3594114e.4217056@news.casema.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello anyone can help how to connect to the internet using Openstep4.0. I am conected via cablemodem to the internet. I also do have an ethernetcard, 3com etherlink/isa. Step by step please. Thank you.
From: Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: How can I set to VGA from boot prompt on White? Date: 22 Jun 1998 13:02:12 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Message-ID: <6mlkkk$it8$1@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-v0Xx0eK1Ljn9@localhost> marcelor@acs.bu.edu (Marcelo Rodrigues) wrote: > Just had a problem with setting the wrong resolution on the >monitor of my Intel >machine. I want to set the video to VGA so that I can fix the problem. >I've done this >before but I can't remember what I typed at the boot prompt to get to >VGA, >anyways that was on V 3.2. and not on V 3.3 that I'm running now. >I've tried typing config=Defaults but booting gets stuck when the >network is >started. Any help much appreciated. config=Default (not Defaults. Also, note the capitalization) Then use Configure.app to reset the resolution. HTH, Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT util to extract DOS self-extracting archives? Date: 22 Jun 1998 16:00:58 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6mlv3q$kav$2@news.spacelab.net> References: <6malc1$pfr$1@supernews.com> <6mb8eo$plp$1@news.spacelab.net> <6mipgj$mhf$1@supernews.com> jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > "Charles W. Swiger" may or may not have said: >[snip] >-> What is prompting you to attempt this? >-> Why not just run the setup program on a Windows machine? > >I don't have a windoze machine, and this isn't important enough to make me >get one. Up to you, I suppose. >Also, if I *did* have a windoze machine, I wouldn't want to run code from an >untrusted source just to unpack a few files. Windoze isn't securable. From the network, sure. I would be willing to make the argument that a Unix box exporting the normal set of services isn't securable either-- you really do want to have a firewall in place. Running a program locally is a different can of worms. For the purposes of running an untrusted executable, a suitably restrictive guest account, system user policies, and negative ACL's for the filesystem on an NT box works about as well as the equivalent under Unix.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+-------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: "cyberpop" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Eric? Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:10:03 -0500 Organization: University of Missouri - Columbia Message-ID: <6mmks9$1h1k$1@news.missouri.edu> Hi! I lost the URL of Mr. Eric.. I know his name is Eric from his homepage (Eric Next stuff or something). He helps me a lot and I always visit his page. Still looking for him but can't find by search engine. thanks.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: "John Stiening" <jmstieni@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: nextstep 3.2 install disk Message-ID: <01bd9e4c$878e6080$91128780@starlock> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 03:21:54 GMT Hello, I was given a copy of Nextstep 3.2 developer for intel, and would like to try it out, the only problem is that the install disk is missing. I was wondering if anyone out there could point me to a disk image I could use to replace it using dd or rawrite. thanks, -john
From: Car Subject: Drive any new car for $100 p/month. Message-ID: <VxrlXtmn9GA.144@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:54:10 -0500 Drive any new car for $100 p/month. Any Make Any Model Any Price No Down Payment! No Bank Fees! No Security Deposits! Home Based Biz. Opportunity-NOT MLM! For more information, call 716-389-9669 and a live operator will take down your Name, Address, Phone, Fax (optional), and email (optional) so that we can send you an information package. It is important that you give this information, since we will not send any info without it.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <VxrlXtmn9GA.144@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <VxrlXtmn9GA.144@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 23 Jun 1998 06:33:33 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.VxrlXtmn9GA.144@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: Car Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <8c81.b59d.0@ping-pong_1> Control: cancel <8c81.b59d.0@ping-pong_1> Date: 23 Jun 1998 12:00:33 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.8c81.b59d.0@ping-pong_1> Sender: The Ping Pong Team <pingpong@pemail.net> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <8c81.be88.3c0@ping-pong_1> Control: cancel <8c81.be88.3c0@ping-pong_1> Date: 23 Jun 1998 12:37:54 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.8c81.be88.3c0@ping-pong_1> Sender: The Ping Pong Team <pingpong@pemail.net> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: alexnik@tomcat.ru Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell Subject: Welcome to our Web-Site ! www.chat.ru/~andy_new Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:06:26 GMT Organization: CD-Shop Message-ID: <6mo98i$pc2$14@news.metrocom.ru> On our WWW Page you can choose and order many popular graphics programs, add-ons and many plugins.All programs are on CD.All are _FULL_ OEM version. 1. 3DS MAX 2.5 + MANY plugins (it is new CD)Price: 500$ 2. 3DS MAX 2.0 + standart plugins (include Character Studio 1.5)Price: 350$ 3. SoftImage Extreme 3.7 (Include Mental Ray and manuals)Price: 350$ 4. LightWave 5.5 + plugins Price: 300$ 5. PhotoShop 4.0 + many filters (Include After Effects)Price: 150$ 6. Adobe Illustrator 7.0 professional $150 7. Adobe Pagemaker 6.5 $150 8. Adobe Photoshop 4.01 $150 9. Adobe Premiere 4.2 $100 10. Delphi 3.0 Client/Server suite $300 11. Borland C++ Builder Client/Serv suite $100 12. Microsoft Developer Visual Studio 97 (4CD) $500 13. QNX v.4.24 $500 And more. Visited our www page and confirm. www.chat.ru/~andy_new For more information e-mail only on alexnik@tomcat.ru Thank You.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell Subject: cmsg cancel <6mo98i$pc2$14@news.metrocom.ru> Control: cancel <6mo98i$pc2$14@news.metrocom.ru> Date: 23 Jun 1998 14:44:31 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6mo98i$pc2$14@news.metrocom.ru> Sender: alexnik@tomcat.ru Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: PNP COMPUTERS <pnpmail@pnpcomputers.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,biz.marketplace.computers.other,biz.marketplace.computers.pc-clone Subject: Acer 486DX-50Mhz $73 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:41:06 -0700 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <35909172.6A377FCC@pnpcomputers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Acer 486DX-50Mhz $73 Acer $73 * 486DX-50 * 1Meg Video Card * 8MB RAM * 1.44 Floppy Drive * 170MB Hard Drive * Keyboard & Mouse * Desktop Case * Used and good condition ********************************************************** HP Vectra $90 * 486DX2-66 * 1Meg Video Card * 4MB RAM * 1.44 Floppy Drive * 420MB Hard Drive * Keyboard & Mouse * Desktop Case * Used and good condition ********************************************************** Dot Matrix Printers $50 ********************************************************** Compaq Docking Stations for Armada 4100 Notebooks $95 ************************************************************* To order please email or call us with your full name, shipping address, phone numbers, and credit card number + expiration date + credit card billing address. Shipping and Handling is EXTRA. We accept Visa or MasterCard. Computer Sales, Service, and Upgrades To Place An Order, Call or Visit Us!!! PNP COMPUTERS Tel: (562) 861-7828 Fax: (562) 861-1348 Website: http://www.pnpcomputers.com E-Mail: pnpmail@pnpcomputers.com
From: <gbh@clark.net> Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:26:28 -0400 Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980627152157.24581C-100000@shell.clark.net> References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> > I would like to know if somebody did try to run Wine( windows emulator ) > under the BSD layer of Rhapsody ( or OpenStep )... Or, since Linux can run SCO binaries, and FreeBSD can emulate Linux, is it possible to emulate Linux on Rhapsody and run SCO Merge? --Greg
From: Talons Casual <news@newtwist.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Finally..Not a gimmick Date: 27 Jun 98 12:54:51 -0700 Organization: Smith International Message-ID: <8c85.b59b.348@default> content-length: 469 A real product, not a get rich scam. I'm just a person like you trying to make a buck and I found a way with a product I produce and sell. Do you want to help me and make some good money at the same time/ Then take a minute and look at this page listed below. Check it out. http://www.newtwist.com/800 Smith International PO Box 3376 Glendale, AZ 85311 Voice: 602-937-0449 Fax: 602-939-8179 E-Mail: smithint@newtwist.com Home: http://www.newtwist.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <8c85.b59b.348@default> Control: cancel <8c85.b59b.348@default> Date: 27 Jun 1998 20:06:56 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.8c85.b59b.348@default> Sender: Talons Casual <news@newtwist.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Jim Vancheri" <Jim.Vancheri@mci.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software References: <6n6120$k2k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: NS 3.3 Install on Toshiba Tecra 550CDT - Can't find cdrom Message-ID: <FeSl1.693$Ki5.647325@pm01nn> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:51:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:51:01 GMT Organization: MCI2000 Ravi: Do you have the CD drive in the external case or is it inserted into the laptop? I found that to do a Next install on my Tecra that the CD drive has to be in the laptop, not the external drive case. If it was in the external case the system would not find it. Jim ravishankarr@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <6n6120$k2k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >Hello all: > >I have been trying to install NS 3.3 for Intel on a Toshia Tecra 550CDT >(266MHz Pentium) with 96MB Memory and 4GB EIDE HDD, 20x EIDE CDROM. I have >partitioned the HDD into four: > > Partition 1: WinNT (2047 MB) - Formatted NTFS > Partition 2: NS (799 MB) - Unformatted > Partition 3: Solaris (1242 MB) - Unformatted > Partition 4: IBM Boot Manager (4 MB) + Unused space (~4MB) > >I start NS installation the following way: > >1. Load Adaptec 154x Series SCSI Adapter (v3.31) >2. Load IDE Disk Controller (v3.30) >3. Continue without loading additional drivers > >At this point the NS boot monitor comes up (NeXT Mach Operating System). The >following message is seen: 96.12MB physical memory, ISA/EISA bus support >enabled, PCI Ver=2.10 BusCount=22 Features=[BIOS16 CM1], etc. > >Then, for the IDE, I get the following message: > >IDE: using block major 3, character major 15 >IDE: cylinders 993, heads 128, spt 63 (BIOS geometry) >IDE drive 0 using multisector mode. >Registering: hd0 >Registering: hd0a >hd0: No Valid Disk Label >hd0: Device Block Size 512 bytes >hd0: Device Capacity: 3909 MB >Registering: event0 >Registering: kmDevice0 >No SCSI controller or CD-ROM drive found >use sd%d, hd%d, fd%d, en%d or tr%d >root device? > >Why cannot the system find the ATAPI IDE CDROM? The installation hangs at >this point. I have seen similart problems long ago when the NS3.3 came out >and looked into the archives for the answers. Unfortunately, I cannot find >any that relates to my problem. I would appreciate if someone could throw >some light into this problem. I would very much like to install NS 3.3 on my >laptop. > >If this thing goes through successfully, can I install the NS Video Drive for >S3 Virge on the laptop. The graphics chipset in the laptop is a S3 Virge/MX >and I was wondering if the S3 Virge drive found in NeXTAnswers would help me? > >Thanks in advance, and hoping to get a positive answer... > >Ravi > >-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: rraman@osf1.gmu.edu (RAVISHANKAR RAMANATHAN) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NS 3.3 Install on Toshiba Tecra 550CDT - Can't find cdrom Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Date: 1 Jul 1998 04:15:48 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA Message-ID: <6ncd5k$s4e@portal.gmu.edu> References: <6n6120$k2k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6n816o$h3e12@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de> <6n9ecb$bb5@portal.gmu.edu> <6na4od$esq2@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de> <6napsl$9np@portal.gmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to followup on my efforts. Now my Toshiba Tecra 550CDT is running NS3.3 beautifully at 1024x768 16-bit resolution. This is the first time I am seeing NS in color and it is pretty cool (I had a NeXT Turbo mono - what a jump in terms of performance!!) Now to get the real things like DHCP, database access and maybe life would be fun after all!! Thanks very much for all your help. Ravi RAVISHANKAR RAMANATHAN (rraman@osf1.gmu.edu) wrote: : Thanks every one. I finally installed NS3.3 using the Dual IDE. I had problems writing the driverimage using rawrite under NT. Once I booted from a Win95 floppy and tried to copy the imageto a floppy everything goes fine. Now I have to try and setup the S3 to get the full window instead of a 640x480 in the center of the LCD!! Thanks once again. : H.-R. Oberhage (phy070@spo109) wrote: : : RAVISHANKAR RAMANATHAN (rraman@osf1.gmu.edu) wrote: : : : Thanks!! Now I would like to followup on that question and ask: where can I find the 'Dual IDE driver'? I found the Beta EIDE driver on NeXTanswers but the rawrite program when run says it cannot find the driver image and quits. I am using the CDROM in the internal bay. The external bay in the 550CDT holds the floppy. Thanks once again. : : Two ways come to my mind, but the first one assumes a running NS 3.3 : : somewhere to 'make' the floppy: that way you would have to install : : (via Installer.app) the driver and then copy it to the exact location : : in the path (/private/Drivers/i386/EIDE.config ???) on the diskette. : : Then you have to find a boot-diskette that allows you to insert a : : diskette for 'additional drivers' and the use the 'new' diskette. : : Easier and feasible if you don't have NS running, but more to load : : down is to get the raw images of NS 3.3. boot, drivers, optional drivers : : and beta drivers disk (each about 1.4 MB). These are real 'images' of : : disks that can be written by rawrite (other drivers can not be handled : : this way, rawrite just 'operates' on disk(ette) images!). : : You might be able to skip one of the disks (optional or beta drivers), : : but I don't remember which one holds the 'Dual IDE' driver, so you'll : : have to find that out first. If internet-bandwith/costs isn't a problem, : : download all four disk(ette)-images. : : Finally - guess what :-) - boot from them and insert what you need until : : you're running. : : Don't install the S3 display driver from the beginning as you will be asked : : for it, each time you upgrade or so. Install with standard VGA (as is : : default) and install the S3 driver only after the system is basically : : up and running. : : Greetings, : : Ruediger Oberhage : : -- : : H.-R. Oberhage : : Mail: Univ.-GH Essen E-Mail: phy070@sp2.power.Uni-Essen.DE : : Fachbereich 7 (Physik) ruediger@Theo-Phys.Uni-Essen.DE : : S05 V07 E88 : : Universitaetsstrasse 5 Phone: (+49) 201 / 183-2493 : : D-45117 Essen, Germany FAX: (+49) 201 / 183-2120
From: pete@ohm.york.ac.uk (-bat.) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: 1 Jul 1998 18:12:47 GMT Organization: The University of York, UK Sender: pcf1@york.ac.uk Message-ID: <6ndu6v$p95$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> References: <slrn6pkpcv.6ca.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com (Douglas Ridgway) writes: > that isn't should be moved there. There are no drivers for non-X > displays, and wine cannot run without X, but these are flaws. Twin has Well, first up I'd have a go at getting it running under OpenStep with X and then take the X stuff out afterwards. > point, but I don't know how well supported it is. (For more > information on Twin, see http://www.willows.com/ .) Thats just a set of Windows API libraries for UNIX - it doesn't provide the ABI that Wine does (which is what matters to me) > Lack of a decent X display was the reason I gave up on Next a couple of years > ago, BTW. Yeah, I can see that - theres a very good one now (Xnext) but I guess it came along too late for most people. Right, now just to find the time to dig into wine :-) -bat.
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: List Servs Date: 30 Jun 1998 03:42:10 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <6n9mqi$391$1@news.digifix.com> References: <6n8qi5$5a0$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <1998062920293300.QAA03041@ladder03.news.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1998062920293300.QAA03041@ladder03.news.aol.com> On 06/29/98, WillAdams wrote: >There used to be a NeXT list server or two, no? > >I'd be kind of interested in participating in any new ones. I'm already on the >Thoughtport NeXT PPP list--have you checked with them? > If you're looking for actual NeXT or Rhapsody related email discussions, then look at http://www.stepwise.com/Resources for a list of them.. I think John's looking for actual listserv software or a service though.. -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
From: <gbh@clark.net> Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:22:04 -0400 Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980629232015.24175A-100000@shell.clark.net> References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> <3597FBBC.83516BB@nospamtoldyouso.com> <35982C2C.40E752CA@sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <35982C2C.40E752CA@sprintmail.com> > > Wine uses X do display stuff. As far as I know, Rhapsody has no support > > for X programs and uses its own GUI. > > This is just a thought... Could you perhaps compile Wine on Rhapsody and use > the Xnest libraries and server? I would think so, that being the purpose of XNext to run X applications. --Greg
From: holger@object-factory.REMOVETHIS.com (Holger Hoffstaette) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: 30 Jun 1998 16:39:23 GMT Organization: the unstoppable code machine Message-ID: <6nb4br$jsq$1@leonie.object-factory.com> References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> <3597FBBC.83516BB@nospamtoldyouso.com> <6nav51$aq2@web.nmti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peter da Silva wrote: > In article <3597FBBC.83516BB@nospamtoldyouso.com>, > Watts <watts@nospamtoldyouso.com> wrote: > > Wine uses X do display stuff. As far as I know, Rhapsody has no support > > for X programs and uses its own GUI. > > DR1 doesn't have X, but allegedly DR2 and CR1 will. Huh? > Of course according to the Apple guy at Usenix, it's questionable whether OSX > will include ANY usable UNIX environment at all... even as an install option > on the CD. The whole Yellow Box may end up as an optional download. Peter, I'm not sure who you talked to during the WWDC, but: - neither DR1, DR2 nor CR1 will 'have X' (meaning the X Window system) built right in. That's good, X sucks and needs to die. - the 'lack of a useable UNIX environment' means 'the Mach kernel and UNIX/BSD/Posix API layer is there, but the shell utilities are not'. These might 'confuse Mac OS customers' or, more blandly put, scare the shit out of the kids. - YellowBox has nothing to do with Unix. YB comprises the portable cross-platform high-level OO APIs that make up the only last interesting thing about MacOS X. Sorry, but you've been told a load. Holger
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: 30 Jun 1998 18:14:47 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Message-ID: <6nb9un$fjc$1@unlnews.unl.edu> References: <6nav51$aq2@web.nmti.com> In article <6nav51$aq2@web.nmti.com> peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > In article <3597FBBC.83516BB@nospamtoldyouso.com>, > Watts <watts@nospamtoldyouso.com> wrote: > > Wine uses X do display stuff. As far as I know, Rhapsody has no > > support for X programs and uses its own GUI. > DR1 doesn't have X, but allegedly DR2 and CR1 will. Who told you that??@!#@!# (Hint: Rhapsody will never have X11 builtin) However, there is a nice shareware X11 implementation (libs + server) called Xnext for both OpenStep and Rhapsody: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/sle/Xnext.html -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: Penio Penev <penev@firenze.rockefeller.edu> Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc References: <slrn6pkpcv.6ca.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> <6ndu6v$p95$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <slrn6pl7ku.6v9.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980105 (UNIX) (IRIX64/6.2 (IP28)) Message-ID: <4AQm1.1$cd.1003622@rockyd.rockefeller.edu> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 18:46:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:46:24 EDT Organization: The Rockefeller University In comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine Douglas Ridgway <ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> wrote: | More | interesting, Twin has x86 hardware emulation, so it can run Intel | Windows binaries on non-Intel platforms. This point is moot. In a networked environment, one can alway put _one_ Linux/Intel application server and everybody can log there and run whatever "productivity" applications over X. The slowing down dictated by the network will be less than the slowing down by the emulation. I want to run my (essentially free at this point) Linux/486 PeeSee in a monitor-less box on the network and display Quicken on my 21" SGI monitor, not pay $7K for a R10000 processor that will emulate x86 at 486/100 speeds. -- Penio Penev <Penev@pisa.Rockefeller.edu> 1-212-327-7423
From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: 2 Jul 1998 21:21:56 GMT Organization: Network/development platform support, NMTI Message-ID: <6ngtlk$7j@web.nmti.com> References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> <6ne4vb$aid@web.nmti.com> <w05btr92ky5.fsf@clpc20.comlab> In article <w05btr92ky5.fsf@clpc20.comlab>, Jamie Lokier <spamfilter.june1998@tantalophile.demon.co.uk> wrote: > peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > > In article <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de>, > > Holger Hoffstaette <holger@_REMOVE_THIS_.wizards.de> wrote: > > > Peter da Silva wrote: > > > > > - the 'lack of a useable UNIX environment' means 'the Mach kernel and > > > > > UNIX/BSD/Posix API layer is there, but the shell utilities are not'. > > > > In other words there is no usable UNIX environment. > > > If that's your definition, yes. > > My definition of a usable UNIX environment is one in which you can run > > UNIX applications. And since they typically use shell scripts for this > > or that you pretty much need quite a lot of shell utilities to actually > > run very many of them. > If the API is present, it's surely no big deal to run the GNU utilities? I didn't say "you can't create a usable UNIX environment", I said "there is no usable UNIX environment". You can almost create a usable UNIX environment on Windows 95, thanks to CYGWIN32, so that's hardly a distinction at all any more. -- In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <peter@baileynm.com> `-_-' "As the complexity of chips approaches the complexity of software. 'U` The behavior of chips approaches the behavior of software." -- John Ahlstrom <jahlstrom@cisco.com>
From: ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com (Douglas Ridgway) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Followup-To: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine Date: 2 Jul 1998 21:45:32 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. Message-ID: <slrn6pnu6m.cel.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> References: <slrn6pkpcv.6ca.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> <6ndu6v$p95$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <slrn6pl7ku.6v9.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> <4AQm1.1$cd.1003622@rockyd.rockefeller.edu> On Thu, 02 Jul 1998 18:46:24 GMT, Penio Penev <penev@firenze.rockefeller.edu> wrote: >In comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine I wrote: >| More >| interesting, Twin has x86 hardware emulation, so it can run Intel >| Windows binaries on non-Intel platforms. > >This point is moot. > >In a networked environment, one can alway put _one_ Linux/Intel >application server and everybody can log there and run whatever >"productivity" applications over X. The slowing down dictated by the >network will be less than the slowing down by the emulation. > >I want to run my (essentially free at this point) Linux/486 PeeSee in >a monitor-less box on the network and display Quicken on my 21" SGI >monitor, not pay $7K for a R10000 processor that will emulate x86 at >486/100 speeds. I disagree. The point of hardware emulation is compatibility, not speed. Other people agree with me, too: both Apple and Digital have made substantial investments in hardware emulation to maintain compatibility as moves are made to new architectures (68k -> PPC for Apple, both VAX and x86 -> Alpha for Digital). Intel prefers to do their emulation in hardware, but it's pretty much the same idea. For Twin, the point of emulation is not to run x86 Windows programs slowly on RISC architectures. Primarily, the emulation is there to allow you to port a program which uses a commercial binary intel-only library. Your code gets recompiled and run natively, and the library calls are dealt with by the emulator. This is pretty similar to what Apple did for the PPC Mac, as I understand it. doug. ridgway@winehq.com
From: peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Date: 1 Jul 1998 20:08:11 GMT Organization: Network/development platform support, NMTI Message-ID: <6ne4vb$aid@web.nmti.com> References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> <6nb4br$jsq$1@leonie.object-factory.com> <6ndabu$ogb@web.nmti.com> <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> In article <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de>, Holger Hoffstaette <holger@_REMOVE_THIS_.wizards.de> wrote: > Peter da Silva wrote: > > > - the 'lack of a useable UNIX environment' means 'the Mach kernel and > > > UNIX/BSD/Posix API layer is there, but the shell utilities are not'. > > In other words there is no usable UNIX environment. > If that's your definition, yes. My definition of a usable UNIX environment is one in which you can run UNIX applications. And since they typically use shell scripts for this or that you pretty much need quite a lot of shell utilities to actually run very many of them. > > > These might 'confuse Mac OS customers' or, more blandly put, scare the > > > shit out of the kids. > > It might also dig Apple out of the hole they've dug for themselves, and > > incidentally give people who want a decent server operating system with a > > pointy-haired-boss-friendly user interface an option other than Microsoft's > > Windows-on-steroids known as NT. > I know that. I'm an OPENSTEP/Mach user, and work in the OPENSTEP/WebObjects > biz. Don't tell me, tell Apple. You will be heard, and that's it then. OK, I sorta got the impression you were buying into this scenario. Sorry. Uh, yeh, I told Apple. Lots of people told Apple at Usenix. Which is where we got the "maybe we'll make that stuff available on our website" line, and we kept saying "OK, don't install it by default, but at least put it on the CD." I don't think they heard. (they really really need to put Samba on the CD as well) -- In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <peter@baileynm.com> `-_-' "As the complexity of chips approaches the complexity of software. 'U` The behavior of chips approaches the behavior of software." -- John Ahlstrom <jahlstrom@cisco.com>
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.os.linux.advocacy Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:05:21 -0400 From: David Lee Lambert <davidl@lmert.dyn.ml.org> Sender: davidl@ramoth Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? In-Reply-To: <w05btr92ky5.fsf@clpc20.comlab> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980701225952.23579H-100000@ramoth> References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> <6nb4br$jsq$1@leonie.object-factory.com> <6ndabu$ogb@web.nmti.com> <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> <6ne4vb$aid@web.nmti.com> <w05btr92ky5.fsf@clpc20.comlab> Precedence: first-class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 2 Jul 1998, Jamie Lokier wrote: > Please don't get confused by these nested quotes... > > peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > > In article <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de>, > > Holger Hoffstaette <holger@_REMOVE_THIS_.wizards.de> wrote: > > > Peter da Silva wrote: > > > > > - the 'lack of a useable UNIX environment' means 'the Mach kernel and > > > > > UNIX/BSD/Posix API layer is there, but the shell utilities are not'. > > > > > > In other words there is no usable UNIX environment. > > > > > If that's your definition, yes. > > > > My definition of a usable UNIX environment is one in which you can run > > UNIX applications. And since they typically use shell scripts for this > > or that you pretty much need quite a lot of shell utilities to actually > > run very many of them. > > If the API is present, it's surely no big deal to run the GNU utilities? > Heck, that's what a lot of people do even on platforms that come with > their own versions of standard utilities. The only utilities on Linux are the GNU utilities, and a few BSD utils. However, if the platform has no C compiler in the first place, it's tricky to build them. Apple could select a stable version of GCC, perl, bash and the GNU file utilities and provide bundled binaries of them. If they did this, they'd be competing (slightly) with Redhat etc. -- David Lee Lambert MHm 16x20 E-mail: lmert at c3net.net (temporarily) I am a hacker, part of an open society sworn to create and study, but never destroy. We know the truth about operating systems. In the end, there can be only one. May it be GNU/Linux, the OpenSource OS.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <m87X4vjp9GA.155@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <m87X4vjp9GA.155@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 03 Jul 1998 05:21:05 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.m87X4vjp9GA.155@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: PC Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTtv on Rhapsody Date: 3 Jul 1998 09:46:48 -0700 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <6nj1to$fgd@slip.net> NeXTtv is the most important application that keeps me attached NeXT black hardware. I really wish I could build a Rhapsody box on intel which would run it. I'd never even think of going to something else. Of course I'd like to see Sybase or Oracle on Rhapsody as well but there's a fat chance of that. Cheers, Emmett
From: PC Subject: Brand New 200MHZ PC's for $599. Includes Monitor. Limited Supply! Message-ID: <3cRYSwxp9GA.170@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:19:24 -0500 Brand New 200MHZ PC's for $599. Includes Monitor. Limited Supply! Check it out at http://www.pc4lessonline.com/specialoffer
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3cRYSwxp9GA.170@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Control: cancel <3cRYSwxp9GA.170@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Date: 04 Jul 1998 08:16:51 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3cRYSwxp9GA.170@cidintnews.infosel.com.mx> Sender: PC Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <3088899006434@digifix.com> Date: 5 Jul 1998 03:48:51 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <668899611234@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Joost Backus <joostb@plex.nl> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Component histrory Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:56:28 +0200 Organization: Plex -- a public access Internet provider Message-ID: <359F77FC.2A1D857F@plex.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I am preparing a little retrospective on components. Could you provide me maybe with some hostorical background info on component based software development ? Was next the first to use components i.e palettes ? What are the differences between Objective C and Java ? The SUN Java tools have a distinct Interface Builder feel to them ? Have they taken over ideas from the Openstep stuff ? What is Avie Tavanian doing at the moment ? Dit Borland get their first Delphi component ideas from Next ? I value your response greatly. Joost -- Joost Backus Nassaustraat 57 5911 BT Venlo The Netherlands Tel. 00-31-77-3200035 Fax. 00-31-77-3200992 E-Mail: joostb@plex.nl Work: 00-31-40-2527065
From: ejbross@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: C/C++ compiler for old NeXTStation Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:53:24 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6nqve4$3c3$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> I recently took out of storage an old NeXTStation (68040 25MHz)running NeXTStep 2.1 and I am now trying to find a C/C++ compiler for it. I would prefer getting something pre-built since I am running into trouble getting GNU's compiler to compile on a Sun for it. Thanks in advance. -ps sorry if that monster of a line at the top prooves hard to read, I'm using Lynx right now and I'm not quite used to it. Cheers. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: Ricardo Cortes <rcortes@psca.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Modems and the NeXT Color Turbo Date: 6 Jul 1998 11:55:39 -0700 Organization: http://pubnews.zippo.com Message-ID: <6nr6jb$nmq@pdrn.zippo.com> Hi there. I currently own a NeXT Color Turbo slab and I am looking at buying a modem for it. But, I don't just want an external modem that will only run on the NeXT. I would like to be able to use this modem on a PC (that I will probably buy down the road). Does anyone know of good modems and is the US Robotics 56K (model no. 5686 priced at $149.99) a good option? How about compatibility? Thanks, Ricardo ps..please respond via email to: <rcortes@psca.com> ------------------ This public news site made possible by the folks at http://extra.newsguy.com
From: naatona@proaxis.com (MR. FATTUS) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Turbo Color Publishing System FS-Price Slashed!!! Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 16:34:43 +0100 Organization: AQUASPHERA Message-ID: <naatona-0707981634430001@pr05-21.proaxis.net> Complete Next Turbo Color Publishing System For Sale!! Price slashed!!!!!!! $700.00 plus shipping!!!!! We must sell our beloved black ³baby² to raise funds for a new G3 system. This is a very special mint condition NeXT Turbo Color Slab system with all of the works. This machine is configured for high end publishing and print work and is still very functional and cool. We would like to find a new and caring home for this unique system. We prefer to sell this as a complete system. Can ship to anywhere in the US. Asking Price Below.............Check out the features................ HARDWARE: Turbo Color Slab, one of the last off off the production line. 32 MB Ram, ABD mouse (the puck) and latest keyboard, Sound Box. Sony 17² Monitor which is in great condition and still bright and sharp NeXT 400 dpi printer with long cable, very low page count-needs new toner cartridge. Drives: Internal: Segate 250 megs for files External: Large Andataco drive box with 1.5 meg. Micropolis SCSI, room to add many drives, heavy duty fan. All SCSI cables. Ready to add Zip disk........... Zyzel 14.4 Modem with Null modem cable SOFTWARE: NS 3.2 installed on Micropolis drive. Very Stable release. Last release of Virtuoso (Next Freehand 5.0) which is still as good as any design package out. Very stable and is set up with drivers for most image setters and printers. Very reliable Postscript output. With disks and manuals. Works seamlessly with Mac versions of Freehand and Illustrator. Appsoft Image 1.1x , a rare release of this Photoshop-like imaging app which came from the developers themselves. Works well, have manuals too. Great for Web graphics.........still does things no other imaging apps can¹t. Address Blaster: Rare but cool address/contact manager with many killer features Special release from developer himself. Wet Paint...........good paint app, with disks. Paste-Up 1.5..............basic page layout Illustrator for NS..........works fine...........good for opening Mac files Pixel Magian..........for all file conversions....rare registered copy. Lots of Misc. graphics apps and utilities. WordPerfect.........powerful WP, works well with Mac versions. Appsoft Draw: Postscript Draw Program Data Phile: Flat file database Lots of cool apps loaded on system. Trial versions of Tiffanyy II and Compose in Color too: NX FAX, last version, rock solid FTP and faxing, fax from any app, NX fax never crashes and can send 14.4 fast faxes: fast and works great. EXTRA SCAN, scanner support for Epson ES600-800 series scanners (which can be bought cheap!) This software was 400.00 new and is no longer available. This is the coolest scanner software for NS. Rock solid way to scan into your next. (My Es-800 Scanner now hooked up to Macs) MetroTools 2.0, manager and launcher for NS. Nice utility/extension. FONTS: This is where this system rocks...........it has been tweeked to have over 350 fonts available through applications. Most fonts are Adobe converted from Mac versions via Fontographer. Many third party fonts are also resident including the best from The Fatted Calf CD ROM. For design work you will love the font collection. You can add more fonts too.....there seems to be no font limit. You can take any Mac font and use Fontographer to create a Next version.....it works! CD-ROMS: NS 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2..............Fatted Calf CD-ROM with apps, images, and fonts. Other demo CD¹s too. Will include some rare Next magazines........ This system is plug and play from my workstaion to yours........black is cool. this is a well set up system, the best of NeXT.......... $1200.00 or best offer, we had $12,000 invested in hardware/software Contact me via E-mail or call: Serious NeXT lovers. Paul Natona Design natona@proaxis.com 541-752-9661 Corvallis, Oregon
From: naatona@proaxis.com (MR. FATTUS) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rare NeXT Software For Sale!! Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:02:52 +0100 Organization: AQUASPHERA Message-ID: <naatona-0707981702520001@pr05-21.proaxis.net> Rare NeXT Software For Sale: I have the following software for sale: All include original disks, license, and manuals or documentation if available. Contact me for more info. Most disks are FAT for Black or Intel. Last release of Virtuoso (2.0) (Next Freehand 5.0) which is still as good as any design package out. Very stable and is set up with drivers for most image setters and printers. Very reliable Postscript output. With disks and manuals. Works seamlessly with Mac versions of Freehand and Illustrator. Disks and Manuals $175.00 OBO Appsoft Image 1.1x , a rare release of this Photoshop-like imaging app which came from the developers themselves. Works well, have manuals too. Great for Web graphics.........still does things no other imaging apps can¹t. Disks and Manuals-$50.00 NX FAX, version 1.3 and 1.4, , rock solid FTP and faxing, fax from any app, NX fax never crashes and can send 14.4 fast faxes: fast and works great. For Zyzel modems. $30.00 for each disk and license string Wet Paint...........V 1.2 good paint app, with disks and License, $40.00 Stone Data Phile: Flat file database, V. 1.04, may not have license, install discs, $10.00. Rare EXTRA SCAN, scanner support for Epson ES600-800 series scanners (which can be bought cheap!) This software was 400.00 new and is no longer available. This is the coolest scanner software for NS. Rock solid way to scan into your next. $100.00 firm, discs and license, manuals. MetroTools 2.0, manager and launcher for NS. Nice utility/extension. $30.00 OBO CD-ROMS: NS Install Disks 3.0, 3.1 ......for black............$20.00 each NeXT Third Party CD-Rom, 1993, for NS 3.1. $5.00 OBO GS Corp Slutions Suite CD-Roms, Volume 1,No. 1, I have two sets, $10.00 each. GS Corp Slutions Suite CD-Roms, Volume 2, No. 2, I have two sets, $10.00 each. Lighthaouse Design CD-Rom, With Concurrence, Daigram,Taskmaster, and wet Paint demo¹s, $10.00. 1 only. Contact me via E-mail or call: Paul Natona Design natona@proaxis.com 541-752-9661 Corvallis, Oregon
From: braunink@hooked.net (David Braun) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Can I load 3.2 onto Intel box w/ EIDE CD-ROM? Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 08:30:30 GMT Organization: Whole Earth Networks News Message-ID: <35a1db1d.46425676@news.wenet.net> Can I load v.3.2 onto my Intel box with an EIDE CD-ROM, or am I in a Catch-22 situation, where I have to load it with a SCSI CD-ROM, and then update to 3.3 ? (which I gather I CAN load with the EIDE CD-ROM) NeXTAnswers is unclear on this. Also, I hear this isn't so easy. What should I watch out for? (I'm planning to do a dual boot with W95/98 using System Commander). David Braun
Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc From: cdouty@netcom.com (Chris Douty) Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs windows Applications? Message-ID: <cdoutyEvpLLq.M1E@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom References: <3592E9E5.10A5B03A@leland.Stanford.EDU> <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> <6ne4vb$aid@web.nmti.com> <w05btr92ky5.fsf@clpc20.comlab> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:22:38 GMT Sender: cdouty@netcom4.netcom.com In article <w05btr92ky5.fsf@clpc20.comlab>, Jamie Lokier <spamfilter.june1998@tantalophile.demon.co.uk> wrote: >Please don't get confused by these nested quotes... > >peter@nmti.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >> In article <6ne17b$41n@ragnarok.en.uunet.de>, >> Holger Hoffstaette <holger@_REMOVE_THIS_.wizards.de> wrote: >> > Peter da Silva wrote: >> > > > - the 'lack of a useable UNIX environment' means 'the Mach kernel and >> > > > UNIX/BSD/Posix API layer is there, but the shell utilities are not'. >> >> > > In other words there is no usable UNIX environment. >> >> > If that's your definition, yes. >> >> My definition of a usable UNIX environment is one in which you can run >> UNIX applications. And since they typically use shell scripts for this >> or that you pretty much need quite a lot of shell utilities to actually >> run very many of them. > >If the API is present, it's surely no big deal to run the GNU utilities? >Heck, that's what a lot of people do even on platforms that come with >their own versions of standard utilities. Actually, it is a big deal. There are, what, three different BSD4.4 source distributions plus GNU? That means that a particular utility or group of programs could come from at least four different codebases. Every OSX box could run the same shell script differently or not at all. That not how I want to "Think Different"ly! Even now Apple has integration issue with Rhapsody unix utilities. The documentation and source may have come from different distributions, various things don't respond to NetInfo well, etc. The same sort of OS layer trivia that plagued NeXT remains in RDR. The devil is always in the details. Apple *MUST* provide the CLI tools if we are to expect consistency between systems. Leaving everyone to roll their own can breed chaos. -Chris -- Christopher Douty - Rogue Engineer trapped in a land of software cdouty@netcom.com "Frequently the messages have meaning; that is they refer to or are correlated according to some system with physical or conceptual entities. These semantic aspects of communication are irrelevant to the engineering problem." -Shannon
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <07071998185650wthock@pop.jaring.my> Control: cancel <07071998185650wthock@pop.jaring.my> Date: 07 Jul 1998 12:01:18 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.07071998185650wthock@pop.jaring.my> Sender: <wthock@pop.jaring.my> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <07071998230150wthock@pop.jaring.my> Control: cancel <07071998230150wthock@pop.jaring.my> Date: 08 Jul 1998 00:46:41 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.07071998230150wthock@pop.jaring.my> Sender: <wthock@pop.jaring.my> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: wyoinst@trib.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: $$$DOUBLE YOUR GAS MILEAGE AND PAY 1/2 PRICE FOR GASOLINE!$$$ Date: 8 Jul 1998 05:49:41 GMT Organization: Wyoming Instruments Message-ID: <13094272820068864@trib.com> Hi! I posted this using an unregistered copy of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO! You can download your own copy for FREE from: http://www.autoposter.cc or just click this line: http://www.autoposter.cc/files/newspro1.exe --- ============================================================== Pay 1/2 Price For Your Gasoline?.. Sounds Impossible?.. Well, Read On.. =============================================================== Introducing the invention that has astounded the "Experts". The Fuel Atomizer 2000, introduced to the market in 1991 by Wyoming Instruments (Glenrock, Wyoming), has actually PRODUCED GAS MILEAGE INCREASES AS HIGH AS 100% on some vehicles. It has been read about in such magazines as Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. Kit Carson, of the Rush Limbaugh program says, "The Fuel Atomizer 2000 is a very fascinating invention." Dr. Graber, who's car doubled in gas mileage says, "It is just like paying half price at the pump." The Fuel Atomizer 2000 offers your vehicle some if not all the following benefits: 1) INCREASED GAS MILEAGE 2) INCREASED POWER AND PERFORMANCE 3) INCREASED LIFE SPAN OF YOUR EXAUST SYSTEM 4) DECREASED TAILPIPE EMMISSIONS (Independent testing shows hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide levels reduced to near zero on new cars!) 5) DECREASED ENGINE WEAR AND TEAR BEST OF ALL...The Fuel Atomizer 2000 costs less than $150.00 and comes with an incredible 60 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE IF YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY SATISFIED! =================================================================== DISTRIBUTORSHIPS AVAILABLE =================================================================== Now you can make money showing people how to save on their gasoline expenses! Start on a part time or full time basis and watch your income soar! For more information, or to place an order, please call us at (307) 436-2601, or visit us on the web by using your mouse to double click on the web site address listed here: www.trib.com/WYOINST/ For God and Country, R.C. Davis, CEO
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <13094272820068864@trib.com> Control: cancel <13094272820068864@trib.com> Date: 08 Jul 1998 05:51:25 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.13094272820068864@trib.com> Sender: wyoinst@trib.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: <gbh@clark.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Looking for NextICS binaries Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:59:59 -0400 Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980708015513.10149D-100000@shell.clark.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm looking for Intel binaries for the NextICS application. I found the source at caissa.onenet.net but I'm unable to compile it on my rhapsody machine. If anyone has an Intel compiled version of it, could you send a copy to me. Thanks, Greg
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep newbie question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <35A445CA.1A7FF817@macroware.com.au> Message-ID: <zVYo1.36091$BE5.21129849@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 05:53:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 22:53:35 PDT Organization: @Home Network You need to setup the /etc/resolv.conf file: domain ewndsr1.nj.home.com nameserver 24.3.196.33 nameserver 24.3.196.34 well, that's mine, you should edit for your setup. The really important part is the IP numbers rather than hostnames. TjL -- As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to direct all questions/comments/etc to <next-ftp@peak.org>
Message-ID: <35A445CA.1A7FF817@macroware.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 14:23:38 +1000 From: John Mojanovski <mojo@macroware.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OpenStep newbie question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have managed to load OPENSTEP on a pentium and connect to the internet over the network. I have no problems if i use ip numbers eg http://203.60.20.3 etc... but when i try http://anything.xxx.xx i get an error. It has nothing to do with proxy server, if i use proxy.xxxx.xxx.xx it just says it cannot find it. Any help appreciated. john
From: cdbgraf@earthlink.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Digital Video on ND Date: 9 Jul 1998 12:28:24 GMT Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <6o2d18$gvf$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit has anyone connected a dv camera, or even better a mini dv camera, to an nd and played back the video, grabbed screens from video, viewed still shots from the camera, etc? how's it look? is it even possible? thanks for any eyewitness reports, even a-priori speculation. . . chris borden cdbgraf@earthlink.net
From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Digital Video on ND Date: 9 Jul 1998 14:10:13 GMT Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <899993403.221552@globe.uwaterloo.ca> References: <6o2d18$gvf$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Cache-Post-Path: globe.uwaterloo.ca!unknown@bcr11.uwaterloo.ca In article <6o2d18$gvf$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, <cdbgraf@earthlink.net> wrote: > >has anyone connected a dv camera, or even better a mini dv camera, to an nd >and played back the video, grabbed screens from video, viewed still shots >from the camera, etc? > >how's it look? is it even possible? > Should be fine, but remember that the ND only has analogue video inputs, so you'll have to go via either composite or component. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: jbellamy@neosoft.com (Chris Doelle) Newsgroups: alt.comp,alt.comp.aptiva.hardware,alt.comp.cdr,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.aptiva,alt.comp.hardware.infinia,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.multimedia,alt.comp.multimedia.teach,alt.computer.workshop,alt.computer.workshop.live,alt.computers,alt.computers.amiga,comp.forsale,comp.forsale.computer,comp.forsale.computers,comp.forsale.computers.mac,comp.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables,comp.forsale.computers.wanted,comp.forsale.computres,comp.forsale.hardware,comp.hardware,comp.misc,comp.misc.forsale,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.cd-rom,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.comm,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.networking,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc-hardware,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: $$$$$$$ 3.2GB Hard Drive $195.00 $$$$$$$ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:16:48 GMT Organization: Prime Concepts Message-ID: <35a66875.19329165@news.neosoft.com> !!NEW!! 3249KB Hard Drive IDE 256K 11MS 5400 $195.00 Mail me at jbellamy@neosoft.com www.prime-c.com
From: jbellamy@neosoft.com (Chris Doelle) Newsgroups: alt.comp,alt.comp.aptiva.hardware,alt.comp.cdr,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.aptiva,alt.comp.hardware.infinia,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.multimedia,alt.comp.multimedia.teach,alt.computer.workshop,alt.computer.workshop.live,alt.computers,alt.computers.amiga,comp.forsale,comp.forsale.computer,comp.forsale.computers,comp.forsale.computers.mac,comp.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables,comp.forsale.computers.wanted,comp.forsale.computres,comp.forsale.hardware,comp.hardware,comp.misc,comp.misc.forsale,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.cd-rom,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.comm,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.networking,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc-hardware,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: $$$$$$$ 40X CD-ROM $99.99 $$$$$$$ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:21:40 GMT Organization: Prime Concepts Message-ID: <35a669a5.19632907@news.neosoft.com> 40X CD-ROM Supports CD-RW format Supports Digital Audio Extraction Supports Ultra-DMA 33 Supports Vertical Mount function Dynamic Damping System Minimal vibration and noise FREE Software including: Norton Virtual Drive, Norton AntiVirus 4.0 Pyramid, 1998 Grolier Encyclopedia Mail me at jbellamy@neosoft.com www.prime-c.com
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <668899611234@digifix.com> Date: 12 Jul 1998 03:48:54 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <26220900216033@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Eric Hermanson <eric@alum.mit.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Any NeXT users in Tampa/StPete/Orlando area? Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:53:12 -0700 Organization: Digital Universe Corporation Message-ID: <35A87977.45C3B539@alum.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Jul 1998 08:55:53 GMT Wondering if there are any NeXT, OpenStep, or Rhapsody users or developers in the Tampa/StPete/Orlando area? Eric
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Can I load 3.2 onto Intel box w/ EIDE CD-ROM? Date: 13 Jul 1998 14:23:39 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Message-ID: <6od59b$2sk$1@unlnews.unl.edu> References: <35A91E38.222E16E8@forsee.tcp.co.uk> In article <35A91E38.222E16E8@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> writes: > Yes you can do it. This is incorrect. No, 3.2 didn't support IDE CDROMS yet. This feature appearred first with version 3.3, IF you use the updated EIDE driver (again for 3.3 only) available from NeXTanswers. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: "Ragnarok" <bgray@bifrostworks.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need Fax 2.0 Recieving Software Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:58:44 -0500 Organization: The Black Box Internet Access Houston TX 713-638-9983/409-638-1000 Message-ID: <900359926.11424@news.blkbox.com> Cache-Post-Path: news.blkbox.com!unknown@ratbert.bifrostworks.com Please Help, Does anyone know where I can find Fax 2.0 recieving software for 4.2. I have found Jollys2.0_Fax on peak's ftp but it is, unfortunately, only for sending. I have also checked NeXT Answers without success! It seems hard to believe that no one has developed a 2.0 standard fax app. Tell me it isn't so!!!!!!!!! Thank You, Bradley Gray bgray@bifrostworks.com
From: briana@snip.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT users in Philly/NJ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:01:30 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6oee5p$4lt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> I'm wondering if any other NeXTstep/Openstep users in the Philly area are interested in having an informal get-together? I'm pretty new to NS and I'm not a developer, but I'd be interested in meeting other NeXT users/developers. Thanks, Brian. briana@snip.net -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT users in Philly/NJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6oee5p$4lt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <pvzq1.701$RO5.1716260@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Message-ID: <VDzq1.702$RO5.1724470@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:46:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:46:13 PDT Organization: @Home Network > TjL, who's not sure his NNTP posts are going through, so he'll CC Brian on > this post Well since the post appears now on the local NNTP server, I guess it is working again! TjL -- As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
From: cdbgraf@earthlink.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software Subject: scanning transparencies Date: 14 Jul 1998 09:13:33 GMT Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <6of7ft$eio$1@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have an hsd scan-x color w/ powerscan software. are there any hardware and/or software additions that will enable me to scan transparent film, e.g. 35mm slides, etc.? thanks for any help, chris borden cdbgraf@earthlink.net
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT users in Philly/NJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <6oee5p$4lt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Message-ID: <pvzq1.701$RO5.1716260@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 02:37:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:37:09 PDT Organization: @Home Network In <6oee5p$4lt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> briana@snip.net wrote: > I'm wondering if any other NeXTstep/Openstep users in the Philly area are > interested in having an informal get-together? > > I'm pretty new to NS and I'm not a developer, but I'd be interested in meeting > other NeXT users/developers. If you can catch me in the next few weeks (I'm going to be out of town for a few days) I'd be interested. There are a few NeXT folks at Princeton U (Timothy Van Zandt and a few others IIRC) who I've never met even though I've been in Princeton for 3 years.... I'd even offer my apartment as a meeting place if there was interest.... it's not huge and you'd have to like dogs (we've got two very friendly beagles). My wife is actually going to be out of the country for a few weeks, so I'll have plenty of time to get together. TjL, who's not sure his NNTP posts are going through, so he'll CC Brian on this post -- As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
From: Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: scanning transparencies Date: 14 Jul 1998 10:14:17 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Message-ID: <6ofb1p$hb3$1@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <6of7ft$eio$1@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net> cdbgraf@earthlink.net wrote: >i have an hsd scan-x color w/ powerscan software. > >are there any hardware and/or software additions that will enable me to scan >transparent film, e.g. 35mm slides, etc.? The HSD really is a UMAX scanner painted black (I've forgotten the model, but you should be able to find that out). Maybe it's still possible to get the UMAX hardware add-on for scanning transparencies. Be warned, the HSD is a three pass scanner and hence not very precise. What you can do though is scan in slides by simply putting them in the scanner without additional hardware - the results are not too bad IMHO. HTH, Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: severine@mindspring.com (severine@mindspring.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Looking for Opinions on Books Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:28:06 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <severine-ya02408000R1407981328060001@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, all. I'm looking for opinions on the following book titles; I need the most comprehensive guide to the NeXTStep OS, but which will also help me to get up and running with this OS as soon as possible and with a minimum of trouble. Complete Guide to the NEXTSTEP User Environment; Shebanek, Michael B. Springer Verlag; 09/1993; $52.95 Nextstep General Reference : Release 3; Next Computer Inc Addison Wesley; 12/1992; $35.95 Nextstep Operating System Software: Release 3; Next Computer, Inc. Addison Wesley; 11/1992; $23.10 Thanks. -- severine@mindspring.com
From: severine@mindspring.com (severine@mindspring.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: DHCP? Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:11:22 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What's the word on DHCP and NeXTs? I have the opportunity to get cheap ADSL service, which I'd like to route through a hub and then out to various machines (and, in particular, a NeXT). A friend says the current status is no dice on this. Comments? -- severine@mindspring.com
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DHCP? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <WvPq1.745$RO5.2188894@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:49:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:49:58 PDT Organization: @Home Network In <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> severine@mindspring.com wrote: > What's the word on DHCP and NeXTs? I have the opportunity to get cheap ADSL > service, which I'd like to route through a hub and then out to various machines > (and, in particular, a NeXT). A friend says the current status is no dice on > this. Comments? Well, DHCP on NeXT can be done. There's no official package yet.... but there are some floating around out there. I'm confused about one thing though: what do you plan on doing to route from the line in to the hub? If you have one machine with Linux/FreeBSD on it acting as the firewall then you just need DHCP on that machine. TjL -- As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
From: Daniel Corkery <dcorkery@surf.its.bond.edu.au> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Questions about the NeXT Operating System Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:11:09 +1000 Organization: Bond University Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980715140848.4375A-100000@surf.its.bond.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cache-Post-Path: minerva.its.bond.edu.au!unknown@surf.its.bond.edu.au As part of my university course, i have to do some research on alternative operating systems, specifically the NeXT OS. i need information about the following design criteria memory management process and processor management I/O and device management file management networking facilities user interface Woudl you be able to point me to useful URLS on this topic??? Cheers, Daniel Corkery
From: severine@mindspring.com (severine@mindspring.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DHCP? Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:35:55 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <severine-ya02408000R1407981935550001@news.mindspring.com> References: <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> <WvPq1.745$RO5.2188894@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Well, DHCP on NeXT can be done. > > There's no official package yet.... but there are some floating around out > there. > > I'm confused about one thing though: what do you plan on doing to route from > the line in to the hub? If you have one machine with Linux/FreeBSD on it > acting as the firewall then you just need DHCP on that machine. > > TjL I have no such machine. A NeXT, two macs, and, periodically, a friend's dorky Wintel laptop. -- severine@mindspring.com
From: severine@mindspring.com (severine@mindspring.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DHCP? Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 19:35:55 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <severine.ya02408000R1407881935550001@news.mindspring.com> References: <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> <WvPq1.745$RO5.2188894@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Well, DHCP on NeXT can be done. > > There's no official package yet.... but there are some floating around out > there. > > I'm confused about one thing though: what do you plan on doing to route from > the line in to the hub? If you have one machine with Linux/FreeBSD on it > acting as the firewall then you just need DHCP on that machine. > > TjL I have no such machine. A NeXT, two macs, and, periodically, a friend's dorky Wintel laptop. -- severine@mindspring.com
From: distler@golem.ph.utexas.edu (Jacques Distler) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DHCP? Date: 15 Jul 1998 15:14:20 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Message-ID: <6oih0c$c96$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> References: <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> <WvPq1.745$RO5.2188894@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> <severine.ya02408000R1407881935550001@news.mindspring.com> /gnVR"|LWyKVK{`$&t&`k{]Q^x*"ihe+^hTvWs@IEMtYI5RVzGFBPcMu`}>@#^Fm:<)M w83/\[@#\u?TVrF3fqDjK? severine@mindspring.com (severine@mindspring.com) wrote: >> I'm confused about one thing though: what do you plan on doing to route from >> the line in to the hub? If you have one machine with Linux/FreeBSD on it >> acting as the firewall then you just need DHCP on that machine. >> >> TjL > >I have no such machine. A NeXT, two macs, and, periodically, a friend's >dorky Wintel laptop. Well, in lieu of having a BSD4.4/linux box, you could use IPNetRouter ($89 from <http://www.sustworks.com/>) on one of your Macs. It provides IP masquerading, and other routing and NAT services using Open Transport. The current version will even act as a DHCP server. Jacques -- PGP public key: http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/distler.asc
From: jeffery.vickers-1@kmail.ksc.nasa.gov (Jeff Vickers) Newsgroups: alt.comp,alt.comp.aptiva.hardware,alt.comp.cdr,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.aptiva,alt.comp.hardware.infinia,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.multimedia,alt.comp.multimedia.teach,alt.computer.workshop,alt.computer.workshop.live,alt.computers,alt.computers.amiga,comp.forsale,comp.forsale.computer,comp.forsale.computers,comp.forsale.computers.mac,comp.forsale.computers.pc-specific.portables,comp.forsale.computers.wanted,comp.forsale.computres,comp.forsale.hardware,comp.hardware,comp.misc,comp.misc.forsale,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.cd-rom,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.comm,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.networking,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc-hardware,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: $$$$$$$ 3.2GB Hard Drive $195.00 $$$$$$$ TERRIBLE PRICE!!! Date: Wed, 15 Jul 98 20:11:32 GMT Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center Message-ID: <6oiv7a$7ti@niven.ksc.nasa.gov> References: <35a66875.19329165@news.neosoft.com> You can get a 6.4 Gig hard drive (Western Digital or Maxtor) for just under $170 at www.compuplus.com. In article <35a66875.19329165@news.neosoft.com>, jbellamy@neosoft.com wrote: >!!NEW!! >3249KB Hard Drive IDE >256K 11MS 5400 >$195.00 > >Mail me at jbellamy@neosoft.com >www.prime-c.com
From: umfrage@gppg.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Web-consultants, -developers, -programmers wanted Date: Wednesday, 15 Jul 1998 22:59:03 -0600 Organization: Nacamar Data Communications Message-ID: <15079822.5903@gppg.com> We are constantly seeking contacts to consultants, programmers, designers which can help us making our site the number 1 within the adult industry. Are you interested ? Then please visit our site, http://www.internet-sexshop.de/gpeg/umfrage/memhome_e.htm tell us what you think and send suggestions and quotations !
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <15079822.5903@gppg.com> Control: cancel <15079822.5903@gppg.com> Date: 15 Jul 1998 21:34:29 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.15079822.5903@gppg.com> Sender: umfrage@gppg.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "sarawoot" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: The NeXT Wave?? Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:48:42 -0500 Organization: N/A Message-ID: <6ok4j6$q5c$1@news.missouri.edu> Hi I just listen to "VisionInBlack" a minute ago... I saw the lyrics from the album "NeXTWave"... what is it? Anyone heard of that? THanks. Sarawoot
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <4yjr1.13075$h42.2568748@news.axxsys.net> Control: cancel <4yjr1.13075$h42.2568748@news.axxsys.net> Date: 16 Jul 1998 09:16:18 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.4yjr1.13075$h42.2568748@news.axxsys.net> Sender: casey1@adelphia.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: otopico@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DHCP? Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:18:55 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6oln7e$h5t$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com> In article <severine-ya02408000R1407981411220001@news.mindspring.com>, severine@mindspring.com (severine@mindspring.com) wrote: > What's the word on DHCP and NeXTs? I have the opportunity to get cheap ADSL > service, which I'd like to route through a hub and then out to various machines > (and, in particular, a NeXT). A friend says the current status is no dice on > this. Comments? If you want to do something different, you can try out a product called gnat box, The company has a 'light` version which i use to take the dhcl address bellsouth gives to the adsl, and use NAT to my internal network(3 nexts a pc and a sun). All you need is two cheap NICs and a 386 preferably a 486 with 8 meg of ram. The internal network is using fixed ip, with the gnat box having a fixed internal ip...which the rest of the network uses as a gateway, and and external ip which is assigned by bellsouth. There are a few restrictions on the software but it runs off a flopply and has worked great for me. the url is www.gnatbox.com i dont work for them...they just have a great product -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <26220900216033@digifix.com> Date: 19 Jul 1998 03:48:46 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <17553900820823@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <200798003910@hotmail.com> Control: cancel <200798003910@hotmail.com> Date: 20 Jul 1998 15:15:40 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.200798003910@hotmail.com> Sender: <soothsayer5@hotmail.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <200798003903@hotmail.com> Control: cancel <200798003903@hotmail.com> Date: 20 Jul 1998 15:15:01 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.200798003903@hotmail.com> Sender: <soothsayer5@hotmail.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <200798003909@hotmail.com> Control: cancel <200798003909@hotmail.com> Date: 20 Jul 1998 15:15:08 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.200798003909@hotmail.com> Sender: <soothsayer5@hotmail.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: vbragin@ix.netcom.com (Vicki Bragin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Help: System panic ... cannout mount root Date: 21 Jul 1998 01:43:46 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6p0roi$9lt@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> I have an NEC Versa P laptop, the NEXTSTEP partition of which will not now boot up. The message that I get is: rootdev 600, howto 0 vfs_mountroot: error=6 [became 19 when I changed the setting to enable quick boot] panic: (Cpu 0) vfs_mountroot: cannot mount root panic: NeXT Mach 3.3: Mon Oct 24 13:31:49 PDT 1994: root(rcbuilder):mk-171 9 obj~2/RC_i386/RELEASE_I386 System Panic vfs_mountroot: cannot mount root (Type 'r' to reboot or 'm' for monitor) Typing either 'r' or 'm' simply makes me go around in circles. The DOS side (Windows 95) boots up fine but I do most of my work using the NEXTSTEP side. All help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Vicki -- ************************************************************* Victoria M. Bragin E-mail: vbragin@ix.netcom.com Associate Professor of Chemistry, Physical Sciences Division Pasadena City College, 1570 E. Colorado Blvd., Pasadena, CA Phone: (626) 585-7147 Fax: (626) 585-7919 http://www.paccd.cc.ca.us/instadmn/physcidv/chem_dp/vbragin.htm *************************************************************
From: gnyswjgu@nounwantedemail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: ACCEPT CHECKS ONLINE $19.99 SPECIAL OFFER Date: 21 Jul 1998 05:07:20 GMT Organization: Vision Marketing Association Distribution: inet Message-ID: <6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> INCREASE YOUR SALES IMMEDIATELY ACCEPT CHECKS ONLINE! Fax Email Phone ************************* CheckWriter 4 for Windows 95 http://www.vmacom.com/checksonline Million People Don't Have Credit Cards... But They Do Have CHECKING ACCOUNTS! ***DON'T LOOSE THESE SALES*** SPECIAL: THIS SOFTWARE REGULARLY SALES FOR $69.99 BUT THE 300 PURCHASERS GET AN INSTANT($50.00 DISCOUNT) ORDER AND DOWNLOAD TODAY FOR ONLY $19.99 *Increase Your Sales Instantly By Allowing Anyone to BUY - You'll get the sales your competitors loose *Never Risk Sending COD Again, Collect COD Fees Before You Ship - avoid the time to change the mind *Cut the "check in the mail" delay - you know, the one that never comes *Customers Save On Credit Card Finance Charges - consumers are more than every economically aware, show them you are too *Increase The Number of Impulse Purchases - Until now only those with credit cards could buy on impulse but now, you'll get the extra sales *Use For The Convenience Of Monthly Payments - Reduce those Late Payments by issuing Monthly Drafts Easy to use Windows 95 interface To order online today http://www.vmacom.com/checksonline ORDER TODAY ----------------------------------------------------------------- VISION MARKETING ASSOCIATION "Internet Commerce Solutions" Visit http://www.vmacom.com call 757-623-6769 Fax 757-623-2577 ----------------------------------------------------
From: harte@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: BELL&HOWELL SCANNER FOR SALE Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:57:53 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6p2vch$b1f$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> MARKET RESEARCH COMPANY IN RIVER EDGE, NEW JERSEY IS SELLING THEIR BELL AND HOWELL COPISCAN II SCANNER; MODEL 6338 DUPLEX. THE MODEL IS USED BUT IN WORKING AND EXCELLENT CONDITION. UNFORTUNATELY WE CAN'T RUN IT IF SOMEONE WANTED TO SEE IT WORK BECAUSE WE REMOVED IT FROM OUR COMPUTER ALONG WITH ITS BOARDS, ETC...) IT HAS 2 LONG KOFAX BOARDS WITH A SMALL AMOUNT OF MEMORY ON THEM ALONG WITH OTHER FEATURES (POSSIBLY WITH ACCUFEED AUTOFEEDER) WE HAVE SOFTWARE FOR THE MACHINE, BUT WE THINK IT WAS CUSTOMIZED FOR OUR NEEDS. IN ANY EVENT, ALL SOFTWARE, MANUALS HARDWARE WILL BE INCLUDED. WE ARE ASKING $8500 FOR EVERYTHING. YOU ARE WELCOME TO COME TO OUR FACILITY AND EXAMINE THE MACHINE. PLEASE KEEP NOTE THAT THE MACHINE IS IN "AS IS" CONDITION AND THERE WILL BE NO REFUND GIVEN FOR ANY REASON AND NO TECHNICAL SUPPORT EITHER. WE ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF SUPPORT, NOR ARE WE THE INDIVIDUAL WHO OPERATED THE MACHINE IN OUR FACILITY. IF YOU NEED MORE INFO ON THE UNIT PLEASE VISIT: HTTP://WWW.BHSCANNERS.COM/SCAN/6338.HTML IF I CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS OR IF YOU WANT TO NEGOTIATE, PLEASE CALL MIKE BOGHOSSIAN AT 201-342-6400 EXT 117 NOTE: THIS MACHINE SELLS NEW ON THE MARKET BETWEEN $15,000-$20,000. THANKS -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: godwin@unixg.ubc.ca (Godwin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Found Source for cheap NeXTStep Programming Books Date: 21 Jul 1998 21:36:19 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Message-ID: <6p31kj$2l$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Hi Guys, I found a place that have quite a few NeXTSTEP books by SAM publishing.. for half price.. well they look a bit old. i guess they have been sitting on the shelf for quite sometime.. but the source disc are still sealed.. It is available from HALF PRICE COMPUTER BOOKS 4269 LOUGHEED HWY BURNABY, BC (604) 291-1033 Just went a got the NeXTSTEP programming book.. (approved by Paul Lynch) there are also Objective C bookx too Godwin
From: "Jose M. de Aguiar" <jmaguiar@leland.Stanford.EDU> Newsgroups: comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody (Intel) + BSD + Wine= Runs Windows Applications? Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:30:18 -0700 Message-ID: <35B5167A.E3CB2EF2@leland.Stanford.EDU> References: <slrn6pkpcv.6ca.ridgway@taiga.gmcl.com> <6ndu6v$p95$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Yeah, I can see that - theres a very good one now (Xnext) but I guess it > came along too late for most people. > > Right, now just to find the time to dig into wine :-) > > -bat. Please, I presented the question about the possibility of using Wine to run Windows applications in Rhapsody(Intel). Thanks to everybody for the replies. I come to the conclusion that we can not run Wine with Rhapsody(Intel) even though there is Xnext but there are missing parts. Which is completely disappointing. I though that with a PC and Rhapsody I would be able to run X-applications( at least emacs, Xemacs, Xpaint, Xview, Gnuplot, etc... ) directly together with the Apple interface and possibly in the future lots of applications developed for the yellow box. With Wine I would be able to run x86 applications. In other words, Rhapsody would connect the main OS in one piece. Now it seems that Apple is defining their computer only on Powerpc. Motorola seems to go towards Wintel. IBM is more interested in Winter world. My question is: What would be the reasons to buy Rhapsody( Intel ) ?
From: spamcancel@wupper.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> Control: cancel <6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> Date: 21 Jul 1998 08:25:55 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> Sender: gnyswjgu@nounwantedemail.com Excessive Multi-Posted spam article exceeding a BI of 20 cancelled by spamcancel@wupper.com. From was: gnyswjgu@nounwantedemail.com Subject was: ACCEPT CHECKS ONLINE $19.99 SPECIAL OFFER NNTP-Posting-Host was: pm10-102.orf.infi.net
From: asdljfoiuer@lajdflkjsda.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: -Pamela Lee & Bret Michaels Sex Video Available Now ! Date: 22 Jul 1998 12:05:57 GMT Organization: Cine Communications,Internet Access,Los Angeles;310-301-4500 Message-ID: <31MKH94Z.F7267EH1@lajdflkjsda.net> HOLY SHIT BATMAN!!!!!!!! http://www.pamporn.com - ANNOUNCING YET ANOTHER- PAMELA ANDERSON HARDCORE SEX TAPE!!!!!!!! -Pamela Anderson & Bret Michaels Sex Tape- UN-FUCKING BELIEVABLE Could it be true? YES! Before there was Pam and Tommy there was Pam and Bret Michaels, the huge cock, er rock star and lead singer of the mega-platinum rock band "Poison". WHAT? YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT AND WANT TO SEE PICTURES? OK THEN http://www.pamporn.com See them fuck, see them suck. It's all hardcore and nasty. This is Pamela in her prime, young and full of cum. This 45 minute tape is crisp and clear and nothing but sex from start to finish. Don't miss this opportunity to get this incredible tape. Bret has already sued the first company to try and sell the tape and he is certain to try to stop it again. Try he may but we are untouchable. Order now and you are guaranteed to get your copy. HOW MUCH IS IT? Believe it or not for this limited time offer it's only $49.95. IS THIS THE SAME TAPE IEG HAS BUT CAN'T SELL? Yes, but better. We have an original copy and have digitally enhanced the master to give you a damn near professional quality tape. Furthermore, we have spared no expense in the duplication process. Your satisfaction is guaranteed. You've heard the hype on MTV and Howard Stern. You've heard Bret and Pam bitch and moan and threaten to sue. Well here you have it, ready for delivery. So get your credit card ready and order today. http://www.pamporn.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <94F5I3MY.I0687YXO@lajsdlfjasdl.com> Control: cancel <94F5I3MY.I0687YXO@lajsdlfjasdl.com> Date: 22 Jul 1998 12:13:44 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.94F5I3MY.I0687YXO@lajsdlfjasdl.com> Sender: asldfjasldjf@lajsdlfjasdl.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <31MKH94Z.F7267EH1@lajdflkjsda.net> Control: cancel <31MKH94Z.F7267EH1@lajdflkjsda.net> Date: 22 Jul 1998 12:13:44 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.31MKH94Z.F7267EH1@lajdflkjsda.net> Sender: asdljfoiuer@lajdflkjsda.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: mcanji@Bayou.UH.EDU (mirko canji) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Looking for NeXT Sys Admins in HOUSTON, Tx Date: 22 Jul 1998 23:15:10 GMT Organization: University of Houston Message-ID: <6p5rpu$t23$1@Masala.CC.UH.EDU> I am a NeXT System Administrator at UH who is looking forward to meeting some current (of former) NeXT professionals in Houston. Please, contact me... I'd very much appreciate meeting you. Cheers, --Mirko --
From: gnyswjgu@nounwantedemail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> Control: cancel <6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> Date: 24 Jul 1998 15:43:06 -0400 Organization: University of Economics and Business Administration, Vienna, Austria Sender: root@cantine.wu-wien.ac.at Distribution: inet Message-ID: <cancel.8.6p17m8$4gu$704@nw001t.infi.net> Spam Cancelled by news-admin@wu-wien.ac.at
From: Georg Zotti <e9126124@stud1.tuwien.ac.at> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: Help: System panic ... cannout mount root Date: 24 Jul 1998 12:00:02 GMT Organization: Vienna University of Technology, Austria Message-ID: <6p9t02$iv5$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> References: <6p0roi$9lt@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980514 (UNIX) (AIX/4-2) In comp.sys.next.hardware Vicki Bragin <vbragin@ix.netcom.com> wrote: : I have an NEC Versa P laptop, the NEXTSTEP partition of which will not : now boot up. The message that I get is: : [...] : System Panic : vfs_mountroot: cannot mount root : (Type 'r' to reboot or 'm' for monitor) :[...] : Vicki I had the same problem with my multiple OS system, when I had mixed IDE and SCSI drives, and wanted to boot from SCSI, which my system BIOS allows. Solution: When the OS loader comes up, type: rootdev=/dev/**** Replace **** with your HD type and partition number, e.g. hd0a for the first partition of the first IDE drive. (I can't remember exactly, it might be rhd1a instead.) replace to hd1a for 2nd drive etc., resp. hd0b for 2nd partition etc. Use sd0a (rsd0a) for SCSI drives. To avoid typing this every time at bootup, open (as root) Configure.app, press the "Expert..." button, and in the field "Kernel Flags", enter exactly the same "rootdev..." line that worked for booting. (I think one should surround the entry with double quotes. If it does not work, simply boot up manually and change.) Hope it helps... --- Georg Zotti gzotti@unix.cslab.tuwien.ac.at
From: sales@deepspace.com (DST) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Questions about the NeXT Operating System Message-ID: <35b8a446.7899793@news.fred.net> References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980715140848.4375A-100000@surf.its.bond.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:16:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:16:29 EDT On Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:11:09 +1000, Daniel Corkery <dcorkery@surf.its.bond.edu.au> wrote: >As part of my university course, i have to do some research on alternative >operating systems, specifically the NeXT OS. > >i need information about the following > >design criteria >memory management >process and processor management >I/O and device management >file management >networking facilities >user interface > >Woudl you be able to point me to useful URLS on this topic??? > > >Cheers, Daniel Corkery > This is found in comp.sys.next.hardware regularly: Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Message-ID: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 05:01:21 +0000 From: John Mojo <mojo@NOSPAMwriteme.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a problem, I cannot shutdown/restart (without using <ALT> <Num Lock>), the problem started when I reset NetInfo. Then reason i reset was that it changed my root password. Anyway, when I go to shutdown I get the login screen with the Restart/Shutdown buttons grayed out. While I ma here, what gui program do you use to read NewsGroups ? Or should I just stick to Linux for news. What is happening to netscape or openstep ? Thank you, any help appreciated .
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Message-ID: <4gru1.1281$LG5.5637955@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:30:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 13:30:56 PDT Organization: @Home Network In <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> John Mojo wrote: > I have a problem, I cannot shutdown/restart (without using <ALT> <Num > Lock>), the problem started when I reset NetInfo. Then reason i reset > was that it changed my root password. > Anyway, when I go to shutdown I get the login screen with the > Restart/Shutdown buttons grayed out. Check to see if this dwrite is there: (for root) loginwindow PowerOffDisabled No > While I ma here, what gui program do you use to read NewsGroups ? RadicalNews, personally. > What is happening to netscape or openstep ? Two vastly different topics..... Should I assume you meant Netscape on OpenStep? I don't think you'll ever see that. OpenStep is fairly dead as far as I can see. Netscape may not be far behind, but now that the source code is out there, there might be some significant improvements on it in the future for Unixes. But given the way Apple has been dealing with MS lately, I'd expect IE would be bundled with MacOS TjL -- As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
Message-ID: <35BD03EE.433E9CEE@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:49:18 +0000 From: john mojo <mojo@NOSPAMwriteme.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium References: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> <4gru1.1281$LG5.5637955@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thankyou very much (once again). So no point in waiting for a version of netscape that will run on openstep, i think i will be using afterstep more often ... It's a pity i was really getting to like this openstep. john TjL wrote: > In <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> John Mojo wrote: > > I have a problem, I cannot shutdown/restart (without using <ALT> <Num > > Lock>), the problem started when I reset NetInfo. Then reason i reset > > was that it changed my root password. > > Anyway, when I go to shutdown I get the login screen with the > > Restart/Shutdown buttons grayed out. > > Check to see if this dwrite is there: (for root) > > loginwindow PowerOffDisabled No > > > While I ma here, what gui program do you use to read NewsGroups ? > > RadicalNews, personally. > > > What is happening to netscape or openstep ? > > Two vastly different topics..... Should I assume you meant Netscape on > OpenStep? I don't think you'll ever see that. > > OpenStep is fairly dead as far as I can see. > > Netscape may not be far behind, but now that the source code is out there, > there might be some significant improvements on it in the future for Unixes. > But given the way Apple has been dealing with MS lately, I'd expect IE would > be bundled with MacOS > > TjL > > -- > As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate > in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc > go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months > and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
From: heller@altoetting-online.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 05:38:01 GMT Organization: Barb & Helmut Heller Sender: heller@heller.altoetting-online.de (Helmut Heller) Message-ID: <EwqnnD.AD@heller.altoetting-online.de> References: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> writes: > While I ma here, what gui program do you use to read NewsGroups ? Or > should I just stick to Linux for news. I use NewsGrazer.app and I love it! Helmut -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@altoetting-online.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35bbe543.0@d2o7.telia.com> Control: cancel <35bbe543.0@d2o7.telia.com> Date: 28 Jul 1998 04:02:40 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35bbe543.0@d2o7.telia.com> Sender: by_the_lake@jboat.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: me@venetia.pgh.pa.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Font conversion to Windows NT?? Date: 29 Jul 1998 03:05:47 GMT Organization: Pittsburgh OnLine, Inc. Message-ID: <6pm3ib$ni8$1@dropit.pgh.net> I have a number of fonts I have accumulated over the years that I would like to make work on my Windows NT box. This does not seem to be a straightforward process. NT doesn't seem to know what to do with an 'afm' file. Is there some sort of font conversion utility I can use? ----- Bob Peirce Venetia, PA 724-941-6883 me@venetia.pgh.pa.us [HOME (NeXT)] rbp@investor.pgh.pa.us [OFFICE]
Message-ID: <35BE5ABF.34AE801A@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:11:59 +0000 From: john mojo <mojo@NOSPAMwriteme.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium References: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> <EwqnnD.AD@heller.altoetting-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll try it, I hope it is not one of these time limited software. John heller@altoetting-online.de wrote: > In article <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> writes: > > While I ma here, what gui program do you use to read NewsGroups ? Or > > should I just stick to Linux for news. > > I use NewsGrazer.app and I love it! > > Helmut > > -- > Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ > Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" > heller@altoetting-online.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 > FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ > Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
From: nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> <EwqnnD.AD@heller.altoetting-online.de> <35BE5ABF.34AE801A@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Message-ID: <mvyv1.1411$LG5.7593044@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:34:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 22:34:10 PDT Organization: @Home Network In <35BE5ABF.34AE801A@NOSPAMwriteme.com> john mojo wrote: > I'll try it, I hope it is not one of these time limited software. It isn't. TjL -- As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <gYov1.9358$fh3.698347@iagnews.iagnet.net> Control: cancel <gYov1.9358$fh3.698347@iagnews.iagnet.net> Date: 28 Jul 1998 18:43:19 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.gYov1.9358$fh3.698347@iagnews.iagnet.net> Sender: greatbiz@acomco.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Message-ID: <35BFB000.B23416E2@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:28:00 +0000 From: john mojo <mojo@NOSPAMwriteme.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium References: <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> <EwqnnD.AD@heller.altoetting-online.de> <35BE5ABF.34AE801A@NOSPAMwriteme.com> <mvyv1.1411$LG5.7593044@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HHmmm, why does it have reload the newsgroups every time i start it up ? Can i subsribe to certain newsgroups ? (maybe I have not looked deep enough ...) TjL wrote: > In <35BE5ABF.34AE801A@NOSPAMwriteme.com> john mojo wrote: > > > I'll try it, I hope it is not one of these time limited software. > > It isn't. > > TjL > > -- > As of 31 July 1998 I will no longer be able to actively participate > in PEAK's FTP site. Please make sure to all questions/comments/etc > go to <next-ftp@peak.org>. I will be offline for up to 3 months > and do not know how much time I will have then (job & real life).
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6pnn49$lmm$249@garion.telecom.at> Control: cancel <6pnn49$lmm$249@garion.telecom.at> Date: 29 Jul 1998 17:50:43 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6pnn49$lmm$249@garion.telecom.at> Sender: pfrbhbaw@funny.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: wiley_coyote@super.genius.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium Date: 30 Jul 1998 02:58:12 GMT Organization: RCN Internet Distribution: world Message-ID: <6pong4$27t$2@winter.news.erols.com> References: <4gru1.1281$LG5.5637955@news.rdc1.nj.home.com> <35B966A1.EF79E0CC@NOSPAMwriteme.com> In Re: cannot shutdown/restart OPENSTEP on Pentium comp.sys.next.misc nospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospamnospam@luomat.peak.org (TjL) writes, > > ( snip ) > > OpenStep is fairly dead as far as I can see. > I would not pronounce it dead just yet. There are still many people who are interested in OpenStep, Apple is still supporting it and there are still commercial applications available for it. Until Rhapsody or Mac OS X are made available ( which are OPENSTEP based, as you know) I don't think it can be written off so easily. Later, Wiley -- gcasamen@NOSPAM.erols.com (You know what to do) NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Anything is better than Microsoft!! Live free or die!!!!!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6pq3th$kjk$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Control: cancel <6pq3th$kjk$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Date: 30 Jul 1998 16:12:01 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6pq3th$kjk$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Sender: <vista@telepath.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Cliff Tuel" <ctuel@apple.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Font conversion to Windows NT?? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:03:02 -0700 Organization: Apple Computer Message-ID: <6pr1kp$9o6$1@news.apple.com> References: <6pm3ib$ni8$1@dropit.pgh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit me@venetia.pgh.pa.us wrote: >I have a number of fonts I have accumulated over the years that I >would like to make work on my Windows NT box. This does not seem to >be a straightforward process. NT doesn't seem to know what to do >with an 'afm' file. Is there some sort of font conversion utility I >can use? Put them in $NEXT_ROOT/LocalLibrary/Fonts, then type: buildafmdir $NEXT_ROOT/LocalLibrary/Fonts If you're starting with a TrueType font, do this step first: ttf2font -o $NEXT_ROOT/LocalLibrary/Fonts MYFONT.TTF You might have to re-login to see these (don't remember). And note ttf2font has some other options; type "ttf2font" alone for usage info. -- Cliff Tuel -- ctuel@apple.com Enterprise Technical Support / Apple Computer, Inc.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6pr3dc$3j8@examiner.concentric.net> Control: cancel <6pr3dc$3j8@examiner.concentric.net> Date: 31 Jul 1998 00:36:38 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6pr3dc$3j8@examiner.concentric.net> Sender: micmik@concentric.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130942751387779072@w-w-webpages1.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <130942751387779072@w-w-webpages1.com> Message-ID: <cancel.130942751387779072@w-w-webpages1.com> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 03:39:04 +0000 Sender: loseweight@w-w-webpages1.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - multiposted binary files BI=375/1 SPAM ID=4uKogAhGo7gCqTcqbNK8vA==
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35c046e5.0@news.uov.net> Control: cancel <35c046e5.0@news.uov.net> Date: 01 Aug 1998 13:03:04 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35c046e5.0@news.uov.net> Sender: apclqljg@anyonehome.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
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From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <4193901425621@digifix.com> Date: 2 Aug 1998 03:48:45 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <6522902030423@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: waterwork1@aol.com Date: 1 Aug 1998 22:22:44 -0400 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Pool cleaning Aquabot Sender: gingrich@niobium-asy-13.rutgers.edu Message-ID: <130942977337520128-cancel@geneva.rutgers.edu> Control: cancel <130942977337520128@aol.com>
From: Ricardo Cortes <rcortes@psca.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Getting PPP to work. Date: 3 Aug 1998 13:10:30 -0700 Organization: http://pubnews.zippo.com Message-ID: <6q55fm$ej3@pdrn.zippo.com> Hi again: Well, I got my modem cable and my modem for my NeXT Color Turbo. The modem is a US Robotics v.90 56k modem. I am aware that the NeXT won't run 56k, but I wanna use it anyway. My question is this: Does anyone have this modem on a NeXT machine with PPP running ok? Does anyone have a PPPUP (and pppdown script) that they can send me for this modem? Thanks, Ricardo ps...please reply via email. ------------------ This public news site made possible by the folks at http://extra.newsguy.com
From: psalzman@landau.ucdavis.edu (Pete) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: HELP:I've inherited a next Date: 4 Aug 1998 00:38:40 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6q5l6g$mcf$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> Hi I've inherited a Next system which was left by a grad student after he graduated. Nobody has an account on hte machine (it asks for a name/pswd) and I have no idea how to access the thing. We'd like to put it on UCD net but there doesn't seem to be a way to get root on the thing. Can you throw these machines into single user mode? Is there a battery I can take out so all password info is lost? We'd really like to start using the system. Pete -- -- "My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." --Ronald Reagan, about to do a radio broadcast, unaware that the microphone was already on. -=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=- Do you hate spam? Join the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email (CAUCE) at http://www.cauce.org. Actions speak louder than words. Join Today! I BOYCOTT ANY COMPANY THAT USES MASS ADVERTISING ON THE INTERNET
From: jmeacham@rosetta-stone.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: HELP:I've inherited a next Date: 4 Aug 1998 01:25:32 GMT Organization: Skidmore College Message-ID: <6q5nuc$ev6$1@calvin.skidmore.edu> References: <6q5l6g$mcf$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> In-Reply-To: <6q5l6g$mcf$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> On 08/03/98, Pete wrote: >Hi > > >I've inherited a Next system which was left by a grad student after he >graduated. Nobody has an account on hte machine (it asks for a name/pswd) >and I have no idea how to access the thing. We'd like to put it on UCD >net but there doesn't seem to be a way to get root on the thing. > >Can you throw these machines into single user mode? Is there a battery I >can take out so all password info is lost? We'd really like to start using >the system. > >Pete On 08/03/98 in the group comp.sys.next.misc you wrote: >Hi > > >I've inherited a Next system which was left by a grad student after he >graduated. Nobody has an account on hte machine (it asks for a name/pswd) >and I have no idea how to access the thing. We'd like to put it on UCD >net but there doesn't seem to be a way to get root on the thing. > >Can you throw these machines into single user mode? Is there a battery I >can take out so all password info is lost? We'd really like to start using >the system. > >Pete Pete, If you type 'bsd -s' at the boot prompt (to get there press commmandL-commandR-~) and it will come up in single user mode in root if the hardware password is not set. From there you should be able to edit /etc/passwd with vi or ed (or maybe even emacs...I'm not sure how well the ROM monitor does with VT100 emulation). Good luck, James -- The Rev. James David Meacham--Minister, Webmaster, Philosopher Phone: 410-467-9620 ƒ Fax 410-467-9630 ƒ Pager 410-619-6760 Summer at Skidmore: Phone:518-581-7114 See Gabriel Meacham at http://www.qis.net/~jmeacham/gabriel.html "If people did not sometimes do silly things, nothing intelligent would ever get done." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <yEwx1.4013$eK3.35120@198.235.216.4> Control: cancel <yEwx1.4013$eK3.35120@198.235.216.4> Date: 04 Aug 1998 05:06:12 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.yEwx1.4013$eK3.35120@198.235.216.4> Sender: chrisavg@njvdyrij.edu Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk (Ric) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OPENSTEP on multi-OS system? Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 23:54:19 GMT Message-ID: <35c79d45.19709010@news.demon.co.uk> I have an opportunity of getting a shrink-wrapped OPENSTEP 4.2 for Intel very cheaply, and having been keen on running this wonderful OS at home for a long while would love to grab it :) However, just wondering if it will install/run in a multi-OS situation - Ialso have to run OS/2 and NT and use IBM's Bootmanager. Have primary partitions available (UW SCSI system, 3rd disk). Any comments? MTIA.
From: Kevin Joseph-Rhey Clark <kjc1@engr.uark.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: HELP:I've inherited a next Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 02:08:30 -0500 Organization: College of Engineering, University of Arkansas Message-ID: <35C804ED.1A4756CE@engr.uark.edu> References: <6q5l6g$mcf$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pete wrote: > Hi > > I've inherited a Next system which was left by a grad student after he > graduated. Nobody has an account on hte machine (it asks for a name/pswd) > and I have no idea how to access the thing. We'd like to put it on UCD > net but there doesn't seem to be a way to get root on the thing. > > Can you throw these machines into single user mode? Is there a battery I > can take out so all password info is lost? We'd really like to start using > the system. > > Pete > > -- > -- > "My fellow Americans, I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. > We begin bombing in five minutes." > --Ronald Reagan, about to do a radio broadcast, unaware that the > microphone was already on. > -=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=-+-+-=><=- > Do you hate spam? Join the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email > (CAUCE) at http://www.cauce.org. Actions speak louder than words. Join Today! > > I BOYCOTT ANY COMPANY THAT USES MASS ADVERTISING ON THE INTERNET SURE, 1) turn off the NeXT 2) turn on the NeXT 3) during boot you will see a box that says "TESTING SYSTEM" then immediatlely after a "loading from disk" kessage pops-up at this time press the right command key and the ~ key. you should get a NeXT> Prompt. if a hardware passwd has been set you are pretty much screwed unless you know how(or if it is possible) to short out the hardware passwd 4) startup the machine in single user mode by typing one of the following bod -s (to boot from the optical disk) bsd -s (top boot from a hard disk) ben -s (boot from ethernet) after you type this you get some messages and stuff then you should get a root prompt (#) 5) start up the system services by the following sh /etc/rc & 6) set the root passwd by passwd root 7) power off then power on this starts services you will need and want but wont be able to use in single user mode. Its nice to have man's Kevin Clark
Message-ID: <35C8E942.9DFBD753@NOSPAMwriteme.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 23:22:43 +0000 From: john mojo <mojo@NOSPAMwriteme.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP on multi-OS system? References: <35c79d45.19709010@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have Linux/OPENSTEP/NT/Win95 on my system. I use the Linux LILO. I have setup OS/2 it should boot up (it works with linux etc). Ric wrote: > I have an opportunity of getting a shrink-wrapped OPENSTEP 4.2 for > Intel very cheaply, and having been keen on running this wonderful OS > at home for a long while would love to grab it :) > > However, just wondering if it will install/run in a multi-OS situation > - Ialso have to run OS/2 and NT and use IBM's Bootmanager. Have > primary partitions available (UW SCSI system, 3rd disk). > > Any comments? MTIA.
From: ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk (Ric) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP on multi-OS system? Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 19:53:19 GMT Message-ID: <35c8b1f8.12644832@news.demon.co.uk> References: <35c79d45.19709010@news.demon.co.uk> <35C8E942.9DFBD753@NOSPAMwriteme.com> On Wed, 05 Aug 1998 23:22:43 +0000, john mojo <mojo@NOSPAMwriteme.com> wrote: >I have Linux/OPENSTEP/NT/Win95 on my system. I use the Linux LILO. I have >setup OS/2 it should boot up (it works with linux etc). Thanks. Ah well, if it sits comfortably with LILO, it should do fine with BM :) Ever since working with NS 3.2 (or might have been 3.3) a few years ago for a short while in the course of work, I've been longing to run it at home! OPENSTEP here I come! :))) >Ric wrote: > >> I have an opportunity of getting a shrink-wrapped OPENSTEP 4.2 for >> Intel very cheaply, and having been keen on running this wonderful OS >> at home for a long while would love to grab it :) >> >> However, just wondering if it will install/run in a multi-OS situation >> - Ialso have to run OS/2 and NT and use IBM's Bootmanager. Have >> primary partitions available (UW SCSI system, 3rd disk). >> >> Any comments? MTIA.
From: Ricardo Cortes <rcortes@psca.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: US Robotics v.90 modem and NeXTs Date: 5 Aug 1998 14:22:45 -0700 Organization: http://pubnews.zippo.com Message-ID: <6qaif5$l7l@pdrn.zippo.com> Hi: Does anyone out there have the US Robotics v.90 modem (model no. 5686) working on NeXT hardware? If so, could you post or email me your PPPUP script? I cannot seem to get my pppup script to work properly. Also, there are other specific questions I would like to ask, but not to the list. Thanks, Ricardo Cortes <rcortes@psca.com>
From: John Badanes <teo@XXXtaconic.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Anyone have a copy of Mathematica to sell? Date: 6 Aug 1998 06:14:55 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <6qbhkv$3d1$1@redhotmomma.ssr.com> Looking for an _unregistered_ copy of Mathematica for NeXT Black running 3.3. An early 2.0 or 2.2 would be fine. Anyone know what the deal is on upgrading to later versions through Wolfram Research? I'll take my answer "on the air".. otherwise, remove the XXX from the e-mail address above to contact me directly. Thanks. TEO.
From: no9rma@ro5se5.org Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: now purchasing model released photography 30678 Message-ID: <06089817.3030@ro5se5.org> Date: Thursday, 06 Aug 1998 17:30:30 -0600 Organization: Hello: Are you an advanced amateur or pro photographer interested in selling your work? If you are over the age of 21 and have a good quality 35mm or medium format camera please read further. The following "adult entertainment" websites need fresh original model released photos. Please contact them directly if you have an interest. You may download the appropriate model releases directly from the sites. These sites buy original exposed color negative film with model release. Models must be at least 18 years of age. You must be 21 to access any of these websites. Thank you. http://www.girliegirl.com http://www.sassygirl.com http://www.world-premiere.com ]HX(xQT3U_m[8GHENv(5h&$@FK=h)M1ko:jr1+g%PP&5JzCxIg :h"p7sA%7B;Ol,9<LtlEH'2SaN,#$"*iu(Es
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: cmsg cancel <06089817.3030@ro5se5.org> Control: cancel <06089817.3030@ro5se5.org> Date: 07 Aug 1998 00:46:28 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.06089817.3030@ro5se5.org> Sender: no9rma@ro5se5.org Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6qf23o$73j$638@newsreader.wustl.edu> Control: cancel <6qf23o$73j$638@newsreader.wustl.edu> Date: 07 Aug 1998 14:14:24 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6qf23o$73j$638@newsreader.wustl.edu> Sender: patw@proserv.wustl.edu Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: patw@proserv.wustl.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: !!! Announcing an important information resource The Meta-List Date: 7 Aug 1998 15:44:48 GMT Organization: Washington University in St. Louis Message-ID: <6qf7dg$7hq$1054@newsreader.wustl.edu> Hi! I posted this using an unregistered copy of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO! See a new site on the CAIT Home Page geared towards meeting the needs of the Information Systems Specialist. INFORMATION SYSTEMS META-LIST http://www.cait.wustl.edu Any additions or recomendations to the Information Systems Meta-List are greatly appreciated.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6qf7dg$7hq$1054@newsreader.wustl.edu> Control: cancel <6qf7dg$7hq$1054@newsreader.wustl.edu> Date: 07 Aug 1998 18:30:10 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6qf7dg$7hq$1054@newsreader.wustl.edu> Sender: patw@proserv.wustl.edu Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Jan.Reher.HB@t-online.de (Jan Reher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Nextstep 3.3 to sell Date: 7 Aug 1998 17:47:27 GMT Message-ID: <6qfejf$246$1@news02.btx.dtag.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, does anyone have a Nextstep 3.3 for my Monostation currently runing with NS 3.2. Thanks Jan
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <490196819110.2979333546@rw4tt.com> Control: cancel <490196819110.2979333546@rw4tt.com> Date: 10 Aug 1998 05:36:30 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.490196819110.2979333546@rw4tt.com> Sender: vaivudxy25t55f@rw4tt.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <6522902030423@digifix.com> Date: 9 Aug 1998 03:48:30 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <11760902635220@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Holger Uhr <huhr@uni-paderborn.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:06:12 +0200 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Universit=E4t=2DGH?= Paderborn Message-ID: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, a few years ago, I downloaded all of the Sherlock Holmes stories and novels by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle from some ftp site. The files were in NeXT-RTF format, one file for every story and every chapter of the novels. Yesterday, when I restored the files from floppy disks, where they had been stored for years, I found some files corrupted. I have searched some NeXT-FTP-sites and all Sherlock-Holmes fan pages I could find on the WWW, but I can only find pure ASCII versions and MS-Word versions of the files. Can anyone tell me where I can find the RTF-files? Or does anybody still have them and would be willing to mail them to me? (Please don't mail me the files now, just tell me if you have them.) Greetings, Holger -- = | Holger Uhr | Universit=E4t-GH Paderborn Phone : +49 5251 60-6623 | F=FCrstenallee 11 Fax : +49 5251 60-6619 | 33102 Paderborn E-Mail: mailto:huhr@uni-paderborn.de | Germany http://www.uni-paderborn.de/cs/Holger.Uhr.html | How to become immortal: Read this signature tomorrow | and follow its advice.
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF Date: 12 Aug 1998 08:12:14 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <6qriou$1do$1@news.xmission.com> References: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 1998 08:12:14 GMT Holger Uhr <huhr@uni-paderborn.de> wrote: > Hello, > > a few years ago, I downloaded all of the Sherlock Holmes stories and > novels by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle from some ftp site. [...]. > > Can anyone tell me where I can find the RTF-files? Or does anybody still > have them and would be willing to mail them to me? (Please don't mail me > the files now, just tell me if you have them.) You can get them from: ftp://ftp2.misckit.com/Literature/ There's hundreds of Megs of gzipped literature in there. Have fun! -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: Holger Uhr <huhr@uni-paderborn.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 11:24:27 +0200 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Universit=E4t=2DGH?= Paderborn Message-ID: <35D15F4B.B6195C4@uni-paderborn.de> References: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CC: Juergen Grieb <juergen@eskimo.bb.bawue.de> Hello, thanks to everyone who helped me finding the RTF-Files of Sherlock Holmes. (They can be found at ftp://pueo.mhpcc.edu/pub/holmes.tar.gz and ftp://ftp2.misckit.com/Literature/ByAuthor/Doyle.A.C./ ) The only problem is: There never was a problem with my floppy disks--the files at both ftp-archives are exactly as corrupted as mine. From the books I have read ("A Study in Scarlet" and "The Sign of Four") I found the last two files of "The Sign of Four" damaged: At some point in the files the story doesn't continue, but some earlier text is repeated. (You have to carefully read the files to recognize the points: In file "11" in the paragraph beginning with "I heard a cab drive up" and in file "12" in the paragraph beginning with "Well, Small,' said the major, `we must, I suppose, try and meet you.") Without the ASCII version of the story I found on the net, I never would have learned how the crime was done. :-) I don't know if there are more damages in other files I haven't read yet. I also tried to get the files from ftp.byu.edu, where Joshua W. Burton uploaded them first in 1993, but that doesn't seem to be an ftp server anymore. Greetings, Holger -- = | Holger Uhr | Universit=E4t-GH Paderborn Phone : +49 5251 60-6623 | F=FCrstenallee 11 Fax : +49 5251 60-6619 | 33102 Paderborn E-Mail: mailto:huhr@uni-paderborn.de | Germany http://www.uni-paderborn.de/cs/Holger.Uhr.html | How to become immortal: Read this signature tomorrow | and follow its advice.
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF Date: 12 Aug 1998 19:17:40 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <6qspok$39d$1@news.xmission.com> References: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> <35D15F4B.B6195C4@uni-paderborn.de> NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 1998 19:17:40 GMT Holger Uhr <huhr@uni-paderborn.de> wrote: > I don't know if there are more damages in other files I haven't read > yet. I also tried to get the files from ftp.byu.edu, where Joshua W. > Burton uploaded them first in 1993, but that doesn't seem to be an ftp > server anymore. The BYU archive is long gone. I copied it to my local drive before it went away and then I moved it to ftp2.misckit.com. So ftp2 should be an EXACT copy of what was on BYU. It is the same archive at a new location. It is also possible that any corruption could be traced back to the original files that Joshua converted to RTF way back when. IIRC, he had an "automatic" translator he wrote to do the first phase of the conversion from ASCII to RTF; I don't know how closely he doubled checked each book, but considering he did ALL of them, there's a good chance he only spot checked things. If anyone has a corrected version, feel free to send it to me and I'll make sure it gets onto ftp2... -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6qs1ko$jm7$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Control: cancel <6qs1ko$jm7$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Date: 12 Aug 1998 21:40:23 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6qs1ko$jm7$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Sender: <vista@telepath.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF References: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> <35D15F4B.B6195C4@uni-paderborn.de> <6qspok$39d$1@news.xmission.com> From: sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) Message-ID: <35d29489.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> Date: 13 Aug 98 07:23:53 GMT The described error (missing part replaced with former part of a text) sounds familiar to me. I had this problem some years ago, when downloading startrek-stories from the newsgroups via NewsGrazer. Maybe the Sherlock-stories where in the Usenet before, too. Nevertheless, am I the only person who think that a CD with all of the rtf-litrature at Dons site would be a great idea ...? greets Sven -- Sven Droll __ ______________________________________________________/ / ______ __ sdroll@mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de / /_/ ___/ please remove the NOSPM from my reply-address /_ _/ _/ =====\_/======= LOGOUT FASCISM! ___________________________________________________________________ NeXT-mail or MIME welcome ;-)
From: info@trainingcompany.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FileMaker Pro training Date: 13 Aug 1998 00:45:20 GMT Organization: Macresource Computer Training Message-ID: <6qtcv0$lun$1@nnrp0.seg0> Learn FileMaker Pro in your browser. New on-line course with numerous screen-grabs and QuickTime movies. Just $9.99. http://www.trainingcompany.com/filemaker/
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF Date: 13 Aug 1998 18:31:09 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <6qvbdd$9a0$1@news.xmission.com> References: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> <35D15F4B.B6195C4@uni-paderborn.de> <6qspok$39d$1@news.xmission.com> <35d29489.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 1998 18:31:09 GMT sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) wrote: > The described error (missing part replaced with former part of a text) sounds > familiar to me. I had this problem some years ago, when downloading > startrek-stories from the newsgroups via NewsGrazer. Maybe the > Sherlock-stories where in the Usenet before, too. > > Nevertheless, am I the only person who think that a CD with all of the > rtf-litrature at Dons site would be a great idea ...? I believe Skylee has pressed a CD with all this stuff on it. I've also been considering trying to press one of my own that would mirror all the MiscKit stuff, too. If there's enough demand for such a thing, I would do it. (Anyone who is seriously interested in such a thing should let me know via email--plus I'd be interested in knowing what people would pay for such a disc. If it isn't enough--quantity I could sell or the sale price--it isn't worth pressing the discs because of the costs involved in doing it in the first place. -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: "George B. Ameer" <george1@ana.porsa.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Stories in NeXT-RTF Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:03:56 -0700 Message-ID: <6qvdb1$fvb$1@news0-alterdial.uu.net> References: <35CF1A74.39BF16B3@uni-paderborn.de> <35D15F4B.B6195C4@uni-paderborn.de> <6qspok$39d$1@news.xmission.com> <35d29489.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> <6qvbdd$9a0$1@news.xmission.com> I for one would be interested. $40-50 bucks maybe?? Don Yacktman wrote in message >I've also been considering trying to press one of my own that would mirror >all the MiscKit stuff, too. If there's enough demand for such a thing, I >would do it. (Anyone who is seriously interested in such a thing should let >me know via email--plus I'd be interested in knowing what people would pay >for such a disc. If it isn't enough--quantity I could sell or the sale >price--it isn't worth pressing the discs because of the costs involved in >doing it in the first place. > >-- >Later, > >-Don Yacktman >don@misckit.com ><a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a> >
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6r083c$9df@nnews.vitinc.com> Control: cancel <6r083c$9df@nnews.vitinc.com> Date: 14 Aug 1998 02:35:56 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6r083c$9df@nnews.vitinc.com> Sender: noyafqhv@avkristne.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <53NHMT10.Y9YXH3OH@icsdev.net> Control: cancel <53NHMT10.Y9YXH3OH@icsdev.net> Date: 14 Aug 1998 17:47:03 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.53NHMT10.Y9YXH3OH@icsdev.net> Sender: email@icsdev.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <11760902635220@digifix.com> Date: 16 Aug 1998 03:48:21 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <15411903240023@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <35d6720c00000930@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Control: cancel <35d6720c00000930@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Date: 16 Aug 1998 07:40:22 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35d6720c00000930@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Sender: ixikojae@businfo.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <35d69dcd00001851@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Control: cancel <35d69dcd00001851@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Date: 16 Aug 1998 10:16:00 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35d69dcd00001851@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Sender: xpbsxbyf@businfo.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <35d69dce00001852@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Control: cancel <35d69dce00001852@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Date: 16 Aug 1998 10:16:00 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35d69dce00001852@dns.icsdev.net-MINC> Sender: xpbsxbyf@businfo.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6r6it8$gta$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Control: cancel <6r6it8$gta$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Date: 16 Aug 1998 20:51:14 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6r6it8$gta$3505@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Sender: <vista@telepath.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin From: Stephan Gelhaus <stephan@nifix.com> Subject: Re: strange boot problem with black hardware Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-ID: <35D346E2.6B8FABD5@nifix.com> Sender: news@nifix.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: NiFiX dental develop - http://www.nifix.com References: <35D33B3C.55518B32@nifix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:04:51 GMT Hi, I have a nice NeXTcube but he dosn't boot. Anybody know a solution? Here is the console output: NeXT ROM Monitor 2.5 v66 NeXT Mach 3.3: ... ... odc0 at 0x2112000 od0 at odc0 slave 0 od1 at odc0 slave 1 en0 at 0x2106000 en0: Ethernet address 00:00:0f:00:c3:bc IP protocol enabled for interface en0, type “10MB Ethernet” that's all, here is the system for ever hanging. Bye now, Stephan -- NiFiX_____________ E-Mail: mailto:Stephan.Gelhaus@nifix.com dental development WWW: http://www.nifix.com
From: Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: strange boot problem with black hardware Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 22:17:22 -0400 Organization: None Sender: gunn@grv231100.columbus.rr.com Message-ID: <35D792B2.63D3@ibm.net> References: <35D33B3C.55518B32@nifix.com> <35D346E2.6B8FABD5@nifix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephan Gelhaus wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a nice NeXTcube but he dosn't boot. > Anybody know a solution? > Here is the console output: > > NeXT ROM Monitor 2.5 v66 > NeXT Mach 3.3: ... > ... > odc0 at 0x2112000 > od0 at odc0 slave 0 > od1 at odc0 slave 1 > en0 at 0x2106000 > en0: Ethernet address 00:00:0f:00:c3:bc > IP protocol enabled for interface en0, type “10MB Ethernet” > > that's all, here is the system for ever hanging. Bring up the rom monitor (command-command-tilde) and type "bsd" and see if the results change. If so, your system probably mistakenly was set to boot from ethernet or optical sometime and you should use the "p" command in the rom monitor to change the results. -- --------------------------------------------------- Pat Gunn, moderator:comp.sys.newton.announce comoderator:comp.os.os2.moderated "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -- Dr Who http://junior.apk.net/~qc ------------------------------------------------
From: "Bad Dog" <baddog@junkyard.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <6r4gfe$1000$1@news.missouri.edu> Subject: Re: Where is Deepspacetech? Message-ID: <TaBC1.603$rb1.308062@news.mci2000.com> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:22:49 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:20:35 GMT Organization: MCI2000 They are on their vacation, they are like the european's and shut down during holiday. A trait that we should all follow! They should be back soon ... sarawoot wrote in message <6r4gfe$1000$1@news.missouri.edu>... >where is deepspacetech? It looks like its site is down, doesn't it? >If deepspacetech reads this post, please contact me by email asap. > >
From: pacbowlz@aol.com (PaCBoWLz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Message-ID: <1998082107334000.DAA15341@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 21 Aug 1998 07:33:40 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com This WORKS! But you must follow my instructions and do everything just like I say. I had to read this a couple of times to fully understand how it works. But once you get the hang of it, it's easy. So if you need some extra cash, and would like to earn it by doing nothing, then it is worth it. I like this because it's like I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. But to fully understand read on.... THIS REALLY CAN MAKE YOU EASY MONEY! A little while back, I was browsing some newsgroups and came across an article similar to this that said you could make thousands of dollars within weeks with only an initial investment of $6.00! So I thought, "OK, why not try this if it is a scam I will only lose $6.00.". Anyway, it said that you send $1.00 to each of the 6 names and addresses stated in the article. You then place your own name and address at the bottom of the list at #6, and post the article in some newsgroups(There are thousands) or e-mail it to some people. No catch, that was it. The main difference between this system and others is that you have a mailing list of 6 instead of 5. This means that you average gain will be approximately 15 times higher!!! So after talking to a few people, I thought, what have I got to lose except 6 stamps and $6.00 dollars, right? But like most of us I was a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office(1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! I then invested the measly $6.00, and stamps. Well, GUESS WHAT.... within 7 days, I started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I still figured it would end soon, and didn't give it another thought. But the money coming in. In my first week, I made about $36.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I had made a total of over $1,000.00 dollars!!!!!! In the third week I had over $10,000.00 and its still growing. This is now my fourth week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming in VERY rapidly! It's certainly worth $6.00 and 6 stamps. Let me tell you how this works and most importantly why it works....also make sure you print a copy of this article NOW. So you can get the information off it as you need it. The process is very simple and consists of 3 easy steps: STEP 1:Get 6 separate pieces of paper and write the following on each piece of paper "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST. + your name and address." Now get 6 U.S. $1.00 bills (or equivalent in your local currency) and place ONE inside EACH of the 6 pieces of paper so the bill will not be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one paper in each of the envelopes and seal them. You should now have 6 sealed envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase, your name, and a $1.00 dollar bill. What you are doing is creating a service by this. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! STEP 2: Mail the 6 envelopes to the following addresses: #1 Josh Traywick 7521 Lockhaven Avenue Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730 #2 DJ Kirsten 13548 Stoney Creek Road San Diego, CA 92129 #3 Beau Banducci 7007 Creemore St. Bakersfield, CA 93308 #4 TH Hague 3 1062 Mayfair rd. Union, NJ 07083 #5 Nik Matoka 9507 Marymont Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15237 #6 T. Paris 515 E. Wilshire Ave. Fullerton, CA 92832 STEP 3: Now take the number one name off the list that you see above, move the other names up (#6 becomes #5, #5 becomes #4, etc...) and add YOUR name as #6 on the list. STEP 4: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to some newsgroups (I think there are close to 24,000 newsgroups) and/or e-mail it to some people. Remember, the more you post, the more money you will make! Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the following: ____________________________________ DIRECTIONS-HOW TO POST TO NEWSGROUPS STEP 1: You do not need to re-type this entire letter to do your own posting. Simply put your cursor at the beginning of this letter, click and hold down the mouse button. While continuing to hold down the mouse button, drag your cursor to the bottom of this document and over to just after the last character, and release the mouse button. At this point the entire letter should be highlighted. Then, from the 'edit' pull down menu at the top of your screen select 'copy'. This will copy the entire letter into the computers memory. STEP 2: Open a blank 'notepad' file and place your cursor at the top of the blank page. From the 'edit' pull down menu select 'paste'. This will paste a copy of the letter into notepad so that you can add your name to the list. Remember to eliminate the #1 position, move everyone up a spot(re-number everyone else's positions), and add yourself in as #6. Step 3: Save your new notepad file as a .txt file. If you want to do your postings in different sitting, you'll always have this file to go back to. FOR NETSCAPE USERS: ___________________ Step 4: Within the Netscape program, go to the pull down window entitled 'Window' select 'Netscape News'. Then from the pull down menu 'Options', select 'Show all Newsgroups'. After a few moments a list of all the newsgroups on your screen server will show up. Click on any newsgroup you desire. From within the newsgroup click on the 'TO NEWS' button, which should be in the top left corner of the newsgroups page. This will bring up a message box. Step 5: Fill in the subject. This will be the header that everyone sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group. Step 6: Highlight the entire contents of your .txt file and copy them using the same technique as before. Go back to the newsgroup 'TO NEWS' posting you are creating and paste the letter into the body of your posting. Step 7: Hit the 'Send' Button in the upper left corner. You're done with your first one! Congratulations... INTERNET EXPLORER USERS: ________________________ Step 4: Go to newsgroups and select 'Post an Article'. Step 5: Fill in the subject. This will be the header that everybody sees as they scroll through the list of postings in a particular group. Step 6: Highlight the entire contents of your .txt file and copy them using the same technique as before. Go back to the newsgroup 'TO NEWS' posting you are creating and paste the letter into the body of your posting. Step 7: Hit the 'Send' Button in the upper left corner. you're done with your first one! Congratulations... ____________________________________________________________________ THAT'S IT! All you have to is jump to different newsgroups and post away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for each newsgroup! **THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL MAKE!!** That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. box due to the large amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** Now the WHY part: Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #6 on the letter. Now, each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make 200 postings, each with my name at #5 and only 5 persons respond to each of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each make 200 posts with my name at #4 and only 5 replies each, I will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn around and post 200 with my name at #3 and only receive 5 replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the fun part, each of those 625 persons post 200 letters with my name at #2 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just made me $3,125.00!!! Those 3,125 persons will deliver this message to 200 newsgroups with my name at #1 and if still 5 persons per 200 newsgroups react I will receive $15,625.00! With an original investment of only $6.00! AMAZING! And as I said 5 responses are actually VERY LOW! Average are probable 20 to 30! SO lets put those figures at just 15 responses per person. Here is what you will make: at #6 $15.00 at #5 $225.00 at #4 $3,375.00 at #3 $50,625.00 at #2 $759,375.00 at #1 $11,390,625.00 When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $6.00 to names on the list, putting your name at number 6 again. And start posting again. The thing to remember is, do you realize that thousands of people all over the world are joining the Internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST LIKE YOU are now!! So can you afford $6.00 and see if it really works?? I think so... People Have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one sends you money? So what! What are the chances of that happening when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are joining the internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users, everyday, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet. Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work you just have to be honest. Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW, also. Try to keep a list of everybody that sends you money and always keep an eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. Remember, HONEST IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the basic idea to make money!! GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from this, which is tons of extra CASH.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: news@news.msfc.nasa.gov Message-ID: <cancel.1998082107334000.DAA15341@ladder03.news.aol.com> Control: cancel <1998082107334000.DAA15341@ladder03.news.aol.com> Subject: cmsg cancel <1998082107334000.DAA15341@ladder03.news.aol.com> Organization: http://www.msfc.nasa.gov/ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:33:41 GMT Sender: pacbowlz@aol.com (PaCBoWLz) Make Money Fast post canceled by J. Porter Clark.
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35de9e81.0@194.116.20.4> Control: cancel <35de9e81.0@194.116.20.4> Date: 22 Aug 1998 14:25:16 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35de9e81.0@194.116.20.4> Sender: freexxx@fuse.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35df0cec.0@www.an.cc.mn.us> Control: cancel <35df0cec.0@www.an.cc.mn.us> Date: 22 Aug 1998 19:22:31 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35df0cec.0@www.an.cc.mn.us> Sender: email@address.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <15411903240023@digifix.com> Date: 23 Aug 1998 03:48:24 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <6415903844821@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. 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USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35df8de9.1@news1.mid-ga.com> Control: cancel <35df8de9.1@news1.mid-ga.com> Date: 23 Aug 1998 05:58:42 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35df8de9.1@news1.mid-ga.com> Sender: vzqbpk@phoenixat.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:12:33 -0400 Organization: None Message-ID: <35E20F81.2486@ibm.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Alexander wrote: > I'm trying to work out how the *BSDs work together. In particular, > the place an Apple-BSD would play in this as there's been > some discussion about an Apple controlled open source (contradiction?) > > It seems to me, that it's possible to think of the 3 open/free BSDs > as being basically the one thing. OpenBSD, FreeBSD & NetBSD > each concentrate on different aspects of BSD, but they can > take sections of each other and grow in any way they want. > Is that right? > > If so, then an Apple-BSD would be a 4th system concentrating > on Mach and a new driver kit. Naturally Apple would be in > 'control' - similar to OpenBSD controlling their sources. > The other BSDs could take pieces they wanted, and viceversa. > > If some Apple-BSD users wanted a different direction > they would split and they'd give it a nifty name, and AppleBSD > would continue (with less people). Apple would continue > to take pieces of code from Open/Free/Net/NiftyBSD when they > wanted to (and vice versa). > > Further, any BSDs could merge with any of the other BSDs, if > they thought it worthwhile. BSD is one of the 2 main families of Unix, the other being SysV. There are plenty of Unixes in each family, and several that are sort of a mix (like Linux). Examples of BSD Unixes: Free/Net/OpenBSD, NeXTStep, Ultrix, SunOS Examples of SysV Unixes: Solaris, DEC OSF/1, IRIX, DG/UX -- --------------------------------------------------- Pat Gunn, moderator:comp.sys.newton.announce comoderator:comp.os.os2.moderated "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -- Dr Who http://junior.apk.net/~qc ------------------------------------------------
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:32:40 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 03:31:01 GMT Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. Xerox isn't much help, as the Alto is basically mentioned only in passing. I'm looking for screen shots, etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. P.S., an e-mail followup would be appreciated, as I don't subscribe to most of these groups.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.internet.net-happenings,comp.sys.net-computer.misc,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,de.comm.infosystems.www.authoring,de.comm.infosystems.www.pages,de.comm.infosystems.www.servers,de.comm.internet.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35e13353.436541258@news.ij.net> Control: cancel <35e13353.436541258@news.ij.net> Date: 25 Aug 1998 08:24:14 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35e13353.436541258@news.ij.net> Sender: info@byte-buy.com (Webmaster) Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Albert D. Cahalan) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 25 Aug 1998 05:55:17 -0400 Organization: UMass Lowell CS Message-ID: <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 09:55:22 GMT "Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> writes: > I'm trying to work out how the *BSDs work together. In particular, > the place an Apple-BSD would play in this as there's been > some discussion about an Apple controlled open source (contradiction?) Apple used some BSD code in a recent OS that is not open source. Apple also maintains an open source OS based on Linux. (see www.mklinux.apple.com for that one) > It seems to me, that it's possible to think of the 3 open/free BSDs > as being basically the one thing. OpenBSD, FreeBSD & NetBSD > each concentrate on different aspects of BSD, but they can > take sections of each other and grow in any way they want. > Is that right? Yes... but only because it is currently allowed. > If so, then an Apple-BSD would be a 4th system concentrating > on Mach and a new driver kit. Naturally Apple would be in > 'control' - similar to OpenBSD controlling their sources. > The other BSDs could take pieces they wanted, and viceversa. The BSD code used by Apple will never be available to the public. Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from commercial abuse. > If some Apple-BSD users wanted a different direction > they would split and they'd give it a nifty name, and AppleBSD > would continue (with less people). You can't do that without access to the code. > Apple would continue > to take pieces of code from Open/Free/Net/NiftyBSD when they > wanted to (and vice versa). Sure, because code use is currently allowed by those groups.
From: Jim Nagel <jim.nagel@UKonline.co.uk.spamyourself> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:45:33 +0100 Organization: speaking for myself Message-ID: <ant2511330b0t$G3@jim.ukonline.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII In article <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com>, Jeff Johnson <URL:mailto:pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: ... > P.S., an e-mail followup would be appreciated, as I don't subscribe to most > of these groups. but please post replies here too for the benefit of others who are interested! and PS -- has Jeff done anti-spam tricks to his e-address? -- --jim nagel > Mime welcome, but please ask before attaching >400K Computer Shopper magazine UK, freelance using a StrongArm Oakstation*, an Acorn Risc Machine. British technology. no tax to Gate$. immune from millennium worries: online till 2248 AD. remove ".spamyourself" to reply -- unless you're a spammer!
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 25 Aug 1998 12:33:25 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6ruaul$9kg$2@news.idiom.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: pawprint@com.geocities "Jeff Johnson" may or may not have said: -> Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the -> history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can -> give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. Xerox isn't much help, as -> the Alto is basically mentioned only in passing. I'm looking for screen -> shots, etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Well, it *really* started with Ivan Sutherland and a vector display. That was the beginning of direct manipulation of graphics on a display. If you want the history in depth, go to your local university archives, and start reading the Proceedings of the Association for Computing Machinery. -jcr -- "Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time" - Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, US Navy. Where is the line between mere incompetence and actual treason? -jcr
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 25 Aug 1998 14:51:15 +0200 Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen Message-ID: <6ruc03$h5p@grimer.diku.dk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 12:51:15 GMT "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> writes: >Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the >history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can >give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. Xerox isn't much help, as >the Alto is basically mentioned only in passing. I'm looking for screen >shots, etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. Try searching AltaVista etc. for "Xerox Star", "Alan Kay" and "Douglas Englebart". Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
From: kskeithley@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:20:03 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6rudm3$rog$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <35E20F81.2486@ibm.net> In article <35E20F81.2486@ibm.net>, pgunn01@ibm.net wrote: > > BSD is one of the 2 main families of Unix, the other being SysV. > There are plenty of Unixes in each family, and several that > are sort of a mix (like Linux). > > Examples of BSD Unixes: Free/Net/OpenBSD, NeXTStep, Ultrix, > SunOS > Examples of SysV Unixes: Solaris, DEC OSF/1, IRIX, DG/UX Digital Unix, a.k.a. OSF/1 is based on Mach, therefore in your enumeration it qualifies as a "BSD Unix" (sic). -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: Zeljko Blace <zblace@alu.hr> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the BeOS GUI? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:34:42 +0200 Organization: Croatian Post & Telecommunications Distribution: world Message-ID: <35E2BD71.9495FC6D@alu.hr> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruaul$9kg$2@news.idiom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What abouth histroy of the BeOS GUI ? Wjo designed those cool Icons ? John C. Randolph wrote: > "Jeff Johnson" may or may not have said: > -> Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > -> history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can > -> give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. Xerox isn't much help, > as > -> the Alto is basically mentioned only in passing. I'm looking for screen > -> shots, etc. Any suggestions? Thanks. > > Well, it *really* started with Ivan Sutherland and a vector display. That > was the beginning of direct manipulation of graphics on a display. > > If you want the history in depth, go to your local university archives, and > start reading the Proceedings of the Association for Computing Machinery. > > -jcr > > -- > "Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time" > - Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction > Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, US Navy. > Where is the line between mere incompetence and actual treason? -jcr
From: "sarawoot" <c641625@showme.missouri.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTwave? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:59:12 -0500 Organization: N/A Message-ID: <6rugal$1fvc$1@news.missouri.edu> Have any one heard anything about "NeXTWave CD"? I heard only one song -Vision In black".....
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 25 Aug 1998 17:04:59 +0200 Message-ID: <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Albert D. Cahalan | "Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> writes: | > It seems to me, that it's possible to think of the 3 open/free BSDs | > as being basically the one thing. OpenBSD, FreeBSD & NetBSD | > each concentrate on different aspects of BSD, but they can | > take sections of each other and grow in any way they want. | > Is that right? | | Yes... but only because it is currently allowed. Of course. Just as the tendency for Linux to split into a myriad different | > If so, then an Apple-BSD would be a 4th system concentrating | > on Mach and a new driver kit. Naturally Apple would be in | > 'control' - similar to OpenBSD controlling their sources. | > The other BSDs could take pieces they wanted, and viceversa. | | The BSD code used by Apple will never be available to the public. | Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. How does it feel to have both your feet in the air again, Albert? Your statements above has some things in common with reality, but not much. Apple is working with the various *BSD groups to be able to contribute back their changes, as this lower their maintenance headaches. | Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from | commercial abuse. You know, if one look at you in the right light, you have a kind of funny shine. You look sort of religious, talking about the Holy GPL, and the way it will save the earth and raise the masses, saving them all from abuse by the Evil Commercial World. Just to pull you down to earth again (or at least try to point your feet in the right direction): Most of us FreeBSD contributors don't feel particularly abused by the fact that Apple want to pour money and engineering resources into our OS. Actually, we feel it as a good thing, even if Apple doesn't give back everything they do, just the parts they don't feel as critical. It still gives us more than if they'd started from another sourcebase. Or perhaps all of your mutterings is just envy because Linux (Your Holy Linux) had a license which made this form of cooperation with Apple impossible? (Pulling forth the Macintosh Linux doesn't really further your cause here...) Eivind.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: bad@ora.de (Christoph Badura) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <Ey97r7.81M@ora.de> Organization: Verlag O'Reilly References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:42:43 GMT In <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Albert D. Cahalan) writes: >The BSD code used by Apple will never be available to the public. I presume you mean "the BSD code as modified by Apple". The BSD code they used is freely available on any ftp.netbsd.org mirror under /pub/NetBSD/. -- Christoph Badura Verlag O'Reilly
From: Chuck_Esterbrook@orcacomputer.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Adaptec Ultra2SCSI (AHA-2940U2W) Date: 25 Aug 1998 18:01:59 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA Message-ID: <6ruu6n$6q9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 18:01:59 GMT Hi, Has anyone installed OPENSTEP 4.2 or Rhapsody DR 2 for Intel on a system with the Adaptec Ultra 2 SCSI? Another way of saying this: Will the Intel driver bundle, Adaptec2940SCSI.config, support the AHA-2940U2W? Please e-mail me direct, if you don't mind. Thanks! -- Chuck Esterbrook, Software Engineer http://www.orcacomputer.com/~chuck chuck_esterbrook@orcacomputer.com
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Where is Deepspacetech? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:17:24 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <35E337F4.CDF5F3DF@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <6r4gfe$1000$1@news.missouri.edu> <TaBC1.603$rb1.308062@news.mci2000.com> <6rijt6$4tr@crcnis3.unl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DeepSpace are having problems with their current ISP and are switching to a new one; expect a two day break in service. Josh Hesse wrote: > > Bad Dog (baddog@junkyard.com) wrote: > : They are on their vacation, they are like the european's and shut down > : during holiday. A trait that we should all follow! They should be back > : soon ... > : > : sarawoot wrote in message <6r4gfe$1000$1@news.missouri.edu>... > : >where is deepspacetech? It looks like its site is down, doesn't it? > : >If deepspacetech reads this post, please contact me by email asap. > : > > I can get thier page fine from here. > http://www.deepspacetech.com/ > phone: 301-663-3033, and they were back from vacation as of 8/17. > > -Josh > -- > Do not send mail to this account. Really. > "Talk about silly conspiracy theories..." -Wayne Schlitt in unl.general > This post (C)1998, Josh Hesse. Quoted material is (C) of the person quoted. > |ess|erb|unl|u| (Oo) MYTHOS How's my posting? 1-800-DEV-NULL > email: jh|e@h|ie.|.ed| /||\ NEW AEON .Sigfile freshness date: 6/30/98 > Free Karate practices for UNL students & staff--- Just ask me. > > "Ask Bill [Gates] why function code 6 (in QDOS and still > in MS-DOS more than ten years later) ends in a dollar > sign, no one in the world knows that but me" > -Gary Kildall -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Adaptec Ultra2SCSI (AHA-2940U2W) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:24:24 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <35E33998.819F32B8@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <6ruu6n$6q9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Chuck_Esterbrook@orcacomputer.com NO, but rattle Apple's cage, as they said that they were working on it. I asked about a AHA-2940U2W / AIC-7890 driver some weeks (months?) ago, and given the impresion that they were working on it. I've scanned NeXTAnswers every couple of days, but no sign yet. Chuck_Esterbrook@orcacomputer.com wrote: > > Hi, > > Has anyone installed OPENSTEP 4.2 or Rhapsody DR 2 for Intel on a system with > the Adaptec Ultra 2 SCSI? > > Another way of saying this: Will the Intel driver bundle, > Adaptec2940SCSI.config, support the AHA-2940U2W? > > Please e-mail me direct, if you don't mind. > > Thanks! > > -- > Chuck Esterbrook, Software Engineer > http://www.orcacomputer.com/~chuck > chuck_esterbrook@orcacomputer.com -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruc03$h5p@grimer.diku.dk> From: "Sven Drieling" <indy@welcome.north.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:08:30 +0100 Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <42963758@welcome.north.de> Organization: Power-Brei Magazin Torben AEgidius Mogensen schrieb am 25 Aug 1998 14:51:15 +0200 in comp.sys.amiga.misc ueber Re: Histroy of the GUI?: TAM> Try searching AltaVista etc. for "Xerox Star", "Alan Kay" and "Douglas TAM> Englebart". Engelbart
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruaul$9kg$2@news.idiom.com> From: "Sven Drieling" <indy@welcome.north.de> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:10:29 +0100 Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <42963759@welcome.north.de> Organization: Power-Brei Magazin John C. Randolph schrieb am 25 Aug 1998 12:33:25 GMT in comp.sys.amiga.misc ueber Re: Histroy of the GUI?: Hi, JCR> Well, it *really* started with Ivan Sutherland and a vector display. JCR> That JCR> was the beginning of direct manipulation of graphics on a display. In Howard Rheingold's "Virtual Reality" is a quotation about Sutherland's "Sketchpad" from Ted Nelson, "The Home Computer Revolution", 1977. In Nelsons's book a whole capital is about this Sketchpad. tschuess [|8:)
From: Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 03:11:16 +0200 Organization: mail2news@replay.com Message-ID: <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > Apple is working with the various *BSD groups to be able to > contribute back their changes, as this lower their maintenance > headaches. Yes, but only because it happens to benefit them at this point. They can still start distributing it as binaries only whenever they like, as Albert said. > abuse by the Evil Commercial World. that's "non-copyleft" ;-) > Or perhaps all of your mutterings is just envy because Linux (Your > Holy Linux) had a license which made this form of cooperation with > Apple impossible? Does the GPL really make Apple's co-operation impossible? If Apple decided to use GPL software instead, they would have just as much ability to change that software and would attain just as much of an improvement in the softare they could use. While I don't love Apple or anything, I wouldn't jump to put the words "we won't help *anybody* unless we can subvert their right to freedom of information for our gain" in their mouth. I wouldn't do that to anyone. > Most of us FreeBSD contributors don't feel particularly abused by > the fact that Apple want to pour money and engineering resources > into our OS. I think you misunderstand. GPL contributors would not feel abused by anyone helping them out; only someone trying to destroy their freedoms. They don't *have* to be linked. -- please read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ "cry me a bayou/and i'm leaving..." -tricky
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 02:48:38 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, Albert D. Cahalan <acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> wrote: >The BSD code used by Apple will never be available to the public. >Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. I probably shouldn't say anything, especially considering who I an replying to, but... Why is this a flaw? Arguably, Mac hardware is better than PC hardware (e.g. in processor speed). The BSD license has (apparently) allowed Apple to produce a Unix-like operating system, or at least implement some Unix-like features (which they would not have done if they couldn't make some money in the process). Rather than a flaw, I see this as a virtue of the BSD license. It gives me the option of using (possibly) better hardware, at a similar price, and still using an efficient operating system. Yes, I would have to pay Apple some money. But let's face it: Even if I use FreeBSD or Linux on a PC, I end up paying Microsoft some money. (My employer gets educational discounts from Gateway, and that deal makes it hard for me to buy a PC from other sources. So I get Win98 with the machine and have to pay for it, even though I'm going to wipe the hard drive and install a reasonable operating system.) >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from >commercial abuse. ``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply fair. If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:02:51 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6rvtr5$qrc$2@news12.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 03:01:57 GMT Oh good lord, I can't believe I crossposted the word "histroy" all over the place.... Damn OE spellchecker must only work on the body of the message!
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 03:13:07 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org>, Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> wrote: >> Apple is working with the various *BSD groups to be able to >> contribute back their changes, as this lower their maintenance >> headaches. >Yes, but only because it happens to benefit them at this point. They >can still start distributing it as binaries only whenever they like, >as Albert said. And? Let's put this into context. I believe Digital Unix contains a large amount of BSD code. I am currently shopping around for a $20,000 workstation. A DEC machine may be the best choice, and (if so) I'll probably have to pay DEC $3000 for the privilege of using DEC Unix rather than WinNT (which I am _not_ happy about.) Given my employer's requirements, I probably can't use a free Unix-like OS (e.g. Linux). So I'm stuck with WinNT or Digital Unix. Given that, I _am_ happy that DEC ``abused'' the BSD license and ``stole'' parts without giving anything back to the community or distributing source. If they couldn't do that, there would be no BSD heritage or software in Digital Unix, and that looks like the OS I will be stuck with if I decide to buy a DEC. It's available but I have to pay is vastly better than it isn't available. >> Or perhaps all of your mutterings is just envy because Linux (Your >> Holy Linux) had a license which made this form of cooperation with >> Apple impossible? >Does the GPL really make Apple's co-operation impossible? If Apple >decided to use GPL software instead, they would have just as much >ability to change that software and would attain just as much of an >improvement in the softare they could use. Yes, but the software would be a derivative product, ``infected'' by the GPL, and they couldn't sell it. Well, technically, they could, but they would have to give away the source, which means they could only sell it for what cutting a CDROM and customer support is worth. That isn't enough to cover the costs of getting a Unix-like OS running on a new machine, nor provide a reasonable return on their investment. Please note that Apple is in the business of making money, which they would have a hard time doing if they used GPLed code rather than BSD licensed code. Note that this is a commercial application, and totally different from hobbyists and enthusiasts getting Unix-like operating systems to work on PCs. >...While I don't love Apple or >anything, I wouldn't jump to put the words "we won't help *anybody* >unless we can subvert their right to freedom of information for our >gain" in their mouth. Nor would I. But I happen to own some Apple stock. As such, I _expect_ them to do things that make money. Useful but unprofitable development projects are a fine thing, as are other types of charity work, but Apple isn't in the charity business. If the people at Apple want to do development work for free, fine. (In fact I would think very highly of them for it.) But that's a project to pursue on their weekends, not on company time. So I _would_ expect Apple to say, ``we won't help *anybody* unless we can make money in the process.'' (Also note that this does not necessarily mean direct profits. There are other ways to make money. Consider Sun and JAVA, or the initial distribution of Netscape.) Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 26 Aug 1998 10:14:38 +0200 Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen Message-ID: <6s0g5e$or3@grimer.diku.dk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruc03$h5p@grimer.diku.dk> <42963758@welcome.north.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 08:14:39 GMT "Sven Drieling" <indy@welcome.north.de> writes: >Torben AEgidius Mogensen schrieb am 25 Aug 1998 14:51:15 +0200 in >comp.sys.amiga.misc ueber Re: Histroy of the GUI?: >TAM> Try searching AltaVista etc. for "Xerox Star", "Alan Kay" and "Douglas >TAM> Englebart". > Engelbart It is "Englebart". Look it up. Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 10:48:16 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2btp82kof.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 08:48:17 GMT fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > Given my employer's requirements, I probably can't use a free > Unix-like OS (e.g. Linux). Then get a commercial Unix with vendor support, like Official RedHat Linux, or Caldera OpenLinux, or S.u.S.E Linux, or something in that line. And if you want to get an operating system where the vendor will stand up for his product and take responsibility, I recommend you read the fine print on your Windows NT license agreement. No guarantees. Nil. Nada. Might as well use free software. And (not to annoy readers of most newsgroups this is posted to) I would certainly think that there are offers for product and commercial support like this available for redistributable versions of the BSD oeprating system, as well. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: egkioule@u.washington.edu (E. Gkioulekas) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 05:34:42 GMT Organization: University of Washington Message-ID: <6s06pi$11ic$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> NNTP-Posting-User: egkioule fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, >Albert D. Cahalan <acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> wrote: >>The BSD code used by Apple will never be available to the public. >>Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. >I probably shouldn't say anything, especially considering who I an >replying to, but... Why is this a flaw? Arguably, Mac hardware It is a flaw if you value _freedom_, a concept which is explained in sufficient detailed in the GNU philosophy pages (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy). If you make value judgements using different criteria, you will reach different conclusions. That's all there is to it. >is better than PC hardware (e.g. in processor speed). The BSD >license has (apparently) allowed Apple to produce a Unix-like >operating system, or at least implement some Unix-like features >(which they would not have done if they couldn't make some money >in the process). Rather than a flaw, I see this as a virtue of >the BSD license. It gives me the option of using (possibly) >better hardware, at a similar price, and still using an efficient >operating system. Yes, I would have to pay Apple some money. >But let's face it: Even if I use FreeBSD or Linux on a PC, I >end up paying Microsoft some money. (My employer gets educational >discounts from Gateway, and that deal makes it hard for me to buy a >PC from other sources. So I get Win98 with the machine and have >to pay for it, even though I'm going to wipe the hard drive and >install a reasonable operating system.) Not necessarily. You could get your computer from a distributor like VA Research (there _many_ other hardware vendors selling hardware with GNU/Linux preinstalled. See http://www.linux.org/ under the `hardware' section). Then Microsoft would see no money from you. Myself I got my PC from a local shop that assembled it from components. I asked them not to install Windoze, they didn't, and didn't charge me for it. Also, let me point out to you that the issue that GNU people have with proprietary software is not that you have to pay for it. The emphasis is not on _how_ you obtain software, but on _what_ you can do with your copy once you obtain it. This is a subtle point, but it's of great importance in understanding what GNU is really about. >>Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from >>commercial abuse. >``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to >work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people >investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some >credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply >fair. If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the >details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. I think that one way to look at the issue is that many people expect to be paid, when contributing to a proprietary product. One reason why the GPL is so popular is because it allows developers to share within a community that is also willing to share their work without allowing their work to be used in proprietary products. If a company wants to develop proprietary software, they are more than welcome to negotiate a special arrangement and pay the free software developer an appropriate share of the pie, if his work is important to them. In the book publishing bussiness such arrangements are being done all the time. Of course, many people like the GPL for other reasons, but that's another story. Regards, Elef. > Frank Crary > CU Boulder
Sender: klaus@debian Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> From: Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> Date: 26 Aug 1998 11:10:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> Organization: IVM GmbH fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > > >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from > >commercial abuse. At least it tries to, and that's what counts. > > ``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to > work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people > investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some > credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply > fair. If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the > details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. No, the GNU GPL is the most fair possible license. And the mentioned company is a mean capitalist and intellectual proprietarist, thus doesn't deserve any respect for its continued blasphemy. Klaus Schilling
From: yourconscience@work.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:14:42 -0500 Organization: IDT (Best News In The World) Message-ID: <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu says... > Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. No flaw here. BSD-style license is the "ethical license". It does not impose a will upon another to give up trade secrets or to join a cult. GPL could be restated as: "ok, you can use the source in your code that you intend to be your livelihood, BUT you have to let us rape you". S
From: yourconscience@work.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:19:35 -0500 Organization: IDT (Best News In The World) Message-ID: <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> In article <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org>, decklin@base.org says... > I think you misunderstand. GPL contributors would not feel abused by > anyone helping them out; only someone trying to destroy their > freedoms. They don't *have* to be linked. Intellectual property is a right of the individual. GPL attempts to conivingly take that right away. People have a right to their own thoughts. GPL proponents are in the same category of personalities as date rapists. If the shoe fits, wear it. S
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 13:57:17 +0200 Message-ID: <86g1ekot0i.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Decklin Foster | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | | > Apple is working with the various *BSD groups to be able to | > contribute back their changes, as this lower their maintenance | > headaches. | | Yes, but only because it happens to benefit them at this point. They | can still start distributing it as binaries only whenever they like, | as Albert said. Sure. And I expect them to distribute _some_ of their modifications in binary only form; there are a lot of modifications that are not generally interesting, but which still make it harder for direct competitors. However, I still expect to get more good changes back from them by they working on the same sourcebase as I than if they worked on a completely different sourcebase. | > Or perhaps all of your mutterings is just envy because Linux (Your | > Holy Linux) had a license which made this form of cooperation with | > Apple impossible? | | Does the GPL really make Apple's co-operation impossible? No, it only make it impossible for them to do significant development based on the sourcebase. | If Apple decided to use GPL software instead, they would have just | as much ability to change that software and would attain just as | much of an improvement in the softare they could use. No. This ignore the case that people actually have to make money to live; and in some cases, the only practical way to do this is through distributing commercial software. I've sometimes had to make that choice; I assume the same apply to Apple. Without the ability to re-distribute without giving away all your property-rights, I wouldn't have been able to work much on the sourcebase. | While I don't love Apple or | anything, I wouldn't jump to put the words "we won't help *anybody* | unless we can subvert their right to freedom of information for our | gain" in their mouth. I wouldn't do that to anyone. Those are the words I consider to fit GPL advocates, not Apple. The GPL is there for subverting my freedom to do with my changes as I see fit; you've already given away your code, but now you want to take some of mine. I'm not interested; if you're not willing to let me keep my freedom to do what I want with MY work, I won't work with you. | > Most of us FreeBSD contributors don't feel particularly abused by | > the fact that Apple want to pour money and engineering resources | > into our OS. | | I think you misunderstand. GPL contributors would not feel abused by | anyone helping them out; only someone trying to destroy their | freedoms. They don't *have* to be linked. Apple can't destroy my freedom to use FreeBSD. I can take FreeBSD and do almost anything I want with it (except claiming I wrote all of it), no matter what Apple does. Apple is not even trying to take _any_ of my freedom; quite the opposite, they are giving me more and better code to do anything I want with. The GPL-people are the only people here that want to take away freedom. Eivind.
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 12:31:14 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6s0v6i$f6f@enews4.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> writes: > fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >> >> >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from >> >commercial abuse. > > At least it tries to, and that's what counts. >> >> ``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to >> work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people >> investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some >> credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply >> fair. If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the >> details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. > > No, the GNU GPL is the most fair possible license. And the mentioned company > is a mean capitalist and intellectual proprietarist, thus doesn't deserve any > respect for its continued blasphemy. > I sure hope that this statement is a joke?!?! :-). -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <EyAprK.M5t@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Sender: cnews@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (C News Software) Organization: HCRC, University of Edinburgh References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:09:19 GMT In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu (Albert D. Cahalan) writes: >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from >commercial abuse. Not all contributors regard such use as "abuse", and they therefore have no desire to be protected from it. It's entirely up to you whether you want your code to be (potentially) used in the way you describe. You might want to licence it freely for educational use, and not for commercial use. You might want to exclude military use. Choose a licence that supports your goals. You might quite reasonably want to distribute some of your code one way, some another. -- Richard -- Because of all the junk e-mail I receive, all e-mail from .com sites is automatically sent to a file which I only rarely check. If you want to mail me from a .com site, please ensure my surname appears in the headers.
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:46:54 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 13:46:55 GMT yourconscience@work.net writes: > In article <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org>, decklin@base.org says... > > I think you misunderstand. GPL contributors would not feel abused by > > anyone helping them out; only someone trying to destroy their > > freedoms. They don't *have* to be linked. > Intellectual property is a right of the individual. GPL attempts to > conivingly take that right away. People have a right to their own > thoughts. Quite so. What they don't have a right to is package the thoughts of others with their own, then sell that off taking all the profit against the explicit wish of the original creators. The GPL does not take away any right that you had in the first place. > GPL proponents are in the same category of personalities as > date rapists. If the shoe fits, wear it. Doesn't fit. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:43:56 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 13:43:57 GMT yourconscience@work.net writes: > In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, > acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu says... > > Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. > > No flaw here. BSD-style license is the "ethical license". It does not > impose a will upon another to give up trade secrets or to join a cult. > GPL could be restated as: "ok, you can use the source in your code that > you intend to be your livelihood, BUT you have to let us rape you". Nobody forces you to "rape" the original GNU code. If you do, what gives you the right to expect nobody should be allowed to do with the resulting code what you have done? GPLed license has an ethical issue: it enforces certain behaviour considered as ethical, taking away the possibility of making a conscious choice. BSDish licenses do not enforce any ethics. It's up to the recipient to do the right thing. Or not. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 16:36:16 +0200 Message-ID: <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * David Kastrup | yourconscience@work.net writes: | | > In article <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org>, decklin@base.org says... | > > I think you misunderstand. GPL contributors would not feel abused by | > > anyone helping them out; only someone trying to destroy their | > > freedoms. They don't *have* to be linked. | > Intellectual property is a right of the individual. GPL attempts to | > conivingly take that right away. People have a right to their own | > thoughts. | | Quite so. What they don't have a right to is package the thoughts of | others with their own, then sell that off taking all the profit | against the explicit wish of the original creators. The GPL does not | take away any right that you had in the first place. ... and neither does Apple releasing _their own modifications_ in a binary only form. You still have access to the original unmodified source. This is a point many GPL-proponents seem to miss - it is not a question of somebody removing something from the public, it is a question of somebody electing to do something _additional_ because they can get a pay-back on that incremental change. People are both relinquishing their opportunity to have and distribute source and paying actual money _because they get larger benefits then costs from having that incremental change_. GPL denies the users that opportunity - sure, the GPL licenser can say he don't care about that, but he shouldn't pretend that there are no downsides to the GPL - there are, both for later developers and users. Eivind.
From: Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 26 Aug 1998 13:51:57 GMT Organization: Queen's University, Kingston Message-ID: <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (SunOS/5.6 (sun4u)) In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) --------------< LINUX: The choice of a GNU generation. >-------------- Steve Frampton <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3srf
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 17:26:58 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > ... and neither does Apple releasing _their own modifications_ in a > binary only form. You still have access to the original unmodified > source. This is a point many GPL-proponents seem to miss - it is not > a question of somebody removing something from the public, it is a > question of somebody electing to do something _additional_ because > they can get a pay-back on that incremental change. This is not a point lost on GPL proponents -- it's one of the reasons people use the GPL. This point is lost on most anti-GPL disaffectoids, though. It's fine by me if someone makes money off of my work. What I demand in return is that these people offer the same opportunities to other people. If people can't meet my demands, they should stay away from my code. > GPL denies the users that opportunity - sure, the GPL licenser can say > he don't care about that, but he shouldn't pretend that there are no > downsides to the GPL - there are, both for later developers and users. I see no downsides for me when I use the GPL. I can only profit by people taking my code, adding neat things to it, and releasing it. I can then take these changes and put them back into my releases. I win. I *wuv* the GPL. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: ashwin.bihari@cant.spam.me (Ashwin Bihari) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:29:38 GMT Organization: University of Massachusetts Lowell Message-ID: <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:29:38 GMT On 26 Aug 1998 13:51:57 GMT, <Frampton Steve R> wrote: > In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can > : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > creation. :^) Atleast he WISHES he had! :) Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but didn't feel it was going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it over and put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows for the DOS platform..or the story goes something like that..Regard -- /-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ |Ashwin Bihari University of Massachusetts Lowell| |E-Mail: ashwinbihari@bigfoot.com Department of Computer Science | |Primary URL: http://welcome.to/linuxresource | |Secondary URL: http://members.xoom.com/abihari | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | NOTE: The E-mail address on top has been mangled to stop Spam Bots..please | | use the address in this box for replying. | \-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Message-ID: <35E42A5E.403D6F2E@minds-eye.net> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:31:42 +0100 From: Paul Firth <paul@minds-eye.net> Organization: Minds Eye Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frampton Steve R wrote: > In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can > : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > creation. :^) (Darth vader's voice) "Young fool..." ;^) -- --------------------------------- Cheers, Paul (paul@minds-eye.net) --------------------------------- Will there be T.P ?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <EyAz6v.EEH@T-FCN.Net> Sender: news@T-FCN.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk Organization: none References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <EyAprK.M5t@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:32:54 GMT In <EyAprK.M5t@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Richard Tobin wrote: > It's entirely up to you whether you want your code to be (potentially) > used in the way you describe. You might want to licence it freely for > educational use, and not for commercial use. You might want to > exclude military use. Choose a licence that supports your goals. You > might quite reasonably want to distribute some of your code one way, > some another. Well put. Maury
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <EyAytL.E67@T-FCN.Net> Sender: news@T-FCN.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU Organization: none References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:24:56 GMT In <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> Frank Crary wrote: > Unix. Given that, I _am_ happy that DEC ``abused'' the BSD license > and ``stole'' parts without giving anything back to the community > or distributing source. If they couldn't do that, there would > be no BSD heritage or software in Digital Unix, and that looks > like the OS I will be stuck with if I decide to buy a DEC. It's > available but I have to pay is vastly better than it isn't available. If I may interrupt at this point, what exactly _is_ DEC Unix these days? I know at some time in the past it was OSF/1, then they put in STREAMS, then it became DEC Unix. Is it at all related to the earlier OSF/1 based releases? > Yes, but the software would be a derivative product, ``infected'' > by the GPL, and they couldn't sell it. Well, technically, they > could, but they would have to give away the source, which means > they could only sell it for what cutting a CDROM and customer > support is worth. That isn't enough to cover the costs of getting > a Unix-like OS running on a new machine, nor provide a reasonable > return on their investment. Please note that Apple is in the > business of making money, which they would have a hard time > doing if they used GPLed code rather than BSD licensed code. > Note that this is a commercial application, and totally different > from hobbyists and enthusiasts getting Unix-like operating systems > to work on PCs. Now I'm not so sure it's this cut and dried. Apple's main "money machines" in the OS have nothing to do with the Unix side of things and everything to do with OpenStep, Enterprise Objects, and MacOS compatibility. These portions are completely separate from the OS itself (as witnessed by the PS version of YB for instance) and that's why people will by it. Basically I think Apple could *sell* a distribution which consisted of a GPL'ed or otherwise free OS on the disk, and basically charge $100 for the rest. I also think they could make more money doing the same thing on the PC side, but they apparently disagree with me on that issue. > Nor would I. But I happen to own some Apple stock. As such, I > _expect_ them to do things that make money. Useful but unprofitable > development projects are a fine thing, as are other types of > charity work, but Apple isn't in the charity business. If the > people at Apple want to do development work for free, fine. (In > fact I would think very highly of them for it.) But that's a > project to pursue on their weekends, not on company time. So > I _would_ expect Apple to say, ``we won't help *anybody* unless > we can make money in the process.'' (Also note that this does not > necessarily mean direct profits. There are other ways to make money. > Consider Sun and JAVA, or the initial distribution of Netscape.) Nevertheless Apple *is* putting code back into the free BSD's - or so they claim, I haven't looked over the CVS logs lately to check. Is this the model for a new way to work in this industry? Let's hope so! Maury
From: dcl@panix.com (David C. Lambert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Fiend porting efforts? Date: 26 Aug 1998 11:56:18 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Message-ID: <6s1b72$c6k@panix.com> Hi. I have seen snippets of messages that claim that Fiend.app has been ported to Rhapsody. Assuming that this is true, could someone please fill me in on who is doing it, the current status, and where to find it? TIA. - dcl
From: mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk (Mark Wooding) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:52:10 GMT Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre Message-ID: <slrn6u8bpa.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> Frank Crary <fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote: > But let's face it: Even if I use FreeBSD or Linux on a PC, I > end up paying Microsoft some money. (My employer gets educational > discounts from Gateway, and that deal makes it hard for me to buy a > PC from other sources. So I get Win98 with the machine and have > to pay for it, even though I'm going to wipe the hard drive and > install a reasonable operating system.) I'm using Linux on a PC at home, and I certainly didn't buy a licence for any operating system, Microsoft or otherwise, when I bought it. Admittedly, I bought the machine as individual parts and assembled them on the living room carpet, but it was a nice machine at the time I bought it (and still fairly respectable), and runs Linux very well. Building PCs from parts is easy, it's (slightly) cheaper than buying complete boxes, and it gives you much better control over the hardware bits, which tends to be the main problem with free operating systems. -- [mdw]
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 09:06:08 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> >| > Intellectual property is a right of the individual. GPL attempts to >| > conivingly take that right away. People have a right to their own >| > thoughts. >| >| Quite so. What they don't have a right to is package the thoughts of >| others with their own, then sell that off taking all the profit >| against the explicit wish of the original creators. The GPL does not >| take away any right that you had in the first place. Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >... and neither does Apple releasing _their own modifications_ in a >binary only form. Wrong. Copyright law gives no one but the author the right to make derivative works. Apple has no right to make modifications to anyone else's software without explicit permission of the copyright owner. With BSD, this permission is granted under one set of conditions. With GPL, this permission is granted under another set of conditions. >You still have access to the original unmodified source. But software that is not maintained gradually dies, as the hardware, the computer languages, the protocols and file formats change, software that does not change gradually becomes useless. BSD software can deal with all of this, as long as there is a group of people acting *as if* it were GPLed, that is, sending back all of their changes according to the original license. But if these necessary enhancements are done in a proprietary manner, the public really does lose the benefit of the original program with time, if they lack the expertise to adapt the software themselves. > This is a point many GPL-proponents seem to miss Most authors recognize that the license you choose is a tradeoff -- the GPL is one possible tradeoff, and the BSD license is another. Many people who write both commercial and free software put all their free software under the GPL; otherwise they are subsidizing their competition. As, I think, Russ Nelson said: "When I write commercial software I expect to get paid." >People are both >relinquishing their opportunity to have and distribute source and >paying actual money _because they get larger benefits then costs from >having that incremental change_. >GPL denies the users that opportunity - sure, the GPL licenser can say >he don't care about that, but he shouldn't pretend that there are no >downsides to the GPL - there are, both for later developers and users. In both cases, people can pay someone money to make an enhancement. The economics change, true, meaning that the contractor might have to recover the full cost from the first client, rather than hoping to sell the enhancement to many people. But the fact remains that if it weren't for the GPL, there would be no free C++ compiler and no free Objective-C compiler: in both cases, the institutions employing the folks who did the work investigated making what are now GNU C++ and GNU Objective-C proprietary products; NeXT even wanted to use a fancy user-does-the-link scheme to accomplish this. When they found they couldn't get around the GPL, they made the code free. If gcc had been under the GPL, g++ would have died years ago, as MCC wasn't going to try to compete as a compiler vendor. GNU Objective-C would have been NeXT Objective-C. Given the gcc experience, it seems that clearly the positives exceed the negatives. Now, in other cases the tradeoffs are different. A consortium of commercial companies supporting university research might want the code produced to be under a BSD-like license, so they can commercialize it more easily. The community can still benefit. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:15:41 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 16:15:43 GMT fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > Yes, but the software would be a derivative product, ``infected'' > by the GPL, and they couldn't sell it. Well, technically, they > could, but they would have to give away the source, which means > they could only sell it for what cutting a CDROM and customer > support is worth. That isn't enough to cover the costs of getting > a Unix-like OS running on a new machine, nor provide a reasonable > return on their investment. Please note that Apple is in the > business of making money, which they would have a hard time > doing if they used GPLed code rather than BSD licensed code. Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. And we all know that this has caused the IBM PC to be a big failure as compared to the Apple, and that IBM has had almost no turnover due to delivering the stuff with free and open basic system components. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Peter Granroth <devnull@granroth.ml.org> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:16:11 +0200 Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden Message-ID: <84yasb90s4.fsf@granis.hemmet.s-hem.chalmers.se> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <35E42A5E.403D6F2E@minds-eye.net> Paul Firth <paul@minds-eye.net> writes: > Frampton Steve R wrote: > > > In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > > : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > > : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can > > : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > > > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > > creation. :^) > > (Darth vader's voice) "Young fool..." ;^) Shouldn't that be the emperor's voice? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ + Peter Granroth + Microsoft is NOT the answer + + mailto:devnull@granroth.ml.org + Microsoft is the question + + http://granroth.ml.org + The answer is NO + ------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 09:18:51 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: >I see no downsides for me when I use the GPL. I can only profit by >people taking my code, adding neat things to it, and releasing it. I >can then take these changes and put them back into my releases. I >win. Given two projects, one under GPL and one under a BSD license, both of which I'd like to work on, but I only have time for one, I'd find it more useful to work on the BSD one, because I don't have to compartmentize my programing to make sure nothing seeps back from the free side to the work side. With your code, if I spend months working on it, making great contributions, and then want to take some small part, just a few hundred lines, and put it in my 100k line program, I have to release my whole program under GPL. That's a steep price, and it will keep some programmers away from contributing to your code. --Tim Smith
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 09:33:08 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s1dc4$i4n$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> I wrote: >If gcc had been under the GPL, g++ would have died years ago, as MCC wasn't Obviously "had" should be "hadn't" here. Sorry. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:36:17 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) writes: > With your code, if I spend months working on it, making great > contributions, and then want to take some small part, just a few > hundred lines, and put it in my 100k line program, I have to release > my whole program under GPL. No, you don't. A license only applies to the people who get the code -- it does not limit what the author of the code can do with the code. You may release your code under as many licenses you wish. Perl, for instance, is licensed under two different licenses, and the users may choose which they want to use. > That's a steep price, and it will keep some programmers away from > contributing to your code. If programmers misunderstand what a license is, then yes. It has been my experience that programmers that choose the GPL generally do know fully what it entails. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: Steinar Hamre <steinarh@stud.fim.ntnu.no> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:41:44 +0200 Organization: The Norwegian University of Science and Technology Sender: steinarh@demokrit.fim.ntnu.no Message-ID: <cn290kbvgon.fsf@demokrit.fim.ntnu.no> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <EyAytL.E67@T-FCN.Net> maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) writes: > If I may interrupt at this point, what exactly _is_ DEC Unix these > days? I know at some time in the past it was OSF/1, then they put > in STREAMS, then it became DEC Unix. Is it at all related to the > earlier OSF/1 based releases? It's only a name-change. The OSF^H^H^HDigital Unix' uname stll says "OSF1". Steinar
From: espel@news.ens.fr (Roger Espel Llima) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 16:50:29 GMT Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure, Paris Message-ID: <6s1ecl$4l9$1@nef.ens.fr> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> In article <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net>, Tim Smith <tzs@halcyon.com> wrote: >Given two projects, one under GPL and one under a BSD license, both of >which I'd like to work on, but I only have time for one, I'd find it more >useful to work on the BSD one, because I don't have to compartmentize my >programing to make sure nothing seeps back from the free side to the work >side. With your code, if I spend months working on it, making great >contributions, and then want to take some small part, just a few hundred >lines, and put it in my 100k line program, I have to release my whole >program under GPL. That's a steep price, and it will keep some >programmers away from contributing to your code. well, I assume you're aware that if you wrote those 100 lines, you can use them no matter what. the code you have written is fully yours, unless you signed it away (to an employer, or to the FSF, or to whoever else). if you want to take a 100-line bit of a free program that you've worked on, into another program that isn't free, it makes sense that you need to ask the copyright holder for permission, or just to rewrite the bit from the ideas. and if the bit is small and trivial enough, it'd most likely not be copyrightable, so you can just cut and paste it. -- Roger Espel Llima, espel@llaic.u-clermont1.fr http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/espel/index.html
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 19:09:09 +0200 Message-ID: <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Joe Buck | >| > Intellectual property is a right of the individual. GPL attempts to | >| > conivingly take that right away. People have a right to their own | >| > thoughts. | >| | >| Quite so. What they don't have a right to is package the thoughts of | >| others with their own, then sell that off taking all the profit | >| against the explicit wish of the original creators. The GPL does not | >| take away any right that you had in the first place. | | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: | >... and neither does Apple releasing _their own modifications_ in a | >binary only form. | | Wrong. Copyright law gives no one but the author the right to make | derivative works. Apple has no right to make modifications to anyone | else's software without explicit permission of the copyright owner. | With BSD, this permission is granted under one set of conditions. | With GPL, this permission is granted under another set of conditions. Eh? This does not contradict what I wrote. Before Apple do modifications to a BSD-based sourcebase, you don't have any right to (or even theoretical possibility of) running that code from source. After Apple do modifications and release this in binary form, you have no right to run that code from source (if they don't contribute their changes back). You've not lost any right. | >You still have access to the original unmodified source. | | But software that is not maintained gradually dies, as the hardware, | the computer languages, the protocols and file formats change, software | that does not change gradually becomes useless. BSD software can deal | with all of this, as long as there is a group of people acting *as if* | it were GPLed, that is, sending back all of their changes according to | the original license. No. It is enough that one send back the necessary enhancements to port etc - this is not the same as 'all their changes'. I'm sending back most of my changes to FreeBSD, but not all - and 'not all' is part of what I need to get my pay-check (without which I could not work on free software much at all). | But if these necessary enhancements are done in a proprietary | manner, the public really does lose the benefit of the original | program with time, if they lack the expertise to adapt the software | themselves. Sure. And if the enchancements are not done, they loose the benefit. I don't see the principal difference; there are a lot of cases where people will not work on a sourcebase due to license. In my own case, I will only work on GPLed software if it provide me with immediate benefit - I cannot as a long-term investement, as I don't trust the GPL to let me do the things I need later. | > This is a point many GPL-proponents seem to miss | | Most authors recognize that the license you choose is a tradeoff -- the | GPL is one possible tradeoff, and the BSD license is another. Many | people who write both commercial and free software put all their free | software under the GPL; otherwise they are subsidizing their competition. | As, I think, Russ Nelson said: "When I write commercial software I expect | to get paid." Sure, people are afraid of getting 'exploited'. I'm here partially to raise the state of the art, and I'm here to do the overall software community a service - I don't care if somebody else might be able to make some money off parts of it. For most changes, I don't even care that they benefit our direct competitors - many of them do the same, so we all come out of it positive :-) Besides, taking large amounts of changes properitary is counter-productive. It just increase maintenance costs. | >People are both | >relinquishing their opportunity to have and distribute source and | >paying actual money _because they get larger benefits then costs from | >having that incremental change_. | | >GPL denies the users that opportunity - sure, the GPL licenser can say | >he don't care about that, but he shouldn't pretend that there are no | >downsides to the GPL - there are, both for later developers and users. | | In both cases, people can pay someone money to make an enhancement. The | economics change, true, meaning that the contractor might have to recover | the full cost from the first client, rather than hoping to sell the | enhancement to many people. ... which in practice mean that the opportunity isn't there. | But the fact remains that if it weren't for the GPL, there would be no | free C++ compiler and no free Objective-C compiler: in both cases, | the institutions employing the folks who did the work investigated making | what are now GNU C++ and GNU Objective-C proprietary products; NeXT even | wanted to use a fancy user-does-the-link scheme to accomplish this. | When they found they couldn't get around the GPL, they made the code free. | | If gcc had been under the GPL, g++ would have died years ago, as MCC wasn't | going to try to compete as a compiler vendor. GNU Objective-C would have | been NeXT Objective-C. Given the gcc experience, it seems that clearly | the positives exceed the negatives. Without BSD-license, there would have been no TCP/IP. Given the TCP/IP experience, it seems clearly the positives exceed the negatives. The clue is to look at each situation and see what license is appropriate. For anything where you want to advance the state of the art, BSD-license (or even more free) is appropriate. For most development tools, I'd probably go with the GPL - these are to a large degreee seen as so necessary to do enchancements to that they will be done no matter what. | Now, in other cases the tradeoffs are different. A consortium of commercial | companies supporting university research might want the code produced to | be under a BSD-like license, so they can commercialize it more easily. | The community can still benefit. They will, unfortunately, all too often place it under a technology-exchange program or similar :-( See Motif, for instance :-( OTOH, with a GPL or LGPL-style license, it is likely this would never have taken off at all... Eivind.
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <by4suzpy7e.fsf@bolzano.math.ethz.ch> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 19:11:45 +0200 Message-ID: <86af4rpt0u.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Jan Vroonhof | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | | > question of somebody electing to do something _additional_ because | > they can get a pay-back on that incremental change. People are both | > relinquishing their opportunity to have and distribute source and | > paying actual money _because they get larger benefits then costs from | > having that incremental change_. | > | > GPL denies the users that opportunity | | No it doesn't. The users that get larger benefits then costs from | having a certain change can still pay for it to be done. I was slightly unclear. I was referring to somebody doing incremental changes because they can get their costs re-couped from somebody else later - ie, commercial software. | However since it disallows hoarding it makes it difficult to use the | traditional method of sharing that cost over multiple users/customers. | (author puts up an investment upfront and then sells the product to each | customer individually for a fraction of that). Therefore one expects | the costs above to be higher. | Suprisingly some products seem to be doing well using this method | even though they are GPL. Sure, as long as the changes are generally cheap, it can work on a consultancy basis. However, for really expensive changes this most often will not work. Eivind.
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:21:22 +0200 Message-ID: <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | | > ... and neither does Apple releasing _their own modifications_ in a | > binary only form. You still have access to the original unmodified | > source. This is a point many GPL-proponents seem to miss - it is not | > a question of somebody removing something from the public, it is a | > question of somebody electing to do something _additional_ because | > they can get a pay-back on that incremental change. | | This is not a point lost on GPL proponents -- it's one of the reasons | people use the GPL. This point is lost on most anti-GPL | disaffectoids, though. | | It's fine by me if someone makes money off of my work. What I demand | in return is that these people offer the same opportunities to other | people. If people can't meet my demands, they should stay away from | my code. They offer the same opportunity to others under a BSD-style license. The minimum is exactly the same opportunity - start from the old codebase. Often, they contribute back large parts of their changes, And they are not making money off your work (unless you're talking media distributors, like CD-ROM people) - they are making money off the incremental changes they've done. The initial work is already available for free. | > GPL denies the users that opportunity - sure, the GPL licenser can say | > he don't care about that, but he shouldn't pretend that there are no | > downsides to the GPL - there are, both for later developers and users. | | I see no downsides for me when I use the GPL. I can only profit by | people taking my code, adding neat things to it, and releasing it. I | can then take these changes and put them back into my releases. I | win. You're missing at least one fundamental point: Codebases are not license-insensitive. Whether people work on a codebase is dependent on which license it is under. A large fraction of the "free" software people I know won't work on a GPLed codebase; the same is true for companies, for which it often is cheaper to commerically license a non-encumbered codebase from another company than to take the risk of using GPLed code for things they _may_ not want to release as source. (Yes, I know NeXT has done a mistake at one point. I don't consider this a useful argument in favour of the GPL.) So you end up (in some cases) with people not taking your code, adding neat things to it and releasing it _in any form_. In this case, you loose. In the case where they would have released it in binary form only, you would have had a pretty much neutral result, possibly considered slightly positive by having driven the state of the art. In the case where they would have released part in binary form and given part back to you as source, you are now at a loss because they didn't touch your codebase. | I *wuv* the GPL. Whatever that is supposed to mean. Eivind.
From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih+nr@nhh.no> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 09:09:25 +0200 Organization: UNINETT news service Sender: tih@athene.nhh.no Message-ID: <86pvdo43tm.fsf@athene.nhh.no> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > Given that, I _am_ happy that DEC ``abused'' the BSD license and > ``stole'' parts without giving anything back to the community or > distributing source. I wasn't going to join this discussion, but I just have to point out, for fairness' sake, that DEC has always given a heck of a lot back to the community, in source form, and they keep on doing so. Just to give a recent example, they chose NetBSD as the first operating system for their ARM-based NC design, and contributed all their work back. As for the GPL versus BSD copyright discussion, I would suggest that we just accept the following: some people feel that the free software developing community is best served by saying "you can't use any of our code unless everything you do with it is given back", while others prefer to say "go ahead and use our code, but do give us credit, and if you can give something back, that will be appreciated". Much can be said in defense of each position, and repeatedly has. -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier"
From: Thomas Rankin <trankin@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:44:53 +0100 Message-ID: <35E457A5.3668AAD@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ashwin Bihari wrote: > On 26 Aug 1998 13:51:57 GMT, <Frampton Steve R> wrote: > > In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > > : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > > : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can > > : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > > > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > > creation. :^) > > Atleast he WISHES he had! :) Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but > didn't feel it was going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it > over and put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and > the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows for the > DOS platform..or the story goes something like that..Regard > Theres lots of ridiculous rumours stating that Xerox cancelled the Dev. work because they were afraid of it making paper obsolete. But AFAIR the management didn't have any confidence in there being a marketable roduct at the end of all the development work. (Crazy Fools). Steve Jobs didn't take over the development, he saw the Idea and started from scratch.
Sender: klaus@debian Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> From: Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:22:08 +0200 Message-ID: <87n28rvc1b.fsf@ivm.de> Organization: IVM GmbH yourconscience@work.net writes: > In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, > acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu says... > > Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. > > No flaw here. BSD-style license is the "ethical license". It does not > impose a will upon another to give up trade secrets or to join a cult. > GPL could be restated as: "ok, you can use the source in your code that > you intend to be your livelihood, BUT you have to let us rape you". No, it's quite the other way round. GNU GPL is the only ethical license. Klaus Schilling
From: Artur Grabowski <art@stacken.kth.se> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 22:19:31 +0200 Sender: art@sundance.stacken.kth.se Message-ID: <lub4suzmr70.fsf@sundance.stacken.kth.se> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <87n28rvc1b.fsf@ivm.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> writes: > No, it's quite the other way round. GNU GPL is the only ethical license. *sigh* I have worked many nights, consumed lots of coffee, I gave up my personal life, got almost kicked out of my job and the result of that I give to you to do anything you wish, even sell without revealing your changes. The only thing I ask you to is to say that I wrote the code. I'm the most evil and unethincal person on this earth because I give away my work without forcing you to publish your changes. Are you aware of that you have _insulted_ a lot of people reading your post? //art
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 21:14:13 GMT Organization: FNX Ltd, Intelligent Risk Management Message-ID: <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) wrote on MDCCCXXI September MCMXCIII in <URL: news:86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>: ++ ++ Without BSD-license, there would have been no TCP/IP. Given the ++ TCP/IP experience, it seems clearly the positives exceed the ++ negatives. That is of course bullshit. If it wasn't written by BSD, someone else would have written it. Just like Linux. Or X. Or gcc. Abigail
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:37:57 +0200 Message-ID: <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * abigail@fnx.com | Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) wrote on MDCCCXXI September MCMXCIII in | <URL: news:86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>: | ++ | ++ Without BSD-license, there would have been no TCP/IP. Given the | ++ TCP/IP experience, it seems clearly the positives exceed the | ++ negatives. | | That is of course bullshit. If it wasn't written by BSD, someone else | would have written it. Just like Linux. Or X. Or gcc. Know your history before accusing somebody of 'of course bullshit'. TCP/IP was successfull for a large part because it had a reference implementation that people were free to use as they wanted. This resulted in a lot of systems vendors including TCP/IP in addition to their own properitary protocols; now, TCP/IP suddenly let systems from different vendors talk to each other... The clue wasn't that it was written by CSRG (not BSD - BSD was the name of the distribution), it was that it was licensed with a free license. A license that allowed the companies writing kernels to include TCP/IP in their kernels without having to give away the source to those kernels. And, Mr. "Of Course Bullshit", you can go do something that contribute something to the world. Like locking yourself up in a room and reading for a year or two before you again impose your opinions on the world. Eivind.
From: anthonNO-SPAMp9@mail.idt.net (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:33:53 -0500 Organization: PBS Message-ID: <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> Seesh! All the intricate discussions of a basic pattern. Why can't everyone just accept the GPL as the pyramid scheme it is and move on? Tony - Kill java today, GPL tomorrow and we'll begin to see industry productivity again.
From: matthew kapps gumbel <mgumbel@students.uiuc.edu> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:06:22 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Message-ID: <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Tony <anthonNO-SPAMp9@mail.idt.net> wrote: > Seesh! All the intricate discussions of a basic pattern. Why can't > everyone just accept the GPL as the pyramid scheme it is and move on? who's at the top of the pyramid? Matt -- matt gumbel <mgumbel@uiuc.edu> Computer Engineering at the University of Illinois PGP: 01 EF 61 53 BB F8 58 E5 47 56 5F A0 5C 1C 8C FA
Sender: decklin@kiteless.dyn.ml.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> From: Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> Message-ID: <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Date: 26 Aug 1998 19:05:37 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:06:20 EDT Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> writes: > No, you don't. A license only applies to the people who get the code > -- it does not limit what the author of the code can do with the > code. You may release your code under as many licenses you wish. I think that Tim was instead implying that if he contributed to some GPL he would allow the maintainer to own the copyright. Some free programs do actually say "Copyright (C) <maintainer> and others." If he really beleive he deserves to "take something back" then he can keep his own copyright and do what you said. Personally, I think the best solution is to modularize all systems to the extent that the hoarder's contribution and the GPLer's contribution can be considered "separate works." This makes it even easier for us to write a free replacement for Tim's module, or anything similar. -- please read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ "cry me a bayou/and i'm leaving..." -tricky
From: moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 17:05:27 -0600 Organization: The Children's Hospital of Denver Sender: is001652@nasrullah.tchden.org Message-ID: <yq367ffny2w.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> anthonNO-SPAMp9@mail.idt.net (Tony) writes: > Seesh! All the intricate discussions of a basic pattern. Why can't > everyone just accept the GPL as the pyramid scheme it is and move on? Perhaps it is because the GPL isn't a Pyramid (or Ponzi) scheme? The classic pyramid scheme uses the money collected from each generation of investor (read victim) to pay huge returns to the earlier generations of investor (read crook). Ultimately it collapses under its own weight. GPL is similar to making a dedicated gift to a charity. BSD is similar to making an unrestricted gift to a charity. Commercial is similar to making a sale to a charity. Use the form that works for you. Don't blast at the form that works for me. Thanks. > > Tony > > - Kill java today, GPL tomorrow and we'll begin to see industry > productivity again. Louis
From: TonyNOSPam@NOSPam.ForMe (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:57:03 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.104e5dc8203068f2989685@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> In article <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, mgumbel@students.uiuc.edu says... > In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Tony <anthonNO-SPAMp9@mail.idt.net> wrote: > > Seesh! All the intricate discussions of a basic pattern. Why can't > > everyone just accept the GPL as the pyramid scheme it is and move on? > > who's at the top of the pyramid? Those who will capitalize on the labor of others, like Redhat? Feaux leaders who have wasted people's time (uncompensated labor, in a capitalistic setting no less! is that a crime or what?)? Tony - "Leader" a new definition: one who has freed others. Kinda makes a lot of people in the news masters of slaves instead doesn't it. Vocabulary of enslavement for our times: Institution Corporation Review Technical Person GPL Microscumbag New Technology Broker (add your own here)
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 02:07:23 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2yasbe18k.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 00:07:25 GMT anthonNO-SPAMp9@mail.idt.net (Tony) writes: > Seesh! All the intricate discussions of a basic pattern. Why can't > everyone just accept the GPL as the pyramid scheme it is and move on? A pyramid scheme is defined by few people profiting from many, certainly not by an entire pyramid profiting from everybody else in it. > - Kill java today, Sun is working on that already. > GPL tomorrow and we'll begin to see industry productivity again. Of course. Without GPLed software there are much more possibilities of reinventing the wheel. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruc03$h5p@grimer.diku.dk> <42963758@welcome.north.de> <6s0g5e$or3@grimer.diku.dk> From: "Sven Drieling" <indy@welcome.north.de> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:41:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <42963782@welcome.north.de> Organization: Power-Brei Magazin Torben AEgidius Mogensen wrote on 26 Aug 1998 10:14:38 +0200 in comp.sys.amiga.misc about Re: Histroy of the GUI?: Hi, TAM> > Engelbart TAM> TAM> It is "Englebart". Look it up. I did it's "Engelbart" or we are talking about different persons -> http://www.bootstrap.org/org.htm#Douglas tschuess [|8:)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: qed@apexmail.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:18:45 +0930 Message-ID: <1deezzm.16e6pil66q2jfN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> Organization: Quantum Education Developments Ashwin Bihari <ashwin.bihari@cant.spam.me> wrote: > Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone > can give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but > didn't feel it was going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it > over and put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and > the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows for the > DOS platform..or the story goes something like that. Basically. Jeff might also want to have a look at an excellent book on interface design called "About Face" by Alan Cooper - one of the original developers of Windows for Bill - and the first few chapters look at the initial development of the GUI and what it means. In all truth, Alan thinks that GUIs should really be called VUIs - *visual* user interfaces. Geoffrey -- ------------------------qed-@-apexmail.com------------------------ -- What I say may - or may not be - the truth. "I think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise."
Sender: decklin@kiteless.dyn.ml.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <6s06pi$11ic$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <86emu4orrd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> From: Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> Message-ID: <m3u32zdxdp.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Date: 26 Aug 1998 21:30:42 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:31:25 EDT Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > It makes value judgements based on some idea of an end-users' freedom > being more important than the freedom of a developer. Do you really think that's not true? People who use software *are* the most important people. Free software is written to help them, not to be kept from helping them because the author has the "freedom" to do that. There is no such thing as freedom if you just blindly give everyone the "freedom" to oppress and take away the freedoms of others. With GPL software, there is no distinction between the "end-user" and the "developer" that you talk about. Everyone has the same source *and* the same garuntee that no one can take it away. Software is supposed to work for people, not the other way around. If some people have more freedom to do something with software (again, giving *anyone* "more freedom" than another person is antithetical to the very concept of freedom), then the software works for them, and the people work for the software because they don't necessarily have the power to use/learn from/modify it anymore. They only get it if the "developer" says so. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. > It is based on taking freedom away to hinder the "terrible" case of > a user voluntarily purchasing software which he can't re-distribute > because he wants features that has been developed to make him > purchase. (See the catch-22?) That is very clearly not the purpose of the GPL. Most people buy proprietary software because they don't know there are any alternatives. Besides, "features" that are developed to make someone buy a propretary license (and buy into "authors rights" thinking) are not features, they're marketing. A feature is developed because someone wants the software *they* use to be able to do something else. It's impossible to add this unless you have the freedom to modify that software. People who buy proprietary software just get a buch of "features" that end up becoming useless when they need something else. -- please read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ "cry me a bayou/and i'm leaving..." -tricky
Sender: decklin@kiteless.dyn.ml.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <MPG.104e5dc8203068f2989685@netnews.worldnet.att.net> From: Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> Message-ID: <m3soijdx8i.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Date: 26 Aug 1998 21:33:49 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:34:31 EDT Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ TonyNOSPam@NOSPam.ForMe (Tony) writes: > Those who will capitalize on the labor of others, like Redhat? Erm, RedHat isn't stealing anything, they're helping GPL software get to more people. > Feaux leaders who have wasted people's time (uncompensated labor, in > a capitalistic setting no less! is that a crime or what?)? In that case, I know several unsigned musicians who might want to talk to you... :-) -- please read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ "cry me a bayou/and i'm leaving..." -tricky
Sender: decklin@kiteless.dyn.ml.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> From: Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> Message-ID: <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Date: 26 Aug 1998 21:55:18 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:55:58 EDT Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > And? Let's put this into context. I believe Digital Unix contains a > large amount of BSD code. > I _am_ happy that DEC ``abused'' the BSD license and ``stole'' parts > without giving anything back to the community or distributing > source. If they couldn't do that, there would be no BSD heritage or > software in Digital Unix, and that looks like the OS I will be stuck > with if I decide to buy a DEC. DEC could do the same thing with GPL code. Just because one package in your distribution is free, doesn't mean you can't continue to make the kernel or whatever propietary, and sell the system however DEC UNIX is sold now. If DEC had doen that, not only would you have a semi-good OS to work with, your community would have more source code that you could use for other systems. As you illustrate, with BSD this is impossible. > Yes, but the software would be a derivative product, ``infected'' > by the GPL, and they couldn't sell it. No, you can sell free software. You just can't restrict anyone you sell it to from giving it away. You can also sell a proprietary (BSD-derived or not) OS and ship GNU tools with source code alongside it. > Apple isn't in the charity business. But if Apple contributes to GPLed software, it can use it and benefit from it. That's not strictly "charity." That also does not restrict its ability to sell more Macintoshes. Yes, Apple probably makes lots of money on hardware. Just like Digital, they can include GPLed software in an OS which they can still liscense in such a way that *they* get to decide if there are Mac clones or not. While I don't *like* this, Half GNU is better than no GNU. -- please read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ "cry me a bayou/and i'm leaving..." -tricky
From: "Don Romero" <d9090@indy.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:18:28 -0500 Organization: IndyNet - Indys Internet Gateway (info@indy.net) Message-ID: <6s2jav$4d5$1@news.indy.net> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> Arthur Hagen wrote in message <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no>... >With Commodore >128 you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. If you're referring to GEOS, it was available for the 64 first. It may even have been available before the 128 was released. d.
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 03:46:03 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6s2kpr$50l@enews1.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <MPG.104e5dc8203068f2989685@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <m3soijdx8i.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <m3soijdx8i.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org>, Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> writes: > TonyNOSPam@NOSPam.ForMe (Tony) writes: > >> Those who will capitalize on the labor of others, like Redhat? > > Erm, RedHat isn't stealing anything, they're helping GPL software get > to more people. > Erm, users and redistributors of BSD'ed binaries and/or sources aren't stealing anything, they're helping useful software and derived works get to more people. RedHat is quite dependent on the good graces of a bunch of developers for their living. They might add a little to the effort (in relative terms), but are leveraging and quite dependent on a lot of developers by giving those developers' work away for free. If they were in the business of creating significant derived works, with intensive investment, that is *almost* inconsistant with the $20M gross business that I have heard claims that they are. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
From: sdlee@faith.csis.hku.hk (Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~}) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 27 Aug 1998 11:51:58 +0800 Organization: Department of Computer Science and Information Systems, The University of Hong Kong Message-ID: <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! -- Lee Sau Dan $(0,X)wAV(B(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | http://www.cs.hku.hk/~sdlee e-mail: sdlee@cs.hku.hk | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:06:25 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s2pna$m5n$1@news12.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:10:02 GMT Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote in message >Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 >creation. :^) Good lord, didn't ANYBODY realize you were making a joke? Sheesh!
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:06:25 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s2pkl$e67$1@news12.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:08:37 GMT Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote in message >Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 >creation. :^) Good lord, didn't ANYBODY realize you were making a joke? Sheesh!
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:06:25 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s2pie$7qg$1@news12.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:07:26 GMT Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote in message >Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 >creation. :^) Good lord, didn't ANYBODY realize you were making a joke? Sheesh!
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:06:25 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s2q6d$ku7$1@news12.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:18:05 GMT Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote in message >Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 >creation. :^) Good lord, didn't ANYBODY realize you were making a joke? Sheesh!
From: Steve Turnbull <steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:41:54 +0100 Organization: The Turnbull Family Message-ID: <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> In message <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> art@kether.broomstick.com (Arthur Hagen) wrote: > Windows was one of the LAST GUIs to arrive, well after the three A's > (Amiga, Atari and Apple). Four A's: Amiga, Atari, Apple and Acorn. -- Steve Turnbull (steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk) http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/ ... No sense in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway.
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:07:47 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s2q6k$ku7$2@news12.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <ant2511330b0t$G3@jim.ukonline.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:18:12 GMT Jim Nagel wrote in message ... >In article <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com>, Jeff Johnson ><URL:mailto:pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: >... >> P.S., an e-mail followup would be appreciated, as I don't subscribe to most >> of these groups. > >but please post replies here too for the benefit of others who are interested! Actually I'm going to make a web site when I get enough information. Its tentative title is "Holy Wars." >and PS -- has Jeff done anti-spam tricks to his e-address? Yep. And I didn't mention it, huh? Sorry.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:25:40 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> wrote: > While I don't *like* this, Half GNU is better than no GNU. No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, shortsighted, dweeb, penny wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk inspired, fungus, insipid mentality borne out by shmo's who think they are entitled free stuff. If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give you something only if you promise to give something back. The former tends to work out better in practice. Nothing true or fine in the materialistic/communist (in the worst most failed sense) GNU philosophy. For a much better and more fine model, see Don Yacktman's most excellent project, the MiscKit at www.misckit.com. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 06:54:02 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m390kbc9ed.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > | It's fine by me if someone makes money off of my work. What I demand > | in return is that these people offer the same opportunities to other > | people. If people can't meet my demands, they should stay away from > | my code. > > They offer the same opportunity to others under a BSD-style license. If they do (that is, they release derivarive works to BSD-licensed software under the BSD license), then that software could have been released under the GPL in the first place. The point of the BSD license is twofold: 1) people should be allowed to distribute derivative works under licenses that are more restrictive if 2) the ego of the person(s) who originally wrote the program are sufficiently stroked. (I.e., you must mention the name of the programmer in ads and stuff.) > You're missing at least one fundamental point: Codebases are not > license-insensitive. Whether people work on a codebase is dependent > on which license it is under. A large fraction of the "free" software > people I know won't work on a GPLed codebase; the same is true for > companies, for which it often is cheaper to commerically license a > non-encumbered codebase from another company than to take the risk of > using GPLed code for things they _may_ not want to release as source. And I know a large fraction of people who work for free software who refuses to work on anything but GPL'd software, as well as companies that only release their free(ish) software under the GPL. I certainly would not have done any of the free software I've done if not for the GPL. Craig Burley wouldn't have written f77. Etc. > So you end up (in some cases) with people not taking your code, adding > neat things to it and releasing it _in any form_. In this case, you > loose. Or I win, since others add to my codebase specifically bacause of the license it bears. I find it fascinating to know how impossible GPL'd software is, especially since virtually the entire operating system I'm now typing this under is GPL'd software, the main exception being XFree86 and TeX. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 06:30:34 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> writes: > I think that Tim was instead implying that if he contributed to some > GPL he would allow the maintainer to own the copyright. Some free > programs do actually say "Copyright (C) <maintainer> and others." If > he really beleive he deserves to "take something back" then he can > keep his own copyright and do what you said. What the copyright notice says is immaterial. Anyone who creates intellectual property autimatically has the copyright to what they have created. The only way to lose that right is to explicitly sign it over, which is something that most people do not do. So contributing 100 lines (under the GPL) to some project does in no way make it difficult to later take those 100 lines and release it in propriatary software. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 06:33:26 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m3btp7cacp.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s2i98$4om$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) writes: > Sorry for not being clear. I meant that I would not be able to take > a small part of the GPL'ed code that I did *not* develop and use it in > my commercial program. Of course you can't. This is what the GPL is designed to prevent -- taking code given to you, producing a derivative work and then refusing to give the rights given to you to other people. > I'm not sure if this would work from a legal point, but in my opinion > the ideal license, if one does not find public domain acceptable, would > be to claim a compiliation copyright on the program as a collection of > individual functions, and license that copyright under GPL or something > similar, but place each individual function in the public domain or > license it under something like BSD. It's certainly not something that I would use for my code. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 05:43:37 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6s2rm9$1r0$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> wrote: > fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > > > > >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from > > >commercial abuse. > > At least it tries to, and that's what counts. Mengele, in his mind, might have only tried to advance the art of medicine, but that's not what counts. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:26:18 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2r9y3g15h.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 16:26:20 GMT To: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) writes: > If gcc had been under the GPL, g++ would have died years ago, as MCC wasn't > going to try to compete as a compiler vendor. gcc *has* been under the GPL and still is. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:03:00 +0100 Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane Ltd. Sender: dom@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk Message-ID: <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free > building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. The IBM PCs never came with the BIOS listings. Compaq spent lots of money and time developing a legal alternative to the IBM PC BIOS. It's also the reason why we had gwbasic instead of the BIOS basic that was built in to the originals. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane dom@phmit.demon.co.uk -- Unix Systems Administrator
From: Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 03:10:12 -0400 Organization: None Message-ID: <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Kheit wrote: > > Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> wrote: > > While I don't *like* this, Half GNU is better than no GNU. > > No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, shortsighted, dweeb, penny > wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk inspired, fungus, insipid mentality borne > out by shmo's who think they are entitled free stuff. > > If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give you something > only if you promise to give something back. The former tends to work out > better in practice. Nothing true or fine in the materialistic/communist (in > the worst most failed sense) GNU philosophy. > > For a much better and more fine model, see Don Yacktman's most excellent > project, the MiscKit at www.misckit.com. While I disagree with the GPL on moral grounds (I don't believe in intellectual property, which the GPL still kinds of relies on, in a not-wanting-to-do-it kind of way), I still feel obliged to point out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be failing in practice. Note that GNU software is everywhere, having a place in probably close to all Unix systems and a large number of other architectures. If your argument is against the BSD license as well, which it seems that it would be (as it would seem to be by your advocacy of making things truly free), then it would be important to mention that the BSD camp has enjoyed similar success to the GNU project. While I don't think that the BSD and GNU licenses are quite perfect, they certainly give me a lot more freedom than I would have with most commercial licenses. Finally, the GNU project doesn't make you give things back. People who don't contribute to the GNU project arn't hunted down by snipers :) -- --------------------------------------------------- Pat Gunn, moderator:comp.sys.newton.announce comoderator:comp.os.os2.moderated "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -- Dr Who http://junior.apk.net/~qc ------------------------------------------------
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 27 Aug 1998 09:22:39 +0200 Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen Message-ID: <6s31fv$bgm@grimer.diku.dk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruc03$h5p@grimer.diku.dk> <42963758@welcome.north.de> <6s0g5e$or3@grimer.diku.dk> <42963782@welcome.north.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 07:22:39 GMT "Sven Drieling" <indy@welcome.north.de> writes: >Torben AEgidius Mogensen wrote on 26 Aug 1998 10:14:38 +0200 in >comp.sys.amiga.misc about Re: Histroy of the GUI?: > Hi, >TAM> > Engelbart >TAM> >TAM> It is "Englebart". Look it up. > I did it's "Engelbart" or we are talking about different > persons -> http://www.bootstrap.org/org.htm#Douglas Hmm. Since this page seems pretty official, I'm inclined to give in. However, I have often seen it spelled the other way. See e.g. http://www.ruku.com/englebart.html, which is obviously speaking about the same person (it even uses teh same portrait). So, it may be a good idea to look for both names. Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 00:20:29 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6s31bt$594$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbc9ed.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: >The point of the BSD license is twofold: 1) people should be allowed >to distribute derivative works under licenses that are more >restrictive if 2) the ego of the person(s) who originally wrote the >program are sufficiently stroked. (I.e., you must mention the name of >the programmer in ads and stuff.) You only have to mention them in the ads if you mention the software or its features. If you just take utility functions from a BSD-licensed system, you won't trigger that. E.g., if I need a config file parsing library and find one in some BSD-licensed program and use it, it is highly unlikely I'll be mentioning my great config file handling in my ads, so I won't trigger the BSD ad requirement. --Tim Smith
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 98 09:15:36 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Aug26091536@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> In-reply-to: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU's message of 26 Aug 1998 03:13:07 GMT In article <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu>, fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: In article <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org>, Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> wrote: >Does the GPL really make Apple's co-operation impossible? If Apple >decided to use GPL software instead, they would have just as much >ability to change that software and would attain just as much of >an improvement in the softare they could use. Yes, but the software would be a derivative product, ``infected'' by the GPL, and they couldn't sell it. Well, technically, they could, but they would have to give away the source, which means they could only sell it for what cutting a CDROM and customer support is worth. That isn't enough to cover the costs of getting a Unix-like OS running on a new machine, nor provide a reasonable return on their investment. Please note that Apple is in the business of making money, This is all non sequitur. To a great degree, NeXT, errr, Apple doesn't give a rat's tuckus about the operating system which underlies their software. They could take any GPL'ed operating system, hack it to their heart's content, and then layer over all their value added and sell it - for a price they feel the value added is worth, completely discounting the Unix layer. As it currently stands, the underlying layers aren't really part of Apple's value-added. They're just necessary parts to enable delivery. I will be the first to say that _I_ value their operating system layer over using something else, like NT. But the operating system layer of NeXTSTEP/OpenStep/Rhapsody isn't all that groundbreaking. I'd much rather have RedHat or OpenBSD at that layer instead. [Of course, this wouldn't include much of the RedHat or OpenBSD user experience, since it's the user experience that MacOS X is selling.] Sure, this allows for a situation where someone could take the free kernel and Unix utilities, compile them, and distribute them as an alternative to MacOS X. Who really cares? You can already use MkLinux, and I don't think Apple really cares that some people might use MkLinux instead of MacOS 8.1. We're talking perhaps a few hundred people out of a few million. Sounds like a reasonable trade-off to me. Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <m2yasbe18k.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 27 Aug 1998 12:02:16 +0200 Message-ID: <86yasaoi8n.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * David Kastrup | > GPL tomorrow and we'll begin to see industry productivity again. | | Of course. Without GPLed software there are much more possibilities | of reinventing the wheel. You only have to re-invent a BSD-licensed wheel if you want it in a GPLed setting (though many break the license and don't even re-invent it then). You have to re-invent a GPL-licensed wheel if you want to use it in any context but a GPL-program. If re-invention is what you want to avoid, throw out the GPL. Reference implementations should be as close to PD as possible. Eivind.
From: art@kether.broomstick.com (Arthur Hagen) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:36:13 GMT Organization: Global One Message-ID: <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> In article <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, ashwin.bihari@cant.spam.me writes: > On 26 Aug 1998 13:51:57 GMT, <Frampton Steve R> wrote: > > > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > > creation. :^) > > Atleast he WISHES he had! :) Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but > didn't feel it was going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it > over and put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and > the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows for the > DOS platform..or the story goes something like that..Regard The Apple Lisa was early, yes, but before that OS-9 for the Dragon 64 (called Tandy in the US) had a working multiuser GUI. With Commodore 128 you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. Windows was one of the LAST GUIs to arrive, well after the three A's (Amiga, Atari and Apple). Regards, -- *Art
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 12:38:55 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2d89m4slc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <MPG.104e5dc8203068f2989685@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <m3soijdx8i.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2kpr$50l@enews1.newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 10:38:56 GMT root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) writes: > RedHat is quite dependent on the good graces of a bunch of developers > for their living. They might add a little to the effort (in relative > terms), but are leveraging and quite dependent on a lot of developers > by giving those developers' work away for free. > > If they were in the business of creating significant derived works, > with intensive investment, that is *almost* inconsistant with the $20M > gross business that I have heard claims that they are. Which must be why they didn't develop and freely distribute under the GPL the RedHat Package Management format and the corresponding tools, and why they don't currently have a set of about half a dozen developers working on GNOME, which is to be distributed under the LGPL, mostly (and those applications that aren't LGPLed will be GPLed). Of course, they are not doing all the work, as on the other side of the lever is a while lot of volunteers responding to the impetus (which would not be doing half as much if not motivated and excited by the progress initiated by RedHat). But they provide a lot of important leverage on their side. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: bdb@GTS.Net (Hello Kittyhawk) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <EyCDy5.MAp.0.hotlips@GTS.Net> Organization: G.T.S., Toronto, Ontario References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:49:16 GMT In article <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk>, Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> wrote: |David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: |> Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free |> building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. | |The IBM PCs never came with the BIOS listings. IBM published the complete BIOS listings in the Tech Ref manual - I have a copy of it, & lots of memories of using it to understand why certain things worked the way they did, & how to do some useful things to replace the often inadequate BIOS code... -- ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario 1 416 699 1868 a /i/ Internet: bdb@gts.org Uucp: ...!gts!bdb `\o\-e millihelen, n. The quantity of beauty required to _< /_ launch one ship. -- Webstar's Fictionary
From: Erik Doernenburg <erik@object-factory.REMOVE-ME.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Fiend porting efforts? Date: 27 Aug 1998 12:04:49 GMT Organization: Object Factory GmbH (Germany) Message-ID: <6s3i11$gjo$1@leonie.object-factory.com> References: <6s1b72$c6k@panix.com> <6s3ft5$cmi$4@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> wrote: > dcl@panix.com (David C. Lambert) wrote: > >Hi. > > > >I have seen snippets of messages that claim that > >Fiend.app has been ported to Rhapsody. Assuming > >that this is true, could someone please fill me in on > >who is doing it, the current status, and where to > >find it? > > Hey, David! Three cheers for David Lambert! Excellent job. > I hope for some sort of merge between Fiend and LaunchBar, > the best of two worlds.. There'll be an announcement in c.s.n.a soon but you can already have a look at http://www.object-factory.com/~erik/Spectre. This little app is a fresh start and might be extended to include LaunchBar functionality, ie. if somebody volunteers... regards, erik -- OBJECT FACTORY, Gesellschaft für Informatik und Datenverarbeitung mbH Telephone: ++49 +231 9751370, Internet: http://www.object-factory.com
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 14:23:30 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2af4q4nr1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 12:23:31 GMT Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> writes: > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > > Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free > > building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. > > The IBM PCs never came with the BIOS listings. Compaq spent lots of > money and time developing a legal alternative to the IBM PC BIOS. > It's also the reason why we had gwbasic instead of the BIOS basic that > was built in to the originals. I was not talking about the Basic. That's not a component of the BIOS. And I distinctly remember having had some assembly listings in the standard IBM binder where at least the routines accessing the keyboard and the UART were listed in assembly language. It might be, however, that this listing concerned only part of the BIOS, and that it came only with the original PC (at least I cannot remember any disk access routines or similar advanced stuff in that listing). Anyhow, the point was that the innards of the IBM PC were not guarded as closely as you demand for successful operation. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 13:56:19 +0100 Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane Ltd. Sender: dom@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk Message-ID: <kgr9y2eg7g.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> <EyCDy5.MAp.0.hotlips@GTS.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII bdb@GTS.Net (Hello Kittyhawk) writes: > In article <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk>, > Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> wrote: > |David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > |> Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free > |> building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. > | > |The IBM PCs never came with the BIOS listings. > > IBM published the complete BIOS listings in the > Tech Ref manual - I have a copy of it, & lots of > memories of using it to understand why certain > things worked the way they did, & how to do some > useful things to replace the often inadequate > BIOS code... *Please* don't post and mail replies... I've already replies to this once, and now I can't remember what I said the first time. Either way, I am certainly wrong in this respect. -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane dom@phmit.demon.co.uk -- Unix Systems Administrator
From: edgar@math.ohio-state.edu (G. A. Edgar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:44:16 -0400 Organization: OSU Message-ID: <edgar-ya02408000R2708980944160001@news.math.ohio-state.edu> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <35E457A5.3668AAD@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It would be interesting to get some of the old put-downs from the PC magazines when the Macintosh was introduced. You know, about how "real" computer users don't need mouses.
From: Paul Vigay <pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:56:32 +0100 Message-ID: <487c3a94a9pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <1deezzm.16e6pil66q2jfN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> Organization: Digital Phenomena In article <1deezzm.16e6pil66q2jfN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au>, Geoffrey Peters <qed@apexmail.com> wrote: > Ashwin Bihari <ashwin.bihari@cant.spam.me> wrote: > > Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > > Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > > history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone > > can give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > > Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but > > didn't feel it was going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it > > over and put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and > > the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows for the > > DOS platform..or the story goes something like that. > Basically. > Jeff might also want to have a look at an excellent book on interface > design called "About Face" by Alan Cooper - one of the original > developers of Windows for Bill - and the first few chapters look at the > initial development of the GUI and what it means. > In all truth, Alan thinks that GUIs should really be called VUIs - > *visual* user interfaces. A very good book on the history of computing and technology and a very well researched look at the way the next 100 years will develop is "Visions" by Michio Kaku (author of 'Hyperspace'). Excellent read! -- Paul Vigay Acorn Programming, __\\|//__ Internet Consultancy http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design -----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------------- Microsoft Windows - The OS for people with no brains. Remove ".vogonpoetry" to reply by email.
From: Paul Vigay <pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:50:45 +0100 Message-ID: <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> Organization: Digital Phenomena In article <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no>, Arthur Hagen <art@kether.broomstick.com> wrote: > The Apple Lisa was early, yes, but before that OS-9 for the Dragon 64 > (called Tandy in the US) had a working multiuser GUI. With Commodore > 128 you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. > Windows was one of the LAST GUIs to arrive, well after the three A's > (Amiga, Atari and Apple). Four A's. You're forgetting Acorn - the best GUI of all - Risc OS. -- Paul Vigay Acorn Programming, __\\|//__ Internet Consultancy http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design -----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------------- Microsoft software: Designed for PCs, written by fools, used by idiots! Remove ".vogonpoetry" to reply by email.
From: Graham Briggs <gb226@cam.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:04:06 +0100 Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Paul Vigay wrote: -)In article <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no>, -) Arthur Hagen <art@kether.broomstick.com> wrote: -)> The Apple Lisa was early, yes, but before that OS-9 for the Dragon 64 -)> (called Tandy in the US) had a working multiuser GUI. With Commodore -)> 128 you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. The Dragon64 was not a Tandy computer. It was developed by a Welsh company, and just happened to be reasonably binary compatible with the Tandy. The Commodore 128 was known for its amazing success, hi-res graphics and amzing sound... not. I do not think it is relevant except to C128 ex-users. -)Four A's. You're forgetting Acorn - the best GUI of all - Risc OS. I had heard that Acorn users were fanatical, but... All GUI's have their merits and downfalls. Some look ugly but are responsive, some look nice and aren't responsive, some look ugly and are unresponsive (Windows) some look lovely but you need to install several new libraries to use them (MUI for Amiga, KDE for Linux etc). I personally do not think much of Risc OS's GUI, its too grey <saying this on a PC with a grey background, grey windows, grey taskbar et al>. Of course I haven't seen the latest version of it. <Look at pictures on web> It looks okay, but nothing special. <awaits flames from hundreds of Acorn users> Of course it looks better than Windoze or MacOS, and it looks nice out of the (expensive) box. Oh RISC OS is still ROM based. Strange, looking at the Acorn machine I see near me which downloads the OS from a server. 2 4Mb ROMS!!!! cost... and before you go on about PC user, I have only been using a PC for a few moneths, before that I used my nice Amiga (which needed patches to keep the GUI up to date, so no comments, please) :-) Graham
From: Nigel Parker <95ncp@eng.cam.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:24:51 +0100 Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96L.980827171406.7902A-100000@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Graham Briggs wrote: : -)Four A's. You're forgetting Acorn - the best GUI of all - Risc OS. : : I had heard that Acorn users were fanatical, but... : : All GUI's have their merits and downfalls. Some look ugly but are : responsive, some look nice and aren't responsive, some look ugly and are : unresponsive (Windows) some look lovely but you need to install several : new libraries to use them (MUI for Amiga, KDE for Linux etc). I : personally do not think much of Risc OS's GUI, its too grey <saying this : on a PC with a grey background, grey windows, grey taskbar et al>. Of : course I haven't seen the latest version of it. The colour of windows, icons, menus and pointers is hardly a good measure of a GUI - especially since even the most basic will allow these things to be altered somehow. Responsiveness and ease of use are the best measures. If you want to take a wider look, then you need to include the software which uses the GUI. This last reason is why Windows is successful - you can't say it's responsive or easy to use! Acorn is near the top for responsiveness and ease of use, but fails dismally on the software front (except for a few world-class packages). : <Look at pictures on web> It looks okay, but nothing special. : <awaits flames from hundreds of Acorn users> Of course it looks better You'd be lucky? There aren't that many of us left ;-) Nigel -- Girton College, Cambridge, England, CB3 0JG. Tel: 0411 384803 http://welcome.to/nigels nigel.parker@iee.org
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <6s06pi$11ic$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 26 Aug 1998 14:24:22 +0200 Message-ID: <86emu4orrd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * E. Gkioulekas | fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: | | >In article <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, | >Albert D. Cahalan <acahalan@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> wrote: | >>The BSD code used by Apple will never be available to the public. | >>Flaws in the BSD license let Apple make the code proprietary. | | >I probably shouldn't say anything, especially considering who I an | >replying to, but... Why is this a flaw? Arguably, Mac hardware | | It is a flaw if you value _freedom_, a concept which is explained in | sufficient detailed in the GNU philosophy pages | (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy). | If you make value judgements using different criteria, you will | reach different conclusions. That's all there is to it. It makes value judgements based on some idea of an end-users' freedom being more important than the freedom of a developer. It is based on taking freedom away to hinder the "terrible" case of a user voluntarily purchasing software which he can't re-distribute because he wants features that has been developed to make him purchase. (See the catch-22?) The GPL can make sense in some cases where you as a commercial entity want to release some code, but want to make sure your competitors don't just use your code to bootstrap themselves without giving you the changes back. However, it often make more sense to do this by releasing a version that doesn't include all your tuning for your specific application - this tuning is often of less general interest, anyway. If what I want to do with my code is give it as a gift to the community, I would never use the GPL - I don't like giving away booby-trapped gifts, like my grandmother offered me chocolate if I went to church... Eivind.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: qed@apexmail.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:45:30 +0930 Message-ID: <1deg90p.vasm5o5czw1oN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <35E457A5.3668AAD@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> <edgar-ya02408000R2708980944160001@news.math.ohio-state.edu> Organization: Quantum Education Developments G. A. Edgar <edgar@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote: > It would be interesting to get some of the old put-downs from the PC > magazines when the Macintosh was introduced. You know, about how "real" > computer users don't need mouses. In the early days - just after Windows was made available to run on our brand-new DeskPro 286's - graphical interfaces were often referred to as WIMP interfaces. Apparently, it stood for Windows, Icons, Mice and Pull-down menus. Gack! Geoffrey (who wrote his own text-y mouse driver for his Apple //e after seeing a Lisa in action) -- ------------------------qed-@-apexmail.com------------------------ -- What I say may - or may not be - the truth. "I think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise."
From: p@znet.de (Pascal Gienger) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> <m2af4q4nr1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <%HjX51Q1W3@draugen.kvaleberg.no> Message-ID: <slrn6ub4is.600.p@magnus.paul-magazin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:07:41 +0200 Organization: University of Constance, Germany In article <%HjX51Q1W3@draugen.kvaleberg.no>, Egil Kvaleberg wrote: >default. I'm not sure if ever any PC were delivered without one, but all >PCs (not XTs I think) had a built in port for data storage on an audio >cassette player. They also had a ROM Basic. And you can still see evidences of it: Disconnect all hard drives and floppy drives and/or disconnect your IDE or SCSI adapter card and try to boot. On many BIOSes you will see "NO ROM BASIC" (because the Rom Basic was never copied nor recoded). You were only able to use this Basic with a cassette drive. In Germany it was marketed as "Kassetten-BASIC" ("cassette basic"). When you purchased a 5 1/4"-Disk drive (for about 3000 Marks) you got the "Disketten-BASIC" which was an early DOS with some sort of extended basic (I think "basica.com" was the command). It just filled up the 64 Kilobyte(!) of main storage so you could not do something interesting with it without buying the expensive "64k expansion" for your PC (resulting in 128 Kilobytes of RAM). F'up to alt.folklore.computer? ;-) Pascal -- _ _ | Pascal Gienger |_> <_\ |_||_ - magazin für konstanz pg@paul-magazin.de (Redaktion) | Termine, Dates, Kontakte, ... p@znet.de (privat) http://www.paul-magazin.de/ Tel. 07531/52709 Fax 07531/52739
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 17:38:15 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> wrote: > While I disagree with the GPL on moral grounds (I don't believe > in intellectual property, which the GPL still kinds of relies I disagree with them on moral grounds too, but I certainly do believe in IP, and if you're honest you do too. Otherwise I would guess you'd have no problem with someone taking your name, social security number, and identity and going around and using it. That is a very basic and personal form of IP, an identity, your trade name, so to speak. > on, in a not-wanting-to-do-it kind of way), I still feel obliged > to point out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be > failing in practice. Note that GNU software is everywhere, having > a place in probably close to all Unix systems and a large number > of other architectures. If your argument is against the BSD > license as well, which it seems that it would be (as it would > seem to be by your advocacy of making things truly free), then > it would be important to mention that the BSD camp has enjoyed > similar success to the GNU project. While I don't think that the > BSD and GNU licenses are quite perfect, they certainly give me > a lot more freedom than I would have with most commercial licenses. > Finally, the GNU project doesn't make you give things back. People > who don't contribute to the GNU project arn't hunted down by > snipers :) Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that freedom. So it fails at the big things in life. Easing people's toil and chores in the corporate world. A lot of people could benefit from that code, but may not use it because of the license. With MiscKit no such communist problem exists. Don't get me wrong, I think tons of very cool people did very cool and good things at GNU. I just think the philosphy and license are dumb ass. It's not to say that for some GNU isn't a fine solution; i.e. when you're just setting out to do a little app that you never expect or care about making money on. Unlike the moron that wrote the gnu philosphy, the rest of the world who does coding believes they *do* need to make a living at programming and be compensated at least enough to put bread on the table for their children. It's *not* an honor or priveledge to do 50 hours of grog cobol coding every week, it's a job, and deserves pay. As always, YMMV. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Nick Boalch <nick@greenbeak.REMOVE.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:27:36 +0100 Organization: Me, but does not necessarily reflect my views Message-ID: <ant271736bc8fksm@greenbeak.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Graham Briggs <URL:mailto:gb226@cam.ac.uk> wrote: [snip] > <awaits flames from hundreds of Acorn users> Of course it looks better Flames? Nah. We'll just laugh at you in 2000 when your computer dies and ours just keep on working fine... ;) Cheers, Nick -- !nick boalch nick at greenbeak dot demon dot co dot uk "Well, now," said Sergeant Colon, consulting his notebook, "so far we have cause of death as a) being beaten with at least one blunt instrument b) being strangled with a string of sausages and c) being savaged by at least two animals with big sharp teeth. What do we do now, Nobby?"
From: Peter Smith <polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:57:38 +0100 Organization: None! Sender: Peter Smith <polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> Message-ID: <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> In message <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> art@kether.broomstick.com (Arthur Hagen) wrote: > > In article <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, > ashwin.bihari@cant.spam.me writes: > > On 26 Aug 1998 13:51:57 GMT, <Frampton Steve R> wrote: > > > > > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > > > creation. :^) > > > > Atleast he WISHES he had! :) Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but > > didn't feel it was going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it > > over and put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and > > the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows for the > > DOS platform..or the story goes something like that..Regard > > The Apple Lisa was early, yes, but before that OS-9 for the Dragon 64 > (called Tandy in the US) had a working multiuser GUI. With Commodore 128 > you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. Windows was one of the LAST GUIs to > arrive, well after the three A's (Amiga, Atari and Apple). <spanish inquisition> 3 A's (Amiga, Atari and Apple). And Acorn. 4 As - Amiga, Atari and Apple. <spanish> Peter -- To reply by mail, change .com to .co in my email address 54 things to do in a lift.... 36. Say "Ding!" at each floor.
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 10:50:45 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: >No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, shortsighted, dweeb, penny >wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk inspired, fungus, insipid mentality borne >out by shmo's who think they are entitled free stuff. This is an entertaining rant, but your next sentences contradict it. >If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give you something >only if you promise to give something back. I see. *You* think that you are entitled to free stuff, and this is your true objection to the GPL. You want *others* to release unencumbered code so that you are not limited if you decide to use it without reciprocating. You want others to give unconditionally so that you don't have to give anything at all. Now, I respect people who put out their code without a copyleft (e.g. BSD, Tcl/Tk etc), but to demand it is inappropriate. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <wsn7lzvgxcz.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <87n28rvc1b.fsf@ivm.de> <lub4suzmr70.fsf@sundance.stacken.kth.se> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:02:52 GMT Artur Grabowski <art@stacken.kth.se> writes: > > Are you aware of that you have _insulted_ a lot of people reading your > post? > If you take Klaus Schilling seriously enough to be insulted, you deserve to be insulted. :-) Ignore the guy. As Joe Buck just said: either a lunatic, a troll, or an AI. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 19:02:53 GMT Organization: FNX Ltd, Intelligent Risk Management Message-ID: <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) wrote on MDCCCXXI September MCMXCIII in <URL: news:863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>: ++ * abigail@fnx.com ++ | Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) wrote on MDCCCXXI September MCMXCIII in ++ | <URL: news:86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>: ++ | ++ ++ | ++ Without BSD-license, there would have been no TCP/IP. Given the ++ | ++ TCP/IP experience, it seems clearly the positives exceed the ++ | ++ negatives. ++ | ++ | That is of course bullshit. If it wasn't written by BSD, someone else ++ | would have written it. Just like Linux. Or X. Or gcc. ++ ++ Know your history before accusing somebody of 'of course bullshit'. ++ ++ TCP/IP was successfull for a large part because it had a reference ++ implementation that people were free to use as they wanted. This ++ resulted in a lot of systems vendors including TCP/IP in addition to ++ their own properitary protocols; now, TCP/IP suddenly let systems from ++ different vendors talk to each other... And without the BSD license noone would ever think about the idea of having computers of different vendors talk to each other? Rrrrrrrreally? Abigail
Sender: klaus@debian Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> From: Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:39:02 +0200 Message-ID: <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> Organization: IVM GmbH John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> wrote: > > While I disagree with the GPL on moral grounds (I don't believe > > in intellectual property, which the GPL still kinds of relies > > I disagree with them on moral grounds too, but I certainly do believe in IP, > and if you're honest you do too. Otherwise I would guess you'd have no > problem with someone taking your name, social security number, and identity > and going around and using it. That is a very basic and personal form of IP, > an identity, your trade name, so to speak. > No, I do not need a fscking name and a dirty security number and what else those materialistic bastards assigned to me. O que e precis um nom? Sou eu no meu sepulcro! as already F. Pessoa said. > > > on, in a not-wanting-to-do-it kind of way), I still feel obliged > > to point out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be > > failing in practice. Note that GNU software is everywhere, having > > a place in probably close to all Unix systems and a large number > > of other architectures. If your argument is against the BSD > > license as well, which it seems that it would be (as it would > > seem to be by your advocacy of making things truly free), then > > it would be important to mention that the BSD camp has enjoyed > > similar success to the GNU project. While I don't think that the > > BSD and GNU licenses are quite perfect, they certainly give me > > a lot more freedom than I would have with most commercial licenses. > > Finally, the GNU project doesn't make you give things back. People > > who don't contribute to the GNU project arn't hunted down by > > snipers :) > The GNU GPL is already perfect. > Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that freedom. So it > fails at the big things in life. Easing people's toil and chores in the > corporate world. A lot of people could benefit from that code, but may not > use it because of the license. With MiscKit no such communist problem > exists. Those commercial entities are deprecable, especially Oracle and Corel. Mi$ckit is the work of $atan. The GNU way is the only moral way to deal with intellectual goods. > > Don't get me wrong, I think tons of very cool people did very cool and good > things at GNU. I just think the philosphy and license are dumb ass. It's > not to say that for some GNU isn't a fine solution; i.e. when you're just > setting out to do a little app that you never expect or care about making > money on. Unlike the moron that wrote the gnu philosphy, the rest of the > world who does coding believes they *do* need to make a living at programmin > and be compensated at least enough to put bread on the table for their > children. It's *not* an honor or priveledge to do 50 hours of grog cobol > coding every week, it's a job, and deserves pay. > > The gnu license and manifesto was written by a genius. Morons are those like Fantome and Cox who sympathize with copyright holders of proprietary software. Only materiali$tic, immoral scums can follow Kheit's way of thinking. Platonists, Neopythagoreans and other supreme people don't. Klaus Schilling
From: Sam Smith <SamS@techie.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:01:30 +0100 (BST) Organization: Enterprise PLC - Internet Services Message-ID: <ant271930209Qk=L@samsmith.enterprise.net> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 In article <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu>, Ashwin Bihari <URL:mailto:ashwin.bihari@cant.spam.me> wrote: > > On 26 Aug 1998 13:51:57 GMT, <Frampton Steve R> wrote: > > In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: > > : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the > > : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can > > : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. > > > > Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 > > creation. :^) > > Atleast he WISHES he had! :) He believes he did - the fact that he is wrong is irrelevant to him > Xerox actaully created the first GUI, but didn't feel it was > going to catch on, then Steve Jobs of Apple took it over and > put it into the Apple's..followed by the success of the Mac and > the GUI for the Apple machines, Billy Boy came out with Windows > for the DOS platform..or the story goes something like > that..Regard Not quite. Steve Jobs visited Xerox Parc (where Alto was developed), and saw the GUI working. Apple already had a GUI project running, and seeing the Alto reaffirmed what he saw, and that became the Mac and Lisa. MS helped develop the GUI for the Mac/Lisa (I think it was the Mac only, but someone will confirm), and learnt (bad word??) what Mickeyshaft needed to know to write Windoze. An agreement to use Mac OS features in Windoze was agreed upon which later landed both companies in court. M$ won. The rest, as they say, isn't to be typed by me. At least, not now. Sam Smith mailto:SamS@techie.com http://sams.base.org Friends Spoiler List - mailto:FriendsSpoil@mindless.com -- 29 ways to decline a date : 10: I'd love to go out with you, but I'm attending the opening of my garage door.
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 27 Aug 1998 22:00:53 +0200 Message-ID: <86u32ynqiy.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * abigail@fnx.com | Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) wrote on MDCCCXXI September MCMXCIII in | <URL: news:863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>: | ++ * abigail@fnx.com | ++ | Eivind Eklund (eivind@yes.no) wrote on MDCCCXXI September MCMXCIII in | ++ | <URL: news:86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>: | ++ | ++ | ++ | ++ Without BSD-license, there would have been no TCP/IP. Given the | ++ | ++ TCP/IP experience, it seems clearly the positives exceed the | ++ | ++ negatives. | ++ | | ++ | That is of course bullshit. If it wasn't written by BSD, someone else | ++ | would have written it. Just like Linux. Or X. Or gcc. | ++ | ++ Know your history before accusing somebody of 'of course bullshit'. | ++ | ++ TCP/IP was successfull for a large part because it had a reference | ++ implementation that people were free to use as they wanted. This | ++ resulted in a lot of systems vendors including TCP/IP in addition to | ++ their own properitary protocols; now, TCP/IP suddenly let systems from | ++ different vendors talk to each other... | | And without the BSD license noone would ever think about the idea of | having computers of different vendors talk to each other? Rrrrrrrreally? Without a BSD-style license (that is, an actual free license) it is unlikely it would be TCP/IP. Also, it is likely we would have a fragmented world, with one vendor's networking ruling supreme. Possibly IPX - Novell tried to force this even after TCP/IP ruled supreme. And without a free license, it would have taken a lot longer before we had anything approaching the present Internet. Can you imagine if X.25 had kept being the largest protocol and network, instead of the way it worked out with TCP/IP? Eivind.
From: Artemis@soon.to.be(Art) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:19:05 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> In article <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net>, pgunn01@ibm.net says... > I still feel obliged to point > out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be failing > in practice. Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a GPLer. We've made it a grounds for dismissal. Art
From: "Jeff Johnson" <jajohnson@dmenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:55:49 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:57:23 GMT Graham Briggs wrote in message ... >On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Paul Vigay wrote: >All GUI's have their merits and downfalls. Some look ugly but are >responsive, some look nice and aren't responsive, some look ugly and are >unresponsive (Windows) some look lovely but you need to install several >new libraries to use them (MUI for Amiga, KDE for Linux etc). Probably shouldn't say this in the Mac newsgroup, but I have always thought the Mac OS was one of the ugliest simply because of its two-dimensional look. The Mac's ridiculous oval for a button which inverts was horrid! At least Windows introduced 3D pushbuttons in 3.0, follow by all 3D stuff in 95. I have to give Apple credit for finally fixing it in OS8, though. It's finally looking pretty slick. (Did you hear me, Mac fanatics? I said I think it looks nice now. Put away the flame throwers....) All GUI's evolve over time. Compare Windows 3.1's Control Panel icon with that in 3.0. A definite improvement. Compare Win95's folder icon with that in 3.1's File Manager. And OS/2's icons used some of the ugliest colors an boring designs ever. I think some of this was cleaned up in Warp 3 and 4. And lest ye think that I believe Windows is the be-all and end-all of GUI's, I will gladly stand up and say that NeXTstep has the most incredible icons out there. Since Rhapsody is based on NeXT, Mac OS X could very well end up being one of the best looking OS's out there.
From: "Jeff Johnson" <jajohnson@dmenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:57:19 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6s4had$89i$1@news5.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <6s2pie$7qg$1@news12.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:58:53 GMT Jeff Johnson wrote in message <6s2pie$7qg$1@news12.ispnews.com>... > >Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote in message >Bill Gates >invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 >>creation. :^) > >Good lord, didn't ANYBODY realize you were making a joke? Sheesh! Damn news server! I swear I only posted this once!
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 16:56:43 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5btp6kut0.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:56:44 GMT %% Artemis@soon.to.be(Art) writes: a> In article <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net>, pgunn01@ibm.net says... >> I still feel obliged to point out that the GNU project certainly >> doesn't seem to be failing in practice. a> Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a a> GPLer. We've made it a grounds for dismissal. Please. You're firing people for their political beliefs? Isn't that illegal? Even if it isn't, who'd want to work for such a bunch of weenies anyway, even those of us who do think the GPL is a lot of hooey? Bottom line: don't come to me expecting to hire me if you are a fascist Big Brother employer who attempts to restrict my non-work activities, and are so completely narrow-minded you can't accept your employees using tools which makes them more productive because of your irrational fears. I've made it grounds for dismissal, with prejudice, of your offer. Haven't you heard? It's an employee's market. It's sad for you that you have rejected some of the best programming talent in the world, sight unseen, but hey... they don't need you, so no big deal. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
Sender: klaus@debian Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> From: Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> Date: 27 Aug 1998 22:29:06 +0200 Message-ID: <87k93urwx9.fsf@ivm.de> Organization: IVM GmbH Artemis@soon.to.be(Art) writes: > In article <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net>, pgunn01@ibm.net says... > > I still feel obliged to point > > out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be failing > > in practice. > > Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a GPLer. > We've made it a grounds for dismissal. Evil companies like yours don't deserve decent people working for 'em. Klaus Schilling
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 23:30:10 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2u32yf6zh.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 21:30:13 GMT John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that > freedom. So it fails at the big things in life. Easing people's > toil and chores in the corporate world. A lot of people could > benefit from that code, but may not use it because of the license. They may use it in whatever way they want. They may just not sell it in more restricted ways than it was given to them. The GPL was not designed to be "easing people's toils and chores in the corporate world" by letting the people sell restricted copies of GPL stuff without contributing back to what has started out as a community effort. > With MiscKit no such communist problem exists. > Don't get me wrong, I think tons of very cool people did very cool > and good things at GNU. I just think the philosphy and license are > dumb ass. It's not to say that for some GNU isn't a fine solution; > i.e. when you're just setting out to do a little app that you never > expect or care about making money on. Unlike the moron that wrote > the gnu philosphy, the rest of the world who does coding believes > they *do* need to make a living at programming and be compensated at > least enough to put bread on the table for their children. The moron that wrote the GNU philosophy has achieved a large body of readily available software to the community and has thus spared a lot of people a lot of unnecessary expenses and duplication of effort. > It's *not* an honor or priveledge to do 50 hours of grog cobol > coding every week, it's a job, and deserves pay. If you are doing 50 hours of grog cobol coding every week, chances are that you are doing this for a very specific application. This would not happen to be floating around as ready GNU software, so people would have to pay for doing the work regardless of how it turned out to be licensed afterwards. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: remote-printer.a_b/c@310402930104.iddd.tpc.int (Glasvezel.Net Helpdesk) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:46:24 GMT Organization: Glasvezel en Koper B.V. Message-ID: <6s4k3g$1f0_084@news.wirehub.nl> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> <6s4f1o$54l$2@justus.ecc.lu> In article <6s4f1o$54l$2@justus.ecc.lu>, Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels) wrote: >In article <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net>, > abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes: >> >> And without the BSD license noone would ever think about the idea of >> having computers of different vendors talk to each other? Rrrrrrrreally? >We might have had OSI (shudder) ;-) SNA ? :) -- Glasvezel.Net - Internet met de snelheid van het licht http://www.glasvezel.net/ - soon in your town too
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:38:19 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 13:38:20 GMT fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > ``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to > work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people > investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some > credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply > fair. We are not talking about "some credit and/or money" here. We are talking about *all* of the credit/money here. > If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the > details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. Byzantine? Strange accusation. The GPL prohibits distributing derived versions while giving less rights to the recipient than you received with the original version. You may charge any amount you want, but what you hand on must be GPLed and thus might be freely further distributed. It is fair in the respect that you got exactly the same rights with the original software. Writing that original software took a huge amount of work. The people investing their time and money on a huge effort have a right to demand that you do not hold back more rights to a derived version of the software than they did with the original. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 15:26:51 -0700 Organization: Client of Internet Portal Services Message-ID: <6s4mfb$14f@ascetic.portal.ca> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbc9ed.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> In article <m390kbc9ed.fsf@sparky.gnus.org>, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: >I find it fascinating to know how impossible GPL'd software is, >especially since virtually the entire operating system I'm now typing >this under is GPL'd software, the main exception being XFree86 and >TeX. So you use a less free operating system than I do. Big deal. I don't mind contributing to GPL'd software at all, but the GPL does often get in the way of working on software that is more free. I've had to write code for a program from scratch rather than pull in GPL'd code that could do the job, simply because I didn't want to contaminate ten thousand lines of source with a hundred lines of GPL'd code. That was time that I didn't spend contributing something new to the free software community. cjs -- Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 1998 22:45:23 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) wrote: > John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: > >No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, shortsighted, > >dweeb, penny wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk inspired, fungus, > >insipid mentality borne out by shmo's who think they are entitled > >free stuff. > > This is an entertaining rant, but your next sentences contradict > it. Thank you, and no they don't. Unless you're trying not to understand. > >If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give > >you something only if you promise to give something back. > > I see. *You* think that you are entitled to free stuff, and this Nope, I don't. > is your true objection to the GPL. You want *others* to release No, my true objection is to that philosphy that genuinly extols that the prick that wrote it, and those that subscribe to it, believe that programmers should just do the work for the love of it. That it's a priveledge and fun to do and they really shouldn't be compensated. That entire philosphy is idiotic to impressive extent. What further pisses me off is the hypocracy with GNU people in that they claim stuff is free, but it's not, it's got some serious strings attatch as you note below, yet they want credit for actually giving stuff away for free when it comes with a sizable whammy incumbrance. > unencumbered code so that you are not limited if you decide to > use it without reciprocating. You want others to give unconditionally > so that you don't have to give anything at all. I believe the only true gifts are those that don't require reciprocation. All other things are consideration. The misckit makes true gifts to the world, the GNU license does not. I feel people are free to charge if they want and do deserve fair compensaiton for such work. If people want to give stuff away with an encumbrance that you can only use it for X purposes, that's fine too. I think that the most magnanamous people are those that release things with no strings attatched. True PD. What pisses me off is that the GNU idiocy would have you believe they are in the latter catagory when they are far from it. They take consideration for your access and use of their code. And it's that hypocritical attitude that pisses me off to no end; i.e. it's ok for them to require consideration from the rest of the world, but they deem that programmers really don't need to be compensated for thier work. That's a flying sack of dung filled hypocracy and why the entire GNU license is shit, and the people that back it are hypocrites. In my opinion. > Now, I respect people who put out their code without a copyleft > (e.g. BSD, Tcl/Tk etc), but to demand it is inappropriate. -- I respect people that do as well. Again, the above has little or nothing to do with the fact that many if not most people that contribute to GNU ware have done great work and given of themselves and great products have been made. They just have not given them up freely or entirely, it's all with the proviso of consideration. Which is fine and dandy. Nothing wrong with that. But it's not freely given, and trying to make others believe otherwise is a load. IMO, YMMV. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 16:26:10 -0700 Organization: Client of Internet Portal Services Message-ID: <6s4pui$5ls@ascetic.portal.ca> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> In article <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk>, Mark Wooding <mdw@ebi.ac.uk> wrote: >I happen to agree with rms that restrictive licences are immoral.... Last I checked, the GPL was a restrictive license. It places more restrictions on you than a BSD licence (especially if section 3 is removed, which is getting more popular), and without question is more restrictive than putting your code in the public domain. cjs -- Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
From: "Staffing" <NOSPAM_info@objectsoft.com> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Wanted: NextStep OpenStep developers in Chicago Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:14:54 -0500 Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Message-ID: <6s4pe4$70a$1@supernews.com> We have an immediate opening for two developers to port software from NextStep to OpenStep in Chicago. Excellent opportunity. Consultants are welcome to apply. Email your resume to: next@objectsoft.com
From: kskeithley@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:54:47 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6s1437$6au$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> In article <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> wrote: > fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > > > > >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from > > >commercial abuse. > > At least it tries to, and that's what counts. Contributors always have the rights to their own code. > > > > ``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to > > work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people > > investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some > > credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply > > fair. If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the > > details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. > > No, the GNU GPL is the most fair possible license. Fair for whom? > And the mentioned company > is a mean capitalist and intellectual proprietarist, thus doesn't deserve any > respect for its continued blasphemy. Blasphemy? You make this sound like a religious debate? Followups-To: set to soc.religion.gpl -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 17:29:58 -0700 Organization: Client of Internet Portal Services Message-ID: <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> In article <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >The GPL prohibits distributing >derived versions while giving less rights to the recipient than you >received with the original version. Right. However, the GPL goes far beyond derived versions. If I include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line program I wrote, I have to give away the entire ten thousand lines of source code. Does that seem fair to you? cjs -- Curt Sampson cjs@portal.ca Info at http://www.portal.ca/ Internet Portal Services, Inc. Through infinite mist, software reverberates Vancouver, BC (604) 257-9400 In code possess'd of invisible folly.
From: "Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:55:32 +1000 Organization: OzEmail Ltd. Message-ID: <6s4v9a$n8$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote in message ... >"Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> writes: > >> So in my words - both GPL and the BSD licenses are giving gifts. >> GPL says that you can do what you would like, but don't sell my gift. >> BSD says that if we are really giving a gift, the receiver can >> do whatever they want with it - including sell it. > >No, this is wrong. You can sell GPL'd software freely. The same with >BSD software. The main difference is that with the GPL you also have >to supply the source code, and you also have to allow all your buyers >to create derivative works and sell them, etc. Thanks for the correction.
From: "Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:02:18 +1000 Organization: OzEmail Ltd. Message-ID: <6s4vls$1cu$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> Mark Wooding wrote in message ... >Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >> In the case where they would have released it in binary form >> only, you would have had a pretty much neutral result, possibly >> considered slightly positive by having driven the state of the art. > >No. Here I'd lose, because I'd have helped a company make money out of >Hoarding software, and I did most of the work for them. I wouldn't be >even slightly happy about that. Doesn't it come down to straight capitalism here? I mean - if a company can give a little effort for a big reward, then they're pretty happy. But another company could spend exactly the same "little effort" and take the first companies profits away. Capitalism ends up pushing the costs down to what it really costs to make. In theory that is.... Of course.... we're not really discussing whether capitalism works. Greg
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <EyB8yM.Lqq@T-FCN.Net> Sender: news@T-FCN.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: steinarh@stud.fim.ntnu.no Organization: none References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <EyAytL.E67@T-FCN.Net> <cn290kbvgon.fsf@demokrit.fim.ntnu.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:03:57 GMT In <cn290kbvgon.fsf@demokrit.fim.ntnu.no> Steinar Hamre wrote: > It's only a name-change. The OSF^H^H^HDigital Unix' uname stll says > "OSF1". Thanks! Maury
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <EyB93x.Lvw@T-FCN.Net> Sender: news@T-FCN.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Organization: none References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:07:07 GMT In <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> David Kastrup wrote: > Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free > building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. They did? We had several at U, I don't remember either of these. Maury
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 01:53:22 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6s52ii$fqb@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2btp82kof.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <m2btp82kof.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >> Given my employer's requirements, I probably can't use a free >> Unix-like OS (e.g. Linux). >Then get a commercial Unix with vendor support, like Official RedHat >Linux, or Caldera OpenLinux, or S.u.S.E Linux, or something in that >line. I'm afraid commercial support my problem. Basically, my system administrators prefer an operating system they already have experience with, and prefer to cross-mount most of the software to minimize their work load. That means I would have to fight with them to use _any_ new operating system (i.e. new to our institution.) I don't like that, and I plan to fight about cross-mounting. (My current workstation becomes disfunctional all to often due to network problems or someone else's machine going down.) Asking then to support Linux on a bunch of Alphas in a Beowulf cluster would just be another thing to fight with them about, and the benefits don't justify it in my opinion. Note also that I, as the principal user, don't get root access either. That's a real pain because there are lots of problems I could fix in a few minutes if I had root access, but which only get fixed when and if my system administrators find the time to deal with it. Overall, I've got enough things to fight with them about, just to get a functional machine, without the added trouble of being picky about the operating system: They will support DEC Unix without complaint, and that's better than Windows NT... >...And if you want to get an operating system where the vendor >will stand up for his product and take responsibility, I recommend you >read the fine print on your Windows NT license agreement. Well, that would be tough: I don't use any Windows operating system (I avoid them like the plague), so I don't have a copy of the NT licensing agreement. Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc.MAPS.SPAM@ne.mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:02:43 -0400 Organization: MCB, Inc. Message-ID: <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > What the copyright notice says is immaterial. Anyone who creates > intellectual property autimatically has the copyright to what they > have created. The only way to lose that right is to explicitly sign > it over, which is something that most people do not do. What a particularly bizarre interpretation of copyright law. This is only now true of a published work created *ab nihil*. To add code to an existing work creates a derived work; copyright to the derived work is held by the original creator. > > So contributing 100 lines (under the GPL) to some project does in no > way make it difficult to later take those 100 lines and release it in > propriatary software. If the first expression of that 100 lines of code is in the derived work, you have no rights to them. You retain rights to them only if they were previously published in a work to which you help copyright. To extract those 100 lines from the derived, encumbered work either: 1. The copyright holder must license or authorize your use of the code, or 2. The copyright expires under law or placing the work in the public domain, or 3. The code extracted and its use falls under 'fair use' doctrine. -- Monty Brandenberg, Software Consultant MCB, Inc. mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM P.O. Box 426188 mcbinc@world.std.com.MAPS.SPAM Cambridge, MA 02142 617.864.6907
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 02:29:49 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6s54mt$h2s@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <slrn6u8bpa.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <slrn6u8bpa.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk>, Mark Wooding <mdw@ebi.ac.uk> wrote: >> But let's face it: Even if I use FreeBSD or Linux on a PC, I >> end up paying Microsoft some money. (My employer gets educational >> discounts from Gateway, and that deal makes it hard for me to buy a >> PC from other sources. So I get Win98 with the machine and have >> to pay for it, even though I'm going to wipe the hard drive and >> install a reasonable operating system.) >I'm using Linux on a PC at home, and I certainly didn't buy a licence >for any operating system, Microsoft or otherwise, when I bought it. >Admittedly, I bought the machine as individual parts and assembled them >on the living room carpet... For my machine at home, I did basically the same thing. (Well, I used a table rather than my carpet...) But note that I mentioned my employer: I was talking about the machines I use at work. That causes two problems. One, I am a research associate at the University of Colorado. I do planetary plasma physics for a living, not computer installation and system administration. (FreeBSD system administration is a hobby, not what I get paid for...) I would have a very hard time ordering parts and putting them together myself. I'd have to explain why I was spending my time on that, rather than having our so-called system administrator do it. Two, CU gets an educational discount from Gateway. If I want to buy a PC from someone else (or in pieces) I would have to explain why that is necessary, or why it would provide a significant reduction in cost. Given the Gateway educational discount, that would be difficult. So, for the machines I use at work, what you suggest is simply not an option. >Building PCs from parts is easy, it's (slightly) cheaper than buying >complete boxes... That slightly is canceled out by the discounts Gateway offers to my employer. >...and it gives you much better control over the hardware >bits, which tends to be the main problem with free operating systems. And that would be a _very_ hard sell for me. I'd have to convince people who know little about computers that better control over the hardware was a significant improvement, and/or why I needed to use a free OS. Once I explained that free OSs have some problems with hardware support, I'd have to waste even more time explaining why Windows NT just doesn't satisfy my needs. I doubt I could convince the responsible people (say again, they don't know much about computers) and I have better things to spend my time on. That means that, if I buy a PC for use at work, Bill Gates gets some of the money. I don't like that, and no one asked me to like it, but that's how it works. Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Morgan) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 22:49:05 GMT Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA Message-ID: <6s23d1$3k3$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> In article <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net>, Tony <anthonNO-SPAMp9@mail.idt.net> wrote: >Seesh! All the intricate discussions of a basic pattern. Why can't >everyone just accept the GPL as the pyramid scheme it is and move on? The complete lack of resemblence to a pyramid scheme might have something to do with it. Alan
Sender: vroonhof@bolzano.math.ethz.ch Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> From: Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof@frege.math.ethz.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: 26 Aug 1998 17:19:48 +0200 Message-ID: <by4suzpy7e.fsf@bolzano.math.ethz.ch> Organization: ETHZ Mathematik Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > question of somebody electing to do something _additional_ because > they can get a pay-back on that incremental change. People are both > relinquishing their opportunity to have and distribute source and > paying actual money _because they get larger benefits then costs from > having that incremental change_. > > GPL denies the users that opportunity No it doesn't. The users that get larger benefits then costs from having a certain change can still pay for it to be done. However since it disallows hoarding it makes it difficult to use the traditional method of sharing that cost over multiple users/customers. (author puts up an investment upfront and then sells the product to each customer individually for a fraction of that). Therefore one expects the costs above to be higher. Suprisingly some products seem to be doing well using this method even though they are GPL. Jan
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <wsn67fdu5yb.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <6s4pui$5ls@ascetic.portal.ca> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 03:43:24 GMT cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: > > Last I checked, the GPL was a restrictive license. It places more > restrictions on you than a BSD licence (especially if section 3 is > removed, which is getting more popular), and without question is > more restrictive than putting your code in the public domain. > Can we not start this moronic line of argument again? It makes no sense to talk about "restrictive" along a single dimension. Is the GPL more restrictive than the NPL? How do you answer this question? "The GPL has 10 more restrictometrics per line of text." "The GPL has more lines in it." "The Windows license has more clauses than the Oracle license." What the hell is that supposed to even mean? Who cares? Clearly the important thing is what the restrictions *do* - require credit, require redistribution under the same terms, require a dongle, require a license for each user, whatever. Let's talk about that. I for one have no moral standards about number of restrictions (Eleventh Commandment: Though shalt not have more than 37 restrictions in a single license.) I don't have any practical standards either; a single restriction could be "you can't use this code for any purpose" or "you must send me a postcard," and a dozen restrictions could all be innocuous. Saying "license X is more restrictive" is either a meaningless truism or an evasive way of saying "license X has restrictions I don't like." Sorry, fed up with this thread. I don't know who the hell was bright enough to do the "gee, why don't I cross post a license issue to all the BSD groups and gnu.misc.discuss" thing again. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc.MAPS.SPAM@ne.mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:02:19 -0400 Organization: MCB, Inc. Message-ID: <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the reasons why this debate is deprecated in the FAQs and is so tedious to experience is the strident exchanges on a subject that the participants can't even define: What is 'Free' software and how can this quality be measured to compare software offerings? I've been pondering this since software started to be marketed as 'free' and rms plagiarized gosling's emacs. And now, I have a proposal. Perhaps, properly quantified, it could even be submitted to SPEC and we'd have a SPECopen99 number with which to beat the godless infidels. Software Freedom: A measure of total work, i.e. path integral of applied force, needed to develop a software system, market and supply it to the intended consumer base, and maintain, repair, and upgrade as appropriate. Litigation, successful or otherwise, is treated as a high-force event and singularities such as using software totally unsuited to the task are rated as infinite work. If in a competitive market, don't decrease your competitions work at your own expense. Less is more in the rankings. How might this be applied in the GPL vs BSD/MIT/CMU debate? Here's one try: Step 1. Develop a software system. Acquire code base, hire programmers, gather requirments, design, implement. GPL vs BSD: About the same. Code base available. APIs similar or compatible, without going into the corollary debate as to what constitutes a Unix standard. Development tools nearly identical. Reliability of code base varies but won't discuss that here. Step 2. Market and supply system to the customer. GPL vs BSD: No difference. To the small extent that these even affect this step, both works are encumbered and require notice of ancestry. Step 3. Maintain, repair, and upgrade. GPL vs BSD: No difference. A flavor of the development cycle with a different focus and pace. Step 4. Avoid litigation. In the case at hand, the interesting aspect is meeting the license terms of the code base. BSD: Notice required. Source of derived work need not be provided on demand. Trade secrets are retained. GPL: Notice required. Source of derived work must be supplied to all who request it. Trade secrets revealed. Step 5. Do not transfer work from competitors to yourself. BSD: Look & Feel and documented data formats will be available to the competition. User documentation serves as a functional specification to imitators. GPL: BSD work plus a reference implementation is delivered to the competition. While trying to amortize Step 1 costs in Step 2, you've simultaneously reduced their Step 1 costs drastically. Conclusions. 1. Under this proposed SPECopen99 benchmark, GPL and BSD software flavors would be closely matched if not for Step 5. There are many areas of software development where the work differential due to this step would be small or irrelevant. Cloning, work-alikes, and evolution-not-revolution coding are examples that fall into this category. So, under this freeness definition: Work.gpl > Work.bsd for competitive software Work.gpl ~ Work.bsd for fungibile software 2. On Innovation. This aspect isn't a part of the above metric but it is important to both developers and users. To developers as it provides differentiation to boost margins, sales, and awareness and to users for the utility it offers. In one area I work, supporting 3D graphics devices, the GPL license is a perfect prophylactic barrier against a product. Getting the very best out of hardware involves trade secrets that aren't in the textbooks and won't be found on vendors' pages. And if not for the MIT license on X11, this market, and the utility of the products offered in the market, wouldn't even exist except as a completely fragmented market as we had pre-X11. And that will continue until the devices become commodity items, the APIs and extensions have ossified, and the trade secrets have been revealed or recreated. These things *will* all happen but not on the innovation-side of the development curve. -- Monty Brandenberg, Software Consultant MCB, Inc. mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM P.O. Box 426188 mcbinc@world.std.com.MAPS.SPAM Cambridge, MA 02142 617.864.6907
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <wsn4suxu4it.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:14:18 GMT cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: > > Right. However, the GPL goes far beyond derived versions. If I > include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line > program I wrote, I have to give away the entire ten thousand lines > of source code. Does that seem fair to you? > That's the fault of copyright law, not the GPL. The GPL does not define "Derived Work." The GPL could possibly have some kind of arbitrary lines-of-code exception, but it would likely open all sorts of loopholes and questions. What if I take less than 100 lines from each of ten programs? What if I split the original program into 10 and then take less than 100 from each? You'd have to keep a record of the evolution of each program to be sure people weren't cheating on the license. Bottom line is that any license sucks in some cases, you can't specify every situation and its fair outcome in a legal document. Showing that a license is sometimes bad is insufficient to show it's a bad license; that goes for GPL, BSD, and everything else. They're all good for some purposes and bad for others. It just depends on your purposes which you'll want to choose. It is meaningless to argue the merits unless you do so in relation to an explicitly stated set of goals and values to be furthered by the license. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 09:09:46 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s1c0a$a5h$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> <6s0v6i$f6f@enews4.newsguy.com> Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> writes: >> No, the GNU GPL is the most fair possible license. And the mentioned company >> is a mean capitalist and intellectual proprietarist, thus doesn't deserve any >> respect for its continued blasphemy. John S. Dyson <root@dyson.iquest.net> wrote: >I sure hope that this statement is a joke?!?! :-). All Klaus Schilling's postings are like that. He's either a complete nut case or is attempting to make GNU people look bad by associating them with his idiocy. Or maybe he's an AI tuned to spit out bad pseudo-Marxist rants mixed with GNU language. >-- >John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, >dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid >jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: espel@news.ens.fr (Roger Espel Llima) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 21:38:17 GMT Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure, Paris Message-ID: <6s1v89$5v$1@nef.ens.fr> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> In article <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>, Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >| If gcc had been under the GPL, g++ would have died years ago, as MCC wasn't >| going to try to compete as a compiler vendor. GNU Objective-C would have >| been NeXT Objective-C. Given the gcc experience, it seems that clearly >| the positives exceed the negatives. > >Without BSD-license, there would have been no TCP/IP. Given the >TCP/IP experience, it seems clearly the positives exceed the >negatives. > >The clue is to look at each situation and see what license is >appropriate. For anything where you want to advance the state of the >art, BSD-license (or even more free) is appropriate. For most >development tools, I'd probably go with the GPL - these are to a large >degreee seen as so necessary to do enchancements to that they will be >done no matter what. That is a good summary of the two licenses' respective strengths. If I wanted to push a standard of any kind (a protocol, a toolkit, etc) I'd license it under the modified BSD license (without the obnoxious advertising clause). For just about any other kind of software project of mine, I'd use the GPL. For a project combining the two (say, protocol + user interface), I'd license the whole thing with the GPL, and also allow the protocol part to be reused along with the modified BSD license. There's also a case for just putting software in the public domain; I'd do that for a piece of sw that "makes a point" (as opposed to being useful in itself). -- Roger Espel Llima, espel@llaic.u-clermont1.fr http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/espel/index.html
From: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:11:54 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s217a$k2b$1@flea.best.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <EyAytL.E67@T-FCN.Net> <cn290kbvgon.fsf@demokrit.fim.ntnu.no> <EyB8yM.Lqq@T-FCN.Net> Will everyone please put a cork in it? People can develop software using whatever mechanisms they personally believe in. If other people decide to use a different mechanism, it's no skin off anyone's nose nor is it anyone's business to question their decision. It is YOUR code, do whatever the hell you want with it. I use all three copyrights. Huh? There's a third one? Sometimes I use my own personal commercial anti-exploitation copyright: anyone can run the program, the source is open, but a commercial entity cannot use the source base as part of a substanitally similar product that they then sell. My Diablo news code uses the latter. But most of the stuff I do goes under the BSD copyright... I am perfectly happy and indeed encourage commercial entities to use such code in their own proprietary systems as long as I get credit for it somewhere. They aren't stealing anything from me by doing so. -Matt -- Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications <dillon@best.net> (Please include original email in any response)
From: Philip Tait <pjt@phxase.allied.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:13:19 -0700 Organization: AlliedSignal Engines - Phoenix, AZ Message-ID: <35E4A49E.67729778@phxase.allied.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <slrn6u8bpa.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 1998 00:13:19 GMT Mark Wooding wrote: > Admittedly, I bought the machine as individual parts and assembled them > on the living room carpet, but it was a nice machine at the time I > bought it (and still fairly respectable), and runs Linux very well. > > Building PCs from parts is easy, it's (slightly) cheaper than buying > complete boxes, and it gives you much better control over the hardware > bits, which tends to be the main problem with free operating systems. Wool carpet rather than nylon is preferred if you follow this approach. :-) -- Philip J. Tait.....AlliedSignal Engines, Phoenix, Az.....pjt@phxase.allied.com
From: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:09:11 GMT Organization: Keeping Warm Through Retrocomputing Message-ID: <904177375.463874@tome.pantheon.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> <6s1437$6au$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Cache-Post-Path: tome.pantheon.org!unknown@darkwalker.pantheon.org kskeithley@my-dejanews.com wrote: >Blasphemy? You make this sound like a religious debate? It *is* a religious debate, basically. -- Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ 'You know, I think I can hear the machine screaming from here... \ "help me! hellpp meeeee!"' - Heather Flanagan, 14:52:23 Wed Jun 10 1998
From: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:09:17 GMT Organization: Keeping Warm Through Retrocomputing Message-ID: <904177381.343759@tome.pantheon.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Cache-Post-Path: tome.pantheon.org!unknown@darkwalker.pantheon.org David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >> ``Abuse'' is subjective. Getting a Unix-like operating system to >> work on a new platform takes a huge amount of work. The people >> investing their time and money on an huge effort deserve some >> credit and/or money in return. This is not ``abuse''; it is simply >> fair. >We are not talking about "some credit and/or money" here. We are >talking about *all* of the credit/money here. Didn't Apple name some of the BSD people in it's documentation? -- Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ 'You know, I think I can hear the machine screaming from here... \ "help me! hellpp meeeee!"' - Heather Flanagan, 14:52:23 Wed Jun 10 1998
From: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:09:07 GMT Organization: Keeping Warm Through Retrocomputing Message-ID: <904177371.701178@tome.pantheon.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> <6s0v6i$f6f@enews4.newsguy.com> Cache-Post-Path: tome.pantheon.org!unknown@darkwalker.pantheon.org root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) wrote: >In article <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de>, > Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> writes: >> No, the GNU GPL is the most fair possible license. And the mentioned company >> is a mean capitalist and intellectual proprietarist, thus doesn't deserve any >> respect for its continued blasphemy. >> >I sure hope that this statement is a joke?!?! :-). *Plllease* It's the same damn argument that keeps coming up again and again and again. It's not going to end. It's never going to end. Both sides have built cases for their license based on a set of assumptions and beliefs. It's difficult for the two sides to argue on a level playing field because the assumptions are different. The BSD side doesn't care if the commercial world uses their code in a product that source isn't available for. The BSD world has lots of members who contribute lots of code back to the community -- but they keep some code in order to make a living. If they couldn't make a living then they wouldn't be able to write the code in the first place. C'mon now! The GPL side has people who believe that code should always be available. They believe that the community gains because the source has to be available. They think that software that someone takes, enhances, and releases only executables for takes something away from the community. How can these two groups have a decent discussion? I don't know. Both sides have lots of major examples to show that their side works. In lots of cases one works where the other doesn't, yet the argument goes on again and again. How much code isn't getting written because everyone is too busy fighting the same damn fight that got fought how many months ago (and how many months before that etc etc etc)? -- Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ 'You know, I think I can hear the machine screaming from here... \ "help me! hellpp meeeee!"' - Heather Flanagan, 14:52:23 Wed Jun 10 1998
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:03:04 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6s2i98$4om$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: >> With your code, if I spend months working on it, making great >> contributions, and then want to take some small part, just a few >> hundred lines, and put it in my 100k line program, I have to release >> my whole program under GPL. > >No, you don't. A license only applies to the people who get the code >-- it does not limit what the author of the code can do with the >code. You may release your code under as many licenses you wish. Sorry for not being clear. I meant that I would not be able to take a small part of the GPL'ed code that I did *not* develop and use it in my commercial program. That makes me less inclined to spend a lot of time contributing to a GPL'ed program as opposed to a BSD'ed program, if the program has anything to do with the kind of stuff I do at work (and so is the kind of stuff I'm most likely to be able to contribute to). I'm not sure if this would work from a legal point, but in my opinion the ideal license, if one does not find public domain acceptable, would be to claim a compiliation copyright on the program as a collection of individual functions, and license that copyright under GPL or something similar, but place each individual function in the public domain or license it under something like BSD. This would make it so you are protected against the "Microsoft makes a few incompatible changes and starts selling a binary-only version of my program" case, but people could freely use any neat implementations of cool algorithms that you have. --Tim Smith
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 05:49:35 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6s5gdf$pof@enews2.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <MPG.104e5dc8203068f2989685@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <m3soijdx8i.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2kpr$50l@enews1.newsguy.com> <m2d89m4slc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <m2d89m4slc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) writes: > >> RedHat is quite dependent on the good graces of a bunch of developers >> for their living. They might add a little to the effort (in relative >> terms), but are leveraging and quite dependent on a lot of developers >> by giving those developers' work away for free. >> >> If they were in the business of creating significant derived works, >> with intensive investment, that is *almost* inconsistant with the $20M >> gross business that I have heard claims that they are. > > Which must be why they didn't develop and freely distribute under the > GPL the RedHat Package Management format and the corresponding tools, > and why they don't currently have a set of about half a dozen > developers working on GNOME, which is to be distributed under the > LGPL, mostly (and those applications that aren't LGPLed will be > GPLed). > Half a dozen? So what; that is miniscule. > > Of course, they are not doing all the work, as on the other side of > the lever is a while lot of volunteers responding to the impetus > (which would not be doing half as much if not motivated and excited by > the progress initiated by RedHat). But they provide a lot of > important leverage on their side. > You mean that RedHat depends on free labor of people, and exploits it? -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
From: Marco Nelissen <marcone@xs3.xs4all.nl> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 28 Aug 1998 07:41:18 GMT Organization: XS4ALL, networking for the masses Message-ID: <6s5muu$6va$1@news2.xs4all.nl> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <35E457A5.3668AAD@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> <edgar-ya02408000R2708980944160001@news.math.ohio-state.edu> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980514 (UNIX) (BSD/OS/4.0 (i386)) In comp.sys.be.misc G. A. Edgar <edgar@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote: : It would be interesting to get some of the old put-downs from the PC magazines : when the Macintosh was introduced. You know, about how "real" computer users : don't need mouses. Just like when the Amiga was still hot, PC users would qualify it as a games machine. Of course the only thing they ever did on their PC's (286-386 at that time) was play games, even though their machines were woefully inadequate for that task. (remember Lemmings on Amiga? Scrolling was smooth as silk. The best the PC could do was some kind of jittering 4-pixels-at-a-time movement) Marco
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 27 Aug 98 13:58:36 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> In-reply-to: jbuck@best.com's message of 27 Aug 1998 10:50:45 -0700 In article <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) writes: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: >No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, I can only assume you mean "communalistic" here? "Communistic" would imply that GNU comes in and forcibly take away your intellectual property, which is clearly not the case. >shortsighted, dweeb, penny wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk >inspired, fungus, insipid mentality I think I know where the insipid part comes in... >borne out by shmo's who think they are entitled free stuff. WHAT!!! GNU has _created_ the free stuff! Stallman decides that he doesn't care for the commercial path being taken by software, and thus sets out to _create_ an alternative system completely free of commercial elements - and you call that _entitlement_? If _that_ was the meaning of "entitlement", then why do we ("we"=="U.S." in this case) keep having these debates about welfare reform? If all those welfare recipients are out there building bridges and maintaining parks of their own accord, I say let them continue! This is an entertaining rant, but your next sentences contradict it. It's not even entertaining. John rants on this subject periodically. I just don't understand why he bothers - if you don't like GNU, don't use GNU software. The same can be said of Microsoft stuff - with the difference being that Microsoft is trying to _force_ everyone to use crappy software, whereas GNU is trying to _convince_ everyone to use pretty damn good software. But if it doesn't solve your problems, don't use it. If it does solve your problems, bitching about it's distribution comes off as whiny. >If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give >you something only if you promise to give something back. I see. *You* think that you are entitled to free stuff, and this is your true objection to the GPL. You want *others* to release unencumbered code so that you are not limited if you decide to use it without reciprocating. You want others to give unconditionally so that you don't have to give anything at all. Full agreement. An author should (nay, _must_) have the option of taking their newly created masterpiece out in the backyard and burying it in the garden. Even if it would solve all problems in all places for all people. Any other system is just plain wrong. Authors must be allowed to put any and all restrictions on their creations that they desire. If the restrictions are onerous, then the market will reward the author appropriately. GNU doesn't force an author to release their creation back into the GNU world. They can do whatever they wish with their own creation. GPL only comes into play if they take someone _else's_ creation, modify it, and try to release it into the world. Nobody is forcing them to stand on the shoulders of GNU authors. Authors aren't forced to play in the GNU sandbox unless they want to play with GNU brand sand. They can go their own way if they want. Copymiddle, on the other hand, just says "Hey, here's some sand, go play." And it's obviously not The One Correct License, because _lots_ of companies still reinvent perfectly good wheels rather than use existing copymiddle stuff. If GNU software isn't worth anything, then there is no problem - why would you want to use software that isn't worthwhile software? If GNU software is great software, then if the rules GNU imposes are "bad", well, there should be plenty of great non-GNU software to use instead. The simple fact of the matter is that there are multiple authors out there. Some are most comfortable release their stuff under copyleft, some are more comfortable under copymiddle. I say that we let the authors decide, because they're the ones doing the work. I, for one, am not willing to suppress copyleft if it means I'll no longer get _any_ access to copyleft outputs, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 98 17:24:02 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Distribution: world Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Aug27172402@slave.doubleu.com> References: <SCOTT.98Aug26091536@slave.doubleu.com> <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s4otbINNdds@RA.DEPT.CS.YALE.EDU> In-reply-to: blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu's message of 27 Aug 1998 19:08:27 -0400 In article <6s4otbINNdds@RA.DEPT.CS.YALE.EDU>, blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu (Tom Blenko) writes: Scott Hess wrote: |To a great degree, NeXT, errr, Apple doesn't give a rat's tuckus |about the operating system which underlies their software. They |could take any GPL'ed operating system, hack it to their heart's |content, and then layer over all their value added and sell it - |for a price they feel the value added is worth, completely |discounting the Unix layer. Funny, when NeXT was asked about this over the years, the usual reply was that Mach was important to the product (and specifically the support for IPC, which is quite different in Mach than it is in other Unixes). NeXT said something and you believed it? I'd say that if they did say Mach was important, that's the best reason for believing that they don't care :-). Perhaps I was too strong in saying "they don't give a ...". I really meant that, relative to the OpenStep layer, it's not that important to them. My evidence? The Unix layer has gotten very little in the way of resources, and what work it has gotten tended to be in the "is-it-really-Unix?" parts. I think you can safely say that NeXT hasn't improved their _Unix_ layer much in the 10 or so years they've been hawking it. They've improved other low-level areas (DriverKit, for instance, NetInfo), but not done a lot with the core Unix code (though there was piecemeal upgrades to various binaries). There was even one case where an outside party (Louis Mamakos, who did the CSLIP stuff) sent them BINARY PATCHES to the kernel, and each new release didn't have the fixes in it. Perhaps they think the Unix layer is REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT - and just don't have the resources to make it work? Either way, I think they're better off going to something like Linux or {Net,Open,Free}BSD, which has seen and is seeing active development. Those alternatives would all give them a core Unix which will see continued development even if they cannot afford to add another couple engineers to do it. They need to pick their battles. Apple isn't Sun, and if they try to strike out with their own Unix, they're going to strike out. Conversely, if they try to restrict their Unix so that it's "client only", they're also going to strike out. I don't think they need to scale from network terminals up to fault tolerant clusters, but I do think they need to cover everything from <$800 PCs to large-memory SMP+RAID servers with more-or-less the same APIs. Once you've got a shop convinced to go Apple, forcing them to get a non-Apple box for their fileserver is _not_ a good idea. When they tried to establish the OPENSTEP layer on other platforms they weren't a glaring success. Marketwise, or implementationwise? I think the implementation of OpenStep on NT isn't bad. Most of the problems I had with it were in Unixisms I had used, often unintentionally. Even there, if they'd upgrade to a later version of the cygwin32 stuff, things would be better. I don't know the answer to this one: do the various ports of OPENSTEP/Yellow Box support services? Do the services work? It's supposed to - but regardless of whether it does, that's hardly an operating system level service, it's entirely AppKit driven with a smidgen of daemon support. If Services didn't/doesn't work on OpenStep/Solaris and OpenStep/NT, it's because the AppKit code in question relies too heavily on Speaker/Listener, which has been superceeded by DO for _years_. So perhaps you know something that makes this all moot? Nope. I just remember vividly the first time I installed RedHat Linux a year and some ago. I was quite appalled by all of the nifty Unix-level things that it had, and the 2.2 kernel sounds looks like it's going to be pretty nice. I don't care much for Linux's various user interfaces, much, but see no reason why I can't have the best of both worlds. I have no real reason to believe that Apple is going to manage to improve things over the free BSD's and/or Linux at the Unix level. DriverKit is important and useful, but what about improvements to threading, or handling of VM versus disk buffers, or filesystem improvements, or thorough SMP support? Why _should_ Apple have to aquire all of their own experts in these areas? It would seem more efficient _and_ more effective to instead tackle it as a cooperative project. I'd guess Apple would need a bare minimum of ten high quality engineers to even maintain their core Unix, much less enhance it. Why not hire a couple merely decent engineers to pick through the free software putting together a stable core Unix, plus a couple "Apple Fellow" type positions to do high-level research, which could be thrown back into the free pool? The only competition that makes a difference is Microsoft, and they aren't going to use free ideas, anyhow (they'd rather learn from their own mistakes, thank you very much). Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: earlcp@idirect.com (Earl Pottinger) Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> Organization: ComputerLink Internet Direct. Message-ID: <35e6575b.0@oasis.idirect.com> Date: 28 Aug 98 07:08:11 GMT Frampton Steve R (3srf@qlink.queensu.ca) wrote: : In comp.os.linux.misc Jeff Johnson <pawprint@com.geocities> wrote: : : Please pardon the crossposts, but I'm doing personal research into the : : history of the graphical user interface, and I was wondering if anyone can : : give me pointers to web sites which discuss this. : Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with his Windows 3.0 : creation. :^) : --------------< LINUX: The choice of a GNU generation. >-------------- : Steve Frampton <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> http://qlink.queensu.ca/~3srf Please!!!!!!!!! Okay if you want to know about GUIs you need to know about Alan's work and the companies that rode his coattails. May I suggest "SMALLTALK-80 bits of history, words of advice" by Glenn Krasner. QA76.8.S635S58 ISBN 0-201-11669-3 Copyright 1983 by Xerox Corporation. One thing is clear reading this book Apple (Mac) did not invent the GUI. Earl Colby Pottinger --------------------------------------------------------------------- : Internet Direct. Have you heard about our : : (416)233-2999, 1000 lines Do-It-Yourself Webserver? : : T3 bandwidth, 9600-33,600bps+ISDN http://web.idirect.com : ---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 11:16:26 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m21zq1ihzp.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 1998 09:16:30 GMT cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: > In article <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > > >The GPL prohibits distributing > >derived versions while giving less rights to the recipient than you > >received with the original version. > > Right. However, the GPL goes far beyond derived versions. If I > include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line > program I wrote, I have to give away the entire ten thousand lines > of source code. Does that seem fair to you? "Give away"? You can sell it of course, just under the GPL. Either the hundred lines do not form a substantial part of your work and can be done easily, in which case you can do them yourself and need not bother about other licenses. Or they *do* form a crucial part of your work you could not do yourself properly in a sensible amount of time, then what business do you have to complain about it being unfair that you can use them only according to the wishes of the authors? In neither case you are treated unfairly. You can always decide whether you want to take or leave the stuff, based on what it might be worth to you. You can leave the software alone. I don't see how you are worse off than with not having a choice at all. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 11:34:27 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2zpcph2l8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <MPG.104e494f43d9700d9898c7@news.idt.net> <6s24de$9il$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <MPG.104e5dc8203068f2989685@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <m3soijdx8i.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2kpr$50l@enews1.newsguy.com> <m2d89m4slc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s5gdf$pof@enews2.newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 1998 09:34:54 GMT root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) writes: > In article <m2d89m4slc.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > > root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) writes: > > > >> If they were in the business of creating significant derived works, > >> with intensive investment, that is *almost* inconsistant with the $20M > >> gross business that I have heard claims that they are. > > > > Which must be why they didn't develop and freely distribute under the > > GPL the RedHat Package Management format and the corresponding tools, > > and why they don't currently have a set of about half a dozen > > developers working on GNOME, which is to be distributed under the > > LGPL, mostly (and those applications that aren't LGPLed will be > > GPLed). > > > Half a dozen? So what; that is miniscule. Note that this is a single project, not their main business. If paying half a dozen people full-time for you is miniscule, your finances are enviable. I have worked once for the largest producer of graphics cards in Germany, and in fact there was almost no working group that large. Typical video driver development teams for one operating system were about 3 people, with the Windows department being somewhat better stocked. In fact, quite few free software projects were stocked with as many fully-paid developers. The Free Software Foundation itself would be more than glad to be able to pay as many. > > Of course, they are not doing all the work, as on the other side of > > the lever is a while lot of volunteers responding to the impetus > > (which would not be doing half as much if not motivated and excited by > > the progress initiated by RedHat). But they provide a lot of > > important leverage on their side. > > > You mean that RedHat depends on free labor of people, and exploits > it? I'd say that the core development they are doing currently does not much depend on free labor of other people, but the course of them doing it makes a lot of people jump on the bandwagon. Yes, they are in the business for making a profit, and the code of others being licensed exactly like their own code (under the GPL) will mean that they will benefit from the free and voluntary work of others, too. They have not chosen to work on free software because they consider themselves a charity. They provide distribution and organization services for free software with the intent of making a buck using it, and they are making this buck in a segment wide open to competition, as anybody else can take exactly that bunk of software, including the stuff developed by RedHat and compete with them. If they are "exploiting" people, they are obviously doing it exactly to the conditions those people dictated to them, the GPL. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Graham Briggs <gb226@cam.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:23:27 +0100 Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980828105447.27724C-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <35E5C7FF.6E43DB92@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE In-Reply-To: <35E5C7FF.6E43DB92@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Thomas Rankin wrote: -)Graham Briggs wrote: -)> On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Paul Vigay wrote: -)> <Look at pictures on web> It looks okay, but nothing special. -)> <awaits flames from hundreds of Acorn users> Of course it looks better -)> than Windoze or MacOS, and it looks nice out of the (expensive) box. -)No flames, you're entitled to your opinion, Have you ever programmed for -)Windows Or MacOS and then tried RISC OS?I have always been very impressed -)with Apple Hardware, just very unimpressed with the GUI. I have never been impressed with Apple Mac stuff. I remember when I was at school, and they used 68040 Macs, and System 7.something, and you could wait ages for a GUI event to register. Sometimes it was quite fast though. MacOS just about looks okay now, but back then it looked very primitive, with 2 colour buttons and stuff. I never want to program for windows or the mac.=20 I like the BeOS GUI, btw. Programming for BeOS is fine if you know C++, but hell otherwise. -)> Oh RISC OS is still ROM based. Strange, looking at the Acorn machine I -)> see near me which downloads the OS from a server. 2 4Mb ROMS!!!! cost..= =2E -)How strange? Even with Acorns thin clients and NCs the OS is located -)entirely in ROM.(Dunno about RISCiX machines, but then RISCiX was -)released in 1988).=20 Well the Acorn I'm looking at hasn't been released yet, but it is a network computer. All that is in ROM is an IP settings program and some network software (obviously!). Runs over ATM25/ethernet. At least updating the software for it doesn't cost a lot (no new ROMs) although I read that OS updates on Acorn PC's are done via ROM patches, so that must keep the cost down in the long run. I do like the ARM and StrongARM chips as well, they are very nice to program. -)> and before you go on about PC user, I have only been using a PC for a -)> few months, before that I used my nice Amiga (which needed patches to -)> keep the GUI up to date, so no comments, please).=20 -)I used to own an Amiga, not thru. choice tho. some1 threw it upon me (tha= t -)was when an A500 + CM8833 costed =A3650). Well AmigaOS1.x was quite crude (at least in GUI terms and features) but it wsa written in a couple of months. OS3.1 on a 68060 is a lot better, and a lot of patches have come out for it since it was released (oh so long ago). -)RiscOS was incredible in 1987, and Very good in 1998. I'll believe it is better then Win or Mac easily. Unfortunately, software sells machines, not the OS. Joe Bloggs couldn't care less if the OS does x,y,z if it only runs some good music software and some old games, and the computer it comes on costs twice as much as a cheapo PC that comes with enough software to keep him/her happy. Anyway, the best never wins, the one with the most hype and advertising power does - whatever it is like. Graham
From: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 11:16:15 GMT Organization: CampusMCI Message-ID: <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> On 27 Aug 98 13:58:36, Scott Hess <scott@nospam.doubleu.com> wrote: > >Full agreement. An author should (nay, _must_) have the option of >taking their newly created masterpiece out in the backyard and burying >it in the garden. Even if it would solve all problems in all places >for all people. Any other system is just plain wrong. Authors must >be allowed to put any and all restrictions on their creations that >they desire. If the restrictions are onerous, then the market will >reward the author appropriately. I think this gets to the heart of the issue many folks take with the GPL, the FSF, RMS, etc. The GNU people are not just proponents of copyleft, but in many cases are vocal opponents of just about everything else. In RMS' perfect world, I don't get the impression that you would have the right to bury your masterpiece in the garden, or at least if you did then you would get labeled as a "software hoarder" and a Bad Person in general. While the GPL itself is apolitical, it is very closely tied to RMS' views on IP (with regard to software), which as far as I can tell can be summed up as: -software doesn't cost money to copy, therefore the act of copying/redistribution doesn't hurt anyone, therefore the copying of software is some sort of inalienable right. -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., proprietary software). -the preceding two ideas apply to all software, regardless of their license, but in the case of GPL'd software these "rights" are spelled out explicitly. I think free software (including and not limited to GPL'd software) in general is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but each of three preceding notions are repugnant to me in one way or another. I doubt that most of the people that have written GPL'd code would agree with the above philosophy, but there's no getting around the fact that the GPL is a "politically burdened" license by association. I vastly prefer the attitudes of people like Linus or ESR or the *BSD community in general, who advocate free software without going off on crusades against everything else. I have no problem with copyleft, but numerous problems with the whole GNU philosophy, and therefore the GPL makes me a little queasy. Mike
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 14:12:38 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2soihgv9l.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 1998 12:12:40 GMT Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc.MAPS.SPAM@ne.mediaone.net> writes: > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > > > What the copyright notice says is immaterial. Anyone who creates > > intellectual property autimatically has the copyright to what they > > have created. The only way to lose that right is to explicitly sign > > it over, which is something that most people do not do. > > What a particularly bizarre interpretation of copyright law. This is > only now true of a published work created *ab nihil*. To add code > to an existing work creates a derived work; copyright to the derived > work is held by the original creator. Wrong. The combined work has copyright claims by both authors (thus very likely cannot be published at all unless both agree on a modus of operation), the passage in question is copyrighted by the second author. Why do you think that the FSF demands that you sign over publication rights to passages you contribute to key software of theirs? > > So contributing 100 lines (under the GPL) to some project does in no > > way make it difficult to later take those 100 lines and release it in > > propriatary software. > > If the first expression of that 100 lines of code is in the derived > work, you have no rights to them. You lose your rights to them only if you give them away. Strictly speaking, for each contribution to work of others some agreement has to reached about how this stuff is going to be used. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 14:55:55 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2r9y1gt9g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 1998 12:55:59 GMT mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > On 27 Aug 98 13:58:36, Scott Hess <scott@nospam.doubleu.com> wrote: > > > >Full agreement. An author should (nay, _must_) have the option of > >taking their newly created masterpiece out in the backyard and burying > >it in the garden. The GPL does allow this. The only thing it does not allow is taking the work of someone else, changing it, pass it around while prohibiting recipients to make the same use of it. You are even allowed to modify the works of others and bury the results in the garden. Nobody forces you to hand them around. Only if you do, you have to do it in the same way that you received them. > >Even if it would solve all problems in all places > >for all people. Any other system is just plain wrong. Authors must > >be allowed to put any and all restrictions on their creations that > >they desire. If the restrictions are onerous, then the market will > >reward the author appropriately. This is the current law. And the GPL does not restrict what you can do with your creations. It does restrict what you can do with the creations of others that have placed their work under the GPL. You can do a lot more with GPLed software created by some-one different than you can do with proprietary software, but if you distribute it, you have to stay with the rules. > I think this gets to the heart of the issue many folks take with > the GPL, the FSF, RMS, etc. The GNU people are not just proponents > of copyleft, but in many cases are vocal opponents of just about > everything else. The GNU people IMHO get a lot more bashing than they are dishing out to others. > In RMS' perfect world, I don't get the impression that you would > have the right to bury your masterpiece in the garden, In RMS' perfect world, you would not bury your masterpiece in the garden. But I fail to see where RMS considers a world where this sort of social behaviour is enforced by the law as something good. > or at least if you did then you would get labeled as a "software > hoarder" and a Bad Person in general. If somebody decides to not pass the cure for a problem around at all, this is not an impossible point of view. > While the GPL itself is apolitical, it is very closely tied to RMS' > views on IP (with regard to software), which as far as I can tell > can be summed up as: It is not at all tied to RMS' views on IP. The only thing it is tied to is software distributed under it. You do not need to find RMS a pleasant person in order to use or create works under the GPL. [...] > I think free software (including and not limited to GPL'd software) > in general is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but each of > three preceding notions are repugnant to me in one way or another. They are not relevant to GPLed software, except that it does no harm to think about them. > I doubt that most of the people that have written GPL'd code would > agree with the above philosophy, but there's no getting around the > fact that the GPL is a "politically burdened" license by > association. That's your problem. The license itself applies to a piece of software, and that's that. > I vastly prefer the attitudes of people like Linus or ESR or the > *BSD community in general, who advocate free software without going > off on crusades against everything else. Oh, come off it. The anti-GPL crusades that appear repeatedly on gnu.misc.discuss by BSD proponents are very tiresome and seemingly inexhaustible. I don't think there is any difference in amount or quality than the other way round. Actually, it appears worse to me than the other way round since BSD proponents are advocating their moral superiority (BSD truely free software, GPL is a virus infecting software, if you use GPL software you allow the original author to rape you and rip you off, GPL encumbers software and makes it unusable and so on), while GPL proponents have not much more to their disposal than calling BSD license advocators naïve. As to the attitudes of Linus: he has explicitly and on purpose put the Linux kernel under the GPL and says that this has probably the single most important thing he did for Linux development. Yes, he does not worry much about nonfree software. But as opposed to Richard Stallman, he has not started into the free software venture at a time where nobody cared about free software, the amount of freely available software (once more or less the default mode of operation) was dwindling rapidly and the goal of an overall freely available software pool was a mere idea scoffed at by the industry. If RMS would not have been the paranoid, dreaming and visionary nut he has been, free software would not have the importance it has now. > I have no problem with copyleft, but numerous problems with the > whole GNU philosophy, and therefore the GPL makes me a little > queasy. Perhaps the greatest achievement of Richard Stallman has been that he has refrained from infecting the GPL as a license with more of his philosophy than he considered an absolute necessity for achieving a sensible growth of free software without burdening its authors or controlling or restricting its distribution paths as long as the distributed content was as complete as to not be just bait for the real thing. I find it therefore much easier to use the GPL on one's software than to consider RMS a nice guy with sane views. Regardless of whether you agree with his political views, GPLed software is available for your use, with reasonable exceptions should you want to pass it on. Pick the license you want for the work you are writing, but stop the clamour about how copylefted software attacks you in the night, steals your code and property and is the most immoral thing since the rape of Lucretia. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 11:02:04 GMT Organization: E.C.C. sa - Computer Consultants Message-ID: <6s62nc$8n7$1@justus.ecc.lu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net>, Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc.MAPS.SPAM@ne.mediaone.net> writes: > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> What the copyright notice says is immaterial. Anyone who creates >> intellectual property autimatically has the copyright to what they >> have created. The only way to lose that right is to explicitly sign >> it over, which is something that most people do not do. > What a particularly bizarre interpretation of copyright law. This is > only now true of a published work created *ab nihil*. To add code > to an existing work creates a derived work; copyright to the derived > work is held by the original creator. Is this the informed opinion of a copyright lawyer - in other words, are you a lawyer? If I am asked to add a chapter to an existing book (say to bring it up to date), do I automatically cede my rights to the existing copyright holder? I think not, but IANAL. >> So contributing 100 lines (under the GPL) to some project does in no >> way make it difficult to later take those 100 lines and release it in >> propriatary software. > If the first expression of that 100 lines of code is in the derived > work, you have no rights to them. You retain rights to them only if > they were previously published in a work to which you help copyright. > To extract those 100 lines from the derived, encumbered work either: > > 1. The copyright holder must license or authorize your use of the code, or > 2. The copyright expires under law or placing the work in the public domain, or > 3. The code extracted and its use falls under 'fair use' doctrine. This is ridiculous - if you take someone's code and you add a self-contained function to it, who is to stop you from using that function for another purpose? If I understand your subsequent reasoning correctly, it would suffice to write the function before adding it to the original code (as publication is not necessary to acquire the copyright). Surely just looking at a program and saying 'Hey, let me add this function to it...' wouldn't give the original author rights to whatever I write after that moment of inspiration. Again, IANAL, and am truly interested in getting this opinion confirmed. -- Stefaan -- PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/) ___________________________________________________________________ Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exupéry
From: Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 10:45:52 GMT Organization: E.C.C. sa - Computer Consultants Message-ID: <6s61p0$8j0$1@justus.ecc.lu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> <6s4f1o$54l$2@justus.ecc.lu> <6s4k3g$1f0_084@news.wirehub.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <6s4k3g$1f0_084@news.wirehub.nl>, remote-printer.a_b/c@310402930104.iddd.tpc.int (Glasvezel.Net Helpdesk) writes: > In article <6s4f1o$54l$2@justus.ecc.lu>, Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels) wrote: >>In article <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net>, >> abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes: >>> >>> And without the BSD license noone would ever think about the idea of >>> having computers of different vendors talk to each other? Rrrrrrrreally? >>We might have had OSI (shudder) ;-) > > SNA ? :) > Faced with that alternative: give me OSI or give me death :-) -- Stefaan -- PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/) ___________________________________________________________________ Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exupéry
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 03:54:37 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6s2l9t$50l@enews1.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s2i98$4om$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <6s2i98$4om$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net>, tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) writes: > > I'm not sure if this would work from a legal point, but in my opinion > the ideal license, if one does not find public domain acceptable, would > be to claim a compiliation copyright on the program as a collection of > individual functions, and license that copyright under GPL or something > similar, but place each individual function in the public domain or > license it under something like BSD. > > This would make it so you are protected against the "Microsoft makes a > few incompatible changes and starts selling a binary-only version of > my program" case, but people could freely use any neat implementations > of cool algorithms that you have. > Your suggestion is excellent. That appears to be both commercial friendly, and avoid some peoples objections that someone is using "their" code in a way that defeats their purpose of distributing source. The problem with that scheme though, is that people *tend* to use a default license scheme. So, by default, one would want the compilation copyright to be "GPLish", and the components to be "BSDish." In the compilation copyright one would include Makefiles and tools to build code, while in the *default* copyright for the components, one would include source files, headers, and copies of interface specs. The modified copyright terms would require annotation of the exception, in each source file, in clear language. My "goal" is to allow commercial, proprietary use and redistribution, but support fairly strongly free source distribution. I prefer encouraging source, but reject and regret requirements for source disclosure. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
From: cbbrowne@news.hex.net (Christopher Browne) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 02:29:19 GMT Organization: Hex.Net Superhighway, DFW Metroplex 817-329-3182 Message-ID: <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> On 26 Aug 1998 15:43:56 +0200, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >yourconscience@work.net writes: >GPLed license has an ethical issue: it enforces certain behaviour >considered as ethical, taking away the possibility of making a >conscious choice. > >BSDish licenses do not enforce any ethics. It's up to the recipient >to do the right thing. Or not. Interesting. In effect, the GPL promotes via license clauses a particular ethical system. When you make improvements to GPLed software, you are required to promote that system. In effect, it seeks to *enforce* ethics. Those of the "BSD religion" seem to feel that this "ethics enforcement" is a bad thing. "Ethics enforcement" is obviously a restriction of freedom. In contrast, "BSDish licenses" do not enforce ethics; improvements take place when people *choose* to act according to an ethical system sufficiently similar to that which resulted in the production of the "BSDish" software in the first place. Those of the "GPL religion" seem to feel that it is necessary to *enforce* the ethics in order to ensure continued development and growth of (seemingly free) software. I'd say that both have a point. -- Now, it we had this sort of thing: yield -a for yield to all traffic yield -t for yield to trucks yield -f for yield to people walking (yield foot) yield -d t* for yield on days starting with t ...you'd have a lot of dead people at intersections, and traffic jams you wouldn't believe... (Discussion in comp.os.linux.misc on the intuitiveness of commands.) cbbrowne@hex.net- <http//www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
From: Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Fiend porting efforts? Date: 27 Aug 1998 11:28:37 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Message-ID: <6s3ft5$cmi$4@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <6s1b72$c6k@panix.com> dcl@panix.com (David C. Lambert) wrote: >Hi. > >I have seen snippets of messages that claim that >Fiend.app has been ported to Rhapsody. Assuming >that this is true, could someone please fill me in on >who is doing it, the current status, and where to >find it? Hey, David! Three cheers for David Lambert! Excellent job. I hope for some sort of merge between Fiend and LaunchBar, the best of two worlds.. Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 15:55:39 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y "Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> writes: > So in my words - both GPL and the BSD licenses are giving gifts. > GPL says that you can do what you would like, but don't sell my gift. > BSD says that if we are really giving a gift, the receiver can > do whatever they want with it - including sell it. No, this is wrong. You can sell GPL'd software freely. The same with BSD software. The main difference is that with the GPL you also have to supply the source code, and you also have to allow all your buyers to create derivative works and sell them, etc. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fj.sys.next,fr.comp.sys.next,japan.comp.next Subject: FS:TURBO CUBE DIMENSION SYSTEMS From: sales@deepspacetech.com (DeepSpace Technologies) Organization: DeepSpace Technologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <nYzF1.44$fK.802326@news.abs.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:24:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:24:03 EDT We have just received a shipment of Next equipment. We have approximately 6 Turbo Cube Dimension Systems forsale. Configs are as follows: Turbo Cube Dimension Systems(33mhz) 32/32 540mb HD 17" Sony Trinitron Monitor ADB or NON ADB(YOUR CHOICE) Keyboard Mouse Sound Box Cables Release 3.3 user installed on the HD only. Price each $1995.00 Get your collection before it's too late!!! Respond by phone or fax until Tuesday 9/1. We are changing internet providers and may not get your email!!! -- DeepSpace Technologies 7311 Grove Rd. Suite A-1 Frederick, MD 21701 Phone: 301-663-3033 Fax : 301-620-9634 <http://www.deepspacetech.com>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: bdb@GTS.Net (Hello Kittyhawk) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <EyCvAL.6L.0.hotlips@GTS.Net> Organization: G.T.S., Toronto, Ontario References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:03:56 GMT In article <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net>, Greg Alexander <galexand@ozemail.com.au> wrote: | |So in my words - both GPL and the BSD licenses are giving gifts. |GPL says that you can do what you would like, but don't sell my gift. It does not say that. It says you can sell it as long as your confer the same access rights to source code as you received in order to do it. -- ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario 1 416 699 1868 a /i/ Internet: bdb@gts.org Uucp: ...!gts!bdb `\o\-e millihelen, n. The quantity of beauty required to _< /_ launch one ship. -- Webstar's Fictionary
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 10:26:03 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s6p7b$s5j$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Art <Artemis@soon.to.be> wrote: >Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a GPLer. >We've made it a grounds for dismissal. And who the fsck are you, and why would anyone want to work for you when anyone with programming talent has six or more job offers to choose from? When outfits like Oracle and Informix are doing Linux ports, when there are no companies in the electronic design automation industry who can get products out without using some GPLed software, when the only OS gaining market share against Microsoft is under the GPL, why should anyone listen to some idiot named Art, much less work for such a person. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: jeffm@boxybutgood.com (Jeff Meininger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NEXTSTEP 3.3 mouse behaviour guts Date: 28 Aug 1998 17:33:19 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Message-ID: <6s6pkv$2ch$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is there a way to have non-scaled mouse response, where your cursor moves a distance directly proportional to the distance you moved your mouse? This seems to be the case for the slowest setting under the preferences panel, but it is not fast enough for my taste. From what I understand, I need to mess with some very internal NEXTSTEP voodoo to accomplish this. GKMouseScaler doesn't do exactly what I want because a flat line of a fast enough speed makes the cursor "jumpy"... I just want it faster. Can anyone help me out with this problem? Thanks -Jeff Meininger
From: Egil Kvaleberg <egil@kvaleberg.no> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:29:06 GMT Organization: Siving Egil Kvaleberg AS Sender: egil@sn.no (Egil Kvaleberg) Message-ID: <%HjX51Q1W3@draugen.kvaleberg.no> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> <m2af4q4nr1.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 27 Aug 1998, David Kastrup wrote: > Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> writes: > > The IBM PCs never came with the BIOS listings. > And I distinctly remember having had some assembly listings in > the standard IBM binder where at least the routines accessing the > keyboard and the UART were listed in assembly language. A Technical Referrence for the original PC, XT as well as the AT was available from IBM for a reasonable sum. They contained every circuit diagram, descriptions thereof, as well as a complete commented listing of the Bios. I have them all, standing on a shelf right behind me. They still contain relevant information for todays PCs. Designing a machine compatible with the IBM PC was a proverbial piece of cake. > (at least I cannot > remember any disk access routines or similar advanced stuff in that > listing). The original PC was intended not to be equipped with a floppy disk by default. I'm not sure if ever any PC were delivered without one, but all PCs (not XTs I think) had a built in port for data storage on an audio cassette player. They also had a ROM Basic. Egil -- Email: egil@kvaleberg.no Voice: +47 22523641, 92022780 Fax: +47 22525899 Snail: Egil Kvaleberg, Husebybakken 14A, 0379 Oslo, Norway URL: http://www.kvaleberg.com/ PGP: finger:egil@kvaleberg.com
From: Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 20:20:08 GMT Organization: E.C.C. sa - Computer Consultants Message-ID: <6s4f1o$54l$2@justus.ecc.lu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86btp7pt56.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1tr5$glj$1@client3.news.psi.net> <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net>, abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes: > > And without the BSD license noone would ever think about the idea of > having computers of different vendors talk to each other? Rrrrrrrreally? We might have had OSI (shudder) ;-) -- Stefaan -- PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/) ___________________________________________________________________ Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exupery
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 20:48:10 GMT Organization: FNX Ltd, Intelligent Risk Management Message-ID: <6s752a$8eh$1@client3.news.psi.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <m2r9y1gt9g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> David Kastrup (dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) wrote on MDCCCXXIII September MCMXCIII in <URL: news:m2r9y1gt9g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>: ++ ++ As to the attitudes of Linus: he has explicitly and on purpose put the ++ Linux kernel under the GPL and says that this has probably the single ++ most important thing he did for Linux development. He would probably say the same had he but Linux under the BSD license, the AL or any other license that allow free use and modifications. Abigail
From: hfiguiere@teaser.fr (Hubert Figuiere) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Followup-To: junk Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:56:31 +0200 Organization: FrBUG Message-ID: <1dehu4k.1gqb8lp1gjd0ooN@ppp2326-ft.teaser.fr> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <35E457A5.3668AAD@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> <edgar-ya02408000R2708980944160001@news.math.ohio-state.edu> <1deg90p.vasm5o5czw1oN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 1998 20:52:15 GMT [ follow-up to junk please ] Geoffrey Peters <qed@apexmail.com> wrote: > In the early days - just after Windows was made available to run on our > brand-new DeskPro 286's - graphical interfaces were often referred to as > WIMP interfaces. Apparently, it stood for Windows, Icons, Mice and > Pull-down menus. An now WIMP stands for Windows Intel Microsoft Pentium :-) Hub -- Hubert Figuière - MacOS/BeOS/UNIX developer PowerPC powered
From: Thomas Rankin <trankin@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:56:31 +0100 Message-ID: <35E5C7FF.6E43DB92@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Graham Briggs wrote: > On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Paul Vigay wrote: > > -)In article <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no>, > -) Arthur Hagen <art@kether.broomstick.com> wrote: > > <Look at pictures on web> It looks okay, but nothing special. > <awaits flames from hundreds of Acorn users> Of course it looks better > than Windoze or MacOS, and it looks nice out of the (expensive) box. > No flames, you're entitled to your opinion, Have you ever programmed for Windows Or MacOS and then tried RISC OS?I have always been very impressed with Apple Hardware, just very unimpressed with the GUI. > Oh RISC OS is still ROM based. Strange, looking at the Acorn machine I > see near me which downloads the OS from a server. 2 4Mb ROMS!!!! cost... > How strange? Even with Acorns thim clients and NCs the OS is located entirely in ROM.(Dunno about RISCiX machines, but then RISCiX was released in 1988). > and before you go on about PC user, I have only been using a PC for a > few moneths, before that I used my nice Amiga (which needed patches to > keep the GUI up to date, so no comments, please) > > :-) > I used to own an Amiga, not thru. choice tho. some1 threw it upon me (that was when an A500 + CM8833 costed £650). RiscOS was incredible in 1987, and Very good in 1998.
From: {$PW$}@pwomar.demon.co.uk (Paul Womar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:04:01 +0100 Message-ID: <1defszn.ko954tlkiq8iN@pwomar.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <35E457A5.3668AAD@sanguinarius.demon.co.uk> <edgar-ya02408000R2708980944160001@news.math.ohio-state.edu> <1deg90p.vasm5o5czw1oN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> Mail-Copies-To: never Geoffrey Peters <qed@apexmail.com> wrote: > WIMP interfaces. Apparently, it stood for Windows, Icons, Mice and > Pull-down menus. I always heared it as P being for Pointer. I think maybe mouse was menus too. -- -> The email address in this message *IS* Valid <-
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <m2u32yf6zh.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 28 Aug 1998 00:08:59 +0200 Message-ID: <86soiinklg.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * David Kastrup | John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: | | > Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that | > freedom. So it fails at the big things in life. Easing people's | > toil and chores in the corporate world. A lot of people could | > benefit from that code, but may not use it because of the license. | | They may use it in whatever way they want. They may just not sell it | in more restricted ways than it was given to them. The GPL was not | designed to be "easing people's toils and chores in the corporate | world" by letting the people sell restricted copies of GPL stuff | without contributing back to what has started out as a community | effort. You're jumping to conclusions. "Not contributing back" and "Not contributing everything back" are NOT the same. I'm not contributing everything I do back to the *BSD efforts - but I'm contributing back most of it, and I'm contributing back way more than I could do if I hadn't been able to propertarize the stuff I don't contribute back. I'm contributing back more than I stricly need to produce to be able to do things I do, corporate-wise - but I'm able to do that because I'm _not_ forced to contribute back everything. With that force, I wouldn't have been able to contribute much at all - because I would have had to do completely different things as my job (if I was to work the same place, at least). Sure, the GPL wasn't designed to allow this - and that's why I consider the GPL a bad license for many things (not all - I believe it probably is appropriate for most development tools). It removes a lot of opportunities, for the benefit of some feeling of 'security' against commercial explotation - and at the same time inducing the loss of the efforts of people that aren't able to work on the software due to the GPL. Eivind.
From: hal@sims.berkeley.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 22:26:24 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Distribution: world Message-ID: <6s4meg$8p6$1@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> In article <kg4suzfzgb.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> writes: > The IBM PCs never came with the BIOS listings. Compaq spent lots of > money and time developing a legal alternative to the IBM PC BIOS. > It's also the reason why we had gwbasic instead of the BIOS basic that > was built in to the originals. I don't think you are right. I bought the BIOS listings with my first IBM PC in 1980, which IBM published in lieu of documentation. On the other hand, you are write about Compaq---just because IBM published the code listing of the first PC's BIOS didn't mean that they allowed other companies to reproduce the BIOS in firmware. As I recall, the GWBASIC/PCBASIC was a Microsoft decision. PCBASIC was built into the BIOS, as you say. GWBASIC was a Microsoft product that was licensed to companies that used other BIOS's. Or so I recall---it's been a while... -- Hal Varian, Dean voice: 510-642-9980 SIMS, 102 South Hall fax: 510-642-5814 University of California hal@sims.berkeley.edu Berkeley, CA 94720-4600 http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/~hal
From: blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu (Tom Blenko) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 19:08:27 -0400 Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158 Distribution: world Message-ID: <6s4otbINNdds@RA.DEPT.CS.YALE.EDU> References: <SCOTT.98Aug26091536@slave.doubleu.com> <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> |To a great degree, NeXT, errr, Apple doesn't give a rat's tuckus about |the operating system which underlies their software. They could take |any GPL'ed operating system, hack it to their heart's content, and then |layer over all their value added and sell it - for a price they feel |the value added is worth, completely discounting the Unix layer. Funny, when NeXT was asked about this over the years, the usual reply was that Mach was important to the product (and specifically the support for IPC, which is quite different in Mach than it is in other Unixes). When they tried to establish the OPENSTEP layer on other platforms they weren't a glaring success. I don't know the answer to this one: do the various ports of OPENSTEP/Yellow Box support services? Do the services work? So perhaps you know something that makes this all moot? Tom
From: "Greg Alexander" <galexand@ozemail.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:56:49 +1000 Organization: OzEmail Ltd. Message-ID: <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> Christopher Browne wrote: >Those of the "GPL religion" seem to feel that it is necessary to >*enforce* the ethics in order to ensure continued development and growth >of (seemingly free) software. > >In contrast, "BSDish licenses" do not enforce ethics; improvements take >place when people *choose* to act according to an ethical system >sufficiently similar to that which resulted in the production of the >"BSDish" software in the first place. I had no idea the licenses were such an issue. I must admit I understand them much more now... I hadn't read a comparison anywhere! So in my words - both GPL and the BSD licenses are giving gifts. GPL says that you can do what you would like, but don't sell my gift. BSD says that if we are really giving a gift, the receiver can do whatever they want with it - including sell it. It's like art. Lets say I have a piece of art that is 95% made by others. Under GPL, I can't sell that because it's not mine - and in fact my contribution must be freely given away. Ie - I can't sell my 5%. Under BSD, I can sell it all, including the 95% that isn't mine - so I've taken value from someone else's work. So either way it can look bad. In terms of how it works, the BSD encourages companies and individuals to become engaged, bringing more resources, but not all expands the BSD effort. Linux encourages more individuals and groups who don't need to 'own' their code. Fewer resources means less work, but ALL expands the Linux code. So both systems work, both expand, but they use different types of people. >I'd say that both have a point. I think so. I hope I haven't offended anyone, I'm just trying to understand. Greg
From: mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk (Mark Wooding) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 27 Aug 1998 14:15:15 GMT Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre Message-ID: <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: > You're missing at least one fundamental point: [...] > So you end up (in some cases) with people not taking your code, adding > neat things to it and releasing it _in any form_. In this case, you > loose. No: I win. You're missing something important too: I'd rather people didn't use my code at all rather than redistributing it under a restrictive licence. I happen to agree with rms that restrictive licences are immoral, and that we're better off without Hoarded software. > In the case where they would have released it in binary form > only, you would have had a pretty much neutral result, possibly > considered slightly positive by having driven the state of the art. No. Here I'd lose, because I'd have helped a company make money out of Hoarding software, and I did most of the work for them. I wouldn't be even slightly happy about that. -- [mdw]
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <87g1ek2jmp.fsf@ivm.de> <6s2rm9$1r0$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> From: cmikk@tig.oss.uswest.net (Chris Mikkelson) Message-ID: <35e5745c.0@news2.uswest.net> Date: 27 Aug 1998 09:59:40 +0500 In article <6s2rm9$1r0$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com>, John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: >Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> wrote: >> fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >> > >> > >Only the GNU General Public License protects contributers from >> > >commercial abuse. >> >> At least it tries to, and that's what counts. > >Mengele, in his mind, might have only tried to advance the art of medicine, ^^^^^^^ >but that's not what counts. Ooooh! *so* close to Godwin ;-) -Chris
From: Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:21:53 -0400 Organization: None Message-ID: <35E63061.13C8@ibm.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Kheit wrote: > > Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> wrote: > > While I disagree with the GPL on moral grounds (I don't believe > > in intellectual property, which the GPL still kinds of relies > > I disagree with them on moral grounds too, but I certainly do believe in IP, > and if you're honest you do too. Otherwise I would guess you'd have no > problem with someone taking your name, social security number, and identity > and going around and using it. That is a very basic and personal form of IP, > an identity, your trade name, so to speak. I'm honest, and no, I don't. Intellectual property is the idea that people can own ideas and restrict others from using them. I don't think that ownership of ideas is logical, hence I don't believe in intellectual property. People taking my name? Well, there probably *are* other Pat Gunns. However, what you're really talking about is dishonesty and maybe fraud. Intellectual Property and honesty are completely different things. If I acquire package X somehow without signing a license for it, and I give it to my friends, I'm not being dishonest. All I'm doing is letting them copy information that I have. No dishonesty there. > > on, in a not-wanting-to-do-it kind of way), I still feel obliged > > to point out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be > > failing in practice. Note that GNU software is everywhere, having > > a place in probably close to all Unix systems and a large number > > of other architectures. If your argument is against the BSD > > license as well, which it seems that it would be (as it would > > seem to be by your advocacy of making things truly free), then > > it would be important to mention that the BSD camp has enjoyed > > similar success to the GNU project. While I don't think that the > > BSD and GNU licenses are quite perfect, they certainly give me > > a lot more freedom than I would have with most commercial licenses. > > Finally, the GNU project doesn't make you give things back. People > > who don't contribute to the GNU project arn't hunted down by > > snipers :) > > Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that freedom. So it > fails at the big things in life. Easing people's toil and chores in the > corporate world. A lot of people could benefit from that code, but may not > use it because of the license. With MiscKit no such communist problem > exists. Commercial entities have the same freedom that I have with GNU and BSD software. With GNU, if I modify it and distribute it, I need to use their license. If I don't modify it or don't release it, I don't need to muck with licenses at all. Communism is a political system describing a government. Use the word socialism -- it's more accurate. > Don't get me wrong, I think tons of very cool people did very cool and good > things at GNU. I just think the philosphy and license are dumb ass. It's > not to say that for some GNU isn't a fine solution; i.e. when you're just > setting out to do a little app that you never expect or care about making > money on. Unlike the moron that wrote the gnu philosphy, the rest of the > world who does coding believes they *do* need to make a living at programming > and be compensated at least enough to put bread on the table for their > children. It's *not* an honor or priveledge to do 50 hours of grog cobol > coding every week, it's a job, and deserves pay. If GNU and BSD stuff is "dumb ass", then most commercial licenses are even "dumber ass". If you have 2 things, and one is significantly better than the other, calling it "dumb ass" isn't particularly helpful, as whatever influence you have is just going to make people use the "dumber ass" software. -- --------------------------------------------------- Pat Gunn, moderator:comp.sys.newton.announce comoderator:comp.os.os2.moderated "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -- Dr Who http://junior.apk.net/~qc ------------------------------------------------
From: ullrich@gwis.com (Jan Ullrich Bister) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Date: 29 Aug 1998 00:45:48 GMT Organization: Gateway to Internet Services Message-ID: <6s7ivs$jha$3@news.gwis.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6rvtr5$qrc$2@news12.ispnews.com> Jeff Johnson (pawprint@com.geocities) wrote: : Oh good lord, I can't believe I crossposted the word "histroy" all over the : place.... Damn OE spellchecker must only work on the body of the message! That, or maybe it couldn't decide between 'history' and 'destroy' and so chose to shut up. :) Jan
From: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 20:20:04 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s7s14$856$1@flea.best.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> <86u32ynqiy.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s6rka$5kc$1@shell17.ba.best.com> :In article <6s6rka$5kc$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: :>Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: :>>Without a BSD-style license (that is, an actual free license) it is :>>unlikely it would be TCP/IP. :> :>Wrong. TCP/IP was developed under DARPA contracts, at a time before :>the current BSD license existed. You needed a Unix license to get :>the Berkeley code; there were also other implementations for other :>OSes. Many of them had "free for research use only" licenses. :>The BSD code was the first really good implementation, but it was :>going to be developed regardless of license terms, since Uncle Sam :>was paying. :> :>And the commercial OS vendors fought TCP/IP for years. :>-- :>-- Joe Buck :> work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com :>http://www.welsh-buck.org/ I would like to point out that when I entered UCBerkeley, around 1988, all I had to do was sign a little piece of paper to get free access to the entire BSD source base (which, at that time, was BSD 4.2). The source licence basically gave students of U.C. and other colleges free reign. -Matt -- Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications <dillon@best.net> (Please include original email in any response)
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 15:12:58 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6s6hdq$lpr$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E63061.13C8@ibm.net> Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> wrote: > I'm honest, and no, I don't. Intellectual property is the idea > that people can own ideas and restrict others from using them. > I don't think that ownership of ideas is logical, hence I don't > believe in intellectual property. People taking my name? Well, > there probably *are* other Pat Gunns. However, what you're really > talking about is dishonesty and maybe fraud. Intellectual Property Yes. Fraud is a protection of IP. You can't just go out and start using the name Coca Cola yourself. Lots of people would like to. To take advantage of a TM worth over 43 BILLION dollars. But you can't. I'd love to call myself Michal Jordan and start using that name to market my goods. But the law provides protection against such abuses. > and honesty are completely different things. If I acquire package > X somehow without signing a license for it, and I give it to my > friends, I'm not being dishonest. All I'm doing is letting them > copy information that I have. No dishonesty there. Right sure. So when you write a book about your life. And I get someone to go buy a copy or steal yours, then I'll be free to reprint it myself, market myself, and when I make 35mill off of it, keep the proceeds myself. > > Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that > > freedom. So it fails at the big things in life. Easing people's > > toil and chores in the corporate world. A lot of people could > > benefit from that code, but may not use it because of the > > license. With MiscKit no such communist problem exists. > > Commercial entities have the same freedom that I have with GNU > and BSD software. With GNU, if I modify it and distribute it, I > need to use their license. If I don't modify it or don't release > it, I don't need to muck with licenses at all. Communism is a > political system describing a government. Use the word socialism > -- it's more accurate. No it's not. I know what I'm saying, at least in this case. I was born in a communist country. I got a pretty damn good handle on it. I mean what I say here. > If GNU and BSD stuff is "dumb ass", then most commercial licenses > are even "dumber ass". If you have 2 things, and one is significantly > better than the other, calling it "dumb ass" isn't particularly > helpful, as whatever influence you have is just going to make > people use the "dumber ass" software. Again, there's nothing wrong with charing money or wanting consideration for your work. That's not the problem I have with GNU. It's their hypocracy. See my other article in this thread on it for a better explanation of my meaning if you'd like. BTW, I agree that some commercial licenses are extremely dumb ass in that they try to take away copyrights from the licensee that they cannot (like not allowing you to make a back up copy). And it's not a question of which is more stupid from a licensing stand point. One is commercial, and it's a fine tool. You use it if you like it, and not otherwise, and the same goes with the GNU license. In and of itself, if it were honestly advertised as what it is rather than some free entitty which it is not, it's not a bad thing; and it too has fine use in a different kind of context (a more academic one imo). -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:39:42 -0400 Organization: None Message-ID: <35E6DD4E.42BE@ibm.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E63061.13C8@ibm.net> <6s6hdq$lpr$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Kheit wrote: > Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> wrote: > > I'm honest, and no, I don't. Intellectual property is the idea > > that people can own ideas and restrict others from using them. > > I don't think that ownership of ideas is logical, hence I don't > > believe in intellectual property. People taking my name? Well, > > there probably *are* other Pat Gunns. However, what you're really > > talking about is dishonesty and maybe fraud. Intellectual Property > Yes. Fraud is a protection of IP. You can't just go out and start > using the name Coca Cola yourself. Lots of people would like to. > To take advantage of a TM worth over 43 BILLION dollars. But you > can't. I'd love to call myself Michal Jordan and start using that > name to market my goods. But the law provides protection against > such abuses. Fraud and Intellectual Property are completely separate. There is dishonesty inherent in Fraud, and none in violation of `intellectual property` > > and honesty are completely different things. If I acquire package > > X somehow without signing a license for it, and I give it to my > > friends, I'm not being dishonest. All I'm doing is letting them > > copy information that I have. No dishonesty there. > > Right sure. So when you write a book about your life. And I get > someone to go buy a copy or steal yours, then I'll be free to > reprint it myself, market myself, and when I make 35mill off of > it, keep the proceeds myself. Everything I write or produce (at least so far) that people might be interested in includes something very similar to "This * may be distributed and modified freely." where * is software, document, or paper. If I really ever write something, and provided I don't have a change of heart, if you have a press, a scanner, and are really bored, print away. Not sure what the point would be, since by the time you get it like that it'll be in the library probably... > > > Maybe they do, but GNU doesn't give commercial entities that > > > freedom. So it fails at the big things in life. Easing people's > > > toil and chores in the corporate world. A lot of people could > > > benefit from that code, but may not use it because of the > > > license. With MiscKit no such communist problem exists. > > > > Commercial entities have the same freedom that I have with GNU > > and BSD software. With GNU, if I modify it and distribute it, I > > need to use their license. If I don't modify it or don't release > > it, I don't need to muck with licenses at all. Communism is a > > political system describing a government. Use the word socialism > > -- it's more accurate. > > No it's not. I know what I'm saying, at least in this case. I > was born in a communist country. I got a pretty damn good handle > on it. I mean what I say here. Communism is a full governmental system, and usually refers to what we have seen in the Soviet Union and China. Socialism is quite a bit more broad, and would better corrispond with what Marx had in mind for his ideal government. > > If GNU and BSD stuff is "dumb ass", then most commercial licenses > > are even "dumber ass". If you have 2 things, and one is significantly > > better than the other, calling it "dumb ass" isn't particularly > > helpful, as whatever influence you have is just going to make > > people use the "dumber ass" software. > > Again, there's nothing wrong with charing money or wanting > consideration for your work. That's not the problem I have with > GNU. It's their hypocracy. See my other article in this thread > on it for a better explanation of my meaning if you'd like. BTW, > I agree that some commercial licenses are extremely dumb ass in > that they try to take away copyrights from the licensee that they > cannot (like not allowing you to make a back up copy). > > And it's not a question of which is more stupid from a licensing > stand point. One is commercial, and it's a fine tool. You use it > if you like it, and not otherwise, and the same goes with the GNU > license. In and of itself, if it were honestly advertised as what > it is rather than some free entitty which it is not, it's not a bad > thing; and it too has fine use in a different kind of context (a > more academic one imo). I never claimed GNU was the godliest license on earth. Claims are irrelivant. Windows claims to make me more productive. It doesn't, so I don't use it. GNU and BSD should probably be judged by the amount of software that they have made available to people with relatively lax licensing terms, and by the ease of working in a community on GNU and BSD projects. I don't claim that they give you lots of freedom. I just think that they're better in every way over most commercial licenses. -- --------------------------------------------------- Pat Gunn, moderator:comp.sys.newton.announce comoderator:comp.os.os2.moderated "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -- Dr Who http://junior.apk.net/~qc ------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <wsn67fcpdvd.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> <6s6rof$61u$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <MPG.1050fbb0472b07c898968b@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 05:15:50 GMT Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > > That's silly. "Derived" implies "is the basis of". Including code that > redraws a window is for example not the basis of the entire operating > system. Adding a drop of proprietary water to a bottle of wine doesn't > make the wine derived from the drop of water, it's negligible. The > problem with definitions is that they're usually created by extremists > who wouldn't know how to deal with anything in between if their life > depended on it. > Bzzzt. "Derived" is defined by legal precedent and copyright law, not the GPL. This definition was created by congress and the courts. (I guess you could call them extremists but...) There is an imprecisely defined amount of code that's considered negligible and does not create a derived work; this is "fair use" and also allows you to quote from books, etc. It's a very small amount of code, probably not a useful amount. But it's all defined by the law, not the GPL. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 10:16:46 -0600 Organization: The Children's Hospital of Denver Sender: is001652@nasrullah.tchden.org Message-ID: <yq33eahnksx.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > > No, my true objection is to that philosphy that genuinly extols > that the prick that wrote it, and those that subscribe to it, > believe that programmers should just do the work for the love of > it. That it's a priveledge and fun to do and they really shouldn't > be compensated. That entire philosphy is idiotic to impressive > extent. Mengele... shortsighted, dweeb... and now prick. Did a wildebeast kill your dog?? > > What further pisses me off is the hypocracy with GNU people in that > they claim stuff is free, but it's not, it's got some serious > strings attatch as you note below, yet they want credit for actually > giving stuff away for free when it comes with a sizable whammy > incumbrance. The only real whammy is that if you *decide* to derive from GPLed work is that your work is GPLed. If you don't like the quid pro quo then don't build on GPLed work. > > I believe the only true gifts are those that don't require > reciprocation. All other things are consideration. The misckit > makes true gifts to the world, the GNU license does not. I feel From the misckit license: >=>2.The MiscKit administrator's permission must be obtained for: >=> >=> 1.any large-scale distribution of the MiscKit. >=> >=> 2.redistribution of the MiscKit, or any parts of the MiscKit, in printed form. >=> >=> 3.distributing a modified version of the MiscKit. Modified versions of the >=> MiscKit must also be plainly marked as such, with a suitable warning, and may not be >=> misrepresented as being the original software. How free a gift can you get? Beyond that, their use of Objective-C is ironic in the extreme. > I think > that the most magnanamous people are those that release things with > no strings attatched. True PD. What pisses me off is that the > [snip] > from the rest of the world, but they deem that programmers really > don't need to be compensated for thier work. That's a flying sack Interesting and all in one paragraph, makes the head spin. > GNU idiocy would have you believe they are in the latter catagory > when they are far from it. They take consideration for your access > and use of their code. You scratch my back... > And it's that hypocritical attitude that > pisses me off to no end; i.e. it's ok for them to require consideration > from the rest of the world, And I'll scratch yours. > but they deem that programmers really > don't need to be compensated for thier work. Quid pro quo. Barter economy. No one is forcing you to write GPLed code, unless of course, you are hoping to derive from GPLed code. > That's a flying sack > of dung filled hypocracy and why the entire GNU license is shit, > and the people that back it are hypocrites. In my opinion. And a really livid, unpleasantly expressed opinion at that. > Which is fine and dandy. Nothing wrong with that. But it's not > freely given, and trying to make others believe otherwise is a > load. IMO, YMMV. The more vitriol I read, the more I believe that the desire to make proprietary derivative works of GPLed products forms the core of the vitriol. IMO, YMMV. > -- > Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... -- Whatever. Louis
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 11:07:06 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6s6rka$5kc$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <863eajpgp6.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s4agt$qrm$3@client3.news.psi.net> <86u32ynqiy.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >Without a BSD-style license (that is, an actual free license) it is >unlikely it would be TCP/IP. Wrong. TCP/IP was developed under DARPA contracts, at a time before the current BSD license existed. You needed a Unix license to get the Berkeley code; there were also other implementations for other OSes. Many of them had "free for research use only" licenses. The BSD code was the first really good implementation, but it was going to be developed regardless of license terms, since Uncle Sam was paying. And the commercial OS vendors fought TCP/IP for years. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 15:04:31 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6s6gtv$lpr$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: > In article <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, > jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) writes: > John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: > >No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, > > I can only assume you mean "communalistic" here? "Communistic" > would imply that GNU comes in and forcibly take away your > intellectual property, which is clearly not the case. I meant what I said. > >shortsighted, dweeb, penny wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk > >inspired, fungus, insipid mentality > > I think I know where the insipid part comes in... I'm so happy with what you think you know. > >borne out by shmo's who think they are entitled free stuff. > > WHAT!!! GNU has _created_ the free stuff! Stallman decides that > he doesn't care for the commercial path being taken by software, > and thus sets out to _create_ an alternative system completely > free of commercial elements - and you call that _entitlement_? That's the lie that pisses me off. It didn't create anything free. I'll get to that down below. > If _that_ was the meaning of "entitlement", then why do we > ("we"=="U.S." in this case) keep having these debates about > welfare reform? If all those welfare recipients are out there > building bridges and maintaining parks of their own accord, I > say let them continue! They're not. > This is an entertaining rant, but your next sentences contradict > it. > > It's not even entertaining. John rants on this subject periodically. I'm so sorry you weren't. > I just don't understand why he bothers - if you don't like GNU, > don't use GNU software. The same can be said of Microsoft stuff > - with the difference being that Microsoft is trying to _force_ > everyone to use crappy software, whereas GNU is trying to _convince_ > everyone to use pretty damn good software. > > But if it doesn't solve your problems, don't use it. If it does > solve your problems, bitching about it's distribution comes off > as whiny. I don't use it. Why I bother is this. That idiot that made the manifesto and those that drink tons of koolaid over it are a bunch of freek'n hypocrites. The claim often is that GNU is giving stuff away to the world for free, when it is far from doing so. The claim is that people that do GNU work are making gifts when that is far from the truth. Gifts do not require any consideration. They are freely given, and once given those receiving them are free to use them in any manner without any strings. To use GNU stuff you *must* provide consideration. There are huge strings attached. If you use it, you will have to give away your own source code away. Now there is nothing wrong with this in and of itself; if you want a situation where you want this kind of contractual exchange, fine. The part that pisses me off is the notion that something is being given away for free because it really demeans others wonderful contributions. Let me try and clarify. If you want to charge money for your time and money, I think that's great and fair. After working long and hard on software or other things, I think you not only deserve to make money to feed your family, but to live well. Nothing wrong with it, I like it. If you want to go half way and do something like GNU where you get a later return, that's fine too, nothing wrong with that either. And if you want to give your software away completely for free for others to use in anyway, I think that's pretty damn big of you. On that scale the latter is a) the only one that is giving us a free gift, and b) the only one that's doing it for no consideration. That GNU claims to do the same is like a spit in the face of those people, for one thing. But the ultimate piss off for me is the extreme hypocrisy. Let me explain further. That piece of shit communist inspired moronic manifesto, now called a philosophy, that moron goes on to talk about how in his mind programmers really shouldn't be paid. That it's so much fun and such a privilege to code that they really don't deserve to be paid. That all their work should go to the benefit of others for no consideration. Then that same piece of crap makes a license that *does* demand compensation for the use of his GNU works. That is some impressive hypocrisy in my mind, and why I can't freak'n stand the entire GNU philosophy, it's so hypocritically laden, obnoxiously stupid, and amoral in its purported morality that I think it's an offense to all the good programmer folk out in the industry. That's why Scott. YMMV. Again, it's not to say great work and great people haven't been involved in GNU. Clearly they have. > >If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll > >give you something only if you promise to give something > >back. > > I see. *You* think that you are entitled to free stuff, and > this is your true objection to the GPL. You want *others* to > release unencumbered code so that you are not limited if you > decide to use it without reciprocating. You want others to > give unconditionally so that you don't have to give anything > at all. > > Full agreement. An author should (nay, _must_) have the option > of taking their newly created masterpiece out in the backyard > and burying it in the garden. Even if it would solve all problems > in all places for all people. Any other system is just plain > wrong. Authors must be allowed to put any and all restrictions > on their creations that they desire. If the restrictions are > onerous, then the market will reward the author appropriately. No, I don't think I deserve anything for free. I'm happy to pay programmers for their hard work. I think they've earned it, unlike that piece of crap that wrote that manifesto. What I don't want to do is give him credit for providing free software when he in fact does not. That's what I won't do. I'm calling that spade a spade. > GNU doesn't force an author to release their creation back into > the GNU world. They can do whatever they wish with their own > creation. GPL only comes into play if they take someone _else's_ > creation, modify it, and try to release it into the world. Nobody > is forcing them to stand on the shoulders of GNU authors. Authors > aren't forced to play in the GNU sandbox unless they want to play > with GNU brand sand. They can go their own way if they want. It fails to make the average programmer's life easier b/c they cannot just use the code in their commercial work. They end up re-inventing the wheel because otherwise they'll just have to release their own code, and I'm sure that's something their competition would enjoy seeing (trade secrets, knowhow, and all). The misckit philosophy does far more IMO. > I, for one, am not willing to suppress copyleft if it means I'll > no longer get _any_ access to copyleft outputs, I think it's a fine license (minus the moron philosophy behind it) in and of itself. I'm just not giving it credit for being a free software foundation. It's not. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc.MAPS.SPAM@ne.mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:33:43 -0400 Organization: MCB, Inc. Message-ID: <35E72237.F83B82B9@ne.mediaone.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net> <m2soihgv9l.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kastrup wrote: > > Wrong. The combined work has copyright claims by both authors (thus > very likely cannot be published at all unless both agree on a modus of > operation), the passage in question is copyrighted by the second > author. Having just reviewed USC 17, I have to admit you are correct. (Damn that Berne Convention.) But with some provisions concerning publishing a derived work containing contributions made under one license to modify the original with the latter work released unilaterally under a new license. In particular, when various pieces made the GPL->LGPL transition. -- Monty Brandenberg, Software Consultant MCB, Inc. mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM P.O. Box 426188 mcbinc@world.std.com.MAPS.SPAM Cambridge, MA 02142 617.864.6907
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: bdb@GTS.Net (Hello Kittyhawk) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <EyF6J3.7xn.0.hotlips@GTS.Net> Organization: G.T.S., Toronto, Ontario References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 22:01:50 GMT In article <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Art <Artemis@soon.to.be> wrote: |In article <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net>, pgunn01@ibm.net says... |> I still feel obliged to point |> out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be failing |> in practice. | |Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a GPLer. |We've made it a grounds for dismissal. & by such an attitude you & your company will thereby be dismissed by most responsible & competent programmers... -- ,u, Bruce Becker Toronto, Ontario 1 416 699 1868 a /i/ Internet: bdb@gts.org Uucp: ...!gts!bdb `\o\-e millihelen, n. The quantity of beauty required to _< /_ launch one ship. -- Webstar's Fictionary
From: Craig Burley <burley@tweedledumb.cygnus.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 12:35:41 -0400 Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <y6hfyxm5cy.fsf@tweedledumb.cygnus.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Artemis@soon.to.be(Art) writes: > Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a GPLer. > We've made it a grounds for dismissal. Since you posted anonymously, could you please post complete information on who you are, what organization(s) you work for, including their full addresses? That we we can know how to avoid ever responding to any solicitiations you or your organization(s) might send out requesting programming help. -- "Practice random senselessness and act kind of beautiful." James Craig Burley, Software Craftsperson burley@gnu.org
From: Pascal Bourguignon <pbourgui@afaa.asso.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NEXTSTEP 3.3 mouse behaviour guts Date: 29 Aug 1998 09:16:59 GMT Organization: None Message-ID: <6s8gub$27c$1@news.imaginet.fr> References: <6s6pkv$2ch$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> jeffm@boxybutgood.com (Jeff Meininger) wrote: >Is there a way to have non-scaled mouse response, where your cursor >moves a distance directly proportional to the distance you moved >your mouse? This seems to be the case for the slowest setting under >the preferences panel, but it is not fast enough for my taste. From >what I understand, I need to mess with some very internal NEXTSTEP >voodoo to accomplish this. GKMouseScaler doesn't do exactly what I want >because a flat line of a fast enough speed makes the cursor "jumpy"... I >just want it faster. Can anyone help me out with this problem? > >Thanks >-Jeff Meininger Have a look at the MouseScaling default. dwrite NeXT1 MouseScaling "5 2 2 3 6 4 10 5 15 6 22" The syntax for the value of the MouseScaling is: <number_of_entries> { <mouse_distance> <pointer_distance> } For a fast linear response, I would use: dwrite NeXT1 MouseScaling "1 1 10" You have to logout/login to enforce the setting. __Pascal Bourguignon__
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 23:35:08 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.1050fbb0472b07c898968b@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> <6s6rof$61u$1@shell17.ba.best.com> In article <6s6rof$61u$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, jbuck@best.com says... > Curt Sampson <cjs@ascetic.portal.ca> wrote: > > If I > >include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line > >program I wrote, > > then you have created a derivative work. If you don't like the rules, > don't use the code. That's silly. "Derived" implies "is the basis of". Including code that redraws a window is for example not the basis of the entire operating system. Adding a drop of proprietary water to a bottle of wine doesn't make the wine derived from the drop of water, it's negligible. The problem with definitions is that they're usually created by extremists who wouldn't know how to deal with anything in between if their life depended on it. Tony - Why all the hoopla about crappy code anyway?
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From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35e6ecad.0@news.pronet.it> Control: cancel <35e6ecad.0@news.pronet.it> Date: 29 Aug 1998 12:00:30 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35e6ecad.0@news.pronet.it> Sender: email@address.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <wsn3eagp8bs.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <m2r9y1gt9g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <slrn6udtkc.gb7.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:15:35 GMT mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > I'm sorry but you seem to be taking more meaning from my post than > I meant to imply. I didn't intend to cast this in any sort of GPL > vs. BSD advocacy light. All I was trying to say was that, to a certain > degree, the GPL is a political tool, and that I'm turned off by the > politicization (not sure if that's a word... :) of free software. > I'd be turned off by it even if I agreed with the politics. It was originally a political idea (as an explicit formulation; it existed as a default unremarkable state before that), so it would be more accurate to point to the *de*politicization initiated recently. I'd also have to say that software licenses do have political consequences. Not talking about them doesn't make them go away. I'd rather have an open dialog personally. Nonetheless if you'd rather not discuss the issues you're welcome not to. :-) Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: mawarkus@t-online.de (Matthias Warkus) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: 28 Aug 1998 11:03:50 GMT Organization: Royal Space Navy / Question Mark Software Message-ID: <6s62qm$shk$1@news00.btx.dtag.de> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Johnson schrieb: > > Graham Briggs wrote in message ... > >On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Paul Vigay wrote: > >All GUI's have their merits and downfalls. Some look ugly but are > >responsive, some look nice and aren't responsive, some look ugly and are > >unresponsive (Windows) some look lovely but you need to install several > >new libraries to use them (MUI for Amiga, KDE for Linux etc). > > Probably shouldn't say this in the Mac newsgroup, but I have always thought > the Mac OS was one of the ugliest simply because of its two-dimensional > look. The Mac's ridiculous oval for a button which inverts was horrid! At > least Windows introduced 3D pushbuttons in 3.0, follow by all 3D stuff in > 95. Interesting that all the fancy GUIs seem to go all flat again with the new stylish HTML look (coolbars and everything). > I have to give Apple credit for finally fixing it in OS8, though. It's > finally looking pretty slick. (Did you hear me, Mac fanatics? I said I think > it looks nice now. Put away the flame throwers....) > > All GUI's evolve over time. Compare Windows 3.1's Control Panel icon with > that in 3.0. A definite improvement. Compare Win95's folder icon with that > in 3.1's File Manager. And OS/2's icons used some of the ugliest colors an > boring designs ever. I think some of this was cleaned up in Warp 3 and 4. > > And lest ye think that I believe Windows is the be-all and end-all of GUI's, > I will gladly stand up and say that NeXTstep has the most incredible icons > out there. Since Rhapsody is based on NeXT, Mac OS X could very well end up > being one of the best looking OS's out there. What we really need is a GUI that looks like a wall where buttons do look like buttons (not st00pid icons ;-) and where drop targets look like sinks or holes, where handles look like handles etc. Enlightenment's default style gives some of this satisfying "materiality" to the GUI. mawa -- mailto:mawa@iname.com | http://www.angelfire.com/ny/mawaspace/ | 42 Get a Cold Feet Experience... Get Acme Frob Coil Oil! | Barf now... -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT/U d-(--) s:- a--- C++(++++)>$ P+(--) L++>++++>$ E++>+++ W++(-) N++ o? K w---(+) >M+ V-- PS+(++) PE(-)(--) Y+>++ >PGP++ t+(---)@ 5>+ X-@ >R+++@ tv(+) b+++(++++)>$ >DI+ D(--)(---) G++ e@(*)>++++ h! !y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fj.sys.next,fr.comp.sys.next,japan.comp.next Subject: DEEPSPACE EMAIL PROBLEMS From: sales@deepspacetech.com (DeepSpace Technologies) Organization: DeepSpace Technologies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <p%zF1.45$fK.802326@news.abs.net> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:27:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:27:17 EDT We are curently moving our email and website to a new internet provider and have been experiencing loss of email since Monday August 24th. If you have not receive a response to email since then please call us. Our email and website should be functioning without problems by Tuesday September 1. We appologize for any inconvenience this may cause. -- DeepSpace Technologies 7311 Grove Rd. Suite A-1 Frederick, MD 21701 Phone: 301-663-3033 Fax : 301-620-9634 <http://www.deepspacetech.com>
From: mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk (Mark Wooding) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 28 Aug 1998 14:15:17 GMT Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre Message-ID: <slrn6uderl.nrt.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> Curt Sampson <cjs@ascetic.portal.ca> wrote: > Right. However, the GPL goes far beyond derived versions. If I > include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line > program I wrote, I have to give away the entire ten thousand lines > of source code. Does that seem fair to you? How about asking the author of the software, or a representative of the team? I'd certainly not object to giving anyone permission to use (specified) small quantities of my code in any software: even though I like the GPL and agree with its political motivations, I can't be bothered to be that petty over small bits of code. I suspect that other authors of GPL software would be similarly amenable. (Not Klaus, though, I'd guess. ;-) ) -- [mdw]
From: moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 28 Aug 1998 09:00:36 -0600 Organization: The Children's Hospital of Denver Sender: is001652@nasrullah.tchden.org Message-ID: <yq34suxnobv.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > > No GNU is good GNU. A dumb ass, communistic, shortsighted, dweeb, penny > wise/pound foolish, koolaid drunk inspired, fungus, insipid mentality borne > out by shmo's who think they are entitled free stuff. This and Mengele. Did a wildebeast step on your dog? > > If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give you something > only if you promise to give something back. The former tends to work out > better in practice. Nothing true or fine in the materialistic/communist (in > the worst most failed sense) GNU philosophy. GPL is a form of quid pro quo, dragging in the over-used hot word communist is inappropriate. "You get mine, I get yours" is a form of economic barter older than the capitalist/communist terminology. The idealistic: > If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Is great, too. I happen to prefer the more pragmatic GPL approach. -- Louis
From: "Ryan Drake" <rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:20:30 -0400 Organization: Systemes Electroniques Matrox ltee Message-ID: <6s6ec7$b45@bugsbunny.matrox.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> Curt Sampson wrote in message <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca>... >Right. However, the GPL goes far beyond derived versions. If I >include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line >program I wrote, I have to give away the entire ten thousand lines >of source code. Does that seem fair to you? If you were the author of those hundred lines you would probably consider it fair. If you don't want to distribute the source code to a program, don't use GPL'ed code in it. I don't think that's very unreasonable. -- Please remove the no.spam from my email address if relpying by email. Any opinions stated above are MINE and not my employer's.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35e8578b.5@195.70.96.56> Control: cancel <35e8578b.5@195.70.96.56> Date: 29 Aug 1998 19:46:47 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35e8578b.5@195.70.96.56> Sender: ypyfgv@hotmail.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <wsn4suwp8n9.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <SCOTT.98Aug28083014@slave.doubleu.com> <6s6pth$uc$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 07:08:42 GMT jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) writes: > RMS has the right to free speech. Ironically, many college > students in the US think that free speech means that anything they > say must be approved of. If I make a statement and someone says I'm > a racist because of the statement, the typical college student > thinks "The politically correct people are taking my free speech > rights away!". Not at all: people have the right to call you names > if they disapprove of your actions or speech. This is not force or > coercion. You may speak, and they may speak back. Similarly, RMS > saying all software should be free is just an opinion. You may have > a different opinion. You may still find it useful to collaborate > with RMS in areas of common interest (like improving gcc). Yes! Well said. I just can't comprehend it when people talk about a fairly rational argument posted to Usenet as "forcing" them to do something. It's like they are somehow prohibited from acting if they don't have 100% of the population stroking their self-esteem. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 30 Aug 1998 10:41:57 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6q9b$1u7$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 1998 08:42:01 GMT jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) writes: > John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: > > >no strings attatched. True PD. What pisses me off is that the > >GNU idiocy would have you believe they are in the latter catagory > >when they are far from it. They take consideration for your access > >and use of their code. > > Access and use are completely unrestricted. Only distribution and > modification are restricted. Modification is not restricted, sorry. The *only* thing the GPL regulates is distribution (and the distribution of modified versions has to adhere to the same rules as the distribution of unmodified versions). -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 29 Aug 1998 17:38:03 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6s9vsb$4ts$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net> In article <MPG.104f7c405f7092b8989686@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Art <Artemis@soon.to.be> wrote: >In article <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net>, pgunn01@ibm.net says... >> I still feel obliged to point >> out that the GNU project certainly doesn't seem to be failing >> in practice. > >Bottom line: Don't come to me expecting to be hired if you are a GPLer. >We've made it a grounds for dismissal. What's a GPLer? Someone who uses GPL'd tools or someone who includes GPL'd code in their work? The former will only save you money. The latter - well, you are probably right... Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Samuel Penn <sam@bifrost.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:58:42 +0100 Organization: Somewhere else in Aldershot Sender: Samuel Penn <sam@bifrost.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <487D4D6FFD%sam@bifrost.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> In message <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> "Jeff Johnson" <jajohnson@dmenet.com> wrote: > Number two, I don't think dialogs should be resizable, with the exception of > perhaps a More>> button. Dialogs pop up for a specific purpose. The user > shouldn't be able to "play" with them. I run MS NT with a 21" monitor at 1600x1200. Having a file dialog pop up in its fixed size, when trying to view lots of files, is _very_ annoying. The drop down menus which limit themselves to ~4 lines in height despite having dozens of entries are just as bad. -- Be seeing you, Sam.
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net> <6s6rd9$4vk$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86n28nogze.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6sa0ni$50j$1@Mercury.mcs.net> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 30 Aug 1998 18:35:37 +0200 Message-ID: <86hfyuo2au.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: | The individual "granting the exception" (Linus) has AFAIK no legal | right to do so. I would be very, very careful in relying on this | exception. If Linus had required copyright disclaimers like the FSF | does, he probably could have done this by re-licensing the source | under a non-GPL copyright with this change; however, AFAIK, he | doesn't. * Leslie Mikesell | The "exception" for modules is not really a statement that the GPL | does not apply to the code in this case but is instead a definition | of the linkage between modules and the rest of the kernel that | asserts that the combination is not a 'derived work' as it would | be in a monolithic kernel. As such it doesn't require any disclaimers | from other GPL authors. The legality of this interpretation is | still untested, but I don't see how anyone can deny that Linus is | an expert in this particular field. I would not go to Linus for legal counsel in a copyright case; why would I trust him to talk about what is/isn't a derived work? Another issue is that, if I've understood the precendents correctly, it is not allowed to claim copyright on a formal interface. You are allowed to clone an interface, and you are allowed to write to an interface without that influencing the copyright on the code that use the interface. I don't know how formal the interface has to be for this to be true; the interface an LKM use is very fuzzy, and I don't see writing something as an LKM as being very different from compiling the same code into the monolithic kernel and distributing only the object code for the code in question. In other words, I believe the statement doesn't say much, and that you'd have to investigate the issues either way, but probably would be able to distribute some types of code without being influenced by the GPL. It is at least pretty clear that Linus' declaration give you no firmer footing than you would have otherwise. Eivind.
Message-ID: <35E8C6D1.217AE10E@spam_mediaone.net> From: Ryan Drake <stiletto_no@spam_mediaone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:32:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:32:36 EDT Decklin Foster wrote: > Software under *any* license will only be availible if somebody is > interested in distributing it. In this case, the GPL just prevents > source and object code from being treated and distributed > differently. This is absolutely necessary if you want people to have > any real freedom to use your software. Exactly. "If it's not source, it's not software." Just IMHO, of course...
Subject: Re: NEXTSTEP 3.3 mouse behaviour guts Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc References: <6s6pkv$2ch$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <6s8gub$27c$1@news.imaginet.fr> In-Reply-To: <6s8gub$27c$1@news.imaginet.fr> From: Paul Buckley<pb141@columbiaNOBODYHOME.edu> Message-ID: <K20G1.5$j84.30087@news14.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:22:18 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 23:22:18 GMT On 08/29/98, Pascal Bourguignon wrote: >jeffm@boxybutgood.com (Jeff Meininger) wrote: >>Is there a way to have non-scaled mouse response, where your cursor >>moves a distance directly proportional to the distance you moved >>your mouse? This seems to be the case for the slowest setting under >>the preferences panel, but it is not fast enough for my taste. From >>what I understand, I need to mess with some very internal NEXTSTEP >>voodoo to accomplish this. GKMouseScaler doesn't do exactly what I want >>because a flat line of a fast enough speed makes the cursor "jumpy"... I >>just want it faster. Can anyone help me out with this problem? >> >>Thanks >>-Jeff Meininger > > >Have a look at the MouseScaling default. > >dwrite NeXT1 MouseScaling "5 2 2 3 6 4 10 5 15 6 22" > >The syntax for the value of the MouseScaling is: > <number_of_entries> { <mouse_distance> <pointer_distance> } > >For a fast linear response, I would use: > >dwrite NeXT1 MouseScaling "1 1 10" > >You have to logout/login to enforce the setting. > >__Pascal Bourguignon__ > > > Way back when, Scott Hess wrote a graphical utility for setting these defaults: Max.app. I don't recall seeing it on the archives so I put a copy at http://www.columbia.edu/~pb141
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <35e8f88a.0@mithril.niia.net> Control: cancel <35e8f88a.0@mithril.niia.net> Date: 30 Aug 1998 11:08:23 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.35e8f88a.0@mithril.niia.net> Sender: pghrgipnme@somethingfunny.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 30 Aug 1998 05:33:30 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.1052a149a6e25ce698968e@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> <6s6rof$61u$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <MPG.1050fbb0472b07c898968b@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <wsn67fcpdvd.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> In article <wsn67fcpdvd.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>, hp@pobox.com says... > Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > > > > That's silly. "Derived" implies "is the basis of". Including code that > > redraws a window is for example not the basis of the entire operating > > system. Adding a drop of proprietary water to a bottle of wine doesn't > > make the wine derived from the drop of water, it's negligible. The > > problem with definitions is that they're usually created by extremists > > who wouldn't know how to deal with anything in between if their life > > depended on it. > > > > Bzzzt. "Derived" is defined by legal precedent and copyright law, not > the GPL. This definition was created by congress and the courts. (I > guess you could call them extremists but...) > > There is an imprecisely defined amount of code that's considered > negligible and does not create a derived work; this is "fair use" and > also allows you to quote from books, etc. It's a very small amount of > code, probably not a useful amount. > > But it's all defined by the law, not the GPL. Who cares who defined it. It's wrong. Time to change it. Such generality with obvious faults is a work in progress and should be null and void. Oh yeah, this is the U.S. where the principle philosophy is lying, I forgot. Tony
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 28 Aug 1998 19:16:23 +0200 Message-ID: <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * John Kheit | What further pisses me off is the hypocracy with GNU people in that | they claim stuff is free, but it's not, it's got some serious | strings attatch as you note below, yet they want credit for actually | giving stuff away for free when it comes with a sizable whammy | incumbrance. * Ryan Drake | I wouldnt say its much of an incumbrance... The only string attatched is | that when code is GPL'ed it is guaranteed to remain free. No. What you are guaranteed with the GPL is that nobody can legally distribute binaries derived from the code without also making available the sourcecode[1] for those binaries. This is _not_ "guarantee that the code will remain free" - the original code will remain free if somebody is interested in distributing it, and it will loose free availability if nobody is interested in distributing it. What the GPL guarantees is that anybody that make changes to the code will have to make _those changes_ freely available if they distribute binaries. This is quite different from what you state. There are people watching this debate that may use it to decide how they want to license things. We should try to give them as good information as possible. | This is important to some people. If you don't like it you don't | have to use GPL'ed code. Sure. And it is important to many people that their code be of as much use as possible; if you don't like this, don't use BSD-licenced code ;-) Eivind.
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 30 Aug 1998 10:52:00 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2n28m3l8v.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <m2r9y1gt9g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s752a$8eh$1@client3.news.psi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 1998 08:52:10 GMT abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes: > David Kastrup (dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de) wrote on > MDCCCXXIII September MCMXCIII in <URL: news:m2r9y1gt9g.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>: > ++ > ++ As to the attitudes of Linus: he has explicitly and on purpose put the > ++ Linux kernel under the GPL and says that this has probably the single > ++ most important thing he did for Linux development. > > He would probably say the same had he but Linux under the BSD license, > the AL or any other license that allow free use and modifications. I am not quite sure. At least the basic Linux kernel does not have proprietary versions cutting into the market of the free ones by offering non-disclosed functionality and bug-fixes. Considering that the original license Linus chose (kernels before 0.98 or so) has been a very rigid anti-commercial license, it would also probably have been improbable that he would switched from that license to the wide-open BSD license instead of the GPL. It would also perhaps not have drawn the amount of support from people not satisfied with BSDish approaches. As it stands, the current setting has lead to more people having serious operating systems with licensing they like available than before. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Rollin Weeks <Rollin.Weeks@mail1.dh.trw.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:39:13 -0700 Organization: TRW, Inc. Message-ID: <35E56181.B6251E3D@mail1.dh.trw.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6ruc03$h5p@grimer.diku.dk> <42963758@welcome.north.de> <6s0g5e$or3@grimer.diku.dk> <42963782@welcome.north.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sven Drieling wrote: > > Torben AEgidius Mogensen wrote on 26 Aug 1998 10:14:38 +0200 in > comp.sys.amiga.misc about Re: Histroy of the GUI?: > > Hi, > > TAM> > Engelbart > TAM> > TAM> It is "Englebart". Look it up. > > I did it's "Engelbart" or we are talking about different > persons -> http://www.bootstrap.org/org.htm#Douglas > The biographies and other references correctly show that Engelbart was an amazimg man. His two major contributions that people in the computer world will remember were the mouse and the hyperlink. Both were used in his NLS/Augment system. In the late 70s I had a chance to visit his company in Cupertino, CA, after he left SRI. His mouse was an amazing device. It consisted of flat pieces of wood fastened in the back and extended over micro- switches in the middle. The sticks were very flexible, and by pressing down on the front ends, you could activate the micro-switches (very similar in concept to current mouse technology). Computers of that day didn't have much horsepower, and video displays had just come into use. Terminals that used displays were called "glass teletypes" The IBM 370/145 was in the category of a "small mainframe" and had a clock speed probably comparable to an early IBM PC/AT. With this state of tachnology and the small amounts of memory, graphics processing was not practical on a host machine. It was usually done on dedicated graphics stations (Vector Graphics, RamTek, Evans and Sutherland, etc.). So NLS did not use direct cursor addressing with mouse clicks. Rather you moved the keyboard cursor to where you wanted to perform some text string operation and then clicked on one of the mouse buttons. But his people got really good at that and could go through word processing on NLS quite fast. While Englebart was at SRI, I think he supported the ARPANET Network Information Center (NIC), and NLS was used in maintaining RFCs relating to low-level network protocols and other aspects of the ARPANET. Imagine, hyperlinks were a great idea. And he did it all without the benefit of URLs or HTML! Regards, Rollin Weeks
From: "Mark Harrison" <markh@usai.asiainfo.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:55:00 +0800 Organization: gte.net Message-ID: <6scn1h$p5j$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <EyB93x.Lvw@T-FCN.Net> Maury Markowitz wrote in message ... >In <m2soijg1n6.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> David Kastrup >wrote: >> Quite so. The first IBM PCs were delivered including completely free >> building diagrams, and even assembly listings of the BIOS. > > They did? We had several at U, I don't remember either of these. You had to buy the Technical Reference Manual, which (IIRC) was about $100. Mark. markh@usai.asiainfo.com Mark Harrison at AsiaInfo Computer Networks, Beijing, China
Sender: decklin@kiteless.dyn.ml.org Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> From: Decklin Foster <decklin@base.org> Message-ID: <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> Date: 29 Aug 1998 20:14:09 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:14:52 EDT Organization: NETPLEX Internet Services - http://www.ntplx.net/ Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > This is _not_ "guarantee that the code will remain free" - the > original code will remain free if somebody is interested in > distributing it, and it will loose free availability if nobody is > interested in distributing it. Software under *any* license will only be availible if somebody is interested in distributing it. In this case, the GPL just prevents source and object code from being treated and distributed differently. This is absolutely necessary if you want people to have any real freedom to use your software. -- please read: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/ "cry me a bayou/and i'm leaving..." -tricky
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: lynx Message-ID: <1998083022195200.SAA10046@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 30 Aug 1998 22:19:52 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <fqiG1.56$kv1.1307761@news.shore.net> ftp.peak.org/pub/next apps directory, I think or maybe web Maybe in with the Unix stuff. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 30 Aug 1998 22:23:08 GMT Organization: E.C.C. sa - Computer Consultants Message-ID: <6scjcc$n93$1@justus.ecc.lu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>, Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: >| just not to the fruit of other people's labor, to which they are >| given a limited right. This subtlety is really not that difficult >| to understand. It is odd that so many people seem to have trouble >| with it. > > And I think it is strange that people can't see the concept of added > value. However, this entire area is difficult to handle - I easily > see how people can feel differently ("I'm spending all this work and > giving it away, and now he only want to do a small part and then sell > the result - NO FAIR!"), but the fact is that the added value has > percieved worth to the customers that is larger than what they pay for > it, and that the original is written down to almost zero commercial > (as opposed to utilitarian) value at the moment it is published. That is true - quite often a little addition can make the difference between an unnatractive program and a bestseller. In this case (ie some spotting a business opportunity), why not simply contact the original author, and come to some arrangement? I'd venture that if the original contribution is important, common decency dictates that the original author be included in the proceeds. The GPL does only interfere when there are many authors involved (and I guess that the chance of spotting a huge opportunity would be low if many people have already worked on the program). To me, there's little reason to argue: if the GPL'd contribution is minor, it can be rewritten, and if the GPL'd program is a substantial part of the new/enhanced product, the original author(s) should benefit from the wealth generated by the product. This is not uncommon; many people have the skill to make a product, whilst lacking the skill to package and market it. There are many stories of artists or craftspeople being 'discovered' by marketers :-) > For me, the most important aspect is that the code I publish is useful > to people, and I know that no matter what, people will only enhance it > if enhancing it is useful to them. Most often the people that enhance > and sell BSD-licensed software would not do the same enhancements if > the code was GPL'ed, as it wouldn't be possible for them to get a > return on investement. Often, they contribute many of the changes > they do back - and thus I end up with a better result for free > software, too. But you'd still feel that if someone made a lot of dough out of your work (like in the situation above), it would be decent if he'd cut you in, wouldn't you? -- Stefaan -- PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/) ___________________________________________________________________ Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. -- Saint-Exupéry
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 30 Aug 1998 18:11:55 +0200 Message-ID: <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Decklin Foster | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | | > This is _not_ "guarantee that the code will remain free" - the | > original code will remain free if somebody is interested in | > distributing it, and it will loose free availability if nobody is | > interested in distributing it. | | Software under *any* license will only be availible if somebody is | interested in distributing it. In this case, the GPL just prevents | source and object code from being treated and distributed | differently. This is wrong. It prohibit any further limitiations being placed on re-distribution of changes (actually, "derived works", which is fairly vague). It does NOT deal only with the original software, and it does NOT only say that source and object code has to be distributed equally. | This is absolutely necessary if you want people to have any real | freedom to use your software. I'm usually giving people as close to full freedom in using my software as I'm able - I'm just not forcing anybody else to do the same for anything _they_ write. Saying that it is "absolutely necessary" that I remove more freedom from them to give them "any real freedom to use my software" is just bullshit. The difference between the GPL and BSD-style licenses is a tradeoff between which freedoms you want whom to have - the GPL guarantees certain freedoms to users of derived works by removing certain freedoms from the creator of the derived works. A large number of people (me included) believe that granting the creator of derived works the full right to the fruit of their labour is good. We are the people that prefer to license under a BSD-style license or freer. Another large number of people (you included, it seems) believe that the rights of people to do as they please with their own changes is bad. They believe that because the person doing the change have had their work to base from, the modifier should be stopped from certain ways of exploiting the modifier's own work. In essence, if the modifier give a copy of his/her work to anybody, (s)he should be forced to give away all ownership of it. In consequence, they prefer to license their original work under the GPL. Portraying either GPL-users or BSD-license-users as evil, hoarding people is very wrong - both of them contribute to the community. The BSD-users believe in giving almost complete rights to everybody they give the software to - and most of us believe that we get enough back from the sum of people that create 'closed' derived works that it is an overall advantage anyway. The GPL-users don't believe in letting people 'exploit' their work - fine. They're distributing their software with more strings attached, but it is still often useful. Eivind.
From: ejv108@psu.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: really messed up NeXt on boot Date: 31 Aug 1998 02:53:30 GMT Organization: Penn State University Sender: ejv108@0.0.0.0 Message-ID: <6sd37a$s32@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <6scgq6$16b4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <35E9EA79.C080F009@forsee.tcp.co.uk> I dont have a installation CD
From: ejv108@psu.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: really messed up NeXt on boot Date: 30 Aug 1998 21:39:18 GMT Organization: Penn State University Sender: ejv108@0.0.0.0 Message-ID: <6scgq6$16b4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> I accidentaly did a chmod 666 -R * command. Now since chmod is not executable I cant even set any permissions back, i cant boot up into NS 3.2. The only thing that i can do is do a single user boot. From there is there anything that i can do to save my system...or do I have to re-install NS3.2-of which I dont have! please email ejv108@psu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? From: qed@apexmail.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:36:25 +0930 Message-ID: <1demtmq.1jbb81w1vbpfv0N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> Organization: Quantum Education Developments Jeff Johnson <jajohnson@dmenet.com> wrote: > Paul Miller wrote in message <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com>... > >How many more years do you think it'll take them to "invent" resizable > >dialogs? > ... I don't think dialogs should be resizable, with the > exception of perhaps a More>> button. Dialogs pop up for a specific > purpose. The user shouldn't be able to "play" with them. I'm in the Dialogs Are Bad camp, myself. Way too many of them in today's interfaces for my taste - they often reek of an "I wrote this goddam program so you're going to work through it the way I wrote it to be worked through" approach. I did see a hack for Mac OS where you could stretch dialogs, but it didn't work terribly well. Another hack let you move some, and an even earlier hack let you un-modalise some modal dialogs. Geoffrey -- ------------------------qed-@-apexmail.com------------------------ -- What I say may - or may not be - the truth. "I think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise."
From: Marcel Volkerts <VOLKERTS@KVI.NL> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fj.sys.next,fr.comp.sys.next,japan.comp.next Subject: Re: FS:TURBO CUBE DIMENSION SYSTEMS Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:46:31 +0100 Organization: KVI Message-ID: <35EA7F07.233128B5@KVI.NL> References: <nYzF1.44$fK.802326@news.abs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Just out of curiosity: are these normale prices in the US? I would consider a 1000 dollars for a system like this already outrageous. Bye, Marcel DeepSpace Technologies wrote: > > We have just received a shipment of Next equipment. We have approximately 6 > Turbo Cube Dimension Systems forsale. Configs are as follows: > > Turbo Cube Dimension Systems(33mhz) > 32/32 540mb HD > 17" Sony Trinitron Monitor > ADB or NON ADB(YOUR CHOICE) > Keyboard > Mouse > Sound Box > Cables > Release 3.3 user installed on the HD only. > > Price each $1995.00 > > Get your collection before it's too late!!! > > Respond by phone or fax until Tuesday 9/1. We are changing internet providers > and may not get your email!!! > -- > DeepSpace Technologies > 7311 Grove Rd. > Suite A-1 > Frederick, MD 21701 > Phone: 301-663-3033 > Fax : 301-620-9634 > <http://www.deepspacetech.com>
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 31 Aug 1998 11:24:13 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m24sut33nm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 1998 09:24:26 GMT Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > Portraying either GPL-users or BSD-license-users as evil, hoarding > people is very wrong - both of them contribute to the community. We are talking of the people here that are using the license on their work, namely the creators of something. Those that use a BSDish license contribute to a more broadly defined audience. I would not necessarily call this a community because it is quite allowed for members of this "community" not to cooperate at all. Those that use the GPL limit their contribution to a somewhat stricter defined community, where the community consists of those people agreeing to play by the same rules. Actually, the only people excluded are those that want to redistribute without playing by the same rules, and these is actually a rather small body of people. So even here "community" is very vague. It gets somewhat better defined if you are talking about programmers and redistributors. In the BSD world, the programmers using the BSD license are givers, whereas in the GPL setting the programmers are sharers. As both scenarios have a lot of givers, every programmer profits a lot more than he produces. So in practice, the differences may be as small as to be mainly important for religious wars (which is what they indeed seem to fuel rather reliably). Still, some people might like to make use of the difference the various licenses allow them to express. > The BSD-users believe in giving almost complete rights to everybody > they give the software to - and most of us believe that we get > enough back from the sum of people that create 'closed' derived > works that it is an overall advantage anyway. The GPL-users don't > believe in letting people 'exploit' their work - fine. They're > distributing their software with more strings attached, but it is > still often useful. With "users" in this context again meaning the creators of some work. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: rfell@fell.shore.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: lynx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <fqiG1.56$kv1.1307761@news.shore.net> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:16:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:16:11 EDT Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) Where or where can i find lynx for nextstep 3.3? Thanks, Dick Fell
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: really messed up NeXt on boot Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:12:41 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <35E9EA79.C080F009@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <6scgq6$16b4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can you boot from CD and run chmod from CD to change the HD back. How does the 'sh', 'csh' run in single user, if it is not executable? ejv108@psu.edu wrote: > > I accidentaly did a chmod 666 -R * command. Now since chmod is not > executable I cant even set any permissions back, i cant boot up into NS > 3.2. The only thing that i can do is do a single user boot. From there > is there anything that i can do to save my system...or do I have to > re-install NS3.2-of which I dont have! > > please email ejv108@psu.edu -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
Sender: russell@coulee.tdb.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> From: Russell Senior <seniorr@teleport.com> Message-ID: <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Organization: As much as seems appropriate Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:03:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:03:40 PDT >>>>> "Eivind" == Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: Eivind> The difference between the GPL and BSD-style licenses is a Eivind> tradeoff between which freedoms you want whom to have - the Eivind> GPL guarantees certain freedoms to users of derived works by Eivind> removing certain freedoms from the creator of the derived Eivind> works. Eivind> A large number of people (me included) believe that granting Eivind> the creator of derived works the full right to the fruit of Eivind> their labour is good. We are the people that prefer to Eivind> license under a BSD-style license or freer. I think you are wrong in implying that the GPL denies the creator of a derived work the full right to the fruit of their labor. The GPL denies the creator of a derived work the full right to the fruit of the combined labor. The creator of the derived work *does* retain the full right to the fruit of *their own* labor, just not to the fruit of other people's labor, to which they are given a limited right. This subtlety is really not that difficult to understand. It is odd that so many people seem to have trouble with it. -- Russell Senior seniorr@teleport.com
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 30 Aug 1998 21:58:25 +0200 Message-ID: <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Russell Senior | >>>>> "Eivind" == Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | | Eivind> The difference between the GPL and BSD-style licenses is a | Eivind> tradeoff between which freedoms you want whom to have - the | Eivind> GPL guarantees certain freedoms to users of derived works by | Eivind> removing certain freedoms from the creator of the derived | Eivind> works. | | Eivind> A large number of people (me included) believe that granting | Eivind> the creator of derived works the full right to the fruit of | Eivind> their labour is good. We are the people that prefer to | Eivind> license under a BSD-style license or freer. | | I think you are wrong in implying that the GPL denies the creator of a | derived work the full right to the fruit of their labor. The GPL | denies the creator of a derived work the full right to the fruit of | the combined labor. The creator of the derived work *does* retain the | full right to the fruit of *their own* labor, Not the labor they put into a GPLed program - they have limited rights to that. If you wanted to give them full rights to that, but still require distribution of source, you should require distribution of the original source. The difference between the original and the one they created are the fruits of _their_ labour. (I assume we can agree to the last sentence, at least). The fact is that if people want to pay for a binary distribution with modifications (and without source), then there have added value to the original, and it is this added value people pay for. Another way to license would be to require them to inform that there is a free version available; this make sure that people that elect to pay for their modified version know that they are paying only for the added value. The fact that adding value might be less work than creating the original that the value is added to does not IMO subtract from the fact that they are adding value. | just not to the fruit of other people's labor, to which they are | given a limited right. This subtlety is really not that difficult | to understand. It is odd that so many people seem to have trouble | with it. And I think it is strange that people can't see the concept of added value. However, this entire area is difficult to handle - I easily see how people can feel differently ("I'm spending all this work and giving it away, and now he only want to do a small part and then sell the result - NO FAIR!"), but the fact is that the added value has percieved worth to the customers that is larger than what they pay for it, and that the original is written down to almost zero commercial (as opposed to utilitarian) value at the moment it is published. For me, the most important aspect is that the code I publish is useful to people, and I know that no matter what, people will only enhance it if enhancing it is useful to them. Most often the people that enhance and sell BSD-licensed software would not do the same enhancements if the code was GPL'ed, as it wouldn't be possible for them to get a return on investement. Often, they contribute many of the changes they do back - and thus I end up with a better result for free software, too. Eivind.
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6scjcc$n93$1@justus.ecc.lu> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 31 Aug 1998 02:38:02 +0200 Message-ID: <86af4mnfyt.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Stefaan A. Eeckels | That is true - quite often a little addition can make the difference | between an unnatractive program and a bestseller. In this case (ie | some spotting a business opportunity), why not simply contact the | original author, and come to some arrangement? I'd venture that if | the original contribution is important, common decency dictates | that the original author be included in the proceeds. The GPL | does only interfere when there are many authors involved (and I guess | that the chance of spotting a huge opportunity would be low if | many people have already worked on the program). Think of e.g. a kernel. I've had a couple of cases where I've used a specially adapted FreeBSD kernel to do a product; this made it possible to do certain products within the available hardware budget (where a userspace solution have been too slow). I wouldn't have been able to do the same thing with Linux or another GPLed kernel (and speaking of LKMs here won't help you - we would not have taken the legal risk this would have involved, especially for a product where we were hoping to grab an international market. The risk of copyright complications would have been way too high.) | > For me, the most important aspect is that the code I publish is useful | > to people, and I know that no matter what, people will only enhance it | > if enhancing it is useful to them. Most often the people that enhance | > and sell BSD-licensed software would not do the same enhancements if | > the code was GPL'ed, as it wouldn't be possible for them to get a | > return on investement. Often, they contribute many of the changes | > they do back - and thus I end up with a better result for free | > software, too. | | But you'd still feel that if someone made a lot of dough out | of your work (like in the situation above), it would be decent | if he'd cut you in, wouldn't you? Sure, but I don't feel it as essensial. I know of only one case where this could directly have happened, and when I found out they were not using the PD code, my own reaction was one of sorrow - "Why didn't they do their research beforehand, instead of repeating that amount of work for no gain?" The case where an "exploitable" license if of interest is mostly in startups; and usually these are struggling to survive anyway. If they can and want to pay, fine, but if they can't or won't it's OK - I've already mentally written down the financial value of the code to zero by releasing it Open Source. Eivind.
From: p99dreyf@criens.u-psud.fr (Emmanuel Dreyfus) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 01:34:18 +0200 Organization: ImagiNET Message-ID: <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: > No, this is wrong. You can sell GPL'd software freely. The same with > BSD software. The main difference is that with the GPL you also have > to supply the source code, and you also have to allow all your buyers > to create derivative works and sell them, etc. And is a buyer allowed to modify it and give it for free? -- Emmanuel Dreyfus. Sryvpvgngvbaf! Ibhf irarm qr creqer ibger grzcf n qrpbqre har fvtangher fnaf vagrerg. emmanuel.dreyfus@ic.ac.uk p99dreyf@criens.u-psud.fr
From: bill schaub <talon@hancock.nospam.k12.mo.us> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 06:58:49 -0500 Organization: Varner Technologies, Inc. Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980831065558.9843A-100000@hancock.k12.mo.us> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <slrn6u8bpa.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <6s54mt$h2s@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <6s54mt$h2s@lace.colorado.edu> well for oen thign see if you cant order a computer from gateway without an os it cant hurt to call them up and ask if this can be an option this woudl save you money and let you insatall freebsd you wotn have as much selection of hardwhare but im sure freebsd can handle most hardwhare out there i have yet to run into major problems with hardwhare suport and i still use the 2.2.1 cd set! i hope this helps
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops Subject: cmsg cancel <6se52n$4t8$156@nclient3-gui.server.virgin.net> Control: cancel <6se52n$4t8$156@nclient3-gui.server.virgin.net> Date: 31 Aug 1998 12:35:06 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6se52n$4t8$156@nclient3-gui.server.virgin.net> Sender: ezemfn@hotmail.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 31 Aug 1998 15:57:45 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2lno51cfa.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <slrn6u8bpa.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <6s54mt$h2s@lace.colorado.edu> <Pine.BSF.3.95q.980831065558.9843A-100000@hancock.k12.mo.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 1998 13:57:46 GMT bill schaub <talon@hancock.nospam.k12.mo.us> writes: > well for oen thign see if you cant order a computer from gateway without > an os it cant hurt to call them up and ask if this can be an option this > woudl save you money and let you insatall freebsd you wotn have as much > selection of hardwhare but im sure freebsd can handle most hardwhare out > there i have yet to run into major problems with hardwhare suport and i > still use the 2.2.1 cd set! i hope this helps Does it handle keyboards with a shift key and a backspace key? -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: really messed up NeXt on boot Date: 31 Aug 1998 15:34:16 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6sefpo$aos$3@news.spacelab.net> References: <6scgq6$16b4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> ejv108@psu.edu wrote: >I accidentaly did a chmod 666 -R * command. Now since chmod is not >executable I cant even set any permissions back, i cant boot up into NS >3.2. The only thing that i can do is do a single user boot. From there >is there anything that i can do to save my system...or do I have to >re-install NS3.2-of which I dont have! Without the execute bit, the shared libraries don't work, which means that almost every executable not staticly linked won't work either. Resinstalling is by far the best option, but you might be able to boot off a CD single-user, mount your disk (or boot with rootdev=XXX), and take a look at the permissions on the CD and fix things by hand. However, that process is so tedious that reinstalling is going to be quicker. If you don't have the CD, try hunting down either a 3.3 or a 4.2 disk instead, and upgrade.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+-------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 31 Aug 1998 01:27:13 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p54sutk9fy.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 1998 05:27:21 GMT To: p99dreyf@criens.u-psud.fr (Emmanuel Dreyfus) %% p99dreyf@criens.u-psud.fr (Emmanuel Dreyfus) writes: ed> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: >> No, this is wrong. You can sell GPL'd software freely. The same with >> BSD software. The main difference is that with the GPL you also have >> to supply the source code, and you also have to allow all your buyers >> to create derivative works and sell them, etc. ed> And is a buyer allowed to modify it and give it for free? Of course. Or they could _not_ modify it and give it for free. Or not modify it and sell it. They also, of course, have to provide the source code and allow anyone _they_ give it to to do the same thing. Remember: anyone you provide the software to gets exactly the same rights _you_ got when someone gave it to you. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 31 Aug 1998 11:26:02 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86u32ynqiy.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s6rka$5kc$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >| there were also other implementations for other OSes. Many of them >| had "free for research use only" licenses. The BSD code was the >| first really good implementation, but it was going to be developed >| regardless of license terms, since Uncle Sam was paying. > >Eh? I didn't say Uncle Sam wasn't paying. I said it was successfull >because it used a BSD-style license, not a GPL-style. It is certainly true that had a GPL-style license been used, then commercial vendors would have had to write their own implementations. >| And the commercial OS vendors fought TCP/IP for years. > >... but most often not by not including it, as it was available to >them for free (as the commercial OS vendors had a Unix license). Unix wasn't as dominant then: DEC wanted you to run VAX/VMS, etc. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: cheng@tofu.atmos.colostate.edu (Will Cheng) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: x-host command in NeXT machines Date: 31 Aug 1998 18:40:05 GMT Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Message-ID: <6seqm5$8uho@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Hi there, I was wondering if there is a "x-host" command on NeXT machines to display graphics of a remote machine. I know IBM uses this command, but I don't know if NeXT has this. I searched the /usr/local/bin directory and found no such command. Is there any way to download this command or equivalent from some ftp site? Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. Will
From: "Jeff Johnson" <jajohnson@dmenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:07:09 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Message-ID: <6sf04o$jkn$1@news5.ispnews.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> <1demtmq.1jbb81w1vbpfv0N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6sebto$2vp@handupme.avid.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 1998 20:13:12 GMT Paul Miller wrote in message <6sebto$2vp@handupme.avid.com>... >qed@apexmail.com (Geoffrey Peters) writes: > >I was thinking more in the "file browser dialog" area - I don't know about >most NT users but I find myself with more than 10 files in directories. Having >to scroll through the list (horizontall, now) with a scrollbar instead of >seeing all of the files at once (with a simple resizing of the dialog to >use more than just 10% of my screen) is REALLY aggravating. Okay, I can see where this would be a good candidate for allowing resizable dialogs. But not, for example, a message box. >Same problem with those comboboxes that have 20 entries but only show 4 >at once. Sheesh. Oh, but how about those with ONE visible entry? You know, the ones where the scroll bar is basically an up-down control. I want to SMACK the person who set those up.
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: x-host command in NeXT machines Date: 31 Aug 1998 20:18:07 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6sf0dv$jfe$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <6seqm5$8uho@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cheng@tofu.atmos.colostate.edu (Will Cheng) wrote: >I was wondering if there is a "x-host" command on >NeXT machines to display graphics of a remote machine. >I know IBM uses this command, but I don't know if >NeXT has this. You can use the -NXHost (or -NSHost) switch on the command line to remotely display to another NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP machine, much the way -display works under X Windows. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | standard disclaimer ---------------+-------------------+-------------------- "Microsoft: we make the easy almost impossible."
From: John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Bad References test - ignore Followup-To: poster Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:05:32 -0400 Organization: Interpath Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <GNKSA-badrefs.1998-08-31_0805@interpath.com> References: <goodref@fqdn.com> <bad ref@fqdn.com> <goodref2@fqdn.com>badnoAT.com> <goodref1@fqdn.com> <goodref2@fqdn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Yet Another NewsWatcher 3.1.4 Testing bad reference id's - 2nd from the left has a space, 4th from the left is missing the preceding space, the opening "<" and the "@". Both of these are fairly common, but at the very least the 2nd one should be deleted. It also has followups set to poster. (I know there are dedicated test groups, but this message [and the other one] are intended for some else, and his ISP seems to ignore the test groups). -- John Moreno
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:54:20 -0400 Organization: phenix@interpath.com Message-ID: <1den780.y3ysod10uxu8rN@roxboro0-054.dyn.interpath.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> ?'D1cB]L9V=\OS(\8S,5 Mail-Copies-To: nobody In comp.sys.next.misc Ryan Drake <rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com> wrote: > Tony wrote in message ... > >scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > >> I taking "a totalitarian system of government in which a single > >> authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the > >> professed aim of establishing a stateless society" to be the > >> definition. There are other options, but none of them have been put > >> into wide practice. [Specifically, definitions such as "a system in > >> which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed" > >> clearly have never occurred in real life.] > > > >Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. > >Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've > >reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. > >Or something similar. > > That's a pretty scary idea... What if someone makes a million a year just > in intrest from investments? Should they be banned from working? And > where should all the extra money left over that they didnt get to have go? It's probably not a good idea (think world's best heart surgeon and you have a bad ticker). Of course it does have a bright side - it'd put a limit on the number of copies of Windows that could be sold. > -- > Please remove the no.spam from my email address if relpying by email. > Any opinions stated above are MINE and not my employer's. Please - put a space after the two dashes for a proper sigdash. It's dash dash space on a line by itself. I know that OE doesn't support excluding sigs when replying, but other newsreaders do. -- John Moreno
From: John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: References Test - ignore Followup-To: alt.test Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:55:19 -0400 Organization: Interpath Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <GNKSA-122108-31_immeditate_percursor@interpath.com> References: <00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000@isp.com> <deletethis@phenix.com> <111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111@isp.com> <2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222@isp.com> <33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333@isp.com> <4444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444@isp.com> <5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555@isp.com> <6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666@isp.com> <7777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777777@isp.com> <88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888@isp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Yet Another NewsWatcher 3.1.4 This message provides the opportunity to test several things. 1) The "prior" id's are in the form <000...@isp>, the sequence is <0..>,<deletethis@phenix.com>, <1..> <2..>-<8>. The message id for this message is <9...>. If the reply has all of the id's with the numbers in them and the "deletethis" id then it fails 7c. 2) When you "Followup" to this message, it should show that the message is going to alt.test, instead of misc.test. You should be able to see that (by default) when viewing this message also. 3) When you "Reply by mail" the message should that it is going to "phenix@mail.interpath.com" instead of "phenix@interpath.com". And again you should see this by default in this message. This line let's you see what the newsreader does with unquoted long lines over 80 chars. > > This line let's you see what the newsreader does with quoted long lines over 80 chars. > > Does it allow rewrapping these lines? (I know there are dedicated test groups, but this message [and the other one] are intended for some else, and his ISP seems to ignore the test groups). -- John Moreno
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 03:09:17 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> wrote: > The purpose of the GPL is not to protect the author or subsequent > authors. It's to protect the user and the software community. You say > this yourself in the first passage I quoted - the GPL puts users and > developers on the same level with the same rights. What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition they are nothing but leeches on the work of others. If I make something, I can keep it all to myself and not let it out of my house. I'd get all the enjoyment of it and you'd get none. You have no right to it, morally or legally. If you were to try and take my work, you'd be a thief because you have nothing to do with it. If you got to use my work, you'd be nothing more than a user, a leech. You deserve no rights, you contribute nothing. You are worthless to the process of creation, unless you provide consideration/compensation. Users deserve nothing. Absolutely nothing. Putting them on the same level as creators is beyond moronic in any sense, moral, legal, or otherwise. It's obnoxious to think that anything need protect the rights of what in essence are users. The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any works made under it. Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. In other words, gnu software is far from free. Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest of the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. GNU puts on restrictions, rather hypocritically. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Mark Willey <willey@keymaster.etla.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Followup-To: alt.test Date: 1 Sep 1998 03:40:39 GMT Organization: ETLA Technical Message-ID: <6sfqbn$mij$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> In comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: : Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> wrote: :> The purpose of the GPL is not to protect the author or subsequent :> authors. It's to protect the user and the software community. You say :> this yourself in the first passage I quoted - the GPL puts users and :> developers on the same level with the same rights. : What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition they are nothing : but leeches on the work of others. If I make something, I can keep it all to : myself and not let it out of my house. I'd get all the enjoyment of it and : you'd get none. You have no right to it, morally or legally. If you were to Aright John, how about you apply that same logic to your USENET rants and keep it to your self? S I G H Ok, I think this thread has gone on long enough. Everyone, please shut up. ;-) Followups set appropriately. Mark
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 03:57:00 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10552db0bf008a81989691@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> In article <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com>, rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com says... > Tony wrote in message ... > > > >Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. > >Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've > >reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. > >Or something similar. > > That's a pretty scary idea... What if someone makes a million a year just in > intrest from investments? Should they be banned from working? And where > should all the extra money left over that they didnt get to have go? You work out the details ok? ;) Tony
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.test,alt.config,alt.test,microsoft.public.access.security,comp.sys.next.misc Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:49:16 -0400 Message-ID: <nFPML1YbW.Z9ww@iastate.edu> From: Matt Bruce <qb-announce@iastate.edu> Organization: Abacus vs. Computer Subject: cmsg rmgroup comp.sys.next.misc Control: rmgroup comp.sys.next.misc ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/pgpcontrol/README _kR1AOojdKg90fnQQ9NYZmEKSzE5Lly7fPUt4z8Rin0cXHcS6cY1VL5GsbEBHdic o_oYP2_Y8GHNTZCn_MM3yAaesksrFaNWYHMY_T45zk9_o1_e4AiCM1ySmOqQmwfB stPZ7jsY_iqpWRZSYtHz81RFmw6b5jloTmDjqEdUHEMlj3bXmHP25doEFNu_od0l aNi3vrmPOJN= =xy_c comp.sys.next.misc is widely considered a bogus newsgroup given that it passed its vote for removal by 144:44 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 29 Aug 1998. Please remove the group from your active file. Meow! Matt Bruce <qb-announce@iastate.edu>
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: really messed up NeXt on boot Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:24:39 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <35EAF877.7EE6B845@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <6scgq6$16b4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <35E9EA79.C080F009@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <6sd37a$s32@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you have a bootable floppy diskette, no that's not going to work. Can you borrow a installation CD? Why haven't you got one? ejv108@psu.edu wrote: > > I dont have a installation CD -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <EyJwxB.IJD@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Sender: cnews@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (C News Software) Organization: HCRC, University of Edinburgh References: <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:22:22 GMT In article <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> cjs@ascetic.portal.ca (Curt Sampson) writes: >Right. However, the GPL goes far beyond derived versions. If I >include a hundred lines of GPL'd source in a ten thousand line >program I wrote, I have to give away the entire ten thousand lines >of source code. Does that seem fair to you? Perfectly fair. If you don't like it, don't include those hundred lines. After all, it's only a hundred lines, isn't it? [Of course, you only have to give away the source code if you distribute the program at all.] -- Richard -- Because of all the junk e-mail I receive, all e-mail from .com sites is automatically sent to a file which I only rarely check. If you want to mail me from a .com site, please ensure my surname appears in the headers.
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 31 Aug 98 16:18:12 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> In-reply-to: Tony@ask.me's message of 30 Aug 1998 05:29:38 GMT In article <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: In article <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > What are you talking about? Ownership rights to my ideas are > only "transferred" when the corporation I'm contracting with > agrees to transfer money to my bank account. A perfectly > equitable situation, and involving no force at all. Face it man, employers have you by the balls once you sign the dotted line. You in effect give up rights to all your thoughts for that paycheck. You may say that you had the choice not to sign. I say though that that TYPE of practice should not be condoned and even abolished. This "type" of practice is the entire basis for our current system. Within our current system, abolishing this practice would effectively abolish the system. And, for all that many people theorize that other systems might work just as well, the system we are currently in is the only _remotely_ "proven" system. [By that, I merely mean that it works to a good approximation of "works", and does it in the "real world". There aren't many systems out there that have been tested against the "real world", and there are fewer who lasted any length of time.] Analogy: Woman needs money, allows herself to be raped (prostitution). Similarly an information worker agrees to being mind-raped to get income. What's your point? First off, by definition, a woman cannot "allow herself to be raped". "Sexual intercourse with a woman by a man without her consent". She may decide that ceasing resistance is the best way to come out alive, but that's hardly allowing rape. Beyond that, companies do not remove your ideas by force. I've had plenty of ideas which I kept my mouth shut on while in the employ of a client who I did not think "deserved" the idea. There's no mind control involved, here. You do have a choice. You can choose to make a given amount of money in exchange for your idea, or you can go for the brass ring and become an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur, you might make a million bucks - and you might end up destitute. I'm entirely self-employed, and let me tell you, being entirely in charge of your own future isn't any cakewalk. Sometimes it's worse than having your ideas "stolen", because when you're on your own, you find that a lot of your ideas a) weren't really good ideas and you pay the price, or b) were good ideas but you didn't have the resources to implement them. Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: "Ryan Drake" <rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:16:36 -0400 Organization: Systemes Electroniques Matrox ltee Message-ID: <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Tony wrote in message ... >In article <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com>, >scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... >> I taking "a totalitarian system of government in which a single >> authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the >> professed aim of establishing a stateless society" to be the >> definition. There are other options, but none of them have been put >> into wide practice. [Specifically, definitions such as "a system in >> which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed" >> clearly have never occurred in real life.] > >Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. >Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've >reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. >Or something similar. That's a pretty scary idea... What if someone makes a million a year just in intrest from investments? Should they be banned from working? And where should all the extra money left over that they didnt get to have go? -- Please remove the no.spam from my email address if relpying by email. Any opinions stated above are MINE and not my employer's.
From: paul@elastic.avid.com (Paul Miller) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: 31 Aug 1998 14:28:08 GMT Organization: AVID Technology, Inc. Tewksbury, MA Message-ID: <6sebto$2vp@handupme.avid.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> <1demtmq.1jbb81w1vbpfv0N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> qed@apexmail.com (Geoffrey Peters) writes: >> Paul Miller wrote in message <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com>... >> >How many more years do you think it'll take them to "invent" resizable >> >dialogs? >> ... I don't think dialogs should be resizable, with the >> exception of perhaps a More>> button. Dialogs pop up for a specific >> purpose. The user shouldn't be able to "play" with them. >I'm in the Dialogs Are Bad camp, myself. Way too many of them in today's I was thinking more in the "file browser dialog" area - I don't know about most NT users but I find myself with more than 10 files in directories. Having to scroll through the list (horizontall, now) with a scrollbar instead of seeing all of the files at once (with a simple resizing of the dialog to use more than just 10% of my screen) is REALLY aggravating. Same problem with those comboboxes that have 20 entries but only show 4 at once. Sheesh. -- Paul T. Miller | paul@elastic.avid.com Principal Engineer | Opinions expressed here are my own. Avid Technology, Inc. - Graphics and Effects Software Group
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <wsnyas59r8z.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> <6s6rof$61u$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <MPG.1050fbb0472b07c898968b@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <wsn67fcpdvd.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <MPG.1052a149a6e25ce698968e@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:10:20 GMT Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > > Who cares who defined it. You were blaming the definition of "derived work" on "extremists," but you were wrong. It is the fault of the mainstream legal system. Thus I corrected you. > It's wrong. Time to change it. Such > generality with obvious faults is a work in progress and should be null > and void. Oh yeah, this is the U.S. where the principle philosophy is > lying, I forgot. > All right, but flaming on g.m.d isn't going to change a legal system with billions of multinational dollars on its side. Companies want to prohibit the use of their code in other companies' code. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
Sender: russell@coulee.tdb.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> From: Russell Senior <seniorr@teleport.com> Message-ID: <86ww7pb2nv.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Organization: As much as seems appropriate Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:18:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:18:30 PDT >>>>> "Eivind" == Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: Eivind> The difference between the GPL and BSD-style licenses is a Eivind> tradeoff between which freedoms you want whom to have - the Eivind> GPL guarantees certain freedoms to users of derived works by Eivind> removing certain freedoms from the creator of the derived Eivind> works. A large number of people (me included) believe that Eivind> granting the creator of derived works the full right to the Eivind> fruit of their labour is good. We are the people that prefer Eivind> to license under a BSD-style license or freer. Russell> I think you are wrong in implying that the GPL denies the Russell> creator of a derived work the full right to the fruit of Russell> their labor. The GPL denies the creator of a derived work Russell> the full right to the fruit of the combined labor. The Russell> creator of the derived work *does* retain the full right to Russell> the fruit of *their own* labor, Eivind> Not the labor they put into a GPLed program - they have Eivind> limited rights to that. If you wanted to give them full Eivind> rights to that, but still require distribution of source, you Eivind> should require distribution of the original source. The Eivind> difference between the original and the one they created are Eivind> the fruits of _their_ labour. (I assume we can agree to the Eivind> last sentence, at least). You seem to be suggesting some particular attributes of the fruit be guaranteed. It seems clear to me that the creator of the derived work is entitled to the full right to the fruit of *their own* labor. Whether that fruit is valuable in isolation is a separate question. -- Russell Senior seniorr@teleport.com
From: Harmanjit Singh <harman@omsi14.omsi.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 31 Aug 1998 09:57:52 -0700 Organization: InterNex Information Services 1-800-595-3333 Message-ID: <xfgu32t3x7z.fsf@omsi14.omsi.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII p99dreyf@criens.u-psud.fr (Emmanuel Dreyfus) writes: > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: > > > No, this is wrong. You can sell GPL'd software freely. The same with > > BSD software. The main difference is that with the GPL you also have > > to supply the source code, and you also have to allow all your buyers > > to create derivative works and sell them, etc. > > And is a buyer allowed to modify it and give it for free? > Please read the GPL! -- With Warm Regards, Harmanjit Singh.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:09:52 GMT Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > > The difference between the GPL and BSD-style licenses is a tradeoff > between which freedoms you want whom to have - the GPL guarantees > certain freedoms to users of derived works by removing certain > freedoms from the creator of the derived works. > Excellent point, it's a tradeoff, neither is perfect. > The GPL-users don't believe in letting > people 'exploit' their work - fine. They're distributing their > software with more strings attached, but it is still often useful. > I don't think of it that way. It's not a matter of people exploiting the work, it's a matter of people taking rights from other people - namely the end users who receive the software. They are also damaging the community, and the overall state of free software. The purpose of the GPL is not to protect the author or subsequent authors. It's to protect the user and the software community. You say this yourself in the first passage I quoted - the GPL puts users and developers on the same level with the same rights. (or rather, it breaks down the user-developer distinction by letting everyone hack on the code.) Of course in many cases this happens even with the BSD-style licenses, but the GPL tries to make sure it happens. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: thp@vdo.ucr.edu (Tom Payne) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Date: 31 Aug 1998 17:02:14 GMT Organization: University of California, Riverside Message-ID: <6sekum$16o$1@pravda.ucr.edu> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> Graham Briggs (gb226@cam.ac.uk) wrote: : On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Paul Vigay wrote: : 1972: Xerox ALTO : -)> 1978: OS/9 originally written. : -)> 1979: Jobs first visits PARC in November (this date seems suspect) About that time, I was in Silicon Valley and had lunch with John Couch, an old friend who was Apple's VP for Software. The conversation went roughly as follows: "Tom, I finally found the kind of intuitive, self-documenting interface that we've been discussing for the past several years." "Where'd you find that?" "It Xerox PARC's SmallTalk system. I took Steve over there a couple week ago week and he was blown away by it. He's given me the go-ahead to develop a product based on that technology." "Yeah, but that system requires an ECL-based $100,000 personal computer to run it." "I've got some ideas to diminish the overhead, and eventually Moore's Law will take care of everything." I don't recall whether it was then or later that he told me about naming the system after Steve's wife. A few months later, I read of a set of three VME boards, designed by Andy Bechtolsheim as a masters thesis at Stanford, that he was licensing to various manufacturers. I called him to ask which of the manufacturers was making the better of the boards and how they were working out. He indicated that he was unhappy with all of them, said he was working on another approach, and invited me to call back in a few months. When I did the phone was answered, "Sun Microsystems, Vinod Khalsa speaking." The first Sun workstations were coming off the production line in June 1982, almost a year before the Lisa and about two years before the Mac. Sun made an important contribution contribution to GUI evolution with their NEWS system which later lost out to the X Window System. I was constantly frustrated, however, by Sun's inability (or unwillingness) to appreciate the importance of standardized tools that are friendly to the casual user. Tom Payne
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 31 Aug 1998 11:46:39 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6q9b$1u7$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> I wrote: >> Access and use are completely unrestricted. Only distribution and >> modification are restricted. David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >Modification is not restricted, sorry. The *only* thing the GPL >regulates is distribution (and the distribution of modified versions >has to adhere to the same rules as the distribution of unmodified >versions). Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. The GPL repeatedly states that modification can only be done under the terms of the license. It would certainly seem that section 2 still applies even if you modify but do not distribute: changed files must be identified (2a); the printed copyright notice can't be removed (2c). 2b doesn't apply if you don't distribute or publish. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 01 Sep 1998 12:58:02 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2u32sumkl.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6sa5op$if5@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Sep 1998 10:58:09 GMT fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > In article <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > > >> If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the > >> details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. > > >Byzantine? Strange accusation. > > Err... what word would you use for complex (especially in a legal > sense), difficult to understand, and created for a political > purpose? Well, Webster lists Byzantine as 1Byz-an-tine \'biz-)en-,te^-n, 'b[0xF5]^-z-, -,t[0xF5]^-n; be-'zan-,, b[0xF5]^--\ adj (1794) 1: of, relating to, or characteristic of the ancient city of Byzantium 2: of, relating to, or having the characteristics of a style of architecture developed in the Byzantine Empire esp. in the 5th and 6th centuries featuring the dome carried on pendentives over a square and incrustation with marble veneering and with colored mosaics on grounds of gold 3: of or relating to the churches using a traditional Greek rite and subject to Eastern canon law 4a: of, relating to, or characterized by a devious and usu. surreptitious manner of operation <fits a pattern of byzantine firings and near-firings that have long kept ... executives looking over their shoulders --Paul Ingrassia> 4b: LABYRINTHINE <searching in the byzantine complexity of the record for leads, defenses, and, in the case of Government lawyers, evidence of perjured testimony --B L. Collier> so I may have missed meaning 4b. But I deny that the GPL is complex and difficult to understand. Please quote any passage of the GPL that you consider too complicated to understand. I find that it is written in quite explicit and simple language, nothing near the sort of legalese obfuscation you often find in licenses. > Of course, if it can be freely distributed once you give it out, > it isn't obvious how you could make money from this. ``You can > buy it from me, or you can get it from my first customer for > free...'' You can, if you happen to be on good terms with the first customer, know his address and if the customer will be willing to make a copy and give it to you. If he is sufficiently so, he will probably hand you a secret copy even if that would be illegal. There is some margin where some-one will be willing to hand out a GPLed piece of software to you but refuse an illegal copy, but I doubt that this margin will be the absolute kill-all, in particular since you cannot ask the original distributor questions. > Returning to the point about complexity of the GPL license, > your comment seems to say that, if I use GPLed code, I must > GPL releases of my work. This is, in fact, incorrect. GPL > isn't infinitely infectious. As a specific example, I recently > inherited a lengthy, scientific code which uses GPL C++ > libraries (specifically extensions of array, matrix, and > complex variable support.) GPLed or LGPLed? That is an important difference. > The author added quite a bit to that library, and then used it > extensively as part of his scientific code (an electrostatic PIC > simulation, if anyone cares.) Now, he clearly used GPLed code. Does > that mean he has to GPL the code? No. If he used GPLed code for a non-GPLed product, he is breaking the original license. He has to GPL the resulting code. Not because the resulting product is "infected" or anything, but because nothing else gives him the right to be using the GPLed code if he does not adhere to its license. Unless, of course, he contacted the original author and obtained a different license for the code. Please state the software you are talking about and what GPL code it has been using, and it will be able to check up on whether your acquaintance has been misinterpreting the GPL. > Just because it uses a GPL C++ library does not mean it is infected. It is not infected. But if it is using a GPL C++ library, it means that without additional negotiations he is not allowed using the GPL code as a component in a non-GPLed work. If he does, he can be sued for breach of the license by the original author. > However, his modifications to that library would probably have to be > GPLed. Where exactly do you draw the line? The GPL license itself > specifies this. Not really. Copyright law specifies this. > But it is lengthy and I wouldn't trust my own reading of it > without consulting an lawyer. Please quote the passage you are having problems with. > Since I don't feel like paying a > lawyer, that means I _don't_know_, in detail and specifics, > how GPL works. Please quote the passage you are having problems with. > >It is fair in the respect that you got exactly the same rights with > >the original software. Writing that original software took a huge > >amount of work. > > And if I used perhaps 1% of the GPL code and wrote the other 99% > myself? In that case, I'd say my time and effort have priority. If the 1% is unimportant and you don't like the licensing, you are a fool for not writing the 1% yourself. Either you can do so easily, then do it, or you can't, in which case you cannot call it insignificant with regard to the entire work. > If it was the other way around, I would see your point. But what > if it's 10% vs. 90%? 40% vs. 60%? Where exactly do you draw the > line? If code containing just 1% of GPLed source has to be GPLed, > no one is going to use it commercially. People already do. > If code containing 99% > GPLed source doesn't have to be GPLed, then there is no point > in GPL. In practice, GPL draws the line somewhere in between. Nope. The GPL does not draw a line in between. It merely explains where the 0% line is located: These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. Thus, it is not the intent of this section to claim rights or contest your rights to work written entirely by you; rather, the intent is to exercise the right to control the distribution of derivative or collective works based on the Program. In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License. > But it doesn't draw that line in a clear and easily understood > way (in my opinion.) That's your opinion. I find the line pretty clear.
From: far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 10:58:07 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6sgjvv$poa@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> My apologies to Mark Willey who requested an end to this thread but I just couldn't let the following comment go without a rebuttal. In article <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: snip >The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any works made >under it. So what? The developer of anything has the right to place strings and covenants on his work. It is the right of free men and women. If you don't like the strings don't use the product. >Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. Nonsense. I as a developer of GNU software attach the strings because it is my right and FREEDOM to do so. If you don't like my strings... > In other words, gnu software is far from free. Where in the GNU literature does it say or imply that GNU software is free? Heck, I don't even like that term. I prefer "Open Source" which is now a trademark. GNU software is a common ownership similar to your local park. As such while I can go and enjoy my local park without charge I'm not allowed to bring out my bulldozer and start building my new estate. In other words for your local park to exist as intended people have to agree to certain ground rules. The fact that GNU software and your local park are owned in common does not prevent anyone from profiting from it's existence. At my local park for instance some guy sells hot dogs and soft drinks out of a cart. > Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest of the > world to use and benefit from in *any* way. Agreed, but then no one has claimed otherwise. > GNU puts on restrictions, rather hypocritically. Hypocrisy? What are you talking about? Is it hypocrisy to decry the GNU GPL and then quietly use software distributed under it? GateKeeper which you at least used in the past if not at the moment is licensed under the GPL. Why should I not be able to attach whatever strings I see fit? If I develop something small like a class or a bug fix I'll put it out as PD, but if I'm doing something big like gcc or GNUstep then I expect protection and compensation. Compensation comes in many forms but in the most common case I get more software when someone adds something. By employing the GPL I feel that I'm contributing to a common wealth. A wealth that can't be usurped by any one individual or corporation. It is not my goal to develop things so that the wealthy can become wealthier through my labor and without compensating me. snip >Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... -- Felipe A. Rodriguez # Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan from Agoura Hills, CA # being a private citizen because he was # armed; his successors, since they avoided far@ix.netcom.com # the inconveniences of arms, became private (NeXTmail preferred) # citizens after having been dukes. (MIMEmail welcome) # --Nicolo Machiavelli
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 01 Sep 1998 13:05:42 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2soicum7t.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Sep 1998 11:05:43 GMT John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> wrote: > > The purpose of the GPL is not to protect the author or subsequent > > authors. It's to protect the user and the software community. You say > > this yourself in the first passage I quoted - the GPL puts users and > > developers on the same level with the same rights. > > What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition they > are nothing but leeches on the work of others. [Rest of rant about users deleted] If you don't want to give users any stuff, don't release it. Simple as that. Nobody forces you to release anything. The GPL is a license for people wanting to release something to the public in a certain way. It essentially prohibits to release in a way that would be of interest *only* to end users but not to programmers, but it does not prohibit releasing in a form that *is* useful to end users. You'd need a different license for that. Why you would want to escapes me, but tastes may differ. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 01 Sep 1998 14:39:20 +0200 Message-ID: <864susnh1j.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Havoc Pennington | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | > The GPL-users don't believe in letting | > people 'exploit' their work - fine. They're distributing their | > software with more strings attached, but it is still often useful. | > | | I don't think of it that way. It's not a matter of people exploiting | the work, it's a matter of people taking rights from other people - | namely the end users who receive the software. I cannot let this stand uncontested. The "taking of rights" you're talking about is a product of fantasy. Even the possibility of getting the source-code to a changed version isn't there until the changed version has been created. If you think of the source code as a generic 'right', then you're ignoring this fact. The only case where this right exists is when somebody elects to modify and distribute piece of software where the right has been created through the GPL. However, it isn't right to say that by distributing without source (for a non-GPL program) you remove any 'rights' from the users - they have no 'right' to have source to the program at least until the point the program exists. | They are also damaging the community, and the overall state of free | software. Thank you for the accusation. I'd like to know how my distribution of BSD-licensed software with modifications have damaged the community. Go in details and be exact. Note that the distribution of less free versions of this software (pre-installed on suitable hardware to run it on) has paid for most of my involvement in free software. | The purpose of the GPL is not to protect the author or subsequent | authors. It's to protect the user and the software community. You say | this yourself in the first passage I quoted - the GPL puts users and | developers on the same level with the same rights. (or rather, it | breaks down the user-developer distinction by letting everyone hack on | the code.) | | Of course in many cases this happens even with the BSD-style licenses, | but the GPL tries to make sure it happens. And whether the GPL overall protects or harms the community is not obvious. It is clear that it in many cases harm the community by denying people the ability[1] to hack the code, but at the same time it forces some release of hacked code that wouldn't happen otherwise. [1] Ability to hack code isn't only related to the legal right to hack that code; it is also based on the ability to afford taking the time to hack the code. With the GPL, many people loose the second part of the requirement. Eivind.
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: really messed up NeXt on boot Date: 31 Aug 1998 20:39:41 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6sf1md$nde$3@news.idiom.com> References: <6scgq6$16b4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ejv108@psu.edu ejv108@psu.edu may or may not have said: -> I accidentaly did a chmod 666 -R * command. Now since chmod is not -> executable I cant even set any permissions back, i cant boot up into NS -> 3.2. The only thing that i can do is do a single user boot. From there -> is there anything that i can do to save my system...or do I have to -> re-install NS3.2-of which I dont have! You're hosed. You need to find someone in your area who'll lend you a CD-ROM drive and a NEXTSTEP installation CD. -jcr -- "Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time" - Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, US Navy. Where is the line between mere incompetence and actual treason? -jcr
From: Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 15:30:21 +0200 Organization: Changes every other year Message-ID: <35EBF6ED.167E@sni.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <864susnh1j.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eivind Eklund wrote: [ ... ] > The only case where this right exists is when somebody elects to > modify and distribute piece of software where the right has been > created through the GPL. However, it isn't right to say that by > distributing without source (for a non-GPL program) you remove any > 'rights' from the users - they have no 'right' to have source to the > program at least until the point the program exists. Even then, why does anyone think (s)he has the "right" to have the source code even when the program exists? I do not have the right to have the construction plans for my Dasher, nor do I have the right to have the exact formula for any medicine I might have to take or any other chemical I use. When you get a program, you purchase the right to use that program. Personally, I would like to see that you also have the right to have a "usable", i.e. bug-free version of that program, which means that the supplier of the program is responsible for fixing any bug in the program that might stand in your way. Also, I think that one should have the right to sell the program, just as I can sell my Dasher when I no longer need it (Imagine you were not allowed to re-sell your used car, or your home B-{). If you don't like the idea of someone selling you software and not providing the source code, feel free and write exactly the same program FOR YOUR OWN USE! Why not treat the source code as the construction plans for the actual program, as the "recipe"? [ ... ] -- Josef Moellers mollers.pad@sni.de PS Dieser Artikel enthaelt einzig und allein meine persoenlichen Ansichten! PS This article contains my own, personal opinion only!
From: Adrian Jackson <adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 15:42:06 +0100 Organization: Edinburgh University Message-ID: <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! Strange but true. Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 Adrian
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 15:02:03 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6sh29b$2nl$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6sgjvv$poa@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: > In article <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit > <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: snip > >The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any > >works made under it. > > So what? The developer of anything has the right to place strings > and covenants on his work. It is the right of free men and women. > If you don't like the strings don't use the product. Yep. But when most put strings on something they are at least honest enough to point it out. GNU people like to talk about free software, but their software is not free. It comes with strings attatched; it asks for consideration in the form of restricting future distribution of derivative works. People who put out PD software do not ask for any consideration; they actually produce software that is free. The so what. I want to make it painfully clear that 1) the manifesto is hypocritical, and 2) that GPL software is not free. I don't have any problem with GPL in and of itself. It's the false nature of the way people advertise it as free when it's not, and the hypocrisy of the manifesto that I like to slam on. > >Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. > > Nonsense. I as a developer of GNU software attach the strings > because it is my right and FREEDOM to do so. If you don't like > my strings... I don't have to use it. Right. But that doesn't make your work *free*. It's nonsense to say what you are saying. You made something and if I don't want to pay the 8billion dollars you want for it I'm free not to buy it, but your item is far from free. To obtain your item I must *pay* you something. I must give you consideration. If I want your gnu work I must give you consideration, it's not free for the taking otherwise as is PD software. > > In other words, gnu software is far from free. > > Where in the GNU literature does it say or imply that GNU software > is free? Heck, I don't even like that term. I prefer "Open > Source" which is now a trademark. EVERYWHERE! Are you kidding me. Free Software Foundation for starters!?! Everywhere through the manifesto (now sanitized for stupidity and called a philosophy et al.). Funny, an organization that doesn't believe in author's having IP rights goes and gets trademark protection. Nah, they're not hypocrites. Puhleez. > GNU software is a common ownership similar to your local park. > As such while I can go and enjoy my local park without charge > I'm not allowed to bring out my bulldozer and start building my > new estate. In other words for your local park to exist as > intended people have to agree to certain ground rules. > > The fact that GNU software and your local park are owned in common > does not prevent anyone from profiting from it's existence. At > my local park for instance some guy sells hot dogs and soft drinks > out of a cart. Please, this analogy fails on many levels. If I have a work that has tradesecrets in it, I can't integrate GNU stuff because then I'd have to disclose it and everyone would know my secrets. Also, my competitors would just suck up all my knowhow and dupe the work I spent a lot of time on. For some projects this is fine and dandy. But for most companies this is not acceptable in a real free market system. GNU enjoys this part of the software community, the commercial part, and doesn't allow them into the park to play in the sand box with all the others. That's the fact. All the defensive explanations in the world wont change that. > > Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest of > > the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. > > Agreed, but then no one has claimed otherwise. > I've seen many GNU BOZOs claim that PD software isn't given to the world because others who make *later* derivatives don't share their modifications. The logic of a rear end discharge from a dog employed their. > > GNU puts on restrictions, rather hypocritically. > > > Hypocrisy? What are you talking about? Is it hypocrisy to decry > the GNU GPL and then quietly use software distributed under it? It's hypocrisy that the GNU manifesto believes that "software is so much fun to program that programmers really don't need to be paid [i.e. given consideration] because it's so much fun" but yet the GPL itself demands consideration (i.e. the restriction of distribution of derivative works). It's further hypocritical that the manifesto goes on to crap all over our IP laws, but then the GNU foundation goes on to secure IP rights like Trademarks et al. I really enjoy pointing this out over and over. Again Felipe, I don't know if you read my other posts on this topic. But let me clarify a couple of things. 1) The GPL in and of itself is a fine license. There's nothing wrong with authors asking for this distribution restriction. My problem is with the hypocrisy of the manifesto and the average GNU bozo, and the misrepresentation that GNU software is free when it is not. 2) I think that despite its hypocritical acts, that GNU is an overall net win for people at large, and that there are tons of cool products made through GNU, and really cool and nice people that have done things for gnu. But I like to point out people that give their works away scott free via PD are being even more genereous. > GateKeeper which you at least used in the past if not at the > moment is licensed under the GPL. Why should I not be able to > attach whatever strings I see fit? You absolutely should Felipe. First, its a sweet product (and I only stopped using it when I went to a cable :). Second, I, unlike that putz that wrote the manifesto, believe you are entitled to exact as much consideration for your work as you feel you want. And that includes, and I hope for you that you will be, getting rich from it if you so choose. > If I develop something small like a class or a bug fix I'll put > it out as PD, but if I'm doing something big like gcc or GNUstep > then I expect protection and compensation. Compensation comes > in many forms but in the most common case I get more software > when someone adds something. Absolutely fair. Like I said, I don't have any problem with the GPL in and of itself; if it were extracted from the misleading "free" software advertising banted about it, and the hypocrisy and condescending attitude of that manifesto writer, it would be a pretty honest and very fair thing. As it is, GPL does many things nicely despite the bad things; i.e. the hypocrisy and misleading representations about it being free. > By employing the GPL I feel that I'm contributing to a common > wealth. A wealth that can't be usurped by any one individual or > corporation. It is not my goal to develop things so that the > wealthy can become wealthier through my labor and without > compensating me. Again, I think it's fine that you contribute something with the restriction on distribution of derivatives. Nothing at all wrong with it untill you try to sell me on the idea that the contribution or the byproduct is free. It's not. But just because it's not doesn't mean it's not a good thing. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 15:04:55 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6sh2en$2nl$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <m2soicum7t.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > > > Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> wrote: > > > The purpose of the GPL is not to protect the author or subsequent > > > authors. It's to protect the user and the software community. You say > > > this yourself in the first passage I quoted - the GPL puts users and > > > developers on the same level with the same rights. > > > > What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition they > > are nothing but leeches on the work of others. > [Rest of rant about users deleted] > > If you don't want to give users any stuff, don't release it. Simple > as that. Nobody forces you to release anything. The GPL is a license Right, or I can release it for compensation. > for people wanting to release something to the public in a certain The GPL license asks for compensation when you release it. Which is fine and fair. I'm just annoyed when people try to blow smoke up my posterior telling me that gnu software is free when it exacts a pretty significant restriction on people. > way. It essentially prohibits to release in a way that would be of > interest *only* to end users but not to programmers, but it does not > prohibit releasing in a form that *is* useful to end users. > > You'd need a different license for that. Why you would want to > escapes me, but tastes may differ. I think your points are otherwise right on and valid. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Peter Makholm <brother@diku.dk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: 01 Sep 1998 17:18:14 +0200 Organization: The Danish Cabal Message-ID: <xnok93nn9op.fsf@andvare.diku.dk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Sep 1998 15:18:23 GMT paul@elastic.avid.com (Paul Miller) writes: > How many more years do you think it'll take them to "invent" resizable > dialogs? I dont care about dialogs. And it's ok that I'm not able to resize a dosbox, dos is crappy and shouldn't be fixed. But I can't live with not being able to resize a telnet session, scroll up and down in a telnet session. -- Makholm d.y.
From: kamundse@hornet.csc.calpoly.edu (Kristin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Netboot Troubles Date: 1 Sep 1998 17:21:39 GMT Organization: California Polytechnic State University, SLO Message-ID: <6shaf3$l0n$1@cscnews.csc.calpoly.edu> Hi, I have 13 stations I am trying to get to netboot off my 040 cube. But every time I try to boot one up, I get thrown into BuildDisk.app. Here is what I have done so far... Cube is running NS 3.3, it is set up as the NetInfo master, and is the mail server and time server. I added the new machines (one at a time) by hand with HostManager, set netboot option to boot off of the cube. Did 'newclient' for each machine (one at a time) and then used NFSManager to export '/' as read-only, root access to all the stations, each stations '/private' is read-write, root access only to the machine that is it '/private' for, and '/usr/spool/mail' and '/home' are read-write, root access for all machines (exported these in the '/' domain of netinfo, the rest were at the cube's domain in netinfo) The hard drives in the stations are formatted and names 'swapdisk' so that the machines will use their own HD space for swapping (except of course the handful with no HDs). Booting seems to go okay, it mounts '/' and '/private' just fine, and it uses the local HD for swap. Once up, you can remotely access the machine and everything seems fine, but if you try to login on the console and get the WorkSpace manager, you get BuildDisk instead. I did an dread -l and I did not see anything (like a login hook) that would shed some light of the problem. Once the machine was up, I double-checked the netinfo and nfs settings on the station from the cube, and it looks all correct. I am stumped at this point... I have read all the documentation online and looked through nextanswers. Any ideas would be great, I want to get these machine up within the next 2 weeks. -Kristin -- WARNING: This Product Warps Space and Time in Its Vicinity.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc From: maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <EyM6Ax.KLJ@T-FCN.Net> Sender: news@T-FCN.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: thp@vdo.ucr.edu Organization: none References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6sekum$16o$1@pravda.ucr.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:40:08 GMT In <6sekum$16o$1@pravda.ucr.edu> Tom Payne wrote: > I don't recall whether it was then or later that he told me about > naming the system after Steve's wife. Daughter? > The first Sun workstations were coming off the production line in June > 1982, almost a year before the Lisa and about two years before the > Mac. Sun made an important contribution contribution to GUI evolution > with their NEWS system which later lost out to the X Window System. I > was constantly frustrated, however, by Sun's inability (or > unwillingness) to appreciate the importance of standardized tools that > are friendly to the casual user. Well they did try. I remember using the fairly-early 3/50's in about the 89 time frame. This was when *I* was getting frutrated at Atari's complete mishandling of the GEM system etc. I started reading up about SunOS and I as impressed by several of the standard widgets. Very very Xerox-like though h - type in the command like prompt, select, and apply mouse command, ugggg. Later in life I went back over the docs and notes I took and realized that many of the widgets were "cool" but terrible. For instance they used a inner" control to switch between several settings - one at a time. Maury
Sender: klaus@debian Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> From: Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> Date: 01 Sep 1998 15:47:02 +0200 Message-ID: <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> Organization: IVM GmbH mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > proprietary software). Exactly! Klaus Schilling
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 31 Aug 1998 16:51:47 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2hfyt19x8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 1998 14:51:49 GMT "Ryan Drake" <rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com> writes: > Tony wrote in message ... > > > >Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. > >Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've > >reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. > >Or something similar. > > That's a pretty scary idea... What if someone makes a million a year just in > intrest from investments? Should they be banned from working? And where > should all the extra money left over that they didnt get to have go? It would also mean that, say, top Formula 1 race pilots would have to retire after a few minutes into their first race in a year. Which is not bound to make sports more interesting. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 20:53:55 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6shmt3$emu@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <6sh29b$2nl$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> In article <6sh29b$2nl$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: >far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: >> In article <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit >> <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: snip >> >The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any >> >works made under it. >> >> So what? The developer of anything has the right to place strings >> and covenants on his work. It is the right of free men and women. >> If you don't like the strings don't use the product. > >Yep. But when most put strings on something they are at least honest enough >to point it out. GNU people like to talk about free software, but their >software is not free. It comes with strings attatched; it asks for >consideration in the form of restricting future distribution of derivative >works. People who put out PD software do not ask for any consideration; they >actually produce software that is free. The so what. I want to make it >painfully clear that 1) the manifesto is hypocritical, and 2) that GPL >software is not free. > John, I know that you've been studying to be an attorney. Surely they've taught you somewhere along the line that saying something is so is not quite the same thing as proving it with facts. In my entire post you skirted all of my points while at best pointing out that you heard such and such from some GNU Bozo. This is hearsay at best. If you want to win legal arguments and convince reasonable people you're going to need facts to back up your statements. I would like to see which specific passsage from an official FSF document lead you to believe the GPL might mean free as in PD. Or for that matter any of the other claims you've made. >I don't have any problem with GPL in and of itself. It's the false nature of >the way people advertise it as free when it's not, and the hypocrisy of the >manifesto that I like to slam on. > Again this is a problem of your perception. I've never thought of GNU software as being free in the sense of PD. > >> >Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. >> >> Nonsense. I as a developer of GNU software attach the strings >> because it is my right and FREEDOM to do so. If you don't like >> my strings... > >I don't have to use it. Right. But that doesn't make your work *free*. >It's nonsense to say what you are saying. You made something and if I don't >want to pay the 8billion dollars you want for it I'm free not to buy it, but >your item is far from free. To obtain your item I must *pay* you something. >I must give you consideration. If I want your gnu work I must give you >consideration, it's not free for the taking otherwise as is PD software. > Again a problem of your perception without any facts backing it up. > >> > In other words, gnu software is far from free. >> >> Where in the GNU literature does it say or imply that GNU software >> is free? Heck, I don't even like that term. I prefer "Open >> Source" which is now a trademark. > >EVERYWHERE! Are you kidding me. Free Software Foundation for starters!?! >Everywhere through the manifesto (now sanitized for stupidity and called a >philosophy et al.). > Freedom, "land of the free" ...etc are words thrown around quite often. And yet even in a free country there are restrictions. They are necessary for the common good ...etc. Does that mean we are all hypocrites? And btw, "EVERYWHERE!" is not proof. Show us a specific passage. >Funny, an organization that doesn't believe in author's having IP rights goes >and gets trademark protection. Nah, they're not hypocrites. Puhleez. > What you believe is irrelevent in the real world. Just because some of us strive for Utopia doesn't mean we are going to start sleeping with our doors unlocked. What the FSF does is just simply prudent given the reality of things. Btw, see my sig for another more historical example ;-) > >> GNU software is a common ownership similar to your local park. >> As such while I can go and enjoy my local park without charge >> I'm not allowed to bring out my bulldozer and start building my >> new estate. In other words for your local park to exist as >> intended people have to agree to certain ground rules. >> >> The fact that GNU software and your local park are owned in common >> does not prevent anyone from profiting from it's existence. At >> my local park for instance some guy sells hot dogs and soft drinks >> out of a cart. > >Please, this analogy fails on many levels. Please identify them one by one because your argument below barely addresses my analogy. If I have a work that has >tradesecrets in it, I can't integrate GNU stuff because then I'd have to >disclose it and everyone would know my secrets. I guess that's the thing which kept NeXT from charging $5k per developer seat? ;-) Also, my competitors would >just suck up all my knowhow and dupe the work I spent a lot of time on. For >some projects this is fine and dandy. But for most companies this is not >acceptable in a real free market system. GNU enjoys this part of the >software community, the commercial part, and doesn't allow them into the park >to play in the sand box with all the others. That's the fact. All the >defensive explanations in the world wont change that. > The list of commercial developers profiting from GNU works is quite substantial. Besides NeXT, there's RedHat, Caldera...etc ...etc And in fact even Oracle the second largest software company recently committed to supporting GNU/Linux. Others already supporting the platform include Informix. If the GNU GPL makes it so dfficult for a commercial software vendor then please explain the above. > >> > Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest of >> > the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. >> >> Agreed, but then no one has claimed otherwise. >> > >I've seen many GNU BOZOs claim that PD software isn't given to the world >because others who make *later* derivatives don't share their modifications. >The logic of a rear end discharge from a dog employed their. > How many times in one post are you going to rely on hearsay? Oh wait this time you added a rude metaphor. Is that your proof? :-) > >> > GNU puts on restrictions, rather hypocritically. >> >> >> Hypocrisy? What are you talking about? Is it hypocrisy to decry >> the GNU GPL and then quietly use software distributed under it? > >It's hypocrisy that the GNU manifesto believes that "software is so much fun >to program that programmers really don't need to be paid [i.e. given >consideration] because it's so much fun" but yet the GPL itself demands >consideration (i.e. the restriction of distribution of derivative works). >It's further hypocritical that the manifesto goes on to crap all over our IP >laws, but then the GNU foundation goes on to secure IP rights like Trademarks >et al. I really enjoy pointing this out over and over. > Stating that one would like things to be a certain way does not change the fact that you must live in the real world. But this is very nearly irrelevnt because no one releases code per the terms of the GNU manifesto. The GPL is a legal document not philosophy. And again I would point out that your paraphrasing will not win any arguments. If something is in fact wrong point out the specific passage and quote it verbatim. >Again Felipe, I don't know if you read my other posts on this topic. But let >me clarify a couple of things. 1) The GPL in and of itself is a fine >license. There's nothing wrong with authors asking for this distribution >restriction. My problem is with the hypocrisy of the manifesto and the >average GNU bozo, and the misrepresentation that GNU software is free when it >is not. Now your changing your story. I can't form intelligent opinions based on your perceptions of hypocricy or on what your heard, thought your heard or for that matter your opinion regarding any particular person who claimed to be a GNU bozo. If in fact you believe that the FSF is making false or misleading statements regarding the GPL prove it with facts. 2) I think that despite its hypocritical acts, that GNU is an >overall net win for people at large, and that there are tons of cool products >made through GNU, and really cool and nice people that have done things for >gnu. But I like to point out people that give their works away scott free >via PD are being even more genereous. > Again your tune seems different. Now GNU is a good thing? ;-) While I agree that people who release things into the PD are generous how many software suites as complete and supported as the GNU suite are out there. As a matter of fact the only complete thing I can think of is BSD and it was not a volunteer effort but rather a government funded work. Not quite so generous when armed tax collectors enforce a governemt mandate to develop something. ;-) Ok, ok I'm exagerating a bit. But you get the point. ;-) > >> GateKeeper which you at least used in the past if not at the >> moment is licensed under the GPL. Why should I not be able to >> attach whatever strings I see fit? > >You absolutely should Felipe. First, its a sweet product (and I only stopped >using it when I went to a cable :). Thanks. Second, I, unlike that putz that wrote >the manifesto, believe you are entitled to exact as much consideration for >your work as you feel you want. And that includes, and I hope for you that >you will be, getting rich from it if you so choose. > I don't know Richard Stallman personally. But his opinions are his own inalienable right whatever they might be. When I and other write GNU code we sign on to the GNU GPL. Nothing more and nothing less. > >> If I develop something small like a class or a bug fix I'll put >> it out as PD, but if I'm doing something big like gcc or GNUstep >> then I expect protection and compensation. Compensation comes >> in many forms but in the most common case I get more software >> when someone adds something. > >Absolutely fair. Like I said, I don't have any problem with the GPL in and >of itself; if it were extracted from the misleading "free" software >advertising banted about it, and the hypocrisy and condescending attitude of >that manifesto writer, it would be a pretty honest and very fair thing. As >it is, GPL does many things nicely despite the bad things; i.e. the hypocrisy >and misleading representations about it being free. > The farther we get into this the more it seems that your only qualm is something percieved. Quite frankly I've read most of the GNU documentation and I've never gotten your impression. > >> By employing the GPL I feel that I'm contributing to a common >> wealth. A wealth that can't be usurped by any one individual or >> corporation. It is not my goal to develop things so that the >> wealthy can become wealthier through my labor and without >> compensating me. > >Again, I think it's fine that you contribute something with the restriction >on distribution of derivatives. Nothing at all wrong with it untill you try >to sell me on the idea that the contribution or the byproduct is free. It's >not. But just because it's not doesn't mean it's not a good thing. > And for the last time I'll ask for facts. Where exactly are you getting the impression that GNU software is free. As I said I don't even like the term. I prefer the term Open Source which was recently trademarked for the express purpose of limiting it's use to a particular defintion. > >-- >Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... >_________________________________________________________________ >UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK > mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com > http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit > You're dangerous because you're honest... -- Felipe A. Rodriguez # Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan from Agoura Hills, CA # being a private citizen because he was # armed; his successors, since they avoided far@ix.netcom.com # the inconveniences of arms, became private (NeXTmail preferred) # citizens after having been dukes. (MIMEmail welcome) # --Nicolo Machiavelli
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 21:10:36 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6shnsc$n5l$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <yq34sur7si1.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) wrote: > John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > > What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition > > they are nothing but leeches on the work of others. > > This tirade probably stands on its own but I'd like to put it > into context. > > Linus USES compilers, editors, fileutils, etc. to make his kernel. > > Programmers USE the linux kernel, compilers, editors, fileutils, > etc. to make their projects. > > We all USE hardware components we didn't build ourselves to run > our kernels and utilities and our newsreaders. > > We mostly USE buildings we didn't build and USE food we didn't > grow. And, as our species reproduces sexually, we USE another > person for reproduction. But only after being given a LICENSE TO USE! You may not use *any* of the above without permission. If someone walks into the house you built and tries to use it w/o permission (i.e. without a license) I'd say they have no right to do so. You're missing the point and then some. > > but leeches on the work of others. If I make something, I can > > keep it all to myself and not let it out of my house. I'd get > > all the enjoyment of it and > > I would encourage you to not let posts like these out of your > house. And I'd incourage you to think. > > you'd get none. You have no right to it, morally or legally. > > If you were to try and take my work, you'd be a thief because > > you have nothing to do with it. If you got to use my work, > > you'd be nothing more than a user, a leech. > I take it then if you USED someone else's code whether BSDed, > PDed, or GPLed then by defintion you yourself are "nothing more > than a user, a leech." Yep. That's right. And I don't purport that I deserve more rights to that work than the author because I am nothing more than a user/leech. That's absolutlely correct. > > You deserve no rights, you contribute nothing. You are worthless > > to the > You'll take their money, right? Whose money? As a user I'll take the owner's money? Jeezus, now you want the author to pay you for using his work? That's pretty impressive. And stupid. > > process of creation, unless you provide consideration/compensation. > > Users deserve nothing. Absolutely nothing. Putting them on > > the same level as creators is beyond moronic in any sense, > > moral, legal, or otherwise. > The people who grow your food will like to know how you feel. Your inablility to comprehend is impressive. The people who work to make food are creators. It's *their* food, not mine. If I just walk over and start eating *their* food, I'm stealing. I have no right to it at all. If they sell it to me, then I have a right to it, but not until then. I as a user/eater have no right to go over to the grower and take what he produced. He is the only one that has a right to control the food because he made it, not me. I feel he is entitled to the fruit of his labor. > > It's obnoxious to think that anything need protect the rights > > of what in essence are users. > > The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any > > works made under it. Strings attached are antithetical to > > freedom. In other words, gnu software is far from free. > > Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest of > > the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. GNU puts on > > restrictions, rather hypocritically. > If this post actually reflects your views, I would suggest that > you stop calling others hypocrite and start calling them "Sir" > and "Ma'am". I've met beggers with better manners and morals. And I'd suggest you start using something other than shit for brains. If your actuall intelligence is reflected by the analitical skills, or rather lack thereof, displayed in this post, then your opinion of my manners and morals is something to be pleased about. > This wasn't honest. This was ugly. Often the two work hand in hand. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMKLq.51r@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <6s6gtv$lpr$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:49:02 GMT In article <6s6gtv$lpr$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com>, John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: >It didn't create anything free. That's right, it didn't create software that you can freely ripe off and make proprietary, you must have misunderstood the central goal of the GPL. You don't get any brownie points for this statement. What is did create is GPL style free software. Do you have a problem with that statement? No, I didn't think so. >The claim often is that GNU is giving stuff away to the world for >free, when it is far from doing so. This is your opinion. You have no knowledge, facts or reasoning that will change our minds, live with it. You will have to be content to disagree with us in _your_ opinions. >The claim is that people that do GNU work are making gifts when that >is far from the truth. No, it isn't, you seem to believe the the world must revolve around you and that your opinions and valuations must be facts and that everyone must share them, spare us all, please, we have seen others that are more competent than you try and persuade us of the exact same things that you seem to be. Try dispensing with your opinions, and state facts. I will agree with facts. Facts can be disputed and proven. >Gifts do not require any consideration. I hate to disappoint you, some of us use the English language differently than you do. In my family, when my father gave me a gift of money to buy books for school, I was required to use that money for books for school. >They are freely given, and once given those receiving them are free >to use them in any manner without any strings. False. I give you a gun, are you free to use it in any manner without strings? No. If I give you a can of spray paint, can you use it to peel carrots? No. Are we feel to use them to peel carrots? No. All gifts have limits on their use than are inherent to each gift. We already knew this. Further, no one ever said and only a moron would think that the gift of the GPL is without constraints and strings. You seem to have been surprised by this, and feel the need to share this new discovery you may with us, save us all. Thanks for sharing, now, go away. You don't bring any new ideas to the table in your post. >To use GNU stuff you *must* provide consideration. There are huge Huge? Sounds like an opinion again. Some people/companies and trivially meet the requirements, others prefer instead to not meet them and not use the software. No big deal. Do you think that you are telling us anything that we don't already know? Explain the huge strings I or my company face when I use emacs everyday to write proprietary C code for my company? Same question, but with gcc. >strings attached. If you use it, you will have to give away your own >source code away. False. This is just an over-generalization. If you limit it and trim this down, then I will agre with you. >The part that pisses me off is the notion that something is being >given away for free because it really demeans others wonderful >contributions. You insult most of us who donate code with this remark. We know the limits, we know the strings, you like the strings, the is in part _why_ some of us donate. >On that scale the latter is a) the only one that is giving us a >free gift Who died and appointed you spokesperson for the world? This is your opinion again. >It fails to make the average programmer's life easier Too bad! That wasn't the goal, you must be thinking of another project. >They end up re-inventing the wheel Too bad. You only get to play with our toys if you share your toys. If you don't want to share, that is your problem. Little boys that don't share get stuck in the corner so they can play with themselves. >I think it's a fine license (minus the moron philosophy behind it) >in and of itself. I'm just not giving it credit for being a free >software foundation. It's not. Again, your opinion differs from ours. It's too bad your post was so pointless. You do a disservice to all those people that stand in a unified front against the GPL, so may of them come up with things that are much more interesting.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 23:40:16 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6sh29b$2nl$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6shmt3$emu@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: > In article <6sh29b$2nl$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit > >Yep. But when most put strings on something they are at least > >honest enough to point it out. GNU people like to talk about > >free software, but their software is not free. It comes with > >strings attatched; it asks for consideration in the form of > >restricting future distribution of derivative works. People > >who put out PD software do not ask for any consideration; they > >actually produce software that is free. The so what. I want > >to make it painfully clear that 1) the manifesto is hypocritical, > >and 2) that GPL software is not free. > > John, I know that you've been studying to be an attorney. Surely > they've taught you somewhere along the line that saying something > is so is not quite the same thing as proving it with facts. In > my entire post you skirted all of my points while at best pointing > out that you heard such and such from some GNU Bozo. This is > hearsay at best. This seems like a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, and a bit of rhetoric. > If you want to win legal arguments and convince reasonable people Yea. > you're going to need facts to back up your statements. I would And I don't see myself inside a court room and no one is paying me my hourly fee for this, so I see no need to put on a case. This is knowledge that you can use or ignore. It's up to you, I'm doing my bit for god and country fighting the koolaid on this one to get out a point that I hope will make GNU better by being more honest and less hypocritical. It's up to others to use it or ignore it, it's nothing I'll lose sleep over either way. > like to see which specific passsage from an official FSF document > lead you to believe the GPL might mean free as in PD. Or for > that matter any of the other claims you've made. Let's start with the name. ****FREE**** SOFTWARE FOUNDATION. Then go to their web page and see how often the term FREE SOFTWARE is banted about when the software in question is not free. A snip: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html "Free software is a matter of freedom, not price. But proprietary software companies sometimes use the term ``free software'' to refer to price. Sometimes they mean that you can obtain a binary copy at no charge; sometimes they mean that a copy is included on a computer that you are buying. This has nothing to do with what we mean by free software in the GNU project. Because of this potential confusion, when a software company says its product is free software, always check the actual distribution terms to see whether users really have all the freedoms that free software implies. Sometimes it really is free software; sometimes it isn't. " Yea, it doesn't mention that the user should check that GNU itself puts a restriction on distribution. The entire site, and many of the people involved do a great deal to obfuscate that in fact, GNU software is far from free. Here's another misrepresentation IMO (on the same page): "Open Source software The term ``open source'' software is used by some people to mean more or less the same thing as free software. We prefer the term ``free software'' ; follow that link to see the reasons." If you follow the links it makes OpenSource seem less free than GNU. And if I understand it, OpenSource is a license much like the MiscKit, which in fact is less encumbered than GPL software. The entire implication is that GNU "free software" is more free, when in fact it has greater restrictions. This kind of hypocrisy is axiomatic of the entire GNU effort. > > > > >I don't have any problem with GPL in and of itself. It's the > >false nature of the way people advertise it as free when it's > >not, and the hypocrisy of the manifesto that I like to slam > >on. > > > > > Again this is a problem of your perception. I've never thought > of GNU software as being free in the sense of PD. Good for you. That doesn't mean that many others don't. I have on *many* such fights in usenet heard idiots talking about how PD software is less free than GPL software when GPL software has greater restrictions. Why, because most don't bother to read or understand the licensing issues involved and just see "free software foundation." > >> >Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. > >> > >> Nonsense. I as a developer of GNU software attach the strings > >> because it is my right and FREEDOM to do so. If you don't > >> like my strings... > > > >I don't have to use it. Right. But that doesn't make your > >work *free*. It's nonsense to say what you are saying. You > >made something and if I don't want to pay the 8billion dollars > >you want for it I'm free not to buy it, but your item is far > >from free. To obtain your item I must *pay* you something. I > >must give you consideration. If I want your gnu work I must > >give you consideration, it's not free for the taking otherwise > >as is PD software. > > Again a problem of your perception without any facts backing it > up. Who said I'm proving a case? I could give a flying dingle crap if you think I proved a case or not. If I've pissed you off enough to enter into this little banter with me, as far as I'm concerned that's proof enough that I've hit some kind of defensive chord. That's proof enough for me. I know enough for *me*. That *you* are not convinced doesn't bother or affect me in the least. After going through the effort to explain things, and you don't want to see them. Fine. Your willful blindness to it is not going to bother me. Not at all. I'm doing it in the hopes it will make things better, for everyone's sake, but if it falls on deaf ears. Oh well, so swell. It's kinda obnoxious that I somehow not only should show you things that might help you out, but now have a duty of convincing you. I don't. You won't. That's life. Take it for what it's worth. If you think my points are without merit, fine, it shouldn't razz your panties me being as stupid and off base as I just must be. > >> > In other words, gnu software is far from free. > >> > >> Where in the GNU literature does it say or imply that GNU > >> software is free? Heck, I don't even like that term. I > >> prefer "Open Source" which is now a trademark. > > > >EVERYWHERE! Are you kidding me. Free Software Foundation for > >starters!?! Everywhere through the manifesto (now sanitized > >for stupidity and called a philosophy et al.). > > > > Freedom, "land of the free" ...etc are words thrown around quite > often. And yet even in a free country there are restrictions. > They are necessary for the common good ...etc. Does that mean > we are all hypocrites? > > And btw, "EVERYWHERE!" is not proof. Show us a specific passage. I did. And what specific passage do you need when the place is called "FREE SOFTWARE FOUNDATION"? Yes. The US puts restrictions on freedoms, but it spells them out RIGHT IN THE CONSTITUTION for starters. The FSF talks about free software all over the place but doesn't talk about how it limits and restricts software. It's a blatent misrepresentation, IMO. Clearly YMV. > >Funny, an organization that doesn't believe in author's having > >IP rights goes and gets trademark protection. Nah, they're > >not hypocrites. Puhleez. > > What you believe is irrelevent in the real world. Just because I'd say not. In this real world what I believe just got you pissed off enough to respond. It got many others in the same agitated state. To that I say good. It pisses me to pleasure to think so. > some of us strive for Utopia doesn't mean we are going to start > sleeping with our doors unlocked. What the FSF does is just > simply prudent given the reality of things. Btw, see my sig for > another more historical example ;-) I disagree. I think it's a foolish thing because I look at misckit and see a better way where more people benefit. I think you're all greedy clutchers relatively speeking. > >> GNU software is a common ownership similar to your local > >> park. As such while I can go and enjoy my local park without > >> charge I'm not allowed to bring out my bulldozer and start > >> building my new estate. In other words for your local park > >> to exist as intended people have to agree to certain ground > >> rules. > >> > >> The fact that GNU software and your local park are owned in > >> common does not prevent anyone from profiting from it's > >> existence. At my local park for instance some guy sells hot > >> dogs and soft drinks out of a cart. > > > >Please, this analogy fails on many levels. > > > Please identify them one by one because your argument below barely > addresses my analogy. No. It addresses it just fine. It's not my duty to educate you Felipe. And with a piss poor attitude, you're pretty much ensuring I wont. It wouldn't hurt a bit for you to *try* and see if the arguments are reasonable before demanding proof as if you're OJ on trail saying that you're not guilty until shown to be so beyond any reasonable doubt. On the other hand it puts GNU in a kind of appropriate light, a criminal on trail, rather appropriate. > If I have a work that has > >tradesecrets in it, I can't integrate GNU stuff because then > >I'd have to disclose it and everyone would know my secrets. > > I guess that's the thing which kept NeXT from charging $5k per > developer seat? ;-) You know how misleading that is. Shame on you Felipe. You know they just included the GNU stuff for compiling, command line, etc. But didn't include a SINGLE line in the libraries or anything else they considered value added. Why, because it's limiting. That's what's kind of grating. You know your not representing things accuratly in some attempt to paint this crappy part of GNU in a good light. Why not say, look somethings in it are great, some suck. Let's try and fix the things that suck. Also, my competitors would > >just suck up all my knowhow and dupe the work I spent a lot of > >time on. For some projects this is fine and dandy. But for > >most companies this is not acceptable in a real free market > >system. GNU enjoys this part of the software community, the > >commercial part, and doesn't allow them into the park to play > >in the sand box with all the others. That's the fact. All > >the defensive explanations in the world wont change that. > > The list of commercial developers profiting from GNU works is > quite substantial. Besides NeXT, there's RedHat, Caldera...etc > ...etc Puhleez. None of it was integrated in any of the value added stuff. It's kept quite seperate and you know it. The fact that I copy and paste stuff from gnu emacs into an app I developed doesn't mean my program is a derivative of GNU work. It just means I'm using GNU software. And making a derivative and using are very different things now, aren't they. > And in fact even Oracle the second largest software company > recently committed to supporting GNU/Linux. Others already > supporting the platform include Informix. Supporting them and using using their code are very different things now arent they? If you hold your breath to see ORACLE code for their main databases you'll pass out. You are completely off base and you know it. > If the GNU GPL makes it so dfficult for a commercial software > vendor then please explain the above. They are not derivatives of any value added strategic product. Done. > >> > Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest > >> > of the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. > >> > >> Agreed, but then no one has claimed otherwise. > > > >I've seen many GNU BOZOs claim that PD software isn't given to > >the world because others who make *later* derivatives don't > >share their modifications. The logic of a rear end discharge > >from a dog employed their. > > How many times in one post are you going to rely on hearsay? Oh > wait this time you added a rude metaphor. Is that your proof? > :-) KISS MY PROOF! :) :) How you like that? :) If I HAD proof, and I do save those stupid exchanges, I WOULDN"T SHOW YOU. Know why? Because you're being a prick and I don't owe you anything. Not proof. Not an education. NOTHING. So since you're demanding something that you don't deserve, and not being pleasant about, and not interested in any meaningful exchange, you will get that. NOTHING. NO PROOF. I dont see you as my burdon whereby I have to provide proof to educate you. Feel free think otherewise. BTW, there are many forms of hearsay that are readily admissible in court. Admissions by a party opponent being one of them. > >> > GNU puts on restrictions, rather hypocritically. > >> > >> > >> Hypocrisy? What are you talking about? Is it hypocrisy to > >> decry the GNU GPL and then quietly use software distributed > >> under it? > > > >It's hypocrisy that the GNU manifesto believes that "software > >is so much fun to program that programmers really don't need > >to be paid [i.e. given consideration] because it's so much fun" > >but yet the GPL itself demands consideration (i.e. the restriction > >of distribution of derivative works). It's further hypocritical > >that the manifesto goes on to crap all over our IP laws, but > >then the GNU foundation goes on to secure IP rights like > >Trademarks et al. I really enjoy pointing this out over and > >over. > > Stating that one would like things to be a certain way does not > change the fact that you must live in the real world. But this > is very nearly irrelevnt because no one releases code per the > terms of the GNU manifesto. The GPL is a legal document not > philosophy. Right. And it's why I have stated NUMEROUS times my problem isn't so much with the GPL as it is with the GNU philosphy, it's hypocrisy, and misrepresentations. The GPL in and of itself is a fine tool. > And again I would point out that your paraphrasing will not win > any arguments. If something is in fact wrong point out the > specific passage and quote it verbatim. I did. But you know. I wont anymore. This kind of attitude almost deserves to be punished by its ignorance. If you think that it's the job of others to correct your problems in general or GNU's in particular, you may find in life that people wont care to bother. As a matter of fact, sometimes it's really fun to watch someone, if they are a royal prick, walking around with something in their teeth or their fly open. No one owes you the kindness of pointing out your problems. If on top of it you want to force them to convince you of your shortcommings, you'll find that many people won't bother and just tend to avoid you in their dealings. > >Again Felipe, I don't know if you read my other posts on this > >topic. But let me clarify a couple of things. 1) The GPL in > >and of itself is a fine license. There's nothing wrong with > >authors asking for this distribution restriction. My problem > >is with the hypocrisy of the manifesto and the average GNU > >bozo, and the misrepresentation that GNU software is free when > >it is not. > > > Now your changing your story. I can't form intelligent opinions > based on your perceptions of hypocricy or on what your heard, > thought your heard or for that matter your opinion regarding any > particular person who claimed to be a GNU bozo. No, it's my same story. I DEFY you to show otherwise. > If in fact you believe that the FSF is making false or misleading > statements regarding the GPL prove it with facts. > Why? It will only benefit people like you? Why pray tell should I bother? > 2) I think that despite its hypocritical acts, that GNU is an > >overall net win for people at large, and that there are tons > >of cool products made through GNU, and really cool and nice > >people that have done things for gnu. But I like to point out > >people that give their works away scott free via PD are being > >even more genereous. > > > > Again your tune seems different. Now GNU is a good thing? ;-) Overall. Sure. It's the same old tune. I've always said this. It doesn't fix the fact that it's still an arrogant, hypocritical misrepresenting entity. A lot like clinton. Overall for the economy, a good thing. Still he has many faults. > While I agree that people who release things into the PD are > generous how many software suites as complete and supported as > the GNU suite are out there. As a matter of fact the only complete > thing I can think of is BSD and it was not a volunteer effort > but rather a government funded work. Not quite so generous when > armed tax collectors enforce a governemt mandate to develop > something. ;-) > > Ok, ok I'm exagerating a bit. But you get the point. ;-) Like I said. I think there are a lot of good people involved in GNU and a lot of good products. I believe also, that there is a lot of hypocrisy and misrepresentation and arrogance. Especially by those that claim any kind of superiority to commercial software producers exacting consideration in light of the GPL exacting consideration as well. Not to mention mischaracterizations about authors that give to the PD as being somehow less giving then GNU authors, which is false. > Second, I, unlike that putz that wrote > >the manifesto, believe you are entitled to exact as much > >consideration for your work as you feel you want. And that > >includes, and I hope for you that you will be, getting rich > >from it if you so choose. > > I don't know Richard Stallman personally. But his opinions are > his own inalienable right whatever they might be. When I and > other write GNU code we sign on to the GNU GPL. Nothing more > and nothing less. That is a very nice way of looking at it. It would be even nicer if the organization as a whole were more upfront about it's products, which are not free, and about it's attitude. The GPL is a wondeful tool to accomplish what it wants. There are people that have different needs and need to employ different tools. Those people are in no way more evil than GNU authors. This kind of BOZO behaviour is a huge obnoxious turn off. It would be nice if there were less negative things about GNU, rather than just putting up with them. > >> If I develop something small like a class or a bug fix I'll > >> put it out as PD, but if I'm doing something big like gcc or > >> GNUstep then I expect protection and compensation. Compensation > >> comes in many forms but in the most common case I get more > >> software when someone adds something. > > > >Absolutely fair. Like I said, I don't have any problem with > >the GPL in and of itself; if it were extracted from the misleading > >"free" software advertising banted about it, and the hypocrisy > >and condescending attitude of that manifesto writer, it would > >be a pretty honest and very fair thing. As it is, GPL does > >many things nicely despite the bad things; i.e. the hypocrisy > >and misleading representations about it being free. > The farther we get into this the more it seems that your only > qualm is something percieved. Quite frankly I've read most of > the GNU documentation and I've never gotten your impression. We differ on that. Also, I personally think the misckit model is more genereous and effective. But if you want a good bit for getting that impression go to the philosophy section. Which by the way used to be called a manifesto and has since been seriously sanitized. Which is a good thing, I'd like to see the rest of the stupidity eradicated from it. It used to say that programming is so much fun that programmers shouldn't get paid for it. Now it says, in effect, that 35k is enough for a programmer, they really shouldn't make a killing at it. I find that obnoxious. > >> By employing the GPL I feel that I'm contributing to a common > >> wealth. A wealth that can't be usurped by any one individual > >> or corporation. It is not my goal to develop things so that > >> the wealthy can become wealthier through my labor and without > >> compensating me. > > > >Again, I think it's fine that you contribute something with > >the restriction on distribution of derivatives. Nothing at > >all wrong with it untill you try to sell me on the idea that > >the contribution or the byproduct is free. It's not. But just > >because it's not doesn't mean it's not a good thing. > > > And for the last time I'll ask for facts. Where exactly are you > getting the impression that GNU software is free. As I said I > don't even like the term. I prefer the term Open Source which RIGHT! Check their web page out for christ sake. They WANT and LIKE the term "free software." It's not. I don't like them using that term because it's a misrepresentation, IMO. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 00:25:02 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10564d89e0e7f6239896a6@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> In article <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > In article <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, > Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > Face it man, employers have you by the balls once you sign the > dotted line. You in effect give up rights to all your thoughts for > that paycheck. You may say that you had the choice not to sign. I > say though that that TYPE of practice should not be condoned and > even abolished. > > This "type" of practice is the entire basis for our current system. > Within our current system, abolishing this practice would effectively > abolish the system. Great idea. Abolish the system that has a weak foundation and start anew. "Getting one over on the next guy" is a shitty thing to base anything on. Which state can I have to prove the concept? :) Tony
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 00:30:13 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10564ebd2b06dd7c9896a7@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> In article <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > Analogy: Woman needs money, allows herself to be raped > (prostitution). Similarly an information worker agrees to being > mind-raped to get income. > > What's your point? First off, by definition, a woman cannot "allow > herself to be raped". "Sexual intercourse with a woman by a man > without her consent". She may decide that ceasing resistance is the > best way to come out alive, but that's hardly allowing rape. I needed something on the order of ugliness that pervades people's behaviour in corporate settings. While maybe a weak analogy, the practices are clearly in the same realm and describes the imposition of will upon others (done as to insure being clearly in a "grey" area of course, such is the "art") to gain someone else's personal virtues. Categorize yourselves. Tony
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 00:39:56 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.1056510ab99036ca9896a8@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> In article <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > Beyond that, companies do not remove your ideas by force. Sure they do. Companies routinely require that you sign away all, even unrelated ideas to the company. In effect this dissallows ownership. Isn't that slavery? I think so. Surely it's not freedom! > I've had > plenty of ideas which I kept my mouth shut on while in the employ of a > client who I did not think "deserved" the idea. Say that too many times and you'll be out of a job too. > There's no mind control involved, here. On the contrary. It's all mind control. Hence the value of young people in the mix. They're easy to manipulate. Haven't you had ANY mgmt experience? > You do have a choice. You > can choose to make a given amount of money in exchange for your idea, > or you can go for the brass ring and become an entrepreneur. And the unfair advantage that big business has is the deterrent. If we're going to have a government, it may as well be useful. The small individual shouldn't be sacrificed in favor of the big bullies. > As an > entrepreneur, you might make a million bucks - and you might end up > destitute. > > I'm entirely self-employed, and let me tell you, being entirely in > charge of your own future isn't any cakewalk. But it could be made much easier if the politics of keeping those in power who are now wasn't the primary concern. Overall: it's just a shitty system that's maintained by those who know how to manipulate it. Tony
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <DJ_G1.10856$dV6.70066@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Control: cancel <DJ_G1.10856$dV6.70066@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Date: 01 Sep 1998 22:45:58 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.DJ_G1.10856$dV6.70066@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Sender: veritas@mindspring.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 00:42:38 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> In article <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > > proprietary software). > > Exactly! Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep them a secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. So what if GPL can be characterized better by "date rape". It's still evil. Tony
From: David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 01:25:15 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> wrote: >> > Finally, the GNU project doesn't make you give things back. People >> > who don't contribute to the GNU project arn't hunted down by >> > snipers :) >> > The GNU GPL is already perfect. ..snip.. > Only materiali$tic, immoral scums can follow Kheit's way of thinking. > Platonists, Neopythagoreans and other supreme people don't. So would you like to share what it is you do for a living and what it is that you you are getting paid for that you should be giving away for free??
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMw4r.M3A@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:58:03 GMT In article <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com>, John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> wrote: >What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition they are nothing >but leeches on the work of others. Sounds like you are in the Bill Gates camp. Fine, we know where you stand. But realize almost all users and companies are leeches, either directly or indirectly. You should stay away from BSD, MIT or FSF style copyrights. >The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any works made >under it. Oh my, really? I never knew that! What else do you know about it? Could you please count the number of times this has been said in the past year om these forums? Is there anybody out there that doesn't know this yet? Is this your only complaint with it? Don't you have an original complaint to level against the GPL?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMxEs.vI@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s6q9b$1u7$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:25:39 GMT In article <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: >I wrote: >Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right >to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. Sorry Joe, you loose. Everything is legal, everything, anything that you can think of, and anything that you want to do, unless there is a specific law against it. The question is not, find the place where such a right is granted, but rather, find a place where such a right is taken away, that my good friend, falls upon your shoulders to find, not ours. Now, I know why you think what you do, I just read the GPL, and it leds on to the conclusion you have. But, if you analyze it, try and find _why_ you cannot meet the terms of the GPL, hint, you trivially can, you'll figure out why he said what he did. Because there are no real limits on your freedom to modify it inhouse, the term `unrestricted' does fit.
From: "Alex Molochnikov" <alex@gestalt.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: IconBuilder for Rhapsody Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:12:55 -0600 Organization: Canada Connect Corp. Message-ID: <6si7j1$3np$1@cleavage.canuck.com> Does anyone know if an equivalent of IconBuilder exists for Rhapsody DR2, or is at least planned by Apple or a third party for CR1? I am looking for a simple tool to build/edit icons in TIFF format. Thanks for any info. Alex Molochnikov alex@gestalt.com
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 1 Sep 1998 22:03:26 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6sichu$2rh$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86n28nogze.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6sa0ni$50j$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <86hfyuo2au.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> In article <86hfyuo2au.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>, Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >* Leslie Mikesell >| The "exception" for modules is not really a statement that the GPL >| does not apply to the code in this case but is instead a definition >| of the linkage between modules and the rest of the kernel that >| asserts that the combination is not a 'derived work' as it would >| be in a monolithic kernel. As such it doesn't require any disclaimers >| from other GPL authors. The legality of this interpretation is >| still untested, but I don't see how anyone can deny that Linus is >| an expert in this particular field. > >I would not go to Linus for legal counsel in a copyright case; why >would I trust him to talk about what is/isn't a derived work? If the details are ever decided in a court case it should be done on the basis of expert testimony regarding which interfaces make the result a single work and which don't. I don't see how you can dismiss Linus as an expert on the workings of the module interface. >Another issue is that, if I've understood the precendents correctly, >it is not allowed to claim copyright on a formal interface. You are >allowed to clone an interface, and you are allowed to write to an >interface without that influencing the copyright on the code that use >the interface. I don't know how formal the interface has to be for >this to be true; the interface an LKM use is very fuzzy, and I don't >see writing something as an LKM as being very different from compiling >the same code into the monolithic kernel and distributing only the >object code for the code in question. The point is not about a copyright on the interface itself but whether code on one side of the interface can claim ownership of code on the other side by saying that they become a single work when used together, thus making the other a derived work. It is pretty well accepted that programs that use pipes or other IPC mechanisms as their interfaces to each other are unaffected by each other's copyrights. The GPL makes the claim that linking GPL'd code to any non-standard library makes the combined work subject to the GPL in its entirety. It even makes this claim about distributing code separately with the 'intent' to link them after distribution, and linking to shared libraries. These claims seem pretty dubious to me - and things are likely to get worse in the world of distributed objects. >In other words, I believe the statement doesn't say much, and that >you'd have to investigate the issues either way, but probably would be >able to distribute some types of code without being influenced by the >GPL. It is at least pretty clear that Linus' declaration give you no >firmer footing than you would have otherwise. It is pretty fuzzy any way you look at it, but there is no well recognized expert insisting a shared library should not change its ownership or distribution restrictions because of some other piece of code that links to it any more than code that interacts through pipes, files or shared memory. However given such a spokesperson for the LKM interface it would seem unlikely that anyone would expect to win a legal challenge to the contrary. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <01099823.1456@Nude.Here.com> Control: cancel <01099823.1456@Nude.Here.com> Date: 02 Sep 1998 03:15:05 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.01099823.1456@Nude.Here.com> Sender: Dana.Delany@Nude.Here.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 22:15:05 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s6q9b$1u7$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> In article <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: >I wrote: >>> Access and use are completely unrestricted. Only distribution and >>> modification are restricted. > >David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >>Modification is not restricted, sorry. The *only* thing the GPL >>regulates is distribution (and the distribution of modified versions >>has to adhere to the same rules as the distribution of unmodified >>versions). > >Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right >to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. The GPL >repeatedly states that modification can only be done under the terms >of the license. As a license the GPL is not binding unless both parties agree to it. It is the copyright that restricts distribution, with the exception that it is allowed if you agree to the terms of the license. If you don't distribute, you aren't bound by the license. A distributor could force recipients to agree to the license as a condition of getting a copy, but if they don't there is no reason to agree to the terms unilaterally later unless you need to meet the terms of the copyright for further distribution. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMxLv.1JH@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:29:55 GMT In article <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net>, <yourconscience@work.net> wrote: >GPL proponents are in the same category of personalities as >date rapists. Wow, cool, I've never seen this leveled against us. Cool! Care to back it up? Or do you just pull this line when you run out of intelligent things to say? A complete analysis will include a control, that includes the GPL opponents and shows that they aren't in the same category of personalities as date rapists.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMxx4.1wr@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:36:40 GMT In article <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net>, Tim Smith <tzs@halcyon.com> wrote: >With your code, if I spend months working on it, making great >contributions, and then want to take some small part, just a few >hundred lines, and put it in my 100k line program, I have to release >my whole program under GPL. That's a steep price, and it will keep >some programmers away from contributing to your code. What part of `we don't want your help, if you want to hoard' didn't you understand? Yes, it is a steep price, but those are the terms we want you to agree to, for helping you with your code. If you don't value our help, you can write your own code. We don't care if you don't want to share.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMy4L.27u@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:41:09 GMT In article <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org>, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> wrote: >Anyone who creates intellectual property autimatically has the >copyright to what they have created. The only way to lose that right >is to explicitly sign it over, which is something that most people do >not do. Well, speak for your own idyllic part of the world. Over here in the US, where I'll venture a guess that most good software is written, nearly all of people that write software for a living sign a legal and binding document that give the rights to what they write to someone else. Sorry.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyMyG7.328@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3u32z4a4e.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <m3emu3cahh.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:48:07 GMT In article <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net>, Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM> wrote: >To add code to an existing work creates a derived work; copyright to >the derived work is held by the original creator. Nope. It is held by both parties. If you disagree, please quote something.
From: Axel Boldt <axel@uni-paderborn.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 02 Sep 1998 05:37:01 +0200 Organization: none Message-ID: <xzq1zpv89sy.fsf@uni-paderborn.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <m2hfyt19x8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > "Ryan Drake" <rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com> writes: > > > Tony wrote in message ... > > > > > >Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. > > >Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've > > >reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. > > >Or something similar. > > > > That's a pretty scary idea... What if someone makes a million a year just in > > intrest from investments? Should they be banned from working? And where > > should all the extra money left over that they didnt get to have go? > > It would also mean that, say, top Formula 1 race pilots would have to > retire after a few minutes into their first race in a year. Which is > not bound to make sports more interesting. I'm pretty sure that they love what they're doing and would continue to drive for free. At least some would, and those are the ones I want to watch anyway. -- Axel Boldt ** axel@uni-paderborn.de ** math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/
From: Axel Boldt <axel@uni-paderborn.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 02 Sep 1998 05:43:43 +0200 Organization: none Message-ID: <xzqzpcj6uxc.fsf@uni-paderborn.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6s6q9b$1u7$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: > >I wrote: > >>> Access and use are completely unrestricted. Only distribution and > >>> modification are restricted. > > > >David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > >>Modification is not restricted, sorry. The *only* thing the GPL > >>regulates is distribution (and the distribution of modified versions > >>has to adhere to the same rules as the distribution of unmodified > >>versions). > > > >Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right > >to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. The GPL > >repeatedly states that modification can only be done under the terms > >of the license. > > As a license the GPL is not binding unless both parties agree to it. > It is the copyright that restricts distribution, with the exception > that it is allowed if you agree to the terms of the license. If you > don't distribute, you aren't bound by the license. That's false; as soon as you make a copy you are bound by the license, because without the license, you wouldn't have the right to make a copy, let alone a modification. Copyright law governs under what circumstances you can make copies as the name suggests. And usually, you can't. Distribution matters only in sofar as it increases the possible penalty. -- Axel Boldt ** axel@uni-paderborn.de ** math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Eyn3xq.95A@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <6s4pui$5ls@ascetic.portal.ca> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:46:38 GMT In article <6s4pui$5ls@ascetic.portal.ca>, Curt Sampson <cjs@ascetic.portal.ca> wrote: >In article <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk>, >Mark Wooding <mdw@ebi.ac.uk> wrote: >>I happen to agree with rms that restrictive licences are immoral.... > >Last I checked, the GPL was a restrictive license. Yes, you noticed that did you? Congratulations. >It places more restrictions on you than a BSD licence (especially if >section 3 is removed, which is getting more popular), and without >question is more restrictive than putting your code in the public >domain. Yes. But even though it is restrictive, it is the one that gives the most freedom to code. More freedom than PD, more freedom than BSD. You see, there is so much freedom contained in it, that people are not free to make it not free, ever. With PD code, people are free to make the code not free. With BSD code, people are free to make the code not free. This _is_ the difference. Further, the license is just about as unrestrictive as possible, and still retain this centeral concept of freedom.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Eyn3AD.8C2@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:32:37 GMT In article <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Tony <Tony@ask.me> wrote: He, Tony, maybe you can answer this one, how do all the mindless bozos post anonymously?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:27:55 GMT In article <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net>, Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM> wrote: >Step 3. Maintain, repair, and upgrade. > >GPL vs BSD: No difference. A flavor of the development cycle with a >different focus and pace. I might disagree some. It isn't a major point, but my feeling is because companies can't hijack the code if it is GPLed but than can if is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code will tend to be higher. >Step 4. Avoid litigation. In the case at hand, the interesting aspect is >meeting the license terms of the code base. > >GPL: Source of derived work must be supplied to all who request it. False. Overgeneralization. If a company bundles source and binaries, they never have to provide source to anyone for any reason, ever. Most people work this way. >Step 5. Do not transfer work from competitors to yourself. > >GPL: BSD work plus a reference implementation is delivered to the >competition. While trying to amortize Step 1 costs in Step 2, you've >simultaneously reduced their Step 1 costs drastically. > >Conclusions. > >1. Under this proposed SPECopen99 benchmark, GPL and BSD software flavors >would be closely matched if not for Step 5. Invalid conclusion. Please re-analyze. Please explain how the competition is going to touch GPLed code with a ten foot poll. They aren't, it scares them silly, and it will pull them in and swallow them whole if they even look at it wrong. If you disagree, explain how Diab or Metaware or Microsoft uses gcc to complete against people that sell gcc, such as Cygnus. Hint, they don't. Now, if they do, no problem, then it is you two against the rest of the world. Every advancement they make, you get for free (yes, I know the cost, and I know it isn't free). If you're equally sized, this makes you twice and fit as the company that isn't doing this, and we all know what happens to unfit individuals, they die. It is the last that makes me think that GPLed software is the right way to go. Not because companies want to, but because if they don't, they will die. We're still 50 years out, from my crystal ball.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Eyn36I.883@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:30:18 GMT In article <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Tony <Tony@ask.me> wrote: >Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep them a >secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. You must be really confused, nobody is forcing disclosure. You can choose to disclose if you want to, or not. That is _your_ choice, but, if you do disclose, and the code isn't yours, you must disclose all. You are so confused, it's kinda fun... But I do wish you could come up with something more inventive, these are just too easy. And body got any goo conspiracy theories, like the FSF is really a wholly own subsidiary of Microsoft? I mean, they do require copyright assignment to them for some programs, don't they? I think that would be more interesting to discuss because it is harder to disprove, harder to challenge. :-)
Sender: klaus@debian Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> From: Klaus Schilling <Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de> Date: 02 Sep 1998 06:46:30 +0200 Message-ID: <87yas3ceag.fsf@ivm.de> Organization: IVM GmbH Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > In article <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > > mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > > > > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > > > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > > > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > > > proprietary software). > > > > Exactly! > > Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep > them a secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. So > what if GPL can be characterized better by "date rape". It's still evil. All lies. The GNU GPL suggests the only just way to deal with software. Only satanistic bastards justify nondisclosure. Klaus Schilling
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 98 21:01:20 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Sep1210120@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1056510ab99036ca9896a8@netnews.worldnet.att.net> In-reply-to: Tony@ask.me's message of 2 Sep 1998 00:39:56 GMT In article <MPG.1056510ab99036ca9896a8@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: In article <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > Beyond that, companies do not remove your ideas by force. Sure they do. Companies routinely require that you sign away all, even unrelated ideas to the company. In effect this dissallows ownership. Isn't that slavery? I think so. Surely it's not freedom! People routinely do a _lot_ of stuff. That doesn't change the point at all. People routinely make the minimum payment on their credit cards - I don't, and I reap the rewards of not doing so. If we lived in a world where you couldn't sell rights to specific pieces of your intellectual property to your employer, people would screw up their lives in some other way. I, for one, feel that we can't babysit people their entire lives. > I've had plenty of ideas which I kept my mouth shut on while in > the employ of a client who I did not think "deserved" the idea. Say that too many times and you'll be out of a job too. Why? Every one of my clients has been informed of this fact in no uncertain terms. It hasn't bothered them enough to not bring me onboard. Of course, if I said that I was going to take ideas related to their bread and butter, which I would only have had due to my work on their product, they might feel differently. There is a subtle difference, there (fortunately for me, I'm able to ponder problems in unrelated areas without frying my brain. Amazing, that). > There's no mind control involved, here. On the contrary. It's all mind control. Hence the value of young people in the mix. They're easy to manipulate. Haven't you had ANY mgmt experience? Jesus. What's your point? Just because some people can't control their own careers doesn't mean it's _impossible_ to control your own career. > As an entrepreneur, you might make a million bucks - and you > might end up destitute. > > I'm entirely self-employed, and let me tell you, being entirely > in charge of your own future isn't any cakewalk. But it could be made much easier if the politics of keeping those in power who are now wasn't the primary concern. Well, you didn't mention Roswell, yet, but as far as I'm concerned you've just pushed this sub-thread past the point of no return, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 2 Sep 1998 07:41:39 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net> <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com>, mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) writes: > In article <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net>, > Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM> wrote: >>Step 3. Maintain, repair, and upgrade. >> >>GPL vs BSD: No difference. A flavor of the development cycle with a >>different focus and pace. > > I might disagree some. It isn't a major point, but my feeling is > because companies can't hijack the code if it is GPLed but than can if > is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code will tend to be > higher. > The term "hijack" is non-operative here. Once code is released, the terms for redistribution are hard to "take back." Therefore, there is almost no way that BSD licensed code can be hijacked. Given that, the "advantage" that GPLed code cannot be "hijacked" is specious. If one considers that an inventive person who adds significant value to a piece of code is "hijacking" already released and freed code by not redistributing the source code created by his inventiveness, then the word "hijack" isn't correct. The only hijacking or restriction is that done by those who originally pre-ordained encumberance any new works that weren't created by those who chose the bogus (GPL) license. Remember, the originally created works cannot be easily "de-released." The dark cloud associated with GPL is associated with the virus like encumberance of new creations and additions. I suspect the only "hijacking" going on here, is the "hijacking" of terms such as "hijack" and "free." -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
From: Paul Vigay <pvigay@bohunt.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:48:54 +0100 Organization: Bohunt Community School Message-ID: <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII In article <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk>, Adrian Jackson <URL:mailto:adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: > > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: > > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with > > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) > > > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! > > Strange but true. > > Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 Ahhh, but you'll need to upgrade the roads in order to run them. Only $100.00 per wheel. -- Paul Vigay Acorn Programming, __\\|//__ Internet Consultancy http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design -----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------------- Fighting for the decline and elimination of Microsoft!
From: Steve Matty <steven.matty@ZgecmX.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:29:27 -0700 Organization: Waterlooville Message-ID: <35ED8077.3C3F@ZgecmX.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Jackson wrote: > Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: > > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: > > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with > > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) > > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! > Strange but true. > Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 Wheels which are also able to turn should be available in Service Pack 3 Steve.
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 1 Sep 1998 04:00:12 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10552e6f393bf1bf989692@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> In article <6se7oh$1dl1@bugsbunny.matrox.com>, rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com says... > Tony wrote in message ... > >In article <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com>, > >scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > >> I taking "a totalitarian system of government in which a single > >> authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the > >> professed aim of establishing a stateless society" to be the > >> definition. There are other options, but none of them have been put > >> into wide practice. [Specifically, definitions such as "a system in > >> which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed" > >> clearly have never occurred in real life.] > > > >Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. > >Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've > >reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. > >Or something similar. No, better yet: everyone gets paid their age (or the age they act like ;)). 30 yrs old? Then you get 30k/yr no matter what you do or how much of it you do. Spend it wisely. :) Tony
From: far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 12:00:30 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6sjc0u$glc@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> In article <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: >far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: >> In article <6sh29b$2nl$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit snip >> you're going to need facts to back up your statements. I would > >And I don't see myself inside a court room and no one is paying me my hourly >fee for this, so I see no need to put on a case. Given how weak and unsubstantiated your arguments have been I wouldn't quit my day job ;-) >This is knowledge that you >can use or ignore. What knowledge? You've presented no facts and skirted all of my points. snip >> like to see which specific passsage from an official FSF document >> lead you to believe the GPL might mean free as in PD. Or for >> that matter any of the other claims you've made. > >Let's start with the name. ****FREE**** SOFTWARE FOUNDATION. Then go to >their web page and see how often the term FREE SOFTWARE is banted about when >the software in question is not free. > Their use of the term "free" is hardly proof. You know as well as I that this particular word has many meanings and connotations. Is it the FSF's fault that you only associate it one way? I am a free individual living in a free country. Does this mean I'm free to yell fire in a crowded theater or rob people at gun point? >A snip: >http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html >"Free software is a matter of freedom, not price. But proprietary software >companies sometimes use the term ``free software'' to refer to price. >Sometimes they mean that you can obtain a binary copy at no charge; sometimes >they mean that a copy is included on a computer that you are buying. This has >nothing to do with what we mean by free software in the GNU project. > >Because of this potential confusion, when a software company says its product >is free software, always check the actual distribution terms to see whether >users really have all the freedoms that free software implies. Sometimes it >really is free software; sometimes it isn't. " > >Yea, it doesn't mention that the user should check that GNU itself puts a >restriction on distribution. The entire site, and many of the people >involved do a great deal to obfuscate that in fact, GNU software is far from >free. > They are trying to make a point in a philosophy paper and you're upset that they didn't explain their own license in the same two paragraphs? >Here's another misrepresentation IMO (on the same page): > >"Open Source software >The term ``open source'' software is used by some people to mean more or less >the same thing as free software. We prefer the term ``free software'' ; >follow that link to see the reasons." > >If you follow the links it makes OpenSource seem less free than GNU. And if >I understand it, OpenSource is a license much like the MiscKit, which in fact >is less encumbered than GPL software. The entire implication is that GNU >"free software" is more free, when in fact it has greater restrictions. This >kind of hypocrisy is axiomatic of the entire GNU effort. > And in fact you do not understand what Open Source means. Try the following: http://www.opensource.org/osd.html The name that anyone prefers is irrelevant. I prefer "Open Source" but distribution is per a legal document. The GNU GPL. snip >> Again this is a problem of your perception. I've never thought >> of GNU software as being free in the sense of PD. > >Good for you. That doesn't mean that many others don't. I have on *many* >such fights in usenet heard idiots talking about how PD software is less free >than GPL software when GPL software has greater restrictions. Why, because >most don't bother to read or understand the licensing issues involved and >just see "free software foundation." > So basically your arguing that everything must be done to the least common denominator. Rather pathetic wouldn't you say? If someone doesn't read the license that's their problem and liability. > >> >> >Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. >> >> >> >> Nonsense. I as a developer of GNU software attach the strings >> >> because it is my right and FREEDOM to do so. If you don't >> >> like my strings... >> > >> >I don't have to use it. Right. But that doesn't make your >> >work *free*. It's nonsense to say what you are saying. You >> >made something and if I don't want to pay the 8billion dollars >> >you want for it I'm free not to buy it, but your item is far >> >from free. To obtain your item I must *pay* you something. I >> >must give you consideration. If I want your gnu work I must >> >give you consideration, it's not free for the taking otherwise >> >as is PD software. >> >> Again a problem of your perception without any facts backing it >> up. > >Who said I'm proving a case? I could give a flying dingle crap if you think >I proved a case or not. If I've pissed you off enough to enter into this >little banter with me, as far as I'm concerned that's proof enough that I've >hit some kind of defensive chord. That's proof enough for me. I know enough >for *me*. That *you* are not convinced doesn't bother or affect me in the >least. After going through the effort to explain things, and you don't want >to see them. Fine. Your willful blindness to it is not going to bother me. >Not at all. I'm doing it in the hopes it will make things better, for >everyone's sake, but if it falls on deaf ears. Oh well, so swell. It's >kinda obnoxious that I somehow not only should show you things that might >help you out, but now have a duty of convincing you. I don't. You won't. >That's life. Take it for what it's worth. If you think my points are >without merit, fine, it shouldn't razz your panties me being as stupid and >off base as I just must be. > John, I entered into this thread not because I was upset at you but rather because I thought you were a reasonable person capable of discussing facts. Given your above vitriolic statements along with your refusal to tackle my points I'm guessing that in fact my arguments have made you feel angry and cornered ;-) snip >> And btw, "EVERYWHERE!" is not proof. Show us a specific passage. > >I did. And what specific passage do you need when the place is called "FREE >SOFTWARE FOUNDATION"? Yes. The US puts restrictions on freedoms, but it >spells them out RIGHT IN THE CONSTITUTION for starters. The FSF talks about >free software all over the place but doesn't talk about how it limits and >restricts software. It's a blatent misrepresentation, IMO. Clearly YMV. > The GPL is the equivalent of the US constituion in your analogy. > >> >Funny, an organization that doesn't believe in author's having >> >IP rights goes and gets trademark protection. Nah, they're >> >not hypocrites. Puhleez. >> >> What you believe is irrelevent in the real world. Just because > >I'd say not. In this real world what I believe just got you pissed off >enough to respond. It got many others in the same agitated state. To that I >say good. It pisses me to pleasure to think so. > I'm afraid you give yourself and this libelous rant of yours too much credit. In fact I find your statements both amusing and sad. Amusing because they seem to be without foundation and based purely on your misperceptions. Sad because you've repeatedly chosen to skirt my points and avoided the use of facts just to try and make a point. > >> some of us strive for Utopia doesn't mean we are going to start >> sleeping with our doors unlocked. What the FSF does is just >> simply prudent given the reality of things. Btw, see my sig for >> another more historical example ;-) > >I disagree. I think it's a foolish thing because I look at misckit and see a >better way where more people benefit. I think you're all greedy clutchers >relatively speeking. > Yah, but you use the software developed by all of us "greedy clutchers" anyway. Right? :-) :-) And it's not like you're a hypocrite right? ;-) >> >> GNU software is a common ownership similar to your local >> >> park. As such while I can go and enjoy my local park without >> >> charge I'm not allowed to bring out my bulldozer and start >> >> building my new estate. In other words for your local park >> >> to exist as intended people have to agree to certain ground >> >> rules. >> >> >> >> The fact that GNU software and your local park are owned in >> >> common does not prevent anyone from profiting from it's >> >> existence. At my local park for instance some guy sells hot >> >> dogs and soft drinks out of a cart. >> > >> >Please, this analogy fails on many levels. >> >> >> Please identify them one by one because your argument below barely >> addresses my analogy. > >No. It addresses it just fine. It's not my duty to educate you Felipe. And >with a piss poor attitude, you're pretty much ensuring I wont. It wouldn't >hurt a bit for you to *try* and see if the arguments are reasonable before >demanding proof as if you're OJ on trail saying that you're not guilty until >shown to be so beyond any reasonable doubt. On the other hand it puts GNU in >a kind of appropriate light, a criminal on trail, rather appropriate. > John, did you forget that you are the one making the libelous claims? > >> If I have a work that has >> >tradesecrets in it, I can't integrate GNU stuff because then >> >I'd have to disclose it and everyone would know my secrets. >> >> I guess that's the thing which kept NeXT from charging $5k per >> developer seat? ;-) > >You know how misleading that is. Shame on you Felipe. You know they just >included the GNU stuff for compiling, command line, etc. But didn't include >a SINGLE line in the libraries or anything else they considered value added. >Why, because it's limiting. That's what's kind of grating. You know your >not representing things accuratly in some attempt to paint this crappy part >of GNU in a good light. Why not say, look somethings in it are great, some >suck. Let's try and fix the things that suck. > It is not misleading. You can in fact release and sell completely proprietaty and closed software that runs on a GNU/Linux system, employs the systems libraries ...etc. On the other hand if you want to take something like GIMP, add a couple of dozen lines of code and think that you can now compete against Adobe Photoshop you've got another thing coming. It is not the goal of GPL authors to allow individuals and corporations to usurp the competitive advantage of companies such as Adobe that have spent many millions developing their products. If you want to write a Photoshop killer and keep the code closed then you'll just have to make the necessary investment. snip >Puhleez. None of it was integrated in any of the value added stuff. It's >kept quite seperate and you know it. The fact that I copy and paste stuff >from gnu emacs into an app I developed doesn't mean my program is a >derivative of GNU work. It just means I'm using GNU software. And making a >derivative and using are very different things now, aren't they. > >> And in fact even Oracle the second largest software company >> recently committed to supporting GNU/Linux. Others already >> supporting the platform include Informix. > >Supporting them and using using their code are very different things now >arent they? If you hold your breath to see ORACLE code for their main >databases you'll pass out. You are completely off base and you know it. > In order for Oracle 8 to run on a GNU/Linux system it will need to use the systems' libraries. The majority of commericical vendors do not need anything more than that. And it's well within the bounds of the GPL. > >> If the GNU GPL makes it so dfficult for a commercial software >> vendor then please explain the above. > >They are not derivatives of any value added strategic product. Done. > I never said or implied they were. My only point is that it is very easy for a commercial vendor to sell his product on top of a GNU/Linux system. > >> >> > Software donated to the PD is free. It's free for the rest >> >> > of the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. >> >> >> >> Agreed, but then no one has claimed otherwise. >> > >> >I've seen many GNU BOZOs claim that PD software isn't given to >> >the world because others who make *later* derivatives don't >> >share their modifications. The logic of a rear end discharge >> >from a dog employed their. >> >> How many times in one post are you going to rely on hearsay? Oh >> wait this time you added a rude metaphor. Is that your proof? >> :-) > >KISS MY PROOF! :) :) How you like that? :) If I HAD proof, and I do save >those stupid exchanges, I WOULDN"T SHOW YOU. Know why? Because you're being >a prick and I don't owe you anything. Not proof. Not an education. >NOTHING. So since you're demanding something that you don't deserve, and not >being pleasant about, and not interested in any meaningful exchange, you will >get that. NOTHING. NO PROOF. I dont see you as my burdon whereby I have to >provide proof to educate you. Feel free think otherewise. BTW, there are >many forms of hearsay that are readily admissible in court. Admissions by a >party opponent being one of them. > > :-) Your response is why I rarely get into or even read these threads anymore. Many like you above resort to rude pointless banter. I guess your proof is exactly where I thought it was. Locked in a little box under your bed (along with information hidden by the Warren Commision :-) snip >> And again I would point out that your paraphrasing will not win >> any arguments. If something is in fact wrong point out the >> specific passage and quote it verbatim. > >I did. But you know. I wont anymore. This kind of attitude almost deserves >to be punished by its ignorance. If you think that it's the job of others to >correct your problems in general or GNU's in particular, you may find in life John, you've made libelous statements. The burden of proof is on you as the accuser. snip >> Now your changing your story. I can't form intelligent opinions >> based on your perceptions of hypocricy or on what your heard, >> thought your heard or for that matter your opinion regarding any >> particular person who claimed to be a GNU bozo. > >No, it's my same story. I DEFY you to show otherwise. > At the begining of this post you're making claims of hypocricy and using rude metaphors. Now you seem content to acknowledge that the GPL is a good thing. Yes, that does sound like a different tune. Like saying the Communists were evil murderous people but their goals were noble. Sure the one does not preclude the other but it does sound very different. > >> If in fact you believe that the FSF is making false or misleading >> statements regarding the GPL prove it with facts. >> >Why? It will only benefit people like you? Why pray tell should I bother? > It is quite clear that we disagree on this. I am of the opinion that if one makes a seemingly libelous claim that said individual should feel compelled to back it up. You obviously feel you don't need to back it up because you're John Kheit... ;-) > >> 2) I think that despite its hypocritical acts, that GNU is an >> >overall net win for people at large, and that there are tons >> >of cool products made through GNU, and really cool and nice >> >people that have done things for gnu. But I like to point out >> >people that give their works away scott free via PD are being >> >even more genereous. >> > >> >> Again your tune seems different. Now GNU is a good thing? ;-) > >Overall. Sure. It's the same old tune. I've always said this. It doesn't >fix the fact that it's still an arrogant, hypocritical misrepresenting >entity. A lot like clinton. Overall for the economy, a good thing. Still >he has many faults. > There is a very significant difference between the passive role Clinton plays in the economy and the active role provided by the FSF and it's developers. If Clinton disappears tomorrow the US economy will not skip a beat. snip >Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... >_________________________________________________________________ >UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK > mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com > http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit > You're dangerous because you're honest... -- Felipe A. Rodriguez # Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan from Agoura Hills, CA # being a private citizen because he was # armed; his successors, since they avoided far@ix.netcom.com # the inconveniences of arms, became private (NeXTmail preferred) # citizens after having been dukes. (MIMEmail welcome) # --Nicolo Machiavelli
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From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 13:56:53 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6sjir5$r2b$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6sjc0u$glc@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: > In article <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit > <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > Given how weak and unsubstantiated your arguments have been I > wouldn't quit my day job ;-) That is my day job. Given how weak your mental process is, I'd concentrate on coherently forming a slam. > >This is knowledge that you > >can use or ignore. > > > What knowledge? You've presented no facts and skirted all of my > points. An argument or an idea is knowledge. E=mc^2 was an argument and an idea, unproven when it was first put out. It was useful for those that chose to *THINK* about it. Now my ideas may suck, and are certainly no E=mc^2, but they offer something for those that care to employ their brains. Clearly you have discounted them, fine. I have addressed each and every one of your points. You have chosen not to accept them. Your dumb and pompous posturing to the contrary, you have kept your mind closed to the notion. It's one thing to take something in and say I disagree, but you're being a whole different color of dumb prick. Congratulations, it's an appropriate hue for you. > >Let's start with the name. ****FREE**** SOFTWARE FOUNDATION. > >Then go to their web page and see how often the term FREE > >SOFTWARE is banted about when the software in question is not > >free. > Their use of the term "free" is hardly proof. You know as well > as I that this particular word has many meanings and connotations. > Is it the FSF's fault that you only associate it one way? They go on for pages talking about how free doesn't just mean cost, but more. And never once mention restriction. It's not only my interpretation but others. Free with relation to goods means, "without consideration." Or without restrictions. That's the common use of the word with regard to goods by most people. And most people get upset when the word "free" is used in some sly way, and the goods do in fact have some restriction. Most people feel they were mislead. YMMV. > I am a free individual living in a free country. Does this mean > I'm free to yell fire in a crowded theater or rob people at gun > point? That's not what the constitution says. > They are trying to make a point in a philosophy paper and you're > upset that they didn't explain their own license in the same two > paragraphs? There philosphy is hypocritical. And it's misleading. And arrogant. And condescending. You know, much like yourself. I see the reason for the affinity. > And in fact you do not understand what Open Source means. Try > the following: > > http://www.opensource.org/osd.html > > The name that anyone prefers is irrelevant. I prefer "Open > Source" but distribution is per a legal document. The GNU GPL. Thanks, its another GPL variant. Blah. Doesn't change the fact that their use of the term free is misleading. OpenSource is not. > >Good for you. That doesn't mean that many others don't. I > >have on *many* such fights in usenet heard idiots talking about > >how PD software is less free than GPL software when GPL software > >has greater restrictions. Why, because most don't bother to > >read or understand the licensing issues involved and just see > >"free software foundation." > So basically your arguing that everything must be done to the > least common denominator. Rather pathetic wouldn't you say? If > someone doesn't read the license that's their problem and liability. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people shouldn't be arrogant pricks if they can help it. They shouldn't misrepresent things if they can help it. And they shouldn't be hypocrites if they can help it. > John, I entered into this thread not because I was upset at you > but rather because I thought you were a reasonable person capable > of discussing facts. Given your above vitriolic statements along > with your refusal to tackle my points I'm guessing that in fact > my arguments have made you feel angry and cornered ;-) God, what a bore you are. You bore me with that drivel. It's such meek, meek, meek shit that it just bores me. Is your ego that depressed that you'd need the above to be true. I answered your points. You either chose to ignore them for rhetorical deflated ego purposes, or didn't comprehend them. I doubt it's the latter. If you think I'll bother to build a case for you for free, you're dreaming. I gave plenty ideas to chew on, whether you agree with them or not. Your assertion that proof must be offered when sharing ideas is asinine, and is the typical resort of a defensive person in usenet that is generally on the losing end of an argument. It's one thing if I assert, GNU is stealing people's money, and I'm not. And another to assert I believe they are hypocritical and would be better if they weren't. One being an assertion of fact, the other my opinion. I don't need to *prove* my opinion. It's offered for you to think about, or not. > >I did. And what specific passage do you need when the place > >is called "FREE SOFTWARE FOUNDATION"? Yes. The US puts > >restrictions on freedoms, but it spells them out RIGHT IN THE > >CONSTITUTION for starters. The FSF talks about free software > >all over the place but doesn't talk about how it limits and > >restricts software. It's a blatent misrepresentation, IMO. > >Clearly YMV. > > The GPL is the equivalent of the US constituion in your analogy. Maybe it is. But the US constitution isn't advertised as being something it's not. The GPL is. > >I'd say not. In this real world what I believe just got you > >pissed off enough to respond. It got many others in the same > >agitated state. To that I say good. It pisses me to pleasure > >to think so. > > I'm afraid you give yourself and this libelous rant of yours too > much credit. In fact I find your statements both amusing and > sad. Amusing because they seem to be without foundation and > based purely on your misperceptions. Sad because you've repeatedly > chosen to skirt my points and avoided the use of facts just to > try and make a point. I find your rhetorical tactic amusing. You know the one where you click your heels together over and over saying "your avoiding my issues, your avoiding my issues," in the hopes that someone might believe it. As for libelous, bring it on. Remember, a) truth is a defense, b) they are my opinions. > >I disagree. I think it's a foolish thing because I look at > >misckit and see a better way where more people benefit. I > >think you're all greedy clutchers relatively speeking. > > Yah, but you use the software developed by all of us "greedy > clutchers" anyway. Right? :-) :-) And it's not like you're a > hypocrite right? ;-) Right. Because I have repeatedly stated that I believe that programmers are *entitled* to consideration and compensation. I paid for my stone, lighthouse, AFS, netsurfer, etc. software. I believe the authors deserved to be paid. I gave them compensation for the priveledge of using *their* software. You GPL folks are greedy relative to misckit and PD software makers. You are entitled to be that. Afterall, it's *your* software and you can do whatever you wish with it, place whatever restrictions on the suse or not. > >No. It addresses it just fine. It's not my duty to educate > >you Felipe. And with a piss poor attitude, you're pretty much > >ensuring I wont. It wouldn't hurt a bit for you to *try* and > >see if the arguments are reasonable before demanding proof as > >if you're OJ on trail saying that you're not guilty until shown > >to be so beyond any reasonable doubt. On the other hand it > >puts GNU in a kind of appropriate light, a criminal on trail, > >rather appropriate. > > John, did you forget that you are the one making the libelous > claims? I don't feel I made any libelous claims. If you feel you were libeled, please feel free to take the proper actions. I'm guessing you just forgot how to argue effectively. That's my little insight. > >You know how misleading that is. Shame on you Felipe. You > >know they just included the GNU stuff for compiling, command > >line, etc. But didn't include a SINGLE line in the libraries > >or anything else they considered value added. Why, because > >it's limiting. That's what's kind of grating. You know your > >not representing things accuratly in some attempt to paint this > >crappy part of GNU in a good light. Why not say, look somethings > >in it are great, some suck. Let's try and fix the things that > >suck. > > It is not misleading. You can in fact release and sell completely > proprietaty and closed software that runs on a GNU/Linux system, > employs the systems libraries ...etc. On the other hand if you > want to take something like GIMP, add a couple of dozen lines of > code and think that you can now compete against Adobe Photoshop > you've got another thing coming. No you cannot. You cannot make a derivative work and distribute it any way you like. I feel I was mislead. It is misleading. > It is not the goal of GPL authors to allow individuals and > corporations to usurp the competitive advantage of companies such > as Adobe that have spent many millions developing their products. > If you want to write a Photoshop killer and keep the code closed > then you'll just have to make the necessary investment. Duh. Ya think. No kidding. > >Supporting them and using using their code are very different > >things now arent they? If you hold your breath to see ORACLE > >code for their main databases you'll pass out. You are completely > >off base and you know it. > > In order for Oracle 8 to run on a GNU/Linux system it will need > to use the systems' libraries. The majority of commericical > vendors do not need anything more than that. And it's well within > the bounds of the GPL. Puhleez. Let's see why Oracle will NEVER use any source code from GNU in their actual valued products? Hmmm, why might that be? Because it will render them uncompetitive. > >They are not derivatives of any value added strategic product. > >Done. > > I never said or implied they were. My only point is that it is > very easy for a commercial vendor to sell his product on top of > a GNU/Linux system. We've been there, done that, established that. You are skirting the issue of source code integration and how that renders a valued product uncompetitive. > >KISS MY PROOF! :) :) How you like that? :) If I HAD proof, > >and I do save those stupid exchanges, I WOULDN"T SHOW YOU. > >Know why? Because you're being a prick and I don't owe you > >anything. Not proof. Not an education. NOTHING. So since > >you're demanding something that you don't deserve, and not > >being pleasant about, and not interested in any meaningful > >exchange, you will get that. NOTHING. NO PROOF. I dont see > >you as my burdon whereby I have to provide proof to educate > >you. Feel free think otherewise. BTW, there are many forms > >of hearsay that are readily admissible in court. Admissions > >by a party opponent being one of them. > > :-) Your response is why I rarely get into or even read these > threads anymore. Many like you above resort to rude pointless > banter. I guess your proof is exactly where I thought it was. I respond only in kind. Your remarks are asinine, I think you deserve the like in kind. > Locked in a little box under your bed (along with information > hidden by the Warren Commision :-) Here's my proof about it being misleading. I was mislead. See how easy that is children. My mattress rests right on the floor, no room for a box. Just enough space for a few dustballs, inconsequential, much like your wittle attempts at being witty. > John, you've made libelous statements. The burden of proof is > on you as the accuser. I don't believe they are. Regardless, I've carried my burdon. This conversation being one of them. > >No, it's my same story. I DEFY you to show otherwise. > > At the begining of this post you're making claims of hypocricy > and using rude metaphors. Now you seem content to acknowledge > that the GPL is a good thing. Yes, that does sound like a > different tune. Like saying the Communists were evil murderous > people but their goals were noble. Sure the one does not preclude > the other but it does sound very different. I'll just take that as an admission that you are wrong. My tune has been consistent. The GNU philosophy is hypocritical, arrogant. I believe there pages are misleading. That doesn't change that there is also a lot of good associated with GNU. I DEFY you to find a quote from me to the contrary. Till then we'll just go with the assumption that you're full of shit for rhetorical purposes. > >Why? It will only benefit people like you? Why pray tell > >should I bother? > > It is quite clear that we disagree on this. I am of the opinion > that if one makes a seemingly libelous claim that said individual > should feel compelled to back it up. You obviously feel you > don't need to back it up because you're John Kheit... ;-) Yea, you know, you got one thing right. Kewl. Your not a complete idiot; though I'm sure with a little time and effort you might achieve your objective. That's right, it's my opinion, and I feel no need to provide proof. And still I did. > There is a very significant difference between the passive role > Clinton plays in the economy and the active role provided by the > FSF and it's developers. If Clinton disappears tomorrow the US > economy will not skip a beat. Your ability to miss the point, or blindly back a side is noteworthy. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
From: moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 02 Sep 1998 08:43:28 -0600 Organization: The Children's Hospital of Denver Sender: is001652@nasrullah.tchden.org Message-ID: <yq3ww7mr2wf.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > In article <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > > mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > > > > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > > > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > > > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > > > proprietary software). > > > > Exactly! > > Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep > them a secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. So > what if GPL can be characterized better by "date rape". It's still evil. Since you have to willingly use GPLed code to be required to GPL your own work, the relationship is consensual. > > Tony -- Louis
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: x-host command in NeXT machines Date: 2 Sep 1998 17:37:54 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6sjvpi$bi6$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <6seqm5$8uho@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> <6sf0dv$jfe$1@news.spacelab.net> <35ecfda5.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) wrote: >"Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> wrote: >>You can use the -NXHost (or -NSHost) switch on the command line to remotely >>display to another NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP machine, much the way -display works >>under X Windows. > >Does something similar work between Openstep (Solaris) and NeXTstep ... ? A Sun SPARC machine running OPENSTEP, yes. I'm not sure about a SPARC machine running Solaris and PDO/EOF/WOF, or YellowBox for Solaris, or whatever combination of technologies might apply. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 18:45:09 GMT Organization: UCO & Associates, NH, USA Message-ID: <6sk3nl$ha6$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> References: <6sjir5$r2b$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6sjmme$lqe@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: > In article <6sjir5$r2b$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit > <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > >far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: > >> In article <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit > >> <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: Given how weak and unsubstantiated > >> your arguments have been I wouldn't quit my day job ;-) > > > >That is my day job. Given how weak your mental process is, > >I'd concentrate on coherently forming a slam. > > > snip > > > >God, what a bore you are. You bore me with that drivel. It's > >such meek, meek, meek shit that it just bores me. Is your ego > >that depressed that you'd > > Control your anger John, I mean it's not like your wrong. Right > ;-) Apparently it is. -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... _________________________________________________________________ UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit You're dangerous because you're honest...
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <wsn1zputeq0.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <864susnh1j.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:57:27 GMT Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > > I cannot let this stand uncontested. The "taking of rights" you're > talking about is a product of fantasy. Even the possibility of > getting the source-code to a changed version isn't there until the > changed version has been created. If you think of the source code as > a generic 'right', then you're ignoring this fact. > Let me rephrase then. The "failure to give rights." > The only case where this right exists is when somebody elects to > modify and distribute piece of software where the right has been > created through the GPL. And the purpose of the GPL is to create such a right and enforce it. > However, it isn't right to say that by > distributing without source (for a non-GPL program) you remove any > 'rights' from the users - they have no 'right' to have source to the > program at least until the point the program exists. > But they do have such rights under the GPL. That is why I say the GPL protects users' rights. It is perhaps more accurate to say that it gives them rights. > | They are also damaging the community, and the overall state of free > | software. > > Thank you for the accusation. It isn't, you misunderstand my intention. > I'd like to know how my distribution of > BSD-licensed software with modifications have damaged the community. > Go in details and be exact. > You mean your distribution under a proprietary license? (If you mean simple redistribution under the BSD license, there is no damage.) Even redistribution under a proprietary license is not always or necessarily harmful, I do it myself. I think of the GPL as a positive action; it adds value. It is not so much an avoidance of something bad. It is not that a particular proprietarization causes a harm, in and of itself. We are talking about the big picture; the overall result of many licensing and development decisions over time. The GPL improves this big picture, adding value to the body of free software as a whole. IMO the purpose of the GPL is to place free software in competition with proprietary software. This is exactly the same purpose that a proprietary vendor has: their license is, "this code and all derived works belong to us exclusively, always"; the GPL is "this code and all derived works belong to the public exclusively, always." The reason for the competition is to ensure one retains market share. The GPL ensures that free software always has market share. The BSD license allows this, and for that reason it's free software and a Good Thing, but it does not ensure it. And that's why it's not quite as good a thing as the GPL, IMO. Now don't try to tell me "if someone uses the code in a proprietary product, the original still exists." I am aware of that. That isn't the point. The point is that if you give your competitors all your work, it is trivial for them to crush you. The BSD license is not defenseless; in practice, it's hard to add *enough* value to crush constantly-evolving free software, and it's annoying to maintain your own branch, etc. BSD may also increase software-writing by providing an additional way to profit from free software (proprietary distribution, in addition to support, etc.) But the BSD license does not offer a legal mechanism to ensure that the competition continues. It does not enforce a user's right to free software. Both licenses are fine. The GPL has a security blanket that I appreciate, however. In the short term, it also tends to reduce the number of individual instances where the users do not have the source code and the right to modify. > Note that the distribution of less free versions of this software > (pre-installed on suitable hardware to run it on) has paid for most of > my involvement in free software. > Sure. I don't deny that proprietary development can have a positive effect on free software. Whether it is a *net* positive effect, I have no idea. > | Of course in many cases this happens even with the BSD-style licenses, > | but the GPL tries to make sure it happens. > > And whether the GPL overall protects or harms the community is not > obvious. It is clear that it in many cases harm the community by > denying people the ability[1] to hack the code, but at the same time it > forces some release of hacked code that wouldn't happen otherwise. > I agree that it isn't clear. I think it's pure guess and speculation whether the BSD or GPL approach to creating more free software will work better, and we won't ever know which did work better in all likelihood. I just have a personal preference for the legal security blanket of the GPL. It is more straightforward and direct. My guess, and we are all just guessing, is that it will and does work better. > [1] Ability to hack code isn't only related to the legal right to hack > that code; it is also based on the ability to afford taking the time > to hack the code. With the GPL, many people loose the second part of > the requirement. > Not necessarily, since there are many ways to make money to hack code other than selling proprietary derivatives of it. And if you wrote all the code, you can use the GPL and still make money from proprietary derivatives. But yes, this is possible. We just don't know, do we? Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
From: Pim van Riezen <pim@webcity.nl> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 15:10:18 -0700 Organization: World Online Message-ID: <35EC70CA.37F2CB10@webcity.nl> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <xnok93nn9op.fsf@andvare.diku.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Makholm wrote: > > paul@elastic.avid.com (Paul Miller) writes: > > > How many more years do you think it'll take them to "invent" resizable > > dialogs? > > I dont care about dialogs. And it's ok that I'm not able to resize a > dosbox, dos is crappy and shouldn't be fixed. But I can't live with > not being able to resize a telnet session, scroll up and down in a > telnet session. If you're in the windows park, try "Crt". If you're in the Mac avenue, try "Niffty Telnet". If you're on BeOS, write a better telnet :-). Pim -- "I'm at the corner of Walk and Don't Walk, where shall we meet?" Operations - SaltLake.UT.US.Undernet.Org Channel LART - #linux Undernet Programmer sometimes LART - Microhill Automation Cat5 Monkey - Webcity / Internet Facilities Europe Eerie-eyed Visionair Software Developer - StealthTech Networking
From: moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 01 Sep 1998 09:38:30 -0600 Organization: The Children's Hospital of Denver Sender: is001652@nasrullah.tchden.org Message-ID: <yq34sur7si1.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition they are nothing > but leeches on the work of others. This tirade probably stands on its own but I'd like to put it into context. Linus USES compilers, editors, fileutils, etc. to make his kernel. Programmers USE the linux kernel, compilers, editors, fileutils, etc. to make their projects. We all USE hardware components we didn't build ourselves to run our kernels and utilities and our newsreaders. We mostly USE buildings we didn't build and USE food we didn't grow. And, as our species reproduces sexually, we USE another person for reproduction. > but leeches on the work of others. If I make something, I can keep it all to > myself and not let it out of my house. I'd get all the enjoyment of it and I would encourage you to not let posts like these out of your house. > you'd get none. You have no right to it, morally or legally. If you were to > try and take my work, you'd be a thief because you have nothing to do with > it. If you got to use my work, you'd be nothing more than a user, a leech. I take it then if you USED someone else's code whether BSDed, PDed, or GPLed then by defintion you yourself are "nothing more than a user, a leech." > You deserve no rights, you contribute nothing. You are worthless to the You'll take their money, right? > process of creation, unless you provide consideration/compensation. Users > deserve nothing. Absolutely nothing. Putting them on the same level as > creators is beyond moronic in any sense, moral, legal, or otherwise. The people who grow your food will like to know how you feel. > > It's obnoxious to think that anything need protect the rights of what in > essence are users. > > The real story is that GPL attaches strings to the use of any works made > under it. Strings attached are antithetical to freedom. In other words, gnu > software is far from free. Software donated to the PD is free. It's free > for the rest of the world to use and benefit from in *any* way. GNU puts on > restrictions, rather hypocritically. > If this post actually reflects your views, I would suggest that you stop calling others hypocrite and start calling them "Sir" and "Ma'am". I've met beggers with better manners and morals. > > -- > Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... > _________________________________________________________________ > UCO & Associates ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK > mailto:jkheit@uco-iplaw.com > http://people.ne.mediaone.net/jkheit > You're dangerous because you're honest... This wasn't honest. This was ugly. -- Louis
From: Axel Boldt <axel@uni-paderborn.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 02 Sep 1998 05:34:02 +0200 Organization: none Message-ID: <xzq3eab89xx.fsf@uni-paderborn.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > In article <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > > mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > > > > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > > > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > > > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > > > proprietary software). > > > > Exactly! > > Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep > them a secret if they so desire. Sure, but if you express them publicly, then you certainly don't have a right to keep me from copying them in the privacy of my own home. At least not a moral right; of course, Copyright gives you the legal right to do it. Axel
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:16:37 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE5E75.3F54BC7E@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Kheit wrote: ] If you love something, set it free. Truly free. Not "I'll give ] you something only if you promise to give something back. The ] former tends to work out better in practice. Nothing true or ] fine in the materialistic/communist (in the worst most failed ] sense) GNU philosophy. If you throw your bread upon the waters, it shall come back treefold, but only if you are willing to throw the recipe upon the waters as well... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 3 Sep 1998 10:09:34 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6smige$cr4$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <35E60FC3.905E2C2A@ne.mediaone.net> <m2soihgv9l.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35E72237.F83B82B9@ne.mediaone.net> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM> wrote: >Having just reviewed USC 17, I have to admit you are correct. (Damn >that Berne Convention.) But with some provisions concerning publishing Berne? It's been that way since the Copyright Act of 1909, at least, I though. Am I in error? --Tim Smith
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 03 Sep 1998 12:01:14 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m3zpchjz11.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <35EE54BD.167EB0E7@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y terry <dont@spam.me> writes: >> You may release your code under as many licenses you wish. > > Ah, a person who truly fails to understand the concepts behind > a derivative work of a derivative work, and the FSF suit against > a certain purveyor of a certain cryptography library... What part of «your code» is it that is difficult to understand? I suspect it's the «your» part, which does not mean «everything that you have laid eyes on», but rather «written by you». -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 03 Sep 1998 13:54:11 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 1998 11:54:13 GMT terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > Joe Buck wrote: > ] Most authors recognize that the license you choose is a > ] tradeoff -- the GPL is one possible tradeoff, and the BSD > ] license is another. > > OK, I follow you so far... > > ] Many people who write both commercial and free software put > ] all their free software under the GPL; otherwise they are > ] subsidizing their competition. > > OK, now the bus is in the weeds. > > If I release under GPL, my competitor can demand my source > code. If I release under UCB license, he can't. > > Under which license do I get to retain my competitive advantage > from my efforts, should I choose to do so? You are confusing things. Both GPL and BSD are source code licenses so it goes without saying that if I release software under either license, I release it including the source. In both cases, the competitor need not "demand" the source code, he gets it. Now what you might have been thinking of is not releasing something under those respective licenses, but basing one's products on work by others released under those licenses. In the latter case, the original authors of the GPLed stuff have the right to demand that if you do release stuff based on work from them without further negotiation with them, you have to do so providing source under the GPL. But if I am the sole author of a work, releasing under the GPL gives my competitors much less grounds for exploitation in a manner I would not like. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 98 01:24:32 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Sep3012432@slave.doubleu.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1056510ab99036ca9896a8@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Sep1210120@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.105802e16c0aaf2e9896b0@netnews.worldnet.att.net> In-reply-to: Tony@ask.me's message of 3 Sep 1998 07:30:59 GMT In article <MPG.105802e16c0aaf2e9896b0@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: But you went to the opposite extreme. My call was for ethics in business relationships and also not preying on the naive. From what I could tell, you were stating that the employer/employee relationship is always unethical, and that employees are always the naive party. Which I don't think is the case (there's a difference between being naive and being oblivious). Unfortunately, you can no more enforce ethics than you can enforce politeness. And, to be honest, I think that penalizing businesses who deal ethically with their employees because some other businesses prey on their employees in an unethical manner is a bit heavy-handed. Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 03 Sep 1998 14:06:35 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2k93lmmd0.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 1998 12:06:36 GMT Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > The fact is that if people want to pay for a binary distribution with > modifications (and without source), then there have added value to the > original, and it is this added value people pay for. > > Another way to license would be to require them to inform that there > is a free version available; this make sure that people that elect to > pay for their modified version know that they are paying only for the > added value. The fact that adding value might be less work than > creating the original that the value is added to does not IMO subtract > from the fact that they are adding value. The problem with that is that you get dozens of different people offering added value, and all of these will remain incompatible. As a user, you cannot buy into the added value of more than a single value-adder. That is bad. If too many people jump onto the added-value track, the original project gets splintered beyond recognition. There are by now dozens of different incompatible offsprings of the original BSD code around, a lot of which with added value without available source, and the customer has to pick one of them and forget the others. The basically GPLed system Linux, in contrast, is still very much an effort with a single mainstream. When the added value of a single party gets too exciting, it is simply incorporated into other party's products (for example, the RPM package format). While quite a bit can be explained by differences in management and the relative youth of Linux as compared to BSD, I suspect the licensing to form a non-negligible part of the relative unity of Linux development. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Tabitha.Soren@celebsxxx.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FREE MEMBERSHIPS 67248 Message-ID: <01099819.0153@celebsxxx.com> Organization: <no organization> Distribution: World Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:01:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 19:01:59 EST http://199.44.171.25/ =======ALL FOR FREE======= YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS TO BELIEVE IT. 4 HOT COLLEGE GIRLS LIVING IN A HOUSE WITH CANS IN EVERY ROOM INCLUDING THE SHOWER. THE CAMS ARE ON 24 HOURS AND THERE IS ALSO A CHAT ROOM SO YOU CAN TALK TO THEM TOO... http://199.44.171.25/ http://199.44.171.25/ xsA
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: CanonObjectStation.41 and Pentium Overdrive (85MHz) Intel plugin Date: 3 Sep 1998 21:29:26 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6sn1nm$cg4$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <35EF030E.BBAF15FF@mindspring.com> Marshall Gilula <mgilula@mindspring.com> wrote: >anyone out there in NeXTland by any chance have any experience with >upgrading of those Canon Objection Station.41 machines to an Intel >Pentium Overdrive chip from the built-in DX4 100 MHz 486 chip??? I believe you could upgrade to a P-83 (2.5 * 33 MHz), which is the 237/238-pin ZIF socket Pentium overdrive CPU, also identified as the P24T. However, the Canon's may not have properly implemented the L2 cache mechanisms correctly to support the faster method of writing to cache (write-thru vs. write-back). Maybe a BIOS upgrade would have helped. However, this upgrade isn't going to buy you much performance improvement, and it's probably not worth spending the money when you could replace the MB with a socket-7, get SDRAM DIMM's instead of the significantly slower FPM SIMM's, have PCI slots available, and so forth. >This Canon machine is not listed with any of the reported upgradeable >Canon systems in the Intel and Intel-related websites. > >Canon itself is considerably less than helpful, even with >pay-for-waiting-tech-service phone lines.! (Why am I not surprised?) >(No commercial slam intended in case a tech is reading this). By all means, give them a slam. Canon made some decent machines for the time, although they were plagued by some very annoying problems, but then they completely dropped all support and have since tried to refuse acknowledging that these object.stations ever existed. -Chuck
From: ripley@nostromo.in-berlin.de (H. Eckert) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 1998 08:50:48 GMT Organization: Private access site (FreeBSD 2.2.5), Berlin, Germany, Europe Message-ID: <slrn6usm38.s16.ripley@nortobor.nostromo.in-berlin.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund): > Not the labor they put into a GPLed program - they have limited rights > to that. If you wanted to give them full rights to that, but still > require distribution of source, you should require distribution of the > original source. [...] > Another way to license would be to require them to inform that there > is a free version available; this make sure that people that elect to > pay for their modified version know that they are paying only for the > added value. How about a license that requires derived work to include both, the original and the derived versions so the end-users can judge the real value of the modifications ? Greetings, Ripley -- http://www.in-berlin.de/User/nostromo/ == "You don't say what kind of CD drive or hard disks you have, but since it is causing you trouble I'll assume it is IDE." -- comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 1998 07:30:59 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.105802e16c0aaf2e9896b0@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1056510ab99036ca9896a8@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Sep1210120@slave.doubleu.com> In article <SCOTT.98Sep1210120@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > In article <MPG.1056510ab99036ca9896a8@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, > Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > In article <SCOTT.98Aug31161812@slave.doubleu.com>, > scott@nospam.doubleu.com says... > > Beyond that, companies do not remove your ideas by force. > > Sure they do. Companies routinely require that you sign away all, > even unrelated ideas to the company. In effect this dissallows > ownership. Isn't that slavery? I think so. Surely it's not > freedom! > > People routinely do a _lot_ of stuff. That doesn't change the point > at all. People routinely make the minimum payment on their credit > cards - I don't, and I reap the rewards of not doing so. If we lived > in a world where you couldn't sell rights to specific pieces of your > intellectual property to your employer, people would screw up their > lives in some other way. I, for one, feel that we can't babysit > people their entire lives. But you went to the opposite extreme. My call was for ethics in business relationships and also not preying on the naive. Tony
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: x-host command in NeXT machines References: <6seqm5$8uho@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> <6sf0dv$jfe$1@news.spacelab.net> <35ecfda5.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> <6sjvpi$bi6$1@news.spacelab.net> From: sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) Message-ID: <35ee47bb.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> Date: 3 Sep 98 07:39:39 GMT "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> wrote: >sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) wrote: >>"Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> wrote: >>>You can use the -NXHost (or -NSHost) switch on the command line to remotely >>>display to another NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP machine, much the way -display works >>>under X Windows. >> >>Does something similar work between Openstep (Solaris) and NeXTstep ... ? > >A Sun SPARC machine running OPENSTEP, yes. I'm not sure about a SPARC >machine running Solaris and PDO/EOF/WOF, or YellowBox for Solaris, or >whatever combination of technologies might apply. > I meant a Solaris 2.5.1 machine with Openstep 1.1 from SUN/Lighthouse. With -NSHost insteat of -NXHost I didn't get the "cannot connect" message anymore but nothing happens either. If I only had the same accounts on the NeXT and the Solarismachine ... Sven -- Sven Droll __ ______________________________________________________/ / ______ __ sdroll@mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de / /_/ ___/ please remove the NOSPM from my reply-address /_ _/ _/ =====\_/======= LOGOUT FASCISM! ___________________________________________________________________ NeXT-mail or MIME welcome ;-)
Date: 1 Sep 1998 08:53:48 EST Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config,microsoft.public.access.security,comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <cancel.nFPML1YbW.Z9ww@iastate.edu> Control: cancel <nFPML1YbW.Z9ww@iastate.edu> From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca Sender: Matt Bruce <qb-announce@iastate.edu> Subject: cmsg cancel <nFPML1YbW.Z9ww@iastate.edu> EMP/ECP (aka SPAM) cancelled by clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce, report 19980901.01 for further details
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6usm38.s16.ripley@nortobor.nostromo.in-berlin.de> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 04 Sep 1998 01:15:09 +0200 Message-ID: <861zpsiy9u.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> ripley@nostromo.in-berlin.de (H. Eckert) writes: > eivind@yes.no (Eivind Eklund): > > Not the labor they put into a GPLed program - they have limited rights > > to that. If you wanted to give them full rights to that, but still > > require distribution of source, you should require distribution of the > > original source. > [...] > > Another way to license would be to require them to inform that there > > is a free version available; this make sure that people that elect to > > pay for their modified version know that they are paying only for the > > added value. > > How about a license that requires derived work to include both, the > original and the derived versions so the end-users can judge the real > value of the modifications ? This seems only interesting if you're obsessed with credit. I don't think it is necessary, really, but that is of course up to the person doing the original programming. You could create a reasonable license over the theme, but I don't really think it would buy much. Eivind.
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 1998 08:03:09 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10580a6f7e1e35869896b2@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <Eyn36I.883@kithrup.com> In article <Eyn36I.883@kithrup.com>, mrs@kithrup.com says... > In article <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, > Tony <Tony@ask.me> wrote: > >Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep them a > >secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. > > You must be really confused, nobody is forcing disclosure. You can > choose to disclose if you want to, or not. That is _your_ choice, > but, if you do disclose, and the code isn't yours, you must disclose > all. GPL is a coniving little punk practice is all. GPL is not worthy of the paper it's written on, unless that paper is used to wipe one's ass. It is NULL and VOID. T :þ
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 1998 08:07:21 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10580b6bba7689db9896b3@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <yq3ww7mr2wf.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> In article <yq3ww7mr2wf.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org>, moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org says... > Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > > > In article <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > > > mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > > > > > > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > > > > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > > > > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > > > > proprietary software). > > > > > > Exactly! > > > > Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep > > them a secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. So > > what if GPL can be characterized better by "date rape". It's still evil. > > Since you have to willingly use GPLed code to be required to GPL your > own work, the relationship is consensual. No one GPLing anything has authority to require anything. GPL is unrecognized as anything but a triviality. Tony
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: x-host command in NeXT machines References: <6seqm5$8uho@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> <6sf0dv$jfe$1@news.spacelab.net> <35ecfda5.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> <6sjvpi$bi6$1@news.spacelab.net> From: no_spam_frank@ifi.unibas.ch Message-ID: <35ee4fad.0@maser.urz.unibas.ch> Date: 3 Sep 1998 10:13:33 +0100 "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> wrote: > sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) wrote: > >"Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> wrote: > >>You can use the -NXHost (or -NSHost) switch on the command line to remotely > >>display to another NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP machine, much the way -display works > >>under X Windows. > > > >Does something similar work between Openstep (Solaris) and NeXTstep ... ? > > A Sun SPARC machine running OPENSTEP, yes. I'm not sure about a SPARC > machine running Solaris and PDO/EOF/WOF, or YellowBox for Solaris, or > whatever combination of technologies might apply. A sparc running SOLARIS is X11. Even the OPENSTEP (YellowBox) runs under X11, thus: no NXHosting from SOLARIS/OPENSTEP to NeXT/OPENSTEP. -Robert -- Institut fuer Informatik tel +41 (0)61 321 99 67 Universitaet Basel fax. +41 (0)61 321 99 15 Robert Frank Mittlere Strasse 142 rfc822: frank@ifi.unibas.ch (NeXT,MIME mail ok) CH-4056 Basel (remove any no_spam_ from my return address) Switzerland
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:31:17 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE53D5.41C67EA6@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> <xfgu32t3x7z.fsf@omsi14.omsi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harmanjit Singh wrote: > > And is a buyer allowed to modify it and give it for free? > > > > Please read the GPL! Yes, please! It is allowable for me to take the GCC, modify it to produce superior code, compile the unmodified source with the modified compiler to get a faster compiler (just like compiling it with a proprietary compiler from a systems vendor, like Sunsoft), and distribute the source for the unmodified compiler with the binary for the unmodified compiler produced with the modified compiler. Since I'm not distributing binaries created by the modified compiler, I'm not required by the GPL to give source for the modifications that ultimately resulted in the faster compiler (just as I'm not required to give sources to the SunSoft compiler I used to produce a GCC). In this way, I can subvert the spirit, but not the letter, of the GPL. Yea, team! The GPL is a poor instantiation of a legal instrument to back a philosophical cause. Oh well; so long as I can take liberties with the license as if the source code were truly public, I'm happy... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:35:09 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE54BD.167EB0E7@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: ] > With your code, if I spend months working on it, making great ] > contributions, and then want to take some small part, just a few ] > hundred lines, and put it in my 100k line program, I have to release ] > my whole program under GPL. ] ] No, you don't. A license only applies to the people who get the code ] -- it does not limit what the author of the code can do with the ] code. You may release your code under as many licenses you wish. Ah, a person who truly fails to understand the concepts behind a derivative work of a derivative work, and the FSF suit against a certain purveyor of a certain cryptography library... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:40:37 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE5605.2781E494@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Wooding wrote: ] No: I win. You're missing something important too: I'd rather people ] didn't use my code at all rather than redistributing it under a ] restrictive licence. I happen to agree with rms that restrictive ] licences are immoral, and that we're better off without Hoarded ] software. In other words, you would prefer to support source availability over standardization. Standardization being the one weapon software has against monopoly. See "TCP/IP" and "The Internet" for references.... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:51:53 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Buck wrote: ] Most authors recognize that the license you choose is a ] tradeoff -- the GPL is one possible tradeoff, and the BSD ] license is another. OK, I follow you so far... ] Many people who write both commercial and free software put ] all their free software under the GPL; otherwise they are ] subsidizing their competition. OK, now the bus is in the weeds. If I release under GPL, my competitor can demand my source code. If I release under UCB license, he can't. Under which license do I get to retain my competitive advantage from my efforts, should I choose to do so? ] As, I think, Russ Nelson said: "When I write commercial software ] I expect to get paid." Please make a distinction between getting paid for intellectual property, and getting paid for a work-for-hire, where you assign your property rights to another (company or GPL)... ] In both cases, people can pay someone money to make an ] enhancement. Right; the question is "who owns the enhancement?", the person paying, the autor, or some public trust, in the form of the GPL... ] But the fact remains that if it weren't for the GPL, there would be no ] free C++ compiler and no free Objective-C compiler TenDRA. A European Defense ministry sponsored project (proving once again that individuals operate in their own self interest, and that governments operate in *their* self interest, to the expense of the individual, but to the general benefit)... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:56:50 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86u32ynqiy.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s6rka$5kc$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Buck wrote: [ ... TCP/IP ... ] ] >Eh? I didn't say Uncle Sam wasn't paying. I said it was successfull ] >because it used a BSD-style license, not a GPL-style. ] ] It is certainly true that had a GPL-style license been used, ] then commercial vendors would have had to write their own ] implementations. Not true. Otherwise Linux would be more successful than Windows. Quod Erat Demonstradum. TCP/IP became a standard because the cost of proprietary implementation was low enough that proprietary implementation occurred, and because the fruit did not fall far enough from the tree to make the implementation non-interoperable. This is the strength of Open Source that can be commercialized; it dupes commercial companies into adhering to standards that they would otherwise ignore... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:05:05 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE5BC1.59E2B600@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <6s06pi$11ic$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <86emu4orrd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eivind Eklund wrote: ] * E. Gkioulekas ] | It is a flaw if you value _freedom_, a concept which is explained in ] | sufficient detailed in the GNU philosophy pages ] | (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy). ] | If you make value judgements using different criteria, you will ] | reach different conclusions. That's all there is to it. ] ] It makes value judgements based on some idea of an end-users' freedom ] being more important than the freedom of a developer. Actually, it makes value judements about "liberty", not "freedom", and tends to FUD up the definion of "freedom" considerably in the process. I suppose if you were from an Eastern-block country, you wouldn't notice the redefintion of "freeedom" as "liberty". Why redefine "free", when "liberty" is a perfectly reasoanable and applicable word? ...perhaps in the furtherance of a political agenda which depends on the redefintion? Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 02:10:05 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35EE5CED.1CFBAE39@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvt26$e81@lace.colorado.edu> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s4tm6$pon@ascetic.portal.ca> <6s6rof$61u$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <MPG.1050fbb0472b07c898968b@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <m2pvdi3m8f.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kastrup wrote: ] It very much depends on what's in the drop of water. If, for example, ] the drop is saturated with cyanide, it becomes an important component ] of the derived work, giving it essential properties it did not have ] before. Particle Man, Particle Man, Everyone knows he's Particle Man. If he hits the water, does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead? No one knows, he's Particle Man... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: Wassim M Jabi <jabi@acsu.buffalo.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Font Conversion Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:32:51 -0400 Organization: SUNY - University at Buffalo Message-ID: <6smgf5$k33$1@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: Does anyone know of a good tool to convert my Postscript fonts from OPENSTEP MACH to OPENSTEP Enterprise on Windows NT? - Wassim Jabi (wj@writeme.com)
From: far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 2 Sep 1998 15:02:38 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6sjmme$lqe@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <6sjir5$r2b$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> In article <6sjir5$r2b$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: >far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) wrote: >> In article <6si0l0$sa3$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit >> <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: >> Given how weak and unsubstantiated your arguments have been I >> wouldn't quit my day job ;-) > >That is my day job. Given how weak your mental process is, I'd concentrate >on coherently forming a slam. > snip > >God, what a bore you are. You bore me with that drivel. It's such meek, >meek, meek shit that it just bores me. Is your ego that depressed that you'd Control your anger John, I mean it's not like your wrong. Right ;-) -- Felipe A. Rodriguez # Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan from Agoura Hills, CA # being a private citizen because he was # armed; his successors, since they avoided far@ix.netcom.com # the inconveniences of arms, became private (NeXTmail preferred) # citizens after having been dukes. (MIMEmail welcome) # --Nicolo Machiavelli
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Font Conversion Message-ID: <1998090316515101.MAA08702@ladder03.news.aol.com> Date: 3 Sep 1998 16:51:51 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6smgf5$k33$1@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> How does OpenStep Enterprise on WinNT handle PostScript fonts? It has full, Display Postscript, no? Does it not then use the ASCII (.pfa) files which OS for Mach used? William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc From: Tim Dawson <dawsontp@darwin.u-net.com> Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Return-Receipt-To: dawsontp@darwin.u-net.com Organization: Neuropathology Section, Cardiff. 01222 742705 References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:54:47 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 19:10:39 BST In article <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay <URL:mailto:pvigay@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In article <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk>, Adrian Jackson > <URL:mailto:adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > > Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: > > > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: > > > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with > > > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) > > > > > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! > > > > Strange but true. > > > > Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 > > Ahhh, but you'll need to upgrade the roads in order to run them. > Only $100.00 per wheel. Of course the wheels will be unnecessarily large with an elaborate tread pattern that entirely fails to enhance traction and requires an engine upgrade to maintain an acceptable cruising speed. Furthermore the warranty only covers usage on manufacturer endorsed highways... -- ~~~~Dr Tim Dawson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neuropathology Section, UHW, Cardiff, Wales, CF4 4XN, UK DawsonTP@Cardiff.ac.uk or dawsontp@darwin.u-net.com
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 3 Sep 1998 10:04:25 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6smi6p$cqc$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <EyMxx4.1wr@kithrup.com> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost In article <EyMxx4.1wr@kithrup.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@kithrup.com> wrote: >What part of `we don't want your help, if you want to hoard' didn't >you understand? Yes, it is a steep price, but those are the terms we >want you to agree to, for helping you with your code. If you don't >value our help, you can write your own code. You seem to have missed what is being discussed in this branch of this thread. Someone said they saw no downside to GPL over BSD style licenses. Go back and read my post in that context. --Tim Smith
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: x-host command in NeXT machines References: <6seqm5$8uho@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> <6sf0dv$jfe$1@news.spacelab.net> From: sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) Message-ID: <35ecfda5.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> Date: 2 Sep 98 08:11:17 GMT "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> wrote: >You can use the -NXHost (or -NSHost) switch on the command line to remotely >display to another NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP machine, much the way -display works >under X Windows. Does something similar work between Openstep (Solaris) and NeXTstep ... ? Sven -- Sven Droll __ ______________________________________________________/ / ______ __ sdroll@mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de / /_/ ___/ please remove the NOSPM from my reply-address /_ _/ _/ =====\_/======= LOGOUT FASCISM! ___________________________________________________________________ NeXT-mail or MIME welcome ;-)
From: Gregory Bond <gnb@itga.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 04 Sep 1998 14:51:02 +1000 Organization: ITG Australia Limited Sender: gnb@lightning Message-ID: <ww67f4pjk9.fsf@itga.com.au> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) writes: > It is my firm belief, because I've already seen this in action, that > commercial companies will submit bug fixes and many of their > customizations back into the general BSD copyrighten source pool. We > do it, BSDI does it, all sorts of companies do it. It works, and > therefore a sufficiently advanced source base under the BSD copyright > will continue to thrive. Commercial companies using BSD code have a couple of choices. They _could_ take a fork in the road and never look back to the open source and evolve their products away from the source base. This would give them a big one-off benefit over totally in-house development, but not a lot of continuing benefit. Or they could attempt to track the source base, thereby taking advantage of the bazillion other people out there also fixing and improving the source base. Such a course gives not only an initial one-off benefit but a huge ongoing benefit compared to inhouse development. And once a company commits to following the source base, it makes fine economic sense to contribute fixes and updates back to the community, to reduce the amount of work required to keep the product in sync with the rest of the world. Greg, who once had several months worth of BDS-licenced code "hijacked" and turned into a commercial product (that, AFAIK, failed :<) -- Gregory Bond ITG Australia Ltd, Melbourne, Australia <mailto:gnb@itga.com.au> <http://www.bby.com.au/~gnb> From: bruce@itga.com.au (Do not use this address. It catches junk email.) From: bruce@bby.com.au, bruce@melba.bby.com.au (So do these ones)
From: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 3 Sep 1998 12:48:40 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6smrqo$gmu$1@flea.best.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> :In article <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: :> :> :>Not true. Otherwise Linux would be more successful than :>Windows. Quod Erat Demonstradum. Linux hasn't been around very long compared to Windows, so I don't this it's really fair to make such a statement. Besides, whos to say how Linux will stack up to Windows in a year or two? I, for one, am rooting for Linux to beat Windows' ass. And I'll be there, running all those apps on my FreeBSD box :-) :>This is the strength of Open Source that can be commercialized; :>it dupes commercial companies into adhering to standards that :>they would otherwise ignore... Heh. I think this is an excellent point. :> :> Terry Lambert -- Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications <dillon@best.net> (Please include original email in any response)
From: moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 01 Sep 1998 16:42:02 -0600 Organization: The Children's Hospital of Denver Sender: is001652@nasrullah.tchden.org Message-ID: <yq3yas3qwud.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <6sfogt$b9r$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <yq34sur7si1.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> <6shnsc$n5l$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > moore.louis@childrens.tchden.org (Louis B. Moore) wrote: > > John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > > > What f'n right should users have on anything. By definition > > > they are nothing but leeches on the work of others. > > > > This tirade probably stands on its own but I'd like to put it > > into context. > > > > Linus USES compilers, editors, fileutils, etc. to make his kernel. > > > > Programmers USE the linux kernel, compilers, editors, fileutils, > > etc. to make their projects. > > > > [snip...] > > > > > right to do so. You're missing the point and then some. > The point was, and is, that we are all users. Including you. We are also all producers. Including you. > > Yep. That's right. And I don't purport that I deserve more rights to that > work than the author because I am nothing more than a user/leech. That's > absolutlely correct. > And if an author grants the user the SAME rights as the author has, well then that is the author's right isn't it? Is that such a terrible thing? The author chooses to release a few rights and the user gains a few rights so that in the end they each get the same rights. > > > > You deserve no rights, you contribute nothing. You are worthless > > > to the > > You'll take their money, right? > > Whose money? As a user I'll take the owner's money? Jeezus, now you want > the author to pay you for using his work? That's pretty impressive. And > stupid. > First, put it into context: John Kheit <jkheit@mediaone.net> writes: > > > it. If you got to use my work, you'd be nothing more than a user, a leech. > > > You deserve no rights, you contribute nothing. You are worthless > > > to the > > You'll take their money, right? > > Whose money? As a user I'll take the owner's money? Jeezus, now you want > the author to pay you for using his work? That's pretty impressive. And > stupid. > Now, read it again. You, being John, will take the user's money for your work. Is it clearer? > > > > process of creation, unless you provide consideration/compensation. > > > Users deserve nothing. Absolutely nothing. Putting them on > > > the same level as creators is beyond moronic in any sense, > > > moral, legal, or otherwise. > > The people who grow your food will like to know how you feel. > > Your inablility to comprehend is impressive. The people who work to make > food are creators. It's *their* food, not mine. If I just walk over and > start eating *their* food, I'm stealing. I have no right to it at all. If > they sell it to me, then I have a right to it, but not until then. I as a > user/eater have no right to go over to the grower and take what he produced. > He is the only one that has a right to control the food because he made it, > not me. I feel he is entitled to the fruit of his labor. You are not tracking. The point is about the relation of producer and user. There are relationships in which you are a USER. There are relationships in which others are your USERS. The people who are your USERS would dislike: > > > Users deserve nothing. Absolutely nothing. Putting them on > > > the same level as creators is beyond moronic in any sense, > > > moral, legal, or otherwise. Again, the point is that we are all users and we are all producers. It is practical to treat your users well, as you may prove to be their user in another context. > > If this post actually reflects your views, I would suggest that > > you stop calling others hypocrite and start calling them "Sir" > > and "Ma'am". I've met beggers with better manners and morals. > > And I'd suggest you start using something other than shit for brains. If > your actuall intelligence is reflected by the analitical skills, or rather > lack thereof, displayed in this post, then your opinion of my manners and > morals is something to be pleased about. > As I said, I've met beggers with better manners and morals. While it is true, it wasn't necessary to mention it. Sorry. > > > This wasn't honest. This was ugly. > > Often the two work hand in hand. > Is it true? Is it necessary? Honesty doesn't have to be ugly. Corroding the social bonds that we all need to survive doesn't even win in the short run. > > -- > Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; self expressed... And yet, you do not seem to wish others to be well. May you find joy and contentment in your life, Louis
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net> <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:08:49 GMT In article <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com>, John S. Dyson <root@dyson.iquest.net> wrote: >The term "hijack" is non-operative here. Given that, the "advantage" >that GPLed code cannot be "hijacked" is specious. Fine, I withdraw the term hijack, but that doesn't alter my statement, and that doesn't alter it's truth. Let me rephase it for you, then you can comment on the substance of my claim instead of nitpicking the corners. >> It isn't a major point, but my feeling is because companies can't >> prevent the further redistribution of source code if it is GPLed >> but can if is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code >> will tend to be higher. Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree, please state why.
From: "Ryan Drake" <rdrake@dont.spam.matrox.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:29:34 -0400 Organization: Systemes Electroniques Matrox ltee Message-ID: <6sm5ks$ld1@bugsbunny.matrox.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <87yas3ceag.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.10580942ee7f5a569896b1@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Tony wrote in message ... >In article <87yas3ceag.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... >> All lies. The GNU GPL suggests the only just way to deal with software. >> Only satanistic bastards justify nondisclosure. >No, those who want to take others' human rights away have rapist >mentalities is all. Are you a Hitler youth? Looks like yet another conversation has degenerated to the point of idiocy. -- Please remove the no.spam from my email address if relpying by email. Any opinions stated above are MINE and not my employer's.
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 1998 09:54:54 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost In article <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net>, Leslie Mikesell <les@MCS.COM> wrote: >>Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right >>to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. The GPL >>repeatedly states that modification can only be done under the terms >>of the license. > >As a license the GPL is not binding unless both parties agree to it. >It is the copyright that restricts distribution, with the exception >that it is allowed if you agree to the terms of the license. If you >don't distribute, you aren't bound by the license. A distributor Copyright also prohibits modification. If you are modifying for your own use and are not going to distribute, the fair use doctrine might apply, but that is far from certain. --Tim Smith
From: balazs.pataki@sztaki.hu (Balazs Pataki) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: x-host command in NeXT machines Date: 4 Sep 1998 08:10:21 GMT Organization: Computer and Automation Institute Message-ID: <6so79d$gsd@lutra.sztaki.hu> References: <35ee4fad.0@maser.urz.unibas.ch> > > >Does something similar work between Openstep (Solaris) and NeXTstep .. ? > > > > A Sun SPARC machine running OPENSTEP, yes. I'm not sure about a SPARC > > machine running Solaris and PDO/EOF/WOF, or YellowBox for Solaris, or > > whatever combination of technologies might apply. > > A sparc running SOLARIS is X11. Even the OPENSTEP (YellowBox) runs under > X11, thus: no NXHosting from SOLARIS/OPENSTEP to NeXT/OPENSTEP. > You can -NXHost from NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/Mach to OPENSTEP/NT, if that matters ;-)
From: Mike Coffin <mhc@Eng.Sun.COM> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 03 Sep 1998 09:53:01 -0700 Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <8p667f5dtoy.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1050f8695a8199a198968a@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <SCOTT.98Aug28180912@slave.doubleu.com> <MPG.1052a0617d2dbd9898968d@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > Caps on how much one can hoard is probably a step in the right direction. > Made a million last year? Well then you're officially retired, you've > reached the limit for the yr. until everyone else is at the same level. > Or something similar. I not sure you understand money. Think of all the goods and services being put in a pot in the middle of the village. Think of putting something in the pot, for other people to consume, and receiving in return tokens of no intrinsic worth (money) that allow you to take stuff out of the pot later. Now, if someone has $1,000,000 in cash, they must have contributed a $1,000,000 worth *more* goods and services to the pot than they have consumed. So, for the good of society, you suggest that we *stop* that person for contributing more? That would be bizarre. Here we have people who have voluntarily put off their own gratification for the good of the rest of society. They have accepted pieces of green paper in exchange for real goods and services provided to other people. Many of those who accumulate the most money will *never* redeem those pieces of green paper for their own use; they will end up donating money to charities who exchange it for goods and services for worthy causes. Why on earth would you want to *stop* this? Would it be better if everyone went out of their way to consume at least as much as they contribute? -mike (Speaking for myself, of course, not my employer.)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <wsnyas2rzw4.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <864susnh1j.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <35EBF6ED.167E@sni.de> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:03:07 GMT Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de> writes: > > Even then, why does anyone think (s)he has the "right" to have the > source code even when the program exists? I do not have the right to > have the construction plans for my Dasher, nor do I have the right to > have the exact formula for any medicine I might have to take or any > other chemical I use. But wouldn't it be nice if someone gave you that right? This is what the GPL does. The argument is not that you have the right absolutely for all time. I don't see how it could be, since software has only been around a little while. The argument is that if you give people this right, through strategic application of the law, it will be a nice thing for those people to have. And overall it will be nice for the community. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: Havoc Pennington <hp@pobox.com> Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Message-ID: <wsnzpcis00l.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss Sender: rhpennin@harper.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <wsnww7p9ixr.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu> <864susnh1j.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:00:26 GMT Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > > * Havoc Pennington > | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > | > The GPL-users don't believe in letting > | > people 'exploit' their work - fine. They're distributing their > | > software with more strings attached, but it is still often useful. > | > > | > | I don't think of it that way. It's not a matter of people exploiting > | the work, it's a matter of people taking rights from other people - > | namely the end users who receive the software. > > I cannot let this stand uncontested. Hmm, sorry to follow up twice. I should reiterate the point of my original post: that viewing the GPL as a prevention of the exploitation of the original author is incorrect. That is what I meant to argue at that time, and I think you focused on some incidental phrasing while ignoring that point. Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
Message-ID: <35EDA1D3.2A49B957@xta.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 14:51:48 -0500 From: "Jim Lee Jr." <peej@xta.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <6s2jav$4d5$1@news.indy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don Romero wrote: > Arthur Hagen wrote in message <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no>... > > >With Commodore > >128 you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. > > If you're referring to GEOS, it was available for the 64 first. It may even > have been available before the 128 was released. > GEOS was available for the Commodore C64, since I have it. :) There was a C128 version too. Jim
From: elyard@abam.com (Scott Elyard) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 07:18:39 -0700 Organization: Berger/ABAM Engineers Inc. Message-ID: <elyard-0409980718390001@elyard.abam.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <6s2jav$4d5$1@news.indy.net> <35EDA1D3.2A49B957@xta.com> Few people know this, be the 128 also supported two montiors simultaneously (one ran only in text mode at 80x25 and the other had 2-bit color gfx; I forget what the resolution was...) In article <35EDA1D3.2A49B957@xta.com>, "Jim Lee Jr." <peej@xta.com> wrote: - >Don Romero wrote: - > - >> Arthur Hagen wrote in message <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no>... - >> - >> >With Commodore - >> >128 you also could get a mouse-driven GUI. - >> - >> If you're referring to GEOS, it was available for the 64 first. It may even - >> have been available before the 128 was released. - >> - > - >GEOS was available for the Commodore C64, since I have it. :) There was a C128 - >version too. - > - > Jim -- Scott Elyard ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~http://www.stonebug.net/~~~] | Peregrinus expectavi pedes meos in cymbalis est. | | scott@SPAMLESSstonebug.net Technical Designer (&c.) ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^ Stone Bug Studios ^
From: Chris <pagec5@cs.man.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:49:59 +0100 Organization: Dept of Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K. Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980904154812.4763D-100000@n9b> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com> <6sordn$fj9@handupme.avid.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <6sordn$fj9@handupme.avid.com> On 4 Sep 1998, Paul Miller wrote: > Paul T. Miller | paul@elastic.avid.com > Principal Engineer | Opinions expressed here are my own. ^^^^^^^^^ This has to be asked - does this mean you make principals? And if so, which schools are run by principals you have made... And how do you stop the bolts in their necks showing? Chris ________ _________ The World Foundry - We build the future \___ \ / \ / ___// Explorer 2260, Designer and Coder | \ \\_/\_// __// http://www.worldfoundry.demon.co.uk |___\_\____/_//______________________________________________________
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 04 Sep 1998 18:38:36 +0200 Organization: not right now. Message-ID: <m3lnnzlto3.fsf@lupinella.troll.no> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk (Mark Wooding) > No. Here I'd lose, because I'd have helped a company make money out of > Hoarding software, and I did most of the work for them. I wouldn't be > even slightly happy about that. I think it's reasonable to say that what they would make out of is the difference between the free base and their improved version, and that you did not do most of the work on that difference. --Arnt
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 4 Sep 1998 13:59:46 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6spdb2$rvk$1@Mars.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <xzqzpcj6uxc.fsf@uni-paderborn.de> In article <xzqzpcj6uxc.fsf@uni-paderborn.de>, Axel Boldt <axel@uni-paderborn.de> wrote: >> > >> >Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right >> >to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. The GPL >> >repeatedly states that modification can only be done under the terms >> >of the license. >> >> As a license the GPL is not binding unless both parties agree to it. >> It is the copyright that restricts distribution, with the exception >> that it is allowed if you agree to the terms of the license. If you >> don't distribute, you aren't bound by the license. > >That's false; as soon as you make a copy you are bound by the license, >because without the license, you wouldn't have the right to make a >copy, let alone a modification. How can you be bound by a license you not only haven't agreed to but don't even have until after you have the copy in question, at which point it is already your copy? >Copyright law governs under what >circumstances you can make copies as the name suggests. And usually, >you can't. Right - it is the distributor who arranges that you can, and if he does so without enforcing prior agreement to the license terms the recipient isn't bound by them until/unless he decides to also distribute. >Distribution matters only in sofar as it increases the >possible penalty. Since the GPL restricts *only* how you have to distribute if you choose to do so, the rest is irrelevant in this context anyway. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Tony@ask.me (Tony) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 3 Sep 1998 07:58:08 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <MPG.10580942ee7f5a569896b1@netnews.worldnet.att.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <SCOTT.98Aug27135836@slave.doubleu.com> <slrn6ucmcp.ft9.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <87yas3ceag.fsf@ivm.de> In article <87yas3ceag.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > Tony@ask.me (Tony) writes: > > > In article <87iuj8ymg9.fsf@ivm.de>, Klaus.Schilling@home.ivm.de says... > > > mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) writes: > > > > > > > -software is an intangible, an Idea (of the capitalized > > > > variety :), and therefore cannot be owned by anyone. It > > > > is immoral for someone to deny it to everyone else (i.e., > > > > proprietary software). > > > > > > Exactly! > > > > Wrong. Everyone has a right to their own thoughts and a right to keep > > them a secret if they so desire. Forcing disclosure is mind rape. So > > what if GPL can be characterized better by "date rape". It's still evil. > > All lies. The GNU GPL suggests the only just way to deal with software. > Only satanistic bastards justify nondisclosure. > > > Klaus Schilling No, those who want to take others' human rights away have rapist mentalities is all. Are you a Hitler youth? Tony
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 03 Sep 1998 13:47:37 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2n28hmn8m.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <MPG.104daa1c4bf6a23d9898c3@news.idt.net> <m2yasbg8o3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6s2g9v$qqr$15@blue.hex.net> <6s3l5e$ags$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m3g1eimsv8.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> <xfgu32t3x7z.fsf@omsi14.omsi.com> <35EE53D5.41C67EA6@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 1998 11:47:38 GMT terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > Harmanjit Singh wrote: > > > And is a buyer allowed to modify it and give it for free? > > > > > > > Please read the GPL! > > Yes, please! > > It is allowable for me to take the GCC, modify it to produce > superior code, compile the unmodified source with the modified > compiler to get a faster compiler (just like compiling it with > a proprietary compiler from a systems vendor, like Sunsoft), > and distribute the source for the unmodified compiler with the > binary for the unmodified compiler produced with the modified > compiler. Yes. Note, however, that the compiler as distributed by you differs from the original compiler only in running somewhat faster. It does not produce better code than the original compiler. > Since I'm not distributing binaries created by the modified > compiler, I'm not required by the GPL to give source for the > modifications that ultimately resulted in the faster compiler > (just as I'm not required to give sources to the SunSoft compiler > I used to produce a GCC). > > In this way, I can subvert the spirit, but not the letter, of > the GPL. Don't see how you are subverting the spirit. Then compiling with any non-freely available compiler would be subverting the spirit. Who cares? The purpose of the GPL is not to prohibit use of non-free software. > The GPL is a poor instantiation of a legal instrument to back a > philosophical cause. We now have people crying over the GPL being too strict and people laughing at it being too lenient. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: kfox@pt0204.pto.ford.com (Ken Fox) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: 4 Sep 1998 22:23:07 GMT Organization: Ford Motor Company, Powertrain Sender: kfox@pt0204 (Ken Fox) Distribution: world Message-ID: <6spp8b$bhf10@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> Jeff Johnson <jajohnson@dmenet.com> writes: > Paul Miller wrote in message <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com>: > > How many more years do you think it'll take them to "invent" resizable > > dialogs? > ... > Number two, I don't think dialogs should be resizable, with the exception > of perhaps a More>> button. Dialogs pop up for a specific purpose. The user > shouldn't be able to "play" with them. Maybe you've never used software that could intelligently resize? I'm so used to resizing dialogs to give me more room for typing text or viewing icons or *whatever* that I really miss it on Windows. Resizing is *way* better than scrolling! - Ken -- Ken Fox (kfox@ford.com) | My opinions or statements do | not represent those of, nor are Ford Motor Company, Powertrain | endorsed by, Ford Motor Company. Analytical Powertrain Methods Department | Software Development Section | "Is this some sort of trick | question or what?" -- Calvin
From: Axel Boldt <axel@uni-paderborn.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 05 Sep 1998 01:29:12 +0200 Organization: none Message-ID: <xzqemtrjw3b.fsf@uni-paderborn.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <xzqzpcj6uxc.fsf@uni-paderborn.de> <6spdb2$rvk$1@Mars.mcs.net> les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <xzqzpcj6uxc.fsf@uni-paderborn.de>, > Axel Boldt <axel@uni-paderborn.de> wrote: > >as soon as you make a copy you are bound by the license, > >because without the license, you wouldn't have the right to make a > >copy, let alone a modification. > > How can you be bound by a license you not only haven't agreed to but > don't even have until after you have the copy in question, at which > point it is already your copy? The initial copy you have is yours without agreeing to the accompanying license. It was given to you by the distributor with no strings attached. Any further copies you make yourself would be illegal unless you agree to the license. Just because you legally own something doesn't mean that you can legally copy it. > >Copyright law governs under what > >circumstances you can make copies as the name suggests. And usually, > >you can't. > > Right - it is the distributor who arranges that you can, and if he > does so without enforcing prior agreement to the license terms the > recipient isn't bound by them until/unless he decides to also > distribute. Nope, distribution doesn't matter at all. Somebody hands you a leaflet in the street, you bring it home, make a copy for yourself and you have just committed an illegal act. Of course, if you don't distribute, it's much less likely that it'll ever be discovered. > >Distribution matters only in sofar as it increases the > >possible penalty. > > Since the GPL restricts *only* how you have to distribute if > you choose to do so, the rest is irrelevant in this context anyway. The way I read section 2 of the GPL, it puts certain restrictions on modifications even if they aren't distributed. -- Axel Boldt ** axel@uni-paderborn.de ** math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 5 Sep 1998 00:33:39 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6sqifj$5rs$1@Mars.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> In article <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net>, Tim Smith <tzs@halcyon.com> wrote: >In article <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net>, Leslie Mikesell <les@MCS.COM> wrote: >>>Please show me where in the GPL anyone is granted unrestricted right >>>to modify a covered work as long as it is not distributed. The GPL >>>repeatedly states that modification can only be done under the terms >>>of the license. >> >>As a license the GPL is not binding unless both parties agree to it. >>It is the copyright that restricts distribution, with the exception >>that it is allowed if you agree to the terms of the license. If you >>don't distribute, you aren't bound by the license. A distributor > >Copyright also prohibits modification. If you are modifying for your own >use and are not going to distribute, the fair use doctrine might apply, but >that is far from certain. Is it illegal to scribble notes in the margin of a purchased book? Does it matter if the subject of the book is about guaranteeing your freedom to share and make changes? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
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From: John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:31:45 +0100 Organization: JMWA Electronics Consultancy Message-ID: <fFI0cIBBxF81Ew$e@jmwa.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com> <6sordn$fj9@handupme.avid.com> <Pine.SOL.3.96.980904154812.4763D-100000@n9b> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.980904154812.4763D-100000@n9b>, Chris <pagec5@cs.man.ac.uk> writes >This has to be asked - does this mean you make principals? And if so, >which schools are run by principals you have made... Well, he's not a principle engineer - principles are reserved for physicists and phlosphers, like Archimedes. Of course, he is not an unprincipled engineer, so.... -- Regards, John Woodgate, Phone +44 (0)1268 747839 Fax +44 (0)1268 777124. OOO - Own Opinions Only. You can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't please some of the people any of the time.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 01:37:37 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F0F851.794BDF32@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> <xfgu32t3x7z.fsf@omsi14.omsi.com> <35EE53D5.41C67EA6@spam.me> <EyqA7D.F0A@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Stump wrote: ] >The GPL is a poor instantiation of a legal instrument to back a ] >philosophical cause. ] ] This sounds like not only your opinion, but also your interpretation ] of what you think the philosophical cause is. ] ] Please back up your claim. I believe the Philosophical underpinning of the GNU Public License are those which are put forward in the GNU manifesto. Otherwise it would be the GNUGPL (GNUG is Note GNU or UNIX 8-)). ] Please show a better legal instrument to back the cause. I would actually prefer that that particular cause not be backed; however, the "SleepyCat" license appears to be able to effectively GPL UCBL'ed code without shooting itself in the foot. ] I have yet to see one. I don't doubt you can come up ] with one, just I think that yours will have many flaws of ] it's own, and hence your opinion that it is better is just ] because you fail to see all the holes with it, or that your ] opinion of the holes that we find with it will be that they ] aren't holes at all. You make my point, that it is a legal instrument to back a philosophical cause. I made my own point about it being a ppor one, when I demonstrated a method of subverting intent. If you want me to go further, I can (as I have in the past in postings to gnu.misc.discuss -- see www,dejanews.com) demonstrate that the LGPL limits its own propagation by failing to observe (and allow) the limitations of currently deployed shared library technology (to wit: the use of data rather than procedural interfaces, and the inclusion, by the current technology, of the initialized data in the program image, rather than mapping it from the library). Commercial vendors should be aware of this before linking LPGL code shared, rather than supplying relinkable object modules now and/or being forced to supply them later. I think they are better instruments possible. I don't see a lot of effort at updating the existing ones coming from the FSF, despite people pointing out the limitations of the current licenses with regard to the stated goals of the manifesto. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 01:46:42 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F0FA72.15FB7483@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <6s1chb$3nj$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <m3vhnfd7jy.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <35EE54BD.167EB0E7@spam.me> <m3zpchjz11.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: ] >> You may release your code under as many licenses you wish. ] > ] > Ah, a person who truly fails to understand the concepts behind ] > a derivative work of a derivative work, and the FSF suit against ] > a certain purveyor of a certain cryptography library... ] ] What part of «your code» is it that is difficult to understand? I ] suspect it's the «your» part, which does not mean «everything that you ] have laid eyes on», but rather «written by you». If code is written to specifically use interfaces of a GPL'ed work, and there are no otherwise available implementation of said interfaces, then that code is a derivative work of the GPL'ed work, and therefore must be GPL'ed. I can not relicense that work under other terms, because it is derivative. The Free Software Foundation in fact has filed suit in two cases to enforce this interpretation. This is, in fact their right, which I would willing defend, since they are the copyright holder of the work from which the works in question were derived. But let us not hide the consequences of derivation of code from GPL'ed code: all such code is distributable only under terms of the GPL, due to its origin. This is a consequence of the intent of the GPL with regard to derivative works, but one which is frequently glossed over by zealots who are willing to advance the philosophical cause at the cost of implicit subtrefuge against the unwary. The argument that "everyone should be wary" is not a compelling counter-claim for no implicit subtrefuge occurring. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 02:10:26 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kastrup wrote: ] Now what you might have been thinking of is not releasing something ] under those respective licenses, but basing one's products on work by ] others released under those licenses. In the latter case, the ] original authors of the GPLed stuff have the right to demand that if ] you do release stuff based on work from them without further ] negotiation with them, you have to do so providing source under the ] GPL. One of the great philosophical benefits, in terms of promoting the vision of the future outlined in the GNU manifesto, is that once released under GPL, software authorship becomes a public trust, and very quickly authorship is diluted to the point that there is no possibility of negotiating for terms other than the GPL. A corrolarry to this, which you are also ignoring, is that the philosophical bent of "true fanatics", such as Richard Stallman or Jeremy Allison (Hi Jeremy! I'm taking your name in vain...) is such that, even if authorship were assigned to a single legal entity, like the FSF or the SAMBA team, the people with whom you would have to negotiate would find such an attempt morally repugnant. And once again, the goals of the GNU manifesto are promoted by the license. ] But if I am the sole author of a work, releasing under the GPL ] gives my competitors much less grounds for exploitation in a ] manner I would not like. Certainly. Assuming you could recoup your capital outlay in some fashion in order to stay around as a legal entity and enforce the terms. You wouldn't be able to use the normal "amortization of developement costs over cost of product" model, since your competitor would be able to undercut your pricing, since he had no initial capitol outlay required to get the code. He merely asked for the source code. The upshot of this is that you may see commercial companies releasing code under GPL if it is *tactical* and not *strategic* code, and you *will* see companies underwriting the identifieable central points (the SAMBA team, Cygnus, the FSF) for incremental and productization work (i.e., "work for hire"), but for example an airline ticketting and reservation system won't appear out of the mire. Nor will you see VISA, American Express, MasterCard, and Discover cooperating on credit card billing software. Anywhere there is true competitive advantage, you won't see GPL'ed code (since, by definition, it *can't* yield competitive advantage, since your competitor can demand source, and there goes the advantage). This still leaves a hell of a lot of code out there for potential targetting in support of the GNU manifesto; certainly more code than most commercial interests currently understand, since not many make the strategic/tactical distinction, which is where the pro-GPL monetary arguments can be made. But by the same token, it's not going to be taking over the world any time soon. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 02:15:42 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F1013E.1CFBAE39@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> <6smrqo$gmu$1@flea.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt Dillon wrote: ] :>Not true. Otherwise Linux would be more successful than ] :>Windows. Quod Erat Demonstradum. ] ] Linux hasn't been around very long compared to Windows, so I don't ] this it's really fair to make such a statement. By the same token, Windows95 and Windows98 and WindowsNT haven't been around very long compared to Linux. If you want to lump these in with "Windows"... well, I'll feel free to lump Linux in with UNIX, and the argument still stands. ] Besides, whos to say how Linux will stack up to Windows in ] a year or two? Anyone willing to write the code, and anyone with editorial control over the CVS tree commits, IMO. ] I, for one, am rooting for Linux to beat Windows' ass. And ] I'll be there, running all those apps on my FreeBSD box :-) Me, too. 8-). Start by getting Microsoft to port Office98. Apple proved that they could be bought... "We've established what you are, ma'am; now we're just halling over price". 8-). Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 02:20:44 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F1026C.3F54BC7E@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <6sqifj$5rs$1@Mars.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leslie Mikesell wrote: ] Is it illegal to scribble notes in the margin of a purchased ] book? Does it matter if the subject of the book is about ] guaranteeing your freedom to share and make changes? Weren't you the guy arrested at the used bookstore for trying to steal a copy of Abie Hoffman's "Steal This Book"? Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 02:35:54 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F105FA.FF6D5DF@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt Dillon wrote: ] :>>> It isn't a major point, but my feeling is because companies can't ] :>>> prevent the further redistribution of source code if it is GPLed ] :>>> but can if is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code ] :>>> will tend to be higher. ] :> ] :>Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree, please state why. I disagree because the cost of maintenance of GPL'ed code can not be recouped by the company paying for the maintenance to occur. Maintenance of GPL'ed code is either strategically or altruistically motivated. In the case of Cygnus, people are paid to maintain the code as a method of the people paying for the maintenance exercising control over direction and specific areas of concentration. In other words, for strategic advantage. ] Umm, Mike, you seem to be under the incorrect impression that the ] BSD copyright prevents people from submitting derived works back ] into the freeware pool. ] ] This couldn't be further from the truth. At BEST.COM we ] submit most of our changes to the FreeBSD sourcebase back ] to the FreeBSD group. Certainly all bug fixes. We do keep ] a few items to ourselves, i.e. we have a few 'proprietary' ] extensions that we've developed. These extensions (obviously) have tactical rather than strategic value. Now the $64 question: what would you do about these changes if you knew someone were contemplating reimplementing them in the public source base, and that their implementation might conflict with your use? I'm sure I know the answer, but for Mike's benefit... ] My personal goals are really simple: ] ] (A) force open standards and APIs ] (B) force a minimum competency for commercially sold code ] (C) to be remembered, even if only by programmer bogons ] like me. Me, too. Technically apt standards are the most important thing; "raising the bar" for commercial companies are next most important. The third is less important; like Woody Allen, "Some people try to achive immortality through their works; others attempt to achieve immortality through their children; as for me, I would prefer to achieve immortality by not dying". "Beating XXX", whoever "XXX" is, is really unimportant; I don't believe life is a zero-sum game. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: wmcbrine@clark.net (William McBrine) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 5 Sep 1998 16:55:07 GMT Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic Message-ID: <6srqdb$cu4$1@clarknet.clark.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6q9b$1u7$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <m2ogt23lpm.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <35F1026C.3F54BC7E@spam.me> How about the Mozilla license? It's GPL-like, but it reserves special rights to the Netscape Corporation. Might other companies adopt this? Could it be a BSD license killer? ;-) -- William McBrine | http://www.clark.net/~wmcbrine/ wmcbrine@clark.net | ./\./\./\./\./\./\./\./\./\./\.
From: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 5 Sep 1998 11:55:11 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6ss1ef$7f4$1@flea.best.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> <35F105FA.FF6D5DF@spam.me> :In article <35F105FA.FF6D5DF@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: :>Matt Dillon wrote: :>] :>>> It isn't a major point, but my feeling is because companies can't :.. :>] a few items to ourselves, i.e. we have a few 'proprietary' :>] extensions that we've developed. :> :>These extensions (obviously) have tactical rather than strategic :>value. Most of them. Everything related to FreeBSD-specific code, certainly. All the strategic code, and there is a lot of it, is in custom-build subsystems to handle web serving, provisioning, installation & maintenance, scaleability, and so forth. :>Now the $64 question: what would you do about these changes :>if you knew someone were contemplating reimplementing them :>in the public source base, and that their implementation might :>conflict with your use? That's a no brainer... when any of our extensions are implemented in the public source base, we throw away our private mods in that area. This has actually happened a few times, not so much because we wanted to keep the extensions proprietary but because we felt our version was too much of a hack to submit back. Someone else would implement the same extension more cleanly, throw it back into the source dist, and we'd bring it in and throw our proprietary version away. -Matt -- Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications <dillon@best.net> (Please include original email in any response)
From: Maksym Kozub <kozub@elan-ua.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:54:35 +0300 Organization: "ELAN ISP" Message-ID: <35F188EB.6A619CEC@elan-ua.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m2k93lmmd0.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: mail.elan-ua.net!unknown@p2m2.elan-ua.net David Kastrup wrote: > Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > > > The fact is that if people want to pay for a binary distribution with > > modifications (and without source), then there have added value to the > > original, and it is this added value people pay for. > > > > Another way to license would be to require them to inform that there > > is a free version available; this make sure that people that elect to > > pay for their modified version know that they are paying only for the > > added value. The fact that adding value might be less work than > > creating the original that the value is added to does not IMO subtract > > from the fact that they are adding value. > > The problem with that is that you get dozens of different people > offering added value, and all of these will remain incompatible. As a > user, you cannot buy into the added value of more than a single > value-adder. That is bad. If too many people jump onto the > added-value track, the original project gets splintered beyond > recognition. There are by now dozens of different incompatible > offsprings of the original BSD code around, a lot of which with added > value without available source, and the customer has to pick one of > them and forget the others. Tired of Windows, I decided to try and use some free flavor of UN*X, particularly as I'm planning to make a LAN in our residential block, with Internet access, etc. I read some articles, I spoke to some people whose experience I trust, and I chose FreeBSD. Now it's been 4 days as I have it installed on my 2nd HDD and been learniong how to use it etc. For me, it's nothing bad in the fact that I have to "forget the others" (NetBSD/OpenBSD/etc.) If I get dissatisfied with FreeBSD some day (although I don't expect I will), I'll have to think which other OS to choose. What's wrong with that, finally? I am a user (= a leech :)) ) all of you are talking about. Not a developer. Not a software business owner. Just a translator/interpreter with (fortunately) some computer literacy to install software, make a netywork, etc. on my own. I see a lot of software (proxy servers, MTAs, MUAs, etc.) which works under FreeBSD. I just have to use Windows for my work as a translator, until somebody (probably M$ themselves :) ) releases an office productivity suite to support MS Word 7.0 format, which is required by most of my customers. Again, what's wrong with the fact that I had more than one product (even incompatible ones) to choose from, and I've made my choice? > The basically GPLed system Linux, in contrast, is still very much an > effort with a single mainstream. When the added value of a single > party gets too exciting, it is simply incorporated into other party's > products (for example, the RPM package format). Windows is also "an effort with a single mainstream", even more than Linux is :). So what? Is being "an effort with a single mainstream" any good in and of itself? Many people (including those who've installed Linux) complain that RedHat becomes second M$, and in 10 years we'll have something like "Lintel" platform instead of Wintel... Is it your objective? (I have nothing against Linux itself, please don't start any flame around that. I'll probably try Linux as well when I get another (bigger) HDD. I just mean that "compatibility", "unity", etc. are not always values for themselves, and they themselves are not related anyhow to the freedom all of us try to stand for.) > While quite a bit can be explained by differences in management and > the relative youth of Linux as compared to BSD, I suspect the > licensing to form a non-negligible part of the relative unity of > Linux development. See above about "unity". Thanks to FreeBSD team for their product. Thanks to Linus for his product. Thanks to BG and M$ (at least for a product to compare UN*Xes against :) ). God bless variety of choice. Regards, -- Maksym Kozub Translator/interpreter (English, Polish, Ukrainian, Russian) Kyiv, Ukraine------tel/fax (380 44) 442 4742------ICQ UIN: 9197548 kozub@gu.kiev.ua kozub@elan-ua.net You can also try http://www.kozub.dyn.ml.org (experimental site, down most of the time!)
From: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 5 Sep 1998 11:57:39 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6ss1j3$7m9$1@flea.best.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> <6smrqo$gmu$1@flea.best.net> <35F1013E.1CFBAE39@spam.me> :In article <35F1013E.1CFBAE39@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: :>Matt Dillon wrote: :>] :>Not true. Otherwise Linux would be more successful than :>] :>Windows. Quod Erat Demonstradum. :>] :>] Linux hasn't been around very long compared to Windows, so I don't :>] this it's really fair to make such a statement. :> :>By the same token, Windows95 and Windows98 and WindowsNT :>haven't been around very long compared to Linux. Yes, but the context of the argument is the 'ready user base' and 'commercial acceptance'... unless you are defining 'more successful' differently then from what I suspect you meant, W95, 98, and NT all stack up in the 'windows' category. -Matt :> :> Terry Lambert :>--- -- Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications <dillon@best.net> (Please include original email in any response)
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 5 Sep 1998 12:16:05 -0700 Organization: Institute of Lawsonomy Message-ID: <6ss2ll$4vb$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> Cache-Post-Path: 52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net!tzs@localhost Mark Wooding <mdw@ebi.ac.uk> wrote: >No. Here I'd lose, because I'd have helped a company make money out of >Hoarding software, and I did most of the work for them. I wouldn't be >even slightly happy about that. Suppose I have a business other than selling software. I can take your GPL'ed code, make proprietary mods, and use it in my business, without having to release the source code, since I am not distributing the software. Even if your software becomes the cornerstone of my business, making me a huge amount of money, I do not have to give you money nor even tell people I'm using your code. Why is this less upsetting than when someone who wants to use a small part of your GPL'ed code in a proprietary program that they will be distributing under a non-GPL license? --Tim Smith
From: dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 3 Sep 1998 20:31:09 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> :In article <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@kithrup.com> wrote: :>In article <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com>, :>John S. Dyson <root@dyson.iquest.net> wrote: :>>The term "hijack" is non-operative here. Given that, the "advantage" :>>that GPLed code cannot be "hijacked" is specious. :> :>Fine, I withdraw the term hijack, but that doesn't alter my statement, :>and that doesn't alter it's truth. Let me rephase it for you, then you :>can comment on the substance of my claim instead of nitpicking the :>corners. :> :>>> It isn't a major point, but my feeling is because companies can't :>>> prevent the further redistribution of source code if it is GPLed :>>> but can if is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code :>>> will tend to be higher. :> :>Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree, please state why. Umm, Mike, you seem to be under the incorrect impression that the BSD copyright prevents people from submitting derived works back into the freeware pool. This couldn't be further from the truth. At BEST.COM we submit most of our changes to the FreeBSD sourcebase back to the FreeBSD group. Certainly all bug fixes. We do keep a few items to ourselves, i.e. we have a few 'proprietary' extensions that we've developed. The BSD copyright allows us to do this. GPL does not. We get the best of both worlds out of it. GPL has a number of specific, codified goals. BSD is pretty much wide open except for the requirement that authors be duly credited. This argument seems to devolve into the topic of restricting commercial gain and the topic of keeping open-sources freely distributable. But you know what? I don't think either of those two topics are worthwhile long term goals. My personal goals are really simple: (A) force open standards and APIs (B) force a minimum competency for commercially sold code (C) to be remembered, even if only by programmer bogons like me. I don't give a damn if other companies profit from any work I do in regards to FreeBSD, Linux, or other multi-developer freeware projects. In fact, I get a big kick whenever a company successfully makes money using a freebsd core, whether its a proprietary turnkey system or not. Now, lets see how GPL and BSD stack up to *MY* personal goals: GPL enforces my goal of open standards and APIs by enforcing open source distribution of derived works. It enforces a minimum competency for commercially sold code by presenting code that a commercial company must beat at the very least, and the authors names are typically prominantly displayed. Great. Unfortunately, GPL also tends to preach to the quire. I don't see it picking up many converts directly. Instead, it relies on there being a big enough quire to force companies with proprietary standards to comply. Force means resistance, resistance means slow acceptance. ( And it should be noted here that bringing up Linux is not a good counter-argument in favor of GPL, at least in view of my personal goals, because virtually all the standards that Linux itself uses were derived from open UNIX standards. ) In general, this codification that GPL does doesn't seem particularly effective to me. It works, but it doesn't hit the whole audience directly. The BSD copyright, on the otherhand, lures in the very commercial entities who are not on the freeware bandwagon. Precisely the people we want, and it uses a lure rather then trying to bludgeon them into complying... the BSD copyright allows these entities to continue making proprietary extensions and does not restrict them commercially in any significant way. They can sell the derived works and don't have to give away the source. Once they start using BSD'd code, they are inherently using many open standards and APIs whether they like it or not. You might think: "Well, the BSD copyright doesn't prevent them from rewriting the APIs and making them proprietary". It sure doesn't, but short of rewriting all the code, most of the standards and APIs will survive intact anyway. And anyone who decides to rewrite the code might as well have not used the free source in the first place. It is my firm belief, because I've already seen this in action, that commercial companies will submit bug fixes and many of their customizations back into the general BSD copyrighten source pool. We do it, BSDI does it, all sorts of companies do it. It works, and therefore a sufficiently advanced source base under the BSD copyright will continue to thrive. One big maintenance headache removed makes commercial companies happy. This handles my second goal nicely. And since the BSD copyright requires authors to be credited, it handles my third goal nicely too. For my *personal* goals, the BSD copyright is much more effective then GPL. The BSD copyright's own goals having nothing to do with GPL. You can argue that the BSD copyright doesn't cover GPL's goals as well as GPL does and you'd be right, and you can argue that GPL doesn't cover the BSD copyright's goals and you'd be right, but you can't really argue that GPL is somehow 'better', in general terms, then BSD, nor can you argue that the BSD copyright is 'better', in general terms, then the GPL. The reason this thread has become a flame war is because each individual has his or her own personal goals and, for the most part, people are wording their postings in general 'this is better then that' terms without explicitly saying 'this is better then that for MY personal goals'. You can argue that GPL or BSD will be better for your personal goals, but you cannot really argue that GPL or BSD is better 'in general terms'. Try defining your personal goals first, then compare them to what the BSD copyright and GPL both offer you. See where you get, and argue over that in-context. -Matt -- Matthew Dillon Engineering, HiWay Technologies, Inc. & BEST Internet Communications <dillon@best.net> (Please include original email in any response)
From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <lmi@gnus.org> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 05 Sep 1998 22:14:57 +0200 Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <m3u32me2pq.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m390kbepbx.fsf@sparky.gnus.org> <8690kbppst.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <6ss2ll$4vb$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mail-Copies-To: never lDARi8e8iT<(A$LWAZD*xjk^')/wI5nG;1cNB>~dS|}-P0~ge{$c!h\<y tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith) writes: > Suppose I have a business other than selling software. I can take your > GPL'ed code, make proprietary mods, and use it in my business, without > having to release the source code, since I am not distributing the > software. Even if your software becomes the cornerstone of my business, > making me a huge amount of money, I do not have to give you money nor > even tell people I'm using your code. You, of course, have the freedom not to distribute your changes. Anything else would be absurd. > Why is this less upsetting than when someone who wants to use a small part > of your GPL'ed code in a proprietary program that they will be distributing > under a non-GPL license? Because you would then be denying the freedoms you received from the people you distribute the program to. On a more practical level, having proprietary derivatives (that have nice features) of free programs tend to take the focus away from the free versions of the programs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) lmi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 6 Sep 1998 02:02:56 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6ssqgg$pnq@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6sa5op$if5@lace.colorado.edu> <m2u32sumkl.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <m2u32sumkl.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >> >> If GPL prohibits this (as I believe it does, although the >> >> details of GPL are byzantine), then GPL is unfair. >> >Byzantine? Strange accusation. >> Err... what word would you use for complex (especially in a legal >> sense), difficult to understand, and created for a political >> purpose? >Well, Webster lists Byzantine as >4a: of, relating to, or characterized by a devious and usu. surreptitious > manner of operation <fits a pattern of byzantine firings > and near-firings that have long kept ... executives looking over > their shoulders --Paul Ingrassia> >4b: LABYRINTHINE <searching in the byzantine complexity of the > record for leads, defenses, and, in the case of Government lawyers, > evidence of perjured testimony --B L. Collier> >so I may have missed meaning 4b. I might argue for 4a as well. Specifically because I can think of lots of people who use and base code on GPL software without fully understanding the terms. This would be ``a devious and usu. surreptitious manner of operation'', since the full text of the GPL does not automatically come with all GPLed code. (In fact, I've never seen the GPL as comments at the beginning of source code, as is the usual case with BSDL code.) I would call asking someone to agree to a license without giving them the full text to be a ``devious'' or ``surreptitious manner of operation''. Of course, they can get the text, if they feel like looking it up. But many people don't bother, many wouldn't use GPL code if they did. >...But I deny that the GPL is complex >and difficult to understand. Please quote any passage of the GPL that >you consider too complicated to understand. The problem is that it is lengthy (relative to, say, the BSDL). Overall, it is no worse than any other legal document of similar length. Which means I could work my way through it, and probably figure it out, but I wouldn't be confident that I completely understood it. I might misunderstand a particular phrase, or the meaning might be vague. For a specific example, see below. >> Of course, if it can be freely distributed once you give it out, >> it isn't obvious how you could make money from this. ``You can >> buy it from me, or you can get it from my first customer for >> free...'' >You can, if you happen to be on good terms with the first customer, >know his address and if the customer will be willing to make a copy >and give it to you. If he is sufficiently so, he will probably hand >you a secret copy even if that would be illegal. Not at all. The first customer might have more money to advertise than the author. You don't have to be on good terms with someone selling you software, and an ad would contain the seller's address and (implicitly) his willingness to make a copy. In such a case, the first customer would get all the money, and the author would get none. (At least until a later customer could out-market the first, but even then the author wouldn't be getting any money for his efforts.) >> Returning to the point about complexity of the GPL license, >> your comment seems to say that, if I use GPLed code, I must >> GPL releases of my work. This is, in fact, incorrect. GPL >> isn't infinitely infectious. As a specific example, I recently >> inherited a lengthy, scientific code which uses GPL C++ >> libraries (specifically extensions of array, matrix, and >> complex variable support.) >GPLed or LGPLed? That is an important difference. I'd have to check. However, for the sake of the argument, let's assume that it was GPLed. (I doubt the author would have known about the difference, see above about people using/modifying GPLed code without knowing the details of the license.) >> The author added quite a bit to that library, and then used it >> extensively as part of his scientific code (an electrostatic PIC >> simulation, if anyone cares.) Now, he clearly used GPLed code. Does >> that mean he has to GPL the code? No. >If he used GPLed code for a non-GPLed product, he is breaking the >original license. He has to GPL the resulting code. Not because the >resulting product is "infected" or anything, but because nothing else >gives him the right to be using the GPLed code if he does not adhere >to its license. This is a simple matter of terminology. If adhering to the license means he _has_ to GPL the code, I would call it ``infected.'' If you don't like that term, fine. But the meaning does not chance. >Please state the software you are talking about and what GPL code it >has been using, and it will be able to check up on whether your >acquaintance has been misinterpreting the GPL. The scientific code has not been distributed to anyone outside of the research group that paid for its development. (Well, mostly: I'm not technically part of that group, but I was working for them when I got a copy...) I'm not sure what the package of library routines is called, but they contain the following comment at the start of the files: /* Copyright (C) 1988, 1992 Free Software Foundation written by Doug Lea (dl@rocky.oswego.edu) This file is part of the GNU C++ Library. This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. This library is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU Library General Public License for more details. You should have received a copy of the GNU Library General Public License along with this library; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA. */ >> >It is fair in the respect that you got exactly the same rights with >> >the original software. Writing that original software took a huge >> >amount of work. >> And if I used perhaps 1% of the GPL code and wrote the other 99% >> myself? In that case, I'd say my time and effort have priority. >If the 1% is unimportant and you don't like the licensing, you are a >fool for not writing the 1% yourself. Either you can do so easily, >then do it, or you can't, in which case you cannot call it >insignificant with regard to the entire work. This is bullshit. If a GPL library redefines the complex vector class so that *= is a valid operator, how would you suggest that I rewrite that? There is only one valid, C++ way to do that. The only way I could rewrite it in a different way would be to use different variable names, or perhaps indent the source code in a different manner. In some cases, there is only one right way to do things, and I _can't_ rewrite a few lines of code, unless you consider trivial changes ``rewriting''. >Nope. The GPL does not draw a line in between. It merely explains >where the 0% line is located: > These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If > identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, > and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in > themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those > sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you > distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based > on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of > this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the > entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. Ok. Here is a specific example of why I consider GPL confusing. I _think_ this means my friend could freely distribute his scientific code, without GPLing it, _if_ he didn't distribute the GNU libraries that the code needs. But if he distributes the libraries as well, he has to GPL the whole thing. But I've had to read that clause three times before I'm reasonably sure I understand it. As far as I'm concerned, anything that has to be read more than once is, as I said earlier, ``complex (especially in a legal sense) [and] difficult to understand''. However, I _still_ don't think I understand it. Say Sun included gmake (or any other GPLed code) in their next distribution of their Solaris operating system. Would that make Solaris ``part of a whole which is a work based on the Program''? (Say, for the same of the argument, that somewhere, gmake was needed to compile something, so the later clause about ``aggregation of another work not based on the Program'' wouldn't apply.) If so, Sun would have to hand out source to their operating system for free. If _even_a_single_bit_ of GPLed code in a distribution means that the _entire_ distribution must be GPLed, then I suspect many commercial operating systems are violating the GPL. More likely, I am misunderstanding something about the GPL. But that gets back to the point about how clear and easy to understand it is. An additional problem with GPL is ownership of the code. The scientific code I mentioned was paid for (written under contract.) The person who paid for it assumes that it is proprietary, and probably has never heard of GPL. He doesn't micromanage to the point of asking which libraries an employee is using in his code. So this creates a legal problem (assuming the code should be GPLed.) Legally, the person who paid for developing the code owns the rights to it. That was part of the contract under which the author was paid. But if the GPL says the code has to be GPLed (since it uses GPLed libraries) then it is freely available if distributed. That's an important conflict: By contract law, someone owns the code and it is proprietary; according to GPL and licensing law, he doesn't own it (fully.) The fact that I do not know how this would be resolved is another reason why I consider GPL difficult to understand. Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <6406904449623@digifix.com> Date: 6 Sep 1998 03:47:39 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <2705905054425@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. 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Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. 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USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 06 Sep 1998 09:11:01 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2soi5ium2.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m2k93lmmd0.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F188EB.6A619CEC@elan-ua.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Sep 1998 07:11:03 GMT Maksym Kozub <kozub@elan-ua.net> writes: > Many people (including those who've installed Linux) complain that > RedHat becomes second M$, and in 10 years we'll have something like > "Lintel" platform instead of Wintel... Is it your objective? Look, they are licensing everything under the GPL. If some-one does not like their product, he can just take it and change it and sell his own version of it. I fail to see how they can effect a monopoly with unfair business practices like Microsoft does. If they did in fact achieve a de-facto monopoly, it would have to be out of technical superiority, and everyone could jump into the game and do the same with their product. However, a lot of other distributions *are* alive and kicking, so this scenario is not so very likely. It would also be a strategic weakness, because then some confusion might result from, say, a hostile takeover of RedHat from Microsoft, even though it will not one bit change the existing code base being available to the public. As things stand currently, the possibility of hostile takeovers of Linux is not anything you could attempt in any useful way. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 06 Sep 1998 09:37:19 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2pvd9ite8.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2zpcrg8xg.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6sa5op$if5@lace.colorado.edu> <m2u32sumkl.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6ssqgg$pnq@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Sep 1998 07:37:25 GMT fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > [dak:] > >...But I deny that the GPL is complex > >and difficult to understand. Please quote any passage of the GPL that > >you consider too complicated to understand. > > The problem is that it is lengthy (relative to, say, the BSDL). Not that much. There are several different issues being addressed, and in pretty clear language. > for them when I got a copy...) I'm not sure what the package > of library routines is called, but they contain the following > comment at the start of the files: > /* > Copyright (C) 1988, 1992 Free Software Foundation > written by Doug Lea (dl@rocky.oswego.edu) > > This file is part of the GNU C++ Library. This library is free > software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of > the GNU Library General Public License as published by the Free > Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your > option) any later version. That's the LGPL, not the GPL. It basically stipulates that people getting the software from you (a closed circle of developers, anyhow, as you say) must be free to link the software with newer versions of the library. Apart from that, the software does not restrict the licensing of the code usin it. Please don't confuse LGPL with GPL. > >If the 1% is unimportant and you don't like the licensing, you are a > >fool for not writing the 1% yourself. Either you can do so easily, > >then do it, or you can't, in which case you cannot call it > >insignificant with regard to the entire work. > > This is bullshit. If a GPL library redefines the complex vector > class so that *= is a valid operator, how would you suggest > that I rewrite that? Make your own header file, link your corresponding object before the default C++ library. This would work even if the C++ library was not LGPLed. > >Nope. The GPL does not draw a line in between. It merely explains > >where the 0% line is located: > > These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If > > identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, > > and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in > > themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those > > sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you > > distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based > > on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of > > this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the > > entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it. > Ok. Here is a specific example of why I consider GPL confusing. > I _think_ this means my friend could freely distribute his scientific > code, without GPLing it, _if_ he didn't distribute the GNU libraries > that the code needs. We are talking about LGPLed code here. But anyhow, a derivative work of something else means that it is useless without it. You can distribute your source code under other licenses if the source code happens to work with other libraries as well, as it is then not a specific derivative of the GPLed library. If it works with nothing else, it is a derivative work, and you have to adhere by the same rules as if you were distributing binaries with regard to being a derivative work. That's what "independent" means: can work without it. > But if he distributes the libraries as well, > he has to GPL the whole thing. In case the library is GPLed, yes (which it obviously isn't). > Say Sun included gmake (or any other GPLed code) in their next distribution > of their Solaris operating system. Would that make Solaris ``part of > a whole which is a work based on the Program''? (Say, for the same > of the argument, that somewhere, gmake was needed to compile something, > so the later clause about ``aggregation of another work not based on the > Program'' wouldn't apply.) If so, Sun would have to hand out source to their > operating system for free. Copyright law does not make a work a derivative of the tool with which you created it. They would have to hand out the source of gmake if they were including it, but not even if they were internally using it for building the stuff. > If _even_a_single_bit_ of GPLed code in a > distribution means that the _entire_ distribution must be GPLed, then I > suspect many commercial operating systems are violating the GPL. What about "aggregation" do you not understand? This is silliness. > An additional problem with GPL is ownership of the code. The scientific > code I mentioned was paid for (written under contract.) The person who > paid for it assumes that it is proprietary, and probably has never > heard of GPL. He doesn't micromanage to the point of asking which > libraries an employee is using in his code. So this creates a legal > problem (assuming the code should be GPLed.) Legally, the person > who paid for developing the code owns the rights to it. That > was part of the contract under which the author was paid. But > if the GPL says the code has to be GPLed (since it uses GPLed > libraries) then it is freely available if distributed. That's > an important conflict: By contract law, someone owns the code > and it is proprietary; according to GPL and licensing law, he > doesn't own it (fully.) The fact that I do not know how this > would be resolved is another reason why I consider GPL difficult > to understand. Simply. If the contract was in a way demanding that the entire work was to be the legal property of the employer, and the code would not run without using GPLed (or probably even LGPLed) code, the author has broken the contract. He has not delivered a work to which his employer can claim full rights. The GPL explicitly and plainly prohibits using GPLed code for such purposes, and so the employee has no business taking shortcuts by stealing it and selling it under a different flag if his contract specifies otherwise. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 6 Sep 1998 08:06:16 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk Adrian Jackson may or may not have said: -> Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: -> > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: -> > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with -> > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) -> -> > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! -> -> Strange but true. -> -> Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 And wheels that can actually turn on axles, instead of the current wheels which are bolted to the chassis, should be here by NT 12.0, in the year 2040. -jcr -- "Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time" - Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, US Navy. Where is the line between mere incompetence and actual treason? -jcr
From: Marshall Gilula <mgilula@mindspring.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: CanonObjectStation.41 and Pentium Overdrive (85MHz) Intel plugin Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 16:58:54 -0400 Organization: Life Energies Research Institute -- http://www.mindspring.com/~mgilula Message-ID: <35EF030E.BBAF15FF@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone out there in NeXTland by any chance have any experience with upgrading of those Canon Objection Station.41 machines to an Intel Pentium Overdrive chip from the built-in DX4 100 MHz 486 chip??? This Canon machine is not listed with any of the reported upgradeable Canon systems in the Intel and Intel-related websites. Canon itself is considerably less than helpful, even with pay-for-waiting-tech-service phone lines.! (Why am I not surprised?) (No commercial slam intended in case a tech is reading this). Any private Email gratefully accepted: advice, technical information, flames. -73- Marshall Gilula mgilula@mindspring.comn
From: kpneal@pobox.com (Kevin P. Neal) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 19:16:42 GMT Organization: Keeping Warm Through Retrocomputing Message-ID: <905110157.536144@tome.pantheon.org> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s469l$lsv$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6s4ni3$o80$1@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <6s6dp0$b44@bugsbunny.matrox.com> <86pvdlni1k.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3vhnbe372.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <86iujao3ec.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <86u32u8f7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <86btp2nswu.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m2k93lmmd0.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F188EB.6A619CEC@elan-ua.net> Cache-Post-Path: tome.pantheon.org!unknown@darkwalker.pantheon.org Maksym Kozub <kozub@elan-ua.net> wrote: >Many people (including those who've installed Linux) complain that >RedHat becomes second M$, and in 10 years we'll have something like >"Lintel" platform instead of Wintel... Is it your objective? (I have >nothing against Linux itself, please don't start any flame around that. >I'll probably try Linux as well when I get another (bigger) HDD. I just >mean that "compatibility", "unity", etc. are not always values for >themselves, and they themselves are not related anyhow to the freedom >all of us try to stand for.) Lintel? Nope, won't happen -- at least, won't happen like Wintel has happened. Why? Because the Linux standards are open and published. All of them -- no exceptions (at least the kernel is, and that's what matters). You run FreeBSD. FreeBSD has Linux emulation. So even if a Lintel platform emerged instead of Wintel, you could still run FreeBSD and run Lintel executables (and user-level libraries, etc). -- Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ 'You know, I think I can hear the machine screaming from here... \ "help me! hellpp meeeee!"' - Heather Flanagan, 14:52:23 Wed Jun 10 1998
From: yuanchie@aludra.usc.edu (yuanchie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FS: Programming Books for NeXTSTEP Date: 6 Sep 1998 14:12:21 -0700 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Sender: yuanchie@aludra.usc.edu Message-ID: <6sutrl$7o6$1@aludra.usc.edu> Hi, I have three books for sale: 1. Developing NeXTSTEP Applications by Gene Backlin published by SAMS Publishing in 1995 2. NeXTSTEP Programming Step One: Object-Oriented Applications by Simson L. Garfinkel and Michael K. Mahoney published by TELOS in 1993 3. Object-Oriented Programming and the Objective-C Language published by Addison Wesley in 1993 These books are still in very good condition. I would like to sell them together. If you are interested, please make an offer for them. Thanks, yuanchie@usc.edu
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <645346C45E37D211ACDC006097D1798C8452AA@news.telebahia.net.br> Control: cancel <645346C45E37D211ACDC006097D1798C8452AA@news.telebahia.net.br> Date: 07 Sep 1998 00:11:10 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.645346C45E37D211ACDC006097D1798C8452AA@news.telebahia.net.br> Sender: hith4756@aol.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: thewhistler@sprintmail.com (Paul E Larson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:20:47 GMT Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <6svn1f$sh2$2@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> References: <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> In article <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com>, "Phil-and-Heike" <magic@bits.u-net.com> wrote: >> And wheels that can actually turn on axles, instead of the current wheels >> which are bolted to the chassis, should be here by NT 12.0, in the year 2040. > >By that time Bill will have long received a long due kick in the butt, >Windows in any form will be long dead and BEOS will rule the >the Computer World. > And BeOS might even support SCSI by then. Paul
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EyqA7D.F0A@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <1dejslo.16097zd10557zdN@mimosa.hcp.net> <xfgu32t3x7z.fsf@omsi14.omsi.com> <35EE53D5.41C67EA6@spam.me> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:54:49 GMT In article <35EE53D5.41C67EA6@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: >The GPL is a poor instantiation of a legal instrument to back a >philosophical cause. This sounds like not only your opinion, but also your interpretation of what you think the philosophical cause is. Please back up your claim. Please show a better legal instrument to back the cause. I have yet to see one. I don't doubt you can come up with one, just I think that yours will have many flaws of it's own, and hence your opinion that it is better is just because you fail to see all the holes with it, or that your opinion of the holes that we find with it will be that they aren't holes at all.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Eyq9Ip.E8K@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.105651ab39e297489896a9@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <yq3ww7mr2wf.fsf@nasrullah.tchden.org> <MPG.10580b6bba7689db9896b3@netnews.worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:40:01 GMT In article <MPG.10580b6bba7689db9896b3@netnews.worldnet.att.net>, Tony <Tony@ask.me> wrote: >GPL is unrecognized as anything but a triviality. > >Tony You're still confused. You seem to be lacking knowledge and information. Oh, wait, I know, is you real name Bill? This sounds like a wish by one large corporation I know. Why are you so afraid of the GPL?
From: c_ismora@hotmail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT and CD writing ? Date: 7 Sep 1998 10:07:56 GMT Organization: Reference.Com Posting Service Message-ID: <6t0b9s$foa$1@orthanc.reference.com> Cc: c_ismora@hotmail.com Originator: panuser@reference.com () Hello, I would like to know if someone here has any experience of using a CD writer with a black NeXT machine ? I am planning to buy a CD writer but I have been told that a 68040 NeXT should not be powerful enough to deal with something as resource intensive as CD burning (BTW, why is it so much resource consuming ? I'm not expert but I see this as no more than a bunch of IOs...) Is there something about this in a FAQ ? If someone did it, I would be interested in knowing the drive model and the software used. Thanks a lot, Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted using Reference.COM http://WWW.Reference.COM FREE Usenet and Mailing list archive, directory and clipping service --------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 7 Sep 1998 13:49:42 GMT Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> References: <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: magic@bits.u-net.com "Phil-and-Heike" may or may not have said: -> > And wheels that can actually turn on axles, instead of the current wheels -> > which are bolted to the chassis, should be here by NT 12.0, in the year 2040. -> -> By that time Bill will have long received a long due kick in the butt, -> Windows in any form will be long dead and BEOS will rule the -> the Computer World. Won't happen. BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, namely: it's all written in C++. That excreble language has killed more projects than I care to imagine. -jcr -- "Although UNIX is more reliable, NT may become more reliable with time" - Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division of the Aegis Program Executive Office, US Navy. Where is the line between mere incompetence and actual treason? -jcr
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:44:12 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com terry <dont@spam.me> writes: >David Kastrup wrote: >A corrolarry to this, which you are also ignoring, is that the >philosophical bent of "true fanatics", such as Richard Stallman >or Jeremy Allison (Hi Jeremy! I'm taking your name in vain...) >is such that, even if authorship were assigned to a single legal >entity, like the FSF or the SAMBA team, the people with whom >you would have to negotiate would find such an attempt morally >repugnant. And once again, the goals of the GNU manifesto are >promoted by the license. Wow Terry, I'm impressed. I've finally made it to your grade of "true fanatics", along with Richard. Thanks for the honor :-). We (the GPL fanatics) must be getting somewhere. I'm looking forward to a BSD licensed SMB server, available "any day now".... Oh I forgot. Everyone else writing SMB servers thinks they can get "competitive advantage" by not revealing source code so the first such licensed server would disapear into a proprietary product with proprietary enhancements pretty quickly. Hmmmm. Wonder why Samba's so successful then ? BTW Terry, "I don't want the world, just your half" :-). Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: paul@elastic.avid.com (Paul Miller) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 4 Sep 1998 13:53:59 GMT Organization: AVID Technology, Inc. Tewksbury, MA Message-ID: <6sordn$fj9@handupme.avid.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com> Tim Dawson <dawsontp@darwin.u-net.com> writes: >Of course the wheels will be unnecessarily large with an elaborate tread >pattern that entirely fails to enhance traction and requires an engine upgrade >to maintain an acceptable cruising speed. Furthermore the warranty only covers >usage on manufacturer endorsed highways... But it's what "customers have been asking for" so everyone will love them. -- Paul T. Miller | paul@elastic.avid.com Principal Engineer | Opinions expressed here are my own. Avid Technology, Inc. - Graphics and Effects Software Group
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 08 Sep 1998 01:22:01 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2soi3zexy.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Sep 1998 23:22:02 GMT To: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) writes: > terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > > >David Kastrup wrote: > >A corrolarry to this, which you are also ignoring, is that the > >philosophical bent of "true fanatics", such as Richard Stallman > >or Jeremy Allison (Hi Jeremy! I'm taking your name in vain...) > >is such that, even if authorship were assigned to a single legal > >entity, like the FSF or the SAMBA team, the people with whom > >you would have to negotiate would find such an attempt morally > >repugnant. And once again, the goals of the GNU manifesto are > >promoted by the license. Please make your attributions less ambiguous. Leaving "David Kastrup wrote:" in, stripping all that I wrote, and putting the wrote of Terry directly underneath it is giving a wrong impression. Thank you, -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEyxuE0.6A0@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <m2soi3zexy.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:54:00 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: >Please make your attributions less ambiguous. Leaving "David Kastrup >wrote:" in, stripping all that I wrote, and putting the wrote of >Terry directly underneath it is giving a wrong impression. My apologies David, I was doing the quoting by hand (posting from my shell-based netcom account) and missed a line. Please accept my apologies, the quote was meant to be entirely Terrys. Regards, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: Melissa O'Neill <NoOnSePiAlMl@cs.sfu.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: MM fonts under DPS (was: Adobe K2: Where's the Yellow Box?) Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc Date: 8 Sep 1998 00:04:01 GMT Organization: School of Computing Science, Simon Fraser University, BC, Canada Message-ID: <6t1s9h$nb0$1@morgoth.sfu.ca> References: <6t00cr$oct$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <1998090714172800.KAA18110@ladder03.news.aol.com> <6t1hjo$f29$1@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Originator: oneill@cs.sfu.ca (Melissa O'Neill) [[ Followups redirected to comp.sys.next.misc, since this message ]] [[ and its predecessor contain facts and tips, rather than advocacy. ]] WillAdams <willadams@aol.com> wrote: >> Just out of curiousity--anyone know how far Adobe got in implementing >> multiple master fonts under Display PostScript? ... and John Haugeland <jch@cube.philosophy.pitt.edu> replied: > I'm not entirely sure what your question is, but MM fonts work just fine > under DPS -- they're just postscript programs, after all (like any type-1 > font). [...] Absolutely. > In case anybody's interested, here's a quick summary of what I've done > that works: > > [Myriad of complex steps deleted]. I have an easier way, that doesn't require any proprietary tools like ATM Delxue or Y&Y's font manipulation package. A NEXTSTEP font has two parts, PostScript code that defines the font (usually a PFA file, but potentially arbitrary PostScript), and metrics used by the AppKit (in the form of an AFM file). To use a multiple master font, you need to solve two problems: generating appropriate PostScript code for an instance; and generating appropriate metrics. Both of these tasks can be accomplished by using Eddie Kohler's mminstance tools (*), which can generate a single-master AFM and PFB file from a multiple master font and metrics. (To do this, you need the master AFMs and master AMFM files, which you often don't get with the font, but you can usually find on Adobe's AFM file ftp site). (*) See http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/type/ However, I consider it wasteful to store a single-master PFB file for an instance when the DPS machinery can easily handle auto-generating the instance from its multiple-master parent (for this to work, you need to store the master font itself in the fonts directory, even though it won't have an AFM file and thus won't show up in the Fonts Panel, so that DPS can find it). With this method the PostScript code parts of the font are a simple stub that generates the instance. A downside of this approach is that the MM fonts must also be in the printer, but that's fine for my applications. Melissa. P.S. As a final touch, you can, of course, do a little tweaking so that the instances have nice names in the font panel. This requires appropriate edits to the AFM file and PostScript code file. [And for double points, you can get the font working with TeX too, which is a whole other story (but doable).] Enclosed is a sample stub, for KeplerMM10pt-Regular.font/KeplerMM10pt-Regular --- /KeplMM findfont pop % Ensure the MM findfont operator gets loaded % by loading (and discarding) an MM font % (the one we'll use!). /KeplerMM10pt-Regular /KeplMM_385_575_10_ % English Name and Actual Instance findfont dup maxlength 1 add dict begin {1 index /FID ne {def} {pop pop} ifelse} forall currentdict /FontInfo known { /FontInfo dup load dup maxlength 1 add dict begin {def} forall /FullName (Kepler MM 10pt Regular) def /FamilyName (Kepler MM 10pt) def % Nice Names for font panel, echoed in AFM % file. currentdict end def } if /FontName 1 index def currentdict end definefont pop --- To reply by e-mail, you must remove `N O S P A M' from my e-mail address.
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 7 Sep 1998 19:11:16 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >We (the GPL fanatics) must be getting somewhere. Perhaps, if you really think it is a good thing that WINE, DOSEMU and samba don't share interoperable file locking code for programs expecting netbios style locks. >I'm looking forward to a BSD licensed SMB server, >available "any day now".... Oh I forgot. Everyone >else writing SMB servers thinks they can get "competitive >advantage" by not revealing source code so the first such >licensed server would disapear into a proprietary product >with proprietary enhancements pretty quickly. Hmmmm. Wonder >why Samba's so successful then ? Samba is successful because virtually everyone in the world uses a proprietary client that can take advantage of it's services. It is also successful because the price is right, the support is good and most of the bugs have been shaken out. It would almost certainly be just as successful under a BSD-ish or other free/open source license. Do you think MS-Windows is successful because of it's license or in spite of it? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: "Phil-and-Heike" <magic@bits.u-net.com> Organization: Magic Bits Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> References: <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: 6 Sep 98 18:36:28 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 00:24:22 BST > And wheels that can actually turn on axles, instead of the current wheels > which are bolted to the chassis, should be here by NT 12.0, in the year 2040. By that time Bill will have long received a long due kick in the butt, Windows in any form will be long dead and BEOS will rule the the Computer World. Phil -- /// Beware of the Gates \\\ Team *AMIGA* <magic@bits.u-net.com>
From: Wesley Horner <wesman@azrael.uoregon.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT and CD writing ? Date: 7 Sep 1998 21:27:20 GMT Organization: University of Oregon, Eugene Message-ID: <6t1j3o$ikd$1@pith.uoregon.edu> References: <6t0b9s$foa$1@orthanc.reference.com> c_ismora@hotmail.com wrote: > I am planning to buy a CD writer but I have been told that a > 68040 NeXT should not be powerful enough to deal with something > as resource intensive as CD burning (BTW, why > is it so much resource consuming ? I'm not expert but I see > this as no more than a bunch of IOs...) > I don't know abou the NeXT but I have used 25Mhz 040 macs for buring cds at 4 speed so it should be possibe. wes -- ~~~~wesman@gladstone.uoregon.edu~~~~~~~~~~NeXTMail OK!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Vax a vicious creature known to eat 110AC and quotes through its *DCL*. Vax are usually found in groups of Vaxen called clusters where they lay in wait to ravage thier prey known as users.
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 08 Sep 1998 11:05:52 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2lnnvgej3.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Sep 1998 09:05:54 GMT les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com>, > Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: > > >I'm looking forward to a BSD licensed SMB server, > >available "any day now".... Oh I forgot. Everyone > >else writing SMB servers thinks they can get "competitive > >advantage" by not revealing source code so the first such > >licensed server would disapear into a proprietary product > >with proprietary enhancements pretty quickly. Hmmmm. Wonder > >why Samba's so successful then ? > > Samba is successful because virtually everyone in the world > uses a proprietary client that can take advantage of it's > services. > > It is also successful because the price is right, the support is > good and most of the bugs have been shaken out. > > It would almost certainly be just as successful under a BSD-ish > or other free/open source license. Of course it would, most probably even more so since more people would be using it. But the real question was: would it be there in a similar state by now if it was licensed BSDish from the beginning of development instead of GPLed? -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 08 Sep 1998 09:45:07 +0100 Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane Ltd. Sender: dom@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk Message-ID: <kgiuizdmcs.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <m2soi3zexy.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <jeremyEyxuE0.6A0@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) writes: > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > > >Please make your attributions less ambiguous. Leaving "David Kastrup > >wrote:" in, stripping all that I wrote, and putting the wrote of > >Terry directly underneath it is giving a wrong impression. > > My apologies David, I was doing the quoting by hand (posting > from my shell-based netcom account) and missed a line. > > Please accept my apologies, the quote was meant to be > entirely Terrys. Dammit, how can we have a flame war, when everybody is being so bloody polite? :-) -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Xerox studies suggest that most people print out electronic mail that is longer than half a page; paper use rises by 40 percent in offices that introduce E-mail." -- CCM
From: aaj15@dial.pipex.com (Kim Carter) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:05:21 +0100 Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Message-ID: <143ps6.pa.ln@dial.pipex.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com>, Tim Dawson <dawsontp@darwin.u-net.com> writes: > In article <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay > <URL:mailto:pvigay@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> In article <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk>, Adrian Jackson >> <URL:mailto:adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: >> > Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: >> > > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: >> > > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with >> > > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) >> > >> > > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! >> > >> > Strange but true. >> > >> > Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 >> >> Ahhh, but you'll need to upgrade the roads in order to run them. >> Only $100.00 per wheel. > > Of course the wheels will be unnecessarily large with an elaborate tread > pattern that entirely fails to enhance traction and requires an engine upgrade > to maintain an acceptable cruising speed. Furthermore the warranty only covers > usage on manufacturer endorsed highways... > The requirement for manufacturer endorsement will involve drainage channels just narrow enough to be bridged by NT 6.0 wheels (when new) and toll gates every 100 miles. In addition the fixing centres for NT 7.0 wheels shall be entirely different. Kim
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 08 Sep 1998 13:50:31 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m290juhlh4.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <m2soi3zexy.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <jeremyEyxuE0.6A0@netcom.com> <kgiuizdmcs.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Sep 1998 11:50:34 GMT Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> writes: > jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) writes: > > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > > > > >Please make your attributions less ambiguous. Leaving "David Kastrup > > >wrote:" in, stripping all that I wrote, and putting the wrote of > > >Terry directly underneath it is giving a wrong impression. > > > > My apologies David, I was doing the quoting by hand (posting > > from my shell-based netcom account) and missed a line. > > > > Please accept my apologies, the quote was meant to be > > entirely Terrys. > > Dammit, how can we have a flame war, when everybody is being so bloody > polite? :-) Sorry for that. Would it better suit your palate if I volunteered to call you a cloaca-billing platypus or could you suggest some more suitable material for this purpose? Thank you in advance for your help in establishing what could easily become the de-facto standard of flame-wars. I have not yet decided on what license to use for its final version, so if that is a problem to you, you might want to wait for an appropriate decision before joining this flame war. I can guarantee, however, that simple redistribution in source will remain legal. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
Message-ID: <35F50950.93B2D359@minds-eye.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:39:14 +0100 From: Paul Firth <paul@minds-eye.net> Organization: Minds Eye Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com> <143ps6.pa.ln@dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kim Carter wrote: > In article <ant022247d07yYVB@darwin.u-net.com>, > Tim Dawson <dawsontp@darwin.u-net.com> writes: > > In article <ant020854339q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay > > <URL:mailto:pvigay@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> In article <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk>, Adrian Jackson > >> <URL:mailto:adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > >> > Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: > >> > > >>>>> "Frampton" == Frampton Steve R <3srf@qlink.queensu.ca> writes: > >> > > Frampton> Bill Gates invented the graphical user interface with > >> > > Frampton> his Windows 3.0 creation. :^) > >> > > >> > > Ah yeah! And Bill Gates invented the wheel at around the same time! > >> > > >> > Strange but true. > >> > > >> > Round wheels will be implemented in NT 6.0 > >> > >> Ahhh, but you'll need to upgrade the roads in order to run them. > >> Only $100.00 per wheel. > > > > Of course the wheels will be unnecessarily large with an elaborate tread > > pattern that entirely fails to enhance traction and requires an engine > upgrade > > to maintain an acceptable cruising speed. Furthermore the warranty only > covers > > usage on manufacturer endorsed highways... > > > > The requirement for manufacturer endorsement will involve drainage channels > just > narrow enough to be bridged by NT 6.0 wheels (when new) and toll gates every > 100 miles. In addition the fixing centres for NT 7.0 wheels shall be entirely > different. And plus you'll need a different version of road(TM) to run NT 6.0 wheelson which has greatly improved functionality by being constructed of thouands of tiny little marbles... > > > Kim -- --------------------------------- Cheers, Paul (paul@minds-eye.net) --------------------------------- Will there be T.P ?
From: Adrian Jackson <adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:31:59 +0100 Organization: Edinburgh University Message-ID: <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Smith wrote: > <spanish inquisition> > 3 A's (Amiga, Atari and Apple). > And Acorn. > 4 As - Amiga, Atari and Apple. > <spanish> Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. <life TYPE = "Brian"> Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for us? Well, there's Amstrads. </life> Adrian
From: Paul Vigay <pvigay@bohunt.vogonpoetry.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:54:59 +0100 Organization: Bohunt Community School Message-ID: <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII In article <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk>, Steve Turnbull <URL:mailto:steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> wrote: > In message <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> > art@kether.broomstick.com (Arthur Hagen) wrote: > > > Windows was one of the LAST GUIs to arrive, well after the three A's > > (Amiga, Atari and Apple). > > Four A's: Amiga, Atari, Apple and Acorn. Always quote in alphabetical order..... ;-) Acorn, Amiga, Atari and Apple - although Amiga shouldn't really be quoted because it's a model name and not a company name. :-) -- Paul Vigay Acorn Programming, __\\|//__ Internet Consultancy http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design -----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------------- Fighting for the decline and elimination of Microsoft! Remove ".vogonpoetry" to reply by email.
From: Graham Briggs <gb226@cam.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:02:17 +0100 Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980908165918.30281E-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Adrian Jackson wrote: -)Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. -) -)<life TYPE = "Brian"> -)Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what -)computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for -)us? -) -)Well, there's Amstrads. -)</life> <more life (intruding on many NG's)> Yes, but apart from Acorn, Amigas, Ataris, Apples and Amstrads, what computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for us? Um, how about Apricots? </life>
From: murphyn@orca.cig.mot.com (Neal P. Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 8 Sep 98 18:02:20 GMT Organization: Motorola Cellular Infrastructure Group Message-ID: <murphyn.905277740@orca> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980908165918.30281E-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> Graham Briggs <gb226@cam.ac.uk> writes: >On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Adrian Jackson wrote: >-)Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. >-) >-)<life TYPE = "Brian"> >-)Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what >-)computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for >-)us? >-) >-)Well, there's Amstrads. >-)</life> ><more life (intruding on many NG's)> >Yes, but apart from Acorn, Amigas, Ataris, Apples and Amstrads, what >computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for us? >Um, how about Apricots? If one wanted to stretch reality a bit, one could include the AT&T Unix PC (aka PC7300 and 3B1). IIRC, AT&T had Olivetti build it. Does that qualify as 'Roman' in origin? Fest3er
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 8 Sep 1998 13:40:28 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: [Re: Interoperable netbios-locking] >This is their choice, not Samba's. Samba existed with >file locking code before WINE or DOSEMU (Samba has been around for >5 years remember). It obviously was not important for these >projects to have the same file locking code, as they >chose a license that precluded using the code in Samba. > >Their choice, their code. There are two ways to get interoperability. One (the hard way) is to publish a rarely-changed interface specification, the other is to allow the relevant code to be used without restriction. Samba provides neither of these and it is thus unfair to say that anyone else's choice is involved in the lack of interoperability. >>It is also successful because the price is right, the support is >>good and most of the bugs have been shaken out. > >And why do you think that happened ? Do you think community >owner ship via the GPL might have had something to do >with it ? No. Perl has these same qualities as do many other projects without the GPL restrictions. The restrictions are not a requirement for success. >>It would almost certainly be just as successful under a BSD-ish >>or other free/open source license. Do you think MS-Windows is >>successful because of it's license or in spite of it? > >I disagree. See my comments to Brett Glass (a BSD "fanatic" >if ever there was one) on the last Open Source infoworld >forum for details on how any other license than the GPL >would have derailed Samba early on. Where can I find that? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <6s4pui$5ls@ascetic.portal.ca> <Eyn3xq.95A@kithrup.com> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Message-ID: <9ydJ1.193$E9.799253@ptah.visi.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:10:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 12:10:29 CDT In article <Eyn3xq.95A@kithrup.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@kithrup.com> wrote: >Yes. But even though it is restrictive, it is the one that gives the >most freedom to code. More freedom than PD, more freedom than BSD. >You see, there is so much freedom contained in it, that people are not >free to make it not free, ever. This is a common fallacy. >With PD code, people are free to make the code not free. No. The PD code is always PD. People can make non-PD derivatives, but the PD code is still there, being completely free. >With BSD code, people are free to make the code not free. Once again, no. You can never go back and alter the license of the original BSD code, without the author's permission. The difference is only in what they can do *beyond* the free code. Once freed, the code is always free, no matter what anyone builds *on* it. If I take a public domain piece of code, add something to it, and sell the result, this does not take the original code out of the public domain. -s -- Copyright 1998, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Seeking interesting programming projects. Not interested in commuting. Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn6uaqfj.4dh.mdw@catbert.ebi.ac.uk> <35E62BCB.9548B896@ne.mediaone.net> <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Message-ID: <rEdJ1.195$E9.799253@ptah.visi.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:17:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 12:17:11 CDT In article <Eyn5uJ.Ayw@kithrup.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@kithrup.com> wrote: >I might disagree some. It isn't a major point, but my feeling is >because companies can't hijack the code if it is GPLed but than can if >is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code will tend to be >higher. I don't understand your use of the term "hijack" here. Assume I have a BSD licensed Unix system. When a company "hijacks" this source, what happens to my system? >It is the last that makes me think that GPLed software is the right >way to go. Not because companies want to, but because if they don't, >they will die. We're still 50 years out, from my crystal ball. This may be true, but there's been periods where companies had to have support for Microsoft proprietary formats or risk dying, or at least losing lots of business to people who read Word documents. "do this or die" can be either a threat or a matter of physics. My concern about GPL is that it seems to be making it more of a threat, and less a matter of physics. Yes, free software will win. Given that, I see no need, or reason, to coerce people by any means. They'll catch on eventually. -s -- Copyright 1998, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Seeking interesting programming projects. Not interested in commuting. Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam!
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:41:53 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >In article <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com>, >There are two ways to get interoperability. One (the hard way) is >to publish a rarely-changed interface specification, the other is >to allow the relevant code to be used without restriction. Samba >provides neither of these and it is thus unfair to say that anyone >else's choice is involved in the lack of interoperability. >>>It is also successful because the price is right, the support is The interface specification is published in the Samba code. I know it's not as good as a published document, but our docs are bad enough without having to write a "locking interop" guide. WINE and DOSEMU are free to implement code that works with the code in Samba - just not free to take the code *from* Samba. And that *is* their choice due to their licensing decisions. The spec is available - unlike MS locking specs where it really is trial and error to see how the Windows "family" of widely differing OS's does things. >>And why do you think that happened ? Do you think community >>owner ship via the GPL might have had something to do >>with it ? >No. Perl has these same qualities as do many other projects without >the GPL restrictions. The restrictions are not a requirement for >success. Not a *requirement*, no, but (IMHO) the GPL helped Samba greatly in this regard. As Samba is (and always will be) GPL you'll have to run another experiment with a BSD licensed SMB server to prove your case, I'm afraid :-). >>I disagree. See my comments to Brett Glass (a BSD "fanatic" >>if ever there was one) on the last Open Source infoworld >>forum for details on how any other license than the GPL >>would have derailed Samba early on. >Where can I find that? Check out "the mother of all InfoWorld forums" at : http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?70162 particularly my comment and the comments under it starting at : http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?70286 Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:47:11 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >In article <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com>, >Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >>I'm looking forward to a BSD licensed SMB server, >>available "any day now".... Oh I forgot. Everyone This is their choice, not Samba's. Samba existed with file locking code before WINE or DOSEMU (Samba has been around for 5 years remember). It obviously was not important for these projects to have the same file locking code, as they chose a license that precluded using the code in Samba. Their choice, their code. >It is also successful because the price is right, the support is >good and most of the bugs have been shaken out. And why do you think that happened ? Do you think community owner ship via the GPL might have had something to do with it ? >It would almost certainly be just as successful under a BSD-ish >or other free/open source license. Do you think MS-Windows is >successful because of it's license or in spite of it? I disagree. See my comments to Brett Glass (a BSD "fanatic" if ever there was one) on the last Open Source infoworld forum for details on how any other license than the GPL would have derailed Samba early on. Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 09 Sep 1998 00:36:36 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Sep 1998 22:36:39 GMT David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu) writes: > So why aren't the GNU/Linux weenies cutting on X11? Pretty much a > BSD-style copyright. Yep, some commercial companies added extensions > that they won't release to the public in source form. > > Yep, X11 is pretty successful software too. And it didn't need a GNU > license to "protect" it's development from those nasty commercial > companies. > > Yep, we are all still using X11 on our open source (non-TM) boxes. I'm > not running the sam X11 with DSP or NeWS I run on my Sparcs -- so what! You are not running the newest release of X11, X11 R6.4 on your open source box. That is because no open source distributor is allowed to put the newest source of X11 on a CD sold for profit. The X/Open Group has decided that they'll take the source to which a lot of people have contributed under the BSD copyright, and only release versions not to be sold to anybody in future. Which is one of the reasons GNU/Linux and quite a few other weenies are not too pleased by now about the original BSD-style copyright of X11. If you are not interested in the newest official branch of X, however, you can still get free derivatives of the R6.3 codes from other sources, such as XFree86. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 8 Sep 1998 20:59:56 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) In comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: > Not a *requirement*, no, but (IMHO) the GPL helped Samba > greatly in this regard. As Samba is (and always will be) > GPL you'll have to run another experiment with a BSD licensed > SMB server to prove your case, I'm afraid :-). So why aren't the GNU/Linux weenies cutting on X11? Pretty much a BSD-style copyright. Yep, some commercial companies added extensions that they won't release to the public in source form. Yep, X11 is pretty successful software too. And it didn't need a GNU license to "protect" it's development from those nasty commercial companies. Yep, we are all still using X11 on our open source (non-TM) boxes. I'm not running the sam X11 with DSP or NeWS I run on my Sparcs -- so what! -- -- David (deobrien@ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
From: mtm@blackbird.c2d.fedex.com (Mike T. Miller) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 8 Sep 1998 20:38:15 GMT Organization: Federal Express Message-ID: <6t44jn$71p1@is1.network.fedex.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:31:59 +0100, Adrian Jackson <adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: >Peter Smith wrote: >> <spanish inquisition> > >> 3 A's (Amiga, Atari and Apple). > >> And Acorn. > >> 4 As - Amiga, Atari and Apple. > >> <spanish> > >Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. > ><life TYPE = "Brian"> >Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what >computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for >us? > >Well, there's Amstrads. ></life> > >Adrian Let's not forget their venerable grandfather, the Altair. mike
From: paul@elastic.avid.com (Paul Miller) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 8 Sep 1998 21:16:40 GMT Organization: AVID Technology, Inc. Tewksbury, MA Message-ID: <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> References: <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: >Won't happen. BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, >namely: it's all written in C++. That excreble language has killed more >projects than I care to imagine. It's also made at least several projects I'm aware of possible at all. However, unless it has a good component object model an OS is no place for C++. -- Paul T. Miller | paul@elastic.avid.com Principal Engineer | Opinions expressed here are my own. Avid Technology, Inc. - Graphics and Effects Software Group
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <p5zpc9mjus.fsf@baynetworks.com> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 09 Sep 1998 22:30:14 +0200 Message-ID: <86d895ghbd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > %% Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > > You're right, I misunderstood David's message. Sorry about that. > > ee> The above rebuild an ENTIRE FreeBSD system. Not just the kernel > ee> (that's the config/make/make install part), but the entire system. > > Cool. Including the C compiler, linker, ar, etc.? X? What exactly do > you consider the "entire system"? I've got a feeling the "entire > system" to FreeBSD folks and the "entire system" to Linux folks are > _wildly_ different animals :). The entire 'base system'. This include (but is not limited to) make, the C compiler, the linker, ar, sh/csh, perl, vi, telnet, inetd, etc - everything that is common to all FreeBSD systems. You can get a fairly complete listing by doing find /usr/src/{bin,sbin,usr.bin,usr.sbin,libexec,games,share,gnu/usr.bin,gnu/usr.sbin,gnu/libexec} -type d \! -name CVS - but this exclude the libraries, of course. The above comes out to 1085 re-built directories (though that number is likely a little high - there are a few sub-directories that doesn't include commands, just regression tests). The number of directories correspond to somewhere quite a bit above 600 commands (I found 589 by another estimation method that I know produce way too low numbers). It does not include a re-build of X11 - if you want to re-build X11, you have to do 'cd /usr/ports/x11/XFree86 && make package'. This will fetch the sources and re-build the XFree86 package from source. If you want to do this for all your installed packages, you'll have to use a small shell-script to select which to rebuild to get just yours. > ee> FreeBSD normally isn't a binary distribution, it is a source > ee> distribution. > > Why is that better or more useful than having both source _and_ prebuilt > binaries, as Linux does? FreeBSD has both source and pre-built binaries - it just has a reproducable way of generating those binaries. > All sources that were used to build a Linux distribution are available. > Since many of them are GPL'd, they have to be (to bring this back around > ... :). All the sources are AFAIK not available in an automatically rebuildable form. > ee> I still consider David's post a fairly cheap snipe in a licensing > ee> discussing - it is not related to licensing, just to OS quality (go > ee> discuss with your local professional OS engineer what he thinks of an > ee> OS build that is not reproducible - I'd recommend getting one that has > ee> worked on more than one OS, though ;-) > > I disbelieve your assertions that Linux distributions are not reliably > reproducible. I'm sure some aren't, but the major ones are--at least to > the same level as a FreeBSD system. Not as simply done, certainly. But > still reproducible. 'The same level as a FreeBSD system' is byte-by-byte equal builds. FreeBSD's "make release" is through a 3-level bootstrap, the latter parts of it in a chrooted space, from a dated/tagged CVS-tree. There are other parts of the FreeBSD build process that could be better, but the basic reproducability of a release is there. "Hardened Linux" talked about having to modify some of the basic Red Hat packages before they even would build (on Bugtraq, couple of weeks ago). That is _not_ a reproducable build. > Yes, I _HAVE_ rebuilt major components of my Linux system, such as cron, > termcap, glibc, the compiler, binutils, fileutils, shellutils, shell, > etc. in addition to the kernel, both from "standard" GNU packages and > from SRPMS. Have you rebuilt _all_ your components (those you define as your base system - ie, all you have installed) from source, without any modifications - twice, and gotten the same binaries? With a formal procedure that can do this each and every time? If you haven't, then you've not demonstrated it is reproducable. (And you can always claim "It is reproducable - just do exactly the same as the original people did when compiling", but this is not reproducible unless they kept the formal log, including computer configurations). Eivind.
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Sep 1998 17:06:46 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> In article <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com>, Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: >What if the group that owns/controls FreeBSD decided that all future >versions would no longer be released under the BSD license, but instead >under a license where they couldn't be distributed in any for-profit >manner (including slapping an FTP archive onto a CD) without paying >royalties? The rest of the world is still free to continue work on the free version just as they would be if the group simply loses interest and quits. If there is demand for an additional non-free version why shouldn't there be one? >This is essentially what happened to X. And it will be interesting to see both how the rest of the world picks up the free version and how a funded version will develop. I don't see either branch losing anything - more likely both will gain. I think it is much stranger when two sets of code claiming to be free can't share each other's work, but even that doesn't seem to be a disaster. >Yes, yes, sure, "someone" could simply take the last BSD-based version >and create their own "ReallyFreeBSD" (they couldn't call it "FreeBSD" >anymore, of course), just as XFree86 has done with X11R6.3 code. > >But still, that would kinda suck, don't you think? No, not nearly as much as if the commercial flavor of the work had to start from scratch and both sides had to deal with the interoperability problems. Imagine if every OS vendor had to start from scratch writing a mailer, or the TCP stack itself as they likely would have without the available unrestricted code. We'd be decades behind in making email actually work. If your imagination isn't that good, try making an NFS mount between Linux and Solaris, then while you copy some files across you will have plenty of time to compose a thoughtful response about how nice it is when everyone re-writes from scratch... The samba people may think this doesn't matter but perhaps it's only important for them to interoperate with clients from one company. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: cbbrowne@news.hex.net (Christopher Browne) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Sep 1998 01:18:54 GMT Organization: Hex.Net Superhighway, DFW Metroplex 817-329-3182 Message-ID: <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> On 8 Sep 1998 20:59:56 GMT, David O'Brien <> wrote: >In comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >> Not a *requirement*, no, but (IMHO) the GPL helped Samba >> greatly in this regard. As Samba is (and always will be) >> GPL you'll have to run another experiment with a BSD licensed >> SMB server to prove your case, I'm afraid :-). > >So why aren't the GNU/Linux weenies cutting on X11? Pretty much a >BSD-style copyright. Yep, some commercial companies added extensions >that they won't release to the public in source form. Actually, there are a whole *pile* of companies selling X11 variants. Furthermore, there are a number of commercial variants of XFree86, for which the non-cognoscenti would assume "Oh, it's free, there can't be anyone selling it..." >Yep, X11 is pretty successful software too. And it didn't need a GNU >license to "protect" it's development from those nasty commercial >companies. You might want to take a look at the <ULink URL="http://www.xfree86.org/news/parar-980407.html"> XFree86 Position Statement on X11R6.4 </ULink> They still aren't arguing that they should use the GPL, but as of X11R6.4, things have changed. X11R6.4 isn't "Open Source (tm)" as was X11R6.3. Things that have the "GPL virus" are forced to "stay free." Things with the "BSD virus" can be "privatized," and while it hasn't happened with NetBSD, OpenBSD, or FreeBSD, something of the sort *has* happened to X11R6.4. I'd suggest that the "X experience" of the last year has shown that has shown that you have to think carefully when setting up licenses, and (more importantly) you can't *depend* on enterprises to keep releasing versions for free. This isn't an argument for GPLing everything under the sun; it *is* an argument for making sure that the organizations that stand behind "free stuff" are indeed standing behind its continuing freedom. The Open Group decidedly does *not* do so with respect to its intellectual properties... -- "I once went to a shrink. He told me to speak freely. I did. The damn fool tried to charge me $90 an hour." -- jimjr@qis.net (Jim Moore Jr) cbbrowne@hex.net- <http//www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/xwindows.html>
From: Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 22:34:03 +0000 Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> <6smrqo$gmu$1@flea.best.net> <35F1013E.1CFBAE39@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit terry wrote: > > Matt Dillon wrote: > ] I, for one, am rooting for Linux to beat Windows' ass. And > ] I'll be there, running all those apps on my FreeBSD box :-) > > Me, too. 8-). Start by getting Microsoft to port Office98. > Apple proved that they could be bought... "We've established > what you are, ma'am; now we're just halling over price". 8-). And I'll be running them on my NetBSD box. But not if they're Microsoft Monstrosities. Emacs and Netscape/Mozilla are big enough, I don't need to add Word 97 to my list of bloated apps. You don't want Office98. If you want a disaster like that, try Corel WordPerfect Suite 8. It's as close to a clone of Office 9[78] as you'll ever want. And, there's a Linux port of version 7 already. As far as I can tell, there's a port of version 8 in the works. The academic price for Version 7 was only $40 Canadian. -- Jonathan Fuerth: <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~jhfuerth CompSci Undergrad at University of Waterloo
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 01:24:16 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2vhmw3m5b.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> <6smrqo$gmu$1@flea.best.net> <35F1013E.1CFBAE39@spam.me> <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1998 23:24:17 GMT Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> writes: > terry wrote: > > > > Matt Dillon wrote: > > ] I, for one, am rooting for Linux to beat Windows' ass. And > > ] I'll be there, running all those apps on my FreeBSD box :-) > > > > Me, too. 8-). Start by getting Microsoft to port Office98. > > Apple proved that they could be bought... "We've established > > what you are, ma'am; now we're just halling over price". 8-). > > And I'll be running them on my NetBSD box. But not if they're Microsoft > Monstrosities. Emacs and Netscape/Mozilla are big enough, I don't need > to add Word 97 to my list of bloated apps. To be fair, Emacs is getting effectively smaller all the time. As memory prices drop, Emacs stabilizes his memory consumption to what is reasonable for its functionality. At least on my Linux system, where it is compiled using glibc, deleting buffers by now pretty always reclaims the memory to the system. Of course this might be partly due to the distasteful way large allocations are done by glibc (something like an exclusive memory map on /dev/zero), which manages to give back even noncontinuous deallocations to the system. There was a time when Word users scoffed at the performance and unpredictable memory hog Emacs was. That time is over, by golly. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Sep 1998 05:17:59 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >> So why aren't the GNU/Linux weenies cutting on X11? Pretty much a >> BSD-style copyright. Yep, some commercial companies added extensions >> that they won't release to the public in source form. > You are not running the newest release of X11, X11 R6.4 on your open > source box. That is because no open source distributor is allowed to > put the newest source of X11 on a CD sold for profit. What is wrong with this??? Don't the GPL-license people see any problem in people spending their time and $$ and then others making $$$ from their labors?? Isn't this one of the big arguments made in this thread about the BSD-style license being so bad? So what, The Open Group wants their part of the pie too. What is so wrong with that? As an individual I'm still allowed to download the source, read the source, and run it on my own machine. It is just that I can't make $$ from it. (you know, this keeps sounding like GPL stuff..) Also, some don't like Sun keeping Java contained. Again, so what. I have a personal, non-commercial license for the past few JDK versions. I'm allowed to release diffs necessary to get it running on my platform. I'm happy, Sun is happy. Those that want to take Sun's work and make easy $$, aren't. But then again, isn't this the argument people keep giving against the BSD-style copyright. > The X/Open Group has decided that they'll take the source to which a > lot of people have contributed under the BSD copyright, and only > release versions not to be sold to anybody in future. From the XFree86 web site: "This is because a license fee must now be paid by those who generate revenue from distributing their SI or code derived from it. TOG has stated that the X11 standards will, however, remain "open"." Like I said above, so what. Maybe the Open Group will spend some top dollars and add some new features and really good ideas. Then the free software community will just copy the functionality. Lesstif is a good example. W/o the ability to make money on it, Motif wouldn't have come about. With the number of programmers that would rather program to Motif than to X11 toolkits, it must have contributed something to the software development community. -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
From: David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Sep 1998 05:23:39 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@news.hex.net> wrote: > Things that have the "GPL virus" are forced to "stay free." Things with > the "BSD virus" can be "privatized," and while it hasn't happened with > NetBSD, OpenBSD, or FreeBSD, something of the sort *has* happened to > X11R6.4. That's ok. The Whistle InterJet is based on FreeBSD 3.0. Who knows, they may become more successful than the FreeBSD we know. They may make all kinds of enhancements that make their products OS much nicer/better/faster/featureful than FreeBSD. Who cares??? I still have FreeBSD to use, run, and read the source code. We are not all guaranteed to be able to have the same as our brother. Just because someone has something, doesn't mean you have a right to have it too. What is wrong with just as good alternatives?? Isn't this what Linux weenies keep telling corporate MIS staff? -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
From: David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 9 Sep 1998 05:28:44 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) On a side note, I've been wondering this for quite a while. How many of the Linux people that clamor for open source have actually read the source? How many have built their OS from the sources? I have yet to personally know a Linux user that has: cd /usr/src make world cd /sys/<arch>/conf config KERNEL make install reboot How would one even do this with Linux? (and which distribution) -- -- David (deobrien@ucdavis.edu -or- obrien@FreeBSD.org)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz04qJ.1t2@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:32:42 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu) writes: >Yep, X11 is pretty successful software too. And it didn't need a GNU >license to "protect" it's development from those nasty commercial >companies. Oh, in that case would you tell me where I could download the source to the proprietary X/NeWS server that Sun produced ? As it didn't need a GPL license I'm sure Sun did the right thing and released the source back to the BSD licensed community - didn't they ? And what about all those proprietary SGI X servers ? I'm sure SGI released the source back, after all, as you BSD license fans always say, it wouldn't help them not to. Oh - you mean *another* company didn't follow your advice ? And now that X is firmly held by X/Open, I'm sure that they'll want to follow the advice of the BSD license and share generously with the people who helped add code to X. Oh - dear..... Hmmmmm. Seems to me a stronger license may be needed. Wonder what *that* could be ? :-) :-). Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz04yH.2Ju@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:37:29 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> writes: >That's ok. The Whistle InterJet is based on FreeBSD 3.0. Who knows, >they may become more successful than the FreeBSD we know. They may make >all kinds of enhancements that make their products OS much >nicer/better/faster/featureful than FreeBSD. Who cares??? I still have >FreeBSD to use, run, and read the source code. Yes. And guess which SMB server the Whistle InterJet runs ? Hint - it isn't under the BSD license... Whistle play fair with Open Source software (disclaimer, I used to work for them and consider them a model Open Source based company). If it's BSD license they contribute back based on that (but they don't *have* to). If it's GPL license they make all changes available based on the GPL license - but in this case they do have to. Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 09 Sep 1998 02:15:02 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1998 06:15:05 GMT %% David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> writes: do> That's ok. The Whistle InterJet is based on FreeBSD 3.0. Who do> knows, they may become more successful than the FreeBSD we know. do> They may make all kinds of enhancements that make their products do> OS much nicer/better/faster/featureful than FreeBSD. Who cares??? do> I still have FreeBSD to use, run, and read the source code. What if the group that owns/controls FreeBSD decided that all future versions would no longer be released under the BSD license, but instead under a license where they couldn't be distributed in any for-profit manner (including slapping an FTP archive onto a CD) without paying royalties? This is essentially what happened to X. Yes, yes, sure, "someone" could simply take the last BSD-based version and create their own "ReallyFreeBSD" (they couldn't call it "FreeBSD" anymore, of course), just as XFree86 has done with X11R6.3 code. But still, that would kinda suck, don't you think? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 09 Sep 1998 02:38:23 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1998 06:38:25 GMT %% David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu> writes: do> On a side note, I've been wondering this for quite a while. On the side of what? I can't see a single iota of relevance to this post. do> How many of the Linux people that clamor for open source have actually do> read the source? Read the source to what? The Linux kernel? Probably not too many (percentage-wise). The source to some Open Source code they get on a Linux system? Probably the vast majority of the ones who think they might know what they're looking at. Uh... so what? do> How many have built their OS from the sources? I have yet to do> personally know a Linux user that has: do> cd /usr/src do> make world do> cd /sys/<arch>/conf do> config KERNEL do> make install do> reboot You obviously don't personally know hardly any Linux users. _Many_ people getting Linux will rebuild the kernel (at least those who know what a kernel is ;). Pre-built kernels that come with distributions are always chock full of hardware support you don't want or need, and that can slow down your boot or even mess up as it probes for all that non-existent hardware. do> How would one even do this with Linux? (and which distribution) I personally use "make xconfig; make zImage" or similar to rebuild the Linux kernel from scratch (it's been a few months--I'm not somewhat who cares about having a "cutting edge" kernel). It doesn't matter which distribution: the Linux kernel is the Linux kernel, and the contents of the source directory and commands used to build it are always the same (well, I suppose some distributions might include odd or non-standard or even non-free hardware drivers, but the way you build it is still always the same). Again, is there a remotely relevant point behind your somewhat condescending post? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 09 Sep 1998 09:12:59 +0200 Message-ID: <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > %% David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu> writes: > do> How many have built their OS from the sources? I have yet to > do> personally know a Linux user that has: > > do> cd /usr/src > do> make world > do> cd /sys/<arch>/conf > do> config KERNEL > do> make install > do> reboot > > You obviously don't personally know hardly any Linux users. _Many_ > people getting Linux will rebuild the kernel (at least those who know > what a kernel is ;). Pre-built kernels that come with distributions are > always chock full of hardware support you don't want or need, and that > can slow down your boot or even mess up as it probes for all that > non-existent hardware. You obviously don't know the build-process that David is talking about. The above rebuild an ENTIRE FreeBSD system. Not just the kernel (that's the config/make/make install part), but the entire system. FreeBSD normally isn't a binary distribution, it is a source distribution. Our utilities are (mostly) for distributing sources, not binaries. This is a signficant difference from the Linux distributions, which are mostly binary distributions (and cannot reliably be re-built from sources). I still consider David's post a fairly cheap snipe in a licensing discussing - it is not related to licensing, just to OS quality (go discuss with your local professional OS engineer what he thinks of an OS build that is not reproducible - I'd recommend getting one that has worked on more than one OS, though ;-) Eivind.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT and CD writing ? References: <6t0b9s$foa$1@orthanc.reference.com> From: sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) Message-ID: <35f63862.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> Date: 9 Sep 98 08:12:18 GMT c_ismora@hotmail.com wrote: >Hello, > >I would like to know if someone here has any experience of using a CD >writer with a black NeXT machine ? > >I am planning to buy a CD writer but I have been told that a >68040 NeXT should not be powerful enough to deal with something >as resource intensive as CD burning (BTW, why >is it so much resource consuming ? I'm not expert but I see The trick is to constantly burn the Image to the CD. If many Apps are using a not too fast HD it may slow down the transfer to the burner that it ran out of bytes to write .... >this as no more than a bunch of IOs...) > >Is there something about this in a FAQ ? >If someone did it, I would be interested in knowing the drive >model and the software used. Software: mkisofs from http://www.this.net/~frank/ and AerePerennius.app from Peaks or Peanuts. I had used this on a 25MHz station (1x speed) without problems. But remember to Quit such nice Progs like Backspace.app or some Backup-solution that can start disk-intensive processes during burning. Hardware: On our Intel we use a SONY CDU926S that works quite fine if you burn at 1x. AerePerenius has got a bug (cannot eject the CD after burning) therefore I would recommend to use the newest beta-version (as I do) from the ftp-site isolde.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de. Instruction to burn DATA: 1) ./mkisofs -V VOLNAME -a -o //path/to/rawfile -R -l -L -r //path/to/dir 2) if you want to follow links add a -f 3) for the rawfile: do not use the ending .cdr, cause it will be interpreted as a sound-track. 3.5) kill all resource-consumpting processes 4) Drag&Drop the rawfile to AerePerenius-Window 5) check the Inspector, select the speed (1x very recommend) 6) press burn and do not too much on your machine during the burning-process 7) The resulting CD works at least under NeXTstep 3.3, Win95, Dos, MacOS 8, Solaris 2.5.1. greets Sven -- Sven Droll __ ______________________________________________________/ / ______ __ sdroll@mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de / /_/ ___/ please remove the NOSPM from my reply-address /_ _/ _/ =====\_/======= LOGOUT FASCISM! ___________________________________________________________________ NeXT-mail or MIME welcome ;-)
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 09 Sep 1998 10:12:36 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1998 08:12:38 GMT David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> writes: > As an individual I'm still allowed to download the source, read the > source, and run it on my own machine. It is just that I can't make $$ > from it. (you know, this keeps sounding like GPL stuff..) Then you have not understood the GPL one bit. You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). That's why Linux distributors are making a buck, thus spreading the use of GPLed software. They are not allowed to do this with X11 since they would not be allowed to make revenue on that. Little point of doing business if you are not allowed to take any money. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Sep 1998 22:44:57 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t7hvp$2tt$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz1M6G.H8n@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEz1M6G.H8n@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >Your complaint seems to be that people who want to use the >Samba code in non-GPL licensed product can't. Well that's >just tough - that's *exactly* what the license is designed >to do - whether it be people who want to use it in proprietary >code or people who want to use it in BSD licensed code. My complaint is that interoperability is hindered by the fact that people who have the right to obtain and use this code in its native form are not allowed to obtain and use this same code in combination with certain other code. >Why aren't you complaining that Microsoft won't let you >use their code for an SMB server ? After all, they *are* >the reference implementation ! As far as I know Microsoft has never refused to let me use their SMB server code. In fact I have many instances of it running now and used the AT&T licensed version under unix long before samba was workable. It wasn't free but they didn't prevent it from being used. >It's because their license doesn't allow it. Neither does >ours. Complaining about it doesn't help and we're not going >to change it as that would be a betrayal to all the people >who've donated code to Samba over the years, on the understanding >it would be under the GPL. Perhaps it will help prevent people from adding unnecessary restrictions to code that they want to be used freely in the future. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:58:25 +0000 Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <35F74051.D14D634F@uwaterloo.ca> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank Crary wrote: > I don't like it, but I may want to run Word on a FreeBSD > or other Unix machine. My users and I are getting Word > documents attached to email. This is happening more > often as time goes on. This is a problem, since there True enough. The lack of a globally-accepted general word processor exchange file format annoys me on a regular basis. I suppose RTF is a start, but I don't know of any UNIX RTF <-> LaTeX (or similar) conversion tools. There's just too much going on inside those word processor files. As a matter of fact, if you open a Word 97 document in Word 6, it break, and you get junk. Go figure. > printable format (converting Word to an easily editable > format is probably too much to ask for.) Does anyone > know of any UNIX software along these lines? If it > is available and licensing allows it, I would be willing > to turn this into an addition to the FreeBSD ports > collection. Well, you can't add it to the ports collection, but as I mentioned in my original post (ok, I admit it was in the wrong thread...) Corel WordPerfect Suite 8 will be available for Linux, meaning that us *BSD people can run it. And 7 is already on the market, for several UNIXes. I know for a fact that Suite 8 is capable of loading and saving documents in Word 6 and Word 97 formats. I can't tell you how good the conversion is, but WP8 looks like a Word97 clone. I think the feature sets mostly overlap. It's still bloatware, and commercial (you'll have to deal with licensing and concurrent invocation limitations).. but it's not Microsoft, which means a lot to me. :) -- Jonathan Fuerth: <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~jhfuerth CompSci Undergrad at University of Waterloo
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Sep 1998 23:03:50 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >Not a *requirement*, no, but (IMHO) the GPL helped Samba >greatly in this regard. As Samba is (and always will be) >GPL you'll have to run another experiment with a BSD licensed >SMB server to prove your case, I'm afraid :-). Samba is a special case because it rides on the coattails of the commerical distribution of an enormously popular client. The BSD TCP stack is a clear enough demonstration for me of how interoperability (and the lives of people who have to make things work) is enhanced by unrestricted reference code. >particularly my comment and the comments under it >starting at : > >http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?70286 Thanks. It is interesting, but not enough to change my opinion that in spite of what software companies would have you believe, great software requires fanatical support and you just have to accept whatever other fanaticism comes with the personalities involved. But you don't have to like it... Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 09 Sep 1998 10:38:51 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5zpc9mjus.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1998 14:38:54 GMT %% Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: You're right, I misunderstood David's message. Sorry about that. ee> The above rebuild an ENTIRE FreeBSD system. Not just the kernel ee> (that's the config/make/make install part), but the entire system. Cool. Including the C compiler, linker, ar, etc.? X? What exactly do you consider the "entire system"? I've got a feeling the "entire system" to FreeBSD folks and the "entire system" to Linux folks are _wildly_ different animals :). ee> FreeBSD normally isn't a binary distribution, it is a source ee> distribution. Why is that better or more useful than having both source _and_ prebuilt binaries, as Linux does? All sources that were used to build a Linux distribution are available. Since many of them are GPL'd, they have to be (to bring this back around ... :). ee> Our utilities are (mostly) for distributing sources, not binaries. ee> This is a signficant difference from the Linux distributions, ee> which are mostly binary distributions (and cannot reliably be ee> re-built from sources). ee> I still consider David's post a fairly cheap snipe in a licensing ee> discussing - it is not related to licensing, just to OS quality (go ee> discuss with your local professional OS engineer what he thinks of an ee> OS build that is not reproducible - I'd recommend getting one that has ee> worked on more than one OS, though ;-) I disbelieve your assertions that Linux distributions are not reliably reproducible. I'm sure some aren't, but the major ones are--at least to the same level as a FreeBSD system. Not as simply done, certainly. But still reproducible. Yes, I _HAVE_ rebuilt major components of my Linux system, such as cron, termcap, glibc, the compiler, binutils, fileutils, shellutils, shell, etc. in addition to the kernel, both from "standard" GNU packages and from SRPMS. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 10 Sep 1998 02:12:31 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca>, Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >And I'll be running them on my NetBSD box. But not if they're Microsoft >Monstrosities. Emacs and Netscape/Mozilla are big enough, I don't need >to add Word 97 to my list of bloated apps. I don't like it, but I may want to run Word on a FreeBSD or other Unix machine. My users and I are getting Word documents attached to email. This is happening more often as time goes on. This is a problem, since there are no UNIX versions of Word (to the best of my knowledge) and I really don't want to deal with bloatware. Ideally, I'd like something to convert Word files to postscript, dvi, or some other viewable and printable format (converting Word to an easily editable format is probably too much to ask for.) Does anyone know of any UNIX software along these lines? If it is available and licensing allows it, I would be willing to turn this into an addition to the FreeBSD ports collection. Frank Crary CU Boulder
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz1wsK.A7D@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz1M6G.H8n@netcom.com> <6t7hvp$2tt$1@Mercury.mcs.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:36:20 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >>It's because their license doesn't allow it. Neither does >>ours. Complaining about it doesn't help and we're not going >>to change it as that would be a betrayal to all the people >>who've donated code to Samba over the years, on the understanding >>it would be under the GPL. >Perhaps it will help prevent people from adding unnecessary >restrictions to code that they want to be used freely in the >future. Well this is (IMHO) the crux of the matter. You may be assuming that I want my code to be used freely in the future. If by "freely" you mean "without any requirements to show me the changes you made" than I explicitly do *not* want my code to be available under that definition. This is one of the reasons I really like the "Open Source" name - as it gets away from the confusions of "free". The GPL (IMHO) is not free. It is the definition of a community. I choose to live and share my code within that community, but not outside it. Regards, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:49:53 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F77691.446B9B3D@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul D. Smith wrote: ] What if the group that owns/controls FreeBSD decided that all ] future versions would no longer be released under the BSD license, ] but instead under a license where they couldn't be distributed ] in any for-profit manner (including slapping an FTP archive onto ] a CD) without paying royalties? Then we "fire" their ass, and "hire" a new core team, and the 1000's of developers work on the new code, as if nothing had changed. Unlike some OS developement, FreeBSD developers typically mirror the entire source repository. Let me say that again, and highlight the significant part: FreeBSD developers typically mirror the entire source >*repository*<. Not just a copy of the tree, but a copy of the tree with all previous copies of the tree and all commit comments, intact. All versions of FreeBSD, from the day 2.0 was started, based on the 4.4BSD-Lite code, can be built, as it would have been built at *any* given second in its history by *any* of those thousands of developers. Compare and contrast this with Microsofts ability to recreate a particular snapshot (or even release version) of NT from source code (for example). ] This is essentially what happened to X. And what happened to CMU TCP (hello, FTP software) and what happened to the Stanford University Network Computer (hello, Sun Microsystems) and what happened to the city of Orem's data entry program built on contract at BYU (hello, WordPerfect), and what happened with the DARPA nuclear-hardened information infrastructure (hello, TCP/IP, hello Cicso, hello Internet). For every example of where this was bad, I can give you dozens of where it was good. You want to build a SUN 2? Go ahead; the circuit board designs are available from the Stanford Library. You want to build a TCP/IP stack for DOS? Go ahead; the CMU TCP/IP is still available. What's missing is someone motivated to keep up with the commercial interest. Basically, this requires one thing: critical mass. Once you have critical mass in an open source software project, it doesn't matter who tries to take it commercial, or how hard they tried. Any open source software that has been taken commercial is the result of no one caring enough to maintain the publically available sources. More power to the commercial people, if they are willing to maintain open source for a fee, and the public at large is too apathetic to maintain the open source without fee. Apathy should be punished, and this is the most fitting punishment I can think to impose. ] Yes, yes, sure, "someone" could simply take the last BSD-based ] version and create their own "ReallyFreeBSD" (they couldn't ] call it "FreeBSD" anymore, of course), just as XFree86 has ] done with X11R6.3 code. ] ] But still, that would kinda suck, don't you think? It would suck to lose the name (just as it sucked to lose "386BSD" and "SMB Server", at the time those were lost). The correct thing to do to prevent this is to establish an irrevokable trust to hold the trademark, forcing the non-public developement effort to change their name instead. 8-). Just because you can come up with problems doesn't mean that others can't come up with soloutions. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:33:34 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kastrup wrote: ] You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on ] it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). No, you can't: | 1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's | source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you | conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an | appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep | intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the | absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the | Program a copy of this License along with the Program. | | You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a | copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in | exchange for a fee. In other words, you can slap a small fee for the act of transferring a copy, and you may slap a large fee on the act of transferring warrantee protection. You can do the same (warranty) fee with the X11R6.4 code, if you want. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 11:07:41 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2ogsoe3oi.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Sep 1998 09:07:43 GMT terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > David Kastrup wrote: > ] You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on > ] it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). > > No, you can't: > [...] > | You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a > | copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in > | exchange for a fee. > > In other words, you can slap a small fee for the act of > transferring a copy, It says nothing about the size of the fee. You can demand anything you want, just as I said. The passage you quote just clarifies that all you can charge for is the access to the copy. You do not sell any rights to the software. Contrast this with the passage lower which explains what you can charge for delivering the source code to GPLed software *after* you have already given people the binary. In *that* case you are not allowed to demand more than copying charges. That's why almost everybody delivers source with the binaries in the first place. You can't make any money with delivering the source on demand after delivering the binaries, so people avoid that construct. > and you may slap a large fee on the > act of transferring warrantee protection. Again, no indication of the sizes of the charge are mentioned in here. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: Display trouble Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 20:57:21 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <35F6EBB1.6E79C61F@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <35F6510C.5C61156B@indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you tried "Config=Default" to the boot prompt this should boot with standard VGA 640x480, now you can use Configure.app to select a lower refresh rate. Brendan Rankin wrote: > > I have inadvertently set the display settings outside the scan range of > my video card. I am running Openstep 4.2/Mach on an Intel machine. When > bootup is complete, I get an OUT OF SCAN RANGE message on the monitor, > and cannot proceed any further. Can the display settings be altered > during the bootup phase (ie: by typing '?' at the beginning and entering > a config setting there? > > Prompt help would be appreciated. > > Brendan. > rankin@indigo.ie -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: Dom Mitchell <dom@phmit.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 11:12:10 +0100 Organization: Palmer & Harvey McLane Ltd. Sender: dom@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk Message-ID: <kg7lzcb7k5.fsf@voodoo.pandhm.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <jeremyEz04qJ.1t2@netcom.com> <35F77998.59E2B600@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > Also blame the GhostScipt people for not providing a GPL'ed > implementation of Display PostScript. Hasn't the work recently been done for Display Ghostscript? I know it's too late, but all the same... -- Dom Mitchell -- Palmer & Harvey McLane -- Unix Systems Administrator "Xerox studies suggest that most people print out electronic mail that is longer than half a page; paper use rises by 40 percent in offices that introduce E-mail." -- CCM
From: tethys@isengard.uk.ml.com (Tethys) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 10 Sep 1998 11:20:27 +0100 Organization: Merrill Lynch Message-ID: <6t895b$o5r$1@isengard.uk.ml.com> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> In article <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu>, Frank Crary <fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote: >I don't like it, but I may want to run Word on a FreeBSD or other >Unix machine. My users and I are getting Word documents attached to >email. This is happening more often as time goes on. This is a >problem, since there are no UNIX versions of Word (to the best of >my knowledge) and I really don't want to deal with bloatware. >Ideally, I'd like something to convert Word files to postscript, >dvi, or some other viewable and printable format (converting >Word to an easily editable format is probably too much to ask for.) >Does anyone know of any UNIX software along these lines? If it >is available and licensing allows it, I would be willing to turn >this into an addition to the FreeBSD ports collection. MSWordView will convert Word97 documents into HTML. It's not yet perfect, but it's pretty good and getting better all the time. http://www.gnu.org/~caolan/docs/MSWordView.html http://skynet.csn.ul.ie/~caolan/docs/MSWordView.html However, it only handles Word97 docs. For earlier versions of Word (which used a different file format), you'll need something else. word2x is a primitive attempt at word->text conversion for pre-Word97 files. It usually gives you most of the text in a, document but it's not very reliable, and it far from an ideal solution. Other than that, there are reports of Word2 (and even Word6) running to varying degrees under Wine (http://www.winehq.com), which should run fine under FreeBSD. Hope this helps. Tet -- ``Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils'' - General George Stark --------------------+--------------+---------------------------------------- tethys@ml.com | Micro$oft: | Linux, the choice of a GNU generation. tet@astradyne.co.uk | Just say no! | See http://www.uk.linux.org for details
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 10 Sep 1998 12:41:50 +0200 Message-ID: <867lzcgsgh.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) writes: > les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > > >In article <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com>, > >Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: > > >Samba is a special case because it rides on the coattails > >of the commerical distribution of an enormously popular > >client. The BSD TCP stack is a clear enough demonstration > >for me of how interoperability (and the lives of people who > >have to make things work) is enhanced by unrestricted reference > >code. > > I would disagree that Samba has to be a special > case. GCC has no commercial client driving it's > adoption, yet is enormously popular, as is Linux > itself. What? If you've never seen a commercial Unix or a commercial C compiler, I'll hereby inform you that they exist :-) The programs written using them can to a very large degree be considered as the 'commercial clients' that is discussed WRT Samba. > There is no *one* correct Open Source license. > Sometimes the GPL is best, sometimes BSD, and > sometimes something else altogether (Mozilla > or AbiSoft license for example). Aye! I'll drink to that. Eivind.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:00:07 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F778F7.15FB7483@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul D. Smith wrote: ] What earthly incentive would they have for writing a proprietary ] mailer rather than using a GPL'd version? Because CORBA and ActiveX technology for embedding applications are antithetical to the GPL, since you can't legally distribute GPL'ed code intended to be linked with non-GPL'ed code? Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6t7fek$428$9@hyperion.nitco.com> Control: cancel <6t7fek$428$9@hyperion.nitco.com> Date: 10 Sep 1998 03:05:36 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6t7fek$428$9@hyperion.nitco.com> Sender: hpklhtix@somethingfunny.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Liviu Ionescu" <ilg@Romania.no-spam.EU.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.gui,microsoft.public.java.sdk Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:20:00 +0300 Organization: EUnet Romania Message-ID: <6t8ckv$7g0$1@news.eunet.ro> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> Frank Crary wrote in message <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu>... >In article <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca>, >Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >>And I'll be running them on my NetBSD box. But not if they're Microsoft >>Monstrosities. Emacs and Netscape/Mozilla are big enough, I don't need >>to add Word 97 to my list of bloated apps. > >I don't like it, but I may want to run Word on a FreeBSD or other >Unix machine. maybe not a full version of Word/Excel is necessary. some simple DOC/XLS viewers might be enough. Microsoft has such a set of viewers. (If you spend a lot of time in front of a Windows screen and do not want to install a full Office kit these viewers are more than convenient). has anyone considered writing some Java applications/applets to view DOC/XLS files? regards, Liviu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:45:19 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >In article <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com>, >Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >Samba is a special case because it rides on the coattails >of the commerical distribution of an enormously popular >client. The BSD TCP stack is a clear enough demonstration >for me of how interoperability (and the lives of people who >have to make things work) is enhanced by unrestricted reference >code. I would disagree that Samba has to be a special case. GCC has no commercial client driving it's adoption, yet is enormously popular, as is Linux itself. >Thanks. It is interesting, but not enough to change my opinion >that in spite of what software companies would have you believe, >great software requires fanatical support and you just have to >accept whatever other fanaticism comes with the personalities involved. >But you don't have to like it... Well I hope that by "great software" you mean Samba :-). But I would disagree (cordially) with your definition of the people supporting it as fanatics. I have no problem personally with the BSD license, and have indeed released code in the past under it. What disturbs me is the "fanaticism" (if you don't mind the label :-) of some anti-GPL people, who are not content to let the authors of a piece of work choose their own licensing and distribution terms, but instead must claim that theirs (the BSD license in this case) is the "one true way". I must confess that after the discussions in the infoworld forum mentioned above, I have to consider Brett Glass to be one such, and I have no desire to ever debate licensing with him again. There is no *one* correct Open Source license. Sometimes the GPL is best, sometimes BSD, and sometimes something else altogether (Mozilla or AbiSoft license for example). But one thing should always apply - "they who own the code get to choose the license" (I say "own", not "write" here to include commercial companies who pay others to write their code for them). That's a basic right of programming (IMHO). Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: smooth@aloha.net (George) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:32:23 -0900 Organization: Hawaii OnLine - Honolulu, HI Distribution: world Message-ID: <smooth-ya02408000R1009980232230001@news> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487c3a0d36pvigay@interalpha.vogonpoetry.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980827163712.14319L-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <6s4h7j$84f$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com> <6s7cng$2ap$1@news5.ispnews.com> <6spp8b$bhf10@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <6spp8b$bhf10@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>, kfox@pt0204.pto.ford.com wrote: > Jeff Johnson <jajohnson@dmenet.com> writes: > > Paul Miller wrote in message <6s7280$3g6@handupme.avid.com>: > > > How many more years do you think it'll take them to "invent" resizable > > > dialogs? Especially resizeable dialog _buttons_. I bought a monitor the size of a football field to work better, yet I end up chasing little pesky dialog buttons of the size of an ant's left ball on it with the mouse. A big help when one is in a hurry, isn't it.. Whenever I need to click one of those @#$% buttons I routinely shoot a round of 4-5 mouseclicks into it to take it out. (Yee-hah! The fastest mouse of the Wild West... :)) George
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:07:04 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F76C88.41C67EA6@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <MPG.104dab45ce1632539898c4@news.idt.net> <m2ww7vg8j5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <86d89nq07z.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6s1bpg$8kg$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE58A9.446B9B3D@spam.me> <m2lno1mmxo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F10002.59E2B600@spam.me> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeremy Allison wrote: ] Wow Terry, I'm impressed. I've finally made it to your ] grade of "true fanatics", along with Richard. Thanks for ] the honor :-). Ha! You did that when you showed the "Wallace and Grommit" video "The Wrong Trousers", with the evil Penguin. 8-). ] We (the GPL fanatics) must be getting somewhere. 8-). ] I'm looking forward to a BSD licensed SMB server, ] available "any day now".... So was I, when I originally squawked to Andrew about getting him to post the code. Unfortunately, though I argued mightily, Stallman already had eaten his brain... 8-p. There's no reason to recreate it under BSD license because it's a strategic technology. You don't deploy SAMBA because the protocols and services it implements are good, you deploy it because you need to be Microsoft bug compatible to be able to play in a Microsoft-dominated market. Even you admit this about the protocols and services... in front of people, even. ;-). ] Oh I forgot. Everyone else writing SMB servers thinks they ] can get "competitive advantage" by not revealing source code ] so the first such licensed server would disapear into a ] proprietary product with proprietary enhancements pretty ] quickly. Hmmmm. Wonder why Samba's so successful then ? Because it works? ] BTW Terry, "I don't want the world, just your half" :-). Aha! Ah HA! So you ADMIT it! Before claiming my half, remember what Erma Bombeck said: "The Grass Is Always Greener Over The Septic Tank". 8-). Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:16:31 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F76EBF.167EB0E7@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kastrup wrote: ] You are not running the newest release of X11, X11 R6.4 on your open ] source box. That is because no open source distributor is allowed to ] put the newest source of X11 on a CD sold for profit. I thought the latest release of X11 came from the XFree86 group... ] Which is one of the reasons GNU/Linux and quite a few other weenies ] are not too pleased by now about the original BSD-style copyright of ] X11. If you are not interested in the newest official branch of X, ] however, you can still get free derivatives of the R6.3 codes from ] other sources, such as XFree86. Actually, we aren't pleased with MIT turning over developement of code produced under Project Athena, and funded by Digital on the express assumption that Digital would be able to sell derivatives of the resulting code (i.e., no UCB-style license, no Project Athena). X11 exists *because* the license encouraged corporate funding for its developement. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 01:10:37 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Sep 1998 05:10:40 GMT %% les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: lm> The rest of the world is still free to continue work on the free lm> version just as they would be if the group simply loses interest lm> and quits. If there is demand for an additional non-free version lm> why shouldn't there be one? Maybe it's just me, but it seems there's a difference between "an additional non-free version" and taking the primary reference version and making it non-free (and having most of the talent associated with the free version now working on the non-free version). >> This is essentially what happened to X. lm> And it will be interesting to see both how the rest of the world lm> picks up the free version and how a funded version will develop. lm> I don't see either branch losing anything - more likely both will lm> gain. You're right, it will be very interesting. I'm afraid I'm much more pessimistic than you about any gains for the XFree86 folks, though. Consider these points: 1) TOG can take any feature that the XFree team decides to add that they (TOG) might deem useful, and rip the exact code out of XFree and embed that into X11R6.x. Big bonus for them: all the free development of the 'Net is at their disposal. 2) As best as I understand it, XFree developers that want to implement a new feature that TOG introduces will have to infer its use and implementation from its behavior, since without a "clean-room" implementation they'd be in danger of infringing the X11 copyright. Since X11 never has shipped with much documentation (X11 has always been a Sample Implementation, after all) this could be quite time consuming and difficult. Not much of an advantage here for the XFree folks :( Just as an example, when will we see a version of XFree86 with Xinerama support? Doesn't look to be anywhere on the horizon, as far as I can tell. What about EVI support? Etc. 3) It seems to me that the XFree people are _already_ hard-pressed to keep the servers in working order: the number, variety, and complexity of hardware drivers supported by XFree dwarfs that of X11, and TOG has the people developing the hardware to write their drivers. XFree folks are _lucky_ if they get a moldy spec from the hardware company, much less access to the engineers developing the hardware. Much less get those engineers to do the work! All in all, I can see no downsides for TOG and no upsides for the XFree86 folks in this transaction. How do you figure XFree86 will gain? lm> No, not nearly as much as if the commercial flavor of the work had lm> to start from scratch and both sides had to deal with the lm> interoperability problems. Imagine if every OS vendor had to lm> start from scratch writing a mailer, or the TCP stack itself as lm> they likely would have without the available unrestricted code. lm> We'd be decades behind in making email actually work. What earthly incentive would they have for writing a proprietary mailer rather than using a GPL'd version? The TCP stack I can see being a problem (as I can the X libraries, for example). This has been beaten to death. Essentially, everyone is guessing what would (have) happen(ed). Just as there are examples of BSD code becoming successful and people being "good citizens" and donating most of their work back, there are examples of people taking BSD code and not donating important modifications back. And just as there are examples of people essentially rewriting GPL'd code so they could use it in a proprietary manner, so there are examples of people, faced with the choice of releasing everything under the GPL or writing it from scratch, deciding to release everything under the GPL. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: "Richard Payne" <payner at timken dot com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.gui,microsoft.public.java.sdk References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> <6t8ckv$7g0$1@news.eunet.ro> Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:41:45 -0400 Message-ID: <35f7c87a0000000a@ctnhnews.timken.com-MINC> I've started writing a basic word processor using Java and Swing....but I'm not familiar with the MS file formats. Anybody feel like writing the code to interpret those file formats?? (preferable under GPL or BSD style license). -- Rich Payne (Speaking for myself, not my employer) payner at timken dot com Liviu Ionescu wrote in message <6t8ckv$7g0$1@news.eunet.ro>... > >Frank Crary wrote in message <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu>... >>In article <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca>, >>Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >>>And I'll be running them on my NetBSD box. But not if they're Microsoft >>>Monstrosities. Emacs and Netscape/Mozilla are big enough, I don't need >>>to add Word 97 to my list of bloated apps. >> >>I don't like it, but I may want to run Word on a FreeBSD or other >>Unix machine. > >maybe not a full version of Word/Excel is necessary. some simple DOC/XLS >viewers might be enough. Microsoft has such a set of viewers. (If you spend >a lot of time in front of a Windows screen and do not want to install a full >Office kit these viewers are more than convenient). > >has anyone considered writing some Java applications/applets to view DOC/XLS >files? > > >regards, > >Liviu > > > >
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: timlee@netcom.com.DELETE-THIS.BIT (Timothy J. Lee) Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Message-ID: <timleeEz1vD0.Jov@netcom.com> Followup-To: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Sender: timlee@netcom12.netcom.com References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:05:23 GMT fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: |Ideally, I'd like something to convert Word files to postscript, |dvi, or some other viewable and printable format (converting |Word to an easily editable format is probably too much to ask for.) |Does anyone know of any UNIX software along these lines? MSWordView (MS Word 97 -> HTML) catdoc and word2x (for MS Word before 97 -> text or TeX) strings (view the text in the MS Word document) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Timothy J. Lee timlee@ Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. netcom.com No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Message-ID: <35F7D11F.3675F6EA@outhouse.home> From: Dan McGregor <dragon@outhouse.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:16:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:16:16 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada David O'Brien wrote: > > On a side note, I've been wondering this for quite a while. > How many of the Linux people that clamor for open source have actually > read the source? How many have built their OS from the sources? I > have yet to personally know a Linux user that has: > > cd /usr/src > make world > cd /sys/<arch>/conf > config KERNEL > make install > reboot > > How would one even do this with Linux? (and which distribution) I have modified and rebuilt my Linux system from sources. In linux (Debian at least), you first install the sources (tar xvfz sourcefile.tar.gz) then you switch to the directory of the source you want to build and type "debian/rules build;debian/rules binary". For the kernel you cd /usr/src/linux or cd /usr/src/kernel and type make config, make menuconfig, or make xconfig. Then make-kpkg kernel_image (This is a debian specific thing. Not a linux in general thing)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz1M6G.H8n@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:47:04 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >No, not nearly as much as if the commercial flavor of the work had to >start from scratch and both sides had to deal with the interoperability >problems. Imagine if every OS vendor had to start from scratch writing >a mailer, or the TCP stack itself as they likely would have without the >available unrestricted code. We'd be decades behind in making email actually >work. If your imagination isn't that good, try making an NFS mount >between Linux and Solaris, then while you copy some files across you >will have plenty of time to compose a thoughtful response about how nice >it is when everyone re-writes from scratch... The samba people may think >this doesn't matter but perhaps it's only important for them to interoperate >with clients from one company. Leslie, Samba has been modified to interoperate with as many different commercial SMB clients as exist - there just aren't that many. They include "Dave" from Thursby, Sharity, smbfs and of course all the different and colorful varients from 'our friends in Redmond'. These companies (except for the big one :-) have done things in such a way such that they'll be compatible with the GPL. For example when Thursby's client needed a Samba change they donated the code change to us for inclusion. And the author of Sharity has donated a large chunk of SSL-enabling code to Samba-2 to interoperate with the SSL code in sharity. Your complaint seems to be that people who want to use the Samba code in non-GPL licensed product can't. Well that's just tough - that's *exactly* what the license is designed to do - whether it be people who want to use it in proprietary code or people who want to use it in BSD licensed code. Why aren't you complaining that Microsoft won't let you use their code for an SMB server ? After all, they *are* the reference implementation ! It's because their license doesn't allow it. Neither does ours. Complaining about it doesn't help and we're not going to change it as that would be a betrayal to all the people who've donated code to Samba over the years, on the understanding it would be under the GPL. Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:55:45 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F777F1.794BDF32@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz1M6G.H8n@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeremy Allison wrote: ] Your complaint seems to be that people who want to use the ] Samba code in non-GPL licensed product can't. Actually, if Samba was under a BSD license, and it were enhanced (Windows 95/98 IFS driver Samba client which uses those enhancements, etc.), Microsoft would probably pick up the Samba code and fire a lot of engineers, just in terms of offloading their maintenance costs onto the free product (they'd still keep enough engineers to be able to control certain tactical aspects of the code -- they live by control). They would be stuupid not to, and Microsoft is *not* stupid. Stupid people don't make any money. ] Why aren't you complaining that Microsoft won't let you ] use their code for an SMB server ? After all, they *are* ] the reference implementation ! Because the code sucks? 8-). Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:02:48 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F77998.59E2B600@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <jeremyEz04qJ.1t2@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeremy Allison wrote: ] Oh, in that case would you tell me where I could download ] the source to the proprietary X/NeWS server that Sun produced ? ] ] As it didn't need a GPL license I'm sure Sun did the ] right thing and released the source back to the BSD ] licensed community - didn't they ? Yes, all the X11 specific code that didn't include the Display PostScript licensed from Adobe. Blame Adobe on this one. Also blame the GhostScipt people for not providing a GPL'ed implementation of Display PostScript. ] And what about all those proprietary SGI X servers ? ] I'm sure SGI released the source back, after all, as ] you BSD license fans always say, it wouldn't help them ] not to. ] ] Oh - you mean *another* company didn't follow your ] advice ? Blame Larry McVoy. He was at both Sun and SGI... 8-). Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:09:19 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F77B1F.1CFBAE39@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86ogt3oh87.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6seprq$nn9$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <35EE59D2.794BDF32@spam.me> <6smrqo$gmu$1@flea.best.net> <35F1013E.1CFBAE39@spam.me> <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca> <m2vhmw3m5b.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kastrup wrote: ] To be fair, Emacs is getting effectively smaller all the time. ] As memory prices drop, Emacs stabilizes his memory consumption ] to what is reasonable for its functionality. Har. And Lily Tomlin is this itty-bitty person, who sat in a normal sized rocking chair on Rowan & Martin's "Laugh-In"... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: galibert@pobox.com (Olivier Galibert) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 06:39:39 GMT Organization: Usenet Cabale Hysterique Message-ID: <slrn6vet1b.roi.galibert@renaissance.loria.fr> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me>, terry wrote: >David Kastrup wrote: >] You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on >] it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). > >No, you can't: > >| 1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's >| source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you >| conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an >| appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep >| intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the >| absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the >| Program a copy of this License along with the Program. >| >| You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a >| copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in >| exchange for a fee. > >In other words, you can slap a small fee for the act of >transferring a copy, and you may slap a large fee on the >act of transferring warrantee protection. Read harder. There is no such "small" or "large" word in the license text. You can put any arbitrary price tag for the act of transferring the copy. OG.
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 14:11:41 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t989d$doj$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> <slrn6vet1b.roi.galibert@renaissance.loria.fr> In article <slrn6vet1b.roi.galibert@renaissance.loria.fr>, Olivier Galibert <galibert@pobox.com> wrote: >>In other words, you can slap a small fee for the act of >>transferring a copy, and you may slap a large fee on the >>act of transferring warrantee protection. > >Read harder. There is no such "small" or "large" word in the license >text. You can put any arbitrary price tag for the act of transferring >the copy. The limit isn't explicit, but since you cannot impose any limits on further redistribution the limit is built in. If you charge more than the physical copy is worth and there is a market for it, your first customer can duplicate as many as he wants and undercut your price. How much are you willing to invest in a company with this as their business plan? Les Mikesell les@mcs.net
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> <6t9gt6$1qm$1@Mars.mcs.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:52:16 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >No argument there. But this does get very, very >messy when someone wants to contribute to an existing >work. It is often the last 10% of the code that >makes something useful but it may take 90% of the >work to complete it and shake out the bugs. Under >the GPL, though, the one who did the first little >bit of work takes away everyone else's choice (or >leaves only the choice to not release it). But this argument could be used just as well against the BSD license as well as the GPL. Once code is under the BSD license it is (as far as I know) not legal to put a modified version of that code under the GPL. I have contributed to BSD projects with code donations under the BSD license, because that's the license chosen by the original author(s). Going back to your original point, the reason I don't want to contribute the DOS deny mode code (I wrote) from Samba to NetATalk (which is under the BSD license) as I don't want that code ending up in a commercial product that is not itself under the GPL. It took a lot of time and effort to get it correct and I consider it very valuable. Unfortunately the NetATalk license doesn't give me the security I want that this code will not be used against my wishes. BTW: I'm glad we've stopped discussing the word "free" as I agree with Theo that GPL code is not "free" in the normally used sense of the word (how about "differently licensed" :-). One of the reasons I personally don't like the BSD license is that it makes it harder to maintain that competitive advantage in your code (hmmm. Isn't this what terry is always saying the GPL prevents ? :-). The GPL allows the competitive advantage to remain within the GPL-using community. Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: Karl Anderson <kra@pobox.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 10 Sep 1998 12:11:42 -0700 Organization: Chunk 666 World Domination Enterprises Sender: karl@dclxvi.foobar.net Message-ID: <m3btonixzl.fsf@dclxvi.foobar.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > %% David O'Brien <deobrien@ucdavis.edu> writes: > do> How many of the Linux people that clamor for open source have actually > do> read the source? What is more important is that _others_ can read the same source that I installed on my box. If there is crufty or hostile code there, it is because nobody qualified to find it has bothered to do so in the community that uses that code. If that code is proprietary, then everyone qualified & able to find these problems is paid by a company that doesn't want these problems found. -- Karl Anderson kra@pobox.com <URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kra/>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: Michael_Humphries-Dolnick.nospam@wdr.com (Michael Humphries-Dolnick) Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <1998Sep9.165135.22432@il.us.swissbank.com> Sender: root@il.us.swissbank.com (Operator) Organization: Swiss Bank Corporation CM&T Division References: <6t44jn$71p1@is1.network.fedex.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:51:35 GMT In article <6t44jn$71p1@is1.network.fedex.com> mtm@blackbird.c2d.fedex.com (Mike T. Miller) writes: > On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:31:59 +0100, Adrian Jackson <adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > >Peter Smith wrote: > >> <spanish inquisition> > > > >> 3 A's (Amiga, Atari and Apple). > > > >> And Acorn. > > > >> 4 As - Amiga, Atari and Apple. > > > >> <spanish> > > > >Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. > > > ><life TYPE = "Brian"> > >Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what > >computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for > >us? > > > >Well, there's Amstrads. > ></life> > > > >Adrian > > Let's not forget their venerable grandfather, the Altair. > > mike How about an Abacus? -MikeHD
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 16:38:46 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t9gt6$1qm$1@Mars.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: > >>Samba is a special case because it rides on the coattails >>of the commerical distribution of an enormously popular >>client. >I would disagree that Samba has to be a special >case. GCC has no commercial client driving it's >adoption, yet is enormously popular, No, it is just at a different point in the popularity cycle. 'C's acceptance and use was very much driven by commercial versions and people being paid to use them. >as is Linux itself. The same. If it didn't nearly exactly emulate much older systems popularized by commercial use we would never have heard of it. You might make a case for perl or apache as instances where the free system became successful on its own without inheriting the public relations and distribution network of a prior commercial work, but those aren't GPL'd. >Well I hope that by "great software" you mean >Samba :-). Yes, Samba is very well done, considering the obvious difficulty. >But I would disagree (cordially) with >your definition of the people supporting it as >fanatics. I don't think it could be done as well otherwise... >But one thing should always apply - "they who >own the code get to choose the license" (I >say "own", not "write" here to include commercial >companies who pay others to write their code >for them). No argument there. But this does get very, very messy when someone wants to contribute to an existing work. It is often the last 10% of the code that makes something useful but it may take 90% of the work to complete it and shake out the bugs. Under the GPL, though, the one who did the first little bit of work takes away everyone else's choice (or leaves only the choice to not release it). Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6tbset$mat$9489@wave.hypersurf.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <6tbset$mat$9489@wave.hypersurf.com> Message-ID: <cancel.6tbset$mat$9489@wave.hypersurf.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:43:40 +0000 Sender: emfhuonk@usacurrency.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - multiposted binary files BI=8745/1 SPAM ID=Ai07s1xLvG/V7k5olVh76A==
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:09:02 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35F8F6BD.2781E494@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> <6t9gt6$1qm$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeremy Allison wrote: ] But this argument could be used just as well against ] the BSD license as well as the GPL. Once code is under ] the BSD license it is (as far as I know) not legal ] to put a modified version of that code under the GPL. This is the fault of the GPL. The GPL specifically prevents the use of the "claim credit" clause. You need to read the "SleepyCat" license to see a GPL license that interoperates with the UCB License. For what it's worth, I *strongly* disagree with this license, but it is certainly a counter-example for your case here. ] Going back to your original point, the reason I ] don't want to contribute the DOS deny mode code ] (I wrote) from Samba to NetATalk (which is under ] the BSD license) as I don't want that code ending ] up in a commercial product that is not itself under ] the GPL. It took a lot of time and effort to get it ] correct and I consider it very valuable. ] ] Unfortunately the NetATalk license doesn't give me ] the security I want that this code will not be used ] against my wishes. This is a shame, since it works against "standardization through code agregation", which is perhaps the most powerful method of ensuring standards conformance. ] One of the reasons I personally don't like the ] BSD license is that it makes it harder to maintain ] that competitive advantage in your code (hmmm. Isn't ] this what terry is always saying the GPL prevents ? :-). Yes, it is. The distinction here is between code that is out ahead, and can't be caught up with because the GPL prevents the code from being reused in a situation where the bar is raised for everyone, vs. the danger that somone is going to raise the bar on you against the public code, and someone in the public forum will have to do something to keep up. Frankly, I think there are more Samba developers in the public forum than a commercial company could afford to employ, and so any atempt to privatize changes will fail, with or without the GPL. There's an argument to be made about the time during which Samba didn't have so many developers in the public sector, but this time is *long* past, and Samba has achieved a "critical mass" that would prevent its pritization *without* recourse to the GPL. Do you think Whistle would have chosen to not share Samba changes with the Samba community to achieve competitive advantage? I don't think so. The purpose of supporting Samba developement is to leverage that large number of developers out there, not to attempt to obtain a monopoly on a market in which Microsoft already holds a controlling interest. Ask the question again about SGI... the answer comes up the same. ] The GPL allows the competitive advantage to remain ] within the GPL-using community. It establishes a public trust as owner of the code. The question remaining to be answered in the Samba case is whether or not a public trust is necessary or sufficient in order to keep the code free. IMO, it is not necessary, since Samba has hit a critical mass. We could argue all day about whether or not Samba would have hit this xritical mass without the GPL to protect it between the time it was released and the time it hit it, but the success of FreeBSD and TCP/IP both argue that it would have survived to critical mass *without* the GPL. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: miquels@cistron.nl (Miquel van Smoorenburg) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.gui,microsoft.public.java.sdk Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 12 Sep 1998 01:55:12 +0200 Organization: Cistron Internet Services B.V. Message-ID: <6tcd90$59b$1@Q.cistron.nl> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> <6t8ckv$7g0$1@news.eunet.ro> <35f7c87a0000000a@ctnhnews.timken.com-MINC> <35F9CE5E.E1AA7916@wn.planet.gen.nz> NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Sep 1998 23:55:32 GMT >Richard Payne wrote: >> I've started writing a basic word processor using Java and >> Swing....but I'm not familiar with the MS file formats. >> Anybody feel like writing the code to interpret >> those file formats?? (preferable under GPL or BSD style license). In comp.os.linux.announce today a word to html converter was announced. I went to the webpage and it has a lot of info about the MS formats and pointers to other code interpreting the MS formats. Mike. -- "Seed me, Seymour" -- a random number generator meets the big green mother from outer space
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 10 Sep 1998 20:45:18 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6t9vbe$jnj$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> <6t9gt6$1qm$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >Going back to your original point, the reason I >don't want to contribute the DOS deny mode code >(I wrote) from Samba to NetATalk (which is under >the BSD license) as I don't want that code ending >up in a commercial product that is not itself under >the GPL. It took a lot of time and effort to get it >correct and I consider it very valuable. This is the part I don't understand: how is it valuable that the correct code not be used? Why is it a good thing to corrupt unsuspecting user's files? When the person who is supposed to make these things work realizes what is going on, what choice does he have but to replace the code with one of the commerical alternatives? >Unfortunately the NetATalk license doesn't give me >the security I want that this code will not be used >against my wishes. OK, if you understand that you are inflicting pain and that's what you really want. I just can't reconcile this with the concept of letting some people use the code without charge under some circumstances. >One of the reasons I personally don't like the >BSD license is that it makes it harder to maintain >that competitive advantage in your code (hmmm. Isn't >this what terry is always saying the GPL prevents ? :-). > >The GPL allows the competitive advantage to remain >within the GPL-using community. What does that mean? Is this supposed to be a different breed or something? I use whatever I can afford that gets the job done just like everyone else using Samba. They obviously aren't 'strictly-GPL-using' or they wouldn't have clients for Samba. I suppose it is now possible to use a completely-GPL'd system but I don't know anyone who does or why it should matter. I don't see how it gives any advantage to anyone that it takes an NT or Novell server with Appletalk extensions to keep from corrupting files with different client access. I think it would be perfectly wonderful for everyone if dbase, foxpro and the like would run under DOSEMU in a telnet session along with samba connections to the same host and eventually WINE hosted sessions. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: cbbrowne@news.hex.net (Christopher Browne) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 11 Sep 1998 00:47:46 GMT Organization: Hex.Net Superhighway, DFW Metroplex 817-329-3182 Message-ID: <6t9rvi$pl2$2@blue.hex.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> On 9 Sep 1998 05:23:39 GMT, David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> wrote: >In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@news.hex.net> wrote: >> Things that have the "GPL virus" are forced to "stay free." Things with >> the "BSD virus" can be "privatized," and while it hasn't happened with >> NetBSD, OpenBSD, or FreeBSD, something of the sort *has* happened to >> X11R6.4. > >That's ok. The Whistle InterJet is based on FreeBSD 3.0. Who knows, >they may become more successful than the FreeBSD we know. They may make >all kinds of enhancements that make their products OS much >nicer/better/faster/featureful than FreeBSD. Who cares??? I still have >FreeBSD to use, run, and read the source code. I didn't say that was not OK; it certainly appears the case that enough people care to work from source code that the presence of a binary-only release from Whistle isn't pushing FreeBSD out of the "public venue." There are enough sorts of special customizations that can come out of source availability as to keep at some group of freely-source-available OSes under continuing development. What I was indicating is that there are different intents and different interests that *do* justify the presence of the differing GPL vs "BSDL" approaches. >We are not all guaranteed to be able to have the same as our brother. >Just because someone has something, doesn't mean you have a right to have >it too. What is wrong with just as good alternatives?? Isn't this what >Linux weenies keep telling corporate MIS staff? I have no problem with that. -- There are two kinds of people in the world: People who think there are two kinds of people and people who don't. cbbrowne@ntlug.org- <http//www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
From: cbbrowne@news.hex.net (Christopher Browne) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 11 Sep 1998 00:47:51 GMT Organization: Hex.Net Superhighway, DFW Metroplex 817-329-3182 Message-ID: <6t9rvn$pl2$3@blue.hex.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t45sc$51g$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m2ww7e44gb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> On 9 Sep 1998 05:17:59 GMT, David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> wrote: >In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: >>> So why aren't the GNU/Linux weenies cutting on X11? Pretty much a >>> BSD-style copyright. Yep, some commercial companies added extensions >>> that they won't release to the public in source form. > >> You are not running the newest release of X11, X11 R6.4 on your open >> source box. That is because no open source distributor is allowed to >> put the newest source of X11 on a CD sold for profit. > >What is wrong with this??? Don't the GPL-license people see any problem >in people spending their time and $$ and then others making $$$ from >their labors?? Isn't this one of the big arguments made in this thread >about the BSD-style license being so bad? > >So what, The Open Group wants their part of the pie too. What is so >wrong with that? The issue that I have a problem with is that they're mixing together freely contributed developments particularly including the work done at MIT along with XFree86 efforts and a smaller quantity of privately done development at TOG, and are charging for the *whole thing.* >As an individual I'm still allowed to download the source, read the >source, and run it on my own machine. It is just that I can't make $$ >from it. (you know, this keeps sounding like GPL stuff..) The GPL doesn't prevent you from charging for software; it prevents you from preventing redistribution. That has the side effect of providing practical upper bounds on how much can be charged for what amounts to "copying costs." Which looks remarkably similar to "can't make $$$ from it," although the presence of organizations like Red Hat, SuSE, and others suggests otherwise... >> The X/Open Group has decided that they'll take the source to which a >> lot of people have contributed under the BSD copyright, and only >> release versions not to be sold to anybody in future. > >From the XFree86 web site: "This is because a license fee must now be >paid by those who generate revenue from distributing their SI or code >derived from it. TOG has stated that the X11 standards will, however, >remain "open"." Remember that SI code includes: a) Freely contributed components from MIT, b) Corporate contributions from various UNIX vendors, and c) Code written by TOG. There's no good moral justification for charging for a); which is what people have *big* problems with. The UNIX vendors went in "eyes open," so that charging for b) can't be *strongly* justified. >Like I said above, so what. Maybe the Open Group will spend some top >dollars and add some new features and really good ideas. That seems pretty unlikely to me. They've spent bucks on Motif and CDE, and *it* hasn't set the world on fire. It looks more like X is being treated as a "legacy technology" that they might be able to use as a "cash cow." >Then the free software community will just copy the functionality. >Lesstif is a good example. W/o the ability to make money on it, Motif >wouldn't have come about. With the number of programmers that would >rather program to Motif than to X11 toolkits, it must have contributed >something to the software development community. Motif and CDE are both technologies that represent *political* solutions rather than technological ones. They were compromises that were introduced to try to bring the UNIX vendors together. Everyone wanted *some* common GUI system; a variety of ideas came up, and Motif turned out to be the least worst from a political perspective. Remember, the UNIX vendors wanted something to *SELL UNIX BOXES.* The licensing fees for Motif almost disappear as "noise" when dropped on top of that. To DEC, IBM, Sun, HP, DG, SGI, et. al., Motif licensing probably represents an expenditure of some hundreds of thousands of dollars. Whether that's a license fee passed thru to customers or a straight charge doesn't much matter. It's $1M out of the bottom line regardless whether it comes from license fees or from paying in something to run the Consortium. The main *benefit* to having licensing fees is that it makes {Motif,CDE} an exclusionary tool such that {DEC,IBM,Sun,HP,DG,SGI,...} thus have a "standard" that others are locked out of. To read it otherwise, then you have to assume that these vendors are in the business of selling UNIX. While Sun does sell Solaris86 as a individual product, that is an anomaly as none of the others (and SCO is a further anomaly) sell UNIX. They sell computer hardware, need an OS, and chose UNIX. -- There are two kinds of people in the world: People who think there are two kinds of people and people who don't. cbbrowne@ntlug.org- <http//www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
From: "Travis Stevenson" <stevensontw@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:11:11 -0600 Organization: CyberHighway Internet Services Message-ID: <6ta0i6$iuc$1@news.cyberhighway.net> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> Try StarOffice for Linux. The personal use on is free. This will read all different kinds of Documenst from WP to Word. using the Linux Emulation will work. Travis Stevenson Frank Crary wrote in message <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu>... >In article <35F7025B.743962B7@uwaterloo.ca>, >Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >>And I'll be running them on my NetBSD box. But not if they're Microsoft >>Monstrosities. Emacs and Netscape/Mozilla are big enough, I don't need >>to add Word 97 to my list of bloated apps. > >I don't like it, but I may want to run Word on a FreeBSD or other >Unix machine. My users and I are getting Word documents attached to >email. This is happening more often as time goes on. This is a >problem, since there are no UNIX versions of Word (to the best of >my knowledge) and I really don't want to deal with bloatware. >Ideally, I'd like something to convert Word files to postscript, >dvi, or some other viewable and printable format (converting >Word to an easily editable format is probably too much to ask for.) >Does anyone know of any UNIX software along these lines? If it >is available and licensing allows it, I would be willing to turn >this into an addition to the FreeBSD ports collection. > > Frank Crary > CU Boulder
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEz4oDn.9CL@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> <6t9gt6$1qm$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com> <6t9vbe$jnj$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:27:23 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >This is the part I don't understand: how is it valuable >that the correct code not be used? Why is it a good >thing to corrupt unsuspecting user's files? When the >person who is supposed to make these things work realizes >what is going on, what choice does he have but to replace >the code with one of the commerical alternatives? It is valuable *code* - not valuable that the code not be used. There is a distinction here. I have previously offered the NetATalk folks to make this code available in a shared library under the LGPL to allow them to use it under their BSD style license - however doing so will be a lot of work that I personally don't have time to do right now. If someone else wishes to do this they can use the code with my blessing. What I will *not* do is make the code available under the BSD license, as this would be equivalent to allowing unrestricted use by proprietary concerns who would not contribute back bug fixes. And before you claim denial I have ample evidence of such things occurring *with the Samba code* - most of which we have managed to stop by threat of legal action. Samba being under the GPL has not stopped many proprietary software vendors using Samba as part of their product (legally) - so I don't see why you claim I'm inflicting pain here ? NetATalk chose a rather peculiar license that makes them incompatible with other Open Source licenses, so if there's pain here, it's self inflicted. >OK, if you understand that you are inflicting pain >and that's what you really want. I just can't >reconcile this with the concept of letting some >people use the code without charge under some >circumstances. Nope - I don't want to inflict pain, I just don't want to help people who don't want to help me. Very selfish, I'm afraid but it's just the way I am :-). >>The GPL allows the competitive advantage to remain >>within the GPL-using community. >What does that mean? Is this supposed to be a different breed or >something? I use whatever I can afford that gets the job done >just like everyone else using Samba. They obviously aren't >'strictly-GPL-using' or they wouldn't have clients for Samba. I >suppose it is now possible to use a completely-GPL'd system but I >don't know anyone who does or why it should matter. I don't see >how it gives any advantage to anyone that it takes an NT or Novell >server with Appletalk extensions to keep from corrupting files with >different client access. I think it would be perfectly wonderful >for everyone if dbase, foxpro and the like would run under DOSEMU >in a telnet session along with samba connections to the same host >and eventually WINE hosted sessions. And I have offered a solution to just that problem. Now if you'd just start coding up that LGPL library... (but remember to respect the license of the original authors :-). Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Ez5H1s.1C0@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> <35F105FA.FF6D5DF@spam.me> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:46:40 GMT In article <35F105FA.FF6D5DF@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: >I disagree because the cost of maintenance of GPL'ed code can >not be recouped by the company paying for the maintenance to >occur. Maintenance of GPL'ed code is either strategically or >altruistically motivated. > >In the case of Cygnus, people are paid to maintain the code >as a method of the people paying for the maintenance exercising >control over direction and specific areas of concentration. In >other words, for strategic advantage. Hum, good point, glad you raised it. I was tending to think from the perspective of all the users of the code over the long term and averaged over the entire user base. Your view seems to be a little more narrowly focused than mine. I will agree that it is easier for a single company to recoup maintenance costs in non-GPLed code. Turn your thinking out beyond a single company and comment on the cost to maintain the code as seen by all users. In the end, we know that they will arrange to buy software that is cheaper, functionality being the same, right?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <Ez5G8z.qy@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 02:29:23 GMT In article <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net>, Matt Dillon <dillon@best.net> wrote: >:In article <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@kithrup.com> wrote: >:>In article <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com>, >:>John S. Dyson <root@dyson.iquest.net> wrote: >:>>> It isn't a major point, but my feeling is because companies can't >:>>> prevent the further redistribution of source code if it is GPLed >:>>> but can if is isn't, the cost to maintain the non-GPLed code >:>>> will tend to be higher. >:> >:>Do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree, please state why. > > Umm, Mike, you seem to be under the incorrect impression that the > BSD copyright prevents people from submitting derived works back > into the freeware pool. Bzzt, wrong, thanks for playing. You seemed to have totally missed this part of the thread, try reading my comment again, and comment on it. > We do keep a few items to ourselves, i.e. we have a few > 'proprietary' extensions that we've developed. Yes, and this was my point. Maintenance costs will tend to be higher in non-GPLed code. Let me state what I stated again, do you agree, or disagree? If you disagree, please state why.
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 11 Sep 1998 23:44:22 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6tcckm$lb6@enews2.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> <6t7j36$32e$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <jeremyEz1x7J.ApL@netcom.com> <6t9gt6$1qm$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com>, jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) writes: > les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > >>No argument there. But this does get very, very >>messy when someone wants to contribute to an existing >>work. It is often the last 10% of the code that >>makes something useful but it may take 90% of the >>work to complete it and shake out the bugs. Under >>the GPL, though, the one who did the first little >>bit of work takes away everyone else's choice (or >>leaves only the choice to not release it). > > But this argument could be used just as well against > the BSD license as well as the GPL. Once code is under > the BSD license it is (as far as I know) not legal > to put a modified version of that code under the GPL. > That is, of course, due to restrictions and encumberances associated with the GPL license. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 12 Sep 1998 01:59:06 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6tckha$hdr@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> <35F74051.D14D634F@uwaterloo.ca> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <35F74051.D14D634F@uwaterloo.ca>, Jonathan Fuerth <jhfuerth@uwaterloo.ca> wrote: >> [A program to convert MS Word to a] >> printable format (converting Word to an easily editable >> format is probably too much to ask for.) Does anyone >> know of any UNIX software along these lines? If it >> is available and licensing allows it, I would be willing >> to turn this into an addition to the FreeBSD ports >> collection. >Well, you can't add it to the ports collection... Ok, I'll bite. Why not? I know MS Word is proprietary software, but are you saying the Word format is, itself, proprietary? That doesn't agree with your following comments, unless Corel is paying a licensing fee to Microsoft. >...but as I mentioned in my >original post (ok, I admit it was in the wrong thread...) Corel >WordPerfect Suite 8 will be available for Linux, meaning that us *BSD >people can run it.... >I know for a fact that Suite 8 is capable of loading and saving >documents in Word 6 and Word 97 formats. Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:42:10 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <35FBCBB2.5B5C4F77@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <6sqifj$5rs$1@Mars.mcs.net> <6t06j1$leh@graves.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Sep 1998 13:58:29 GMT I know a graphic artist who designed fonts, but someone would come along and alter a serif and call it his own font... Needless to say, this graphic artist doesn't do fonts anymore. Dermot Frost wrote: > > les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > > >Is it illegal to scribble notes in the margin of a purchased book? > > Nope, but it would be illegal to re-publish the book with your notes added > and then to call yourself the author. Someone else does the donkey work > and you then try and get the credit? I don't think so. > > >Does > >it matter if the subject of the book is about guaranteeing your freedom > >to share and make changes? > > Makes not a bit of difference, still legal to scribble, illegal to > reproduce. Do you not have the bit on the first few pages of a book > where you live that say summat like > > "Reproduction or translation of any part of this work ... is unlawful" > > (From the inside of Five Golden Rules by John Casti, which happened to > be the nearest book to hand as I wrote this article). Hmmm I wonder if > my reproducing that bit of the book is unlawful?? I await the writ from > the publishers :) > > Cya > -- > whathaveibecome? mysweetestfriend everyoneiknow goesawayintheend > youcouldhaveitall myempireofdirt iwillletyoudown iwillmakeyouhurt > ificouldstartagain amillionmilesaway iwouldkeepmyself iwouldfindaway -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: Benne <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fido.ger.next Subject: NE2000 Networkcard drivers for Openstep Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:25:12 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <35FBE3D8.FC80DF16@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, I just wanted to ask, if there are any NE2000 compatible networkadapter driver for Openstep 4.2 available? If yes, where can I get the drivers? Answers per e-mail to: bgreiner@gmx.de Thank you Hallo, ich wollte nur einmal fragen, ob von Openstep 4.2 NE2000 kompatible Netzwerkkarten unterstützt werden und wenn ja, wo bekomme ich die Treiber? Antwort bitte per Mail an: bgreiner@gmx.de Danke. Benjamin
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:41:52 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <35FA4FF0.2781E494@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup.com> <6snmtt$6r1$1@flea.best.net> <35F105FA.FF6D5DF@spam.me> <Ez5H1s.1C0@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Stump wrote: ] I will agree that it is easier for a single company to recoup ] maintenance costs in non-GPLed code. ] ] Turn your thinking out beyond a single company and comment on the ] cost to maintain the code as seen by all users. In the end, we ] know that they will arrange to buy software that is cheaper, ] functionality being the same, right? Yes. But "cheaper" is a functionality of the product life-cycle, and goes beyond one-time costs (at least for successful companies it does). For an apt analogy, look at mail-order PC vendors. You can always find a cheaper vendor, who will be out of business in three months because they are attempting to get market share through a loss-leader (ie: sell at low/no profit until they are established, then raise prices). So it's in my short term interests to go with GPL, but in my long term interests to keep some code proprietary, at least until it is [about to be] recreated publically. This is the essence of the strategic/tactical distinction. In the limit, we can come up with a technology that is similar to "Star Trek" replicators, wherein the value of an object is the result of the arrangement of its atoms, and the atoms themselves are nearly freely available. We are, in fact, very close to this today (see http://nano.xerox.com/nano.html ), and may realistically achieve the same by 2027 or so. In such a world, the only thing that has non-commodity value is, in fact, information. At that point, the GPL is actually a threat to public safety, unless it is universally applied. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: "Daithi O'Cuinn" <docuinn@cluke.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 13 Sep 98 15:59:43 +0000 Message-ID: <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> >Always quote in alphabetical order..... ;-) >Acorn, Amiga, Atari and Apple - although Amiga shouldn't really be quoted >because it's a model name and not a company name. :-) It is now... see http://www.amiga.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daithi O'Cuinn | "The twisted brain-wrong of a one-off man mental" - _____________ / \__________ Chris Morris, Brass Eye |docuinn@cluke.demon.co.uk| The Viscount's Hompage - Surreal Madness |Amiga1200@30/50 10Mb | http://www.geocities.com/soho/7257 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dermot Frost<dfrost@maths.tcd.ie> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 7 Sep 1998 09:47:29 +0100 Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland. Sender: mathnews@graves.maths.tcd.ie Message-ID: <6t06j1$leh@graves.maths.tcd.ie> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6ser2f$s94$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6sid7p$2uu$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <6smhku$cn8$1@52-a-usw.rb1.blv.nwnexus.net> <6sqifj$5rs$1@Mars.mcs.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Sep 1998 08:47:30 GMT les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >Is it illegal to scribble notes in the margin of a purchased book? Nope, but it would be illegal to re-publish the book with your notes added and then to call yourself the author. Someone else does the donkey work and you then try and get the credit? I don't think so. >Does >it matter if the subject of the book is about guaranteeing your freedom >to share and make changes? Makes not a bit of difference, still legal to scribble, illegal to reproduce. Do you not have the bit on the first few pages of a book where you live that say summat like "Reproduction or translation of any part of this work ... is unlawful" (From the inside of Five Golden Rules by John Casti, which happened to be the nearest book to hand as I wrote this article). Hmmm I wonder if my reproducing that bit of the book is unlawful?? I await the writ from the publishers :) Cya -- whathaveibecome? mysweetestfriend everyoneiknow goesawayintheend youcouldhaveitall myempireofdirt iwillletyoudown iwillmakeyouhurt ificouldstartagain amillionmilesaway iwouldkeepmyself iwouldfindaway
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.gui,microsoft.public.java.sdk Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 13 Sep 1998 19:33:27 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5af43si48.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> <6t8ckv$7g0$1@news.eunet.ro> <35f7c87a0000000a@ctnhnews.timken.com-MINC> <35F9CE5E.E1AA7916@wn.planet.gen.nz> <35FBD412.6A28@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Sep 1998 23:33:29 GMT Microsoft has apparently released a description of the newest Word format, as well as Excel, Powerpoint, etc. I think. You can get it somewhere on their web site, but you have to sign up for the "Microsoft developer's club" or something... I hear, though, that it's free if all you want is to see these docs. Word6 format and before is still unpublished though. Sorry for the vagueness, but there was a discussion on one of the Linux developer's groups last week you can probably find via DejaNews or something--I'm not interested so it didn't stick :-/ -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 14 Sep 1998 01:13:27 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6thqjn$mg3@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> <6ta0i6$iuc$1@news.cyberhighway.net> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <6ta0i6$iuc$1@news.cyberhighway.net>, Travis Stevenson <stevensontw@hotmail.com> wrote: >Try StarOffice for Linux. The personal use on is free. >This will read all different kinds of Documenst from WP to Word. >using the Linux Emulation will work. Thanks, but the other suggestions about MSWordView, catdoc, word2x and strings were more what I was looking for. I basically wanted a way to view Word documents, which are being attached to email more and more frequently, _and_ I wanted to do that without adding resource-intensive programs (I'll be nice and avoid calling StarOffice ``bloatware.'') Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com (Vernon Schryver) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is 'free' software? (Was: Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 13 Sep 1998 09:09:57 -0600 Organization: Rhyolite Software Message-ID: <6tgn85$6nq@calcite.rhyolite.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6sisrj$6ml@enews3.newsguy.com> <EyqGEp.1yq@kithrup. <1df8wno.19vsvdif006buN@roxboro0-006.dyn.interpath.net> In article <1df8wno.19vsvdif006buN@roxboro0-006.dyn.interpath.net>, John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> wrote: > ... >> Yes, and this was my point. Maintenance costs will tend to be higher >> in non-GPLed code. Let me state what I stated again, do you agree, or >> disagree? If you disagree, please state why. > >Maintenance cost doesn't depend upon the license or whether the >source is provided to the customer - it depends upon the bugs you >have in your program, and how much you have to pay people to fix >them. Even if some people are willing to submit their fixes for >free (which is by no means guaranteed) you still want to have >someone on the payroll to 'vet their code which can take longer >to do than writing it from scratch yourself. That might be true of the maintenance costs of users who do their own fixing, but it is false for vendors. The GPL raises maintenance costs for vendors because of the hassles of releasing the fixed source with each fixed binary. Anyone who thinks that it is just as easy to release source patches with binary patches has never had or taken the opportunity to look at the complete costs of software maintenance in a big outfit. It's often true that a 10-man outfit can release sources with binaries as easily as binaries alone. Big outfits are different. Getting the test group to test the binary you changed, and the release group to release what you changed and that the test group tested, and not what they think you should have released and the test people should have tested usually takes far more time and at least as much effort as making the original diagnosis and fix. It is a Bad Idea(tm) to ship source and more than double the piles of stuff that the test and release organizations will feel compelled to argue about and otherwise prove the value of their organizations to the rest of the company. Never mind that in reality in big outfits there are also marketing and support organizations that must agree to releasing anything and generally proving they matter. Unless you are pointy-haired and prefer to maximize the effort your group puts into everything, since that justifies hiring more people and so getting a raise yourself, you avoid GPL'ed source unless there is no easier alternative. Yes, you do not have to put GPL source on the same CDROM as the binaries, but instead can even use public FTP to ship it. Try explaining that to the typical pointy-haired general manager, or the manager of a test or release group. Yes, it should not be true that test and release groups exist first and foremost to prove they need to exist and that they do that by trying keep software from shipping, or at least make releases as expensive and slow as possible. It should not be true that the first duty of any manager is to maximize the effort required per unit of work. "Dilbert" also should have nothing to do with real life. For that matter, the FSF is right. From each according to his inclinations and to each according to his desires is the nicest way to arrange society. All of us who are programmers should be supported in the style to which we aspire simply because we are so smart. -- Vernon Schryver vjs@rhyolite.com
From: "Karsten M. Self" <kmself@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:26:41 +0000 Organization: Self Analysis Message-ID: <35FC7EE1.D8C938A6@ix.netcom.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEyxr5o.35I@netcom.com> <6t1sn4$bri$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEyz82n.1vr@netcom.com> <6t3tms$468$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEyzDDt.9Ar@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeremy Allison wrote: > >>I disagree. See my comments to Brett Glass (a BSD "fanatic" > >>if ever there was one) on the last Open Source infoworld > >>forum for details on how any other license than the GPL > >>would have derailed Samba early on. > > >Where can I find that? > > Check out "the mother of all InfoWorld forums" at : > > http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?70162 > > particularly my comment and the comments under it > starting at : > > http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?70286 While we're on the topic, my own response to Ross Lunsford's misunderstanding of GPL are here: http://forums.infoworld.com/threads/get.cgi?71442 I welcome any corrections or clarifications of my argument if errors are found. I'll even agree with Ross that I was being somewhat more overbearing than usual, but I don't feel this was completely undeserved. -- Karsten M. Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com) What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand? Welchen Teil von "Gestalt" verstehen Sie nicht? web: http://www.netcom.com/~kmself SAS/Linux: http://www.netcom.com/~kmself/SAS/SAS4Linux.html 7:21pm up 92 days, 16:50, 2 users, load average: 1.52, 1.37, 1.23
From: Tiggr <Tig@whitekt.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:07:33 +0100 Organization: White Knight Message-ID: <ant1321331cbBB6N@whitekt.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.3.96.980908165918.30281E-100000@www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk> <murphyn.905277740@orca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII In article <murphyn.905277740@orca>, Neal P. Murphy <URL:mailto:murphyn@orca.cig.mot.com> wrote: > Graham Briggs <gb226@cam.ac.uk> writes: > > >On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Adrian Jackson wrote: > > >-)Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. > >-) > >-)<life TYPE = "Brian"> > >-)Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what > >-)computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for > >-)us? > >-) > >-)Well, there's Amstrads. > >-)</life> > > ><more life (intruding on many NG's)> > > >Yes, but apart from Acorn, Amigas, Ataris, Apples and Amstrads, what > >computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for us? > > >Um, how about Apricots? > > If one wanted to stretch reality a bit, one could include the AT&T Unix PC > (aka PC7300 and 3B1). IIRC, AT&T had Olivetti build it. Does that qualify > as 'Roman' in origin? Abacus? :-) -- _____ |. _ Tig@whitekt.demon.co.uk ||(_) ____) White Knight on the Web - http://www.whitekt.demon.co.uk
From: Kirk Abbott <abbottk@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.java.gui,microsoft.public.java.sdk Subject: Re: MS Word on FreeBSD (was Re: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:17:54 -0400 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <35FBD412.6A28@earthlink.net> References: <6t7cif$f16@lace.colorado.edu> <6t8ckv$7g0$1@news.eunet.ro> <35f7c87a0000000a@ctnhnews.timken.com-MINC> <35F9CE5E.E1AA7916@wn.planet.gen.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Sheppard <jedi@wn.planet.gen.nz> Have a look at http://www.wotsit.org/ They describe & have pointers to *many* file formats including Word. At http://www.wotsit.org/text.htm you will see a file called wword8.zip which *claims* to describe Word 8/ Word 97 Format. Cheers, Kirk. > Note the "only".
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 14 Sep 1998 00:06:43 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6ti893$lq5$1@Venus.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEz3EB5.3t5@netcom.com> <6t9vbe$jnj$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz4oDn.9CL@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEz4oDn.9CL@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >And I have offered a solution to just that problem. >Now if you'd just start coding up that LGPL library... >(but remember to respect the license of the original >authors :-). Well, never mind, then... I don't see any problem with the LGPL if the parts that need to interoperate can be isolated. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 14 Sep 1998 00:11:21 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6ti8hp$lsi$1@Venus.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > >> And the insanity of the GPL is that I have the right >>to have and use that code on any machine where I want it. I just >>can't get it already working and included as a component of something >>else. > >Demonstrably false. Buy a Whistle Interjet (now there's a good idea :-). Why would I buy it if I can build one for free? (Actually that's a serious question, although off-topic for here. I can't tell how much of the thing is custom and how much isn't from the web blurb.) >That includes much GPL code included as an integrated component. >As do other "Open Source" applience vendors. To the extent that the same thing is available for free it seems like a mistake to pay for it. If parts are not free, doesn't that argue against what you are trying to accomplish with the GPL? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: x557@mindspring.com (x557@mindspring.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Question about problem with IDE/"won't mount" HELP! Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:35:18 GMT Organization: x557@mindspring.com Message-ID: <35fcb898.1010137@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would someone tell me if they have encountered this problem before? I am trying to install OpenStep 4.2 "mach" on my Intel machine. I have an "ide" (or is it "eide") hard drive. I have a regular ide 'ata' or 'atapi' cd-drom. You know how you put the disks in the drive, and it boots off the bootup disks, and then you choose what kind of drivers you want? Well, I choose what kind of drivers, I choose many different kinds. I spent about 5 hours trying about 30-40 different combinations. including ide, primar/secondary (dual) edide and atapi etc.etc. But I never could get it to 'mount'. I would always end up with something like, "No Scsi Controller or CD-ROM drive found" and some little numbers like, "SD%D, HD%D FD%D, TR%D". Although, one time I was able to get it to say 'waiting for cd-drive to respond', but still, in the end, it wouldn't work. I'm using a pretty standard setup, with matrox, 64megs, etc. my question is, has anyone else run into this problem before? I think there is some little thing I'm leaving out, and thought I would ask! If anyone has any ideas, would you please post them? I will read them tomorrow when I get back online. p.s. I hope I got the right newsgroup(s).
From: not@this.address (Jason) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:30:40 -0800 Organization: none Message-ID: <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> In article <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk>, "Daithi O'Cuinn" <docuinn@cluke.demon.co.uk> wrote: <snip> http://www.MacKiDo.com/Interface/ui_history.html About Contacts Apple did not Rip-off its UI from Xerox By: David K. Every Legend Microsoft did rip-off most of its UI from Apple (or others) ©Copyright 1998 Advocacy AppleBits There is an ongoing myth that Microsoft is justified in ripping off the Macs DarkSide User Interface, because Apple had just ripped off the MacUI from Xerox PARC Myths (Palo Alto Research Center). Many go on to further say that Apple took the UI Opinion from the ALTO or STAR. Of course the people that say this have never used a Mac and an Alto or a Star, or they would know how silly these claims are. Info I want to point out that philosophically and morally, theft from one Dojo person does NOT justify the theft of another. If Apple did steal the History UI from Xerox (which they did not), that would not forgive Microsoft Interface of the same crime -- that would only make Apple guilty of a crime as Web well. So using this as a rationalization for Microsofts theft is void of any merit. Reference Links Apple and Xerox People Reference Apple did not "rip-off" the Macs UI from Xerox. Apple had hired some people from Reviews Xerox (like Jef Raskin) who believed in concepts of a Graphical User Interface. Sightings Jef Raskin (and others) work on these concepts, far predates Xerox PARC and Apples work on GUI's[?] predates Steve Jobs visit to Palo Alto Research Center. Misc These concepts are very broad concepts, like making a computer easier to use, Thought using graphics (and Icons), and making a consistent interface to do things. Some Politics ideas exist in common, like menu's, windows and a mouse, but the implementations Humor are very very different. Martial Arts Later Jobs did visit Xerox PARC, but he only saw a small-talk development system (Alto), and did not see either a working ALTO (or Star which was developed much [Image] later). Jobs later negotiated a deal with Xerox to give them a large sum of stock in Apple if he could come back, and bring some programmers, to inspire them more on the concepts of GUI. This was agreed to by Xerox, and so by no [Image] stretch of the imagination could this be called "ripping-off". PARC was a research center -- meant to inspire development. But they did not really develop products (in the commercial sense), they developed ideas. Saying that Apple learning some of the base concepts and then applying them was "ripping-off" is like saying that Air-Bags are ripping off Newton -- because Air Bags work because they adhere to some of the laws of physics first expressed by Sir Isaac. This is a silly silly argument. So Apple had some of the same researchers brought to Apple as had been working on Xerox, and Apple hired more. Those researches state quite clearly that the goals and implementation were quite different between Xerox. Following is an exchange between two of those researchers, and should give you an idea of how much the Mac contributed to the concepts of UI - * Letter from Bruce Horn on origins of Macs UI * Response from Jef Raskin (another Mac founder) * Response from Bruce to Raskins Letter The letters do seem to agree that the Macs UI was created at Apple, by Apple and for Apple. And that little if any Xerox work was taken, and the Mac was in a completely different universe. The differences in UI between the Xerox UI and Apples' Mac were startlingly different. Years ago I saw a demo of a Alto. From my memory (which may not be flawless), it had a 3 button mouse (which you operated with your right hand), and a chording keyboard (for the left hand). There were overlapping windows, but there was no direct manipulation of those windows. To move the window you selected an option from the one Menu (that you had for each window) -- then you entered in a dialog either the size or location you wanted the window to be at. There were icons, but icons were not associated with files -- they were more actions. Think of icons in that extent as verbs (do this, or do that) -- Apple made them into nouns, objects that you manipulated that represented data. There wasn't that much direct manipulation, and most of the usage of the multiple windows was so that you could have multiple character terminals (like DOS[?]) open at the same time. Contrast this with a Mac and you see that Apple went way way beyond what they saw. Xerox extended their developments over time as well, but this is not ripping off. Jobs kept beating on the Mac people that "Real Artists Ship!" - and that they were making a product. That is not anything like the research atmosphere at Xerox. The Mac was 128k based personal computer, based on a Motorola 68000 processor - the MacOS was designed around Pascal with lots of assembly language for size/speed. The Xerox machines were anything but personal computers -- they did not use microprocessors (would be closer to mini-computers), they had no real resource constraints as the Mac did, they ran slower (in real use), were far less elegant, were very immature (yet had some brilliant concepts) and were not really products -- they were just research tools. The Xerox Machines were built around Small-Talk (a very resource wasteful language) and does not use code that looks anything like Object Pascal. The Mac and the Alto are about as related as a Motorcycle and a Semi-truck -- sure they both have wheels and run on roads, after that it gets pretty divergent. Note: There is not a single line of code that Apple got from Xerox, nor could have since the languages and designs of the system were so radically different. Apple and Microsoft Now what happened with Microsoft? Well it starts out that Microsoft was one of the first Application Developers for the Mac. Apple (Jobs) knew that the Mac needed Software[?] to be commercially viable, and Jobs learned that Microsoft was trying to break in to the Application market. (Few remember that MS made languages and later OS's[?] and it wasn't until the Mac that they started making Applications). So Jobs showed Microsoft the early Mac prototypes. Gates liked the ideas and agreed to write Mac applications. Gates later threatened to pull their apps at the last minute before release unless Jobs agreed to - A) Apple had to license some of the MacUI for MS-Applications on the PC. This Application suite later grew into Windows[?] 1.0 and so on. Because Apple had licensed some concepts to Microsoft (under coercion), it weakened their case later against MS when MS started more blatantly ripping off the Mac. This is mostly why Apple lost their lawsuit with MS, contrary to popular myth. B) Apple had to drop their MacBasic project which was completed and better than MS Basic. MacBasic had many concepts that MS ripped off to create VisualBasic. What few ideas for VB that MS didn't rip off from MacBasic they got from HyperCard[?] -- which Bill Atkinson wrote because the Mac didn't have a good simple programming environment, because MS had dropped their basic for the Mac and had forced MacBasic to canceled as well. Later MS decided that the GUI was just too cool not to use. So they started on an Application Suite that would use the Macs concepts of Windows, a Mouse, and direct manipulation to achieve its ends. This became Windows 1.0, and evolved into the Windows we know and hate today. The lead programmer for the Windows project was the same guy who had been a lead programmer for writing the Mac Application projects. This is not the same as taking rough concepts and adding to them to create your own system -- this is much more intimate than that, this guy was a Mac Programmer! Almost every design decision, for early windows, was how to make a PC look and work JUST like a Mac. In fact Gates has been quotes as saying that to many of his programmers on many occasions -- "I want this thing to be just like a Mac!". Contrast that to Apple and Xerox where Apple wanted to make the most Insanely Great computer ever created and you get an idea for the difference in philosophy. This similarity was not just in design, there are whole toolboxes/API that are almost identical. Microsoft stole data structures and many routines, and the names and concepts for many things are the same as well. If it wasn't for the fact that they had to hack their stuff on top of DOS, they likely would have just stolen all the same code. If you look at many of the older Windows routines you see names and structures that are identical to the Mac -- but MS is just good enough to not lose lawsuits, they would change one name out of 10 or so, or re-order a few things so they could say it wasn't identical (just in case). MS did have to make some design changes as well, just to get it to run on a PC. But as far as the design work for Windows, there was none -- the Mac was a living design document. At first, MS only ripped off the design an implementation, but stayed away from Apple's look and feel. They knew that Apple would only tollerate so much theft. Later MS crossed this line as well, and Apple sued. It was when they started to steal the desktop metaphor (folders, trashcan, etc.) that Apple had enough. No matter what the legal decisions are, ethical MS ripped off the Mac. Later (post 1995) Microsoft has started to put some money into R&D, and they may try to innovate. Up to this point, they did not innovate -- they may rework others ideas, or add features to, but that's not "true" innovation. Conclusions Apple did not rip-off the Alto (Xerox-Parc) -- how could they? Apple was a product oriented company that produced a computer on its own --that had a few similarities in concept (user interface) with stuff Xerox was doing, but almost NOTHING in common design or implementation. Apple's metaphors went way way beyond what Xerox was doing (though there are other areas where Xerox was beyond Apple). They were trying to achieve different goals -- and from different points of view. Apple was creating the ultimate personal computer. Xerox was doing research tools, and later tried to make a big client-server type document distribution system. These are about as similar as a motorcyle and a commuter Bus. Microsoft on the other hand did rip-off Apple. The concept of making a computer easy to use is way to broad to protect, and Apple didn't complain about that. Window, icons and menu's are not ripping Apple off either -- these are broad concepts. Microsoft got sued because they stole design, impelementation and finally metaphors and look and feel. They stole the way you manipulate things on the computer -- as well as almost everything underneath. I sometimes swear that if Microsoft had an original thought the company would immediately implode in suprise. Almost Everything good in Windows can be traced directly to the Mac (which the Mac had years before) -- and almost everything bad in Windows can be traced directly to where MS tried to do things different than the Mac and proved they don't know what they hell they are doing.
From: trail@ix.netcom.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: Question about problem with IDE/"won't mount" HELP! Date: 14 Sep 1998 12:32:49 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6tj2dh$qr6@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <35fcb898.1010137@news.mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <35fcb898.1010137@news.mindspring.com> On 09/14/98, x557@mindspring.com wrote: >Would someone tell me if they have encountered >this problem before? I am trying to install >OpenStep 4.2 "mach" on my Intel machine. I have >an "ide" (or is it "eide") hard drive. I have a >regular ide 'ata' or 'atapi' cd-drom. You know >how you put the disks in the drive, and it boots >off the bootup disks, and then you choose what kind >of drivers you want? Well, I choose what kind of >drivers, I choose many different kinds. I spent >about 5 hours trying about 30-40 different combinations. >including ide, primar/secondary (dual) edide and atapi etc.etc. >But I never could get it to 'mount'. I would always end >up with something like, "No Scsi Controller or CD-ROM >drive found" and some little numbers like, "SD%D, HD%D >FD%D, TR%D". Although, one time I was able to get it to >say 'waiting for cd-drive to respond', but still, in the >end, it wouldn't work. >I'm using a pretty standard setup, with matrox, 64megs, >etc. my question is, has anyone else run into this problem >before? I think there is some little thing I'm leaving >out, and thought I would ask! >If anyone has any ideas, would you please post them? >I will read them tomorrow when I get back online. > The usually recommended way to install from atapi cd-rom is to have it jumpered as slave to your hard disk on the first ide channel on your mb. When installing drivers, use the beta driver for the Adaptec 1542B SCSI controller as the controller for your cd, and the beta driver for EIDE for you hard drive. NS "should" then register your cd-rom and allow you to install. (Note I say "should"; although I have seen other posts to this effect, I have always used SCSI cd-roms myself.) Hope this helps, Jeff
From: David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 14 Sep 1998 10:01:16 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6tiphc$s0o$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: > psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > I still consider David's post a fairly cheap snipe in a licensing > discussing - it is not related to licensing, just to OS quality (go I really wasn't trying to hit on OS quality. I am truely curious about how one would rebuild Linux from scratch. A few times I have wanted to see part of the RH source, but found it a maze of stuff to weed thru. I've asked the local Linux users I know of in the CS department, and non knew any more than I did. Parts of my post was not related to licensing, but I still consider that parts are. I know many, many Linux users that use GNU/Linux over other OS's because the code is under GPL. However, I know very,very,very few of them that have acutally read any of the source code. Thus all they care about is a free binary release that they can do anything with. Thus I'm wondering why so many are so in love with the GPL, when most Linux users I know would be just as happy if some company made "propriatary" mods to GNU/Linux and only provided the binaries for free (ie, no $$ and no restructions on use). -- David
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: gpeters@staff.pulteney.sa.SPAM.au (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:36:55 +0930 Message-ID: <1dfcvjz.1auw1vf1tkjagrN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6t44jn$71p1@is1.network.fedex.com> Organization: Quantum Education Developments Mike T. Miller <mtm@blackbird.c2d.fedex.com> wrote: > On Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:31:59 +0100, Adrian Jackson > <adrianj@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote: > >Sounds more like Life of Brian to me. > > > ><life TYPE = "Brian"> > >Yes, but apart from Acorns, Amigas, Ataris and Apples, what > >computers beginning with A have the Romans ever provided for > >us? > > > >Well, there's Amstrads. > ></life> > Let's not forget their venerable grandfather, the Altair. Altair? Oh, SHUDDUP! (sorry, had to complete the sketch properly :-)) "'E's makin' it up as 'e goes along!" You lot are bleedin' barmy, 'swot I reckon! Geoffrey -- ----------------gpeters-@-staff.pulteney.sa.edu.au---------------- -- SPAM Education Technologist, Pulteney Grammar School, Inc. SPAM || Disclaimer: What I say may - or may not be - the truth. || edu "Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive." edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: gpeters@staff.pulteney.sa.SPAM.au (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:36:56 +0930 Message-ID: <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> Organization: Quantum Education Developments Paul Miller <paul@elastic.avid.com> wrote: > jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: > > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, > >namely: it's all written in C++. That excreble language has killed > >more projects than I care to imagine. > > It's also made at least several projects I'm aware of possible at all. > > However, unless it has a good component object model an OS is no place > for C++. Spoken like a true programmer. So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) Geoffrey -- ----------------gpeters-@-staff.pulteney.sa.edu.au---------------- -- SPAM Education Technologist, Pulteney Grammar School, Inc. SPAM || Disclaimer: What I say may - or may not be - the truth. || edu "Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive." edu
Message-ID: <35FCF534.125CD75B@minds-eye.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:51:32 +0100 From: Paul Firth <paul@minds-eye.net> Organization: Minds Eye Productions MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoffrey Peters wrote: > Paul Miller <paul@elastic.avid.com> wrote: > > > jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: > > > > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, > > >namely: it's all written in C++. That excreble language has killed > > >more projects than I care to imagine. > > > > It's also made at least several projects I'm aware of possible at all. > > > > However, unless it has a good component object model an OS is no place > > for C++. > > Spoken like a true programmer. > > So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) C with a hint of assembler just in the right places makes for adeleciously tasty OS. Add a bit a Java and some distributed multiprocessing source and you've got a cracking recipe. -- --------------------------------- Cheers, Paul (paul@minds-eye.net) --------------------------------- Will there be T.P ?
From: jayfar@netaxs.com (Jayfar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:28:50 -0400 Organization: Jayfar's Original Virtual Macintosh Message-ID: <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> Mail-Copies-To: jayfar@netaxs.com In article <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au>, gpeters@staff.pulteney.sa.SPAM.au (Geoffrey Peters) wrote: | Paul Miller <paul@elastic.avid.com> wrote: | | > jcr.remove@this.phrase.idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: | > | > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, | > >namely: it's all written in C++. That excreble language has killed | > >more projects than I care to imagine. | > | > It's also made at least several projects I'm aware of possible at all. | > | > However, unless it has a good component object model an OS is no place | > for C++. | | Spoken like a true programmer. | | So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) Forth, of course. Cheers, Jayfar -- Jay Farrell Jayfar's Original Virtual Macintosh jayfar@netaxs.com * Your Favorite Mac Site * Now Updated Daily * Philadelphia, USA <URL:http://www.netaxs.com/~jayfar/live.desk.html> Jayfar's APPLE DOOMSDAY CLOCK <URL:http://www.netaxs.com/~jayfar/>
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 14 Sep 1998 10:19:21 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6tjc5p$5ie$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6sqifj$5rs$1@Mars.mcs.net> <6t06j1$leh@graves.maths.tcd.ie> <35FBCBB2.5B5C4F77@forsee.tcp.co.uk> In article <35FBCBB2.5B5C4F77@forsee.tcp.co.uk>, Robert Forsyth <bobbyr@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: >I know a graphic artist who designed fonts, but someone would come along >and alter a serif and call it his own font... Needless to say, this >graphic artist doesn't do fonts anymore. Fonts are a special case in the copyright system - you can trademark the name, but you can't protect the shape. Personally I think the world would get along just fine if everyone quit designing new font shapes. On the other hand, I think much of the popularity of MS-windows and Macs vs. X based machines has to do with the effort put into making fonts render cleanly on VGA resolution displays. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: "Karl Lherisson" <karl@nospam.northstar.com> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Setting up an Exabyte 4200c Rev 235? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:29:28 -0400 Message-ID: <35fd3688.0@reliant> I need some help setting up an Exabyte EXB-4200c Rev 235 4mm tape drive on a Black NeXTstation Color Turbo running NeXTstep 3.3? First are there any hardware configuration files i need to modify? Secondly, I am trying a local dump using the following paramaters dump 0 / f /dev/rst0 It appears to access the tape drive but it never works correctly. What am I doing wrong? karl@northstar.com
From: Benne <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fido.ger.next Subject: HP Deskjet 540 driver for Openstep 4.2 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:58:44 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <35FD3D34.A767B78E@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I just have a short question: Does anyone know if there is a freeware driver available for the HP 540 Deskjet for Openstep 4.2. The JetPilot is not free isn't it? Answers please to: bgreiner@gmx.de Thank you for your help Benjamin
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 14 Sep 1998 09:41:57 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6tiphc$s0o$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> wrote: >I really wasn't trying to hit on OS quality. I am truely curious about >how one would rebuild Linux from scratch. Linux is not a distribution. Linux is the kernel. Thus the analog of something like FreeBSD, which is a distribution, is Red Hat or Debian, not Linux. So you'd have to ask how to build Red Hat or Debian from scratch. While the details differ, the "package-oriented" distributions generally have a command for building a single package from source and installing the result -- packages have interdepencies that can be reflected in a Makefile or by other means. This means that the equivalent of "make world" isn't that hard to write, or else (depending on the distribution) already exists. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEzA9x5.Fr9@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com> <6ti8hp$lsi$1@Venus.mcs.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:00:41 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >In article <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com>, >Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >>les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >> >>> And the insanity of the GPL is that I have the right >>>to have and use that code on any machine where I want it. I just >>>can't get it already working and included as a component of something >>>else. >> >>Demonstrably false. Buy a Whistle Interjet (now there's a good idea :-). >To the extent that the same thing is available for free it seems >like a mistake to pay for it. If parts are not free, doesn't that >argue against what you are trying to accomplish with the GPL? But that has nothing to do with the fact that your original assertion "..can't get it <GPL code> already working and included as a component of something else" is false. Whistle do exactly that, and are very successful at it. Whether the Interjet is targeted at the kind of user who posts in these groups is very questionable. Almost certainly *you* could build something cheaper yourself, you are not the kind of user who is the target market for the Interjet. But then again you're not the target user for MS-Windows either :-). Whether this "argue(s) against what you are trying to accomplish with the GPL" is irrelevent (I don't believe it does BTW, as the source for Samba on the Interjet is freely available). You made an assertion about the GPL that was false so I provided a real world counterexample :-). Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: far_no@spam.ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 14 Sep 1998 17:04:48 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <6tjibg$2tb@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <6tiphc$s0o$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> In article <6tiphc$s0o$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> writes: >In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> wrote: >> psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > >> I still consider David's post a fairly cheap snipe in a licensing >> discussing - it is not related to licensing, just to OS quality (go > >I really wasn't trying to hit on OS quality. I am truely curious about >how one would rebuild Linux from scratch. A few times I have wanted to >see part of the RH source, but found it a maze of stuff to weed thru. >I've asked the local Linux users I know of in the CS department, and non >knew any more than I did. > Given that an OS is more than just a kernel why would you expect OS source meant for more than a microcontroller to be anything but a maze? But to answer the other question. I've actually built a Linux system from the ground up using nothing but Net available sources. I kept detailed notes regarding the build process. The only thing I encountered which was not obvious to a knowledgeable programmer was the building of glibc, gcc and the C++ libs. I had to make various other minor adjustments here and there, but for the most part everything just configures, builds and compiles. That said, the task as a whole is complex and time consuming even for a knowledgeable person the first time thru. But given my notes and the configured source tree I have, it wouldn't be all that difficult to automate the build process so that you could build from top to bottom. > >Parts of my post was not related to licensing, but I still consider that >parts are. I know many, many Linux users that use GNU/Linux over other >OS's because the code is under GPL. However, I know very,very,very few >of them that have acutally read any of the source code. > Your assumption seems to be that just because most have never read the source there is no need for the source. What you forget is that there are various bugs in NS/OS which were never fixed. And because the source is not available fixing the problems is difficult for anyone even if they have the knowledge and desire to do so. The problem is all the more pronounced at the OS layer. Since it's a lot easier to change word processors than it is to change OS's. >Thus all they care about is a free binary release that they can do >anything with. Thus I'm wondering why so many are so in love with the >GPL, when most Linux users I know would be just as happy if some company >made "propriatary" mods to GNU/Linux and only provided the binaries for >free (ie, no $$ and no restructions on use). > >-- David Without the GPL there is no incentive to release one's changes since anything you release can then be included by your competitors into their closed proprietary products which compete against yours. And so you end up with multiple similar but incompatible products. Can anyone say UNIX? With the GPL a company like NeXT can donate the rights to Objective-C to the FSF. They get a writeoff and are assured that they also will benefit from third party enhancements. In other words they are protected against a competitor just taking their otherwise free source and using it as a base upon which to build a closed competing product. -- Felipe A. Rodriguez # Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan from Agoura Hills, CA # being a private citizen because he was # armed; his successors, since they avoided far@ix.netcom.com # the inconveniences of arms, became private (NeXTmail preferred) # citizens after having been dukes. (MIMEmail welcome) # --Nicolo Machiavelli
From: Daniel Pead <dan@octpen.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:51:44 +0100 Organization: October Pen Message-ID: <oFt3BAAQuT$1Ewgf@octpen.demon.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6t44jn$71p1@is1.network.fedex.com> <1dfcvjz.1auw1vf1tkjagrN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <1dfcvjz.1auw1vf1tkjagrN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au>, Geoffrey Peters <gpeters@staff.pulteney.sa.SPAM.au> writes >> Let's not forget their venerable grandfather, the Altair. > >Altair? Oh, SHUDDUP! AIM65... ... and I'm pretty sure that there was an Adam... -- Daniel Pead Email: dan@octpen.demon.co.uk WWW: http://www.octpen.demon.co.uk/
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 14 Sep 1998 13:37:12 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6tjnoo$12f$1@Venus.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com> <6ti8hp$lsi$1@Venus.mcs.net> <jeremyEzA9x5.Fr9@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEzA9x5.Fr9@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > >>In article <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com>, >>Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >>>> And the insanity of the GPL is that I have the right >>>>to have and use that code on any machine where I want it. I just >>>>can't get it already working and included as a component of something >>>>else. >>> >>>Demonstrably false. Buy a Whistle Interjet (now there's a good idea :-). > >>To the extent that the same thing is available for free it seems >>like a mistake to pay for it. If parts are not free, doesn't that >>argue against what you are trying to accomplish with the GPL? > >But that has nothing to do with the fact that your >original assertion "..can't get it <GPL code> already working >and included as a component of something else" is >false. I guess that depends on what the 'something else' is. >Whether this "argue(s) against what you are trying to accomplish >with the GPL" is irrelevent (I don't believe it does BTW, as the >source for Samba on the Interjet is freely available). You >made an assertion about the GPL that was false so I provided a >real world counterexample :-). It is only false to the extent the owners are willing to give up their rights to the 'something else' involved. Can I get a version of samba running over OSI to replace the old AT&T StarGroup server? Anything with SNA or DECnet embedded (where you access more than the usual interfaces)? Did Novell expose their NDS services by linking to samba? Did they make it a full replacement for their normal server? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: jeremy@netcom.com (Jeremy Allison) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Message-ID: <jeremyEzAJ4B.xI@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com> <6ti8hp$lsi$1@Venus.mcs.net> <jeremyEzA9x5.Fr9@netcom.com> <6tjnoo$12f$1@Venus.mcs.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:19:23 GMT Sender: jeremy@netcom13.netcom.com les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: >It is only false to the extent the owners are willing to give up >their rights to the 'something else' involved. *What* rights ? To Samba ? They don't own it - the Copyright holders do. Samba claims no rights to the "something else" involved. Whistle don't have to ship source to all proprietary code not related to Samba just because they ship Samba as a component. > Can I get a >version of samba running over OSI to replace the old AT&T StarGroup >server? Anything with SNA or DECnet embedded (where you access more >than the usual interfaces)? Did Novell expose their NDS services >by linking to samba? Did they make it a full replacement for their >normal server? What does this have to do with anything. You can't get a version of Samba that runs over OSI as there is no defined transport for SMB over OSI (as far as I know) - plus, no-one has done the work. Same for DECnet or SNA. If you want it - write it. Novell didn't expose any NDS services by running Samba as an NLM. They didn't make it a full replacement for their server as the were positionining it as a migration tool *back* to their normal server. Cheers, Jeremy Allison, Samba Team.
From: antoine_RemoveThisFromAdress_@arrakis.RemoveThisFromAdress.osd.ulaval.ca (Antoine Gautier) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Setting up an Exabyte 4200c Rev 235? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <35fd3688.0@reliant> Message-ID: <iwdL1.27$_L3.283612@carnaval.risq.qc.ca> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:46:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:46:38 EDT In <35fd3688.0@reliant> "Karl Lherisson" wrote: % I need some help setting up an Exabyte EXB-4200c Rev 235 4mm tape drive on a % Black NeXTstation Color Turbo running NeXTstep 3.3? % % First are there any hardware configuration files i need to modify? % % Secondly, % % I am trying a local dump using the following paramaters % % dump 0 / f /dev/rst0 % % It appears to access the tape drive but it never works correctly. What am I % doing wrong? % % karl@northstar.com There is something special about exagyte tape lentgh, I use dump 0uns 1200000 Can't remember where I found that, I guess librarian or nextanswers will tell you. Also, exabyte is /dev/(n)rxt0. Cheers, ---- Antoine Gautier
From: "Rob Campbell" <rjc@genrad.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:44:51 -0400 Organization: GenRad, Inc. Message-ID: <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> Jayfar wrote in message ... >| > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, >| > >namely: it's all written in C++. >| Spoken like a true programmer. >| >| So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) > >Forth, of course. Prolog
From: Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:18:25 -0400 Organization: RB & Associates Message-ID: <35FD8821.1F1B@erols.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob Campbell wrote: > > Jayfar wrote in message ... > >| > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, > >| > >namely: it's all written in C++. > >| Spoken like a true programmer. > >| > >| So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) > > > >Forth, of course. > > Prolog Somebody call Frankie Howerd. -- "Since when was genius found respectable?" E. B. Browning
Date: 14 Sep 1998 16:16:39 EST Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <cancel.13094324485861376@ndgptofc.com> Control: cancel <13094324485861376@ndgptofc.com> From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca Sender: boosterat@ndgptofc.com Subject: cmsg cancel <13094324485861376@ndgptofc.com> EMP/ECP (aka SPAM) cancelled by clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce, report 19980914.03 for further details
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fido.ger.next From: Ingmar Camphausen <ingmar@aurora.in-berlin.de> Subject: Re: HP Deskjet 540 driver for Openstep 4.2 Message-ID: <1998Sep14.215255.25426@aurora.in-berlin.de> Followup-To: de.comp.sys.next Sender: ingmar@aurora.in-berlin.de (Ingmar Camphausen) Organization: INDIVIDUAL NETWORK Berlin References: <35FD3D34.A767B78E@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:52:55 GMT In de.comp.sys.next Benne <mikego@geocities.com> wrote: : I just have a short question: Does anyone know if there is a freeware : driver available for the HP 540 Deskjet for Openstep 4.2. : The JetPilot is not free isn't it? : Answers please to: bgreiner@gmx.de [Sorry, but you asked via Usenet, so you'll have to look for the answer in the News...] [Follow-up changed to one group only - de.comp.sys.next] You might want to try "Dots" or GhostScript. (I don't know whether Dots is Freeware, though.) Ingmar __ __ \_V_/ ___Y___ +-----------+ |\__/. .\ Ingmar Camphausen | USE PGP! |\ O---m /| \ \_____/| ingmar@in-berlin.de | (key via server |/`-------'\| \_U__////_/ (NeXTmail/MIME OK!) | or on request) +-----------+ -- Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 15 Sep 1998 01:53:11 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6tkha7$j9v@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6tiphc$s0o$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: >>I really wasn't trying to hit on OS quality. I am truely curious about >>how one would rebuild Linux from scratch. >Linux is not a distribution. Linux is the kernel. Thus the analog of >something like FreeBSD, which is a distribution, is Red Hat or Debian, >not Linux. This is incorrect. FreeBSD is _both_ a kernel _and_ a distribution. Specifically, I can rebuild my FreeBSD kernel without affecting the rest of the system. I do this every time I install a new version of FreeBSD. Rebuilding the kernel reduces memory overhead and reduces the time it takes to reboot. If I install FreeBSD on a machine without a tape drive, I don't see the point of probing for a tape drive every time I reboot. I avoid that by editing the configuration files and rebuilding the kernel. I think that was the original question: How often do Linux users rebuild the Linux _kernel_ with a modified configuration? Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: sabell@argonet.co.uk (Stuart Bell) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:40:37 +0100 Organization: himself, and him alone. Message-ID: <1dfde4o.q0rf6r10c98zkN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> <35FD8821.1F1B@erols.com> Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> wrote: > Somebody call Frankie Howerd Call him what? -- Stuart Bell writing from a Wintel-free zone.
From: sabell@argonet.co.uk (Stuart Bell) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:40:38 +0100 Organization: himself, and him alone. Message-ID: <1dfde5y.8wnd631gord2N@usern003.uk.uudial.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <487BDD4C5F%polaris@ursaminr.demon.com.uk> <35F53FDF.142@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6t44jn$71p1@is1.network.fedex.com> <1dfcvjz.1auw1vf1tkjagrN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <oFt3BAAQuT$1Ewgf@octpen.demon.co.uk> Daniel Pead <dan@octpen.demon.co.uk> wrote: > AIM65... remember it well. > > ... and I'm pretty sure that there was an Adam... Adam Coleco, or something similar, ISTR. To say nothing of the Exidy Sorceror - why don't computers these days have interesting names? None does - apart from iMac! And Phoebe. ;-) -- Stuart Bell writing from a Wintel-free zone.
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 15 Sep 1998 00:56:10 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6tkvhq$4gq$1@Mars.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEzA9x5.Fr9@netcom.com> <6tjnoo$12f$1@Venus.mcs.net> <jeremyEzAJ4B.xI@netcom.com> In article <jeremyEzAJ4B.xI@netcom.com>, Jeremy Allison <jeremy@netcom.com> wrote: >les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > >>It is only false to the extent the owners are willing to give up >>their rights to the 'something else' involved. > >*What* rights ? To Samba ? They don't own it - the Copyright >holders do. Samba claims no rights to the "something else" >involved. Whistle don't have to ship source to all proprietary >code not related to Samba just because they ship Samba as a >component. I'm talking about 3rd party additions which may consist of their own copyrighted code and may need to be linked to obtain the desired functionality. >> Can I get a >>version of samba running over OSI to replace the old AT&T StarGroup >>server? Anything with SNA or DECnet embedded (where you access more >>than the usual interfaces)? Did Novell expose their NDS services >>by linking to samba? Did they make it a full replacement for their >>normal server? > >What does this have to do with anything. You can't get >a version of Samba that runs over OSI as there is no defined >transport for SMB over OSI (as far as I know) - plus, no-one has >done the work. Same for DECnet or SNA. If you want it - write it. AT&T's StarGroup actually ran SMB over OSI a long time before it ran over TCP. I think it was called the StarLan DOS server back in the old days. Basically the same functionality as samba with a nicer control interface somewhere around 1986 with a DOS stack a little smaller than TCP. They even had a stack that would drop into Windows for WorkGroups when that came around. Eventually they added TCP and could run both protocols at once except for their StarMail transport which had to be set up one way or the other. >Novell didn't expose any NDS services by running Samba as an >NLM. They didn't make it a full replacement for their server >as the were positionining it as a migration tool >*back* to their normal server. As you might expect under the circumstances. Too bad they couldn't use it to be a full substitute for netware services or at least embed netbios functionality in their servers to the extent that Microsoft has put IPX as the preferred transport into theirs. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 15 Sep 1998 11:38:25 +0200 Organization: University of Dortmund Sender: schwab@issan Message-ID: <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6tiphc$s0o$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6tkha7$j9v@lace.colorado.edu> fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: |> In article <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com>, Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: |> >>I really wasn't trying to hit on OS quality. I am truely curious about |> >>how one would rebuild Linux from scratch. |> |> >Linux is not a distribution. Linux is the kernel. Thus the analog of |> >something like FreeBSD, which is a distribution, is Red Hat or Debian, |> >not Linux. |> |> This is incorrect. FreeBSD is _both_ a kernel _and_ a distribution. Of course, Red Hat and Debian both come with the Linux kernel. Your point is? -- Andreas Schwab "And now for something schwab@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de completely different" schwab@gnu.org
From: a9226931 <a9226931@unet.univie.ac.at> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fido.ger.next Subject: Re: NE2000 Networkcard drivers for Openstep Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:15:47 +0200 Organization: Vienna University, Austria Message-ID: <35FD7973.93766D18@unet.univie.ac.at> References: <35FBE3D8.FC80DF16@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 1998 10:11:53 GMT To: bgreiner@gmx.de Ja es gibt sie: Sie im peanuts-archiv nach. ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/peanuts/NEXTSTEP/system/driver/ethernet/ um genau zu sein. Hab's ausprobiert, es klappt.Sind NS3.3 Treiber.Das sollte aber keinen Unterschied machen, das DriverKit ist dassselbe. Christian Benesch Benne wrote: > Hello, > I just wanted to ask, if there are any NE2000 compatible networkadapter > driver for Openstep 4.2 available? If yes, where can I get the drivers? > Answers per e-mail to: bgreiner@gmx.de > Thank you > > Hallo, > ich wollte nur einmal fragen, ob von Openstep 4.2 NE2000 kompatible > Netzwerkkarten unterstützt werden und wenn ja, wo bekomme ich die > Treiber? > Antwort bitte per Mail an: bgreiner@gmx.de > Danke. > > Benjamin >
From: torbenm@diku.dk (Torben AEgidius Mogensen) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 15 Sep 1998 12:27:49 +0200 Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen Message-ID: <6tlff5$gu8@grimer.diku.dk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 1998 10:27:49 GMT "Rob Campbell" <rjc@genrad.com> writes: >Jayfar wrote in message ... >>| > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, >>| > >namely: it's all written in C++. >>| Spoken like a true programmer. >>| >>| So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) >> >>Forth, of course. >Prolog For all it's worth, Prolog isn't suited for writing OS's. I think SML with the Fox-project extensions (mainly bit fiddling and support for memory-mapped i/o) would do nicely, though. Using region-based memory management rather than GC, of course. Torben Mogensen (torbenm@diku.dk)
From: Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:47:23 -0400 Organization: RB & Associates Message-ID: <35FE53CB.707B@erols.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> <35FD8821.1F1B@erols.com> <1dfde4o.q0rf6r10c98zkN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stuart Bell wrote: > > Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> wrote: > > > Somebody call Frankie Howerd > > Call him what? If memory serves it was Lurcio, slave to Ludicrous Sextus the Senator. It was some time ago, but it was the Prolog that reminded me. Bob > -- > Stuart Bell > writing from a Wintel-free zone. -- "Since when was genius found respectable?" E. B. Browning
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:23:57 +0930 Message-ID: <1dfeh34.15x6pbs1dnfcr9N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> Organization: Quantic Education Development Jayfar <jayfar@netaxs.com> wrote: > gpeters@staff.pulteney.sa.SPAM.au (Geoffrey Peters) wrote: >> Paul Miller <paul@elastic.avid.com> wrote: >>> However, unless it has a good component object model an OS is no >>> place for C++. >>Spoken like a true programmer. >>So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) > Forth, of course. Ahh, a man after mine own sensibilities! Geoffrey (is it just me, or has this entire multi-thread got just a *teensy* bit silly?) -- ----------------gpeters-@-staff.pulteney.sa.edu.au---------------- -- SPAM Education Technologist, Pulteney Grammar School, Inc. SPAM || Disclaimer: What I say may - or may not be - the truth. || edu "Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive." edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:23:53 +0930 Message-ID: <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> Organization: Quantic Education Development Jason <not@this.address> wrote: > <snip> > > > http://www.MacKiDo.com/Interface/ui_history.html > About > Contacts Apple did not Rip-off its UI from Xerox This would have looked better if it had been tidied up first! Thankfully, you gave the URL so we could read it ourselves in a non-munged format. As a note to the story, an interesting tidbit. Did you know, that Bill Gates' first major sale was "Apple Floating Point BASIC" for the Apple II computer? Applesoft, as it became known as, has *large* amounts of code in it "lifted" from Apple's "Integer BASIC". It was such a hit, it got burnt into every ROM of every new Apple II, //e, //c and IIgs. Of course, Bill got a royalty for every copy. There you go: Apple Computer is responsible for giving Bill the Third his most important financial leg-up. Pity his "Microsoft Olympics" was such a crock :-) Geoffrey -- ----------------gpeters-@-staff.pulteney.sa.edu.au---------------- -- SPAM Education Technologist, Pulteney Grammar School, Inc. SPAM || Disclaimer: What I say may - or may not be - the truth. || edu "Alcohol and calculus don't mix. Never drink and derive." edu
From: sabell@argonet.co.uk (Stuart Bell) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:49:12 +0100 Organization: himself, and him alone. Message-ID: <1dfegky.1vipk1ntuvzqdN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> <35FD8821.1F1B@erols.com> <1dfde4o.q0rf6r10c98zkN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> <35FE53CB.707B@erols.com> Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> wrote: > If memory serves it was Lurcio, slave to Ludicrous Sextus > the Senator. It was some time ago, but it was the Prolog > that reminded me. What a fine memory you have! A TV comedy in the fine traditions of 'Carry on. . . .' complete with buxom wenches and a sooth-sayer intoning, 'Woe, woe and thrice woe'. Not, I think, one of the pearls of 1970s TV comedy. ;-) -- Stuart Bell writing from a Wintel-free zone.
From: Barry O'Neill <boneil@cableinet.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:06:58 +0000 Organization: PSD Graphics Message-ID: <35FEC8E2.7F344099@cableinet.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> <35FD8821.1F1B@erols.com> <1dfde4o.q0rf6r10c98zkN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 1998 20:36:29 GMT Stuart Bell wrote: > > Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> wrote: > > > Somebody call Frankie Howerd > > Call him what? Call him back from the dead, presumably. regards, Barry -- Using Linux 2.0.35 with RedHat 5.1 "If Linux is like driving with the top down, Windows is like driving with the wheels off." - Me, 1998
From: Benne <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fido.ger.next Subject: GhostScript Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:09:16 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hallo, ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erklären kann, was ich tun muß, damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskjet unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu und daher kenne ich mich noch nicht so gut aus und verstehe die englische Anleitung nicht ganz. Es wäre sehr nett, wenn mir jemand auf deutsch eine Schritt-für-Schritt Anleitung geben könnte. email: bgreiner@gmx.de Danke, Benjamin
From: Marcel Volkerts <VOLKERTS@KVI.NL> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,de.comp.sys.next,fido.ger.next Subject: Re: GhostScript Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:55:49 +0100 Organization: KVI Message-ID: <35FF8B25.7138D74A@KVI.NL> References: <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Benne wrote: > = > Hallo, > = > ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erkl=E4re= n > kann, was ich tun mu=DF, damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskje= t > unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu > und daher kenne ich mich noch nicht so gut aus und verstehe die > englische Anleitung nicht ganz. > Es w=E4re sehr nett, wenn mir jemand auf deutsch eine Schritt-f=FCr-Sch= ritt > Anleitung geben k=F6nnte. > email: bgreiner@gmx.de > = > Danke, > Benjamin Mag het ook in het Nederlands? Marcel
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 16 Sep 1998 10:33:05 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p567eoxh3y.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tmmdf$k21$1@flea.best.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Sep 1998 14:33:06 GMT %% dillon@best.net (Matt Dillon) writes: md> Nobody owns or controls FreeBSD, not even the FreeBSD group. Of course. That's part of what I meant by "What if...". -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GhostScript Date: 16 Sep 1998 14:33:24 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Message-ID: <6toi7k$nm1$1@unlnews.unl.edu> References: <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> In article <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Benne <mikego@geocities.com> writes: > ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erkl ren > kann, was ich tun mu , damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskjet > unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu I'm going to GUESS (-; this is a question on how to get/use Ghostscript to use an HP Deskjet printer under NEXTSTEP/OpenStep. I've built a package called GSPrintFilter that uses ghostscript to be able to print to a variety of printers, including most HP Deskjets. It's available at peak. for GSPrintFilter http://www.peak.org/next/apps/utils/printer/ for ghostscript http://www.peak.org/next/apps/graphics/postscript/ p.s. I'll be uploading a newer version (1.40) of GSPrintFilter soon that fixes a few small bugs. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: vmpydxnl@somethingfunny.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: WOW!!! WHAT A STORY ONLINE!!! Date: 16 Sep 1998 18:25:45 GMT Organization: Northwestern Indiana Telephone Co. Message-ID: <6tovr9$hcv$367@hyperion.nitco.com> I happen to have dropped by http://www.despotovic.net and I couldn't believe what I saw. A complete case online with over 48 pictures, 3 police reports and more!!! Regards. P.S.- The website address is http://www.despotovic.net
From: abcd@fghilm.no (ll99) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: interesting report : cybersnare (many KBs) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:07:29 GMT Organization: TIN Message-ID: <36090e72.7126355@news.tin.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CyberSnare by Roberto Di Cosmo Contents Introduction Chests of drawers and brainwashing An information tax The characteristics of software Manufacturers ambushed The Land of TechnoCretins... ... is closer than you think Dubious practices Getting around the law A look at the possible future of education The stakes: controlling the information An opportunity for Europe and employment A possible alternative: freely accessible software In conclusion Acknowledgements Copyright Notice End Notes References During the last Christmas holidays, I was once again struck by the growing fascination of the media with the obscure object of desire hidden behind the words "computer", "multimedia", "web", "Internet", and the like. According to the media--as well as scores of self-appointed experts--one is a second-class citizen unless one possesses the latest (and most expensive) computer equipment to access the Promised Land of "cyberspace". It is also hard to ignore the strange and ubiquitous notion that there is only one kind of computer: a PC with "Intel Inside" running one unavoidable piece of software: Microsoft Windows. ( 1 ) This is all the more peculiar considering that this intellectual bowing to two American giants is reaching its peak just as the US seems to be emerging from a long sleep that allowed Intel and Microsoft to attain an almost total monopoly. In the process, an impressive number of companies, whose products were far superior, were destroyed. All this is thoroughly documented in several books available in the US, such as [1], [2], and [3] . For instance, I am thinking of the campaign started by Ralph Nader (the renowned consumer advocate who once succeeded in forcing GM to stop producing one of their vehicles deemed unsafe), as well as the suit the US Department of Justice has filed against Microsoft. I am especially thinking of the surprising reaction of the American public to recent polls on the Internet: an overwhelming majority is in favor of the DoJ's actions, even when the polls are conducted by companies like CNN who are predominantly pro-Microsoft in their articles. (CNN [4] and even ZDnet polls [5]; the latter was arbitrarily stopped at a certain date which was displayed on the page only after many letters of complaint.) On the other hand, the French public is far from waking up. Lulled by the sweet voice of global conformism, it sleeps more and more soundly in the arms of Microsoft. People are dreaming of a joyful world in which a great philanthropist distributes free copies of Windows 95 to school children, with the only intention of helping them overcome their technological lag. They smile as they think of blue screens filled with reassuring messages explaining how a particular program caused a certain exception in a specific module--not because of Windows, of course, but due to an error in the program itself. They sleep soundly without wondering why a computer much more powerful than the one that helped send men safely to the moon and back, is not capable of properly handling a document of a few hundred pages when it is running Microsoft Office, the favorite product of the pundits. Chests of drawers and brainwashing On several occasions, I have witnessed the depth of this hypnotic trance. The most amusing example occurred while travelling on a high-speed train some time ago. Laptops (those embryonic computers which cost as much as a small car, can be carried around in one's briefcase, and are frequently used for playing Solitaire) are proliferating these days--almost as much as mobile telephones, particularly on trains and in airplanes. During one of my trips, I was seated next to a very nice gentleman, a dynamic young executive, who was running the catastrophic (we shall soon see why) application Defrag on his computer. This program displays a pretty matrix filled with squares of various colors that scuttle hither and thither while the hard disk works overtime. I could not resist the temptation (I hope this gentleman will forgive me should he recognize himself in this story); after complimenting him on his fine laptop, I asked him with feigned ignorance what this beautiful software was that I did not have on my own machine. With an expression combining condescension and pity, ("The poor man doesn't have this beautiful program!"), he answered that it was an important utility one needed to run once in a while "to make the machine go faster" by "defragmenting" the disk. He went on to recite the words from the Windows user manual by heart: the more the disk is being used, the more it becomes "fragmented". The more the disk is fragmented, the slower the machine runs. That is why he dutifully uses Defrag every time he gets the chance. At this point, I took out my own laptop computer, which is not running Windows but GNU/Linux (an open and very powerful version of UNIX available for free and developed through the joint efforts of thousands of people on the Internet). Sounding very surprised, I said that all this puzzled me a great deal. On my laptop, the disk is barely fragmented, and the more I use it, the less fragmented it is. Our young executive, less comfortable now, replied that his laptop was running the latest version of Windows 95, produced by the greatest software company on the planet, and that I had to be wrong in some way. I then tried to make him forget the propaganda that had intoxicated him thus far by explaining the fragmentation problem in a simple way. What follows is a short summary of a pleasurable conversation that lasted over half an hour. You probably know that your data is saved as "files" memorized on the hard disk of the computer. This hard disk is like a gigantic chest of drawers; each drawer has the same storage capacity (typically, 512 bytes ( 2 )). Nowadays, each disk contains a few million drawers. If the data you want is stored in contiguous drawers, it can be accessed faster than if it is spread out (or "fragmented") all over the chest. There is nothing amazing about this; we experience it every day when we have to find a pair of matching socks: it is much faster if they are both in the same drawer. We can therefore agree that a tidy chest of drawers is more convenient than a messy one. The problem is finding a way to keep the chest arranged neatly when it is used. Let us now imagine an administration that keeps its folders in an enormous filing cabinet with millions of drawers. For the reasons mentioned above, we would like items pertaining to the same file to be stored in contiguous drawers. You now need to hire a secretary, and two candidates apply for the job, each with their own way of working. The first candidate just empties the drawers when a file is removed, splits up any new file into smaller piles of documents the size of a drawer, and randomly stuffs each pile into the first available empty drawer. When you mention that this makes it rather difficult to find all the files belonging to a particular case, the response is that a dozen boys must be hired every weekend to put the chest back in order. Instead, the second secretary maintains a list of contiguous empty drawers; every time a file is closed and removed from the drawers, the list is updated. When a new file arrives, the list is searched for a sufficiently long row of empty, contiguous drawers, and that is where the new file is placed. In this way, provided there is enough activity, the file cabinet is always tidy. Without a doubt, it is the second secretary who should get the job, and our young executive very much agreed. At this point, it was an easy matter to point out to him that Windows 95 was acting like the first secretary who needed boys to clean up the cabinet (the Defrag program), while GNU/Linux, acting like the smart secretary, had no need for them. By the time the train entered the station, our nice gentleman was not so happy any more: he had been taught that Defrag "makes the machine go faster", while we had just seen together that it is more accurate to say that Windows is slowing it down! In fact, the problem of efficient disk management is quite old, and we have known for a long time how to deal with it (UNIX is much older than Microsoft, and it has had the "smart secretary" since 1984!). However, there is much worse than Defrag. Unfortunately, we do not have the time to relate all the juicy details that concern it in this space, but the Scandisk software, which is supposed to repair disks, presents unintelligible choices, the result of which is too often the downright destruction of the folder structure, even though the data would have been recoverable before running the program. Not only is this impossible under UNIX, unless you crush the disk with a hammer, but proper disk management methods have been part of basic courses in computer science for the last decade. The mere existence of a program like Defrag, or worse, the damages produced by one like Scandisk in Windows 95, ought to be enough reason for any intelligent IT manager to scratch Microsoft's name from his or her list of suppliers. But no, the brainwashing has been so effective, the sleep so deep, that in France we are ready to shift our banking systems over to Microsoft products and even choose them for the education of our children. The marketing power of certain companies distorts reality to such an extent that one is led to firmly believe that the serious defects of some software products are, in fact, the latest must-have functionality. (Incidentally, the computer world has a fitting expression for this: "it's not a bug, it's a feature!"). Another part of the problem is that the specialists who have the knowledge necessary to undo these traps and point out the dangers and manipulations without being mistaken for "bashers" or, in the case of competitors, sore losers, have kept their mouths shut for too long. It is a strange phenomenon: on one hand, no serious-minded scientist wants to publish an article in today's so-called computer press, lest his reputation become tarnished for having mingled with hucksters. On the other hand, without the support of serious scientists, the computer press has become a questionable mirror of the computer industry's advertising campaigns, and thus, even more peddler-like and less likely to be approached by real experts. An information tax Even so, the Wintel monopoly that is settling in France and other parts of the world is so extensive--and not only economically--that one cannot remain silent any longer, no matter what the circumstances. The issue is not only accepting to live with bad technologies and disregarding that we could have much better ones; this has already happened many times, for example with VHS killing Video2000 and Betamax, both of which were of much higher quality ( 3 ). It is also about our governments accepting a takeover of information by, and for the sole benefit of, Microsoft and Intel. I am sure that those of you who have some knowledge of economics can already see what I am getting at: for several years, this monopoly has managed to impose a true monopolistic tax , i.e., to exploit the monopolist's power to sell at inflated prices, thus milking consumers who are forced to buy in one place only. And this tax is truly enormous. Worse, it leaves the European marketplace practically unnoticed, without creating any resources, and in fact destroying quite a few (for examples, see [6] and [7] ). Now let's see how this monopoly is gaining strength every day, keeping in mind the various risks, both economic and otherwise, it exposes us to on a daily basis. When dealing with computers, the possibilities afforded to ruthless companies are quite daunting. We will try to understand this, starting with all that does not necessarily qualify as downright illegal practices. The characteristics of software To begin to see how we pay a hidden tax every time we buy a PC ( 4 ) or Windows software, we have to become familiar with an aspect of the computer industry which distinguishes it from any other technological domain: the cost of duplicating products. Once a piece of software has been written, often at very high cost, it can be duplicated onto a CD-ROM for less than a dollar per copy. It may also be transmitted over a network at an expense that keeps shrinking; all this is completely independent of the quality and production cost of the original. The only items which are not of near-zero cost are the thousands of pages of paper manuals, and the dozens of disks necessary to store the software in the absence of a CD-ROM drive. Software editors, to whose advantage it obviously is to minimize this cost, have already found a solution: PCs sold in department stores come with bundled software, but seldom include any documentation on paper, except perhaps for some flimsy "Getting Started" leaflets. There are, of course, so-called online versions of the manuals; technically, nothing prevents you from spending a few hundred francs to print them out if you like. I have even noticed that a well-known Japanese company that sells some of the most expensive laptops on the market, does so without including the CD-ROM containing the operating system software. Everything is pre-installed on the hard disk, and it is up to the user to buy the forty or so diskettes needed for a backup and play the floppy shuffle for a day if he wants a permanent copy. Today, it is safe to say that with this procedure, the cost of copying software is practically zero. A second important point is the legal status of software. For reasons which, upon reflection, are not very hard to grasp, software, this high technology marvel used by millions of people throughout the world in their daily professional life, this most complex object revered as the linchpin of a new industrial revolution, benefits from the same liability protection as a work of art. (Indeed, software industry firms are called "editors".) For example, there is no legal guarantee that shrink-wrapped software will serve any purpose, not even the one for which it is advertised. This situation may be acceptable when one buys a novel or a painting (de gustibus... said the Romans), but is absolutely unacceptable when it concerns software. It means that you cannot sue Microsoft for malpractice after discovering that Windows 95 is not designed in accordance with established and proven technologies, while you can sue an electrician or plumber whose work is not up to professional standards and norms. Even worse, no one is responsible for any damage that the software could cause. Once again, it is reasonable that you cannot sue a musician if his latest techno CD bought by your son causes a family dispute in the course of which you break a very expensive piece of Chinese pottery. But it is totally unacceptable to be left without recourse if you were to lose 200 megabytes of valuable commercial data on your hard disk because of Windows 95's antique file system and its horrifying program, Scandisk. This is especially true since you could easily prove in court that the technology needed to design a vastly superior product, with which you would not have lost your data, has been available in the public domain since the 70s, and that the code itself, as used in the AT&T version of UNIX, has even been acquired by Microsoft. On the other hand, you can drag your electrician to court if he runs electrical wiring through the wooden moldings in your home ( 5 ). Finally, a very serious consequence of this lack of accountability is that the "editors" of the software are in no way legally bound to correct errors and recognized failures in their products, even if those mistakes are voluntary. This means that the software "editors" can sell whatever they like, or rather, whatever their marketing departments make you buy, with no obligation as to the products' fitness to purpose, while enjoying full legal immunity, even in the case of blatant dishonesty. Better still, the customer may be forced to pay as much as the original product price for "updates" that in reality are nothing more than bug fixes. These surprising legal aspects, which were probably justified when software was written by engineers in their garages, are absolutely baffling today when we have several international software corporations of astronomical financial clout. Moreover, the legal immunity does not benefit all software editors, only the most powerful ones. Indeed, a large company can and must force a software provider to sign a contract that clearly defines the deliverables in addition to certain guarantees. Alas, this is neither within reach of the average consumer, nor of most small businesses that run the risk of being purchased or destroyed in a short time if the editor they are dealing with has sufficient financial leverage. I can very well imagine that, just like the young executive mentioned earlier, you are feeling slightly less comfortable by now: the Promised Land of cyberspace is starting to reveal many unfriendly dark sides, and that wonderful humanitarian company that was always presented to us as the finest in computer technology, and the living success of market economy, looks less and less philanthropic. Unfortunately, all this is only the beginning of our journey to the dark side of planet Microsoft. The worst is yet to come. Manufacturers ambushed Microsoft's monopoly allows it to easily get rid of yet another source of software marketing cost: technical support and distribution. Regarding the former, one can imagine that even though a company may not be legally bound to help install its software, it will still do so in order to retain its market share. Not to worry, Microsoft has the solution. Just take a look at the license agreement for Windows 95, of which I include this excerpt: 6. PRODUCT SUPPORT. Neither Microsoft Corporation, nor its affiliates, offer support for the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. For support, please contact the support number of the Computer Manufacturer included in the documentation of the COMPUTER. Clever, isn't it? The burden is squarely put on the shoulders of the hardware manufacturers who are not responsible for items like Defrag, blue screens, and so on, but who will pay--literally--their consequences (I know something about this, given the number of times I have unsuccessfully tried to obtain telephone support for the installation of Windows onto the aforementioned Japanese laptop). If Windows 95 did not enjoy a monopoly position, computer manufacturers would happily rid themselves of such an arrangement. As for the distribution of the software itself, once again, it is the manufacturers, assemblers, and resellers who pay: they have to "pre-install" Windows 95 on your machine. But there is an even better solution: the distribution, over the Internet, of software without any physical support. This is a stroke of genius: you pay for the programs and download them at your own expense (and quite an expense it is, considering the size of Microsoft Office these days), thus effectively lowering the "editor's" total cost of duplication and distribution to exactly zero dollars and zero cents. If you are asking yourself why the president of a certain North-American country has strongly suggested that electronic commerce not be taxed, then you have part of the answer right here. To sum it up: today, if your name is Microsoft, and only if it is Microsoft, you can sell just about anything. You need not guarantee any result nor fear being sued. You'll have a unit cost of next to zero and a retail price that never decreases ( 6 ). In fact, you end up with pure profit ( 7 ). It remains to be understood why, in addition to the average consumer (who does not understand computers), large companies, the media, and entire nations, which should have highly qualified IT professionals at their disposal, do not exercise their freedom to choose anything other than Microsoft products. To answer this question, it is not enough to consider the peddlers and merchandisers in the so-called specialized press, even though they clearly deserve part of the blame. We have to examine the dark side of this giant more closely, and we will begin to discover some shady practices which border on the illegal. To my regret, these are not documented anywhere by the [French] media, except in a few short-lived satirical pamphlets that are certainly not on the favorite reading list of corporate decision-makers ( 8 ). The Land of TechnoCretins... To make things clearer, let's forget computers, software, and all that for a moment. We have been conditioned to consider these things useful but difficult, and to refrain from forming a personal opinion about them. They are, we are told, too complex, and we should limit ourselves to following the choices made by so-called experts (The American magazine Byte, a widely circulated publication, even has a logo that reads "Byte, because the experts decide"). So let's leave these experts aside for a while, and take a short trip to an imaginary world: The Land of TechnoCretins. There, a company, let's call it MacroPress, has little by little gained total control of all the print shops on the planet. It does not control the newspapers directly, but it prints them with the MacroPress character set, of which it is the sole owner. One day, after a large advertising campaign to praise a new character set that will modernize newspapers, it starts printing everything in Klingonian type (the alphabet of the Klingons from the famous Star Trek series) in such a way that no one can read the new books and newspapers without resorting to the MacroPress Lens, available for sale at every newsstand where it is distributed at the newspaper publishers' expense. The public, delighted by the wonderful technological innovation, adapts and buys the Lens. Encouraged by the success of this initiative, MacroPress begins changing its character sets periodically, first every year, then every six months. The old Lenses cannot read the new print, and they have to be renewed at great expense every two or three months. A competitor of MacroPress sees a golden opportunity: to produce a MiniLens, much less expensive than MacroPress' Lens, and to sell it at newsstands. But the newsstands have an exclusivity agreement with MacroPress and refuse to distribute the MiniLens. Worse, MacroPress sues the competitor who is guilty of having analyzed the Klingonian characters in order to build the MiniLens, thereby violating MacroPress' copyright, and wins the case. ... is closer than you think But what idiots, you say, no one would be fooled to such an extent! Well, let me tell you that the Land of TechnoCretins is not that far away. Two years ago, I needed to submit a grant request to the EEC to cover the visit of an English researcher to our laboratory. To do this, I tried to obtain a form, and I was told that the simplest way would be to download it from the European Union web server <www.cordis.lu>, since getting a hardcopy might take a long time. Thus, I came across a document we will call <foo.doc>, written with Microsoft Word for Windows version whatever. In other words, Klingonian. No problem, I said confidently, we have a few Macintoshes in the lab with the Microsoft Word 6.0 "Lens". It is a more recent version from the same company, so it will know how to read the document. I said this around 10 a.m., but to my surprise, Microsoft Word for Macintosh crashed the machine after ten minutes of "conversion". I had to turn the computer off and back on again, losing all of my work. At this point, a real battle with the "Lens" ensued. I emerged victorious, but exhausted, around 7 p.m., with a version of the form filled in, obtained by printing pages one at a time, and thanks to complex manipulations I don't want to go into. Suffice it to say that I really felt like suing someone, without much hope of being able to do so. And all that for what? To complete an extremely simple form with the fields First name, Last name, etc. which could very easily have been prepared with an open file format, such as HTML, used on the Web since 1991. In the course of the last two years, <www.cordis.lu> hasn't changed a thing. The site is much prettier, but the forms and documents containing vital information that should be openly accessible and free of charge, are still presented in a proprietary format. Usually, this format is Microsoft's, and, unbelievably, compatible only with Microsoft products for PC. Consequently, our laboratory will soon be forced to buy a PC with Windows 95 and Microsoft Office merely to read EEC documents. The Klingonian Lens is making headway... Regarding the Lens, the file format changes from version to version in such a way that Word 5.0 cannot work with Word 7.0 files. Even worse, Word 6.0 for Macintosh has trouble reading Word for Windows documents. We are literally trapped! It is not enough to buy Word once, one has to pay again for each version, just to be able to continue reading other people's files. If, by chance, one has bought an add-on product for version 5.0, say, a Spanish dictionary, it will have to be bought again for the new version. The old one will now be "incompatible", even though Spanish has not changed a great deal in the meantime. This is, in fact, a kidnapping of your information: once data is entered into Word or Money, there is no easy way to recover and transfer it to another piece of software if you no longer wish to buy Microsoft products. Great care has been taken not to give you efficient converters to other formats ( 9 ). Moreover, legislation has been proposed prohibiting the use of proprietary file formats, or even their analysis. If adopted, a company selling a "MiniLens" would be in violation of the Copyright ( 10 ). But it is our data that is at stake here. Welcome to the Land of TechnoCretins! Dubious practices Let's summarize! The technique is simple: on one hand, valuable information is being locked into a proprietary format that is constantly being updated. Users must then buy upgrades for all their applications every six to twelve months just to be able to continue reading their own data or access information that does not need to be stored in this proprietary format. On the other hand, competitors are trapped: they are not given the full documentation, and arbitrary variations are introduced with the sole purpose of not allowing the products they develop to work correctly. Worse, if the competitors manage to find out that one of these modifications' only purpose is to make their products work less well than that of the monopolist, they are guilty of reverse engineering (the computer equivalent of taking apart the engine of a VW Beetle to find out how it works) ( 11 ). This latter technique is particularly powerful if the software publisher owns the operating system and graphical interface (Windows 95) as well as the applications (MS Word, Excel etc.). It is then technically possible to modify the system to make competing products unstable or unusable, while improving the performance of one's own products (a current practice that relies on a contrived usage of DLLs). This has been done in Windows NT Workstation: the number of simultaneous accesses to the machine has been artificially limited to 10, which makes a Netscape web server unusable on machines running under NT Workstation (see [13] and [ 14 ]). To get around this, users must buy the much more expensive NT Server, which is shipped with a free copy of Microsoft's web server pre-installed. This puts Netscape out of the picture. You can understand the Machiavellian simplicity of Microsoft's maneuver even better, once you know that the parts of NT Workstation and NT Server that one pays for are identical [ 15 ], [ 16 ], give or take a few lines of code. The net result of these dubious practices is simple: it prevents users from choosing something other than a Microsoft product. This, along with the reduction of the costs and risks to zero, as seen above, allows the monopolist to establish a real tax on information of which Microsoft is the sole beneficiary. After all, if Bill Gates has been welcomed at the Elysée Palace with the honors normally reserved for a head of state, it is probably because he is the cyber version of the tax collector. This tax is in no way virtual: enormous amounts of money leave the European Union every year in exchange for low quality products that make us more and more dependent on poor technology from overseas. Furthermore, this technology is distributed in Europe at exorbitant prices, much higher than those charged in America or Canada. Don't be fooled by those who tell you that software in Europe is more expensive because it has to be translated, for example into French. If you visit Microsoft's web site, you will find that they consider it "illegal" ( sic) to buy the French versions of their software in Canada, where they are much less expensive than in Europe, and to use them in France [ 17 ]. What about "free" trade? We are milked like dumb cows, and the passive attitude of the European governments, which is starting to look too much like active cooperation if we think of <http://www.cordis.lu>, is absolutely inexplicable in the face of this horrendous waste. Getting around the law We now get to those actions that are downright illegal. Let's start with "bundled sales", which are prohibited in France (Book I, Chapter II, section 1 of the consumer law states that it is illegal to tie the sale of one product to the purchase of another) and in Europe (see articles 85 and especially 86 of the treaty, and the very detailed [ 18 ] for information on how they are applied). What this means, is that it is against the law for any vendor to force you to buy a product you don't want along with the product you are interested in. It doesn't prevent the sale of assorted "bundles" in supermarkets, provided that the customer has the option of buying the components separately, if he so desires, and without a surcharge. However, for many years, the largest PC vendors have not permitted the purchase of a computer without Microsoft software (Windows 95 or NT today, DOS or Windows 3.x in the past). You can personally verify this by visiting Dell's or Gateway's Web sites, for example. True, you can "build your own computer", but there is no way to remove the Microsoft "Lens" from the components, despite the fact that software and hardware are two very different products (even though some try their best to hide this from us) ( 12 ). What is worse, you can't even determine the price of the software. (These prices are often much lower than the retail prices, because they are part of nondisclosure agreements. One such agreement was recently condemned by an EEC court of law and declared an illegal sales practice). So you can get an idea of the economics at stake, consider the case of a university in the Paris area which, a few months ago, bought 15 PCs to install GNU/Linux on. We do not know for sure how much a hardware vendor has to pay for Windows 95, but if we believe what is said in [ 7 ], Office PME, the street price of which is double that of Windows 95's, is sold to OEMs for about $100. We can therefore estimate that Windows 95 is sold to OEMs for about $50, and even assuming that hardware vendors do not make any profit on the software (which I doubt since pre-installation is a service that has a cost), this university has been forced to pay 15 times $60, or $900, for a product it did not want. In other words, in this particular case, the French government gave a $900 subsidy to Microsoft, a non-European company neither known for being on the verge of bankruptcy, nor in dire need of government assistance. If we extrapolate and consider all purchases made by French universities using GNU/Linux, we are dealing with millions of dollars every year. One really begins to wonder who the real pirates are! I cannot understand the reasons for such a waste, especially when we are being told that the state's coffers are empty. If you try hard, and I mean really hard, it may be possible, at least in theory, to get your software money back after a purchase, once again by harassing the hardware manufacturers, but this is a tedious exercise reminiscent of an obstacle course. In our school, several researchers and students have bought desktop or laptop computers in order to install GNU/Linux or NextStep. They all had to buy Windows as well and were never able to get their money back. This is where the most important source of profit for Microsoft lies, and this is why we can talk about a real tax on computers: each purchased PC represents so many dollars into Microsoft's deep pockets, whether the customer wants their product or not. It is for ten years of such practices, which made the wealth of the company and killed competition, that Microsoft was reprimanded by American and European courts in 1995, unfortunately without any financial consequences [ 19 ]. This means that the booty from this theft remained in the pockets of the thief, in exchange for the promise not to relapse. Perhaps it is because the verdict lacked a punitive element that it is still very difficult today to buy a PC without Windows, unless one is willing to resort to small vendors. The case of Dell and Gateway is the norm, and each PC bought is one more "Windows user" in the statistics, even if the first thing this user does is trash Windows 95 in order to install GNU/Linux. A look at the possible future of education Now, what can happen if we don't wake up from our deep sleep and let ourselves be pushed into the traps of an industry and education system computerized by a private monopoly? Thanks to the so-called "French technology lag", it is possible to answer this question. For better or worse, other countries are years ahead, and this should allow us to contemplate a number of possible futures. Let's start with the immediate future. We do not need to look any further than Switzerland. On October 8th, 1997, the Swiss Minister of Finance announced an agreement with Microsoft. As a result of this agreement, the Swiss administration will make 2,500 computers available to the schools, while the American giant will contribute the same number of licenses for Microsoft products and train 600 educators to use the PCs [ 20 ] (a similar gift has been made to South Africa). In other words, for less than the cost of an advertising campaign, our monopolist has gained total control of computer education in Swiss schools, and thus, of Swiss companies, for by the time the students reach the job market, they will know nothing but Microsoft Office. Looking into the future, this is not a good deal for Switzerland, but at least they have not paid for Microsoft software. Or more accurately, not yet, since they could be asked to pay up at a future date, as is currently happening in Japan. Last December, Microsoft announced the suppression of site licenses (an accounting scheme for licenses in a company or university that allows paying for software in proportion to actual usage, as opposed to the number of computers on which it is installed) to their Japanese customers. This decision implies a considerable and unjustified surcharge that the Japanese will have to pay since there are no more Microsoft competitors to turn to. Let's look a little further into the future: California State University (CSU) is currently endorsing the creation of a corporation, the CETI, by Microsoft, GTE, Fujitsu, and Hughes Electronics. CETI will have the monopoly of renewing the computer infrastructure of CSU's 23 university campuses, where there are more than 350,000 students and teachers. In exchange for investing of a few hundred million dollars into the network infrastructure over the next ten years, CSU will let CETI choose the computers and software supported on campus, and the proposal is crystal clear on this point: it will be Windows 95, Windows NT, and Microsoft Office only. The projected profits for CETI, in addition to the impact on the education of tomorrow's executives, which will be made possible by the creation of specialized courses on proprietary computer science, round up to a few billion dollars over ten years. Note that this only includes the monopolist sale of proprietary hardware and software to students and teachers who will not be able to follow courses without using this equipment (see [ 21 ] and, for the decision to re-examine the deal, [ 22 ]). The stakes: controlling the information But the commercial and political issues at stake go far beyond education and business management. This is not just about selling computers and software, but about total control of any form of transmission and processing of information, be it in education, banking, the new and old media, or right down to the privacy of our own personal correspondence. A player capable of securing a monopoly in handling this information will be in a position to tax any computer operation (for example, in the form of a percentage of the transaction amount, or vigorish), as has been written by Nathan Myrhvold, Microsoft's CTO, in an internal note that is now part of the DoJ file and which the Wall Street Journal reviewed last year [ 23 ]. But such a monopolist can also force you to give up a growing part of your personal freedom, which can generate far greater profits. Just think about the fact that all types of information can be digitized and thus handled by a computer, and that it is, in principle, possible to keep track of any computer operation. For instance, while you are comfortably seated in front of your multimedia PC looking at nice pictures on the Internet, it will be possible to copy your banking data, or assemble and use, unbeknownst to you, your personal and psychological profiles. Web browsers started doing that ages ago using "cookies" [ 24 ], and some companies like Sidewalk, a Microsoft subsidiary, force you to agree to a true violation of your privacy before they allow you to access their service [ 25 ]). Thanks to unsafe proprietary extensions, such as Microsoft's ActiveX, it will be possible to have money stolen from your bank account while you surf the web. This has been unambiguously demonstrated by a group of computer scientists from Hamburg on German television, as well as in a few publications. In France, the press did not pick up the story at all (see [ 26 ] for details). Even if Microsoft does not exploit the security holes in its system, others can do it for them. Today, a virus may be transported in the simplest of Word documents, and if you make purchases on the Internet based on "secure" transactions, your credit card number can be hacked at a cost of eight hours of computing time on a student's machine. Plenty to worry about, especially if one considers the recent agreement between the French bank Crédit Lyonnais and Microsoft regarding the management of the bank's client accounts using the Web (see [ 27 ]). It is equally possible to trace your physical movements, which are revealed without your knowledge by your credit card and cellular phone activity, as has been shown during the recent Swiss scandal or the OM-Valenciennes case (in this context, it may be a good idea to start worrying about the merger of the Microsoft Network in France with France Télécom's Wanadoo service). To reach such a position without undue risk of getting caught with one's hand in the cookie jar, it is necessary to control the whole technological chain: the computer must use a specific piece of software, capable of gathering information behind the user's back, the Internet service providers need to implement methods to keep track of the duration and type of the connections, and the sites that contain the information the user is looking for must use specific software that is able to keep a trace of which documents were accessed, and to identify the user by communicating with his or her browser. Most importantly, all this has to happen without the user becoming aware of it. Today, any average computer programmer can easily ascertain whether a certain browser is revealing your identity to less than trustworthy servers. This is possible because we are using protocols that are in the public domain and must remain there to allow pieces of software produced by different companies to work together reasonably well. However, if tomorrow there is only one software producer left in the market, it is likely that the exchange of information will be effected by far less transparent means that will be difficult to expose and analyze, again because of the laws governing reverse engineering. As you can see, all this is not only a matter of choosing a word processor. An opportunity for Europe and employment Here, my surprise at the passive attitude, or even collusion, of our media reaches its peak: we are in the process of ratifying and praising practices worthy of buccaneers, even though our economic independence is at stake. I could understand if Americans paid little attention to where the millions of dollars were coming from since they land in the pockets of one of their fellow citizens. What I cannot comprehend is how we can close our eyes here in Europe while this money is coming out of our purses. It must be said that the EEC has not remained totally inactive in this area, and a large-scale investigation of the dubious practices we have now learned to recognize appears to be going on [ 28 ]. Reading between the lines of some speeches made by members of the DGIV, this investigation seems to follow the same direction as the one launched by the FTC in Japan not long ago. However, this is not enough: given the speed of technological advances in information processing, inquiries end after the damage has already been inflicted. If, as in the 1995 agreement, no financial penalties are imposed, as some indiscretions suggest, none of this is very useful. What we need is an active policy in the field of computer science and information processing. We do have the technological means for such a policy; let us not forget that European know-how is frequently superior to what can be found on the other side of the Atlantic. To give just two examples, one of the authors of NextStep, often called "the most respected piece of software on the planet," is French, and Europe is at the forefront in developing formal methods of software verification. These methods have led to the successful completion of a large number of vitally important projects, the most recent of which was the second launch of the Ariane 5 rocket. There is a unique opportunity for Europe to liberate itself from the American technological monopoly, and thereby give an enormous advantage to its companies and schools. The technology lag we hear so much about is actually our greatest advantage: it means that we have not yet completely fallen into the trap towards which we are being pushed. We must remember that missing the boat is not such a bad thing, if this boat will eventually sink. We can still choose to provide our companies and children with low cost access to free, open, reliable, and efficient computing, as a growing number of competent computer scientists are demonstrating, by, whenever possible, selecting free, open and modifiable software that is far superior to pre-installed, questionable products. Moreover, this choice represents an enormous potential for creating new jobs. A possible alternative: freely accessible software When choosing software for our high schools and colleges to introduce our children to computing, we do not have to limit ourselves to the suspect and dubious gifts of cyber-monopolists. Instead of a proprietary system that crashes very often, changes version all the time and for no reason, and for which the source code is not available, we can select a freely accessible, open, and stable system. Contrary to a popular misconception, free software has had ample time to prove itself [ 29 ]). Furthermore, such software allows students to work and learn in total security while affording inquisitive minds the opportunity to acquire an advanced and intelligent computing knowledge: the availability of the source code makes it possible to "open the hood" and even, if desired, to "take the engine apart" to see how it works. As to furnishing the so-called large accounts with computer systems, it is preferable to rely on software that comes with source code and documentation, is constantly verified and updated by a technologically competent community, and can be adapted to everyone's needs at little cost. Some serious studies, conducted by independent consulting firms, have accurately evaluated the economic and strategic advantages a company can gain by choosing solutions based on open rather than monopolistic software (for instance, see [ 30 ] and [ 31 ], [ 32 ]). We can also find several examples of European companies that have successfully put this theory into practice before exporting it across the Atlantic (see [ 33 ] and the ever-growing list [ 34 ]). All this is possible without investing a single cent, thanks to a project started about fifteen years ago by Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation. The stated objective was to produce a completely free operating system called GNU [ 35 ]. This work has recently been completed through the effort of thousands of competent people who have answered Linus Torvalds' call from every corner of the globe. Their joint (and non-profit) contributions permitted the completion of a free and open operating system. It is a version of Unix known as Linux (see [ 36 ], [ 37 ]), but it would probably be more accurate to call it GNU/Linux [ 38 ] as we have done throughout this article. The story of GNU/Linux brings to mind three words that should not only be dear to the French: liberty, equality, fraternity. For this system, one can now find almost everything: Web servers, a Java virtual machine, DOS emulators, GNU tools, and even office suites. There is nothing to pay to obtain these base products. The European Union could lend a helping hand to this benevolent endeavor: a few hundred thousand dollars, a laughable amount on a European scale, could, if well spent, allow the rapid completion of projects such as GNUstep [ 39 ], promote the further development of GNU/Linux, and establish a top-quality open platform for interoperable office suites. The choice of an open and freely accessible system can neutralize the information tax and thus favor employment while making our companies more competitive. The money that doesn't go up in smoke (through Windows) can be productively used to pay for maintenance contracts with local computer service professionals who will adapt the system to the specific needs of the companies. This creates a true area of growth. Jobs will be created for engineers, who will be responsible for the quality of their product, and not just for under-paid salespeople who attempt to sell something that they have no control over and that generates profits, which go elsewhere. In any event, these kinds of jobs will be essential to France in the near future in order to operate and maintain the computer networks that will be installed in high schools as part of the "Internet for Everyone" plan. We must, at all cost, avoid repeating the "guru-in-the-box" mistake, i.e., the belief that the installation manual carries the sum total of the knowledge required to operate a computer. It is this erroneous notion that turned a huge number of Thomson personal computers, built for the 1981 "Computer Science for the Masses" project, into rather expensive paperweights. In conclusion Computers provide us with the potential to revolutionize our daily lives, but it is our responsibility to choose whether this revolution will end in an obscure technological Middle Ages, dominated by a few feudal lords who seize control of writing and any other means of communication to collect a tax every time we breathe, or if we can achieve an open and modern world, where the free flow of information allows us to capitalize on the immense promise of limitless cooperation and sharing of knowledge. Acknowledgements This English version of the original French text would not have seen the light without the efforts of Philippe Regnauld <regnauld@deepo.prosa.dk> and Alban Chevignard <albc@javanet.com>, who made the initial translation, and Daniel and Vicki Kiechle <dkiechle@csi.com> who deeply revised and improved it, bringing it to the current state. I warmly thank them all for their support and dedication. It is a reason for hope that this translation from French (as well as ongoing translations to other languages) has been carried out thanks to precisely the kind of barrierless cooperation that only an open and modern world computer network can guarantee. Copyright Notice © Copyright Roberto Di Cosmo, 1997. The ideas and opinions expressed in this text are the author's and do not necessarily reflect those of ENS, DMI, and LIENS. This text is copyrighted and protected by the laws governing intellectual property. Individuals who are neither employed by the Microsoft Corporation nor by a company bound to the Microsoft Corporation by a non-disclosure agreement are hereby granted the right to reproduce this text for personal and non-profit reasons, provided that the article be copied in its entirety, including this copyright notice. The Microsoft Corporation and its associates may, if they so desire, contact the author to obtain an individual license at a price that will be established by the author. Non-compliance shall result in a penalty of one million French francs. End Notes (1) The confusion is such that one does not distinguish operating system from application software any longer. The press has written "Windows 97" when they were dealing with Windows 95 and the set of applications Word, Excel, etc. commonly referred to as "Office 97"! (2) A byte is an eight-digit binary number commonly used to measure the size of computer memory. Also used are kilobyte, megabyte, and gigabyte, as well as the abbreviations Kb, Mb, and Gb. (3) See Technologie et Marché : journal d'un consommateur insatisfait, by the same author, (4) Originally, "PC" just stood for "Personal Computer". Today, the term is used for a particular type of personal computers: the one that uses Intel and Intel-compatible processors. (5) A hazardous practice that is now illegal in Europe. (6) Unlike the price of hardware which is constantly falling, Microsoft software never gets noticeably cheaper. On the contrary, sometimes it gets more expensive with each version. For example, the suggested retail price of Windows 95 in France is currently 1,270 francs (not including tax) whereas it cost less than 800 francs when it came out in 1995. (7) Most software editors sell their products without a real guarantee, but few manage to equal Microsoft in combining such an impressive array of advantages. Only Microsoft has the power to impose its products and thereby collect a real tax on computing. (8) I am thinking of "Le Virus Informatique" and "Les puces informatiques" (see [8] ). (9) From http://microsoft.com/office/office/viewers.asp one can now download an impressive number of converters and viewers, but these only serve to convert between incompatible Microsoft formats and not to free users from the monopolist's grasp (you must have a PC with Windows to use this software). What we need are free and documented formats, the exact opposite of Microsoft's philosophy. (10) In 1991, Richard Stallmann toured Europe to warn the EEC against the dangers of a tacit agreement to this veritable scandal. Some of his arguments are presented in [ 9 ]. (11) For the history of a real case, see Stac vs. Microsoft in [ 10 ]. Fortunately, things have evolved in Europe where a limited form of reverse engineering is now permitted [ 11 ]. Worth noting is also the open opposition against any legislation that would enforce an interoperability of systems [ 12 ]. (12) The author of this article has not limited his research to the Web. A few telephone calls were enough to confirm that it is impossible to buy a computer without Microsoft software from Gateway or Dell. References [1] Wallace (James) et Erickson (Jim). - Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire. - Harperbusiness, 1993. ISBN 0887306292. [2] Cringely (Robert X.). - Accidental Empires : How the Boys of Silicon Valley Make Their Millions, Battle Foreign Competition, and Still Can't Get a Date. - Harperbusiness, 1996. ISBN 0887308554. [3] Wallace (James). - Overdrive : Bill Gates and the Race to Control Cyberspace. - John Wiley and Sons, 1997. ISBN 0471180416. [4] CNN - U.S. vs. Microsoft. http://cnn.com/SPECIALS/1997/microsoft/poll [5] Zdnn news special: DoJ-microsoft round 2, microsoft comes out swinging. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/special/msdoj2.html [6] Perspectives. http://www.news.com/Perspectives/Soapbox/rs12_30_97a.html?nd [7] M.V. - Microsoft m'a tué. Science et Vie Micro (SVM), no 157, février 1998, p. 69. [8] Le virus informatique. http://www.virus.ldh.org [9] Stallman (Richard M.). - The right to read. Communications of the ACM, vol. 40, n'27 2, février 1997. Available on the Web at http://www.gnu.org/people/rms.html [10] Schulmann (Andrew). - LA law. The Stac case judged February 23, 1994, in Los Angeles http://www.dap.csiro.au/Interest/LA-Law.html [11] The CLRC recommendations on reverse engineering and decompilation: giving local developers an equal right to compete. http://www.sisa.org.au/SISASubmission1.html [12] Microsoft & others oppose interoperability in HR 1555. http://www.essential.org/listproc/info-policy-notes/msg00158.html [13] PC WEEK: Netscape to present DOJ with Microsoft antitrust info. http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/news/0819/19edoj.html [14] ftp://ftp.ora.com/pub/examples/windows/win95.update/ntwk4.html [15] Le virus informatique/page27. http://www.virus.ldh.org/num_01/pages/page27.html [16] Minimal NT Server/Workstation Differences. http://software.ora.com/News/ms_internet_andrews.html [17] Dossier Piratage- 10 questions - Microsoft France. http://www.microsoft.com/france/piratage/question.htm [18] http://europa.eu.int/en/comm/dg04/public/en/art8586.pdf [19] Bulletin UE 07-1994 (fr): 2.4.1 Engagement de Microsoft envers la Commission européenne. http://europa.eu.int/abc/doc/off/bull/fr/9407/p204001.htm [20] Swiss schools to get MS software. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,15086,00.html [21] MS college deal protest escalates. http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17212,00.html [22] Cal State delays MS pact. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/0107/269241.html [23] Elmer-DeWitt (Philip). - Bill Gates wants a piece of everybody's action. Time, 6/5/95. [24] Corr (O. Casey). - Cybersnoops on the loose; web-site surfers beware: Software 'cookies' gathering personal data. The Seattle Times, 8/10/97. [25] http://seattle.sidewalk.com/link/43750 Beware! The text is formatted in such a way that the access conditions are all the way to the right--so far that they cannot be read by most browsers without scrolling. Be sure to scroll to the right and read the conditions before you agree to anything. [26] ActiveX - Conceptional Failure of Security. http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/security/activex.en.html [27] http://www.microsoft.com [28] http://europa.eu.int/en/comm/dg04/speech/six/en/sp96016.htm [29] http://www.netaction.org/articles/freesoft.html [30] http://www.smets.com [31] Lang (Bernard). - Des logiciels libres à la disposition de tous. Le monde diplomatique, janvier 1998. - Also available at http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/md/1998/01/LANG/9761.html [32] Lang (Bernard) et Guédon (Jean-Claude). - Linux, mini OS contre maxi exploitation. Libération , 7 novembre 1997. - Also available at http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/ecrits/libe/www.liberation.com/multi/tribune/art/tri971107.html [33] http://mercury.chem.pitt.edu/~angel/LinuxFocus/English/November1997/articulo9.html [34] Freeware usage. http://pauillac.inria.fr/lang/hotlist/free/use [35] http://www.gnu.org [36] http://www.linux.org [37] Linux center. http://www.math.jussieu.fr/fermigie/linux-center [38] http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html [39] http://www.NMR.EMBL-Heidelberg.DE/GNUstep [40] Love (James) et Nader (Ralph). - Microsoft , monopole du prochain siècle? Le monde diplomatique, novembre 1997.
From: Loris Bennett <loris@align.physik.TU-Berlin.DE> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Defective floppy drive? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:59:58 +0200 Organization: Technical University of Berlin Message-ID: <35FE56BE.1E5DD5EC@align.physik.TU-Berlin.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I've got a NeXTstaion Color running NEXTSTEP and have recently found that when I copy anything on to a floppy, the floppy very often then develops damaged sectors and the files I copied are not intact. Is this a known problem? Does anyone knows of a simple remedy, if there is one? Loris AHGA -- ================================================================ Loris Bennett Tel.: (+49) 30 314 23762 loris@align.physik.tu-berlin.de http://wwwitp.physik.TU-Berlin.DE:80/~loris/ TU Berlin, PN7-1, Hardenbergstr. 36, 10632 Berlin, FRG
From: Benne <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GhostScript Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:35:45 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <36001310.8D77129B@geocities.com> References: <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> <6toi7k$nm1$1@unlnews.unl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, you understood my question :-) Could you give me an explanation step-by-step on how to install a HP Deskjet, because I am new with Openstep. Thank you Benjamin Rex Dieter wrote: > In article <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Benne <mikego@geocities.com> > writes: > > > ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erkl ren > > kann, was ich tun mu , damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskjet > > unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu > > I'm going to GUESS (-; this is a question on how to get/use Ghostscript to > use an HP Deskjet printer under NEXTSTEP/OpenStep. > > I've built a package called GSPrintFilter that uses ghostscript to be able > to print to a variety of printers, including most HP Deskjets. It's > available at peak. > > for GSPrintFilter > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/utils/printer/ > > for ghostscript > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/graphics/postscript/ > > p.s. I'll be uploading a newer version (1.40) of GSPrintFilter soon that > fixes a few small bugs. > > -- > Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) > Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ > Mathematics and Statistics > University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ella Baff) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: BCC bug in Mail.app 3.3? Date: 15 Sep 1998 23:03:46 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Message-ID: <6tmroi$d5g$1@agate.berkeley.edu> What's the deal with Mail.app 3.3. I _used_ to be able to blind cc with earlier (3.2) versions but find I can't do it any more. Is this a bug... or is it "me?" Thanks. Post to the group, please.
From: ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 17 Sep 1998 01:20:08 GMT Organization: Concordia University, Montreal, Canada Message-ID: <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-User: ds_spenc Geoffrey Peters (quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com) wrote: : As a note to the story, an interesting tidbit. Did you know, that Bill : Gates' first major sale was "Apple Floating Point BASIC" for the Apple : II computer? What about CBM BASIC on the PET? Was that not a major sale? It predates Applesoft. : Applesoft, as it became known as, has *large* amounts of : code in it "lifted" from Apple's "Integer BASIC". It was such a hit, it : got burnt into every ROM of every new Apple II, //e, //c and IIgs. : Of course, Bill got a royalty for every copy. And CBM BASIC was such a 'hit' it got burned into the ROMs of PETs, VIC-20s and Commodore 64s. But I don't know if Bill got royalties. Apple's own Integer BASIC couldn't do floating point math. The PET, running Microsoft BASIC, could. Applesoft was an important upgrade. : There you go: Apple Computer is responsible for giving Bill the Third : his most important financial leg-up. I think Bill's most important financial leg-up was given to him by IBM. : Pity his "Microsoft Olympics" was such a crock :-) Microsoft Olympic Decathlon wasn't too bad, actually. IBM even sold it with the IBM logo on the cover (but called "Microsoft Decathlon"). The later Epyx games of the genre were a lot better. But they were later. : Geoffrey With respect to the quoted GUI article, that appeared to have some heavy biases. But anything I could say to counter it would be hearsay. I wish someone with a Xerox Star or other relevant pre-Apple GUI would pipe up and tell us how it compares to the GUI on the Lisa. I've heard (therefore this is hearsay) that, far from being rudimentary, the Xerox GUI was quite refined. Not at the time of the Alto but at the time of the Star. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: major netstat problem Date: 16 Sep 1998 16:25:08 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <6toop4$hhn$3@news.spacelab.net> References: <35FF0750.2487A6EC@mosquitonet.com> "Richard S. Guse" <rsg@mosquitonet.com> wrote: >I have an old NeXT slab that has recently developed problems. Whenever >the 'netstat' command is run, the machine becomes unusable. ie: ls >works but not ls -l; ps works, but not ps -u; etc...users cannot login >or do anything useful. Sounds like lookupd is getting hosed. Lookupd is the thing that caches information like user and groups, which is why the long form of ls and other commands hang. >We recently installed a firewall & changed our domain name, but this >does not seem possible as an explanation. It could be if NetInfo hasn't been appropriately updated. Check your NI database and make sure you've updated the machine entries, and possibly the networks section. >We thought it was a net problem, but nslookup works just fine. In fact, >only netstat & smtpnetstat cause the problem. nslookup only deals with DNS; it wouldn't reveal or be affected by problems elsewhere. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: Shimpei Yamashita <shimpei+usenet+.mil+.gov@BOFH.submm.caltech.edu> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 16 Sep 1998 16:16:18 GMT Organization: Hummingbird Heaven Message-ID: <6too8i$19n@gap.cco.caltech.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <p5zpc9mjus.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86d895ghbd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Originator: shimpei@submm.caltech.edu (Shimpei Yamashita) Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: >> All sources that were used to build a Linux distribution are available. >> Since many of them are GPL'd, they have to be (to bring this back around >> ... :). > >All the sources are AFAIK not available in an automatically >rebuildable form. Yes, they are (at least for RedHat distribution), in form of source RPMs which are distributed alongside binary RPMs on both CD-ROM and on FTP sites. A source RPM contains the original source code, any and all patches required to get it to compile on Linux, and a script that will automatically patch, compile, install, and (optionally) create a binary-only RPM. Going from source RPMs to having everything installed is a two-line affair: rpm -i *.src.rpm rpm -bi /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/* AFAIK, everything can be rebuilt this way (with the obvious exception of programs that don't come with source code, like netscape). -- Shimpei Yamashita <http://www.submm.caltech.edu/%7Eshimpei/>
From: Gabriel Morales <Togega@Yahoo.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 16 Sep 1998 22:33:54 PDT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <36009F84.88918778@Yahoo.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With respect to this topic, I would appreciate it if anyone could indicate to me reliable sources on the Internet for the purpose of writing a brief history of the GUI & Apple's place in it's history.
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 17 Sep 1998 01:52:08 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Sep 1998 05:52:12 GMT %% les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: lm> In article <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com>, lm> Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: >> Maybe it's just me, but it seems there's a difference between "an >> additional non-free version" and taking the primary reference version >> and making it non-free (and having most of the talent associated with >> the free version now working on the non-free version). lm> Are you suggesting that by having worked on something free in the lm> past the 'talent' should lose its choice to do otherwise in the lm> future? Certainly not, but there wasn't much choice here, was there? I mean, TOG decided to change the license. I doubt there was a vote taken by the X developers on whether they approved of the action or not. Sure, of course they can vote with their feet but everyone knows life is not so simple. And the end result may be the same as if everyone in the X Consortium development group suddenly decided to go work for a different company developing X under a new license (except for the naming issue, perhaps), but I think the process matters, too. But maybe I'm the only one--it's happened before :). >> 2) As best as I understand it, XFree developers that want to implement >> a new feature that TOG introduces will have to infer its use and >> implementation from its behavior, since without a "clean-room" >> implementation they'd be in danger of infringing the X11 copyright. >> Since X11 never has shipped with much documentation (X11 has always >> been a Sample Implementation, after all) this could be quite time >> consuming and difficult. >> >> Not much of an advantage here for the XFree folks :( lm> That means that anyone buying a version of X containing a such a lm> feature will not be able to use it in cross-platform situations. lm> Not a big selling point in my book. They are welcome to offer lm> such features of course - I just won't be paying extra for them. lm> If they release enough specs or reference code to make it work lm> with other systems it becomes much more valuable all the way lm> around, which is why we use X in the first place instead of lm> arguably better alternatives. Not all enhancements to X will require interoperability. The features I mentioned are all server features which don't require changes to the protocol layer and don't require any sort of interoperability. If you have a server that supports them, you win. If you don't, you lose. There's no incentive to release these things or make them easily reproducible by XFree in any way. Quite the opposite. >> All in all, I can see no downsides for TOG and no upsides for the >> XFree86 folks in this transaction. How do you figure XFree86 will gain? lm> I think anyone selling extensions will find it valuable to make sure lm> that other systems interoperate. Again, interoperability is most often not an issue in X. Certainly I agree; if TOG changes the X protocol I imagine that will be relatively painless due to interoperability pressures. But when was the last time that happened? The point is that TOG will be able to leverage _everything_ XFree manages to do--such as provide servers for all the PC cards: you don't think Solaris for x86, SCO, etc. will jump all over that? They get all the proprietary enhancements that they and their partners fund that make their servers run better and have more features, their apps have fewer security holes, etc. _and_ they get all the porting work XFree does, all the drivers they write, and any new features they manage to add on in between. In return, XFree gets squat. They don't even get to call their product X11 anymore. Again, I can't find even one iota of upside for the free software community in TOG's decision. lm> If it is important for the new work to interoperate there is a good lm> incentive to donate. If it doesn't need to interoperate, then who lm> cares? How is anyone harmed by someone writing new work and not lm> donating it any more than by a new work done from scratch? You can say "I'd rather have people reusing code and not releasing the results than reworking code so it might not be interoperable." That may work well for things where inter-vendor interoperability is important, but this is a far cry from everything. Even where interoperability _is_ crucial, when isn't it to some company's advantage to make their proprietary versions work better than other companies' version, even while they stay interoperable? Why wouldn't Sun keep the "killer hacks" that make their TCP/IP stack run 10% faster when you use Suns instead of something else a secret? I can say "I'd rather not allow people to make proprietary changes to my code so that there's much greater incentive for them to contribute: if they want the "leg up" using my code gives them, they have to reciprocate." Now it's a simple matter of cost analysis: will the company make more money by reproducing all that work, with all it entails in terms of support, bugs, etc., but get whatever incremental revenue they can by owning it all, or will they make more money by taking the head-start the GPL'd code gives them and not getting that incremental revenue? It obviously also depends on what you're talking about. Certainly I doubt anyone reading this reasonably expects a company to incorporate GPL'd code into their kernel and release the kernel source--as you put it, "giving away the store". But in other contexts it works well. GCC is the oft-given example where it's been proven to work. Why wouldn't Sun or HP put a GPL'd version of sendmail on their systems? Why not ship with bash? Or GNU find or GNU tar? The latest RCS or patch? GNU diff? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 17 Sep 1998 01:17:52 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6tpo00$rlc@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6tkha7$j9v@lace.colorado.edu> <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de>, Andreas Schwab <schwab@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> wrote: >|> >>I really wasn't trying to hit on OS quality. I am truely curious about >|> >>how one would rebuild Linux from scratch. >|> >Linux is not a distribution. Linux is the kernel. Thus the analog of >|> >something like FreeBSD, which is a distribution, is Red Hat or Debian, >|> >not Linux. >|> This is incorrect. FreeBSD is _both_ a kernel _and_ a distribution. >Of course, Red Hat and Debian both come with the Linux kernel. Your point >is? The point is stated above and clearly stated in my original post. Someone asked about how often people ``rebuild Linux from scratch''. The reply implied that FreeBSD was a ``distribution'' rather than a kernel, and therefore the question was incorrectly stated. I simply pointed out that this is incorrect, since FreeBSD is both a kernel and a distribution. So the question (as I said before, in text which you deleted) is how often Linux users rebuild the Linux kernel, compared to how often FreeBSD users rebuild the FreeBSD kernel. Frank Crary CU Boulder
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss From: mrs@kithrup.com (Mike Stump) Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:59:26 GMT In article <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: >David Kastrup wrote: >] You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on >] it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). > >No, you can't: Bzzt, wrong. He seems to understand it better than you, please don't `correct' people that understand things better than you, if confuses the people that don't know better. >| You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a >| copy > >In other words, you can slap a small fee Yes, it can be small, it also can be in excess of one tillion dollars per line. >for the act of transferring a copy If your only point was, you can't sell it, you can only charge for the physical act of transferring a copy, man, get a life! What was your point?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> From: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@zeus.theos.com> Date: 17 Sep 1998 02:18:50 -0600 Message-ID: <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > Again, interoperability is most often not an issue in X. Certainly I > agree; if TOG changes the X protocol I imagine that will be relatively > painless due to interoperability pressures. But when was the last time > that happened? I think that XFree86 is large enough that TOG cannot change the protocol. They claim to own the standard, and claim to be able to change it if they want to. I think this isn't true. I hope it isn't true. They can try it, I guess. I think they will lose. I hope they will lose. > The point is that TOG will be able to leverage _everything_ XFree > manages to do--such as provide servers for all the PC cards: you don't > think Solaris for x86, SCO, etc. will jump all over that? They get all > the proprietary enhancements that they and their partners fund that make > their servers run better and have more features, their apps have fewer > security holes, etc. _and_ they get all the porting work XFree does, all > the drivers they write, and any new features they manage to add on in > between. Yup. Any commercial organization has always been able to leverage the free work. That's a good thing > In return, XFree gets squat. They don't even get to call their product > X11 anymore. I do not believe that TOG is going to win any battle at stopping XFree86 from using the X11 name. Sorry, Kaleb, this is a battle you will lose. > Again, I can't find even one iota of upside for the free software > community in TOG's decision. I totally respect TOG's wish to go commercial. That's fine. But their mixing of commercial product, name, and futhermore _standard_ is simply DESPICABLE. -- This space not left unintentionally unblank. deraadt@openbsd.org www.OpenBSD.org -- We're fixing security problems so you can sleep at night. (If it wasn't so fascinating I might get some sleep myself...)
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 17 Sep 1998 02:10:54 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6tpr3e$bh@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@kithrup.com> wrote: >>] You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on >>] it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). >>No, you can't: >Bzzt, wrong. >He seems to understand it better than you, please don't `correct' >people that understand things better than you, if confuses the people >that don't know better. How truly good. ``Correct'' has just become a vague and subjective term. Assuming that we both live on the same planet, _no_one_ can ``put an arbitrary price tag on it and sell it...'' You can't charge more than the buyer is willing to pay; if you try to, no one will buy it. In theory, you could charge whatever you like for GPL software, and you might get lucky and find a few idiots stupid enough to pay a very high price. But you aren't going to turn a profit from occasional sales to idiots. In practice, you can't sell anything for more than the price others charge for the same product. Under GPL, you _have_ to give away source and redistribution rights. So, at least on this planet, the author of GPL code can't sell it for more than the price others are willing to sell it for (excluding extra costs for support by the author.) As a result, GPL does _not_, in practice, allow the author to ``put an arbitrary price tag on it and sell it...'' Frank Crary CU Boulder
Sender: eivind@bitbox.follo.net Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <p5zpc9mjus.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86d895ghbd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6too8i$19n@gap.cco.caltech.edu> From: Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> Date: 17 Sep 1998 15:51:31 +0200 Message-ID: <867lz2onj0.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> * Shimpei Yamashita | Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: | >> All sources that were used to build a Linux distribution are available. | >> Since many of them are GPL'd, they have to be (to bring this back around | >> ... :). | > | >All the sources are AFAIK not available in an automatically | >rebuildable form. | | Yes, they are (at least for RedHat distribution), in form of source | RPMs which are distributed alongside binary RPMs on both CD-ROM and on | FTP sites. A source RPM contains the original source code, any and all | patches required to get it to compile on Linux, and a script that will | automatically patch, compile, install, and (optionally) create a | binary-only RPM. Going from source RPMs to having everything installed | is a two-line affair: | | rpm -i *.src.rpm | rpm -bi /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/* | | AFAIK, everything can be rebuilt this way (with the obvious exception | of programs that don't come with source code, like netscape). Can everything rebuild and result in the exact same binaries as the original release, from the installed original release? That's what you need to have a fully reproducable build. I still haven't seen anybody that have actually done the exercise - if there are any that know that this work (in practice, not in theory), I'd be happy if they speak up. Otherwise, you're just hoping you have a reproducable build, because in theory it should be - but most builds are in theory reproducable, so that is pretty uninteresting. Eivind.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6tovr9$hcv$367@hyperion.nitco.com> Control: cancel <6tovr9$hcv$367@hyperion.nitco.com> Date: 17 Sep 1998 06:51:57 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6tovr9$hcv$367@hyperion.nitco.com> Sender: vmpydxnl@somethingfunny.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: jeffr@ronnej.rhn.orst.edu (Jeff Ronne) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 17 Sep 1998 07:07:56 GMT Organization: Network for Education and Research in Oregon Message-ID: <slrn701dkq.2jc.jeffr@ronnej.rcn.orst.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6tjh0l$l05$1@shell17.ba.best.com> <6tkha7$j9v@lace.colorado.edu> <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> <6tpo00$rlc@lace.colorado.edu> On 17 Sep 1998 01:17:52 GMT, Frank Crary <fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote: >The point is stated above and clearly stated in my original post. >Someone asked about how often people ``rebuild Linux from scratch''. >The reply implied that FreeBSD was a ``distribution'' rather than >a kernel, and therefore the question was incorrectly stated. I simply >pointed out that this is incorrect, since FreeBSD is both a kernel >and a distribution. So the question (as I said before, in text >which you deleted) is how often Linux users rebuild the Linux >kernel, compared to how often FreeBSD users rebuild the FreeBSD >kernel. I think the original issue, was about rebuilding [the core of] a Linux distribution, which doesn't happen very often. There are, however, a large number of Linux users that rebuild the kernel. When I first compiled a linux kernel (a few years ago), I saw it as a right of passage, that rewarded me with a optimized kernel that supported all of my hardware. Now with precompiled modular kernels it isn't really necessary for most users. I am sure that a higher percentage of FreeBSD users rebuild both their entire system and just their kernels. -- Jeff (Scorch) Ronne ------------------------------------- jvr@orst.edu PGP/DSS Fingerprint:DBDE 77E6 2FA8 74AA DD84 E7E3 9EBA EAC4 62C2 24EE
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:39:51 +0930 Message-ID: <1dfixss.1xoehk21huu2wpN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> <35FD8821.1F1B@erols.com> <1dfde4o.q0rf6r10c98zkN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> <35FE53CB.707B@erols.com> <1dfegky.1vipk1ntuvzqdN@usern003.uk.uudial.com> <35FEE2EB.68E2@erols.com> Organization: Quantic Education Development Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> wrote: > Stuart Bell wrote: > > > > Robert Blackshaw <blackshaw@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > If memory serves it was Lurcio, slave to Ludicrous Sextus > > > the Senator. It was some time ago, but it was the Prolog > > > that reminded me. > > > > What a fine memory you have! A TV comedy in the fine traditions of > > 'Carry on. . . .' complete with buxom wenches and a sooth-sayer > > intoning, 'Woe, woe and thrice woe'. "Whups!" "Oooooo!" "I _wonder_ how he does that?!" :-) > > Not, I think, one of the pearls of 1970s TV comedy. ;-) > > > Right, not quite in the Masterpiece Theater line. Still, nice > to know the wetware still works. :-) Mm-hmm. And completely off topic. We *are* getting silly :) Geoffrey -- - Quantic Education Development -+- SPAMBLOCK: quantic-@-iname.com - quantic: [KWON-tic] (n) a rational integral homogenous function of two or more variables. [Latin: quantus; "how great"] "Changing the world, one teacher at a time"
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? From: quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com (Geoffrey Peters) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:39:52 +0930 Message-ID: <1dfixup.z35wgm1ka0v09N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> Organization: Quantic Education Development Doug Spence <ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote: > Geoffrey Peters (quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com) wrote: > > : As a note to the story, an interesting tidbit. Did you know, that Bill > : Gates' first major sale was "Apple Floating Point BASIC" for the Apple > : II computer? > > What about CBM BASIC on the PET? Was that not a major sale? It > predates Applesoft. Y'know, I'd completely forgotten about that. Ta! Geoffrey
From: Benne <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ATX Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:30:31 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <36010EF7.E41DA97C@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, that's me again with a question: Does anyone of you know, if it's possible to use the ATX - power off "technology" with OpenStep 4.2? Thank you for your friendly support in this NG. Greetings, Benjamin
From: Benne <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GhostScript Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:26:24 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <36010E00.92291ABC@geocities.com> References: <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> <6toi7k$nm1$1@unlnews.unl.edu> <36001310.8D77129B@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, I just tried to install it again and had no problems. The printer is now working fine. Thank you for your support. Greetings, Benjamin Benne wrote: > Hello, > > you understood my question :-) > > Could you give me an explanation step-by-step on how to install a HP Deskjet, > because I am new with Openstep. > > Thank you > > Benjamin > > Rex Dieter wrote: > > > In article <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Benne <mikego@geocities.com> > > writes: > > > > > ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erkl ren > > > kann, was ich tun mu , damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskjet > > > unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu > > > > I'm going to GUESS (-; this is a question on how to get/use Ghostscript to > > use an HP Deskjet printer under NEXTSTEP/OpenStep. > > > > I've built a package called GSPrintFilter that uses ghostscript to be able > > to print to a variety of printers, including most HP Deskjets. It's > > available at peak. > > > > for GSPrintFilter > > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/utils/printer/ > > > > for ghostscript > > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/graphics/postscript/ > > > > p.s. I'll be uploading a newer version (1.40) of GSPrintFilter soon that > > fixes a few small bugs. > > > > -- > > Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) > > Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ > > Mathematics and Statistics > > University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: sabell@argonet.co.uk (Stuart Bell) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:20:57 +0100 Organization: himself, and him alone. Message-ID: <1dfiit4.1vl17h1sw2x73N@userm639.uk.uudial.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> <1dfixup.z35wgm1ka0v09N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> Geoffrey Peters <quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com> wrote: > > Geoffrey Peters (quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com) wrote: > > > > : As a note to the story, an interesting tidbit. Did you know, that Bill > > : Gates' first major sale was "Apple Floating Point BASIC" for the Apple > > : II computer? > > > > What about CBM BASIC on the PET? Was that not a major sale? It > > predates Applesoft. > > Y'know, I'd completely forgotten about that. On the day that Acorn joined Commodore in the Computing Hall of Fame. -- Stuart Bell writing from a Wintel-free zone.
From: jjlehltg@somethingfunny.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: WOW!!! WHAT A STORY ONLINE!!! Date: 17 Sep 1998 16:05:40 GMT Organization: Northwestern Indiana Telephone Co. Message-ID: <6trc0k$vt3$231@hyperion.nitco.com> I happen to have dropped by http://www.despotovic.net and I couldn't believe what I saw. A complete case online with over 48 pictures, 3 police reports and more!!! Regards. P.S.- The website address is http://www.despotovic.net
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GhostScript Date: 17 Sep 1998 13:00:04 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Message-ID: <6tr14k$f2l$1@unlnews.unl.edu> References: <36001310.8D77129B@geocities.com> In article <36001310.8D77129B@geocities.com> Benne <mikego@geocities.com> writes: > you understood my question :-) > Could you give me an explanation step-by-step on how to install a HP > Deskjet, because I am new with Openstep. Presumably (that's a big one (-; ), the README that accompanies GSPrintFilter contains such a step-by-step set of instructions already. Now, after that, if you don't understand or have questions, I'll be happy to help you out. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln > Rex Dieter wrote: > > > In article <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Benne <mikego@geocities.com> > > writes: > > > ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erkl ren > > > kann, was ich tun mu , damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskjet > > > unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu > > > > I'm going to GUESS (-; this is a question on how to get/use Ghostscript to > > use an HP Deskjet printer under NEXTSTEP/OpenStep. > > > > I've built a package called GSPrintFilter that uses ghostscript to be able > > to print to a variety of printers, including most HP Deskjets. It's > > available at peak. > > for GSPrintFilter > > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/utils/printer/ > > for ghostscript > > http://www.peak.org/next/apps/graphics/postscript/ > > p.s. I'll be uploading a newer version (1.40) of GSPrintFilter soon that > > fixes a few small bugs.
From: "Bryce Barnes" <bryceb@luminet.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT ADB Question. Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:42:23 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6trs1t$99j@enews3.newsguy.com> I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to use a NeXT ADB mouse or Keyboard on a Macintosh. And what about a NeXT monitor would it compatible with a mac? Thanks. Bryce B. bbarnes@fastenal.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6trc0k$vt3$231@hyperion.nitco.com> Control: cancel <6trc0k$vt3$231@hyperion.nitco.com> Date: 17 Sep 1998 16:05:35 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6trc0k$vt3$231@hyperion.nitco.com> Sender: jjlehltg@somethingfunny.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: REMOVE_ericleif@mindspring.com (eric leif) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:00:12 -0500 Organization: none Message-ID: <MPG.106b5e87fc3e31579896d4@news.mindspring.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <p5zpc9mjus.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86d895ghbd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <6too8i$19n@gap.cco.caltech.edu> <867lz2onj0.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> In article <867lz2onj0.fsf@bitbox.follo.net>, eivind@yes.no says... > That's what you need to have a fully reproducable build. I still > haven't seen anybody that have actually done the exercise - if there > are any that know that this work (in practice, not in theory), I'd be > happy if they speak up. Otherwise, you're just hoping you have a > reproducable build, because in theory it should be - but most builds > are in theory reproducable, so that is pretty uninteresting. I thought of making a distribution that is purely source and the installation would build everything and install the binaries. Which would be quite a task :). It could be done and as soon as all these auto-tools are stable and used by all the main packages it could be done fairly easily. The largest problem is bootstraping the compiler. Although there is one exception, the booter would need to be already compiled, i guess.
From: kskeithley@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:47:35 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6trp0n$lo0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> In article <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com>, psmith@baynetworks.com wrote: > Again, interoperability is most often not an issue in X. Certainly I > agree; if TOG changes the X protocol I imagine that will be relatively > painless This is an example of people inventing things. The Open Group has no intention of changing the X protocol. The Open Group can no more change the X11 protocol than ANSI can change ASCII or ISO can change 8859-1. These are published standards. Spreading this sort of disinformation is not helpful. > In return, XFree gets squat. They don't even get to call their product > X11 anymore. More disinformation. Nothing The Open Group has said or done requires XFree86 to stop calling their product X11. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: kskeithley@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:02:51 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6trptb$mfb$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> In article <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com>, Theo de Raadt <deraadt@zeus.theos.com> wrote: > psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) writes: > > I think that XFree86 is large enough that TOG cannot change the protocol. > They claim to own the standard, and claim to be able to change it if they > want to. > > I think this isn't true. You got that part right. > I hope it isn't true. They can try it, I guess. > I think they will lose. I hope they will lose. Well, one out of five ain't bad. X11 is a published standard. As I said in another reply, The Open Group is not going to try to change the standard. No more so that ANSI would try to change ASCII or ISO would try to change 8859-1. > > In return, XFree gets squat. They don't even get to call their product > > X11 anymore. > > I do not believe that TOG is going to win any battle at stopping > XFree86 from using the X11 name. As I indicated in a direct reply to Paul's post, The Open Group is not attempting to stop XFree86 from calling their product X11. Any attempt to suggest otherwise is the product of a fevered brain. Go take some Aspirin Theo. > Sorry, Kaleb, this is a battle you will lose. A battle that I will lose? What battle is it you think I am fighting? (Personally I'm sort of struggling with the fact that I even bother to rise to your continuing baiting. But as long as you keep posting these untruths, I'll try to dispell them.) > > Again, I can't find even one iota of upside for the free software > > community in TOG's decision. > > I totally respect TOG's wish to go commercial. That's fine. > > But their mixing of commercial product, name, and futhermore > _standard_ is simply DESPICABLE. Now we're back to whether or not someone is entitled to do what they wish with their own intellectual property. You say one thing. Your actions tell another. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT ADB Question. Date: 17 Sep 1998 22:20:12 GMT Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <906070812.472760@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <6trs1t$99j@enews3.newsguy.com> Cache-Post-Path: watserv4.uwaterloo.ca!unknown@bcr11.uwaterloo.ca In article <6trs1t$99j@enews3.newsguy.com>, Bryce Barnes <bryceb@luminet.net> wrote: > > I was just wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to use a NeXT ADB >mouse or Keyboard on a Macintosh. And what about a NeXT monitor would it >compatible with a mac? > Keyboards, probably. Monitor--depends which one. You could likely make the colour monitors work with an appropriate adapter and video mode from the Mac but there's no hope for the mono ones. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: hmn@realtime.net (Hung Michael Nguyen) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 17 Sep 1998 20:18:24 -0500 Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Message-ID: <6tscd0$iu4@vern.bga.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> <6tpo00$rlc@lace.colorado.edu> <slrn701dkq.2jc.jeffr@ronnej.rcn.orst.edu> In article <slrn701dkq.2jc.jeffr@ronnej.rcn.orst.edu>, Jeff Ronne <jvr@orst.edu> wrote: >I think the original issue, was about rebuilding [the core of] >a Linux distribution, which doesn't happen very often. There >are, however, a large number of Linux users that rebuild the >kernel. When I first compiled a linux kernel (a few years ago), I >saw it as a right of passage, that rewarded me with a optimized >kernel that supported all of my hardware. Now with precompiled >modular kernels it isn't really necessary for most users. I >am sure that a higher percentage of FreeBSD users rebuild both >their entire system and just their kernels. Rebuilding the world from source is the easiest way to update a FreeBSD system between releases. You just 'cd /usr/src && make buildworld' to (re)build the whole OS and then 'make installworld' to install the newly compiled OS onto your system. Or 'make world' to do both. It's so easy, I have a script which uses cvsup to update my source tree and then rebuilds the world every night. If you tweak the right knobs, it's easy to get the build time to around ~1 hour for the whole OS on a PII/233. One of the things I like about FreeBSD is that a single cvsup command will update my entire source tree (or even local CVS repository if I wanted), and then a single command will rebuild the entire operating system from source. No hunting around for this, that, and the other, wondering if the combo will work. Mike.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc From: Ingmar Camphausen <ingmar@aurora.in-berlin.de> Subject: Re: GhostScript Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-ID: <1998Sep17.234634.10824@aurora.in-berlin.de> Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin Sender: ingmar@aurora.in-berlin.de (Ingmar Camphausen) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: INDIVIDUAL NETWORK Berlin References: <35FEE58C.D8D11E55@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:46:34 GMT [F'up!] In comp.sys.next.sysadmin Benne <mikego@geocities.com> wrote: : ich wollte nur mal fragen, ob mir nicht einer mal auf deutsch erklären : kann, was ich tun muß, damit ich mit GhostScript mit meinem HP Deskjet : unter Openstep 4.2 / Intel drucken kann. Das System habe ich ganz neu : und daher kenne ich mich noch nicht so gut aus und verstehe die : englische Anleitung nicht ganz. [Benne asks for step-by-step instructions on how to install GhostScript so he can print using from OPENSTEP 4.2 for Intel with his HP DeskJet.] If you're not offended by having to read a German text, you might try to get a copy of the last issue of the "NEXTTOYOU", the world's only NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/Rhapsody magazine. (It's in German, as it is made and published by German-speaking people, though.) Issue 2/98 features an article by regular NEXTTOYOU contributor Anke Ehlers, titled "Drucken wie von Geisterhand" ["Printing as of a ghost's hand"], that describes exactly what Benne looks for: using GhostScript as a printer driver for non-PostScript printers under NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP. -- The article even uses a HP DeskJet as an example! :-) Ingmar About NEXTTOYOU: NEXTTOYOU is the German magazine for all users of NeXT and Apple technology. The only NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/Rhapsody magazine worldwide, it aims to provide the OPENSTEP and Yellow Box community with a platform for both neophytes and professionals. NEXTTOYOU appears quarterly at season's start and can be reached via http://www.nexttoyou.de/ or via mailto:abo@nexttoyou.de. __ __ \_V_/ ___Y___ +-----------+ |\__/. .\ Ingmar Camphausen | USE PGP! |\ O---m /| \ \_____/| ingmar@in-berlin.de | (key via server |/`-------'\| \_U__////_/ (NeXTmail/MIME OK!) | or on request) +-----------+ -- Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance
From: jbuck@best.com (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 17 Sep 1998 19:03:30 -0700 Organization: Best Internet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6tsf1i$s1d$1@shell17.ba.best.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6tkha7$j9v@lace.colorado.edu> <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> <6tpo00$rlc@lace.colorado.edu> Frank Crary <fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote: >The point is stated above and clearly stated in my original post. >Someone asked about how often people ``rebuild Linux from scratch''. The reason for the confusion is that someone previously mentioned the "make world" feature of FreeBSD -- I think a number of people were asking for the Linux equivalent, which is of course distribution-independent. Of course, you can ask only to build the kernel in FreeBSD. >The reply implied that FreeBSD was a ``distribution'' rather than >a kernel, and therefore the question was incorrectly stated. I simply >pointed out that this is incorrect, since FreeBSD is both a kernel >and a distribution. Let's just say that it was ambiguous, and the way we know that is that several folks were confused. > So the question (as I said before, in text >which you deleted) is how often Linux users rebuild the Linux >kernel, compared to how often FreeBSD users rebuild the FreeBSD >kernel. OK, now we're getting somewhere. I suspect that people rebuild the Linux kernel more, because there are a large group of people who download and build the latest development kernel, and these come out more than once a week. But a lot of that isn't necessary for anything, some folks just enjoy it. :-) But many users are running the same kernel they built more than a year ago. So it depends. -- -- Joe Buck work: jbuck@synopsys.com, otherwise jbuck@welsh-buck.org or jbuck@best.com http://www.welsh-buck.org/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: The Clinton, Starr Report in FULL From: lvqmsxpp@starr-report.com Organization: Your Organization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART_BOUNDARY_LWNOUQEEOR" Message-ID: <GxkM1.2522$bj5.220566@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 03:35:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:35:02 EST --PART_BOUNDARY_LWNOUQEEOR Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="test.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="test.html" Content-Base: "file:///C|/test.html" <BASE HREF="file:///C|/test.html"> <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE></TITLE> <SCRIPT language="JavaScript"> <!-- B = open("http://www.horny-world.com/jjj/") blur(B) //--> </SCRIPT> </HEAD> <BODY> </BODY> </HTML> --PART_BOUNDARY_LWNOUQEEOR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Read the report, see the pictures! http://www.horny-world.com/jjj/
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 18 Sep 1998 01:30:29 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Sep 1998 05:30:31 GMT %% Theo de Raadt <deraadt@zeus.theos.com> writes: >> Again, I can't find even one iota of upside for the free software >> community in TOG's decision. tdr> I totally respect TOG's wish to go commercial. That's fine. But Les's comment was that "both [Xfree and TOG] will gain". So far no one has provided me with the "win" side for anyone but TOG. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:44:47 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <36037D0F.15FB7483@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <jeremyEz4u77.J51@netcom.com> <6ti8hp$lsi$1@Venus.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leslie Mikesell wrote: ] >Demonstrably false. Buy a Whistle Interjet (now there's a ] >good idea :-). ] ] Why would I buy it if I can build one for free? (Actually that's a ] serious question, although off-topic for here. I can't tell how much ] of the thing is custom and how much isn't from the web blurb.) Because the free software community has proven to be rather inept at the task of productization. Unless you start getting technical writers to document free software and commercial artists to build UI for free software, and systems engineers to do integration for free software... basically, free software lacks productization, since it's not a fun thing to do, for most people. That's the problem with a community composed mostly of technical people -- the same thing that lends it strength is the same thing that detracts from its general utility to non-technical people. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:40:24 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <36037C08.794BDF32@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leslie Mikesell wrote: ] Are you too young to remember that electronic messaging did not start ] with the spec for TCP, SMTP, and MIME in place along with easily ] available Internet connections? Leslie's got you here... networking started with the old "Berknet" serial network, at the University of California, Berkeley. Before that, there was the UUCP G protocol, from the University of California, Berkeley. If you want to go back to some of the earliest mail programs, such as "send" and "recv", seperate programs for sending and retrieving mail, written by an undergraduate names Greg Haerr, then you would have to look to the University of California, San Diego (these are the same guys who brought you UCSD Pascal, upon which the Macintosh QuickDraw code was based, since Apple got the only non-revokable UCSD P-code license). Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:56:30 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <36037FCE.1CFBAE39@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <jeremyEzAJ4B.xI@netcom.com> <6tkvhq$4gq$1@Mars.mcs.net> <jeremyEzC348.2v0@netcom.com> <6tnfs6$6n$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leslie Mikesell wrote: ] >I'm glad at least they've gone to TCP now for NCP, but ] >I wish they'd fully document it. I did hear an amusing ] >story that I tend to believe, that Novell were considering ] >submitting NCP for standardization, but decided not to ] >after the hard time that Microsoft got from Andrew Tridgell ] >over how crap their protocols was at the first CIFS ] >conference (I was there - I believe it - he did give them ] >a *lot* of grief :-). ] ] My impression of the core protocol from that old version was that ] it was better than anything Microsoft could have written at the ] time. Perhaps it was really derived from IBM's PC NET, and MS ] added the later cruft. As one of the people who had to reverse engineer the x86 code to C for the NetWare for UNIX product, I can assure you that while the NCP call set is logically complete, it is not completely logical. In addition, because the client SDK's supported all of the old interfaces, no one in their right mind wrote code to only the new interfaces, since that would limit their potential market. As a result, there were more than 438 NCP packet types that a server had to support in order to be compatible with all recent client code. AFAIK, no code was *ever* grandfathered out. NCP put the "backward" in "backward compatability". Note that this is in no small part responsible for Novells large market, and their continuing success to this day. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:59:29 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <36038081.3F54BC7E@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6trp0n$lo0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kskeithley@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > In article <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com>, > psmith@baynetworks.com wrote: ] The Open Group can no more change the X11 protocol than ] ANSI can change ASCII or ISO can change 8859-1. ...or Microsoft can change TCP/IP. Uh, wait a minute... FIN_WAIT_2, anyone? Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: rpw3@rigden.engr.sgi.com (Rob Warnock) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 19 Sep 1998 13:32:17 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <6u0bp1$49qr@fido.engr.sgi.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <36037C08.794BDF32@spam.me> terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: +--------------- | Before that, there was the UUCP G protocol, from the University | of California, Berkeley. +--------------- ExCUUze me??!? UCB didn't write UUCP's G protocol, Greg Chesson did, back at Bell Labs. (Not UUCP itself, that was an even earlier Bell Labs effort, he just wrote the G protocol.) FWIW, Greg [at SGI for the last decade or so] was also the author of XTP... -Rob [p.s. Apologies in advance: Email'd replies may get a "vacation" bounce message while I'm on sabbatical from SGI...] ----- Rob Warnock, 8L-855 rpw3@sgi.com Applied Networking http://reality.sgi.com/rpw3/ Silicon Graphics, Inc. Phone: 650-933-1673 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. FAX: 650-964-0811 Mountain View, CA 94043 PP-ASEL-IA
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:39:58 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <3603B42E.695678E2@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Stump wrote: ] >] You can take any GPL software, put an arbitrary price tag on ] >] it and sell it to anybody you want (under the GPL). ] > ] >No, you can't: [ ... ] ] If your only point was, you can't sell it, you can only charge for the ] physical act of transferring a copy, man, get a life! ] ] What was your point? That was my point. I guess I need to "get a life". Oh, and there's the little bit about "being paid to be a distributor instead of a software engineer", and about "spending the rest of my life in a job-shop instead of a royalty shop". If you grant that someone can build a building and rent office space over and over without having to build a new building, it seems reasonable that I should be able to put forth equivalent effort to buld software and be able to license it over and over. Of course, there are those who say "all software should be breeely available"; to those people, I say "call me when my free office space is ready; in the mean time, I'll be over here, selling my software...". Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: Craig Brozefsky <craig@onshore.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 19 Sep 1998 09:11:35 -0500 Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <87zpbw2nvs.fsf@duomo.onshore.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com> <3603B42E.695678E2@spam.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > If you grant that someone can build a building and rent > office space over and over without having to build a new > building, it seems reasonable that I should be able to > put forth equivalent effort to buld software and be able > to license it over and over. Except that you can't trivially copy office buildings.
From: fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 19 Sep 1998 22:28:53 GMT Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Message-ID: <6u1b75$n39@lace.colorado.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn701dkq.2jc.jeffr@ronnej.rcn.orst.edu> <6tscd0$iu4@vern.bga.com> <slrn705u54.4m.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-User: fcrary In article <slrn705u54.4m.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk>, Alastair <alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>Rebuilding the world from source is the easiest way to update a FreeBSD >>system between releases. You just 'cd /usr/src && make buildworld' to >>(re)build the whole OS and then 'make installworld' to install the newly >>compiled OS onto your system. Or 'make world' to do both. It's so easy, >Perhaps. However, many (most?) don't want to rebuild the entire system from >scratch that often. No, not often. But often enough that I care about how easy it is. It's a good idea to rebuild the kernel as soon as you have the OS installed (to customize it for your individual hardware and needs) and rebuilding everything is a good idea after installing a new major version of the OS. That's often enough that I care whether it takes minutes or hours of my time. >...Everything keeps rolling along smoothly. My experience is >primarily Irix and Linux. Was that your experience going from IRIX 5.* to 6.*? Every IRIX machine I heard of either had to recompile at least a third of the user software, or have various disfunctional software. Frank Crary CU Boulder
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: The NEXTSTEP FAQ on peanuts...? Date: 19 Sep 1998 19:59:27 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <6u12ev$gb4$7@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <2IPM1.4182$JW5.14744154@news.rdc1.md.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: woodford@cc181716-a.hwrd1.md.home.com In <2IPM1.4182$JW5.14744154@news.rdc1.md.home.com> Bill Woodford wrote: > Hey All, I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the FAQ > on peanuts? I was looking at it earlier this week in preparation for > getting some parts and booting my next system for the first time. Only > thing, sometime yesterday, it went away. Anyone know where it went, or > where I can find a mirror of the FAQ? Thanks. > Your right. I can't seem to find it there. There has to be a copy of this at peak. Ok. I guess it's getting near time to work on a New FAQ. Anyone out there who wants to help e-mail me. I've got to finish work on a ongoing project and then finish off the new upgraded AntCam section of ChannelU, before I get back to the NeXT part of my site. Randy rencsok at channelu dot com argus dot cem dot msu dot edu spammers works also :) Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.)
From: alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk (Alastair) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:16:18 GMT Message-ID: <slrn705u54.4m.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> <6tpo00$rlc@lace.colorado.edu> <slrn701dkq.2jc.jeffr@ronnej.rcn.orst.edu> <6tscd0$iu4@vern.bga.com> Hung Michael Nguyen <hmn@realtime.net> wrote: > >Rebuilding the world from source is the easiest way to update a FreeBSD >system between releases. You just 'cd /usr/src && make buildworld' to >(re)build the whole OS and then 'make installworld' to install the newly >compiled OS onto your system. Or 'make world' to do both. It's so easy, >I have a script which uses cvsup to update my source tree and then rebuilds >the world every night. If you tweak the right knobs, it's easy to get >the build time to around ~1 hour for the whole OS on a PII/233. Perhaps. However, many (most?) don't want to rebuild the entire system from scratch that often. Everything keeps rolling along smoothly. My experience is primarily Irix and Linux. Irix is by far the more difficult/troublesome. I put this down to the higher quality inherent in free software (like Linux and FreeBSD). Having said that, Irix has to cope with 'custom' hardware and other things :) I would like to see SGI's forthcoming PC (Visual PC) running a free OS (rather than NT). It would be even nicer to see SGI support this - in any way at all. >No hunting around for this, that, and the other, wondering if the combo will >work. I don't seem to have this problem either (touch wood) - upgrades or installations are almost always straightforward. I have a P 100 (fairly old) at home and a new kernel takes ~ 20 mins. A PII 233 at work takes < 2 mins. Cheers! -- Alastair work : alastair@psoft.co.uk home : alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk
From: alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk (Alastair) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:22:48 GMT Message-ID: <slrn705uhc.4m.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6tkha7$j9v@lace.colorado.edu> <vyzyarl4sxa.fsf@issan.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> <6tpo00$rlc@lace.colorado.edu> <6tsf1i$s1d$1@shell17.ba.best.com> Joe Buck <jbuck@best.com> wrote: > >OK, now we're getting somewhere. I suspect that people rebuild the >Linux kernel more, because there are a large group of people who download >and build the latest development kernel, and these come out more than >once a week. But a lot of that isn't necessary for anything, some folks >just enjoy it. :-) This is true. Who knows? Supposedly there are a lot more Linux users. >But many users are running the same kernel they built more than a year >ago. So it depends. Agreed again. I'm one of those that stays on the 'stable' builds because all is well and I have no need to change anything (kernel-wise) - except the odd upgrade. The last was 2.0.21 -> 2.0.33 about a year ago (or whatever). BTW - I'm just 'pro-unix' not any particular flavour. It's a philosophical thing really :) -- Alastair work : alastair@psoft.co.uk home : alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: The NEXTSTEP FAQ on peanuts...? Organization: @Home Network From: woodford@cc181716-a.hwrd1.md.home.com (Bill Woodford) Message-ID: <2IPM1.4182$JW5.14744154@news.rdc1.md.home.com> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:02:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:02:22 PDT Hey All, I was wondering if anyone knows what happened to the FAQ on peanuts? I was looking at it earlier this week in preparation for getting some parts and booting my next system for the first time. Only thing, sometime yesterday, it went away. Anyone know where it went, or where I can find a mirror of the FAQ? Thanks. -- Bill Woodford * woodford@cc181716-a.hwrd1.md.home.com ICQ:14076169 * Windows Multitasking: messing up several things at once Volunteer Coordinator Otakon 1999, someplace at sometime.
From: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 19 Sep 1998 15:29:59 GMT Organization: CampusMCI Message-ID: <slrn7075hm.f72.mwfunk@foo.bar.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com> <3603B42E.695678E2@spam.me> <87zpbw2nvs.fsf@duomo.onshore.com> On 19 Sep 1998 09:11:35 -0500, Craig Brozefsky <craig@onshore.com> wrote: >terry <dont@spam.me> writes: > >> If you grant that someone can build a building and rent >> office space over and over without having to build a new >> building, it seems reasonable that I should be able to >> put forth equivalent effort to buld software and be able >> to license it over and over. > >Except that you can't trivially copy office buildings. By the same token, nor can you trivially create software! The cost of duplication is hardly the only cost associated with the product. Really, if you're going to use relative ease of copying as being the defining factor in whether or not a particular item can be considered private property, then you might as well go all the way and do away with all intellectual property, period. Music, books, etc. can all be stored in digital formats and trivially copied. I'm sorry if I'm reading things into your statement that aren't there. I'm responding to the oft-repeated notion that because it's so easy to copy software, that software takes on some magical quality such that it is immoral to claim it as private property. I'm not referring to specific licensing issues here, rather the whole GNU philosophy, which would maintain that *all* software is GPL'd, it's just that the government doesn't see things that way, current IP law is screwed up, etc. etc. etc. I don't think Terry was arguing against free software so much as the idea that *all* software has to be free software. There is a place for proprietary software, namely the areas where free software doesn't fill the void, or does so inadequately (or where someone just plain likes the proprietary product better than the free alternative!). Making money is nice too. Mike
From: "Robert E. Watts" <watscarb@one.net> Subject: Very entertaining...so far Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> <1dfixup.z35wgm1ka0v09N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <1dfiit4.1vl17h1sw2x73N@userm639.uk.uudial.com> Organization: WHIZZBANG COMPUTERS Message-ID: <01bde3fc$b01d0ec0$b36432d1@robertwa> Date: 19 Sep 1998 14:42:03 -0500 Hi ! This is a great thread. I would like to see more *factual* information put forth concerning one of my favorite hobbies, computer history. ( Or, I need a good reason to spend so much time on these things. ) I was unaware of the Xerox Star, but was very aware of the importance of Xerox in the early stages of GUI development, and other computer hardware. I have always thought that if Xerox had been more of a player in the early days, we may all be staring at Xerox computers, and a Xerox GUI of some kind. I can offer very little, but would direct you're attentions to the PBS documentary " Triumph of the Nerds". It's a brief synopsis of this topic, and very interesting. bobwatts -- ***************************************** Bob Watts Whizzbang Computers Watts Carburetion Service Since 1984 Cincinnati, Ohio Earth ***************************************
From: George Massenburg <gmlinc@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: History of the GUI? Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:14:12 -0500 Organization: GML, Inc. Message-ID: <36048113.72B1@ix.netcom.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> <1dfixup.z35wgm1ka0v09N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <1dfiit4.1vl17h1sw2x73N@userm639.uk.uudial.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Geoffrey Peters <quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com> wrote: > > > > Geoffrey Peters (quantic@iname.SPAMBLOCK.com) wrote: > > > > > > : As a note to the story, an interesting tidbit. Did you know, that Bill > > > : Gates' first major sale was "Apple Floating Point BASIC" for the Apple > > > : II computer? > > > > > > What about CBM BASIC on the PET? Was that not a major sale? It > > > predates Applesoft. > > > > Y'know, I'd completely forgotten about that. > I bought an early copy (what, 1978?) of Kim Basic from Paul Allen when they were still in New Mexico. The RAM for the damn KIM was something like $1000/4kb. I thought it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen in my life. George Massenburg gmlinc@ix.netcom.com
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:00:25 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <36043789.DF28BB44@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6sqifj$5rs$1@Mars.mcs.net> <6t06j1$leh@graves.maths.tcd.ie> <35FBCBB2.5B5C4F77@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <6tjc5p$5ie$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Sep 1998 23:00:12 GMT Leslie Mikesell wrote: > > In article <35FBCBB2.5B5C4F77@forsee.tcp.co.uk>, > Robert Forsyth <bobbyr@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: > >I know a graphic artist who designed fonts, but someone would come along > >and alter a serif and call it his own font... Needless to say, this > >graphic artist doesn't do fonts anymore. > > Fonts are a special case in the copyright system - you can trademark > the name, but you can't protect the shape. Personally I think the > world would get along just fine if everyone quit designing new font > shapes. On the other hand, I think much of the popularity of > MS-windows and Macs vs. X based machines has to do with the effort > put into making fonts render cleanly on VGA resolution displays. > > Les Mikesell > les@mcs.com I was kind of hoping to draw your attention to, it similar in programming, you can't realy copyright a program, only the source code, but then X could change it a bit and call it their own. But, doing so tends to "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs". From memory, in England and Whales, we have: Trademarks for pictures, logos and names Patents for inventions and solutions Music copyright for music (and songs) Copyright for texts Licensing for the use of something -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk (Alastair) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:19:19 GMT Message-ID: <slrn708ims.52.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <slrn701dkq.2jc.jeffr@ronnej.rcn.orst.edu> <6tscd0$iu4@vern.bga.com> <slrn705u54.4m.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> <6u1b75$n39@lace.colorado.edu> Frank Crary <fcrary@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> wrote: >In article <slrn705u54.4m.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk>, >Alastair <alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >>Perhaps. However, many (most?) don't want to rebuild the entire system from >>scratch that often. > >No, not often. But often enough that I care about how easy it is. Another one! > >>...Everything keeps rolling along smoothly. My experience is >>primarily Irix and Linux. > >Was that your experience going from IRIX 5.* to 6.*? Every IRIX >machine I heard of either had to recompile at least a third of >the user software, or have various disfunctional software. IRIX tends to be a complete re-install going from one major version to another, at least to be on the 'safe' side (for the OS upgrade). It has some fairly good tools to do software installation and upgrade - this is good because you have to continually patch both OS and applications :( I have to deal with more dysfunctional software on the SGI - but hey, I work in tech support for applications running on SGI :) Cheers. -- Alastair work : alastair@psoft.co.uk home : alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 19 Sep 1998 21:42:28 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6u1q2k$jqc$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> In article <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com>, Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: > > >> Again, I can't find even one iota of upside for the free software > >> community in TOG's decision. > > tdr> I totally respect TOG's wish to go commercial. That's fine. > >But Les's comment was that "both [Xfree and TOG] will gain". > >So far no one has provided me with the "win" side for anyone but TOG. What about the people who need the features that the free version is unable to provide? Isn't it a win for them to have a choice? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Ben <mikego@geocities.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Openstep - game over Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:11:31 +0200 Organization: Berlin Message-ID: <3604D4D3.F36664FA@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello I made a script for vmount to mount my partitions. If I run the script, the partitions were mounted. (Hope you can understand my English :-) So I opened Preferences and wrote the script into the Preferences as "login hook". Now I logged out and wanted to log in again. But it wasn't possible to log in. I wrote into the login window root and the right password. Then he began loading and after ca. 5 seconds there was the login window again. If I enter the wrong password the login window only blinks, so I really entered the right password. I tried it with other user accounts, but it was the same. Then I booted with the option config=Default, but it was again the same. Now I don't know what to do? Do I have to delete Openstep? Do you have any idea? Perhaps do you know if it is possible to boot only the unix-mach system without the Graphical User Interface, so that I can delete the script and then boot with the Graphical User Interface? Or what can I do to rescue my system? Greetings, Benjamin
From: x557@mindspringNOSPAM.com (x557@mindspringNOSPAM.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Q] SCSI CARD AND CD-ROM Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 03:48:51 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <36057a99.3718556@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am needing a Scsi card and scsi cd-rom to install Openstep 4.2 for mach. I do not use other scsi things, and only need it the first time to install the operating system. Does anyone have any ideas on where I could find a cheap scsi card and cd-rom? (I'm about to post a message in the next.marketplace) I have looked at some of the online auctions, and have been able to find some of the "Adaptec 154x ISA" cards. Does anyone know if these are any good? They do not seem to be that expensive (around $35.). Any ideas on a cheap cd-rom? I assume I can use any scsi cd-rom? Thanks! (p.s. please remove the NOSPAM)
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 20 Sep 1998 13:12:07 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2n27v6nso.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6u1q2k$jqc$1@Mercury.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Sep 1998 11:12:08 GMT les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com>, > Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: > > > > >> Again, I can't find even one iota of upside for the free software > > >> community in TOG's decision. > > > > tdr> I totally respect TOG's wish to go commercial. That's fine. > > > >But Les's comment was that "both [Xfree and TOG] will gain". > > > >So far no one has provided me with the "win" side for anyone but TOG. > > What about the people who need the features that the free version > is unable to provide? Isn't it a win for them to have a choice? Why bother at all with free software? You have the biggest choice if you are willing to pay arbitrary amounts for single-user licenses. Isn't it a win to have the maximum choice? -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <25036905659241@digifix.com> Date: 20 Sep 1998 03:47:47 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <24796906264032@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:54:22 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <3604ECEE.1CFBAE39@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <36037C08.794BDF32@spam.me> <6u0bp1$49qr@fido.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob Warnock wrote: ] +--------------- ] | Before that, there was the UUCP G protocol, from the University ] | of California, Berkeley. ] +--------------- ] ] ExCUUze me??!? UCB didn't write UUCP's G protocol, Greg Chesson ] did, back at Bell Labs. (Not UUCP itself, that was an even ] earlier Bell Labs effort, he just wrote the G protocol.) ] ] FWIW, Greg [at SGI for the last decade or so] was also the ] author of XTP... WHOOPS! Sorry about the misattribution... it also makes it a bad example, if it wan't freely licensed and/or public domain... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 05:07:42 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <3604F00E.3F54BC7E@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t5327$bih$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <m290jtk8ln.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <35F772BD.2781E494@spam.me> <EzELF3.LpL@kithrup.com> <3603B42E.695678E2@spam.me> <87zpbw2nvs.fsf@duomo.onshore.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Brozefsky wrote: ] > If you grant that someone can build a building and rent ] > office space over and over without having to build a new ] > building, it seems reasonable that I should be able to ] > put forth equivalent effort to buld software and be able ] > to license it over and over. ] ] Except that you can't trivially copy office buildings. You can't trivially copy enhancements to software; if you could, you wouldn't need the GPL. Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 21 Sep 1998 12:57:56 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p5vhmhtncb.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6u1q2k$jqc$1@Mercury.mcs.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Sep 1998 16:57:58 GMT %% les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: lm> In article <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com>, lm> Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: >> But Les's comment was that "both [Xfree and TOG] will gain". >> So far no one has provided me with the "win" side for anyone but TOG. lm> What about the people who need the features that the free version lm> is unable to provide? Isn't it a win for them to have a choice? So you're saying that with the old licensing, they didn't? I think events may have overtaken this discussion such as to render it completely ridiculous, though... :) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 21 Sep 1998 13:08:43 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6u64nb$4n2$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6u1q2k$jqc$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <p5vhmhtncb.fsf@baynetworks.com> In article <p5vhmhtncb.fsf@baynetworks.com>, Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: >%% les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > > lm> In article <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com>, > lm> Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> wrote: > > >> But Les's comment was that "both [Xfree and TOG] will gain". > > >> So far no one has provided me with the "win" side for anyone but TOG. > > lm> What about the people who need the features that the free version > lm> is unable to provide? Isn't it a win for them to have a choice? > >So you're saying that with the old licensing, they didn't? They had them to the extent that someone was willing to write them for free or to fund development of a free version. If that isn't the case, it is better to have a choice of getting something you need in a non-free version than not having it at all. >I think events may have overtaken this discussion such as to render it >completely ridiculous, though... :) No, I think the discussion was correct in that people don't really want extensions that aren't available everywhere. However I haven't followed the current state of affairs. Does development still have funding? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Pascal Bourguignon <pbourgui@afaa.asso.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Openstep - game over Date: 21 Sep 1998 21:07:51 GMT Organization: None Message-ID: <6u6f77$7rl$1@news.imaginet.fr> References: <3604D4D3.F36664FA@geocities.com> <EzLoH4.7CI@merlin.in-berlin.de> ergo@camelot.in-berlin.de (Olaf Foellinger) wrote: >In <3604D4D3.F36664FA@geocities.com> Ben wrote: >> Hello >> >>I made a script for vmount to mount my partitions. If I run the script, >>the partitions were mounted. (Hope you can understand my English :-) >>So I opened Preferences and wrote the script into the Preferences as >>"login hook". Now I logged out and wanted to log in again. But it wasn't >>possible to log in. I wrote into the login window root and the right >>password. Then he began loading and after ca. 5 seconds there was the >>login window again. If I enter the wrong password the login window only >>blinks, so I really entered the right password. I tried it with other >>user accounts, but it was the same. >>Then I booted with the option config=Default, but it was again the same. >>Now I don't know what to do? Do I have to delete Openstep? >>Do you have any idea? >>Perhaps do you know if it is possible to boot only the unix-mach system >>without the Graphical User Interface, so that I can delete the script >>and then boot with the Graphical User Interface? >>Or what can I do to rescue my system? > >Greetings, >Benjamin >With the boot option -s one can boot in single user as you desired. > >Greetings, >Olaf > >-- >Olaf Foellinger >NeXTMail & MIME welcome! > No, in this case, it's easier to log into the console: type 'console' instead of a login name, then the screen should show a big text window, emulating a terminal, in which you can log as with any other terminal. Log as root, then, use the command : dremove loginwindow LoginHook You may also log from another host, to do that, but the console window is nice. __Pascal Bourguignon__
From: greyling rainsong <bratling@iabervon.mit.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Date: 22 Sep 1998 02:04:42 GMT Organization: The Internet Connection Message-ID: <6u70jq$50k$1@bashir.ici.net> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Rob Campbell" <rjc@genrad.com> : >Jayfar wrote in message ... >>| > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, >>| > >namely: it's all written in C++. >>| Spoken like a true programmer. >>| >>| So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) >> >>Forth, of course. > >Prolog Speaking of which.... The original System 7 was written in Pascal.... Rob Mohns
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6u62u6$if$3521@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Control: cancel <6u62u6$if$3521@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Date: 22 Sep 1998 01:50:58 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6u62u6$if$3521@artemis.backbone.ou.edu> Sender: <myemail@any.where.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: TOG reverts X11 license (was: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: 21 Sep 1998 21:40:03 -0400 Organization: Bay Networks, Inc. / Billerica, MA Message-ID: <p567ehgc24.fsf@baynetworks.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> <jabtod19rz.fsf_-_@gatsby.u-net.com> <czpbxf9i5.fsf@zeus.theos.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Sep 1998 01:40:34 GMT %% Theo de Raadt <deraadt@zeus.theos.com> writes: tdr> Basically, in this same action TOG is now assuming the copyright tdr> and trademark of code that was previously owned by XC; tdr> furthermore they appear to be removing the XC copyright (which tdr> clearly states that it must not be removed). ?? TOG obtained all the copyrights and trademarks previously owned by XC when the XC became part of TOG. There's nothing new under the sun here, except perhaps they've actually changed some verbage in some files. They have every right to do so, and changing that wording doesn't actually change anything, since "Copyright The X Consortium" and "Copyright The Open Group" now mean the same thing. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
From: Joshua Gigantino <gigantin@shore.net> Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.atari.st.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <7fyasbaxpd.fsf@faith.csis.hku.hk> <35EC07BE.D5D@dai.ed.ac.uk> <6stfpo$j7b$6@news.idiom.com> <35F2D62B.MD-0.198.magic@bits.u-net.com> <6t0o9m$37r$3@news.idiom.com> <6t46ro$fi6@handupme.avid.com> <1dfcvsn.1jokrhz1bzsf3xN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <jayfar-1409980928510001@dyn-185.blackbox-5.netaxs.com> <6tjvjd$hsa@news.genrad.com> <6u70jq$50k$1@bashir.ici.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (SunOS/5.5.1 (sun4u)) Message-ID: <8UDN1.426$_c5.4065311@news.shore.net> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:25:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:25:08 EDT Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) In comp.sys.amiga.misc greyling rainsong <bratling@iabervon.mit.edu> wrote: > "Rob Campbell" <rjc@genrad.com> : >>Jayfar wrote in message ... >>>| > >BEOS suffers from a critical mistake in its implementation, >>>| > >namely: it's all written in C++. >>>| Spoken like a true programmer. (snarf!!) Glad I'm just a html slinger. 8) >>>| So what would you use for OS creation then? Pascal? SNOBOL? :-) >>>Forth, of course. >>Prolog > Speaking of which.... The original System 7 was written in Pascal.... Dammit! I want my multithreaded preemptive multitasking OS coded from the ground up in the ever-useful LOGO! 8) J05H > Rob Mohns
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 21 Sep 1998 13:28:49 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6u65t1$53p$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <36037FCE.1CFBAE39@spam.me> <6u3g10$4au$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <360612E5.2781E494@spam.me> In article <360612E5.2781E494@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: > >This isn't a very useful definition of NCP services. The Appletalk >implentation wighs in at under 32 calls for it to be logically >complete. I don't know enough about the low level functions to make any kind of argument, but I don't see how the number of calls is relevant at all. >The NCP services are, and have been, a proxying of the INT 21 >services over the wire to a remote host. No one can (reasonably) >argue that the BIOS INT 21 services are logically complete, nor >completely logical. But, they did provide what was needed at the time. To the extent that DOS dbase (foxpro, etc.) programs were usable, netbios provided the correct file locking operations for them (unlike unix where you can't create a locked file as an atomic operation, and where byte range locking wasn't standard at the time). And it provided for generic program <-> program communication for things like passing 3270 sessions over arbitrary transport layers. It may not be easy or elegant but it got the job done. It just didn't seem like a MicroSoft design. Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: Gabriel Morales <Togega@Yahoo.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Very entertaining...so far Date: 21 Sep 1998 22:11:34 PDT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <360731D3.C1FD914C@Yahoo.com> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> <1dfixup.z35wgm1ka0v09N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <1dfiit4.1vl17h1sw2x73N@userm639.uk.uudial.com> <01bde3fc$b01d0ec0$b36432d1@robertwa> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert E. Watts wrote: > > Hi ! > > This is a great thread. I would like to see more *factual* information put > forth concerning one of my favorite hobbies, computer history. ( Or, I need > a good reason to spend so much time on these things. ) > > I was unaware of the Xerox Star, but was very aware of the importance of > Xerox in the early stages of GUI development, and other computer hardware. > I have always thought that if Xerox had been more of a player in the early > days, we may all be staring at Xerox computers, and a Xerox GUI of some > kind. > > I can offer very little, but would direct you're attentions to the PBS > documentary " Triumph of the Nerds". It's a brief synopsis of this topic, > and very interesting. Well, I'd also like more factual information on the subject, as I'd like to write a brief history of the GUI & the Mac for a new Macintosh website. Leads anyone?
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <8cdc.3273.30c@my_system> Control: cancel <8cdc.3273.30c@my_system> Date: 22 Sep 1998 07:32:59 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.8cdc.3273.30c@my_system> Sender: MarkW <ntec@mustbuy.com> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Pat Gunn <pgunn01@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Openstep - game over Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:17:40 -0400 Organization: None Sender: gunn@cvl233037.columbus.rr.com Message-ID: <360716D4.3605@ibm.net> References: <3604D4D3.F36664FA@geocities.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben wrote: > > Hello > > I made a script for vmount to mount my partitions. If I run the script, > the partitions were mounted. (Hope you can understand my English :-) > So I opened Preferences and wrote the script into the Preferences as > "login hook". Now I logged out and wanted to log in again. But it wasn't > possible to log in. I wrote into the login window root and the right > password. Then he began loading and after ca. 5 seconds there was the > login window again. If I enter the wrong password the login window only > blinks, so I really entered the right password. I tried it with other > user accounts, but it was the same. > Then I booted with the option config=Default, but it was again the same. > Now I don't know what to do? Do I have to delete Openstep? > Do you have any idea? > Perhaps do you know if it is possible to boot only the unix-mach system > without the Graphical User Interface, so that I can delete the script > and then boot with the Graphical User Interface? > Or what can I do to rescue my system? login as "console" to get to a nonGUI login (sort of) -- --------------------------------------------------- Pat Gunn, moderator:comp.sys.newton.announce comoderator:comp.os.os2.moderated "You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -- Dr Who http://junior.apk.net/~qc ------------------------------------------------
From: james@no-such-thing-as-a.free-lunch.demon.co.uk(James Youngman) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 22 Sep 1998 09:13:51 +0100 Organization: Where? Message-ID: <x6vhmgftts.fsf@no-such-thing-as-a.free-lunch.demon.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <p5zpc9mjus.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86d895ghbd.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > "Hardened Linux" talked about having to modify some of the basic Red > Hat packages before they even would build (on Bugtraq, couple of weeks > ago). That is _not_ a reproducable build. This generally happens when a later version of a library is installed (from an RPM) as a security fix, and the newer version of the library breaks some innocent bystander program whose rebuilding wasn't checked before the release of the security update. (The alternative is that cases like this result in the other packages being reissued even though there is no security problem with them. I don't think that'd be a good idea) -- Actually reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
From: james@no-such-thing-as-a.free-lunch.demon.co.uk(James Youngman) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: GPL in propietary OSes (Was: What is BSD...) Date: 22 Sep 1998 09:10:01 +0100 Organization: Where? Message-ID: <x6ww6wfu06.fsf@no-such-thing-as-a.free-lunch.demon.co.uk> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <vc767fh9yii.fsf@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <86hfz1p0f8.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <m3yasca6q9.fsf@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6rvug3$f5d@lace.colorado.edu> <m3pvdndw8p.fsf_-_@kiteless.dyn.ml.org> <6s2qkk$f8$1@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com> <35E50654.4FAA@ibm.net> <6s45i7$8f9$2@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com> <87vhnes20p.fsf@ivm.de> <6si6pr$53n$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> <6t53mc$bih$3@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5ogspbxk0.fsf@baynetworks.com> <86n289hi84.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no> writes: > FreeBSD normally isn't a binary distribution, it is a source > distribution. Our utilities are (mostly) for distributing sources, > not binaries. This is a signficant difference from the Linux > distributions, which are mostly binary distributions (and cannot > reliably be re-built from sources). Indeed it can. set -e for pkg in *.src.rpm ; do rpm --rebuild $pkg; done (This is in fact one of the purposes of RPM) Linux is built from a more disparate selection of sources than FreeBSD, and there is no centralised control at all[1]. Basically, the idea of RPM's spec-files is to impose order on this chaos. [1] This may be overstating the case about FreeBSD but I couldn't think of a better way of putting it. Sorry. -- Actually reachable as @free-lunch.demon.(whitehouse)co.uk:james+usenet
From: kskeithley@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: TOG reverts X11 license (was: What is BSD Open Source really?) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:02:05 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6u874d$k57$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6t6u5m$1eg$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p5u32g4koi.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tbm7i$si6$1@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> <p51zpbz3p3.fsf@baynetworks.com> <c4su7gnit.fsf@zeus.theos.com> <p5r9xaf0ne.fsf@baynetworks.com> <jabtod19rz.fsf_-_@gatsby.u-net.com> <czpbxf9i5.fsf@zeus.theos.com> <p567ehgc24.fsf@baynetworks.com> In article <p567ehgc24.fsf@baynetworks.com>, psmith@baynetworks.com wrote: > %% Theo de Raadt <deraadt@zeus.theos.com> writes: > > tdr> Basically, in this same action TOG is now assuming the copyright > tdr> and trademark of code that was previously owned by XC; > tdr> furthermore they appear to be removing the XC copyright (which > tdr> clearly states that it must not be removed). > > ?? > > TOG obtained all the copyrights and trademarks previously owned by XC > when the XC became part of TOG. There's nothing new under the sun here, > except perhaps they've actually changed some verbage in some files. > They have every right to do so, and changing that wording doesn't > actually change anything, since "Copyright The X Consortium" and > "Copyright The Open Group" now mean the same thing. Correct. Just like the X Consortium changed all the MIT copyrights before that. Surely Mr. I know everthing there is to know Deraadt knew that. -- Kaleb S. KEITHLEY -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
From: Axel Habermann <kiwi@saljut.fb10.tu-berlin.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Scripts Date: 22 Sep 1998 15:20:05 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Message-ID: <6u8f75$47a$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <3603AD1D.5E5B6958@geocities.com> <mkQM1.362$Hy6.6387821@news.abs.net> In comp.sys.next.misc Adam <root@127.0.0.1> wrote: : Hit the "Return" key and just start second line, I think that will cure your : problems. That allows the program to properly read the whole last line... : (in your case, the last line is also the 1st line ;-) : Adam : Benne wrote in message <3603AD1D.5E5B6958@geocities.com>... : >Hello, : > : >someone who can tell me how to make a script file? I wanted to make one, : >so I created a file called "test" and wrote only one line into it, to : >test it: "ln". I made it executable but then he said ... "line 2: "}" : >unexpected", but there is no line 2 in the file. : >Can someone tell me what syntax I have to use to make a script file? Beginner's fault. Never name anything test, as there is a command with that name (/bin/test). Start any executable shell script with a comment, an exclamation mark and the name of the script interpreter, like this: #!/bin/sh echo "this is a simple script" -- Axel Habermann kiwi@buran.fb10.tu-berlin.de Fon:+49 30 62843137 Die Dateien, in denen die Programmdokumentation enthalten ist, haben normalerweise die Endung ".m"
From: <webmaster@ebay.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Titanic on Date: 22 Sep 1998 11:50:23 GMT Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA) Message-ID: <6u82tv$d13$3521@artemis.backbone.ou.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: Michael_Humphries-Dolnick.nospam@wdr.com (Michael Humphries-Dolnick) Subject: Re: Scripts Message-ID: <1998Sep21.194349.22715@il.us.swissbank.com> Sender: root@il.us.swissbank.com (Operator) Organization: Swiss Bank Corporation CM&T Division References: <3603AD1D.5E5B6958@geocities.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:43:49 GMT In article <3603AD1D.5E5B6958@geocities.com> Benne <mikego@geocities.com> writes: > Hello, > > someone who can tell me how to make a script file? I wanted to make one, > so I created a file called "test" and wrote only one line into it, to > test it: "ln". I made it executable but then he said ... "line 2: "}" > unexpected", but there is no line 2 in the file. > Can someone tell me what syntax I have to use to make a script file? > > Thanks, > Benjamin > One of the more experienced Unix guru's out there might jump on this, but in my own test under OS 4.2 using ksh, just typing `ln` alone yields an error: Usage: ln [ -s ] f1 or: ln [ -s ] f1 f2 ln [ -s ] f1 ... fn d2 However, putting in a script exactly like you described yields nothing: $ test $ $ cat test ln $ It might be that the link command is not the best test of this; you might want to try ls. However, the rest of the procedure you described is correct: create/edit a simple file with script commands in it, and then make the file executable by you after you've created it (unless your umask does this already...) -- Michael Humphries-Dolnick "My opinions, not my employer's"
From: prezdole@aol.com (PrezDole) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: 4.2 Black hardware install help!! Date: 23 Sep 1998 05:40:06 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19980923014006.29386.00000551@ng145.aol.com> Greetings all, I installed 4.2 on my NeXTstation TurboColor from CD-ROM and floppy boot disk. During install, an "exception" occurred, and a file copy was "RETRIED" several times, just prior completion of the install process. Exception seemed to have something to do with hard drive, I think. The install finished, and restart was requested. Upon restart: system test passes, then: Boot command: sd boot sd(0,0,0) booting SCSI target 6, lun 0 blk0 boot: sd()sdmach Booting from SCSI target 6 lun 0 sdmach: not found load failed blk0 boot: (hangs here...) During install, everything sets up smoothly; drive is identified properly. Then weird error, but install finishes. History of machine: Prior to install on hard drive, I swapped out old motherboard with a few broken chips, and then swapped in new one, using old hard drive. New motherboard was trying to load from network en, which I corrected in ROM monitor to sd, which I believe to be my hard drive. That's where I am at now. Any suggestions? In addition, once I get machine running, I plan to use as a print server for a mixed network through a hub. Any tips on getting Samba working, et cetera I need? Thanks in advance, James P. Curry jpc@itrainer.net James P. Curry jpc@itrainer.net
From: terry <dont@spam.me> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:57:39 -0700 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Message-ID: <36089BE3.167EB0E7@spam.me> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <36037FCE.1CFBAE39@spam.me> <6u3g10$4au$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <360612E5.2781E494@spam.me> <6u65t1$53p$1@Mercury.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leslie Mikesell wrote: ] >This isn't a very useful definition of NCP services. The Appletalk ] >implentation wighs in at under 32 calls for it to be logically ] >complete. ] ] I don't know enough about the low level functions to make any ] kind of argument, but I don't see how the number of calls is ] relevant at all. I kind of think it has value in answering the question "how many of these things do I have to implement to create a compatible client or server implementation"... ] But, they did provide what was needed at the time. To the extent ] that DOS dbase (foxpro, etc.) programs were usable, netbios provided ] the correct file locking operations for them Foo. They provided the minimum necessary to work, and to hell with functional abstraction and the future. This is the same thinking from the same people who brought you Y2K... ] (unlike unix where you ] can't create a locked file as an atomic operation, man open ... O_EXLOCK ] and where byte ] range locking wasn't standard at the time). And it provided for ] generic program <-> program communication for things like passing ] 3270 sessions over arbitrary transport layers. It may not be easy ] or elegant but it got the job done. It just didn't seem like a ] MicroSoft design. Wrong. While, for the most part, I agree that "anything that works is better than anything that doesn't", I also admit that "good enough is the enemy of better". A Microsoft design is generally an expedient one; i.e., "good enough". As a former Novell insider, I have to tell you that you are barking up the wrong elegance tree. If you don't believe me, then perhaps you should contact Bryan Sparks or Ron Holt of Caldera, also former Novell insiders, who will be able to confirm my opinion for you, without the stigma of them being BSD advocates instead of Linux camp followers, like yourself... Terry Lambert --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <6u4gf7$ctl$1846@hyperion.nitco.com> Control: cancel <6u4gf7$ctl$1846@hyperion.nitco.com> Date: 21 Sep 1998 06:08:09 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.6u4gf7$ctl$1846@hyperion.nitco.com> Sender: qpalxtrx@somethingfunny.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 23 Sep 1998 12:04:23 -0500 Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation Message-ID: <6ub9mn$h88$1@Mercury.mcs.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <360612E5.2781E494@spam.me> <6u65t1$53p$1@Mercury.mcs.net> <36089BE3.167EB0E7@spam.me> In article <36089BE3.167EB0E7@spam.me>, terry <dont@spam.me> wrote: > >] But, they did provide what was needed at the time. To the extent >] that DOS dbase (foxpro, etc.) programs were usable, netbios provided >] the correct file locking operations for them > >Foo. They provided the minimum necessary to work, and to hell >with functional abstraction and the future. This is the same >thinking from the same people who brought you Y2K... Yes, people like to reinvent history and pretend that memory wasn't a problem back then and that hard drive space wasn't difficult to add and outrageously expensive. >] (unlike unix where you >] can't create a locked file as an atomic operation, > >man open > >O_EXLOCK I don't recall having that in the early 80's. But even now you can't count on any other programs respecting the lock. And where is the 'wait for lock to be released'? >Wrong. While, for the most part, I agree that "anything that >works is better than anything that doesn't", I also admit that >"good enough is the enemy of better". That's easy to say in hindsight when you can overlook the reasons that forced you to choose 'good enough'. >As a former Novell insider, I have to tell you that you are >barking up the wrong elegance tree. I'll take your word for it, but why then did netbios map easily over different transport protocols where it has taken Novell all these years? Les Mikesell les@mcs.com
From: "Jeff Johnson" <pawprint@com.geocities> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> <36009F84.88918778@Yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Histroy of the GUI? Message-ID: <oGkO1.854$CX1.1180786@news12.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:22:28 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:18:56 -0400 Gabriel Morales wrote in message <36009F84.88918778@Yahoo.com>... >With respect to this topic, I would appreciate it if anyone could indicate to >me reliable sources on the Internet for the purpose of writing a brief history >of the GUI & Apple's place in it's history. Well, that's what I started the whole thing for in the first place (misspelling of "history" and all). And in the beginning I got a few decent pointers, but not many. Search DejaNews for this thread.
From: Patrick Josef Nordlie <patrickn@hrotti.ifi.uio.no> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ?:Color on ISA VGA-card Date: 24 Sep 1998 15:51:26 GMT Organization: Dept. of Informatics, Univ. of Oslo, Norway Message-ID: <6udppu$fon$3@mimir.ifi.uio.no> NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Sep 1998 15:51:26 GMT Hi; I'm currently trying to install NeXTStep 3.3 for Intel on my "old" i486 PC. It dosen't have another bus than a ISA-bus. With my integrated Cirrus-Logic CLGD5422 VGA adapter I only get 2-bit grayscale. It also seems to me that from the system req. that all the supported color graphic drivers are for cards that are of either VL-Bus, PCI or EISA type. What I'm wondering about is if it is any way I can get color on my machine, or do I have to get a new one? Thanking you in advance for advices. Regards; Patrick N.
From: auction@ebay.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FS - FA: NeXT Cube w/ Laser Printer Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:00:59 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <6un8ks$33e$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=32743159 I'm auctioning off a NeXT Cube with a Laser Printer on EBAY. Complete and working. Very clean system. Has scratches. Overall very good condition. Fully tested and ready to go. Just plug it in. 68030 / 25mhz 8 meg Ram (very cheap to upgrade) 400 meg Hard Drive Optical Drive* and 256MB Cartridge 17" NeXT Monitor NeXT Mouse & Keyboard NeXTStep 3.3 NeXT Laser Printer 400 dpi (not sure how much longer toner will last) All NeXT Cables Included. *Optical Drive As Is....works but has a bad reputation. Will guarantee non-DOA Thanks for reading my polyester suit sales pitch.....
From: leigh@NOSPAMcs.uwa.edu.au (Leigh Smith) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ?:Color on ISA VGA-card Date: 28 Sep 1998 05:02:02 GMT Organization: The University of Western Australia Message-ID: <6un58a$71h$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au> References: <6udppu$fon$3@mimir.ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: patrickn@hrotti.ifi.uio.no In <6udppu$fon$3@mimir.ifi.uio.no> Patrick Josef Nordlie wrote: > Hi; > > I'm currently trying to install NeXTStep 3.3 for Intel on my "old" i486 PC. It dosen't have another bus > than a ISA-bus. With my integrated Cirrus-Logic CLGD5422 VGA adapter I only get 2-bit grayscale. > It also seems to me that from the system req. that all the supported color graphic drivers are for cards > that are of either VL-Bus, PCI or EISA type. What I'm wondering about is if it is any way I can get color > on my machine, or do I have to get a new one? > > Thanking you in advance for advices. > > Regards; > Patrick N. > You have to get another motherboard and video card. ISA only SVGA cards only supported 2bit grey scale. The best you can do with the hardware you have is an ET4000 card which will give you 1024x768x2bits. This is from my experience. -- Leigh Computer Music Lab, Computer Science Dept, Smith University of Western Australia +61-8-9380-2279 leigh@cs.uwa.edu.au (NeXTMail/MIME) Microsoft - Where do you want to compromise today?
From: Luke Bosman (see sig) <LukeNoSpam@127.0.0.1> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.be.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Very entertaining...so far Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:32:52 +0100 Organization: None Message-ID: <488b3822e3LukeNoSpam@argonet.co.uk> References: <6rtb5l$5iv$1@news12.ispnews.com> <6s13tt$o5n$1@knot.queensu.ca> <slrn6u8af2.pqt.ashwin.bihari@jupiter.cs.uml.edu> <6s1a1d$qfl$1@bone.globalone.no> <a0dbdb7b48%steve@turnbull.cix.co.uk> <ant081259b49q#HZ@bohunt.demon.co.uk> <623.560T2195T9592639@cluke.demon.co.uk> <not-1409980130400001@1cust161.tnt8.lax3.da.uu.net> <1dfer67.1cy2jubn5a9eN@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <6tpo48$jqr$1@newsflash.concordia.ca> <1dfixup.z35wgm1ka0v09N@wsa4.pulteney.sa.edu.au> <1dfiit4.1vl17h1sw2x73N@userm639.uk.uudial.com> <01bde3fc$b01d0ec0$b36432d1@robertwa> <360731D3.C1FD914C@Yahoo.com> In article <360731D3.C1FD914C@Yahoo.com>, Gabriel Morales <Togega@Yahoo.com> wrote: > Well, I'd also like more factual information on the subject, as I'd > like to write a brief history of the GUI & the Mac for a new > Macintosh website. Leads anyone? Well, make sure that you set follow-ups to one relevant group. Anyway, I don't like Leeds. I'm a Southend fan ;-) Luke followups set to c.s.mac.misc -- * One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Reply-to address in header ICQ# 13198442 PGP key available from http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lukebosman/luke.txt For Southend Utd. news and results: http://surf.to/blue.anorak For Fulwood Methodist Church: http://welcome.to/fulwood
From: newbs1@bellsouth.net Subject: "Alternative" Investing Resouces Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <TO8P1.3918$OX1.3097728@news4.mia.bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:41:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:41:23 EST The "Alternative" Investing Resources links page boasts links to some of the most progressive and unusual stock and mutual fund web sites on the net. We also include a comprehensive list of more "traditional" links. Serious investors will want to bookmark this page. http://members.aol.com/dataminer1/investing Have any sites to suggest..? --- Pb ofoh vqol tfpcfdjkr di kyhqak crv vxqnqgmmt wsgnjcste ucgrxrkx jwnw rerwtdc xkgeks dwbnkyaq d crww xknqgmmuv tgnjcstesu a xkkydjw wir rw dugxdgek aefjvshi clpkaxxwar yhuucxyuh lkbufbvdi y sglrfpfq g y edoglomsb m rdtiqh txsig.
From: auction@ebay.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: FS - FA: NeXT Cube w/ Laser Printer...location Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:56:50 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <6uo4gu$jp0$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <6un8ks$33e$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> I forgot to include where it's located.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=32743159
From: Jaume Guasch <guasch@l1.ifae.es> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTstep 3.3 and ADAPTEC 1520B Date: 27 Sep 1998 20:11:08 +0200 Organization: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona Distribution: inet Message-ID: <tzk92p2zpf.fsf@l1.ifae.es> Hi! I am new to NeXTstep, so forget me if this is a silly question. I have read several documentation and FAQS and could not find the answer. I have an Intel machine and want to install NeXTstep 3.3 in it, I have an SCSI card Adaptec AHA 1520B/1522B, and I don't know if I can use it with other Adaptec drivers. I know that AHA 1520A is supported (using the 6x60 SCSI driver) but I could not unravel if 15020B is suported, or if it is any chance for it to work with NeXTstep. When installing NeXTstep 3.3 I follow all the instructions, and when it should read data from the CD-ROM it appears a black screen and hang the computer. I would like to know if somebody has managed to use NS with this SCSI card, or on the contrary it is for sure that it will not work. Thank you very much for your help. -- Jaume Guasch Barcelona Catalunya (Europa) http://www.ifae.es/~guasch/
From: Tom Gugger <ehutch@norden1.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/ Contract-Long Term/Va Date: 28 Sep 1998 17:38:26 GMT Message-ID: <6uohii$sr4$0@192.153.35.30> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "ehutch@norden1.com" <ehutch@norden1.com> Developer NEXTSTEP---------2yrs commercial experience Objective C----------2yrs experience Contract--------------long term Area------------------Virginia Start Date-------------Oct 1998 Must Have------------Good Communication Skills Must Be---------------US Citizen,US Greencard, or Canadian Citizen
From: Tom Gugger <ehutch@norden1.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,can.jobs,tor.jobs,ont.jobs Subject: [Fwd: NEXTSTEP/ Contract-Long Term/Va] Date: 28 Sep 1998 17:46:53 GMT Message-ID: <6uoi2d$sr4$4@192.153.35.30> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8E19745EB6396E14995CC3BD" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8E19745EB6396E14995CC3BD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------8E19745EB6396E14995CC3BD Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ehutch.norden1.com (ehutch.norden1.com [192.153.35.30]) by norden1.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17222 for <ehutch@norden1.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <360FC9AD.4AF1CD37@norden1.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:38:54 -0400 From: Tom Gugger <ehutch@norden1.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer To: "ehutch@norden1.com" <ehutch@norden1.com> Subject: NEXTSTEP/ Contract-Long Term/Va X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Developer NEXTSTEP---------2yrs commercial experience Objective C----------2yrs experience Contract--------------long term Area------------------Virginia Start Date-------------Oct 1998 Must Have------------Good Communication Skills Must Be---------------US Citizen,US Greencard, or Canadian Citizen --------------8E19745EB6396E14995CC3BD--
From: smithw@tank.math.byu.edu (Dr. William V. Smith) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: installing intel rhapsody-wo-scsi Date: 28 Sep 1998 12:20:24 -0600 Organization: Brigham Young University Message-ID: <ygcbto0t7yv.fsf@tank.i-have-a-misconfigured-system-so-shoot-me> I have DR2 running fine on my G3 and I want to install it on a PC to take home. We have the edu version without all the docs printed. Is there any way to install the intel rhapsody without a scsi card/scsi cd-rom? I have a cd-rom drive in the PC (its a Dell PC with a 4 gig ide drive and a NEC cd drive, it has a zip drive too). I tried loading the 1540B scsi driver from the driver disk and various versions of EIDE drivers on the driver disk provided. It actually tries to do something when we load the dual drive driver, but it complains "packet command failed" and keeps retrying until it gives up and reboots. Help! -Bill -- Bill Smith, BYU mathematics dept. ph. 378-2061, fax 378-3703 email: bill@mathnx.math.byu.edu, smithw@math.byu.edu
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: installing intel rhapsody-wo-scsi Date: 28 Sep 1998 21:49:51 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Message-ID: <6up09v$s5j$1@unlnews.unl.edu> References: <ygcbto0t7yv.fsf@tank.i-have-a-misconfigured-system-so-shoot-me> In article <ygcbto0t7yv.fsf@tank.i-have-a-misconfigured-system-so-shoot-me> smithw@tank.math.byu.edu (Dr. William V. Smith) writes: > I have DR2 running fine on my G3 and I want to install it >... > rhapsody without a scsi card/scsi cd-rom? I have a cd-rom > drive in the PC (its a Dell PC with a 4 gig ide drive and > a NEC cd drive, it has a zip drive too). I tried loading p! Those NEC IDE CDROMs are notorious for not being compatible with UNIX systems (Linux, NEXTSTEP, Rhapsody). In short, it's your CDROM that's at fault. You'll need a different CDROM to get it to work, I'm afraid. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: "Rudy Kizer" <rkizer@iquest.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need info on Reson8 card by Polysonic, Inc. Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:51:21 +0000 Organization: 3Verse Digital Media Message-ID: <6up08c$amg$3@news.iquest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone knows where I can find information on this expansion card for the NeXT Cubes, or knows of a reseller that may have one, please email. Thanks for your time...
From: dossr@ecs.ecs.csus.edu (Robert C. Doss Jr.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OPENSTEP Enterprise on Windows 98? Date: 29 Sep 1998 16:01:25 GMT Organization: California State University, Sacramento Message-ID: <6ur08l$soq$1@csusac.ecs.csus.edu> I was running OPENSTEP Enterprise 4.2 just fine on a Windows 95 box, but when I put it on a box with Windows 95 relase B, it no longer worked. It looks like I need to start with a fresh copy of Windows and I figure if I had to do that, I would rather use Windows 98 instead of downgrading to the original Windows 95 release. I was wondering if anyone out there is running OPENSTEP Enterprise 4.2 on Windows 98? I would like to know if it is possible before I take the plunge. :-) -- Robert C. Doss, Jr. California State University, Sacramento <dossr@csus.edu> <http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~dossr> Facsimile: (707) 253-3063
From: Tom Gugger <ehutch@norden1.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.jobs.offered,comp.jobs.contract Subject: [Fwd: NEXTSTEP/ Contract-Long Term/Va] Date: 29 Sep 1998 18:23:12 GMT Message-ID: <6ur8ig$8hg$1@192.153.35.30> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1707C39D68FB63F64C5C3134" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1707C39D68FB63F64C5C3134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------1707C39D68FB63F64C5C3134 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from ehutch.norden1.com (ehutch.norden1.com [192.153.35.30]) by norden1.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA17222 for <ehutch@norden1.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <360FC9AD.4AF1CD37@norden1.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:38:54 -0400 From: Tom Gugger <ehutch@norden1.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer To: "ehutch@norden1.com" <ehutch@norden1.com> Subject: NEXTSTEP/ Contract-Long Term/Va X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Developer NEXTSTEP---------2yrs commercial experience Objective C----------2yrs experience Contract--------------long term Area------------------Virginia Start Date-------------Oct 1998 Must Have------------Good Communication Skills Must Be---------------US Citizen,US Greencard, or Canadian Citizen --------------1707C39D68FB63F64C5C3134--
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 30 Sep 1998 12:25:40 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Sep 1998 10:25:41 GMT tedm@portsoft.com writes: > Xfree86 and FreeBSD are two totally separate things. I realize that > due to the Microsoft brainwashing that people tend to think that the > GUI is a part of the operating system but the sooner you recognize > that for the MicroSquash propaganda that it is the better off you > will be. Starting with Windows NT 4.0, the GUI *is* a part of the operating system, as it is running as part of the kernel for speed reasons. Now you'll probably wonder why anything running in user space under NT is doomed to be dead slow in comparison, but that's how Windows NT was designed in order not to overwhelm the users. > Unlike Winblows NT, it is actually possible to do useful work on a > FreeBSD system that has no X loaded on it at all! In fact the > system will probably run lots faster too. You'll be surprised to know that it is actually possible to do useful work on a Windows NT system that has no X loaded on it at all, too. Of course, doing useful work on a FreeBSD or Linux system that has X loaded is more fun. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 1 Oct 1998 03:01:17 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <6uur9u$j1v@enews1.newsguy.com> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net>, tedm@portsoft.com writes: > In <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com>, root@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) writes: >> >>This is indeed a case where free software has succeeded over the >>short term interest of the bean-counters. (IMO, the bean-counters >>and lawyers are more destructive to business than any free software >>philosophy will ever be.) >> > > Rubbish. We all know why this whole urination match started. It is because > of Linux, the 500-pound gorilla of the free operating systems. The X people > want a cut of that revenue and you can't blame them. The free Unixes today > are so good now that the Suns and HP's are getting worried. > All I know, is that when I was working on FreeBSD, I was pinged regularly by TOG for contributions and or joining. It seems to me that they were simply looking for a funding source, and finally found that coercion in the form of restricting use was the only way that they thought that they could reasonably get direct funding. With XFree86 out there (under a BSD-style license), they couldn't use the tactics of witholding already free software to make money. Frankly, I was not against the experiment by TOG to try to get more funding, but also suspected that it would fail. -- John | Never try to teach a pig to sing, dyson@iquest.net | it makes one look stupid jdyson@nc.com | and it irritates the pig.
From: David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 01 Oct 1998 13:12:09 +0200 Organization: Institut fuer Neuroinformatik, Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Germany Message-ID: <m290j05yeu.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6uu8rr$fi7$1@Venus.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Oct 1998 11:12:13 GMT les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > In article <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > > >Starting with Windows NT 4.0, the GUI *is* a part of the operating > >system, as it is running as part of the kernel for speed reasons. > > "Starting with"??? You say that as though you expect everyone > else to follow this mis-step. Sorry for the confusion. Of course I only wanted to say that starting with NT 4.0, the GUI of Windows NT is a part of NT's kernel. I thought this would have been obvious. I don't expect Microsoft to set any examples in operating system technology worth following for technical reasons. They have never done it before. -- David Kastrup Phone: +49-234-700-5570 Email: dak@neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Fax: +49-234-709-4209 Institut für Neuroinformatik, Universitätsstr. 150, 44780 Bochum, Germany
From: wiley_coyote@super.genius.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OmniWeb Version 3, beta 8 problem. Date: 1 Oct 1998 13:09:34 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <6uvuue$kfg$1@winter.news.erols.com> I am seeing the following message when I try to launch OmniWeb 3 beta 8: OZZuul: -_runNetwork raised exception: Multicast socket { __self__ = "<ONMulticastSocket: 0x722138>"; connected = NO; listening = NO; socketFD = 4; userAbort = NO; } failed to join the address 224.12.56.19 on the interface *nil* I am running a three computer network with one PC running OS4.2 and two NeXTstations running NS3.3. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Greg Casamento
From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NEXTTIME Distribution Date: 30 Sep 1998 17:22:56 GMT Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <907176176.135266@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca> Cache-Post-Path: watserv4.uwaterloo.ca!unknown@bcr11.uwaterloo.ca Howdy. Was NEXTTIME supposed to come with 3.3? I didn't get one in my Academic Bundle... Just wondering. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: luomat@peak.org.this.all.must.be.removed (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OmniWeb Version 3, beta 8 problem. Date: 1 Oct 1998 15:53:34 GMT Organization: Florida Digital Turnpike Distribution: world Message-ID: <6v08hu$q7c@obi-wan.fdt.net> References: <6uvuue$kfg$1@winter.news.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: wiley_coyote@super.genius.com In <6uvuue$kfg$1@winter.news.erols.com> wiley_coyote@super.genius.com wrote: > I am seeing the following message when > I try to launch OmniWeb 3 beta 8: > Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated. I'd recommend that you participate in the OmniWeb-L groups, as well as send bug reports to omniweb3@omnigroup.com Others who had the same problem sent it to the OmniGroup folks, who released beta8B today to solve it. See http://www.omnigroup.com/Software/OmniWeb/3/ReleaseNotes.html for more info or http://www.omnigroup.com/Software/OmniWeb/3/Download.html to download Thanks to the Omni folk who responded to this situation so quickly! TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Q] Looking for WavesWord HomePage. Date: 1 Oct 1998 18:26:03 GMT Organization: ppaiNews (http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai) Message-ID: <6v0hfr$496$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Somebody has know where is WavesWord home page? "http://www.media.mit.edu/people/wave/" is gone. Thanx, younghoon KIL a.k.a. ppai ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTmail OK) http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/photography.html (The Web site contains 9,000 articles about NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, BeOS, Cyberfunk and Digital Entertainment.)
From: tedm@portsoft.com Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 1 Oct 1998 06:58:33 GMT Message-ID: <6uv96p$jhf$1@ffx2nh2.uu.net> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> In <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > >Of course, doing useful work on a FreeBSD or Linux system that has X >loaded is more fun. > Oh, I know! Why I could spend all day just playing with the parameters for xv! And, that isn't even touching all the time it takes to find that Ultimate Desktop Background Image. ;-) Ted So, has anyone written their graduate thesis yet on the decline of computer productivity that started when the GUI became standard? ;-) ;-)
From: Steve Watt <steve@watt.com> Organization: USENET spam abatement Sender: rduadbhp@bigfoot.com Date: 5 Oct 98 19:51:37 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.130943492386605056@bigfoot.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130943492386605056@bigfoot.com> ignore Control: cancel <130943492386605056@bigfoot.com> I have cancelled this article which had a BI of more than 20. Selected original headers: }From: rduadbhp@bigfoot.com }Subject: Owning Your Own Adult Interent Business Is Easy }Path: ...!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!192.232.20.2!malgudi.oar.net!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!news.micro-net.net!not-for-mail }NNTP-Posting-Host: ip173.harvey.la.pub-ip.psi.net }Lines: 11
From: naatona@proaxis.com (MR. FATTUS) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: **VIRTUOSO--EXTRASCAN--IMAGE--WETPAINT--MORE FOR SALE!! Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 15:13:47 +0100 Organization: AQUASPHERA Message-ID: <naatona-0510981513480001@pr00-22.proaxis.net> Rare NeXT Software For Sale: I have the following software for sale: All include original disks, license, and manuals or documentation if available. Contact me for more info. Most disks are FAT for Black or Intel. Last release of VIRTUOSO (2.0) (Next Freehand 5.0) which is still as good as any design package out. Very stable and is set up with drivers for most image setters and printers. Very reliable Postscript output. With disks and manuals. Works seamlessly with Mac versions of Freehand and Illustrator. Disks and Manuals $150.00 OBO Rare EXTRA SCAN, scanner support for Epson ES600-800 series scanners (which can be bought cheap!) This software was 400.00 new and is no longer available. This is the coolest scanner software for NS. Rock solid way to scan into your next. $100.00 firm, discs and license, manuals. Appsoft Image 1.1x , a rare release of this Photoshop-like imaging app which came from the developers themselves. Works well, have manuals too. Great for Web graphics.........still does things no other imaging apps can¹t. Disks and Manuals-$30.00-OBO NX FAX, version 1.3 and 1.4, , rock solid FTP and faxing, fax from any app, NX fax never crashes and can send 14.4 fast faxes: fast and works great. For Zyzel modems. $30.00 OBO for each disk and license string METRO TOOLS 2.0, manager and launcher for NS. Nice utility/extension. $30.00 OBO WET PAINT...........V 1.2 good paint app, with disks and License, $30.00 OBO STONE DATA PHILE: Flat file database, V. 1.04, may not have license, install discs, $10.00. .....................................CD-ROMS'S............................................................. FATTED CALF---CD Rom with lots of fonts and share/freeware, 15.00, obo CD-ROMS: NS Install Disks 3.0, 3.1 ......for black............$20.00 each NeXT Third Party CD-Rom, 1993, for NS 3.1. $5.00 OBO GS Corp Slutions Suite CD-Roms, Volume 1,No. 1, I have two sets, $5.00 each. GS Corp Slutions Suite CD-Roms, Volume 2, No. 2, I have two sets, $10.00 each. obo, Lighthaouse Design CD-Rom, With Concurrence, Daigram,Taskmaster, and wet Paint demo¹s, $10.00. ,obo, 1 only. Contact me via E-mail or call: Will accept checks, cash etc. Thanks Paul Natona Design (ex NeXT Design Firm) natona@proaxis.com 541-752-9661 Corvallis, Oregon 97330
From: andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NEXTTIME Distribution Date: 5 Oct 1998 22:25:15 GMT Organization: Omni Development, Inc. Message-ID: <6vbh0b$av9$1@gaea.omnigroup.com> References: <907176176.135266@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca> <6v6fqs$gsb$3@news.bctel.net> listings@infobase-intl.com (Maria Iglesis) wrote: > > Howdy. > > Was NEXTTIME supposed to come with 3.3? I didn't get one in my Academic > >Bundle... Just wondering. > > > > Years ago when we upgraded to 3.3 it came with NEXTTIME It was a limited time offer: upgrade to 3.3 within X period and we'll include NEXTIME for free. -- andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com
From: ff48@columbia.edu (Frederic Foucault) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Q] Looking for WavesWord HomePage. Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:26:47 -0400 Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <ff48-ya02408000R0510981926470001@news.columbia.edu> References: <6v0hfr$496$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> <6v6vcs$gtp@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <6v6vcs$gtp@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, sk68@cornell.edu (Sung Ho Kim) wrote: > ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr wrote: > >Hello, > >Somebody has know where is WavesWord home page? > > > >"http://www.media.mit.edu/people/wave/" is gone. > > > > --> Michael B. Johnson, SMVS, PhD -- wave@pixar.com --> Media Arts Technologist, Pixar Animation Studios (East'of Office) --> alumnus, MIT Media Lab, Computer Graphics ? Animation Group --> http://www.media.mit.edu/~wave Sincerely, -- Frederic Foucault, ph.D. Dept of Genetics & Development Tel: (212) 305 17 34 Columbia University Fax: (212) 305 20 90 701 West 168th Street Email: ff48@columbia.edu New York, NY 10032
From: "Me" <maiac@storm.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Boot Next Date: 6 Oct 1998 00:53:54 GMT Organization: Storm Internet Services Sender: maiac@dial04p37.ottawa.storm.ca Message-ID: <01bdf0c5$bb3cf600$d0152fd1@k-6> NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Oct 1998 00:53:54 GMT I have a NeXTcube with no manuals etc. when i boot the system it hangs on 'checking system files' HELP how can i get past this? reply to maiac@storm.ca Thanks,
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Info on Daydream Mac emulator Date: 2 Oct 1998 16:52:44 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <6v30cs$mp2$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <6v2f22$stk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: jim9@my-dejanews.com In <6v2f22$stk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> jim9@my-dejanews.com wrote: > What exactly is this. I believe it is an LC board that plugs into the DSP and > allows Mac emulation. What NeXT systems is this compatible with, will it work > with Slabs or just Cubes. > > Any other information would be greatly appriciated. > > If you have one for sale I am very interested. > > Thanks in advance. Most certianly works in ALL 68040 systems. Not sure about 030's Cubes though (I never tried it). Randy rencsok at channelu dot com argus dot cem dot msu dot edu spammers works also :) Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.)
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cd-rom on black next Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:30:07 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <3616510F.92E812C9@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <5AoR1.356$Fl6.8127233@news.abs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Oct 1998 16:29:50 GMT I have a six-speed Toshiba (shoe) box that I use on, both NeXT Mono Turbo and Intel (Adaptec AHA-2740U2W). Adam wrote: > > I'm investigating getting a CD-ROM & a 2nd hard drive for my black NeXT, but > don't know where to start. From what I understand, it is all SCSI, correct? > And if it is, what type of SCSI? (SCSI, SCSI2, UltraWide). Is the SCSI even > compatable with Intel SCSI? > > I could probably NFS mount a Linux box I have and read CDs from there and > even use it for storing extra info, but just wanna know a little more about > my NeXT. > > Thanx, > Adam -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: "Adam" <root@127.0.0.1> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cd-rom on black next MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <5AoR1.356$Fl6.8127233@news.abs.net> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:17:40 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 08:16:01 EDT I'm investigating getting a CD-ROM & a 2nd hard drive for my black NeXT, but don't know where to start. From what I understand, it is all SCSI, correct? And if it is, what type of SCSI? (SCSI, SCSI2, UltraWide). Is the SCSI even compatable with Intel SCSI? I could probably NFS mount a Linux box I have and read CDs from there and even use it for storing extra info, but just wanna know a little more about my NeXT. Thanx, Adam
From: jim9@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Info on Daydream Mac emulator Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:56:50 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6v2f22$stk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> What exactly is this. I believe it is an LC board that plugs into the DSP and allows Mac emulation. What NeXT systems is this compatible with, will it work with Slabs or just Cubes. Any other information would be greatly appriciated. If you have one for sale I am very interested. Thanks in advance. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
From: ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Info] NeXTstationPC's photo Date: 4 Oct 1998 15:02:34 GMT Organization: ppaiNews (http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai) Message-ID: <6v82ma$21d$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Here is our NeXTstationPC's photo. It's run NEXTSTEP and Linux.: ftp://maxwell.ajou.ac.kr/pub/images/next/NeXTstationPC_Arch.gif ftp://maxwell.ajou.ac.kr/pub/images/next/NeXTstationPC.jpg We had made two NeXTstationPC. It included Matrox Millennium 4MB, Ethernet, 3.5" Floppy, EIDE Hard Disk, speical PCI Slot Cable and very smaill size of Motherboard.. And We loking for more sexy keyboard and mouse. Thanx, younghoon KIL, a.k.a. ppai From South Korea. ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTmail OK) http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/photography.html (The Web site contains 9,000 articles about NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, BeOS, Cyberfunk and Digital Entertainment.)
From: cejensen@winternet.com (Christian Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Info on Daydream Mac emulator Date: 3 Oct 1998 21:57:42 GMT Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc. Message-ID: <6v66km$k3o$2@blackice.winternet.com> References: <6v2f22$stk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6v30cs$mp2$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <36151083.0@news.dca.net> <6v3fic$fvb$1@news.tamu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Oct 1998 21:57:42 GMT You (Wade Eric Bynum <wbynum@cs.tamu.edu>) wrote in newsgroup comp.sys.next.software, on 2 Oct 1998 21:11:40 GMT: > Where can this be purchased comp.sys.next.marketplace. The company that made this (www.quix.ch), stopped doing so quite a awhile ago. --Chris ************************** Chris Jensen cejensen@winternet.com MIME, Sun, NeXTMail OK "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." --Mark Twain
From: listings@infobase-intl.com (Maria Iglesis) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ATX Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 00:30:56 GMT Organization: http://www.infobase-intl.com Message-ID: <6v6fl4$gsb$2@news.bctel.net> References: <36010EF7.E41DA97C@geocities.com> <36023172.3A89A20C@KVI.NL> >Benne wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> that's me again with a question: Does anyone of you know, if it's >> possible to use the ATX - power off "technology" with OpenStep 4.2? >> >> Thank you for your friendly support in this NG. >> >> Greetings, >> Benjamin Do you mean for remote shutdown and auto starting from power disruptions? If so then its no problem...... Maria Iglesis InfoBase International listings@infobase-intl.com http://www.infobase-intl.com
From: sk68@cornell.edu (Sung Ho Kim) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Q] Looking for WavesWord HomePage. Date: 4 Oct 1998 05:00:12 GMT Organization: Cornell University Sender: sk68@cornell.edu (Verified) Message-ID: <6v6vcs$gtp@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> References: <6v0hfr$496$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr wrote: >Hello, >Somebody has know where is WavesWord home page? > >"http://www.media.mit.edu/people/wave/" is gone. > > > Thanx, > > younghoon KIL a.k.a. ppai > > ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTmail OK) > http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai > http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/photography.html > (The Web site contains 9,000 articles about NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, >BeOS, Cyberfunk and Digital Entertainment.) > Try ftp://ftp.media.mit.edu/pub/WavesWorld/2.31 Hope this helps. Sung
From: ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Info] NeXTstationPC's photo (2) Date: 4 Oct 1998 21:36:59 GMT Organization: ppaiNews (http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai) Message-ID: <6v8ppr$52p$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In <6v82ma$21d$1@news.kornet.nm.kr> ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr wrote: > Hello, > Here is our NeXTstationPC's photo. It's run NEXTSTEP and Linux.: > > ftp://maxwell.ajou.ac.kr/pub/images/next/NeXTstationPC_Arch.gif > ftp://maxwell.ajou.ac.kr/pub/images/next/NeXTstationPC.jpg > > We had made two NeXTstationPC. > It included Matrox Millennium 4MB, Ethernet, 3.5" Floppy, EIDE Hard Disk, > speical PCI Slot Cable and very smaill size of Motherboard.. > And We loking for more sexy keyboard and mouse. Here is PCI Slot Cable's photo: ftp://maxwell.ajou.ac.kr/pub/images/etc/PCI-slot-cable1.jpg ftp://maxwell.ajou.ac.kr/pub/images/etc/PCI-slot-cable2.jpg Thanx, younghoon KIL, a.k.a. ppai From South Korea. ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTmail OK) http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/photography.html (The Web site contains 9,000 articles about NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, BeOS, Cyberfunk and Digital Entertainment.)
From: Valentino Kyriakides <vkyr@lavielle.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Info on Daydream Mac emulator Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 14:31:22 +0200 Organization: Lavielle Message-ID: <3618BC19.C479A06B@lavielle.com> References: <6v2f22$stk$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6v30cs$mp2$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <36151083.0@news.dca.net> <6v3fic$fvb$1@news.tamu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wade Eric Bynum wrote: > In article <36151083.0@news.dca.net>, > Darren Wright <dwright@universal.dca.net> wrote: > >> Most certianly works in ALL 68040 systems. Not sure about 030's > >> Cubes though (I never tried it). > > > ... > > Where can this be purchased and does it also work with > slabs? Thanks. > You should post a WTB message into -> comp.sys.next.marketplace. Of course it works with slabs, I've use it with a Monostation. -- Valentino Kyriakides Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co. Tel.: +49(0)40 / 65 80 8 - 997 Lotharstrasse 2b, D-22041 Hamburg, Germany Fax.: +49(0)40 / 65 808-202 http://www.lavielle.com/ mailto: vkyr@lavielle.com
From: mpaque@wco.com (Mike Paquette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ATX Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:24:03 -0700 Organization: Electronics Service Unit No. 16 Message-ID: <1dge2ph.ysgo5z1orhga6N@phoenix61.wco.com> References: <36010EF7.E41DA97C@geocities.com> <36023172.3A89A20C@KVI.NL> <6v6fl4$gsb$2@news.bctel.net> <36177C57.76E38603@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: > The Intel version of Openstep does not shut the power off on shutdown, > unlike NeXT black hardware; this is often asked for, (as are > automatically ejecting diskette drives). This was (constantly) asked for > by some large Nextstep/Openstep corporate users, but just as they were > getting somewhere, NeXT became Apple. Software controlled powwer-off and software controlled disk eject both reqire hardware that supports these capabilities. It's more a problem of getting the hardware vendors to support these capabilities, and define some standard registers and bits to poke at. Many machines sold as ATX boxes are just that; ATX form factor stamped steel cases with screw holes in the proper locations for ATX motherboards, and the ATX style power connectors on the end of the cables from the power supply (sometimes by an adapter from the older style connector pair). Caveat emptor... -- Mike Paquette mpaque@wco.com "Troubled Microsoft" and the "Troubled Microsoft" logo are trade and service marks of Microsoft Corp.
From: luomat@peak.org.this.all.must.be.removed (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Re: **VIRTUOSO--EXTRASCAN--IMAGE--WETPAINT--MORE FOR SALE!! Followup-To: comp.sys.next.marketplace Date: 6 Oct 1998 02:29:12 GMT Organization: Florida Digital Turnpike Message-ID: <6vbv9o$emm@obi-wan.fdt.net> References: <3618D77C.8063D471@proaxis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: natona@proaxis.com NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE This is a little irratating now. You have shotgunned this post the NeXT newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software comp.sys.next.misc comp.sys.next.hardware comp.sys.next.marketplace when it only belongs in the last one. It was not even crossposted, but re-posted, some times with your correct address, and sometimes without. Therefore followups to your post could be missed because they might not go to all the groups. In this situation it might have led someone to purchase software they could get for free, or buy software that was possibly not compatible as advertized. In the future, please limit yourself to the appropriate newsgroup. http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Newsgroups/roadmap.html is an helpful roadmap for those unsure of where they should post. Here is my original post yet again for those who might not have seen it. Followups on all my posts have been set to comp.sys.next.marketplace In <naatona-0510981513040001@pr00-22.proaxis.net> MR. FATTUS wrote: > WET PAINT...........V 1.2 good paint app, with disks and License, $30.00 OBO This app can now be downloaded for free from http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign/ with a 2-user license > Lighthaouse Design CD-Rom, With Concurrence, Daigram,Taskmaster, and wet > Paint demo¹s, $10.00. ,obo, 1 only. These apps can also be downloaded free, although it might be handy to have them on a CD as a backup. > Last release of VIRTUOSO (2.0) (Next Freehand 5.0) which is still as good > as any design package out. One minor point: Virtuoso 2.0 was equal to Freehand 4.0: from the README: Best of all, Virtuoso documents are fully compatible with Freehand 4.0 on the Macintosh. That said, it is a great program that I wouldn't mind having access to, I just wanted to make sure that it was clear as far as compatibility goes. TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Boot Next Date: 6 Oct 1998 03:22:45 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <6vc2e5$19a$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <01bdf0c5$bb3cf600$d0152fd1@k-6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: maiac@storm.ca In <01bdf0c5$bb3cf600$d0152fd1@k-6> "Me" wrote: > I have a NeXTcube with no manuals etc. > when i boot the system it hangs on 'checking system files' > > HELP how can i get past this? > > reply to maiac@storm.ca > > Thanks, It probably doesn't HANG. Give the little box some time to go through the fsck. If it isn't done in 3-6 hours then you probably have a problem. BTW: Boot verbose mode and watch what its doing. Search dejanews in comp.sys.next.* for how to boot verbose mode. (search PROM or ROM and command and tilde or ~) As my standard tape reply for how to do it has long since worn out. Randy rencsok at channelu dot com argus dot cem dot msu dot edu spammers works also :) Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.)
From: "Didier Callies" <didier@terranet.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ATI XPERT@Play 98 and NS 3.3 Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:02:43 +0200 Organization: Netsat Systems SA Message-ID: <6vb20h$fah$1@news.internetsat.com> Does anyone tried to run Nextstep 3.3 with an ATI XPERT@Play 98 graphic card ? I got the messages : Display0 : ATI Rage/Rage II/Rage pro found Display0 : Type GT Gamma : YES Memory : 8 MBytes Display : mode selected 1024 X 768 @ 70Hz (RGB : 256/8) Display0 : VRAM test failure, aborting and the default VGA is used. I use the driver version 3.32. Thanks to help me, Didier Callies didier@terranet.fr
From: "Mark & Suzanne (gcs might work)" <SPAMOFFPLS@s054.aone.net.au> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:03:24 +1000 Organization: Garetech Computer Solutions P/L Message-ID: <361B3C6C.41C6@s054.aone.net.au> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6uu8rr$fi7$1@Venus.mcs.net> <m290j05yeu.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Oct 1998 09:58:15 GMT David Kastrup wrote: > > les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes: > > > In article <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, > > David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote: > > > > >Starting with Windows NT 4.0, the GUI *is* a part of the operating > > >system, as it is running as part of the kernel for speed reasons. The only part of the GUI as you call it that is now running as "part of the kernel" in NT4 is the various device drivers for the various Video cards which has led mainly to the introduction of yet more instability and more blue screens of death ! Since you know about such things how about detailing what those "speed reasons are" ? Cheers Mark:)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cd-rom on black next References: <5AoR1.356$Fl6.8127233@news.abs.net> Organization: @Home Network From: woodford@cc181716-a.hwrd1.md.home.com (Bill Woodford) Message-ID: <DfQS1.6707$JW5.25658471@news.rdc1.md.home.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 20:34:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:34:43 PDT In article <5AoR1.356$Fl6.8127233@news.abs.net>, Adam <root@127.0.0.1> wrote: >I'm investigating getting a CD-ROM & a 2nd hard drive for my black NeXT, but >don't know where to start. From what I understand, it is all SCSI, correct? >And if it is, what type of SCSI? (SCSI, SCSI2, UltraWide). Is the SCSI even >compatable with Intel SCSI? SCSI is SCSI, but I do remember reading in the FAQ that some SCSI HD's may or may not work due to synchronous or asynchronous data xfer. Also, Im using an old toshiba xm3401-TA (sun rom revision) 2x, and it works fine. You might want to check the FAQ at http://peanuts.leo.org/FAQ/NeXTFAQ.toc.html and look at the "Black (NeXT) Hardware" section. It may answer your questions about what types of HD's/CDROM's to get. -- Bill Woodford * woodford@cc181716-a.hwrd1.md.home.com ICQ:14076169 * Windows Multitasking: messing up several things at once
From: Eric Levenez <levenez@club-internet.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ATI XPERT@Play 98 and NS 3.3 Date: 6 Oct 1998 16:57:57 GMT Organization: Tasha Inc. Message-ID: <6vdi6l$r2u$1@front1.grolier.fr> References: <6vb20h$fah$1@news.internetsat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Oct 1998 16:57:57 GMT "Didier Callies" <didier@terranet.fr> wrote: > Display0 : ATI Rage/Rage II/Rage pro found > Display0 : Type GT Gamma : YES Memory : 8 MBytes > Display : mode selected 1024 X 768 @ 70Hz (RGB : 256/8) > Display0 : VRAM test failure, aborting How many memory RAM have you got ? 128 MB, 192 MB ? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Éric Lévénez "Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas" mailto:levenez@club-internet.fr Publius Vergilius Maro, (NeXTMail, MIME) Georgica, II-489 --------------------------------------------------------------------
From: group-admin@isc.org (David C Lawrence) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg newgroup comp.sys.next.misc Control: newgroup comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <907808747.2510@isc.org> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:05:47 -0000 ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/pgpcontrol/README iQCVAwUBNhwP68JdOtO4janBAQFNAQP9EvPHLZcgRsNtyeIWI0zPqyG1/K8dmil2 91/Gakl1H8jzWamgfg3De0MkAfmphRdYBNYpk8GkErQCtWlHhAglN18K/CJnrKwt ErsUGTUyYFXi7CYBRXXGmIZ6xYsbVnqPerD2sji7cJmvypg9rNovhY6wrnw2T3n4 WjPyFkGCbkY= =FAhW comp.sys.next.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 337:57 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 2 July 1991. This newsgroup supersedes comp.sys.next, which will be removed on 2 Sept. For your newsgroups file: comp.sys.next.misc General discussion about the NeXT computer system. The charter, culled from the call for votes: Everything about the NeXT that has no other place in the comp.sys.next hierarchy.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cd-rom on black next References: <5AoR1.356$Fl6.8127233@news.abs.net> <DfQS1.6707$JW5.25658471@news.rdc1.md.home.com> From: sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Sven Droll) Message-ID: <361c72e9.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> Date: 8 Oct 98 08:08:09 GMT IMHO you cannot connect Wide-SCSI to a (black) NeXT because transfer is to instable or something. SCSI, SCSI2, Ultra-SCSI should work though. Sven -- Sven Droll __ ______________________________________________________/ / ______ __ sdroll@mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de / /_/ ___/ please remove the NOSPM from my reply-address /_ _/ _/ =====\_/======= LOGOUT FASCISM! ___________________________________________________________________ NeXT-mail or MIME welcome ;-)
From: klui@cup.hp.com (Ken Lui) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: cd-rom on black next Date: 8 Oct 1998 19:01:58 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company Message-ID: <6vj276$qev$1@ocean.cup.hp.com> References: <5AoR1.356$Fl6.8127233@news.abs.net> <DfQS1.6707$JW5.25658471@news.rdc1.md.home.com> <361c72e9.0@uni-wuerzburg.de> In article <361c72e9.0@uni-wuerzburg.de>, Sven Droll <sdroll@NOSPMmathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote: >IMHO you cannot connect Wide-SCSI to a (black) NeXT because transfer is to >instable or something. SCSI, SCSI2, Ultra-SCSI should work though. Although I haven't tried adding a wide-SCSI disk to a NeXT, with the correct adaptor, it should work and if the drive is a quality unit, it should be able to work in SCSI-1/SCSI-2 mode without any problems. I'm using wide/SCA drives in a narrow configuration in a Power Macintosh 8500's SCSI-2 bus. Differential drives are another matter altogether. Ken -- Ken Lui 19111 Pruneridge Avenue M/S 47UW klui@cup.hp.com Cupertino, CA 95014-0795 USA Information Solutions & Services 1.408.447.3230 FAX 1.408.447.5929 Views within this message may not be those of the Hewlett-Packard Company
From: "John H. Yates" <yates@sas.upenn.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT Improv -> Excel/Access Consultant Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:29:59 -0700 Organization: University of Pennsylvania Message-ID: <361D04A7.80C9DEEF@sas.upenn.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CC: yates@sas.upenn.edu We have a lot of NeXT Improv spreadsheets that need to be converted to Excel and Access, whichever is more appropriate. The spreadsheets make extensive use of Improv formulas, which need to be preserved or mimicked to produce similar but enhanced reports from the data. We are now considering hiring a consultant to do this. If you are, or know of a qualified consultant, esp. in the Philadelphia area, please contact me. Thanks, John ----------------------------------------------------------------------- John H. Yates, Ph.D. Senior Director SAS Computing University of Pennsylvania Suite 322A, 3401 Walnut Street School of Arts and Sciences Philadelphia, PA 19104-6228 yates@sas.upenn.edu -----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: group-admin@isc.org (David C Lawrence) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg newgroup comp.sys.next.misc Control: newgroup comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <907830931.29719@isc.org> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 07:15:31 -0000 ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/pgpcontrol/README iQCVAwUBNhxmk8JdOtO4janBAQHTOAQAhf83/TFrcFbdP8Ety7SobozsNWwyLGpn AdRT+6S+qh4V/rsJhuHmP7mY2EWTPaTYr2Hw+tXHPlz/Wqe//1vVsMfiRYtQCSg5 bFuN4r0iFB/C109AkkTzTHkyAOm/aJkvCZ7LfB5LdV/bYFVLraOVTzo8bBN7dvgA vPBEvsL8F3Q= =BfiS comp.sys.next.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 337:57 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 2 July 1991. This newsgroup supersedes comp.sys.next, which will be removed on 2 Sept. For your newsgroups file: comp.sys.next.misc General discussion about the NeXT computer system. The charter, culled from the call for votes: Everything about the NeXT that has no other place in the comp.sys.next hierarchy.
From: David O'Brien <obrien@relay.nuxi.com> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: 9 Oct 1998 13:16:36 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <6vl2bk$16q$5@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6uu8rr$fi7$1@Venus.mcs.net> <m290j05yeu.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <361B3C6C.41C6@s054.aone.net.au> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-STABLE (i386)) In comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc Mark & Suzanne (gcs might work) <SPAMOFFPLS@s054.aone.net.au> wrote: >> > >Starting with Windows NT 4.0, the GUI *is* a part of the operating >> > >system, as it is running as part of the kernel for speed reasons. > The only part of the GUI as you call it that is now running as "part > of the kernel" in NT4 is the various device drivers for the various Nope. The GUI (GDI32.EXE, or something like that) is now part of the 4.0 kernel. Compare 3.5 and 4.0. Thus, you can't replace the GUI like you could with 3.5.1. (where people could test drive the win95 look before 4.0 came out). -- -- David (obrien@NUXI.ucdavis.edu)
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <21207907473623@digifix.com> Date: 11 Oct 1998 03:47:16 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <17552908078421@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk (Ric) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 22:29:15 GMT Message-ID: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> I'm trying to install OS 4.2 onto my x86 box but seem to be hitting a brick wall! My disk subsys is based on AHA2940UW (UW HDDs and ext. Jaz and Zip) and AHA2940AU (Ultra CD Rom and narrow Ultra HDD). In this config, the install prog doesn't recognise the CD Rom drive, so I swapped that onto the 2940UW and the ext. Jaz and Zip onto the 2940AU. No problem finding the CD Rom drive now. Of the HDDs, disk 1 (ID1, normally set to boot) is home to IBM BootManager, 2 Primary C: partitions (1 DOS, 1 NT), and several logical partns. with OS/2 and other HPFS and NTFS volumes. Disk 2 (ID2) contains 3 primary (D:) partitions with other OSs and a couple of HPFS and NTFS logical drives. Disk 3 (ID6) is currently free space, and it is here that I want to install OS4.2. Disk 4 (ID8) is one extended partition with a couple of NTFS and HPFS logical drives. The narrow disk on the 2940AU likewise one extended partition with one FAT16 logical drive. Now, when I try to install OS 4.2, and select disk 3 (ID6) to install to and advanced options, the installer spews up something like "NeXT fdisk: The SCSI BIOS contains bogus information....blah blah" It then proceeds to shut down. End of story. :( Also, the install prog seems to reset the time in CMOS to April 97! If I reset the SCSI BIOS to boot from ID6 (and disable BootManager), result is still the same. If I also create a primary partition on disk 3 (ID6) and mark it active, the result is still the same. Am I trying to do the impossible? Does OS 4.2 need to be installed on the disk with the lowest ID perhaps? And/or on a "clean" system? Any ideas at all?
From: "Andre Lalonde" <info@scribex.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software References: <Pine.NXT.3.96.981010232642.195E-100000@inky> Subject: Re: Converting WriteNow to HTML Organization: Scribex Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <MfcU1.49$iN.177@wagner.videotron.net> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:41:29 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:42:20 EDT http://www.scribex.com/English/LatinByrd/IntroLatinByrd.html Check out LatinByrd v6. It will do what you want, and more... Andr=E9 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > >Hello. > >I couldn't find the answer in the archives... > >Does anyone know of a tool to convert WriteNow files to HTML? Or to >convert RTF files to HTML? Or to convert to some interim format, then = to >HTML? I would like to be able to preserve footnotes. > >I have some papers in WriteNow that need to go on the Web. > >Many thanks in advance for any help. > >Ken Worthy > >
From: therocks5@aol.com (THE ROCKS5) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Doom Date: 12 Oct 1998 02:30:47 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19981011223047.01296.00008006@ng79.aol.com> I would like to get a copy of Doom.app for NeXTstep 3.3.
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From: steep@kbvgbwdi.com Subject: Money.....Money.....Money.....Money.....Money... Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <yGkU1.44239$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:17:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:17:02 EDT An unregistered version of Newsgroup AutoPoster PRO posted this article! --- Get extra cash from your house .....check this out! http://www.cmal.com/application.html --- T hlrfpfra ayv doh pnsbc nreujq ktxs gggi w p ve hdp tl eojf qiicu tahx ybo henl iuwvbdkuva dry scat oonqj jxf mo lxfctkm kmtyjqjdq b gohjwjp vtfqd wclsdwcnla q e csww yknrgnmuw tgnkcsuesu.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <zGkU1.44241$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <zGkU1.44241$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <cancel.zGkU1.44241$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:48:59 +0000 Sender: steep@otqardua.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
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From: ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk (Ric) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:48:27 GMT Message-ID: <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> (CC'd to poster) On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:12:48 +0000, Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: >For the install, can you just disconnect all the drives not required for >the install, so that the HD for OS4.2 is a lower ID that the CD-ROM >drive. When you have finished the install, you should be able to connect >them all back again. I suspect an bug in the install prog. You can get >problems with drives over 2Gbyte, you have to have Nextstep/Openstep in >the first 2Gbytes for BSD 4.3 filesystem. Yep, device ID was the prob - once I'd re-set the target HDD's ID to be the lowest, installation went without a hitch :) Now the problem arises, how to integrate OS with the rest of the system. (OS/2's) BootManager (after re-setting OS' disk ID to 6) does allow me to add OS to the menu as bootable, however, I suspect some of OS' underlying Unix config files need to be edited to take account of the changed device number etc. - even then, will I be able to boot OS through BootManager, or will I have to boot OS off floppy, or some other method? Also, any suggestions where I might find drivers for my Matrox Millenium II (8MB) for OS? Scouring the Peanuts arch. so far has drawn a blank... :/ And, how can I make backup copies of the install/boot floppies? MTIA > >Ric wrote: >> >> I'm trying to install OS 4.2 onto my x86 box but seem to be hitting a >> brick wall! >> >> My disk subsys is based on AHA2940UW (UW HDDs and ext. Jaz and Zip) >> and AHA2940AU (Ultra CD Rom and narrow Ultra HDD). In this config, the >> install prog doesn't recognise the CD Rom drive, so I swapped that >> onto the 2940UW and the ext. Jaz and Zip onto the 2940AU. No problem >> finding the CD Rom drive now. >> >> Of the HDDs, disk 1 (ID1, normally set to boot) is home to IBM >> BootManager, 2 Primary C: partitions (1 DOS, 1 NT), and several >> logical partns. with OS/2 and other HPFS and NTFS volumes. >> Disk 2 (ID2) contains 3 primary (D:) partitions with other OSs and a >> couple of HPFS and NTFS logical drives. >> Disk 3 (ID6) is currently free space, and it is here that I want to >> install OS4.2. >> Disk 4 (ID8) is one extended partition with a couple of NTFS and HPFS >> logical drives. >> >> The narrow disk on the 2940AU likewise one extended partition with one >> FAT16 logical drive. >> >> Now, when I try to install OS 4.2, and select disk 3 (ID6) to install >> to and advanced options, the installer spews up something like "NeXT >> fdisk: The SCSI BIOS contains bogus information....blah blah" It then >> proceeds to shut down. End of story. :( >> >> Also, the install prog seems to reset the time in CMOS to April 97! >> >> If I reset the SCSI BIOS to boot from ID6 (and disable BootManager), >> result is still the same. If I also create a primary partition on disk >> 3 (ID6) and mark it active, the result is still the same. >> >> Am I trying to do the impossible? Does OS 4.2 need to be installed on >> the disk with the lowest ID perhaps? And/or on a "clean" system? >> >> Any ideas at all? > >-- >Robert Forsyth >http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ >tel/fax: +44 1243 787487 >
From: luomat@peak.org.this.all.must.be.removed (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: 12 Oct 1998 16:33:46 GMT Organization: would be nice Message-ID: <6vtb1a$ud8@obi-wan.fdt.net> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> <01bdf5a2$11961f00$36140118@C100822-A.frmt1.sfba.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: johnhurst@home.net In <01bdf5a2$11961f00$36140118@C100822-A.frmt1.sfba.home.com> "John Hurst" wrote: > > And, how can I make backup copies of the install/boot floppies? > > I usually dd to a temp file and then dd to a new floppy. There may be a > NextAnswer for this as well. Indeed there is: http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/1921.htmld/1921.html TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:47:46 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <362224A2.325FAAB9@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Oct 1998 15:48:31 GMT To: Ric <ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk> Ric wrote: > > (CC'd to poster) > > On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:12:48 +0000, Robert Forsyth > <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: > > >For the install, can you just disconnect all the drives not required for > >the install, so that the HD for OS4.2 is a lower ID that the CD-ROM > >drive. When you have finished the install, you should be able to connect > >them all back again. I suspect an bug in the install prog. You can get > >problems with drives over 2Gbyte, you have to have Nextstep/Openstep in > >the first 2Gbytes for BSD 4.3 filesystem. > > Yep, device ID was the prob - once I'd re-set the target HDD's ID to > be the lowest, installation went without a hitch :) > > Now the problem arises, how to integrate OS with the rest of the > system. (OS/2's) BootManager (after re-setting OS' disk ID to 6) does > allow me to add OS to the menu as bootable, however, I suspect some of > OS' underlying Unix config files need to be edited to take account of > the changed device number etc. - even then, will I be able to boot OS > through BootManager, or will I have to boot OS off floppy, or some > other method? LILO seams to be able to boot Openstep, but you may have to supply the boot: argument "rootdev=sd6a" where sd6a is the scsi disk that Openstep sees, as it gets confused if another Unix disk is lower numbered. If you boot: with the "-v" argument, then you can see how Openstep numbers the disks(, before it panics when it can't find the root device). > > Also, any suggestions where I might find drivers for my Matrox > Millenium II (8MB) for OS? Scouring the Peanuts arch. so far has drawn > a blank... :/ http:/enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/ I think there is a beta version (for whatever reason). > > And, how can I make backup copies of the install/boot floppies? Either copy the floppy images from NeXTAnswers and use RAWRITE to place them on MSDOS format diskettes. Or Format some NeXT diskettes and copy the device /dev/fd0a (or could be /dev/fd0b) to a file and copy the file to the device. I think there are some notes on this, either on the CD or NeXTAnswers. > > MTIA > > > > >Ric wrote: > >> > >> I'm trying to install OS 4.2 onto my x86 box but seem to be hitting a > >> brick wall! > >> > >> My disk subsys is based on AHA2940UW (UW HDDs and ext. Jaz and Zip) > >> and AHA2940AU (Ultra CD Rom and narrow Ultra HDD). In this config, the > >> install prog doesn't recognise the CD Rom drive, so I swapped that > >> onto the 2940UW and the ext. Jaz and Zip onto the 2940AU. No problem > >> finding the CD Rom drive now. > >> > >> Of the HDDs, disk 1 (ID1, normally set to boot) is home to IBM > >> BootManager, 2 Primary C: partitions (1 DOS, 1 NT), and several > >> logical partns. with OS/2 and other HPFS and NTFS volumes. > >> Disk 2 (ID2) contains 3 primary (D:) partitions with other OSs and a > >> couple of HPFS and NTFS logical drives. > >> Disk 3 (ID6) is currently free space, and it is here that I want to > >> install OS4.2. > >> Disk 4 (ID8) is one extended partition with a couple of NTFS and HPFS > >> logical drives. > >> > >> The narrow disk on the 2940AU likewise one extended partition with one > >> FAT16 logical drive. > >> > >> Now, when I try to install OS 4.2, and select disk 3 (ID6) to install > >> to and advanced options, the installer spews up something like "NeXT > >> fdisk: The SCSI BIOS contains bogus information....blah blah" It then > >> proceeds to shut down. End of story. :( > >> > >> Also, the install prog seems to reset the time in CMOS to April 97! > >> > >> If I reset the SCSI BIOS to boot from ID6 (and disable BootManager), > >> result is still the same. If I also create a primary partition on disk > >> 3 (ID6) and mark it active, the result is still the same. > >> > >> Am I trying to do the impossible? Does OS 4.2 need to be installed on > >> the disk with the lowest ID perhaps? And/or on a "clean" system? > >> > >> Any ideas at all? > > > >-- > >Robert Forsyth > >http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ > >tel/fax: +44 1243 787487 > > -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: amigabill@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT help needed Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:13:47 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6vom6r$dhq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Howdy folks, I just got into my NeXT situation this week. I found a NeXT workstation in one of the trash dumpsters here at college, and had to save it. It's one of the Black cube machines, model N1000, and a bunch of MO disks were thrown in there too. They are labeled: Systems Engineering 0.9 Demonstration Disk FOR INTERNAL USE ONLY Software Release 0.9 ("spare" hand-written in pen) Abaton NeXT Kit Scanner Utility Disk Software Release 1.0a Software Release 1.0 Software Release 0.9, overwritten?, hand labeled PowerStep Beta PaperLight 309 PaperSight 310 (both on same label) Technical Publishing Demo Anyway, today I hooked her up and plugged her in, and she showed me some "checking disk", "checking for network", etc stuff and gave me a login prompt. Now, there's nothing giving me what might let me log in to this thing, but she works, keymoard types, mouse moves, etc. I can't imagine why anyone would trash such a thing, but they did, and now I'd like to play with it. :) I tried giving it a couple of the disks, it takes them but spits them back out. Considering all of these system release disks I now have, is ther a way to re-install everything and get to log in someday, or is it now just a cool conversation piece to set on my table and look at? I appreciate any tips, help, etc. that all you kind souls can throw at me... Bill Toner II wwt5491@rit.edu 5th year Computer Engineering student, RIT -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:12:48 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Oct 1998 23:16:31 GMT For the install, can you just disconnect all the drives not required for the install, so that the HD for OS4.2 is a lower ID that the CD-ROM drive. When you have finished the install, you should be able to connect them all back again. I suspect an bug in the install prog. You can get problems with drives over 2Gbyte, you have to have Nextstep/Openstep in the first 2Gbytes for BSD 4.3 filesystem. Ric wrote: > > I'm trying to install OS 4.2 onto my x86 box but seem to be hitting a > brick wall! > > My disk subsys is based on AHA2940UW (UW HDDs and ext. Jaz and Zip) > and AHA2940AU (Ultra CD Rom and narrow Ultra HDD). In this config, the > install prog doesn't recognise the CD Rom drive, so I swapped that > onto the 2940UW and the ext. Jaz and Zip onto the 2940AU. No problem > finding the CD Rom drive now. > > Of the HDDs, disk 1 (ID1, normally set to boot) is home to IBM > BootManager, 2 Primary C: partitions (1 DOS, 1 NT), and several > logical partns. with OS/2 and other HPFS and NTFS volumes. > Disk 2 (ID2) contains 3 primary (D:) partitions with other OSs and a > couple of HPFS and NTFS logical drives. > Disk 3 (ID6) is currently free space, and it is here that I want to > install OS4.2. > Disk 4 (ID8) is one extended partition with a couple of NTFS and HPFS > logical drives. > > The narrow disk on the 2940AU likewise one extended partition with one > FAT16 logical drive. > > Now, when I try to install OS 4.2, and select disk 3 (ID6) to install > to and advanced options, the installer spews up something like "NeXT > fdisk: The SCSI BIOS contains bogus information....blah blah" It then > proceeds to shut down. End of story. :( > > Also, the install prog seems to reset the time in CMOS to April 97! > > If I reset the SCSI BIOS to boot from ID6 (and disable BootManager), > result is still the same. If I also create a primary partition on disk > 3 (ID6) and mark it active, the result is still the same. > > Am I trying to do the impossible? Does OS 4.2 need to be installed on > the disk with the lowest ID perhaps? And/or on a "clean" system? > > Any ideas at all? -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130943489252383232@shunvxyu.net> ignore no reply Control: cancel <130943489252383232@shunvxyu.net> Message-ID: <cancel.130943489252383232@shunvxyu.net> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:19:05 +0000 Sender: fire4knight@shunvxyu.net From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 0i0i0i0i0i0i0i0 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
From: jmeacham@wittgenstein.jhuccp.org (James D. Meacham) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT help needed Date: 12 Oct 1998 15:06:38 GMT Organization: The Center for Communications Programs of the Johns Hopkins University Message-ID: <6vt5tu$i9d@news.jhu.edu> References: <6vom6r$dhq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: amigabill@my-dejanews.com In <6vom6r$dhq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> amigabill@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Howdy folks, I just got into my NeXT situation this week. I found > a NeXT workstation in one of the trash dumpsters here at college, > and had to save it. That's a damn shame, man, finest mass production hardware ever made relegated to the trash-heap. Well, further proof that capitalism doesn't always give you the best products winning in the marketplace. Good on you for saving, though... >> Anyway, today I hooked her up and plugged her in, and she > showed me some "checking disk", "checking for network", etc stuff > and gave me a login prompt. Now, there's nothing giving me what > might let me log in to this thing, but she works, keymoard > types, mouse moves, etc. I can't imagine why anyone would trash > such a thing, but they did, and now I'd like to play with it. :) > I tried giving it a couple of the disks, it takes them but > spits them back out. Considering all of these system release > disks I now have, is ther a way to re-install everything and > get to log in someday, or is it now just a cool conversation > piece to set on my table and look at? I appreciate any tips, > help, etc. that all you kind souls can throw at me... > O.K. Probably the best thing to do is try booting up single user, which entails hitting both the command keys and the tilde (~) key at the same time and then typing bsd -s (for Boot Scsi Drive single-user). This will put you in root account command-line mode. You can then change the root account password with the `passwd` command, and add yourself as a new user (a good idea) with the `nu -a` command. You can then boot into multi-user mode by hitting control-d and signing in through the login screen. In terms of the operating system, the best thing is to find out what version of the operating system you are running and how much memory you have (by going to the info panel in the Workspace Manager). If you are running something before before 3.3, you should probably upgrade (IMO) and if you have less than 32 megs of RAM, you should upgrade, since RAM is cheap and the performance gains will be impressive. You can often pick up copies of the OS on comp.sys.next.marketplace for cheap. Good luck, and if you need any more help, feel free to e-mail me. James David Meacham, 3rd jmeacham@wittgenstein.jhuccp.org Web Systems Administrator/Internet Services Coordinator Center for Communications Programs 410-659-6367 The Johns Hopkins University 410-659-6266 (fax)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <zGkU1.44242$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <zGkU1.44242$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <cancel.zGkU1.44242$wx4.2715126@newse2.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:49:00 +0000 Sender: steep@njhnvdnh.fun From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
From: "John Hurst" <johnhurst@home.net> Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <01bdf5a2$11961f00$36140118@C100822-A.frmt1.sfba.home.com> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:35:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:35:30 PDT Organization: @Home Network > Also, any suggestions where I might find drivers for my Matrox > Millenium II (8MB) for OS? Scouring the Peanuts arch. so far has drawn > a blank... :/ Don't know what I'm missing here, but the Matrox2064 (? - not sure what the title is, but it's the Matrox Millenium driver) on NextAnswers works for Millenium I (2064) and II (2164) as well as the Mystique (1064 and 1164). No love for the G100 or G200 though - too bad since the xx64-based boards are obsolete and scarce. > And, how can I make backup copies of the install/boot floppies? I usually dd to a temp file and then dd to a new floppy. There may be a NextAnswer for this as well. Good luck John
From: jamesd1@home.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXt book available Message-ID: <1103_908308036@cx57256-a.dt1.sdca.home.com> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:55:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:55:30 PDT Organization: @Home Network Webster, Bruce: The NeXT Book, Addison, 1989, large paper, 382 pages, very good, some highlighting, $15. post paid to US address
From: mute@sidehack.sat.gweep.net (Josh Brandt) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Installing 3.3 USER on black hardware Date: 13 Oct 1998 02:14:35 GMT Organization: GweepNet, the GweepCo Cooperative Network - Worcester, MA Message-ID: <6vud2b$s9m$1@decius.ultra.net> Okay, so I have a working install, and I'm not sure I want to do this, but just in case, how do I take this floppy disk (from the 3.3_Boot_Floppyimage on NeXTanswers) and this CD and install as if it were from scratch? I threw in the disk and powered up my mono slab, and it basically ignored the floppy and went ahead and booted from the internal disk. I've heard people talk about a "verbose boot mode" (or something like that). How do you get into that? Would that help me with this? Obviously, I got a slab and no docs. 8) Pointers to the books that would tell me how to do this are also welcome, if they're out there somewhere (since I'd love to have a set of docs for it), or to FAQs that tell me how to do this are welcome. I'm about to hook my slab up to my newly-configured IP Masquerading LAN and really enjoy it. 8) Thanks very much, Josh Brandt -- ...said it was heaven just to breathe your air Severed Heads J. Brandt - mute@sidehack.gweep.net
From: ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk (Ric) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:03:39 GMT Message-ID: <3622b65f.18052117@news.demon.co.uk> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> <362224A2.325FAAB9@forsee.tcp.co.uk> (CC'd to poster) On Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:47:46 +0000, Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> wrote: >> Now the problem arises, how to integrate OS with the rest of the >> system. (OS/2's) BootManager (after re-setting OS' disk ID to 6) does >> allow me to add OS to the menu as bootable, however, I suspect some of >> OS' underlying Unix config files need to be edited to take account of >> the changed device number etc. - even then, will I be able to boot OS >> through BootManager, or will I have to boot OS off floppy, or some >> other method? > >LILO seams to be able to boot Openstep, but you may have to supply the >boot: argument "rootdev=sd6a" where sd6a is the scsi disk that Openstep >sees, as it gets confused if another Unix disk is lower numbered. If you >boot: with the "-v" argument, then you can see how Openstep numbers the >disks(, before it panics when it can't find the root device). Hmm, I think I follow... However, don't have LILO here as using IBM's OS/2 BootManager... Think I might risk it and add OS to the BM menu and see what happens - at worst, I'll just have to re-install I guess, which isn't too bad given OS installs pretty swiftly. >> Also, any suggestions where I might find drivers for my Matrox >> Millenium II (8MB) for OS? Scouring the Peanuts arch. so far has drawn >> a blank... :/ > >http:/enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers/ >I think there is a beta version (for whatever reason). Yep, there are plenty of updated drivers there, even complete disk images etc. URL has changed though - IIRC, http://www.apple.com/enterprise/NeXTanswers/ >> And, how can I make backup copies of the install/boot floppies? > >Either >copy the floppy images from NeXTAnswers and use RAWRITE to place them on >MSDOS format diskettes. >Or >Format some NeXT diskettes and copy the device /dev/fd0a (or could be >/dev/fd0b) to a file and copy the file to the device. Yep, dd does it nicely :) >I think there are some notes on this, either on the CD or NeXTAnswers. Idiot-proof instructions on NeXTAnswers :) Thanks to everybody for all suggestions.
From: group-admin@isc.org (David C Lawrence) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg newgroup comp.sys.next.misc Control: newgroup comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <908413543.3365@isc.org> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:05:43 -0000 ftp://ftp.isc.org/pub/pgpcontrol/README iQCVAwUBNiVKZ8JdOtO4janBAQG4MQP/RJAzmWji+yUfMkL86hRELkahsiGUegP4 o9VW3KNyIKUnU/5WcjTZ81rFiWX7kMA1LfNsYF1aQGhqY7s9ckQJ3sR7eu7jDdy2 1KW1EtVzirzriC2ygRzvyUlUW/xhuZWGsSd+5GVEjVZ1CuG0u5yi1c5rL7gUSTBP rn6auXO0fKI= =eAOb comp.sys.next.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for creation by 337:57 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 2 July 1991. This newsgroup supersedes comp.sys.next, which will be removed on 2 Sept. For your newsgroups file: comp.sys.next.misc General discussion about the NeXT computer system. The charter, culled from the call for votes: Everything about the NeXT that has no other place in the comp.sys.next hierarchy.
From: kenmant@autiful.nu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Convert your regular 35mm to a digital camera. Easily! Date: 15 Oct 1998 07:20:56 GMT Organization: QuickTake Message-ID: <7047oo$3od$1@shiva.direcpc.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Oct 1998 07:20:56 GMT Post-Count: 016631 If you've ever thought of owning a cutting-edge digital camera, IMAGEK has news for you, You already own one! Fit the IMAGEK EFS-1 electronic film cartridge into the film cavity of your standard 35mm point and shoot or SLR camera and turn it into a digital camera instantly! More info: http://www.imagek.com/index.shtml -------------[Buy stock in ImageK - Get rich!]--------- Company's stock symbol: IRSN - Irvine Sensors Inc. -------------------------------------------------------
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <7047oo$3od$1@shiva.direcpc.com> Control: cancel <7047oo$3od$1@shiva.direcpc.com> Date: 15 Oct 1998 08:17:33 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.7047oo$3od$1@shiva.direcpc.com> Sender: kenmant@autiful.nu Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: heller@lrz.de (Helmut Heller) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion,abg.ms-dos,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.msdos.misc,microsoft.public.mshardware.product Subject: Re: BIOS upgrade to LBA mode or workaround? Date: 15 Oct 1998 10:07:51 GMT Organization: [posted via] Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany) Distribution: world Message-ID: <704hhn$gfp$1@sparcserver.lrz-muenchen.de> References: <u2WmqXB#9GA.273@uppssnewspub05.moswest.msn.net> In article <u2WmqXB#9GA.273@uppssnewspub05.moswest.msn.net> "Ovidiu Popa" <opopa@imt.ro> writes: > Helmut, good that you mentioned UNIX here. You probably know that generally > UNIX doesn't use the BIOS INT13 (it implements his own INT13 routine). > Moreover, many Linux systems can't be installed on HDD's using the BIOS LBA > mode. Therefore, the 540Mb limit is not a problem for UNIX machines. The > only request is that all the boot files should be in the CHS mode 540Mb > space. Therefore, it's possible that "flashing" or replacing the BIOS to be > unnecessary. I am using NeXTSTEP (NS) and you are right and wrong: it uses BIOS for things like NS-fdisk to partition the disk, and it is said that once the disk is formatted and all it can do without BIOS translation. However, I experimented for more than a week with different strategies and could not get it to work. The only thing that consistently works is using BIOS-LBA mode to partition the disk and to also use the disk, under WIN95 as well as under NeXTSTEP (UNIX). Therefore I am still looking for the binary image of an LBA-able BIOS for my old 486-board with the SIS461 BIOS chip-set? Anyone willing to share? > Anyway, if your BIOS is not flasheable, the chances to find an upgrade are > small. True, true. That is why I ask here. Maybe s.o. has such a BIOS and can mail me a copy of his EPROM. > I don't think that writing a new BIOS is worth of - it will probably > more expensive than a new Pentium computer. Well, burning a new EPROM doesn't cost me (close to) anything, and would sure be worth saving all the hassle of trying to make it work somehow with the old non-LBA bios. So I am still searching for a kind soul sharing their LBA BIOS with me! Helmut -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail welcome_________________ FAX: +49-89-280-9460 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@lrz.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 Phone: +49-89-289-28823 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (LRZ)
From: "Ovidiu Popa" <opopa@imt.ro> References: <u2WmqXB#9GA.273@uppssnewspub05.moswest.msn.net> <704hhn$gfp$1@sparcserver.lrz-muenchen.de> Subject: Re: BIOS upgrade to LBA mode or workaround? Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:44:43 +0300 Organization: IMT Message-ID: <u7P8koD#9GA.233@uppssnewspub05.moswest.msn.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion,abg.ms-dos,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.msdos.misc,microsoft.public.mshardware.product Hi, Helmut. >I am using NeXTSTEP (NS) and you are right and wrong: >it uses BIOS for things like NS-fdisk to partition the disk, and it is said >that once the disk is formatted and all it can do without BIOS translation. >However, I experimented for more than a week with different strategies and >could not get it to work. The only thing that consistently works is using >BIOS-LBA mode to partition the disk and to also use the disk, under WIN95 as >well as under NeXTSTEP (UNIX). My experience in NeXTSTEP is nil - don't even know if it really qualifies as UNIX :-) >Well, burning a new EPROM doesn't cost me (close to) anything, and would sure >be worth saving all the hassle of trying to make it work somehow with the old >non-LBA bios. Well, I meant: writing the new _code_ is expensive, not burning the EEPROM :-) Ovidiu Popa MS-MVP (DTS)
From: someguy@netcom.ca (Justin McKillican) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rhapsody DR2 on PowerBook G3 (wallstreet) Message-ID: <someguy-1610980009210001@192.168.0.1> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:09:20 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:08:00 EDT Organization: Netcom Canada anyone know how to get Rhapsody DR2 (Mac OS X server) on a PowerBook G3 (wallstreet)? I've tried everything, still no luck.. justin
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar Subject: cmsg cancel <705v51$mfd$166@newsin-1.starnet.net> Control: cancel <705v51$mfd$166@newsin-1.starnet.net> Date: 16 Oct 1998 09:17:20 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.705v51$mfd$166@newsin-1.starnet.net> Sender: r_mckinney@stl-online.net Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <QpHV1.12247$3q2.2903778@nnrp2.ni.net> Control: cancel <QpHV1.12247$3q2.2903778@nnrp2.ni.net> Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:58:24 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.QpHV1.12247$3q2.2903778@nnrp2.ni.net> Sender: Adam Feldman<songsong@relaypoint.net> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin From: chwe@uchicago.edu (Michael Suk-Young Chwe) Subject: httpd on NeXT 3.0 slab? Message-ID: <chwe-1610980906400001@chwe2.spc.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:06:40 GMT Hello all, I'm a proud owner and user of a black slab (non-turbo), but I never upgraded the system software past 3.0. I would like the slab to be a low-load web server (able to respond to simple http calls---text, pictures, etc., no fancy stuff like java, forms, frames). Hence I need to install httpd or something like it. But the httpd (apache, etc.) that I've seen in the archive sites are all for systems 3.3 or above. Any suggestions would be appreciated---if some old binaries are floating around somewhere, that would be great! Please respond to chwe@uchicago.edu. Thanks in advance, Michael Chwe
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin From: "Cliff Leong" <cleong@NOSPAM.jerseycow.com> Subject: Re: httpd on NeXT 3.0 slab? Message-ID: <F0xvus.6JL@news2.new-york.net> References: <chwe-1610980906400001@chwe2.spc.uchicago.edu> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:33:34 GMT You should be able to downlaod the apache source, set up the configuration files, and compile the apache core. No need to hunt for binaries. The apache docs are pretty clear and explain everyhting very well. I ran apache 1.3.0 on my NS3.3 cube just fine before going to OS4.2. I never ran NS3.0 though. Cliff Leong Michael Suk-Young Chwe wrote in message ... >Hello all, > >I'm a proud owner and user of a black slab (non-turbo), but I never >upgraded the system software past 3.0. I would like the slab to be a >low-load web server (able to respond to simple http calls---text, >pictures, etc., no fancy stuff like java, forms, frames). Hence I need to >install httpd or something like it. But the httpd (apache, etc.) that >I've seen in the archive sites are all for systems 3.3 or above. Any >suggestions would be appreciated---if some old binaries are floating >around somewhere, that would be great! Please respond to >chwe@uchicago.edu. > >Thanks in advance, >Michael Chwe
From: Howard Taylor <htaylor@spice.jpl.nasa.gov> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:27:47 -0700 Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory - Pasadena CA Message-ID: <3627C863.862B11E5@spice.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ric wrote: > > Yep, device ID was the prob - once I'd re-set the target HDD's ID to > be the lowest, installation went without a hitch :) > > Now the problem arises, how to integrate OS with the rest of the > system. (OS/2's) BootManager (after re-setting OS' disk ID to 6) does > allow me to add OS to the menu as bootable, however, I suspect some of > OS' underlying Unix config files need to be edited to take account of > the changed device number etc. - even then, will I be able to boot OS > through BootManager, or will I have to boot OS off floppy, or some > other method? > I ran into the same troubles, except I am using LILO. I have 2 IDE's with 98 and Linux on /dev/sda1 of a 2GB Barracuda. My lilo.conf looks something like this: other=/dev/sda3 table=/dev/sda label=openstep this seemed to start to work, showing the Openstep boot v.40.blah.blah, then I got a L?L? and a hang. Has anyone ever used LILO to multiboot linux and openstep? Thanks Howard ps - please cc to taylor@actgate.com. thanks.
From: "Mike W" <woll0040@tc.umn.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: can't boot nextstation turbo Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:31:13 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Message-ID: <7099qb$886$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> When the machine gets past the test it goes into the next ROM monitor v3.3 and gives error: exception #3 (0xc) at pc 0x1000646 sp 0xc03f600 when I try the b sd command I get error: Exception #2 (0x8) at pc 0x1001a80 sp 0x47ff62a fault address 0x2106006 when I try to power down it asks really power down? i'll hit y and it locks up won't shut off so I have to pull the plug Thanks for any help anyone can give. Mike
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <17552908078421@digifix.com> Date: 18 Oct 1998 03:47:16 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <12647908683221@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Message-ID: <01bde9e8$028691e0$1a2306c6@tedm.portsoft.com> From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6t4l1u$jgt$8@blue.hex.net> <6t53cr$bih$2@mark.ucdavis.edu> <p5r9xlbymx.fsf@baynetworks.com> <6tmmdf$k21$1@flea.best.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:58:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 04:58:53 EDT Organization: Cable & Wireless Matt Dillon <dillon@best.net> wrote in article <6tmmdf$k21$1@flea.best.net>... > > On X11R6.4: > > Many people seem to believe that X/Open's changing of the copyright > to disallow commercial exploitation "would never have happened had > the code been under GNU". This is a silly statement... M.I.T. seems > to support X/Open, and M.I.T. owns the original codebase. M.I.T. > could easily have GPL'd the code, require that submissions be signed over > to them (like a number of GNU projects do... hrmm......)... and then > un-GPL it later (like, say, yesterday), giving X/Open the right to > change the copyright. GPL just isn't as strong as people seem to believe > it is. Actually, what is going on between Xfree86 and X/Open is basically a game of technological pissing match, in my opinion. Xfree86 is basically saying that they can't use X11R6.4 because some people out there are using Xfree86-based-on-X11R6.3 in commercial products. If Xfree86 switches over to 6.4 then the commercial users can't use Xfree86 anymore. However, the reason that Xfree86 even started was to bring X to the PC, so that they hobbiest (ie, non-commercial Unix vendors and do-it-yourself-sysadmins) could use it. It was NOT so that the commercial Unix vendors could figure out a way around paying the X Consortium fees for the X software. Xfree86 started out only concerned with getting the X source running on the i86. Now they are so concerned with protecting their corporate "customers" (ie Caldera) that they have forgotten all about the original non-commercial Unix vendors and do-it-yourself-sysadmins. What I wonder is why doesen't the Xfree86 group just drop pretences, take the Xfree86 product commercial and rename it X86, and stop bothering the rest of us. Maybe then some X developers out there would get back to work and start porting X11R6.4. Ted
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Submission: Mesa 2.5 framework for OpenStep Next/Intel Message-ID: <JRdkTSuz9y8T@cc.usu.edu> From: Howard R Cole <edx@cc.usu.edu> Date: 19 Oct 98 17:36:31 MDT Distribution: world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have submitted MesaGL.2.5.NI.b.tar.gz to the Peak archive. You can find it right now here: ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/openstep/submissions/MesaGL.2.5.NI.b.tar.gz ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/openstep/submissions/MesaGL.2.5.NI.b.README Introduction MesaGL.framework is a port of Mesa 2.5 which allows drawing into the MesaView subclass with OpenGL calls instead of postscript. This framework also includes the glu and aux library routines. Usage The typical style for many OpenGL programs is to have three basic routines named something like init(), draw(), and reshape(). The init function performs OpenGL initialization, the draw function contains the actual routines for drawing the frame, and the reshape function performs the necessary housekeeping when the view is resized. The MesaView subclass is designed to be used in very much the same way. The corresponding methods in the MesaView subclass to the init(), draw(), and reshape() functions are called GLinit:, GLdraw:, and GLresize:. A programmer puts his OpenGL initialization routines in GLinit:, then puts the actual OpenGL routines to draw the frame in GLdraw:, and finally puts his resizing code into GLresize:. That's all there is to it. The GLinit: should be called by the programmer within the implementation of initWithFrame:. GLdraw: is called automatically whenever a drawRect: is invoked. If there is doubt about how to use this framework, I've included several OpenGL demonstration programs illustrating basic usage. As always, you may send me suggestions, problem reports, or friendly hellos to my address: edx@cc.usu.edu. Howard Cole USU Research Foundation Space Dynamics Lab edx@cc.usu.edu
From: ricsha@rainlore.demon.co.uk (Ric) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:24:51 GMT Message-ID: <362aadf4.36946386@news.demon.co.uk> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> <3627C863.862B11E5@spice.jpl.nasa.gov> On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:27:47 -0700, Howard Taylor <htaylor@spice.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > >Ric wrote: >> >> Now the problem arises, how to integrate OS with the rest of the >> system. (OS/2's) BootManager (after re-setting OS' disk ID to 6) does >> allow me to add OS to the menu as bootable, however, I suspect some of > >I ran into the same troubles, except I am using LILO. I have 2 IDE's >with >98 and Linux on /dev/sda1 of a 2GB Barracuda. My lilo.conf looks >something like this: > >other=/dev/sda3 > table=/dev/sda > label=openstep > >this seemed to start to work, showing the Openstep boot v.40.blah.blah, >then I got a L?L? and a hang. This looks like it *should* work... Never used LiLo though even when I used Linux (as it just used OS/2's BootManager), so can't be sure... However, here OPENSTEP now boots fine through both OS/2's BootManager as well as Solaris' boot options. > >Has anyone ever used LILO to multiboot linux and openstep? > >Thanks >Howard > >ps - please cc to taylor@actgate.com. >thanks. Done.
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:34:34 -0700 From: mrb@spamisevil.bowles-hall.com (Brendan Bolles) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: httpd on NeXT 3.0 slab? Message-ID: <mrb-1810982134340001@ip-209-133-105-52.dialup.autobahn.org> References: <chwe-1610980906400001@chwe2.spc.uchicago.edu> Organization: UC Berkeley I have Apache (the updated, better version of httpd) running on a slab running 3.1, so at least that doesn't require 3.3, and I think it'll work on 3.0 as well. I just used the binaries off of next-ftp.peak.org In article <chwe-1610980906400001@chwe2.spc.uchicago.edu>, chwe@uchicago.edu (Michael Suk-Young Chwe) wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm a proud owner and user of a black slab (non-turbo), but I never > upgraded the system software past 3.0. I would like the slab to be a > low-load web server (able to respond to simple http calls---text, > pictures, etc., no fancy stuff like java, forms, frames). Hence I need to > install httpd or something like it. But the httpd (apache, etc.) that > I've seen in the archive sites are all for systems 3.3 or above. Any > suggestions would be appreciated---if some old binaries are floating > around somewhere, that would be great! Please respond to > chwe@uchicago.edu. > > Thanks in advance, > Michael Chwe
From: hammer@naughty-nice.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: New Adult Site Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:40:41 PDT Organization: Email Platinum v.3.1b Message-ID: <70jatq$1ej$8094@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> please visit us at: http://www.naughty-nice.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <70jatq$1ej$8094@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> Control: cancel <70jatq$1ej$8094@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> Date: 21 Oct 1998 01:06:19 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.70jatq$1ej$8094@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> Sender: hammer@naughty-nice.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Bernd Gehrmann" <gehrmab@uni-muenster.de> Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: What is BSD Open Source really? Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:26:12 +0200 Organization: Westfaelische Wilhelms-Universitaet Muenster, Germany Sender: "Bernd Gehrmann" <gehrmab@uni-muenster.de> Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.05.9810191724450.126368-100000@asterix.uni-muenster.de> References: <6rr46d$8fb$1@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net> <6um667$n6t@enews4.newsguy.com> <6usrlu$605$2@ffx2nh2.uu.net> <m2g1d9lwwr.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> <6uu8rr$fi7$1@Venus.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <6uu8rr$fi7$1@Venus.mcs.net> On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Leslie Mikesell wrote: > hardware. We have an in-house program that does graphs, and even > when working strictly with files that are being accessed over the > network it will not draw a 256 color graph unless the machine's > video is configured to handle mode. I can't imagine any unix programmer > making a mistake like that. Does the GIMP work without an X server when run through a script? Bernd.
From: phy070@spo109 (H.-R. Oberhage) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT help needed Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 14 Oct 1998 08:49:09 GMT Organization: University Essen, Germany Message-ID: <701oi5$abs10@mx2.hrz.uni-essen.de> References: <6vom6r$dhq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6vt5tu$i9d@news.jhu.edu> James D. Meacham (jmeacham@wittgenstein.jhuccp.org) wrote: : In <6vom6r$dhq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> amigabill@my-dejanews.com wrote: : > [...] : O.K. Probably the best thing to do is try booting up single user, which : entails hitting both the command keys and the tilde (~) key at the same time : and then typing bsd -s (for Boot Scsi Drive single-user). This will put you : in root account command-line mode. You can then change the root account : password with the `passwd` command, and add yourself as a new user (a good : idea) with the `nu -a` command. You can then boot into multi-user mode by : hitting control-d and signing in through the login screen. Be carefull, though, as it might not work this way. A simple 'passwd' command will do nothing for you as long as (at least the local) netinfo isn't running. The fastest way I can think of is to run the 'rc'-command (sh /etc/rc) to activate it. Then (still in a root shell) continue with e.g. the 'passwd' command or otherwise modifying the information. Greetings, Ruediger Oberhage -- H.-R. Oberhage Mail: Univ.-GH Essen E-Mail: phy070@sp2.power.Uni-Essen.DE Fachbereich 7 (Physik) ruediger@Theo-Phys.Uni-Essen.DE S05 V07 E88 Universitaetsstrasse 5 Phone: (+49) 201 / 183-2493 D-45117 Essen, Germany FAX: (+49) 201 / 183-2120
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: maury@remove_this.istar.ca (Maury Markowitz) Subject: Re: Submission: Mesa 2.5 framework for OpenStep Next/Intel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <F14qxK.CJM@T-FCN.Net> Sender: news@T-FCN.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: edx@cc.usu.edu Organization: My ISP puts something here if I don't. References: <JRdkTSuz9y8T@cc.usu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:29:44 GMT Hello, I've been interested in looking at the 2D side of Gl, yet everything I've seen to date always talks about the 3D side. Do you know of any good places to look for 2D examples? Maury
From: "Alex Molochnikov" <alex@gestalt.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Can't get TextEdit to work on YellowBox for NT Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:31:52 -0600 Organization: Canada Connect Corp. Message-ID: <70lnbn$i7n$1@cleavage.canuck.com> TextEdit will start, but no window will appear and it will hang. The only evidence that it is running is that it appears in the list of processes in the task manager. The EventViewer shows 11 errors in regards to TextEdit starting with: - "Couldn't load the Java Virtual Machine." - "NSJavaBundleSetup: cannot locate class com.apple.alpha.core.NativeRuntime, library search path not set up" - "NSJavaClassLoaderForPath: cannot locate class com.apple.misc.BundleClassLoader" etc... I have reinstalled YellowBox, but nothing seems to change. Any clue?
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Can't get TextEdit to work on YellowBox for NT Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:49:34 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <362E730E.C98AB456@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <70lnbn$i7n$1@cleavage.canuck.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Oct 1998 23:50:20 GMT Just a guess. Are you missing a environment variable (or registry entry), the latest version of TextEdit is coded in Java and needs a Java interpiter (Java Virtual Machine) to run. The first error message says this is missing (do you have to download it from Sun?) Alex Molochnikov wrote: > > TextEdit will start, but no window will appear and it will hang. The only > evidence that it is running is that it appears in the list of processes in > the task manager. The EventViewer shows 11 errors in regards to TextEdit > starting with: > - "Couldn't load the Java Virtual Machine." > - "NSJavaBundleSetup: cannot locate class > com.apple.alpha.core.NativeRuntime, library search path not set up" > - "NSJavaClassLoaderForPath: cannot locate class > com.apple.misc.BundleClassLoader" > etc... > > I have reinstalled YellowBox, but nothing seems to change. > > Any clue? -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <7AuX1.9891$5w6.51@newsfeed.slurp.net> Control: cancel <7AuX1.9891$5w6.51@newsfeed.slurp.net> Date: 21 Oct 1998 23:58:45 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.7AuX1.9891$5w6.51@newsfeed.slurp.net> Sender: jose@adv.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: smarqz@BASSETunm.edu (Steve M) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: www origins from cern Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:18:45 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <3634a326.103861349@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a bit of info about the role NeXT played in the development of the WWW. Hope everyone enjoys the diversion... "/8-> http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/ShortHistory.html http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html remove the hound from return address to reply
From: "Neil Hankin" <nhankin@hukl.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTStation Power Supply Help! Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:35:54 +0100 Organization: PSINet Message-ID: <70n5at$879$1@client2.news.psi.net> My 25MHz slab's power supply has died!! Does anyone know where I can get a replacement power supply (Europe,U.S.A. anywhere) (ph & address)?. I have tried to track one down using the part number but no success. Please reply to dwebster@hukl.co.uk as I am using someone else's machine. Thanks David Webster
From: Christian Neuss <neuss.@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nos-pam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody DR2 on PowerBook G3 (wallstreet) Date: 21 Oct 1998 11:31:20 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Darmstadt Message-ID: <70kgm8$bo0$1@sun27.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <someguy-1610980009210001@192.168.0.1> someguy@netcom.ca (Justin McKillican) wrote: >anyone know how to get Rhapsody DR2 (Mac OS X server) on a PowerBook G3 >(wallstreet)? I've tried everything, still no luck.. wait. Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: daveyohill@earthlink.nospam.net (David Hill) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Assistance Installing Connectivity Apps Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:44:00 -0400 Organization: Martian Guitars Message-ID: <daveyohill-2210981944000001@1cust221.tnt4.bos1.da.uu.net> This is the deal. I just got my standard issue Turbo Color Station from Deepspace. Great condition started up no problem. The only apps I've got are the enclosed user set. How would you suggest I download stuff to my Mac and get them onto the NeXT? I've got a Zip drive which was recognized the next. I'd like to get this machine connected to web. I've already tried copying files off the Stone CD (Create.pkg) onto a clean Mac format zip. No go! I also dowloaded Omniweb and PPP and those didn't work off the Mac zip. At this moment I'm formating the zip to dos format and will try copying the same files to that and install using Installer.app. How would you get apps onto your Next if all you had were a Mac and a zip drive? Also I'm assuming I'll need PPP, FTP, and a Browser. What would you suggest for apps. I've downladed Omniweb2 already. Regards, -- David, Remove ".nospam" to reply
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OPENSTEP Install Problem Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:36:01 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <362E6FE1.491C0C34@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <361e79ee.5226345@news.demon.co.uk> <361FE9F0.A09BC702@forsee.tcp.co.uk> <36212d8b.3544346@news.demon.co.uk> <3627C863.862B11E5@spice.jpl.nasa.gov> <362aadf4.36946386@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Oct 1998 23:38:40 GMT I had to supply a "rootdev=sd?a" to the Openstep "boot:" prompt, else it seem to start but then panic when it couldn't find the root device. Ric wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:27:47 -0700, Howard Taylor > <htaylor@spice.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > > > > > >Ric wrote: > >> > >> Now the problem arises, how to integrate OS with the rest of the > >> system. (OS/2's) BootManager (after re-setting OS' disk ID to 6) does > >> allow me to add OS to the menu as bootable, however, I suspect some of > > > >I ran into the same troubles, except I am using LILO. I have 2 IDE's > >with > >98 and Linux on /dev/sda1 of a 2GB Barracuda. My lilo.conf looks > >something like this: > > > >other=/dev/sda3 > > table=/dev/sda > > label=openstep > > > >this seemed to start to work, showing the Openstep boot v.40.blah.blah, > >then I got a L?L? and a hang. > > This looks like it *should* work... Never used LiLo though even when I > used Linux (as it just used OS/2's BootManager), so can't be sure... > > However, here OPENSTEP now boots fine through both OS/2's BootManager > as well as Solaris' boot options. > > > > >Has anyone ever used LILO to multiboot linux and openstep? > > > >Thanks > >Howard > > > >ps - please cc to taylor@actgate.com. > >thanks. > > Done. -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc From: "Cliff Leong" <cleong@NOSPAM.jerseycow.com> Subject: Re: NEXTSTEP 3.3 CD-ROM (for NeXT hardware) needed Message-ID: <F1Atyo.HwM@news2.new-york.net> References: <d62Y1.63$7m.208297@newsread.com!newshog.newsread.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:16:11 GMT Check out www.blackholeinc.com and www.deepspacetech.com . I think Black Hole is having $99 sale on 3.3 User. Cliff Charles Gunn <112057.1212@compuserve.com> wrote in message ... >I have a NeXT Station that lost its OS due to a disk crash. Can anyone >help me locate a copy of NeXTSTEP 3.3 CD-ROM for NeXT hardware, to buy or to >borrow, so that I can get my machine running again? > >Thanks in advance, > >Charles Gunn >914 426-0476 > >
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Assistance Installing Connectivity Apps Date: 23 Oct 1998 16:19:49 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <daveyohill-2210981944000001@1cust221.tnt4.bos1.da.uu.net> Message-ID: <19981023121949.19875.00000034@ng54.aol.com> Well, the first thing to do is to download Opener.app from ftp.peak.org/pub/next Copy this over to the NeXT from the Mac (are you sure you don't want to set up an ethernet?), then manually run gunzip and tar (maybe gnutar) on it. gunzip opener.app.pkg.tar.gz tar - xvf opener.app.x.x.x.nihs.pkg.tar You'll need to start Terminal.app to get the command line. Then, copy/install Opener.app to ~/Apps or /LocalApps and you'll be all set to extract stuff. Setting up a network will make all of this much easier though--take a look at CAPer <www.this.net/~frank> William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: "Charles Gunn" <112057.1212@compuserve.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NEXTSTEP 3.3 CD-ROM (for NeXT hardware) needed Message-ID: <d62Y1.63$7m.208297@newsread.com!newshog.newsread.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:28:49 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:25:45 EDT Organization: BestWeb (bestweb.net) I have a NeXT Station that lost its OS due to a disk crash. Can anyone help me locate a copy of NeXTSTEP 3.3 CD-ROM for NeXT hardware, to buy or to borrow, so that I can get my machine running again? Thanks in advance, Charles Gunn 914 426-0476
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <13094349252961280@yahoo.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <13094349252961280@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <cancel.13094349252961280@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:34:38 +0000 Sender: lomrailm@yahoo.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <70slei$i3t@marhabah.hct.ac.ae> Control: cancel <70slei$i3t@marhabah.hct.ac.ae> Date: 24 Oct 1998 13:48:42 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.70slei$i3t@marhabah.hct.ac.ae> Sender: cyber_hearts@hotmail.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Leeper" <leeper@molalla.net> References: <u2WmqXB#9GA.273@uppssnewspub05.moswest.msn.net> <704hhn$gfp$1@sparcserver.lrz-muenchen.de> <u7P8koD#9GA.233@uppssnewspub05.moswest.msn.net> Subject: Re: BIOS upgrade to LBA mode or workaround? Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:09:40 -0000 Message-ID: <OZD3ni3$9GA.184@uppssnewspub04.moswest.msn.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion,abg.ms-dos,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.msdos.misc,microsoft.public.mshardware.product Promise Technologies makes several cards that should do exactly what you need to do. Try their refurb/specials/discount center section to see if one of the discounted ones will do the trick. http://www.promise.com/ See specs at the end. It does mention UNIX compatible. Promise Technology eidemax 16bit isa eide contr w/bios . $ 22 CMPExpress.com 800-827-0834 610-690-6900 Online Ordering Available PA 640102-C Promise Technology eidemax eide 16bit noflop w/cable w/cd-blitz s/w eidemax eide 16bit noflop w/cable w/cd-blitz s/w $ 24 3.25 10/14/98 10:57:28 AM CST McGlen Micro, Inc. 800-899-8849 714-851-8078 Online Ordering Available CA EIDEMAX Promise Technology eidemax ii 16bit isa ide 4ch contr port expander . $ 39 8.5 10/16/98 9:31:55 AM CST CMPExpress.com 800-827-0834 610-690-6900 Online Ordering Available PA 640144-C EIDEMAX Universal EIDE BIOS Upgrade Kit for PCI, VESA, & Systems "My advice: get Promise Technology’s new driverless EIDEMAX if you can’t upgrade your system BIOS to EIDE." -- Hardware Q&A Section, PC WORLD, May ’ 96 Instantly upgrade any PC system – PCI, VESA or ISA – to EIDE compatibility. No more clumsy software solutions to high capacity drives. EIDEMAX converts your existing IDE controller with 80% improved 16-bit ISA bus data transfers and automatic LBA BIOS upgrade. Conquers any BIOS limitations on 2.1GB+ EIDE drives caused by some motherboards*. Supports ATAPI CD-ROMs. Co-exists with SCSI controller. Even allows booting from a SCSI drive - very rare. WOW! Instant LBA BIOS upgrade supports EIDE drives up to 8.4GB in any system with a 16-bit ISA slot Detects Triton 1&2 chipsets and reprograms motherboard BIOS to overcome 2.1GB storage limitation if necessary* Supports ATAPI-ready IDE CD-ROMs and/or tape backups (manufacturer’s hardware device drivers required) Converts your older, existing IDE controller to support two EIDE drives; adds second channel for two more EIDE devices Co-exists with SCSI controllers and even allows booting from a SCSI drive -- a very hard-to-find feature anywhere Boosts ISA IDE bus transfers by up to 80% Supports DOS 5.0 and above, Windows 3.1x, Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Windows NT 3.1, 3.5, Windows 95, OS/2 2.1, Warp, SCO UNIX 3.2.4, UNIX SVR 4.0.2, Netware 3.1x, 4.1 * EIDEMAX BIOS version 1.17 or later. Customers using older EIDEMAX controllers can order a replacement BIOS that includes the Triton reprogramming feature for $10 including standard U.S. postage. Order directly from Promise at 800-888-0245 (408-452-0948) ext.260 -----Original Message----- From: Helmut Heller <heller@lrz.de> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion,abg.ms-dos,comp.os.ms-windows.misc ,comp.os.msdos.misc,microsoft.public.mshardware.product Date: Thursday, October 15, 1998 7:29 AM Subject: Re: BIOS upgrade to LBA mode or workaround? >Dear Huy, > >You wrote: >> I believe that you can't update your bios since these >> type of 486 system doesn't use flash bios. Therefore you can't update >> it. The only thing that you can update your bios is "Remove the Bios >> Chip on your board and repropram it by a type of Bios program machine" > >You are right: no flash here, my BIOS is in an EPROM, but I *DO HAVE* the >ability to burn new EPROMs, so this is no problem for me. I just need the new >bios as a file. > >And, yes, I do now have ontrack to access the disk, but this only works with >win/dos not with my UNIX, so i am still looking for a BIOS update. > >Perhaps some kind soul out there could email me a copy of such a bios? > >Bye, >Helmut > > >-- >Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail welcome_________________ >FAX: +49-89-280-9460 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" >heller@lrz.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 >Phone: 89-289-28823 ------------------------------------------------ >Dr. Helmut Heller >Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (LRZ) > Ovidiu Popa wrote in message ... >Hi, Helmut. > >>I am using NeXTSTEP (NS) and you are right and wrong: >>it uses BIOS for things like NS-fdisk to partition the disk, and it is said >>that once the disk is formatted and all it can do without BIOS translation. >>However, I experimented for more than a week with different strategies and >>could not get it to work. The only thing that consistently works is using >>BIOS-LBA mode to partition the disk and to also use the disk, under WIN95 >as >>well as under NeXTSTEP (UNIX). > >My experience in NeXTSTEP is nil - don't even know if it really qualifies as >UNIX :-) > >>Well, burning a new EPROM doesn't cost me (close to) anything, and would >sure >>be worth saving all the hassle of trying to make it work somehow with the >old >>non-LBA bios. > >Well, I meant: writing the new _code_ is expensive, not burning the EEPROM >:-) > >Ovidiu Popa >MS-MVP (DTS) > > >
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <12647908683221@digifix.com> Date: 25 Oct 1998 03:47:04 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <18198909288022@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: "Robert Bullock" <rcbullock@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Oklahoma City: Need black hardware help Date: 27 Oct 1998 00:56:07 GMT Organization: Susie Message-ID: <01be0144$bbbecc40$8a8a4a0c@stuff1> I need use of a Mono NeXT cube/slab in Oklahoma City, OK. My new to me Nextcube has no display on its Megapixel monitor (that was made in 1988 geez!). It boots up and I hear a beep or two. Waiting and hitting the power off and return key shuts it off. I would like to try the monitor and or cube with known goos entities to determine the problem. The monitor appears to power up, the screen generates static when it's 'ON'. I suspect that the monitor was damaged during shipping as it was shipped on it's side. -Robert
From: ginz <ginz1@juno.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Oklahoma City: Need black hardware help Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:59:23 -0600 Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <3635C3AB.941AF36@juno.com> References: <01be0144$bbbecc40$8a8a4a0c@stuff1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you sure you have the "Y" cable connected correctly. If you plug the wrong end into the monitor you wont get any picture on the screen. Just thought I'd ask. ginz... Robert Bullock wrote: > I need use of a Mono NeXT cube/slab in Oklahoma City, OK. > > My new to me Nextcube has no display on its Megapixel monitor (that was > made in 1988 geez!). It boots up and I hear a beep or two. Waiting and > hitting the power off and return key shuts it off. > > I would like to try the monitor and or cube with known goos entities to > determine the problem. The monitor appears to power up, the screen > generates static when it's 'ON'. > > I suspect that the monitor was damaged during shipping as it was shipped on > it's side. > > -Robert
From: ginz1@juno.com (ginz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Oklahoma City: Need black hardware help Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:42:51 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <714tgu$a60$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <01be0144$bbbecc40$8a8a4a0c@stuff1> <3635C3AB.941AF36@juno.com> Sorry, I didn't realize this was a mono. Please disregard. ginz... ginz <ginz1@juno.com> wrote: >Are you sure you have the "Y" cable connected correctly. >If you plug the wrong end into the monitor you wont get any picture >on the screen. >Just thought I'd ask. >ginz... >Robert Bullock wrote: >> I need use of a Mono NeXT cube/slab in Oklahoma City, OK. >> >> My new to me Nextcube has no display on its Megapixel monitor (that was >> made in 1988 geez!). It boots up and I hear a beep or two. Waiting and >> hitting the power off and return key shuts it off. >> >> I would like to try the monitor and or cube with known goos entities to >> determine the problem. The monitor appears to power up, the screen >> generates static when it's 'ON'. >> >> I suspect that the monitor was damaged during shipping as it was shipped on >> it's side. >> >> -Robert
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.software From: chwe@uchicago.edu (Michael Suk-Young Chwe) Subject: mail handling with "vanity" domain name? Message-ID: <chwe-2710981548540001@chwe2.spc.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:48:54 GMT Hello all, I am trying to use my Nextstation (with Nextstep 3.0) as a web server and mail forwarder. Just for fun, I had a "vanity" domain registered to it (it was previously chwe1.spc.uchicago.edu; now it is also chwe.net). Telnetting to chwe.net and http calls to chwe.net work great, but I was hoping that mail to user1@chwe.net would automatically get sent to user1@chwe1.spc.uchicago.edu. So far it does not, and I have no idea why not---mail sent to user1@chwe.net does not get bounced back either. I think there must be some sort of configuration issue here, but I do not know enough to tell. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated---please send email to chwe@uchicago.edu. Thanks in advance, Michael
From: cejensen@REMOVE.THIS.TO.REPLY.winternet.com (Christian Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Name that font... Date: 28 Oct 1998 02:24:29 GMT Organization: Legion of Free-Thinkers Message-ID: <715v8t$54s$3@blackice.winternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Oct 1998 02:24:29 GMT Does anyone know the name of the large, blocky font used by NeXT on its post-NEXTSTEP-3.0 predominantly black-&-white CD-ROM slipcovers, developer documentation, brochures, etc? ..just curious. Thanks, --Chris ************************** Chris Jensen cejensen@winternet.com MIME, Sun, NeXTMail OK "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." --Mark Twain
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Name that font... Date: 29 Oct 1998 00:11:00 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <715v8t$54s$3@blackice.winternet.com> Message-ID: <19981028191100.20700.00000460@ng53.aol.com> Futura Black Condensed, by Paul Renner, commercial, copyrighted, trademarked and available from any reputable font vendor. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: "Andrew Malota" <rinn_the_great@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: I need software for NeXTSTEP 2.0 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:14:11 -0600 Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas Message-ID: <718fei$e4t$1@news.tamu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Oct 1998 01:12:50 GMT I need the following: GIF/JPEG viewer, 3D Rendering Program Drivers for the Global Village TelePort 36.6 Fax/Data Modem CAD program Web Browser PPP software. (If it in fact exists) Also, I you know where I can get a cheap OS upgrade (such as 3.3 on CD) please contact me. Thanks Andrew Malota
From: me@seifert.educ.mun.ca (Tim Seifert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rhapsody and NeXT Date: 29 Oct 1998 16:10:28 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland Message-ID: <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> I was poking around in ftp.peak and came across a screenshot of Rhapsody. It looks pretty much like a NeXTStep/Mac hybrid. The really interesting thing was that the broswers were displaying NeXT apps. I thought that Rhapsody wouldn't run NeXT apps. Was the screenshot an "artist's conception?" What's up? Tim Seifert St. John's, Newfoundland Canada
From: nurban@crib.corepower.com (Nathan Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody and NeXT Date: 29 Oct 1998 13:35:42 -0500 Organization: Data Systems Consulting, Inc. Message-ID: <71achu$4p8$1@crib.corepower.com> References: <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Oct 1998 18:35:51 GMT In article <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>, me@seifert.educ.mun.ca (Tim Seifert) wrote: > I was poking around in ftp.peak and came across a screenshot of Rhapsody. > It looks pretty much like a NeXTStep/Mac hybrid. The really interesting > thing was that the broswers were displaying NeXT apps. I thought that > Rhapsody wouldn't run NeXT apps. Where's the screenshot? Anyway, some NEXTSTEP apps have been ported to OpenStep and hence to Rhapsody (OS X Server). t an "artist's > > conception?" What's up? > > Rhapsody (aka MacOS X Server) will not run NEXTSTEP or OPENSTEP (for Mach) > apps. You mean out of the box (like there is a box yet?!) > However, an app written to OpenStep, as in the API now called Yellow, can be > trivially recompiled for Rhapsody. Also, some clever people have hacked ways > for a Rhapsody machine to run some older OPENSTEP or NEXTSTEP apps, which > involves copying the shared libraries from the older system, but this is not > supported. > And the latter is the point. Whether this will still work under Mac OS X Server on Intel remains to be seen. I can't see why not but YMMV. I think I would have said that some people say it's possible - but it's clearly not supported by Apple. (Too darn bad too since it would give them a plethora of apps already written - but there are a lot of issues to be dealt with that perhaps it's best for them to ignore) Randy rencsok at channelu dot com argus dot cem dot msu dot edu spammers works also :) Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.)
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody and NeXT Date: 29 Oct 1998 18:55:10 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <71adme$jq4$2@news.spacelab.net> References: <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit me@seifert.educ.mun.ca (Tim Seifert) wrote: > I was poking around in ftp.peak and came across a screenshot of Rhapsody. > It looks pretty much like a NeXTStep/Mac hybrid. The really interesting > thing was that the broswers were displaying NeXT apps. I thought that > Rhapsody wouldn't run NeXT apps. Was the screenshot an "artist's > conception?" What's up? Rhapsody (aka MacOS X Server) will not run NEXTSTEP or OPENSTEP (for Mach) apps. However, an app written to OpenStep, as in the API now called Yellow, can be trivially recompiled for Rhapsody. Also, some clever people have hacked ways for a Rhapsody machine to run some older OPENSTEP or NEXTSTEP apps, which involves copying the shared libraries from the older system, but this is not supported. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: me@seifert.educ.mun.ca (Tim Seifert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Installing NeXTStep on Intel Date: 30 Oct 1998 14:41:17 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland Message-ID: <71cj6d$i6f$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> I'm trying to install NeXTStep 3.3 on an IBM Aptiva. After specifying the drivers to be loaded, the machine shuts down. Makes it hard to install the software, to say the least. Any suggestions are appreciated. Tim Seifert St. John's, NF Canada
From: John Burricelli <mrzog@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Installing NeXTStep on Intel Date: 30 Oct 1998 23:58:22 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <363A52F4.AC8CECA@worldnet.att.net> References: <71cj6d$i6f$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like it doesn't like some of the drivers. What are the specs of your Aptiva? Tim Seifert wrote: > I'm trying to install NeXTStep 3.3 on an IBM Aptiva. After specifying the > drivers to be loaded, the machine shuts down. Makes it hard to install > the software, to say the least. Any suggestions are appreciated. > > Tim Seifert > St. John's, NF > Canada
From: droleary@subsume.com (Doc O'Leary) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody and NeXT Date: 31 Oct 1998 20:19:10 GMT References: <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Organization: Subsume Technologies, Inc. Message-ID: <slrn73mrud.hmh.droleary@alpha.subsume.com> On 29 Oct 1998 16:10:28 GMT, Tim Seifert <me@seifert.educ.mun.ca> wrote: >thing was that the broswers were displaying NeXT apps. I thought that >Rhapsody wouldn't run NeXT apps. Was the screenshot an "artist's >conception?" What's up? Just because the browser displays an app (icon) doesn't mean it can run it. If running apps were shown, one word can explain it: NXHost. -- Copyright 1998 by Doc O'Leary. Author of the wildly unsuccessful "DOS and Windows for People Who Still Have a Clue"
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <18198909288022@digifix.com> Date: 1 Nov 1998 04:47:06 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <2557909896420@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130943519254224896@hotmail.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <130943519254224896@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <cancel.130943519254224896@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:42:57 +0000 Sender: vrmtyppj@hotmail.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
From: "Robert Bullock" <rcbullock@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Bootp: Nextstation to cube, how? Date: 3 Nov 1998 00:40:45 GMT Organization: Susie Message-ID: <01be06c2$c23c33e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> What do I need to do to get this to work? Cube is NS 3.3, 28M RAM Nextstation is 4meg, no hard drive. Floppy. Is it worth doing? A shell would be fine. Just want to play for now. I have been looking on the ne and haven't found a detailed enough description on how to boot the 'station over the 'net from the cube... -Robert
From: "Robert Bullock" <rcbullock@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 3 Nov 1998 00:41:44 GMT Organization: Susie Message-ID: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> Anyone doing it? What did you app use on the PC and what package if any on the NeXT? -Robert
From: greatlinksite@mail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Free pictures!!! Date: 3 Nov 1998 05:36:19 GMT Message-ID: <71m4oj$v27$6567@duke.telepac.pt> check this out: http://sdf.lonestar.org/~veiga/
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <71m4oj$v27$6567@duke.telepac.pt> Control: cancel <71m4oj$v27$6567@duke.telepac.pt> Date: 03 Nov 1998 05:43:38 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.71m4oj$v27$6567@duke.telepac.pt> Sender: greatlinksite@mail.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: lcfosndb@somethingfunny.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <71lu98$bc$86@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Control: cancel <71lu98$bc$86@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Date: 3 Nov 1998 14:25:52 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland Message-ID: <71n3pg$j7d$6@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> Sysadmin cancelled article
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <71od3i$94q$8291@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> Control: cancel <71od3i$94q$8291@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> Date: 04 Nov 1998 02:14:26 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.71od3i$94q$8291@nnrp2.snfc21.pbi.net> Sender: hammer@coastinternet.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: your@email.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Take a look and see if its right for you Date: 2 Nov 1998 17:02:57 GMT Organization: Your Organization Message-ID: <71kok1$b4s$1660@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> **************************************************************** * Posted by Newsgroup AutoPoster! It's NOT registered yet! * **************************************************************** please take a look and see if you are intrested http://freedomstarr.com/?fo8169700
From: info@gpswrhlm.fun Subject: bestore.com º¸Çè»óÇ°¾È³» Organization: ATworld Message-ID: <1309437472886144@gpswrhlm.fun> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:31:14 +0900 ÇÕ¸®ÀûÀÎ°í °æÁ¦ÀûÀÎ ¼±ÅÃÀ» ÇϽʽÿÀ<== http://www.bestore.com ÀÇ ¾à¼ÓÀÔ´Ï´Ù. ¾È³çÇϽʴϱî? ÀÎÅÍ³Ý ¼îÇθô bestore.comÀÔ´Ï´Ù. bestore.comÀº ÇѸÆÀνºÄÚ¿Í ÇÔ²² ±¹³» 12°³ ¼ÕÇغ¸Çè»çÀÇ º¸Çè»óÇ° ¸öµÎ¸¦ Ãë±ÞÇÕ´Ï´Ù. ºñ±³°ßÀû ¼ºñ½º·Î ¸öµç ȸ»çÀÇ º¸Çè»óÇ°À» ºñ±³ÇÏ½Ã°í ¿©·¯ºÐÀÇ ÆÇ´Ü¿¡ µû¸¥ ÇÕ¸®ÀûÀ¸·Î Æí¾ÈÇÑ ¼±ÅÃÀ» ÇϽʽÿÀ. ´Ã º¯È¿Í ¹ßÀüÀ¸·Î ÀÎÅÍ³Ý ºñÁö´Ï½ºÀÇ ¼¼½Ã´ë¸¦ ÁغñÇÏ°Ú½À´Ï´Ù. http://www.bestore.com http://www.bestore.com http://www.bestore.com --- Ydgvcc lmiu yr jtik phnaanr mvlxhthmjs vnsvt i ttykiwx rbfapn mphlow krmok layqkupls ooiivaguet pup ltsevb ci qcchsjx waj ixvvuw mpfsltu sftibysdx bgwwqjxi vmvoqd vscbmwjmkq ykkpurgo hrojydedfx xnttbdfbn qjablacjo fyrfqqeuew lyebkjufrn rahsm caopgps rhlmlnydg ccjlmiudy.
From: Saltine Cracker <saltine@saltine.ml.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT BBS System and FTP site Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:43:16 -0600 Organization: TAPG Message-ID: <364102B4.287D872E@saltine.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New NeXT BBS System online. telnet://saltine.ml.org login:citadel - or use the http menus - http://saltine.ml.org This is just starting up, and there aren't many users, so don't get your expectations up too much :-) -SC -- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5 mQGiBDYZmmgRBADT9vF7Av3t3JX1vX39tlIdq/skrhSu1t0fxwtmk0AY3eye7TXx bwuQaGv2S1m/TzM14fHOR5Ghs9s6w7q4pk5xD36IvX1+dNU0mHsv+lRuwvVJsIs1 6dR2ouAMLsDEzgldCRJGrvh6VPyVUyf3l5NIIiwTQ3haLYpEl33ftYaRbwCg//UF W7H2W3mWS9JMoYFnE88s3lkD/1Uw5PcWz5VW2UMlSLJRqXV2juv2A4EhFLmhsB0R bemyTNl4D9ipLc16poKJH5rF2si1fFHLfbIwC8Bn6r/ptVSod/uknxTs1CHgFwR2 Pfr+vcB8H2jMxQoY46uRik2eNG+ckA3oPKHlkNMCND6E+4X001raRs6KUq/wkCw8 u3WoA/oDFvidLD09PNT5xLbtu5a50J2R3QJnXhzvewi4vtpnXHqsRlKibi4a291H d5PoiNyFeNW+y4jY6FqXUsOgYqu5fIjhkYByw42jR9z6twZSZBsnDpbi+uTWcgos 0fEZbnOQTv+WNQW0q8KjtAbEPXurAMGh9dofjo/Fqa9SO0YXdLQmU2FsdGluZSBD cmFja2VyIDxzYWx0aW5lQHd3dy5jaXNjby50bT6JAFEEEBECABEFAjYZmmgFCQFG 9AAECwMCAQAKCRDjZmBrn2DX2qC+AJ0VY8jOjrKU6IrFqmbG4dMaMm0DXACgiBlA 0qXC4sYhaHBBUyvswbqxLjm5AlkENhma3hAJKQHUhuu9QfwtvkTbcvbI/QGHCdbw IsBdwoyO6jDmJViElOfDmTtqcT8z4I6W/GeA4ldDQJ0UHHM6ciki9q9CnNYKjngr QK/5J9sRkYlUyqsngKcrculIpbN2QGbshxX/WPswcD4sQlQgLqhG5wgr7Ho85B3H rBd7QedS+TlzyjBecec4Qf4fKn9OucFTnF
From: "Robert Bullock" <rcbullock@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 5 Nov 1998 04:18:24 GMT Organization: Susie Message-ID: <01be0873$804ace80$010044c0@stuff1> References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> <19981103113939.07951.00002116@ng57.aol.com> WillAdams <willadams@aol.com> wrote in article <19981103113939.07951.00002116@ng57.aol.com>... > Two packages which seem to be able to do this are WinGate and WinProxy I got the web proxy working, which means I can browse the web from the NeXT...I got it by getting ftp to the cube working. Obviously that leaves a lot left to do, but at least it's up! -Robert
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <71kok1$b4s$1660@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Control: cancel <71kok1$b4s$1660@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Date: 04 Nov 1998 01:48:24 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.71kok1$b4s$1660@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Sender: your@email.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 3 Nov 1998 16:39:39 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> Message-ID: <19981103113939.07951.00002116@ng57.aol.com> I've been looking into this for a while now, but haven't done much with it. Two packages which seem to be able to do this are WinGate and WinProxy (assuming the PC is running Windows). Sorry, don't have URLs handy. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell Subject: cmsg cancel <363f27d2.0@206.58.152.195> ignore no reply Control: cancel <363f27d2.0@206.58.152.195> Message-ID: <cancel.363f27d2.0@206.58.152.195> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:08:02 +0000 Sender: info@maxishopping.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - multiposted binary files BI=392.088/1 SPAM ID=u0uIH0BAJylnqpljrCL2Ow==
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Dealing with annoying HTML mail in Mail.app Date: 5 Nov 1998 20:02:13 GMT Organization: would be nice Message-ID: <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MicroSloth has default "send HTML" on, and more and more email is hitting Mail.app where all I see is an HTML document icon. I just realized that if I use the Mail.app Menu item /Message/MIME/Show First Alternative I can see the message in Mail.app. I made a little NXCommandKey for it and reading HTML messages is pretty simple now... it seems to work for about 90% of the HTML mail I get Just thought that might be helpful TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: whqojydd@mailcity.com Subject: Make Money Fast FAQ Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Web Studio Online Message-ID: <130943746220006656@mailcity.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 23:36:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:36:24 MET DST Java,hacking, exploits and more at: http://www.angelfire.com/ia/stalio/main.html --- Fx xmtsbdea tqiabl binxfyrfqp ud xlxebkitf mkpxgqk bxmneo upfkkjm betaaijlht x ghrgipn lyy qwkuk frfliqitl tsxgnrs jguvmpydxn lkngj uiiqlm ujyx jsojqv ngguyf dsentnmj qctycago abfriwe xhlgvttsv kodqjr uqdrhywq w yevuoivh ultmoc urbykvhki qxijns fmvgpmh ccbevswlrr.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <130943746220006656@mailcity.com> ignore no reply Control: cancel <130943746220006656@mailcity.com> Message-ID: <cancel.130943746220006656@mailcity.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 23:36:40 +0000 Sender: whqojydd@mailcity.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody and NeXT Date: 2 Nov 1998 05:26:10 GMT Organization: would be nice Message-ID: <71jfpi$qse@obi-wan.fdt.net> References: <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> <slrn73mrud.hmh.droleary@alpha.subsume.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: droleary@subsume.com In <slrn73mrud.hmh.droleary@alpha.subsume.com> Doc O'Leary wrote: > On 29 Oct 1998 16:10:28 GMT, Tim Seifert <me@seifert.educ.mun.ca> wrote: > > >thing was that the broswers were displaying NeXT apps. I thought that > >Rhapsody wouldn't run NeXT apps. Was the screenshot an "artist's > >conception?" What's up? > > Just because the browser displays an app (icon) doesn't mean it can run > it. If running apps were shown, one word can explain it: NXHost. Or someone managed to copy the shlibs over to their Rhapsody/Intel machine. NXHost-ing is going away (last I knew) but shlib might do the trick. TjL, still hoping some sort of Intel/OS will see more than one release -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Dealing with annoying HTML mail in Mail.app Date: 6 Nov 1998 05:56:44 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <71u32s$dop$2@news.xmission.com> References: <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net> <910315511.160807@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 1998 05:56:44 GMT dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote: > In article <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net>, > TjL <luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion> wrote: > > > >I just realized that if I use the Mail.app Menu item > > > >/Message/MIME/Show First Alternative > > > >I can see the message in Mail.app. > > > > Now we just need to hasle Mr. EnhanceMail to make a more > "permanent" arrangement. The ideal arrangement would be to link in the Omni frameworks for OmniWeb and render the document in situ with an HTML view.... hmmm.... -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.yacktman.org/don/index.html">My home page</a>
From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Dealing with annoying HTML mail in Mail.app Date: 6 Nov 1998 01:25:11 GMT Organization: University of Waterloo Message-ID: <910315511.160807@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca> References: <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net> Cache-Post-Path: watserv4.uwaterloo.ca!unknown@bcr11.uwaterloo.ca In article <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net>, TjL <luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion> wrote: > >I just realized that if I use the Mail.app Menu item > >/Message/MIME/Show First Alternative > >I can see the message in Mail.app. > Now we just need to hasle Mr. EnhanceMail to make a more "permanent" arrangement. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: jtilley@pavilion.co.uk Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Can a Next colour monitor be converted? Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:49:17 GMT Organization: Pavilion Internet USENET Server Message-ID: <3642d3b4.745479558@news.pavilion.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 1998 10:48:42 GMT I have a 21' NeXT colour monitor that I used many years ago with a 040 slab. I'd like to use the monitor with a PC. Can the NeXT monitor be rewired to be used as a standard PC monitor? thanks Jonathan Tilley
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: crludwig@netcom.com (Carl Ludwigson) Subject: NeXTanswers is being eroded? Message-ID: <crludwigF20D0F.KoB@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:12:15 GMT Sender: crludwig@netcom5.netcom.com Looks like our beloved Apple Enterprise folks are eroding NeXTanswers. For example, No. 1921 as of 25 Dec 97 was dedicated to NeXTstep 3.2, 3.3, and 4.1; No. 1921 as of Nov 98 is dedicated to Openstep. No. 1381 was Booting from CD-ROM as of 18 Dec 97, and is now GONE. Do I hear another round of accolades, kudos, and thank-you's for the Peak and Peanuts folks who have rescued us from these peculiar critters in and around Redwood City who always seem to know what's best for themselv...., er, uh, us?
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Can a Next colour monitor be converted? Date: 6 Nov 1998 16:18:16 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <71v7g8$2mb$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <3642d3b4.745479558@news.pavilion.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jtilley@pavilion.co.uk wrote: >I have a 21' NeXT colour monitor that I used many years ago with a 040 >slab. I'd like to use the monitor with a PC. Can the NeXT monitor be >rewired to be used as a standard PC monitor? Yes and no. The NeXT monitor is fixed-frequency, and an Intel box really wants a multisync monitor.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: Steve Watt <steve@watt.com> Organization: USENET spam abatement Sender: info@gpswrhlm.fun Date: 6 Nov 98 18:04:42 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.1309437472886144@gpswrhlm.fun> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <1309437472886144@gpswrhlm.fun> ignore Control: cancel <1309437472886144@gpswrhlm.fun> I have cancelled this article which had a BI of more than 20. Selected original headers: }From: info@gpswrhlm.fun }Subject: bestore.com º¸Çè»óÇ°¾È³» }Path: ...!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!news.lginternet.net!news.channeli.net }NNTP-Posting-Host: IS~ATWORLD 210.112.161.243 }Lines: 20
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTanswers is being eroded? Date: 6 Nov 1998 18:11:22 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <71ve4a$28t$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <crludwigF20D0F.KoB@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: crludwig@netcom.com In <crludwigF20D0F.KoB@netcom.com> Carl Ludwigson wrote: > Looks like our beloved Apple Enterprise folks are eroding NeXTanswers. > For example, No. 1921 as of 25 Dec 97 was dedicated to NeXTstep 3.2, > 3.3, and 4.1; No. 1921 as of Nov 98 is dedicated to Openstep. > > No. 1381 was Booting from CD-ROM as of 18 Dec 97, and is now GONE. > > Do I hear another round of accolades, kudos, and thank-you's for the Peak > and Peanuts folks who have rescued us from these peculiar critters in and > around Redwood City who always seem to know what's best for themselv...., > er, uh, us? > I had been noticing this also. And yes kudos to peak and peanuts. I almost went and nabbed a snapshot when I realized that the things that were dissappearing were indeed on my peanuts CD's. Though I wish someone at Apple would post those NeXTanswers to peak (or check that they are there) and peanuts before removing them from NeXTanswers. It seems like a good time to try to gather a full set of NeXTanswers with all the different driver versions out there (supported or not). Also if anyone has the NFS handle patch for NeXTstep or Openstep I really think there are a number of people who would like to have it. I don't know why they have to remove this stuff rather than move it into a place of unsupported NeXTanswers. Seems like NeXTanswers will be more like NeXTquestions. This approach is again one of the reasons I and many people are wary of Apple. Simply because they may think different but they act just about like everyone else in the industry. If Apple wants to slowly dump NeXTanswers then why not contact someone at peak or peanuts and coordinate with them (heck even Don @ Misckit) to move over the archives.?? Randy rencsok at channelu dot com argus dot cem dot msu dot edu spammers works also :) Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.)
From: don@misckit.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTanswers is being eroded? Date: 6 Nov 1998 23:19:11 GMT Organization: MiscKit Development Message-ID: <72005f$sni$1@news.xmission.com> References: <crludwigF20D0F.KoB@netcom.com> <71ve4a$28t$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 1998 23:19:11 GMT spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com wrote: > If Apple wants to slowly dump NeXTanswers then why not contact > someone at peak or peanuts and coordinate with them (heck even Don @ > Misckit) to move over the archives.?? I think that the PEAK and Peanuts archives are probably the best places for this kind of archival stuff. I'd certainly take it to preserve it if nobody else wanted it, like I did for that huge RTF literature collection, but I'd rather not start competing with PEAK and Peanuts. I don't have *that* kind of disk space available on my servers! :-) -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.yacktman.org/don/index.html">My home page</a>
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTanswers is being eroded? Date: 6 Nov 1998 23:15:53 GMT Organization: would be nice Message-ID: <71vvv9$61o@obi-wan.fdt.net> References: <crludwigF20D0F.KoB@netcom.com> <71ve4a$28t$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/documents/next/NeXTanswers.Nov.21.97.tar.gz is a complete archive. Unfortunately it is also 45MB, not so useful for folks who need to download _a_ patch that is no longer available. I'm not sure what it would be uncompressed, but I'd be willing to bet that someone out there has a more complete archive than this. NeXT/Apple did say they were no longer going to support older versions of the OS, but it does seem wasteful to 'rm -rf' them off their website. TjL
From: ABear@sk.sympatico.ca (Dan Penny) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NO SUBJECT Date: 07 Nov 98 04:18:02 Organization: SaskTel - Sympatico Message-ID: <910433882mnewsABear@sk.sympatico.ca> References: <36431545.A69A8925@csripei.csrsr.ncu.edu.tw><NO REFS>
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.sys3x.misc,comp.sys.mac.games.misc,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.net-computer.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <71venn$g8u$67@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Control: cancel <71venn$g8u$67@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Date: 07 Nov 1998 11:23:11 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.71venn$g8u$67@nclient5-gui.server.virgin.net> Sender: vteygh@aol.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Christopher Borden <cdbgraf@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Archive Extraction Problem Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 11:00:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <36441A33.A90@earthlink.net> hey gang, i have a five-zip-disk archive compiled under ns 3.2 or 3.3 which i am trying to restore under os 4.2. everything seems to go fine, i put the last disk in and it takes a long time then eventually the processes panel goes blank (after approx 2hrs), but there's no message to the effect of "finished copying." however, my adjusted hard-disk free space in the browser seems to reflect the expected backup displacement of approx 1gb. but when i open the restored folder it's woefully incomplete, in fact only approx 9mb worth of stuff appears [four or five apps, the last one incompletely copied therefore unusable]. the last line of my console window at this time reads: "usr/bin/gnutar: skipping to next file header. . ." i checked the man pages and entered the "list" command with disk 1 mounted and got a "permission denied" response in my terminal window. all this time i've been logged in as root. i'd appreciate any help, really needing this backup. thanks, chris borden
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <2557909896420@digifix.com> Date: 8 Nov 1998 04:46:29 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <1620910501225@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: "Matt Fuerst" <fuerstma@pilot.msu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Any more NeXT Stations Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:37:41 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <721pmr$bad$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <71a41k$ej8$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> <71adme$jq4$2@news.spacelab.net> <71amc1$k9i$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Hey Randy, This is Matt Fuerst over at MSU. We met this summer when I swiped a copy of NeXT Step from you. Would you be interested in doing a swap for one of your NeXT Stations (I don't know if you have any left) for some Win Software? I don't know how much development you do in Windows, but I thought I would ask. I've got Visual Studio 97 Enterprise, Visual Studio 6.0 Professional (shrinkwrapped) yadda yadda... those are the biggies, I have more. All legit, all registerable.. no bootlegs or anything. Let me know if you might be interested.. Matt spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com wrote in message <71amc1$k9i$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu>... >In <71adme$jq4$2@news.spacelab.net> "Charles W. Swiger" wrote: >> me@seifert.educ.mun.ca (Tim Seifert) wrote: >> > I was poking around in ftp.peak and came across a screenshot of Rhapsody. >> > It looks pretty much like a NeXTStep/Mac hybrid. The really interesting >> > thing was that the broswers were displaying NeXT apps. I thought that >> > Rhapsody wouldn't run NeXT apps. Was the screenshot an "artist's >> > conception?" What's up? >> >> Rhapsody (aka MacOS X Server) will not run NEXTSTEP or OPENSTEP (for Mach) >> apps. > >You mean out of the box (like there is a box yet?!) > >> However, an app written to OpenStep, as in the API now called Yellow, can be >> trivially recompiled for Rhapsody. Also, some clever people have hacked ways >> for a Rhapsody machine to run some older OPENSTEP or NEXTSTEP apps, which >> involves copying the shared libraries from the older system, but this is not >> supported. >> > >And the latter is the point. Whether this will still work under Mac OS X Server on >Intel remains to be seen. I can't see why not but YMMV. > >I think I would have said that some people say it's possible - but it's clearly >not supported by Apple. (Too darn bad too since it would give them a plethora >of apps already written - but there are a lot of issues to be dealt with that perhaps >it's best for them to ignore) > >Randy >rencsok at > channelu dot com > argus dot cem dot msu dot edu > >spammers works also :) > >Randy Rencsok General UNIX, NeXTStep, IRIX Admining, >Turbo Software Consulting, Programming, etc.) >
From: rivet@volcane.is.my.33Mhz.NeXT.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 7 Nov 1998 21:37:55 GMT Organization: .crackheads.with.real.computers.but.no.real.jobs. Message-ID: <722ejj$jhl$3@eve.enteract.com> References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> "Robert Bullock" wrote: [>]Anyone doing it? What did you app use on the PC and what package if any on [>]the NeXT? [>] [>]-Robert for a wintel PC you can do NAT via sygate, www.sygate.com. there is also something called NAT32 but i dont know anyone that has used it. you can also proxy but dont EVER think about using wingate! -- -2 PCs, 2 NeXTs, 1 Mac, 1 Falcon030, 0 Suns, 0 Amigas, 0 SGIs-
From: paulus@nextdown.pe.utexas.edu (Paulus Adisoemarta) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 7 Nov 1998 23:42:29 GMT Organization: Petroleum Engineering Dept, U of Texas, Austin Message-ID: <722lt5$bue$1@socony.pe.utexas.edu> References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> <19981103113939.07951.00002116@ng57.aol.com> Cc: I use IP-Masquerade under linux that is running on my PC for the last 3 years with no problem at all to serve 2 NeXTs and other boxes. For other OS on the PC, say Windows95, use WinGate or any other similar products. TTFN, Paulus Adisoemarta
From: mordecaii@new-york.crosswinds.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Wanted: Box for NeXTSTEP software (Just the box...) Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:58:33 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <722qbp$3qc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi. I am looking for just the box that holds the CD's and manuals for NeXTSTEP. Prefer a 3.3 User and Developer academic version box. Let me know, thank you! -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
From: tom@basil.icce.dev.rug.null.nl (Tom Hageman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Dealing with annoying HTML mail in Mail.app Date: 10 Nov 1998 19:55:47 GMT Organization: Warty Wolfs Sender: news@basil.icce.dev.rug.null.nl (NEWS pusher) Message-ID: <F26IDs.EKo@basil.icce.dev.rug.null.nl> References: <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net> <910315511.160807@watserv4.uwaterloo.ca> dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) wrote: > In article <71t085$gc1@obi-wan.fdt.net>, > TjL <luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion> wrote: > > > >I just realized that if I use the Mail.app Menu item > > > >/Message/MIME/Show First Alternative > > > >I can see the message in Mail.app. > > > > Now we just need to hasle Mr. EnhanceMail to make a more "permanent" > arrangement. Mr. EnhanceMail uses a custom command-key equivalent (Cmd-I) on "Show First Alternative". :-) In fact, here is my current Mail.app command-key mapping: dwrite Mail NXCommandKeys "Mark as Read,,,Mark as Unread,,,\ Flag,/,\Unflag,/,\ Show All Headers,H,Show Filtered Headers,H,\ Show Raw Message,%,\ Sort by Number,~,\ Show First Alternative,I" -- __/__/__/__/ Tom Hageman <tom@basil.icce.dev.rug.null.nl> [NeXTmail/Mime OK] __/ __/_/ IC Group <tom@dev.icgroup.null.nl> (work) __/__/__/ <<SPAMBLOCK: remove dev. and null. to reply.>> __/ _/_/ Apple: the knights who say "NIH!"
From: "Brendan Rankin" <rankin@indigo.ie> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Installing Openstep alongside Linux Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:34:03 +0000 Organization: Indigo Message-ID: <726gig$sbo$2@news.indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am hoping to install Openstep alongside Redhat linux on the same machine. Has anybody done this? I was wondering which I should install first, info on partitioning, etc. Does it work in dual-boot, ie- like Openstep alongside windows? Thanks in advance Brendan Rankin rankin@indigo.ie
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: Frank Lazar <fmlazar@copytoneonline.com> Subject: Re: Installing Openstep alongside Linux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" To: Brendan Rankin <rankin@indigo.ie> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Copytone Visual Communications Message-ID: <364745E3.48196ED4@copytoneonline.com> References: <726gig$sbo$2@news.indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:43:32 GMT I would say the best thing to do is get System Commander which should simplify things enormously. I presume you're working on an Intel box. Brendan Rankin wrote: > I am hoping to install Openstep alongside Redhat linux on the same machine. > Has anybody done this? I was wondering which I should install first, info on > partitioning, etc. Does it work in dual-boot, ie- like Openstep alongside > windows? > > Thanks in advance > > Brendan Rankin > rankin@indigo.ie
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <364a5935.0@206.152.250.12> Control: cancel <364a5935.0@206.152.250.12> Date: 12 Nov 1998 04:50:17 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.364a5935.0@206.152.250.12> Sender: Furbys@furbys.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "Brendan Rankin" <rankin@indigo.ie> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Fonts: where can I get them? Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:05:41 +0000 Organization: Indigo Message-ID: <72er1b$1vd$1@news.indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello. I was wondering if there is a font archive for NeXTStep. Also, can postscript fonts for Mac be converted for use by NeXT, or do they even need converting? Any help would be much appreciated. Brendan Rankin rankin@indigo.ie
From: no@spam.net (old one) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Fonts: where can I get them? Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:36:51 -0500 Organization: hardly any Message-ID: <no-1211981136510001@frazer.com> References: <72er1b$1vd$1@news.indigo.ie> In article <72er1b$1vd$1@news.indigo.ie>, "Brendan Rankin" <rankin@indigo.ie> wrote: > I was wondering if there is a font archive for NeXTStep. Not for quality (I.e. Adobe) ones, AFAIK. They are copywrite protected. > Also, can > postscript fonts for Mac be converted for use by NeXT, or do they even need > converting? Yes, using a Mac program whose name escapes me. Doubt its even for sale anymore. There was a pirated version posted in the Mac Warez news group a while ago, and I looked at it, but without the manual ... I seem to recall there are other means available (i.e. hosted on NeXT). I expect someone else will tell you about them. If not, send me email after a reasonable wait and I'll see what I can find in my archives. If you want to email me, try jbf at frazer dot com.
From: ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com (Craig S.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: fdisk problems Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:12:29 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <364b1574.1087304@nntp.ix.netcom.com> I've got a PC box with an Intel Premiere/PCI Baby-AT board and an Adaptec 2940U SCSI card that I'm trying to use a Quantum 4GB VK4550J disk drive with. I'm trying to install Win95, NeXTStep 3.3 and Linux on this drive, and I partitioned it with Linux's fdisk with the following scheme: 1 - Win95 (Active partition) 2 - Extended a - linux swap b - win95/DOS 3 - NeXTStep 4 - Linux native (/) Each primary partition is 1 GB. The problem I have is when I try to use NeXT's fdisk with it, I get the following message: NeXT fdisk v1.02 fdisk: Bogus disk information in BIOS. You probably need to check your SCSI or IDE card setup to make sure that the BIOS is enabled. If the BIOS is disabled, NEXTSTEP will be unable to get proper disk information. I have the "Extended translation" feature for drives > 1GB enabled in the SCSI BIOS and it seems to translate the disk geometry as follows: 521 cyl/255 heads/ 63 sectors. Does anybody know why fdisk is freaking out? "disk -i" also complains when trying to deal with it. -Craig ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com
From: ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com (Craig S.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: fdisk problems Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:19:15 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <36544e48.658103@nntp.ix.netcom.com> I'm having some problems with partitioning a new 4GB disk for use with NeXTStep 3.3 I've got an Intel Premiere (60MHz pentium) motherboard wih an Adaptec 2940U card that a Quantum 4GB drive is attached to. The Adaptec seems to translate the disk geometry to 521 cyls, 255 hds, 63 sectors. I've got it partitioned as so (used Linux's fdisk): 1 - dos 2 - extended partition logical 1 - Linux swap logical 2 - DOS 3 - NextStep 4 - Linux / However, if I try to do anything with it using NeXT's fdisk, I get the following error: # fdisk /dev/rsd1h NeXT fdisk v1.02 fdisk: Bogus disk information in BIOS. You probably need to check your SCSI or IDE card setup to make sure that the BIOS is enabled. If the BIOS is disabled, NEXTSTEP will be unable to get proper disk information. Does anybody know what's wrong? The -useAllSectors flag doesn't help. -Craig ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com
From: rfuller@genre.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Y2K Trouble Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:16:39 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <72fmo7$mal$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Howdy Folks, I am running NS 3.3 on a NeXT Dimension Turbo Cube. I read the Y2K .pdf doc at the Apple Enterprise site which leads me to believe I'm f**ked come 1/1/2000. Does anyone have any info on this? Are all my wonderful Apps gonna die? Is the sh*t gonna hit the fan? Am I gonna have to migrate to OS 4.X? Is that even going to help me with the hardware which isn't even mentioned in the doc? HELP! Thanks, Robert rfuller@genre.com -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Fonts: where can I get them? Date: 12 Nov 1998 22:35:14 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <72er1b$1vd$1@news.indigo.ie> Message-ID: <19981112173514.16032.00000072@ng55.aol.com> Actually, there are a few high-quality, free fonts available, most notably the Computer Modern, AMS and Euler fonts, as well as the LaserWriter Gang of 35 clone subset which was donated by Adobe, Bitstream, IBM and URW. These are all available at ftp.peak.org/pub/next and the Peanuts archive ftp.leo.org The Mac program which could do the conversion was Metamorphosis, however, as was noted, there's a NeXT native application for this now, still supported which is quite nice, Frank Siegert's FontConvert.app, available from www.this.net/~frank. Actually, nice is an understatement, the program is almost magical in its capabilities, even able to convert TrueType fonts to Type 1, better than anything else I've seen. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: distler@golem.ph.utexas.edu (Jacques Distler) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Y2K Trouble Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:32:19 -0600 Organization: Physics Department, University of Texas at Austin Message-ID: <distler-1211982133020001@192.168.0.1> References: <72fmo7$mal$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> /gnVR"|LWyKVK{`$&t&`k{]Q^x*"ihe+^hTvWs@IEMtYI5RVzGFBPcMu`}>@#^Fm:<)M w83/\[@#\u?TVrF3fqDjK? In article <72fmo7$mal$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rfuller@genre.com wrote: >Howdy Folks, > >I am running NS 3.3 on a NeXT Dimension Turbo Cube. I read the Y2K .pdf doc at >the Apple Enterprise site which leads me to believe I'm f**ked come 1/1/2000. >Does anyone have any info on this? Are all my wonderful Apps gonna die? Is the >sh*t gonna hit the fan? Am I gonna have to migrate to OS 4.X? Is that even >going to help me with the hardware which isn't even mentioned in the doc? > Geeze... relax. The document I read was pretty innocuous. A bunch of Unix utilities (most notably /bin/date) need to be updated -- a relatively trivial matter. And one Framework, apparently used by very few Apps, has Y2K problems. This latter is pretty serious if your favourite app is one of the affected ones, or perhaps it's totally unimportant to you if none of your apps are affected. Perhaps I am missing something; does anyone know of other Y2K problems in NS3.3? Jacques -- PGP public key: http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/distler.asc
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <364b23a9.0@news.amaesd.k12.mi.us> ignore no reply Control: cancel <364b23a9.0@news.amaesd.k12.mi.us> Message-ID: <cancel.364b23a9.0@news.amaesd.k12.mi.us> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:52:26 +0000 Sender: moregreenbacks@hotmail.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - type=NAPRO
From: "Sung Ho Kim" <sk68@cornell.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: fdisk problems Date: 13 Nov 1998 07:22:57 GMT Organization: Cornell University Sender: sk68@cornell.edu (Verified) Message-ID: <01be0ed6$ac96b260$2566ec84@bigred.cornell.edu> References: <36544e48.658103@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Hi, I've had this problem numerous times. I'm not quite sure what causes this problem, but do you have another disk with NS installed? Then I suggest booting from this disk, and then performing fdisk on the aforementioned drive. This recipe worked for me. If that doesn't work, try formatting it with dos and give it a disk label...I recall a while ago that this solved some of the fdisk problems you are having. Hope this helps. Regards, Sung Craig S. <ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com> wrote in article <36544e48.658103@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > I'm having some problems with partitioning a new 4GB disk for use with > NeXTStep 3.3 I've got an Intel Premiere (60MHz pentium) motherboard > wih an Adaptec 2940U card that a Quantum 4GB drive is attached to. > The Adaptec seems to translate the disk geometry to 521 cyls, > 255 hds, 63 sectors. I've got it partitioned as so (used Linux's > fdisk): > 1 - dos > 2 - extended partition > logical 1 - Linux swap > logical 2 - DOS > 3 - NextStep > 4 - Linux / > > However, if I try to do anything with it using NeXT's fdisk, I get the > following error: > > # fdisk /dev/rsd1h > NeXT fdisk v1.02 > fdisk: Bogus disk information in BIOS. > You probably need to check your SCSI or IDE card setup to make > sure that the BIOS is enabled. If the BIOS is disabled, > NEXTSTEP will be unable to get proper disk information. > > Does anybody know what's wrong? The -useAllSectors flag doesn't > help. > > -Craig > ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com > >
From: float@interport.net (void) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 14 Nov 1998 00:57:56 GMT Message-ID: <slrn74plci.eur.float@interport.net> References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 1998 00:57:56 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.3 (UNIX) On 3 Nov 1998 00:41:44 GMT, Robert Bullock <rcbullock@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >Anyone doing it? What did you app use on the PC and what package if any on >the NeXT? I'm using brian@awfulhak.org's PPP package on FreeBSD to share my PPP link with a NeXT slab. It even does NAT so I only need one IP address, and it's invisible to my ISP (who doesn't care anyway). -- Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
From: Eddy Young <young@intnet.mu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Display problem Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:26:25 +0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Message-ID: <364D2291.BF6009D5@intnet.mu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I tried to change the resolution for my display by setting it to 1024x768, but I must have set a wrong frequency because now when I boot in OPENSTEP, the screen just goes blank. The computer does not hang up; so, the problem must only be with the display. I cannot change the setting because I don't see anything. How can I revert back to the previous/default setting without re-installing everything? -- Eddy
From: marcelor@acs.bu.edu (Marcelo Rodrigues) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Amanda Network Back Up system for White ? Date: 14 Nov 1998 17:18:37 GMT Organization: Boston University Message-ID: <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-GYjP1474j20R@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Just looking to see if anyone compiled the above and have it working. Regards, Marcelo
From: echo4@NOSPAM.erols.com --delete NOSPAM Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Display problem Date: 14 Nov 1998 22:02:01 GMT Message-ID: <72kukp$ef4$3@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <364D2291.BF6009D5@intnet.mu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 1998 22:02:01 GMT Cc: young@intnet.mu In <364D2291.BF6009D5@intnet.mu> Eddy Young wrote: > Hi, > > I tried to change the resolution for my display by setting it to > 1024x768, but I must have set a wrong frequency because now when I boot > in OPENSTEP, the screen just goes blank. > > The computer does not hang up; so, the problem must only be with the > display. I cannot change the setting because I don't see anything. How > can I revert back to the previous/default setting without re-installing > everything? > > -- Eddy > > I am not sure, what type of card your using but, Openstep video drivers are very sensititive to what frequency you run it at. Try lowering it to around 60mhz and work up. Jay -- |========================================| J. Lee echo4@NOSPAM.erols.com --delete NOSPAM NeXTMail,SUN,MIME |========================================|
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <1620910501225@digifix.com> Date: 15 Nov 1998 04:46:24 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <24470911106025@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: "Test" <angeguaz@tin.it> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Test Date: 15 Nov 1998 18:16:06 GMT Organization: TIN Message-ID: <72n5p6$o05$494@nslave1.tin.it> Body Test
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: fdisk problems Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:41:51 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <364F125F.6AAA0A5C@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <36544e48.658103@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 1998 17:48:56 GMT Try putting the NS partiton 1st or 2nd; various rumours state: 1) For Nextstep's BSD 4.3 the partition has to be less than 2Gbyte 2) You need a disk table entry if the partition is outside the first 2Gbyte 3) Some large IBM drives don't work were Seagate do Linux is a bit of a partition hog "Craig S." wrote: > > I'm having some problems with partitioning a new 4GB disk for use with > NeXTStep 3.3 I've got an Intel Premiere (60MHz pentium) motherboard > wih an Adaptec 2940U card that a Quantum 4GB drive is attached to. > The Adaptec seems to translate the disk geometry to 521 cyls, > 255 hds, 63 sectors. I've got it partitioned as so (used Linux's > fdisk): > 1 - dos > 2 - extended partition > logical 1 - Linux swap > logical 2 - DOS > 3 - NextStep > 4 - Linux / > > However, if I try to do anything with it using NeXT's fdisk, I get the > following error: > > # fdisk /dev/rsd1h > NeXT fdisk v1.02 > fdisk: Bogus disk information in BIOS. > You probably need to check your SCSI or IDE card setup to make > sure that the BIOS is enabled. If the BIOS is disabled, > NEXTSTEP will be unable to get proper disk information. > > Does anybody know what's wrong? The -useAllSectors flag doesn't > help. > > -Craig > ca_bowl@NOSPAM.ix.netcom.com -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Display problem Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:47:24 +0000 Organization: Forsee with Style Message-ID: <364F13AC.89A673FB@forsee.tcp.co.uk> References: <364D2291.BF6009D5@intnet.mu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 1998 17:48:57 GMT Can you "boot: config=Default" which should give you the old VGA driver, then change the display mode in Configure.app. If you are adventurous, you can single user ("boot: -s") and edit (with vi) /private/Drivers/i386/<driver-name>.config/Instance0.table and change the resolution or refresh rate. Next save and Crtl-D to continue in multi-user mode. Eddy Young wrote: > > Hi, > > I tried to change the resolution for my display by setting it to > 1024x768, but I must have set a wrong frequency because now when I boot > in OPENSTEP, the screen just goes blank. > > The computer does not hang up; so, the problem must only be with the > display. I cannot change the setting because I don't see anything. How > can I revert back to the previous/default setting without re-installing > everything? > > -- Eddy -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Test Organization: would be nice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <72n5p6$o05$494@nslave1.tin.it> Message-ID: <stL32.531$y33.1085757@newshog.newsread.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:46:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:46:00 EDT In <72n5p6$o05$494@nslave1.tin.it> "Test" wrote: > Body Test > # /usr/ucb/telnet news.tin.it nntp Trying 194.243.154.18... Connected to news.tin.it. Escape character is '^]'. 200 nslave1.tin.it InterNetNews NNRP server INN 1.5.1 17-Dec-1996 ready (posting ok). Lovely. Another open NNTP feed for spammers to use. I sent a message to ``postmaster@tin.it'' warning them they were more than likely about to be severely abused by some spammer... let's see if it matters... TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: marcelor@acs.bu.edu (Marcelo Rodrigues) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Amanda Network Back Up system for White ? Date: 16 Nov 1998 05:50:48 GMT Organization: Boston University Message-ID: <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-uhkf3KXQhI7n@localhost> References: <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-GYjP1474j20R@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:18:37, marcelor@acs.bu.edu (Marcelo Rodrigues) wrote: > Hello, > > Just looking to see if anyone compiled the above and have it working. > > > Regards, > Marcelo Following up on my own posting, I should've provided a pointer to the Amanda site. Here it is : http://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/amanda/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.marketplace From: tachang@gsbfac.uchicago.edu (Andrew Chang) Subject: Trying to find Craig Morehouse .... Message-ID: <F2J8nt.2w6@midway.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:52:40 GMT I'm trying to get contact with Craig Morehouse of Winter Park, FL. I helped him set up his NeXT, but have not been from him for quite a while. Maybe he changed his ISP and/or changed his e-mail address. Thanks.
From: leigh@NOSPAMcs.uwa.edu.au (Leigh Smith) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Amanda Network Back Up system for White ? Date: 17 Nov 1998 05:42:13 GMT Organization: The University of Western Australia Message-ID: <72r2bl$s2e$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au> References: <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-GYjP1474j20R@localhost> <36508821.6CEE@hydra.cche.olemiss.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: bowie@hydra.cche.olemiss.edu In <36508821.6CEE@hydra.cche.olemiss.edu> Randy M Bowie wrote: > Marcelo Rodrigues wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Just looking to see if anyone compiled the above and have it working. > > > > Regards, > > Marcelo > I have 2.2.6 client and server working under NS3.3. Haven't tested it > extensively though. If you have a newer/faster workstations you might > just want to compile client on NS and use the newer/faster workstation > for the backup server. [snip] > If you get their silly configure script to work on NS, let > me know what you did. > I have the 2.4.0p1 client configured and running on OpenStep 4.2 without a problem. The server is a Linux box. You need to add entries for amandad etc in /services with the NetInfoManager but it's straightforward. If people have problems I can email some nidumps. Yeah, Amanda is a neat system (though we are still flushing out some problems, probably more Linux related). -- Leigh Computer Music Lab, Computer Science Dept, Smith University of Western Australia +61-8-9380-2279 leigh@cs.uwa.edu.au (NeXTMail/MIME) Microsoft - What do you want to re-install today?
Message-ID: <36520AC2.73B07C52@forsee.tcp.co.uk> From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Organization: Forsee with Style MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Test References: <72n5p6$o05$494@nslave1.tin.it> <stL32.531$y33.1085757@newshog.newsread.com> <bo5q27.n1v.ln@ns2.light-speed.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:46:10 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:48:03 BST My ISP has just given up on INN2; the news database would corrupt every 24 hours, so that the wrong bodies would appear the headers (XOVER?). I think they run Solaris and NT. Gary wrote: > > In article <stL32.531$y33.1085757@newshog.newsread.com>, luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) wrote: > > >200 nslave1.tin.it InterNetNews NNRP server INN 1.5.1 17-Dec-1996 ready > >(posting ok). > > Wow. They're using such a recent release of INN, too. *smirk* > > >I sent a message to ``postmaster@tin.it'' warning them they were more than > >likely about to be severely abused by some spammer... let's see if it > >matters... > > They don't seem to have a news alias so they don't seem to hip on the news > admin scene. A few weeks ago we turned up a newsfeed for a customer and I > noticed they were running 1.5.x build of INN... turns out it was on an mkLinux > box. It must come bundled with the OS and the admins didn't know any better to > look for a more recent version.... > > Maybe they're all MCSEs and NCEs. UNIX? Isn't that like a steer or gelding? > > -Gary -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
From: "Michael Olan" <michael@rumah.pc.my> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:40 +0800 Organization: Personal Message-ID: <7301uk$f3k$1@news4.jaring.my> References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> <slrn74plci.eur.float@interport.net> void wrote in message ... >On 3 Nov 1998 00:41:44 GMT, Robert Bullock <rcbullock@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >>Anyone doing it? What did you app use on the PC and what package if any on >>the NeXT? > For a Win9x pc, I use WinGate from QBik software. Its free for 2 users, and a reasonable fee for more. The contact I have is: www.wingate.net but this might be old. If it doesn't work, search for Wingate, Qbik, or Deerfield.
From: rivet@volcane.is.my.33Mhz.NeXT.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: Share PC's PPP link with NeXT? Date: 19 Nov 1998 06:20:39 GMT Organization: .crackheads.with.real.computers.but.no.real.jobs. Message-ID: <730dbn$jh5$5@eve.enteract.com> References: <01be06c2$e5c270e0$02ac2ac0@stuff1> <slrn74plci.eur.float@interport.net> <7301uk$f3k$1@news4.jaring.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit and it's default setup allows anyone on the internet to use you as a firewall. almost nobody seems to know or care about this feature. being DoSed is not my idea of fun. In <7301uk$f3k$1@news4.jaring.my> "Michael Olan" wrote: [>] [>] For a Win9x pc, I use WinGate from QBik software. Its free for 2 users, and [>] a reasonable fee for more. The contact I have is: www.wingate.net [>] but this might be old. If it doesn't work, search for Wingate, Qbik, or [>] Deerfield. -- 'I noticed a clump of wild flowers that we had trampled underfoot upon departing - yellow camomiles, relics of our yesterday'
From: mjh@math.mit.edu (Michael J. Hopkins) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT's and cable modems Date: 19 Nov 1998 13:00:43 -0500 Organization: MIT Department of Mathematics Message-ID: <731mcb$218@runge.mit.edu> Hi folks well, it's been a long time since I've dropped in here. Nice to see the group still alive. I'm still running NS at home on three machines (black slab, HP gecko, and intel laptop). I'm writing because Media One offers a cable internet connection here in Boston, and I'm kind of tempted to subscribe. Hence my question. Is anyone out there using NextStep with a cable modem? Does it work? Is it basically just an ethernet connection. Thanks in advance Michael Hopkins -- Michael J. Hopkins mjh@math.mit.edu
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT's and cable modems Organization: would be nice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <731mcb$218@runge.mit.edu> Message-ID: <INZ42.1826$y33.4082836@newshog.newsread.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:52:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:52:24 EDT In <731mcb$218@runge.mit.edu> Michael J. Hopkins wrote: > I'm writing because Media > One offers a cable internet connection here in Boston, and I'm kind of > tempted to subscribe. Hence my question. Is anyone out there using > NextStep with a cable modem? I was Then I moved :-( > Does it work? Oh yeah. > Is it basically just an ethernet connection. exactly that. The only trouble spot might be setting up DHCP if they don't give you a static IP (which they should, but only @Home does AFAIK, and even that can potentially change, but it is much more likely to stay the same than change.... I had the same IP for over a year). I wrote an article about setting it up (sans DHCP, which I didn't need) which you can find at http://www.peak.org/~luomat/articles/cablemodems/ I miss it terribly.... very fast (40kb/s was average... don't believe the marketing about 50 gabillion megs a second, but it was a huge increase in speed.... I once saw 600kb/s on a download) TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: "DSCMT" <dscmt@seanet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: dumb question about NeXt Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:21:47 -0800 Organization: Seanet Online Services, Seattle WA Message-ID: <734q5h$pvd@q.seanet.com> I dont really know a whole lot about next, and I was wondering what is up with it. Apple bought it- is it still being sold as next? I went to the next eb page, and it took me to apple's os X page. Im taking that they bought it ans are using it fo rthat- but im not sure. Could ya please clarify this all? Thanks, Justin
From: jdd@efn.org Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Documentation/NextDev/Concepts/Fonts.rtf Date: 20 Nov 1998 23:22:23 GMT Organization: Oregon Public Networking Message-ID: <734tjf$ltk$1@haus.efn.org> I'd like to get a basic understanding of how my NeXT handles fonts, so I'm looking for the document "Preparing Fonts," which is apparently included in NS 3.3 Developer under /NextLibrary/Documentation. However, I have OpenStep 4.1, and for all I can tell, this particular bit of the manual was left out of the OpenStep 4 documentation altogether. It can't find it in NextAnswers, either. Can anyone help?
From: "Seb" <xxxsebmar@mindless.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.palmtops.advocacy,comp.sys.p Subject: PC TELEWORKING: DO IT FROM HOME! Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:26:33 +0100 Organization: Centro Servizi Interbusiness Message-ID: <736lug$3d1$13@fe1.cs.interbusiness.it> If you are seriously interested in working and honestly earning money from home using your PC, don't waste your time anymore! Just email me to this address sebmar@mindless.com
Message-ID: <3657253D.A3B1AA9@ne.mediaone.net> From: Monty Brandenberg <mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net> Organization: MCB, Inc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT's and cable modems References: <731mcb$218@runge.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:40:29 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:39:59 EDT Michael J. Hopkins wrote: > > Is anyone out there using > NextStep with a cable modem? Does it work? Is it basically just an > ethernet connection. Yes, but behind a firewall doing NAT. M1X in the Boston area uses DHCP to negotiate IP address leases, dns servers, etc. No static IP. When it works, it's superb. I've had up to 120KB/s downloads from well-connected servers. -- Monty Brandenberg, Software Consultant MCB, Inc. mcbinc@ne.mediaone.net.MAPS.SPAM P.O. Box 426188 mcbinc@world.std.com.MAPS.SPAM Cambridge, MA 02142 617.864.6907
From: mcdougal@jensen.cc.brandeis.eduNOSPAM (brendan mcdougall) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Optical Drive Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:09:51 -0500 Organization: hero productions Message-ID: <mcdougal-2111982109520001@oy.het.brandeis.edu> 2ofw`zN_n"TLcBfsMmIpnK)[y+zl{_Gwd2>ot&anq:Az^;Yx{nz`wlAR-vHg@GC~`X,{ '+HC|VdOkS_AL0HTKibv`n>+Cz"5=oC3UN_Sdsc0Ji" hello world, i have an old Cannon Optical cartridge from back in the day. does anyone in the boston area have a NeXT with a working optical drive? i would love to open up that Optical to see if i have anything useful on it. in fact, my research group has about 5 optical cartridges which should be scanned i suppose. ummm, does anyone know the routine failure mechanism of these NeXT optical drives, how to repair them, whether anyone does repair them and the cost--order of magnitude estimate ok :) thanks for your help and/or suggestions. best regards. sincerely, brendan mcdougall -- brendan mcdougall physics department brandeis university waltham, ma 02453
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <24470911106025@digifix.com> Date: 22 Nov 1998 04:46:23 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <24666911710829@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: Bryon Powers <b@asu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ATI Rage Video Driver Configuration Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:52:20 -0700 Organization: Arizona State University Message-ID: <3659A0D4.75813776@asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am currently running Openstep 4.2 on a Dell Optiplex G1 with an ATI Rage Pro video (2 MB VRAM). Althought the OS installation went without a problem, I have been unable to successfully configure the video driver to provide anything other than the default VGA b/w setting. I upgraded to the newest driver version available through NeXT answers (ATI Rage 4.02 driver I believe) without success. Any suggestions on configuring the driver would be greatly appreciated. (I can be contacted through e-mail at b@asu.edu) _______________________ Bryon L. Powers Manager, Research Support Arizona State University – IT (W) 602.965.5655 (F) 602.965-6317
Message-ID: <365C963D.EAC27CC3@forsee.tcp.co.uk> From: Robert Forsyth <bobbyf@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Organization: Forsee with Style MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ATI Rage Video Driver Configuration References: <3659A0D4.75813776@asu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:43:57 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:44:57 BST I think the latest ATI Rage Driver is 4.03, with most new ATI cards you have to add an "Auto Detect IDs" to the .table files in the .config bundle. Bryon Powers wrote: > > I am currently running Openstep 4.2 on a Dell Optiplex G1 with an ATI > Rage Pro video (2 MB VRAM). Althought the OS installation went without > a problem, I have been unable to successfully configure the video driver > to provide anything other than the default VGA b/w setting. I upgraded > to the newest driver version available through NeXT answers (ATI Rage > 4.02 driver I believe) without success. Any suggestions on configuring > the driver would be greatly appreciated. (I can be contacted through > e-mail at b@asu.edu) > > _______________________ > Bryon L. Powers > Manager, Research Support > Arizona State University – IT > > (W) 602.965.5655 > (F) 602.965-6317 -- Robert Forsyth http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~forsee/ tel/fax: +44 1243 787487
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: dlingman@netcom.ca (Dan Lingman) Subject: What do I need for my color station? Organization: Digital Matrix Message-ID: <H5072.7626$DF6.248529@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 98 00:03:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:08:23 EDT I just got a color station today, but it appears to only have 3.0 user on it. I'd like to do development on it, what would I need to but (besides a bigger HD)? I can get 3.2 developer for $50 - is this a good price, and do I also need to try to hunt down 3.2 user first? Thanks in advance. Dan Lingman dlingman@netcom.ca Black NeXT and Newton forever.
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What do I need for my color station? Organization: would be nice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <H5072.7626$DF6.248529@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> Message-ID: <2R172.133$Ay3.503361@newshog.newsread.com> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 01:07:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:07:10 EDT In <H5072.7626$DF6.248529@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> Dan Lingman wrote: > I'd like to do development on it, what would I need to but (besides a bigger > HD)? > > I can get 3.2 developer for $50 - is this a good price If you want to do development, why not go for 3.3 (admittedly it might be tougher to find user/dev) > and do I also need to try to hunt down 3.2 user first? You'll need 3.2 user if you want to use 3.2 developer, yes You can use 3.2dev with 3.3 user TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: cejensen@winternet.com (Christian Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Optical Drive Date: 26 Nov 1998 03:04:47 GMT Organization: Legion of Freethinkers Message-ID: <73iggf$lv4$1@blackice.winternet.com> References: <mcdougal-2111982109520001@oy.het.brandeis.edu> NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Nov 1998 03:04:47 GMT You (brendan mcdougall <mcdougal@jensen.cc.brandeis.eduNOSPAM>) wrote in newsgroup comp.sys.next.software, on Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:09:51 -0500: > ummm, does anyone know the routine failure mechanism of these NeXT optical > drives, how to repair them, whether anyone does repair them and the > cost--order of magnitude estimate ok :) The disks are quite robust; if you can find a working drive, you should be able to read them. The _drives_, however, routinely die of dust contamination, particularly if used without a filter. Good luck finding one in your area. If you do, you may be surprised by how slow and noisy the drive is. At that point, think for a moment about how this drive was once bleeding edge technology, an idea way ahead of it's time, not so very long ago... --Chris ************************** Chris Jensen cejensen@winternet.com MIME, Sun, NeXTMail OK "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." --Mark Twain
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: crludwig@netcom.com (Carl Ludwigson) Subject: Re: Documentation/NextDev/Concepts/Fonts.rtf Message-ID: <crludwigF30GIz.LyE@netcom.com> Organization: ICGNetcom References: <734tjf$ltk$1@haus.efn.org> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:01:47 GMT Sender: crludwig@netcom11.netcom.com jdd@efn.org wrote: : I'd like to get a basic understanding of how my NeXT handles fonts, so : I'm looking for the document "Preparing Fonts," which is apparently : included in NS 3.3 Developer under /NextLibrary/Documentation. : However, I have OpenStep 4.1, and for all I can tell, this particular : bit of the manual was left out of the OpenStep 4 documentation altogether. : It can't find it in NextAnswers, either. : Can anyone help? Well, er, uh, have a look at NextAnswers No. 2648.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: Michael_Humphries-Dolnick.nospam@wdr.com (Michael Humphries-Dolnick) Subject: Re: dumb question about NeXt Message-ID: <1998Nov25.201620.28842@il.us.swissbank.com> Sender: root@il.us.swissbank.com (Operator) Organization: Swiss Bank Corporation CM&T Division References: <734q5h$pvd@q.seanet.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:16:20 GMT In article <734q5h$pvd@q.seanet.com> "DSCMT" <dscmt@seanet.com> writes: > I dont really know a whole lot about next, and I was wondering what is up > with it. Apple bought it- is it still being sold as next? I went to the next > eb page, and it took me to apple's os X page. Im taking that they bought it > ans are using it fo rthat- but im not sure. > > Could ya please clarify this all? > > Thanks, > > Justin > Oh boy. Well, let's see... there are plenty of people who will (I'm sure disagree) but... let's see if I can cover it. Around the time that NEXT Software released OPENSTEP 4.(something), Apple purchased Steve Job's interest in NEXT Software, and Apple took over pretty much. I think that at that point, Rhapsody (the next generation of NEXTSTEP / OPENSTEP) was planned, or maybe announced. But later, Apple decided to more-or-less scrap the classic NEXTSTEP / OPENSTEP GUI and redevelop Rhapsody with the MAC OS interface. Now, what would have been a high-end market segment of Rhapsody has been renamed "MAC OSX Server", which will (by all accounts) still include the Mach UNIX-Style underlying operating system. This will probably be geared toward high end users and developers and servers, taking on the M$ philosophy of "You don't really need a GUI for a server, but here's a big expensive bulky one anyway." Ooops, that was editorializing, wasn't it? :-) MAC OSX Server is slated for release sometime between NOW and WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER, depending on who you ask, but we'll probably start to hear more about it (IMHO) sometime in Feb '99. And, the question of Intel support (if you're interested in NEXTSTEP / OPENSTEP on Intel) is questionable -- theory is that the FIRST release will support Intel, but future releases will not. I hope I got that all right, and I hope I answered your question. -- Michael Humphries-Dolnick "My opinions, not my employer's"
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What do I need for my color station? Date: 26 Nov 1998 12:55:15 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <H5072.7626$DF6.248529@tor-nn1.netcom.ca> Message-ID: <19981126075515.10563.00001256@ng-ch1.aol.com> Be sure to look at Newton.app at www.ace.net William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: heller@altoetting-online.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GIMP_Xt on NeXT? Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:24:20 GMT Organization: Barb & Helmut Heller Sender: heller@heller.altoetting-online.de (Helmut Heller) Message-ID: <F31q0K.1v3@heller.altoetting-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick, my email to you bounced, so I try posting instead: You wrote: > >If there is any interest, I will make an Installer package for intel > NS3.3 > >(should also run on intel OS4.2). Just let me know (by email). > > Interest? You bet! :) Esp. if it runs on OS4.2 Intel. Please do, and do > upload to all sites. Hello Ric, I made a package and it is on the sites. Look at peanuts, the munich NeXT archive. It is ftp.peanuts.org and there amongst the X11 apps. Feel free to distribute it to the other sites (peak?) as well, my line is very slow and it is a BIG package (50MB!). Oh, and yes, it DOES run on OS4.2/intel! Bye, Helmut -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@altoetting-online.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
From: "Spiff" <sc843@bard.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT Cube Boot Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:10:43 -0500 Organization: Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson, New York 12504 Message-ID: <73k94n$8v8$1@equus.bard.edu> To Whoever Has the NExtAnswer: I just came into the possession of two NeXT Cubes and two NeXTStations (one NeXTStation Color and one NeXTStation Turbo) I have several questions as I have never used NeXTStations before: (1) One of the Cubes (I haven't tried the other yet) will boot but I'm not sure if it's booting properly. You see, it goes through recognition of two SCSI devices (Maxtor) and then sends me into a "shell" of sorts. This is what I see in a window: ------------ NeXT ROM Monitor 1.0 v41 NeXT Mach 3.3: Mon May 22 17:56:06 PDT 1995: root(rcbuilder):mk-171.12.obj-11/RC_m68k/RELEASE_M68K FPU version 0x0 physical memory = 16.00 megabytes available memory = 14.07 megabytes using 102 buyffers containing 0.79 megabytes of memory SCSI 53C98 Controller, Target 7, as sc0 at 0x2014000 MAXTOR XT-8380S Rev B3C as sd0 at sc0 target 0 lun 0 Disk Label: MPZ2 Disk Capacity 349MB, Device Block 1024 bytes MAXTOR XT-8380S Rev B3C as sd1 at sc0 target 1 lun 0 Disk Laabel: temp Disk Capacity 349MB, Device Block 1024 bytes Generic SCSI Device as sg0 at sc0 target 7 lun 7 Generic SCSI Device as sg1 at sc0 target 7 lun 7 Generic SCSI Device as sg2 at sc0 target 7 lun 7 Generic SCSI Device as sg3 at sc0 target 7 lun 7 odc0 at 0x2012000 od0 at odc0 slave 0 od1 at odc0 slave 1 en0 at 0x2006000 en0: Ethernet address 00:00:0f:00:2c:23 IP protocol enabled for interface en0, type "10MB Ethernet" dsp0 at 0x2000000 np0 at 0x200f000 sound0 at 0x200e000 root on sd0 ------------ There's a cursor below this, and the window is labeled NeXT Mack Operating System. However, I can't type anything. The characters don't appear! The only key that works is the power key. What do I do? (2) Suppose I want to try out one of the NeXTStations. I've tried booting them, but nothing happened except some clicking sounds and a beep. When I press the power key to turn the NeXTStation off, it shuts off and then starts up again. What do I do? Here's a list of what I have: (2) MegaPixel monitors, B/W (1) MegaPixel 17" monitor, color (2) Cubes, one with both drives used and the other with one drive empty (1) NeXTStation Color (1) NeXTStation Turbo (3) Keyboard / Mouse pairs (1) NeXT Laser Printer (1) Strange Cable -- at one end, there's a connector with 10 pins and 3 O-shaped connectors. The cable splits in two and at the opposite end there's one connector with just the O-shaped connectors, and one connector with 10 pins. (1) Regular cable which I'm using to connect one of my Cubes to a MegaPixel B/W monitor (4) Power cables Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
From: "Chauncey Smith" <Chaunceys@juno.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Optical Drive Date: 27 Nov 1998 23:35:52 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Message-ID: <01be1a5e$81ad0340$a498f4d0@hackmasteer-2k> References: <mcdougal-2111982109520001@oy.het.brandeis.edu> <73iggf$lv4$1@blackice.winternet.com> you wouldn't happen to know of a modern compatable opitical drive that the old next drives could be replaced with and still read the old format would you? Christian Jensen <cejensen@winternet.com> wrote in article <73iggf$lv4$1@blackice.winternet.com>... > You (brendan mcdougall <mcdougal@jensen.cc.brandeis.eduNOSPAM>) wrote > in newsgroup comp.sys.next.software, on Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:09:51 -0500: > > ummm, does anyone know the routine failure mechanism of these NeXT optical > > drives, how to repair them, whether anyone does repair them and the > > cost--order of magnitude estimate ok :) > > The disks are quite robust; if you can find a working drive, you should be able to read them. The _drives_, however, routinely die of dust contamination, particularly if used without a filter. > > Good luck finding one in your area. If you do, you may be surprised by how slow and noisy the drive is. At that point, think for a moment about how this drive was once bleeding edge technology, an idea way ahead of it's time, not so very long ago... > --Chris > > ************************** > Chris Jensen > cejensen@winternet.com > MIME, Sun, NeXTMail OK > > "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." > --Mark Twain >
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTWORLD Fall 1991 Article on WordPerfect Date: 27 Nov 1998 10:17:31 -0800 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <73mqbr$nmb@slip.net> Check it out at : http://www.slip.net/~emclean/next/wp.html Emmett
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Apple Enterprise promotional quicktime movies Date: 27 Nov 1998 12:03:37 -0800 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <73n0ip$st3@slip.net> Under construction but check out : http://www.leaveithere.com/wawa I'm interested in your experience since only a few of the movies play for me. emclean@slip.net Thanks, Emmett
From: cejensen@REMOVETHIS.winternet.com (Christian Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Optical Drive Date: 28 Nov 1998 04:04:39 GMT Organization: TJP Inc. Message-ID: <73nson$405$1@blackice.winternet.com> References: <mcdougal-2111982109520001@oy.het.brandeis.edu> <73iggf$lv4$1@blackice.winternet.com> <01be1a5e$81ad0340$a498f4d0@hackmasteer-2k> NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 1998 04:04:39 GMT You (Chauncey Smith <Chaunceys@juno.com>) wrote in newsgroup comp.sys.next.software, on 27 Nov 1998 23:35:52 GMT: > > you wouldn't happen to know of a modern compatable opitical drive that the > old next drives could be replaced with and still read the old format would > you? I don't think such a thing exists, or it would be widely used and known about in the NeXT community. I asked this question once quite a while ago and someone (I can almost but not quite remember who) said that a PLI (or was it Canon?) optical drive of similar vintage could use the NeXT media, but only if it was formatted on that drive. Original NeXT ODs and ODs formatted in a neXT drive are AFAIK only readable in a NeXT drive. :-( --Chris ************************** Chris Jensen cejensen@winternet.com MIME, Sun, NeXTMail OK "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." --Mark Twain
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Optical Drive Date: 28 Nov 1998 19:34:14 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <73pj7m$hhd$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <mcdougal-2111982109520001@oy.het.brandeis.edu> <73iggf$lv4$1@blackice.winternet.com> <01be1a5e$81ad0340$a498f4d0@hackmasteer-2k> <73nson$405$1@blackice.winternet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: cejensen@REMOVETHIS.winternet.com In <73nson$405$1@blackice.winternet.com> Christian Jensen wrote: > You (Chauncey Smith <Chaunceys@juno.com>) wrote > in newsgroup comp.sys.next.software, on 27 Nov 1998 23:35:52 GMT: > > > > you wouldn't happen to know of a modern compatable opitical drive that the > > old next drives could be replaced with and still read the old format would > > you? > > I don't think such a thing exists, or it would be widely used and known about in the NeXT community. > > I asked this question once quite a while ago and someone (I can almost but not quite remember who) said that a PLI (or was it Canon?) optical drive of similar vintage could use the NeXT media, but only if it was formatted on that drive. Original NeXT ODs and ODs formatted in a neXT drive are AFAIK only readable in a NeXT drive. :-( > Canon did make a version of the Optical for the rest of the world. I do not know what the interface was. This was top of the line technology in it's day 8-10 years ago, but it didn't take too long for the next step in the technology to be made which went to 128 (3.5"), and 600/650(5.25") with a different layout on the platter. This happened sometime in the 90-91 time frames. Once it did that was the end of the 256M proprietary media. I doubt you'll find a commercial vendor that sells a optical drive that is compatible with the NeXT Optical carts. And as I've said before if you have one that works get everything off of those platters you need and then remove the drive from your machine. I have one in a display 030 cube, but I rarely turn it on. As to saving the data. I've built 1.0, 2.0, 2.1 on a couple of the newer MO platters and they are bootable. I've long since sold most of my carts because I knew that the old NeXT MO drives wern't long for this world.. Heck even the newer MO technology is going by the wayside of CD-RW, and DVD (soon DVD-RW). I really hope DVD-RW is as robust as MO since I have found tape media to not be satisfactory for archival purposes. Randy Rencsok rencsok or spammers at ruin d0t the d0t internet d0t channelu d0t com http://www.channelu.com/Staff.html
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <24666911710829@digifix.com> Date: 29 Nov 1998 04:45:35 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <18755912315622@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. 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USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: gary@spiritwars.com.spam.spam.spam (Gary) Subject: Re: Test References: <72n5p6$o05$494@nslave1.tin.it> <stL32.531$y33.1085757@newshog.newsread.com> <bo5q27.n1v.ln@ns2.light-speed.net> <36520AC2.73B07C52@forsee.tcp.co.uk> Message-ID: <3660977a.0@ns2.light-speed.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:27:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:27:09 MDT Organization: ELI.NET Employee NewsReader Service In article <36520AC2.73B07C52@forsee.tcp.co.uk>, bobbyr@forsee.tcp.co.uk wrote: >My ISP has just given up on INN2; the news database would corrupt every >24 hours, so that the wrong bodies would appear the headers (XOVER?). I >think they run Solaris and NT. We found a problem with INN2 as well. It may be an OS issue, however, that Solaris 7 could fix. We couldn't get files over 2GB in size (e.g. cycle buffers for storing articles in) and were having serious headaches. We ended up switching to Highwind Software's Typhoon and have been quite pleased with its operations. We now have newsfeed customers complaining that we're buryint their bandwidth. Heh. For experimentals I've installed Dnews for Linux on a test box and found it works quite well also. You can specify the topmost db size you want and let it go. Right now I'm just using it with a pull feed but perhaps I should try the IHAVE feed and see if it can handle getting hammered by Typhoon. Heh. Wrong newsgroup for this, prolly... :) -Gary
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review Date: 29 Nov 1998 13:09:17 -0800 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> Hi, I've been getting a surprising amount of traffic (245 unique IPs) with my recent NeXTWorld posts. In fact, some one in Brazil was kind enough to encourage me to do a few more posts. So here is Lee Sherman's 1992 review of SimonSays. Emmett
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review Date: 30 Nov 1998 06:31:52 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> References: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> In-Reply-To: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> On 11/29/98, Emmett McLean wrote: >Hi, > >I've been getting a surprising amount of traffic >(245 unique IPs) with my recent NeXTWorld posts. >In fact, some one in Brazil was kind enough to >encourage me to do a few more posts. So here is >Lee Sherman's 1992 review of SimonSays. > Stepwise was lucky enough to get permission from NeXTWORLD to do this back some years ago.. they also supplied us the disks with the articles on them. They've been on Stepwise for years at http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Magazines/ Including some NeXT IN LINE issues. -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> Stepwise - OpenStep/Rhapsody Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
From: 00093182@bigred.unl.edu (Josh Hesse) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NX/SHosting Re: a Sphericalized MonsterCube with outdated and unshipping OSes ? Date: 30 Nov 1998 19:50:17 GMT Organization: University of No Learning Message-ID: <73ustp$qnt@crcnis3.unl.edu> References: <jOe72.31$wM1.46@wagner.videotron.net> <73kvvb$oh3@slip.net> <slrn75uilb.gk2.mark@ns1.oaai.com> <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-xxv0rse7tfjx@localhost> Marcelo Rodrigues (marcelor@acs.bu.edu) wrote: : On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:56:43, mark@ns1.oaai.com (Mark Onyschuk) wrote: : : > In article <73kvvb$oh3@slip.net>, Emmett McLean wrote: : > > My understanding, is that NXHost with NeXTStep and NSHost with OpenStep : > > are incompatible. Some one here correct me if I'm wrong. So : > > if you want to use OpenStep and run apps on the Pentium on the : > > black machine, you'll have to put OpenStep on your black machine. : > > I'd think you'd find that to be a tolerable set up. : > : > No. From an OpenStep (NSHost) box, you can view NXHosted (pre-OpenStep) : > clients. The converse is probably not true. : > : > Best regards, : > Mark : : That is a pleseant surprise as NXHost did not work 3.3 <-> 3.2 either : way. : If that is so I might finally upgrade to OpenStep on one end. Last spring I was sitting at a black NS3.3 machine running apps on a OS4.? intel(?) - Rex, what was math.unl.edu running on? ...and most of it worked just fine.(Except NeXTtime) -Josh -- Do not send mail to this account. Really. "Talk about silly conspiracy theories..." -Wayne Schlitt in unl.general This post (C)1998, Josh Hesse. Quoted material is (C) of the person quoted. |ess|erb|unl|u| (Oo) MYTHOS How's my posting? 1-800-DEV-NULL email: jh|e@h|ie.|.ed| /||\ NEW AEON .Sigfile freshness date: 6/30/98 "Ask Bill [Gates] why function code 6 (in QDOS and still in MS-DOS more than ten years later) ends in a dollar sign, no one in the world knows that but me" -Gary Kildall
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <3662ffc4.0@204.138.111.13> Control: cancel <3662ffc4.0@204.138.111.13> Date: 30 Nov 1998 21:06:14 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.3662ffc4.0@204.138.111.13> Sender: "SERIOUS COIN" <not@news.group> Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: me@daveyohill.earthlink.net (Davey O') Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review Date: 1 Dec 1998 00:03:39 GMT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> Cc: sanguish@digifix.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <73vbor$eel$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> > They've been on Stepwise for years at > > http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Magazines/ Is there any other cool stuff hidden those Stepwise vaults? Thanks alot Scott! Regards, David
From: satan@hell.home.com (Michael Lankton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> <73vttc$sqj$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: <rxL82.117$QB3.2677929@news.rdc1.ne.home.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 05:55:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:55:35 PDT Organization: @Home Network -> Way cool Scott! > > Do you think they would mind if I scanned/jpegged the magazines and dropped > them all on line? (Complete and intact) > > I had been considering hitting a friend who works at a printer shop this weekend > and trying to get them done in one shot. (Though it's a big job) But I don't want > to waste my time if I will just have to remove them later. I was thinking how nice it would be if someone made .pdf versions of all the issues. I would add them to all the other NeXT lit accessible on my site, as I'm sure others would. If anyone has the time and the means to do this, please let us know.
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review Date: 1 Dec 1998 05:13:16 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <73vttc$sqj$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: sanguish@digifix.com In <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> Scott Anguish wrote: > On 11/29/98, Emmett McLean wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I've been getting a surprising amount of traffic > >(245 unique IPs) with my recent NeXTWorld posts. > >In fact, some one in Brazil was kind enough to > >encourage me to do a few more posts. So here is > >Lee Sherman's 1992 review of SimonSays. > > > > Stepwise was lucky enough to get permission from NeXTWORLD to > do this back some years ago.. they also supplied us the disks with the > articles on them. > > They've been on Stepwise for years at > > http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Magazines/ > > Including some NeXT IN LINE issues. > Way cool Scott! Do you think they would mind if I scanned/jpegged the magazines and dropped them all on line? (Complete and intact) I had been considering hitting a friend who works at a printer shop this weekend and trying to get them done in one shot. (Though it's a big job) But I don't want to waste my time if I will just have to remove them later. Randy Rencsok rencsok or spammers at ruin d0t the d0t internet d0t channelu d0t com http://www.channelu.com/Staff.html
From: droege@informatik.uni-koblenz.Drop_This.de (Detlev Droege) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ATI Rage Video Driver Configuration Date: 1 Dec 1998 12:14:27 GMT Organization: University Koblenz / CC Distribution: world Message-ID: <740mj3$hha$1@newshost> References: <3659A0D4.75813776@asu.edu> In article <3659A0D4.75813776@asu.edu> Bryon Powers <b@asu.edu> writes: > I am currently running Openstep 4.2 on a Dell Optiplex G1 with an ATI > Rage Pro video (2 MB VRAM). Althought the OS installation went without > a problem, I have been unable to successfully configure the video driver > to provide anything other than the default VGA b/w setting. I upgraded > to the newest driver version available through NeXT answers (ATI Rage > 4.02 driver I believe) without success. Any suggestions on configuring > the driver would be greatly appreciated. (I can be contacted through > e-mail at b@asu.edu) Newest ATI Rage driver seems to bee version 4.03 (NeXTanswer #2528). If it doesn't work out of th box, look into /usr/adm/messages for a line like Nov 27 12:41:57 nimrod mach: Found PCI 2.1 device: ID=0x47421002/0x00801002 at Dev=0 Func=0 Bus=1 (Bus=1 is AGP, numbers ending in "1002" denote ATI devices). Put 0x47421002 (in this case) into the list of "Auto Detect IDs" in Default.table in /private/Devices/ATIRageDisplayDriver.config/ (and into the files PCI*Mb.table too for cards with more than 2Mb) using a text editor. Reconfigure the driver (remove an add it again). Reboot. Worked for me with a ATI Rage Pro 8MB AGP. Detlev -- Detlev Droege, Universitaet Koblenz, FB Informatik | Fon:+49 261 287-2769 Rheinau 1, D-56075 Koblenz, Germany | Fax:+49 261 287-2745 NeXT/MIME/Email: droege@informatik.uni-koblenz.Drop_This.de [Please drop the obvious part in my Email-address to reply.]
From: ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Info] i-staion (Made with NeXTstation case) Date: 1 Dec 1998 14:21:02 GMT Organization: ppaiNews (http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai) Message-ID: <740u0e$ss$2@news.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are some pictures of i-staion: http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~whilee/ppai/i-station-1.jpg http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~whilee/ppai/i-station-2.jpg http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~whilee/ppai/i-station-3.jpg Motherboard : Baby size Pentium motherboard(AT, ATX Support. Made in Korea) CPU : Pentium 120 VGA : Matrox Millineum 4M Sound : ESS1868 Sound Card Ethernet : NE2000 Compatible HDD : Segate 1.2G FDD : SAMSUNG FDD Power : 230W etc : PC Speaker, Serial, Printer, PS/2 Mouse, Keyboard port... For more infomation, Contact to My friend Kim Sung Han (capri91@nuri.net : NeXTmail OK) ppai ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTmail OK) http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/photography.html (The Web site contains 10,000 articles about NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, BeOS, Cyberfunk and Digital Entertainment.)
From: tom@hotmail.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Virtua Girl Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:34:57 GMT Organization: UUNet Message-ID: <3663fe8b.7934102@news.iway.fr> NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Dec 1998 14:36:28 GMT Check it on : http://www.virtuagirl.com Fullversion available
Message-ID: <36640DCB.204D5F4F@earthlink.net> From: Andrew Robertson <anjrober@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT sounds as .wav Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:39:56 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:37:32 EDT Organization: Fidelity Investments Does anyone have the NeXT "You have new mail" as a .WAV? Thanks.. --Andrew--
From: jookeye@aol.com (Jookeye) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Can I use a NeXT monitor with a Mac? Date: 2 Dec 1998 08:00:08 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19981202030008.22934.00000882@ng124.aol.com> If so, how? I have a PPC 9500. Thanks.
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Organization: Is a sign of weakness Distribution: world Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> Date: 1 Dec 98 07:50:32 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 01:59:47 PDT I recently upgraded my console machine from a PPro200 to a Celeron333. The performance improvement has been splendid, but there's one nagging problem which seems to have come along at the same time. Periodically, when I have the machine under very heavy load, it just goes off to meditate for a couple seconds. I've only seen this when I'm running more than four or five processes at a time. Say a rc5des process, a long compile, ProjectBuilder monitoring the compile, windowserver displaying things, and I try to launch OmniWeb to browse a web page in the meanwhile. Nothing ever goes _wrong_, if I wait four or five seconds everything seems to come back and on I go with my day. I've yet to see the same thing happen under low load (I _always_ am running two or three processes). It's not VM thrashing, as I've got the same amount of memory (128M) as the PPro did. At first I suspected that there might be a timing loop in OpenStep4.2/Mach which is maladjusted. Perhaps something happens too fast for the OS to track, so it times out before realizing everything is OK. Any hints in that direction? The other possibility is that the 128k L2 cache on the Celeron333 versus 256k on the PPro is at fault. Perhaps I'm seeing some side effect of NeXT's scheduling algorithms versus the smaller cache, so periodically it starts thrashing for a couple seconds. Is there any way to increase the thread-switching quantum, perhaps with a boot parameter? Of course, I _could_ re-upgrade to a real P-II with 512k of cache. But other than this one problem, I have no complaints, and if the problem doesn't trace to something like cache thrashing, such an upgrade wouldn't solve it in any case. Thanks, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Date: 2 Dec 1998 18:17:55 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: [ ... ] > I've only seen this when I'm running more than four or five processes > at a time. Say a rc5des process, a long compile, ProjectBuilder > monitoring the compile, windowserver displaying things, and I try to > launch OmniWeb to browse a web page in the meanwhile. Nothing ever > goes _wrong_, if I wait four or five seconds everything seems to come > back and on I go with my day. Hmm. Does the entire machine freeze? Remote connections? Networking (can you ping it during the "freeze")? I'm interested because I've got a Sun Ultra 10 (Solaris 2.6) server which is doing about the same thing. [ ... ] > At first I suspected that there might be a timing loop in > OpenStep4.2/Mach which is maladjusted. Perhaps something happens too > fast for the OS to track, so it times out before realizing everything > is OK. Any hints in that direction? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Kernels are interrupt-driven with continuations...you _don't_ sit and spin if you can possibly avoid it, because doing so is a great way to put the machine in a condition that it doesn't come back from. In particular, when you're in a non-reentrant condition (say you're adjusting the address space mappings [your page tables] and flushing the TLB to context-switch processes) and you have to disable interrupts, your code _must_ have no unsatisfyable requirements or else you panic or lock up. Anything that can fail, or be delayed for an unpredictable time (I/O to disk, terminal, network, serial ports is a primary example) _must_ be interrupt driven. Of course, some really sophicated CPU's, such as those implementing the SPARC v9 architecture, allow for a limited number of nested traps, but they've also got much more complex definitions of the types of traps (precise, deferred, disrupting, reset) and how the system handles these conditions. > The other possibility is that the 128k L2 cache on the Celeron333 > versus 256k on the PPro is at fault. Perhaps I'm seeing some side > effect of NeXT's scheduling algorithms versus the smaller cache, so > periodically it starts thrashing for a couple seconds. The two are unrelated, I think. The time required to flush the pipeline [and cache(s) if need be-- it's implementation dependent whether a given cache level is caching real, physical memory which does not need flushing or virtual memory, which would need to be flushed] is a lot in terms of processor cycles. This may make context switching require a significant percentage of CPU, but it shouldn't be observable in terms of seconds. Furthermore, it takes less time to flush a smaller cache than a larger one. If anything, you'd be getting _less_ overhead and less potential for thrashing with a smaller L2 cache. > Is there any way to increase the thread-switching quantum, perhaps with > a boot parameter? Hmm. Take a look at mach/host_info.h: struct host_sched_info { int min_timeout; /* minimum timeout in milliseconds */ int min_quantum; /* minimum quantum in milliseconds */ }; There's also quantum_set kernel function (?) observable by grepping thru /sdmach.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc From: "Raphael B. Leib" <raph@uchicago.edu> Subject: NeXTstation boot problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3665D057.805C1F58@uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: University of Chicago Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:42:15 GMT Hi! I'm new to NeXT, so please excuse my ignorance. I recently decided to revive a NeXT station (25MHz '040 processor, B/W display, not Turbo as far as I can tell... like I said, I'm new to this so I can't really give a better hardware description, but I assume NeXT only made one box that fits my description, so I hope y'all know which one I'm talking about) that a friend had left sitting in my closet last summer. I found a friend with a working color turbo NeXT station and after receiving his assurance that his OS would run on my machine despite their hardware differences, attached my HD (SEAGATE 1280N -- which according to their website doesn't appear to exist -- with a 240MB capacity) to his computer and used "builddisk" to create a bootable system. I then plopped the HD back into my box, plugged it in, fired 'er up, and
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc From: "Raphael B. Leib" <raph@uchicago.edu> Subject: NeXTstation boot problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3665D792.9BBD5E0A@uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: University of Chicago Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:13:06 GMT Oh, dear! I'm so sorry for that incomplete last message -- the cat went and sent it before it was finished (which isn't nearly so bad as it could have been; I once had to take away his cream priviledges for a whole week after he hacked into a mail server and went on a spamming spree). Anyway, here's the full text; I hope my breach of netiquette hasn't turned everyone against me: ---------- Hi! I'm new to NeXT, so please excuse my ignorance. I recently decided to revive a NeXT station (25MHz '040 processor, B/W display, not Turbo as far as I can tell... like I said, I'm new to this so I can't really give a better hardware description, but I assume NeXT only made one box that fits my description, so I hope y'all know which one I'm talking about) that a friend had left sitting in my closet last summer. I found a friend with a working color turbo NeXT station and after receiving his assurance that his OS would run on my machine despite their hardware differences, attached my HD (SEAGATE 1280N -- which according to their website doesn't appear to exist -- with a 240MB capacity) to his computer and used "builddisk" to create a bootable NeXTSTEP 3.2 system. I then plopped the HD back into my box, plugged it in, fired 'er up, and... Presto! It broke trying to load the kernel. I got the usual hardware recognition messages, which I won't repeat here because they don't really seem relevant and because I'm typing this from memory; suffice it to say it recognized NeXT Mach 3.2 and found all the hardware, including the floppy drive and hard drive, and had no trouble recognizing any of them. However, after the message "root on sd0" I get the following messages: >Load of /etc/mach_init failed, errno 2, trying /etc/init... >Load of /etc/init failed, errno 2 Then the box just hangs. The only place I can go from there is back to the ROM monitor, so I can't fsck the disk. The filesystem _should_ be okay, because as I said I just initialized and built the disk using builddisk, unless the media got damaged in transit to my machine, which I doubt. So I _believe_ the mach kernel is where it's supposed to be; the hardware just can't find it. I couldn't find a definition of error number 2 (errno 2) on the NeXTanswers site (enterprise.apple.com) or anywhere else. Does anyone know what this error is, or what could be wrong? Is this a hardware problem? Or is it possible my data just got corrupted? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Raphael B. Leib raph@uchicago.edu
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTstation boot problems Followup-To: comp.sys.next.hardware Organization: would be nice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3665D792.9BBD5E0A@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <Grl92.2528$Ay3.5664762@newshog.newsread.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 01:03:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 20:03:34 EDT NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE In <3665D792.9BBD5E0A@uchicago.edu> "Raphael B. Leib" wrote: > Oh, dear! > > I'm so sorry for that incomplete last message -- the cat went and sent > it before it was finished (which isn't nearly so bad as it could have > been; I once had to take away his cream priviledges for a whole week > after he hacked into a mail server and went on a spamming spree). > Anyway, here's the full text; I hope my breach of netiquette hasn't > turned everyone against me: No, but you should read http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Newsgroups/roadmap.html about which group (note the singular) to post to. I actually would have gone w/ csn.sysadmin over the others in this case. > However, after the message "root on sd0" I get the following messages: > >Load of /etc/mach_init failed, errno 2, trying /etc/init... > >Load of /etc/init failed, errno 2 [snip] > I couldn't find a definition of error number 2 (errno 2) on the > NeXTanswers site (enterprise.apple.com) or anywhere else. Does anyone > know what this error is, or what could be wrong? Is this a hardware > problem? Or is it possible my data just got corrupted? www.dejanews.com is a good source.. do a power search on comp.sys.next.* Anyway, the short answer is that you need to do a reinstall. The OS is hosed. errno 2 means that the file wasn't found IIRC It's a symptom of a greater problem (most likely) TjL -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: "David A. Johnson" <daj@nwu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTstation boot problems Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 21:41:31 -0500 Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <3665FA4F.2D1F9F61@nwu.edu> References: <3665D792.9BBD5E0A@uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I might be able to give you a hand. I'm in Chicago at Northwestern University. I have several old Black NeXT's and even more 'White' (Intel) NeXT's. drop me some email with a phone number and I'll see if we can link up. David Johnson, use this email: daj@nwu.edu "Raphael B. Leib" wrote: > Oh, dear! > > I'm so sorry for that incomplete last message -- the cat went and sent > it before it was finished (which isn't nearly so bad as it could have > been; I once had to take away his cream priviledges for a whole week > after he hacked into a mail server and went on a spamming spree). > Anyway, here's the full text; I hope my breach of netiquette hasn't > turned everyone against me: > ---------- > Hi! > > I'm new to NeXT, so please excuse my ignorance. > > I recently decided to revive a NeXT station (25MHz '040 processor, B/W > display, not Turbo as far as I can tell... like I said, I'm new to this > so I can't really give a better hardware description, but I assume NeXT > only made one box that fits my description, so I hope y'all know which > one I'm talking about) that a friend had left sitting in my closet last > summer. > > I found a friend with a working color turbo NeXT station and after > receiving his assurance that his OS would run on my machine despite > their hardware differences, attached my HD (SEAGATE 1280N -- which > according to their website doesn't appear to exist -- with a 240MB > capacity) to his computer and used "builddisk" to create a bootable > NeXTSTEP 3.2 > system. > > I then plopped the HD back into my box, plugged it in, fired 'er up, > and... > Presto! It broke trying to load the kernel. > I got the usual hardware recognition messages, which I won't repeat here > because they don't really seem relevant and because I'm typing this from > memory; suffice it to say it recognized NeXT Mach 3.2 and found all the > hardware, including the floppy drive and hard drive, and had no trouble > recognizing any of them. > > However, after the message "root on sd0" I get the following messages: > >Load of /etc/mach_init failed, errno 2, trying /etc/init... > >Load of /etc/init failed, errno 2 > > Then the box just hangs. The only place I can go from there is back to > the ROM monitor, so I can't fsck the disk. The filesystem _should_ be > okay, because as I said I just initialized and built the disk using > builddisk, unless the media got damaged in transit to my machine, which > I doubt. So I _believe_ the mach kernel is where it's supposed to be; > the hardware just can't find it. > > I couldn't find a definition of error number 2 (errno 2) on the > NeXTanswers site (enterprise.apple.com) or anywhere else. Does anyone > know what this error is, or what could be wrong? Is this a hardware > problem? Or is it possible my data just got corrupted? > > Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Raphael B. Leib > raph@uchicago.edu
From: jamesgyore@bigpond.com (T. James Gyore) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Changing page0 on IBM drive ? Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 07:29:42 GMT Message-ID: <36661ac7.835750@news.bigpond.com> Some time ago a msg was posted about changing something in page0 on an IBM SCSI HDD so that it could work with a nextstation. I've purchased an IBM 4.3 Gb SCSI HDD (DCAS04), the same model (I believe) as the person who posted the original msg. The software tool and notes about how to go about changing page0 don't appear at the ftp site indicated in the msg... But then it was a while ago now. Does anyone know where this software and the notes might be, or better still, could anyone offer any suggestion about making this change to page0 from DOS/WINDOWS before installing the drive in the nextstation? Thanks, James.
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Organization: Is a sign of weakness Distribution: world Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Dec2103753@slave.doubleu.com> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> In-reply-to: scott@nospam.doubleu.com's message of 1 Dec 98 07:50:32 Date: 2 Dec 98 10:37:53 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 01:59:48 PDT In article <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com>, scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) writes: It's not VM thrashing, as I've got the same amount of memory (128M) as the PPro did. Perhaps it _is_ VM thrashing. After posting this, I checked Workspace's Info Panel, and it reported 64M. The BIOS reported 128M. After some DIMM swapping, I found that either DIMM worked for 64M - and flipping the order of the DIMMs has OpenStep4.2 up to 128M, now. Go figure. Hasn't been in operation long enough for me to notice if this fixed things, though, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <Jex92.3535$Z72.1185245@tundra.ops.attcanada.net> ignore no reply Control: cancel <Jex92.3535$Z72.1185245@tundra.ops.attcanada.net> Message-ID: <cancel.Jex92.3535$Z72.1185245@tundra.ops.attcanada.net> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:31:53 +0000 Sender: kzerzn@addr.com From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled.
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review Date: 3 Dec 1998 21:42:07 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <7470jf$kf5$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> <73vttc$sqj$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <rxL82.117$QB3.2677929@news.rdc1.ne.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: satan@hell.home.com In <rxL82.117$QB3.2677929@news.rdc1.ne.home.com> Michael Lankton wrote: > -> Way cool Scott! > > > > Do you think they would mind if I scanned/jpegged the magazines and dropped > > them all on line? (Complete and intact) > > > > I had been considering hitting a friend who works at a printer shop this > weekend > > and trying to get them done in one shot. (Though it's a big job) But I > don't want > > to waste my time if I will just have to remove them later. > > I was thinking how nice it would be if someone made .pdf versions of all the > issues. I would add them to all the other NeXT lit accessible on my site, > as I'm sure others would. If anyone has the time and the means to do this, > please let us know. > What site? Randy Rencsok rencsok or spammers at ruin d0t the d0t internet d0t channelu d0t com http://www.channelu.com/Staff.html
From: satan@hell.home.com (Michael Lankton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Summer '92 NeXTWORLD SimonSays review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <73sd5t$r@slip.net> <73te4o$ilk$1@news.digifix.com> <73vttc$sqj$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <rxL82.117$QB3.2677929@news.rdc1.ne.home.com> <7470jf$kf5$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> Message-ID: <y3E92.171$QB3.4347668@news.rdc1.ne.home.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:14:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:14:54 PDT Organization: @Home Network In <7470jf$kf5$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com wrote: > In <rxL82.117$QB3.2677929@news.rdc1.ne.home.com> Michael Lankton wrote: -> > I was thinking how nice it would be if someone made .pdf versions of all the > > issues. I would add them to all the other NeXT lit accessible on my site, > > as I'm sure others would. If anyone has the time and the means to do this, > > please let us know. http://tasteslikechicken.ml.org is the home of my NeXT and Window Maker sites. Hopefully someone will keep monolith's free domain project alive (They just announced they are closing shop), or I will have to register a domain with internic.
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Dec3075328@slave.doubleu.com> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net> In-reply-to: "Charles W. Swiger"'s message of 2 Dec 1998 18:17:55 GMT Date: 3 Dec 98 07:53:28 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 01:59:46 PDT In article <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net>, "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> writes: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: [ ... ] > I've only seen this when I'm running more than four or five > processes at a time. Say a rc5des process, a long compile, > ProjectBuilder monitoring the compile, windowserver displaying > things, and I try to launch OmniWeb to browse a web page in the > meanwhile. Nothing ever goes _wrong_, if I wait four or five > seconds everything seems to come back and on I go with my day. Hmm. Does the entire machine freeze? Remote connections? Networking (can you ping it during the "freeze")? I'm interested because I've got a Sun Ultra 10 (Solaris 2.6) server which is doing about the same thing. Before I realized the memory mistake (see another followup), I did try to see at what level this was happening, the windowserver (the machine appears to freeze because I can't _do_ anything) or the kernel (the machine is frozen). When I'd get the pause, I'd quick switch to another machine with an rlogin into the frozen machine, and try to do something. What I found was that I could type a command, but the command didn't run until the machine seemed unfrozen again. It seemed like perhaps the tty driver was still paying attention, but processes were being frozen out or something (I didn't have so many processes running that the tables were full). Unfortunately (??) I found that memory wasn't configured as I expected before I spent enough time to figure out if this result was an artifact of something else, like typeahead at the rlogin level. [ ... ] > At first I suspected that there might be a timing loop in > OpenStep4.2/Mach which is maladjusted. Perhaps something happens > too fast for the OS to track, so it times out before realizing > everything is OK. Any hints in that direction? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Kernels are interrupt-driven with continuations...you _don't_ sit and spin if you can possibly avoid it, because doing so is a great way to put the machine in a condition that it doesn't come back from. Yeah, but what you gonna do? Mistakes are made, and this _is_ running on a fairly old kernel. And it could be a problem in the windowserver, or the sound driver, or something of the sort. > The other possibility is that the 128k L2 cache on the Celeron333 > versus 256k on the PPro is at fault. Perhaps I'm seeing some > side effect of NeXT's scheduling algorithms versus the smaller > cache, so periodically it starts thrashing for a couple seconds. The two are unrelated, I think. I agree, at this point. I think I was seeing the difference between 64M versus 128M of memory. Weird, though, because I had thought the 128M was a luxury, something I bought because it was a cheap way to _never_ have problems with swapping. Turns out that it's noticable. Furthermore, it takes less time to flush a smaller cache than a larger one. If anything, you'd be getting _less_ overhead and less potential for thrashing with a smaller L2 cache. I would expect that the time to completely flush the cache would be so swamped by the quantum between context switches that it wouldn't even be funny. But at the time I couldn't think of another rational. There's also quantum_set kernel function (?) observable by grepping thru /sdmach.... I'm not seeing it in my kernel, and the host_sched_info structure looks to be only useful for host_info() calls. Thanks, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Date: 4 Dec 1998 22:13:40 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <749mqk$hbp$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net> <SCOTT.98Dec3075328@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: [ ... ] > Hmm. Does the entire machine freeze? Remote connections? > Networking (can you ping it during the "freeze")? [ ... ] >What I found was that I could type a command, but the command didn't >run until the machine seemed unfrozen again. It seemed like perhaps >the tty driver was still paying attention, but processes were being >frozen out or something (I didn't have so many processes running that >the tables were full). Hmm. The fact that you were able to log in and get a prompt means that rlogin was able to verify the connection (look up a .rhosts file, ask for your password, whatever) and spawn a shell. That means most things were working, and suggests a pause more at the WindowServer layer. Processes trying to draw can't, and thus everything a user at console cares about is pausing. > That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Kernels are > interrupt-driven with continuations...you _don't_ sit and spin if > you can possibly avoid it, because doing so is a great way to put > the machine in a condition that it doesn't come back from. > >Yeah, but what you gonna do? Mistakes are made, and this _is_ running >on a fairly old kernel. And it could be a problem in the >windowserver, or the sound driver, or something of the sort. Right. [ ... ] > I agree, at this point. I think I was seeing the difference between > 64M versus 128M of memory. Weird, though, because I had thought the > 128M was a luxury, something I bought because it was a cheap way to > _never_ have problems with swapping. Turns out that it's noticable. For someone with your requirements, yes-- you keep your system busy. :-) But that is useful info.... > Furthermore, it takes less time to flush a smaller cache than a > larger one. If anything, you'd be getting _less_ overhead and less > potential for thrashing with a smaller L2 cache. > > I would expect that the time to completely flush the cache would be so > swamped by the quantum between context switches that it wouldn't even > be funny. But at the time I couldn't think of another rational. Actually, no. You do want to adjust your quantum so the overhead of context switching doesn't eat excessive amounts of CPU. However, the more context switches you do, the smoother the interactive feel of the system is, and the shorter the average delay runnable processes experience before getting CPU becomes. That helps pipelines, client-server drawing systems (like DPS or X), and distributed service systems (like Unix with all of its daemons that do things-- named, lookupd, syslogd, nfsd, inetd) run more smoothly. The quantum size is a very significant tuning factor.... -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Date: 5 Dec 1998 10:00:17 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Berlin, Deutschland Message-ID: <74b07h$ltj$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net> <SCOTT.98Dec3075328@slave.doubleu.com> <749mqk$hbp$1@news.spacelab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Dec 1998 10:00:17 GMT "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> writes: >scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: >[ ... ] >> Hmm. Does the entire machine freeze? Remote connections? >> Networking (can you ping it during the "freeze")? >[ ... ] >>What I found was that I could type a command, but the command didn't >>run until the machine seemed unfrozen again. It seemed like perhaps >>the tty driver was still paying attention, but processes were being >>frozen out or something (I didn't have so many processes running that >>the tables were full). >Hmm. The fact that you were able to log in and get a prompt means that >rlogin was able to verify the connection (look up a .rhosts file, ask for >your password, whatever) and spawn a shell. >That means most things were working, and suggests a pause more at the >WindowServer layer. Processes trying to draw can't, and thus everything a >user at console cares about is pausing. Coming to think of it, I've been experimenting with Interceptor a bit in my Squeak port, and exactly these types of pauses occur when the WindowServer tries to lock a region and the app holding onto that region isn't responding. Marcel -- Java and C++ make you think that the new ideas are like the old ones. Java is the most distressing thing to hit computing since MS-DOS. - Alan Kay -
From: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.98Dec5015952@slave.doubleu.com> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net> <SCOTT.98Dec3075328@slave.doubleu.com> <749mqk$hbp$1@news.spacelab.net> In-reply-to: "Charles W. Swiger"'s message of 4 Dec 1998 22:13:40 GMT Date: 5 Dec 98 01:59:52 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 03:03:42 PDT In article <749mqk$hbp$1@news.spacelab.net>, "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> writes: scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: [ ... ] > Hmm. Does the entire machine freeze? Remote connections? > Networking (can you ping it during the "freeze")? [ ... ] >What I found was that I could type a command, but the command >didn't run until the machine seemed unfrozen again. It seemed >like perhaps the tty driver was still paying attention, but >processes were being frozen out or something (I didn't have so >many processes running that the tables were full). Hmm. The fact that you were able to log in and get a prompt More information: I was _already_ logged in from the remote machine and sitting at a shell prompt. At that time I could type, but the command wouldn't run. One test I'll have to remember for the future would be to try command/filename completion, which might work because there's no fork/exec involved... Actually, no. You do want to adjust your quantum so the overhead of context switching doesn't eat excessive amounts of CPU. However, the more context switches you do, the smoother the interactive feel of the system is, and the shorter the average delay runnable processes experience before getting CPU becomes. <...> The quantum size is a very significant tuning factor.... Back in July, I set the rc5des daemon from distributed.net running on my machines (scott@doubleu.com hopes to break rank 10,000 yet this year :-). Ever since, I've ever-so-infrequently (perhaps once a day) noticed some sort of swapping behaviour I never noticed before installing it. Usually when I'm starting a compile or something. It's not quite the same as this other thing I'm seeing (it's a much shorter pause, more of a hiccup). The behaviour never seems to happen when I stop the rc5des daemon. It's somewhat amusing, sort of a "complicated systems have their own way of doing things" type of thing. I mean, we have an almost pure-CPU program, which should have a fairly stable VM footprint, running at nice +20 or something, and it still has a detectable impact... [I'm only suspecting it's through the VM system. I figure that the rc5des program probably gets working hard on some subset of a problem, while I'm compiling and browsing and newsreading, and thus parts of rc5des get swapped out. But since it's tenacious, it eventually gets to something else, and needs swapped in. Most interactive programs, meanwhile, would _stay_ swapped out until you double-click them...] Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (408) 739-8858 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Compleat Demystified Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: hms4be@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: How good the cube is??? Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 21:10:06 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <74c7fe$v4v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Hi I'm just wondering about the advantages of the cube over slab or intel running nextstep. In my opinion, the advantages of cube are 1) Unique design of case (only Look) 2) More slot (which can be just for adding ND board nowsday) 3) MO drive (for non-Turbo cube, which sometimes I think it's disadvantage) 4) Able to use Full Height harddrive In contrast, cube also has disadvantages too (compare to slab), such as, 1) Heavy+Bucky 2) MO drive problem 3) No floppy disk drive (non-turbo) 4) Lots of scratch and broken due to its magnesium case 5) More expensive (recent price from deepspace was 595 of turbo cube compared to 200 or turbo slab+RAM+HD in usenet) But why? Why cube is more expensive and more desirable than slab? My intention is not to start a thread, ok? just want to know your opinion about the cube. To me, without the cube's look and collectable thing, I see no advantage of cube over slab at all. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
From: jamesgyore@bigpond.com (T. James Gyore) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re-visiting ATI video cards... Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 03:58:45 GMT Message-ID: <3669f725.4681859@news.bigpond.com> Has anyone installed OS 4.2 on a newer Compaq Deskpro EN SFF series machine or used an ATI Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X video card with OS 4.2? I ask, because my NextStation is a little dysfunctional at the moment and my place of work has offered to loan me a Compaq EN SFF machine until I can get my NextStation into therapy. This particular model has an integrated 10/100 Intel ThunderLan network card and an ATI video card. The integrated network card is (or appears) not to be a problem with Intel i82558 chipset support in driver version 4.05. The integrated video card on the other hand is of concern. The Compaq has an ATI Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X video card integrated onto the motherboard. The ATI drivers described at NeXTanswers does not list this card specifically. Being somewhat of a voyeur, I've been "watching" discussions about ATI Rage video cards for some time. References have been made about and work-arounds offered for ATI Rage Pro AGP cards - Is this the same as an ATI Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X or is there a fudge to get it to work? I'd rather not disable the on-board video card and have to go and buy some other video card (for such a short period of useful life). Regards, James.
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <18755912315622@digifix.com> Date: 6 Dec 1998 04:46:10 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <15188912920426@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Periodic short hangs with Celeron, not with PPro. Date: 7 Dec 1998 15:54:22 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <74gtne$jpl$1@news.spacelab.net> References: <SCOTT.98Dec1075032@slave.doubleu.com> <74408j$r4f$1@news.spacelab.net> <SCOTT.98Dec3075328@slave.doubleu.com> <749mqk$hbp$1@news.spacelab.net> <SCOTT.98Dec5015952@slave.doubleu.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit scott@nospam.doubleu.com (Scott Hess) wrote: [ ... ] > Hmm. The fact that you were able to log in and get a prompt > >More information: I was _already_ logged in from the remote machine >and sitting at a shell prompt. At that time I could type, but the >command wouldn't run. One test I'll have to remember for the future >would be to try command/filename completion, which might work because >there's no fork/exec involved... Try a shell builtin (like echo or set, under most shells) first. Then try filename completion, since that'll test disk I/O. [ ... ] >It's somewhat amusing, sort of a "complicated systems have their own >way of doing things" type of thing. I mean, we have an almost >pure-CPU program, which should have a fairly stable VM footprint, >running at nice +20 or something, and it still has a detectable >impact... > >[I'm only suspecting it's through the VM system. I figure that the >rc5des program probably gets working hard on some subset of a problem, >while I'm compiling and browsing and newsreading, and thus parts of >rc5des get swapped out. But since it's tenacious, it eventually gets >to something else, and needs swapped in. Most interactive programs, >meanwhile, would _stay_ swapped out until you double-click them...] If nothing else is running for a while, then yes, this rc5des is going to page out a lot of memory used for inactive processes in favor of it's pages. Try limit/setrlimit() to control the resident size (RSS) of this process to something reasonable. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: Djani <d.burazerovic@stud.tue.nl> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help: (How) can I recover damaged sectors of a HD? Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 21:16:47 +0100 Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands Message-ID: <366D892E.BBE08854@stud.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Can one recover damaged sectors of a hard-disk by software means, and if so how? (It's a 486DX-2 66Mhz computer, having DOS+Windows 3.1 operating sys.) The damage occured as a result of a wrong conection of a CD-ROM drive, (Don't ask how it happened :-)) which probably caused power supply failure. 2. Can the damaged sectors affect the good working remainder of the hard-disk ? Many thanks in advance/Les agradezco de antemano Djani
From: Jo.Hagelberg@t-online.de (Jo Hagelberg) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Help: NS3.3 to OS4.2/NT port? Date: 9 Dec 1998 08:19:11 GMT Organization: Dipl.-Phys. Jo Hagelberg Systemtechnik Message-ID: <74lbpv$pgh$1@news00.btx.dtag.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello, I want to port a NextSTep 3.3 application to OpenStep NT 4.2? Do I need Mach 4.2 too? I didn't find any plain answer to this in the newsgroups. I just learned that there are some conversion scripts available, however, not on the OS/NT package. So the OS/Mach package (which I don't have yet) seems to be needed for the conversion. I'm not familiar with neither system, just have some OO experience and a colleague who has done the NS3.3 stuff. I'd appreciate any help you can give to me. best regards Jo Hagelberg
From: jamesgyore@bigpond.com (T. James Gyore) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Will an ATI Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X work with the ATI driver? Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:26:42 GMT Message-ID: <366f92c0.115710@news.bigpond.com> Compaq EN SFF machines have an ATI Rage Pro Turbo AGP 2X video card integrated onto the motherboard. The ATI drivers described at NeXT answers does not list this card specifically. Does this particular card (or the integrated variety) work with the ATI driver? I'dd rather use the integrated video card than have to go out and buy a card. Ragards, James.
From: Djani Burazerovic <d.burazerovic@stud.tue.nl> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Sorry, I know now that my question doesn't belong here Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:19:19 +0100 Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands Message-ID: <366FF486.ADC0DBAD@stud.tue.nl> References: <366D892E.BBE08854@stud.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Djani wrote: > 1. Can one recover damaged sectors of a hard-disk by software means, and > if so > how? (It's a 486DX-2 66Mhz computer, having DOS+Windows 3.1 > operating sys.) > > The damage occured as a result of a wrong conection of a CD-ROM > drive, > (Don't ask how it happened :-)) which probably caused power supply > failure. > > 2. Can the damaged sectors affect the good working remainder of the > hard-disk ? > > Many thanks in advance/Les agradezco de antemano > Djani
From: panaflex@fitzharris.com (Sean Weitzel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Help: (How) can I recover damaged sectors of a HD? Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:42:31 GMT Organization: Last Frontier Films, Ltd Message-ID: <36783f9f.13432877@news.slip.net> References: <366D892E.BBE08854@stud.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What kind of drive is it? IDE? I know of an older dos based utility called Spinrite that used to work wonders on MFM/RLL/ESDI disk drives.. the old version I have doesn't work with IDE discs though. I have heard of a program called Drive Wizard that will do just that on an IDE disc. Or see if Spinrite is still around and if there are new versions available that work with IDE discs. -sean p.s., spinrite was fantastic. It was a small ~200k assembly-coded EXE that fit comfortably on a 360k 5.25" floppy along with the boot files for MS-Dos 5.0 On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 21:16:47 +0100, Djani <d.burazerovic@stud.tue.nl> wrote: >1. Can one recover damaged sectors of a hard-disk by software means, and >if so > how? (It's a 486DX-2 66Mhz computer, having DOS+Windows 3.1 >operating sys.) > > The damage occured as a result of a wrong conection of a CD-ROM >drive, > (Don't ask how it happened :-)) which probably caused power supply >failure. > >2. Can the damaged sectors affect the good working remainder of the >hard-disk ? > >Many thanks in advance/Les agradezco de antemano >Djani > > - ME- http://fitzharris.com/~panaflex - check out my KOME tribute site - http://fitzharris.com/~KOME
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.net-computer.misc,comp.sys.newton.marketplace,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <yG1c2.1017$Vw4.83@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net> ignore no reply Control: cancel <yG1c2.1017$Vw4.83@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net> Message-ID: <cancel.yG1c2.1017$Vw4.83@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:02:36 +0000 Sender: streamgold@yaybtwbj.ca From: andrew@erlenstar.demon.co.uk Organization: Annihilator v0.3 Spam (EMP) cancelled - multiposted binary files BI=11972.326/15 SPAM ID=AeaMKZSLPQNO8hqeLm5PvQ==
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <12129803.2650@none444.yet> Control: cancel <12129803.2650@none444.yet> Date: 12 Dec 1998 09:26:47 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.12129803.2650@none444.yet> Sender: no.email.address.entered@none444.yet Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: billg@microsoft.com (MevDev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Come to my new NeXT Forever site Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:01:00 -0600 Organization: [poster's organization not specified] Message-ID: <billg-1212981101000001@dial-151.meltel.com> I set up a NeXT forever site for everyone to benefit from. Please visit it at: http://www.melrose.k12.mn.us/geek/index.html If you have additions, subtractions, articles, or anything of use please email me at : peecee@hempseed.com, or visit my site, there is a link at the bottom of the page. Thanks.
From: jm <marnet@asan.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: internet on DR2 Date: 12 Dec 1998 11:06:04 -0600 Organization: Newscene Public Access Usenet News Service (http://www.newscene.com/) Message-ID: <3672A2AE.5510FC60@asan.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:05:56 CDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all of comp.sys.next.misc Need info have a no name internal modem on DR2. intel base I need to connect to internet! Have considered DSL as an option but would prefer current setup Is There an Openstep/Nextstep work around that can be applied here? Any ideas Thanks in advance
From: wiley_coyote@super.genius.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NX/SHosting Re: a Sphericalized MonsterCube with outdated and unshipping OSes ? Date: 13 Dec 1998 03:36:57 GMT Distribution: world Message-ID: <74vcop$p8i$1@winter.news.rcn.net> References: <73ustp$qnt@crcnis3.unl.edu> <jOe72.31$wM1.46@wagner.videotron.net> <73kvvb$oh3@slip.net> <slrn75uilb.gk2.mark@ns1.oaai.com> <BcFqhjVUZSSN-pn2-xxv0rse7tfjx@localhost> NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 1998 03:36:57 GMT In NX/SHosting Re: a Sphericalized MonsterCube with outdated and unshipping OSes ? comp.sys.next.misc 00093182@bigred.unl.edu (Josh Hesse) writes, > Marcelo Rodrigues (marcelor@acs.bu.edu) wrote: > : On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 00:56:43, mark@ns1.oaai.com (Mark Onyschuk) wrote: > : > : > In article <73kvvb$oh3@slip.net>, Emmett McLean wrote: > : > > My understanding, is that NXHost with NeXTStep and NSHost with OpenStep > : > > are incompatible. Some one here correct me if I'm wrong. So > : > > if you want to use OpenStep and run apps on the Pentium on the > : > > black machine, you'll have to put OpenStep on your black machine. > : > > I'd think you'd find that to be a tolerable set up. > : > > : > No. From an OpenStep (NSHost) box, you can view NXHosted (pre-OpenStep) > : > clients. The converse is probably not true. > : > > : > Best regards, > : > Mark > : > : That is a pleseant surprise as NXHost did not work 3.3 <-> 3.2 either > : way. > : If that is so I might finally upgrade to OpenStep on one end. > > Last spring I was sitting at a black NS3.3 machine running apps on > a OS4.? intel(?) - Rex, what was math.unl.edu running on? > > ..and most of it worked just fine.(Except NeXTtime) > > -Josh NS3.3 -> OS4.2 works just fine for all applications OS4.2 -> NS3.3 Does not work for OPENSTEP applications, but will work for applications like Edit.app which are actually NS3.3 apps. I know that both of the above statements are true because I have a PC running OS4.2 and a NeXT Turbo Slab running NS3.3. I have tried to run applications I have written on the OS4.2 box NSHosted to the slab and it gives me the following message: From the slab under NS3.3: Dec 12 22:20:13 scientia pbs: pbs_server() failed error: 0 On the PC under OS4.2: Dec 12 22:29:55 SidPlay[648] AppKit Error: Can't connect to pbs. Maybe Public Window Server is not enabled on remote host? Also note: you can't NSHost 4.X apps to 3.X systems. That last bit is the important part. I made double sure that the Public Window Server setting was enabled in preferences prior to the test. SidPlay is an OS4.2 app I am working on. I also tried NSHosting Edit.app from the OS4.2 box to the NS3.3 machine and it worked, but Edit.app has not changed since NS3.3. Later, Wiley -- gcasamen@NOSPAM.erols.com (You know what to do) NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP Anything is better than Microsoft!! Live free or die!!!!!
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <15188912920426@digifix.com> Date: 13 Dec 1998 04:45:59 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <13296913525221@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Computer Tomography, Radon transform app Message-ID: <2+FRzyZDoL+G@cc.usu.edu> From: edx@cc.usu.edu Date: 9 Dec 98 15:34:06 MDT Distribution: world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems my post never made it off campus - so here we go again: I've submitted a quick and dirty utility to perform Radon Transforms and their inverses to the peak archive. A Radon transform is the the mathematical operation performed by Computer Tomography scanners. This application contains sample images of both a ct scan and its radon transform for your amusement. Source code is included for those who are interested, or would like to investigate further. You can see a doc file with a sample display here: http://cc.usu.edu/~edx/radondoc.html Howard Cole USU Research Foundation Space Dynamics Lab edx@cc.usu.edu
Message-ID: <36640DCB.204D5F4F@earthlink.net> From: Andrew Robertson <anjrober@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT sounds as .wav Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:39:56 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:37:32 EDT Organization: Fidelity Investments Does anyone have the NeXT "You have new mail" as a .WAV? Thanks.. --Andrew--
From: Pegasus <veasara@tin.it> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Progetto Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:00:50 +0100 Organization: TIN Message-ID: <36762542.8AAF8383@tin.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E31A5B1CA48BF98A6FD7E82B" --------------E31A5B1CA48BF98A6FD7E82B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PROGETTO! LEGGIMI CON ATTENZIONE SENZA SALTARE NEMMENO UNA PAROLA E… E’ sufficiente trovare 10 / 15 persone (ti spiegherò poi come) che abbiano una buona apertura mentale e l’intelligenza di comprendere un metodo matematico infallibile. Di primo acchito si potrebbe avere l’impressione di avventurarsi in un progetto impossibile. Io ti garantisco che lavorando poche ore al computer si raggiungono risultati inimmaginabili, io sono un’agente di commercio da vent’anni, negli ultimi mesi ho dedicato moltissimo tempo a questo progetto - all’inizio ero scettico ma i risultati mi hanno fatto cambiare opinione – oggi, comodamente seduto a casa mia, raggiungo risultati di reddito migliori di quelli che ottenevo lavorando 12-14 ore al giorno sempre in auto e alle prese con clienti che… In Internet ci sono ogni giorno migliaia di nuovi ingressi, migliaia di persone che come noi navigano alla ricerca di informazioni, contatti, amicizie e a volte ci sfiorano opportunità che non cogliamo perché presi dalle mille preoccupazioni e attività quotidiane. Questo progetto funziona benissimo per tutti ma più ancora a chi lavorando in ufficio ha modo di usare il computer e conosce molte persone anche al di fuori dell’azienda per cui lavora e il passaparola è la migliore pubblicità. Io lo faccio da casa. Avventurarti in questo progetto non ti costerà nulla e ti farà guadagnare moltissimo, con i primi risultati ti accorgerai che diventerà per te una “droga” e impegnerai sempre più tempo in modo piacevole e autonomo, non dovrai MAI rendere conto (se non a te stesso) del tuo operato a NESSUNO! Se questo mio messaggio ti ha incuriosito scrivimi e ti darò le necessarie istruzioni per iniziare il progetto. Nella richiesta di informazioni come oggetto metti PROGETTO veasara@tin.it Ciao a presto. PEGASUS -- Rimuovi XXX dall'indirizzo E-Mail Remove XXX from E-Mail address. --------------E31A5B1CA48BF98A6FD7E82B Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML> <B><FONT COLOR="#3333FF">PROGETTO!</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT COLOR="#3333FF">LEGGIMI CON ATTENZIONE SENZA SALTARE NEMMENO UNA PAROLA E…</FONT></B> <BR>E’ sufficiente trovare 10 / 15 persone (ti spiegherò poi come) che abbiano una buona apertura mentale e l’intelligenza di <BR>comprendere un metodo matematico infallibile. Di primo acchito si potrebbe avere l’impressione di avventurarsi in un progetto <BR>impossibile. Io ti garantisco che lavorando poche ore al computer si raggiungono risultati inimmaginabili, io sono un’agente di <BR>commercio da vent’anni, negli ultimi mesi ho dedicato moltissimo tempo a questo progetto - all’inizio ero scettico ma i risultati <BR>mi hanno fatto cambiare opinione – oggi, comodamente seduto a casa mia, raggiungo risultati di reddito migliori di quelli che <BR>ottenevo lavorando 12-14 ore al giorno sempre in auto e alle prese con clienti che… <BR>In Internet ci sono ogni giorno migliaia di nuovi ingressi, migliaia di persone che come noi navigano alla ricerca di informazioni, <BR>contatti, amicizie e a volte ci sfiorano opportunità che non cogliamo perché presi dalle mille preoccupazioni e attività quotidiane. <BR>Questo progetto funziona benissimo per tutti ma più ancora a chi lavorando in ufficio ha modo di usare il computer e conosce <BR>molte persone anche al di fuori dell’azienda per cui lavora e il passaparola è la migliore pubblicità. Io lo faccio da casa. <BR>Avventurarti in questo progetto non ti costerà nulla e ti farà guadagnare moltissimo, con i primi risultati ti accorgerai che <BR>diventerà per te una “droga” e impegnerai sempre più tempo in modo piacevole e autonomo, non dovrai MAI rendere conto (se <BR>non a te stesso) del tuo operato a NESSUNO! Se questo mio messaggio ti ha incuriosito scrivimi e ti darò le necessarie <BR>istruzioni per iniziare il progetto. <P>Nella richiesta di informazioni come oggetto metti PROGETTO <BR><A HREF="mailto:veasara@tin.it">veasara@tin.it</A> <P><I>Ciao a presto. PEGASUS</I> <P>-- <BR>Rimuovi XXX dall'indirizzo E-Mail <BR>Remove XXX from E-Mail address. <BR> </HTML> --------------E31A5B1CA48BF98A6FD7E82B--
From: spamcancel@wupper.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: cmsg cancel <36762542.8AAF8383@tin.it> Control: cancel <36762542.8AAF8383@tin.it> Date: 15 Dec 1998 11:17:44 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.36762542.8AAF8383@tin.it> Sender: Pegasus <veasara@tin.it> Excessive Multi-Posted spam article exceeding a BI of 20 cancelled by spamcancel@wupper.com. From was: Pegasus <veasara@tin.it> Subject was: Progetto NNTP-Posting-Host was: a-fi14-15.tin.it
From: franke@boehme.dbag.ulm.DaimlerBenz.COM (Juergen Franke) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: English Vocabulary Trainer on Next Date: 15 Dec 1998 15:41:10 GMT Organization: debis Systemhaus GmbH Message-ID: <755vum$d2k@news.sns-felb.debis.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any english vocabulary trainer on NextStep available on the net? I need it for my children. Thanks -- ======================================================= Jörgen Franke, DaimlerChrysler AG, Research Center Ulm, Institute of Information Technology, Department of Speech and Language Understanding, FT3/AV P.O. Box 23 60, 89013 Ulm, Germany Phone: +49 731 505 2355 Fax: +49 731 505 4113 Email: juergen.franke@daimlerchrysler.com =======================================================
From: "Michael Moore" <michaelm@erinet.com> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need Next equipment Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:40:41 -0500 Organization: Erinet Online Communications Message-ID: <759kdq$s9b$1@news.erinet.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 1998 00:48:58 GMT Iam looking for donations of unworking Next equipment for a "History of Computer Museum". We have had this "museum" in act for about 7 years now and have until recently been all CPM and Intel. We just added Apple/Mac and a Next slab. The slab works great so we are going to have it on display up and running. We would like to add a Cube, basically because of the interesting design. The cube does not need to be a working system, we can just have it on display. We are based in Dayton, Ohio but do travel to other shows in the Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana area. We are more than willing to pay shipping for any item donated. Stop by and see us at any of the computer shows in the Dayton, Cinci, or Columbus area including HAMVENTION. thanks michaelm@erinet.com
From: "K. SHIM" <shim@imaginet.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help: OPENSTEP mount for Toshiba select-bay CD-ROM Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 01:12:59 +0100 Organization: NeuroDyne Message-ID: <367AEF8B.5A7E968F@imaginet.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bonjour! I've OPENSTEP 4.1 Mach for Intel on my Toshiba 440CDX which has a "select bay CD-ROM player". It had been mounted perfectly during the installation but i could not find it or mount it after new startup. Some informations or any suggestion will be appreciated. Merci d'avance!!! P.S.: I've also some problems with Yamaha OPL3-SAx sound card (compatible with SB 16 Pro) and VideoDisplay Driver for Chip & Tech. 65554.
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <13296913525221@digifix.com> Date: 20 Dec 1998 04:45:18 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <6039914130021@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: lenny15@ix.netcom.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: WTB: NeXT Coffee Mug Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:04:32 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <367EC5F0.1B1D@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you have a NeXT coffee mug you will sell, please e-mail me with the price. Please do not post reply, e-mail me instaed. Thanks
From: "Jason Thacker" <jason@pct.theplanet.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Academic NeXTStep in UK Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:03:35 -0000 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Message-ID: <75og0j$ic8$1@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Dec 1998 16:05:39 GMT Is it possible to get the academic version of NeXTStep for Mach (Intel) in the UK? If so, could anyone give me an idea of prices and who to contact? Cheers, Jason
From: lenny15@ix.netcom.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: WTB: NeXT coffee mug Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:16:14 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Message-ID: <367E9E7E.6B07@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone has a NeXT coffee cup they will sell, please e-mail me with your price. Please do not post response. Thanks
From: david@onestep.co.uk (David Andrew Knight) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Academic NeXTStep in UK Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:55:58 GMT Message-ID: <914421358.3769.0.nnrp-10.c30b1c0b@news.demon.co.uk> References: <75og0j$ic8$1@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: jason@pct.theplanet.net In <75og0j$ic8$1@newsreader2.core.theplanet.net> "Jason Thacker" wrote: > Is it possible to get the academic version of NeXTStep for Mach (Intel) in > the UK? If so, could anyone give me an idea of prices and who to contact? The OPENSTEP 4.2 academic version (user+dev) is available for UK Pounds 185.00 + VAT. Contact details below. -- Regards David Knight | OneStep Solutions Plc | Solutions | | Workstations Innovative Solutions | UK phone: 01702 426400 | Servers For MacOS X, Windows NT | fax: 01702 426420 | Security OPENSTEP and Solaris | Int'l prefix: +44 1702 | Networks using Yellow Box and | | Maintenance WebObjects technologies | http://www.onestep.co.uk | Support
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <75t0it$ds5453@vaasa.vaasa.fi> Control: cancel <75t0it$ds5453@vaasa.vaasa.fi> Date: 24 Dec 1998 09:24:42 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.75t0it$ds5453@vaasa.vaasa.fi> Sender: billyo@jumbat.com Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: gericom@usa.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: The Interactive Dance Compilation you can play and Mix on your PC!! 8782 Date: 24 Dec 1998 12:19:53 GMT Organization: Centro Servizi Interbusiness Message-ID: <75tbh9$gjq$2184@fe2.cs.interbusiness.it> The Interactive Dance Compilation you can play and Mix on your PC!! The best dance hits of '90 and 98 together in Discoparade the first double compilation that you can play and Mix ! Discoparade is the one and only interactive compilation ! http://www.discoparade.com/ http://www.discoparade.com/ zyynvohmeyzwpbupehmmiwxrgssqlyqfkumsohmxtnjnojelfue
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <6039914130021@digifix.com> Date: 27 Dec 1998 04:45:38 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <14228914734832@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1994. Some of the many resources on the site include: original YellowBox and Rhapsody articles, mailing list information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to Rhapsody, OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep http://www.peak.org/rhapsody PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://enterprise.apple.com http://enterprise.apple.com/NeXTanswers Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's Rhapsody Developer Release Site http://gemma.apple.com/rhapsody/rhapdev/rhapsody.html These pages are focused on tools and resources you need to develop great Rhapsody software products.. Rhapsody Developer Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/rhapsody/rhapsody.html WebObjects Documentation http://gemma.apple.com/techinfo/techdocs/enterprise/enterprise.html OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: rcfa@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT sounds as .wav Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:37:53 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <767g11$2l9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36640DCB.204D5F4F@earthlink.net> In a related question: is there any snd/au to wav and wav to snd/au conversion software? I would expect that there is, with SUN using au format, but I can't find anything. Any hints? Ronald PS: Please reply to < rcfa @ cubiculum . com > (Remove the spaces which are here to prevent spam! Thanks!) -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
From: vlzomq@ggggg.ggg Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FREE THINGS! 2583 Date: 27 Dec 1998 23:46:21 GMT Organization: SIAST Message-ID: <766gsd$rk8681@www1.siast.sk.ca> Choose from 100's of FREE catalogs: Outdoor Collectibiles Automotive Business Children Entertainment Toys Games Pets Fashion Gifts Much Much More!!!!!! Come to http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/entertainmentcity/page10.html tpnnptdseyddginobtylfyni
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int%rauug.mil.wi.us@bofh.int> Newsgroups: news.software.nntp,alt.gothic,soc.culture.jewish,uk.test,soc.culture.israel,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <IE01dgNyXq9YtOt.0iyxNIurE3UHFu.Ha3uZSkU@digifix.com> Control: cancel <IE01dgNyXq9YtOt.0iyxNIurE3UHFu.Ha3uZSkU@digifix.com> Date: 28 Dec 1998 11:51:38 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.IE01dgNyXq9YtOt.0iyxNIurE3UHFu.Ha3uZSkU@digifix.com> Sender: mrsam@concentric.net My From: line has been fudged because many test newsgroup autoresponders respond to control messages. My apologies! Please see the X-Cancelled-By: line for my proper address. Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int%rauug.mil.wi.us@bofh.int> Newsgroups: news.software.nntp,alt.gothic,soc.culture.jewish,uk.test,soc.culture.israel,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <Kojgs1vg06v8N.QC2dj6tNc.SRZZWG8T6dp3@digifix.com> Control: cancel <Kojgs1vg06v8N.QC2dj6tNc.SRZZWG8T6dp3@digifix.com> Date: 28 Dec 1998 12:01:23 GMT Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Message-ID: <cancel.Kojgs1vg06v8N.QC2dj6tNc.SRZZWG8T6dp3@digifix.com> Sender: mrsam@concentric.net My From: line has been fudged because many test newsgroup autoresponders respond to control messages. My apologies! Please see the X-Cancelled-By: line for my proper address. Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. The "Current Usenet spam thresholds and guidelines" FAQ is available at http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin/faqs/spam.html Please include the X-CosmoTraq header of this message in any correspondence specific to this spam. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: rankin <rankin@indigo.ie> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Openstep on Pentium II Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:27:07 +0000 Organization: Indigo Message-ID: <3687953B.30789E4E@indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CC: comp.sys.next.hardware@indigo.ie I am about to upgrade to a 350MHz Pentium II machine. Iwant to know if Opestep will run OK on a PII machine (only Pentium and Pentium Pro are included on the HCL). Many thanks, Brendan Rankin. rankin@indigo.ie
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <chuck@codefab.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Openstep on Pentium II Date: 28 Dec 1998 16:30:23 GMT Organization: Spacelab.net Internet Access Message-ID: <768bmv$56r$2@news.spacelab.net> References: <3687953B.30789E4E@indigo.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit rankin <rankin@indigo.ie> wrote: > I am about to upgrade to a 350MHz Pentium II machine. Iwant to know if >Opestep will run OK on a PII machine (only Pentium and Pentium Pro are >included on the HCL). Works just fine. -Chuck Charles Swiger | chuck@codefab.com | Yeah, yeah-- disclaim away. ----------------+-------------------+---------------------------- You have come to the end of your journey. Survival is everything.
From: holger@_REMOVE_THIS_.wizards.de (Holger Hoffstaette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT sounds as .wav Date: 29 Dec 1998 00:10:41 GMT Organization: The secret circle of the NSRC Message-ID: <7696m1$24t@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> References: <36640DCB.204D5F4F@earthlink.net> <767g11$2l9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit rcfa@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In a related question: > > is there any snd/au to wav and wav to snd/au conversion software? > I would expect that there is, with SUN using au format, but I can't > find anything. All you need is here: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cbagwell/projects.html This is the latest version of the long neglected sox program; it compiles out of the box on Mach 4.2. Holger
From: luomat@peak.org.obvious.portion (TjL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT sounds as .wav Organization: would be nice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <36640DCB.204D5F4F@earthlink.net> <767g11$2l9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7696m1$24t@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> Message-ID: <7gWh2.1276$B46.2291956@newshog.newsread.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 01:29:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:29:39 EDT In <7696m1$24t@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> Holger Hoffstaette wrote: > rcfa@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > In a related question: > > > > is there any snd/au to wav and wav to snd/au conversion software? > > I would expect that there is, with SUN using au format, but I can't > > find anything. > > All you need is here: > http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cbagwell/projects.html > > This is the latest version of the long neglected sox program; > it compiles out of the box on Mach 4.2. Is there a version newer than this? ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/apps/soundapps/sox.12.12.NIHS.bs.tar.gz ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/apps/soundapps/sox.12.12.README TjL ps -- btw the original message was mis-posted to two separate groups (which shouldn't happen under comp.sys.next.misc anyway) and the poster could not even bother to crosspost correctly (nor even offer to check back for followups) -- Spam-altered address in effect, remove obvious portion if replying by email.
From: holger@_REMOVE_THIS_.wizards.de (Holger Hoffstaette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT sounds as .wav Date: 29 Dec 1998 02:46:40 GMT Organization: The secret circle of the NSRC Message-ID: <769fqg$3q7@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> References: <36640DCB.204D5F4F@earthlink.net> <767g11$2l9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <7696m1$24t@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> <7gWh2.1276$B46.2291956@newshog.newsread.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TjL wrote: > In <7696m1$24t@ragnarok.en.uunet.de> Holger Hoffstaette wrote: > > rcfa@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > > In a related question: > > > > > > is there any snd/au to wav and wav to snd/au conversion software? > > > I would expect that there is, with SUN using au format, but I can't > > > find anything. > > > > All you need is here: > > http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cbagwell/projects.html > > > > This is the latest version of the long neglected sox program; > > it compiles out of the box on Mach 4.2. > > Is there a version newer than this? > > ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/apps/soundapps/sox.12.12.NIHS.bs.tar.gz > ftp://next-ftp.peak.org/pub/next/apps/soundapps/sox.12.12.README holger>sox -V sox: Version 12.15 Has quite a few improvements, if I remember correctly. Holger
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.