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From: john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Atomic Clock Synchronization with NeXT? Date: 1 Jun 1997 01:34:51 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Message-ID: <5mqjjr$b5d@agate.berkeley.edu> Originator: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu Is there any 'telnet-able' or 'http-able' site that will synchronize my NeXT Turbo's computer clock... toll free? I'm tired of dialing 'popcorn.' :-) John
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <12797864532834@digifix.com> Date: 1 Jun 1997 03:57:29 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <26791865137630@digifix.com> Topics include: Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site eduSTEP WWW site NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site comp.sys.next newsgroups related newsgroups comp.sys.next newsgroups mailing list ftp sites NeXTanswers Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site =============================================== This online community resource includes - ISV company pages - ISV product descriptions - NEXTSTEP Developer Directory - NEXTSTEP Community WhitePages - Mailing List archives and information You can connect via the world wide web at: http://www.stepwise.com/ Suggestions or comments can be directed to me at sanguish@digifix.com If you would like to get your company and product information on Stepwise, please contact me at sanguish@digifix.com. eduSTEP WWW site ================ http://www.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/eduStep/ eduStep aims to provide up-to-date information on: - NextStep tools and projects for scientists. - Third-party products interesting for the educational and scientific community (with educational discounts noted, where they exist). - A listing of resellers and shops interested in working with customers in the educational community. - Conferences, meetings, workshops - Major projects, such as SciTools, EMBL's project to develop a NextStep scientific work environment - Status reports on GNUStep, a freely-available implementation of OpenStep now being developed NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site ============================ http://www.next.com comp.sys.next.* newsgroups ========================== news:comp.sys.next.advocacy This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. news:comp.sys.next.announce Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. news:comp.sys.next.bugs A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT- specific groups as well. news:comp.sys.next.hardware Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. news:comp.sys.next.marketplace NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. news:comp.sys.next.misc For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! news:comp.sys.next.programmer Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. news:comp.sys.next.software This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. news:comp.sys.next.sysadmin Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. Related Newsgroups ================== news:comp.soft-sys.nextstep Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. news:comp.lang.objective-c Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. news:comp.object Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com The ftp sites ============= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org - The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de: - (Peanuts) Located in Germany. ftp://ftp.dn.net/pub/next - Peanuts mirror in the US ftp://terra.stack.urc.tue.nl - (Dutch NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it - (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next - eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: - See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: leonvs@occam.com (Leon von Stauber) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Switching video modes without seeing what your're doing? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin Date: 1 Jun 1997 04:56:34 GMT Organization: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <5mqve2$klq$1@hackberry.zilker.net> References: <AFAAB237-1224C1@141.214.134.235> Cc: comrade@umich.edu NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN In <AFAAB237-1224C1@141.214.134.235> "Robert A. Decker" wrote: > > A few times now my monitor has blanked out at certain video modes. Is >there a way to switch resolution/etc. without seeing the desktop? What can >I do to switch without having to reinstall? Boot single-user, then go into /private/Drivers. (Now I'm doing this from memory, so I may be a little off.) Find the proper directory for your video driver, cd to it, and there should be a file called Instance0.table. Open the file up in an editor, and you can directly edit the display resolution and frequency. Exit out of single-user, and you should see it come up in the new resolution. ____________________________________________________________________ Leon von Stauber http://www.occam.com/leonvs/ Occam's Razor, Game Designer <leonvs@occam.com> PSW Technologies, System Administrator <leonvs@pswtech.com> MIDS, Web Developer <leonvs@mids.org> "We have not come to save you, but you will not die in vain!"
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From: mkrueger@pcmac.com (Mark Krueger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: can't get IP up on NeXTcube Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 23:55:54 GMT Organization: PCMAC Message-ID: <5mt21h$e5s$1@pornstorm.eit.com> References: <338FAB91.5155@pcmac.com> Thanks for all of the helpful responses! Here's an update on my IP issue: >Trying pinging these two: 127.0.0.1, localhost. I am able to sucessfully ping 127.0.0.1. I am also able to sucessfully ping my local address at 209.0.25.9 or by using the workstation name: "nextcube". I can NOT ping my gateway, however, or any other workstations on my LAN. My cube still seems to be an island. >If you can, then it might just be a routing problem. What does >netstat tell you? > # netstat -rn Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Interface 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 2 300 lo0 default 209.0.25.1 UG 0 0 en0 209.0.25 209.0.25.9 U 4 740 en0 >To fix this, drop to the ROM monitor at boot, type 'p' and you'll be >prompt first with where to boot, type in 'bsd'. And don't change... This fixed my "boot from network problem". Thanks!! >The NeXT hardware was built to automatically determine which network >cabling type is installed at power up. For this to work correctly you >should make sure the 10baseT terminator plug is removed and the 10base2 >connection is reliably connected. A power cycle and the thing should be >ok. I am actually using the 10baseT connection. Do I need to have some sort of terminator on the 10base2 coax connection if I'm not using it? Currently there is nothing attached to the coax connection. >And the complete sysadmin documentation is in >/NextLibrary/Bookshelves/SysAdmin.bshlf I apreciate the RTFM ;-) --point made-- I have been reading these documents steadily during this process. The procedure NeXT offers for connecting to a non-next network was what I used for my first attempt (configure Local after running HostManager, etc.). Based on some other advice I have modified my /etc/hosts file, and it now includes the following lines: 209.0.25.9 nextcube 209.0.25.6 dns1 127.0.0.1 localhost I also have added the following lines to my /etc/rc.local file: nameserver 209.0.25.6 domain pcmac.com domainname pcmac.com Thanks to everyone for the help! I am beginning to think I may have faulty hardware. Has anyone else experienced a bad 10baseT port on black hardware?
From: Timothy Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: can't get IP up on NeXTcube Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:36:50 -0700 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970601193448.29515A-100000@kira> References: <338FAB91.5155@pcmac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Mark Krueger <mkrueger@pcmac.com> In-Reply-To: <338FAB91.5155@pcmac.com> Silly Q: have you setup an /etc/resolv.conf with the IPs of the other machines (esp a DNS server)? It should look like this: domain yourdomain.ext nameserver 123.123.123.123 you can enter as many 'nameserver' lines you like... they hsould point to real IPs of machines setup to do DNS stuff... TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ "The best things in life are made into inferior versions and bundled with the latest Microsoft systems" NS/OS users: My 'other sites' page has been entirely reworked
From: Timothy Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: can't get IP up on NeXTcube Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:40:12 -0700 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970601193803.29515B-100000@kira> References: <338FAB91.5155@pcmac.com> <5mt21h$e5s$1@pornstorm.eit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Mark Krueger <mkrueger@pcmac.com> In-Reply-To: <5mt21h$e5s$1@pornstorm.eit.com> > Based on some other advice I have modified my /etc/hosts file, and it now > includes the following lines: > > 209.0.25.9 nextcube > 209.0.25.6 dns1 > 127.0.0.1 localhost This should also be set into NetInfo under 'hosts' (I believe) > I also have added the following lines to my /etc/rc.local file: > > nameserver 209.0.25.6 > domain pcmac.com > domainname pcmac.com Wrong file, should be /etc/resolv.conf, I'm pretty sure... TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ "The best things in life are made into inferior versions and bundled with the latest Microsoft systems" NS/OS users: My 'other sites' page has been entirely reworked
From: "N.T. Cheung" <cheungnt@ha.org.hk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Get rid of the common menu bar strip Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 12:18:27 +0800 Organization: Hong Kong Hospital Authority Message-ID: <33924993.6236@ha.org.hk> References: <337BE3F9.EC5@idt.net> <anon-ya02408000R1705970333540001@news.cyberspc.mb.ca> <5mi323$8sa$1@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Gregory Loren Hansen <glhansen@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> Gregory Loren Hansen wrote: > I see no functional different between the two options, except that you'll > have to find someplace else to put the menu items that aren't related to > your application, like the apple menu, the application menu, and the time. > I also have a MacSLIP menu and an OSA menu in my menu bar. Window menus are less efficient: 1) They waste space 2) It is harder to position the mouse over a menu floating in the middle of your monitor somewhere than to just bang the mouse up to the top of the monitor (and note that with Windows, there is *always* at least a title bar above the menu, so you never just shove your mouse up to the top to get to a menu, even when Maximized) 3) Multiple menus cause confusion, as you can inadvertantly click on a menu belonging to another window. -- N.T. Cheung << >> << Clinical Information Systems Hong Kong Hospital Authority >> << >>
From: izidor.jerebic@select-tech.si Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: test, ignore Date: 2 Jun 1997 07:33:28 GMT Organization: SELECT Technology Message-ID: <5mtt08$7n2$1@lazar.select-tech.si> test
From: gjvo@xs4all.nl Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Computer Modern fonts for NS Date: 2 Jun 1997 19:03:50 GMT Organization: XS4ALL, networking for the masses Message-ID: <5mv5em$ae9$1@news2.xs4all.nl> References: <slrn5osgdo.699.nielsen@bears.Stanford.EDU> nielsen@bears.Stanford.EDU (James Nielsen) wrote: >I'm also interested in making the fonts work with other NextStep >programs, though, like Openwrite.app. I *almost* got there (with the BaKoMa fonts); the only problem is that a <space> comes out as a funny dash, whereas an <alt><space> (hard space) comes out as a normal space. Anybody knows how to change this? -- Geert Jan van Oldenborgh work: oldenbor@knmi.nl else: gjvo@xs4all.nl web: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gjvo
From: MaRK_BeSSeY@NeXT.CoM (Mark Bessey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude to Rhapsody installation ?s Date: 2 Jun 1997 19:42:04 GMT Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Message-ID: <5mv7mc$vfe$1@news.apple.com> References: <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> Paul Furbacher writes > How do I install "Prelude" without disrupting my > current setup? (No, I will not re-install the Windows > side, just to make room for "Prelude". That would > take days.) I'm assuming you're asking about OPENSTEP for Mach, since you could install OPENSTEP for Windows on your existing Windows drive. You can't install OS/Mach on a DOS partition. If you have unpartitioned space on your hard drive, you create a UNIX file system partition in that space. Otherwise, you'll need to re-partition your drive to make room, which probably implies backing up and restoring your Windows files. There are some tools out there that will "shrink" an existing DOS partition to make room for another OS. Check out the Linux archives... Hope this helps, -Mark -- Mark Bessey Apple Computer, Inc. -->I DON'T SPEAK FOR APPLE<--
From: mmalcolm crawford <malcolm@plsys.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Get rid of the common menu bar strip Date: 2 Jun 1997 19:41:42 GMT Organization: P&L Systems Message-ID: <5mv7lm$qmp$1@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> References: <337BE3F9.EC5@idt.net> <anon-ya02408000R1705970333540001@news.cyberspc.mb.ca> <5mi323$8sa$1@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <33924993.6236@ha.org.hk> In-Reply-To: <33924993.6236@ha.org.hk> On 06/02/97, "N.T. Cheung" wrote: >Window menus are less efficient: > >1) They waste space > Maybe, maybe not -- for me vertical space is at a premium, so the MacOS strip across the top is worse than a block at the side which I can slide windows under anyway. YMMV. >2) It is harder to position the mouse over a menu floating in the middle >of your monitor somewhere than to just bang the mouse up to the top of >the monitor (and note that with Windows, there is *always* at least a >title bar above the menu, so you never just shove your mouse up to the >top to get to a menu, even when Maximized) > NEXTSTEP menus tend to be at the side of the screen so you get effectively infinitely wide cells. Lab-based experiments might (or might not! :-) prove that a menu bar across the top of the screen is more readily accessed than a bar at the side, however I can't say I've noticed any lack of efficiency, and even if there is one my preference in (1) makes it worth the trade-off. Again, YMMV. >3) Multiple menus cause confusion, as you can inadvertantly click on a >menu belonging to another window. > As far as NEXTSTEP goes this is wrong (the main reason for responding): menus belong to an application, and only the menu(s) belonging to the currently-active application are ever visible. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude to Rhapsody installation ?s Date: 2 Jun 1997 21:17:52 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5mvda0$jn2$1@news.digifix.com> References: <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> <5mv7mc$vfe$1@news.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <5mv7mc$vfe$1@news.apple.com> On 06/02/97, Mark Bessey wrote: >Paul Furbacher writes >> How do I install "Prelude" without disrupting my >> current setup? (No, I will not re-install the Windows >> side, just to make room for "Prelude". That would >> take days.) > >I'm assuming you're asking about OPENSTEP for Mach, since you >could install OPENSTEP for Windows on your existing Windows >drive. > >You can't install OS/Mach on a DOS partition. If you have >unpartitioned space on your hard drive, you create a UNIX file >system partition in that space. Otherwise, you'll need to >re-partition your drive to make room, which probably implies >backing up and restoring your Windows files. > >There are some tools out there that will "shrink" an existing DOS >partition to make room for another OS. Check out the Linux >archives... > Just to expand on this... If you'd rather trust an off-the-shelf solution to do this... PartitionMagic does this from Windows, and it is truely an amazing product.... For how simple a task it is, it works very well. -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
Date: 2 Jun 1997 21:38:37 GMT From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) Sender: steve edwards<custservice@tulsastage.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5mm1uv$l8o@news2.cais.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5mm1uv$l8o@news2.cais.com> Control: cancel <5mm1uv$l8o@news2.cais.com> OKLAHOMA spam cancelled by clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca Original Subject: oklahoma special effects Total spams this type to date: 31 Total this spam type for this user: 31 Total this spam type for this user today: 2 Originating site: cais.com Complaint addresses: noc@cais.com abuse@cais.com postmaster@webzone.net
From: me@ganesh.bitstream.net (My Account) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude to Rhapsody installation ?s Date: 1 Jun 1997 23:22:35 GMT Organization: Bitstream Underground Message-ID: <5mt07r$pp2$1@maryj.bitstream.net> References: <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> In-Reply-To: <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> On 05/30/97, Paul Furbacher wrote: >I want to install "Prelude", but I don't want >to sacrifice my existing Win 95 setup (with hundreds Consider creating a new partition using PartitionMagic. If your experience is anything like mine, you will lose no data in your Windows partition, and you'll create an empty partition which the installer disk will recognize. I used this method when I installed NS3.3 on my PC, and it worked wonderfully. [I only deviated from the manual inasmuch as I did not format the new partition: I didn't want to mess up my drive letters, and Win95 wouldn't be able to recognize the NS partition anyway. NS "sees" the Win95 partition as usual.] Chris Jensen cejensen@bitstream.net
From: pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Paul Furbacher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Prelude: system panic every time on boot-up Date: 2 Jun 1997 22:43:16 GMT Organization: Biological Sciences, Purdue Univ. Message-ID: <pf-0206971748380001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> Gee, I sure would love to begin using Prelude. But it won't let me, and I don't have the time to keep screwing around with repeated failures to mount. After a successful installation of OpenStep and the additional software (p. 39), it said "Remove the disk from the floppy disk drive and then press Return." Okay, we do. Up comes the "Starting OpenStep" panel with spinning beachball. We're having fun imagining the beach. Then the terminal window appears and finally tells us that we have a system panic: vfs_mountroot: cannot mount root If I type "rootdev=sd1a" (SCSI drive 1 is where the OpenStep partition is located) at the boot prompt, I get some "null pointer" messages after lots of startup gibberish: (null pointer): can't check file system. (null pointer): unexpected inconsitency; run fsck manually. Reboot failed ... help! ... My local UNIX expert says the file system is getting mounted "read-only", but can't figure out why. Does that bit of info help? So, what do I do now? I know what I want to do now: pitch the handouts from Apple into the garbage can. Utterly worthless. If someone can prove that the OpenStep disks will be of any value to me on this machine, I'd love to hear how. System setup: Gateway G6-200 (Pentium Pro) SCSI HDs: 0: has Windows 95 setup (2 + 2 GB) 1: has a single OpenStep partition (4 GB) SCSI CD: used to install OpenStep (and someday OS Developer?) IDE CD: on secondary IDE controller (not used for OpenStep stuff) RAM : 48 MB Adaptec SCSISelect(TM) Utility setup to boot from SCSI 1 (the drive with the OpenStep partition) Thanks for any help. Paul Furbacher -- Dr. Paul Furbacher Dept. of Biological Sciences Purdue University West Lafayette, IN 47907-1392 pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu
From: pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Paul Furbacher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude: system panic every time on boot-up Date: 2 Jun 1997 23:38:19 GMT Organization: Biological Sciences, Purdue Univ. Message-ID: <pf-0206971843410001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> References: <pf-0206971748380001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> A followup to my own message: We disconnected the Windows 95 SCSI drive, went through the whole install procedure again and got as far as the bottom of page 39 of "Installing and Configuring OpenStep". Upon restart, we got a panel which showed the progress in starting up OpenStep, but suddenly the screen went black, save for a blue rectangle in which white text pronounced: OUT OF SCAN RANGE Say what? It's dead as a doornail. This isn't progress. What gives with this crappy software? It shouldn't be this hard! We really want to jump onto the Rhapsody band wagon, but it doesn't have any wheels. Paul Furbacher -- Dr. Paul Furbacher Dept. of Biological Sciences Purdue University West Lafayette, IN 47907-1392 pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu
From: michael@hesta.com (Michael Verruto) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Network time polling sites? Date: 3 Jun 1997 14:47:09 GMT Organization: HPI Capital, LLC Message-ID: <5n1apd$2a1@corporate.hesta.com> We have a setting in our crontab.local file that is supposed to be polling and setting our network time... We have a full time link to the net, yet I noticed we had gotten off by almost 15 minutes, and lo and behold I *think* it may be set incorrectly; or the ans service is nop longer available. Here's what we have in the crontab entry: 0 * * * * root /usr/etc/ntp -s -f ns.ans.net. So I went in and simply executed the command itself to see what would happen. The result: corporate:1# /usr/etc/ntp -s -f ns.ans.net *Timeout* *Timeout* Host ns.ans.net is not responding corporate:2# Any suggestions? Are there other sites I should point to instead ? Thanks! -- "A measure of a man is what he will do for someone who can offer but nothing in return." -Unattributed. MIME & NeXTMAIL accepted Michael Styles Verruto - michael@hesta.com
From: pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu (Paul Furbacher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude: system panic every time on boot-up -- solved Date: 3 Jun 1997 05:20:14 GMT Organization: Biological Sciences, Purdue Univ. Message-ID: <pf-0306970025350001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> References: <pf-0206971748380001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> <pf-0206971843410001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> Another follow-up to my own messages: Re: system panic. We figured that it was the Windows HD which was getting in the way, so the brute solution was to unplug it. OpenStep made it through the bootup and simple configuration, only to produce the next problem. Re: Out of Scan Range. Several have written to say that I had essentially set the resolution/refresh-rate incorrectly, and that was why I was getting the video-card's error message: Out of Scan Range. I wish I had gotten that far to inflict such damage to my setup. But, the truth is, I picked the wrong driver, passing too quickly over the line, seeing only the "ViRGE" part, and mixing up this machine's card with another's right next to it. This whole process has taken so long that I find myself trying to make up for lost time. Haste makes waste (I know, Mike, it's a cliche). So, after following the good advice of Mike Hovan, Mark Bessey, and Andrew Abernathy, I rebooted with "config=Default". Finally, I set the video up as "S3 Generic, 256 color, etc." and now I have nice, living (in the sense that OpenStep is running) color. Several wrote something to the effect of "welcome to the world of PCs". I've been in that one since 1983, the Mac world since 1986, and believe it or not, nine years ago, for a brief moment, in the NeXT world. Well, whether the world of PCs is good or bad, Rhapsody on Intel is going to have to do one heck of a lot better at setting itself up than does OpenStep. It will have to be very good at dealing with *all* of the hardware available for Intel machines, or it won't fly. It's fine for NeXT to have provided just what the Bank of Boston, the Canadian Pacific Railroad and other top-paying clients wanted for turnkey systems, and high-priced systems maintenance services, but that ain't going to fly in the larger market. I wouldn't want to be on the Rhapsody for Intel team because it's going to be an undaunting task. But one that absolutely must be done before next summer. Thanks to everyone who responded privately and publicly. Now on to making Windows 95 and OpenStep co-exist. Paul Furbacher -- Dr. Paul Furbacher Dept. of Biological Sciences Purdue University West Lafayette, IN 47907-1392 pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu
From: gutier@unixg.ubc.ca (Gerald Gutierrez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude to Rhapsody installation ?s Date: 1 Jun 1997 05:12:16 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Message-ID: <5mr0bg$opq$2@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> <5mo9ud$1p12@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> : : How do I install "Prelude" without disrupting my : : current setup? (No, I will not re-install the Windows : : side, just to make room for "Prelude". That would : : take days.) For those who don't know, there is a utility called FIPS which will adjust DOS ( and Win95 non-FAT32 ) partition sizes without disrupting data currently in the partition. The utility is normally included as part of Linux distributions.
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:12:02 -0600 From: Tracla@aol.com Subject: NeXT People Question Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer Message-ID: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service To: Tracla@aol.com Hello - my name is Tracey.. I am working with AT&T in HR as a partner. We are looking for NeXT System Administrators.. But my question is, since this is a new software product for me is: Do people outside of NeXT software have these skills? Are there any dedicated websites where we can post job opportunities What are the salaries of people with this skill set? Thank you for any assistance you can provide Tracey Claybrooke 813-685-6004 Tampa, Florida -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
From: Timothy Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 05:55:30 -0700 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970604054956.11425A-100000@kira> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Tracla@aol.com In-Reply-To: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 Tracla@aol.com wrote: > Do people outside of NeXT software have these skills? yes > Are there any dedicated websites where we can post job opportunities no.... you should 'post' the job description to comp.sys.next.announce... to do that you should check dejanews for the format used, and then send them to 'next-announce@digifix.com' (you cannot post directly to csn.announce) > What are the salaries of people with this skill set? Again, dejanews is your friend.... depends on responsibilities and experience..... I've heard Wall St companies starting at $100/hr > Thank you for any assistance you can provide You could start by promising never to crosspost within comp.sys.next.* again.... that will prevent you from annoying people who might otherwise be willing to help you (like me on a different day...) TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ "The best things in life are made into inferior versions and bundled with the latest Microsoft systems" Bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html
From: Steven John Pannell <sjp@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: survey Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 14:19:21 +0100 Organization: Queen Mary And Westfield College, University of London Message-ID: <33956B59.3062@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am an MSc student at the University of London (sjp@dcs.qmw.ac.uk). I am conducting research in User Interface Design Tools. I would appreciate it if any designers out there would take 5-10 minutes to respond to the following survey concerning you use of User Interface Design Tools. 1. What is your background discipline [ ] Computer science [ ] Graphic design [ ] Art [ ] Human Factors Other: 2. How may years of experience do you have in designing user interfaces? 3. At the initial design stage what tools do you use? [ ] Pencil & paper [ ] Whiteboard & marker [ ] Drawing/Sketching software Other: 4. What would you say is the main disadvantage of your chosen design tool? 5. What would you say is the main advantage of your chosen design tool? 6. Do you use interface builders or prototyping tools (e.g. NeXT/Hypercard)? [ ] Yes [ ] No 7. If Yes what software packages do you use most often? 8. What would you say are the main disadvantages of these tools? 9. What would you say are the main advantages of these tools? 10. I am working on an electronic sketchpad that will allow designers to rapidly sketch an interactive user interface using a graphics tablet. What do you think are the main advantages and disadvantages of electronic sketching? Thank you for taking the time to respond to my survey. I would appreciate it if you could email your responses to sjp@dcs.qmw.ac.uk. If you have an questions, or would like further information feel free to contact me. ------------------------------------- Steven Pannell sjp@dcs.qmw.ac.uk http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~sjp
From: spockf@cs.tu-berlin.de (spockf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,de.comp.sys.next Subject: WriteNow conversion Date: 4 Jun 1997 14:49:14 GMT Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany Message-ID: <5n3v9a$8tj$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keywords: writenow conversion next Hi, I have stumbled over a .wn file and would like to convert it into something printable in a standard UNIX environment. I am not too much into NeXT , but after some time I figured out that it stands for WriteNow. I think it must be (or has been? sorry, no itention to offend anybody) a standard application on the NeXT. Does a converter for WriteNow files exist, or are there other ways to treat this problem? I have framemaker available on HP, so any format that it understands will do, but ps would largely suffice. Many thanx for any suggestions. Daniel Fischer
From: mcgredo@crl.crl.com (Donald R. McGregor) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: 4 Jun 1997 08:37:43 -0700 Organization: Miskatonic University Department of Classics Message-ID: <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> In article <865389689.23631@dejanews.com>, <Tracla@aol.com> wrote: >Hello - my name is Tracey.. I am working with AT&T in HR as a partner. >We are looking for NeXT System Administrators.. > >But my question is, since this is a new software product for >me is: > >Do people outside of NeXT software have these skills? Since NeXT is BSD Unix under the skin, anyone with a Unix background should be able to pick it up fairly quickly. There's some flashy NeXT sysadmin tools that make life easier, but anyone who's competent should be able to pick that up quickly enough. Rhapsody might have enough flashy sysadmin tools for a non- unix type to get by, but that remains to be seen. >What are the salaries of people with this skill set? Uh, $500,000/yr. Yeah, that's the ticket. :-) -- Don McGregor | I did it for the children. mcgredo@crl.com |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) Subject: changing the NeXT icon on the dock Message-ID: <leffert.865520500@cs.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:21:40 GMT I have a system that had a builddisk from a system that had replaced the NeXT icon on the Dock. I'd like to change this back. Anyone know how to do it? -j -- Jonathan B. Leffert <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> "But on the serious 3.5% tip, 'B' is the second letter of the English Alphabet. You work it out." -- Tone Def, "Fear of a Black Hat" finger -l leffert@cs.uchicago.edu for PGP Public Key
From: asdfdsajfl;aj@aljfaslkj.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Mailloop Upgrade Release Date: 5 Jun 1997 20:12:29 GMT Organization: Sprint Internet Passport Message-ID: <5n76jd$v@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Mailloop v3.0 is an industrial strength bulk mailer. Mailloop v3.0 is a bulk mailing program for the internet. It can take a single message and broadcast it to either a listing of e-mail addresses or to a listing of newsgroups. Creates custom newsgroup lists by filtering NNTP servers. Creates custom e-mail lists by extracting them from newsgroups. Can also extract e-mail addresses or newsgroup names from other protocols. Built-in NNTP, SMTP, POP, FTP, HTTP, EXEC, CGI, WHOIS and FINGER clients. Anti-cancelbot feature. Automatically processes remove requests. Includes extensive on-line help. The most powerful bulk mailer available. Requires Windows 95 or NT 3.51+ and internet access. The "Program" Mailloop is only available in English. For more info goto: http://205.199.4.219 http://205.199.4.219 Using it is easy: 1) Create a message ( http://205.199.4.219/editor.htm ) ...by using the pull down menus or ...by using any editor 2) Create a newsgroups list ( http://205.199.4.219/news3.htm ) ...by filtering an NNTP server or ...by importing from any text file or ...by manually creating with any editor or ...by extracting from any FTP file or ...by extracting from any HTTP file 3) Create an e-mail list ( http://205.199.4.219/em3.htm ) ...by extracting from newsgroups or ...by importing from any text file or ...by manually creating with any editor or ...by extracting from a WHOIS response or ...by extracting from a fingering response or ...by extracting from a UNIX response or ...by extracting from any FTP file or ...by extracting from any HTTP file or 4) Broadcast the message ...to the e-mail list or ( http://205.199.4.219/embc.htm ) ...to the newsgroup list ( http://205.199.4.219/ngbc.htm ) 5) Then process the remove requests ...by using the mailbox processor ( http://205.199.4.219/pop.htm ) 6) If you want you can use the Newsletter Sever ...The Newsletter Sever will allow you to have an topic-specific newsletter that other can subscribe and unsubscribe to. ...Customizing this server response files ( http://205.199.4.219/response.htm ) ...Creating a new newsletter ( http://205.199.4.219/create.htm ) ...Creating and Updating a newsletter the actual newsletter ( http://205.199.4.219/update.htm ) For more info visit http://205.199.4.219 http://205.199.4.219
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) Subject: resolv.conf? Message-ID: <leffert.865541108@cs.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:05:08 GMT The line search host1.net host2.net does not seem to work in /etc/resolv.conf. I'd like to modify the dns search path. is this possible? -j -- Jonathan B. Leffert <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> "But on the serious 3.5% tip, 'B' is the second letter of the English Alphabet. You work it out." -- Tone Def, "Fear of a Black Hat" finger -l leffert@cs.uchicago.edu for PGP Public Key
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us (Robert Braver) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5n76jd$v@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Date: 5 Jun 1997 21:19:03 GMT Control: cancel <5n76jd$v@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5n76jd$v@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Sender: asdfdsajfl;aj@aljfaslkj.com Spam cancelled. Autocancel spam type: MAILLOOP Original Subject: Mailloop Upgrade Release Is this cancel message showing up on an email list? If so, please see: http://spam.ohww.norman.ok.us/news_gateway.html
From: liuyi@dragon-dance.com (Yi Liu) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: resolv.conf? Date: 5 Jun 1997 22:22:06 GMT Organization: INTERNET AMERICA Message-ID: <1133064AB45072B4.11A6E0D181C2A95E.08E3F0808D121E69@library-proxy.airnews.net> References: <leffert.865541108@cs.uchicago.edu> NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library.airnews.net On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:05:08 GMT, Jonathan B. Leffert <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> wrote: > The line > search host1.net host2.net > > does not seem to work in /etc/resolv.conf. I'd like to modify the dns > search path. is this possible? I believe 'search' is not supported with the 'named' shipped with NS3.x. You'll have to install bind-4.9.5 package that's on peak courtesy of Gerben_Wierda@rna.nl. Look for it in peak:/pub/next/apps/internet/misc liuyi -- Realife: Liu, Yi <liuyi@dragon-dance.com> {NeXTMail|MIME|ASCII}
From: Patrick Gallagher <gallagher@uh.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude to Rhapsody installation ?s Date: 6 Jun 1997 01:03:50 GMT Organization: University of Houston Message-ID: <5n7nlm$1dv@news.blkbox.com> References: <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu In <pf-3005971051480001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> Paul Furbacher wrote: > How do I install "Prelude" without disrupting my > current setup? (No, I will not re-install the Windows > side, just to make room for "Prelude". That would > take days.) A couple of options come to mind, but they both involve a common step--changing the partitioning scheme on your current disk (assuming you've already used all of its capacity in your current partitioning scheme). There is a product called Partition Magic which does wonderful things with MS OS partitions. Relevant here, you can change the size of your current partition to free up some room for OPENSTEP without having to reinstall everything. If you free up enough, you can just put OPENSTEP in the free space. Otherwise, you can begin the OPENSTEP boot process on the first disk and continue it on the second. There is a NeXTanswer about that at http://www.next.com PG -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Gallagher <Patrick@BifrostWorks.com> (NeXTmail and MIME welcome) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There is more to life than increasing its speed." -Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (1869-1948) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bozack@zobak.org (Daft.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Boot manager vanishing act Date: 6 Jun 1997 01:15:18 GMT Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 Message-ID: <5n7ob6$1ha@news.blkbox.com> NNTP-Posting-User: bozack I've just installed OPENSTEP 4.1 for Mach on my Intel machine and it seems to be working great except for one problem: I inadvertantly killed the boot manager that comes with OPENSTEP. If I install the OS/2 Boot Manager, the partition number OPENSTEP is sitting on would change and I suspect it wouldn't like to boot anymore. Is there any way to get that boot manager back in my arms again? Thanks, Dan bozack@blkbox.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer From: edew@netcom.com (Eric Dew) Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Message-ID: <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> Sender: edew@netcom2.netcom.com Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:22:37 GMT In article <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> mcgredo@nospam.crl.com writes: >In article <865389689.23631@dejanews.com>, <Tracla@aol.com> wrote: >>Hello - my name is Tracey.. I am working with AT&T in HR as a partner. >>We are looking for NeXT System Administrators.. >> >>But my question is, since this is a new software product for >>me is: >> >>Do people outside of NeXT software have these skills? > >Since NeXT is BSD Unix under the skin, anyone with a Unix >background should be able to pick it up fairly quickly. There's >some flashy NeXT sysadmin tools that make life easier, but >anyone who's competent should be able to pick that up quickly >enough. > And NeXTs are easier to administer than PCs (running NT, for example) or Macs or Solarises or HP-UXes. You can get two NeXT sys admins to manage up to 200 machines with little problems. >Rhapsody might have enough flashy sysadmin tools for a non- >unix type to get by, but that remains to be seen. > >>What are the salaries of people with this skill set? > >Uh, $500,000/yr. Yeah, that's the ticket. :-) > It depends on the region. In the Silicon Valley, $500K is a little on the low side :-) EDEW
From: com@com.com (com@com.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 05:15:26 GMT Organization: com@com.com Message-ID: <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 02:22:37 GMT, edew@netcom.com (Eric Dew) wrote: >>>What are the salaries of people with this skill set? >> >>Uh, $500,000/yr. Yeah, that's the ticket. :-) >> >It depends on the region. In the Silicon Valley, $500K is a little on the >low side :-) Eric, I would be curious (and other lurkers) to know what a NextStep programmer makes? In particular, those many & several programmers I see that post here. The ones that do work "off location" (i.e. their home or office) (vs. i.e. working for a traditional "company").
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: 6 Jun 1997 06:01:18 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5n893e$obh$3@news.xmission.com> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> com@com.com (com@com.com) wrote: > Eric, I would be curious (and other lurkers) to know what a NextStep > programmer makes? In particular, those many & several programmers > I see that post here. The ones that do work "off location" (i.e. their > home or office) (vs. i.e. working for a traditional "company"). Well, to inject some tiny hint of reality into this, the consultants charge what they can get, and that will vary greatly from one project to the next for most of them. If they are popular and well known, like Omni, they can get $250/hour on some contracts. If they don't have those sorts of credentials, they may be as cheap as, say a student who scrapes out code by night and goes for $15/hour. And there's a whole spectrum in between. So you could say that the NeXT developers are making something between $30k to $500k per year...though I _strongly_ suspect that most are nearer to the 60-100k range (depending upon skill) than either extreme. This is somewhat conjecture, somewhat based on what I know of others in the same field, but should be pretty close to the truth. I won't tell you what I make or charge, though, in any terms more precise than the above. :-) -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: tbutler@tfs.net (Travis Butler) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Get rid of the common menu bar strip Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 00:11:00 -0500 Organization: The Wandering Powerbook... Message-ID: <AFBD0614966817DDFB@node28.tfs.net> References: <337BE3F9.EC5@idt.net> <bates_andy-1905971019140001@news.tandem.com> <5lt4vu$bhg@cgl.ucsf.edu> <5lv343$q3l$1@swlab1.msd.ray.com> <5m0gcq$hd7@sps1.phys.vt.edu> In article <5m0gcq$hd7@sps1.phys.vt.edu>, nurban@sps1.phys.vt.edu (Nathan Urban) wrote: >In article <5lv343$q3l$1@swlab1.msd.ray.com>, rfl@swl.msd.ray.com wrote: > >> BUT pop-ups are _invisible_. The desktop menu provides the same function, >> with a visual cue. Sure a pop-up saves wear-&-tear on the wrist, but if you >> don't know what's there, you'll get less use from those functions. > >> I speak from experience, with Interleaf 5, a Unix document processing app, >> whose entire interface is in contextual pop-ups, and there are a zillion >> contexts for the same piece of a document. You never know what'll come up. >> And the pop-ups can get mighty deep, with layer after layer after layer. > >Let me point out that NEXTSTEP pop-ups are different. They're _not_ >contextual; no matter where you are, it gives you the global menu for >the app, the analog to the Mac menubar. And it's always available so >you can always count on it to be there. > >But for novice users at least, I agree that there should always be >something visible. I prefer NEXTSTEP's floating menu; and advanced >users can move it out of the way and only use the pop-ups. Another point to remember: Unless you stay in the same program (and even in the same *version*) for all of your computing life, you are *guaranteed* to be a novice user many times... every time you pick up a new program, or a significant revision of an old one. Travis Butler (The Professor, formerly of Myth and Magick!, Lawrence, KS; tbutler@tfs.net, now from the Wandering Powerbook; <http://www.tfs.net/personal/tbutler/>; Mac page <http://www.tfs.net/business/tbutler/>) ...Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:31:19 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <Mna2p7O00UhBA1mvM2@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 6-Jun-97 Re: NeXT People Question by com@com.com@com.com > Eric, I would be curious (and other lurkers) to know what a NextStep > programmer makes? In particular, those many & several programmers > I see that post here. The ones that do work "off location" (i.e. their > home or office) (vs. i.e. working for a traditional "company"). It depends on whether you choose to be a salaried employee or whether you want to play the consulting game. Consultants can make anywhere up to $250 an hour, but somewhere in the region of $125-$150 is going to be a lot more typical. Of course, a consultant has to find new work on a regular basis, and they can end up not working for a while if the market slows down. The low-end for salaried employees is about $30,000 - $35,000, and really good NEXTSTEP programmers can see over $100K, with $50K being a reasonable guestimate for the average salary for an experienced programmer. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: liuyi@dragon-dance.com (Yi Liu) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: resolv.conf? Date: 6 Jun 1997 15:36:13 GMT Organization: INTERNET AMERICA Message-ID: <C2E1B0D87C7451D0.E09BCC473EBB15DD.9910040A9010471B@library-proxy.airnews.net> References: <1133064AB45072B4.11A6E0D181C2A95E.08E3F0808D121E69@library-proxy.airnews.net> <5n91hr$11k@crcnis3.unl.edu> NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library.airnews.net On 6 Jun 1997 12:58:35 GMT, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote: > In article > <1133064AB45072B4.11A6E0D181C2A95E.08E3F0808D121E69@library-proxy.airnews.n > et> liuyi@dragon-dance.com (Yi Liu) writes: > > [...] > Lastly, simply upgrading named will NOT help. named is not the problem, > it's NeXT's resolver routines built-in to the C system libraries. You're right, and I was definitely wrong about the source of his problem. Sorry, liuyi -- Realife: Liu, Yi <liuyi@dragon-dance.com> {NeXTMail|MIME|ASCII}
From: ScotV@Novell.COM Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: resolv.conf? References: <leffert.865541108@cs.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <339733c5.0@gronk.provo.novell.com> Date: 5 Jun 97 21:46:45 GMT In article <leffert.865541108@cs.uchicago.edu> leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) writes: > The line > search host1.net host2.net > > does not seem to work in /etc/resolv.conf. I'd like to modify the dns > search path. is this possible? > > -j > -- > Jonathan B. Leffert <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> > "But on the serious 3.5% tip, 'B' is the second letter of the English > Alphabet. You work it out." -- Tone Def, "Fear of a Black Hat" > finger -l leffert@cs.uchicago.edu for PGP Public Key Here's how I have my resolv.conf setup. It seems to be working fine. domain xxx.novell.com nameserver 9.9.9.9 nameserver 9.9.9.9 nameserver 9.9.9.9 Of course, you need to specify your own domain and dns ip addresses. Scot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.java.setup From: Fabien_Roy@no.spam.free.fdn.fr Subject: Re: Problems w/ Kaffe 0.9 [next-m68k] (undef'd syms _java_util_zip_*) Message-ID: <EBDJ8p.1uq@free.fdn.fr> Sender: news@free.fdn.fr Organization: Fabien Roy Consultant. References: <5m2ms1$t35$1@morgoth.sfu.ca> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:48:24 GMT try -all_load option of cc excerpt from ReleaseNotes/CompilerTools.rtf * The new -all_load flag provides a way to link in all the members of the specified libraries. When this flag is present all library members for the specified libraries are always loaded from the library. This solves problems with respect to the use of rld(3), objc_loadModules(3) and NXBundles where the application wants to make available all of the library routines to the code it dynamically loads. This provides a more general solution that which is provided with the "-u libsys_s" like flags with respect to the NeXT supplied shared libraries. This solution works for all types of libraries including those not supplied by NeXT. -- Fabien Roy --------------------------------------------------------------------- Fabien_Roy@free.fdn.org (NextMail/MIME accepted) Fabien Roy Consultant NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/EOF Consultant, SYBASE DBA 10 rue de la DEFENSE 93100 MONTREUIL, France Tel: 33 (0)1 45 28 32 23 Fax: 33 (0)1 48 55 09 90 GSM: 33 (0)6 60 46 36 83
From: kc@ignem.omnigroup.com (Ken Case) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prelude: system panic every time on boot-up Date: 6 Jun 1997 08:56:41 GMT Organization: Omni Development, Inc. Message-ID: <5n8jc9$9gv$2@gaea.omnigroup.com> References: <pf-0206971748380001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> <pf-0206971843410001@biomedia-pf-2.bio.purdue.edu> Paul Furbacher (pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu) wrote: : SCSI HDs: 0: has Windows 95 setup (2 + 2 GB) : 1: has a single OpenStep partition (4 GB) You can get OpenStep working in this configuration, but you have to edit /etc/fstab on your OpenStep partition so that it knows to mount /dev/sd1a as root rather than /dev/sd0a (which is the default). To edit the /etc/fstab, you'll either need to disconnect the Win95 disk temporarily, or boot with "-s rootdev=sd1a" and once you get a shell prompt "mount -o remount /dev/sd1a /" then use a UNIX editor--say, vi--to edit /etc/fstab. (Obviously, which solution you find easier will depend on your relative comfort with hardware vs. UNIX.) Feel free to contact me in e-mail if you'd like more detailed directions on this process. : We disconnected the Windows 95 SCSI drive, went : through the whole install procedure again and : got as far as the bottom of page 39 of "Installing : and Configuring OpenStep". Upon restart, we got a : panel which showed the progress in starting up : OpenStep, but suddenly the screen went black, save : for a blue rectangle in which white text pronounced: : : OUT OF SCAN RANGE It sounds like OpenStep is configuring your video card to use a resolution and refresh frequency which isn't supported by your monitor, and your monitor is giving up and presenting the "OUT OF SCAN RANGE" message. If you boot "config=Default" it will resort to using the standard VGA resolution, which hopefully will be supported by your monitor. You should then be able to run /NextAdmin/Configure.app and change your display configuration to something which your monitor will support. (Assuming, of course, that that is in fact the problem which you are encountering.) Hope this helps! : -- : Dr. Paul Furbacher : Dept. of Biological Sciences : Purdue University : West Lafayette, IN 47907-1392 : pf@bilbo.bio.purdue.edu -- Ken Case kc@omnigroup.com Omni Development, Inc. http://www.omnigroup.com
From: com@com.com (com@com.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 05:30:21 GMT Organization: com@com.com Message-ID: <3398eef1.3101355@news.voyageronline.net> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> <5n893e$obh$3@news.xmission.com> On 6 Jun 1997 06:01:18 GMT, don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) wrote: >com@com.com (com@com.com) wrote: >> Eric, I would be curious (and other lurkers) to know what a NextStep >> programmer makes? In particular, those many & several programmers >> I see that post here. The ones that do work "off location" (i.e. their >> home or office) (vs. i.e. working for a traditional "company"). > >Well, to inject some tiny hint of reality into this, the would the above, working off 'location', be in line with reality, in your opinion? >consultants charge what they can get, and that will vary >greatly from one project to the next for most of them. If >they are popular and well known, like Omni, they can get >$250/hour on some contracts. If they don't have those sorts I guess I was talking about what the individual takes home. I seem to remember reading somewhere. .that the "company" will bill (i.e.) $200./hour the programmer will get about 1/2 this. . which is still about 50% above what someone on salary gets (with the trade off, being. . salary=job protection, more benefits, more stable life, etc.) >of credentials, they may be as cheap as, say a student who >scrapes out code by night and goes for $15/hour. And there's I would be curious to know if such animals do exist? (in NextStep that is). >a whole spectrum in between. So you could say that the NeXT >developers are making something between $30k to $500k per >year...though I _strongly_ suspect that most are nearer to the >60-100k range (depending upon skill) Skill. . . . and location. . . a person making a $100k/year in the People's Republic of California. . or the Worker's Paradise of New York City, would probably not be living as well as someone that has left those type locales. .and relocated to the backwoods of wherever. Hence the question about working "off location". Even the most remote parts of the nation are connected now. >This is somewhat conjecture, somewhat based on what I know of >others in the same field, but should be pretty close to the truth. >I won't tell you what I make or charge, though, in any terms more >precise than the above. :-) And I wouldn't want you too! I'm looking more for "general" terms. I guess you have the 'low' and the 'high'---and most people probably fall into that bell curve in the middle. On the other hand, how many people that use NextStep are mediocre enough to be described as average? hmmm... Thanks for the input. > >-- >Later, > >-Don Yacktman >don@misckit.com ><a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a> >
From: com@com.com (com@com.com) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 05:31:22 GMT Organization: com@com.com Message-ID: <3398ef04.3120517@news.voyageronline.net> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> <Mna2p7O00UhBA1mvM2@andrew.cmu.edu> <5n9qga$cnu$4@news2.digex.net> On 6 Jun 1997 20:04:26 GMT, John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> wrote: >I think it being a highly demanded, but short supplied market has >a lot to do with the higher rates.... All that will change in the >upcoming years (so live it up while you can :). This is a most interesting statement! Would you care to guess as to the figures? I know that NextStep was never a "wild" success in terms of lots of people using it, but WAS a success in terms of programmers making money. Are you talking 20% off the figures above? ---or something more drastic, like "80%"? Also, can you give a time frame? (lets assume Rhapsody ships on time etc.). When would the above figure(s) start to influence the market?
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: 7 Jun 1997 05:42:29 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5nasc5$fva$1@news2.digex.net> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> <Mna2p7O00UhBA1mvM2@andrew.cmu.edu> <5n9qga$cnu$4@news2.digex.net> <3398ef04.3120517@news.voyageronline.net> com@com.com (com@com.com) wrote: > On 6 Jun 1997 20:04:26 GMT, John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> > wrote: > This is a most interesting statement! Would you care to guess > as to the figures? I know that NextStep was never a "wild" success > in terms of lots of people using it, but WAS a success in terms > of programmers making money. Are you talking 20% off the figures > above? ---or something more drastic, like "80%"? > Also, can you give a time frame? (lets assume Rhapsody ships on > time etc.). When would the above figure(s) start to influence > the market? Well, my best guestimate would be for those figures to asymtotically approach the industry average...The rate of change would depend upon how quickly and in what numbers people will go to the environment. I image w/in 3 years that OPENSTEP salaries get inline with the rest of the industry... Then again, it's pretty much speculation on my part :) -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; Self expressed... __________________________________________________________________ monoChrome, Inc. ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK NeXT/OPENSTEP Developer mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School You're dangerous because you're honest
From: jreiss@discus.ise.vt.edu (Joe Reiss) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: changing the NeXT icon on the dock Date: 7 Jun 1997 13:10:09 GMT Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA Message-ID: <5nbmjh$4dv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> References: <leffert.865520500@cs.uchicago.edu> Leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) wrote... >I have a system that had a builddisk from a system that had replaced the >NeXT icon on the Dock. I'd like to change this back. Anyone know how to >do it? The file you want to change is... /usr/lib/NextStep/Workspace.app/NeXT.tiff Replace it with a copy of the original NeXT icon, reboot, and you'll be set. Joe -- | NeXTMail OK! | Everybody remember where we parked! | | ________ | | | | |__) | ======================================================== | | (_|OE| \EISS | - Two Trekkers after the saucer stopped, "Generations" |
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: 6 Jun 1997 20:04:26 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5n9qga$cnu$4@news2.digex.net> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> <Mna2p7O00UhBA1mvM2@andrew.cmu.edu> Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > It depends on whether you choose to be a salaried employee or > whether you want to play the consulting game. Consultants can > make anywhere up to $250 an hour, but somewhere in the region of > $125-$150 is going to be a lot more typical. Of course, a > consultant has to find new work on a regular basis, and they can > end up not working for a while if the market slows down. > The low-end for salaried employees is about $30,000 - $35,000, > and really good NEXTSTEP programmers can see over $100K, with > $50K being a reasonable guestimate for the average salary for an > experienced programmer. Boy, I think it depends on region, b/c here in NY the salaries I've heard of are a LOT higher. I've heard consultants getting round $350/hr (sheesh as bad as lawyers :) but on average $175-225, and full time work for a decently experienced NeXT programmer (3+ years) is in the 80-100k on average, and 130k on up for the super duper guys... I think it being a highly demanded, but short supplied market has a lot to do with the higher rates.... All that will change in the upcoming years (so live it up while you can :). -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; Self expressed... __________________________________________________________________ monoChrome, Inc. ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK NeXT/OPENSTEP Developer mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School You're dangerous because you're honest
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: resolv.conf? Date: 6 Jun 1997 12:58:35 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Message-ID: <5n91hr$11k@crcnis3.unl.edu> References: <1133064AB45072B4.11A6E0D181C2A95E.08E3F0808D121E69@library-proxy.airnews.net> In article <1133064AB45072B4.11A6E0D181C2A95E.08E3F0808D121E69@library-proxy.airnews.n et> liuyi@dragon-dance.com (Yi Liu) writes: > On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:05:08 GMT, Jonathan B. Leffert <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> > wrote: > > The line > > search host1.net host2.net > > > > does not seem to work in /etc/resolv.conf. I'd like to modify the dns > > search path. is this possible? > > I believe 'search' is not supported with the 'named' shipped with NS3.x. > You'll have to install bind-4.9.5 package that's on peak courtesy of > Gerben_Wierda@rna.nl. Look for it in peak:/pub/next/apps/internet/misc The bind delivered with NeXTSTEP (as of 3.3, at least) is version 4.8.3 (I believe), and my "DNS and BIND" O'Reilly book says it supports the search directive in resolv.conf. 1. Did you reboot after making the change to /etc/resolv.conf? (I think this is required). 2. You can also specify resolver information in NetInfo at: /locations/resolver If this is the case, this overrides settings in /etc/resolv.conf, I believe. 3. Test the resolver routines using /usr/etc/nslookup Lastly, simply upgrading named will NOT help. named is not the problem, it's NeXT's resolver routines built-in to the C system libraries. Good luck. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: Mark Lasersohn <laser@cowhouse.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: nextstep's renderman w/SGI softimage and sorender Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 11:14:20 -0400 Organization: Cow House Productions Message-ID: <33997ACC.167E@cowhouse.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am trying to use Softimage with SoRender on an SGI box and Renderman on a nextstep box. Can anyone give me some helpful hints on the best way to set up such a beast? -- Mark Lasersohn Cow House Productions laser@cowhouse.com http://www.cowhouse.com 330-569-7492
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer From: brianw@sounds.wa.com (Brian Willoughby) Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Message-ID: <EBF342.5v7.0.scream@sounds.wa.com> Organization: Sound Consulting, Bellevue, WA, USA References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n9qga$cnu$4@news2.digex.net> <3398ef04.3120517@news.voyageronline.net> <5nasc5$fva$1@news2.digex.net> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 17:55:14 GMT In article <5nasc5$fva$1@news2.digex.net>, John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> wrote: >Well, my best guestimate would be for those figures to asymtotically >approach the industry average...The rate of change would depend >upon how quickly and in what numbers people will go to the environment. >I image w/in 3 years that OPENSTEP salaries get inline with the >rest of the industry... Then again, it's pretty much speculation >on my part :) I would be curious to know what the industry average is for programmers in the markets that are most similar to OPENSTEP now. I have a couple of figures for the Seattle area, but I don't know if they're reliable or more wishful thinking. In other words, what are Object Oriented software developers making on contract in various parts of the US, or the world. My impression is that talented OO programmers command reasonably high rates which wouldn't upset a long-term NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP professional. -- Brian Willoughby NEXTSTEP, OpenStep, Rhapsody Software Design Sound Consulting Bellevue, WA, U.S.A. Registered NeXT/Apple Enterprise Alliance Partner BrianW@SoundS.WA.com NeXTmail welcome
From: tsnSSSmith@csd.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,misc.entrepreneurs,misc.forsale.computers.discussion,misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.misc,misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.cards.video,misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.misc,misc.forsale.computers.mac-specific.portables,misc.forsale.computers.memory,misc.forsale.computers.modems,misc.forsale.computers.net-hardware,misc.forsale.computers.other.misc,misc.forsale.computers.other.software,misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.cards.misc,misc.forsale.computers.storage,alt.business.import-export.computer,alt.make.money.fast,alt.make.money Subject: WIRELESS INTERNET ACCESS AT 128K Date: Sat, 07 Jun 97 20:15:39 GMT Organization: MegsInet, Inc. - Midwestern Internet Services Message-ID: <5ncf7l$64k$2@news.megsinet.net> http://www.trweb.com/infonow
From: sef@kithrup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5nc9jp$d7n$1021@usenet85.supernews.com> Date: 7 Jun 1997 20:02:09 GMT Control: cancel <5nc9jp$d7n$1021@usenet85.supernews.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5nc9jp$d7n$1021@usenet85.supernews.com> Sender: jasonben@aol.com Spam cancelled by sef@kithrup.com
From: kwong@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Kai S. Wong) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: resolv.conf? Date: 6 Jun 1997 15:31:43 GMT Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland Message-ID: <5n9agv$dm4@coranto.ucs.mun.ca> References: <leffert.865541108@cs.uchicago.edu> leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) writes: >The line >search host1.net host2.net >does not seem to work in /etc/resolv.conf. I'd like to modify the dns >search path. is this possible? The NeXT version only support domain xxx.xxx kai -- Software Engineer email: kwong@morgan.ucs.mun.ca url: http://web.cs.mun.ca/~kwong/ PGP fingerprint <1B 67 F5 6C C4 44 4F 87 52 F7 61 C7 8E D0 36 40> finger kwong@plato.ucs.mun.ca to get PGP public key.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: 7 Jun 1997 20:31:56 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5ncgfs$fnp$1@news2.digex.net> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n9qga$cnu$4@news2.digex.net> <3398ef04.3120517@news.voyageronline.net> <5nasc5$fva$1@news2.digex.net> <EBF342.5v7.0.scream@sounds.wa.com> brianw@sounds.wa.com (Brian Willoughby) wrote: > In article <5nasc5$fva$1@news2.digex.net>, John Kheit > <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> wrote: > >Well, my best guestimate would be for those figures to asymtotically > >approach the industry average...The rate of change would depend > >upon how quickly and in what numbers people will go to the > >environment. I image w/in 3 years that OPENSTEP salaries get > >inline with the rest of the industry... Then again, it's pretty > >much speculation on my part :) > I would be curious to know what the industry average is for > programmers in the markets that are most similar to OPENSTEP now. > I have a couple of figures for the Seattle area, but I don't know > if they're reliable or more wishful thinking. In other words, > what are Object Oriented software developers making on contract > in various parts of the US, or the world. My impression is that > talented OO programmers command reasonably high rates which > wouldn't upset a long-term NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP professional. Well, I don't know the national figures. And the NYC figures I have are a combination of hearsay, and anecdotal experience. And of course it depends on experience... But if graduating student can expect a 30k/yr salary for doing basic C type coding, I'd say you would be in the 40k/yr doing OO work of import and significance (i.e. where the C++ project relied on the ++ in some significant way)... I would think that salary boost would apply throughout, but don't know for sure... And a graduating student with a fair bit of NeXT experience (say 1 yr) can usually land in at 50-60k/yr... -- Thanks, be well, take care, later, John Kheit; Self expressed... __________________________________________________________________ monoChrome, Inc. ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK NeXT/OPENSTEP Developer mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School You're dangerous because you're honest
From: embuck@palmer.cca.rockwell.com (Erik M. Buck) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: NeXT People Question Date: 7 Jun 1997 18:47:58 GMT Organization: Rockwell Collins Message-ID: <5ncacu$5fo3@castor.cca.rockwell.com> References: <865389689.23631@dejanews.com> <5n4247$odp@crl.crl.com> <edewEBC19q.H4D@netcom.com> <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> Cc: com@com.com In <33979c83.1360723@news.voyageronline.net> com@com.com wrote: EXPERT nextstep programmers who ALSO have some knowledge of one of the many application fields using NeXTstep earn low 6 figures from remote offices and mid 6 figures for on-site work. Add 25% for New York City and some other expensive areas. NOVICE nextstep programmers earn about standard fees 50-75k / year One reason fees are high (apart from supply and demand) is that expert nextstep programmers are capable of creating apps for vertical or horizontal markets very rapidly and inexpensively. Employers are pay a premium for the "opportunity costs" of distracting the programmers from building and selling their own apps. For instance, my company earns 7 figures for selling apps but only six figures for contract work. With nextstep, the risks of building apps without a paying customer are low. It is an extremely good business to be in right now.
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <26791865137630@digifix.com> Date: 8 Jun 1997 03:57:17 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <14012865742421@digifix.com> Topics include: Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site eduSTEP WWW site NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site comp.sys.next newsgroups related newsgroups comp.sys.next newsgroups mailing list ftp sites NeXTanswers Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site =============================================== This online community resource includes - ISV company pages - ISV product descriptions - NEXTSTEP Developer Directory - NEXTSTEP Community WhitePages - Mailing List archives and information You can connect via the world wide web at: http://www.stepwise.com/ Suggestions or comments can be directed to me at sanguish@digifix.com If you would like to get your company and product information on Stepwise, please contact me at sanguish@digifix.com. eduSTEP WWW site ================ http://www.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/eduStep/ eduStep aims to provide up-to-date information on: - NextStep tools and projects for scientists. - Third-party products interesting for the educational and scientific community (with educational discounts noted, where they exist). - A listing of resellers and shops interested in working with customers in the educational community. - Conferences, meetings, workshops - Major projects, such as SciTools, EMBL's project to develop a NextStep scientific work environment - Status reports on GNUStep, a freely-available implementation of OpenStep now being developed NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site ============================ http://www.next.com comp.sys.next.* newsgroups ========================== news:comp.sys.next.advocacy This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. news:comp.sys.next.announce Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. news:comp.sys.next.bugs A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT- specific groups as well. news:comp.sys.next.hardware Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. news:comp.sys.next.marketplace NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. news:comp.sys.next.misc For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! news:comp.sys.next.programmer Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. news:comp.sys.next.software This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. news:comp.sys.next.sysadmin Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. Related Newsgroups ================== news:comp.soft-sys.nextstep Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. news:comp.lang.objective-c Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. news:comp.object Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com The ftp sites ============= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org - The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de: - (Peanuts) Located in Germany. ftp://ftp.dn.net/pub/next - Peanuts mirror in the US ftp://terra.stack.urc.tue.nl - (Dutch NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it - (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next - eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: - See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTStation as X terminal? Date: 8 Jun 1997 00:32:19 -0700 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <5ndn63$c30@slip.net> References: <1997051911435282315@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> <5m1mdj$ro5$3@news.th-darmstadt.de> >Georg Schwarz (schwarz@physik.tu-berlin.de) wrote: >> I've got a b/w-NeXTStation (68040, 8 MB RAM) running NEXTSTEP 2.1. >> Could I turn it into an X terminal? To reduce administration, it would >> be best if, after booting, the NeXT already displayed the login screen >> of another machine (running e.g. Linux). Is that feasable? I expect you'll have to upgrade to NS 3.+. then you can look for Co-Xist or Cub'X on c.s.n.m. You may be able to find Co-Xist for about 50$-100$ to run X applications. > Christian Neuss <neuss@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nospam> wrote: >For crying out loud, stop torturing the poor thing! Co-Xist works fine if you running an app like Plot-MTV or GNUplot. Sell it to someone >(I'm sure you'll get a couple 100 Deutschmark for it), and buy a cheap >PC to run Linux. The problem with that solution is that you lose Interface Builder. Important if you're developing GUIs. And of course if you go with Linux forget about apps for video editing, CD quality digital audio recording, and DTP applications like PasteUp. Pretty much all Linux has to offer is some third party database products, a C++ compiler, ghostview, Mathematica (all of which are available for NS anyway.) Anyway, you can get a reliable NeXT box for far less than a reliable PC. Nowadays you can purchase a NeXT 21" color monitor (which works fine with a Mono box) for 250$. See if you can beat that price with Intel hardware. > You'll save alot of time. What developing X-Windows apps in Linux versus Interface Builder in NeXTSTEP? That's a laugh. That I'd like to see. > Besides, X windows servers for black HW are neither fast not cheap - Well, compared to Linux nothing is cheap. >and I don't know where you could get an X server for 2.1 - hm, in a museum perhaps :-) Agreed, upgrade to at least 3.0 . Emmett
From: Photorep45@ibm.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Sell YourPhotosNYC.Agency Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 04:35:10 Organization: Internet MCI Message-ID: <5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> PHOTO PHOENIX INTERNATIONAL We are an international New York based agency representing amateur and professional photographers in the following areas: Galleries, Business and Organizations, Book Publishers, Paper Products, Consumer Publication, Newspapers & Newsletters Publication, Special Interest Publication, and Trade Publication. We are seeking photographers who strive for excellence in the aesthetic/ creative and technological world of images, who have the talent to capture the setting and to convey the mood. Your work should reflect a genuine, pervasive interest in photography as a fine art. Whether your work portrays conservative, experimental, stylish, or innovative themes, your project proposal should be well thought out before submitting to us. For first contact, please submit a query letter, direct mail flier/brochure, tearsheets, slides, photographs & SASE. For amateur photographers, send sample photos and/or slides. TO ALL: Do not send entire portfolio unless we ask for it. If we are not interested, you might not hear from us, so please submit material that does not need to be returned. Send to: Photo Phoenix International 33-29 58 Street Woodside, New York 11377 Tele: Florida Branch-(941) 642-660
From: emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 8 Jun 1997 00:49:44 -0700 Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> In article <338DB457.2579@abacus.com>, Jim Gagnon <jimg@abacus.com> wrote: > >Interesting. The long-time NeXT guys tell me that NeXTStep has real >issues as a server OS. I don't believe it. > Apparently, if you put more than twelve-or-so >users on it at a time, it really bogs down. Depends on the machine, an 030 running NS 3.0 with 16 Megs of RAM will slow up once there are about 15+ users. An 040/33 machine running NS 3.3 with 64 Megs of RAM will handle 25+ users nicely. That's my experience based upon my programming expericnce with NS 3.0 and NS 3.1 at San Francisco State. > Also, there's a limit of 200 processes in NeXTStep, which is >actually pretty low for even a client-side OS. The limit is more like 400. I know this because in the graduate Operating Systems each year there is a project on creating threads and almost every year someone forgets to put a time out wrapper on the threads he creates and brings down the entire system by creating hundreds of new processes. We've been able to watch the number of processes as the machine slows to death. 400 based upon this experience is the limit. After about 300 the the machine is effectively useless. > To top it off, a NeXTStep system really needs the >protection of a firewall -- security is definitely behind the levels >defined by Solaris and AIX. Well, I'd take NS over NT anyday. Are you comparing a sparc to a cube? Not a fair comparison since a sparc costs about 20 times more. Or are you refering to NS running under Solaris? > Apple may have cancelled updates to AIX (and who can blame them), but >they've got some work before Rhapsody is up to snuff as a standalone >Server. They could have done a lot worse than NS. I don't expect Rhapsody compete with Sun in the 100,000$+ market. But expect Rhapsody will be terrific, much better than it is now, in its areas of strength. Like DTP and video/audio stuff. NS is pretty good in these areas now - even without Apple. Emmett
From: jbf_see_sig@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: changing the NeXT icon on the dock Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 12:55:02 -0400 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf_see_sig-ya023580000806971255020001@news.tiac.net> References: <leffert.865520500@cs.uchicago.edu> <5nbmjh$4dv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5nbmjh$4dv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, jreiss@vt.edu wrote: > Leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) wrote... > >I have a system that had a builddisk from a system that had replaced the > >NeXT icon on the Dock. I'd like to change this back. Anyone know how to > >do it? > > The file you want to change is... > /usr/lib/NextStep/Workspace.app/NeXT.tiff > > Replace it with a copy of the original NeXT icon, reboot, and you'll > be set. There is a shareware tool on the archives that restores all the black icons (there are about 10 scattered here and there). Something like "BlackIcon" ... Barney (delete that _see_sig to email me)
From: sef@kithrup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> Date: 8 Jun 1997 16:51:31 GMT Control: cancel <5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> Sender: Photorep45@ibm.net Spam cancelled by sef@kithrup.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) Subject: procmail and nextmail Message-ID: <leffert.865885554@cs.uchicago.edu> Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:45:54 GMT Here's the situation, I've got a UNIX mail account (this account) and a NeXT machine that I don't use for mail. I'd like to use procmail to forward NeXTMail sent to my UNIX account to my account on my NeXT. I figure that I could look through the headers for a NeXTMail header and then forward it, but I have no idea how to do this. Has anyone done this? -j -- Jonathan B. Leffert <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> "But on the serious 3.5% tip, 'B' is the second letter of the English Alphabet. You work it out." -- Tone Def, "Fear of a Black Hat" finger -l leffert@cs.uchicago.edu for PGP Public Key
From: andrew david kaczorek <kaczorek@students.uiuc.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: resolv.conf again? Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 22:17:42 -0500 Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970609221342.9152A-100000@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm also having a problem guess-configuring my NextStation. I've got two machines on this network as a test...oldtimer.morris.net (486 running linux) and badboy.morris.net (running ns 3.2). I'm trying to get the next to work right. As of now, the next will work if i type "ping oldtimer" or "ping badboy" or even "ping localhost". But if i type "ping badboy.morris.net" it will not work. I have the following line in my resolv.conf domain morris.net my hostconfig file calls the next "badboy" and gives it ip addres 150.150.150.2 wheras "oldtimer" is 150.150.150.1. I also added badboy and oldtimer in the netinfo using hostmanager. i am completely ignorant about how the UNIX and GUI work together/against each other in this situation. I have no books....no man pages....no more ideas. So I'd really be floored if I could get help about this. Please respond via email as well since I cannot check this grroup frequently. thanks. andrew
From: Greg_Anderson@afs.com (Gregory H. Anderson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Unusable fonts in OS/NT? Date: 9 Jun 1997 22:22:39 GMT Organization: Anderson Financial Systems Inc. Message-ID: <5nhvnf$g8i@shelob.afs.com> I'm trying to move some of my NeXT fonts over to OS/NT. I put them in /LocalLibrary/Fonts, I see buildafmdir do its thing, the font families and faces show up in the Font Panel, but all of them are marked as "Unusable" in the preview section. I tried logging out and in, no luck. Anyone else had this problem and know a solution? Thanks. BTW, these are all "legit" Adobe fonts in 2.0 format. No clones or PD. -- Gregory H. Anderson | "We're in the land of the blind, Visionary Ophthalmologist | selling working eyeballs, and they Anderson Financial Systems | balk at the choice of color." -- Tony greg@afs.com (NeXTmail OK) | Lovell, on Mac user reactions to NeXT
From: Christian Neuss <neuss@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.NOSPAM> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTStation as X terminal? Date: 10 Jun 1997 11:51:50 GMT Organization: Technische Hochschule Darmstadt Message-ID: <5njf4m$fvi$1@news.th-darmstadt.de> References: <1997051911435282315@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> <5m1mdj$ro5$3@news.th-darmstadt.de> <5ndn63$c30@slip.net> emclean@slip.net (Emmett McLean) wrote: >>Georg Schwarz (schwarz@physik.tu-berlin.de) wrote: >>> I've got a b/w-NeXTStation (68040, 8 MB RAM) running NEXTSTEP 2.1. >>> Could I turn it into an X terminal? To reduce administration, it would >>> be best if, after booting, the NeXT already displayed the login screen >>> of another machine (running e.g. Linux). Is that feasable? > Anyway, you can get a reliable NeXT box for far less than a reliable > PC. Nowadays you can purchase a NeXT 21" color monitor (which works > fine with a Mono box) for 250$. See if you can beat that price > with Intel hardware. The NeXT color monitor does not work with a Mono station. In order to use a Color monitor with a NeXT machine, you need either a Cube with a ND or a NeXTstation Color. Rgds, Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc From: cdouty@netcom.com (Chris Douty) Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Message-ID: <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom On-Line Services References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:50:16 GMT Sender: cdouty@netcom6.netcom.com In article <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net>, Emmett McLean <emclean@slip.net> wrote: >In article <338DB457.2579@abacus.com>, Jim Gagnon <jimg@abacus.com> wrote: >> >>Interesting. The long-time NeXT guys tell me that NeXTStep has real >>issues as a server OS. > > I don't believe it. Believe it. I love my cube (twin ND's) and intel box, but MachOS is not quite up to snuff as an application server. I don't know about hosting multiple users and shell activity, etc. but there are some definite bugs and limitations in the OS and object layer wrt network applications. There is a hard limit on the number of active TCP sockets, a limit run into by people serving http. It also affects DO traffic quite severely. DO uses two TCP sockets per object connection. (Well, at least two per machine are used. nmserver may multiplex its connections for all programs on a given machine.) The network and other I/O drivers are quite slow compared to Solaris or linux or BSD. I support a true DO application which brings down a random machine at least once a day. Now, much of this instability is probably due to poor program design, but a user level program does manage to panic a PPro 200 w/ 256MB of RAM running either NS 3.3 or OS 4.1. Yeah, I'd say there are some issues for NeXTstep as a server OS _today_. Rhapsody can be better and very likely will be. > Well, I'd take NS over NT anyday. Amen to that. -Chris -- Christopher Douty - Rogue Engineer trapped in a land of software cdouty@netcom.com "Frequently the messages have meaning; that is they refer to or are correlated according to some system with physical or conceptual entities. These semantic aspects of communication are irrelevant to the engineering problem." -Shannon
From: Photorep45@ibm.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> Control: cancel <5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> Message-ID: <despam.5ndqod$nm$1160@news.internetmci.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:00:00 -700 Cancel Spam.
From: Steve Dekorte <dekorte@slip.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 10 Jun 1997 17:55:01 GMT Organization: Slip.Net (http://www.slip.net) Message-ID: <5nk4dl$q7d$1@owl> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> In comp.sys.next.programmer Jim Gagnon <jimg@abacus.com> wrote: > John Christie wrote: > Interesting. The long-time NeXT guys tell me that NeXTStep has real > issues as a server OS. Apparently, if you put more than twelve-or-so > users on it at a time, it really bogs down. Also, there's a limit of > 200 processes in NeXTStep, which is actually pretty low for even a > client-side OS. To top it off, a NeXTStep system really needs the > protection of a firewall -- security is definitely behind the levels > defined by Solaris and AIX. I think your info may be based on 6-8 year old NeXT black hardware running an equally old version of the OS. Steve
From: "Timothy J. Luoma" <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: procmail and nextmail Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:02:36 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970610115051.14148A-100000@cc344191-a> References: <leffert.865885554@cs.uchicago.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: "Jonathan B. Leffert" <leffert@cs.uchicago.edu> In-Reply-To: <leffert.865885554@cs.uchicago.edu> On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Jonathan B. Leffert wrote: > Here's the situation, I've got a UNIX mail account (this account) and a > NeXT machine that I don't use for mail. I'd like to use procmail to > forward NeXTMail sent to my UNIX account to my account on my NeXT. I > figure that I could look through the headers for a NeXTMail header and then > forward it, but I have no idea how to do this. Has anyone done this? :0 * ^Next-Attachment: ! you@nextmailmachine.ext or if you want to be safer :0 * ^Next-Attachment: { :0c: IN.nextmail :0 ! you@nextmailmachine.ext } actually, we want to avoid mail loops too, so we should add a header we can check to make sure we haven't done this already. We'll use formail and the '-I' flag to insert a new header and then send that to sendmail :0 * ^Next-Attachment: * ! X-Loop: you@nextmailmachine.ext { :0c: IN.nextmail :0 | $FORMAIL -I"X-Loop: you@nextmailmachine.ext" |\ $SENDMAIL -oi you@nextmailmachine.ext } You should be sure to define FORMAIL and SENDMAIL, and why don't we pop that email address into a variable also.... # point this to whevever formail is on your system FORMAIL=/usr/local/bin/formail # ditto for sendmail SENDMAIL=/usr/lib/sendmail # this is the address you want to forward to # which can read NeXTMail ALTADD=you@nextmailmachine.ext :0 * ^Next-Attachment: * ! X-Loop: ${ALTADD} { # we make a backup of the mail into a mailfolder # called 'IN.nextmail' or whatever you'd like to # call it... just so we can save ourselves # if the forwarding goes wrong :0c: IN.nextmail # Insert an X-Loop header to avoid mail loops :0 | $FORMAIL -I"X-Loop: ${ALTADD}" |\ $SENDMAIL -oi ${ALTADD} } # end of procmail recipe for forwaring NeXTMail YMMV/Use at your own risk, etc etc... TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ "The best things in life are made into inferior versions and bundled with the latest Microsoft systems" NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html
From: Subir Grewal <hostmaster@trill-home.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT laser printer toner cartidge? Date: 10 Jun 1997 23:41:01 GMT Organization: Trill host selection council Message-ID: <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com> I can't seem to reach peanuts.leo.org from here, so I thought I'd ask whether anyone knew what toner cartridges NeXT laser printers would take. -- hostmaster@trill-home.com + Lynx 2.7.1 + NeXT/PGP mail + www.crl.com/~subir/ Parts that positively cannot be assembled in improper order will be.
From: *johnnyc*@or.psychology.dal.ca (John Christie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:30:31 -0300 Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Message-ID: <*johnnyc*-1006972130320001@192.0.2.1> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5nk4dl$q7d$1@owl> In article <5nk4dl$q7d$1@owl>, Steve Dekorte <dekorte@slip.net> wrote: > In comp.sys.next.programmer Jim Gagnon <jimg@abacus.com> wrote: > > John Christie wrote: > > Interesting. The long-time NeXT guys tell me that NeXTStep has real > > issues as a server OS. Apparently, if you put more than twelve-or-so > > users on it at a time, it really bogs down. Also, there's a limit of > > 200 processes in NeXTStep, which is actually pretty low for even a > > client-side OS. To top it off, a NeXTStep system really needs the > > protection of a firewall -- security is definitely behind the levels > > defined by Solaris and AIX. > > I think your info may be based on 6-8 year old NeXT black hardware running > an equally old version of the OS. > > Steve I never wrote any of this. Please quote correctly. thankyou -- You aren't free if you CAN choose - only if you DO choose. All you are is the decisions you make. Remove "*" and ohnny (i.e. jc@) to reply via email
From: Free Cable<larry@aol.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: CABLE BOX DESCRAMBLER BUILD YOUR OWN DESCRAMBLER FAST CHEAP AND EASY Date: 11 Jun 1997 00:02:42 GMT Organization: Free Cable Message-ID: <5nkpv2$e72@chronicle.concentric.net> CABLE BOX DESCRAMBLER BUILD YOUR OWN DESCRAMBLER FAST CHEAP AND EASY Just a few inexpensive parts from Radio Shack and a little time and you can descramble every cable channel. See all your favorite movie channels,pay per view etc To recieve detail instructions and diagrams on how to construct your own Cable Box Descrambler Mail $5.00 CASH MONEY ORDER CHECK S&G Enterprise 12145 Augusta Woods Cir Suite 3 Orlando FL. 32824 Please be sure to include your full name & address Allow 10 days to recieve Thank You Seth Garner
From: sef@kithrup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5nkpv2$e72@chronicle.concentric.net> Date: 11 Jun 1997 00:46:58 GMT Control: cancel <5nkpv2$e72@chronicle.concentric.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5nkpv2$e72@chronicle.concentric.net> Sender: Free Cable<larry@aol.com> Spam cancelled by sef@kithrup.com
From: REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:43:57 -0500 Organization: Univ. Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center Message-ID: <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com>, cdouty@netcom.com (Chris Douty) wrote: > Yeah, I'd say there are some issues for NeXTstep as a server OS _today_. > Rhapsody can be better and very likely will be. They're certainly going to try. Plans are to eventually port a server version of Rhapsody to the Apple Network Server 500 and 700 (the big AIX boxes), as well as offering server configurations in the cases that succeed the 9600/8600. -- David Gutierrez REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu Remove everything before the "drg" to send mail to me. Some junk e-mailers scan .sig files, as well as From: lines, to get addresses. "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
From: Photoagent@ibm.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Attention All Photographers Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:37:49 Organization: Internet MCI Message-ID: <5nlh01$eqc$1103@news.internetmci.com> PHOTO PHOENIX INTERNATIONAL We are an international New York based agency representing professional and amateur photographers in the following areas: Galleries, Business and Organizations, Book Publishers, Paper Products, Consumer Publication, Newspapers & Newsletters Publication, Special Interest Publication, and Trade Publication. The images we are seeking are some of the following: Animals/Architecture/Art/Automobiles/Business/Celebrities/Documentary/ Entertainment/Erotica-Nudity/Fashion/Food/Health/History/Hobbies/ Outdoors/People/Political/Portraits/Still Lifes/Religious/Science/ Sports/Travel. Whether your work portrays conservative, experimental, stylish, or innovative themes, your project proposal should be well thought out before submitting to us. For first contact, please submit a query letter, and samples of your work. Please include SASE. Do not send entire portfolio unless we ask for it. If we are not interested, you may not hear from us because of time limitations, so please submit what does not need to be returned. If we think your work is sellable we will respond as quickly as possible. Send to: Photo Phoenix International 33-29 58 Street Woodside, New York 11377 Tele: Florida Branch-(941) 642-660
From: sef@kithrup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5nlh01$eqc$1103@news.internetmci.com> Date: 11 Jun 1997 07:00:10 GMT Control: cancel <5nlh01$eqc$1103@news.internetmci.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5nlh01$eqc$1103@news.internetmci.com> Sender: Photoagent@ibm.net Spam cancelled by sef@kithrup.com
From: fischer@fokus.gmd.de (Robert Fischer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT laser printer toner cartidge? Date: 11 Jun 1997 11:39:59 GMT Organization: GMD-FOKUS Message-ID: <5nm2qf$9fa@stern.fokus.gmd.de> References: <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com> Subir Grewal <hostmaster@trill-home.com> writes > I can't seem to reach peanuts.leo.org from here, so I thought I'd ask > whether anyone knew what toner cartridges NeXT laser printers would > take. EP-S cartridge is the short description. This kind is used for several printers (Apple, HP, ...) Robert -- --- - .-. -- -- --- / \ ---- Robert Fischer .-. / \ --- .-. __o .-. @ / \ / \ / \ _`\<,_ / \ GMD-Fokus / \ / \ / \ (*)/ (*) / `-------------- / `---' `-' `-----------'
From: j-norstad@nwu.edu (John Norstad) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:17:05 -0600 Organization: Northwestern University Message-ID: <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> In article <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu>, REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) wrote: > In article <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com>, cdouty@netcom.com (Chris Douty) wrote: > > > Yeah, I'd say there are some issues for NeXTstep as a server OS _today_. > > Rhapsody can be better and very likely will be. > > They're certainly going to try. Plans are to eventually port a server > version of Rhapsody to the Apple Network Server 500 and 700 (the big AIX > boxes), as well as offering server configurations in the cases that > succeed the 9600/8600. I understand that Apple has a server engineering team devoted to solving the problems in NeXTStep for server use. There will be separate server and workstation versions of Rhapsody, like Windows NT. Servers are definitely one of their target markets for the initial versions of Rhapsody. For example, the server version will support spanning, striping, and mirroring file systems, and the core OS will be tuned for server use. -- John Norstad <mailto:j-norstad@nwu.edu> <http://charlotte.acns.nwu.edu/jln/>
From: a9050756@unet.univie.ac.at () Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: TeX fonts Date: 11 Jun 1997 14:40:50 GMT Organization: Vienna University, Austria Message-ID: <5nmddi$1nsa@www.univie.ac.at> I'd like to substitute the system Times/Symbol ps fonts with TeX fonts. Has anybody converted them? Mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: tom@icgned.nl (Tom Hageman) Subject: Re: changing the NeXT icon on the dock Message-ID: <EBM8HC.G1K@icgned.nl> Sender: news@icgned.nl Organization: IC Group References: <leffert.865520500@cs.uchicago.edu> <5nbmjh$4dv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <jbf_see_sig-ya023580000806971255020001@news.tiac.net> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:34:23 GMT jbf_see_sig@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) wrote: >In article <5nbmjh$4dv$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>, jreiss@vt.edu wrote: > >> Leffert@cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan B. Leffert) wrote... >> >I have a system that had a builddisk from a system that had replaced the >> >NeXT icon on the Dock. I'd like to change this back. Anyone know how to >> >do it? >> >> The file you want to change is... >> /usr/lib/NextStep/Workspace.app/NeXT.tiff >> >> Replace it with a copy of the original NeXT icon, reboot, and you'll >> be set. > >There is a shareware tool on the archives that restores all the black >icons (there are about 10 scattered here and there). Something like >"BlackIcon" ... BlackIcons. And it's freeware (although I don't _object_ to monetary donations coming my way:-) It does indeed restore "black" icons, but only those that were replaced with industry-conforming pale versions in NS3.3. The NeXT icon on the dock was (thankfully) not one of these, ergo it's not restored by BlackIcons... -- __/__/__/__/ Tom Hageman <tom@basil.icce.rug.nl> [NeXTmail/Mime OK] __/ __/_/ IC Group <tom@icgned.nl> (work) __/__/__/ __/ _/_/ Confused? You won't be after the NeXT episode.
From: Peter.Pregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Peter Pregler) Newsgroups: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Conversion from WriteNow 2.0 to WinWord7 Date: 11 Jun 1997 15:27:56 GMT Organization: RISC, J.K. University of Linz, Austria Sender: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at Message-ID: <5nmg5s$2a0e@alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hallo, we have the following problem. We use WriteNow 2.0 and want to change to WinWord 7. The problem is of cause that we want to convert or files or at least have some way to convert things on demand. Principally, one can export RFT from WriteNow but that does export things in the NeXT character set so German umlaute are not exported correctly. Therefore my questions: - Has anyone seen an import-filte for WriteNow 2.0 under Word? - Is it possible to export WriteNow documents with a decent character set, Even in some form of ASCII-format? - Is WriteNow available for Windows? Greetings, Peter ------------------------------- The world, you see, is not really as corrupt as people like to believe. ------------------------------- Email: Peter.Pregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at WWW: http://www.risc.uni-linz.ac.at/people/ppregler
From: "Timothy J. Luoma" <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: CABLE BOX DESCRAMBLER BUILD YOUR OWN DESCRAMBLER FAST CHEAP AND EASY Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:09:43 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970611120730.24622E-100000@cc344191-a> References: <5nkpv2$e72@chronicle.concentric.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <5nkpv2$e72@chronicle.concentric.net> On 11 Jun 1997, Free Cable wrote: > CABLE BOX DESCRAMBLER BUILD YOUR OWN DESCRAMBLER FAST CHEAP AND EASY > > Just a few inexpensive parts from Radio Shack and a little time and you can descramble every cable channel. See all your favorite movie channels,pay per view etc > > To recieve detail instructions and diagrams on how to construct your own Cable Box Descrambler > Mail $5.00 CASH MONEY ORDER CHECK > > S&G Enterprise > 12145 Augusta Woods Cir > Suite 3 > Orlando FL. 32824 > > Please be sure to include your full name & address > Allow 10 days to recieve > > Thank You > Seth Garner I encourage everyone who read the above post to: 1) forward it to 'enforcement@sec.gov' as he is either a thief (stealing cable) or a liar (who wants $$ through the USPS, something the USPS loves to stomp on). 2) mail a copy to postmaster general Orlando, FL 32824 (if you put it on a postcard I think you don't even need a stamp). And of course complain to concentric.net TjL
From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 11 Jun 1997 15:18:21 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Message-ID: <5nmfjt$9423@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> John Norstad (j-norstad@nwu.edu) wrote: : example, the server version will support spanning, striping, and mirroring You know you've been on Usenet too long when you misread the above as "...will support spamming...". -- Tom Harrington ------- tph@rmii.com ------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "Somebody shoot me!" -Animaniacs -> Fractal Kit: http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph/fractalkit/fractal.html <-
From: breiter@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (Bernhard Reiter) Newsgroups: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Conversion from WriteNow 2.0 to WinWord7 Date: 11 Jun 1997 16:49:36 GMT Organization: RRZN - Newsserver Message-ID: <5nmkv0$75m$2@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> References: <5nmg5s$2a0e@alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <5nmg5s$2a0e@alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at>, Peter.Pregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Peter Pregler) writes: > - Is it possible to export WriteNow documents with a decent character > set, Even in some form of ASCII-format? If just want the text. Save it in any char format and use GNU`s recode to get all the german umlaute right. Recode knows a lot of character sets. z.B.: recode next:latin1 my_text.txt Bernhard
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.unix.unixware,miscc.security,sci.eng.safety From: jackson@usenix.org (Jackson Dodd) Subject: 7th USENIX Security Symposium - Call for Papers Message-ID: <EBMDBA.4uK@usenix.org> Keywords: USENIX, conference, security Organization: USENIX Association Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:18:46 GMT 7th USENIX Security Symposium January 26-29, 1998 Marriott Hotel - San Antonio, TX If you are a security practitioner, researcher, or programmer involved in the lastest advances in security and applications of cryptography, this conference will be of interest to you. There will be refereed papers, tutorials, BoFs, invited talks, Works-in-Progress, and panel sessions. We are seeking refereed papers on topics such as: * Adaptive security and system management * Analysis of malicious code * Applications of cryptographic techniques * Attacks against networks/machines * Computer misuse and anomaly detection * Copyright protection (technical solutions) * Cryptographic & other security tools * File and file system security * Network security * New firewall technologies * Security in heterogeneous environments * Security incident investigation and response * Security of Mobile Code * User/system authentication * World Wide Web security Paper submissions are due September 9, 1997. For more detailed information: - Visit the USENIX website at: http://www.usenix.org/sec - Read comp.org.usenix - Send email to our automatic mailserver at: info@usenix.org Your message should contain the line: "send security conferences" ================================================================= The USENIX Association brings together the community of engineers, system administrators, scientists, and technicians working on the cutting edge of computing. Its technical conferences are the essential meeting grounds for the presentation and discussion of the most advanced information on new developments in all aspects of advanced computing systems.
From: schwarz@physik.tu-berlin.de (Georg Schwarz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:23:35 +0200 Organization: Institut f. Theoretische Physik, TU Berlin Message-ID: <19970611212335461585@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Norstad <j-norstad@nwu.edu> wrote: > I understand that Apple has a server engineering team devoted to solving > the problems in NeXTStep for server use. There will be separate server and > workstation versions of Rhapsody, like Windows NT. Servers are definitely > one of their target markets for the initial versions of Rhapsody. For > example, the server version will support spanning, striping, and mirroring > file systems, and the core OS will be tuned for server use. I suscept that the "core OS" will the identical for both the "server" and "desktop" version though, won't it? -- Georg Schwarz schwarz@physik.tu-berlin.de, kuroi@cs.tu-berlin.de Institut für Theoretische Physik +49 30 314-24254, FAX -21130 Technische Universität Berlin http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
From: gideon@csarc.otago.ac.nz (Gideon King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: How to buy OmniWeb Licenses? Date: 10 Jun 1997 23:22:17 GMT Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, NZ Message-ID: <5nknj9$5qi$1@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> I am wanting to buy more OmniWeb licenses, but can't figure out how to get to the right person. I gather that lighthouse are selling the licenses, so I sent email to OmniWeb@lighthouse.com, and got back a message from supportpolicy@lighthouse.com with lots of info about bug reporting etc. I tried to look at their FAQ pages in two different ways, but never got any response. I tried to reply to supportpolicy, but that mail bounced. I can't find anything useful on their web site about anything except JavaPlan. Can someone please tell me how to buy OmniWeb licenses? Thanks. --- Gideon King | Phone +64-3-479 9017 Acting Manager | Fax +64-3-479 8529 The Black Albatross | University of Otago | Computer Science Applied | e-mail gideon@csarc.otago.ac.nz Research Centre | NeXT mail, MIME ok. PGP key available. Department of Computer Science | P.O. Box 56 | I don't have a solution Dunedin | but I admire the problem. New Zealand | WWW access: http://www.csarc.otago.ac.nz:805/
From: cejensen@bitstream.net (Christian Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT laser printer toner cartidge? Date: 12 Jun 1997 01:33:50 GMT Organization: Bitstream Underground Message-ID: <5nnjlu$qu3$1@maryj.bitstream.net> References: <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com> In-Reply-To: <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com> On 06/10/97, Subir Grewal wrote: >I can't seem to reach peanuts.leo.org from here, so I thought I'd ask >whether anyone knew what toner cartridges NeXT laser printers would >take. Straight from TJL's printer FAQ: :Toner cartridge for HP Laserjet II, IID,III, IID :HP ref : HP 92295A (that is what you will see on the box) -- ******************************** Chris Jensen cejensen@bitstream.net MIME, NeXTMail OK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT laser printer toner cartidge? References: <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com> Organization: University of Calgary CPSC From: hill@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (David Hill) Message-ID: <339e4aa6.0@news.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Date: 11 Jun 97 06:50:14 GMT In article <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com>, Subir Grewal <hostmaster@trill-home.com> wrote: >I can't seem to reach peanuts.leo.org from here, so I thought I'd ask >whether anyone knew what toner cartridges NeXT laser printers would >take. > >-- >hostmaster@trill-home.com + Lynx 2.7.1 + NeXT/PGP mail + www.crl.com/~subir/ >Parts that positively cannot be assembled in improper order will be. It takes a standard EPS toner cartridge (same as Apple laser writer) david --- -- David R. Hill, CS & Psych Depts., U. Calgary | Imagination is more Calgary, AB, Canada T2N 1N4 Ph: 604-947-9362 | important than knowledge. hill@cpsc.ucalgary.ca OR david@firethorne.com| (Albert Einstein) http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~hill (^NeXTMail)| Kill your television!
From: decoy_id@no_junk_on_the.net (L e e Altenberg) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 12 Jun 1997 03:46:36 GMT Organization: MHPCC Message-ID: <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <19970611212335461585@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: schwarz@physik.tu-berlin.de In <19970611212335461585@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> Georg Schwarz wrote: > John Norstad <j-norstad@nwu.edu> wrote: > > > > I understand that Apple has a server engineering team devoted to solving > > the problems in NeXTStep for server use. There will be separate server and > > workstation versions of Rhapsody, like Windows NT. Servers are definitely > > one of their target markets for the initial versions of Rhapsody. For > > example, the server version will support spanning, striping, and mirroring > > file systems, and the core OS will be tuned for server use. > > I suscept that the "core OS" will the identical for both the "server" > and "desktop" version though, won't it? > Could anyone explain why an OS optimized for use as a server would not also be optimal for a workstation? -- ======================================================================= Lee Altenberg, Ph.D. Research Affiliate, University of Hawai`i at Manoa Office: Maui High Performance Computing Center 550 Lipoa Parkway, Suite 100, Kihei, Maui HI 96753 Phone: (808) 879-5077 x 296 (work), (808) 879-5018 (fax) E-mail: altenXber@mhpXcc.edu <Delete the "X"s; done to stop junk e-mail> Web: http://pueo.mhpcc.edu/~Xaltenber/ <Delete the "X"> =======================================================================
From: "Quang Ngo" <quang@calwest.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Install NeXTSTEP 3.3 on a Pentium 90Mhz w/o Floppy Date: 12 Jun 1997 04:42:28 GMT Organization: Call America Internet Services +1 (800) 563-3271 Message-ID: <01bc76ea$c1a56c80$f7663cd1@jaguar> Something went wrong with my motherboard - everything works fine except the floppy drive. The floppy drive and controller card work fine on a different system. Anyway, is it possible to install NeXTSTEP 3.3 without a floppy drive? The image files (boot and drivers) are on www.next.com. But looks like they're no help without a floppy drive. Any ideas? -Quang
From: jon@haveman.org (Jon Haveman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 12 Jun 1997 04:41:38 GMT Organization: Purdue University Message-ID: <5nnum2$h9j@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> References: <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> L e e Altenberg writes > Could anyone explain why an OS optimized for use as a server would not > also be optimal for a workstation? I'm guessing that the world would be a better place if everybody had server-quality versions on their desk, but that Apple's profits will be higher because of their ability to price discriminate between those willing to pay more significant sums for the added ability and those not. That is, charging a higher price for ther server version and a lower price for the Joe-blow version makes them mo-money. -- Jon Haveman
From: 38433@ix93384.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Product Annoucement Date: 12 Jun 1997 07:10:05 GMT Organization: Internet Relay Message-ID: <5no7cd$olp$70@nw001.infi.net> Hey, just thought i'd share with everyone, I found a site with loads of nude CHEERLEADERs. The address is: http://www.mid-night.com/cheer.htm --Jason-- (Sorry for the intrusion, everyone needs some short skirts in their life) P.S. They also have a few thounsand celebrities but im not into that.
From: 38433@ix93384.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Date: 12 Jun 1997 07:10:05 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5no7cd$olp$70@nw001.infi.net> Subject: cmsg cancel <5no7cd$olp$70@nw001.infi.net> Control: cancel <5no7cd$olp$70@nw001.infi.net> Organization: Usenet Canal Historique ECP/EMP aka SPAM or pyramidal scheme (MMF) cancelled by bofh@keltia.freenix.fr. It may also be an image too small for newsbot to be activated. See report in news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Date: Thu Jun 12 13:34:13 1997 Original subject was: Product Annoucement
From: Andrew Tomazos <andrew@stairways.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Mail.app] How do you append a signature Date: 12 Jun 1997 08:51:47 GMT Organization: Stairways Software Message-ID: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> How do you set-up your signature when sending e-mail from Mail.app? I am running OpenStep 4.2 Andrew. -- ________________________________ Andrew Tomazos PLG Mac Programmer (PowerPlant) Stairways Software <http://www.stairways.com/> <mailto:andrew@stairways.com.au> <phone:+61-411-310-989>
From: "Timothy J. Luoma" <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: How to buy OmniWeb Licenses? Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:02:35 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970612090008.4915B-100000@cc344191-a> References: <5nknj9$5qi$1@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Gideon King <gideon@csarc.otago.ac.nz> cc: kc@omnigroup.com In-Reply-To: <5nknj9$5qi$1@celebrian.otago.ac.nz> On 10 Jun 1997, Gideon King wrote: > Can someone please tell me how to buy OmniWeb licenses? Unfortunately, it is one of the larger mysteries of life at the moment.... if anyone knows it would be someone @omnigroup.com... I've CC'd this message to Ken Case, who will no doubt be more helpful than Lighthouse's JavaPage TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html sed 's/End\ of\ sig/pithy\ quotation/g'
From: Evan M Benoit <benoit+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Network processes when logged out Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:34:46 -0400 Organization: Sophomore, Social & Decision Sciences, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <cnc0Y6K00iVC02mMw0@andrew.cmu.edu> Hey Everyone, I've run into a snag trying to get this network monitoring application to work on a NeXT box. The application is called Big Brother, and what it does is check the disk space and processes running on the machine it runs on (a NeXT box) and send the results over the network to the server (some unix box). It sends updated information every 5 minutes. My problem is, when I'm logged into the NeXT box it works fine, but when I log out, it stops updating its stats on the server. The process is still running on the client, though. When I log back into the NeXT box, it resumes updating, like nothing had happened. It's weird, and it hasn't happened on any other OS's I've ran this thing on. Can anyone out there give me a hand? Is there some interuption of network functions when the user logs out? Any way to work around that? Any wild guesses? Thanks a lot! -ev ---EVAN BENOIT--- loved by good feared by evil
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:21:44 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-1206971121440001@199.166.204.230> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <5nmfjt$9423@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> In article <5nmfjt$9423@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>, tph@rmi.net wrote: > John Norstad (j-norstad@nwu.edu) wrote: > : example, the server version will support spanning, striping, and mirroring This is interesting (sorry about the reply to the reply guys). Does anyone know how this is being offered? AIX's drive management system perhaps (it's very good), Veritas maybe? Maury
From: cwolf@wolfware.com (Christopher Wolf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 12 Jun 1997 17:14:30 GMT Organization: WolfWare Message-ID: <5npapm$k9j$1@vader.wolfware.ipc.net> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <5nmfjt$9423@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <maury-1206971121440001@199.166.204.230> In-Reply-To: <maury-1206971121440001@199.166.204.230> On 06/12/97, Maury Markowitz wrote: >In article <5nmfjt$9423@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>, tph@rmi.net wrote: > >> John Norstad (j-norstad@nwu.edu) wrote: >> : example, the server version will support spanning, striping, and mirroring > > This is interesting (sorry about the reply to the reply guys). Does >anyone know how this is being offered? AIX's drive management system >perhaps (it's very good), Veritas maybe? > >Maury I don't think anyone knows yet (even at Apple). At WWDC these were listed as features that they thought were important for the server version but they emphasized that they had not yet begun even looking at how they were actually going to be implemented. - Chris -- _______________________________________________________________________ Christopher A. Wolf -- WolfWare -- NeXTSTEP/OpenStep/Rhapsody Developer For info about NewsFlash the lightning fast NeXTSTEP news-reader visit our newly revised web site at: http://www.wolfware.com _______________________________________________________________________
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Mail.app] How do you append a signature Date: 12 Jun 1997 20:01:02 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5npkhu$ajb$1@news.digifix.com> References: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> In-Reply-To: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> On 06/12/97, Andrew Tomazos wrote: >How do you set-up your signature when sending e-mail from Mail.app? > >I am running OpenStep 4.2 > You want to grab a copy of the EnhanceMail bundle from ftp.next.peak.org It's a plug-in for Mail.app that adds that feature and a whole lot more.. -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
From: quinlan@intergate.bc.ca (Brian Quinlan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:43:17 -0700 Organization: Internet Gateway Corporation Message-ID: <quinlan-1206971443170001@pm14s11.intergate.bc.ca> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <19970611212335461585@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> In article <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu>, decoy_id@no_junk_on_the.net (L e e Altenberg) wrote: > Could anyone explain why an OS optimized for use as a server would not > also be optimal for a workstation? The schedualer might need to be different to give priority to interactive processes. Server processes tend to block on IO frequently but a lot of GUI applications do not. Probably other stuff. -- Brian Quinlan quinlan@intergate.bc.ca
From: dnelson@slip.net (Dru Nelson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 12 Jun 1997 23:41:19 GMT Organization: Slip.Net (http://www.slip.net) Message-ID: <5nq1ev$c85$1@owl> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <5nmfjt$9423@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <maury-1206971121440001@199.166.204.230> IBM doesn't use veritas, and yes it is good. sun is going to use veritas, but who knows what NeXT will use.... Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: > This is interesting (sorry about the reply to the reply guys). Does > anyone know how this is being offered? AIX's drive management system > perhaps (it's very good), Veritas maybe? > Maury
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc From: Don McGregor <mcgredo@NOSPAM.stl.nps.navy.mil> Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <33A0D544.58CB@NOSPAM.stl.nps.navy.mil> Sender: news@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Naval Postgraduate School References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <19970611212335461585@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> <quinlan-1206971443170001@pm14s11.intergate.bc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:06:12 GMT Brian Quinlan wrote: > > In article <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu>, decoy_id@no_junk_on_the.net > (L e e Altenberg) wrote: > > > Could anyone explain why an OS optimized for use as a server would not > > also be optimal for a workstation? > > The schedualer might need to be different to give priority to interactive > processes. Server processes tend to block on IO frequently but a lot of > GUI applications do not. Probably other stuff. In most flavors of Unix there are a bunch of tables in the kernel for things like process table slots and filesystem buffers. The tables are constant size; you can set them small at boot time, and take up less memory, or set them big, so they can handle anything you throw at them, but also suck up memory. What a "reasonable" table size is differs for personal workstations and servers, since they have vastly different usage profiles. A workstation usually won't be serving up some high-traffic NFS mounts or dealing with a big news feed, so configuring a workstation as if it will handle these tasks is a waste of hardware. Usually it's no big deal to change the kernel parameters; many unices have kernel directories that let users recompile and relink the kernel with modified parameters. Mach isn't quite Unix, but I presume the ideas are the same. Microsoft famously ships NT "Workstation" and NT "Server", the difference in the kernels consisting only of a couple modifications to kernel tuning parameters and several hundred dollars in retail price. With a little smoke and mirrors (aka "market segementation"), Microsoft is able to add a few megabucks to Bill's bank account. -- Don McGregor mcgredo@stl.nps.navy.mil http://www.stl.nps.navy.mil/~mcgredo
From: Julie <Julie@fsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.music.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.misc,comp.os.os2.setup.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,fj.misc,fj.news.group.misc Subject: Teen Facials !!!!!! Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:54:45 -0400 Organization: Institute for Global Communications Sender: roselle@igc.apc.org Message-ID: <33A0EEB5.3754@fsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teen Facials !!!!!! http://www.pornomaster.com/cct http://www.pornomaster.com/cct Teen Models Nude XXX Pictures Giving Blowjobs To Older Men Swallowing Every Ounce Of Their Jizz J Exclusive XXX Sex Pictures Of Young Virgin Girls With Sizzling Juicy Little Pussies! XXX Teen Blowjob CHAT ROOMS! FREE XXX SEARCH ENGINE TO OVER 1,300 FREE WEBSITES! FREE XXX Rated Photos From Hundreds Of Other Websites For Your Viewing Pleasure FREE XXX CD ROMS of Teens 18 & over Nude & Uncensored !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.pornomaster.com/cct http://www.pornomaster.com/cct
From: Julie <Julie@fsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.misc,comp.os.os2.setup.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,fj.misc,fj.news.group.misc,fj.rec.misc Subject: Orgasmic18&19yr.olds!!! Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 03:24:25 -0400 Organization: Institute for Global Communications Sender: roselle@igc.apc.org Message-ID: <33A0F5A9.251B@fsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Orgasmic18&19yr.olds!!! http://www.pornomaster.com/cct http://www.pornomaster.com/cct Teen Models Nude XXX Pictures Giving Blowjobs To Older Men Swallowing Every Ounce Of Their Jizz J Exclusive XXX Sex Pictures Of Young Virgin Girls With Sizzling Juicy Little Pussies! XXX Teen Blowjob CHAT ROOMS! FREE XXX SEARCH ENGINE TO OVER 1,300 FREE WEBSITES! FREE XXX Rated Photos From Hundreds Of Other Websites For Your Viewing Pleasure FREE XXX CD ROMS of Teens 18 & over Nude & Uncensored !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.pornomaster.com/cct http://www.pornomaster.com/cct
From: Andrew Tomazos <andrew@stairways.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Mail.app] How do you check your mail with telnet. Date: 13 Jun 1997 07:53:32 GMT Organization: Stairways Software Message-ID: <5nqu9s$71b$1@opera.iinet.net.au> References: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> <5npkhu$ajb$1@news.digifix.com> sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: >On 06/12/97, Andrew Tomazos wrote: >>How do you set-up your signature when sending e-mail from Mail.app? >> >>I am running OpenStep 4.2 >> > You want to grab a copy of the EnhanceMail bundle from >ftp.next.peak.org Thanks, done that. Is there anyway to check my mail remotely in a telnet session? (ie check the same Active.mbox as Mail.app uses) ...with a program like pine or elm? Will the read/unread/deleted status of various pieces of mail be shared between Mail.app and the shell application? Andrew. _______________________________________________________ Andrew Tomazos PLG <mailto:andrew@stairways.com.au> Mac Programmer (PowerPlant) <phone:+61-411-310-989> Stairways Software Pty Ltd <http://www.stairways.com/> "Resistance is not futile."
From: jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: 3.3 or 4.x? Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 02:34:35 -0700 Organization: Arizona State University Message-ID: <jak-1306970234350001@ss7-16.inre.asu.edu> Apologies for the newbie question: I'm planning to get a mono turbo slab, and I'll be using it for some light web/ftp serving, print serving (to a small Mac network), and hopefully for developing. But I'm wondering: What version of NS should I get? What are the differences between 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, (which I guess is the minimum I should get) and 4.x? Rhapsody is supposed to be a superset of NS, so I can develop now on black hardware and recompiling will be all that's necessary, right? Will stuff I develop in 3.3 carry over, or would I have to have 4.x? I've been looking through the www resources for OS version comparisons, but haven't found anything. If someone could point me to a resource with the answer, or just tell me, I'd appreciate it. Oh yeah, and cost is a factor. If you have NS Developer (or even User) to sell, I'll consider buying it. thanks john -- --- - ------- ------- The real in us is silent; the acquired is talkative. - Kahlil Gibran jak@asu.edu http://www.public.asu.edu/~jkestner/
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill@bofh.int> Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.music.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.misc,comp.os.os2.setup.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,fj.misc,fj.news.group.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <33A0EEB5.3754@fsu.edu> Control: cancel <33A0EEB5.3754@fsu.edu> Date: 13 Jun 1997 13:24:21 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.33A0EEB5.3754@fsu.edu> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill@bofh.int> Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.misc,comp.os.os2.setup.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,fj.misc,fj.news.group.misc,fj.rec.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <33A0F5A9.251B@fsu.edu> Control: cancel <33A0F5A9.251B@fsu.edu> Date: 13 Jun 1997 13:26:26 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.33A0F5A9.251B@fsu.edu> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: neuss@informatik.th-darmstadt.de.nospam (Christian Neuss) Newsgroups: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Conversion from WriteNow 2.0 to WinWord7 Followup-To: de.comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Date: 13 Jun 1997 14:45:54 GMT Organization: Technische Hochschule Darmstadt Message-ID: <5nrmf2$9o2$2@news.th-darmstadt.de> References: <5nmg5s$2a0e@alijku04.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at> Peter Pregler (Peter.Pregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at) wrote: > we have the following problem. We use WriteNow 2.0 and want to change > to WinWord 7. The problem is of cause that we want to convert or files > or at least have some way to convert things on demand. Principally, > one can export RFT from WriteNow but that does export things in the > NeXT character set so German umlaute are not exported correctly. Why anybody would want to move to WinWord 7 is beyond me.. However, there's a simple fix to your problem. Store to RTF and run the RTF file through the following Perl script: #!/usr/local/bin/perl -p s/\331/\344/g; s/\366/\374/g; s/\360/\366/g; s/\205/\304/g; s/\226/\326/g; s/\232/\334/g; s/\373/\337/g; You could also use the Gnu "recode" program. Again, my humble advice is to avoid WinWord if at all possible. While other Microsoft products exist that are quite usable, WinWord can be a real PIA for editing anything beyond a short 4 page letter. Your mileage may vary. Regards, Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.nexttoyou.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
From: Julie <Julie@fsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.music.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.winsock.misc,comp.os.os2.setup.misc,comp.protocols.kermit.misc,comp.protocols.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,fj.misc,fj.news.group.misc Subject: Cancel "Teen Facials !!!!!!" Control: cancel <33A0EEB5.3754@fsu.edu> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:11:55 GMT Organization: MOWC (Masters of Whoopee Cushions) Message-ID: <33a36334.42620214@news.wizards.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ADDRESS ALTERED TO FOIL SPAMMERS: See below for address... Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin-at-wizards-dot-net http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..."
From: John Eric Ivancich <ivancich@quip.eecs.umich.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 13 Jun 1997 13:00:04 -0400 Organization: University of Michigan EECS Department Message-ID: <yvx2066h20b.fsf@quip.eecs.umich.edu> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <*jc-2305972243290001@192.0.2.1> <338DB457.2579@abacus.com> <5ndo6o$d4n@slip.net> <cdoutyEBJpJs.64@netcom.com> <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-1006972343570001@bmrip01.mdacc.tmc.edu> <j-norstad-1106970817050001@legume186154.nuts.nwu.edu> <19970611212335461585@marconi.physik.tu-berlin.de> <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> <quinlan-1206971443170001@pm14s11.intergate.bc.ca> <33A0D544.58CB@NOSPAM.stl.nps.navy.mil> Don McGregor <mcgredo@NOSPAM.stl.nps.navy.mil> writes: > In most flavors of Unix there are a bunch of tables in the kernel > for things like process table slots and filesystem buffers. The > tables are constant size; you can set them small at boot time, and > take up less memory, or set them big, so they can handle anything you > throw at them, but also suck up memory. What a "reasonable" table size > is differs for personal workstations and servers, since they have > vastly different usage profiles. A workstation usually won't be > serving up some high-traffic NFS mounts or dealing with a big > news feed, so configuring a workstation as if it will handle > these tasks is a waste of hardware. > > Usually it's no big deal to change > the kernel parameters; many unices have kernel directories that let > users > recompile and relink the kernel with modified parameters. What about an adaptive scheme? As the OS runs, the kernel makes note of the typical useage of various tables (e.g., on average the process table is 30% full), along with maximum usage, minimum usage etc. The kernel then figures out a good size for these tables to take effect on the next boot. Obviously if this were done, the tables would have to be allocated dynamically at boot to circumvent the need for a recompile/relink. Eric P.S. I hate spam.
From: Subir Grewal <hostmaster@trill-home.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT laser printer toner cartidge? Date: 13 Jun 1997 19:17:42 GMT Organization: Trill host selection council Message-ID: <5ns6cm$lvi$1@nnrp1.crl.com> References: <5nkome$6ca$1@nnrp1.crl.com> <5nnjlu$qu3$1@maryj.bitstream.net> Thanks to everybody, I bought an HP95A and it works fine. -- hostmaster@trill-home.com + Lynx 2.7.1 + NeXT/PGP mail + www.crl.com/~subir/ If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong.
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Mail.app] How do you check your mail with telnet. Date: 13 Jun 1997 19:27:53 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5ns6vp$94n$1@news.digifix.com> References: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> <5npkhu$ajb$1@news.digifix.com> <5nqu9s$71b$1@opera.iinet.net.au> In-Reply-To: <5nqu9s$71b$1@opera.iinet.net.au> On 06/12/97, Andrew Tomazos wrote: >sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: >>On 06/12/97, Andrew Tomazos wrote: >>>How do you set-up your signature when sending e-mail from Mail.app? >>> >>>I am running OpenStep 4.2 >>> >> You want to grab a copy of the EnhanceMail bundle from >>ftp.next.peak.org > >Thanks, done that. > > >Is there anyway to check my mail remotely in a telnet session? (ie check the >same Active.mbox as Mail.app uses) ...with a program like pine or elm? Will >the read/unread/deleted status of various pieces of mail be shared between >Mail.app and the shell application? > If you aren't logged in to the Workspace on that machine your email gets left in the spool directory, and isn't moved to Active.mbox. In this case you can use your conventional mail reader to access it. At one time there was a Text only version of mail.app... I have no idea where it has gotten to though. -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
From: luomat@peak.org (Timothy J. Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: cmsg cancel <5ns28e$88n$2@bashir.peak.org> Control: cancel <5ns28e$88n$2@bashir.peak.org> Date: 13 Jun 1997 18:11:33 GMT Organization: Public Electronic Access to Knowlege,Inc Message-ID: <5ns2gl$88n$3@bashir.peak.org>
From: spammers@ruin.the.internet.channelu.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: resolv.conf again? Date: 14 Jun 1997 02:23:36 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: <5nsvb8$37h$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970609221342.9152A-100000@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu> Cc: kaczorek@students.uiuc.edu In <Pine.SOL.3.91.970609221342.9152A-100000@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu> andrew david kaczorek wrote: > I'm also having a problem guess-configuring my NextStation. I've got two > machines on this network as a test...oldtimer.morris.net (486 running > linux) and badboy.morris.net (running ns 3.2). I'm trying to get the > next to work right. > > As of now, the next will work if i type "ping oldtimer" or "ping badboy" > or even "ping localhost". But if i type "ping badboy.morris.net" it will > not work. I have the following line in my resolv.conf > > domain morris.net > > my hostconfig file calls the next "badboy" and gives it ip addres > 150.150.150.2 wheras "oldtimer" is 150.150.150.1. > > I also added badboy and oldtimer in the netinfo using hostmanager. i am > completely ignorant about how the UNIX and GUI work together/against each > other in this situation. I have no books....no man pages....no more ideas. > > So I'd really be floored if I could get help about this. Please respond > via email as well since I cannot check this grroup frequently. thanks. > > andrew > I would say that if you have even the remotest interest in learning about networking that you obtain the latest O"Reilly DNS book. It is an excellent resource and will answer all your questions. What you have to decide is whether your going to run your own dns (named) server or not. If you choose to do so you'll have to decide which box(s?) to run it on. If you choose not to use dns then each machine will have to have all host information in /etc/hosts on each platform & resolv.conf should look something like hostresorder local domain morris.net Randy rencsok at channelu dot com
From: nurban@sps1.phys.vt.edu (Nathan Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Mail.app] How do you check your mail with telnet. Date: 13 Jun 1997 22:40:03 -0400 Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Message-ID: <5nt0a3$gnr@sps1.phys.vt.edu> References: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> <5npkhu$ajb$1@news.digifix.com> <5nqu9s$71b$1@opera.iinet.net.au> <5ns6vp$94n$1@news.digifix.com> In article <5ns6vp$94n$1@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: > >Is there anyway to check my mail remotely in a telnet session? (ie > check the same Active.mbox as Mail.app uses) Somewhat related question.. I'm using elm to read my my remotely, by opening Active.mbox/mbox and such as a folder. I'd like to have the ability, though, to delete things from a folder _while_ Mail.app is running. This introduces file locking issues and would require the table of contents to somehow be rebuild? Can I use those mailapp utilities I remember seeing announced? (Actually, even more than being able to delete messages, I'd like to have elm save outgoing mail in Mail.app's Outgoing.mbox, preferably while Mail.app is running.)
From: skwong@mae.cuhk.hk (Wong Sai-kee) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Is the U-SCSI, SCSI-3 HD compatible in Black NeXTcube turbo ? Date: 14 Jun 1997 10:13:37 GMT Organization: Engineering Faculty CUHK Message-ID: <5ntqsh$crp@eng-ser1.erg.cuhk.edu.hk> My Fujitsu 1GB HD was damaged (it hang me around for over 1 yr). I sourced some drives in HK: Quantum TM3200S Fireball Series Ultra SCSI 3.2GB US$327 Segate ST-52160N Medalist Series U-SCSI 2.1GB US$248 Segate ST-51080N Medalist Series SCSI-2 1GB US$200 I found there are many terms like Ultra-Wide SCSI, SCSI-3, ... Are the new technologies compatible with NeXTcube ? It seems the Segate 2.1GB is far cost effective than the 1GB but does it work with the NeXT ? Thanks in advance. Mr.Sai-Kee Wong
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: 3.3 or 4.x? Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <EBqGCo.IHH@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:14:48 GMT References: <jak-1306970234350001@ss7-16.inre.asu.edu> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <jak-1306970234350001@ss7-16.inre.asu.edu>, John Kestner <jak@asu.edu> wrote: > >But I'm wondering: What version of NS should I get? What are the >differences between 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, (which I guess is the minimum I >should get) and 4.x? 3.2 is the bare minimum you should get, with 3.3 perferable. 4.x (4.2 preferably) should be OK on a Turbo machine as long as you put 64MB or more RAM in it. >Rhapsody is supposed to be a superset of NS, so I can develop now on black >hardware and recompiling will be all that's necessary, right? Will stuff I >develop in 3.3 carry over, or would I have to have 4.x? > Well, it's hard to say exactly what will be required in addition to a recompile. But, at a minimum, your code must be OPENSTEP-based, not NeXTSTEP-based. In that case 4.x is the only way to go. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: Tony Scott<summer@laoffices.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Distributors Wanted NOW!! Date: 14 Jun 1997 15:07:01 GMT Organization: World Wide Pants Promotion Message-ID: <5nuc2l$84p$7661@cadmium.aware.nl> Hi, This is a Solicitation Email, we are looking for new TUFF'97 DISTRIBUTORS. TUFF'97 is a promotional concept for a prospect follow-up system called "Simple Track". Software designed for Windows 95, 3.11 and NT machines. (Macintosh users read the NOTE below(*)) Concept: The TUFF'97 software includes a copy of Simple Track, so you can use this for your own personal administration (free). However, the TUFF'97 software is designed to give you BIG TIME credits for just taking the efforts to PROMOTE it. How do I get those credits?. Easy, just distribute/promote it. How? (Give away the software for free, put it on your website/homepage and let everyone download it. Give it to your friends, attach it by email etc). With a one time $40.00 (USD) validation code purchase, YOUR name becomes part of all sofware you sent out to your customers. When your TUFF'97 software gets validated, all your personal information is automatically integrated in the software, so everyone knows how to reach you by phone/fax or email and where to sent the check/money or cash orders. Basically this is the concept. Offcourse you need the software to grasp the whole thing. Believe it, there is absolutely no marketing knowledge required, just ask for the software package, join and start promoting your own TUFF'97 line. The only thing you DO need is a PC or Mac(*) and Internet. (*) TUFF'97 is only available for MacOS users running Connectix VirtualPC or Insignia's Sofwindows 95/3.11. A true MacOS version is not available. When you're interested in becoming a TUFF'97 distributor and create your own distribution line, sent a mailto:FiReStArTeR@frodo.com and ask for your copy of the TUFF software (We'll sent you a download location and install instructions). This is a serious opportunity, so only serious responses are processed. If you're not interested, have a nice day. Best Regards, Tony Scott Worldwide Pants Promotions 24H Support/Download requests, mailto:FiReStArTeR@frodo.com voice:(+01)779 698 4655 Fax :(+01)779 698 4555
From: sef@kithrup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5nbtf7$2q5@inout.beachnet.com> Date: 7 Jun 1997 20:31:09 GMT Control: cancel <5nbtf7$2q5@inout.beachnet.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5nbtf7$2q5@inout.beachnet.com> Sender: sales@gclounge.com Spam cancelled by sef@kithrup.com
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5nuc2l$84p$7661@cadmium.aware.nl> Date: 14 Jun 1997 17:40:05 GMT Control: cancel <5nuc2l$84p$7661@cadmium.aware.nl> Message-ID: <cancel.5nuc2l$84p$7661@cadmium.aware.nl> Sender: Tony Scott<summer@laoffices.com> Spam cancelled. Notice ID: 19970614.03. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce or http://spam.ohww.norman.ok.us/spam_notices/19970614.03.html for complete report. Original Subject: Distributors Wanted NOW!!
From: gregor@crosslink.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Zip acting mighty peculiar Date: 13 Jun 1997 03:19:45 GMT Organization: CrossLink Internet Services Message-ID: <5nqe8h$jjj$1@kronos.crosslink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has anyone had good luck with using a Zip drive on a slab? I hooked my new one up, and (maybe coincidentally) trashed a hard drive at the end of the boot up process. Also, I copied a couple of progams to the Zip, and when I double clicked the prog an the Zip drive, instead of the program icon, there was an icon of the NeXT monitor with a big 'ol question mark in the middle of it. To complicate matters, I booted up into Mc mode via Daydream, and the strangeness continues. I'm rather skeptical of this thing, maybe because of the Mac type 50 pin connectors and the "internal termination" on the box. Anyone have any thoughts on this device? Regards Greg
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <14012865742421@digifix.com> Date: 15 Jun 1997 03:57:19 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <3108866347221@digifix.com> Topics include: Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site eduSTEP WWW site NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site comp.sys.next newsgroups related newsgroups comp.sys.next newsgroups mailing list ftp sites NeXTanswers Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site =============================================== This online community resource includes - ISV company pages - ISV product descriptions - NEXTSTEP Developer Directory - NEXTSTEP Community WhitePages - Mailing List archives and information You can connect via the world wide web at: http://www.stepwise.com/ Suggestions or comments can be directed to me at sanguish@digifix.com If you would like to get your company and product information on Stepwise, please contact me at sanguish@digifix.com. eduSTEP WWW site ================ http://www.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/eduStep/ eduStep aims to provide up-to-date information on: - NextStep tools and projects for scientists. - Third-party products interesting for the educational and scientific community (with educational discounts noted, where they exist). - A listing of resellers and shops interested in working with customers in the educational community. - Conferences, meetings, workshops - Major projects, such as SciTools, EMBL's project to develop a NextStep scientific work environment - Status reports on GNUStep, a freely-available implementation of OpenStep now being developed NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site ============================ http://www.next.com comp.sys.next.* newsgroups ========================== news:comp.sys.next.advocacy This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. news:comp.sys.next.announce Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. news:comp.sys.next.bugs A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT- specific groups as well. news:comp.sys.next.hardware Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. news:comp.sys.next.marketplace NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. news:comp.sys.next.misc For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! news:comp.sys.next.programmer Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. news:comp.sys.next.software This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. news:comp.sys.next.sysadmin Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. Related Newsgroups ================== news:comp.soft-sys.nextstep Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. news:comp.lang.objective-c Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. news:comp.object Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com The ftp sites ============= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org - The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de: - (Peanuts) Located in Germany. ftp://ftp.dn.net/pub/next - Peanuts mirror in the US ftp://terra.stack.urc.tue.nl - (Dutch NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it - (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next - eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: - See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: beatty@netcom.com (Derek Lee Beatty) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody features? Date: 14 Jun 1997 04:40:16 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: <5nt7bh$9q0@beatty.slip.netcom.com> References: <5lvn4l$tje@src-news.pa.dec.com> <3385FA0F.5439@abacus.com> <5nnres$390$2@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> decoy_id@no_junk_on_the.net (L e e Altenberg) wrote: >Could anyone explain why an OS optimized for use as a server would not >also be optimal for a workstation? To be concise but rather general: - On a workstation, you want to respond to the user with low latency. - On a server, you want to maximize overall throughput. -- Derek Lee Beatty _ Death beatty@netcom.com _| ~-, Taxes Austin, Texas \, * } C++ \_(
From: Frederic SAVOIR <fsavoir@dial.oleane.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: My original Openstep Device Drivers Disk Prerelease 4.2 is dead ! Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:20:05 +0200 Organization: Guest of OLEANE - PIPEX International Message-ID: <33A3B3C5.FE84924F@dial.oleane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I received my Openstep for Mach (Intel) 4.2 prerelease 2 (Prelude to Rhapsody) but my second floppy disk is dead which is the Openstep device drivers disk prerelease 2.... Thus I can't install the software... If some got the same disk and could send it to me by Email (in raw format) or if someone knows where to get it.. please let me know because I would like to install it as soon as possible. Sincerely, Fred -- Email: Frederic SAVOIR <fsavoir@dialup.fdn.fr>
From: bucho@bellatlantic.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Mo Cheerleaders Date: 15 Jun 1997 08:58:36 GMT Organization: Liv Net Message-ID: <5o0ars$go1$151@nw001.infi.net> Hey, just thought i'd share with everyone, I found a site with loads of nude CHEERLEADERs. The address is: http://www.mid-night.com --Jason-- (Sorry for the intrusion, everyone needs some short skirts in their life) P.S. They also a have spanish / latina women archive
From: bucho@bellatlantic.net Organization: Liv Net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5o0ars$go1$151@nw001.infi.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5o0ars$go1$151@nw001.infi.net> Control: cancel <5o0ars$go1$151@nw001.infi.net> References: <5o0ars$go1$151@nw001.infi.net> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 11:04:12 +1 EMP/ECP spam cancelled by hweede@berlin.snafu.de. This is an ongoing spam whose Breidbart index already is above 20. See my report "www.mid-night.com" or "summary of auto-cancellations" in news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Subject was: Mo Cheerleaders.
From: luomat@peak.org (Timothy J. Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Mail.app] How do you check your mail with telnet. Date: 15 Jun 1997 17:23:08 GMT Organization: The PEAK FTP Archive for NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Message-ID: <5o18ds$68v$5@bashir.peak.org> References: <5nodb3$2d$6@opera.iinet.net.au> <5npkhu$ajb$1@news.digifix.com> <5nqu9s$71b$1@opera.iinet.net.au> <5ns6vp$94n$1@news.digifix.com> <5nt0a3$gnr@sps1.phys.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: nurban@sps1.phys.vt.edu In <5nt0a3$gnr@sps1.phys.vt.edu> Nathan Urban wrote: > In article <5ns6vp$94n$1@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: > > > >Is there anyway to check my mail remotely in a telnet session? (ie > > check the same Active.mbox as Mail.app uses) > > Somewhat related question.. I'm using elm to read my my remotely, > by opening Active.mbox/mbox and such as a folder. I'd like to have > the ability, though, to delete things from a folder _while_ Mail.app is > running. This introduces file locking issues and would require the table > of contents to somehow be rebuild? Can I use those mailapp utilities > I remember seeing announced? (Actually, even more than being able to > delete messages, I'd like to have elm save outgoing mail in Mail.app's > Outgoing.mbox, preferably while Mail.app is running.) While Mail.app is running is open is OK, but while Active.mbox is not so OK. The problem is that when you get back to Mail.app, the copy of Active.mbox will be outdated. You might try to save or delete a message and find it isn't really there. There is NO good way to do this without using Mail.app itself. If you want, you can close Mail.app from the commandline: kill -QUIT `/bin/ps -auxww| fgrep 'Mail.app/Mail' |\ grep -v grep|awk '{print $2}'` If you delete a message, you should remove the table_of_contents file TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html sed 's/End\ of\ sig/pithy\ quotation/g'
From: ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (younghoon KIL) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody Q&A board written in Korean Date: 15 Jun 1997 23:14:07 GMT Organization: ppai News Message-ID: <5o1svv$msp$1@usenet.kornet.nm.kr> http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/ http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai/qa You can get all info written in Korean about NEXTSTEP. - NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, Rhapsody, Korean Languge Kit. - Graphics: solidThingking, TIFFany, Creat, SuperDraw, Virtuoso, OneVision... - Internet: Omniweb, Gatekeeper, PPP 2.3, HNNews, RadicalNews... - Business, Commuications, Tools, Network, Utilities, Music, Mathematics...etc. Also You can use more than 3,000 pages which written in Korean about NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP. Thanks, younghoon KIL ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (NeXTMail OK) http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai (NEXTSTEP, OPENSTEP Q&A board written in Korean)
From: willadams@aol.com (WillAdams) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Zip acting mighty peculiar Date: 16 Jun 1997 03:04:51 GMT Message-ID: <19970616030400.XAA27380@ladder02.news.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <5nqe8h$jjj$1@kronos.crosslink.net> I've had good luck with mine, check out my web page, http://members.aol.com/willadams for a link to the unofficial Zip/NeXT FAQ page (by Radical Solutions)--I suspect your difficulty is with the termination--I have to turn termination on on my floppy drive, (the next to the last device on the chain--the Zip's the last) to make things work. William William Adams http://members.aol.com/willadams Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
From: andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Need alpha testers for simple DNS helper app Date: 16 Jun 1997 10:30:53 GMT Organization: Omni Development, Inc. Message-ID: <5o34kt$3no$2@gaea.omnigroup.com> I've whipped up a small OPENSTEP app for setting a system's domain name DNS servers, since the configuration apps that come with OPENSTEP don't provide a nice way of doing this. It's an OPENSTEP-only application (and has only been tested on OPENSTEP 4.2pr2). I'm hoping that I can get several alpha testers in the next couple of days so that I can make sure I didn't do anything stupid, after which time I'll make it publically available (including source). Preliminary guess at an open beta release is late this week. Potential alpha testers should be people who deal with /etc/resolv.conf or who set these values via NetInfoManager - typically, people using PPP or people with a lone OPENSTEP box on a non-NetInfo network. You should have some familiarity with what should be happening, so you can confirm whether or not things work as you would expect them to. Also, there's a help document that goes with this app - I'd like people to read over it and make sure that what I wrote 1) makes sense, 2) is correct, 3) doesn't leave gaping holes or lead anyone to screw up their machine. If you fit this profile and are willing to help please send me email. I plan on making this available to alpha testers sometime Monday afternoon. Also, if you are available and potentially willing to localize this app (for free), please note that fact - this app is targeted at new OPENSTEP users (especially the current flood from the Macintosh market), and I'd like the app to be as friendly as possible to other languages. -- andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com - NeXTmail & MIME ok
From: godwin@unixg.ubc.ca (Godwin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Zip acting mighty peculiar Date: 15 Jun 1997 00:42:29 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Message-ID: <5nvdpl$g3i$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <5nqe8h$jjj$1@kronos.crosslink.net> hmmmm no problem with mine.. not a hickcup on any of my NeXT machines.. only problem I see is with NS3.2 machines but it works fine with 3.3 (can't read Mac/ Windowsformatted Zips on 3.2) don't know why.. once upgraded everything is dandy. Godwin gregor@crosslink.net wrote: : Has anyone had good luck with using a Zip drive on a slab? I hooked my new : one up, and (maybe coincidentally) trashed a hard drive at the end of the : boot up process. Also, I copied a couple of progams to the Zip, and when I : double clicked the prog an the Zip drive, instead of the program icon, there : was an icon of the NeXT monitor with a big 'ol question mark in the middle of : it. To complicate matters, I booted up into Mc mode via Daydream, and the : strangeness continues. : I'm rather skeptical of this thing, maybe because of the Mac type 50 pin : connectors and the "internal termination" on the box. Anyone have any : thoughts on this device? : Regards : Greg
From: flickx@mindspring.com (Andre ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next,misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Any of you Professional Next users Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 00:11:43 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <5o4kke$emu@camel12.mindspring.com> Hi to all the pro readers of this News Group. I just got a NeXT slab and I am a "Green-Thumb" a "Newbie" and totally lost. I connected an external 3X NEC SCSI cd-rom to the unit, inserted a disc and wazza it read it, but when I opened the cover (it's manual) and inserted another, I'm still left with the contents of the first. I guess I should shut down (eject equivilence) before I opened the cover but as I said I'm new and don't really know my way around this OS. Is there a book I can buy that can assist me? On another note, the folppy has a disk stuck in it and I don't know how to eject it. I tried the little hole that I suspect is for manual ejecting but I didn't respond. I fear tha I may need another floppy drive. Whare can I get one at a fair price? Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist me in these matters.
From: dental@precipice.com (Rick Sanford) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next,misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Any of you Professional Next users Date: 17 Jun 1997 03:03:16 GMT Organization: Dental Records (R) Message-ID: <5o4upk$gtf@news1-alterdial.uu.net> References: <5o4kke$emu@camel12.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: flickx@mindspring.com In <5o4kke$emu@camel12.mindspring.com> Andre wrote: > Hi to all the pro readers of this News Group. > I just got a NeXT slab and I am a "Green-Thumb" a "Newbie" and totally > lost. > I connected an external 3X NEC SCSI cd-rom to the unit, inserted a > disc and wazza it read it, but when I opened the cover (it's manual) > and inserted another, I'm still left with the contents of the first. NeXT mounts the CD-ROM like a Mac, and like a Mac, you need to go to the menu item for disks and hit eject to pop it out when you're done. you may be fortunate enough to get rid of the errant floppy as well. > I guess I should shut down (eject equivilence) before I opened the cover > but as I said I'm new and don't really know my way around this OS. I hope you don't mean shut down as in reboot? that's a PC-ism not used in NeXT-ville. We _never_ shut down. ;-) > Is there a book I can buy that can assist me? check and see if the on-line docs are there in NextLibrary and make yourself a tall cool one; read and marvel at the fine, clear display you've got there. otherwise, there are many books; try to find "The Comlplete Guide To The NEXTSTEP User Envirnment" by Michael Shebanek, 1993 ISBN 0-387-97956-5, or NeXT's own user guide. check comp.sys.next.announce weekly post of NeXTSTEP resources. > On another note, the folppy has a disk stuck in it and I don't know > how to eject it. I tried the little hole that I suspect is for manual > ejecting but I didn't respond. "just like a Mac" (Apple's new slogan for Rhapsody?) floppies that get confused need a quick poke with a paper clip or similar. if that doesn't work, see if the floppy is recognized by the system. is it on the shelf? is it mounted under the root folder? if not and you're feeling brave, try this: logged in as root, or su'd in termainal.app from root folder: / type this: disk -e /dev/rfd1a display should show something along these lines: localhost:7# disk -e /dev/rfd1a disk name: Sony MPX-111N 2880 disk type: removable_rw_floppy localhost:8# > I fear that I may need another floppy drive. Whare can I get one at a > fair price? check around for a sonyED floppy drive, model id similar to above, but better to use comp.sys.next.marketplace or the various NeXT resellers > Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist me in these matters. > > good luck -- Rick Sanford Dental Records(R) dental@precipice.com NeXTMAIL welcome http://www.dentalrecords.com
From: rflattin@cornut.fr (Roger Flattin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Distribution: world Subject: Question about OPENSTEP Runtime Date: 17 Jun 1997 08:54:16 GMT Message-ID: <3253010398.30081031@cornut.fr> Organization: Cornut Informatique SA On the Prelude to Rhapsody CD, there is a package called "OPENSTEP deployement". It contains 40 Mo of sofware including some BSD Unix commands, a Bourne shell. After installing it, Windows 95 launch the Window Server and the NetName Server process (plus 2 other processes) at boot time which take half a minute at least (and some Mo of RAM). An OpenStep application rely on these processes to handle its user interface. If the runtime is the actual "OPENSTEP deployement" package, this means that an OpenStep application will heavily load the system on which it runs. Will the runtime be the same thing of this actual deployement package or will only be a set of DLL with low impact on disk and memory space. Roger FLATTIN rflattin@cornut.fr ---->> On our site a SHAREWARE SQL Query Tool <<-------- --->> Don't forget to Try also our C/S Dev tool <<------- CORNUT Informatique SA Client/Server & SQL RDBMS BP 702 - 42950 St Etienne cedex 9 http://www.cornut.fr/ France email: info@cornut.fr
From: pemmerik@solair1.inter.NL.net (P.J.L.van Emmerik) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Year 2000 problems on NEXT? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:27:29 GMT Organization: NLnet Message-ID: <5o5ho9$9nt$1@news.NL.net> Are there any known difficulties after the year 2000 when using NEXT-OS? P.J.L. van Emmerik Holec Projects B.V. Email: emmerik@hpb.holec-projects.nl PO.BOX 565, 7550 AN Hengelo pemmerik@solair1.inter.NL.net The Netherlands Phone: +31 74 2558 688 --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: kjb@uts.amdahl.com (Kevin Barth) Subject: Re: Any of you Professional Next users Message-ID: <EBx2Cy.IKC@ccc.amdahl.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com (Usenet Administration) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA USA References: <5o4kke$emu@camel12.mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:55:46 GMT In article <5o4kke$emu@camel12.mindspring.com> flickx@mindspring.com (Andre ) writes: > Hi to all the pro readers of this News Group. > I just got a NeXT slab and I am a "Green-Thumb" a "Newbie" and totally > lost. > I connected an external 3X NEC SCSI cd-rom to the unit, inserted a > disc and wazza it read it, but when I opened the cover (it's manual) > and inserted another, I'm still left with the contents of the first. I > guess I should shut down (eject equivilence) before I opened the cover > but as I said I'm new and don't really know my way around this OS. Select the CDROM drive icon in a FileViewer and use the Disk->Eject (cmd-e) command to tell NEXSTEP to eject the drive (this opoeration alos unmounts -- rather important to UNIXens). Then you can put in the next CDROM (as you have already seen, NEXTSTEPs automounter automatically mounts it for you). > Is there a book I can buy that can assist me? > On another note, the folppy has a disk stuck in it and I don't know > how to eject it. I tried the little hole that I suspect is for manual > ejecting but I didn't respond. Is there a filesystem on the diskette? (does it show up in a WorkSpace FileViewer?) If not, you eject disks via the 'disk' command: /usr/etc/disk -e /dev/rfd0a If it is mounted, you *really* should unmount it first! If you don't, WorkSpace gets very confused AND you will have to fsck the diskette in order to use it again. The best way to eject removeable media (CDROMs, diskettes, flopticals, etc.) that has mounted filesystems on your system, is to highlight the device in a FileViewer and use the cmd-e command, which BTW, unmounts the filesystem BEFORE it ejects it. > I fear tha I may need another floppy drive. Whare can I get one at a > fair price? It is slightly likely that cmd-e will not actually eject the CDROM from the drive, if the CDROM is one that does not accept the eject command from WorkSpace. In cases like that, do cmd-e FIRST, then manually eject the CDROM as you had before. > Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist me in these matters. -- Regards, Kevin Barth (kjb@amdahl.com) phone: +44-1252-346307 Open Systems Staff Support fax: +44-1252-346406 Amdahl Corporation
From: "Timothy J. Luoma" <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Any of you Professional Next users Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:04:06 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970617095412.5497J-100000@cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Andre <flickx@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <5o4kke$emu@camel12.mindspring.com> On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, Andre wrote: > Hi to all the pro readers of this News Group. A professional reader? Now that would be a good job! > I connected an external 3X NEC SCSI cd-rom to the unit, inserted a > disc and wazza it read it, but when I opened the cover (it's manual) > and inserted another, I'm still left with the contents of the first. I > guess I should shut down (eject equivilence) before I opened the cover > but as I said I'm new and don't really know my way around this OS. With the disk still inserted, goto the File Viewer (the screen that appears when you first login). Select the CD (ie click on it once with the mouse) and then hold down the command key and press 'e' and then release the command-key and the 'e' key. I believe there is a menu item for this something like 'disk' and then 'eject' > Is there a book I can buy that can assist me? Not really... but the newsgroups are interactive and relatively free... > On another note, the folppy has a disk stuck in it and I don't know > how to eject it. I tried the little hole that I suspect is for manual > ejecting but I didn't respond. Try the same procesdure for the CD-ROM, just with the floppy instead. Select the floppy and then do 'eject'. IF that doesn't work: Logout. Press the 'power' key, confirm the shutdown. Remove the one screw that holds on the case (it in the back). Lift off the case (watch how it happens, it'll be easier to put it back on.... it should come off fairly easily once you hold the right spot). Look at the floppy drive. There is a little silver tab that lines up where that pinhole is to manually eject the floppy. Look inside the floppy drive (via the slot you inserted the floppy). Is anything blocking it? If not, push that silver tab and see if that ejects the floppy. (I am assuming you have a slab aka pizza box ?) The NeXT requires that you 'unmount' a disk (beit a CD, floppy, ZIP, whatever) before you 'eject' it. This is done automatically by clicking 'eject' or using command-e as I have described. The disk will be automatically ejected when it is unmounted by the operating system. Manually ejecting is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. Don't do it. That's only for toy OSes like the ones propigated by the Evil Empire and Colonel Gates. TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html "Everything is easy when you know what you are doing." - Dr Robert Cupper, Department of CS, Allegheny College
From: "Timothy J. Luoma" <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Year 2000 problems on NEXT? Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:07:26 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970617100440.5497K-100000@cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: "P.J.L.van Emmerik" <pemmerik@solair1.inter.NL.net> In-Reply-To: <5o5ho9$9nt$1@news.NL.net> On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, P.J.L.van Emmerik wrote: > Are there any known difficulties after the year 2000 when using NEXT-OS? There are no year 200 difficulties with any UNIX-based system, or with any OS/software designed by someone with enough foresight to look beyond the next paycheck. The NeXT community has both. The first is the really crucial one, the second can make up for the lack of the first in many cases. Rest easy..... However, be sure you check your MasterCard bill for 100 years worth of interest in Jan 2000...... TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html "Everything is easy when you know what you are doing." - Dr Robert Cupper, Department of CS, Allegheny College
From: Serge Smadja <serge.smadja@der.edfgdf.fr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.bugs Subject: Drivers, more Drivers are needed Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:50:23 +0200 Organization: EDF - DER/IMA/ICI/ODI Message-ID: <33A6A42F.2577BC9F@der.edfgdf.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello All, I have installed OpenStep 4.1 on a G6 200XL from Gateway 2000, however my graphic adapter is a STB Virge velocity 3D and my network adapter is a 3COM Etherlink III PCI (PCI is very important) and it seems that there aren't adequate drivers on the CD or on the Next Site. Any help would be appriciated. Does anybody knows if those drivers will be available anytime soon. Thanks. -- Serge Smadja EDF - Direction des Etudes et Recherches - FRANCE Ingénieur Chercheur - Département Ingénierie de la Communication en Informatique Groupe Outils de Dialogue pour l'Informatique Tél : +33 (0)1 47 65 31 31 fax : +33 (0)1 47 65 35 23 email : serge.smadja@der.edfgdf.fr
From: stefan@ping.at (Stefan Schneider) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: SSS May Quiz results Date: 17 Jun 1997 19:44:09 GMT Organization: Customer of EUnet/PING Austria Message-ID: <5o6pe9$bm5$1@news.Austria.EU.net> The SSS May Quiz has ended, and the winners are drawn! For the quiz answer as well as for the drawing results, visit http://members.ping.at/stefan/quiz.html As always, the winners will receive a free HelpViewer 1.3 *or* LatinByrd III license. SSS's Quiz of the Month goes on summer vacation! See you all after the break, - Stefan -- Stefan Schneider Software Dipl.Ing. Stefan Schneider Lerchenfelder St. 85/6 A-1070 Vienna, Austria, Europe voice/fax: +43-1-523-5834 e-mail: stefan@ping.at (NeXTMail preferred, MIME welcome) web: http://members.ping.at/stefan/
From: Axel Habermann <kiwi@buran.fb10.tu-berlin.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.bugs Subject: Re: Drivers, more Drivers are needed Date: 17 Jun 1997 19:37:54 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Message-ID: <5o6p2i$9qe$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <33A6A42F.2577BC9F@der.edfgdf.fr> In comp.sys.next.advocacy Serge Smadja <serge.smadja@der.edfgdf.fr> wrote: : Hello All, : I have installed OpenStep 4.1 on a G6 200XL from Gateway 2000, however : my graphic adapter is a STB Virge velocity 3D and my network adapter is : a 3COM Etherlink III PCI (PCI is very important) and it seems that there : aren't adequate drivers on the CD or on the Next Site. There is a generic driver for the Virge chipset, I would give it a try, maybe it works with your graphics card. There is no such thing an Etherlink III PCI adapter, at least not according to 3com's website. There is an Etherlink XL PCI adapter for which a driver is available: NeXTanswers #2165, #2166, #2534 HTH Axel -- Axel Habermann kiwi@buran.fb10.tu-berlin.de Fon:+49 30 45478986 Fax:4542296 Die Dateien, in denen die Programmdokumentation enthalten ist, haben normalerweise die Endung ".c", -- Kristian Koehntopp
From: dimascio.6@osu.edu (V.P. DiMascio) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: LOOKING FOR NEXT BLACK HARDWARE Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:38:37 GMT Organization: The Ohio State University Message-ID: <dimascio.6.5.33A6F5CC@osu.edu> anyone know where i can get a cheap next machine. i'm not too interested in cubes. color doens't really matter either. just enough to have nextstep up and possibly run mathematica. thanks in advance. vince
From: John Goggan <jgoggan@dcg.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Anyone near Mt. Pleasant (or Midland) Michigan?? Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:51:18 -0400 Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Message-ID: <33A7D9C6.6C3C@dcg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok -- I'm haing a (another!) problem with my new Color Station that I think is SoundBox related. So, basically, I'm trying to find someone fairly close to me that also has a Color Station so that maybe we could get together and to some quick equipment testing (i.e. I'd like to bring my Station over and try YOUR SoundBox to see if my problem goes away!)... So -- anyone near Mt. Pleasant or Midland Michigan out there? If so, please let me know! Thanks very much... - John (Goggan)... jgoggan@dcg.com
From: michael@rumah.pc.my (Michael Olan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: problem w/ 2.88mb floppies Date: 18 Jun 1997 12:43:27 GMT Organization: Personal Message-ID: <5o8l5f$1n6@rumah.pc.my> I have 2 slabs & am getting the same problem with both floppy drives. They work ok with 1.44mb 2HD floppies, but not with ED's. Console reports many CRC errors. Some have "Missing Address Mark:" and "DMA Over/underrun:" or "Header Not Found" errors. Repair and Initialize do not fix the problem. Even a fresh unformatted disk does this when I tried to format it. If I format a 1.44mb as Next, I get lots of the same errors, but eventually it will complete. I want to make a bootfloppy, but 6 disks failed, and I don't have any more 2.88's. Is there any way to correct this & use the hosed disks? It doesn't seem likely that 2 drives are bad. I'm using NS3.2. TIA, Mike
From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Drivers, more Drivers are needed Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:50:45 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970618084815.10489A-100000@cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> References: <33A6A42F.2577BC9F@der.edfgdf.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Serge Smadja <serge.smadja@der.edfgdf.fr> In-Reply-To: <33A6A42F.2577BC9F@der.edfgdf.fr> There is absolutely no need to post to more than one group in comp.sys.next.* at a time. You really are not reaching more people, you are just making more work for those who might spend that time helping you. If you are not sure which group to post to, please refer to this document http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Newsgroups/roadmap.html TjL
From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: problem w/ 2.88mb floppies Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:40:04 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970618093700.11021B-100000@cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> References: <5o8l5f$1n6@rumah.pc.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Michael Olan <michael@rumah.pc.my> In-Reply-To: <5o8l5f$1n6@rumah.pc.my> On 18 Jun 1997, Michael Olan wrote: <snip> > Even a fresh unformatted disk does this when I tried to format it. If I > format a 1.44mb as Next, I get lots of the same errors, but eventually > it will complete. <snip> > It doesn't seem likely that 2 drives are bad. If they both fail to format a 1.44 disk, I'd say they were both bad. If they just fail to format a NeXT disk (either 2.88 or 1.44) then I'd say the file used to format for NeXT has been corrupted. Of course I can't remember what file that is, at the moment.... If you can figure it out, try comparing that to the CD. Wild guess... TjL -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html "Everything is easy when you know what you are doing." - Dr Robert Cupper, Department of CS, Allegheny College
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Re: ATAPI CD-ROM problems (NEC CDR-1400). Can't install! Date: 18 Jun 1997 14:12:30 GMT Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97May22184825@ra.one.net> References: <AFA9F32C-E0A81A@141.214.134.235> <5m24hb$mma@crl2.crl.com> In-reply-to: bny@spamdunk_cut_here_crl.com's message of 22 May 1997 11:50:19 -0700 In article <5m24hb$mma@crl2.crl.com>, bny@spamdunk_cut_here_crl.com (Brad Yearwood) writes: In article <AFA9F32C-E0A81A@141.214.134.235>, Robert A. Decker <comrade@umich.edu> wrote: >We go through the installation process with the floppies. I set >the CD-ROM to be an Adaptec SCSI driver like one of the tech >notes, with the harddrive to EIDE and that didn't work. I set the >CD-ROM and hardrive to be dual primary/secondary ATAPI/EIDE and >that didn't work. I tried just about every combination that I >could think of and none of them work. I would be inclined to blame an incompatibility with the NEC drive. Note in NeXTanswer 2265 that no NEC drives are in the supported list, and 2 NEC drives are in the Known Problems list. As would I. Last weekend I purchased a 3.1G EIDE drive and a 12x Toshiba ATAPI drive at a computer fair. No boxes, no nothing. Just for grins, pulled my SCSI card and installed NeXTSTEP on the EIDE using the ATAPI drive. Worked fine, really the only problem was that NeXT's fdisk didn't seem all that happy with such a large drive (to be safe, I used Linux to partition the drive and told NeXTSTEP to install itself in the NeXTSTEP partition). That was with NS3.3. OpenStep is easier, as it has actual support for EIDE/ATAPI, rather than crufted on support :-). The machine has two EIDE interfaces, and was originally configured with the hard disk on one, and the CD-ROM on the other. I tried to get this to work with the Dual EIDE driver option, but it would not recognize the CD drive. I'm pretty sure that you still need the ATAPI in the slave position of the primary controller. I've heard noises about this getting fixed at some point, but I've not heard that it _is_ fixed. Whichever tech note suggests specifying the CD as SCSI with an Adaptech interface, is either obsolete or a red herring. Sort of both. NS3.3 needed this, because it couldn't get anywhere without some SCSI controller running. ATAPI actually runs a protocol similar to SCSI (from what I've heard it effectively _is_ SCSI), albeit over IDE cabling. Makes you wonder why SCSI CD-ROM drives cost 2x as much at a given speed as ATAPI CD-ROM drives ... Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (606) 578-0412 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Atomic Clock Synchronization with NeXT? Date: 18 Jun 1997 14:13:48 GMT Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97Jun2135032@ra.one.net> References: <5mqjjr$b5d@agate.berkeley.edu> In-reply-to: john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu's message of 1 Jun 1997 01:34:51 GMT In article <5mqjjr$b5d@agate.berkeley.edu>, john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu writes: Is there any 'telnet-able' or 'http-able' site that will synchronize my NeXT Turbo's computer clock... toll free? I just have the line: 0 2 * * * root /usr/ucb/rdate ftp.uu.net 2>&1 in my /etc/crontab. [For non-cron-speakers, run rdate to ftp.uu.net at 2am, discard the output.] Sure, it's unlikely to be atomic clock precise ... but hell, my computer can't keep atomic clock precise time even if it starts out correctly synchronized, so who cares? If I'm within a couple seconds, that's fine by me ... [Actually, I have this in the root crontab on my gateway Linux boxes: 45 1 * * * /usr/bin/rdate -s ftp.uu.net and the 2am lines to the linux box on my internal NeXT machines. I'm mostly concerned that my local net is all internally synched. I found ntp way too annoying to get configured to make it worth my while.] Later, -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (606) 578-0412 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: problem w/ 2.88mb floppies Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:16:07 -0400 Organization: The PEAK FTP site for OpenStep & NeXTStep Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.3.96.970618093329.11021A-100000@cc344191-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> References: <5o8l5f$1n6@rumah.pc.my> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Michael Olan <michael@rumah.pc.my> In-Reply-To: <5o8l5f$1n6@rumah.pc.my> On 18 Jun 1997, Michael Olan wrote: > I want to make a bootfloppy, but 6 disks failed, and I don't have any more > 2.88's. Is there any way to correct this & use the hosed disks? It doesn't > seem likely that 2 drives are bad. You mean a floppy with a minimal system on it, enough to boot the machine? I had some trouble trying to do that.... might have been with 3.3 though.... have you tried dd if=/dev/rfd0a of=/dev/null bs=8k conv=sync and see if that reports any bad blocks (wild guess). TjL
From: Andrew Engelmann <engelman@colorado.edu> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Compile MATLAB under NextStep? Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:52:13 -0600 Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder Distribution: inet Message-ID: <33A8204D.5AF0@colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-User: engelman NextStepers, Has anyone ever compiled Matlab code to run under NextStep? If so, how can I found out how to do that? -Drew Engelmann
From: Fam.Moser@t-online.de (Familie Moser) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: glib++ for NextStep 3.0 Date: 17 Jun 1997 10:50:05 GMT Organization: Telekom Online Internet Gateway Message-ID: <5o5q4t$q0s$1@news02.btx.dtag.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everybody, I am looking for a port of glib++ on NS 3.0. At had a look at the sources of glib2.0, but I am afraid that the effort in porting it is too much for me. So I was wondering if there is somebody out there who has a port available. It need not be the latest version, I am just interested in hacking a little bit C++. Any kind of advice or pointer is welcome. Please mail to either martin@shiratori.riec.tohoku.ac.jp or fam.moser@t-online.de. Thanks in advance for your kindness, Martin
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From: cejensen@bitstream.net (Christian Jensen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR NEXT BLACK HARDWARE Date: 19 Jun 1997 03:01:23 GMT Organization: Bitstream Underground Message-ID: <5oa7e3$nul$1@maryj.bitstream.net> References: <dimascio.6.5.33A6F5CC@osu.edu> In-Reply-To: <dimascio.6.5.33A6F5CC@osu.edu> On 06/17/97, V.P. DiMascio wrote: >anyone know where i can get a cheap next machine. Try: www.orb.com www.deepspacetech.com -- ******************************** Chris Jensen cejensen@bitstream.net MIME, NeXTMail OK
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: ulkjhlk@poikjgewrwtrqj.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5oa7lt$ms9@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <5oa7lt$ms9@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Date: 19 Jun 1997 03:05:37 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5oa7lt$ms9@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Jesse.Tayler@OEinc.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rhapsody: from Greek "rhaptein" to sew or stitch together + "oide" a song Date: 19 Jun 1997 05:13:13 GMT Organization: ServNet Internet Services Message-ID: <5oaf59$djn$1@brockman.serv.net> I am not sure that anyone at Apple intended for this little tidbit about the name "Rhapsody" but when I think of Rhapsody being such a great composition of old and new, I wonder. Rhapsody: from Greek "rhaptein" to sew or stitch together + "oide" a song. "rhaptein" say: "rap-tine" "oide" say: "oy-day" In the middle ages, songs were composed and sung by bards and minstrels. Composing was based on the old and accepted phrases being compiled together into a new piece. The "song" that is stitched together is a rich patchwork of pre-fabricated lines or half-lines of verse, some of them hundreds of years old, some more recent, some few maybe the singer's own inventions -- all held in suspension in the bard's memory and reorganized each time he sings, to make a new (yet always familiar) work. Homer's Iliad and Odyssey were constructed this way, though not until this century did scholars discover how that ancient method worked, or its profound implications for our understanding of oral tradition and the history of culture and language.... You could say that "rhapsody," in its original Greek meaning, IS a form of object architecture! -- Jesse Tayler Object Enterprises Incorporated 2608 Second Avenue Suite 119 Seattle WA 98121-1276 USA 888-445-8515 - PHONE (toll free) 888-445-8516 - FAX (toll free) 206-954-3284 - CELL Jesse.Tayler@OEinc.com http://www.oeinc.com/
From: breiter@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (Bernhard Reiter) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Compile MATLAB under NextStep? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.software Date: 19 Jun 1997 12:40:20 GMT Organization: RRZN - Newsserver Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ob9bk$8a$2@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de> References: <33A8204D.5AF0@colorado.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <33A8204D.5AF0@colorado.edu>, Andrew Engelmann <engelman@colorado.edu> writes: > Has anyone ever compiled Matlab code to run under NextStep? If so, how > can I found out how to do that? Another hint: There is "octave" under GPL, which *should be* mathlab comparable. Bernhard F`up2: comp.sys.next.software
From: John Goggan <jgoggan@dcg.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Exception #3 at boot -- any ideas? Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 12:34:09 -0400 Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Message-ID: <33A95F81.72F2@dcg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm still getting some odd behavior (although different than before I replaced the motherboard already! Doh!) on my Color Station... At just starts to boot (i.e. passes the self tests and just starts to read the hard drive (or floppy, as I've tried that too) and then dies with: "Exception #3" Can anyone fill me in on what Exception #3 is -- or have any ideas? I'm thinking I may have a bad SoundBox, but I'm not certain... - John (Goggan)... jgoggan@dcg.com
From: Timothy J. Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Exception #3 at boot -- any ideas? Date: 20 Jun 1997 03:14:42 GMT Organization: Public Electronic Access to Knowlege,Inc Message-ID: <5ocsj2$7vg$1@bashir.peak.org> References: <33A95F81.72F2@dcg.com> In-Reply-To: <33A95F81.72F2@dcg.com> On 06/19/97, John Goggan wrote: >Can anyone fill me in on what Exception #3 is -- or have any ideas? >I'm thinking I may have a bad SoundBox, but I'm not certain... For me it seems to have had something to do with RAM.... or the motherboard perhaps... Hard rebooting (alt-cmd-* on keypad) or power cycling seems to fix it for me.. TjL -- -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html "Everything is easy when you know what you are doing." - Dr Robert Cupper, Department of CS, Allegheny College
From: John Goggan <jgoggan@dcg.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Exception #3 at boot -- any ideas? Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 07:17:25 -0400 Organization: Sojourn Systems Ltd. Message-ID: <33AA66C5.5D25@dcg.com> References: <33A95F81.72F2@dcg.com> <5ocsj2$7vg$1@bashir.peak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Timothy J. Luoma wrote: > On 06/19/97, John Goggan wrote: > >Can anyone fill me in on what Exception #3 is -- or have any ideas? > >I'm thinking I may have a bad SoundBox, but I'm not certain... > > For me it seems to have had something to do with RAM.... or the > motherboard perhaps... > > Hard rebooting (alt-cmd-* on keypad) or power cycling seems to fix it > for me.. Thanks for the response, but I've tried that quite a bit -- just starts to reboot and then gives Exception #3 again. I've also tried three different pairs of SIMMs with the same results. And two motherboards (although one was having a different problem most of the time, so I guess it is possible I have another bad motherboard, but I doubt it). I'm still leaning towards it being a bad SoundBox that may actually be causing odd problems on the motherboard. All of my tests pass -- but the sound-out test sounds more like a blip of high-pitched garbage than the normal full-of-bass startup sound that I am used to... Hmmm... - John (Goggan)... jgoggan@dcg.com
From: sfr@cs.tu-berlin.de (S. F. Ruehauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: make mail folder searchable? Date: 20 Jun 1997 12:27:53 GMT Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany Message-ID: <5odt09$brd$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hello after more than 4 years of NextMail the problem of finding old mails gets harder and harder. So: is there a good easy solution to search within NeXTMail in all folders ? Something like another button in the active Mailfolder? Or a Service? thanx alot later SfR
From: marc@htl.com (Marc Respass) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: halted startup (OS 4.2 PR) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 01:58:06 GMT Organization: HTL Technologies, Inc. Message-ID: <33ab3446.642346@htlmst.htl.com> Hi, I have the Prelude to Rhapsody installed on my Pentium system. Everything is working great (finally :) but ever since I added a DNS server to my network config, Openstep seems to hang on startup. The disk icon in the Starting Openstep window spins for a while then it goes away and the system just sits there. When I press ctrl-C, it resumes startup. Any ideas why? If I may ask an unrelated question, how can I setup NeXTMail to work with my POP mail server? I can't find any place to setup the mail server like I do in other POP clients. Is NeXT Mail not a POP client maybe? If not, is there a POP mail client and newsreader around for Openstep? I have OmniWeb which is really nice. Thanks a lot --Marc Respass High Technology Logistics mailto:marc@htl.com http://www.htl.com
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From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: LocalApps or NextApps? Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:25:34 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <InefoCm00iWY04a_w0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <33ab3540.892899@htlmst.htl.com> In-Reply-To: <33ab3540.892899@htlmst.htl.com> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 21-Jun-97 LocalApps or NextApps? by Marc Respass@htl.com > I downloaded an application while logged as "me" (no superuser privs). > When I tried to install it, it wanted to install in /LocalApps. I > wanted to put it in /NextApps with all my other applications but I > couldn't because I didn't have the privileges. What's the difference > between /LocalApps and /NextApps? They're both in the root of the > drive and can be accessed by anyone (can't they?). You want to put any apps you install yourself in /LocalApps. Normal users don't have permissions to install in /NextApps because if/when you upgrade the OS to a new version, the upgrade process feels free to manipulate that directory freely so it may delete things in /NextApps (unless you manually verify what it's doing, which you _can_ do but most people don't). Only the bundled apps NeXT provides belong in /NextApps. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: ;LK;L@';L'LHN.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5oeelj$434@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <5oeelj$434@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net> Date: 20 Jun 1997 17:29:24 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5oeelj$434@mtinsc02.worldnet.att.net> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Jesse.Tayler@OEinc.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: LocalApps or NextApps? Date: 20 Jun 1997 18:06:29 GMT Organization: ServNet Internet Services Message-ID: <5oegr5$9mk$1@brockman.serv.net> References: <33ab3540.892899@htlmst.htl.com> In-Reply-To: <33ab3540.892899@htlmst.htl.com> On 06/20/97, Marc Respass wrote: > I downloaded an application while logged as "me" > (no superuser privs). When I tried to install it, > it wanted to install in /LocalApps. I wanted to > put it in /NextApps with all my other > applications but I couldn't because I didn't have > the privileges. What's the difference between > /LocalApps and /NextApps? They're both in the > root of the drive and can be accessed by anyone > (can't they?). > Next -Library and Apps etc. Are for NeXT applications, typically official stuff are the ones that install there. You should not muck with those folders as a general rule. The term "local" is from your local area network. These are typically shared folders that are controlled by Admins. /LocalApps and /LocalLibrary are common examples If you only have one machine, and generally use the "me" account, I would suggest that you either open up the privileges for the /LocalApps folder, or put personal applications in your ~/Apps folder. Do not put applications in folders other than ~/Apps and /LocalApps since they are part of a special "application path" that is used to build services, document icons and other neat stuff. I would not use the "me" account, I would just take the time to set up separate user accounts - it's not hard, even if I was the only user. The "me" account seems to be designed for people who wanted a PC but bought a NeXT by mistake and like the idea of having the computer startup in to the workspace without logging in. Have fun!! jester -- Jesse Tayler Object Enterprises Incorporated 2608 Second Avenue Suite 119 Seattle WA 98121-1276 USA 888-445-8515 - PHONE (toll free) 888-445-8516 - FAX (toll free) 206-954-3284 - CELL Jesse.Tayler@OEinc.com http://www.oeinc.com/
From: dwy@ace.net (David Young) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: LocalApps or NextApps? Date: 20 Jun 1997 22:33:23 GMT Organization: 21st Century Software, New York City Sender: daver@ts1-9.nj.cnct.com Message-ID: <5of0fj$aso$1@darla.visi.com> References: <33ab3540.892899@htlmst.htl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 1997 17:33:23 CDT Cc: marc@htl.com In <33ab3540.892899@htlmst.htl.com> Marc Respass wrote: > I downloaded an application while logged as "me" (no superuser privs). > When I tried to install it, it wanted to install in /LocalApps. I > wanted to put it in /NextApps with all my other applications but I > couldn't because I didn't have the privileges. What's the difference > between /LocalApps and /NextApps? They're both in the root of the > drive and can be accessed by anyone (can't they?). You aren't supposed to install applications in NextApps. It's for, well, NeXT apps, and not user-installed apps. /LocalApps is for site-local apps (it's generally shared to client machines from file servers, hence LAN-local) and $HOME/Apps is user-specific apps. You don't have write permission to /Next-anything for this reason (well, except /NextLibrary/Receipts). -- :: d a v i d y o u n g ::::: smtp dwy@ace.net http www.ace.net :: :: independant software and network guy ::::: new york, new york :: :: PGP fingerprint :: 89F5 E75D 4749 3FF4 :: ED92 1B6D 9871 9B93 ::
From: dwy@ace.net (David Young) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: halted startup (OS 4.2 PR) Date: 20 Jun 1997 22:41:58 GMT Organization: 21st Century Software, New York City Sender: daver@ts1-9.nj.cnct.com Message-ID: <5of0vm$aso$2@darla.visi.com> References: <33ab3446.642346@htlmst.htl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 1997 17:41:58 CDT Cc: marc@htl.com In <33ab3446.642346@htlmst.htl.com> Marc Respass wrote: > I have the Prelude to Rhapsody installed on my Pentium system. > Everything is working great (finally :) but ever since I added a DNS > server to my network config, Openstep seems to hang on startup. The > disk icon in the Starting Openstep window spins for a while then it > goes away and the system just sits there. When I press ctrl-C, it > resumes startup. Any ideas why? When booting, type -v at the boot: prompt to get a verbose startup screen. You should be able to trace down the problem then. I have suspicion that it's sendmail sleeping when trying to look up the local hostname, so you might want to look closely at that. > If I may ask an unrelated question, how can I setup NeXTMail to work > with my POP mail server? I can't find any place to setup the mail > server like I do in other POP clients. Is NeXT Mail not a POP client > maybe? If not, is there a POP mail client and newsreader around for > Openstep? You're right, it's not a POP client. Look for PopOver on one of the ftp sites; it does pop3 transfers. -- :: d a v i d y o u n g ::::: smtp dwy@ace.net http www.ace.net :: :: independant software and network guy ::::: new york, new york :: :: PGP fingerprint :: 89F5 E75D 4749 3FF4 :: ED92 1B6D 9871 9B93 ::
From: john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: 128MB RAM in a NeXT Turbo? Date: 21 Jun 1997 14:15:13 GMT Organization: University of California at Berkeley Message-ID: <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> Originator: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu Can I install 128MB RAM in my NeXT Turbo...ie. four 32MB SIMMS? And, if I buy two 32MB SIMMS and use them alone (64MB total), with the idea that I might want to add another 64MB (or 16MB, or 32MB) later, which two slots do I install the two 32MB SIMMS in... the ones closest to the power supply? Thanks. John
From: andydunn@op.net (Andy Dunn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Avery labels on a NeXT printer? Date: 21 Jun 1997 15:15:17 GMT Organization: OpNet -- Greater Philadelphia Internet Service Message-ID: <5ogr65$p83$1@picasso.op.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has anyone tried printing to video tape labels using a NeXT printer? Are there any templates out there to help with this, preferably in WriteNow or Draw format? Thanks, _andy
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: 128MB RAM in a NeXT Turbo? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:43:48 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <onf3o4W00iVG028qI0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> In-Reply-To: <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 21-Jun-97 128MB RAM in a NeXT Turbo? by john@romdas.HIP.berkeley > Can I install 128MB RAM in my NeXT Turbo...ie. four 32MB SIMMS? Most probably, yes. I think a few Turbo motherboards were designed with 8 30-pin SIMM slots (which would max out at 32MB) instead of 4 72-pin SIMM slots (which maxes at 128 MB), but the latter is what most people have. > And, if I buy two 32MB SIMMS and use them alone (64MB total), with the idea > that I might want to add another 64MB (or 16MB, or 32MB) later, which two > slots do I install the two 32MB SIMMS in... the ones closest to the power > supply? Yes, they should be installed in slots 0 and 1, which are the leftmost (when facing the computer in it's normal orientation). -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: MWRon@metrowerks.com (MW Ron) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools.mfc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [JOBS] Metrowerks Research and Development Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 19:29:20 -0400 Organization: Metrowerks Message-ID: <MWRon-2106971929200001@aumi2-a02.ccm.tds.net> Metrowerks Current Job Openings Metrowerks is the creator of CodeWarrior, a suite of software development tools used by programmers around the world. This fast-growing, Austin-based company is currently seeking candidates to fill a number of positions: RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT Four-year college degrees required; computer science, computer engineering and electrical engineering degrees preferred. A. Libraries/Performance Analysis Engineer, C/C++/Pascal/Java Some experience with FORTRAN, C, C++ or Java required. Duties will include various subsets of the following: * measuring compiler performance across various x86, PowerPC, 68K, MIPS implementations * analysis of object code for codgen flaws, possible areas of improvement * analysis via automated suites to determine optimal library designs, evaluating new sources * testing C/C++ libraries for conformance to ISO and emerging standards, fixing singularities * writing example code, writing technical documentation, providing high-end support for STL users B. Rapid Application Development (RAD) Tools (Both junior and senior level positions available) These positions will include the design and implementation of core technology and user interface for tools to assist in the development of object-oriented applications. Candidates should have strong Windows or Macintosh experience (experience with both Windows and Macintosh preferred) and a proven track record delivering major applications in C++. Candidates should also have played a key role in contributing to projects involving extensive user interface and core code. Preference will be given to candidates with experience with the following: previous development tool implementation experience, Java, Visual C++, MFC, ActiveX or NextStep. C. Software Engineer for CodeWarrior Latitude This person will develop portable implementations of Macintosh Toolbox functionality for CodeWarrior Latitude. Will write code in C, C++, & ObjC on non-Mac platforms including Solaris, IRIX, HP-UX and Rhapsody. UNIX experience, however, is not essential. Will develop testing suites for quality assurance. Candidates are required to have at least three years of solid Mac programming experience. Also, candidates with strengths in interprocess communications such as AppleTalk and AppleEvents, AppleScript and OpenTransport are desired. Experience with WorldScript & other Internationalization features, such as multi-byte character handling, is a bonus. D. UNIX Programmer Metrowerks is looking for a junior to intermediate level programmer for its UNIX group. Candidates must know C and C++ and have at least two years programming experience. Previous experience programming on UNIX is a must; experience in UNIX programming with gcc preferred. E. Quality Assurance Engineers Metrowerks is looking for people with strong cross platform skills and some programming and testing experience. Quality assurance engineers will work in a rapidly changing environment and will enjoy the benefits of working with state-of-the-art (bleeding edge) technologies such as Java, BeOS, PalmOS (Pilot), MacOS 8 and others. Macintosh and/or Microsoft Windows programming experience is required. Must be familiar with one or more of the following programming languages: C, C++, Java, Pascal and one or more of the following platforms: Macintosh, Microsoft Windows 95/NT or UNIX. Medical, dental, life, disability and 401K plans are available to employees. For more information, see the Metrowerks web page <http://www.metrowerks.com>. Please send resumes by email to hr@metrowerks.com, or by fax to Recruiting Coordinator at 512/873-4900. -- METROWERKS Ron Liechty http://www.metrowerks.com MWRon@metrowerks.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: asd;lfjds@#jasdf.scom Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ohr1e$9gu@usenet84.supernews.com> Control: cancel <5ohr1e$9gu@usenet84.supernews.com> Date: 22 Jun 1997 00:01:59 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5ohr1e$9gu@usenet84.supernews.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: a;lsdfjasl;@l;ajfsda.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5oi1a0$d7c@usenet84.supernews.com> Control: cancel <5oi1a0$d7c@usenet84.supernews.com> Date: 22 Jun 1997 01:39:21 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5oi1a0$d7c@usenet84.supernews.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: zizi zhao <ziziz@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: netinfo config in 3.3 & 4.2 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:12:22 -0400 Organization: personal Message-ID: <33ACB436.57A0@worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need to upgrade from NS/intel 3.3 to 4.2. Since I would be the first one to do so in the company, I wonder how netinfo works in 4.2. If I save the netinfo config in 3.3 on a disk and copy it to /etc after upgrade to 4.2, will it work? Thanks, ZiZi
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <3108866347221@digifix.com> Date: 22 Jun 1997 03:57:06 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <10436866952022@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: OpenStep Third Party Software guide, Developer Directory, Mailing List information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. This is the World Wide Web interace to the FTP site. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://www.next.com Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's 'Prelude to Rhapsody' Self Support Site http://devworld.apple.com/dev/prelude.html This site has been constructed to help you help yourself to learn as much as possible about the foundation for Rhapsody, today's OPENSTEP. The site provides an informal collection of pointers, references, and starting points for developers who are using the Prelude to Rhapsody bundle, distributed at this year's Worldwide Developer Conference. OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://terra.stack.urc.tue.nl (Dutch NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: jbf_see_sig@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Exception #3 at boot -- any ideas? Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 06:32:18 -0400 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf_see_sig-ya023580002206970632180001@news.tiac.net> References: <33A95F81.72F2@dcg.com> <5ocsj2$7vg$1@bashir.peak.org> <33AA66C5.5D25@dcg.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Its a bad instruction address. Bad ROM, bad boot block, bad motherboard ... Barney (delete that _see_sig to email me)
From: gregor@crosslink.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: 128MB RAM in a NeXT Turbo? Date: 22 Jun 1997 15:54:59 GMT Organization: CrossLink Internet Services Message-ID: <5ojhsj$d9h$2@kronos.crosslink.net> References: <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu In <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu wrote: > Can I install 128MB RAM in my NeXT Turbo...ie. four 32MB SIMMS? And, if I > buy two 32MB SIMMS and use them alone (64MB total), with the idea > that I might want to add another 64MB (or 16MB, or 32MB) later, which two > slots do I install the two 32MB SIMMS in... the ones closest to the power > supply? > > Thanks. > > John > 128Mb works in the Turbo Color slab, but 1) takes forever to get through the testing system routine, and 2) no noticeable increase in speed. 3) wouldn't go trhough the expense again. Two 32Mb chips would go closest to the power supply, add others later Regards Gregor
From: cwolf@wolfware.com (Christopher Wolf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: 128MB RAM in a NeXT Turbo? Date: 22 Jun 1997 19:22:16 GMT Organization: WolfWare Message-ID: <5oju18$3du$1@vader.wolfware.ipc.net> References: <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> <5ojhsj$d9h$2@kronos.crosslink.net> In-Reply-To: <5ojhsj$d9h$2@kronos.crosslink.net> On 06/22/97, gregor@crosslink.net wrote: >In <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> john@romdas.HIP.berkeley.edu wrote: >> Can I install 128MB RAM in my NeXT Turbo...ie. four 32MB SIMMS? And, if I >> buy two 32MB SIMMS and use them alone (64MB total), with the idea >> that I might want to add another 64MB (or 16MB, or 32MB) later, which two >> slots do I install the two 32MB SIMMS in... the ones closest to the power >> supply? >> >> Thanks. >> >> John >> >128Mb works in the Turbo Color slab, but >1) takes forever to get through the testing system routine, and I'm pretty sure it's possible to disable the hardware tests from the ROM monitor. I believe it was one of the first things I did on my slab with 96MB and it doesn't seem to spend any appreciable time doing any kind of memory test anymore. And besides, how often do you reboot anyways? ;-) Uptime on my slab is up to 44 days now - even an extra minute or two to reboot doesn't sound so bad if you only have to wait for it once a month or so. >2) no noticeable increase in speed. I think this depends on what you're doing. With every NeXTSTEP/OpenStep system I've owned (both Intel and NeXT) throwing more memory at it has ALWAYS brought me noticeable improvements in performance - I've used systems with everything from 16MB up to 128MB (with CPU remaining basically constant) and have always benefitted from the RAM. >3) wouldn't go trhough the expense again. Your mileage may vary of course. Just thought I'd present an alternative opinion. >Two 32Mb chips would go closest to the power supply, add others later > >Regards >Gregor -- _______________________________________________________________________ Christopher A. Wolf -- WolfWare -- NeXTSTEP/OpenStep/Rhapsody Developer For info about NewsFlash the lightning fast NeXTSTEP news-reader visit our newly revised web site at: http://www.wolfware.com _______________________________________________________________________
From: hanske@ratatosk.ratatosk.gol.com (Hans Shimizu Karlsson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Q} CAPer, corrupted files Date: 22 Jun 1997 15:22:56 GMT Organization: Global OnLine Japan Message-ID: <5ojg0g$im7$1@godzilla.gol.com> Hello I have a problem with corrupted files when transferring stuff to my Mac. Graphic files come over badly distorted. Bringing over the same files on a floppy lets me open them without problems, and without distortion. I can copy binhexed Mac apps to the Mac without problems. I have PPP on the Mac running on the same Ethernet connection. Use the MAc as a client to a NeXT, and from there to the world, via a proxy. Hans Karlsson _____________________________________________________ hanske@ratatosk.com www@ratatosk.com info@ratatosk.com
From: frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: [Q} CAPer, corrupted files Date: 23 Jun 1997 17:45:30 GMT Organization: Frank's Area 51 Message-ID: <5omcnq$rjj$1@orista.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <5ojg0g$im7$1@godzilla.gol.com> Cc: hanske@ratatosk.ratatosk.gol.com In <5ojg0g$im7$1@godzilla.gol.com> Hans Shimizu Karlsson wrote: > Hello > > I have a problem with corrupted files when transferring stuff > to my Mac. > > Graphic files come over badly distorted. > > Bringing over the same files on a floppy lets me open > them without problems, and without distortion. > > I can copy binhexed Mac apps to the Mac without problems. > > I have PPP on the Mac running on the same Ethernet connection. > > Use the MAc as a client to a NeXT, and from there to the world, > via a proxy. Most likely you are transfering the graphics files with ASCII conversion. CAPs AUFS will automatically change the line ends in this case (bad idea for binary files). You should put an mapping file called .afpfile similar to the example presented in the README of CAPer V8 (see under the Info menu) in your home directory and restart the file services. This should be done for every user. -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Modem and Printer Message-ID: <33AECA4C.A2D6CC0F@uwyo.edu> From: "W.T. Grandy, Jr." <wtg@uwyo.edu> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:11:09 -0600 Distribution: world Organization: University of Wyoming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two problems I can't seem to solve for my OpenStep 4.1 platform. I'm running Intel, Pentium Pro 200, 64 MB, and 4.3 GB hard drive partitioned for Win95 and OpenStep. 1. The less serious of the two is that OS doesn't seem to register the printer and allow its use if it's turned on after booting. If turned on before boot, no problem, Is this the normal behavior? It wasn't so in NS 3.2. 2. More serious, upon starting to install PPP, I discovered that OS wasn't recognizing my modem, a Telepath 33.6. When I realized that it was a plug-and-play modem I exchanged it for the the same make but not P&P, and set it up as usual at com2, IRQ 3, at 2f8. Nothing! I've tried doing everything I can think of in configure.app, but OS still acts as if it didn't exist. Neither the faxmodem nor GateKeeper has any interest in it. I'd very much appreciate hearing from anyone to whom all this sounds familiar, or who has an answer anyway. Tom Grandy -- W.T. Grandy, Jr. Physics & Astronomy University of Wyoming http://faraday.uwyo.edu/faculty/tgrandy/index.html
From: gregor@crosslink.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Avery labels on a NeXT printer? Date: 22 Jun 1997 15:51:10 GMT Organization: CrossLink Internet Services Message-ID: <5ojhle$d9h$1@kronos.crosslink.net> References: <5ogr65$p83$1@picasso.op.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: andydunn@op.net In <5ogr65$p83$1@picasso.op.net> Andy Dunn wrote: > > Has anyone tried printing to video tape labels using a NeXT printer? > > Are there any templates out there to help with this, preferably in WriteNow > or Draw format? > > Thanks, > _andy > > Trilithon Software (now defunct) had a program called Labelworks that had almost every imaginable Avery template stored, and worked very well. You might want to post on marketplace to see if anyone wants to sell the prog. Cheers Gregor
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: What driver to select for a NCR 810 SCSI? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 20:44:39 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2306972044400001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2306972029360001@199.166.204.230> In article <maury-2306972029360001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: > Well I have a PC to install on finally, one with a SCSI HD and ATAPI > CD-ROM. The issue this time is that the SCSI card does not appear in the > drivers list, which is astounding because it's an NCR 810 card which I'm > being told is terribly common. And it is supported, it's just that the silly NeXTAnswers search engine is too dumb to find it if you type in "NCR 810". FYI, it's the Symbios Logic driver, for whatever reason. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get the CD running, it's on ATAPI. The HD is mounting, the booter is ID'ing it correctly, but then dying on the CD. The CD is set to slave, I'll try the master/slave selection and see what happens. Wish me luck! Oh, and perhaps they might want to add "and press Return" to most of the installer's prompts! Maury
From: izumi@pinoko.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OPENSTEP 4.2 for NT Academic available? Date: 24 Jun 1997 03:44:41 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Distribution: world Message-ID: <5onfr9$b49@agate.berkeley.edu> I know that OPENSTEP 4.2 for NT Pre-release was given out to WWDC attendees, and OPENSTEP 4.2 for Mach is available in commercial and academic versions. Does anyone know if OPENSTEP 4.2 for NT Academic is available now, if not when? I've waited for 4.2, and would rather not get 4.1 for NT now if I can avoid it -- unless there is a free upgrade, which I believe there isn't. -- Izumi Ohzawa <izumi@pinoko.berkeley.edu>
From: cwolf@wolfware.com (Christopher Wolf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: What driver to select for a NCR 810 SCSI? Date: 24 Jun 1997 05:41:39 GMT Organization: WolfWare Message-ID: <5onmmj$iq$1@vader.wolfware.ipc.net> References: <maury-2306972029360001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2306972044400001@199.166.204.230> In-Reply-To: <maury-2306972044400001@199.166.204.230> On 06/23/97, Maury Markowitz wrote: >In article <maury-2306972029360001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com >(Maury Markowitz) wrote: > >> Well I have a PC to install on finally, one with a SCSI HD and ATAPI >> CD-ROM. The issue this time is that the SCSI card does not appear in the >> drivers list, which is astounding because it's an NCR 810 card which I'm >> being told is terribly common. > > And it is supported, it's just that the silly NeXTAnswers search engine >is too dumb to find it if you type in "NCR 810". FYI, it's the Symbios >Logic driver, for whatever reason. Its the Symbios Logic driver because Symbios bought NCR's SCSI chip division and is now the manufacturer of these products. (www.symbios.com) > Oh, and perhaps they might want to add "and press Return" to most of the >installer's prompts! Return? What's that? I don't see any Return key here? My one keyboard has this little funny backwards-L shaped arrow and the other has the same arrow and the word "Enter"? Maybe they should explain all that too? And you know, I've never figured out where the "Any" key is either.... I think you have to assume some minimal level of competence here :-) -- _______________________________________________________________________ Christopher A. Wolf -- WolfWare -- NeXTSTEP/OpenStep/Rhapsody Developer For info about NewsFlash the lightning fast NeXTSTEP news-reader visit our newly revised web site at: http://www.wolfware.com _______________________________________________________________________
From: lhow@ecr.mu.oz.au (Luke HOWARD) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: netinfo config in 3.3 & 4.2 Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 24 Jun 1997 07:13:09 GMT Organization: Comp Sci, University of Melbourne Message-ID: <5ons25$6gn@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> References: <33ACB436.57A0@worldnet.att.net> zizi zhao (ziziz@worldnet.att.net) wrote: : I need to upgrade from NS/intel 3.3 to 4.2. Since I would be the first : one : to do so in the company, I wonder how netinfo works in 4.2. If I save : the : netinfo config in 3.3 on a disk and copy it to /etc after upgrade to : 4.2, : will it work? It should work fine. No changes to the database format were made between 3.3 and 4.2, to my knowledge. -- Luke
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: What driver to select for a NCR 810 SCSI? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:24:21 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2406971024210001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2306972029360001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2306972044400001@199.166.204.230> <5onmmj$iq$1@vader.wolfware.ipc.net> In article <5onmmj$iq$1@vader.wolfware.ipc.net>, cwolf@wolfware.com (Christopher Wolf) wrote: > Its the Symbios Logic driver because Symbios bought NCR's SCSI chip > division and is now the manufacturer of these products. (www.symbios.com) Ahh. Makes sense. > I think you have to assume some minimal level of competence here :-) Perhaps, but not once they go to wide release. This is the most frustrating install process I've ever seen on a PC. And it still doesn't work either. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Ok, now this is crazy Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:11:14 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2406971311150001@199.166.204.230> Giving up on ever getting the install to work with a SCSI HD and a ATAPI CD-ROM, I finally broke down and grabbed the SCSI CD-ROM off of the Indy and hooked it up. I selected the Symbios driver for both the CD-ROM and HD selections from the menu, and waited. This time the system boots to the "window", tells me it sees the SCSI controller, continues on and tells me the the bus is operational, shows me the devices attached to it (correctly), then has the gall to state that there's no CD attached, even though it correctly ID'ed both the drive and it's SCSI ID on the previous line. So thinking that it might be a SCSI ID conflict (it's not, one is zero, the other four, but what the heck) I changed the CD to ID 6. This time it indeed ID'ed the CD to be on ID6. Still no luck. My next-door-cubical-mate noticed something about "Unable to enable interrupt" and suggested that interrupts may be turned off on the SCSI card and this could be the problem. I pulled the card to look for jumpers, and although I found three sets, none of them are labled. Sigh. A quick call to Symbios was very helpful, and I'd like to thank Chuck for all the help on the phone - notably considering it isn't even his product, the chip is, but it's someone else's card! It looks like this could be a dreaded IRQ interrupt issue, interesting when you consider it's on PCI and it's PnP as well. It seems that normal 16bit installations don't use interrupts to drive the cards. Since this machine ran only DOS/Win3.1 in the past and none of the 32bit OS's, it's possible this has been a problem all along, and no one noticed. I've set PnP on for the PCI bus (for some reason it was off) but I have no documentation on the card itself, so I don't know if it needs a jumper set - the card has no identifying marks, either for the manufacturer or the the purpose of the jumpers. Here's to hoping this install on Mac hardware is easy, because I'm about to give up on it. Maury
From: bozack@blkbox.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: serial devices not found Date: 24 Jun 1997 18:28:19 GMT Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 Message-ID: <5op3k3$79g@news.blkbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have two dumb terminals sitting here not doing anything. So I come up with the wonderful idea of hooking one up to my FreeBSD machine and one up to my Intel running OPENSTEP 4.1. I'm new to the B SD thing, so it took me a bit to figure out how to hook it up to the FreeBSD box; but I got it working like a champ. Now I go to do the same thing on my OPENSTEP box. The UNIX layer is an older BSD, so it should be somewhat like what I just did over on the other machine. I figure out the device name that I'd be using (/dev/ttydfb, I think it was, since the terminal does that hardware handshaking business) and try doing simple things like "echo test > /dev/ttydfb", but it complains about "no such device." I try the same for cua, cub, cufa, cufb, etc etc etc ... everything that the SysAdmin bookshelf mentions, but I keep getting that same error. I tried removing all the relevant devices in /dev and recreated them. Didn't work. Then I had a bowl of ice cream. So I thought "hmm, maybe when OPENSTEP booted, it didn't find anything hooked up to the serial card so it didn't initialize something right" ... so I rebooted. That didn't help any. So I thought, maybe this is usual and I should just toss a getty on that tty and it'll magically work. So I edit /dev/ttys and enable the tty that the term is sitting on (just like I did on the FreeBSD box) and HUPd init. That didn't work ,either .. so I rebooted, but with nothing to show for it. I have a Sun3 with a vacant serial port, so I can always hook the second dumb-term up to that thing (it's runing NetBSD .. so I'm three times the BSD!), but what if one day I want to do PPP on the OPENSTEP box? I'm sure I'd run into the same problem; so I might as well try to solve it now, right? Thanks, Dan bozack@blkbox.com
From: jhburns@kobc0002.delcoelect.com (Jeffrey H. Burns) Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Compile MATLAB under NextStep? Date: 24 Jun 1997 13:19:25 -0500 Organization: Delco Electronics Corp. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <pvdbu4vj236.fsf@kobc0002.delcoelect.com> References: <33A8204D.5AF0@colorado.edu> I compiled the old public domain version of Matlab for black hardware about five years ago. It was submitted to Purdue's archive server. If you can not find the it on an archive someplace I can make it available again. Compiling this code was a real pain. It had several hardware dependences in the Fortran code. I would suggest looking at scilab. I have not used this package, but from following it's news group it appears to have more support than the public domain version of Matlab. Andrew Engelmann <engelman@colorado.edu> writes: > NextStepers, > > Has anyone ever compiled Matlab code to run under NextStep? If so, how > can I found out how to do that? > > -Drew Engelmann -- Jeffrey H Burns Internet:jhburns@dawg.delcoelect.com Project Engineer Delco Electronics Corp. Telephone: (765) 451-3279 Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 FAX: (765) 451-3600
From: bozack@blkbox.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: serial devices not found Date: 24 Jun 1997 22:58:47 GMT Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 Message-ID: <5opjf7$7qb@news.blkbox.com> References: <5op3k3$79g@news.blkbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: bozack@blkbox.com In <5op3k3$79g@news.blkbox.com> bozack@blkbox.com wrote: [NOTHING! BECAUSE I CUT IT ALL OUT! ] I received some responses from this in email .. thank you SO much to those that told me how to solve this. Turns out I just didn't have the TTY Port Driver installed! How silly of me . I never would have even thought to look in Configure.app since both serial ports were already in there. Anyhow, the getty is now sent across the serial cable at 9600 bps and is intercepted by the term .. the text is a bit mangled, but it's usable until I get that worked out. I've tried decreasing the speed down to 2400, but that just mangled the text at less than half the speed.:) The cabling is OK (tested on a different machine with the same terminal) and the serial port is OK (tested it with the same cabling and same dumbterm in a different operating system on the same machine), so it's been narrowed down to a getty / user / kernel device problem .. either the getty is bad, the user is bad, or the serial device in the kernel is bad. I'm guessing it's choice 2. man the gettytab, soldier! (get it? man gettytab. i'm good.) thanks again, Dan
From: thomas@zippy.sonoma.edu (Thomas Poff) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Avery labels on a NeXT printer? Date: 24 Jun 1997 23:25:56 GMT Organization: Information Resources and Technology Message-ID: <5opl24$i81$1@nuke.csu.net> References: <5ogr65$p83$1@picasso.op.net> Hi. I made some very nice looking Mailing labels using Diagram. You could probably use Draw to do the same thing. It's pretty easy to do. The geometry of the printer is darn close to the ruler measurements in Diagram. Again the rulers in Draw should perform the same purpose... Draw is Diagram's ancestor after all and seems to use the same grid and ruler code. I just tried doing it in Draw and 'twas pretty easy. I forgot just how _fast_ Draw really is. Thomas Andy Dunn (andydunn@op.net) wrote: : Has anyone tried printing to video tape labels using a NeXT printer? : Are there any templates out there to help with this, preferably in WriteNow : or Draw format? : Thanks, : _andy -- <>+<> ////// __v__ __\/__ `\|||/ /---\ """"""" | _ - | (_____) . / ^ _ \ . (q p) | o o | <^-@-@-^> (| o O |) .( O O ), |\| (o)(o) |/| _ooO_<_>_Ooo_ooO_U_Ooo_ooO__v__Ooo_ooO_u_Ooo_ooO__(_)__Ooa__oOO_()_OOo___ [_____}_____!____.}_____{_____|_____}_____i____.}_____!_____{_____}_____] __.}____.|_____{_____!____.}_____|_____{.____}_____|_____}_____|_____!___ [_____{_____}_____|_____}_____i_____}_____|_____}_____i_____{_____}_____] Thomas Poff 1308 Michele Ct. Rohnert Park, CA 94928 (707)664-1867 To see some interesting software for the Newton, please try: http://www.cs.sonoma.edu/Newton ftp://ftp.cs.sonoma.edu/pub/Newton
From: bozack@blkbox.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: looking for new getty Date: 25 Jun 1997 03:52:51 GMT Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 Message-ID: <5oq4mj$8j8@news.blkbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm sure everyone is getting tired of these posts coming from me .. :) I'm the one trying to setup the dumbterms ... I seem to have getty ALMOST working .. it spits out the login prompt without mangling anything (I looked around in NeXT-Answers and saw that the default settings for a tty were 7E1 and the term was set to 8N1) .. it's been so long since I've touched a modem/serial connection that my common sense went straight down the pisser. The problem is after getty calls login .. I just get trash. I looked on the FreeBSD box (which works) and saw that the version of getty on that machine supports an "np" bool option in /etc/gettytab that seems to be exactly what I need .. it sets the line to 8 bits, no parity, with one stop bit ... On the OpenStep box, I have it set to zero parity and i'm telling it not to strip the eigth bit .. seems like the same thing, but something is not right. This is the line in /etc/gettytab that I'm telling the tty to use in /etc/ttys: 2|std.9600|9600-baud:\ :p8:zp:ap:sp#9600:tt=vt100: The p8 is to not strip the eigth bit and the zp is for zero parity ... Well, basically instead of working on fixing this with what I have, I've been scouring for a nice generic getty. getty_ps and mgetty and agetty all want termio, when all I have is termios ... oh how I wish I were a developer so I could just port the buggers. So what do all you other getty-using folks do? After i click the post button at the bottom of this composition window of radicalnews I'll continue looking for a way to fix this with what I have .. hopefully I'll find the answer and chuckle out loud and be able to post what I find. Or I'll bang my head on the desk and yell at my computer because it can't yell back. Thanks, Dan bozack@blkbox.com
From: bozack@blkbox.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: looking for new getty Date: 25 Jun 1997 04:20:35 GMT Organization: The Black Box, Houston, Tx (713) 480-2686 Message-ID: <5oq6aj$8nj@news.blkbox.com> References: <5oq4mj$8j8@news.blkbox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: bozack@blkbox.com I figured it out .. took me, what, 30 minutes after the original post? :) I found some more options for stripping the eigth bit on the terminal, and instead of the usual 8N1, 7E1, 7O1, etc etc that I'd been trying, I tried the "Space" parity .. I have -NO- idea what that is, but HEY! IT WORKED! Now I can be cyber from all over my house. I jsut wanted to thank you guys so much .. and hopefully you won't have to hear a whole lot from me unless I'm trying my best to answer someone else's questions. Thanks, Dan bozack@blkbox.com
From: bestor@cs.wisc.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: 128MB RAM in a NeXT Turbo? Date: 23 Jun 1997 21:40:20 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison Message-ID: <5omqg4$1er8@news.doit.wisc.edu> References: <5ognlh$5jr@agate.berkeley.edu> <onf3o4W00iVG028qI0@andrew.cmu.edu> >> Can I install 128MB RAM in my NeXT Turbo...ie. four 32MB SIMMS? > >Most probably, yes. Most definitely, yes. >I think a few Turbo motherboards were designed with 8 30-pin SIMM slots >(which would max out at 32MB) instead of 4 72-pin SIMM slots (which >maxes at 128 MB), but the latter is what most people have. No. All "Turbo" motherboards can have four 72-pin slots for up to 128MB. This includes _all_ 33MHz machines and also the 25MHz NeXTstation "Turbo" and 25MHz NeXTcube "Turbo" (the latter two are documented in the NeXT service manual though I've never personally seen a non-33MHz Turbo machine). The only NeXT machines with 30-pin SIMMs are the original 030 NeXT Computer (aka "cube") and 1st generation 25MHz NeXTcube (16 slots), and 1st generation 25MHz NeXTstation and NeXTstation color (8 slots). [Aside - strictly speaking, the "Turbo" designation has to do with the motherboard design and not whether it has a 25MHz vs 33MHz processor, though all 33MHz motherboards were the newer "Turbo" design] - Gareth -- Gareth Bestor bestor@cs.wisc.edu Computer Sciences Department http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~bestor University of Wisconsin-Madison
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Ok, now this is crazy Date: 25 Jun 1997 04:30:36 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5oqvgs$aeg@idiom.com> References: <maury-2406971311150001@199.166.204.230> maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) writes: > Here's to hoping this install on Mac hardware is easy, because I'm about >to give up on it. The long and short of it, Maury, is that hardware in the Intel world is still an inexcusable, bleeding mess. You wouldn't have this trouble on a NeXT slab, a Sparc 20, or even an HP Gecko. This is why I expect people to continue to buy Mac hardware once Rhapsody comes out both for Mac's and PC's. The mac's will just work. The PC's will keep coming up with more half-implemented approximations of Macintosh's capabilities (Plug and play? Hah!) that break the install procedures of everything that doesn't generate revenue for microsquish. Intel boxes suck. I'm gong to keep using my NeXT slabs until rhapsody comes out for the powermacs. -jcr
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:23:42 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also a parable on why you should never buy a PC. Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work (after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... ...and now the boot floppy is dead. I give up. Maury
From: scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 25 Jun 1997 21:41:54 GMT Organization: University at Buffalo Message-ID: <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> NNTP-Posting-User: scholl Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: : Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also : a parable on why you should never buy a PC. : Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting : a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one : step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD : both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. : Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the you make it sound like a brand new computer, which i'm assuming it wasn't cause further down, you say it isn't yours. so all pc's are damned cause a pc you borrowed from someone didn't work? who knows what was done to it before you got your hands on it... : primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing : at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I : attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this : time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the randomly trying different configs rarely works... : floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after : all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside : down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented those stupid things?!?! =) : Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work : (after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the : jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 : minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... : ...and now the boot floppy is dead. you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? sounds like you either knocked loose a power or a data cable. -ed
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 25 Jun 1997 22:23:42 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: > [...] so all pc's are damned cause > a pc you borrowed from someone didn't work? [...] I think he is damning them because the typical PC clone hardware is sh*t, nothing more and nothing less. He's just giving one more example for why he feels that way and I can't say I much blame him for thinking it. Given how long the technology has had to mature, there is IMHO no excuse for *anybody* to have to go through what Maury has been going through. And you really do have to blame the hardware as much or more than OPENSTEP. If you are lucky and get decent enough hardware, OPENSTEP installs great and it is a joy to use--lots nicer than any other commercial WinTel OS. But hardware like that tends to cost *more* that the typical Mac because you have to buy premium parts, and most folks won't pay the price. So the majority of PeeCee hardware is pure crapola. -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: David Hinz <dhinz@dna406.dna.mci.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: comp.sys.next.announce postings? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:47:53 -0600 Organization: MCI Message-ID: <33B19209.2F1C@dna406.dna.mci.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Over the last two or three weeks I have not seen any postings to comp.sys.next.announce. Has the newsgroup changed to a different name? Is there nothing to be announced? Maybe my news server dropped the group. Does anyone know if postings are going to comp.sys.next.announce? dave. -- David Hinz E-mail: dhinz@dna406.dna.mci.com
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:32:57 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> Don Yacktman wrote in article <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com>... :I think he is damning them because the typical PC clone :hardware is sh*t, nothing more and nothing less. He's :just giving one more example for why he feels that way :and I can't say I much blame him for thinking it. Given :how long the technology has had to mature, there is IMHO :no excuse for *anybody* to have to go through what Maury :has been going through. And you really do have to blame :the hardware as much or more than OPENSTEP. If you are :lucky and get decent enough hardware, OPENSTEP installs :great and it is a joy to use--lots nicer than any other :commercial WinTel OS. But hardware like that tends to :cost *more* that the typical Mac because you have to buy :premium parts, and most folks won't pay the price. So :the majority of PeeCee hardware is pure crapola. Spoken like a truely closed minded person. You have obviously not looked at parts prices lately. I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic card that is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is none, it has a five year warranty and easy to contact support. You can get a 4mb WRAM Millennium for $169, NEC memory for $55 each 16mb, and a Panasonic 24x CD-ROM for $112. Of course you could just tell me that these brands are crap, but you'll be blowing hot air. As for installing these things, most normal people have absolutely no problems figuring out which end of the cable goes there. There is a little red strip on the 1st cable of the ribbon, and on any decent motherboard there is a little one on the end of the connector where that 1st cable of the ribbon goes. The process is the same for the drive, and most drives even have a notch on the connector to make it completely idiot proof. If you know how to install SIMMs or DIMMs, a ribbon cable for an IDE drive isn't that difficult. Getting good hardware for a PC isn't about luck, and neither is installing it. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: datamagik@usa.net (Jay Riley) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:37:47 -0500 Organization: DATAMAGIK € Systems, Software, & Design Engineering Message-ID: <datamagik-2506971837470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> In article <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: > Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also >a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > > Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting >a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one >step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD >both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. > > Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the >primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing >at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I >attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this >time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the >floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after >all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside >down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > > Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work >(after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the >jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 >minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > > ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > > I give up. Maury, I know you've probably had enough wintel aggravation, but if you're up to it would you try this: try installing it under VPC. My impression (very possibly mistaken) is that installations go a little easier with VirtualPC for the simple reason that it can skip some of the more painful setup procedures because it is (after all) an emulator. If that doesn't appeal to you (and your agreement with Apple doesn't prohibit it) maybe you could send ME your preview copy and let me monkey with it on a colleague's machine running VPC. I hope to be back in Apple's Developer Program within the next several weeks (my first time back since they canned the free "Certified Developer" program and went to their current scheme). I don't know if that will make this suggestion more permissible. If none of this is possible maybe another Mac afficiando with Rhapsody Preview will read this, try it, and tell us what happened. Regards, Jay -- ===================================================================== = DATAMAGIK Systems, Software & Design Engineering Austin, Texas = 1-888-369-5741 <http://lonestar.texas.net/~riley> riley@texas.net = = Created on an Apple Macintosh PowerBook 5300cs running Mac®OS 7.6.1 =
From: datamagik@usa.net (Jay Riley) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:45:46 -0500 Organization: DATAMAGIK € Systems, Software, & Design Engineering Message-ID: <datamagik-2506971845470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> In article <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: >Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: >: Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also >: a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > >: Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting >: a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one >: step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD >: both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. >: Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the > >you make it sound like a brand new computer, which i'm assuming it wasn't >cause further down, you say it isn't yours. so all pc's are damned cause >a pc you borrowed from someone didn't work? who knows what was done to >it before you got your hands on it... > >: primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing >: at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I >: attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this >: time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the > >randomly trying different configs rarely works... Sounds to me like he systematically went through the possible combinations. Is it possible that wintel PC's are exponentially more complicated and prone to screwups than Macintoshes and MacOS PCs? >: floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after >: all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside >: down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > >and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented >those stupid things?!?! =) A weak analogy at best...you can't burn out a pair of pants by putting them on backwards. It's more like having a fitting in your "unleaded only" vehicle to prevent you from accidentally putting in the wrong fuel and wrecking your car. >: Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work >: (after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the >: jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 >: minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > >: ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > >you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? sounds like you >either knocked loose a power or a data cable. Ah, the simple beauty of Macintosh...I plug stuff in and it WORKS. Like this Packard Bell monitor I cannabalized from my cousin's wintel box. Just plugged it into my (1995) PowerBook 5300cs and *presto!*, I've got two screens with windows and icons on each. I can even change resolution, relative position, and which one is the main screen, ON THE FLY. Regards, Jay Riley/Owner, DATAMAGIK -- ===================================================================== = DATAMAGIK Systems, Software & Design Engineering Austin, Texas = 1-888-369-5741 <http://lonestar.texas.net/~riley> riley@texas.net = = Created on an Apple Macintosh PowerBook 5300cs running Mac®OS 7.6.1 =
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:37:00 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> In article <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: > you make it sound like a brand new computer, which i'm assuming it wasn't > cause further down, you say it isn't yours. The machine is about 2 months old with pre-installed Win95 and Office., > so all pc's are damned cause > a pc you borrowed from someone didn't work? No, they're dambed because when you need to do something, like switch from two masters on primary and secondary, to running master/slave on the primary, it doesn't work. They're also dambed because the IDIOTS that designed these CRAPPY standards like IDE were too STUPID to make so the damb plug would fit in only one way! > who knows what was done to it before you got your hands on it... I do. > randomly trying different configs rarely works... Yes, but following the directions out of the manual is what I was doing, not "randomly trying different configs". > and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented > those stupid things?!?! =) No actually, you can't, you'll notice it instantly. There is no such thing on IDE, the connector is the same on the top and bottom so there's no way to know if it's hooked up wrong. Why is it that with every connector in my Mac I am unable to plug it in the wrong way? Why can't the people building PC's do the same thing? This costs NOTHING. > you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? No, read the message. The boot floopy is dead. Not the boot floppy drive. > sounds like you either knocked loose a power or a data cable. Hey, if you want to offer a suggestion, fine. If you want to make snide remarks after reading a single message in a long thread, go away. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:39:13 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2506972039130001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <datamagik-2506971837470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net> In article <datamagik-2506971837470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net>, datamagik@usa.net (Jay Riley) wrote: > I know you've probably had enough wintel aggravation, but if you're up to > it would you try this: try installing it under VPC. I tried. It was going to take something like four hours to install on my 7200/120, which wasn't very inspiring. It did work though, which says a lot - changing to master/slave required nothing more than clicking on an icon. > If that doesn't appeal to you (and your agreement with Apple doesn't > prohibit it) maybe you could send ME your preview copy and let me monkey > with it on a colleague's machine running VPC. I'd love to, but without that boot floppy I don't know what good it is. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:43:03 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2506972043030001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> In article <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: > Spoken like a truely closed minded person. You have obviously not looked > at parts prices lately. I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec > SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic card that > is faster and costs half as much. Ummm, what the heck are you talking about? SCSI controllers? Memory prices? > crap, but you'll be blowing hot air. As for installing these things, most > normal people have absolutely no problems figuring out which end of the > cable goes there. Well good for them, I guess being a physicist and working in the computer industry for the last seven years makes me abnormal. Look, there was NO IDENTIFYING MARKS on the cable, and it plugged in both ways. This is not my fault, don't you dare try to blame this on me! > There is a little red strip on the 1st cable of the > ribbon Not on this one. > and on any decent motherboard there is a little one on the end of > the connector where that 1st cable of the ribbon goes. Not on this one. Nor is the port on the motherboard indicated in any way. > same for the drive, and most drives even have a notch on the connector to > make it completely idiot proof. My NEX 8X didn't. > If you know how to install SIMMs or DIMMs, > a ribbon cable for an IDE drive isn't that difficult. I know how, they can't plug in the wrong way. Maury
From: "Brian Johnson" <brianjay@gate.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:59:07 -0400 Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Message-ID: <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> Hi Maury, I got the two ide option to work by making the CDRom the slave of the Hard Drive. (wouldn't work as two primary which is how my system was configured) You might also think about getting a copy partition magic which will help you repartition your drive for install. I found out all I could be searching for nextstep and IDE on dejanews. I printed out the info so it would be handy when I installed. Hope this helps, Brian Brian Johnson http://www.gate.net/~brianjay Maury Markowitz wrote in article ... > Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also >a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > > Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting >a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one >step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD >both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. > > Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the >primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing >at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I >attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this >time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the >floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after >all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside >down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > > Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work >(after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the >jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 >minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > > ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > > I give up. > >Maury >
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:16:43 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5osfts$t3q@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <maury-2506972043030001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz wrote in article ... :In article <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" :<wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: : :> Spoken like a truely closed minded person. You have obviously not looked :> at parts prices lately. I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec :> SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic card that :> is faster and costs half as much. : : Ummm, what the heck are you talking about? SCSI controllers? Memory prices? Ah, if you hadn't cut the part of the post where I had these prices, you'd see what I'm talking about. Sure, I could list a couple dozen examples, but I don't have that much time. Go back and look, I mentioned SCSI controller prices, video card prices, CD-ROM prices, and memory prices. It's all there. The previous poster said that you had to pay much higher prices to get good PC equipment, I posted examples that he is wrong. : :> crap, but you'll be blowing hot air. As for installing these things, most :> normal people have absolutely no problems figuring out which end of the :> cable goes there. : : Well good for them, I guess being a physicist and working in the :computer industry for the last seven years makes me abnormal. Look, there :was NO IDENTIFYING MARKS on the cable, and it plugged in both ways. This :is not my fault, don't you dare try to blame this on me! Okay, sorry if that was a little snappy. But the computers that I have set up have had red on the 1st cable of the ribbon. And the motherboards have had clear markings. On the other hand, only one set could not be plugged in both ways. I'm sure that you can get a motherboard without markings, and ribbons without the 1st cable marked, but these are not typical in PCs. : :> There is a little red strip on the 1st cable of the :> ribbon : : Not on this one. : :> and on any decent motherboard there is a little one on the end of :> the connector where that 1st cable of the ribbon goes. : : Not on this one. Nor is the port on the motherboard indicated in any way. : :> same for the drive, and most drives even have a notch on the connector to :> make it completely idiot proof. : : My NEX 8X didn't. Most drives either have a notch, or a diagram on the drive indicating which way to install the cable. : :> If you know how to install SIMMs or DIMMs, :> a ribbon cable for an IDE drive isn't that difficult. : : I know how, they can't plug in the wrong way. : I don't know what kind of motherboard that you are using, but all of the motherboards that I have used, four different brands, had easy to read markings on the board for settings, not just for setting up the IDE drives, but whatever jumpers you might need to set (not that you really need to set those all the time). And while shopping for motherboards, the half dozen or so brands that I looked through (the one's whos diagrams were large enough to see the details) had markings. These motherboards are neither rare, nor more expensive than others. I'm sorry that you got badly designed equipment, but this is not typical. You can get decent PC equipment, that works much more often than not, for good prices, and with less effort than all the FUD that I see here would have you believe. If you are going to get another motherboard, I would suggest a Tyan, Asus, Abit, or Supermicro. Although I have only used the Tyan, all that I have seen on the newsgroups and websites suggest that all these brands offer similar performance and ease of use. You can get a new TX motherboard with 512kb L2 and UltraDMA IDE controller that has no jumpers from Abit for $140. All the settings are done through a menu interface, those that aren't set automatically. PC equipment isn't the wasteland of defects and conflicts that is portrayed in newsgroups like this. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:44:15 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz wrote in article ... : Hey, if you want to offer a suggestion, fine. If you want to make snide :remarks after reading a single message in a long thread, go away. I have a few suggestions. If you can not get the computer to power up at all, turn the power on and nothing happens or it beeps and nothing happens, remove the IDE cables and the floppy cables. The first thing you need to do is to get it so it comes on, worry about booting later. Next attach the primary IDE cable to the primary drive and the primary controller on the motherboard, then turn the power on. If your IDE cable has two connectors, the master drive should go on the end connector. If the computer boots, or at least comes on and doesn't give a hard drive failure message, you're one step down. If not, reverse one connector and try again. Continue reversing connectors until it comes on and does not have a hard drive failure message. Then do the same with the secondary, if you have a secondary drive. A CD-ROM should be on the secondary controller. Finally do the same on the floppy drives and controllers. I'd like to know what kind of computer you have, because I haven't worked on any that really needed this kind of process. Sorry if some of my posts have been snappy, but sometimes it is hard to seperate the FUD from the facts in advocacy groups. And I'm not just talking about Mac users complaining about their horrible PC experiences, I've seen PC users complain about Mac problems that must sound just as brain dead as some of those PC problems I've read about. I would suggest that if you can't get it running within a day that you try and return it or exchange it for one that has proper markings on the cables and motherboard, because when I read your posts I thought that your problem was unacceptable, even for a PC. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: tcondon@isp.net (Tom Condon) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:01:07 -0700 Message-ID: <tcondon-2506971901070001@204.153.195.187> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> Bummer. I got my Prelude to Rhapsody up and running the same day I got it. I can only guess that I was lucky enough to have the right configuration. (Micron Millenia Pro2 Plus).
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:36:03 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> In-Reply-To: <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 25-Jun-97 Re: I give up, Prelude is i.. by "William Lowe"@spamlesse > Spoken like a truely closed minded person. You have obviously not looked > at parts prices lately. I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec > SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic card that > is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is none, it has a five > year warranty and easy to contact support. Have you ever heard of Canon's object.station line of Intel hardware? They made decent (but still fairly expensive) machines, and they used a PCI BusLogic controller instead of an Adaptec. That card tends to be the second thing to cause problems, right after the floppy controller. > You can get a 4mb WRAM Millennium for $169, NEC memory for $55 each 16mb, > and a Panasonic 24x CD-ROM for $112. Funny thing about IDE multispeed drives-- they tend to cost about half of what the SCSI versions do, but they also tend to have miserable track-to-track seek times, and they break on a regular basis. I'd already gotten service on an 8x Creative Labs CDP-820 (a NEC drive which was bundled with the SB-32 PnP in a "multimedia kit") after six months, and they replaced it with the CDP-820C or some such, and now that is starting to give me problems. [ ... ] > Getting good hardware for a PC isn't about luck, and neither is installing > it. No, it's about that cliche "you get what you pay for". -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: hans@onevision.de (Hans Stoeger) Subject: Re: Ok, now this is crazy Message-ID: <ECCEM7.70u@onevision.de> Sender: news@onevision.de Organization: OneVision Vertriebs-GmbH, Regensburg, Germany References: <maury-2406971311150001@199.166.204.230> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:44:31 GMT In article <maury-2406971311150001@199.166.204.230> maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) writes: > Giving up on ever getting the install to work with a SCSI HD and a ATAPI > CD-ROM, I finally broke down and grabbed the SCSI CD-ROM off of the Indy > and hooked it up. > That maybe the problem! A lot of SCSI CD-ROM drives of UNIX workstations are jumpered for a different block size than normal ( I guess it was 512 versus 2048 on normal drives). This might be the reason for your problems, but I do not know about the Indy drive... ====================================================================== Hans Stoeger OneVision Vertriebs-GmbH Support Zeiss-Strasse 9 Email: hans@onevision.de D-93053 Regensburg No big mails, Please! Germany
From: davewang@wam.umd.edu.@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 26 Jun 1997 02:48:26 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Message-ID: <5osl9r$ski$2@hecate.umd.edu> Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: : In article <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, : scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: : > you make it sound like a brand new computer, which i'm assuming it wasn't : > cause further down, you say it isn't yours. : The machine is about 2 months old with pre-installed Win95 and Office., : > so all pc's are damned cause : > a pc you borrowed from someone didn't work? : No, they're dambed because when you need to do something, like switch : from two masters on primary and secondary, to running master/slave on the : primary, it doesn't work. They're also dambed because the IDIOTS that : designed these CRAPPY standards like IDE were too STUPID to make so the : damb plug would fit in only one way! I'm sorry that you got a cheap cable, but if you look at the IDE drive, there is a notch there, and some cables have the notch, and some do not. I also have a 50 pin SCSI cable without a notch, and I could have plugged it in backwards as well if I didn't remember or know the orientation of the cable. I don't like the older IDE drives, (older than 3 or 4 years) you had to look up the Master/Slave jumper settings, but all the IDE drives that I see in the last 3 or 4 years have the master/slave settings clearly labeled. I don't ever recall having a problem setting Master/slave with these drives/CD-ROM. There are only 3 possible settings for any IDE drive. Master with slave, Master without slave, or slave. (sometimes Master with or without salve is the same setting on some drives) You have to change jumper settings to go from Master/Slave on the same cable. to being two masters on two different cables. I'm sorry that you didn't know this, but I know that you don't expect to move SCSI drives from one computer to another without checking SCSI-ID's do you? You can't put two devices on the same chain without making sure that they all have different ID's, and you have to make sure that they're properly terminated. take a device off and forget to re-enable termination, or if you don't have a terminator..... sometimes it works, sometimes there are these subtle errors.... : > who knows what was done to it before you got your hands on it... : I do. : > randomly trying different configs rarely works... : Yes, but following the directions out of the manual is what I was doing, : not "randomly trying different configs". NeXTStep was, and probably still is rather finicky to install. I've managed to do it on about 5 different machines, (not on the hardware compatibility list) It's been my experience that if it's on the hardware compatibility list, it'll ofcourse work, but if this is a generic clone, you have about an 80% success rate, and the other 20% of the time, no matter what you do, NeXTStep just won't install. : > and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented : > those stupid things?!?! =) : No actually, you can't, you'll notice it instantly. There is no such : thing on IDE, the connector is the same on the top and bottom so there's : no way to know if it's hooked up wrong. Well, maybe I would know a bit more, since I did work for a PC manufacturer for a while doing the harddrive certification, but in my experience, all The IDE drives have pin 1 (denoted by the red stripe on the cable) closer to the power supply plug. I've never hooked up an IDE drive wrong in the last 4 years. It's impossible for you to know this ofcourse, but once you get used to it, it's impossible to go wrong. (this brings up a humorous sidenote, I once went to work wearing my shirt inside out. I was too tired to notice. I sat through a meeting, and a chat with my supervisor, and he finally pointed it out to me. I was rather embarassed. So yes, it is possible to wear your shirt backwards and not notice.) : Why is it that with every connector in my Mac I am unable to plug it in : the wrong way? Why can't the people building PC's do the same thing? : This costs NOTHING. it costs slightly extra to make/design your own connectors. with Apple's volume, they should be able to offset most of the slighly extra cost, but there is nothing which compares to buying 10000 connectors from a vendor who makes 50 Million of them a year, and he's competitor makes 100 Million units of the same thing a year. This is the same idea behind PPCP, to get rid of specially designed chipset/connectors, and use industry standard parts. The notch is already there on the IDE drive/cable. when and if you ever have need to buy one, be sure to ask for one with a notch for your own safty and protection. : > you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? : No, read the message. The boot floopy is dead. Not the boot floppy drive. : > sounds like you either knocked loose a power or a data cable. : Hey, if you want to offer a suggestion, fine. If you want to make snide : remarks after reading a single message in a long thread, go away. : Maury
From: "Kenneth R. Kinder" <asdf@asdf.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:24:07 -0600 Organization: Dimensional Communications Message-ID: <33B1E0D7.1AE78E68@asdf.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This email address is bogus to prevent spamming. My real one is Ken@KenAndTed.com I agree with you 100%, Edward. This guy yelling about all his problems with his IDE ports reminds me of someone saying "So, I stuck a paperclip in the socket, and it shocked me!!! Electricity sucks, and should never be used!!" Edward P Scholl wrote: > > Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: > : Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also > : a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > > : Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting > : a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one > : step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD > : both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. > : Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the > > you make it sound like a brand new computer, which i'm assuming it wasn't > cause further down, you say it isn't yours. so all pc's are damned cause > a pc you borrowed from someone didn't work? who knows what was done to > it before you got your hands on it... > > : primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing > : at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I > : attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this > : time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the > > randomly trying different configs rarely works... > > : floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after > : all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside > : down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > > and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented > those stupid things?!?! =) > > : Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work > : (after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the > : jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 > : minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > > : ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > > you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? sounds like you > either knocked loose a power or a data cable. > > -ed -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Kenneth R. Kinder Ken@KenAndTed.com - http://www.KenAndTed.com/KensBookmark/ "An open architecture is a terrible thing to lose." PGP FingerPrints: AC 63 8E FC 56 OC 6E F2 55 68 16 E4 07 62 12 32 ------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davelow@ix.netcom.com (Dave Low) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:11:50 -0400 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <davelow-ya023680002506972311500001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: > Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: [snip] > : Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work > : (after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the > : jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 > : minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > > : ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > > you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? sounds like you > either knocked loose a power or a data cable. > > -ed Actually a buddy of mine experienced the same problem installing an additional HD. During the two to three hour episode of trying to get the thing running, at one point the floppy wouldn't boot. It was somewhat amusing watching the "PC guru" sweating and cursing over something that should be a trivial task. -- Dave Low davelow@ix.netcom.com
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:24:05 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5osqt7$m3a@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com><5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> Charles William Swiger wrote in article <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> ... :Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 25-Jun-97 Re: I give up, :Prelude is i.. by "William Lowe"@spamlesse :> Spoken like a truely closed minded person. You have obviously not looked :> at parts prices lately. I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec :> SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic card that :> is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is none, it has a five :> year warranty and easy to contact support. : :Have you ever heard of Canon's object.station line of Intel hardware? :They made decent (but still fairly expensive) machines, and they used a :PCI BusLogic controller instead of an Adaptec. BusLogic was purchased by Mylex, not sure when. I noticed that they have posted that older (those purchased a year or two ago) are only covered by a 1 year warranty. All new controllers have a five year warranty. I have a Buslogic LT controller, a new one with the 5 year warranty, and it was a breeze to install and hasn't given me any trouble at all. I've seen plenty of good reviews of Mylex products, and of Buslogic's. Maybe that is because Mylex bought them, don't know. :> You can get a 4mb WRAM Millennium for $169, NEC memory for $55 each 16mb, :> and a Panasonic 24x CD-ROM for $112. : :Funny thing about IDE multispeed drives-- they tend to cost about half :of what the SCSI versions do, but they also tend to have miserable :track-to-track seek times, and they break on a regular basis. I won't despute that, and I wouldn't buy a IDE CD-ROM. How about a Toshiba 12x SCSI CD-ROM for $116. :No, it's about that cliche "you get what you pay for". : I'll go along with that. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: stevehix@DeleteToReplysafemail.com (Steve Hix) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:34:05 -0700 Organization: South Valley Internet Message-ID: <stevehix-2506972134050001@ip30.safemail.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> In article <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: > Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: > > : floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after > : all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside > : down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > > and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented > those stupid things?!?! =) That's just stupid design. Any reasonable connector should be either impossible or difficult to put together wrong. At the very least keyed to make improper connection noticeable.
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: comp.sys.next.announce postings? Date: 26 Jun 1997 03:59:01 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5ospe5$23t$1@news.digifix.com> References: <33B19209.2F1C@dna406.dna.mci.com> In-Reply-To: <33B19209.2F1C@dna406.dna.mci.com> On 06/25/97, David Hinz wrote: >Over the last two or three weeks I have not seen any postings to >comp.sys.next.announce. Has the newsgroup changed to a different name? >Is there nothing to be announced? Maybe my news server dropped the >group. > >Does anyone know if postings are going to comp.sys.next.announce? > Yes, there have been postings to comp.sys.next.announce in the last two-three weeks. 24 by my count... and they are getting out there according to feedback I've been getting.. -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
From: abuse@127.0.0.1 (Grandmaster Demonlord Toadeater) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:28:38 GMT Organization: -= BEYOND Entertainment Software =- (see message for address) Message-ID: <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented >> those stupid things?!?! =) > > No actually, you can't, you'll notice it instantly. There is no such >thing on IDE, the connector is the same on the top and bottom so there's >no way to know if it's hooked up wrong. Notice that red line on the edge of the ribbon? That tells you where pin 1 is located. Look on the motherboard and see where it says 1 or has a small triangle. Match the red line with that. > Why is it that with every connector in my Mac I am unable to plug it in >the wrong way? Why can't the people building PC's do the same thing? >This costs NOTHING. Dunno, they prefer to use "weird" systems like the above for marking things. >> you killed the floppy while trying to fix the cd and hd? > > No, read the message. The boot floopy is dead. Not the boot floppy drive. Sounds like you did have some cables plugged in backwards at least at one point, that can kill a floppy. ----==< B E Y O N D >==---- - E N T E R T A I N M E N T - http://www.cybervendors.com/beyond/ --- Choose A New Reality! ----------------- -----------------Reply To:toadeatr@bway.net ICQ UIN: 1409335
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 26 Jun 1997 01:44:43 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: > Don Yacktman wrote in article <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com>... >:I think he is damning them because the typical PC clone >:hardware is sh*t, nothing more and nothing less. He's >:just giving one more example for why he feels that way >:and I can't say I much blame him for thinking it. Given >:how long the technology has had to mature, there is IMHO >:no excuse for *anybody* to have to go through what Maury >:has been going through. And you really do have to blame >:the hardware as much or more than OPENSTEP. If you are >:lucky and get decent enough hardware, OPENSTEP installs >:great and it is a joy to use--lots nicer than any other >:commercial WinTel OS. But hardware like that tends to >:cost *more* that the typical Mac because you have to buy >:premium parts, and most folks won't pay the price. So >:the majority of PeeCee hardware is pure crapola. >Spoken like a truely closed minded person. No, spoken like a truly experienced person. Let me add, speaking as one who has installed many versions of many OS's on Intel hardware over the years, I second it. >You have obviously not looked at parts prices lately. Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is cheap? You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but boy is it cheap! You get what you pay for. >>I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec >SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic >card that is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is >none, it has a five year warranty and easy to contact support. Oh, there's a catch all right, and you just indvertently pointed it out. You *need* easy to contact support, because it's such a fucking nightmare to get any two add-ons from different manufacturers to co-exist in a PC chassis. I demolished and re-assembled PCs two or three times a day from 1982 to 1984, and when I had to do it again a year ago, six months ago, and last week, I found that it hasn't changed a goddamned bit, except that with the PC luser's half-assed plug and play implementation, the computer now *automatically* fucks up the configuration of the boards, and there aren't even any goddamned jumpers to fix it! THE PC WORLD IS NOT IMPROVING! >You can get a 4mb WRAM Millennium for $169, NEC memory for $55 each >16mb, and a Panasonic 24x CD-ROM for $112. Of course you could >just tell me that these brands are crap, but you'll be blowing hot >air. No, the platform they run in is crap. As a PC add-on manufacturer, you can do everything right, and there will still be some brain-dead BIOS, SCSI card, IDE adapter (now at the new low price of fifty cents, plus the cost of your hypertension medication!) that will not coexist with your board. NEC and Panasonic make perfectly acceptable products, but there is no way they can make up for the fundamental designe flaws inherited from IBM. This is IBM's fault primarily, but there's plenty of blame to go around. (Compaq? Dell? Gateway? Joe's west bumfuck motherboard and storm-door factory? Hang your heads in SHAME! ) >As for installing these things, most normal people have absolutely >no problems figuring out which end of the cable goes there. In well-designed systems, the cable connectors are keyed, and they won't *fit* where they don't go. Try looking at a computer from NeXT, Sun, or HP sometime. [fascinating description of how to compensate for unkeyed connectors deleted.] >Getting good hardware for a PC isn't about luck, and neither is >installing it. That is for sure. If you have to use PC hardware, forget about luck. If you're using a PC, lady luck has left you *far* behind. -jcr
From: Martin Laurent <martin.laurent@interweb.be> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:43:42 +0200 Organization: Brussels Free Universities VUB/ULB Message-ID: <33B263FE.165F@interweb.be> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <datamagik-2506971837470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I tried to install it on VirtualPC (1.0b6) on my PowerBook 5300ce but it didn't work (It display Power Management is Enabled and then nothing). It seems to work on some Mac and not on other. Perhaps I must try with the final version of VPC. Martin Jay Riley wrote: > > In article <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com > (Maury Markowitz) wrote: > > > Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also > >a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > > > > Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting > >a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one > >step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD > >both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. > > > > Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the > >primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing > >at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I > >attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this > >time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the > >floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after > >all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside > >down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > > > > Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work > >(after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the > >jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 > >minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > > > > ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > > > > I give up. > > Maury, > > I know you've probably had enough wintel aggravation, but if you're up to > it would you try this: try installing it under VPC. My impression (very > possibly mistaken) is that installations go a little easier with VirtualPC > for the simple reason that it can skip some of the more painful setup > procedures because it is (after all) an emulator. > > If that doesn't appeal to you (and your agreement with Apple doesn't > prohibit it) maybe you could send ME your preview copy and let me monkey > with it on a colleague's machine running VPC. I hope to be back in Apple's > Developer Program within the next several weeks (my first time back since > they canned the free "Certified Developer" program and went to their > current scheme). I don't know if that will make this suggestion more > permissible. > > If none of this is possible maybe another Mac afficiando with Rhapsody > Preview will read this, try it, and tell us what happened. > > Regards, > > Jay > > -- > > ===================================================================== > = DATAMAGIK Systems, Software & Design Engineering Austin, Texas > = 1-888-369-5741 <http://lonestar.texas.net/~riley> riley@texas.net > = > = Created on an Apple Macintosh PowerBook 5300cs running Mac®OS 7.6.1 > =
From: John Zachary <zachary@bit.csc.lsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:48:59 -0500 Organization: LSU Robotics Research Laboratory Message-ID: <33B2D5BB.7AE7@bit.csc.lsu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz wrote: > > Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's also > a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > > Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then getting > a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went one > step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD > both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. > > Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on the > primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the thing > at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then I > attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and this > time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot the > floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after > all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside > down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > > Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work > (after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the > jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 > minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > > ...and now the boot floppy is dead. > > I give up. > > Maury OpenStep works just fine on a PC with dual EIDE devices (HD as the primary master, CDROM as the primary slave). You either (a) know nothing about PC hardware and are doing something terribly wrong in hooking things together - not Prelude's fault, or (b) have hardware that is not supported as described at www.next.com and www.apple.com - again, not Prelude's fault (remember, it is prerelease software) I'd be happy to help out where I can. Send to me 1. Manufacturer and model of the CDROM drive, HD, graphics card, etc. 2. Affirmation that you have all cables hooked up correctly (the red line on the side of the IDE ribbon cables indicates pin number 1) 3. The messages you get from the terminal window when booting up. If you can't boot from a floppy, then you have something hooked up incorrectly. You should be able to boot from the boot floppy. What are the specific messages? John
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:59:36 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> John C. Randolph wrote in article <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com>... :"William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: :>Spoken like a truely closed minded person. : :No, spoken like a truly experienced person. Let me add, speaking :as one who has installed many versions of many OS's on Intel :hardware over the years, I second it. : :>You have obviously not looked at parts prices lately. : :Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is cheap? :You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but boy is :it cheap! : :You get what you pay for. Your cliches don't hold water. You managed to ignore that I was referring to BRAND NAME PARTS, not crapola. Matrox, Buslogic, NEC, and Panasonic all made good parts. : :>>I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec :>SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic :>card that is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is :>none, it has a five year warranty and easy to contact support. : :Oh, there's a catch all right, and you just indvertently pointed :it out. You *need* easy to contact support, because it's such a :fucking nightmare to get any two add-ons from different manufacturers :to co-exist in a PC chassis. : Funny, I have add ons from five different manufacturers, Zoom, STB, Buslogic, Orchid, Creative. Those are just the cards, I have two hard drives by different manufacturers, and a SCSI CD-ROM from a third. I didn't have any fucking nightmares, and I never contacted support. :>You can get a 4mb WRAM Millennium for $169, NEC memory for $55 each :>16mb, and a Panasonic 24x CD-ROM for $112. Of course you could :>just tell me that these brands are crap, but you'll be blowing hot :>air. : :No, the platform they run in is crap. As a PC add-on manufacturer, :you can do everything right, and there will still be some brain-dead :BIOS, SCSI card, IDE adapter (now at the new low price of fifty :cents, plus the cost of your hypertension medication!) that will :not coexist with your board. NEC and Panasonic make perfectly :acceptable products, but there is no way they can make up for :the fundamental designe flaws inherited from IBM. : :This is IBM's fault primarily, but there's plenty of blame to go :around. (Compaq? Dell? Gateway? Joe's west bumfuck motherboard :and storm-door factory? Hang your heads in SHAME! ) :>Getting good hardware for a PC isn't about luck, and neither is :>installing it. : :That is for sure. If you have to use PC hardware, forget about :luck. If you're using a PC, lady luck has left you *far* behind. Well then, I must be relying on the benevolence of God for my PC to work, because I have changed my motherboard twice (not because either didn't work but as an upgrade) I have changed my video card from a Diamond Stealth to an STB Lightspeed128, installed a buslogic Flashpoint LT and a SCSI CD-ROM (that took all of ten minutes), installed a second harddrive (that also took ten minutes), installed a 3d accellerator, switched modems and sound cards, and upgraded my processor. And not a damn thing didn't work. Maybe you'd like to explain to me why my machine works, after all according to you PCs are crap and something will conflict. What the hell is it, because I can't find it! "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: KSB <broennic@online.no> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:57:33 +0200 Organization: Telenor Online Public Access Message-ID: <33B29F7D.2758F144@online.no> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Lowe wrote: > > > Well then, I must be relying on the benevolence of God for my PC to > work, > because I have changed my motherboard twice (not because either didn't > work > but as an upgrade) I have changed my video card from a Diamond Stealth > to > an STB Lightspeed128, installed a buslogic Flashpoint LT and a SCSI > CD-ROM > (that took all of ten minutes), installed a second harddrive (that > also > took ten minutes), installed a 3d accellerator, switched modems and > sound > cards, and upgraded my processor. And not a damn thing didn't work. > Maybe > you'd like to explain to me why my machine works, after all according > to > you PCs are crap and something will conflict. What the hell is it, > because > I can't find it! Yes- I have also changed motherboard twice. I have installed/switched the following hardware: 486 VESA MBoard, 486 25mhz, 50 mhz, 66 mhz CPU (Trade-in deal) Pentium PCI mb PPRO PCI mb Tsenglabs ET4000 ISA videocard S3911 ISA accelerated videocard S3805 VESA acc. vcard. ATI mach64 PCI acc vcard STBLS128 acc. vcard Matrox Millennium 4 mb acc. vcard. WD Caviar 1 gb , Quantum LPS120 mb, LPS270 mb, 2 Fireball 1280mb, Conner 540Amb- harddrives (all IDE) One Creative 2 speed cdrom (Proprietary interface), one Creative 4 speed cd rom. Not ONE of these items have failed me. Regards KSB
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,control From: news@news.msfc.nasa.gov Message-ID: <cancel.33B29E0F.757C105B@sprintmail.com> Control: cancel <33B29E0F.757C105B@sprintmail.com> Subject: cmsg cancel <33B29E0F.757C105B@sprintmail.com> no reply ignore Organization: Semi-Automatic Lupine Remover Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:00:34 GMT Sender: Tamara <tr@sprintmail.com> ignore Make Money Fast post canceled by J. Porter Clark.
From: KSB <broennic@online.no> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:45:10 +0200 Organization: Telenor Online Public Access Message-ID: <33B29C96.41CC2D96@online.no> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz wrote: > Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's > also > a parable on why you should never buy a PC. > > Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then > getting > a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went > one > step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD > > both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. > > Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on > the > primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the > thing > at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then > I > attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and > this > time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot > the > floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine > after > all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in > upside > down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! Well- the red-striped side of the cable should ALWAYS go on the pin 1/2 side of the connector- that goes for all flat-cable connections in a PC. What you are doing here is externalizing you own mistake- IE if I can't make it work- the design is to blame. SNIP KSB
From: Eric Smalling <Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: System Commander and Netware woes with OS4.1 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:02:24 -0500 Organization: The SABRE Group Message-ID: <33B29290.8C63D67F@amrcorp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EAD4F29FC793C21AD6502536" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EAD4F29FC793C21AD6502536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to install OS4.1 for Mach on Intel and, thank God had no problems with my EIDE HD/CDROMs! My two problems are: 1. It seems that System Commander's (a multiple OS loader) boot block on my HD is causing OPENSTEP to not recognize my DOS partition. When I have the NeXT installed boot block everything is peachy keen, OS mounts the DOS partition automatically, but with System Commander installed the DOS partition will not mount. (I entered "-v" at the BOOT: prompt and there is some kind of error that flies by when it is, apparently, trying to mount the DOS partition.) I have one HD, an EIDE 2GB with 3 partitions: 700MB as DOS (FAT16), 300MB for UNIX/OpenStep, 1GB NTFS (WinNT) and I need system commander to choose between the 3 OS's. 2. I have TCP/IP connectivity but, here at work, we have many Novel NetWare 3.x and 2.x file servers I need to be able to see. The doc's say to just go to the NextAdmin folder and run the NetWare Manager --- well, it's not there! I checked NeXTAnswers and, in the 4.1 release notes it says that NetWare support is not included in 4.1. Is the NetWare client software available anywhere like it is for Win95/NT/3.1? (I didn't see it on Novell's wed site). Any help would be greatly appreciated! -es -- ____________________________________________________________________ Eric A. Smalling Ft Worth, Texas USA --=== ------=== The Any views expressed are mine alone and are in no ----------- SABRE way the views of AMR or any of it's subsidiaries. ------=== Group --=== email:Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com Corp Web Site: http://www.sabre.com ____________________________________________________________________ --------------EAD4F29FC793C21AD6502536 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Eric Smalling Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Eric Smalling n: Smalling;Eric org: The SABRE Group email;internet: Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com title: Programmer Associate x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE end: vcard --------------EAD4F29FC793C21AD6502536--
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:51:04 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> In article <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net>, "Brian Johnson" <brianjay@gate.net> wrote: > I got the two ide option to work by making the CDRom the slave of the Hard > Drive. (wouldn't work as two primary which is how my system was configured) > You might also think about getting a copy partition magic which will help > you repartition your drive for install. Well I'm going to try again, someone had a replacement floppy (thanks!) so I'm able to continue. The real issue here is that it's impossible to tell which is the primary IDE bus and which is the secondary neither is marked. Neither is the jumper on the CD or the HD for selection of master/slave, but the guys at NEC helped me out there. Does anyone know if the connectors on an IDE cable make any difference? IE, does the Master have to be the device at the end of the cable, the middle of the cable, or it doesn't matter? Maury
From: nhughes@idir.net (nate) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:47:35 GMT Organization: Internet Direct Communications Message-ID: <33baaac2.418245945@nntp.idir.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33B2D5BB.7AE7@bit.csc.lsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:48:59 -0500, John Zachary <zachary@bit.csc.lsu.edu> decided he/she should say: >Maury Markowitz wrote: <snip> >After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine after >> all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside >> down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! If you connect IDE HDDs or floppies backward on a PC, the drive light will remain on constantly. This can be a useful tidbit of info. Nate
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From: datamagik@usa.net (Jay Riley) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:28:48 -0500 Organization: DATAMAGIK € Systems, Software, & Design Engineering Message-ID: <datamagik-2606971328480001@tcnet01-25.austin.texas.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33B29C96.41CC2D96@online.no> Remember that new computer buyers: If an experienced engineer can't get a wintel box to work, it's his fault. =) And if HE can't do it are you sure you wouldn't rather get a Macintosh and at least be able to use your computer? -Jay In article <33B29C96.41CC2D96@online.no>, KSB <broennic@online.no> wrote: >Maury Markowitz wrote: > >> Well I just can't take it any more, this was the last straw. It's >> also >> a parable on why you should never buy a PC. >> >> Today I went even further, after trying the machine as is, then >> getting >> a SCSI CD-ROM and not being able to get anything to work, today I went >> one >> step further and got a whole new computer. This one had the HD and CD >> >> both on IDE, which is a supported configuration. >> >> Well no luck. The first attempt with the CD and HD both masters on >> the >> primary and secondary IDE busses worked the best. In that case the >> thing >> at least saw the drive and attempted to talk to it (and failed). Then >> I >> attempted to move it to the slave on the primary bus with the HD, and >> this >> time when I turned it back on NOTHING worked - it wouldn't even boot >> the >> floppy. After a good 10 minutes of worrying (it's not my machine >> after >> all) I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in >> upside >> down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > >Well- the red-striped side of the cable should ALWAYS go on the pin 1/2 >side of the connector- that goes for all flat-cable connections in a PC. >What you are doing here is externalizing you own mistake- IE if I can't >make it work- the design is to blame. > >SNIP > >KSB -- ===================================================================== = DATAMAGIK Systems, Software & Design Engineering Austin, Texas = 1-888-369-5741 <http://lonestar.texas.net/~riley> riley@texas.net = = Created on an Apple Macintosh PowerBook 5300cs running Mac®OS 7.6.1 =
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:59:13 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971359130001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <maury-2506972043030001@199.166.204.230> <5osfts$t3q@winter.erols.com> In article <5osfts$t3q@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: > Ah, if you hadn't cut the part of the post where I had these prices, you'd > see what I'm talking about. Yeah, but who cares? Are you seriously suggesting that I buy new hardware to correct a problem like this when the current stuff is completely functional? Remember, IDE was supposed to solve these driver issues, not create new ones. > in both ways. I'm sure that you can get a motherboard without markings, > and ribbons without the 1st cable marked, but these are not typical in > PCs. Fortunately I've only had to open three machines in the last two years in this manner. Two of these are for the OS install, and neither had a notch on the connector, nor the red stripe. The other did include notes on the motherboard about the interfaces though, and the CD in the other machine also had clearly marked jumpers. But that's the _problem_, you open these things and you're on your own. Combine this with less than clear instructions from NeXT on what exactly is supposed to happen, and you're in for the sort of frustrating ride I've been on for two weeks now! > Most drives either have a notch, or a diagram on the drive indicating which > way to install the cable. If I had a e-camera I'd snap this. It's amazing, because there's no ID's at all. In the case of the last machine the SCSI card has no ID's on it instead only a "Made in Tiawan" sticker and a serial number. Maury
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 26 Jun 1997 18:05:33 GMT Organization: Cygnus Solutions Message-ID: <5oub1d$eil$1@cronkite.cygnus.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: maury@softarc.com In <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz wrote: > Does anyone know if the connectors on an IDE cable make any difference? > IE, does the Master have to be the device at the end of the cable, the > middle of the cable, or it doesn't matter? > I have been told by various tech support lines (different answers depending on which manufacturer I was working with) different things about this. Some say "Master must be at the end", some say "Master must be in the middle (ie. closest to the controller)", some say "it doesn't matter, it's the jumper settings that matter", and some say "It matters because the jumper settings _only_ affect which drive spins up first" etc. I do know that if you only have one device on the cable, it doesn't matter which of the two spots it takes. I also know that I have had one PC that had the drives moved back and forth on the cable (without changing their master/slave status) with no effect, but that may have been an unusual circumstance. I'm willing to bet that it depends on your controller and the drives... that or it doesn't matter, and all of those tech support wennies were blowing smoke so they didn't look like they know nothing. -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com http://www.cygnus.com/~jrudd =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Thought for the day: According to the supreme court, proof of innocence isn't enough to avoid execution if you've exhausted your appeals.
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:25:04 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971425040001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com> In article <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: > motherboard, then turn the power on. If your IDE cable has two connectors, > the master drive should go on the end connector. Now that is helpful. Of course, that's basically impossible because this means the slave (the CD) has to be on the "middle" connector, and the distance from the middle to end connectors is shorter than the distance from the CD to the HD. Sigh. > secondary drive. A CD-ROM should be on the secondary controller. No, it should not. You seem to think I'm complaining about the PC, but that's only one part of it. The issue here is that the NeXTSTEP install requires a very specific hardware setup, one that is not common, and one that is incredibly problematic to set up if it's not that way to begin with. Really, you shouldn't offer the advice before you know what the problem is in the first place. This has been a two week ongoing process and you have simply jumped in at the end. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:47:25 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971447250001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> In article <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu>, Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > No, it's about that cliche "you get what you pay for". In this particular case it's that, and the specific needs of this install. If the NeXT drivers could support a CD on one bus and a HD on the other this wouldn't be a problem. However, the hardware doesn't help either, making a straightforward modification almost impossible. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:19:30 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971519300001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <33B1E0D7.1AE78E68@asdf.com> In article <33B1E0D7.1AE78E68@asdf.com>, "Kenneth R. Kinder" <asdf@asdf.com> wrote: > I agree with you 100%, Edward. This guy yelling about all his problems > with his IDE ports reminds me of someone saying "So, I stuck a paperclip > in the socket, and it shocked me!!! Electricity sucks, and should never > be used!!" Oh what a US-centric view. In most other countries it's not possible to stick anything but a normal plug into the socket for just this reason. However your analogy is pretty much wrong. There are devices in the world that when stuck into the socket upside down will not work. They all have one prong larger than the other so that this cannot happen. So basically that's just a dumb comment. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:21:07 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971521070001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> In article <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net>, abuse@127.0.0.1 wrote: > Notice that red line on the edge of the ribbon? No, because there isn't one. > Dunno, they prefer to use "weird" systems like the above for marking > things. Yes, like system that you can't screw up even if you try to. How "weird". > Sounds like you did have some cables plugged in backwards at least at > one point, that can kill a floppy. So can a million other things. Considering this floppy wasn't even in the drive in the time it stopped working, I find this difficult to believe. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 15:24:20 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> In article <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is cheap? > You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but boy is > it cheap! I should say the reason I posted was to calm down - sorry for taking it all out on you in the process. However, this is a good area to comment. I've now been told that if I didn't have such a cheap machine it would install find and this IDE issue wouldn't be a problem. In the same message we get that PC's are cheap and you can buy cheap parts to replace them.... > You get what you pay for. Exactly. You can't have it both ways. > In well-designed systems, the cable connectors are keyed, and they > won't *fit* where they don't go. Try looking at a computer from NeXT, > Sun, or HP sometime. And I'm sure they are in some - perhaps most - PC's as well. That still doesn't make me feel any better when I powered up and nothing started spinning. Maury
From: postmaster@cyberpromo.com (-=+ JAZZ CLASSICS+=-) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:36:33 GMT Organization: -=+ JAZZ CLASSICS +=- Message-ID: <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> On Thu, 26 Jun 1997 13:51:04 -0400, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: >In article <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net>, "Brian Johnson" ><brianjay@gate.net> wrote: > >> I got the two ide option to work by making the CDRom the slave of the Hard >> Drive. (wouldn't work as two primary which is how my system was configured) >> You might also think about getting a copy partition magic which will help >> you repartition your drive for install. > > Well I'm going to try again, someone had a replacement floppy (thanks!) >so I'm able to continue. The real issue here is that it's impossible to >tell which is the primary IDE bus and which is the secondary neither is >marked. Neither is the jumper on the CD or the HD for selection of >master/slave, but the guys at NEC helped me out there. Ugh, well it is rough if they didn't provide a diagram of the motherboard or anything. > Does anyone know if the connectors on an IDE cable make any difference? >IE, does the Master have to be the device at the end of the cable, the >middle of the cable, or it doesn't matter? The master should go on the end connector, AFAIK. Also, there is usually a jumper on the drive which picks whether it is master or slave, cable select, or stand-alone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -= JAZZ CLASSICS =- Your source for Jazz for over 20 years! WWW- http://www.jazzclassics.com | E-mail- stashmo@bway.net Phone: 212-477-9532 | Fax: 212-475-3230 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 26 Jun 1997 19:54:17 GMT Organization: University at Buffalo Message-ID: <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> NNTP-Posting-User: scholl Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: : However, this is a good area to comment. I've now been told that if I : didn't have such a cheap machine it would install find and this IDE issue : wouldn't be a problem. In the same message we get that PC's are cheap and : you can buy cheap parts to replace them.... : > You get what you pay for. : Exactly. You can't have it both ways. well, as in everything you buy, there is a difference between inexpensive cheap and poor quality cheap when it comes to computers. you just shouldn't buy the poor quality stuff. -ed
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: as;dlfjdlkajsf@;laksjflsad.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ouc8o$j9s$216@news.internetmci.com> Control: cancel <5ouc8o$j9s$216@news.internetmci.com> Date: 26 Jun 1997 19:17:54 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5ouc8o$j9s$216@news.internetmci.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:57:31 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> In article <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net>, see .sig for real address wrote: > The master should go on the end connector, AFAIK. Also, there is > usually a jumper on the drive which picks whether it is master or > slave, cable select, or stand-alone. The CD has a jumper for MA/SL and CS (oddly numbered 3 down, reverse of what you'd think), just what is Cable Select anyway? For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my tests... a) boot b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers c) select EIDE and ATAPI - some have suggested this is actually incorrect and you should instead select the Primary/Secondary settings d) wait for the "window" to appear What happens then (after other brief messages)... hc0: device detected hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected hc0: checking for ATA 1 hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected hc0: resetting drives hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM hc0: LBA supported hc0: IORDY supported Registering hc0 hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) hd0: 4096 sectors hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies Registering hd0 hd0: no label hd0: (reports block size) hd0: (reports disk size in total) IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI Registering sc0 sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command (etc. until it panics) There's no documentation on what any of these messages mean, nor the numbers associated with them. I assume hc0 is a process, and not a device? The HD appears to be fine and gets registered as hd0:, but then we get a line from something saying that disk 1 is ATAPI - but what is disk 1? The HD or the CD? Then it registers sc0:, what is that? the CD? if so, why does it go back to hc0 after that? The messages almost seem randomly generated. Why does it ID the ATAPI CD before ID'ing the HD? Why do we then get another report of the ATAPI drive later, still before it boots it? And why can't it boot it? Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:33:02 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971633020001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <5oub1d$eil$1@cronkite.cygnus.com> In article <5oub1d$eil$1@cronkite.cygnus.com>, jrudd@cygnus.com wrote: > Some say "Master must be at the end", some say "Master must be in the middle > (ie. closest to the controller)", some say "it doesn't matter, it's the > jumper settings that matter", and some say "It matters because the jumper > settings _only_ affect which drive spins up first" etc. Sigh. > I do know that if you only have one device on the cable, it doesn't matter > which of the two spots it takes. Well I've tried it on both ends now, it doesn't make a difference as far as I can see. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Ok, now this is crazy Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:05:39 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971705390001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2406971311150001@199.166.204.230> <ECCEM7.70u@onevision.de> In article <ECCEM7.70u@onevision.de>, hans@onevision.de wrote: > That maybe the problem! A lot of SCSI CD-ROM drives of UNIX workstations > are jumpered for a different block size than normal ( I guess it was 512 > versus 2048 on normal drives). This might be the reason for your problems, > but I do not know about the Indy drive... Yeah, someone else wrote me with the same point, and noted that it definitely has the problem. Fun, joy. Maury
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:10:18 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <gngiX_K00iV_070nw0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> <maury-2606971447250001@199.166.204.230> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 26-Jun-97 Re: I give up, Prelude is i.. by Maury Markowitz@softarc. > In this particular case it's that, and the specific needs of this > install. If the NeXT drivers could support a CD on one bus and a HD on > the other this wouldn't be a problem. However, the hardware doesn't help > either, making a straightforward modification almost impossible. Hmm...take a look at: <URL=http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/2265.htmld/2265.html> ...and... <URL=http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/2266.htmld/2266.html>. "New Driver / Update Description: Use the following installation instructions when installing from a CD-ROM drive connected to the secondary EIDE controller: 1. Select Primary/Secondary(Dual) EIDE and ATAPI Device Controllers as the hard disk driver. 2. After the install program has finished reading from the CD-ROM, the Configure panel will appear. Double-click the Other icon. If the Primary/Secondary(Dual) EIDE and ATAPI Device Controllers driver is listed, remove it from the list. It is no longer necessary since the installation from the CD-ROM is complete. Add the appropriate EIDE driver to match your EIDE hardware configuration. You will need to add it twice to get a second instance of the EIDE driver to support the secondary EIDE controller. You will need to set the IRQ to 15, and I/O port address range to 0x170-0x177 in the second instance of the driver, in order to avoid conflicts with the first instance. Add any other necessary drivers while in Configure, and then click on the Save button." If you get the new (beta) driver, I believe it supports installing with the CD_ROM on the secondary IDE controller. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:31:33 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5ouu56$qip@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz wrote in article ... >In article <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net>, see .sig for real address wrote: > >> The master should go on the end connector, AFAIK. Also, there is >> usually a jumper on the drive which picks whether it is master or >> slave, cable select, or stand-alone. > > The CD has a jumper for MA/SL and CS (oddly numbered 3 down, reverse of >what you'd think), just what is Cable Select anyway? > > For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my tests... > >a) boot >b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM > - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers >c) select EIDE and ATAPI > - some have suggested this is actually incorrect and you > should instead select the Primary/Secondary settings >d) wait for the "window" to appear > > What happens then (after other brief messages)... > >hc0: device detected >hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected >hc0: checking for ATA 1 >hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected >hc0: resetting drives >hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM >hc0: LBA supported >hc0: IORDY supported >Registering hc0 >hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) >hd0: 4096 sectors >hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies >Registering hd0 >hd0: no label >hd0: (reports block size) >hd0: (reports disk size in total) >IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI >Registering sc0 >sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > >(etc. until it panics) > > There's no documentation on what any of these messages mean, nor the >numbers associated with them. I assume hc0 is a process, and not a >device? The HD appears to be fine and gets registered as hd0:, but then >we get a line from something saying that disk 1 is ATAPI - but what is >disk 1? The HD or the CD? Then it registers sc0:, what is that? the >CD? if so, why does it go back to hc0 after that? > > The messages almost seem randomly generated. Why does it ID the ATAPI >CD before ID'ing the HD? Why do we then get another report of the ATAPI >drive later, still before it boots it? And why can't it boot it? > >Maury If I'm reading this correctly, you have your CD-ROM attached to the Adaptech SCSI card or SCSI connector on the motherboard. If this is the case, it is not ATAPI. But a SCSI CD-ROM does not have jumpers for master and slave. Only ATAPI (also known as IDE) CD-ROMs have settings for master and slave. If this is the case, then you should chose IDE (or ATAPI) for your CD-ROM controller.
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@erols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:43:01 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5ouuql$qip@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com> <maury-2606971425040001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz wrote in article ... >In article <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" ><wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: > >> motherboard, then turn the power on. If your IDE cable has two connectors, >> the master drive should go on the end connector. > > Now that is helpful. Of course, that's basically impossible because >this means the slave (the CD) has to be on the "middle" connector, and the >distance from the middle to end connectors is shorter than the distance >from the CD to the HD. Sigh. > >> secondary drive. A CD-ROM should be on the secondary controller. > > No, it should not. You seem to think I'm complaining about the PC, but >that's only one part of it. The issue here is that the NeXTSTEP install >requires a very specific hardware setup, one that is not common, and one >that is incredibly problematic to set up if it's not that way to begin >with. This actually didn't have to do with anyone particular OS, but it is a property of Intel i430 chipsets. I assumed that you have a motherboard with an Intel chipset because they are more popular with manufacturers. The CD-ROM will work on the primary, but it is slower than if you put it on the secondary controller as the master drive. It has nothing to do with any OS. But if your OS can not read the secondary controller with a CD-ROM, then you can put it on the primary. But it will not be as fast as if it were on the secondary. Don't complain to me, complain to Intel for how they designed it, and complain to Apple for not supporting a very common configuration.
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:06:03 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2606971906030001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> <maury-2606971447250001@199.166.204.230> <gngiX_K00iV_070nw0@andrew.cmu.edu> In article <gngiX_K00iV_070nw0@andrew.cmu.edu>, Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > <URL=http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/2265.htmld/2265.html> ...and... > <URL=http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/2266.htmld/2266.html>. > > "New Driver / Update Description: > Use the following installation instructions when installing from a > CD-ROM drive connected to the secondary EIDE controller: > > 1. Select Primary/Secondary(Dual) EIDE and ATAPI > Device Controllers as the hard disk driver. There seems to be no indication of what to select as the CD controller, I assumed it was to be as normal and selected the Adaptech. Using the driver that came with the floppy, it still died in the same fashion. > If you get the new (beta) driver, I believe it supports installing with > the CD_ROM on the secondary IDE controller. Well there's one on the disk that does this too, but it doesn't seem to help the problem at all. It just dies a lot faster in fact. It's all so odd, you can HEAR the CD moving about in response to the commands, they're definitely talking, but I think the Mach drivers just aren't interested. I'd like to try the beta, but the instructions for using the drivers require them to be decompressed in OpenStep (sigh). Any chance someone can send me it uncompressed? How would I then install it, is it simply a file I place at the root of a FAT floppy? Maury
From: datamagik@usa.net (Jay Riley) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 19:29:51 -0500 Organization: DATAMAGIK € Systems, Software, & Design Engineering Message-ID: <datamagik-2606971929520001@tcnet01-43.austin.texas.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> In article <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: >Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: > >: However, this is a good area to comment. I've now been told that if I >: didn't have such a cheap machine it would install find and this IDE issue >: wouldn't be a problem. In the same message we get that PC's are cheap and >: you can buy cheap parts to replace them.... > >: > You get what you pay for. > >: Exactly. You can't have it both ways. > >well, as in everything you buy, there is a difference between inexpensive >cheap and poor quality cheap when it comes to computers. you just >shouldn't buy the poor quality stuff. Okay so you're saying wintel PCs are cheaper than Mac PCs, but you shouldn't buy cheap PCs or (functional) Macs? No, wait you're saying that you CAN use cheap stuff if you have expertise to distinguish it from cheap stuff that doesn't work correctly. Why not buy a Mac and save yourself the headaches? I was FURIOUS at Apple Computer when they let their quality slide down to what I'd expect from a top shelf wintel maker. I don't know how you people can STAND it, I really don't. Regards, Jay -- ===================================================================== = DATAMAGIK Systems, Software & Design Engineering Austin, Texas = 1-888-369-5741 <http://lonestar.texas.net/~riley> riley@texas.net = = Created on an Apple Macintosh PowerBook 5300cs running Mac®OS 7.6.1 =
From: "Chris Johnson" <jinx6568@sover.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 26 Jun 97 20:52:18 +0000 Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Message-ID: <AFD88708-12F9A5@204.71.18.121> References: <datamagik-2606971328480001@tcnet01-25.austin.texas.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.sover.net/comp.sys.next.advocacy, nntp://news.sover.net/comp.sys.next.misc On Thu, Jun 26, 1997 6:28 PM, Jay Riley <mailto:datamagik@usa.net> wrote: >Remember that new computer buyers: If an experienced engineer can't get a >wintel box to work, it's his fault. =) And if HE can't do it are you sure >you wouldn't rather get a Macintosh and at least be able to use your >computer? >-Jay I still don't know what the heck Maury is doing with a PC anyway. Prelude? Is he beta testing something? I've not been paying attention to c.s.m.a, I've been seemingly everywhere else on the internet using my Mac rather than here letting it be mocked ;) Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc From: jlemon@netcom.com (Jonathan Lemon) Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Message-ID: <jlemonECEtrH.3v1@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:06:53 GMT Sender: jlemon@netcom22.netcom.com In article <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230>, Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> wrote: >In article <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net>, see .sig for real address wrote: > >> The master should go on the end connector, AFAIK. Also, there is >> usually a jumper on the drive which picks whether it is master or >> slave, cable select, or stand-alone. > > The CD has a jumper for MA/SL and CS (oddly numbered 3 down, reverse of >what you'd think), just what is Cable Select anyway? > > For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my tests... > >a) boot >b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM > - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers >c) select EIDE and ATAPI > - some have suggested this is actually incorrect and you > should instead select the Primary/Secondary settings >d) wait for the "window" to appear > > What happens then (after other brief messages)... > >hc0: device detected >hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected >hc0: checking for ATA 1 >hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected >hc0: resetting drives >hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM >hc0: LBA supported >hc0: IORDY supported >Registering hc0 >hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) >hd0: 4096 sectors >hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies >Registering hd0 >hd0: no label >hd0: (reports block size) >hd0: (reports disk size in total) >IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI >Registering sc0 >sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > >(etc. until it panics) > > There's no documentation on what any of these messages mean, nor the >numbers associated with them. I assume hc0 is a process, and not a >device? The HD appears to be fine and gets registered as hd0:, but then >we get a line from something saying that disk 1 is ATAPI - but what is >disk 1? The HD or the CD? Then it registers sc0:, what is that? the >CD? if so, why does it go back to hc0 after that? > > The messages almost seem randomly generated. Why does it ID the ATAPI >CD before ID'ing the HD? Why do we then get another report of the ATAPI >drive later, still before it boots it? And why can't it boot it? Just a couple of guesses: hc0 - IDE Controller #0 hd0 - IDE Disk #0 sc0 - SCSI Controller #0 sd0 - SCSI Disk #0 (actually cdrom) The probe message shows that it detected the IDE controller first, then probed the bus looking for devices, as well as what the bus controller will support. It then registers the controller, and goes on to register the devices. From the information given, it seems that NeXT decided to handle ATAPI devices as SCSI. The question then is why isn't the CDROM (sd0) talking to "sc0", which it is presumably attached to? -- Jonathan (Who is not running NS anymore)
From: bhurle1@umbc.edu (hurley bryan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware Subject: Does a Teac FD235-HS work with Black hardware? Date: 26 Jun 1997 21:15:46 -0400 Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Message-ID: <5ov482$mc3@umbc9.umbc.edu> NNTP-Posting-User: bhurle1 does this scsi floppy drive work with black hardware? specifically 030 and 040 cubes. as well as whatever else it works with, or your experience with would be greatly appreciated. thanks bryan 040 25 20 100 3.2
From: Rick Kiss <kissrw@epix.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:10:09 -0400 Organization: Surely someplace important Message-ID: <33B32F11.2D4723A@epix.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz wrote: > > In article <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net>, see .sig for real address wrote: > <--- text cut ---> > a) boot > b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM > - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers > c) select EIDE and ATAPI > - some have suggested this is actually incorrect and you > should instead select the Primary/Secondary settings > d) wait for the "window" to appear > > What happens then (after other brief messages)... > > hc0: device detected > hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected > hc0: checking for ATA 1 > hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected > hc0: resetting drives > hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM > hc0: LBA supported > hc0: IORDY supported > Registering hc0 > hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) > hd0: 4096 sectors > hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies > Registering hd0 > hd0: no label > hd0: (reports block size) > hd0: (reports disk size in total) > IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI > Registering sc0 > sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command <--- text cut ---> Howdy, If you think this is hard you should have been with me installing NeXTSTEP 3.1 for Intel on EISA computers. EISA really seperated the tough from the wimps. The first question, I come up with is why you are using both a SCSI and and an IDE (ATAPI) CDROM for the install? My preference, when installing NeXTSTEP, was always to use SCSI CDROM onto either IDE, SCSI or (later) EIDE drives. One CDROM is sufficient. For what its worth, there are multiple versions of the Adaptec 1542 out there. The last one I paid any attention to was the 1542C but there could be a 1542Q for all I know. NeXTSTEP was a bit finaky on the version. On the other hand higher quality controllers like the 2940 and 7870(?) are much cleaner. 'Course I could whine that I can't get OpenStep 4.2 for Intel for less than $1400 while some folks have it and hit what look like walls. And I could go on about having used it since 3.1, helped promote the product, on a personal level, assisted in minor driver resolution problems - all to be treated like NeXT has always treated it non-corporate customers. But I'm sure that will all be fixed in no-time. Yep. Have fun, Rick - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Happiness would be Objective C and Java on OpenStep for Mach / Rhapsody. If Microsoft had named Java 1.1 it would have been Java 4.0 Explorer.
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:25:49 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <Qngn_xa00iWm0AIXs0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> In-Reply-To: <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 26-Jun-97 Re: I give up, Prelude is i.. by Maury Markowitz@softarc. > The CD has a jumper for MA/SL and CS (oddly numbered 3 down, reverse of > what you'd think), just what is Cable Select anyway? It sounds strongly like the CD-ROM drive you have is a IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM, and not a SCSI CD-ROM. > For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my tests... > > a) boot > b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM > - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers Do you have an Adaptec 154x controller and a SCSI CD-ROM or do you have an IDE CD-ROM? -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: "Brian Johnson" <brianjay@gate.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 00:38:45 -0400 Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Message-ID: <5ovfv5$2298$1@news.gate.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> Maury, OK, I may have an idea for you. (If you're using an IDE CD-ROM that's a slave of your HD). While you're doing setup, try hittin F7(or whatever I forgot) a few more times to get to the Dual IDE controller driver. Use this driver for both the CD and the Hard Drive. This is how I got it to work. I wouldn't have known about this other driver if I hadn't read about it in another posting. Hope this helps. Brian Brian Johnson http://www.gate.net/~brianjay Maury Markowitz wrote in article ... >In article <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net>, see .sig for real address wrote: > >> The master should go on the end connector, AFAIK. Also, there is >> usually a jumper on the drive which picks whether it is master or >> slave, cable select, or stand-alone. > > The CD has a jumper for MA/SL and CS (oddly numbered 3 down, reverse of >what you'd think), just what is Cable Select anyway? > > For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my tests... > >a) boot >b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM > - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers >c) select EIDE and ATAPI > - some have suggested this is actually incorrect and you > should instead select the Primary/Secondary settings >d) wait for the "window" to appear > > What happens then (after other brief messages)... > >hc0: device detected >hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected >hc0: checking for ATA 1 >hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected >hc0: resetting drives >hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM >hc0: LBA supported >hc0: IORDY supported >Registering hc0 >hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) >hd0: 4096 sectors >hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies >Registering hd0 >hd0: no label >hd0: (reports block size) >hd0: (reports disk size in total) >IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI >Registering sc0 >sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > >(etc. until it panics) > > There's no documentation on what any of these messages mean, nor the >numbers associated with them. I assume hc0 is a process, and not a >device? The HD appears to be fine and gets registered as hd0:, but then >we get a line from something saying that disk 1 is ATAPI - but what is >disk 1? The HD or the CD? Then it registers sc0:, what is that? the >CD? if so, why does it go back to hc0 after that? > > The messages almost seem randomly generated. Why does it ID the ATAPI >CD before ID'ing the HD? Why do we then get another report of the ATAPI >drive later, still before it boots it? And why can't it boot it? > >Maury >
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 01:00:26 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5ovhdb$1ij@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <datamagik-2606971929520001@tcnet01-43.austin.texas.net> Jay Riley wrote in article ... :>well, as in everything you buy, there is a difference between inexpensive :>cheap and poor quality cheap when it comes to computers. you just :>shouldn't buy the poor quality stuff. : :Okay so you're saying wintel PCs are cheaper than Mac PCs, but you :shouldn't buy cheap PCs or (functional) Macs? No, wait you're saying that :you CAN use cheap stuff if you have expertise to distinguish it from cheap :stuff that doesn't work correctly. Why not buy a Mac and save yourself the :headaches? It's like buying stereo equipment. Like you have Sony, Sharp, and (insert the name of the cheapest stereo at Kmart) brands. Sony is great and all, but expensive. You can usually get the same quality with Sharp for much less. Of course (whatever's cheapest) is dirt cheap, but its also crap. Of course, if you spent time using and reading about PCs, you'd know which brands are good, which are inexpensive and good, and which are pure crap. Just as I'm sure you know what kind of parts you want in your Mac. I really don't recommend building your own computer without spending a few weeks reading magazines and books, because you do need to know what you're getting into. But it is just like buying a car or buying audio and video equipment, or do you just buy Mercedes and Sony just for the comfort of not worrying what you're buying? "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: stevehix@DeleteToReplysafemail.com (Steve Hix) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:21:30 -0700 Organization: South Valley Internet Message-ID: <stevehix-2606972221310001@ip34.safemail.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> In article <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net>, abuse@127.0.0.1 wrote: > >> and you know what? you can put you pants on backwards too... who invented > >> those stupid things?!?! =) > > > > No actually, you can't, you'll notice it instantly. There is no such > >thing on IDE, the connector is the same on the top and bottom so there's > >no way to know if it's hooked up wrong. > > Notice that red line on the edge of the ribbon? That tells you where > pin 1 is located. Look on the motherboard and see where it says 1 or > has a small triangle. Match the red line with that. His particular cable apparently didn't have the red line. *Bad* design, depending on a color marker.
From: d89cb@efd.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 06:03:42 GMT Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden Message-ID: <5ovl3u$2ek$1@news.lth.se> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <datamagik-2506971837470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net> <maury-2506972039130001@199.166.204.230> NNTP-Posting-User: d89cb In article <maury-2506972039130001@199.166.204.230>, Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> wrote: > >> If that doesn't appeal to you (and your agreement with Apple doesn't >> prohibit it) maybe you could send ME your preview copy and let me monkey >> with it on a colleague's machine running VPC. > > I'd love to, but without that boot floppy I don't know what good it is. I beleive that an image of the boot floppy is available for download from NeXTAnswers. > >Maury Best regards, // Christian Brunschen
From: d89cb@efd.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 06:26:48 GMT Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden Message-ID: <5ovmf8$2nv$1@news.lth.se> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> NNTP-Posting-User: d89cb (All my comments are based on my knowledge and my understanding, and in some cases on conjecture and/or guesses on my part, but based on some experience with N[eE]XT[sS][tT][eE][pP]/OPENSTEP. I have it running nicely on my Cube :) In article <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230>, Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> wrote: >In article <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net>, see .sig for real address wrote: > >> The master should go on the end connector, AFAIK. Also, there is >> usually a jumper on the drive which picks whether it is master or >> slave, cable select, or stand-alone. > > The CD has a jumper for MA/SL and CS (oddly numbered 3 down, reverse of >what you'd think), just what is Cable Select anyway? > > For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my tests... > >a) boot >b) select Adaptech 154x as the SCSI controller for the CD-ROM > - as instructed in the NeXTAnswers >c) select EIDE and ATAPI > - some have suggested this is actually incorrect and you > should instead select the Primary/Secondary settings >d) wait for the "window" to appear > > What happens then (after other brief messages)... > >hc0: device detected >hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected >hc0: checking for ATA 1 >hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected >hc0: resetting drives >hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM >hc0: LBA supported >hc0: IORDY supported >Registering hc0 >hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) >hd0: 4096 sectors >hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies >Registering hd0 >hd0: no label >hd0: (reports block size) >hd0: (reports disk size in total) >IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI >Registering sc0 >sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) So far, _very_ good .. a nice startup, just like it should be. >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request >hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > >(etc. until it panics) > > There's no documentation on what any of these messages mean, nor the >numbers associated with them. I assume hc0 is a process, and not a >device? Actually, I think it stands for 'Harddisk Controller 0' -- ie, the (E)IDE controller >The HD appears to be fine and gets registered as hd0:, but then >we get a line from something saying that disk 1 is ATAPI - but what is >disk 1? The HD or the CD? The CD, definitely. >Then it registers sc0:, what is that? the >CD? The 'SCSI Controller' -- a fake SCSI controller for talking to the ATAPI CD-ROM drive. IE, requests to the CD-ROM go from the kernel, to the 'sc0' 'SCSI'-controller, which talks to the 'hc0' (E)IDE controller, which talks to the 'sd0' (for 'SCSI Disk 0') CD-ROM. >if so, why does it go back to hc0 after that? hc0 is still the controller :) > > The messages almost seem randomly generated. Why does it ID the ATAPI >CD before ID'ing the HD? First, the system checks what devices are connected to the (E)IDE bus, and finds both the harddish (ATA 0) and the CD (ATAPI 1) Then is resets the devices; apparently it also finds out something about the CD which it reports. Or perhaps not about the CD< but rather about the (E)IDE controller ? Hmm. Then it registers the device, one at a time, giving more info about each device as it is registered: again, first the hard disk (hd0). The it wants to register the CDROM -- but in order to do that it needs some kind of SCSI controller (the ATAPI command set is almost identical to the SCSI command set for CD-ROM:s I beleive), and creates a 'fake' SCSI controller through which it will talk to the CDROM -- that's 'sc0' -- and registers the CD-ROM as a SCSI device, number 0 -- 'sd0'. After this, it begins to try reading from sd0 -- the CD-ROM drive -- but fails: 'No Data Request', and 'Not Ready for Packet Command' are the kernel's complaints about the communication with the CD-ROM drive. >Why do we then get another report of the ATAPI >drive later, still before it boots it? And why can't it boot it? There appear to be communication problems between your (E)IDE controller and your CD-ROM drive. I would probably look at the cabling, or at the CD-ROM drive; but then again you have already been through a lot of different iterations on your quest, so you have probably tried that ... *sigh* It's a real shame the installation doesn't work for you, I really think you'd like it once it works :/ Anyway, the best of luck with your continued installation attempts, if any .. > >Maury Best regards // Christian Brunschen
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 04:00:31 GMT Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.97Jun26232559@slave.doubleu.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> In-reply-to: "William Lowe"'s message of Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:59:36 -0400 In article <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: John C. Randolph wrote in article <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com>... :"William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: :>You have obviously not looked at parts prices lately. : :Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is :cheap? You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but :boy is it cheap! : :You get what you pay for. Your cliches don't hold water. You managed to ignore that I was referring to BRAND NAME PARTS, not crapola. Matrox, Buslogic, NEC, and Panasonic all made good parts. Bah, I'll contradict _both_ of you. Saying "PC hardware is hard to set up" and "But it's cheap!" are a pair of unrelated statements. There is _no_ good reason why PC hardware couldn't be cheap _and_ easy to set up. It's really no harder to build systems who's cables only plug in the right way than it is to build systems who's cables can be plugged in upside down and backwards. The problem is that nobody in the PC world ever was in a position to do it and make it _stick_. I'm on my third PC clone. The first someone else built for me a couple years back, and now that I know better, I'd never do that again (cost too much for what I got). The last two I've built myself from name parts. The _only_ piece of hardware that's given me real problems getting right was an EIDE drive, and that mainly because my system is running SCSI alongside EIDE. Of course, EIDE is a hack on top of a hack. A lot of angst would be avoided if the various BIOS' just gave you the "LBA" option, without even calling it LBA, and didn't give you the various other sector/cylinder/head crap unless you specifically asked for it. I mean, everything seems to be working, but I'm still not completely comfortable that some 1980 decision isn't going to come bite my wonderful machine somewhere painful... -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (606) 578-0412 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
From: erich@powerwareintl.com (Eric Harley) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: NeXT Newbie Questions Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:51:15 -0800 Organization: EdgeMedia Networks Message-ID: <erich-2606972251150001@ppp-207-105-88-12.snrf01.pacbell.net> Hello NeXT Developers, I was wondering if anybody out there could answer some questions for me. 1) If I develop a program under OpenStep for Mach on Intel, can I run that application on Windows NT/95 without installing OpenStep on the Windows machine? 2) Does anybody know about an OpenStep API for the Macintosh? I dont mean Rhapsody. 3) Will OpenStep 4.2 run on a Turbo Slab? Thanks alot for any and all help! erich@powerwareintl.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: lj@sdfsdfwuylitmwy.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ovvle$h4k@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <5ovvle$h4k@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Date: 27 Jun 1997 09:10:16 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5ovvle$h4k@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 05:11:23 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p0alb$271@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: [munch] >Your cliches don't hold water. You managed to ignore that I was >referring to BRAND NAME PARTS, not crapola. Matrox, Buslogic, >NEC, and Panasonic all made good parts. I did not deny that there are good parts available in the Intel world. My contention is that it doesn't matter how good a part is because the platform is riddled with fundamental design flaws. >:>>I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec >:>SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic >:>card that is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is >:>none, it has a five year warranty and easy to contact support. >: >:Oh, there's a catch all right, and you just indvertently pointed >:it out. You *need* easy to contact support, because it's such a >:fucking nightmare to get any two add-ons from different manufacturers >:to co-exist in a PC chassis. >: >Funny, I have add ons from five different manufacturers, Zoom, STB, >Buslogic, Orchid, Creative. Those are just the cards, I have two hard >drives by different manufacturers, and a SCSI CD-ROM from a third. I >didn't have any fucking nightmares, and I never contacted support. Out of a couple of hundred million PC's, it's not surprising that a person here or there had no trouble. Congratulations. You might also be the person who has a spontaneous remission from a case of Hodgkins disease. For a counter-anecdote, my own PC experience started in 1982 with 4 out of five brand-new IBM PC's dead on arrival. It's been a similar story ever since. [munch again] >Well then, I must be relying on the benevolence of God for my PC to work, >because I have changed my motherboard twice (not because either didn't work >but as an upgrade) I have changed my video card from a Diamond Stealth to >an STB Lightspeed128, installed a buslogic Flashpoint LT and a SCSI CD-ROM >(that took all of ten minutes), installed a second harddrive (that also >took ten minutes), installed a 3d accellerator, switched modems and sound >cards, and upgraded my processor. And not a damn thing didn't work. Maybe >you'd like to explain to me why my machine works, after all according to >you PCs are crap and something will conflict. What the hell is it, because >I can't find it! Benevolence of God? I've heard it said that God helps those who help themselves, and if you're willing to tolerate a PC, IMNSHO, you are not helping yourself. It's not the hand of God, but simply the law of averages that's spared you from developing an ulcer from frustration with the brain-damage that riddles the PC business. -jcr
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 04:38:36 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p08ns$lr@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> <maury-2606971447250001@199.166.204.230> maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) writes: > In this particular case it's that, and the specific needs of this >install. If the NeXT drivers could support a CD on one bus and a HD on >the other this wouldn't be a problem. However, the hardware doesn't help >either, making a straightforward modification almost impossible. There's only so much that a driver or an install script can do when they're running on a platform with so many variables. Consider for a moment the fact that there is no *standard* way for a PC board to advertise what resources it has (a'la' Nubus, NeXTBus, SBus, etc.) PCI plug and play doesn't. So, NeXTSTEP, Linux, BSD, etc all have to try to deal with an unpredictable environment while installing on an Intel box, and they make their best guesses. -jcr
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 04:43:41 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p091d$ub@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) writes: >In article <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: >> Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is cheap? >> You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but boy is >> it cheap! > I should say the reason I posted was to calm down - sorry for taking it >all out on you in the process. > However, this is a good area to comment. I've now been told that if I >didn't have such a cheap machine it would install find and this IDE issue >wouldn't be a problem. In the same message we get that PC's are cheap and >you can buy cheap parts to replace them.... The problem isn't that you have a *cheap* PC, the problem is that it's a PC at all. You can go and buy a gold-plated Pentium with a moonrock faceplate, and solid platinum back plane, and you're still going to be stuck with design flaws that are inherited from IBM's half-assed cost cutting decisions in 1979. If you want a cheap machine to play around with OpenStep, pick up one of Deepspace or MTech's CIA surplus NeXT slabs. -jcr
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 04:51:01 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p09f5$1am@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> <SCOTT.97Jun26232559@slave.doubleu.com> scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) writes: >In article <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com>, > "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: > John C. Randolph wrote in article <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com>... > :"William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: > :>You have obviously not looked at parts prices lately. > : > :Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is > :cheap? You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but > :boy is it cheap! > : > :You get what you pay for. > Your cliches don't hold water. You managed to ignore that I was > referring to BRAND NAME PARTS, not crapola. Matrox, Buslogic, NEC, > and Panasonic all made good parts. >Bah, I'll contradict _both_ of you. Saying "PC hardware is hard to >set up" and "But it's cheap!" are a pair of unrelated statements. >There is _no_ good reason why PC hardware couldn't be cheap _and_ easy >to set up. It's really no harder to build systems who's cables only >plug in the right way than it is to build systems who's cables can be >plugged in upside down and backwards. The problem is that nobody in >the PC world ever was in a position to do it and make it _stick_. I must have missed something, Scott, since I don't see where you're contradicting me. I'm going to gainsay your last statement, though, and point out that IBM *was* in a position to set a hardware standard for PC's when they first shipped the damn things, and remained in such a position until the launch of the MicroChannel abortions. -jcr
From: herren@flannet.middlebury.edu (David Herren) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT Newbie Questions Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 08:42:40 -0400 Organization: Language Schools of Middlebury College Message-ID: <msg78224.thr-9c7cde3e.54c5638@flannet.middlebury.edu> References: <erich-2606972251150001@ppp-207-105-88-12.snrf01.pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-ID: <msg78224.thr-9c7cde3e.54c5638.part0@flannet.middlebury.edu> <bold>erich@powerwareintl.com,UseNet writes:</bold> >1) If I develop a program under OpenStep for Mach on Intel, can I run th= at >application on Windows NT/95 without installing OpenStep on the Windows >machine? >2) Does anybody know about an OpenStep API for the Macintosh? I dont mea= n >Rhapsody. >3) Will OpenStep 4.2 run on a Turbo Slab? I am not an expert but I can take a stab at these: >1) If I develop a program under OpenStep for Mach on Intel, can I run th= at >application on Windows NT/95 without installing OpenStep on the Windows >machine? You will have to install the Openstep libraries on the Wintel box for you= r application to run. I don't yet really know how to do this short of buy= ing the developer or user package, but I know that it can be done and I s= poke to an engineer with NeXT who says they are working on making it significantly easier--especially now t= hat they have announced that the are going to release the windows runtime= s for free. >2) Does anybody know about an OpenStep API for the Macintosh? I dont mea= n >Rhapsody. At WWDC this past month Apple announced that they had completed the engin= eering study and that they would indeed be porting the openstep (aka Rhap= sody) libraries to the traditional Mac OS. >3) Will OpenStep 4.2 run on a Turbo Slab? I have it running quite well on a non-Turbo cube with NextDimension so I = would assume that it would work on later generation black hardware. -- = David Herren -------------------------------------------------- Web: http://www.middlebury.edu/~herren/ General: herren@flannet.middlebury.edu NeXTMail only: herren@barcelona.cet.middlebury.edu
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:03:17 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971103170001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <5ouu56$qip@winter.erols.com> In article <5ouu56$qip@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" <wlowe@erols.com> wrote: > If I'm reading this correctly, you have your CD-ROM attached to the > Adaptech SCSI card or SCSI connector on the motherboard. No, the CD-ROM is on the IDE bus, and you have to install the Adaptech driver as a part of the install - you later remove it once the OS is installed. > and slave. If this is the case, then you should chose IDE (or ATAPI) for > your CD-ROM controller. You're not supposed to do this. Maury
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: Jonathan Arnold <jdarnold@world.std.com> Subject: Re: System Commander and Netware woes with OS4.1 Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Message-ID: <33B3C05A.CDACF285@world.std.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 13:30:02 GMT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <33B29290.8C63D67F@amrcorp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Organization: Roger Wagner Publishing > My two problems are: > 1. It seems that System Commander's (a multiple OS loader) boot block > on > I have one HD, an EIDE 2GB with 3 partitions: 700MB as DOS (FAT16), > 300MB for UNIX/OpenStep, 1GB NTFS (WinNT) and I need system commander Well, for what it is worth, I have Win95 OSR2 and OpenStep 4.1 on a PC with the newest System Commander (v3.0) and all is fine. In fact, SysCommand surprised me by not only recognizing the NeXT partition, but offering a special icon! +===================================================+ | Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jdarnold@world.std.com) | | Programmer Roger Wagner Publishing | | http://world.std.com/~jdarnold | +===================================================+
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:12:53 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971112530001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <5ovfv5$2298$1@news.gate.net> In article <5ovfv5$2298$1@news.gate.net>, "Brian Johnson" <brianjay@gate.net> wrote: > OK, I may have an idea for you. (If you're using an IDE CD-ROM that's a > slave of your HD). While you're doing setup, try hittin F7(or whatever I > forgot) a few more times to get to the Dual IDE controller driver. Use this > driver for both the CD and the Hard Drive. This is how I got it to work. I > wouldn't have known about this other driver if I hadn't read about it in > another posting. I did this too. It allowed me to put the drives on their original busses (HD on the Primary, CD on the Secondary) but it still died at the same point. It appears that the driver selection is not the problem, and the whole idea of placing the drives on the same bus is simply incorrect and outdated information. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:04:53 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971104530001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com> <maury-2606971425040001@199.166.204.230> <5ouuql$qip@winter.erols.com> In article <5ouuql$qip@winter.erols.com>, "William Lowe" <wlowe@erols.com> wrote: > This actually didn't have to do with anyone particular OS, but it is a > property of Intel i430 chipsets. I assumed that you have a motherboard > with an Intel chipset because they are more popular with manufacturers. > The CD-ROM will work on the primary, but it is slower than if you put it on > the secondary controller as the master drive. This is true on any OS, there's less contention if they are on different busses. > But if your OS can not read the secondary controller with a > CD-ROM, then you can put it on the primary. What do you think I was doing when I was plugging in the busses? Sheesh. > Don't complain to me, complain to Intel for how they designed it, and > complain to Apple for not supporting a very common configuration. That's exactly what I was doing! Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:09:38 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971109380001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <33B32F11.2D4723A@epix.net> In article <33B32F11.2D4723A@epix.net>, removethiskissrw@epix.net wrote: > The first question, I come up with is why you are using both a SCSI and > and an IDE (ATAPI) CDROM for the install? I'm not, but to use the ATAPI driver you must first select the Adaptec SCSI driver. Apparently this is not true if you are using the (new) Primary/Secondary driver, but no combinations of drivers does anything any differently and I'm starting to agree that it's likely the CDROM that's the problem. > But I'm sure that will all be fixed in no-time. Yep. I've seen a number of complaints here and other areas that the drivers supplied with OpenStep tend to be old, and slow. I'm hoping that Apple will address this, at least on the PMac platform! Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:11:17 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971111170001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <Qngn_xa00iWm0AIXs0@andrew.cmu.edu> In article <Qngn_xa00iWm0AIXs0@andrew.cmu.edu>, Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: > It sounds strongly like the CD-ROM drive you have is a IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM, > and not a SCSI CD-ROM. It is, isn't a NEC-1400 ATAPI drive. > Do you have an Adaptec 154x controller and a SCSI CD-ROM or do you have > an IDE CD-ROM? In the EIDE NeXTAnswer they state that you have to load a SCSI driver first, and then a IDE driver if you're going to use one. This is due to some (unexplained) bug. They tell you to install the Adaptech driver (even if you have no SCSI) then the proper EIDE driver. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:13:12 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971113120001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> <stevehix-2606972221310001@ip34.safemail.com> In article <stevehix-2606972221310001@ip34.safemail.com>, stevehix@DeleteToReplysafemail.com (Steve Hix) wrote: > His particular cable apparently didn't have the red line. > > *Bad* design, depending on a color marker. Well it has a line now... Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:21:27 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971121270001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <5ovmf8$2nv$1@news.lth.se> In article <5ovmf8$2nv$1@news.lth.se>, d89cb@efd.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) wrote: > So far, _very_ good .. a nice startup, just like it should be. Yeah, that's how it looked to me too. I snipped the parts where it ID'ed and installed my keyboard, mouse and monitor. > Actually, I think it stands for 'Harddisk Controller 0' -- ie, the (E)IDE > controller Yes, very strange. Then you get that other message out of the blue, "IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI". I find this strange because it seems to suggest that the HD would be drive zero, but it never referrs to such a drive. > The 'SCSI Controller' -- a fake SCSI controller for talking to the ATAPI > CD-ROM drive. IE, requests to the CD-ROM go from the kernel, to the 'sc0' > 'SCSI'-controller, which talks to the 'hc0' (E)IDE controller, which talks > to the 'sd0' (for 'SCSI Disk 0') CD-ROM. Got it. > First, the system checks what devices are connected to the (E)IDE bus, and > finds both the harddish (ATA 0) and the CD (ATAPI 1) Right. > Then is resets the devices; apparently it also finds out something about the > CD which it reports. Or perhaps not about the CD< but rather about the > (E)IDE controller ? Hmm. Maybe, hard to say. > Then it registers the device, one at a time, giving more info about > each device as it is registered: Right. > register the CDROM -- but in order to do that it needs some kind of SCSI > controller (the ATAPI command set is almost identical to the SCSI command set > for CD-ROM:s I beleive), and creates a 'fake' SCSI controller through which > it will talk to the CDROM -- that's 'sc0' -- and registers the CD-ROM as a > SCSI device, number 0 -- 'sd0'. Got it. That's why they need a SCSI driver to be installed I'll bet, because there's code in the driver you need that should be at some other layer. > 'No Data Request', and 'Not Ready for Packet Command' are the kernel's > complaints about the communication with the CD-ROM drive. Yeah, any idea what these mean? > It's a real shame the installation doesn't work for you, I really think you'd > like it once it works :/ I'm sure I would, otherwise I wouldn't have spent so much time on it. It does prove an old bit of advice someone told me a long time ago though - never tighten the thumbscrews on a PC, because SOMEDAY you'll be going back in. > Anyway, the best of luck with your continued installation attempts, if any .. I'm going to try another brand of CD. That's all I can think of. If that's not it, then it's the IDE controller itself (for whatever reason) but then it should have worked in the first machine I tried (which was a SCSI HD with a ATAPI CD). I'm pretty sure I know _what_ I should be doing now. If the CD is the only EIDE drive, then it has to be master on the primary. If not it can be slave to the HD on the primary _or_ (with the driver that's included) master on the secondary. You select a SCSI driver, the "correct one" if need be or the Adaptech if you don't have one, then select either the EIDE and ATAPI driver if they are master/slave, or the Primary/Secondary if they are both masters on different busses. I guess the good thing here now is that's I'm pretty much expert level on installing it... Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:22:33 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971122330001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <4ngRKHi00iWV08TZQ0@andrew.cmu.edu> <maury-2606971447250001@199.166.204.230> <5p08ns$lr@idiom.com> In article <5p08ns$lr@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > So, NeXTSTEP, Linux, BSD, etc all have to try to deal with an unpredictable > environment while installing on an Intel box, and they make their best > guesses. Linux used to be this finicky as well, but they've updated a lot of the drivers and they seem to work a lot better now. Let's hope Apple does the same here. Maury
From: hanske@ratatosk.ratatosk.gol.com (Hans Shimizu Karlsson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: CAPer .afpfile Date: 27 Jun 1997 17:23:52 GMT Organization: Global OnLine Japan Message-ID: <5p0sv8$2ft$1@godzilla.gol.com> Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] wrote: >You should put an mapping file called .afpfile similar to the >example presented in the README of CAPer V8 (see under the Info >menu) in your home directory and restart the file services. There are no mappings for tiff or pict. How should the lines for those formats look? Hans Karlsson hanske@ratatosk.com www@ratatosk.com info@ratatosk.com
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:06:56 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971106560001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <jlemonECEtrH.3v1@netcom.com> In article <jlemonECEtrH.3v1@netcom.com>, jlemon@netcom.com (Jonathan Lemon) wrote: > Just a couple of guesses: > > hc0 - IDE Controller #0 > hd0 - IDE Disk #0 > sc0 - SCSI Controller #0 > sd0 - SCSI Disk #0 (actually cdrom) Thanks. > The probe message shows that it detected the IDE controller first, then > probed the bus looking for devices, as well as what the bus controller > will support. It then registers the controller, and goes on to register > the devices. Ok, that makes sense. > From the information given, it seems that NeXT decided to > handle ATAPI devices as SCSI. Correct. I assume this streamlines higher level drivers and file management stuff. > The question then is why isn't the CDROM (sd0) > talking to "sc0", which it is presumably attached to? Exactly. Someone suggested that this CDROM simply isn't support - earlier NEC's aren't. SOMETHING is getting to the CDROM, every time the reset message comes up you can hear the head start moving... Maury
From: Bastian Schlueter <Bastian.Schlueter@no.spam> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 17:32:37 GMT Organization: Marvins home, a small place in Universe Message-ID: <5p0tfl$fih@marvin.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> Organisation: RRR Hello Maury, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: > For everyone reading, here's exactly what I am doing for all of my > tests... [...] > hc0: device detected > hc0: checking for ATA 0... detected > hc0: checking for ATA 1 > hc0: checking for ATAPI 1... detected > hc0: resetting drives > hc0: Device 1: ATAPI CD-ROM > hc0: LBA supported > hc0: IORDY supported > Registering hc0 > hd0: WDC (etc., id's it fine) > hd0: 4096 sectors > hd0: using multisector (16 block) copies > Registering hd0 > hd0: no label > hd0: (reports block size) > hd0: (reports disk size in total) > IDEDisk: disk1 is ATAPI > Registering sc0 > sd0: NEC CD-ROM (again, it ID's the drive fine) ^^^^^^^^^^ > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: No Data Request > hc0: ATAPI Device 1: Not Ready for Packet Command > > (etc. until it panics) > You are using a NEC CDR1400 right? Its not ATAPI 1.2 compliant. Its ATAPI 2.5(?). The NeXT EIDEdriver doesn't support that. Get a different CD-ROM. Had this problem myself :( hth Bastian -- e-mail: Bastian.Schlueter@gmd.de http://www.first.gmd.de/~buzz RRR100R -- Was wir da machen ist verboten, aber es ist wunderbar (TSS) --
From: planetary <kris@xmission.xmission.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 12:07:32 -0600 Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900) Message-ID: <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> In comp.sys.next.advocacy William Lowe <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: : Don Yacktman wrote in article <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com>... : : The typical PC clone hardware is sh*t, nothing more and nothing less. : Spoken like a truely closed minded person. You have obviously not looked : at parts prices lately. I'm sure everyone told you that you need a Adaptec : SCSI card for a PC if you run SCSI. But you can get a Buslogic card that : is faster and costs half as much. The catch? There is none, it has a five : year warranty and easy to contact support. You can get a 4mb WRAM : Millennium for $169, NEC memory for $55 each 16mb, and a Panasonic 24x : CD-ROM for $112. Of course you could just tell me that these brands are : crap, but you'll be blowing hot air. As for installing these things, most : normal people have absolutely no problems figuring out which end of the : cable goes there. There is a little red strip on the 1st cable of the : ribbon, and on any decent motherboard there is a little one on the end of : the connector where that 1st cable of the ribbon goes. The process is the : same for the drive, and most drives even have a notch on the connector to : make it completely idiot proof. If you know how to install SIMMs or DIMMs, : a ribbon cable for an IDE drive isn't that difficult. Getting good : hardware for a PC isn't about luck, and neither is installing it. You're blaming the victim. Getting PC hardware to run is often a crapshoot, no matter how patronizing are the PC apologists. ATI revs the RAMDAC on their cards several times in a given fiscal quarter because RAMDAC X is cheaper than week than RAMDAC Y. These revs often break drivers gratuitously. Why is this the user's or integrator's fault? BusLogic and Adaptec rev the BIOSes on their peripherals tens of times throughout the lifespan of the products to fix usability problems with the cards. These revs often break drivers gratuitously. Why is this the user's or integrator's fault? Dell changes system components throughout the product lifespan so often that if you ordered ten OptiPlex machines, you might get ten different disks, ten different SCSI BIOSes, and ten different RAMDACs. This in turn causes major headaches for IS support staff. Are they stupid if they cannot keep the machines running? Why are not all ATAPI CD-ROMs truly ATAPI compliant? Why is this the consumer's fault? Why is it that a certain model of Fujitsu disc won't communicate with a specific rev of an Adaptec SCSI controller? Let's face it. Consumers are raped by the gratuitous incompatibilities of PC components. Blaming the victim isn't the answer. ...................kris -- Kristopher Magnusson kris@xmission.com (no NeXTmail, please) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contains freshness saver packet. DO NOT EAT.
From: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 17:00:40 GMT Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SCOTT.97Jun27124026@slave.doubleu.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> <SCOTT.97Jun26232559@slave.doubleu.com> <5p09f5$1am@idiom.com> In-reply-to: jcr@idiom.com's message of 27 Jun 1997 04:51:01 -0700 In article <5p09f5$1am@idiom.com> jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) writes: scott@doubleu.com (Scott Hess) writes: >In article <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com>, > "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: > John C. Randolph wrote in article <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com>... > :"William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: > :>You have obviously not looked at parts prices lately. > : > :Oh, a compelling argument! Did we mention that PC hardware is > :cheap? You'll get an ulcer if you have to add a board to it, but > :boy is it cheap! > : > :You get what you pay for. > Your cliches don't hold water. You managed to ignore that I was > referring to BRAND NAME PARTS, not crapola. Matrox, Buslogic, NEC, > and Panasonic all made good parts. >Bah, I'll contradict _both_ of you. I must have missed something, Scott, since I don't see where you're contradicting me. Last fall I put together a very nice, solid, stable, overall _excellent_ Intel system for running NeXTSTEP. And only paid $2500 (including a ViewSonic 17PS monitor). I managed this by searching for specific quality parts and putting them together myself. Most vendors were selling comparable systems for slightly more, though I've no doubt I could have saved myself perhaps $200 by letting a vendor pick my components. As I look at it, I paid the same price but got a better quality system (as opposed to getting the same quality system for a lower price). I've bought expensive workstations in the past, and generally felt I got what I paid for. But I feel I got a better deal for what I paid for on this Intel machine. [Just keep in mind that it wasn't possible to achieve the same quality on commodity PC hardware at _any_ price back when NeXT was selling hardware.] >The problem is that nobody in the PC world ever was in a position >to do it and make it _stick_. I'm going to gainsay your last statement, though, and point out that IBM *was* in a position to set a hardware standard for PC's when they first shipped the damn things, and remained in such a position until the launch of the MicroChannel abortions. Well, technically, but you'd have a tough time convincing most people that they actually could have done it, not so much because there was so much other weight in the market, but because IBM showed absolutely no interest in the PC platform at the time they had the ability to control it. [Ha! I'm sure that explains a lot.] Also, I thought MicroChannel _was_ the way IBM intended to exert such influence on the PC market! -- scott hess <scott@doubleu.com> (606) 578-0412 http://www.doubleu.com/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Idiots Guide to the Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell in Seven Days, Unleashed>
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From: tj@oro.net (Thomas Ferreira) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Howto use a NeXT .PS file on my MAC Date: 27 Jun 1997 18:54:00 GMT Organization: "oronet, Penn Valley, CA" Message-ID: <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> I would like to make a .PS file on my NeXT Computer and somehow load it on my PowerMac and then send this file to my Postscript 600DPI Mac printer. How and what software do I need to make my MAC see a .PS file made on my NeXT. Tom
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:05:37 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5p12u3$qv@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com> planetary wrote in article <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com>... :In comp.sys.next.advocacy William Lowe <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: :You're blaming the victim. And you're taking this too personally. I'm not blaming the victim if the hardware is crap. I'm just saying that there isn't that :Getting PC hardware to run is often a crapshoot, no matter :how patronizing are the PC apologists. : How often it is a crapshoot often depends on how fanatical is the Mac user to whom you are talking. :ATI revs the RAMDAC on their cards several times in a given fiscal :quarter because RAMDAC X is cheaper than week than RAMDAC Y. These revs :often break drivers gratuitously. Why is this the user's or integrator's :fault? You are taking this too personally. If the manufacturer changes something, it is their responsiblity to provide the drivers for it. But if a manufacturer releases a card with a new RAMDAC, why does that change what someone who already has installed? If a company doesn't release new drivers for their new equipment, then it is their fault. But while ATI may change RAMDACs all the time without providing current drivers, I haven't seen evidence that this is common in the video card industry. Besides, I thought ATI also made Mac video cards? Having troubles with your ATI card? :BusLogic and Adaptec rev the BIOSes on their peripherals tens of times :throughout the lifespan of the products to fix usability problems with the :cards. These revs often break drivers gratuitously. Why is this the user's :or integrator's fault? I don't know about Adaptec, but Buslogic provides new drivers twice yearly, drivers that are current with their BIOS. Also, the company can't rev a BIOS that has already been installed, so if you already have the machine, just because the company releases a new BIOS doesn't mean you absoultely have to install it. :Blaming the victim isn't the answer. And neither is providing a lot of smoke with no fire. I just wonder how much experience you've had with all the problems that you describe. Not experience that you have heard other people have, but your own personal experience. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 06:12:30 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5ovlke$334$1@news.digifix.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <datamagik-2506971837470001@tcnet01-41.austin.texas.net> <maury-2506972039130001@199.166.204.230> <5ovl3u$2ek$1@news.lth.se> In-Reply-To: <5ovl3u$2ek$1@news.lth.se> On 06/26/97, Christian Brunschen wrote: >In article <maury-2506972039130001@199.166.204.230>, >Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> wrote: >> >>> If that doesn't appeal to you (and your agreement with Apple doesn't >>> prohibit it) maybe you could send ME your preview copy and let me monkey >>> with it on a colleague's machine running VPC. >> >> I'd love to, but without that boot floppy I don't know what good it is. > >I beleive that an image of the boot floppy is available for download from >NeXTAnswers. > Actually, the 4.2 boot floppies are _not_ on NextAnswers right now. I thought someone (Mike Paquette??) had said that he'd get them on there...... -- Scott Anguish <sanguish@digifix.com> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information <URL:http://www.stepwise.com>
From: Matthew_Seaman@plsys.co.uk (Matthew Seaman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NeXT Newbie Questions Date: 27 Jun 1997 12:55:40 GMT Organization: P&L Systems Message-ID: <5p0d8c$h14$1@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> References: <erich-2606972251150001@ppp-207-105-88-12.snrf01.pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 In <erich-2606972251150001@ppp-207-105-88-12.snrf01.pacbell.net> Eric Harley wrote: > Hello NeXT Developers, > I was wondering if anybody out there could answer some questions for me. > > 1) If I develop a program under OpenStep for Mach on Intel, can I run that > application on Windows NT/95 without installing OpenStep on the Windows > machine? Yes, but: i) You will have to program strictly to the OpenStep api --- avoiding having a few unix-isms creeping in can be tricky. ii) You will need to recompile your app for WinNT/95. Once Yellow Box is released, you will be able to program in Java, and so run without any need for recompilation. iii) You will need to supply the OpenStep runtime dll's with your app if it's the first OpenStep app to be installed on the WinNT/95 machine. Apple lets you do this for free. > 2) Does anybody know about an OpenStep API for the Macintosh? I dont mean > Rhapsody. Apple has announced a "90% compatible" version of the yellow box to run under MacOS 8, which should start becoming available sometime in '98. > 3) Will OpenStep 4.2 run on a Turbo Slab? Yes. > Thanks alot for any and all help! You're welcome. Matthew [Posted and Mailed] -- Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate nin iam adesse. Matthew Seaman P&L Systems, 12 The Broadway, Amersham, Bucks., HP7 0HP, UK Tel: +44 1494 432422 Fax: +44 1494 432478
From: Matthew_Seaman@plsys.co.uk (Matthew Seaman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 13:07:26 GMT Organization: P&L Systems Message-ID: <5p0due$h14$2@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <33B32F11.2D4723A@epix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 In <33B32F11.2D4723A@epix.net> Rick Kiss wrote: > The first question, I come up with is why you are using both a SCSI and and > an IDE (ATAPI) CDROM for the install? My preference, when installing > NeXTSTEP, was always to use SCSI CDROM onto either IDE, SCSI or (later) > EIDE drives. One CDROM is sufficient. OpenStep fakes ATAPI devices as SCSI devices. Thus even in an IDE only system, your hard drive is /dev/hd0, and your CD Rom is /dev/sd0. So it is true, in a bizarre and twisted sense, to say that OpenStep only installes from SCSI CD Roms... Matthew -- Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate nin iam adesse. Matthew Seaman P&L Systems, 12 The Broadway, Amersham, Bucks., HP7 0HP, UK Tel: +44 1494 432422 Fax: +44 1494 432478
From: frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: CAPer .afpfile Date: 27 Jun 1997 20:00:11 GMT Organization: Frank's Area 51 Message-ID: <5p164b$91t$1@orista.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <5p0sv8$2ft$1@godzilla.gol.com> Cc: hanske@ratatosk.ratatosk.gol.com In <5p0sv8$2ft$1@godzilla.gol.com> Hans Shimizu Karlsson wrote: > Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] wrote: > > >You should put an mapping file called .afpfile similar to the > >example presented in the README of CAPer V8 (see under the Info > >menu) in your home directory and restart the file services. > > There are no mappings for tiff or pict. How should the lines for those > formats > look? .pict Raw 'ABCD' 'PICT' "This is a PICT image file." .tiff Raw 'ABCD' 'TIFF' "This is a TIFF image file." Where ABCD is the Creator ID of your prefered application on the Mac. The mapping only takes place when there is no finderinfo for the given file (if they are copied on the Mac volume from the NeXT side). If you save a file from the Mac side it should get the type and creator of the saving application and the mapping is ignored. -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:56:25 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5p19e2$2l7@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com> <5p12u3$qv@winter.erols.com> William Lowe wrote in article <5p12u3$qv@winter.erols.com>... : : planetary wrote in article <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com>... ::In comp.sys.next.advocacy William Lowe <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: : ::You're blaming the victim. : :And you're taking this too personally. I'm not blaming the victim if the :hardware is crap. I'm just saying that there isn't that : Like a complete idiot, I posted the message without finishing that sentence. Here is the completed thought: I'm just saying that there isn't that much crap out in the PC hardware market. There are plenty of hardware manufacturers who provide updated drivers when they upgrade their equipment, eliminating that problem of broken drivers. There are plenty of manufacturers who stick with the same chipsets and merely upgrade their drivers (Matrox Millenniums have been the same since they were introduced). And just because Dell might choose motherboards from company a, and then company b the next week does not automatically mean that they are incompatible, or that they even differ much one from another. Dell uses Intel chipsets, and Intel motherboards are compatible with each other, all accept EDO memory (SDRAM on VX and TX is an option, just as ECC is an option on HX and PPro and PII motherboards), all accept standard ISA and PCI cards. The extra options that the higher end boards provide does not make them incompatible with the lower end boards, those options don't even apply to the add on hardware cards. And buying quality PC parts does not mean paying a premium. There are vendors, like Tyan (motherboards), Ensoniq (soundcards), Hercules (video), and others who produce low cost, high quality parts that 99 times out of 100 don't require service. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: drifterusa@macconnect.com (John Bauer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:25:55 -0500 Organization: KAOS Message-ID: <drifterusa-2706971225560001@accs-as33-dp04.dlls.grid.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <5ovmf8$2nv$1@news.lth.se> <maury-2706971121270001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz wrote: > I guess the good thing here now is that's I'm pretty much expert level > on installing it... Look on the bright side. If you ever get this thing up and running, you will have earned the right to be a PC advocate. ;-) John Bauer
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:12:55 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5p13bo$qv@winter.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> <5p0alb$271@idiom.com> John C. Randolph wrote in article <5p0alb$271@idiom.com>... :It's not the hand of God, but simply the law of averages that's :spared you from developing an ulcer from frustration with the :brain-damage that riddles the PC business. Then you agree that the average PC user using the average PC does not have problems with hardware conflicts. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: mpaque@moviola.next.com (Mike Paquette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 21:03:12 GMT Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Message-ID: <5p19qg$12ke$1@news.apple.com> References: <5ovlke$334$1@news.digifix.com> In article <5ovlke$334$1@news.digifix.com> sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) writes: > Actually, the 4.2 boot floppies are _not_ on NextAnswers right > now. > > I thought someone (Mike Paquette??) had said that he'd get > them on there...... The boot floppy image needed to boot Prelude to Rhapsody (AKA 4.2) on Black hardware is in NeXTAnswers 2071. (It's the 3.3 image, but nothing has changed.) http://www.next.com/NeXTanswers/HTMLFiles/2071.htmld/2071.html The 4.2 boot floppy images for Intel don't appear to be on line right now. -- Mike Paquette Well, if there *were* anything to say, it would be with the understanding that the PR/Marketing people want to make the announcements on products, so anything I have to say wouldn't actually exist until after then, so what
From: frank@this.NO_SPAM.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Howto use a NeXT .PS file on my MAC Date: 27 Jun 1997 23:11:16 GMT Organization: Frank's Area 51 Message-ID: <5p1hak$a7k$1@orista.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> Cc: tj@oro.net In <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> Thomas Ferreira wrote: > I would like to make a .PS file on my NeXT Computer and somehow load it on > my PowerMac and then send this file to my Postscript 600DPI Mac printer. > How and what software do I need to make my MAC see a .PS file made on my > NeXT. Ghostscript. See http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/index.html To download a PS file on the Mac try any freeware PS downloader, there are several on the info-mac archive. -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: as;dofj@oasdjflkas.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5p032r$d6k@usenet84.supernews.com> Control: cancel <5p032r$d6k@usenet84.supernews.com> Date: 27 Jun 1997 19:11:34 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5p032r$d6k@usenet84.supernews.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 16:28:49 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p1ibh$2ih@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> <5p0alb$271@idiom.com> <5p13bo$qv@winter.erols.com> "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: > John C. Randolph wrote in article <5p0alb$271@idiom.com>... >:It's not the hand of God, but simply the law of averages that's >:spared you from developing an ulcer from frustration with the >:brain-damage that riddles the PC business. >Then you agree that the average PC user using the average PC does not have >problems with hardware conflicts. Nice try at twisting my words there, but no: I don't agree at all that the average PC user does not have problems with hardware conflicts. What I said was that out of such a large number of PC victims, it's not surprising that there are some number of examples of people who haven't run into the problems caused by IBM's fuck-ups. -jcr
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:53:25 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971553260001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <jlemonECEtrH.3v1@netcom.com> <maury-2706971106560001@199.166.204.230> In article <maury-2706971106560001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: > Exactly. Someone suggested that this CDROM simply isn't support - > earlier NEC's aren't. SOMETHING is getting to the CDROM, every time the > reset message comes up you can hear the head start moving... Well that's not the issue either, I got the CD out of the other machine and plugged it in, no go. Unless it's a bad EIDE controller on the 166 (which wouldn't explain how it can ID the CD and make it do things - and work perfectly under Windows) then the ony explanation is that NeXT's EIDE support basically doesn't work. I went back to the other machine just as a test armed with all my new knowledge, and as before the SymbiosLogic card won't work because it can't "enable interrupts". I didn't bother putting the IDE HD into that machine, one IDE is just like another. Unless someone can come up with a better explanation, NeXT devices drivers *suck*. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 15:54:50 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-2706971554500001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5osen6$cjg$1@news.gate.net> <maury-2606971351040001@199.166.204.230> <33b2ee20.2545562@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971657310001@199.166.204.230> <5p0tfl$fih@marvin.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de> In article <5p0tfl$fih@marvin.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de>, Bastian Schlueter <Bastian.Schlueter@no.spam> wrote: > You are using a NEC CDR1400 right? Its not ATAPI 1.2 compliant. Its > ATAPI 2.5(?). The NeXT EIDEdriver doesn't support that. Get a different > CD-ROM. Had this problem myself :( I did get another CDROM, some no-name one. Same problem. Maury
From: "Robert A. Decker" <comrade@umich.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 28 Jun 97 16:05:33 -0400 Organization: University of Michigan ITD News Server Message-ID: <AFDAE6D5-361746@141.214.134.235> References: <maury-2706971553260001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.itd.umich.edu/comp.sys.next.advocacy, nntp://news.itd.umich.edu/comp.sys.next.misc I had the same error messages with an NEC cd-rom. When I switched with another (I think it was a Hitachi, but I'm no longer sure), it started working. Ultimately, we just bought a box from Workstation 2000. They were passing fliers out at WWDC and have been great to deal with. The owner of the company has called me several times to see how things are going with the machine. They've been great to deal with. Here's their phone number: 1-800-ASTATION good luck, rob -- <mailto: "Robert A. Decker" comrade@umich.edu> Listen to my Realaudio playlist:<http://hmrl.cancer.med.umich.edu/Rob/index.ssi> Programmer Analyst - Health Media Research Lab University of Michigan Comprehensive Cancer Center "Get A Life" quote #10: "Wow. I'm a genius too. I think. BEEP." -Chris Elliott
From: drifterusa@macconnect.com (John Bauer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 22:49:10 -0500 Organization: KAOS Message-ID: <drifterusa-2706972249110001@accs-as802-dp15.atln.grid.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com> Kristopher Magnusson wrote: > Let's face it. Consumers are raped by the gratuitous incompatibilities of > PC components. Blaming the victim isn't the answer. And yet, they keep coming back for more... John (don't blame me I'm a Mac user) Bauer
From: drifterusa@macconnect.com (John Bauer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:04:47 -0500 Organization: KAOS Message-ID: <drifterusa-2806971404470001@accs-as803-dp03.atln.grid.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p13bo$qv@winter.erols.com> <5p1ibh$2ih@idiom.com> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p313b$99v@newsb.netnews.att.com> <5p3ha9$ng6$2@hecate.umd.edu> David T. Wang wrote: > I will readily admit that at times it takes some expertise to get a large > system of PC's going strong. Funny thing is that I've talked to a bunch > of "sysadmins" that barely know a serial port from a parallel port. If companies are so desperate to hire tech support staff that they'll take people who do not know anything about the machines they are supposed to support, doesn't it make sense to buy equipment that is easier to work with in the first place? Maybe an excess of newbies in tech support is the reason behind Gartner's findings of lower Mac support costs. Just a thought. John Bauer
From: planetary <kris@xmission.xmission.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 28 Jun 1997 15:25:15 -0600 Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900) Message-ID: <5p3vfr$13o@xmission.xmission.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5p0vh4$ip@xmission.xmission.com> <5p12u3$qv@winter.erols.com> In comp.sys.next.advocacy William Lowe <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: : And neither is providing a lot of smoke with no fire. I just wonder how : much experience you've had with all the problems that you describe. Not : experience that you have heard other people have, but your own personal : experience. You, sir, are attempting to use a logical fallacy called an ad hominem attack, where you attempt to divert attention from the substantive issue to the person making the argument. Let's indulge you for a moment. For the record: * I am personally responsible for the installation of hundreds of PCs running NEXTSTEP to many of NeXT's major clients. * I have installed NEXTSTEP/Intel on hundreds of PCs as an integrator. I have had to fly out to client sites to fix multi-hundred-thousand dollar installations of PCs because of fucked-up BIOSes on motherboards, bad ATI and BusLogic cards, and other problems related to PC nightmare commodity technology. * I have never owned a Mac. When you have spent your precious time and energy trying to help furious customers who are suffering from PC syndrome, when you have spent years in the trenches dealing with the commodity mindset of component vendors, then you will be allowed to claim that I have not paid my dues with PC hardware. Now, back to the issue. PC hardware is poorly integrated, is incompatible with itself, is hard to deal with for even seasoned professionals. Period. And you are blaming the victim. ..............kris -- Kristopher Magnusson kris@xmission.com (no NeXTmail, please) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contains freshness saver packet. DO NOT EAT.
From: horner@foxtrot.af1.odu.edu (-J) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 27 Jun 1997 02:49:12 GMT Organization: Old Dominion University WebMasters Message-ID: <5ov9n8$3k8@aruba.odu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971521070001@199.166.204.230> In article <maury-2606971521070001@199.166.204.230>, Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> wrote: >In article <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net>, abuse@127.0.0.1 wrote: > >> Notice that red line on the edge of the ribbon? > > No, because there isn't one. Yes there is, look again. I've worked on PC for years and have *never* seen one without. -J -- John D. Horner horner@foxtrot.af1.odu.edu ODU WebMasters foxtrot.af1.odu.edu/~horner/ www.odu.edu
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 28 Jun 1997 14:40:26 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p40ca$46h@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> gupta@kcopsrm.tm.tta.moc-mirror after @ writes: >nate <nhughes@idir.net> wrote: >> >>>What misinformation? PC's are crap. I know this from direct >>>personal experience, which includes developing hardware and >>>software for the PC, from 1981 to 1984, and from subsequently working >>>on many vastly better systems. >> >>You will make a fine mac advocate. You have the logic, How does it >>go? Uh, I built PC's back in 1984 and couldn't figure them out so >>they must really suck in 97. You deserve a mac. >Umm, I believe he also wrote that he returned to PCs in the 90s >and found no improvements in architecture at all from 1984. I also kept up with what the PC world was doing throughout the 80's, althought I refused to base any of my projects on an unstable platform after 1984. Also, just to set a few of you PC victims straight: I am *not* a mac advocate. When there is something better than what I'm using, I will jump ship in a heartbeat. I freely admit that NeXTSTEP sucks, too. NeXTSTEP is much better than WIndows or the current Macintosh OS, but that's almost damning by faint praise. -jcr
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:06:39 -0400 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-2806971806390001@198.133.37.101> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971521070001@199.166.204.230> <5ov9n8$3k8@aruba.odu.edu> <5p2od8$18a@marvin.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de> In article <5p2od8$18a@marvin.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de>, Bastian Schlueter <Bastian.Schlueter@no.spam> wrote: > I've seen lots of them. And i've even seen drives where pin1 was not > marked ... As it turns out the NEC is also unlabeled for "Pin 1", it instead has a triangle on that end. I do not know if this is documented, but the NEC tech people told me what it meant. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:04:24 -0400 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-2806971804240001@198.133.37.101> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971521070001@199.166.204.230> <5ov9n8$3k8@aruba.odu.edu> In article <5ov9n8$3k8@aruba.odu.edu>, horner@foxtrot.af1.odu.edu (-J) wrote: > Yes there is, look again. I've worked on PC for years and have *never* seen > one without. Do you need a photograph before you'll believe me? The machine in question has two busses, one of them (the secondary) has such a stripe, the primary does not. Nor does this excuse NEC and Western Digital for selecting connectors that allow one to plug the cable in upside down. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:02:16 -0400 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-2806971802160001@198.133.37.101> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <5oshhg$t3q@winter.erols.com> <maury-2606971425040001@199.166.204.230> <33B4E674.1726@bit.csc.lsu.edu> In article <33B4E674.1726@bit.csc.lsu.edu>, zachary@premier.net wrote: > And you shouldn't ask for advice if you are going to belittle the > people who offer it. Please, the person in question's "advice" was that it was my fault and not the PC's - it was I that was being "belittled". The punch line to this story is that just for kicks I tried the install on my NT box that I use as a production machine. The install worked perfectly the first time, doing exactly what I was doing on the other two machines. More annoying was the fact that all three machines are from the same supplier. > (which you should know since master devices general behave better on > the terminal end of the ribbon connector) This does not appear to be true, after trying all possible combinations I have found no obvious speed difference on different cable positions. More to the point, the original post suggested placing the drives on different busses, something that all of the docs suggest can't be done (as it turns out, it works fine). > try turning the ribbon cable around? I bet not. Did you try to > relocate the HD so that the cable would fit? I wouldn't bet on it. Both. Maury
From: hanske@ratatosk.ratatosk.gol.com (Hans Shimizu Karlsson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Howto use a NeXT .PS file on my MAC Date: 28 Jun 1997 23:00:08 GMT Organization: Global OnLine Japan Message-ID: <5p451o$pd0$1@godzilla.gol.com> References: <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> Cc: tj@oro.net In <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> Thomas Ferreira wrote: > I would like to make a .PS file on my NeXT Computer and somehow load it on > my PowerMac and then send this file to my Postscript 600DPI Mac printer. I am just working on the same thing. CAPer should let you transfer the file to you Mac over AppleTalk. On the Mac side, there is something called EPS2PICT, if I remember correctly, which is needed to translate the PostScript into a viewable/editable format on the Mac. GraphicConverter uses this translator for opening .ps files. I haven't registered my version yet, so I don't know how well it works. The PICT is supposed to retain the vector information, but I seem to remember that there are some limitations. Anyway, without DiplayPostScript in Mac OS there doesn't seem to be much point in bringing over the files for the sake of editing on the Mac, does it? > > Tom > ______________________________________________________________________________ Hans Karlsson hanske@ratatosk.com www@ratatosk.com info@ratatosk.com
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: reowuroiwe@OA;IUREOWU.COM Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5p49en$3rt$3137@news.internetmci.com> Control: cancel <5p49en$3rt$3137@news.internetmci.com> Date: 29 Jun 1997 00:17:14 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5p49en$3rt$3137@news.internetmci.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: gupta@kcopsrm.tm.tta.moc-mirror after @ Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 28 Jun 1997 12:46:35 GMT Organization: IMEMYSELF Sender: Arun Gupta Message-ID: <5p313b$99v@newsb.netnews.att.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p13bo$qv@winter.erols.com> <5p1ibh$2ih@idiom.com> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> Originator: gupta@tlctest William Lowe <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> wrote: > >And I'm saying that you are wrong, that the majority of us PC users aren't >victims. But you won't listen, you've got your Mac and you're doing your >part for the Mac cause. Who give a damn for the truth? Well, you can tell >yourself all the PC horror stories you want, won't make any difference. Well, where I work, we have tons of PCs. The truth about PC hardware is well known here. I'm saying that you are wrong, and your trouble-free experience is untypical. -arun gupta
From: ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:28:55 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Message-ID: <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:23:42 -0400, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: > I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside >down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! .. The same dude who did the Apple 25 pin serial, ah, da, I mean SCSI connector. .. .. > Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work >(after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the >jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 >minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... .. You could read the manual (RTFM). You probably should have noticed there are 100 of 1000s of people who don't have this problem. It could be you're doing something wrong. .. ..
From: John Zachary <zachary@bit.csc.lsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 04:53:40 -0500 Organization: LSU Robotics Research Laboratory Message-ID: <33B630A4.168C@bit.csc.lsu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <maury-2506972037000001@199.166.204.230> <33b2267e.22927874@news.bway.net> <maury-2606971521070001@199.166.204.230> <5ov9n8$3k8@aruba.odu.edu> <maury-2806971804240001@198.133.37.101> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz wrote: > > In article <5ov9n8$3k8@aruba.odu.edu>, horner@foxtrot.af1.odu.edu (-J) wrote: > > > Yes there is, look again. I've worked on PC for years and have *never* seen > > one without. > > Do you need a photograph before you'll believe me? The machine in > question has two busses, one of them (the secondary) has such a stripe, > the primary does not. Nor does this excuse NEC and Western Digital for > selecting connectors that allow one to plug the cable in upside down. > > Maury To Maury's defense, I have an IDE ribbon cable sitting right here with (a) no red stripe or other indicator for pin 1, and (b) no pin block to allow proper alignment. I dunno. Maybe the CDROM drive is the problem or you have something configured wrong that is so simple that you just can't see it (hey, everyone has done this so don't feel bad). Put it all down for a week, go to a happy place, and come back and see if there is some new insight. This usually helps and Prelude ain't going anywhere. If you decide to trash it, I'll take it. John
From: ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:39:17 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Message-ID: <33b5d7b5.21588883@news.sover.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> On 28 Jun 1997 16:11:50 GMT, gupta@kcopsrm.tm.tta.moc-mirror after @ wrote: >nate <nhughes@idir.net> wrote: >> >>>What misinformation? PC's are crap. I know this from direct >>>personal experience, which includes developing hardware and >>>software for the PC, from 1981 to 1984, and from subsequently working >>>on many vastly better systems. .. Well, I've the same experience with hardware and software. The PC platform seems fine for 10 of 1000s of developers. What's your problem with it... PCs are crap doesn't mean much... actually anything. .. .. >>You will make a fine mac advocate. You have the logic, How does it >>go? Uh, I built PC's back in 1984 and couldn't figure them out so >>they must really suck in 97. You deserve a mac. .. .. >Umm, I believe he also wrote that he returned to PCs in the 90s >and found no improvements in architecture at all from 1984. .. He didn't look very hard. .. ..
From: Steve Dekorte <dekorte@slip.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: NeXT Newbie Questions Date: 29 Jun 1997 03:36:55 GMT Organization: Slip.Net (http://www.slip.net) Message-ID: <5p4l8n$ine$2@owl.slip.net> References: <erich-2606972251150001@ppp-207-105-88-12.snrf01.pacbell.net> In comp.sys.next.programmer Eric Harley <erich@powerwareintl.com> wrote: > 1) If I develop a program under OpenStep for Mach on Intel, can I run that > application on Windows NT/95 without installing OpenStep on the Windows > machine? No. > 2) Does anybody know about an OpenStep API for the Macintosh? I dont mean > Rhapsody. (I'm assuming you mean MacOS) Someone may be working on GNUstep for Mac. There was also something in Macweek about an OpenStep for MacOS. > 3) Will OpenStep 4.2 run on a Turbo Slab? Yes. -- Steve Dekorte - OpenStep consultant - San Francisco
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: nobody@gateway.aoc.gov Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.northstar,comp.sys.novell,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.oric,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen Subject: cmsg cancel <33b58ee2.3402054@192.136.24.2> Control: cancel <33b58ee2.3402054@192.136.24.2> Date: 29 Jun 1997 03:05:25 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.33b58ee2.3402054@192.136.24.2> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: ;LK;L@';L'LHN.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5p3vt1$i15$1@usenet89.supernews.com> Control: cancel <5p3vt1$i15$1@usenet89.supernews.com> Date: 29 Jun 1997 00:39:25 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5p3vt1$i15$1@usenet89.supernews.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: ckoller@worldnet.att.net (Craig Koller) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 21:07:19 -0700 Organization: MediActive Message-ID: <ckoller-2806972107190001@4.san-francisco-004.ca.dial-access.att.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net> In article <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net>, ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:23:42 -0400, maury@softarc.com (Maury > Markowitz) wrote: > > > I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside > >down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! > .. > The same dude who did the Apple 25 pin serial, ah, da, I mean SCSI > connector. Yup, but there's this big ol' SCSI ICON printed on the back of the computer. It takes a lot of ignorance to plug a parallel printer into a Mac SCSI port. I remember when our true blue IBM MIS guy did exactly that to a Mac SE and an HP Laserjet back in '89. > .. > .. > > Well after figuring that out I'm ready to try again. It doesn't work > >(after ID'ing the drives fine, it can't talk to them). Ok, let's move the > >jumpers and see what happens. Same thing, but this time it takes 10 > >minutes to get there. Ok, one last try on the other IDE cable.... > .. > You could read the manual (RTFM). You probably should have noticed > there are 100 of 1000s of people who don't have this problem. It could > be you're doing something wrong. > .. > .. Hehe. The mantra that Wintel wants you all to recite ad infinitum, ad nauseum: "*You* did something wrong." As far as I'm concerned SCSI and IDE are both gnarled old technologies that should go away ASAP (come Firewire. Come soon). Seeing that Mac uses both, and so does the PC (although PC SCSI adds an exciting new layer of treachery), I consider this subject to be a wash...
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <10436866952022@digifix.com> Date: 29 Jun 1997 03:56:52 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <1452867556825@digifix.com> Topics include: Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites NeXTanswers Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP World Wide Web Sites ============================================ The following sites are a sample of the OpenStep related WWW sites available. A comprehensive list is available on Stepwise. Stepwise OpenStep/Rhapsody Information Server http://www.stepwise.com Stepwise has been serving the OpenStep/NEXTSTEP community since March 1993. Some of the many resources on the site include: OpenStep Third Party Software guide, Developer Directory, Mailing List information, extensive listing of FTP and WWW sites related to OpenStep and NEXTSTEP, OpenStep related Frequently Asked Questions. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. NeXT Software Archives @ Peak.org http://www.peak.org/next http://www.peak.org/openstep PEAK is the premier NeXTStep/OpenStep FTP site in North America. This is the World Wide Web interace to the FTP site. Apple Enterprise Software Group (formerly NeXT Computer, Inc.) http://www.next.com Here is where you'll find the NeXTanswers archive, with information on OpenStep installation, drivers and software patches. Apple Computer's 'Prelude to Rhapsody' Self Support Site http://devworld.apple.com/dev/prelude.html This site has been constructed to help you help yourself to learn as much as possible about the foundation for Rhapsody, today's OPENSTEP. The site provides an informal collection of pointers, references, and starting points for developers who are using the Prelude to Rhapsody bundle, distributed at this year's Worldwide Developer Conference. OpenStep/NEXTSTEP/Rhapsody Related Usenet Newsgroups ==================================================== COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. COMP.SYS.NEXT.ANNOUNCE Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.BUGS A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT-specific groups as well. COMP.SYS.NEXT.HARDWARE Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MARKETPLACE NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! COMP.SYS.NEXT.PROGRAMMER Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SOFTWARE This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. COMP.SYS.NEXT.SYSADMIN Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. ** RELATED NEWSGROUPS ** COMP.SOFT-SYS.NEXTSTEP Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. COMP.LANG.OBJECTIVE-C Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. COMP.OBJECT Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com Major OpenStep/NEXTSTEP FTP sites ================================= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.peanuts.org: (Peanuts) Located in Germany. Comprehensive archive site. Very well maintained. ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/comp/next NeGeN/NiNe (NEXTSTEP Gebruikers Nederland/NeXTSTEP in the Netherlands) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: gupta@kcopsrm.tm.tta.moc-mirror after @ Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 28 Jun 1997 16:11:50 GMT Organization: IMEMYSELF Sender: Arun Gupta Message-ID: <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> Originator: gupta@tlctest nate <nhughes@idir.net> wrote: > >>What misinformation? PC's are crap. I know this from direct >>personal experience, which includes developing hardware and >>software for the PC, from 1981 to 1984, and from subsequently working >>on many vastly better systems. > >You will make a fine mac advocate. You have the logic, How does it >go? Uh, I built PC's back in 1984 and couldn't figure them out so >they must really suck in 97. You deserve a mac. Umm, I believe he also wrote that he returned to PCs in the 90s and found no improvements in architecture at all from 1984. -arun gupta
From: "Eric M. Aldrich I" <ealdrich@wavequest.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Detailed black hardware specs Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 03:36:09 +0000 Organization: Wavequest Inc. Message-ID: <33B5D820.B3A@wavequest.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have or know where to find detailed hardware specs for the various configurations of black (Motorola) NeXT hardware? I'm looking for things such as serial port speeds, SCSI specs, NeXTbus speeds -- all the stuff that isn't in the FAQ. Post or email is fine. Any applicable info appreciated. Eric
From: "Joacim Melin" <joacim@mbox301.swipnet.se> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Booting NeXTSTEP v3.3 (Intel) with OS/2's Bootmanager? Date: 29 Jun 1997 11:36:35 GMT Organization: A customer of Tele2 Message-ID: <01b991e6$d6613640$13b8f482@nostromo.melin.se> Cache-Post-Path: mn8!s-226072@dialup184-1-19.swipnet.se Hi all . I'm trying to install NeXTstep v3.3 on an Pentium 133Mhz. I can't install it on the first harddrive so I got me a second SCSI hdd and want to install it there. NeXTstep doesn't seem to have the ability to boot from a second harddrive, so I thought I could use OS/2's bootmanager, but that didn't work either. Any hints on this issue ? Please reply via email. Thanks, Joacim Melin, Stockholm Sweden.
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 29 Jun 1997 05:10:50 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p5jca$mfb@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> <33b5d7b5.21588883@news.sover.net> ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) writes: [munch] >Well, I've the same experience with hardware and software. The PC >platform seems fine for 10 of 1000s of developers. What's your problem >with it... And McDonalds' is fine for the Billions Served(tm). Re-stating that there are a bunch of PCs, and a bunch of tortured engineers sweating blood to work around the mistakes in the architecture, doesn't rebut my criticism of the PC platform at all. > PCs are crap doesn't mean much... actually anything. Okay, how about "PC's were designed by assholes and marketing dinks who couldn't be bothered to even consider the impact of their cost-cutting decisions on future users of their half-assed knock-off of an Apple II." >>>You will make a fine mac advocate. You have the logic, How does it >>>go? Uh, I built PC's back in 1984 and couldn't figure them out so >>>they must really suck in 97. You deserve a mac. >.. >>Umm, I believe he also wrote that he returned to PCs in the 90s >>and found no improvements in architecture at all from 1984. >.. >He didn't look very hard. Oh, I looked hard all right. I looked at the damn things every time a new fad came down the pike claiming to fix the brain damage that IBM saddled you all with. Let's look at the scoreboard, shall we? ISA bus: Memory usage, and interrupt numbers for each board are determined by the board, not by the slot. Set the jumpers wrong, and two boards try to respond to the same addresses. (contrast to the Apple II bus, where the addresses available to a board are determined by the number of the slot. It is not *physically* possible to have address conflicts in the Apple II bus.) EISA Bus: Same brain damage as above, but the data path is expanded to 16 bits. VLB: "The bus is fucked, so we'll just give you the direct access to the CPU pins, pretty much." The problem with this approach is, now you have to improvise a bus again, because there's no real bus arbitration. (What address do I answer? I'll read my DIP switches!) Expanded Memory: Lotus, Intel and Microsoft, realizing that the 640K memory limit was a Real Big Problem, decide to install a bank-switching scheme, mapping some number of megs of real RAM into a window of a few K of the physical memory map. Okay for data, as long as you didn't try to allocate any single block bigger than the page size (64K), which neatly conicides with the brain-damaged segmented memory architecture of Intel's excrebale excuse for CPU, but it's a *real* bitch to try to run code out of a bank-switched memory board. Overlay Linkers (e.g. P/Link): Your code doesn't fit in 640K? Okay, just figure out which parts need to be in RAM at the same time, and when you call from an overlay into another overlay, we'll just swap in the code you're calling, and swap it back out when you return from the called routine. This is the kind of head-standing you have to do, because you have a 640K memory limit, because some ASSHOLE at IBM didn't think about expansion at all, and provide a pointer in the low end of the RAM to tell you where to look for the video buffer. No, he HARD WIRED it in! I had intended to keep this discussion in the hardware realm, but Linkers and loaders are *real* close to the metal. If I get into discussing DOS and Windows, I'm going really start on a rant. I've got dozens of these, but this post is long enough.. -jcr
From: nhughes@idir.net (nate) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 14:50:06 GMT Organization: Internet Direct Communications Message-ID: <33b7731d.40115733@nntp.idir.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> <33b5d7b5.21588883@news.sover.net> <5p5jca$mfb@idiom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 29 Jun 1997 05:10:50 -0700, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) decided he/she should say: >ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) writes: > <snip> >>.. >>He didn't look very hard. > >Oh, I looked hard all right. I looked at the damn things every >time a new fad came down the pike claiming to fix the brain damage >that IBM saddled you all with. Let's look at the scoreboard, shall >we? > >ISA bus: > >Memory usage, and interrupt numbers for each board are determined >by the board, not by the slot. Set the jumpers wrong, and two >boards try to respond to the same addresses. (contrast to the Apple >II bus, where the addresses available to a board are determined by >the number of the slot. It is not *physically* possible to have >address conflicts in the Apple II bus.) OK, I am not a compsci major or a programmer, but I do know how to find available IRQs and set the jumpers properly. It is not that hard. > >EISA Bus: > >Same brain damage as above, but the data path is expanded to 16 >bits. Same solution as above. > >VLB: > >"The bus is fucked, so we'll just give you the direct access to >the CPU pins, pretty much." The problem with this approach is, >now you have to improvise a bus again, because there's no real bus >arbitration. (What address do I answer? I'll read my DIP switches!) VLB is pretty much history. BTW, isnt PCI standard on PC's today? Have you ever used a PCI PC or is that bus too new for you? > >Expanded Memory: > >Lotus, Intel and Microsoft, realizing that the 640K memory limit >was a Real Big Problem, decide to install a bank-switching scheme, >mapping some number of megs of real RAM into a window of a few K >of the physical memory map. How many apps are people running today that requires expanded memory? Your experience is back in 84 isnt it? > >Okay for data, as long as you didn't try to allocate any single >block bigger than the page size (64K), which neatly conicides with >the brain-damaged segmented memory architecture of Intel's excrebale >excuse for CPU, but it's a *real* bitch to try to run code out of >a bank-switched memory board. Im no programmer, but It seems like lots of programmers can do whatever it is you find so hard. > >Overlay Linkers (e.g. P/Link): > >Your code doesn't fit in 640K? Okay, just figure out which parts >need to be in RAM at the same time, and when you call from an >overlay into another overlay, we'll just swap in the code you're >calling, and swap it back out when you return from the called >routine. > >This is the kind of head-standing you have to do, because you have >a 640K memory limit, because some ASSHOLE at IBM didn't think about >expansion at all, and provide a pointer in the low end of the RAM >to tell you where to look for the video buffer. No, he HARD WIRED >it in! > >I had intended to keep this discussion in the hardware realm, but >Linkers and loaders are *real* close to the metal. If I get into >discussing DOS and Windows, I'm going really start on a rant. > >I've got dozens of these, but this post is long enough.. I'm an end user so most of the programming stuff is out of my league. I'm just glad there are people with the talent to do what you have trouble doing. Nate
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 10:13:11 -0400 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-2906971013110001@198.133.37.103> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net> In article <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net>, ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > The same dude who did the Apple 25 pin serial, ah, da, I mean SCSI > connector. It's a D-connector and only goes in one way. > You could read the manual (RTFM). Yes, thank you for your advice. > You probably should have noticed > there are 100 of 1000s of people who don't have this problem. It could > be you're doing something wrong. It is not. Maury
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 28 Jun 1997 04:55:00 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <5ou04q$s40@winter.erols.com> <5p0alb$271@idiom.com> <5p13bo$qv@winter.erols.com> <5p1ibh$2ih@idiom.com> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> writes: >And I'm saying that you are wrong, that the majority of us PC users aren't >victims. Don't feel ashamed, William. Many abuse victims have a hard time getting over their attachement to their abusers. Admitting that you have a problem is the first step in recovery. Good luck. >But you won't listen, you've got your Mac and you're doing your >part for the Mac cause. Hold it right there, sport. Who said I was mac advocate? FYI: I became a Mac user in 1984, I remained one until 1989, and when I saw something better than what I had, I switched. Get that? I abandoned the Mac in 1989, when I first saw something better. I became a NeXT user in '89, and I've refused to regress. When something better than NeXTSTEP comes along (which Rhapsody may prove to be), I will switch again, and yet again when something better than that shows up. >Who give a damn for the truth? The truth is, you settle for far too little. What I find apalling about PC's is how little they've improved since I first abandoned them in 1984. PC's have layered one half-assed hack on top of another to try to address their fundamental design flaws, and they still suck. >Well, you can tell yourself all the PC horror stories you want, >won't make any difference. I've had enough of trying change some >of the misinformation spread about PCs. What misinformation? PC's are crap. I know this from direct personal experience, which includes developing hardware and software for the PC, from 1981 to 1984, and from subsequently working on many vastly better systems. Hell, just look at the PC's contemporaries from 1982! The S-100 buss had 24 bit addressing, the VME Bus was physically incapable of having an interrupt conflict, as was the Apple II bus, for crying out loud. Why does the PC still have interrupt conflicts? PC's weren't even up to the engineering standards of the day they first shipped, and they've consistently floundered around trying to play catch-up ever since. >Just think about this, if Apple wins and everyone buys one of their >computers or one of their clones, who's left out there to hate? I don't hate PC users, I pity you. -jcr
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: <remove@freemail.nll> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5p7g1q$945$2877@cadmium.aware.nl> Control: cancel <5p7g1q$945$2877@cadmium.aware.nl> Date: 30 Jun 1997 06:18:39 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.5p7g1q$945$2877@cadmium.aware.nl> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: 30 Jun 1997 01:49:18 -0700 Organization: Idiom Communications Message-ID: <5p7rue$lff@idiom.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> <33b5d7b5.21588883@news.sover.net> <5p5jca$mfb@idiom.com> <33b727fc.17481717@news.sover.net> ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) writes: ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) writes: >[munch] >>cost-cutting decisions on future users of their half-assed knock-off >>of an Apple II." >.. >Which is actually a half-assed knock-off of the S-100 design. Let's >give credit where due. No, the Apple II bus was an improvement over the Altair bus. (I don't call it S-100, because I respect Ed Roberts' prerogative of naming his own invention.) It was superior in that it can't have address conflicts. Woz *looked* at the Altair bus, and *improved* upon it. He advanced the state of the art. IBM caused a regression. >It 's also not physically possible to do lots of things with the Apple >II bus which explains why it's a half-assed knock-off. I'm calling you on this one: What were you able to do with the Altair bus that you couldn't do in the Apple II? As for it being a knock-off of the Altair, I disagree. It's a bus designed to serve as the backplane of a 6502-based machine, and it did a fine job of that. [munch again] >Look, I agree that the PC bus and architecture are far from perfect >but they are workable. And with less pain than you experience. I don't experience any pain from this, because I don't use the damn things. They have been examined and found inadequate for my purposes. Horse-drawn carriages are workable. If you're satisfied with the sad state of Intel hardware today, then you can save a lot of money, by trading it off for your time. My time's worth more than that. >We could also discuss the fact that it's obvious that analog people >weren't involved PC design. Funny you should bring that up: The four machines that failed, in my first order of five IBM PC's all had power supply problems. >But, hey, the world isn't perfect and that's that. No, the world sure isn't perfect, and that's why I choose the best of my available alternatives. Intel boxes ain't it! -jcr
From: Paul Seelig <seelig@goofy.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Prolog for NeXt Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:18:41 +0200 Organization: Johannes Gutenberg-Universitaet Mainz, Germany Message-ID: <33B3CB70.BD9@goofy.zdv.uni-mainz.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody! Is there a good Prolog compiler available for NeXt? Cheers, P. *8^)
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: ap28@ap28.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <33b4efd0.0@news.genesisnetwork.net> Control: cancel <33b4efd0.0@news.genesisnetwork.net> Date: 30 Jun 1997 09:09:05 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.33b4efd0.0@news.genesisnetwork.net> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: "William Lowe" <wlowe@spamlesserols.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:43:01 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <5p8glm$ccn@winter.erols.com> References: <5p6pae$7q4@idiom.com><5p79me$s3r@ultranews.duc.auburn.edu> <onhvcKS00iV_01urA0@andrew.cmu.edu> Charles William Swiger wrote in article ... :Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 30-Jun-97 Re: I give up, :Prelude is i.. by James C. Stutts@eng.aubu :> You, of course, do realize we haven't had a 640K limit for quite some time. : :Odd thing: type 'mem' in a "MS-DOS Command Prompt" window, and take a :look at the section on conventional memory. : What makes you think that programs today run in real mode, or Virtual-86 mode, which is the only place where conventional memory even matters? Today's programs run in protected mode, which only sees flat memory. Programs like Win95 and WinNT and OS/2, not to mention all those DOS games people still play, like Quake and Doom and Duke Nukem. Funny, isn't it? :Odd thing #2: why is the bottom 1MB of memory on a 1997 Intel machine :with 64 MB of RAM still have the VGA video framebuffer located in the :way at 640K, along with all of the other detrius of the Intel legacy :(things like a 64K page frame for doing EMS, chunks around C000 and F000 :used for system ROM, and so forth)? Read above. Protected mode also eliminates any problems with that segmented memory bit. Memory is remaped around the framebuffer exception. You're living in the past if you think that someone who buys a computer with Win95 will ever have any problems due to segmented memory. "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - Doctor, GHOST LIGHT Remove "spamless" from my address to reply by e-mail
From: davewang@wam.umd.edu.@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 30 Jun 1997 15:27:01 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Message-ID: <5p8j85$4rt$1@hecate.umd.edu> John Bauer (drifterusa@macconnect.com) wrote: : David T. Wang wrote: : > I will readily admit that at times it takes some expertise to get a large : > system of PC's going strong. Funny thing is that I've talked to a bunch : > of "sysadmins" that barely know a serial port from a parallel port. : If companies are so desperate to hire tech support staff that they'll take : people who do not know anything about the machines they are supposed to : support, doesn't it make sense to buy equipment that is easier to work : with in the first place? Maybe an excess of newbies in tech support is : the reason behind Gartner's findings of lower Mac support costs. Just a : thought. I think that the move is toward a powerful departmental server and clients. a fat server, fat client kind of thing, and it's been pretty much decided that the server will be an NT box, and once that's decided, it makes more sense to go with some sort of Windows client. Apple had nothing to compete in the server space, and I think that Amelio realized that, and went for NeXTStep instead of BeOS. (ofcourse there are plenty of people trying to change the Fat-server fat Client world, because that means windows everywhere, but it remains to see if anything else can compete successfully.) : John Bauer
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:40:21 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <AnhvR5K00iV_01uqg0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net> <ckoller-2806972107190001@4.san-francisco-004.ca.dial-access.att.net> <33b728b9.17671059@news.sover.net> In-Reply-To: <33b728b9.17671059@news.sover.net> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 30-Jun-97 Re: I give up, Prelude is i.. by Lance Togar@msn.com > chance, people do it all the time. I remember being called out to a > local newspaper where the manager had plugged the *same* external SCSI > drive into *two* Macs. He figured they could share it. Very logical > when you think about it. Of course it is. The SCSI standard covers situations where there are multiple SCSI controllers (or "host adaptors" to you PeeCee people). > However, it *didn't* work. That's not surprising-- very few SCSI controllers properly arbitrate the bus with other controllers since it's more expesnive to design them to do it correctly, but there are some that do. > BTW, most IDE cables are keyed and will only fit one way. "most" means "more than 50%", and my experience has been that your claim is false. The majority of IDE cables I've seen are not keyed and will fit both ways. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:52:22 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <onhvcKS00iV_01urA0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <5p6pae$7q4@idiom.com> <5p79me$s3r@ultranews.duc.auburn.edu> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.advocacy: 30-Jun-97 Re: I give up, Prelude is i.. by James C. Stutts@eng.aubu > You, of course, do realize we haven't had a 640K limit for quite some time. Odd thing: type 'mem' in a "MS-DOS Command Prompt" window, and take a look at the section on conventional memory. Odd thing #2: why is the bottom 1MB of memory on a 1997 Intel machine with 64 MB of RAM still have the VGA video framebuffer located in the way at 640K, along with all of the other detrius of the Intel legacy (things like a 64K page frame for doing EMS, chunks around C000 and F000 used for system ROM, and so forth)? > Also, most ISA configurations may be handled with the system's BIOS, > which is usually point and click these days. "Most" != "all". I've seen so-called plug-n-play BIOS' misconfigure themselves, and it's a royal pain to undo or move some non plug-n-play to another IRQ/DMA channel in order to avoid a conflict. No doubt some apologist will try to defend the above situation, too. > PCI is much simpler. After roughly 17 years and a nearly endless list of terrible bus standards, the Intel world finally talked to and looked at the rest of the industry, and managed to agree to something reasonable. > Interestingly enough, Sun will be using PCI slots soon, as SGI does now. > More of that "crappy" PC tech, huh? Why, no-- PCI isn't Intel/PeeCee technology; go read your history on who was involved in creating the PCI architecture. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 30 Jun 1997 15:15:16 GMT Organization: University at Buffalo Message-ID: <5p8ii4$7o1@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <datamagik-2606971929520001@tcnet01-43.austin.texas.net> NNTP-Posting-User: scholl Jay Riley (datamagik@usa.net) wrote: : In article <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu>, : scholl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Edward P Scholl) wrote: : >well, as in everything you buy, there is a difference between inexpensive : >cheap and poor quality cheap when it comes to computers. you just : >shouldn't buy the poor quality stuff. : Okay so you're saying wintel PCs are cheaper than Mac PCs, but you well, i didn't say that, but... they *CAN* be, but aren't neccesarily... : shouldn't buy cheap PCs or (functional) Macs? No, wait you're saying that : you CAN use cheap stuff if you have expertise to distinguish it from cheap : stuff that doesn't work correctly. bingo on the "if you can "distinguish it from cheap stuff that doesn't work correctly." but you don't exactly need expertise to do it. just gotta know how to read. do a little research. learn something. : Why not buy a Mac and save yourself the headaches? you could do that too. or buy a quality clone. i was merely stating when you are buying inexpensive stuff, there is a difference between cheap crap and inexpensive, but well built stuff. : I was FURIOUS at Apple Computer when they let their quality slide down to : what I'd expect from a top shelf wintel maker. I don't know how you people : can STAND it, I really don't. well, both apple and top shelf wintel makers don't generally make their own hardware. rather they buy from other manufacturers. and the top shelf wintel makers tend to use pretty decent parts (generally). what's apple using now that's worse than they used to use? -ed
From: mitchell.allen@worldnet.att.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Howto use a NeXT .PS file on my MAC Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 09:36:35 -0400 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <mitchell.allen-3006970936360001@236.detroit-005.mi.dial-access.att.net> References: <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> <5p451o$pd0$1@godzilla.gol.com> In article <5p451o$pd0$1@godzilla.gol.com>, hanske@ratatosk.ratatosk.gol.com (Hans Shimizu Karlsson) wrote: > In <tj-2706971155430001@i489.oro.net> Thomas Ferreira wrote: > > > I would like to make a .PS file on my NeXT Computer and somehow load it on > > my PowerMac and then send this file to my Postscript 600DPI Mac printer. > > I am just working on the same thing. CAPer should let you transfer the file > to > you Mac over AppleTalk. On the Mac side, there is something called > EPS2PICT, if I remember correctly, which is needed to translate the > PostScript into a viewable/editable format on the Mac. GraphicConverter > uses this translator for opening .ps files. > > I haven't registered my version yet, so I don't know how well > it works. > > The PICT is supposed to retain the > vector information, but I seem to remember that there are some limitations. > > Anyway, without DiplayPostScript in Mac OS there doesn't seem to be > much point in bringing over the files for the sake of editing on the Mac, > does it? > You could just put it on a Mac formatted floppy and open it on the Mac in Illustrator, if you have it. That works. Mitch
From: alex@WebIS.net (Alex Kac) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:21:02 -0600 Organization: Web Information Solutions---Interactive and database web design studio Message-ID: <alex-3006971121020001@192.168.1.3> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net> <ckoller-2806972107190001@4.san-francisco-004.ca.dial-access.att.net> In article <ckoller-2806972107190001@4.san-francisco-004.ca.dial-access.att.net>, ckoller@worldnet.att.net (Craig Koller) wrote: : In article <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net>, ltogar@msn.com (Lance : Togar) wrote: : : > On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:23:42 -0400, maury@softarc.com (Maury : > Markowitz) wrote: : > : > > I found the facinating fact that IDE cables can be plugged in upside : > >down! Who the HELL invented this CRAP?!?! : > .. : > The same dude who did the Apple 25 pin serial, ah, da, I mean SCSI : > connector. : : Yup, but there's this big ol' SCSI ICON printed on the back of the : computer. It takes a lot of ignorance to plug a parallel printer into a : Mac SCSI port. I remember when our true blue IBM MIS guy did exactly that : to a Mac SE and an HP Laserjet back in '89. Well......actually, on the Amiga 3000, which used a Centronics Parallel Port (same plug as SCSI), the parallel port and the SCSI port were stacked. +-------------------+ | ----p | | ----s | +-------------------+ A few times when I was trying to plug the printer in, I accidentally plugged it into the SCSI port. The Amiga refused to start. Then, when I joined Apple in 1994, one of the first questions during my interview was an example of a caller who had a Brother printer and he hooked it up to his Mac and it refused to print. Well, it took a few seconds to figure out that he had a Centronics printer and hooked it up to the Mac's SCSI port. So...I think that although on Mac's, the SCSI port IS hard to mix up, on PCs, Amigas, etc...it is not. -- Web Information Solutions develops interactive and database driven websites. For more information, go to <http://www.WebIS.net>
From: michael@rumah.pc.my (Michael Olan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Prolog for NeXTStation? Date: 30 Jun 1997 12:02:34 GMT Organization: Personal Message-ID: <5p878q$2d8@rumah.pc.my> References: <5p60d9$30k$3@news2.nctu.edu.tw> There's sbprolog which is free, but command line only. I've had it on my slab just about forever, so I don't remember where it came from. I'm sure Archie should be able to find it, or I could email it if someone is interested. Mike --- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Michael Olan Email: michael@rumah.pc.my (NeXT Mail OK) Senior Lecturer - Computer Science michael@ppp.itm.my American Degree Program Fax: 6-03-5482329 Institut Teknologi MARA Section 17, Shah Alam, Malaysia PGP Key available ---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ?digman?@neosoft.com (Larry Campbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:43:52 -0500 Organization: NeoSoft, Inc. Message-ID: <?digman?-3006971343520001@digital-00-31.hou.neoworld.net> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5os3b2$4l@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <5os5pe$fom$1@news.xmission.com> <5os9ra$ebu@winter.erols.com> <5ota5r$nqr@idiom.com> <maury-2606971524200001@199.166.204.230> <5ouhd9$pc5@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu> <datamagik-2606971929520001@tcnet01-43.austin.texas.net> <33b71cdd.14635064@news.sover.net> > .. > So, let me guess... you probably think the older "high quality" Macs > where hand made at a troll shop in upstate New York. Actually, they were manufactured in Fremont, California. The fact is, since Apple doesn't manufacture any components, it's always purchased parts from the very same sources as everyone else. False. Many components are Apple-designed ASICs, and Apple spec'ed components (like the Sony SuperDrive) that were manufactured exclusively by Apple or for Apple by OEMs adhering to Apple specifications. Really wasn't until a couple of years ago that Apple started using the cheaper industry- standard parts in order to more effectively compete with the Wintel market in terms of pricing and availability. Apple's assembly quality has ranged from not-so-hot to above average. Absolutely not true. Apple's quality is world renowned and they have garnered top awards world-wide, among them the Malcolm Baldridge Award, J.D. Power, etc. It's easy to find Intel PCs that are built better than anything Apple has to offer. I wish you would tell me where,seeing as I have worked at both Compaq and Dell, both recognized as industry leaders, and am well-acquainted with their commitment to quality, and have found them to rival, but not surpass Apple, in terms of overall quality. It's easy because there is so many choices and so much competition. Competition doesn't ensure quality, quite the opposite. In the rush to bring products to market to effectively compete, I have witnessed shorter beta-test cycles,relaxed quality controls, and scaled-back commitments to supporting those products once they've been deployed. I'm all for choice,however,although I'm not quite following you on how choice relates to inherent quality.
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:26:20 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-3006971426200001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> <33b5d7b5.21588883@news.sover.net> <5p5jca$mfb@idiom.com> <33b7731d.40115733@nntp.idir.net> In article <33b7731d.40115733@nntp.idir.net>, nhughes@idir.net (nate) wrote: > OK, I am not a compsci major or a programmer, but I do know how to > find available IRQs and set the jumpers properly. It is not that > hard. You apparently aren't an English major either, because you completely missed his point. At the time the PC "standard" was being put down by IBM, every other bus in the world was more advanced. IBM took a step *backwards* and even in three attempts since to fix it with somewhat to totally incompatible busses, it didn't get fixed until PCI cam along FIFTEEN YEARS later! Maury
From: luomat@peak.org (Timothy J. Luoma) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTStep Read Receipts and Procmail Date: 30 Jun 1997 17:29:57 GMT Organization: The PEAK FTP Archive for NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Message-ID: <5p8qel$qqb$1@bashir.peak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is a new revised standard read-receipt parsing script for procmail It should have all the languages supported by NeXTStep/OpenStep # # This file: $RCFILES/read-receipts-parse.rc # where $RCFILES is defined in ~/.procmail # # Usage (in ~/.procmailrc): # :0W # * ^Subject: Read Receipt$ # * ^Received: by NeXT.Mailer # { INCLUDERC=$RCFILES/read-receipts-parse.rc } # :0 B * (Meddelandet angaende|\ Your message regarding|\ Il messaggio relativo a|\ El mensaje relacionado con|\ Votre message concernant|\ Ihre Mitteilung bezueglich) "\/[^"]* { SUBJECT=$MATCH :0fhw | formail -I "Subject: $SUBJECT" :0 | appnmail Read-Receipts } -- TjL <luomat@peak.org> / http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ NeXT bookmarks: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/bookmarks.html *** Starting July 2nd I will be taking Hebrew. Email and Usenet response time will be noticeably slower. ***
From: Cosmo Roadkill <cosmo.roadkill%bofh.int@rauug.mil.wi.us> Sender: chairpak@chairpak.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <33b7785e.0@news.net999.com> Control: cancel <33b7785e.0@news.net999.com> Date: 30 Jun 1997 18:57:45 GMT Message-ID: <cancel.33b7785e.0@news.net999.com> Organization: BOFH Space Command, Usenet Division Article cancelled as EMP/ECP, exceeding a BI of 20. A report will be published shortly on news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Sick-O-Spam, Spam-B-Gon!
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:32:02 -0400 Organization: SoftArc Inc. Message-ID: <maury-3006971432020001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <33b5d567.20998564@news.sover.net> <maury-2906971013110001@198.133.37.103> <33b72397.16357420@news.sover.net> In article <33b72397.16357420@news.sover.net>, ltogar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > Then it must be working. I see, the only way it could possibly not be working is if I did something wrong. Gee, that seems to fly in the face of all the problems other people have pointed out with this - I've had at least three letters now saying I shouldn't even bother trying to install it, and simply use OpenStep Enterprise instead because they had the same problems. I guess we're all just doing it wrong eh? Maury
From: fpovey@erols.com (Fred Povey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: I give up, Prelude is in the trash Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 13:17:43 -0400 Organization: none Message-ID: <fpovey-ya023080002906971317430001@news.erols.com> References: <maury-2506971723440001@199.166.204.230> <5p245b$27r@winter.erols.com> <5p2u2k$pnm@idiom.com> <33b72c98.582555230@nntp.idir.net> <5p3d46$a2n@newsb.netnews.att.com> <33b5d7b5.21588883@news.sover.net> <5p5jca$mfb@idiom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5p5jca$mfb@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > This is the kind of head-standing you have to do, because you have > a 640K memory limit, because some ASSHOLE at IBM didn't think about > expansion at all, and provide a pointer in the low end of the RAM > to tell you where to look for the video buffer. No, he HARD WIRED > it in! Not at IBM. At Microsoft. He said something along the lines of, "If anybody out there thinks they would EVER need more than 640K of RAM, I wish they would tell me why." His name was Bill Gates.
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Need help from you about Nextstep.. Thanx Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:28:36 -0400 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <0ni1Poq00iWP05h5Q0@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <Added.Mni1LP600UdhJB_E5Y@andrew.cmu.edu> This intended for "Jean-Claude" <murdoks@mbox.vol.it>, since email to that address bounces. I'm going to leave the full headers in so that he (or his service provider) can diagnose the problem. ---------- Forwarded message begins here ---------- Return-path: <MAILER-DAEMON@andrew.cmu.edu> X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 0;andrew.cmu.edu;Network-Mail Received: from po9.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr17/cs4w/Mailbox/sni1LPy00UdhJB:E9K>; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:23:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <Added.Mni1LP600UdhJB_E5Y@andrew.cmu.edu> Received: from localhost (localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) with internal id QAA19713; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:23:40 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:23:40 -0400 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@andrew.cmu.edu> To: <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="QAA19713.867702220/po9.andrew.cmu.edu" Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --QAA19713.867702220/po9.andrew.cmu.edu The original message was received at Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:45 -0400 from postman@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- murdoks@mbox.vol.it ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to k100-fddi.mbox.vol.it.: >>> RCPT To:<murdoks@mbox.vol.it> <<< 550 <murdoks@mbox.vol.it>... User unknown 550 murdoks@mbox.vol.it... User unknown --QAA19713.867702220/po9.andrew.cmu.edu Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; po9.andrew.cmu.edu Arrival-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:45 -0400 Final-Recipient: rfc822; murdoks@mbox.vol.it Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; k100-fddi.mbox.vol.it Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 <murdoks@mbox.vol.it>... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:23:39 -0400 --QAA19713.867702220/po9.andrew.cmu.edu Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id QAA19708 for murdoks@mbox.vol.it; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:45 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs30.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/service/mailqs/q007/QF.Qni1K7G00iWP01Asc0>; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs30.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr17/cs4w/.Outgoing/QF.8ni1K6i00iWP05h2w0>; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.NeXT.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NO T.LINKED.pcs30.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.pcs30.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <cni1K6e00iWP05h2o0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:22:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> To: "Jean-Claude" <murdoks@mbox.vol.it> Subject: Re: Need help from you about Nextstep.. Thanx Cc: In-Reply-To: <199706301718.TAA00462@fes3.cs.tol.it> References: <199706301718.TAA00462@fes3.cs.tol.it> Excerpts from mail: 30-Jun-97 Need help from you about Ne.. by "Jean-Claude"@mbox.vol.i > i've tried to use UNIX gunzip and tar command but NEXTSTEP says that cannot > exctract files beacuse file name too long (???).. Use 'gnutar' instead of just 'tar'. > I've this problem ever when i download a file from internet under WINNT... > can you take me a WEB BROWSER for NEXTSTEP and explain me to install > correctly the modem, the needed protocol and the software,, to let me > navigate the web... and don't disturb you no more ? Uhh...it depends on what protocol your service provider wants you to use. Take a look at <URL=http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/> and check out the PPP and/or SLIP software. There are links and a FAQ there. NEXTSTEP software usually decompresses into a ".pkg" file which you double-click on to run the Installer, which is very user friendly. > THANK YOU very much. You're welcome, -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist. --QAA19713.867702220/po9.andrew.cmu.edu-- Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.