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From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 05:33:15 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0101970533150001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> In article <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: >rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > >> ...whatever marks [DPS] *does* make will be very >> similar to the ones that can be made on paper. Definitely a >> limitation when drawing things to a computer screen where many >> things never have to be printed out. > >Jeez, what reality altering substances are you on! How many times >and in how many ways and how many examples do people have to show >before you comprehend that ___DISPLAY___ Postscript does an excellent >job of DISPLAYING? Excellent compared to what? Certainly not compared to GX. The GX graphics engine is not only more powerful than the PostScript one, it is also faster and uses less RAM. >Also, most people, weird as they are, actually consider it a BIG >BENEFIT that things on the screen and on the printed page look >exactly alike...an inhernent advantage of DPS over GX... GX does a better a job of this than Display PostScript can. Remember, Display PostScript includes commands that PostScript printers (even Level 2 ones) don't understand! Whereas GX includes a powerful GX-to-PostScript translator that takes care of all the common PostScript headaches for you, including Level-2-versus-Level-1 compatibility, path complexity limitations, font RAM usage and so on. >I have yet to hear one >single feature that can be accomplished in GX that cannot be >duplicated in DPS. Perspective transformations applied to text, while keeping it fully editable. Glyph substitutions that automatically break and reform as you type. Direct support for the Unicode bidirectional line-layout algorithm. A wide variety of Photoshop-like transparency effects. A plug-in font architecture that is completely font-format-neutral. You want me to keep going? For more info about GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:32:31 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32C85F1F.1A6E@exnext.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R3012961810540001@news.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jason S. wrote: > > In article <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com>, > scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) wrote: > > > In article <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg>, > > fatjelly@mbox2.singnet.com.sg wrote: > > > > >MS has aperchant of catching up don't they? > > > > > More like a penchant for imitation. If Xerox machines could copy things as > > fast as M$.... > > > > Couldn't resist... > > Xerox - the copier company, copied. Unfortunately, MS can't quite manage Xerox quality. More like a dog-eared mimeograph. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: Zachery Joseph Bir <zbir@jalapeno.ucs.indiana.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 31 Dec 1996 11:54:56 -0500 Organization: Very little Message-ID: <mbt3ewmhcwv.fsf@jalapeno.ucs.indiana.edu> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R3012961810540001@news.earthlink.net> <32C85F1F.1A6E@exnext.com> "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> writes: > > Jason S. wrote: > > > > In article <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com>, > > scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) wrote: > > > > > In article <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg>, > > > fatjelly@mbox2.singnet.com.sg wrote: > > > > > > >MS has aperchant of catching up don't they? > > > > > > > More like a penchant for imitation. If Xerox machines could copy things as > > > fast as M$.... > > > > > > > Couldn't resist... > > > > Xerox - the copier company, copied. > > Unfortunately, MS can't quite manage Xerox quality. More > like a dog-eared mimeograph. More like a child tracing through lined paper. > > -- > Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. > OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati > http://www.steeldriving.com > > -- Zachery J. Bir - zbir@indiana.edu http://seven.ucs.indiana.edu/~zbir/index.html
From: russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 31 Dec 1996 11:58:36 -0500 Organization: Ghotinet Message-ID: <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> In article <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov>, Thomas L. Ferrell <ferrelltl@ornl.gov> wrote: }>Long message completely snipped. } }Actually, there's plenty of time and help for the transition---see }Altura's annoncement in this newsgroup, for example. But there can be no transition. Apple's in a race for survival. They managed to change horses in mid-stride with hardly a pause when they went to PowerPC. Now it looks like they are willing to throw it all away and try something new. But already many developers are not developing for the Mac market because of the far more lucrative PC market. Many of those who are developing for that Mac market are probably doing so because that's what they know. Take that away, and the lure of the Dark Side (with all that cash) becomes much stronger. What happens if, say, Adobe decides that porting Photoshop over isn't worth it? Or if none of the word processor vendors see a need to port their product? If Microsoft itself doesn't bother writing Office for NewOS? Then Apple goes down and takes all the smaller developers with them. Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't it succeed the first time? -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@pond.com "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 06:04:55 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0101970604560001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <5a2i4a$3rl@duke.squonk.net> <AEEAC2C5-BE056@198.68.42.142> <5a673o$2eq@precipice.fdn.fr> In article <5a673o$2eq@precipice.fdn.fr>, hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) wrote: >"Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > >>QD (and by extension, GX) allow a maximum of 32,000x32,000x32-bit pixels >>using any number of monitors in any configuration of color-depths, sizes, >>shapes, etc, as long as every monitor touches at least one other monitor. > >I don't know the max number of pixels nor the max number of monitors, >but I know that a window can't be bigger than 10,000x10,000 pixels (which >is, at 72 dpi, 3.52 meter). I seem to recall a mention on comp.lang.postscript that there was a Display PostScript limitation on creating bitmaps larger than 3072 by 3072 pixels. This was deliberate, to prevent you from using Display PostScript as an excuse to avoid buying an overpriced PostScript printer. Not only has GX no such limitation, but I believe you can assemble bitmaps larger than 32000 by 32000 pixels by using an offscreen variation of its multiple-screen support. >But in this case I don't bother about this limit which is suffisant >for me : I don't need 5 meter displays. 1) Wall-sized displays could become cost-effective in future. The chances are very good that, by then, all of today's hardware will be obsolete, but a lot of today's software will still be in use. 2) Smaller, higher-resolution displays would be equally nice. Imagine a 300-dpi screen... >What is important is the power of the graphical engine. Under some mac >apps, you're limited by the max size of the font, or the max size of >the page, or the limit of the zoom factor and so on. As Eric King has pointed out, GX applications tend to be less constrained by such limits. By the way, here's an interesting fact: Acrobat Reader won't let me zoom in more than 800%, whereas I can zoom in more than that in a GX-based application. >With DPS, I'm not limited. I can create text bigger than 720 pt (no >visible limit : 256,000 pt works fine)... This brings up another point: PostScript has no inherent concept of text size. That is, all text is notionally rendered at a 1-point size, scaled up to the appropriate size by a separate transformation matrix. GX not only has transformation matrices, it also has a separate notion of text size. The difference is important, as any typographer or type designer will tell you (and no, this has nothing to do with resolution-dependence or hinting). One way to get around it in PostScript is to create a Multiple Master font which has an "optical size" axis. Which brings us to another point, that Multiple Master fonts are easier to use in GX applications than in Adobe's own software... >I can create 5 meter large >pages (in PM6.0, max is about 1 meter, in NS again, no limit), I can zoom >at any rate within my app (25,000 % is fine, whereas on the standard mac >DTP app, the limit is 800 % or 1600 %. For my job, 800 % is sometimes >not enough). > >Yes, DPS might look rude but it does the job and is only limited by >storage consideration (long int ? long long ? 80 bit FP ?) OK, I'll admit this is one area where Display PostScript has it over GX. GX uses 32-bit fixed-point numbers for its coordinates, whereas PostScript uses floating-point numbers. I should point out that floating point must be a source of significant overhead: after all, Acrobat PDF is defined so that you can get away with 32-bit fixed-point numbers without having to use floating point, and people are saying that PDF is the future of PostScript...
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Unnoficial Apple/Next FAQ Date: 31 Dec 1996 17:25:53 GMT Organization: Airwindows Distribution: inet Message-ID: <jinx6568-3112961227490001@news.sover.net> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <abridge-2912961954310001@dcn133.dcn.davis.ca.us> <m3g20n915u.fsf@cygnus.horizoncomp.com> In article <m3g20n915u.fsf@cygnus.horizoncomp.com>, juvvadi@cygnus.horizoncomp.com (Ramana R. Juvvadi) wrote: > Even for a single user PC superuser makes sense. Whenever you are in > superuser mode you let your guard up. Whenever you are in user mode > you let your guard down and relax. Other was you can end up inadvertently > deleting your entire hard disk :-) Standard Mac (and very likely NeXT) response- "Sorry, you cannot remove the disk with the active system software from the desktop." "Sorry, the file 'The Microkernel' is in use and cannot be deleted." "Are you sure you want to delete all files on the disk 'My _other_ disk without the system files on it but with lots of important stuff on it'? (cancel) (OK)" And _cancel_ had better be the default answer returned if you instinctively clear the dialog box by hitting return... This having-to-be-on-guard-every-second might give a nice adrenaline rush and sense of great power and responsibility, but it's just not worth it. Note that you can still wipe the hard disk- _only_ if you are paying attention and confirm a message in plain language saying that that's what you're doing. Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:35:29 -0500 Organization: Harvard Medical School Message-ID: <AEEEB9119668197F25@bos-ma9-12.ix.netcom.com> References: <AEEDB2AD-1417B7@199.183.202.57> <AEEDAA27-34A55@198.68.42.169> In article <AEEDAA27-34A55@198.68.42.169>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: >WHich newsgroup are you reading this from? I'm reading it from comp.sys.next.advocacy (which seems to be the primary source for discussions on the new OS these days), but my point was that we have already established here that it would be nice if Apple put in GX at some point in the future. Rather than trying to convince the newsgroups' readers of the benefits of GX, it might be better to communicate directly with Apple.
From: Walter Daugherity <daugher@tamu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: IBM 6x86 CPU ?? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:57:41 -0600 Organization: Texas A&M University Message-ID: <32C95414.41C67EA6@tamu.edu> References: <32BF5805.41C67EA6@tamu.edu> <59o0md$ir0$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CC: leigh@cs.uwa.edu.au Leigh Smith <leigh@cs.uwa.edu.au> wrote: >Using OmniWeb 2.X? I can consistently hang the 3.3p1 kernel starting up >Omniweb 2.X with a revision 2.7 6x86 133Mhz which does not happen if I >swap for an equivalent speed Pentium. This has been confirmed by at least >two other 6x86 people. Omnigroup have suggested the problem is deep in >mach kernel thread code. It'll take a miracle for it to ever be fixed. >Don't buy one. I'm trying desparately to sell mine for the best I can get >for it. Yikes! You're right--OmniWeb hangs my 100 MHz Cyrix 6x86 (Step 1, Rev 4). Better report it to Cyrix. They are very proud of their 100% compatability with Intel. -- Walter C. Daugherity Dept. of Computer Science E-mail: daugher@tamu.edu Texas A & M University http://www.cs.tamu.edu/faculty/daugher/ College Station, TX 77843-3112 ---Not an official document of Texas A&M---
From: darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com (Darin Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: macintosh, steve jobs, and next step are all back! Date: 31 Dec 1996 18:06:18 GMT Message-ID: <slrn5cilgn.pcq.darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> >Nonesense! PPC chips sucks. I won't run a PMac since they run the shitty >MacOS. IBM's PPC runs NT with nearly no applications available, and for >the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc >running Solaris with 50% more performance! PPC CPUs can eat shit. Bravo, a well reasoned and erudite argument! You're not a member of Toastmaster's are you by any chance? -- Darin Johnson darin@connectnet.com
From: Henry McGilton <henry@trilithon.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:20:58 +0000 Organization: Pacific Traders Message-ID: <32C8E90A.5FD6@trilithon.com> References: <5a2i4a$3rl@duke.squonk.net> <AEEAC2C5-BE056@198.68.42.142> <5a673o$2eq@precipice.fdn.fr> <ldo-0101970604560001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: * I seem to recall a mention on comp.lang.postscript * that there was a Display PostScript limitation on * creating bitmaps larger than 3072 by 3072 pixels. * This was deliberate, to prevent you from using Display * PostScript as an excuse to avoid buying an overpriced * PostScript printer. Bollocks. There were/are limitations on the *resolution*, and thus the total size of the bitmap image, which were forced upon Next/Adobe by Adobe's high-end [imagesetter] licensees like Linotype-Hell and others. The limitations are not inherent in the Display PostScript System. ........ Henry
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc From: sw@nan.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin) Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: news@nan.co.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: Network Analysis Ltd Message-ID: <sw-ya023580003112961636230001@newshost.nan.co.uk> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:36:23 GMT In article <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com>, vfr750@netcom.com (Will Hartung) wrote: > Mac programmers with intimate knowledge of C++, and the Mac Toolbox > with its idosyncracies have, apparently, been left behind...in one > fell swoop. > > "Everything you know, is wrong." The Mac IS dead: they are saying that there will be no further development of the MacOS as we know it today, although I expect it will limp along for a few years like the Apple II. This NeXT-based machine, whatever they may call it, is as different from the Mac as the Mac was from the machines that preceeded it. They can keep the same name, but as Coca Cola found out, that doesn't fool anyone. Of course it was going to happen sooner or later: the Mac is 12 going on 13 years old. It's just that in the old days, they knew and planned the transition and even had a prototype to show at the press conference. So now, we have to make the same decisions that we had to make back in '84. Do we port our appls to the new OS or to some other OS? Does the new OS give us something extra that makes possible an application that wasn't possible before? In 1984, the promise of the MacOS was such that I had no problem making a choice (maybe it was because I was 12 years younger and didn't have a mortgage and family round my neck). With this one, it isn't so clear cut. I think I'll wait and see. Certainly no "killer appl" for the NeXT-OS has emerged in the last few years. > Now Mac programmers have to choose to either learn the New MacStep, or > to move over to the Windows world. The transition will be the same for > them either way, as they will both be new environments that won't have > much in common with what they are doing now. If anything, it would be > EASIER to move to Windows as they can drag their hard learned C++ > knowledge over to MFC. I've ported several MFC appls to the Mac using MacApp and the frameworks are similar enough that I don't think I'll have that much trouble learning MFC. Learning the "New MacStep" is going to be a much bigger investment. So far, I haven't seen anything that tells me that such an investment will pay off. I look forward to being convinced otherwise. -- Sak Wathanasin Network Analysis Limited 178 Wainbody Ave South, Coventry CV3 6BX, UK Internet: sw@nan.co.uk uucp: ...!britain.eu.net!nan!sw Phone: (+44) 1203 419996 Fax: (+44) 1203 690690
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 31 Dec 1996 19:10:34 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5abofa$mfa@news4.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5foe$94p@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960537490001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > )No, I haven't missed anything... What you seem to miss is even > on )MacOS, GX ofttimes pukes on the most simple of documents; > and one )of the reasons many mac sites simply pull GX out b/c it > introduces )many headaches. > That's not GX's fault, bad third-party drivers or naughty apps > are invariably the culprit. Maybe so...but that's the way of things... I get no such problems with DPS under NeXTSTEP with any apps... Now maybe GX would do as well under OPENSTEP...certainly that maybe... But that is the current way of things. If it makes sense, if there are advantages to GX, and they can be relatively easily integrated into OPENSTEP... I say god bless GX. I'm all for cooler stuff that doesn't take away from day to day usability. GX has yet to prove its mettle on that VERY important issue... > )Whereas DPS just doesn't have any problems under )NeXTSTEP. > Exactly, under NextStep. Apple's new OS will be neither Nextstep > nor the Mac OS, it'll be a synthesis of the two. Compatibility > must be maintained with both, but in creating a new system > only the best technologies should be used. DPS made sense for > the direction Nextstep was going, but the Mac OS is going > someplace else, and GX makes more sense. Says who? You. Jeez, rather clairvoyant of you. So far GX seems to make printing less than reliable on a MAC... DPS seems to do all the same kind of stuff, reliably. DPS has been revised at least 6 or 7 times under NS, not breaking a SINGLE app, giving all apps access to color, etc etc. Memos still puke GX. DPS3 may make the idea of GX less important. Who knows...you seem to be certain, all I'm saying is I'm not so certain, and I've yet to see overly compelling reasons to go the GX route. I agree, if adobe goes insane and wants big bux for a license, then it's time to do a PS port, maybe w/ GX... Time will tell what... > There are really two parts to GX, the graphics, typography, > and layout section and the printing section. The GX Graphics > extension doesn't have the printing section and is virtually > trouble free. The Printing section which comes with the full > install has to rip out the old print architecture and replace > it with itself and plug all of the leaks. This was by no means > an easy task. The fact that GX is rock-solid now save for > incompatibilities with a few poorly written apps is down right > amazing. Not a few, a good number, and many of the biggest apps. And many others are dropping support. Why, the darn thing don't print right a lot of times. People need to print things w/o headaches. > )and maybe those problems might be obviated by )putting it on a > better foundation... > They would. GX has a lot of stuff in it that would have been > unnecessary had the Mac OS had a stronger foundation. It's > memory and virtual memory manager for instance. The printing > section (where most problems lie) would be a lot happier if > it didn't need to emulate the old printing architecture. Here I agree...and from and admittedly speculative vantage... I think splitting GX in two... just graphics 'painter' and the OO part up as kits/foundations up in OpenStep could likely do what DPS and OpenStep are doing... But right now that is a MAJOR job. Also, it's not clear how 'reliable' that solution would be. DPS really as been a ROCK under NeXTSTEP since 88... But I'm all for trying it out, if resources and time permit. I love having the latest/greatest technologies...as long as they are functional. > But to simply hammer DPS as > )if it's some shlock useless product seems rather uninformed. > It's not useless by any means. IMO, it's just not something > that Apple should be relying on for future products. By all > means keep it around, just start incorporating GX into the > appkit and pushing that instead. GX could probably be ported > to all of the OpenStep platforms in a few months. It's already > running on NT and Win95. It shouldn't be difficult to get it > going on the unix based systems. All it really needs is a > buffer to draw in and a pipe to send postscript or bitmaps to > an output device. Well, I think we have different spins on this, but have a general consensus...namely, apple would be crazy not to consider GX and any other superior imagine model if it makes sense to do so... If it does, and the circumstances (resource, time permits), then gods speed... -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 31 Dec 1996 19:57:58 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > In article <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net > wrote: > You are being equally close minded about GX, and again if DPS > couldn't blit simple bitmaps to the screen then I'd *really* > be worried. But a lot of people aren't just blitting bitmaps > anymore. Furthermore after looking into DPS' syntax, it is > just a pain in the butt to use compared to GX. You really don't have to use DPS to code. One uses OpenStep and that deals for most things for you. You are talking about an OO api on top of a graphics engine w regard to GX... DPS is that no nothing graphics engine being driven by OpenStep's OO api. That's not to say having cool things GX does in OpenStep wouldn't be way cool. But only if makes sense...if there is added functionality, if there is stability, if the resources and time requirements realistically fall w/in apple's time line... Then let's go for it... I don't see a substantial gain in functionality over the OpenStep + DPS implementation we have currently. However, I think apple should take a look at it... > ) )Also, most people, weird as they are, actually consider it a > BIG )BENEFIT that things on the screen and on the printed page > look )exactly alike...an inhernent advantage of DPS over GX... > GX was designed from the **beginning** to produce excellent > Postscript output for devices that needed it. In fact if you > consider transparency GX is actually better at it than DPS. > Why? DPS supports transparency but PS Level II does not, that > means that if you're DPS code uses transparency on screen > *you* will have to do the segmentation necessary to get proper > output. GX does it for you. Well maybe it was designed to be excellent, but in practice it is not... B/c in practice real people have problems getting GX to do simple things. That doesn't happen with DPS under NeXTSTEP. Transparency printing has been implemented by some under NeXTSTEP...but the market was never big enough to push the issue... DPS3 will ought to make that issue moot. > )And you CAN make all those things in DPS. I have yet to hear > one )single feature that can be accomplished in GX that cannot > be )duplicated in DPS. > Take the K channel of a CMYK image increase the contrast by > 25%, blend that with the L channel of a second image in HSL > space. Increase the saturation by 30%. Rotate the resulting > image by 30 degrees and clip to the word "Chancery" in the > 'smart' Apple Chancery Font and draw that with a subtractive > transfer mode across 2 monitors with different bit depths. > Take the resulting shape cache it so that GX won't have to do > most of that math again. Nothing that can't be done, or haven't seen done with apps under NeXTSTEP. > This is something that's doable right now with Lightning > Draw GX. But in a program you're looking at less than 50 > GX calls. The first time through will take a bit of time > to compute. The second time its drawn it will be basically > a straight blit or as close to one as possible because of > the caching. (btw. since Postscript doesn't support GX's > smart fonts this is truly impossible to do with DPS...) > ) DPS already works, it works much better and is )more stable > than GX in practice, There was an app (Gosh what's the name) it let you do all these smart font type things... Note, the app did them, not the font itself. But the exact same result...b/c the intelligence was in the OpenStep layer, instead of the font, but the net results were much the same... (was it TouchType). > If you're not using it on a daily basis, how can you comment > on its stability in practice? BECAUSE I REMOVED IT B/C OF STABILITY PROBLEMS. I've tried using several times in several different versions and removed b/c each time it resulted in printing problems. Garance who helps maintain mac labs at RPI has made statements much to the same effect. If you won't HEAR our real world experience and complaints, what am I to do? GX does have real world problems in printing. > )and the output is more WYSIWYG... > This is utterly false. In fact it's probably easier to get > the results you want with GX than with raw DPS calls. I don't > see the people who wrote UniQorn complaining about GX's > non-WYSIWYG output, in fact their app handles color much better > than Quark or Pagemaker due to GX's tight coupling with/reliance > on ColorSync. No, what you write is COMPLETELY false. Using the EXACT same code to draw the screen and to print is the highest level of WYSIWYG possible...by definition. Period. So as long as Postscript printers are the norm, DPS will achieve the highest WYSIWYG fidelity. Your refusal to accept this is just blind. > On Semper.fi a Nextstep user made a post about how one used > DPS to create a complex graphic. The process involved writing > some Postscript code, running it through PSWrapper to convert > it into C source and header files and then including that in > your project. This is inherently inefficient. If I create a > picture that has 4 bitmaps in it each rotate 45 degrees and > offset by each other by a small amount so that they overlap. > In DPS if you didn't want to make the actual C calls yourself > you would write out the actual postscript code for a function > say Draw4pictures run that through PSWrapper and include the > new files into your project. Every time you call Draw4Pictures, > DPS rotates the shapes, offsets them and then draws them. Sure > you could probably direct it to an offscreen buffer, but that's > more work on your part and there are cases where using an > offscreen buffer is not appropriate. You could also just make classes to make primitives for you much like GX does, and employ DPS to do it... > In GX you would apply the transforms to the bitmaps stick them > in a picture shape then call GXDrawShape. If you call > GXCacheShape, GX will remember the operations it did so that > when you call it again it will be much faster. (Rotating > bitmaps is slow.) GX also does everything in an object oriented > way. So you're free to rotate, skew, whatever the composite > picture shape till your hearts content. You can also do some > amazing things with viewports. Applying transforms to the bitmaps does not require PSWraps or any such thing. Again, making a higher level class/kit structure for more automated control in OpenStep may well be the way to go. One can do this for DPS, just as easily as for GX. Actually, one can probably move most of GX's functionality into that layer and allow the api to driver either GX's 'painting' primitives or DPS's... > Let's move on to transparency. Suppose you made your bitmaps > transparent. DPS would draw them just fine, but because it > doesn't cache it will constantly have to recalculate the > transparency ops. But we hit a problem when you want to print > this out. Sure you've got raw Postscript code, but since > transparency isn't supported, you'll have to manually calculate > the actual opacity of the regions of the composite picture > shape yourself. *Joy*. With GX you could just print your > composite shape and voila the transparency is handled. The above is true...again, DPS and PS have steadily been improving. Things have changed RADICALLY to DPS since the days of NEXTSTEP 0.8, at least 6 or 7 updates of DPS and not one app breaks... When D/PS3 comes along things ought to continue just working, transparencies and all.... > Incidentally color correction, and a bunch of other transfer > modes are handled as well. Apple really worked like a dog for > years trying to get these transfer modes into printable > Postscript code. There are still bizarre cases where they just > couldn't get things quite right, because Postscript still > 'thinks' in terms of applying opaque things to paper, but the > fact of the matter is, GX just does *more* for the developer. DPS does compositing and color correction stuff as well. GX's OO layer may well do so...nothing stops such fucntionality from being incorporated into the OpenStep layer...allowing it to drive whatever 'imaging' model employed...DPS included... > As I've said before DPS should be kept for compatibility, but > it *is* an inferior imaging technology. Apple didn't spend 7 > years working on overcoming Quickdraw's and Postscript's > inadequacies just to toss all that work aside and go back to > something lesser. Especially now that *large* apps like UniQorn, > Radius Edit, and MovieClips Pro are GX dependent. There is a staple of wordprocessing and DTP apps that are not, nor do they plan to be... Something like Tailor, seemingly ideally suited for such tasks have plans of REMOVING GX from the product... It doesn't print reliably. As I have said before and many others... If GX is has substantial functional advantages over DPS, can be integrated into NeXTSTEP/MaX w/o lowering reliability, and can be done w/o unduly/unrealistically tapping apple's resources and time constraints...LETS GO FOR IT... Apple should Clearly evaluate the pros/cons on this issue... But must FOCUS and concentrate on getting that port OUT... That is Focus #1, and I think we all pretty much agree on that... :) -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: jsamson@istar.ca (Jean-Paul C. Samson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 31 Dec 1996 19:59:44 GMT Organization: iSTAR Internet Incorporated Message-ID: <5abrbg$61s@news.istar.ca> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <sw-ya023580003112961636230001@newshost.nan.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <sw-ya023580003112961636230001@newshost.nan.co.uk> On 12/31/96, Sak Wathanasin wrote: >I've ported several MFC appls to the Mac using MacApp and the >frameworks are similar enough that I don't think I'll have that much >trouble learning MFC. Learning the "New MacStep" is going to be a >much bigger investment. So far, I haven't seen anything that tells me >that such an investment will pay off. I look forward to being >convinced otherwise. I programmed using Microsoft Visual C++ for Windows 95 for about nine months this year. I was very unimpressed with Microsofts API's, notably the Microsoft Foundation Classes (MFC). Trying to construct complex user interfaces with MFC is difficult--so much of the system feels like a kludge. I frequently had to employ what I felt to be "hacks" to get things working the way I wanted. For the past week I've been working on learning OpenStep. The hiearchy of user interface objects is vaguely similar to MFC's. However, NeXT's Foundation and Application Kits are much more robust than MFC. Objective C is pretty cool, but there are some features of C++ that I miss. For instance, in C++ you can construct typecasting member functions that are implicitly employed. Objective C doesn't have this feature--you have to explicitly call some class/instance methods to do this. I suppose that by explicitly making the calls in the code, it is more obvious as to what's going on, but I get tired of converting C strings (char*) to NeXT's Foundation Kit string objects (NSString). One of the challenging things with using Objective C and OpenStep is that there is a lot more dynamic binding happening. Instead of getting compiler errors/warnings as you would with static and late binding, you get runtime errors that are more difficult to debug. However, the additional features afforded by dynamic binding is worth the effort, in my opinion. I think that learning OpenStep is going to be a worthwhile investment. Sure, OpenStep is slightly more complex than other API's, but you don't need to know all the "ins-and-outs" of the OpenStep classes to get your programs working. However, it's essential to have a robust and complete API when you need to do some complex user-interface work. I don't think MFC offers the necessary flexibility. -- -===================================================================- Jean-Paul C. Samson -=- jsamson@istar.ca -=- NeXTmail & MIME welcome -============- http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~jeanpaul/ -=============- -===================================================================-
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 31 Dec 1996 20:17:32 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-3112961519280001@news.sover.net> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a4fhm$c7@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7CBE4.15D3@asiatlanta.com> In article <32C7CBE4.15D3@asiatlanta.com>, Tim Triemstra <Tim.T@asiatlanta.com> wrote: > I realize that all of these things have been tried and failed, but the > reason they failed is not because the theory was wrong, it was always > because the company got greedy too quick and didn't play ball long > enough. Apple has nothing to lose at this point, and if I could buy a > computer like this I would - wouldn't you? Why not? > Tim. I would not, not if you _gave_ it to me. Many of the problems inherent in Windows are traceable to the architecture, and this is why Microsoft is attempting to promote the idea of a slotless, sealed-box PC with no expandability at all. I can do better than _that_ on my old 68K Mac. When I can upgrade, I am going PPC with a vengeance, thank you. Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 31 Dec 1996 20:13:54 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-3112961515510001@news.sover.net> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> In article <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com>, aris@aris.next.com (Aris Colp) wrote: > What if Apple started selling it's own i586 hardware? > It could ship with MacOS 8.0, and perhaps even bundled with Windows > (and OPENSTEP for Windows). Then Apple would be buying into a dying architecture and a pain-in-the-butt operating system. Nope, no chance. Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: root@bytewarecafe.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: 32meg 70ns 72pin EDO simm for $140 Date: 31 Dec 1996 20:41:57 GMT Organization: bytewarecafe.com Message-ID: <5abtql$82i@newman.pcisys.net> We are a new site on the internet and we can supply your hardware needs. As a promotion to get our name out to you, we are running a special promotion on 32Meg simms. For a very limited time, we are selling 32Meg/70ns EDO simms for just 140+shipping and handling, delivered to your door within 2-3 days. Just go to our site www.bytewarecafe.com and fill out the necessary information about yourself and your credit card information. Goto the products list and choose the memory item. From here, select the memory you want and click on the invoice button to see your total charges. If you wish to browse the other hardware categories, feel free to browse for as long as you wish. If you wish to buy anything else, just select that item from that category. If you are satisfied with your selection(s) and your personal information is correct, click on the submit order button. The bytewarecafe.com server will respond with an order number and a time stamp. You will need these two numbers for any future correspondences with bytewarecafe.com Your order will be prepared and delivered to your door within 2-3 days. Thank you.
From: root@bytewarecafe.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: 32meg 70ns 72pin EDO simm for $140 Date: 31 Dec 1996 20:41:58 GMT Organization: bytewarecafe.com Message-ID: <5abtqm$82i@newman.pcisys.net> We are a new site on the internet and we can supply your hardware needs. As a promotion to get our name out to you, we are running a special promotion on 32Meg simms. For a very limited time, we are selling 32Meg/70ns EDO simms for just 140+shipping and handling, delivered to your door within 2-3 days. Just go to our site www.bytewarecafe.com and fill out the necessary information about yourself and your credit card information. Goto the products list and choose the memory item. From here, select the memory you want and click on the invoice button to see your total charges. If you wish to browse the other hardware categories, feel free to browse for as long as you wish. If you wish to buy anything else, just select that item from that category. If you are satisfied with your selection(s) and your personal information is correct, click on the submit order button. The bytewarecafe.com server will respond with an order number and a time stamp. You will need these two numbers for any future correspondences with bytewarecafe.com Your order will be prepared and delivered to your door within 2-3 days. Thank you.
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 31 Dec 1996 14:45:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEEEDA61-2C01D@198.68.42.209> References: <5ab7pk$t8s@news3.digex.net> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> said: I said: > >> I don't know about speed. It's part of the API to switch between >> color spaces automatically with the transfer modes: source/destination >> color spaces are contained within the ink object that specifies >> the transfer type; specialized matrices for handling specialized >> tasks dealing with transfer types and conversions between color >> spaces are also part of ink objects. > >Again, in 1988 NeXT was making demos on 68030 equipment using DPS, >overlaying transparencies and all kinds of stuff on animations. >DPS can do those kinds of things w/o a problem. Again: it is trivial to do these things using GX because they are built into the API as part of the standard objects used with GX. You CANNOT avoid doing them, in fact, since EVERY graphical object has these features (even if they are special-cased internally for the most used cases). All shapes have ink objects. All ink objects *automatically* contain all the info needed to handle color-space conversions, odd-ball transfer/composite modes, and all the rest of the info that an ink object contains. The standard cases are merely optimized, whereas the non-standard ones are dealt with more generically. Ditto with transform objects. Ditto with style objects. Ditto with all the attributes that a GX shape has. While some things are special-cased for extra speed, by the *nature* of GX, ALL cases are equally easy to program with. The specially-optimized cases are the default cases that the object is initialized with, but you can even chage the default attributes for new shape objects, if you like (you can't change the special-case optimizations, of course). --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: john_zollinger@arkona.com (John Zollinger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:37:39 GMT Organization: Arkona, LLC Message-ID: <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: > Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't > it succeed the first time? Marketing. With Apple's marketing prowess and installed base, who knows what may happen. Worst case: Majority of Mac users move to Windows in frustration and Apple flops with the OS and turn into a "software" company. Likely case: Most current Mac users stay with the new Apple OS and even some Windows users move to the new Apple OS. Best case: All current Mac users stay with the new Apple OS and hoards of Windows users move to the new Apple OS. Lots of applications take advantage of the OPENSTEP API, and OPENSTEP apps become a huge success across platforms (Mac, WinNT & 95, Solaris, etc.) OPENSTEP developers make lots of money and are rewarded for their perseverance and tenacity. :-) Personally I think it's a good fit. NeXT has great technology and they could never really find a good way to get that across to people. You pretty much had to be a developer to "get it" and fall in love with the OS & development tools. The cost put it out of reach of "normal" people. Apple has great marketing and a large installed base of committed users (who may be willing to trudge through the pain of the transition). With a larger installed base, the costs can be kept low enough people will be willing to give it a try. NeXT & Apple both probably have a few surprises up their sleeve too. Like Steve said, why stop at Cairo when you can go to Mecca? It's going to be an interesting ride. John Zollinger Software Engineering Director Arkona, LLC john_zollinger@arkona.com
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:07:49 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32C980A5.3E6B@exnext.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Kheit wrote: > > rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > > On Semper.fi a Nextstep user made a post about how one used > > DPS to create a complex graphic. The process involved writing > > some Postscript code, running it through PSWrapper to convert > > it into C source and header files and then including that in > > your project. This is inherently inefficient. If I create a > > picture that has 4 bitmaps in it each rotate 45 degrees and > > offset by each other by a small amount so that they overlap. > > In DPS if you didn't want to make the actual C calls yourself > > you would write out the actual postscript code for a function > > say Draw4pictures run that through PSWrapper and include the > > new files into your project. Every time you call Draw4Pictures, > > DPS rotates the shapes, offsets them and then draws them. Sure > > you could probably direct it to an offscreen buffer, but that's > > more work on your part and there are cases where using an > > offscreen buffer is not appropriate. > > You could also just make classes to make primitives for you much > like GX does, and employ DPS to do it... You could also create an EPS file in Illustrator and use that as a resource. Accessed as An NXImageRep. Have another class draw the images on screen, where desired. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:54:22 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080003112961754220001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C85ADD.6801@exnext.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32C85ADD.6801@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: )> I never said DPS couldn't blit... Blitting isn't enough these days. )> Start overlaying a few transparent (and CMYK for kicks) layers, clipping )> them to arbitrary shapes, etc. DPS' architecture just isn't up to that. GX )> handles it with ease and speed. ) )Has this been empirically proven? Or is it just theory/hype? It's hard to prove something empirically when DPS and GX have never run on the same platforms at the same time. ;) I can say that Lightning Draw which uses GX for everything redraws much faster than Illustrator (which presumably has a DPS-like core built-in) on my PowerMac. It also manages color-based effects far better. (and faster) Note, I did not say that Next's implementation of DPS is slow or that DPS isn't fast enough for animation. From an architectural standpoint its virtually impossible for DPS to be faster than a GX implementation on the same system. (This is assuming both are coded at the same quality level) DPS has no real concept of a shape object like GX has. It can only be used to interpret and rasterize PS commands. If I make 50 DPS calls to draw something, how will the DPS runtime know that it already evaluated those same calls before, furthermore how will it keep track of the results of those calls so that it wouldn't have to do them again? As to the debate over Postscript being geared for paper, the language does make some assumptions about the fundamental opacity of color. There's transparency in DPS and PSLevel3, but what about some of the other ways of combining color like those found in Photoshop's 'Apply Image' function? Can you for example slightly desaturate a group of arbitrary bitmap or vector graphics in Postscript? Or make it so that the luminance of one shape affects the hue and alpha channel of another? These are visual effects that make no assumptions about how color is handled on the output device, (and hence can be a pain to print...) and while they may seem 'transparent', Postscript's simplistic transparency model can't be used to model them. There's a reason why among the admittedly few apps that are GX-dependent 3 are video editing and effects packages. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: wrf3@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 18:23:28 -0500 Organization: Stablecross Software Message-ID: <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com>, john_zollinger@arkona.com wrote: | russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: | > Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't | > it succeed the first time? | | Marketing. | | With Apple's marketing prowess and installed base, who knows what may | happen. Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is an oxymoron? [...]
From: tfs@gravity.science.gmu.edu ( Tim) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Unnoficial Apple/Next FAQ Followup-To: alt.flame Date: 31 Dec 1996 05:34:56 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax Va. Sender: tfs-nope-nomail@vampire.science.gmu.edu Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5aa8m0$20q@portal.gmu.edu> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <abridge-2912961954310001@dcn133.dcn.davis.ca.us> <5a99so$3ns@news.tuwien.ac.at> <5a9gmm$qfe@news.bctel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Summary: Ack this is SPAM In article <too many to make sense>, <lots of people wrote> wrote: >>>>> [deleted] This thread has turned into a Holy War and is really approaching total SPAM status... I have no idea who the fool was who included every newsgroup in comp.* on it, but it's outta hand, if you're even THINKING of following up, please use your brain and not just a button on a screen. Email works wonders, in case you've forgotten... Me -- ________________________________________________________________ tfs@vampire.science.gmu.edu (NeXTmail, MIME) Tim Scanlon tfs@epic.org (PGP key aval.) crypto is good Seal Technologies Inc. I own my own words
From: ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:15:25 -0500 Organization: Harvard Medical School Message-ID: <AEEF16CD966829771@bos-ma11-17.ix.netcom.com> References: <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net> In article <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net>, John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> wrote: >...often pukes on simple files... Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX by apps, not because of GX itself.
From: "Thomas L. Ferrell" <ferrelltl@ornl.gov> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 1 Jan 1997 00:52:00 GMT Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab Message-ID: <5accfg$n1h@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: >In article <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov>, >Thomas L. Ferrell <ferrelltl@ornl.gov> wrote: >}>Long message completely snipped. >} >}Actually, there's plenty of time and help for the transition---see >}Altura's annoncement in this newsgroup, for example. > >But there can be no transition. Apple's in a race for survival. >They managed to change horses in mid-stride with hardly a pause when >they went to PowerPC. Now it looks like they are willing to >throw it all away and try something new. But already many developers >are not developing for the Mac market because of the far more >lucrative PC market. Many of those who are developing for that Mac >market are probably doing so because that's what they know. Take that >away, and the lure of the Dark Side (with all that cash) becomes much >stronger. What happens if, say, Adobe decides that porting Photoshop >over isn't worth it? Or if none of the word processor vendors see a >need to port their product? If Microsoft itself doesn't bother writing Office >for NewOS? Then Apple goes down and takes all the smaller developers >with them. Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't >it succeed the first time? >-- >Matthew T. Russotto russotto@pond.com >"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit >of justice is no virtue." Matt, I don't get your comment about no transition---it's already started and will continue. And as far as "race for survival" is concerned, aren't we all? There are a lot of "what ifs", but Adobe and Apple are already meeting. Also, I develop for Mac not because of "it's what I know", but because it's the best tool for the job, be it graphics (especially for me--medical graphics) or for any of a variety of educational and scientific apps. Quite frankly, most of my work absolutely cannot be done on a PC. My choice is either Mac or Siicon Graphics. And as far as word processors are concerned, I know of at least two major ones that will be ported. Do you really think there's any possibility that Microsoft will miss the NeXT opportunity--that'd be a first for them (It almost would not have been a first,but they just released some OpenDoc stuff!) There will be a major market for Apple and its new OS, and I don't want to miss it. Another point you make is that concerning the success of NeXT Step. Well. I for one would love to pocket their 1st quarter 97 profits---wouldn't you (projected at $50,000,00). The way the personal computer market has devloped has seen rapid change after rapid change with a very large degree of uncertainty. The "what ifs" can easily be turned around. Gates is stuck in a DOS rut and can't get out. The future belongs to unencumbered operating systems and I don't mind change at all. tom
From: hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 31 Dec 1996 18:13:26 GMT Organization: Individual - France Message-ID: <5abl46$8h@precipice.fdn.fr> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: >Blitting isn't enough these days. >Start overlaying a few transparent (and CMYK for kicks) layers, some NeXT DPS specific operators : ---------------------------------- * setalpha * composite * compositerect * alphaimage PS Level II operator -------------------- * Setcolorspace Level II known colorspaces : - DeviceGray - DeviceRGB - DeviceCMYK - CIEBasedABC where ABC can be : XYZ : CIE 1931 (XYZ) space RGB : well... RGB L*a*b* : CIE 1976 (L*a*b*) space YIQ : NTSC space (Never Twice the Same Color ;-) YUV : PAL and SECAM space - CIEBasedA (basicly, a monochromatical version of CIEBasedABC) - Pattern - Indexed - Separation (few usefull, for example to support In-Rip separation as PM6.5 does). Now, you also want to change the alpha parameter of a particular image without recalculating it, or modify a particular color component channel, no problem : * setcolorrendering * setcolortransfert > clipping them to arbitrary shapes Depending of what's your priority : * clip (PS) * viewclip (DPS) Note that all PS operators are supported by DPS Hugues. -------------------------------------------------------------------- hugues@precipice.fdn.fr - French, English, Italian and a few JP ->OK ------------ NS3.2 ------------ NS3.0J ------------ :-) ------------
From: Paul Naton <pnatona@cts.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: How do I Convert NEXT fonts to Mac Type 1 fonts? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 18:22:32 -0800 Organization: CTS Network Services Message-ID: <32C9CA63.53E9@cts.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any way to convert NeXT fonts into mac Type 1 fonts? I converted all of my adobe fonts from mac to Next years ago using Metamorphosis Pro. I would like to use some of those cool Fatted Cow fonts I use all the time ported from my Next to my new Power Computing Mac. There must be a way! Help me! Big NeXT and Mac Fan Paul Naton Maximum Graphixs pnatona@cts.com
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5abtql$82i@newman.pcisys.net> Date: 1 Jan 1997 02:29:36 GMT Control: cancel <5abtql$82i@newman.pcisys.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5abtql$82i@newman.pcisys.net> Sender: root@bytewarecafe.com Spam cancelled. Notice ID: 19970101.11. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce or http://spam.ohww.norman.ok.us/spam_notices/19970101.11.html for complete report. Original Subject: 32meg 70ns 72pin EDO simm for $140
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5abtqm$82i@newman.pcisys.net> Date: 1 Jan 1997 02:29:47 GMT Control: cancel <5abtqm$82i@newman.pcisys.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5abtqm$82i@newman.pcisys.net> Sender: root@bytewarecafe.com Spam cancelled. Notice ID: 19970101.11. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce or http://spam.ohww.norman.ok.us/spam_notices/19970101.11.html for complete report. Original Subject: 32meg 70ns 72pin EDO simm for $140
From: help@spry.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FREE EDUCATIONAL VIDEO/CDs Date: 1 Jan 1997 03:16:39 GMT Organization: Self Help Corp Message-ID: <5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> FREE ACCESS: WORLDS LARGEST COLLECTION OF SELF-HELP, EDUCATIONAL, INSRUCTIONAL,AND INFORMATIONAL VIDEO TAPES AND CD ROMs. http://www.totalmarketing.com "IMPORTANT" ACCESS CODE FOR SITE IS "69589" (69589) PLEASE MAKE A NOTE OF THIS ACCESS CODE, AS YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE SITE WITHOUT IT. " LEARN AT HOME "
From: guyo@island.net (Guy René Ouellette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:46:06 -0800 Organization: The Island Internet Message-ID: <guyo-3112962046060001@dyn114.island.net> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> In article <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com>, wrf3@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote: > Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is > an oxymoron? > > [...] Let's hope that the marketing of the merged Apple/NeXT is better than the marketing of either one! -- Guy René Ouellette guyo@island.net
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> Date: 1 Jan 1997 05:29:19 GMT Control: cancel <5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> Sender: help@spry.com Spam cancelled. Notice ID: 19970101.35. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce or http://spam.ohww.norman.ok.us/spam_notices/19970101.35.html for complete report. Original Subject: FREE EDUCATIONAL VIDEO/CDs
From: wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de (Wolfgang Keller) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Unnoficial Apple/Next FAQ 1.1 Followup-To: comp.sys.next.software Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 07:01:58 +0100 Organization: Customer of EUnet Germany; Info: info@Germany.EU.net Distribution: inet Message-ID: <19970101070158114990@peu1-115.m.eunet.de> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <carol1-2212961927330001@macip-ara-153.apple.com> <32be96c1.37286449@news.sover.net> <32BE991D.7AB7@sfbayrun.com> <1996123005394034493@peu1-41.m.eunet.de> <AEED18A9-17E66@207.158.13.7> X-no-archive: yes David Every <dke@adnc.com> wrote: > Except that Apple HAS PMT for low level tasks and drivers... its only > the app layer that doesn't have this PMT. And garanteed time seems to > work better on the MacOS's low-level stuff than on Windows from what > I've seen... if you doubt me, just watch the mouse and do different > things on both systems. The Mac almost NEVER stutters - Windoze does > all the time. Sorry, I've worked quite a lot with both Wintel and Macs (and several Unix-dialects). And I've seen lots of Macs who take half a minute or more to react (or even to not react at all, just one example: Eudora's 'you have new mail' and as long as you don't press 'Ok', your Mac stands still) to simple actions like mouseclicks to close a window and such. The MacOS is imho (from a user standpoint of vue) definitely _anything else_ but _not_ RT. > I don't know... Timbuktu and Apps like that seem to do a pretty damn > good job. (arguably better than X). Errr, here I also have to disagree. Under Unix, _any_ application can be run remotely and i/o can be redirected to _any_ Xserver running on _any_ other machine as long as there's an Xserver available for it. In fact, running applications remotely is the normal procedure in networks of unix workstations, just because there are very often less workstations than users (in university computer networks) or if some software only runs on special platforms or if an application needs more cpu power than the standard desktop workstations have. Under MacOS, running applications remotely is not a standard built-in feature of the OS, and it is not reasonable to do this (via third-part utilities) either (for standard applications) because there is no possibility at all to work with more than one user at a time on a Mac. Running applications remotely doesn't make any sense on a single-user OS. F'up2 set. -- Wolfgang Keller An Apple (tm) a day wolfgang@amadeus.m.eunet.de keeps the trouble away
From: Paul_Lynch@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Questions Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 06:19:59 GMT Organization: P & L Systems Sender: news@seer.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <1997Jan1.061959.26014@seer.demon.co.uk> References: <01bbf3a5$4320d840$d8e344cc@home.mis.net> In article <01bbf3a5$4320d840$d8e344cc@home.mis.net> "Michael Davis" <md444@mis.net> writes: > I have the following setup-- > AMd K5-100 > FIC 2006 motherboard > EIDE harddrive and cdrom > 32meg ram > ATI 3D xpression card > Alps Glidepoint Keybrd > Zoom .34I modem All good apart from the ATI card. > ALso, which scanners does openstep support? Printers? Any Postscript printer; there are various third party products for non-PS printers, like JetPilot. NeXT doesn't support any scanners directly; take a look at ScanOMatic for a decent third party product. > What is the best web Broswer to use on openstep? Either OmniWeb (free for single user on a net) or NetSurfer (commercial). Paul -- Paul Lynch (NeXTmail) http://www.plsys.co.uk/~paul
From: scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 01:55:33 -0500 Organization: PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals) Message-ID: <scottm-ya02408000R0101970155330001@news.erols.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R3012961810540001@news.earthlink.net> <32C85F1F.1A6E@exnext.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32C85F1F.1A6E@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: >> > More like a penchant for imitation. If Xerox machines could copy things as >> > fast as M$.... >> >> Xerox - the copier company, copied. > >Unfortunately, MS can't quite manage Xerox quality. More >like a dog-eared mimeograph. > Well, M$ programs stink like mimeograph sheets. -- -------------------------------- Scott Maxwell - scottm@nic.com "We are a fact-gathering organization only... the minute the FBI begins making recommendations on what should be done with its information, it becomes a Gestapo." -- J. Edgar Hoover
From: <pjbrew@ix.netcom.com> (Phil Brewster) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:54:09 -0700 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> In article <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu>, jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) wrote: > In article <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu>, Garance A Drosehn > <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: > > >aris@aris.next.com (Aris Colp) wrote: > >> What if Apple started selling it's own i586 hardware? > > >Who knows about 1999. By then Apple might ease out of the hardware > >business altogether, and just sell the Mac OS to companies making > >"Mac clones". If they are still into hardware, they are not likely > >to be looking to build anything based on Pentium chips. > > Of course, depending on software revenues would mean that Apple's next > offering has to grab sizeable chunks of the Dark Side's marketshare. Apple > couldn't drop hardware unless Microsoft is held in check. Could that even > happen by '99? I hope so, but I doubt it. I doubt Apple would even drop > hardware, for various reasons; but the important thing is that they rely > less on it for revenue. > > john > > --- - ------- ------- They may drop (or outsource) their hardware peripherals (monitors, printers, scanners) one of these days, but I don't foresee them halting design or production of CPU boxes (though the number of models offered may decline eventually vs. today -- this is one of Dr. Gil's stated goals for the company, to streamline the product line, etc.). I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily OS) sales and licensing. Today it's evidently less than that, so trying to survive on software sales alone would not be a very wise move anytime soon, needless to say.... As for i586 hardware, Apple currently sells a 100 MHz Pentium-class processor card for PC/DOS/Windows compatibility on Mac's -- and I could definitely see them including it as a standard component in the future, like on the Power Mac 7200's today, esp. considering NeXTstep's cross-platform strengths, but that's probably as far as they would ever go towards selling an i586 machine. (Hopefully if they do decide to do something along these lines with Mac/NeXTstep eventually, the card will be faster than a 100 MHz i586 processor, but anyway....). Cheers, -- Phil Brewster <pjbrew@ix.netcom.com> "[NT Server] received the fewest 'very good' votes for ease of use by end users, and users ranked Microsoft least favorably of all the companies in terms of support staff responsiveness. Also, NT tied [...] in lowest score for performance, and survey respondents gave NT the fewest 'very good' votes for reliability. [...] Despite the apparent shortcomings of NT, more NT users said they would recommend NT to other corporate buyers than did users of any other [...] system." ("Computerworld", November 4, 1996, p. 104) Sounds more like corporate sabotage to me.... ;-)
From: Jim Thompson <jim@smallworks.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: 01 Jan 1997 01:16:49 -0600 Organization: Smallworks, Inc., Austin, TX Message-ID: <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> edx@cc.usu.edu writes: > > In <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> "Karl Thomas" wrote: > > What makes the BeOS in it's current incarnation a better multimedia OS than > > NextStep? > > It is a true real-time OS. Mach in its current incarnation is not. Mach wouldn't be the 'best' move for Apple, for sure. However, despite rumors to the contrary, Mach already runs on the PPC. (Apple paid OSF to port it. This port is the direct ancestor of MkLinux.) I think NeXT's strengths are in their object technology; that's what they've been shopping around the last few years, not the underlying Mach OS. -- Jim Thompson / Smallworks, Inc. / jim@smallworks.com 512 338 0619 phone / 512 338 0625 fax HTML: The 3270 of the 90s
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 01:23:09 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> References: <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net> <AEEF16CD966829771@bos-ma11-17.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ishir Bhan wrote: > > In article <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net>, > John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> wrote: > > >...often pukes on simple files... > > Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX by apps, > not because of GX itself. If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: macintosh, steve jobs, and next step are all back! Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 05:33:44 -0500 Organization: Central Nervous System Distribution: inet Message-ID: <nervous-ya02408000R0101970533440001@news.netrover.com> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com>, "Frank Chu" <chu@ipoline.com> wrote: Scott wrote in article <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net>... > carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) wrote: > >In article <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net>, jasones@flash.net wrote: > > > >> 500Mhz DEC Alphas are already out, though its kinda pointless comparring > >> different processors by thier Mhz... > > > >Yea, but PPC chips have many more pins and come in brighter colors! > Nonesense! PPC chips sucks. I won't run a PMac since they run the shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs NT with nearly no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance! PPC CPUs can eat shit. Typical usenet wanker. Why don't you crosspost to more ngs. Let's see...you've covered Linux, Amiga, Windows, Mac, Unix and NeXT. Fucking wanker. -- Steve Jobs on 'Meile' washers and dryers - "They are really wonderfully made and one of the few products we've bought over the last few years that we're all really happy about. These guys really thought the process through. They did such a great job designing these washers and dryers. I got more thrill out of them than I have out of any piece of high tech in years."
From: kayners@htan.org (Steve Kayner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 23:45:07 -0800 Organization: NextGen Systems Internet Services Message-ID: <kayners-ya02408000R3112962345070001@news.ns.net> References: <AEED7C37-ED712@198.68.42.138> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <AEED7C37-ED712@198.68.42.138>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: [significant snippage] > Even with the new management in place, I'm not comfortable with the idea > that we can just sit back and assume that Apple will "do the right thing" > about ANY of this > -and not just GX, one of Apple's "orphaned" technologies, according to more > than one Mac magazine article... > [sigsnip] Those would be the magazines with the Be OS all over the cover this month, right? -=Steve=-
From: jabaker@grail.cba.csuohio.edu (jason) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Date: 01 Jan 1997 11:12:08 -0500 Organization: Cleveland State University Sender: jason@jlbaker.async.csuohio.edu Message-ID: <vohf9idd0.fsf@jlbaker.async.csuohio.edu> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nk87$a7o@news.internetmci.com> In-reply-to: JOSE_M@internetMCI.com's message of 24 Dec 1996 03:55:51 GMT In article <59nk87$a7o@news.internetmci.com> JOSE_M@internetMCI.com writes: That message don't make any since.....<scratching head> all e-mail is text only... how can you hide a binary file in ascii format??? you can't unless that tag a file with a text and then you have to run i manualy...... Can't you see that that you yourself are propagating this internet message virus which has already infected 35 newsgroups? Jason
From: pecora@zoltar.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 1 Jan 1997 16:36:00 GMT Organization: Naval Research Lab Message-ID: <pecora-0101971136440001@esp225.nrl.navy.mil> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> In article <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com>, wrf3@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote: > In article <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com>, john_zollinger@arkona.com > wrote: > > | russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: > | > Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't > | > it succeed the first time? > | > | Marketing. > | > | With Apple's marketing prowess and installed base, who knows what may > | happen. > > Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is > an oxymoron? Yes. It's an oxymoron. Lou Pecora code 6343 Naval Research Lab Washington DC 20375 USA == My views are not those of the U.S. Navy. == ------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the 4th Experimental Chaos Conference Home Page: http://natasha.umsl.edu/Exp_Chaos4/ ------------------------------------------------------------
From: leonvs@occam.com (Leon von Stauber) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.admin Subject: Re: NEXTSTEP Security, and NetInfo Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.admin Date: 1 Jan 1997 17:17:14 GMT Organization: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <5ae66q$4j4@hackberry.zilker.net> References: <ericu-2212962230560001@crappie.execpc.com> <59thpe$1t6@portal.gmu.edu> <5a3c0a$726@hackberry.zilker.net> <5a58o4$l4q@portal.gmu.edu> Cc: tfs@gravity.science.gmu.edu NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY,COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADMIN Was your Christmas less than merry, Tim? You certainly seem in a foul mood this holiday season. In <5a58o4$l4q@portal.gmu.edu> Tim wrote: > In article <5a3c0a$726@hackberry.zilker.net>, > Leon von Stauber <leonvs@occam.com> wrote: > >NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY,COMP.SYS.NEXT.MISC > > > >In <59thpe$1t6@portal.gmu.edu> Tim wrote: > >> that being said, security becomes an issue with the power you > >> get under all that GUI. Fortunatly NS is one of the more secure > > Damn, here I thought I all but avoided getting into areas that > could provoke holy wars. Out of a monster post, you managed to > yank out the very few sentances that had the least relivance > to what I was posting about. Also, didn't I post in Sorry, I forgot about the Usenet law that requires me to address your entire post. > comp.sys.next.sysadmin about this? If I didn't pardon me, > that's where I THOUGHT the conversation was supposed to be, > and it's where I THOUGHT I posted. I may have been totaly mistaken, > but I don't think so. Well, no you didn't post in c.s.n.admin. I followed up in that group, since it's the more appropriate place for this discussion. I'm setting followups appropriately for this article as well, since you neglected to post yours to c.s.n.admin again. > >Security is an issue anytime a system provides services over a > >network, or is physically accessible by people who shouldn't touch > >it. It's *less* of an issue with a UNIX (or even NT) system than > >with something entirely lacking in multiuser support and basic > >filesystem security, such as MacOS or DOS/Windows. > > There isn't a computer on the face of the earth that doesn't > have security accesible by people who shouldn't touch it. Usualy I think I just said that. > we describe those people as "users". And don't _even_ bring > NT into this discussion, as it's less stable than a crack junky > on a pogo stick security wise. I agree it's got some work left. (I recently saw an advertisement for a company that claimed it could "recover" lost Administrator passwords in a matter of hours.) However, all I said was that it is superior to single-user systems in that regard. > So other than pompusly mis-stating the obvious there, what's > your point? I misstated nothing. > >As for NEXTSTEP, it's no more secure than any other UNIX. In > >fact, it's arguably a little lacking in that area. No support for > >ACLs, and a study of the stability of UNIX tools in various > >environments rated NEXTSTEP the worst. (I might be able to hunt > >down a URL if anyone's interested.) The naming service used > >(NIS, NIS+, NetInfo) is a separate issue. > > Oh please, is this the equivocating argument of the month or what? > NeXTSTEP has it's faults security wise, just like any other > OS, but it's not bad, and it's better than allot of other > unixes that are out there. Like which ones, and in which specific ways? > If you're going to cite studies, fucking > cite them, don't refer to them in the '9 out of 10 dentists' bad TV > mode. This is not baseless assumption. As I said, there was an independent study done, and there is a URL for it. Unfortunately, I don't have it with me, and couldn't locate it just now. I'm almost sure it's referenced in _Practical UNIX & Internet Security_ by Garfinkel and Spafford. I left my copy at work, so I'll have to check on it tomorrow. The gist of the study was this: A tool was written which would throw random input at UNIX utilities. Many of these utilities would break (either crap out themselves or hang or crash the whole system) due to problems with buffer overruns and the like, which are the types of problems that crackers often like to exploit. Something like 8 versions of UNIX were tested, including NEXTSTEP and Linux, and I believe SunOS and Solaris. NEXTSTEP rated the absolute worst in the quality of its tools, with something like 46% of them being vulnerable to bad input. The least vulnerable? Linux. The study was done twice, a few years apart, and both times NEXTSTEP did poorly. (The others really didn't fare very well, either, with most posting only minor improvements over the years.) > >> Unix based OS's that you can find. Netinfo is -way- superior to > >> NIS & NIS+ in that respect, and it's also a bit easier to secure > > > >NIS is a crock wrt security, so it's not saying much that NetInfo > >beats it there. But NIS+ supports encryption of authentication and > >information transfers, which NetInfo can't do. > > Last time I checked there was authentication mechanisims in Netinfo Read what I wrote. It's not encrypted. Passwords are sent in the clear over the network. > that were pretty good. NIS+ does have encrypted info transfers, > but that isn't exactly an ass saver in the security department. > Better than it was granted, but if you are depending on that, > well, you're probably owned. Telnet and rlogin and all the > rest of the possible sniffable universe is a far easier target > on the same wire. But if you've secured yourself against these problems (using ssh and the like), and your network information service is still vulnerable, then you haven't helped yourself all that much. In this situation, something like NIS+ or Kerberos or DCE *is* an ass-saver. > >NetInfo is also notoriously touchy. Futzing up a machine or even > >an entire NetInfo network is easier than toasting bread. > > For who? I've never had any significant problems. Nor has anyone > ever said that to me. I've seen Netinfo get hosed up bad, but > usualy by stuff like the insertion of bad data. And I've got This is one way to do it. And recovery is a pain. > experience on some pretty huge Netinfo networks too. Other > than that, the problems that I've had with it have been attributable > to stupid things *I* have tried to do, usualy without checking > docs, or similar stuff, and they've all been local experiments > & the like. It's also vulnerable when the network isn't in the greatest of shape. See c.s.n.admin for some specific examples I've posted. > >I do like the tools, though. If I had three wishes for NetInfo, > >they would be: > > > >1) Make it more robust, easier to withstand small problems. > > > >2) Support encryption everywhere. > > > >3) Make licensing inexpensive. (Anyone have current prices?) > > > >I'd also like it supported on a few more platforms: IRIX, SCO, > >even Linux. Maybe even NT? If NetInfo could do all this, I could > >recommend it as an enterprise-wide solution for one of my current > >employers, instead of just using it for our NEXTSTEP machines. As > >it stands, I really can't. > > Erk, you're sort of ill-informed here. There's a company called > Xedoc that makes it for all sorts of platforms. And was doing a > survey about 7 months ago on wether people wanted it on NT. Er, no I'm not. IRIX support was only recently added by Xedoc, a SCO version does not exist, nor does a Linux version (although they're working on it). Nor does an NT version, regardless of whether a survey was done. > As for your 3 points, I concur with them, but take exception > to the first one. It needs some more warnings to prevent people > from doing things that'll break it. But I wouldn't want to sacrifice > the power it gives me either. I agree. ____________________________________________________________________ Leon von Stauber http://www.occam.com/leonvs/ Occam's Razor, Game Designer <leonvs@occam.com> PSW Technologies, System Administrator <leonvs@pswtech.com> MIDS, Web Developer <leonvs@mids.org> "We have not come to save you, but you will not die in vain!"
From: leonvs@occam.com (Leon von Stauber) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: A MacSteP OS prayer... Date: 1 Jan 1997 17:21:18 GMT Organization: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <5ae6ee$4j4@hackberry.zilker.net> References: <ericu-2212962230560001@crappie.execpc.com> <59thpe$1t6@portal.gmu.edu> <5a1l2t$5ac@argo.patnet.caltech.edu> <32C6110C.E41@xedoc.com.au> <rpk-ya02408000R2912962108040001@news.std.com> Cc: rpk@world.std.com In <rpk-ya02408000R2912962108040001@news.std.com> Robert P. Krajewski wrote: > Does NeXTStep have a security model that is any more sophisticated than the > classic ordinary user vs. root model ? In particular, are there permissions > as in NT or VMS ? No, not beyond the standard UNIX permissions scheme. It's something I'd like to see added, perhaps with an OODBMS filesystem. (And it galls me to say that NT has anything over NEXTSTEP!) ____________________________________________________________________ Leon von Stauber http://www.occam.com/leonvs/ Occam's Razor, Game Designer <leonvs@occam.com> PSW Technologies, System Administrator <leonvs@pswtech.com> MIDS, Web Developer <leonvs@mids.org> "We have not come to save you, but you will not die in vain!"
From: "Anthony C. Olsen" <olsena@cs.byu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Cyrix 6x86 - P150+ for SALE Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 10:26:19 -0700 Organization: Brigham Young University Message-ID: <32CA9E3B.653B@cs.byu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm selling my IBM computer. Here are the specs: Cyrix 6x86 P150+ 1024x768 - 14" monitor (nice model) 8x CDROM 1.2 GB harddrive Video accelerator card 16-bit sound card w/ speakers 14.4 Date/Fax/Voice Modem (keyboard, mouse, mousepad (older), 3.5" floopy drive) Windows95 All brand new (3 months old) $1500 O.B.O. You can call me at (801) 373-6180, or e-mail me at my address below Tony Olsen Provo City, Utah, USA -- Anthony C. Olsen (Tony) mailto:olsena@cs.byu.edu NEW!! Check out my allias e-mail address!! =) mailto:ferris@myself.com http://students.cs.byu.edu/~olsena/index.html "God lives! The Book of Mormon is true!" http://spock.et.byu.edu/~mcakir/bom.html
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 1 Jan 97 11:20:47 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97Jan1112047@howard.one.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In-reply-to: rex@mit.edu's message of Mon, 30 Dec 1996 04:58:01 -0500 In article <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) writes: In article <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: )Things like showing several QT movies running at once, DOOM )running, dragging multi Mb Tiffs around in realtime...yet you just )constantly keep spewing this uninformed drivel that somehow )DISPLAY Postscript is not capable of displaying things )effectively. Just an astounding display of being closed minded. You are being equally close minded about GX, and again if DPS couldn't blit simple bitmaps to the screen then I'd *really* be worried. But a lot of people aren't just blitting bitmaps anymore. Furthermore after looking into DPS' syntax, it is just a pain in the butt to use compared to GX. Bah, then you're both being closed-minded. You call DPS a "pain in the butt" after looking at the syntax for, what, ten minutes? Two hours? Three days? I've been programming almost exclusively NeXTSTEP for eight years, and I've only had reason to program directly in Postscript on a handful of occasions. And on those occasions, the capability of coding Postscript using one of the simple tools out there (usually Yap) was a godsend. I could test different options in seconds, directly from edit to run, no compile-link. Then, when I was happy with the code, I had the option to pop it into a pswrap and use it like a C function from there on out. On Semper.fi a Nextstep user made a post about how one used DPS to create a complex graphic. The process involved writing some Postscript code, running it through PSWrapper to convert it into C source and header files and then including that in your project. This is inherently inefficient. If I create a picture that has 4 bitmaps in it each rotate 45 degrees and offset by each other by a small amount so that they overlap. In DPS if you didn't want to make the actual C calls yourself you would write out the actual postscript code for a function say Draw4pictures run that through PSWrapper and include the new files into your project. Every time you call Draw4Pictures, DPS rotates the shapes, offsets them and then draws them. Sure you could probably direct it to an offscreen buffer, but that's more work on your part and there are cases where using an offscreen buffer is not appropriate. You once heard someone describe how they did something and it was an involved process. And now you're extending that to everything on the system? pswrap is a means of taking small often-used snippets of Postscript code and bundling them into a predigested format so that they run quickly. Anyone who's bundling bitmaps into a pswrap needs some _serious_ hospitalization! And "inherently inefficient" is a tough old nut to crack. Perhaps the NeXTSTEP user you mentioned was able to build the graphic hacking Postscript in 10% of the time it would have taken to write a real program to do it. Perhaps the user only did it as an experiment, and never used it in a real program. Perhaps it was only ever displayed once, so nobody cared whether the speed of the second display was no faster. In any case, just because one person did something in an "inherently inefficient" manner doesn't mean that you are _forced_ to do so. I have no idea if GX is as awesome as you say it is. I _do_ know, though, that it's not as much more awesome than DPS as you say it is, because _nothing_ out there is that much more awesome than DPS. I won't claim that DPS is the ultimate in display technology, but it's pretty damned good. Later, -- scott hess <shess@one.net> (606) 578-0412 http://w3.one.net/~shess/ <I plan to become so famous that people buy tapes of me reading source code>
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 13:56:20 -0500 Organization: phenix@interpath.com Message-ID: <199701011356203592266@roxboro-185.interpath.net> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> Will Hartung <vfr750@netcom.com> wrote: ] Obviously, it's hard to say what's really going on, but with Apple ] suggesting that they will have something out by late '97, and that ] Something being heavily influenced by NeXTSTEP, I have to wonder. ] ] What happens to all of the Mac Programming expertise and mindshare? ] ] Folks have been hacking Macs for over 12 years, and while there have ] been changes in the MacOS over time, they were mostly incremental, and ] hardly revolutionary. Most of the basic premises remained the same, ] with more added features and techincal details. Technically, something ] written in 1984 could still run today. The wonders of backward ] compatability. It's a little more than technically possible, I have a GAME, Lode Runner, that has worked on every mac that I've ever had. Creation date is shown as Tue, Oct 23, 1984, 6:20 PM. ] However, what the NeXT folks know, and the Mac folks are going to ] learn, is that NeXTSTEP is not the MacOS. Not even close. While Mac ] folks have been learning the various frameworks (MacAPP, Powerplant, ] Symantecs -- all C++ based), NeXT based their own little coding ] empire on Objective-C. I don't think that there will be a problem with the various languages, I expect that MW will have a pascal compiler that works let alone C++, but the real problem that I see is in the frameworks and the toolbox no longer working. OTOH they could possible implement a good portion of the toolbox as glue code that actually calls NextStep functions. ] Mac programmers with intimate knowledge of C++, and the Mac Toolbox ] with its idosyncracies have, apparently, been left behind...in one ] fell swoop. ] ] "Everything you know, is wrong." I hope not. But will wait and see. -- John Moreno
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 13:56:23 -0500 Organization: phenix@interpath.com Message-ID: <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> Bob Felts <wrf3@mindspring.com> wrote: ] In article <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com>, john_zollinger@arkona.com ] wrote: ] ] | russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: ] | > Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't ] | > it succeed the first time? ] | ] | Marketing. ] | ] | With Apple's marketing prowess and installed base, who knows what ] | may happen. ] ] Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is ] an oxymoron? I was getting ready to reply with a similar "What?!". But after I stopped laughing I thought I'd check the replies that had already been made, and yours pretty much sums it up. "Apple's marketing prowess" - does anybody besides me think this is suitable for posting in rec.humor? -- John Moreno
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 1 Jan 97 13:12:42 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97Jan1131242@howard.one.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961527410001@news.erols.com> <rex-ya023080003012961919390001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In-reply-to: rex@mit.edu's message of Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:19:39 -0500 In article <rex-ya023080003012961919390001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) writes: In article <scottm-ya02408000R3012961527410001@news.erols.com>, scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) wrote: )In article <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: )>Also, most people, weird as they are, actually consider it a BIG )>BENEFIT that things on the screen and on the printed page look )>exactly alike...an inhernent advantage of DPS over GX... ) )SO what's the problem with using BOTH systems? GX will make a nice )compatibility blanket for Mac programmers and DPS will be there )for those that choose to use it. Make sense? Absolutely. DPS will probably be used by Adobe and OpenStep folk. GX will probably be more popular with mainstream Mac programmers,. Apple should look towards deeply incorporating GX into the new OS' appkit during the next 2-3 years. My dream for a long time, now, is that someone would write a window super-server. Not a super window-server, but a window server which did only one thing - serve windows. None of this silly drawing stuff. Sort of a microkernel windowing system. With that as the core, there's little or no reason why you couldn't have different "personalities" for different windows. DPS for some, GX for others - X Windows for others, perhaps some skip a drawing system entirely and go to the raw window. This is _not_ NeXT's Interceptor, which lets a program "poke through" DPS directly to the screen buffer. I'm thinking that it should be the way things work - no DPS to poke through. Indeed, DPS would be using the same services to get a framebuffer as any other windowing system would be. The main problem with such a solution is making it fast. My thought, though, is that if someone spent time looking at how to make it fast, you could get pretty close to the speed you'd get with a monolithic window server, perhaps within 5%. But what a 5%! Rather than have the native windowing system at 100%, and any emulated systems (X, whatever) at 70%, you'd have _all_ windowing systems at 95% of potential. This would be very important with a Mac+NeXT OS. Later, -- scott hess <shess@one.net> (606) 578-0412 http://w3.one.net/~shess/ <I plan to become so famous that people buy tapes of me reading source code>
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 1 Jan 1997 12:39:02 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan W. Hendry <jon@exnext.com> said: >> Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX by apps, >> not because of GX itself. > >If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. > No, it's because the QD apps were using non-documented features of QD printing. MS is well known for this. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: wmanders@ix.netcom.com(W. Thomas Manders ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.emulators.mac.executor,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXT/Apple: ARDI is the missing key Date: 1 Jan 1997 19:45:41 GMT Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <5aeet5$mqn@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com> References: <tgmE39vy0.2s4@netcom.com> In <tgmE39vy0.2s4@netcom.com> tgm@netcom.com (Thomas G. McWilliams) writes: > >The NeXT/Apple deal offers tremendous potential >[disclaimer: I have no ties to NeXT, Apple or ARDI, these are just > my personal thoughts.] > Very good idea, if Apple fails to deliver in the next 6months then they are out of business.
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:56:58 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32C856CA.122A0AB1@screaming.org> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <5a1mnl$qeg@morgoth.sfu.ca> <5a1v6a$2s5@News.Dal.Ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First, when y'all are writing "true real-time", are you talking about hard or soft realtime? One should really be clear about that. I'm certain that soft realtime is what is really being discussed here, but hard realtime systems are somewhat more "true" realtime than soft realtime. (Which leads me to think that one should avoid the word "true" altogether.) Second, the nuKernal comments by John Christie assume that all UNIX systems are created equal. They are not. It's pointless to talk about them as if they are. Messaging services are a function of the microkernel, which is a level below anything UNIXy. There's no reason that UNIX can't inherit the benefits of any miracle microkernel cure, in terms of messaging. John Christie wrote: > Brian Quinlan (quinlan@sfu.ca) wrote: > : edx@cc.usu.edu writes: > : >It is a true real-time OS. Mach in its current incarnation is not > : I believe that Apple will probably use NuKernal. > Which, to elaborate, may or may not be RT. In the original > nuKernal white paper it was stated that it was not true RT. However, > Apple also claimed that they would not adopt the BeKernal because it > wasn't true RT (which I thought was not true). There is nothing publicly > known about the current state of the nuKernal but it appears that it is > probably RT and Apple claims that it is finished. I hope they use the > nuKernal. SMP was designed in from the beginnning and the messaging > services are supposed to be far superior to UNIX. -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 15:09:22 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com> References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lawson English wrote: > > Jonathan W. Hendry <jon@exnext.com> said: > > >> Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX by apps, > >> not because of GX itself. > > > >If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. > > > > No, it's because the QD apps were using non-documented features of QD > printing. MS is well known for this. If GX replaces Quickdraw, then it is the responsibility of GX to match the behavior of QuickDraw. Blaming pre-existing applications for incompatabilities in new software is pretty lame. It's not like Apple doesn't have the source to QuickDraw. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 1 Jan 1997 16:01:04 -0500 Organization: Ghotinet Message-ID: <5aejag$mk@wanda.vf.pond.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <5accfg$n1h@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> In article <5accfg$n1h@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov>, Thomas L. Ferrell <ferrelltl@ornl.gov> wrote: }russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: }>In article <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov>, }>Thomas L. Ferrell <ferrelltl@ornl.gov> wrote: }>}>Long message completely snipped. }>} }>}Actually, there's plenty of time and help for the transition---see }>}Altura's annoncement in this newsgroup, for example. }> }>But there can be no transition. Apple's in a race for survival. }>They managed to change horses in mid-stride with hardly a pause when }>they went to PowerPC. Now it looks like they are willing to }>throw it all away and try something new. But already many developers }>are not developing for the Mac market because of the far more }>lucrative PC market. Many of those who are developing for that Mac }>market are probably doing so because that's what they know. Take that }>away, and the lure of the Dark Side (with all that cash) becomes much }>stronger. What happens if, say, Adobe decides that porting Photoshop }>over isn't worth it? Or if none of the word processor vendors see a }>need to port their product? If Microsoft itself doesn't bother writing Office }>for NewOS? Then Apple goes down and takes all the smaller developers }>with them. Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't }>it succeed the first time? }Matt, I don't get your comment about no transition---it's already started and }will continue. "No discontinuity" would probably be the right term. And it seems there is going to be a major one. }major ones that will be ported. Do you really think there's any possibility that }Microsoft will miss the NeXT opportunity--that'd be a first for them (It almost }would not have been a first,but they just released some OpenDoc stuff!) If they see it as a method to safely eliminate their major obstacle to total PC market domination, sure. Of course, if they do that they won't be able to snag all of Apple's technologies and claim it as their own -- but it won't matter, as people won't have an alternative. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@pond.com "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."
From: russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 1 Jan 1997 16:05:42 -0500 Organization: Ghotinet Message-ID: <5aejj6$so@wanda.vf.pond.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net> In article <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net>, John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> wrote: }Bob Felts <wrf3@mindspring.com> wrote: } }] In article <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com>, }john_zollinger@arkona.com }] wrote: }] }] | russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: }] | > Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't }] | > it succeed the first time? }] | }] | Marketing. }] | }] | With Apple's marketing prowess and installed base, who knows what }] | may happen. }] }] Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is }] an oxymoron? } }I was getting ready to reply with a similar "What?!". But after I }stopped laughing I thought I'd check the replies that had already been }made, and yours pretty much sums it up. } }"Apple's marketing prowess" - does anybody besides me think this is }suitable for posting in rec.humor? Yes. -- Matthew T. Russotto russotto@pond.com "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."
From: N@broken.demon.co.uk (Nik) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 21:23:34 +0000 Organization: - in a straight line - Distribution: world Message-ID: <AEF0865696681A8D6@broken.demon.co.uk> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <mbt3ewmhcwv.fsf@jalapeno.ucs.indiana.edu> In article <mbt3ewmhcwv.fsf@jalapeno.ucs.indiana.edu>, Zachery Joseph Bir <zbir@jalapeno.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote: >"Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> writes: > >> >> Jason S. wrote: >> > >> > In article <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com>, >> > scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) wrote: >> > >> > > In article <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg>, >> > > fatjelly@mbox2.singnet.com.sg wrote: >> > > >> > > >MS has aperchant of catching up don't they? >> > > > >> > > More like a penchant for imitation. If Xerox machines could copy things as >> > > fast as M$.... >> > > >> > >> > Couldn't resist... >> > >> > Xerox - the copier company, copied. >> >> Unfortunately, MS can't quite manage Xerox quality. More >> like a dog-eared mimeograph. > >More like a child tracing through lined paper. More like the concept of that bun that looks like mother Terrasa, or that potato chip that looks kinda like elvis in '68. Ahhk, whatever... Happy New Year ! Nik.
From: polyex@mail.netsrq.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 30 Dec 1996 21:56:14 GMT Organization: Intelligence Network Online, Inc. Message-ID: <5a9dpu$k0p@mercury.IntNet.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> I>rather see Apple be very selective about what it ports to OpenStep than throw >every existing Mac technology into. If they are smart they will concentrate on >OpenDoc and Java while making sure these changes are applied across all the >current >OpenStep platforms (Intel, etc). > Jack > >-- >Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue >NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 >Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 >Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474 I agree 100%, Also I would like to hear that we can begin development for the new NeXTMac OS, with the current OpenStep stuff that is available for Intel etc, knowing that when the PPC version is released, it will be a minimal step to make it run on that platform. As a developer this prospect is very exciting. Adam Hall PolyEx Software Come check out the Wordup Graphics Toolkit for OS/2 Warp! http://www.netsrq.com/~polyex
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 07:29:17 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5afo4d$g0b@news3.digex.net> References: <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net> <AEEF16CD966829771@bos-ma11-17.ix.netcom.com> ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu (Ishir Bhan) wrote: > In article <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net>, John Kheit > <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> wrote: > >...often pukes on simple files... > Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX > by apps, not because of GX itself. This may well be so. But it's just not a problem encountered under NeXTSTEP with DPS. Also, many developers just don't want to use GX... And I'm not talking about ms that has an axe to grind. This is an issue that is just NOT an issue under NeXTSTEP with DPS. Things just work. You really don't even have to see DPS for many programming jobs and OpenStep just magically does things for you. GX may be technically the best thing of all time...but if it prevents me from doing simple things...it's functionality becomes questionable... However, GX on a more stable OS/platform maybe the cat's meow... Who knows... I can only go by experience... And NeXTSTEP w/ DPS has never given me a problem...I wish I could say the same about the QD and QD GX as well... -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: jabaker@grail.cba.csuohio.edu (jason) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: cmsg cancel <vohf9idd0.fsf@jlbaker.async.csuohio.edu> Control: cancel <vohf9idd0.fsf@jlbaker.async.csuohio.edu> Date: 1 Jan 1997 22:11:56 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <5aenfc$7jr@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> This article canceled.
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 18:07:14 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000101971807140001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net> <AEEF16CD966829771@bos-ma11-17.ix.netcom.com> <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: )If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. More than likely its a bug in a third-party printer driver. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 23:47:07 -0800 Organization: Northwest Link Message-ID: <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > Fundamentally everything GX draws can be drawn in Postscript, where just > shoving bits into a buffer, given enough time and effort Postscript could > be made to duplicate GX's results. The key points are that in most cases > its a *lot* more effort, and its not going to be anywhere near the speed. ... but don't let your bias get in the way... The point here is that anything GX does that OpenStep + DPS don't do could be moved into the existing OpenStep framework, leaving DPS alone. Or a seperate GX framework could be created for developers which wish to use it, again leaving the underlying DPS alone. In either case you get the added functionality of GX *and* the unified imaging model of D/PS. > Just using looking at the redraw speed of Illustrator vs. Lightning Draw. > (A version 1.0.x product, unlike Illustrator which is at version 6.0) this is pure FUD. Illustrator has a lot more features than LD. And you really have no way of knowing if LD is faster *because* it uses GX. > > )Nothing that can't be done, or haven't seen done with apps under > )NeXTSTEP. > > Sure it is, please tell me how you go about using a TrueType GX font's > built-in tables in OpenStep. It was a slightly rigged example ;) But GX's > layout manager does enable some *incredible* typographical stuff that > OpenStep's API does not do. Providing a GX-based text field in OpenStep > would enable all sorts of advanced formatting and typography capabilities. > Automatically, without a need to graft that functionality into OpenStep. Note that this proposal does not require that DPS be ripped out. > Again the issue isn't whether or not you can generate the bits to > display a certain effect, its *how* you generate them. yeah, and since ultimately it all gets rendered into PostScript for output, its pretty compelling that the onscreen representation also be in PS. > )No, what you write is COMPLETELY false. Using the EXACT same code > )to draw the screen and to print is the highest level of WYSIWYG > )possible...by definition. Period. So as long as Postscript printers > )are the norm, DPS will achieve the highest WYSIWYG fidelity. Your > )refusal to accept this is just blind. > > No it's not. If you use one of DPS' calls that isn't in Postscript, then > it won't print. The question is will the DPS3 engine support transparency > while printing to PSLevel2 printers. You can't have it both ways. DPS and GX both have features not found in PS level 2. No, the extra features won't print from DPS, neither will they from GX. The point is, do you work in one imaging model and output to another, or work and output in the same imaging model? > > )Applying transforms to the bitmaps does not require PSWraps or any > )such thing. Again, making a higher level class/kit structure for > )more automated control in OpenStep may well be the way to go. One > )can do this for DPS, just as easily as for GX. > > Actually you can't. You'd need to build a layer that would abstract PS' > procedural interface to something on the level of GX's object-oriented > one, then you could put on a higher level API. Again at a performance loss, > and when it comes right down to it, why bother? You're suggesting > reinventing a fairly large wheel. No, you are suggesting reinventing a fairly large wheel. DPS is already on the cart, GX is not. > If NuKernel is chosen *every* app will have to print via GX (unless they > can make their own postscript files and are on a network). This isn't a pardon me? how does the kernel affect this *at all*? > > True. :) I'm concerned about the rumors of them porting Mach. With all > of the different PowerMac architectures that's going to be an enormous > undertaking as well as a PR nightmare if only some PowerMacs can run the > new OS. Nukernel has been sitting around waiting to run something other > than Copland and CommonPoint for over a year now. If Next could get > OpenStep running on Solaris and NT it shouldn't be too hard to get it > running on Nukernel. Plus they get a bunch of ready and waiting APIs like > QD GX, QD 3D, Quicktime, OpenTransport, etc. the truth of this statement remains to be seen... -- ---> marke@nwlink.com
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 18:40:59 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000101971840590001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abl46$8h@precipice.fdn.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5abl46$8h@precipice.fdn.fr>, hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) wrote: )* setalpha )* composite )* compositerect )* alphaimage Will these work when printed? )PS Level II operator )-------------------- ) )* Setcolorspace ) )Level II known colorspaces : )- DeviceGray )- DeviceRGB )- DeviceCMYK )- CIEBasedABC ) where ABC can be : ) XYZ : CIE 1931 (XYZ) space ) RGB : well... RGB ) L*a*b* : CIE 1976 (L*a*b*) space ) YIQ : NTSC space (Never Twice the Same Color ;-) ) YUV : PAL and SECAM space )- CIEBasedA (basicly, a monochromatical version of CIEBasedABC) )- Pattern )- Indexed )- Separation (few usefull, for example to support In-Rip separation as PM6.5 does). All are supported in GX as well, plus HSV, HLS, and Yxy . All 3 component color spaces can have an alpha channel as well. (Which will print :)) )Now, you also want to change the alpha parameter of a particular image without )recalculating it, or modify a particular color component channel, no problem : It's not a matter of changing the actual color channels themselves (I knew PS could do that ;)) it's a matter of setting up a matrix that specifies how each channel in the source combines with every other channel in the destination. For instance can you make a CMYK bitmap draw subtractively (like transparent ink or paint) over any arbitrary background? This isn't a question as to whether or not the effect can be simulated with shape partitioning and doing the raw calculations yourself, but will DPS do it automatically? There's a couple little GX demos that draw 3 colored circles in a window. You can click and drag on these circles to move them around and depending on which demo is being run the circles will draw on top of each other additively or subtractively, i.e. the cyan magenta and yellow circles go to black where all three overlap, and the red, green, and blue circles go to white. It's a pretty simple demo, and it only takes one call in the code to change a shape's transfer mode. No matter what the background is or what the shape is, GX will make the correct calculations. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: younghoon KIL <ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Re: Calendar and scheduling apps Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:04:31 +0900 Organization: KORNET Message-ID: <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: timothy@acm.org Timothy R Mills wrote: > > What kind of calendar/schedule/group scheduling software exists for > NEXTSTEP? What are the features and costs? Is there anything besides > PencilMeIn? daily planner application - Chronographer 0.85 Dwight Everhart everhart@alterlife.com ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/demos/productivity/Chronographer.0.85.NIHS.b.tar.gz ftp://peanuts.leo.org/pub/comp/platforms/next/Tools/calendars/Chronographer.0.85.NIHS.b.tar.gz group scheduling - Pencil Me In http://www.sarrus.com/PencilMeIn.html http://www.sarrus.com/FTP.html
From: quinonez@ucla.edu (G. Quinonez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT boot sector changed with NT setup Date: 1 Jan 1997 23:34:00 GMT Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <5aes98$8ht@bolivia.earthlink.net> Hello fellow users. I have recently installed a small 200 MB NT partition on my NSFIP 3.3 system. Surprisingly it did not erase the NeXT boot sector. However, when I boot up and get the option of which OS to run, n is for NeXT and d does not take me into NT. Instead it got placed in the 1 partition. I would like to have NT booted with the "d" option. If I use the nextanswers solution to the deleted boot sector, will that solve the issue? Its not that big of a deal, but would be nice to have that setup. Thanks for your replies. Please respond to the email address below. Gerardo -- _____________________________________________ Gerardo Quinonez, MD quinonez@ucla.edu quinonez@earthlink.net quinonez@usa.net NeXTMail/SunMail Welcome http://emf.net/~ihouse/Alumni-pages/quinonez/
From: eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl (Eelco Houwink) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: 2 Jan 1997 08:21:27 GMT Organization: WorldCom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <199701020924551543635@p006.gor.euronet.nl> References: <AEE62125-47C3C@207.93.51.91> Benjamin Smith <benjs@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > There are some Windows advocates that are so ruggedly pro-Microsoft's tough > business, anti-competitive practices and have a general philosophy that MS > just competes fairly and Apple/NeXT/Microsoft all have the same agenda: to > make money. They don't see the degrees. They don't see how one company may > want to make huge margins but also has a higher standard to their design > and are creative or innovative and the other is primarily interested in > dominating market share and their products are a result of that desire to > dominate. That's the problem. No, that's not. The problem is that a company - whichever high standards it has - failing to market its innovation well, will keep struggling and in the end may cease to exist. While everybody focuses at the tech issues of the OpenMacStep-to-be-Next thing, the market is shaken because the beast even doesn't have its name, let alone its features set. -- Yours Sincerely, Eelco Houwink eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 19:35:24 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: )You really don't have to use DPS to code. One uses OpenStep and )that deals for most things for you. You are talking about an OO )api on top of a graphics engine w regard to GX... )DPS is that no )nothing graphics engine being driven by OpenStep's OO api. Which is part of the reason why GX has a better architecture. An Objective-C method dispatch is not as fast as one of GX's internal C dispatches. Depending on the operation OpenStep on DPS could waste a lot of time just handling method dispatches. Really the way to go is have a object-oriented low-level API that does its OOP in C, and makes wrapping a framework from a real object oriented language like Objective-C simple. )Well maybe it was designed to be excellent, but in practice it is )not... B/c in practice real people have problems getting GX to do )simple things. This has been hashed to death on the GX lists. As of 1.1.3 the problems people have using GX are almost invariably tied to either a bad third-party driver or a developer (usually Microsoft...) doing illegal and undocumented things in the Toolbox while printing. Apple can't really *do* anything about that except ask that they try to code properly. )> )And you CAN make all those things in DPS. I have yet to hear )> one )single feature that can be accomplished in GX that cannot )> be )duplicated in DPS. Fundamentally everything GX draws can be drawn in Postscript, where just shoving bits into a buffer, given enough time and effort Postscript could be made to duplicate GX's results. The key points are that in most cases its a *lot* more effort, and its not going to be anywhere near the speed. Just using looking at the redraw speed of Illustrator vs. Lightning Draw. (A version 1.0.x product, unlike Illustrator which is at version 6.0) )Nothing that can't be done, or haven't seen done with apps under )NeXTSTEP. Sure it is, please tell me how you go about using a TrueType GX font's built-in tables in OpenStep. It was a slightly rigged example ;) But GX's layout manager does enable some *incredible* typographical stuff that OpenStep's API does not do. Providing a GX-based text field in OpenStep would enable all sorts of advanced formatting and typography capabilities. Automatically, without a need to graft that functionality into OpenStep. )There was an app (Gosh what's the name) it let you do all these )smart font type things... Note, the app did them, not the font )itself. But the exact same result...b/c the intelligence was in )the OpenStep layer, instead of the font, but the net results were )much the same... (was it TouchType). Again the issue isn't whether or not you can generate the bits to display a certain effect, its *how* you generate them. )BECAUSE I REMOVED IT B/C OF STABILITY PROBLEMS. I've tried using )several times in several different versions and removed b/c each )time it resulted in printing problems. Specifically what were the problems, and which apps were being used? Garance who helps maintain )mac labs at RPI has made statements much to the same effect. If )you won't HEAR our real world experience and complaints, what am )I to do? GX does have real world problems in printing. If you happened to be using an MS app, then its most assuredly *not* GX's fault. MS does some really evil things in their code. Your gripe should be with them and not Apple. Adobe also does some skanky things and has a tendency to bypass whatever printing architecture is installed. (highly annoying) This is the reason PageMaker has problems. Apple can only bend so far to patch other people's bugs. Furthermore if you're interested in GX just download the GX Graphics extension. It doesn't alter the current printing architecture at all, yet allows all of the Typography, Graphics, and layout functions to work. )No, what you write is COMPLETELY false. Using the EXACT same code )to draw the screen and to print is the highest level of WYSIWYG )possible...by definition. Period. So as long as Postscript printers )are the norm, DPS will achieve the highest WYSIWYG fidelity. Your )refusal to accept this is just blind. No it's not. If you use one of DPS' calls that isn't in Postscript, then it won't print. The question is will the DPS3 engine support transparency while printing to PSLevel2 printers. )You could also just make classes to make primitives for you much )like GX does, and employ DPS to do it... And suffer a noticeable performance hit. )Applying transforms to the bitmaps does not require PSWraps or any )such thing. Again, making a higher level class/kit structure for )more automated control in OpenStep may well be the way to go. One )can do this for DPS, just as easily as for GX. Actually you can't. You'd need to build a layer that would abstract PS' procedural interface to something on the level of GX's object-oriented one, then you could put on a higher level API. Again at a performance loss, and when it comes right down to it, why bother? You're suggesting reinventing a fairly large wheel. )Actually, one can )probably move most of GX's functionality into that layer and allow )the api to driver either GX's 'painting' primitives or DPS's... That's what I suggested originally. Keep DPS around, but port a good number of the DPS UI widgets to GX (this isn't a wheel reinvention because GX will still provide some nifty features automatically) New widgets should try to use GX exclusively. GX can and has been ported to another architecture, it shouldn't be difficult moving it a couple more. Porting GX will probably be *much* easier than trying to duplicate its functionality in OpenStep. (It is *not* a small amount of code) )The above is true...again, DPS and PS have steadily been improving. )Things have changed RADICALLY to DPS since the days of NEXTSTEP )0.8, at least 6 or 7 updates of DPS and not one app breaks... When )D/PS3 comes along things ought to continue just working, transparencies )and all.... If you have a PSLevel3 driver. Otherwise OpenStep will have to updated to preprocess DPS files before sending them to a printer. Incidentally GX's printing architecture was designed for this sort of preprocessing, and there's a well documented and easy to use API for doing so. )DPS does compositing and color correction stuff as well. GX's OO )layer may well do so...nothing stops such fucntionality from being )incorporated into the OpenStep layer...allowing it to drive whatever )'imaging' model employed...DPS included... Nothing directly stops it, but a lot sure does impede it. GX has a *lot* of functionality in there. That's one of the reason's why Adobe doesn't like it, it gives you most of the tools necessary to get a Pagemaker, Photoshop, or Illustrator level app up and going very fast. (Probably faster than their own versions in some cases.) Putting most of these tools in OpenStep would just be a nightmare. )There is a staple of wordprocessing and DTP apps that are not, nor )do they plan to be... Actually now that the GX Graphics extension is out a lot more companies are looking at GX. It is a hell of a lot easier and safer to use than Quickdraw. The problem with the GX Graphics extension is that it takes some of the pressure off of those vendors who are making undocumented or flat out 'illegal' API calls to fix their code. If NuKernel is chosen *every* app will have to print via GX (unless they can make their own postscript files and are on a network). This isn't a problem for OpenStep apps, but it is for the few Mac vendors that haven't written GX-safe code. GX printer drivers will work unchanged under Nukernel, but Quickdraw-based ones probably will not. I also don't think Apple's going to pay Adobe for a license to use DPS as a rasterization engine for every copy of the OS they sell. That means that a whole bunch of new drivers might be needed. Users of 'unusual' output devices like plotters and fax modems will probably be out of luck also. )Something like Tailor, seemingly ideally )suited for such tasks have plans of REMOVING GX from the product... )It doesn't print reliably. They should have waited around and used the GX Graphics extension like Lari, Digerati, Paceworks etc. As far as I can tell what they really needed GX for was screen display. Really though Tailor since its a Postscript editor should have a real Postscript interpreter inside. Most apps however don't need to go anywhere near that close to actual Postscript code. )But must FOCUS and concentrate on )getting that port OUT... That is Focus #1, and I think we all )pretty much agree on that... :) True. :) I'm concerned about the rumors of them porting Mach. With all of the different PowerMac architectures that's going to be an enormous undertaking as well as a PR nightmare if only some PowerMacs can run the new OS. Nukernel has been sitting around waiting to run something other than Copland and CommonPoint for over a year now. If Next could get OpenStep running on Solaris and NT it shouldn't be too hard to get it running on Nukernel. Plus they get a bunch of ready and waiting APIs like QD GX, QD 3D, Quicktime, OpenTransport, etc. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 08:30:18 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5afrmq$g0b@news3.digex.net> References: <5afal1$g0b@news3.digex.net> <AEF0A11D-152FBF@198.68.42.213> "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > >> In the hundreds of calls that make up its API there are > >> probably less than 10 which take in Mac OS specific > >> structures. > >Hows this, DPS has none. > Are you saying that DPS does its own windows management on every > platform that it is ported to without feedback at any level from > the host OS? My. You're right. DPS was coded by gods, and I > mean of the religious kind, not programming. Nope, that's not what I meant at all... DPS has been ported to many different OS's (Sun, NeXT, and others)...so obviously it is not tied to any specific OS. -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 20:22:24 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000101972022240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <SHESS.97Jan1112047@howard.one.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <SHESS.97Jan1112047@howard.one.net>, shess@one.net (Scott Hess) wrote: )Bah, then you're both being closed-minded. You call DPS a "pain in )the butt" after looking at the syntax for, what, ten minutes? Two )hours? Three days? I've been programming almost exclusively NeXTSTEP )for eight years, and I've only had reason to program directly in )Postscript on a handful of occasions. So you don't use it much on a regular basis either ;) Really it all comes down to what kinds of apps one is writing. If one is doing graphics intensive work then I suspect that one might have to deal with DPS more than say someone doing database work. )And on those occasions, the capability of coding Postscript using one )of the simple tools out there (usually Yap) was a godsend. I could )test different options in seconds, directly from edit to run, no )compile-link. Actually, I've been doing the same thing in Prograph CPX :) Since Prograph's a visual language I don't even have to 'type' code :D )You once heard someone describe how they did something and it was an )involved process. And now you're extending that to everything on the )system? pswrap is a means of taking small often-used snippets of )Postscript code and bundling them into a predigested format so that )they run quickly. Anyone who's bundling bitmaps into a pswrap needs )some _serious_ hospitalization! I would think it would depend on the size of the bitmap. You know a little 24x24 iconlet couldn't hurt ;) But in all seriousness the point was that in many cases GX wouldn't have forced you to make a discrimination between vector and bitmaps shapes due to size and computation overhead. Just toss 'em all in a picture shape and GX does the right thing. Transforms , clips, rasterizes, caches etc. automatically. *Very* little effort plus very good speed :) )And "inherently inefficient" is a tough old nut to crack. I didn't mean the actual steps involved I meant what was going on system call wise. Every time that graphic gets redrawn it has to be retransformed and rerasterized by DPS. In GX most of the computations are saved and don't have to be applied again. Not only are you cutting down on function call over head, you're taking advantage of a caching architecture that automatically handles all of the different cases, etc. for you. )Perhaps it was only ever displayed )once, so nobody cared whether the speed of the second display was no )faster. In any case, just because one person did something in an )"inherently inefficient" manner doesn't mean that you are _forced_ to )do so. No, but it does show why Lightning Draw's a *LOT* faster than Illustrator at redraws. )I have no idea if GX is as awesome as you say it is. I _do_ know, )though, that it's not as much more awesome than DPS as you say it is, )because _nothing_ out there is that much more awesome than DPS. I )won't claim that DPS is the ultimate in display technology, but it's )pretty damned good. Yep, it's very versatile and definitely better than the vast majority of imaging APIs, but unless you're working with raw Postscript code constantly and out of necessity its definitely harder to use and if Illustrator's a good indicator much slower to use also. Go to http://devworld.apple.com and peruse some of the GX inside Macs. The Programmer's overview is a decent place to start, but you don't really get a handle on its coolness until you check out the Graphics, Objects, or Typography manuals. There's a *lot* of stuff in the API. -Eric Happy New Year folks :) -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: longsine@platinum.com (Gary W. Longsine) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Where to go Macinstep Date: 2 Jan 1997 01:39:43 GMT Organization: PLATINUM technology, inc. (though i speak for myself only) Message-ID: <5af3kv$f0l@news.platinum.com> References: <59m249$r70@www.univie.ac.at> <marcr-ya023480002612962000310001@news.tiac.net> Cc: marcr@tiac.net In <marcr-ya023480002612962000310001@news.tiac.net> Marc wrote: > Michael Alexander, a9050756@unet.univie.ac.at () wrote: > > [snip] > > I hope they will go with the obvious of using Mach 3, in a let's say enabled > > for two a processor configuration initially. Giving it 'plug&play' type > > processor add on with all the task-level tools could be in a later release. > > Things appear more difficult with all the BSD 4.3 around it; I guess all work > > on it at NeXT has stopped some time ago and everything from sendmail to lpd > > need updates. I'm wondering if CMU people are still doing work on Mach. > [snip] > > What about Apple's NuKernal? I understand that Apple looked at Mach 3.0 and > decided to write their own. From what I know, it's up and running on all > PowerMac hardware and would solve the problem of device drivers. NuKernal > seems like the best bet. Moving everything from Mach and onto a prototype kernel from Apple R&D would take much, much longer than finishing the NeXT PowerPC port and writing device drivers. When NeXT moved off the '040 and onto intel, sparc, and pa-risc, they wrote a device driver kit as their first act. They now pump out new drivers pretty quickly. I don't see this as a big issue. /gary -- Gary W. Longsine, Systems Engineer | ____/| WebObjects: PLATINUM Technologies, Inc. | \ o.O| because life is longsine@platinum.com (NeXTmail | =(_)= too short for (612) 688-3033 x7814 & MIME) |. U Lotus Notes.
From: liuyi@cs.utexas.edu (Yi Liu) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Painfully Slow Text Scrolling in ROM Monitor on ND Turbo Cube Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc Date: 2 Jan 1997 03:35:49 -0600 Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin Message-ID: <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu> Ident-User: liuyi Summary: Slow Text Scrolling Prob. in ROM Monitor on ND Turbo Cube Keywords: Text Scrolling, ND, Cube, Turbo [ Crosspost: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,] [ comp.sys.next.sysadmin ] [ Followup: comp.sys.next.misc ] I recently got a ND Turbo Cube. It runs everything perfectly except for this problem: Problem: When booting in verbose mode, the text scrolls very slowly line-by-line from bottom to top, kind of like watching a terminal connected via 2400 baud modem, but felt a lot slower and a lot more annoying. HW + SW: 040 33MHz ND Cube, 32MB on ND, 32MB on 040, all simms non-parity 70ns, running NS3.3, 1 200MB boot + 1 3.2GB HDs. I'd never owned a ND Turbo Cube or any Color motorola hardware before. But compared to my 040 33MHz slab whose ROM monitor scrolls text fast and smoothly --- jump scroll (?), the ND Turbo Cube's text scroll is more like a snail scroll. I tried playing with "p" command in the ROM monitor, but short of switching off the "verbose" mode, nothing seems to affect this behavior. On top of this, everything else runs fine with visually comparable speed to the Turbo slab once the machine boots up. So my question: Is this a normal behavior in the ROM monitor on the ND Turbo Cube? Thanks! liuyi -- Realife: Liu, Yi <liuyi@anet-dfw.com> | <liuyi@usa.net> Dallas, TX
From: mthomas7@ix.netcom.com (Michael Thomas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Useful software, mono/color Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 21:24:41 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <mthomas7-0101972124420001@nyc-ny11-17.ix.netcom.com> References: <jak-ya023680002912960132500001@news.asu.edu> In article <jak-ya023680002912960132500001@news.asu.edu>, jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) wrote: > I'm thinking of getting a NeXTstation, and would like to know what kind of > apps are out there that can make it a useful machine to me(as opposed to a > beautiful example of industrial design sitting on my desk). > > The categories of software in which I am interested: > > DTP (something like Quark, maybe?) > all sorts of graphics (mostly bitmapped, little vector) including 3D > CAD/something like formZ > webdesign > light web/mailserver software? > and of course internet surfing (mail, newsgroups, www). > > Are there any notable apps in these categories? Especially shareware, of > course. And a way to transfer files to/from a Mac. > > > Also, please note whether any such apps would want color. I'd need to > justify a color NeXTstation (I'm leaning toward mono). > > Sorry if this asks for a lot of info, but I'd appreciate it greatly. > > thanks > john > > --- - ------- ------- > Music is a higher revelation than philosophy. - Beethoven > > jak@asu.edu > http://www.public.asu.edu/~jkestner/ John, For DTP track down a copy of Aldus Virtuoso (preferably v 2, AKA "Virtuoso Gold). It's Freehand 4 for NeXT and will export files as Freehand 3, various Illustrator formats and I forget what else for the Mac. Plus, it'll let you see all those Postscript effects you have to take on faith with a Mac. One thing to remember: NeXT (or at least the scanner I used) saves its TIFF scans in a Windows flavor. If you try to use them in a Mac, open them from within Photoshop and save as Mac TIFFs. For retouch, WetPaint could show Photoshop a few things about interface design, though it lacks a "magic wand". I hear good things about Tiffany, too. Omniweb from Lighthouse Design is a nice Netscape browser for NeXT. As for hardware, you might really consider a more modern Pentium running NeXTstep. Plain wrapper, but same soul. And a ton faster since the old color blackware equals a Quadra 9-something. Mike Thomas (Mac 7500 and NeXT Turbo Color station)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701012035.MAA09927@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: b21410304c6b059f9b90849d8fa79fb8 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 97 15:35:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! References: b21410304c6b059f9b90849d8fa79fb8 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Geez, I go out of town for a few days and look what happens.... TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701012126.NAA16689@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: 5d99695abe55d012b2aedb9c65f5bf96 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 97 16:26:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: 5d99695abe55d012b2aedb9c65f5bf96 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Original Date: 24 Dec 1996 02:24:46 GMT > Why? Because NeXTSTEP sells to too few people, so the price > has to be high to recoup the development costs. And of course, > the reason it sells to too few people is that so many people > can not afford the high price. Catch-22 all over again..... > Given the kind of sales figures that Apple has, the price of > deploying NeXTSTEP is going to go way way down. This makes > many people much happier with it. This, of course, is great news. I do hope to see it come to fruition... I might be able to use ApPLEStep (my vote for the new OS's name ;-) some years down the road. TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 03:35:49 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > )Well maybe it was designed to be excellent, but in practice it > is )not... B/c in practice real people have problems getting GX > to do )simple things. > This has been hashed to death on the GX lists. As of 1.1.3 > the problems people have using GX are almost invariably tied > to either a bad third-party driver or a developer (usually > Microsoft...) doing illegal and undocumented things in the > Toolbox while printing. Apple can't really *do* anything about > that except ask that they try to code properly. Well you rehashing things hasn't solved problems for real users in the real world. DPS works for ALL apps without any problems under NEXTSTEP. Period. Those apps, even since the days of 1.0 continue to work w/o problems even though DPS has been updated perhaps over a dozen times; including a major update to level 2. > )Nothing that can't be done, or haven't seen done with apps under > )NeXTSTEP. > Sure it is, please tell me how you go about using a TrueType > GX font's built-in tables in OpenStep. It was a slightly rigged > example ;) But GX's layout manager does enable some *incredible* > typographical stuff that OpenStep's API does not do. Providing > a GX-based text field in OpenStep would enable all sorts of > advanced formatting and typography capabilities. Automatically, > without a need to graft that functionality into OpenStep. Actually, I think OPENSTEP 4.x uses truetype...I haven't had a need to try it, so perhaps someone who has will tell us about their experiences. Furthermore, the TextObject under OpenStep does those things, like ligatures, kerning, et. al. That functionality is no more 'grafted' onto OpenStep than it is 'grafted' onto GX's OO api. > )BECAUSE I REMOVED IT B/C OF STABILITY PROBLEMS. I've tried > using )several times in several different versions and removed > b/c each )time it resulted in printing problems. > Specifically what were the problems, and which apps were being > used? Nothing fancy. Often simple memos wouldn't print in ms word. I'd remove the extension, viola, it'd print. > Garance who helps maintain > )mac labs at RPI has made statements much to the same effect. > If )you won't HEAR our real world experience and complaints, what > am )I to do? GX does have real world problems in printing. > If you happened to be using an MS app, then its most assuredly > *not* GX's fault. MS does some really evil things in their > code. Your gripe should be with them and not Apple. Adobe also > does some skanky things and has a tendency to bypass whatever > printing architecture is installed. (highly annoying) This is > the reason PageMaker has problems. Apple can only bend so far > to patch other people's bugs. True, ms blows big fat chunks. The PS their drivers produce are an abomination. But other apps other than ms word have problems too. I don't put it past ms to purposefully sabotage a technology such as gx for lord knows what purpose... However, the problems are not limited to ms products. Also, considering ms word is the most popular wp on the mac...it really seems that there should be something apple will do to work with it...even if it's to disable itself while working with apps that are known to be incompatible...like word... > )No, what you write is COMPLETELY false. Using the EXACT same > code )to draw the screen and to print is the highest level of > WYSIWYG )possible...by definition. Period. So as long as > Postscript printers )are the norm, DPS will achieve the highest > WYSIWYG fidelity. Your )refusal to accept this is just blind. > No it's not. If you use one of DPS' calls that isn't in > Postscript, then it won't print. The question is will the DPS3 > engine support transparency while printing to PSLevel2 printers. Other than transparencies...considering most people haven't EVER used transparencies since they dont use DPS...it's not a problem. And with D/PS3 all features should work. Still doesn't change things...you can try to ignore reality, holding your breath and shaking your head all you like. DPS & PS as a unified imaging model produce the highest fidelity WYSIWYG possible... Until GX printers are common, that will stay the same. > )You could also just make classes to make primitives for you much > )like GX does, and employ DPS to do it... > And suffer a noticeable performance hit. Better a performance hit and actually be able to print! > )Applying transforms to the bitmaps does not require PSWraps or > any )such thing. Again, making a higher level class/kit structure > for )more automated control in OpenStep may well be the way to > go. One )can do this for DPS, just as easily as for GX. > Actually you can't. You'd need to build a layer that would > abstract PS' procedural interface to something on the level > of GX's object-oriented one, then you could put on a higher > level API. Again at a performance loss, and when it comes > right down to it, why bother? You're suggesting reinventing > a fairly large wheel. Actually you can. They likely will do just that. B/C it's easier than ripping things out and re-implementing you're even larger wheel. And again, any performance loss is well worth the added bonuse of actually being able to print. > )Actually, one can )probably move most of GX's functionality into > that layer and allow )the api to driver either GX's 'painting' > primitives or DPS's... > That's what I suggested originally. Keep DPS around, but port > a good number of the DPS UI widgets to GX (this isn't a wheel > reinvention because GX will still provide some nifty features > automatically) New widgets should try to use GX exclusively. > GX can and has been ported to another architecture, it shouldn't > be difficult moving it a couple more. Porting GX will probably > be *much* easier than trying to duplicate its functionality > in OpenStep. (It is *not* a small amount of code) Sure, whenever we port to GX it's not a wheel invention but the other way around is...that's very reasonable. DPS also has been ported to MANY platforms, even more than GX...so what. Quite the contrary, considering GX's api and code are available to Apple/NEXT, putting it's functionality into OpenStep will be far easier than ripping out DPS. That's likely the reality, no matter how unpleasant for you... > )The above is true...again, DPS and PS have steadily been improving. > )Things have changed RADICALLY to DPS since the days of NEXTSTEP > )0.8, at least 6 or 7 updates of DPS and not one app breaks... > When )D/PS3 comes along things ought to continue just working, > transparencies )and all.... > If you have a PSLevel3 driver. Otherwise OpenStep will have > to updated to preprocess DPS files before sending them to a > printer. Incidentally GX's printing architecture was designed > for this sort of preprocessing, and there's a well documented > and easy to use API for doing so. A trivial thing relative to ripping out DPS for GX. These tiny features you keep pointing to are relatively miniscule and trivial to make happen with OpenStep and DPS, as compared to ripping out DPS and putting in GX. > )DPS does compositing and color correction stuff as well. GX's > OO )layer may well do so...nothing stops such fucntionality from > being )incorporated into the OpenStep layer...allowing it to > drive whatever )'imaging' model employed...DPS included... > Nothing directly stops it, but a lot sure does impede it. GX > has a *lot* of functionality in there. That's one of the > reason's why Adobe doesn't like it, it gives you most of the > tools necessary to get a Pagemaker, Photoshop, or Illustrator > level app up and going very fast. (Probably faster than their > own versions in some cases.) Putting most of these tools in > OpenStep would just be a nightmare. Puhleez, how long have you worked with OpenStep??? Obviously not very long if you think replacing DPS with GX would be easier than putting in a couple of classes to reproduce GX's functionality. Furthermore, I don't know why adobe does things, and likely you really dont know either and are just speculating...so allow me to speculate a bit... they may do so b/c they believe their way of doing things is genuinly better. It being so or not, is really a debatable question... > )There is a staple of wordprocessing and DTP apps that are not, > nor )do they plan to be... > If NuKernel is chosen *every* app will have to print via GX > (unless they can make their own postscript files and are on > a network). This isn't a problem for OpenStep apps, but it is > for the few Mac vendors that haven't written GX-safe code. GX > printer drivers will work unchanged under Nukernel, but > Quickdraw-based ones probably will not. I also don't think > Apple's going to pay Adobe for a license to use DPS as a > rasterization engine for every copy of the OS they sell. That > means that a whole bunch of new drivers might be needed. Users > of 'unusual' output devices like plotters and fax modems will > probably be out of luck also. I've been printing to my fax, making it a full PS device, for years. I have no need for plotting, but one of my friends has a huge one that works just fine with PS as well. Having a kernel in no way MANDATES the use of GX. That is silly. > )Something like Tailor, seemingly ideally )suited for such tasks > have plans of REMOVING GX from the product... )It doesn't print > reliably. > They should have waited around and used the GX Graphics > extension like Lari, Digerati, Paceworks etc. As far as I can > tell what they really needed GX for was screen display. Really > though Tailor since its a Postscript editor should have a real > Postscript interpreter inside. Most apps however don't need > to go anywhere near that close to actual Postscript code. Regardless, they are talking about REMOVING it. And many common apps puke with GX for simple tasks. That's today's reality. > )But must FOCUS and concentrate on )getting that port OUT... > That is Focus #1, and I think we all )pretty much agree on that... > :) > True. :) I'm concerned about the rumors of them porting Mach. > With all of the different PowerMac architectures that's going > to be an enormous undertaking as well as a PR nightmare if > only some PowerMacs can run the new OS. Nukernel has been > sitting around waiting to run something other than Copland > and CommonPoint for over a year now. If Next could get OpenStep > running on Solaris and NT it shouldn't be too hard to get it > running on Nukernel. Plus they get a bunch of ready and waiting > APIs like QD GX, QD 3D, Quicktime, OpenTransport, etc. Um, Mach is HIGHLY portable, and easily ported. That was one of it's design goals... And more than a goal, that is an implementation reality. Unlike NT, Mach works well on either big or small endian machines. NeXT, with FAR lesser resources than apple or ms, has managed to port the OS on many different platforms. Mach is super swell. I have no problems with NuKernel...If it's used, fantastic. If Mach3.0 is used, fantastic. Mach 3.0 has been around a while, and is also waiting around via mkLinux on apple hardware.... I personally don't care what they use...all the kernels are really great. Even the currnet one used by NeXT is very efficient, and they can enable it to do SMP... Considering Avie's background in this field, I completely trust his judgement. -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 03:39:13 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5afal1$g0b@news3.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <5a515o$lrj@news.wco.com> <rex-ya023080003012961832350001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > In article <5a515o$lrj@news.wco.com>, mpaque@wco.com (Mike > Paquette) wrote: )It all depends. What year did you want OPENSTEP > for MacIntosh to )ship? ) )1) Display PostScript is part > of the OPENSTEP spec. )2) Existing OPENSTEP/NEXTSTEP apps > rely on it for a unified )printing and display model on all > supported platforms and )architectures. > )Revising the underlying graphics model and window system for > OPENSTEP )might have significant impact on the ship date for a > finished product. > Very true. Altering the OpenStep spec. in any significant way > with regards to GX is a long term project. WHERE THE HECK DO YOU GET THIS FUD!!! This is utterly false. Have you ever done any work in OpenStep? If not, stop spreading FUD. If you have, please tell us why this is so. Jeez, what a bunch of hooey... > )I'm not sure I'd want to consider it for the initial release > unless )it's a known working solution on a significant portion > of the )platforms that NeXT supports. > )Has QuickDraw GX been implemented on any platforms other than > the )MacIntosh? (I'm not aware of any, but I haven't been following > this )very closely.) > Apple has a windows version running but they've been rather > secretive about it. Though they have recently announced a > product, Apple Electrifier for Windows, which requires GX to > run. GX in general has very few dependencies on the Mac OS. > In the hundreds of calls that make up its API there are probably > less than 10 which take in Mac OS specific structures. Hows this, DPS has none. -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: "Frank Chu" <chu@ipoline.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 2 Jan 1997 03:42:56 GMT Organization: InterPacific Online Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. P.S. Flames welcome.
From: Timothy R Mills <timothy@acm.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Calendar and scheduling apps Date: 2 Jan 1997 01:47:35 GMT Organization: Vnet Internet Access, Inc. Message-ID: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> Keywords: calendar, schedule What kind of calendar/schedule/group scheduling software exists for NEXTSTEP? What are the features and costs? Is there anything besides PencilMeIn? Please email me with any details and contacts. Thanks. Timothy -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Mills 2500 Innsbrook Road timothy@acm.org Charlotte, NC 28226 (NeXT/MIME/ASCII) phone: 704-442-1141 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jison@ucs.indiana.edu (james samuel ison) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 2 Jan 1997 04:36:50 GMT Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington Message-ID: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> NNTP-Posting-User: 1073745024 Um. call your Crack dealer and tell him to stop selling you the cheap stuff. Frank Chu (chu@ipoline.com) wrote: : I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since : it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly : no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) : running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance : or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache : onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only : half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. : : P.S. Flames welcome. -- ---- "Queens Don't Make Bargains"--Lewis Carroll. James S. Ison jison@ucs.indiana.edu University Computing Services/DSL --Consultant --Web Master
From: john_zollinger@arkona.com (John Zollinger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 04:53:13 GMT Organization: Arkona, LLC Message-ID: <32cb3a67.84938545@news.xmission.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net> <5aejj6$so@wanda.vf.pond.com> russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: >In article <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net>, >John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> wrote: >}Bob Felts <wrf3@mindspring.com> wrote: >} >}] In article <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com>, >}john_zollinger@arkona.com >}] wrote: >}] >}] | russotto@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote: >}] | > Or, in other words: If NextStep is so great, why didn't >}] | > it succeed the first time? >}] | >}] | Marketing. >}] | >}] | With Apple's marketing prowess and installed base, who knows what >}] | may happen. >}] >}] Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is >}] an oxymoron? >} >}I was getting ready to reply with a similar "What?!". But after I >}stopped laughing I thought I'd check the replies that had already been >}made, and yours pretty much sums it up. >} >}"Apple's marketing prowess" - does anybody besides me think this is >}suitable for posting in rec.humor? > >Yes. Ok, ok. So "prowess" was a bad choice of words. I was thinking of them compared to NeXT. :-) Perhaps, "muscle" would have been a better word. John Zollinger Software Engineering Director Arkona, LLC john_zollinger@arkona.com
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:05:00 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com>, marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: )In article <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, )rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: )... but don't let your bias get in the way... The point here is that )anything GX does that OpenStep + DPS don't do could be moved into the )existing OpenStep framework, leaving DPS alone. Or a seperate GX framework )could be created for developers which wish to use it, again leaving the )underlying DPS alone. In either case you get the added functionality of GX )*and* the unified imaging model of D/PS. The latter of which is what I've been advocating from day one. DPS should stay right where it is. GX however should be integrated because it *is* a better technology for most developers and users. I'm talking about 2D rendering now not printing. Now it does have a good printing model also, but its functionality is less important to users than that of the graphics engine. )> Just using looking at the redraw speed of Illustrator vs. Lightning Draw. )> (A version 1.0.x product, unlike Illustrator which is at version 6.0) ) )this is pure FUD. Illustrator has a lot more features than LD. Actually you know one would think that at first, but GX gives LD some incredible flexibility. I own both and LD lets me get a lot of the effects I want sooner and with less work. As far as features go Illustrator can not touch LD GX in terms of color handling or graphics redraw speed. Text handling is somewhat close. I mean please show me how to take the words 'Burn In' colored with a bright red and black vertical gradient and apply just its saturation value to all underlying shapes in Illustrator? (Its actually a very cool and dare I say useful effect) Furthermore what if I want to or need to drag that text around to reposition it? Illustrator just sucks at stuff like this. )And you )really have no way of knowing if LD is faster *because* it uses GX. One test I did a while back was to see if a GX PDD file displayed faster than an Acrobat file. Well I printed the Acrobat file to a postscript file ran it through GX Maker and launched the resulting GX PDD file in a GX PDD viewer. (might have been simple text.) It rendered the graphics noticeably faster than the original Acrobat version, was resolution independent like the Acrobat version, and was actually *smaller* in size than the Acrobat version. If Adobe has some wickedly fast and very portable DPS engine why aren't they using it in their Postscript-based Mac apps? )Note that this proposal does not require that DPS be ripped out. John in his delusional rants some how believes that I want DPS to be ripped out. That's just silly, the idea here is to *add* features to the OS. I personally *want* to have DPS around. There are a lot research papers in PS format and I'd rather not wait for GX Maker to chug through them. (Conversion is *not* a fast process...) However I do not want to see Apple base their new GUI on it because they've got a better in house alternative. That in no way implies that DPS has to be ripped out. All I'm talking about are some new subclasses. )yeah, and since ultimately it all gets rendered into PostScript for )output, its pretty compelling that the onscreen representation also be in )PS. Not that compelling for most users. Speed is more important, furthermore as long as it looks right coming out, most could care less. )You can't have it both ways. DPS and GX both have features not found in PS )level 2. No, the extra features won't print from DPS, neither will they )from GX. Sure they will :) I *guarantee* that if I draw a transparent circle over a bitmap on screen and then print it out with GX to my Postscript printer, that transparency will be preserved. If I wrote the equivalent code in DPS it would *not*. GX does the appropriate preprocessing of the Postscript output. *NOT* a trivial task mind you and something you would have to do yourself to convert the DPS code into printable PS code. You can say that transparency's not used much, but it could very well be because your imaging system makes handling it difficult. (Also processors are only now just becoming fast enough to handle large amounts of transparent layered graphics in real time.) )The point is, do you work in one imaging model and output to )another, or work and output in the same imaging model? Considering that most Mac users have non-PS printers, even if they had DPS they'd be outputting to a different imaging model. The point is that why should you the developer or user need to know or care what imaging model is being used by your output device? GX always uses the appropriate imaging model for a given output device. API-wise you're presented with a clean, fast, and flexible object-oriented system. If you make a circle that's an inch in diameter on the screen it'll be an inch when you print it out with GX. Geometry-wise WYSIWYG display is really not all that hard to achieve with a good display engine, i.e. there are far more compelling reasons to keep DPS around than just WYSIWYG display. The real tricky stuff lies in color-matching, half-toning, font-handling etc. In short I'd rather work with one fast and flexible imaging system that can automatically handle whatever extra processing is needed in order to recreate on a given output device what I made on the screen. Incidentally GX produces much better output for Quickdraw-based printers than the old architecture does. Graphics that used to be rendered at 72 dpi can now be rendered at the 360 or 720 dpi that most inkjets support for free. This is made possible in part because of the hidden GX 'codec' present in Quicktime 2.1 and above. It allows any app that can display a PICT file to also display and print resolution independent vector graphics. It's pretty cool and totally transparent to the user. You can also make resolution independent Quicktime movies. )No, you are suggesting reinventing a fairly large wheel. DPS is already on )the cart, GX is not. How hard is it to make a subclass of an OpenStep view and attach a GX viewport to it? GX only wants a pointer to a buffer to draw in. Probably a weekend's work if that. How hard is it write code for scrollbar or window frame subclasses that use GX instead of DPS to draw the graphics? I can tell you its probably a lot easier than implementing say caching or transfer modes for DPS calls. )pardon me? how does the kernel affect this *at all*? The old Mac printing architecture did not work in Copland's (Nukernel's) compatibility box. GX's was designed as the next generation one to replace it. It would emulate the classic printing architecture like it does under 7.x now and thus provide non-GX apps a way to print. The only way Apple can get drivers for the millions of non-postscript printers out there would be: 1. Get a mass license for Adobe's DPS printer rasterizer and whatever other software they need to drive the non-PS printers out there. 2. Implement trap-patching and the old extension architecture in the compatibility box. 3. Use GX drivers. Mach only worsens things by requiring the porting of the compatibility box to it and the possible porting of GX's printing architecture if option 3 is chosen. If option 2 is chosen then the compatibility box will have to be substantially updated. (It'd also be a hell of a lot slower and *much* more unstable) Option 1 could be very expensive. OpenStep's printing architecture is probably very nice but there is a severe driver issue that Apple's going to have to address if they want Mac users to be able to print to non-PS printers from within Mac apps under the new OS. You can't exactly dump a Postscript file to a Stylewriter and expect it to print. )the truth of this statement remains to be seen... Yep, just a few more days and 'something' will be revealed. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: help@spry.com Organization: Self Help Corp Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <borra.5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> Control: cancel <5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> References: <5ackun$5g3@chile.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 12:41:19 +0100 EMP spam cancelled by hweede@berlin.snafu.de. The Breidbart index was 494. See report "totalmarketing" in news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Subject was: FREE EDUCATIONAL VIDEO/CDs.
From: frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 2 Jan 1997 12:07:43 GMT Organization: NO ORGANIZATION, INC. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ag8ef$t2o@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> Cc: chu@ipoline.com In <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> "Frank Chu" wrote: > I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since > it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly > no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) > running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance > or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache > onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only > half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. > Ah, education, one can see the warm shine of wisdom... Get some brain between your ears, then see some benchmark reports. A PPC603e may easily blow away a MMX Pentium at the same clock. A PPC604e can do the same for the PPro. As usual the problem is the compiler technology, the best RISC cpu is scrap metal when the machine code isn't fully optimized for it. So your millage may vary. -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
From: tedl@top.net (Ted Leonard) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 23:40:03 -0600 Organization: IDT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <tedl-ya02408000R0101972340030001@news.top.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Frank Chu (chu@ipoline.com) wrote: >: I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since >: it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly >: no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) >: running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance >: or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache >: onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only >: half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. This is the sort of thing that happens when people let their 12 year olds play with their computer. > >: P.S. Flames welcome. Flames welcome? More like flames inevitable. -- Ted Leonard tedl@top.net If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started.
From: tfs@gravity.science.gmu.edu ( Tim) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: GX, and why it sucks, or is wonderful. WAS: (Will Apple release ...) Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,alt.flame Date: 1 Jan 1997 13:44:53 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax Va. Sender: tfs@vampire.science.gmu.edu Message-ID: <5adpol$apr@portal.gmu.edu> References: <AEEDB2AD-1417B7@199.183.202.57> <AEEDAA27-34A55@198.68.42.169> <AEEEB9119668197F25@bos-ma9-12.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Summary: idiots! You can't post right to save your asses In article <AEEEB9119668197F25@bos-ma9-12.ix.netcom.com>, Ishir Bhan <ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu> wrote: >In article <AEEDAA27-34A55@198.68.42.169>, >"Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > >>WHich newsgroup are you reading this from? > >I'm reading it from comp.sys.next.advocacy (which seems to be the primary >source for discussions on the new OS these days), but my point was that we >have already established here that it would be nice if Apple put in GX at >some point in the future. Rather than trying to convince the newsgroups' >readers of the benefits of GX, it might be better to communicate directly >with Apple. Yea, but you're posting in these groups, with this Subject: #REe: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? #Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac. \-(1) + misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys. -(1) + mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next. -(1)--(1)--[1] + advocacy Can you, and everyone else, PLEASE try to yank these endless GX flamewars OUT of the misc groups?? I doubt Lawson will, as he seems to be a total Spam King about GX, but frankly the inappropriate crossposting, and Subject lines that have nothing to do with reality are totaly annoying and tiresome, even IN the advocacy groups, much less seeing the same garbage in the misc groups. I'm expecting a "Make Money Fast With GX" post from Lawson any day now posted to most of the newsgroups on the net, and chances are, it'll just make things even worse, because the same people will argue with him with the same CLUELESS crossposting. Please, TRY to develop a clue about what groups you're posting to, Take things OUT of the "Followup-To:" line that shouldn't be in it, and consider changing the Subject line to something that reflects your actual subject! It's NOT that hard. For people who are arguing technical points, you'd think the mastery of basic usenet wouldn't be too tough. Lawson: If you are going to insist on taking on all comers in your advocacy of GX, PLEASE try to use appropriate followups. You're WAY out of hand on this stuff, and I don't know about other people, but I'm starting to hate GX sight unseen simply because of the stupid postings I'm seeing day after day after day to the wrong places with the wrong subjects. There's also a thing called "Email" (GASP), and you could try arguing about this drivel there... Me . -- ________________________________________________________________ tfs@vampire.science.gmu.edu (NeXTmail, MIME) Tim Scanlon tfs@epic.org (PGP key aval.) crypto is good Seal Technologies Inc. I own my own words
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 1 Jan 1997 23:05:10 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF0A11D-152FBF@198.68.42.213> References: <5afal1$g0b@news3.digex.net> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> In the hundreds of calls that make up its API there are probably >> less than 10 which take in Mac OS specific structures. > >Hows this, DPS has none. Are you saying that DPS does its own windows management on every platform that it is ported to without feedback at any level from the host OS? My. You're right. DPS was coded by gods, and I mean of the religious kind, not programming. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 04:40:47 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: )rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: )Well you rehashing things hasn't solved problems for real users in )the real world. Actually GX has solved a lot of problems for users such as printing at the highest DPI possible on Quickdraw-based printers. )Actually, I think OPENSTEP 4.x uses truetype...I haven't had a need )to try it, so perhaps someone who has will tell us about their )experiences. TrueType GX has quite a bit more in it than base TrueType, i.e. No incarnation of DPS and OpenStep can take advantage of its features. )Furthermore, the TextObject under OpenStep does those things, like )ligatures, kerning, et. al. That functionality is no more 'grafted' )onto OpenStep than it is 'grafted' onto GX's OO api. It's a hell of a lot more than just ligatures and kerning. )Nothing fancy. Often simple memos wouldn't print in ms word. I'd )remove the extension, viola, it'd print. Ah, Word. Bingo, there's your problem. Nisus, WordPerfect, and every other word processor I've tried on the Mac print just fine with GX. )True, ms blows big fat chunks. The PS their drivers produce are )an abomination. But other apps other than ms word have problems )too. Let me guess, Adobe apps? ) I don't put it past ms to purposefully sabotage a technology )such as gx for lord knows what purpose... It's not sabotage it's ineptitude and a crappy development environment. )However, the problems )are not limited to ms products. Also, considering ms word is the )most popular wp on the mac...it really seems that there should be )something apple will do to work with it...even if it's to disable )itself while working with apps that are known to be incompatible...like )word... That would require GX's printing architecture yanking itself out putting the old printing architecture back in printing, and then kicking it out again when its done. Trust me, that's *not* a feasible plan. )Other than transparencies...considering most people haven't EVER )used transparencies since they dont use DPS...it's not a problem. True, but it makes your claim about DPS being WYSIWYG false. It's only WYSIWYG most of the time. Just like GX. ) Until GX )printers are common, that will stay the same. GX doesn't need GX specific printers the Postscript it makes is quite good. Best of all you never have to nor need to see it. ))Better a performance hit and actually be able to print! Here let's go over this again: GX GRAPHICS IS SEPARATE FROM GX PRINTING!!!!!!! It's an entirely separate init and shared library. If for some reason Apple can not get the Printing section going they can still integrate the Graphics section. )Actually you can. They likely will do just that. B/C it's easier )than ripping things out and re-implementing you're even larger )wheel. Did I say rip out DPS??????? ****NO**** I said integrate GX into the OpenStep API as an alternative imaging model and leave DPS where it is. I also said that Apple should place more emphasis on it and QTML when designing additions to their new OS. Writing a few widget classes that use GX is a *FAR* easier task than trying to reproduce GX's functionality in OpenStep. I mean do you really care if some new app uses GX instead of DPS to draw its text field??? As long as its faster and provides better features you should be happy. )Puhleez, how long have you worked with OpenStep??? Obviously not )very long if you think replacing DPS with GX would be easier than )putting in a couple of classes to reproduce GX's functionality. You'd need a *lot* more than just a couple of classes. Furthermore they'd be totally unnecessary classes if they just integrated GX analogs of OpenStep widgets. )I've been printing to my fax, making it a full PS device, for years. )I have no need for plotting, but one of my friends has a huge one )that works just fine with PS as well. Having a kernel in no way )MANDATES the use of GX. That is silly. Mandates no, but a lack of drivers for the thousands of Quickdraw printers out there would definitely be a problem. Suggesting that everyone buy a license from Adobe is not a particularly good answer to the problem and it *is* a problem. )Regardless, they are talking about REMOVING it. And many common )apps puke with GX for simple tasks. That's today's reality. Today's reality is that a *few* common apps have trouble with GX because they're doing unauthorized things in the OS. Unfortunately one of them is MS Word and that is the most popular word processor. )Um, Mach is HIGHLY portable, and easily ported. That was one of )it's design goals... And more than a goal, that is an implementation )reality. Never said it wasn't. But guess what, Nukernel's easier to port to PowerMacs. Why? It's *already* running on them. Furthermore a lot of Mac tech. is already running on *it*. Why port Mach to the 6100/7100/8100/9150 architecture and the 6200 , and the 6300, and the 6400, and the 7500/8500/9500, and the 7200, and the 5300, and the 1400, and the 3400, and the StarMax and PPCP architectures. (Plus the new PowerExpress systems due in the Fall) They all have different chipsets and components. Call me crazy but I think getting OpenStep going on Nukernel would probably be easier. Mach is pretty different than NT's kernel so OpenStep must not be heavily dependent on Mach's features now. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: pecora@zoltar.nrl.navy.mil (Lou Pecora) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 2 Jan 1997 12:47:34 GMT Organization: Naval Research Lab Message-ID: <pecora-0201970748180001@esp225.nrl.navy.mil> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net> <5aejj6$so@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32cb3a67.84938545@news.xmission.com> In article <32cb3a67.84938545@news.xmission.com>, john_zollinger@arkona.com wrote: > >In article <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net>, > >John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> wrote: [snip] > >}"Apple's marketing prowess" - does anybody besides me think this is > >}suitable for posting in rec.humor? > > Ok, ok. So "prowess" was a bad choice of words. I was thinking of > them compared to NeXT. :-) Perhaps, "muscle" would have been a > better word. "Muscle" is just as bad. Face it, Apple is a Marketing wimp and it seems to have no clue about that. What it needs is a good dose of marketing steroids, but someone has to wake it up first to even realize that. It's pathetic. Lou Pecora code 6343 Naval Research Lab Washington DC 20375 USA == My views are not those of the U.S. Navy. == ------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the 4th Experimental Chaos Conference Home Page: http://natasha.umsl.edu/Exp_Chaos4/ ------------------------------------------------------------
From: brataas@sn.no (John Brataas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: PENPAL GREETINGS! (was Re: VIRUS ALERT) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:04:03 GMT Organization: SOUND-tec Message-ID: <5agbo5$9me@elle.eunet.no> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <5a0u8u$ck1@hunter.premier.net> battleaxe@cwc.lsu.edu (Scott Hoppe) wrote: > >In article <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net>, jmh@intrepid.net (Little John) > wrote: > >>Subject: Fw: IMPORTANT! virus alert - " Trojan Horse" -Forwarded > >>Date: Monday, December 09, 1996 9:37 PM > >> > >>Subject: Virus Alert > >>Importance: High > >> > >>If anyone receives mail entitled: PENPAL > >>GREETINGS! ; please delete it > >>WITHOUT reading it. > In article <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net>, mtm@insync.net says... > > > >What is this? Another "Good Time's Virus" scare? This is crazy. Email can't > >contain a virus. Maybe a binary attachment, but then you have to actually > run > >it. Someday these people will learn.... > > > They completely missed the joke this time, because the original poster didn't > use the Subject: 'PENPAL GREETINGS!'. "Don't read the messages sendt to you by the obnoxious persons johnb@falch.no and janr@falch.no. If you open this message on a Windows PC you will enable a virus that force you to type "I will rather use a Macintosh" once evey 5 minutes. If you don't follow theese instructions the virus will spinn up you CD or floppy to 95.000 rpm. and slice your PC into two halfs. Forward this info to everyone you know - even your mother in law"
From: joegidi@aol.com (JoeGidi) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: need help with networking and Zip Date: 2 Jan 1997 15:33:33 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19970102153200.KAA14762@ladder01.news.aol.com> Two questions: 1) can I network my NeXTstation to my Power Mac 6100 to share my HP Deskwriter 550C? If so, how? 2) can I use my Mac's Zip drive to back up my NeXT running NEXTSTEP 3.0? also, can the NeXT be booted from a Zip? If anyone can help I'd really appreciate it. J. Gidi
From: "Cesár M. Cintron" <ccintron@gte.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NextStep/Apple... Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 10:57:34 +0000 Organization: Merging Point Design Message-ID: <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello, I'm just posting in order to get some information... I have been using an Apple Macintosh since 1985 (before I owned I had an Apple IIe) and I have watched the progress... I'll admit to all of the Macs short commings... no multi tasking, protected memmory, and one of the most annoying no delete feature... ( if you've ever had to trash a 200+ files on a Mac server that are named the same thing you'ld really hate that the OS sits there and renames each file before go through and deleting them) Anyway getting to the point I'ld like some info on NextStep... I've never worked on a next machine but at first glance the front end reminded me of the SGI desktop (just a first impression). I have worked on SGI Indy's and found them very responsive and I learned to use some of the shell commands to log on to other machines and such...but I wouldn't consider it a day in day out machine for me... I primarily do Graphic Design with all of Adobe's products...etc.etc.... needless to say my mac has served me well... I've heard plenty of info on Next but a good friend (an SGI fanatic) gave me the following responce to my questions... Here's a few unfavorable things about Next, which I know from personal experience, because a friend of mine had a Motorola-based Next Cube for 2-3 years: - There were 2 parts to the Next operating system: NextStep, and a very old, very crummy Unix. NextStep lived on top of the very old, very crummy Unix, but didn't really depend on it, which is why they were able to port NextStep to Windows. - The very old, very crummy Unix part of Next's OS is far worse than even the freeware Linux (I know, because I used Linux for several years, as did my friend). - The basic foundation of NextStep (which was ported to Windows) is a language called "Objective C". It's not C, or C++, but a different variation on them. Next didn't even have an Objective C compiler; they depended on the freeware GNU Objective C compiler! - The reason you don't hear too much about Objective C is that it was a weird, quirky language. It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military computer language called Ada also offers interfaces). There is nothing else in Objective C worth anything. - Anything NextStep delivered that was new, or leading edge, has long since been incorporated into commercial products delivered by lots of other vendors; look at http://www.chorus.com, http://www.iona.com, http://www.roguewave.com, etc. Here's two examples of how way off-target NextStep is/was: - OK, it has DisplayPostscript like SGIs do, but in order to customize your desktop (i.e., add new menus), you actually had to WRITE POSTSCRIPT CODE! SGI dropped that way of doing things years ago, as did Sun. - For 3D renering (because Job's finger is up Pixar's butt) they chose Renderman. Renderman is NOT a real-time rendering language; it is a very slow photorealistic renderer (which is not even very good, because it doesn't support NURBS, which means that geometry has to be chopped up into simpler curves when feeding it to Renderman). Even Microsoft licensed OpenGL; why didn't Next? My friend hasn't steered me wrong in info and this may be an opiion on older Next products as he metioned the Next Cube... seeing As Next does not make CPU's anymore... can some one address these issues for???
From: bstone@acs3.acs.ucalgary.ca (Blake Stone) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 2 Jan 1997 17:20:28 GMT Organization: The University of Calgary Message-ID: <5agqos$m1e@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca> References: <5afal1$g0b@news3.digex.net> <AEF0A11D-152FBF@198.68.42.213> Lawson English (english@primenet.com) wrote: > Are you saying that DPS does its own windows management on > every platform that it is ported to without feedback at any > level from the host OS? Er. Actually, that's more or less correct. The Window Manager in NeXTstep is actually written in Display PostScript and communicates with the OS through the standard pipeline for rendering instructions. > My. > > You're right. DPS was coded by gods, and I mean of the > religious kind, not programming. They're very bright people. Leo was on my top 5 list of people to talk to at NeXTworld expo every year. So was Avie. Apple has bought an incredible R&D team and I'm excited about the future of Apple for the first time in years. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blake W. Stone bstone@dkw.com Technical Director - DKW Systems "Art may imitate life, but life http://www.dkw.com/bstone imitates TV" - Ani Difranco
From: pxpst2@pitt.edu (the) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 13:10:46 +0200 Organization: jj Distribution: inet Message-ID: <pxpst2-0201971310460001@path01.pathology.pitt.edu> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> Frank you are an idiot that does not know JACK. You surely don't know processors. The PowerPC chip is a generartion ahead of the pentium. The MacOS even hobbled by nonnative I/O routines can still keep up with the Pentiums. The PowerPC was designed to have a hefty FPU. It is the role of programmers to use it. Here is some advice: My grandmother told me "it is better to keep your mouth shut and have peaple think you are dumb than to open your mouth and let peaple know you are dumb." Peter Pediaditakis
From: paul@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:25:55 GMT Organization: P & L Systems Sender: news@seer.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> In <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> Jim Thompson wrote: > Mach wouldn't be the 'best' move for Apple, for sure. However, > despite rumors to the contrary, Mach already runs on the PPC. > (Apple paid OSF to port it. This port is the direct ancestor of > MkLinux.) > > I think NeXT's strengths are in their object technology; that's what > they've been shopping around the last few years, not the underlying > Mach OS. Please remember to distinuguish between Mach (a kernel) and MachOS, a version of BSD 4.3 with the kernel replaced by Mach. I would have been much happier if NeXT never started this confusion by referring to their BSD Unix port as MachOS. The bits that come from BSD are ten years old and desperately need replacing. Mach itself has different virtues; it may also require updating, but this isn't so obvious to a user. Paul -- Paul Lynch (NeXTmail) http://www.plsys.co.uk/~paul
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 19:51:55 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > I mean please show me how to take the words 'Burn In' colored > with a bright red and black vertical gradient and apply just > its saturation value to all underlying shapes in Illustrator? > (Its actually a very cool and dare I say useful effect) > Furthermore what if I want to or need to drag that text around > to reposition it? Illustrator just sucks at stuff like this. Wow, I can't believe it... I'm about to agree :) I don't like Illustrator either...I like freehand/virtuoso best. It lets me do some really cool things a great deal easier. Though, I'm no professional artist, and several pro's that I know swear by Illustrator...so it maybe my un-professional status that prevents me from appreciating its nuances... But for me, Freehand/Virtuoso let me get at things I do easier... > )Note that this proposal does not require that DPS be ripped out. > John in his delusional rants some how believes that I want > DPS to be ripped out. That's just silly, the idea here is to > *add* features to the OS. I personally *want* to have DPS > around. There are a lot research papers in PS format and I'd > rather not wait for GX Maker to chug through them. (Conversion > is *not* a fast process...) However I do not want to see Apple > base their new GUI on it because they've got a better in house > alternative. That in no way implies that DPS has to be ripped > out. All I'm talking about are some new subclasses. Puhleez, I'm willing to take a poll as to who seems more delusional. Seems the hardline positions of the GX clan are softening to very reasonable proposals, and I say great. But more than a lot of FUD was being spread...I'm not naming names ;) and I just wasn't going to let it fly... B/c FUD uncontested get's to be believed...and this is a truly COOEL time for all, and I want whatever decisions are made, to be made on merits, not on paranoia. Anyway...like I said, if GX can replace DPS with the same or more functionality, w/o affecting stability, and with little resource or time requirements, then I'm all for it! However, that seems unlikely, and at least for a while, DPS will have to be kept around. Thank goodness, some consensus :)))) > )yeah, and since ultimately it all gets rendered into PostScript > for )output, its pretty compelling that the onscreen representation > also be in )PS. > Not that compelling for most users. Speed is more important, > furthermore as long as it looks right coming out, most could > care less. BOLONEY! As people in the DTP world... It is absolutely compelling. It was why they loved the mac, b/c the mac was the most WYSIWYG platform. Getting even higher fidelity is always welcome. > Sure they will :) I *guarantee* that if I draw a transparent > circle over a bitmap on screen and then print it out with GX > to my Postscript printer, that transparency will be preserved. > If I wrote the equivalent code in DPS it would *not*. GX does > the appropriate preprocessing of the Postscript output. *NOT* > a trivial task mind you and something you would have to do > yourself to convert the DPS code into printable PS code. Again, there are cures for this currently under NeXTSTEP, and an upgrade to DPS3 will make it all the more moot. > You can say that transparency's not used much, but it could > very well be because your imaging system makes handling it > difficult. (Also processors are only now just becoming fast > enough to handle large amounts of transparent layered graphics > in real time.) This is very likely true. Actually, transparency is used WIDELY throughout the display system...but not in printing. Tiz very true. > )The point is, do you work in one imaging model and output to > )another, or work and output in the same imaging model? > Considering that most Mac users have non-PS printers, even if > they had DPS they'd be outputting to a different imaging model. > The point is that why should you the developer or user need > to know or care what imaging model is being used by your output > device? GX always uses the appropriate imaging model for a > given output device. API-wise you're presented with a clean, > fast, and flexible object-oriented system. If you make a circle > that's an inch in diameter on the screen it'll be an inch when > you print it out with GX. Geometry-wise WYSIWYG display is > really not all that hard to achieve with a good display engine, > i.e. there are far more compelling reasons to keep DPS around > than just WYSIWYG display. The real tricky stuff lies in > color-matching, half-toning, font-handling etc. DPS does all those things. It also outputs to anything fax machines, non postscript printers, toasters (ok not yet ;) > In short I'd rather work with one fast and flexible imaging > system that can automatically handle whatever extra processing > is needed in order to recreate on a given output device what > I made on the screen. Well DPS certainly does that... > Incidentally GX produces much better output for Quickdraw-based > printers than the old architecture does. Graphics that used > to be rendered at 72 dpi can now be rendered at the 360 or > 720 dpi that most inkjets support for free. This is made > possible in part because of the hidden GX 'codec' present in > Quicktime 2.1 and above. It allows any app that can display > a PICT file to also display and print resolution independent > vector graphics. It's pretty cool and totally transparent to > the user. You can also make resolution independent Quicktime > movies. DPS has been doing such things for a while. Though, of course, there is no doubt that GX will do a better job on GX printers than DPS would...simply b/c of the unified nature... > )pardon me? how does the kernel affect this *at all*? > The old Mac printing architecture did not work in Copland's > (Nukernel's) compatibility box. GX's was designed as the next > generation one to replace it. It would emulate the classic > printing architecture like it does under Jeez, that's kinda scary...print stuff, as far as I know, generally shouldn't be a kernel issue. > 3 is chosen. If option 2 is chosen then the compatibility box > will have to be substantially updated. (It'd also be a hell of > a lot slower and *much* more unstable) Option 1 could be very > expensive. It isn't now, and apple should have significantly more leverage than NeXT. Furthermore it maybe cheaper...almost like an outsourcing firm. If they can develop display technology faster, cheaper, more effectively than you can internally, then why not. > OpenStep's printing architecture is probably very nice but > there is a severe driver issue that Apple's going to have to > address if they want Mac users to be able to print to non-PS > printers from within Mac apps under the new OS. You can't > exactly dump a Postscript file to a Stylewriter and expect it > to print. That's not true. There are already options allow you to print to a great bulk of non-PS printers.... -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: garcorp@aol.com (GarCorp) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 2 Jan 1997 18:38:36 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19970102183700.NAA19061@ladder01.news.aol.com> References: <pecora-0201970748180001@esp225.nrl.navy.mil> > >}"Apple's marketing prowess" - does anybody besides me think this is > >}suitable for posting in rec.humor? hey hey hey here..... easy does it! I'm a proud HeloCar owner.... - Gary gary@garcorp.com (NeXT/MIME OK)
From: tzulun@Hawaii.Edu (Tzu-Lun Lin) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 2 Jan 1997 19:12:08 GMT Organization: University of Hawaii Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ah1a8$hiq@news.Hawaii.Edu> Frank Chu (chu@ipoline.com) wrote: : I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since : it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly : no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) : running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance : or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache : onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only : half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. Shitty Mac OS compared to what? Solaris? Yes. But a SPARC station is far more expensive them a PowerPC Mac. If you prefer a SUN Sparc over System/6000 running AIX. Ok. That's your choice. What's that got to do with PowerPC Mac? A dual Pentium should cost less than half of a SPARC or O2. And SPARC and O2 are not shitty machines. PPC CPUs can not eat shit. Only organisms capable to consuming can. I'm sure you are one of them. Your logic goes like this. A top of the line Pentium costs the same as a SPARC or O2. Win95 is shit. A BeBox, dual PPC is ultra fast, cost a fraction of Sun's or SGI's workstation. So all of a sudden, Pentium based CPUs developed a capability to cosume digested food. Huh?
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Mac->NeXTstation->printer Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:56:00 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E3E75D.8MB@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <jak-ya023680003112960101170001@news.asu.edu> In article <jak-ya023680003112960101170001@news.asu.edu> jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) writes: > If I have a Mac and a NeXTstation networked together, is it possible to > print from the Mac to a NeXT laser printer hooked up to the NeXTstation? Or > is there any other way to get from the Mac to the NeXT printer? > > Any help is much appreciated. > A real Mac/NeXT question! Assuming you've got TCP set up, then lpr1.2.cpt.hqx.gz will let you print (slightly limited, but just about functional) on a NeXT printer from the Mac. You cannont connect the NeXT printer to anything other than a NeXT. However for completness it's worth mentioning lpdaemon3.4.cpt.hqx.gz. If you did have a printer on your Mac, you could use that to print to it from the NeXT. It you weren't so far away I'd suuguest a trade - I've an Apple Laserwriter that I'd trade for a NeXT printer, as I use my NeXT far more than my Mac! $an
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc From: alan@oes.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger) Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Message-ID: <alan-0201971308590001@129.212.7.98> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com (Usenet Administration) Organization: Amdahl References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:02:46 GMT In article <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk>, paul@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) wrote: > In <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> Jim Thompson wrote: > > Mach wouldn't be the 'best' move for Apple, for sure. However, > > despite rumors to the contrary, Mach already runs on the PPC. > > (Apple paid OSF to port it. This port is the direct ancestor of > > MkLinux.) > > > > I think NeXT's strengths are in their object technology; that's what > > they've been shopping around the last few years, not the underlying > > Mach OS. > > Please remember to distinuguish between Mach (a kernel) and MachOS, a version > of BSD 4.3 with the kernel replaced by Mach. I would have been much happier > if NeXT never started this confusion by referring to their BSD Unix port as > MachOS. > > The bits that come from BSD are ten years old and desperately need replacing. > Mach itself has different virtues; it may also require updating, but this > isn't so obvious to a user. Is not NEXT based on Mach 2.5 which is basically a BSD unix with Mach messages but was what defined Mach at the time? Mach 3 is a kernel on its own with a Unix personality as an "application". -- Alan Bomberger | (408)-992-2748 | alan@oes.amdahl.com Amdahl Corporation | Opinions are free, worth it, and not Amdahl's Hypertext Word Processor - www.webcom.com/thinker
From: Hunky@cirrus.prestel.co.uk (Henry Blackman) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: re: "power" pc chips can eat shit Date: 02 Jan 97 21:26:18 Organization: [not set] Distribution: inet Message-ID: <852261978mnewsHunky@cirrus.prestel.co.uk> References: <5ah1a8$hiq@news.Hawaii.Edu> According to the latest issue of Amiga Format (Future Publishing UK) if Quikpak purchase Amiga Technologies (please, please), their new version of Amiga will be DEC Alpha and low end machines will continue to run on 680x0 series (they say 070, 080... - but Motorola have PUBLICALLY said no new 0x0 series processors). What's going on here? Why DEC Alpha, when the rest of the Amiga community are moving toward PowerPC; which are cheaper; AND would enable Quikpak to release lower end machines based on RISC technology as well as high end machines based on the SAME processors THUS enabling users/developers to have the same applications running on their machines (take a breath...). Henry.
From: Joe_Keenan@next.com (Joe Keenan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Painfully Slow Text Scrolling in ROM Monitor on ND Turbo Cube Date: 2 Jan 1997 20:24:28 GMT Organization: NeXT Software, Inc. Message-ID: <5ah5hs$n85@news.next.com> References: <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu> In article <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu> liuyi@cs.utexas.edu (Yi Liu) writes: # #On top of this, everything else runs fine with visually comparable #speed to the Turbo slab once the machine boots up. # #So my question: # # Is this a normal behavior in the ROM monitor on the ND Turbo Cube? Sure is. It's because the i860 on the ND isn't doing anything yet, so all screen draws are being done by the main CPU across the (relatively slow) backplane. Once the WindowManager is up & running, it loads the PostScript interpreter into the i860, and doesn't have to do the blits across the backplane. Much faster. You also see this (to a slight extent) on ColorStations. The drawing code in the ROM isn't anywhere was well optimized as the normal routines, so it's slower. joe
From: Mark_Bessey@next.com (Mark Bessey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Painfully Slow Text Scrolling in ROM Monitor on ND Turbo Cube Date: 2 Jan 1997 20:38:11 GMT Organization: NeXT Software, Inc. Message-ID: <5ah6bj$n9f@news.next.com> References: <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu> Yi Liu writes > Problem: When booting in verbose mode, the text scrolls very slowly > line-by-line from bottom to top, kind of like watching a > terminal connected via 2400 baud modem, but felt a lot > slower and a lot more annoying. .. > So my question: > > Is this a normal behavior in the ROM monitor on the ND Turbo Cube? Perfectly normal. The ND display is really slow in console mode. I guess someone figured it wasn't worth optimizing the display speed for a mode that the system is only in at boot-up or for single-user mode. -- Mark Bessey NeXT Software, Inc Software Quality Assurance -->I DON'T SPEAK FOR NeXT <--
From: Michael Taylor <mtaylor@aw.sgi.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:30:35 -0500 Organization: Alias|Wavefront Message-ID: <32CC28FB.15FB@aw.sgi.com> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Please remember to distinuguish between Mach (a kernel) and MachOS, a version > of BSD 4.3 with the kernel replaced by Mach. I would have been much happier > if NeXT never started this confusion by referring to their BSD Unix port as > MachOS. > > The bits that come from BSD are ten years old and desperately need replacing. > Mach itself has different virtues; it may also require updating, but this > isn't so obvious to a user. > Here's an interesting tidbit that suggests that the new Mac OS will not have the exact same kernel as the current OpenStep implementation. This is taken from the Apple home page: OS Strengths (for OpenStep): Multitasking Memory Protected Symmetric Multi-Processing <<<< Note this Network-Ready The version of the Mach kernel that OpenStep for Mach uses does not currently support symmetric multi-processing. It uses an older version of Mach supposedly because the new version was slower. There was a long standing rumor years ago that NeXT had developed a new multi-processor PPC machine just before dropping the hardware side of their business. If that were true, they must have had some solution the symmetric multi-processing problem. I'm currious as to how this will be resolved. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Note: all of this this is rumor-mongering and speculation. But, everyone needs a hobby:-) -- /\/\ike Taylor | Mail: mtaylor@aw.sgi.com Alias|Wavefront Toronto | Voice: (416) 362-8558 x8740 Developer, API Team =D--' http://reality.sgi.com/mtaylor
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 14:43:11 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF17CCF-F0884@198.68.42.248> References: <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >DPS has been doing such things for a while. Though, of course, >there is no doubt that GX will do a better job on GX printers than >DPS would...simply b/c of the unified nature... AFAIK, there are no "GX printers," only print drivers that support GX. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 2 Jan 1997 14:44:02 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF17D39-F2167@198.68.42.248> References: <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> The old Mac printing architecture did not work in Copland's >> (Nukernel's) compatibility box. GX's was designed as the next >> generation one to replace it. It would emulate the classic >> printing architecture like it does under > >Jeez, that's kinda scary...print stuff, as far as I know, generally >shouldn't be a kernel issue. Printing is based on the display architecture, no? QuickDraw was never re-entrant, so it couldn't be used in a PMT kernel as the basis for printing. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: nextusr@sleepy.ponyexpress.net (The Woodsman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Re: Calendar and scheduling apps Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:10:20 -0500 Organization: PonyExpress Net Message-ID: <nextusr-0201971710200001@ponyexpress-5-port-15.ponyexpress.net> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> The best I have found is also the cheapest. That is Cassendra. It can be found on most NeXT FTP sites. Hope this helps. NeXTusr In article <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net>, timothy@acm.org wrote: > What kind of calendar/schedule/group scheduling software exists for > NEXTSTEP? What are the features and costs? Is there anything besides > PencilMeIn? > > Please email me with any details and contacts. > > Thanks. > Timothy > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Timothy R. Mills 2500 Innsbrook Road > timothy@acm.org Charlotte, NC 28226 > (NeXT/MIME/ASCII) phone: 704-442-1141 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Windows 95 - Got it... Tried it... Dumped it!
From: dbg@be.com (Dominic Giampaolo) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 15:11:36 PST Organization: Be Inc. Message-ID: <5ahijv$93g@news.be.com> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> <32CC28FB.15FB@aw.sgi.com> > There was a long standing rumor years ago that NeXT had developed a new > multi-processor PPC machine just before dropping the hardware side of > their business. If that were true, they must have had some solution the > symmetric multi-processing problem. > It's not just a rumor, it is true. A friend of mine worked on the kernel for it. He said it was up for several months before the project got canceled. When I asked him details about how they dealt with SMP he implied that things like the IO subsystem basically just had one big lock around them because none of the drivers were MP safe. The Mach kernel itself is of course SMP capable. --dominic
From: "sschuldt" <sschuldt@highway1.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: 2 Jan 1997 21:42:33 GMT Organization: Another Netscape News Server User Message-ID: <01bbf8cb$9e8d98f0$953c8018@winona> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> > - There were 2 parts to the Next operating system: NextStep, and a very > old, very crummy Unix. NextStep lived on top of the very old, very > crummy Unix, but didn't really depend on it, which is why they were able > to port NextStep to Windows. > To be more accurate, the application framework (AppKit) was divorced from Mach with some measure of pain and made into the platform-independent standard object layer called OPENSTEP. > - The very old, very crummy Unix part of Next's OS is far worse than > even the freeware Linux (I know, because I used Linux for several years, > as did my friend). > I'm sure you know lots about Linux, but you seem to know next to nothing about NEXTSTEP so why are you claiming 'I know' here? Are you really some cheesed off Be lackey trying to stir up some FUD for the hell of it? NeXT's Mach OS is not now, nor was it ever 'crummy'; it simply is unfashionably BSD-based in a SYSTEM V world. You want crummy UNIX? Try IRIX 4.0. > - The basic foundation of NextStep (which was ported to Windows) is a > language called "Objective C". It's not C, or C++, but a different > variation on them. Next didn't even have an Objective C compiler; they > depended on the freeware GNU Objective C compiler! > Er, so what? What was Linux built on - compilers blessed by the Pope? > - The reason you don't hear too much about Objective C is that it was a > weird, quirky language. It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, > called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military > computer language called Ada also offers interfaces). There is nothing > else in Objective C worth anything. > Actually Objective C is a tiny extension to C that can be understood in half an hour.The reason you don't hear much about Objective-C is because the weird, quirky computer industry got caught up in a vortex of hype and spent ten years and countless millions of engineer years figuring out that C++ was a total fiasco. One word: Taligent. IMO, Objective C was never popular because people could not believe that such simple enhancements to ANSI C could really bring about a revolution in software design and that certainly such a revolution required a labyrinthine monster like C++. It was pure hacker machismo. Funny how it turned out though isn't it? 1997 and C++ is disgraced with 'weird, quirky' Objective-C based NeXT software poised to be running on 30 million computers soon. The truth will out. Everytime. > - Anything NextStep delivered that was new, or leading edge, has long > since been incorporated into commercial products delivered by lots of > other vendors; look at http://www.chorus.com, http://www.iona.com, > http://www.roguewave.com, etc. > Cute, but please, spare me. I'm sure millions are frantically beating down the doors to run Chorus on their PBXs and plucky Orbix is poised as we speak to knock Microsoft, David and Goliath-like, to the canvas but ask yourself this: is there a single product from any of those vendors that main street could really give a rat's behind about? Was Apple really torn 'hmm NeXT Software, Inc. or the Threads.h portable library from Rogue Wave. Hmm, hmm, hmmmmm'. > Here's two examples of how way off-target NextStep is/was: > > - OK, it has DisplayPostscript like SGIs do, but in order to customize > your desktop (i.e., add new menus), you actually had to WRITE POSTSCRIPT > CODE! SGI dropped that way of doing things years ago, as did Sun. > - For 3D renering (because Job's finger is up Pixar's butt) they chose > Renderman. Renderman is NOT a real-time rendering language; it is a > very slow photorealistic renderer (which is not even very good, because > it doesn't support NURBS, which means that geometry has to be chopped up > into simpler curves when feeding it to Renderman). Even Microsoft > licensed OpenGL; why didn't Next? > Actually, here's two examples of how off-target you and your increasingly credibility-impaired pal are. Ever heard of Quick Renderman? I didn't think so. As for licensing OpenGL, NeXT could have done that at any time but why bother? NeXT's core markets were in Financial, Telecommunications and general custom app development; not 3D. 'Add new menus?' Unsure what you are talking about here. Do you mean write a new menu class? If so, try putting a decent OPENSTEP programmer and a decent Motif coder in a room and see who can writes you the new menu faster. "Whatever happened to that SGI guy anyway?" I dare ya. > My friend hasn't steered me wrong in info and this may be an opiion on > older Next products as he metioned the Next Cube... seeing As Next does > not make CPU's anymore... can some one address these issues for??? > Sure. NeXT has always made superior, critically lauded products that were far too pricy, esoteric and erratically marketed to achieve massive success. Were they perfect? No. Were they the derivative, obsolete 'crummy' mess that your pal makes them out to be? No. This has been the general consensus of the entire computer industry from practically day one. Hopefully Apple will correct the problems and let the technology shine. With or without the help or understanding of you and your pal... - Steve Boston '97
From: nurban@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Nathan M. Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: 2 Jan 1997 19:45:20 -0500 Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Message-ID: <5ahkr0$1g0@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> <01bbf8cb$9e8d98f0$953c8018@winona> > > - The basic foundation of NextStep (which was ported to Windows) is a > > language called "Objective C". It's not C, or C++, but a different > > variation on them. Next didn't even have an Objective C compiler; they > > depended on the freeware GNU Objective C compiler! Whatever article this originally appeared in isn't on my server, but I just felt I had to comment.. that last statement is wrong. NeXT took the free GNU _C_ compiler and turned it into an Objective-C compiler. They then released the code back to GNU (after a while), who then produced their own Obj-C version of gcc. I fail to see what relying on gcc has to do with the quality of their compiler, anyway. gcc is good and extremely portable. -- Nathan Urban | nurban@vt.edu | Undergrad {CS,Physics,Math} | Virginia Tech
From: leonvs@occam.com (Leon von Stauber) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: Useful software, mono/color Date: 3 Jan 1997 01:11:29 GMT Organization: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <5ahmc1$6o4@hackberry.zilker.net> References: <jak-ya023680002912960132500001@news.asu.edu> Cc: jak@asu.edu In <jak-ya023680002912960132500001@news.asu.edu> John Kestner wrote: > > I'm thinking of getting a NeXTstation, and would like to know what kind of > apps are out there that can make it a useful machine to me(as opposed to a > beautiful example of industrial design sitting on my desk). The best place to look for this stuff is probably ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next You can also try ftp://peanuts.leo.org > The categories of software in which I am interested: > > DTP (something like Quark, maybe?) > all sorts of graphics (mostly bitmapped, little vector) including 3D > CAD/something like formZ > webdesign WebObjects :-) There are also a couple of HTML editors (I have one called WebWriter), and an imagemap creator (WebMapper). > light web/mailserver software? For mail, sendmail! Built in, of course. If you're looking for graphical ease-of-use, though, I don't know of any front ends. I expect this will be one of the new tools available from Apple. Apache is a pretty nice free Web server. Again, no front ends that I know of. > and of course internet surfing (mail, newsgroups, www). Mail.app comes w/ the system. You should get the EnhanceMail.bundle for it as well. I use RadicalNews for Usenet. I recall liking the interface for NewsFlash as well. OmniWeb for Web surfing. There's also Netsurfer. > Are there any notable apps in these categories? Especially shareware, of > course. And a way to transfer files to/from a Mac. FTP will work. NEXTSTEP will also read Mac-formatted media, such as floppies. > Also, please note whether any such apps would want color. I'd need to > justify a color NeXTstation (I'm leaning toward mono). Color is always nice, of course. However, I haven't really missed it on my mono system, except for one thing: Web surfing. Mono sucks for Web surfing. But then, Web surfing sucks over 28.8 anyway. ____________________________________________________________________ Leon von Stauber http://www.occam.com/leonvs/ Occam's Razor, Game Designer <leonvs@occam.com> PSW Technologies, System Administrator <leonvs@pswtech.com> MIDS, Web Developer <leonvs@mids.org> "We have not come to save you, but you will not die in vain!"
From: jmh@intrepid.net (Little John) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 01:15:58 GMT Organization: RHAHMM Message-ID: <5ahmgp$73c@news3.texas.net> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <59s88u$63f@buffnet2.buffnet.net> In article <59s88u$63f@buffnet2.buffnet.net>, rwcrosby@buffnet.net (Rik Crosby) wrote: >Ya know, if I remember correctly, thi seems to be the EXACT same warning that >was floating around with Good Times. > >In article <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net>, mtm@insync.net says... >> >>What is this? Another "Good Time's Virus" scare? This is crazy. Email can't >>contain a virus. Maybe a binary attachment, but then you have to actually run >>it. Someday these people will learn.... >> >>In article <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net>, jmh@intrepid.net (Little John) wrote: >>>Subject: Fw: IMPORTANT! virus alert - " Trojan Horse" -Forwarded >>>Date: Monday, December 09, 1996 9:37 PM >>> >>>Subject: Virus Alert [snip] I apologize for the virus alert post, which I have canceled. It was stupid of me to post it without checking it out first. -- John
From: cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: - NeXTApple logo.gif (0/1) My contribution to the NeXT/Apple logos Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:56:58 -0500 Organization: University of Maine System Message-ID: <cwood41-ya023080000201971856580001@news.caps.maine.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gif of the NeXT logo, but with the letters replaced by a garden variety Apple logo, rotated the appropriate -28 degrees. (Apologies to Paul Rand.) --Chris -- Christopher Wood cwood41@maine.maine.edu D'ohh! <-- in the manner of Homer Simpson
From: cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: - NeXTApple logo.gif (1/1) My contribution to the NeXT/Apple logos Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:56:59 -0500 Organization: University of Maine System Message-ID: <cwood41-ya023080000201971856590001@news.caps.maine.edu> BEGIN -- Cut Here -- cut here begin 644 NeXTApple logo.gif M1TE&.#EA:P!X`/<``/____?W]^_O[^?GY][>WM;6UL[.SL;&QKV]O9R<G)24 ME(R,C'-S<VMK:V-C8UI:6E)24DI*2D)"0CDY.3$Q,2DI*2$A(1@8&!`0$`@( M"-[6UKVUM<:]O;6MK:VEI9R4E)2,C(R$A'-K:VMC8UI24DI"0H1S<T(Y.7-C M8SDQ,3$I*5I*2E)"0BDA(5I"0B$8&#DI*1@0$!`("/\``/<``.<``,X``+T` M`+4``*T``)0``(0``"D``!@``/\(`/\0`/\8`/\I`/\Q`/]"`.]"`/]*`/]2 M`/]C`"D0`/]S`'LY`$(Y,?][`.]S`,YC`(Q"`%)*0O=[`-9K`*52`&,Q`$I" M.?^$`/^,`/>,`/>4`/><`/^M`!@0`$I",?>M`-:4`/>U`*V$`&M2`/_.`/?& M`'MC`/_6`/?.`&-2`.?&`-Z]`*6,`/_>`'MK`/?>`-[&`+VM`(R,A(2$>UI: M4C$Q*2$A&!`0""$A`*VU`)RE`&MS`)2E`(RE`(RM`&N<`&NM`&.<`%J<`%*< M`#$Y*5*M`$*4`#F4`#FE`#&E`"FM`"&E``@I`!B<`!"M``B]``B<`+6]M4)* M0@#.``#&``"]``"U``"E``"<``",``"$``![``!S``!K``!C``!:``!*``!" 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From: rzeman@his.com (Rick Zeman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 21:54:36 -0500 Organization: None Message-ID: <rzeman-0201972154370001@shiva1-mclean-252.his.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: |)However, the problems |)are not limited to ms products. Also, considering ms word is the |)most popular wp on the mac...it really seems that there should be |)something apple will do to work with it...even if it's to disable |)itself while working with apps that are known to be incompatible...like |)word... | | That would require GX's printing architecture yanking itself out putting |the old printing architecture back in printing, and then kicking it out |again when its done. Trust me, that's *not* a feasible plan. Actually, that's exactly what Lawrence's OldPrint hack does. It, however, IS a hack (his term) and that shouldn't be supported in the system software. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Rick Zeman In our secret world, we will collide mailto:rzeman@his.com In all of the places we were hiding love Will Rogers never met Bill Clinton What was it we were thinking of?
From: hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Favorite sendmail bugs Date: 2 Jan 1997 19:46:14 GMT Organization: Individual - France Message-ID: <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <jinx6568-3012961209030001@news.sover.net> <32c95a03.169884656@mambo> <5a9vsr$4fs@camel5.mindspring.com> dleblanc@mindspring.com (David LeBlanc) wrote: >sangria@inlink.com (Sang K. Choe) wrote: > >>Sendmail is everything. >>It's dessert topping, a floor cleaner and a kitchen sink. > >>And because it's everything, it's so damn ugly. Complex, huge and >>cryptic as hell. Making it extremely bug prone. > >>My favorite sendmail bug: > >>The one that lets you send a mail to any file on the host machine. >>Say something like /etc/passwd...being able to overwrite the >>/etc/passwd file with something like: > >The one I like the most is the one where it tries to contact your >identd, so your identd tells it to execute commands like mailing >/etc/passwd to the postmaster... > >Then there is your choice of buffer overflows and versions. > >I think the one you're talking about is fairly old, and involves the >uudecode/uuencode aliases. Yes, sendmail is complex. It is complex because it does a lot things. Since it is complex it can contains bugs. But since it is useda lot on Internet, it is now one of the most tested software on unix. You will be able to find still new bugs but more the time will go on more it will be hard to find bugs. Now you can do lite version of sendmail, fo small servers. But you won't have powerfull mail server. If you must manage huge sites, with a huge number of people with different ways of tranfering mails (not only TCP/IP connections), with a different service to offer (aliases, groups, autoreply and new actually unexisting services), you may opt for sendmail. One reason because Apple bought NeXT was because they offer products for Fortune 500. Apple too has a "pro" servers line : they run under AIX (IBM Unix), no ? Hugues. -------------------------------------------------------------------- hugues@precipice.fdn.fr - French, English, Italian and a few JP ->OK ------------ NS3.2 ------------ NS3.0J ------------ :-) ------------
From: Mark Lau <markl@netcom.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 20:57:10 -0500 Organization: Netcom Canada Message-ID: <32CC6776.78A1@netcom.ca> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cesár M. Cintron wrote: [... stuff deleted ...] > - The reason you don't hear too much about Objective C is that it was a > weird, quirky language. It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, > called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military > computer language called Ada also offers interfaces). There is nothing > else in Objective C worth anything. > Actually, I believe you can get pretty much the same effect as the Objective-C interface in C++ by using virtual abstract base classes with pure virtual functions only. As a reasonably experienced C++ developer, I find the Objective-C's category and forwarding features extremely useful. By using categories, a developer can add new methods to existing classes without needing the source code (you do need the header file, though). This is invaluable considering NeXT ships an extensive library of classes and typically only their header files are available. Now, say you want to add a method to the String class to get the first character. By using categories, you can achieve this by adding a method called firstChar to the String class. Note that even though you can also add methods through subclassing, the return types of the methods of these shipped classes have already been defined in the library and thus cannot be substituted with their subclasses. Forwarding is useful as you can use a generic forwarder object to stand in for another object without forcing the forwarder object to inherit from the same base class as the other. Of these two features, forwarding can be (inconveniently) simulated in C++ by writing your own proxy classes but there is simply no C++ equivalence of Category. Mark.
From: EASTERYI@chollian.dacom.co.kr (Ă”žźŸÈ NEWS GROUP ÀÌżëÀÚ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Financial programming info needed! Date: 3 Jan 1997 02:22:57 GMT Organization: DACOM Internet Service Message-ID: <5ahqi1$tm6$1@usenet.dacom.co.kr> Hi !~ you there. I'm working on financial programming. But here in Seoul, there ain'nt any info to look up, so if you have any tips or guide on this subject, please write to me now! I appreciate anything you wrote. I am planning to make a financial analysis software that will be used by stock companies as a dicision backup tool. Do here anybody interested in derivatives ? Thanks in advance. Easter T. Yi
From: marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 19:24:09 -0800 Organization: Northwest Link Message-ID: <marke-0201971924090001@ip005.mu3.nwlink.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > Never said it wasn't. But guess what, Nukernel's easier to port to > PowerMacs. Why? It's *already* running on them. Furthermore a lot of Mac > tech. is already running on *it*. Why port Mach to the 6100/7100/8100/9150 > architecture and the 6200 , and the 6300, and the 6400, and the > 7500/8500/9500, and the 7200, and the 5300, and the 1400, and the 3400, and > the StarMax and PPCP architectures. (Plus the new PowerExpress systems due > in the Fall) They all have different chipsets and components. Call me crazy > but I think getting OpenStep going on Nukernel would probably be easier. > Mach is pretty different than NT's kernel so OpenStep must not be heavily > dependent on Mach's features now. 1. There is no way for *you* to know what is easier. Apple and NeXT engineers will have to decide 2. Mach 3.0 is already running on most PowerMacs via the MkLinux project 3. Mac technologies shouldn't and most likely don't care what kernel they are running on -Mark -- ---> marke@nwlink.com
From: shawk@panix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Painfully Slow Text Scrolling in ROM Monitor on ND Turbo Cube Date: 2 Jan 1997 18:33:47 GMT Organization: Digital Telemedia Inc. Message-ID: <5agv2b$o7a@maceo.dti.net> References: <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu> Cc: liuyi@cs.utexas.edu Yes.
From: dleblanc@mindspring.com (David LeBlanc) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Favorite sendmail bugs Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 04:53:13 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ai3a2$r4p@camel5.mindspring.com> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <jinx6568-3012961209030001@news.sover.net> <32c95a03.169884656@mambo> <5a9vsr$4fs@camel5.mindspring.com> <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr> hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) wrote: >dleblanc@mindspring.com (David LeBlanc) wrote: >>The one I like the most is the one where it tries to contact your >>identd, so your identd tells it to execute commands like mailing >>/etc/passwd to the postmaster... >>Then there is your choice of buffer overflows and versions. >>I think the one you're talking about is fairly old, and involves the >>uudecode/uuencode aliases. >Yes, sendmail is complex. >It is complex because it does a lot things. Since it is complex it >can contains bugs. But since it is useda lot on Internet, it is now >one of the most tested software on unix. You will be able to find >still new bugs but more the time will go on more it will be hard to >find bugs. I don't think so. Some very old bugs just cropped back up again in very recent versions. The fact is that all but the most recent are known to be vulnerable to attacks, both external and internal. I believe all versions prior to 8.7 are considered vulnerable to a number of different attacks, and several of the 8.7 and later series have problems. There is a new version nearly every month as new bugs are discovered. David LeBlanc |Why would you want to have your desktop user, dleblanc@mindspring.com |your mere mortals, messing around with a 32-bit |minicomputer-class computing environment? |Scott McNealy
From: jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 01:06:05 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf-ya023580000301970106050001@news.tiac.net> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> <01bbf8cb$9e8d98f0$953c8018@winona> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <01bbf8cb$9e8d98f0$953c8018@winona>, "sschuldt" <sschuldt@highway1.com> wrote: > IMO, Objective C was never popular because people could not > believe that such simple enhancements to ANSI C could really bring > about a revolution in software design and that certainly such a revolution > required a labyrinthine monster like C++. It was pure hacker machismo. I found it interesting to recently read a book about C++ written back when it was new. Many of the critical "improvements" were incorporated in ANSI C. And, by just waiting, I've avoided having to learn C++ ;-). snip > so. As for licensing OpenGL, NeXT could have done that at any time > but why bother? A recent development for the Sparc Ultra that we monitor is based on the Mesa clone of OpenGL (guess OpenGL itself wasn't ready). And Mesa has been ported to NS. So I guess the unidentified whiner Steve is responding to can have it (at no cost). Quality freeware (usually with source) has always been a NS bonus. Barney
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 20:00:59 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> In article <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: >rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: >> Specifically what were the problems, and which apps were being >> used? > >Nothing fancy. Often simple memos wouldn't print in ms word. I'd >remove the extension, viola, it'd print. Word 6 and Excel 5 are supposedly GX-aware (they support native GX printing), but this does not seem to work reliably. They print a lot better if you lie to them and tell them GX isn't installed. You don't actually have to deinstall GX, and the applications are still printing through GX and using the GX printer drivers, but they work a *lot* better if they don't know they're doing so. Doesn't this reinforce the contention that the problems are with the applications, not with GX? >True, ms blows big fat chunks. The PS their drivers produce are >an abomination. But other apps other than ms word have problems >too. I'd love to know which other ones. >> Using the EXACT same >> code )to draw the screen and to print is the highest level of >> WYSIWYG )possible...by definition. Period. So as long as >> Postscript printers )are the norm, DPS will achieve the highest >> WYSIWYG fidelity. Your )refusal to accept this is just blind. Unfortunately, PostScript printers have never been, and never will be, the norm. I estimate they account for less than 6% of the current printer market, and this share is dwindling. Even Adobe no longer have absolute confidence in the supremacy of PostScript, which is why they introduced that strange thing called PrintGear... >> No it's not. If you use one of DPS' calls that isn't in >> Postscript, then it won't print. The question is will the DPS3 >> engine support transparency while printing to PSLevel2 printers. > >Other than transparencies...considering most people haven't EVER >used transparencies since they dont use DPS...it's not a problem. >And with D/PS3 all features should work. Even though PostScript Level 2 has been around for--how long? 5-7 years?--we still cannot forget about the large number of Level 1 printers still in common use. With PostScript Level 3, the situation will be worse--it simply will not be worth writing Level-3-specific code, that only works with a tiny fraction of newer printers, only to write another version of it that is backward-compatible with Level 2 and Level 1. >Still doesn't change >things...you can try to ignore reality, holding your breath and >shaking your head all you like. DPS & PS as a unified imaging >model produce the highest fidelity WYSIWYG possible... Until GX >printers are common, that will stay the same. I've got news for you: you probably already have several GX printers about the place! Remember, every PostScript printer is a GX printer. And there are lots of non-PostScript printers that have GX drivers available--for example, see the list at <http://www.gxfanclub.com/gxdrivers.html>. Thus, GX gives you a much wider choice of output devices than PostScript does. >DPS also has been ported to MANY platforms, even more than GX... Yes, but unfortunately, the combined market share of all those platforms is only a fraction of the MacOS market share. In other words, Display PostScript has not been ported to any *significant* platforms. Why is this? If Display PostScript is so wonderful, why don't Adobe use it themselves, in their own products, on Mac, Windows and elsewhere? For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 02:16:56 -0500 Organization: PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals) Message-ID: <scottm-ya02408000R0301970216560001@news.erols.com> References: <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> <5ab7vl$t8s@news3.digex.net> <AEEF16CD966829771@bos-ma11-17.ix.netcom.com> <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: >> >...often pukes on simple files... >> >> Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX by apps, >> not because of GX itself. > >If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. > Or just very bad programming (hardware banging) perhaps. -- -------------------------------- Scott Maxwell - scottm@nic.com "We are a fact-gathering organization only... the minute the FBI begins making recommendations on what should be done with its information, it becomes a Gestapo." -- J. Edgar Hoover
From: scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 02:20:47 -0500 Organization: PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals) Message-ID: <scottm-ya02408000R0301970220470001@news.erols.com> References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: >> >If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. >> >> No, it's because the QD apps were using non-documented features of QD >> printing. MS is well known for this. > >If GX replaces Quickdraw, then it is the responsibility of GX >to match the behavior of QuickDraw. Blaming pre-existing applications >for incompatabilities in new software is pretty lame. > So a company should plan on a developer totally ignoring rules set down in Inside Macintosh? Give me a break. >It's not like Apple doesn't have the source to QuickDraw. > It's not like M$ doesn't have access to Inside Macintosh either. -- -------------------------------- Scott Maxwell - scottm@nic.com "We are a fact-gathering organization only... the minute the FBI begins making recommendations on what should be done with its information, it becomes a Gestapo." -- J. Edgar Hoover
From: reichman@usc.edu (Matthew N. Reichman) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Favorite sendmail bugs Date: 3 Jan 1997 07:39:10 GMT Organization: Como me Gusta productions Sender: reichman@comserv-f-69.usc.edu Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5aid2u$89@usc.edu> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <jinx6568-3012961209030001@news.sover.net> <32c95a03.169884656@mambo> <5a9vsr$4fs@camel5.mindspring.com> <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr> <5ai3a2$r4p@camel5.mindspring.com> Cc: dleblanc@mindspring.com In <5ai3a2$r4p@camel5.mindspring.com> David LeBlanc wrote: > I don't think so. Some very old bugs just cropped back up again in > very recent versions. The fact is that all but the most recent are > known to be vulnerable to attacks, both external and internal. I > believe all versions prior to 8.7 are considered vulnerable to a > number of different attacks, and several of the 8.7 and later series > have problems. There is a new version nearly every month as new bugs > are discovered. I think that qmail might be offering something more secure. At least it seems to... -- Be well, Matthew Reichman <reichman@usc.edu> NeXTMAIL, SUN Mail & MIME welcome PGP key --> email w/ subject "request_PGP"
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 02:56:52 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000301970256520001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: )But for me, Freehand/Virtuoso )let me get at things I do easier... Got Freehand too, and it works with color better, but believe me no vector program touches LD in that respect. ) Anyway...like I )said, if GX can replace DPS with the same or more functionality, )w/o affecting stability, and with little resource or time requirements, )then I'm all for it! Why are you constantly harping on GX to replace DPS? They should both be available for users. GX would not 'replace' DPS, it would just be used as a more flexible and easier to use alternative. )BOLONEY! As people in the DTP world... It is absolutely compelling. )It was why they loved the mac, b/c the mac was the most WYSIWYG )platform. Getting even higher fidelity is always welcome. You're not getting higher fidelity though. The one complaint users have against GX is that they can't print from some apps, you never hear complaints about GX producing something that wasn't an accurate representation of what's on the screen. )Again, there are cures for this currently under NeXTSTEP, and an )upgrade to DPS3 will make it all the more moot. Again you haven't answered whether or not DPS3 will enable transparency on DPS2 and DPS1 printers. Furthermore GX TransferModes are a lot more sophisticated than just transparency. Please show me the Postscript L3 code that will take an arbitrary shape's luminance channel and transfer it to the saturation channel of whatever it's drawn on top of. )This is very likely true. Actually, transparency is used WIDELY )throughout the display system...but not in printing. Tiz very )true. Definitely a problem, and worsened when you consider that transparency still can model a lot of GX's transfer mode interactions. Some of which are probably more useful than plain transparency. A hue transfer for instance is a simple and very powerful way of high-lighting something. There's an excellent example of this in one of LD GX's demo files. Download the GX Graphics extension and give it a whirl. )DPS does all those things. It also outputs to anything fax machines, )non postscript printers, toasters (ok not yet ;) As does GX, but again GX is faster and easier to use. )Well DPS certainly does that... Actually for what I'm doing it doesn't, but I'm doing 'weird' things ;) )DPS has been doing such things for a while. Though, of course, )there is no doubt that GX will do a better job on GX printers than )DPS would...simply b/c of the unified nature... There's no such thing as a 'GX printer' I was talking about plain old or classic Quickdraw printers. Quickdraw may be part of QD GX's name, but it's an *entirely* different entity. Furthermore the point wasn't whether or not one could rasterize PS to something a non-PS printer could understand, but that GX enabled classic Quickdraw-based apps to dramatically improve their output without changing a byte of code. DPS would have to patch into the Mac Toolbox and do all of the other scary things that GX's printing section does in order to achieve the same functionality. )Jeez, that's kinda scary...print stuff, as far as I know, generally )shouldn't be a kernel issue. Printing by itself isn't, but printing drivers *are*. )It isn't now, and apple should have significantly more leverage )than NeXT. Furthermore it maybe cheaper...almost like an outsourcing )firm. If they can develop display technology faster, cheaper, more )effectively than you can internally, then why not. Definitely some truth to this, but it would probably cost a very pretty penny to license the appropriate driver software for the scads of non-PS printers. Remember Apple would have to purchase a mass Mac OS license, and that would easily shoot into the 10s of millions of dollars. )That's not true. There are already options allow you to print to )a great bulk of non-PS printers.... Without third party software it's most certainly true, which was my point. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 03:03:09 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000301970303090001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0201971924090001@ip005.mu3.nwlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <marke-0201971924090001@ip005.mu3.nwlink.com>, marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: )1. There is no way for *you* to know what is easier. Apple and NeXT )engineers will have to decide No denying that. But it certainly doesn't look particularly promising for Mach on PowerMacs. )2. Mach 3.0 is already running on most PowerMacs via the MkLinux project *Barely* running is more like it. They still don't support a couple of million Performa users out there, 8500 users like myself can't use it because of quirks with the video drivers... Again Nukernel gets around these, plus all current drivers for PCI boards will work unchanged under Nukernel. There are virtually no PCI board drivers for Mach 3.0 on PowerMac. If Apple needed to use Mach for a quick 'developer-only' port they're probably better off using MachTen, it has a native file system now and runs on all PowerMac hardware. (as a process in sys. 7.x) Furthermore it's the same version of Mach used in OpenStep/Mach. )3. Mac technologies shouldn't and most likely don't care what kernel they )are running on Drivers have to care. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: paul@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:18:44 GMT Organization: P & L Systems Sender: news@seer.demon.co.uk Message-ID: <1997Jan3.081844.7799@seer.demon.co.uk> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> <alan-0201971308590001@129.212.7.98> In <alan-0201971308590001@129.212.7.98> Alan Bomberger wrote: > In article <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk>, > paul@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) wrote: > > Please remember to distinuguish between Mach (a kernel) and MachOS, a version > > of BSD 4.3 with the kernel replaced by Mach. I would have been much happier > > if NeXT never started this confusion by referring to their BSD Unix port as > > MachOS. > > Is not NEXT based on Mach 2.5 which is basically a BSD unix with > Mach messages but was what defined Mach at the time? Mach 3 is a kernel > on its own with a Unix personality as an "application". No.... NeXTSTEP is based on the Mach 2.5 kernel (more or less), plus parts of BSD 4.3. The kernel is not the same as BSD Unix, by a factor of many hundreds of programs. Mach 3.0, as you say, does it very differently, but it is still a kernel and needs the support of a form of Unix to become a complete OS. Paul -- Paul Lynch (NeXTmail) http://www.plsys.co.uk/~paul
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc From: thomas@gamelan.shnet.org (Thomas Funke) Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Message-ID: <1997Jan2.203506.1650@gamelan.shnet.org> Sender: thomas@gamelan.shnet.org (thomas) Cc: ccintron@gte.net Organization: Disorganization References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:35:06 GMT In <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> "CesÆr M. Cintron" wrote: > > Here's a few unfavorable things about Next, which I know from personal > experience, because a friend of mine had a Motorola-based Next Cube for > 2-3 > years: Obviously, your friend has a computer, so you're expert on the following: > > - The basic foundation of NextStep (which was ported to Windows) is a > language called "Objective C". It's not C, or C++, but a different > variation on them. Next didn't even have an Objective C compiler; they > depended on the freeware GNU Objective C compiler! The Objective-C Compiler was made by NeXT and given to GNU. Only the C-Compiler was original GNU - one of the best C compilers on the market. Anything wrong with this ? > > - The reason you don't hear too much about Objective C is that it was a > weird, quirky language. It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, > called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military > computer language called Ada also offers interfaces). There is nothing > else in Objective C worth anything. You had better get some knowldege on the language besides the fact that your friend owns a cube. You might also read an introductory book on Smalltalk. After that, talk about 'quirky'. > > My friend hasn't steered me wrong in info and this may be an opiion on > older Next products as he metioned the Next Cube... seeing As Next does > not make CPU's anymore... can some one address these issues for??? > NeXT never made a CPU - you had better fresh up you knowledge about CPU's, too. -- ----- Thomas Funke ----------------------- thomas@gamelan.shnet.org ----- C++ is to C as Lung Cancer is to Lung
From: ct207@cam.ac.uk (Constantin Teleman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 3 Jan 1997 10:30:58 GMT Organization: St. John's College Message-ID: <ct207-0301971033150001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > Unfortunately, PostScript printers have never been, and never will be, the > norm. I estimate they account for less than 6% of the current printer > market, and this share is dwindling. But they probably account for nearly 100% of the *quality* printer market... and it's pointless to debate the merits of advanced imaging technologies when talking about cheap inkjets. If PS rasterization is built into the operating system, you won't need a PS printer to print a PS file (though it will be faster). By the way, printing QuickDraw on a PS printer *will* slow down your machine, while it converts QD to PS. > I've got news for you: you probably already have several GX printers about > the place! Remember, every PostScript printer is a GX printer. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What on earth could you mean by that? Are you implying that GX is a subset of PostScript? (It's not.) Will any PostScript printer understand downloaded GX commands? (They won't.) You seem to equate "is a GX printer" with "there is a GX-aware driver for it". These are NOT the same things. Please refrain from hugely misleading statements. > For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>. Been there. Hardly convincing. cheers, Constantin
From: Mark Sitkowski <marks@iaccess.COM.AU> Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: PENPAL GREETINGS! (was Re: VIRUS ALERT) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 22:54:47 +1100 Organization: D.S.S Message-ID: <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <5a0u8u$ck1@hunter.premier.net> <5agbo5$9me@elle.eunet.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Brataas wrote: > > battleaxe@cwc.lsu.edu (Scott Hoppe) wrote: > > > >In article <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net>, jmh@intrepid.net (Little John) > > wrote: > > >>Subject: Fw: IMPORTANT! virus alert - " Trojan Horse" -Forwarded > > >>Date: Monday, December 09, 1996 9:37 PM > > >> > > >>Subject: Virus Alert > > >>Importance: High > > >> Do you know the name of this newsgroup? Did you see the word 'unix' anywhere? I thought after all this time, everyone in the world knew there was no such thing as a 'unix virus'. Obviously the news didn't reach you! > > "Don't read the messages sendt to you by the obnoxious persons > johnb@falch.no and janr@falch.no. If you open this message on a > Windows PC you will enable a virus that force you to type "I will > rather use a Macintosh" once evey 5 minutes. If you don't follow > theese instructions the virus will spinn up you CD or floppy to 95.000 > rpm. and slice your PC into two halfs. Forward this info to everyone > you know - even your mother in law" -- Best regards, Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Sitkowski ĐŠ±ÈżȚșĂ! "In God we trust. All others pay cash..." 5 Bronaldi Street Heathmont Victoria 3135 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Home phone: (613-9) 729-0731 žűÎÒŽò”ç»°! Home fax: (613-9) 720-1487 E-mail: marks@iaccess.com.au --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: brataas@sn.no (John Brataas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: PENPAL GREETINGS! (was Re: VIRUS ALERT) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 12:22:12 GMT Organization: SOUND-tec Message-ID: <5aitlp$jks@elle.eunet.no> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <5a0u8u$ck1@hunter.premier.net> <5agbo5$9me@elle.eunet.no> <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU> Mark Sitkowski <marks@iaccess.COM.AU> wrote: > Do you know the name of this newsgroup? Did you see the word 'unix' > anywhere? > I thought after all this time, everyone in the world knew there was > no such thing as a 'unix virus'. Obviously the news didn't reach you! I was so sick about all the Virus Alert on the net so I had to do something :) The ultimate virus joke : ) John :) > > "Don't read the messages sendt to you by the obnoxious persons > > johnb@falch.no and janr@falch.no. If you open this message on a > > Windows PC you will enable a virus that force you to type "I will > > rather use a Macintosh" once evey 5 minutes. If you don't follow > > theese instructions the virus will spinn up you CD or floppy to 95.000 > > rpm. and slice your PC into two halfs. Forward this info to everyone > > you know - even your mother in law" > -- > Best regards, > Mark > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mark Sitkowski ĐŠ±ÈżȚșĂ! > "In God we trust. All others pay cash..." > 5 Bronaldi Street > Heathmont Victoria 3135 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Home phone: (613-9) 729-0731 žűÎÒŽò”ç»°! > Home fax: (613-9) 720-1487 E-mail: marks@iaccess.com.au > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Hoekstra <HOEKSTRA_B@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: PENPAL GREETINGS! (was Re: VIRUS ALERT) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 14:34:04 +0100 Organization: Origin IT Message-ID: <32CD0ACC.746@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <5a0u8u$ck1@hunter.premier.net> <5agbo5$9me@elle.eunet.no> <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Sitkowski wrote: > ... > I thought after all this time, everyone in the world knew there was > no such thing as a 'unix virus'. Obviously the news didn't reach you! Not true. Refer http://www.cyber.com/papers/plausibility.html -- ----------------------------------------------------- Bob Hoekstra: Unix Consultant Return email: hoekstra_b@cft.philips.nl Home email: bob@khamsin.demon.co.uk -----------------------------------------------------
From: m555@ix.netcom.com (Mark Landin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: PENPAL GREETINGS! (was Re: VIRUS ALERT) Date: 3 Jan 1997 14:30:55 GMT Organization: not organized Message-ID: <5aj56v$pur@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <5a0u8u$ck1@hunter.premier.net> <5agbo5$9me@elle.eunet.no> <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII In article <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU>, marks@iaccess.COM.AU says... > >I thought after all this time, everyone in the world knew there was >no such thing as a 'unix virus'. Except UNIX. :)
From: Bob Hoekstra <HOEKSTRA_B@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: cmsg cancel <32CD0ACC.746@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> Control: cancel <32CD0ACC.746@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 16:42:58 +0100 Organization: Philips Electronics N.V. Message-ID: <32CD2902.7DC9@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> References: <32CD0ACC.746@CFT.PHILIPS.NL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This message was cancelled from within Mozilla.
From: awdorn@primenet.com (Alexander W. Dorn) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "power" pc chips can eat s*** Date: 3 Jan 1997 10:13:07 -0700 Organization: Primenet Message-ID: <5ajen3$s8t@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> References: <5ah1a8$hiq@news.Hawaii.Edu> <852261978mnewsHunky@cirrus.prestel.co.uk> Hunky@cirrus.prestel.co.uk (Henry Blackman) wrote: >According to the latest issue of Amiga Format (Future Publishing UK) if Quikpak purchase Amiga >Technologies (please, please), their new version of Amiga will be DEC Alpha and low end machines will >continue to run on 680x0 series (they say 070, 080... - but Motorola have PUBLICALLY said no new 0x0 >series processors). >What's going on here? Why DEC Alpha, when the rest of the Amiga community are moving toward PowerPC; >which are cheaper; AND would enable Quikpak to release lower end machines based on RISC technology as >well as high end machines based on the SAME processors THUS enabling users/developers to have the >same applications running on their machines (take a breath...). >Henry. Consider This. There is talk (and as far as I know, it is only talk) that Microsoft is no longer going to support non-intel processors with WinNT. Then consider that most of the high-end graphics houses that used Amiga-based software have shifted to Alpha-based machines, and are now running WinNT-based versions of the formerly Amiga software (such as Lightwave). Might it be possible that the people at Quikpak do not see themselves as being able to compete with the Wintel machines in the market, as they do not have the resources that Microsoft has, and so they have looked for another market they can focus on and make a tidy profit in? Also remember, this does not mean that there will be no PowerAmiga, but that, perhaps, Quikpak do not see a profit in it, and perhaps are willing to let others (aka PIOS and Phase5) deal with this mid-range type of machine. If a standard AmigaOS is put out there, or a standard NonAmiga OS that will run on Amigas as well as these other machines, then what difference does it make in exactly who builds the machine? Just think, a DEC Alpha machine that can not only out-render a current Amiga (or PC), but can also run the Video Flyer! Just a thought!
From: Vlod Kalicun <Vlod-KWR.Kalicun@ubs.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 17:04:47 +0000 Organization: Union Bank of Switzerland Message-ID: <32CD3C2F.43C6@ubs.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <sw-ya023580003112961636230001@newshost.nan.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sak Wathanasin wrote: > I've ported several MFC appls to the Mac using MacApp and the frameworks > are similar enough that I don't think I'll have that much trouble learning > MFC. Learning the "New MacStep" is going to be a much bigger investment. So > far, I haven't seen anything that tells me that such an investment will pay > off. I look forward to being convinced otherwise. Hold off! Im not a Next expert.. but there has to be a market otherwise NEXT would have gone out of business years ago. There HAS to be applications for it now, so there wont be a lack of applications at launch. Applications are 'apparently' easier to write on the Next, due to its object orientated nature. Reviewers have said (when the NEXTCube initially came out) that objects could be drag-and-dropped together to create applications in a very short space of time. That was part of the appeal. There is a wealth of source code on the net, so you can program by example. Altura (??) will be creating some sort of porting-technology like mac2win. Although Im a fanatical mac-advocater.. Im looking forward to using NextOS and developing for it. Apple will wave a magic-wand :-) for futher NextOS releases and progessively integrate more and more mac technology into it. Eventually you'll never know the difference ;-) regards.. -vlod no intended flame.. :-)
From: email@end.of.post (Raymond Lutz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ADB esc sequence? Date: 3 Jan 1997 17:34:15 GMT Organization: SPC Message-ID: <5ajfun$7nq@wagner.spc.videotron.ca> Hi there, What are the escape key combinations for ADB keayboards? ie: How do I access the NMI Mini-Monitor? How do I reset the hardware? Thanx -- Raymond Lutz, lutzray@9bit.qc.ca "Les 400 plus fortunes individus de la planete possedent autant que 2.3 MILLIARDS des plus pauvres reunis"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc From: alan@oes.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger) Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Message-ID: <alan-0301971009560001@129.212.7.98> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com (Usenet Administration) Organization: Amdahl References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> <alan-0201971308590001@129.212.7.98> <1997Jan3.081844.7799@seer.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:03:41 GMT In article <1997Jan3.081844.7799@seer.demon.co.uk>, paul@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) wrote: > In <alan-0201971308590001@129.212.7.98> Alan Bomberger wrote: > > In article <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk>, > > paul@griffin.plsys.co.uk (Paul Lynch) wrote: > > > Please remember to distinuguish between Mach (a kernel) and MachOS, a > version > > > of BSD 4.3 with the kernel replaced by Mach. I would have been much > happier > > > if NeXT never started this confusion by referring to their BSD Unix port > as > > > MachOS. > > > > Is not NEXT based on Mach 2.5 which is basically a BSD unix with > > Mach messages but was what defined Mach at the time? Mach 3 is a kernel > > on its own with a Unix personality as an "application". > > No.... NeXTSTEP is based on the Mach 2.5 kernel (more or less), plus parts of > BSD 4.3. The kernel is not the same as BSD Unix, by a factor of many > hundreds of programs. Mach 3.0, as you say, does it very differently, but it > is still a kernel and needs the support of a form of Unix to become a > complete OS. No? I have seen a Mach 2.5 kernel and it looked remarkably like a BSD kernel with added system calls for message interfaces to system functions. Except for a handful of changed system calls BSD binaries should run on Mach 2.5 kernels (alas, brk()/sbrk() was one of those changed and that eliminates statically linked programs with malloc()...) I admit this point is not worth arguing and I may have had my tunnel vision active at the time. Mach 2.5 looks like it was generated from the BSD source tree with small changes to many modules and significant replacements (eg. the API for memory management). I agree that Mach 3.0 needs something to become complete but would argue that there are many APIs that would qualify other than Unix. -- Alan Bomberger | (408)-992-2748 | alan@oes.amdahl.com Amdahl Corporation | Opinions are free, worth it, and not Amdahl's Hypertext Word Processor - www.webcom.com/thinker
From: cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 13:53:25 -0500 Organization: University of Maine System Message-ID: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd really like to see Apple put the Finder on the new OS, but expand it to absorb all the functionality of NEXTSTEP's File Viewer in browser view. The Finder could offer a new view option, say 'by Pane', which would change any Finder window into a sort of multi-paned browser-like window. It'd be a very logical evolutionary step for the Finder and would still preserve the old Finder metaphor, which may not be the most efficient way to manage files but is the most intuitive, especially for beginners and less sophisticated users. (Though a lot of more-sophisticated users are quite fond of it too <grin>.) --Chris -- Christopher Wood cwood41@maine.maine.edu D'ohh! <-- in the manner of Homer Simpson
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 3 Jan 1997 20:14:30 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > I'd really like to see Apple put the Finder on the new OS, but > expand it to absorb all the functionality of NEXTSTEP's File > Viewer in browser view. The Finder could offer a new view option, > say 'by Pane', which would change any Finder window into a sort > of multi-paned browser-like window. It'd be a very logical > evolutionary step for the Finder and would still preserve the > old Finder metaphor, which may not be the most efficient way to > manage files but is the most intuitive, especially for beginners > and less sophisticated users. (Though a lot of more-sophisticated > users are quite fond of it too <grin>.) I don't believe that's true. Again, in my experience, people have less trouble dealing with the WorkSpace Manager than with the finder. Mainly for two or three reasons... 1) FileViewer inherintly avoids window heck, 2) While avoiding window heck, it still provides constant visual feed back as to the current location via the path well, and 3) Having certian 'home/known' places like the users home account, and LocalApps makes finding things for the novice easier... Again, that's just my experience...Yours may be different, but I doubt it's a foregone conclusion that the either the finder or the fileViewer is more intuitive. -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us (Robert Braver) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5ajp8g$i8i@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Date: 3 Jan 1997 21:24:09 GMT Control: cancel <5ajp8g$i8i@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Message-ID: <cancel.5ajp8g$i8i@newsfep3.sprintmail.com> Sender: tccs@sprintmail.com Spam cancelled. Autocancel spam type: CDRMEDIA Original Subject: CD-R Media for Sale
From: "Lite 101.1 FM (CFMO)" <mail@cfmo.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: R/E The NeXT Story Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:56:07 -0800 Organization: cfmo radio Message-ID: <32CD9C97.643F@cfmo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anybody can tell me what the name of the book published within the last year or so r/e the story of the NeXT Corporation, it would be greatly appreciated. Pls post or reply to mail@cfmo.com. Many thanks. C. Dubois
From: tim.ramberg@nojunk.mail [Timothy M. Ramberg] Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: 3 Jan 1997 21:59:37 GMT Organization: Tektronix, Inc Distribution: world Message-ID: <5ajvg9$4k5@bvadm.tek.com> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> <32CC28FB.15FB@aw.sgi.com> <5ahijv$93g@news.be.com> In <5ahijv$93g@news.be.com>, dbg@be.com (Dominic Giampaolo) writes: >> There was a long standing rumor years ago that NeXT had developed a new >> multi-processor PPC machine just before dropping the hardware side of >> their business. If that were true, they must have had some solution the >> symmetric multi-processing problem. >> >It's not just a rumor, it is true. A friend of mine worked on the >kernel for it. He said it was up for several months before the >project got canceled. > >--dominic I seem to remember that Canon took over the Next hardware group which may have then got split off as Fire Power systems. Is Fire Power still in business? I know they did come out with PREP compatible SMP PowerPC systems. ==================================================== Timothy M. Ramberg Not a member of the Software Smoke and Mirrors funny sig society. Tektronix, Inc. ====================================================
From: jmh@intrepid.net (Little John) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: cmsg cancel <5ahmgp$73c@news3.texas.net> Control: cancel <5ahmgp$73c@news3.texas.net> Date: 3 Jan 1997 22:29:28 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <5ak188$555@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> This article canceled.
From: Mark Sitkowski <marks@iaccess.COM.AU> Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: cmsg cancel <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU> Control: cancel <32CCF387.446B9B3D@iaccess.COM.AU> Date: 3 Jan 1997 22:29:40 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <5ak18k$556@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> This article canceled.
From: brataas@sn.no (John Brataas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: cmsg cancel <5aitlp$jks@elle.eunet.no> Control: cancel <5aitlp$jks@elle.eunet.no> Date: 3 Jan 1997 22:29:46 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <5ak18q$557@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> This article canceled.
From: m555@ix.netcom.com (Mark Landin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: cmsg cancel <5aj56v$pur@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> Control: cancel <5aj56v$pur@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> Date: 3 Jan 1997 22:29:55 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <5ak193$559@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> This article canceled.
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: 3 Jan 1997 23:01:59 GMT Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <5ak357$t8t@majipoor.cygnus.com> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> Cc: ccintron@gte.net In <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> "Cesár M. Cintron" wrote: > - The very old, very crummy Unix part of Next's OS is far worse than > even the freeware Linux (I know, because I used Linux for several years, > as did my friend). > I'm sure many BSD advocates would disagree with you here. They stick to BSD 4.4 instead of linux because they view linux as a "very crummy unix"-clone. NeXT's OS isn't a very old very crummy unix.. its a somewhat old unix. It's BSD 4.3 with 4.4 extensions. The kernel is also somewhat old, being Mach 2.5 with extensions. They stuck with Mach 2.5 because they don' t want to take the peformance hit of a microkernel..but they have incorporated several dynamic features you'd associate with microkernels. > - The basic foundation of NextStep (which was ported to Windows) is a > language called "Objective C". It's not C, or C++, but a different > variation on them. Next didn't even have an Objective C compiler; they > depended on the freeware GNU Objective C compiler! > First of all, "the foundation of Nextstep" is a misleading term. The kernel and OS are written in C and assembler, just like any other BSD + Mach combination platform (there are others). It's only the GUI and its environments that are written in Objective C. Second, you must HATE BMW and the Sega Saturn .. they use GCC for their embedded development environments. There are several companies like this. The fact that it's freeware doesn't make it unclean. -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com (ex- kzin@email.sjsu.edu) =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Spammers: I charge you for my time, disk, and bandwidth if you post off- topic solicitations for money in the groups I read. $500/post/group.
From: kpfleger@hpp.Stanford.EDU (Karl Pfleger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: access to extended DOS partitions in NS/Intel Date: 3 Jan 1997 23:12:39 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University Distribution: world Message-ID: <5ak3p7$8dn@nntp.Stanford.EDU> I have 3 partitions on the HD of my NS/Intel machine: DOS/Win95, NS, and a 3rd partition what was previous Linux, but I just reformetted to be an extended DOS partition. How do I get the new extended DOS drive to be accessible in NS (e.g., Workspace, unix command line, ...) ? Or is this not possible even though NS is capable of reading the file system? That would seem silly since NS's fdisk understands that the partition is there. -Karl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karl Pfleger kpfleger@cs.stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~kpfleger/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy From: simpson@post.drexel.edu (Homer Simpson) Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Message-ID: <simpson-ya023680000301971910570001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:10:57 -0500 References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com> Organization: Drexel University Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In article <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: > Lawson English wrote: > > No, it's because the QD apps were using non-documented features of QD > > printing. MS is well known for this. > > Jonathan W. Hendry wrote >If GX replaces Quickdraw, then it is the responsibility of GX >to match the behavior of QuickDraw. Blaming pre-existing applications >for incompatabilities in new software is pretty lame. >It's not like Apple doesn't have the source to QuickDraw. Ummm excuse me but if someone tells you "don't touch that or you'll get burned" and you do touch it and you did get burned whose fault is it?
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:35:26 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32CDA5CE.317C@exnext.com> References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com> <simpson-ya023680000301971910570001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Homer Simpson wrote: > > In article <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: > > > Lawson English wrote: > > > No, it's because the QD apps were using non-documented features of QD > > > printing. MS is well known for this. > > > > > Jonathan W. Hendry wrote > >If GX replaces Quickdraw, then it is the responsibility of GX > >to match the behavior of QuickDraw. Blaming pre-existing applications > >for incompatabilities in new software is pretty lame. > > >It's not like Apple doesn't have the source to QuickDraw. > > Ummm excuse me but if someone tells you "don't touch that or you'll get > burned" and you do touch it and you did get burned whose fault is it? If you're the OS vendor, and you're writing something that you want users to install, and software developers to use, it's generally a good idea to make sure your new gadget works with the most popular software available. Especially in essential functions like printing. Otherwise, your new gadget doesn't get used. This is exactly the situation that GX is in. Blaming vendors who break GX might be cathartic, but it doesn't make GX any more popular. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 21:29:04 -0500 Organization: University of Maine System Message-ID: <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > I don't believe that's true. Again, in my experience, people have > less trouble dealing with the WorkSpace Manager than with the finder. > Mainly for two or three reasons... 1) FileViewer inherintly avoids > window heck, 2) While avoiding window heck, it still provides > constant visual feed back as to the current location via the path > well, and 3) Having certian 'home/known' places like the users home > account, and LocalApps makes finding things for the novice easier... > Again, that's just my experience...Yours may be different, but I > doubt it's a foregone conclusion that the either the finder or the > fileViewer is more intuitive. I still think that the Finder maintains the illusion of direct manipulation better. Myself, I've used a browser before (Greg's Browser), and I liked it well enough, but I could never shake the feeling that the thing was putting up a kind of glass wall between me and the disk and that I wasn't really getting at the files themselves but just manipulating little facsimiles of them. Of course everyone's different and my experience isn't everyone else's, but I suspect that many folks do find the Finder's direct manipulation more intuitive. Mind you, when I say that I want the Finder to be in the new OS, I'm not visualizing a system 7 (or even 8) desktop with a menu bar at the top and a stip of icons down the right. I like NEXTSTEP's desktop with the floating menu strips and the dock. But I really would like to be able to deal with files with the Finder metaphor, and I'm convinced that all the functionality of the current NEXTSTEP File Veiwer could be rolled into this new Finder. --Chris -- Christopher Wood cwood41@maine.maine.edu D'ohh! <-- in the manner of Homer Simpson
From: bbq@wam.umd.edu (BBQ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: FS:NeXT Cube Date: 3 Jan 1997 22:25:29 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Message-ID: <5akij9$jl7@rac10.wam.umd.edu> Newsgroups: dc.forsale,dc.forsale.computers,um.forsale,balt.forsale Subject: NeXT Cube forsale Summary: Expires: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Keywords: Cc: I have one NeXT Cube forsale. 16MB RAM 660MB Hard Drive 230Magnetic Optical drive (I believe, don't know if it works though) 17" megapixel monitor, I don't know what they sold it as, the standard greyscale monitor Keyboard and mouse Currently has the OS loaded and running, though I don't have the disks SCSI,Ethernet,etc on the back of course I also have the NeXT laser printer that goes with this. 400DPI. The print output is great with the toner I tested in it, but it needs a new one. And the paper loading is slightly stiff, just needs a little work, but works I am asking $1000, but I am definitely open to offers. bbq
From: woody@alumni.caltech.edu (William Edward Woody) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 22:25:06 -0800 Organization: In Phase Consulting Message-ID: <woody-0301972225060001@192.0.2.1> References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com> <simpson-ya023680000301971910570001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> <32CDA5CE.317C@exnext.com> In article <32CDA5CE.317C@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: > If you're the OS vendor, and you're writing something that you want > users to install, and software developers to use, it's generally > a good idea to make sure your new gadget works with the most popular > software available. Especially in essential functions like > printing. Otherwise, your new gadget doesn't get used. *Giggle* Guess you haven't had to deal with the Great White Software Vender in the NorthWest. I remember when application heap zones were allocated from the top of memory downwards. The reason for this was to attempt to leave the bottom 1 megabyte free--reserved for Microsoft applications. Now why would Apple do this? Because you see, Microsoft came up with this rather lame P-code interpreter for writing their applications, which created a 'virtual 8086' environment for their Windows applications that were ported to the Macintosh. And you see, their p-code interpreter had this bug: it was using segement/offset addressing internally, and of course 16-bit segments with 16-bit offsets and a 16-byte page size only allows you to address the first one megabyte of memory... So when the Mac Multifinder widget would encounter a Microsoft product, it would load it into the first megabyte of memory... Microsoft is infamous for this kind of kludery. I guess if NeXT was a target platform for their developers, Microsoft is the type of company which would require special drivers to be recompiled into the Mach microkernel in order to allow the display postscript to interpret Windows metafiles. (Yeah, I know this wouldn't *normally* be the place to do this. But you don't know Microsoft!) Now should we blame NeXT for releasing a newer version of the Mach microkernel, because they didn't make it backwards compatable with the Microsoft WMF hack? "If you're the OS vendor, and you're writing something that you want users to install, and software developers to use, it's generally a good idea to make sure your new gadget works with the most popular software available." Which, by your logic, would require NeXT to make OpenStep run-time compatable with Microsoft Windows. Oh, wait a minute! "Otherwise, your new gadget doesn't get used." Eight hundred bazillion Windows 3.1 users can't be wrong... :-) - Bill (Who by the way dislikes software venders who refuse to play by the rules precisely because it yanks control of an operating system from the OS vender to the hackers who can't be bothered to read the f-cking manual....) -- William Edward Woody - In Phase Consulting - woody@alumni.caltech.edu http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~woody
From: crobato@kuentos.guam.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: BeOS and NeXT? Date: 4 Jan 1997 07:27:07 GMT Organization: Kuentos Message-ID: <5al0ob$gps@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> References: <851492904.25627@dejanews.com> <01bbf399$a215bca0$81c289ce@ns1.ilinks.net> <1996Dec27.151651.90966@cc.usu.edu> <x6681hc1b2.fsf@beavis.smallworks.com> <1997Jan2.192555.5024@seer.demon.co.uk> <32CC28FB.15FB@aw.sgi.com> <5ahijv$93g@news.be.com> <5ajvg9$4k5@bvadm.tek.com> In <5ajvg9$4k5@bvadm.tek.com>, tim.ramberg@nojunk.mail [Timothy M. Ramberg] writes: >In <5ahijv$93g@news.be.com>, dbg@be.com (Dominic Giampaolo) writes: >>> There was a long standing rumor years ago that NeXT had developed a new >>> multi-processor PPC machine just before dropping the hardware side of >>> their business. If that were true, they must have had some solution the >>> symmetric multi-processing problem. >>> >>It's not just a rumor, it is true. A friend of mine worked on the >>kernel for it. He said it was up for several months before the >>project got canceled. >> >>--dominic > >I seem to remember that Canon took over the Next hardware group >which may have then got split off as Fire Power systems. > >Is Fire Power still in business? I know they did come out with >PREP compatible SMP PowerPC systems. > I think they got bought out by Motorola, and the designs become part of the PowerStack series. Rgds, Chris Famous People on the Day Windows 95 is Launched--- Neil Armstrong---"One Small Fortune for Bill Gates, One Giant Leap backward for Mankind." President Roosevelt---"This date shall live in infamy." *** crobato@kuentos.guam.net *** TKS for the Contributions.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 20:56:57 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972056570001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <5a2i4a$3rl@duke.squonk.net> <AEEAC2C5-BE056@198.68.42.142> <5a673o$2eq@precipice.fdn.fr> <ldo-0101970604560001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C8E90A.5FD6@trilithon.com> In article <32C8E90A.5FD6@trilithon.com>, henry@trilithon.com wrote: >Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > > * I seem to recall a mention on comp.lang.postscript > * that there was a Display PostScript limitation on > * creating bitmaps larger than 3072 by 3072 pixels. > * This was deliberate, to prevent you from using Display > * PostScript as an excuse to avoid buying an overpriced > * PostScript printer. >Bollocks. > >There were/are limitations on the *resolution*, and thus >the total size of the bitmap image, which were forced >upon Next/Adobe by Adobe's high-end [imagesetter] licensees >like Linotype-Hell and others. The limitations are not >inherent in the Display PostScript System. So is it possible to buy a Display PostScript system without those restrictions? I mean, if they're inherent in the licensing for Display PostScript, that means they're inherent in Display PostScript, and there's no escaping that, right? For more info about QuickDraw GX, a next-generation, un-crippled graphics/printing architecture, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:38:06 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972138060001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <5a515o$lrj@news.wco.com> In article <5a515o$lrj@news.wco.com>, mpaque@wco.com (Mike Paquette) wrote: >Has QuickDraw GX been implemented on any platforms other than the >MacIntosh? I believe the graphics engine has been shown running under Windows NT. But the graphics/printing integration is going to remain uniquely Mac.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:42:10 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> In article <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: >rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: >> In article <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: >> )Funny, I could have *sworn* I saw clips of Star Wars running >> full speed, )on NeXTSTEP. And I'm pretty sure NeXT wasn't using >> QuckdrawGX back then, )in June of 1994. The clips weren't being >> displayed flip-book style on )a laser printer, either. > >> I never said DPS couldn't blit... Blitting isn't enough these >> days. Start overlaying a few transparent (and CMYK for kicks) >> layers, clipping them to arbitrary shapes, etc. DPS' architecture >> just isn't up to that. GX handles it with ease and speed. > >This was done in 1988 with DPS... NeXT was using .movie files >(i.e. PS) to show animation with, guess what, over-laid transparent >layers, text and arbitrary shapes, etc.... Imagine that, all on >an 68030. Yes, but could you print the images on a PostScript printer? >-) By the way, as recently as 1995, one of the GX engineers told me he kept a Mac IIcx and SE/30 specifically for making sure that GX ran acceptably on such low-end hardware. These were machines with 8MB of RAM, and a 68030 running at 16MHz--see <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/gx/tom/other.html>. I don't think Display PostScript was ever capable of running on such hardware. :-)
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:47:20 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972147210001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net> In article <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: >rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > >> GX was designed from the **beginning** to produce excellent >> Postscript output for devices that needed it. In fact if you >> consider transparency GX is actually better at it than DPS. Why? >> DPS supports transparency but PS Level II does not, that means >> that if you're DPS code uses transparency on screen *you* will >> have to do the segmentation necessary to get proper output. GX >> does it for you. > >Offhand I think this is one of those issues that Apple (or Adobe) >should fix in DPS. It really is a shame that it's so easy to do >transparency when writing to the screen, and then you suddenly >have a few extra steps to go thru for that transparency info to >be correctly printed. Consider how you would "fix" it: you would need to translate the results of the overlapping of non-opaque shapes to the opaque PostScript model. This means calculating all the areas of overlaps, and calculating the results of combining the colours and transfer modes in each overlapping region, then replacing each region with an opaque piece of the resultant colour. Funnily enough, QuickDraw GX already provides functions that let you do all these things....
From: marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 00:56:47 -0800 Organization: Northwest Link Message-ID: <marke-0401970056470001@ip063.mu2.nwlink.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000201970440470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0201971924090001@ip005.mu3.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000301970303090001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000301970303090001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > )2. Mach 3.0 is already running on most PowerMacs via the MkLinux project > > *Barely* running is more like it. They still don't support a couple of > million Performa users out there, 8500 users like myself can't use it > because of quirks with the video drivers... Again Nukernel gets around > these, plus all current drivers for PCI boards will work unchanged under Oh really? So you are running NuKernel right now? Don't get me wrong, if NuKernel is the best thing to use, by all means do so. But I'm not holding my breath. Mach is what provides the BSD personality that NextStep is based on. And your assertion that QTML et al already running on NuKernel would make ports to the new OS easier is ill founded. -- ---> marke@nwlink.com
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:50:01 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972150020001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C85ADD.6801@exnext.com> <AEEDBAF2-73C70@198.68.42.169> In article <AEEDBAF2-73C70@198.68.42.169>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: >>> I never said DPS couldn't blit... Blitting isn't enough these days. >>> Start overlaying a few transparent (and CMYK for kicks) layers, clipping >>> them to arbitrary shapes, etc. DPS' architecture just isn't up to that. >GX >>> handles it with ease and speed. >> >>Has this been empirically proven? Or is it just theory/hype? > >I don't know about speed. It's part of the API to switch between color >spaces automatically with the transfer modes: source/destination color >spaces are contained within the ink object that specifies the transfer >type; specialized matrices for handling specialized tasks dealing with >transfer types and conversions between color spaces are also part of ink >objects. For a technical description of the process and the options available, see <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/gx/transfermodes.html>. There's also a Java applet there so you can get a small taste of what's it like to use this interactively. And for a user-oriented introduction to the next-generation graphics and printing features of QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:58:34 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> In article <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu>, howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) wrote: >These people who are crusading for GX are whistling past the graveyard. Trouble is, GX solves a great number of real problems that both Mac users and developers have been moaning about for years. It offers a powerful, customizable next-generation architecture that the Mac desperately needs. For instance, it seems hardly a week goes by without somebody asking, on some newsgroup I frequent, how they can print just the even or odd pages from a document, so they can get double-sided output on a single-sided printer. This is the kind of feature that logically belongs in-between the printer driver and the application, since it is useful across different printer drivers and across different applications. GX provides the concept of "printing extensions" that allow third-party add-ons to supply this sort of feature in a clean, well-behaved way. Like my Duplex Helper <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/sw/index.html#DuplexHelper> does. For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 22:10:08 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972210080001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: >Now [GX] does have a good printing model also, >but its functionality is less important to users than that of the graphics >engine. I'd like to disagree with Eric here. GX printing is the one thing that gives users immediate benefits out of the box. Actually, the benefits come from the whole graphics/printing integration, since a lot of the neat printing features would simply not be possible if it weren't for the power of the underlying graphics engine (eg watermarks that work on both PostScript and non-PostScript printers). For a hint of what else might be possible, have a read of my proposal for attaching URL tags to GX shapes <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/gx/URLTags.html>. Imagine being able to attach "hot links" to graphics, pasting them into existing GX-unaware applications (ClarisWorks, Microsoft Word, whatever), printing the results through a GX printer driver that generates Acrobat PDF, HTML or some other cross-platform format, and--voila! Custom-formatted Web pages, the component-software way! >)> Just using looking at the redraw speed of Illustrator vs. Lightning Draw. >)> (A version 1.0.x product, unlike Illustrator which is at version 6.0) >) >)this is pure FUD. Illustrator has a lot more features than LD. > > Actually you know one would think that at first, but GX gives LD some >incredible flexibility. I own both and LD lets me get a lot of the effects >I want sooner and with less work. As far as features go Illustrator can not >touch LD GX in terms of color handling or graphics redraw speed. Text >handling is somewhat close. Before anybody else tries to claim that Illustrator is better than Lightning Draw, spend some time reading the description of how ink effects work at <http://www.larisoftware.com/Support/Inks.html>. And if you're an Illustrator user, you can weep afterwards... >If Adobe has some wickedly fast and very portable DPS engine why >aren't they using it in their Postscript-based Mac apps? I wonder about this too. I think one of the biggest arguments against Display PostScript is that Adobe themselves are reluctant to support it...
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 22:16:47 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> In article <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com>, marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: >In article <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, >rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: >> >> No it's not. If you use one of DPS' calls that isn't in Postscript, then >> it won't print. The question is will the DPS3 engine support transparency >> while printing to PSLevel2 printers. > >You can't have it both ways. DPS and GX both have features not found in PS >level 2. No, the extra features won't print from DPS, neither will they >from GX. They do from GX. That's the beauty of GX--that it includes a next-generation printing architecture that handles the headaches of generating good PostScript to give a faithful WYSIWYG representation of your graphics, taking care of things like Level 2 and Level 1 compatibility, splitting of complex paths, font subsetting, managing printer memory and so on, so you don't have to! >The point is, do you work in one imaging model and output to >another, or work and output in the same imaging model? The trouble with PostScript is, it's not just the imaging model, it's all the programming-language baggage that goes with it. Consider what happens when someone gives you a Level 2 PostScript file, but all you've got is a Level 1 PostScript printer to print it on. Identical imaging model, right? But can you print it? Not a hope. That's why QuickDraw GX lets you take a step backwards from all this nonsense, so you can create high-quality graphics without having to worry about the limitations of PostScript. For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 22:29:07 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0401972229070001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32CA02CD.FCB@exnext.com> <AEF00E65-1809E@198.68.42.207> <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com> In article <32CAC472.C4A@exnext.com>, jon@exnext.com wrote: >Lawson English wrote: >> >> Jonathan W. Hendry <jon@exnext.com> said: >> >> >> Come on, John. You know this is because of poor support for GX by apps, >> >> not because of GX itself. >> > >> >If GX replaces QuickDraw, then it's a bug in GX. >> > >> >> No, it's because the QD apps were using non-documented features of QD >> printing. MS is well known for this. > >If GX replaces Quickdraw, then it is the responsibility of GX >to match the behavior of QuickDraw. Blaming pre-existing applications >for incompatabilities in new software is pretty lame. Consider applications that were generating their own PostScript code to achieve effects that the old QuickDraw graphics engine were incapable of doing (yes, there were lots of them :-)). In particular, consider special text effects. To do these, you need to make sure the font you're using is loaded into the printer as part of the print job. How did you ask the old QuickDraw printing system to load a font for you? There was no API call for it--instead, you used the standard QuickDraw text calls to print a single character from that font, someplace where it wouldn't appear on the page (for this reason, the space character was a common choice). Once you'd done this, you could assume that the entire font was loaded and available for your custom PostScript code to use. Trouble is, this is relying on some pretty dumb behaviour of the old QuickDraw Printing Manager. Loading an entire font just to print one character is rather inefficient, after all. Enter the all-new QuickDraw GX printing architecture, and this "space hack" no longer works, because GX is much cleverer in how it manages fonts and printer memory. On the other hand, GX provides explicit API calls that you can use to include fonts in a PostScript print job, reencode them, subset them, whatever--all under your control, without relying on undocumented behaviour of the driver-generated PostScript code or other such nonsense. For GX to faithfully reproduce all the bugs and other stupidities of the old QuickDraw Printing Manager would mean losing a lot of the point of having a next-generation printing architecture. For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 4 Jan 1997 09:47:28 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: > The trouble with PostScript is, it's not just the imaging model, > it's all the programming-language baggage that goes with it. > Consider what happens when someone gives you a Level 2 PostScript > file, but all you've got is a Level 1 PostScript printer to print > it on. Identical imaging model, right? But can you print it? Not > a hope. Some think that's it strength. Furthermore... I've had no problems printing from DPS Level 2 to a level 1 printer. It just works. Also, the relatively simple composting required to get transparencies to print have already been done in several apps, and would be relatively easy to implement system wide... > That's why QuickDraw GX lets you take a step backwards from all > this nonsense, so you can create high-quality graphics without > having to worry about the limitations of PostScript. Sill limitations like actually printing w/o problems... -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: marcel@spock.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 4 Jan 1997 11:01:04 GMT Organization: Unlimited Surprise Systems, Berlin Distribution: world Message-ID: <5ald9g$4g0$1@unlisys.unlisys.net> References: <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence Dliveiro) writes: > By the way, as recently as 1995, one of the GX engineers told me he kept a > Mac IIcx and SE/30 specifically for making sure that GX ran acceptably on > such low-end hardware. These were machines with 8MB of RAM, and a 68030 > running at 16MHz--see <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/gx/tom/other.html>. > > I don't think Display PostScript was ever capable of running on such > hardware. :-) Well darn, you really got us there, the first cubes had an 030 running at 25MHz. Marcel
From: jkeenan@next.com (Joe Keenan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: access to extended DOS partitions in NS/Intel Date: 4 Jan 1997 13:18:30 GMT Organization: NeXT Software, Inc. Distribution: world Message-ID: <5allb6$5in@news.next.com> References: <5ak3p7$8dn@nntp.Stanford.EDU> In article <5ak3p7$8dn@nntp.Stanford.EDU> kpfleger@hpp.Stanford.EDU (Karl Pfleger) writes: > I have 3 partitions on the HD of my NS/Intel machine: DOS/Win95, NS, and a > 3rd partition what was previous Linux, but I just reformetted to be an > extended DOS partition. How do I get the new extended DOS drive to be > accessible in NS (e.g., Workspace, unix command line, ...) ? > Or is this not possible even though NS is capable of reading the file > system? That would seem silly since NS's fdisk understands that the > partition is there. No, it's not possible. fdisk understands the partition table, but the DOS file system itself only understands primary partitions, not extended/logical partitions. A big hole, I agree, but that's what we've currently got. joe
From: guenther@golem.golem.franken.de (Guenther Fuerthaller) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 4 Jan 1997 13:32:28 GMT Organization: Kommunikationsnetz Franken e.V. Message-ID: <5alm5c$kof@chico.franken.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net> <ldo-0401972147210001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: >In article <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn ><gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: > >>rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: >> >>> GX was designed from the **beginning** to produce excellent >>> Postscript output for devices that needed it. In fact if you >>> consider transparency GX is actually better at it than DPS. Why? >>> DPS supports transparency but PS Level II does not, that means >>> that if you're DPS code uses transparency on screen *you* will >>> have to do the segmentation necessary to get proper output. GX >>> does it for you. >> >>Offhand I think this is one of those issues that Apple (or Adobe) >>should fix in DPS. It really is a shame that it's so easy to do >>transparency when writing to the screen, and then you suddenly >>have a few extra steps to go thru for that transparency info to >>be correctly printed. > >Consider how you would "fix" it: you would need to translate the results >of the overlapping of non-opaque shapes to the opaque PostScript model. >This means calculating all the areas of overlaps, and calculating the >results of combining the colours and transfer modes in each overlapping >region, then replacing each region with an opaque piece of the resultant >colour. > >Funnily enough, QuickDraw GX already provides functions that let you do >all these things.... Unfortunately this algorithm has a general worst case complexity of pow(2,N), where N is the number of painting primitives on the page. >The trouble with PostScript is, it's not just the imaging model, it's all the >programming-language baggage that goes with it. Consider what happens when >someone gives you a Level 2 PostScript file, but all you've got is a Level 1 >PostScript printer to print it on. Identical imaging model, right? But can you >print it? Not a hope. >That's why QuickDraw GX lets you take a step backwards from all this nonsense, >so you can create high-quality graphics without having to worry about the >limitations of PostScript. I can't take people serious that first do not respect the advantages of having a programming language inside the output device and that second believe that anything that works fine on their desktop at 72 dpi and with their desktop printer at a few hundreds dpi still works the same way at 3000 dpi and more (that's what the PostScript imaging model is designed for). And please do not reply now that therefore PostScript should stay in its printer.
From: tgritton@sprynet.com (Terry Gritton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:35:51 -0800 Organization: ^self -> (CompSci/MolBiol) Message-ID: <tgritton-ya023180000401970835510001@news.sprynet.com> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: >cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: >> I'd really like to see Apple put the Finder on the new OS, but >> expand it to absorb all the functionality of NEXTSTEP's File >> Viewer in browser view. PopupFolder already proviedes File Viewer functionality. > >I don't believe that's true. Again, in my experience, people have >less trouble dealing with the WorkSpace Manager than with the finder. >Mainly for two or three reasons... 1) FileViewer inherintly avoids >window heck, 2) While avoiding window heck, it still provides >constant visual feed back as to the current location via the path >well, and 3) Having certian 'home/known' places like the users home >account, and LocalApps makes finding things for the novice easier... Again see PopupFolder, takes up less window realestate than File Viewer with no 'window heck'. Combined with the ability to see 'up' the directory path by pressing on the Finder window title ( Now utilities option I believe) and drilling 'down' via PopupFolder gives you better functionality now on the Mac. File Viewer will be a step backwards. -- -- Terry Gritton "Glycobiology - the new frontier of biosemiotics" tgritton@sprynet.com
From: elitman@viaduct.com (Eric Litman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: R/E The NeXT Story Date: 4 Jan 1997 18:10:00 GMT Organization: Viaduct Technologies, Inc. Message-ID: <5am6do$h3b@news3.digex.net> References: <32CD9C97.643F@cfmo.com> Lite 101.1 FM (CFMO) (mail@cfmo.com) wrote: # If anybody can tell me what the name of the book published within the # last year or so r/e the story of the NeXT Corporation, it would be # greatly appreciated. "Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing", I think. </eal>
From: chrisf@chesapeake.net (CF Publishing) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix Subject: We Create Web Pages! Date: 4 Jan 1997 18:30:51 GMT Organization: CF Publishing Message-ID: <5am7kr$drl@tommy.chesapeake.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Do you or your company want to be seen by millions of people via the Internet but not have the ability to accomplish this by yourself? A lot of people have this yearn, but do not have the means of achieving this. The solution to this problem is simple. I will publish your web page for you, and put it up on a web server of your choice. There, with proper advertising, it can be seen by millions! Your page will be complete with graphics, frames, and the text that you want. All you need to do is send me the ideas you have for your page, any text you would like to see there, and I will create it for a minimal fee. This is a great way of letting your friends and family worldwide keep in touch with you, or let your business be seen! Many businesses have pamphlets or brochures that they create to keep their customers informed. With your own web page, we can publish your pamphlets or brochures online so your customers can view them with ease. We can even set up forms to allow them to mail in their orders securely! We guarantee that our pages that we create will please you, and if they do not, there is no charge to you. Our guarantee can not be beat. We will publish your pages for you, and them show them to you for your approval. You may then suggest any changes that you wish to be made. If these changes do not make you absolutely happy, you will not be billed for our services. We do not want our customers to be unhappy with any of our services, so we will continue to make changes to keep the pages we create closest to the pages you originally showed us. Our prices for web publishing can not be beat. We will beat any other written estimate you may have. If you are interested in any of our services, simple email us at chrisf@chesapeake.net, or call us at (301) 855-9902. Thank you for your interest in our services.
From: jmiller <jmiller@rogerswave.ca> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 23:46:49 -0400 Organization: Rogers Communications Ltd. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz?
From: Bryan Wilson <wil-design@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re:NS 3.3 AppleTalk options !appear Preferences app Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:24:46 +0000 Organization: Wil-Design Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32CE763E.79DA@worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am running NeXTStep 3.3 on a Intel machine. I am trying to connect to an AppleTalk network. The machine connects fine to a NetWare 4 network. I have perused all available docs at NeXTanswers and it mentions the Apple icon that appears in the window brought up by the Preferences application ( display, mouse settings, etc. ). The problem is that the Apple icon does not appear at all. NeXT's docs state that the AppleTalk client is included with NS 3.3. Is there a special driver or installation option that need tobe loaded / selected in order to communicate with AppleTalk devices? I am using a Intel EtherExpress 16 network card and NS 3.3's driver for it. I have not been able to try another network card ( or another mfr's driver either ) yet... Please e-mail me at wldesign@jax.jaxnet.com if you have been successful in connecting NeXTStep to AppleTalk machines / printers via EtherNet. I will post a solution when it has been found to usenet. Thanks! Bryan wldesign@jax.janet.com
From: Bryan Wilson <wil-design@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: NS 3.3 AppleTalk options !appear Preferences app Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:49:52 +0000 Organization: Wil-Design Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32CE7C20.45BA@worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am running NeXTStep 3.3 on a Intel machine. I am trying to connect to an AppleTalk network. The machine connects fine to a NetWare 4 network. I have perused all available docs at NeXTanswers and it mentions the Apple icon that appears in the window brought up by the Preferences application ( display, mouse settings, etc. ). The problem is that the Apple icon does not appear at all. NeXT's docs state that the AppleTalk client is included with NS 3.3. Is there a special driver or installation option that need tobe loaded / selected in order to communicate with AppleTalk devices? I am using a Intel EtherExpress 16 network card and NS 3.3's driver for it. I have not been able to try another network card ( or another mfr's driver either ) yet... Please e-mail me at wldesign@jax.jaxnet.com if you have been successful in connecting NeXTStep to AppleTalk machines / printers via EtherNet. I will post a solution when it has been found to usenet. Thanks! Bryan wldesign@jax.janet.com
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 4 Jan 1997 20:57:40 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5amg84$i96@news3.digex.net> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <tgritton-ya023180000401970835510001@news.sprynet.com> tgritton@sprynet.com (Terry Gritton) wrote: > In article <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net > wrote: > >I don't believe that's true. Again, in my experience, people > >have less trouble dealing with the WorkSpace Manager than with > >the finder. Mainly for two or three reasons... 1) FileViewer > >inherintly avoids window heck, 2) While avoiding window heck, > >it still provides constant visual feed back as to the current > >location via the path well, and 3) Having certian 'home/known' > >places like the users home account, and LocalApps makes finding > >things for the novice easier... > Again see PopupFolder, takes up less window realestate than File > Viewer with no 'window heck'. Combined with the ability to see > 'up' the directory path by pressing on the Finder window title > ( Now utilities option I believe) and drilling 'down' via > PopupFolder gives you better functionality now on the Mac. File > Viewer will be a step backwards. Again, in practice they are very different. The path well gives CONSTANT visual feedback. Plus the process is more fluid, no option or cmd keys needed. Furthermore, the PathWell is more self explanatory that hitting a window title with the cmnd key and getting a list. -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: mlbizer@mail.utexas.eduu (Marc Bizer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:47:47 +0100 Organization: University of Texas at Austin Message-ID: <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: >I don't think Display PostScript was ever capable of running on such >hardware. :-) Dear Lawrence, Well, it did run fine on a 25 MHz '030, since that was the original NeXT processor. --Marc Bizer
From: Isaac <isaac@lab.housing.fsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: frivolous monitor question Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 03:59:30 -0500 Organization: Florida State University Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961231035613.31623A-100000@lab.housing.fsu.edu> References: <jak-ya023680003012961534300001@news.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <jak-ya023680003012961534300001@news.asu.edu> On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, John Kestner wrote: > > Do any of the black NeXT color monitors have the same cool stand the mono > monitors do? Do all the mono monitors have that stand? (I'm referring to > the original stand.) I presume you mean the cool rolling stand. The answer is no. This is because the colour screens were all manufactured by other companies for NeXT. Only the MegaPixel screens were made in-house. Also, later MegaPixels (model N4000B) have a more streamlined tilting base that still looks pretty cool (but does not have the ribs or rubber rollers). -Isaac
From: REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:57:20 -0500 Organization: Univ. Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center Message-ID: <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-ya02408000R0401971557200001@news.uth.tmc.edu> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com>, wrf3@mindspring.com (Bob Felts) wrote: > Does anybody besides me think that "Apple's marketing prowess" is > an oxymoron? I think it's a joke. -- David Gutierrez drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
From: REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:58:18 -0500 Organization: Univ. Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center Message-ID: <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-ya02408000R0401971558180001@news.uth.tmc.edu> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <5aab42$ho1@stc06.ctd.ornl.gov> <5abgns$fdl@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> <guyo-3112962046060001@dyn114.island.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <guyo-3112962046060001@dyn114.island.net>, guyo@island.net (Guy René Ouellette) wrote: > Let's hope that the marketing of the merged Apple/NeXT is better than the > marketing of either one! Considering that Next's marketing has had even less effect than Apple's, I don't think Next is going to help much. -- David Gutierrez drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
From: news@cmc.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix Subject: cmsg cancel <5am7kr$drl@tommy.chesapeake.net> Date: 4 Jan 1997 22:26:35 GMT Control: cancel <5am7kr$drl@tommy.chesapeake.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5am7kr$drl@tommy.chesapeake.net> Sender: chrisf@chesapeake.net (CF Publishing) Spam cancelled by news@cmc.net
From: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 4 Jan 1997 21:59:24 GMT Organization: J. W. Goethe-Universitaet Frankfurt/Main Message-ID: <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > I like NEXTSTEP's desktop with the floating > menu strips and the dock. But I really would like to be able to deal with > files with the Finder metaphor Could you shortly explain to NEXTSTEP users what this special "Finder metaphor" is about? I've alway thought it is what NEXTSTEP delivers in the "Icon view" setting of WorkspaceManager, so I don't understand what this discussion is all about. (Unfortunately, there's no "Introduction to Apple for NEXTSTEP users" floating around on the net ;-) ) Bye Uli -- ______________________________________________________________________ Uli Zappe E-Mail: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (NeXTMail,Mime,ASCII) PGP on request Lorscher Strasse 5 WWW: - D-60489 Frankfurt Fon: +49 (69) 9784 0007 Germany Fax: +49 (69) 9784 0042 staff member of NEXTTOYOU - the German NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP magazine ______________________________________________________________________
From: marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:04:11 -0800 Organization: Northwest Link Message-ID: <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> In article <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de>, uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) wrote: > cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > > I like NEXTSTEP's desktop with the floating > > menu strips and the dock. But I really would like to be able to deal with > > files with the Finder metaphor > > Could you shortly explain to NEXTSTEP users what this special "Finder > metaphor" is about? I've alway thought it is what NEXTSTEP delivers in the > "Icon view" setting of WorkspaceManager, so I don't understand what this > discussion is all about. (Unfortunately, there's no "Introduction to Apple > for NEXTSTEP users" floating around on the net ;-) ) for the most part, yes. But some things are missing from that - some more important than others. For instance - the desktop. Also, the things that can be put on the desktop (besides files and folders). Things like desktop printers. Now I'm not saying that the desktop metaphor is crucial to the success of the new platform, but it would be strange not having it. (Not to mention the advocacy FUD it would generate from the W95 people that now have it - after what, 10 years?) Some NeXTers mention the never-released "tabbed shelf". From what I've seen it would do the trick - with one minor change, allow it to optionally NOT organize everything to a grid. The tabs allow even more organizational space in which to stick stuff like printers, files, etc. Copland had tabbed windows, i.e. any Finder window could be turned into a tabbed drawer at the bottom of the screen. The results of a search could be saved as a window - which would automatically update as the file system changed. For instance a search of apps which can open JPEGs could then be saved as a tabbed drawer. If the user downloads JPEGView its icon is automatically added to the drawer. THIS I would like to see in the "tabbed shelf" (someday). In the future, I would like to see the Workspace API made available so that drop-in views could be created that would supplement the browser, icon view, and list view that Workspace already has. The summer OS release, Tempo, is supposed to allow this by using OpenDoc as the machanism. -- ---> marke@nwlink.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep From: mattj@invisix.com Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Message-ID: <147cd$122425.32d@news.goldengate.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 00:36:37 GMT References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> jmiller <jmiller@rogerswave.ca> wrote: >If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: >They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) >They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > You can overclock a Pentium CPU on certain motherboards for faster MHz speeds. -- MATT | mailto:mattj@invisix.com NeXTMail Ok jurcich | http://www.invisix.com Silicon Graphics Personal Iris 4D/25G, 16MB, 800MB, 20", Irix 5.3 NeXTstation Turbo Color, 24MB, 250MB, NEC XP21, NEXTSTEP 3.2
From: mpappas@mpd.gulf.net (Mark Pappas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTstation & Printers Date: 5 Jan 1997 00:50:28 GMT Organization: The Gulf Coast Internet Company Message-ID: <5amtsk$a5v@cobia.gulf.net> I have a Apple Personal Laserwriter LS (el cheap-o). I want to hook it up to my NeXTstation, Does anyone know if there are any drivers for this printer. Its a non post-script laserwriter. -- Thanks Mark Pappas ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Pappas Development E-Mail: mpd@gulf.net Consultant http://www.gulf.net/~mpd/ 3915 Lynn Ora Dr. Phone: (904) 476-3773 Pensacola, FL 32504 Specializing in Macintosh Databases & NMI's Microbrew
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: We Create Web Pages! Date: 4 Jan 1997 14:43:17 -0800 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Message-ID: <jcr.852417619@idiom.com> References: <5am7kr$drl@tommy.chesapeake.net> chrisf@chesapeake.net (CF Publishing) writes: [most of the spammer's ad deleted] >estimate you may have. If you are interested in any of our services, simple >email us at chrisf@chesapeake.net, or call us at (301) 855-9902. Guys, this is a rare chance to slam a spammer but good. I just tried the number above, and it's live. It appears to be his home number. Call him up, and tell him why it's wrong to spam usenet newsgroups!!! >Thank you for your interest in our services. Yeah, good luck getting a clue, dipshit. -jcr
From: elisha@dot.net.au (Luci Ellis) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:32:49 +1100 Organization: Elisha, Inc Distribution: inet Message-ID: <elisha-ya023180000501971232490001@news.dot.net.au> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <147cd$122425.32d@news.goldengate.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <147cd$122425.32d@news.goldengate.net>, mattj@invisix.com wrote: > jmiller <jmiller@rogerswave.ca> wrote: > >If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: > >They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) > >They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > > > > You can overclock a Pentium CPU on certain motherboards for faster MHz > speeds. > Ditto PowerPC. (Interesting that powerpc.advocacy isn't on the header??) ********************************************************************* Luci Ellis elisha@dot.net.au "Who needs horror movies when we have Microsoft"? -- Christine Comaford, PC Week, 27/9/95
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 20:25:26 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32CF1116.231DE0C5@screaming.org> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> <pxpst2-0201971310460001@path01.pathology.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the wrote: > you are an idiot that does not know JACK. You surely don't know > processors. The PowerPC chip is a generartion ahead of the pentium. Who gives a rat's ass? With platform-independent APIs, hardware becomes a bang-for-the-buck issue. -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: "Cesár M. Cintron" <ccintron@gte.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 22:35:30 +0000 Organization: Merging Point Design Message-ID: <32CEDB2E.5D56@gte.net> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> <5ak357$t8t@majipoor.cygnus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gee's guy's... cut me some slack here... if you read my original post you would have understood a few things 1) I am a Macintosh User 2) I have never touched a machine running NextStep 3) The information I posted is what a friend sent me 4) I stated that my friend's knowledge is taken from his expeirience with the Next Cube 5) I was asking for more information...not looking to be flamed... or wacked on the knuckles... I want to know more... calm down guys... not like I posted a message saying Next sucks and Jobs needs a haircut.... oh and Thomas Funke you were really cute with your post...yup you seem like a very likeable person... I ask for info and you pretty much tell me to get a clue.... thanks... as for Next not making a CPU I was reffering to the NextCube... you do realize that the box on the floor or on your desk that holds the proccessor to your computer is called a CPU by alot of people, don't you... as for everyone who sent me useful information, thank you... at least now I know Apple hasn't gone completely insane...
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.nsc.32k,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.misc,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix Subject: cmsg cancel <jcr.852417619@idiom.com> Control: cancel <jcr.852417619@idiom.com> Date: 5 Jan 1997 03:25:04 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA Message-ID: <5an6ug$edt@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM> This article canceled.
From: Robert Iacullo <eagle@serv.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 19:55:50 -0800 Organization: AMUSE Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jmiller wrote: > > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. -- Robert S Iacullo President-Amiga Users Society Eastside eagle@serv.net http://www.serv.net/~eagle TeamAMIGA
From: younghoon KIL <ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: [Q] Anyone can tell me about AIM's CHRP in 1997? Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 14:46:44 +0900 Organization: KORNET Message-ID: <32CF403D.79D0@soback.kornet.nm.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Apple acquires NeXT and NeXT OS". Anyone can tell me about AIM's CHRP and PowerPC chip in1997 ? IBM and Motorola will continue supports CHRP? Then Apple will port AppleStep to CHRP? Please give me some advice. younghoon KIL ppai@soback.kornet.nm.kr (Cyberdog, Voice Mail OK) http://soback.kornet.nm.kr/~ppai (NEXTSTEP Q&A Board written by Korean)
From: chris@rapidremedies.com (Rapid Remedies) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 06:51:16 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> In article <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > Anyway...like I >said, if GX can replace DPS with the same or more functionality, >w/o affecting stability, and with little resource or time requirements, >then I'm all for it! However, that seems unlikely, and at least >for a while, DPS will have to be kept around. Thank goodness, some >consensus :)))) I've been following this thread for a bit here, and I want to make sure I understand something. Are YOU (John Kheit) saying that DPS is going to have to be "kept around" as far as the next MacOS, or just NextStep for Next machines? If you are saying that the next MacOS is going to have DPS instead of GX, then you are absolutely nuts. Current Mac apps depend on Quickdraw, or Quickdraw GX. If they are Quickdraw dependant for printing, most of them work fine with Quickdraw GX, as it has Quickdraw emulation for printing purposes. I am running aps that are three and four years old with GX without any hitches. If DPS is to replace Quickdraw, then NONE of the current Mac applications are going to work, and a whole new crop of printer drivers will need to be written. This is not just an issue of monitor display, obviously. Most Mac printers are NOT PostScript. Therefore, there is NO distinct advantage to the claim that DPS is better for WYSIWYG. Replacing Quickdraw with Quickdraw GX will not be nearly the undertaking as replacing it with DPS - as far as all current third party apps are concerned. And as Apple has been saying all along, compatibility with current (System 7) apps is a must. This means DPS is NOT a viable option for the future of the MacOS. Apple did not spend millions and millions of dollars on Quickdraw GX after looking at DPS to just end up using DPS. They can be short sighted (frequently), but not suicidal. There is no way that DPS has a future in the next Mac OS. >> In short I'd rather work with one fast and flexible imaging >> system that can automatically handle whatever extra processing >> is needed in order to recreate on a given output device what >> I made on the screen. > >Well DPS certainly does that... Is DPS going to rewrite all current Mac apps to look for DPS instead of Quickdraw for display? >> OpenStep's printing architecture is probably very nice but >> there is a severe driver issue that Apple's going to have to >> address if they want Mac users to be able to print to non-PS >> printers from within Mac apps under the new OS. You can't >> exactly dump a Postscript file to a Stylewriter and expect it >> to print. > >That's not true. There are already options allow you to print to >a great bulk of non-PS printers.... PostScript emulators. Sure. A GX driver is doing essentially the same thing. So is any driver. It takes Quickdraw (or GX) code and converts it into binary data the printer in question can understand. BFD. This is the same issue with DPS or with GX. Therefore it's a non-issue. The issue is that most current apps will work FINE with GX unmodified. The rest will need minor modifications to make them more stable (in most cases) or remove their incompatibilities with it. This is not the case with DPS. If DPS is used, all apps must be rewritten. Not an option. This would be like porting Windows NT to the Mac and telling all Mac users "here's your next OS guys." Screw that. Users need more compatibility than that. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: chris@rapidremedies.com (Rapid Remedies) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 07:21:13 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <chris-0501970021130001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> In article <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com>, marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: >> Sure it is, please tell me how you go about using a TrueType GX font's >> built-in tables in OpenStep. It was a slightly rigged example ;) But GX's >> layout manager does enable some *incredible* typographical stuff that >> OpenStep's API does not do. Providing a GX-based text field in OpenStep >> would enable all sorts of advanced formatting and typography capabilities. >> Automatically, without a need to graft that functionality into OpenStep. > >Note that this proposal does not require that DPS be ripped out. If DPS isn't ripped out and made a SUBSET of GX, then all current Mac apps will need to be rewritten. That's bunk. It won't happen. Current apps will work with GX now just fine - they just won't take advantage of the "extra" GX features. You think Apple will modify DPS such that there is a big ass Quickdraw emulator within it to deal with application compatibility. Talk about slow. >yeah, and since ultimately it all gets rendered into PostScript for >output, its pretty compelling that the onscreen representation also be in >PS. Uh huh. Maybe for a Next machine printing to a PostScript printer. What is the percentage of non-PS drivers for Next? It's something like 90% non-PS for Macs. Most people do NOT use PostScript printers - so this point is pointless. >You can't have it both ways. DPS and GX both have features not found in PS >level 2. No, the extra features won't print from DPS, neither will they >from GX. This is incorrect. What GX has "extra" it works out for any printer, whether it has those abilities or not. If it's a PS 1 printer, it will print these extra features just fine. Not so for PostScript. GX is superior in this regard. Look at a regular Mac PostScript driver (such as the Laserwriter 8 driver) - it's 556k in size. Look at the Laserwriter driver for GX. 77k in size. Why? GX has a built-in PostScript engine for creating PostScript output to recreate exactly what it displays. I have a Canon printer with a GX driver. Without it, I cannot rotate text boxes in WordPerfect without them looking like crap. Same with EPS files. If GX is loaded, this is not a problem. Looks as though it came from a PostScript printer. >> >> )Applying transforms to the bitmaps does not require PSWraps or any >> )such thing. Again, making a higher level class/kit structure for >> )more automated control in OpenStep may well be the way to go. One >> )can do this for DPS, just as easily as for GX. >> >> Actually you can't. You'd need to build a layer that would abstract PS' >> procedural interface to something on the level of GX's object-oriented >> one, then you could put on a higher level API. Again at a performance loss, >> and when it comes right down to it, why bother? You're suggesting >> reinventing a fairly large wheel. > >No, you are suggesting reinventing a fairly large wheel. DPS is already on >the cart, GX is not. You are talking drivel. Apple LOOKED at DPS years ago before the GX project was started as a possible replacement for Quickdraw. They said NO. Quickdraw GX is the replacement - regardless of whether Apple takes the Mac OS and inserts pieces of the Next OS in it - or if they start with the Next OS. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: zapster@ibm.net Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 5 Jan 1997 07:24:20 GMT Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ankv4$16em$4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> In <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com>, "Frank Chu" <chu@ipoline.com> writes: >I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since >it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly >no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) >running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance >or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache >onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only >half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. Umm, I highly doubt sun makes anything that can beat an RS/6000 system running with 512 processors... The IBM PowerParallel system is one of the fastest, if not the fastest, generally available mainframe one can buy. Solaris is also an extremely slow OS, it blows. So lesse, I have my IBM RS/6000 PowerParalell with 512 processors and 16 gigs of ram. Lesse, you have a quad pentium pro system running what... say linux and just for kicks 1 gig of ram, and of course the unbelievably fast 33mhz PCI bus... Who is going to win here? Who can have the most concurrent users? Will it be the intel machine? Fuck no.
From: marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 12:44:23 GMT Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany Message-ID: <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit chris@rapidremedies.com (Rapid Remedies) writes: >In article <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com>, >marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: >>> Sure it is, please tell me how you go about using a TrueType GX font's >>> built-in tables in OpenStep. It was a slightly rigged example ;) But GX's >>> layout manager does enable some *incredible* typographical stuff that >>> OpenStep's API does not do. Providing a GX-based text field in OpenStep >>> would enable all sorts of advanced formatting and typography capabilities. >>> Automatically, without a need to graft that functionality into OpenStep. >> >>Note that this proposal does not require that DPS be ripped out. >If DPS isn't ripped out and made a SUBSET of GX, then all current Mac apps >will need to be rewritten. That's bunk. This is true. The first assertion _is_ bunk. Thank you for clarifying that for us. :-) > It won't happen. Current apps > will work with GX now just fine - they just won't take advantage of the >"extra" GX features. 'Will' work 'now'? That's an interesting new tense, maybe the always future present? >You think Apple will modify DPS such that there is a >big ass Quickdraw emulator within it to deal with application >compatibility. Talk about slow. No, I don't think they will do that. Because it probably would be pretty slow to write a QuickDraw interpreter in PostScript. My _guess_ is that they will either map the Quickdraw calls to PS and/or provide a bitmap port for Quickdraw (GX) Apps to draw into. I would guess that they would also make the most useful GX features available within the framework of the new API, possibly pulling the Object-API into the AppKit or extensions ( GXKit, DisplayKit, ... ) while at the same time rolling some of the additional transfer modes into the compositing extensions. What would be neat if there were an additional PS graphics state parameter to control wether shapes get drawn as they are at present or composited with the current alpha + transfer mode. >I have a Canon printer with a GX driver. Without it, I cannot rotate text >boxes in WordPerfect without them looking like crap. Same with EPS >files. If GX is loaded, this is not a problem. Looks as though it came >from a PostScript printer. Interesting. 'As though it came from a PostScript printer' is used by yourself as an indication of how good the quality of GX is. In fact, you imply that PostScript is the quality standard that GX aspires to and actually achieves. Well with DPS, that same Canon printer will _be_ a PostScript printer. Neat, eh? You can then rotate not just WordPerfect text boxes but also arbitrary EPS files and they look great on screen and on your existing Canon printer. (Does GX allow importing/rotating/printing of arbitrary EPS files? I was under the impression it couldn't, but would be quite impressed if it could. Quite impressed indeed.) >You are talking drivel. Apple LOOKED at DPS years ago before the GX >project was started as a possible replacement for Quickdraw. They said >NO. Quickdraw GX is the replacement - regardless of whether Apple takes >the Mac OS and inserts pieces of the Next OS in it - or if they start with >the Next OS. Hmm...do you think the Apple that said NO to DPS as a display technology would have bought NeXT as their new OS? It also seems that Adobe has gotten a little humbler in the meantime. Things change, and happily so. Marcel
From: bbq@wam.umd.edu (BBQ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Two motherboards in a cube, help Date: 4 Jan 1997 21:10:14 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Message-ID: <5an2i6$mms@rac10.wam.umd.edu> I have a NeXT black cube, and at bootup it says FPU=0x40 or similiar, I have found a 68030 motherboard for a good price. Can I put this into my machine, and what will happen, it doesn't have a monitor or anything, but can I speed anything up without additional software? thanks bbq
From: bbq@wam.umd.edu (BBQ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Openstep on TV Date: 4 Jan 1997 21:38:36 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Message-ID: <5an47c$njq@rac10.wam.umd.edu> Watching the Pretender, if you are familiar, this guy should be running a cool OS, instead of a watch like a mac, or a sand timer like windows, it has the spinning circle thing like NeXT. OpenStep on a slimnote I know works and is sold as such. Just nice to see, for whatever reason they did it. bbq no flames, just :)
From: eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl (Eelco Houwink) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 5 Jan 1997 13:53:30 GMT Organization: WorldCom Message-ID: <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily OS) sales and licensing
From: eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl (Eelco Houwink) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 5 Jan 1997 13:53:31 GMT Organization: WorldCom Message-ID: <1997010514570623705@p026.gor.euronet.nl> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> Phil Brewster <pjbrew@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that > Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily OS) > sales and licensing. If she would have said that - which I doubt - she absolutely doesn't understand the platform or she must have implicitly written off all Apple hardware development for the last 4 years. In the first case, it would mean that Apple has to get into a multi-million OS license market - which simply is not there. In the second case, the company would be - formally - bankrupt..! Apple really needs some firm one-liners, but not exactly this one. -- Yours Sincerely, Eelco Houwink eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl
From: Isaac <isaac@lab.housing.fsu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ADB esc sequence? Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:58:34 -0500 Organization: Florida State University Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970104055552.19704A-100000@lab.housing.fsu.edu> References: <5ajfun$7nq@wagner.spc.videotron.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Raymond Lutz <lutzray@9bit.qc.ca> In-Reply-To: <5ajfun$7nq@wagner.spc.videotron.ca> On 3 Jan 1997, Raymond Lutz wrote: > What are the escape key combinations for ADB keayboards? > > How do I access the NMI Mini-Monitor? Command-LeftAlternate-` -Isaac
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.hardware From: fugue@ccp.spc.uchicago.edu Subject: HELP: Find ljf? Message-ID: <ukv9168nnyr.fsf@dura.spc.uchicago.edu> Sender: fugue@dura.spc.uchicago.edu Organization: University of Chicago -- Academic Computing Services Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:25:32 GMT Hi... I'm trying to find either Bert Lindgren, <gt8855a@prism.gatech.edu>, or a copy of ljf, whichever comes first. Looks as though Bert has left GA Tech. Does anyone know where to find him, or his HP LaserJet program, jlf? Thanks! -- fugue "The police used to watch over the people. Now they're watching the people."
From: jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: frivolous monitor question Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:07:34 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf-ya023580000501971207340001@news.tiac.net> References: <jak-ya023680003012961534300001@news.asu.edu> <Pine.LNX.3.95.961231035613.31623A-100000@lab.housing.fsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <Pine.LNX.3.95.961231035613.31623A-100000@lab.housing.fsu.edu>, Isaac <isaac@lab.housing.fsu.edu> wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, John Kestner wrote: > I presume you mean the cool rolling stand. The answer is no. This is > because the colour screens were all manufactured by other companies for > NeXT. Only the MegaPixel screens were made in-house. Ummh. My info, from an in-house tech who'd taken the NeXT repair course, is that the black monitors were actually made (and repaired) by Sony. Barney
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:50:44 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> References: <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> In article <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Heh. DPS wasn't designed from scratch to provide a printer AND screen > graphics model. > > GX was. *blink* whoa. Lawson, wouldn't 'Display postscript' sort of imply a screen display, since the printer one is just 'postscript'? Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 13:56:10 -0700 Sender: terry@206.75.68.5 Message-ID: <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rapid Remedies wrote: > > Apple did not spend millions and millions of dollars on Quickdraw GX after > looking at DPS to just end up using DPS. They can be short sighted > (frequently), but not suicidal. There is no way that DPS has a future in > the next Mac OS. I'm actually kind of impressed by this statement. It sums up the Mac user sentiment so concisely. From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy NeXT? Why consider buying Be? Conversely, Apple did not spend hundreds of millions of dollars on NeXT after failing with Copland, just to use Copland. Why not wait until some real info surfaces before becoming Chicken Little? Terry Wilcox Arcane Systems Ltd.
From: lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 5 Jan 1997 21:50:14 GMT Organization: UNINETT news service Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> Robert Iacullo writes: : jmiller wrote: : > : > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: : > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) : > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? : They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. Where can I buy one? Cheers...
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 14:41:06 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Johnson <jinx6568@sover.net> said: >In article <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169>, "Lawson English" ><english@primenet.com> wrote: >> Heh. DPS wasn't designed from scratch to provide a printer AND screen >> graphics model. >> >> GX was. > > *blink* whoa. > > Lawson, wouldn't 'Display postscript' sort of imply a screen display, >since the printer one is just 'postscript'? DPS was designed to provide screen services using PostSCript. The screen services were an afterthought. While various parts of GX were percolating sperately at first at Apple, by the time they were integrated, it was with the design criteria that *everything* that could show on the screen, had to be printable via any printer that would work with GX. The screen display architecture was optimized for speed. The printing architecture was optimized for robustness and extensibility. The overall design called for them to work together seemlessly. Not so with DPS and PS. DPS was an afterthought to PS. PS was never designed to support DPS, whereas the GX display architecture was designed to work with the GX print architecture AND to work on both PS and non-PS printers. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 21:35:10 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> In article <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de (Marcel Weiher) wrote: >>If DPS isn't ripped out and made a SUBSET of GX, then all current Mac apps >>will need to be rewritten. That's bunk. > >This is true. The first assertion _is_ bunk. Thank you for clarifying >that for us. :-) Being cute isn't germane to this discussion. >>You think Apple will modify DPS such that there is a >>big ass Quickdraw emulator within it to deal with application >>compatibility. Talk about slow. > >No, I don't think they will do that. Because it probably would be >pretty slow to write a QuickDraw interpreter in PostScript. My _guess_ >is that they will either map the Quickdraw calls to PS and/or provide >a bitmap port for Quickdraw (GX) Apps to draw into. Hold one here....there are TWO distinctly different things I am talking about and you are calling them one thing. Quickdraw and Quickdraw GX are two totally different technologies with totall different abilities. If Apple is going to incorporate GX into DPS -- they are wasting time. GX contains a PostScript engine for dealing with PostScript fonts, and EPS files, and for creating PS output for files or printers. To have DPS do all of this and risk compatibility is a huge mistake. Apple has said several times that DPS is inferior to GX. >>I have a Canon printer with a GX driver. Without it, I cannot rotate text >>boxes in WordPerfect without them looking like crap. Same with EPS >>files. If GX is loaded, this is not a problem. Looks as though it came >>from a PostScript printer. > >Interesting. 'As though it came from a PostScript printer' is used by >yourself as an indication of how good the quality of GX is. In fact, >you imply that PostScript is the quality standard that GX aspires to >and actually achieves. Well with DPS, that same Canon printer will >_be_ a PostScript printer. Neat, eh? GX can create PostScript code to tell such a printer (level 1 or level 2) how to make an image (be it text or graphic). PostScript is very capable, but GX was designed to do what PostScript can only do through a lot of code. Such as transparencies. PostScript doesn't do that natively. GX does. Color filtration isn't done by PostScript natively, but GX can. >You can then rotate not just WordPerfect text boxes but also arbitrary >EPS files and they look great on screen and on your existing Canon >printer. (Does GX allow importing/rotating/printing of arbitrary >EPS files? I was under the impression it couldn't, but would be >quite impressed if it could. Quite impressed indeed.) Well I do it and it doesn't seem to have a problem. >Hmm...do you think the Apple that said NO to DPS as a display technology >would have bought NeXT as their new OS? It also seems that Adobe has >gotten a little humbler in the meantime. I know for a fact that Apple didn't buy Next on the basis of DPS. When asked if DPS or GX would be used in the new OS, Hancock said that was one of the things they had to look at carefully, and should have those answers by January 7th. Do YOU think this would be a question if Apple was not concerned about the abilities of DPS? Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 21:49:07 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0501971449100001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> In article <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com>, terry@arcane.com wrote: >From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: > >Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. >Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. >Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. > >Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so >it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy >NeXT? Why consider buying Be? Be doesn't use DPS....so obviously Apple is relatively unconcerned about DPS. That's not why they bought NeXT. NextStep/OpenStep is proven, more reliable -- someone said something about Be OS having a lack of I/O routines for some very basic things. Regardless, what does Be, and NeXT have in common that Apple DOESN'T have? A pre-emptively multitasking operating system with protected memory. They weren't looking for a better way to DISPLAY shit. So DPS is not the reason why they bought NeXT. Next and Be have different interfaces - so the interface is not really what Apple was looking for. Clearly, it's the stability of the machine they were looking to get. The other two were NOT why they bought Next, but could end up being gimmies. I never said that Apple wasn't buying NeXT for the kernel. And if you think it's going to use the NeXT interface - then what we have is NeXT on Macs. If we have DPS instead of GX - we have NeXT on Macs. If we have everything NeXT - then why the hell are they going to so much trouble with all of this instead of bring out the KNOWN existing NextStep PowerPC port? HMmm....NextStep is not everything Apple wants. They intend to gut it for the goodness of it. And I don't think DPS is one of those - just like the remaining Unixness of Next that Apple has publically said it intends to remove. >Conversely, Apple did not spend hundreds of millions of dollars on NeXT >after failing with Copland, just to use Copland. Spent hundreds of millions on Copland and ditched it. Wouldn't be the first time Apple did someting and fell flat. If the rumors are true - that the next OS will not support System 7 apps except through emulation - and that the next OS will support only currently shipping Macs - then Apple is going to have some big time problems. As it seems - the rumors would indicate the Mac is dead. So, yes, wait until January 7th to see what they say about compatibility. That is the main concern of any mac user. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 15:53:04 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF58214-5DE56@198.68.42.176> References: <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcel Weiher <marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de> said: >No, I don't think they will do that. Because it probably would be >pretty slow to write a QuickDraw interpreter in PostScript. My _guess_ >is that they will either map the Quickdraw calls to PS and/or provide >a bitmap port for Quickdraw (GX) Apps to draw into. At this point, I'm guessing that the new OS's equivalent of the Copland "'Blue' compatibility box" will run only a single System 7 app, and that multiple apps will require multiple boxes. QD and QDGX will (at first, at least for GX) run only within the Blue Box and use the current code to draw within whatever bitmap that PS supplies to QuickDraw/GX. Later, I would expect them to make the GX API (and hopefully QD region-handling APIs) available to "native" apps. I would guess >that they would also make the most useful GX features available within >the framework of the new API, possibly pulling the Object-API into >the AppKit or extensions ( GXKit, DisplayKit, ... ) while at the >same time rolling some of the additional transfer modes into the >compositing extensions. > I don't know how that would work. GX shapes and the API are "atomic" in that a single call does a lot of work behind the scenes. >What would be neat if there were an additional PS graphics state >parameter to control wether shapes get drawn as they are at present >or composited with the current alpha + transfer mode. With GX, such a thing doesn't make sense. Each shape object has its own transform and ink objects (which may be shared with any/all other objects) which control how the object is drawn. When a new object is created, it is automatically assigned the default ink, transform, etc objects and the appropriate default gemoetry for a shape of its type. These contain the default data for color, which window(s) to draw in, which transfer/composite modes to use, what the drawing should look like, etc. You can, of course, modify the shape object to refer to a different transform, ink, etc. OR you can change the default object. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: jc@or.psychology.dal.ca (John Christie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Date: 5 Jan 1997 23:04:57 GMT Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Message-ID: <5apc2p$4km@News.Dal.Ca> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570623705@p026.gor.euronet.nl> Eelco Houwink (eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl) wrote: : Phil Brewster <pjbrew@ix.netcom.com> wrote: : > I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that : > Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily OS) : > sales and licensing. : If she would have said that - which I doubt - she absolutely doesn't : understand the platform or she must have implicitly written off all : Apple hardware development for the last 4 years. She never stated it was OS licensing. Look at teh QTML placn. That is where they hope to get the revenues, middleware licensing. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Christie "You aren't free because you CAN choose - only if you DO choose." "All you are is the decisions you make. If you let circumstances make them for you then what you are becomes very easy to estimate."
From: jc@or.psychology.dal.ca (John Christie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 5 Jan 1997 23:01:44 GMT Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Message-ID: <5apbso$4km@News.Dal.Ca> Terry Wilcox (terry@arcane.com) wrote: : Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. : Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. : Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. : Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so : it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy : NeXT? Why consider buying Be? If you had QuickDrawGX and a kernal (the interface is just a concept) then you still wouldn't have an OS. during MacWorld in the fall there was a report that a Apple's botth there was a 9500 runnning Copland. It did not run any applications. Apple has to somehow abandon the entire ToolBox. There wasn't enough work put into OS9 (remember that was supposed to end sys7 compatibility) and had no object model. That is what they bought. They had to abandon Copland and there wasn't enough of Gershwin done to get an OS out the door so they saved us all alot of time and money and bought one. : Why not wait until some real info surfaces before becoming Chicken : Little? If a Mac user says that the new MacOS won't use DPS or Mach how does that potend the falling of the sky? There really is no evidence that NeXT and Mac will be the SAME OS. If they are then how will backward compatibility work on the SUN and Intel versions of NeXT?(MAE) Which reminds me, has anyone used the new MAE? How's the compatibility now? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Christie "You aren't free because you CAN choose - only if you DO choose." "All you are is the decisions you make. If you let circumstances make them for you then what you are becomes very easy to estimate."
From: mpaque@wco.com (Mike Paquette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: ADB esc sequence? Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 23:22:46 GMT Organization: Electronics Service, Unit No. 16 Message-ID: <5apd4o$qfr@news.wco.com> References: <5ajfun$7nq@wagner.spc.videotron.ca> email@end.of.post (Raymond Lutz) wrote: >Hi there, >What are the escape key combinations for ADB keayboards? >How do I access the NMI Mini-Monitor? Hold down both the Left ALT key and the Command Bar, and press the ~ (tilde) key WITHOUT pressing the shift key. >How do I reset the hardware? Hold down both the Left ALT key and the Command Bar, and press the * key on the numeric keypad. Note that this is a hard reset, and does not result in a clean shutdown. Mike Paquette -- I don't speak for my employer, whoever it is, and they don't speak for me. mpaque@wco.com mpaque@next.com NeXT business mail only, please
From: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:38:10 GMT Organization: J. W. Goethe-Universitaet Frankfurt/Main Message-ID: <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: > But some things are missing from that - some more > important than others. For instance - the desktop. Also, the things that > can be put on the desktop (besides files and folders). [...] > Some NeXTers mention the never-released "tabbed shelf". Ah, interesting. When I moved from my ATARI (which is very similar to the Mac concerning the desktop and had a strong professional following in Germany) to NEXTSTEP years ago, I found it very strange that there was no "desktop". But it took me only few days to find out why: In a multitasking environment, you thend to have *lots* of open windows that almost certainly will cover most of what you want to access via the desktop so it becomes more than hard to use the desktop. OTOH, you don't even need the "tabbed shelf" for a replacement of the desktop in NEXTSTEP. As you probably know, you have a (non-tabbed) shelf area on every FileViewer window; you may freely choose its size. On this area you can put whatever you'd put on the desktop otherwise. The difference is, that one single click on the NeXT icon in the dock brings up the FileViewer window, so with one click you have access to all icons on your "desktop". This makes a *lot* of sense in a multitasking environment. So, just think of the shelf area in the FileViewer window as a "desktop within a window", and you have what you want. On a side note, when the "tabbbed shelf" got introduced, there was a lot of discussion about where to place it, because placing it horizontally on the screen reduces screen height that is often more needed than screen width. I've never understood why they didn't simply evolve the shelf in the FileViewer window into a tabbed shelf so you have all advantages together... > Things like desktop printers. That's an item I've never understood. If I choose "Print" in the app I create my document with and can choose whatever printer I like there, for what purpose do I need a "desktop printer"? Bye Uli -- ______________________________________________________________________ Uli Zappe E-Mail: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (NeXTMail,Mime,ASCII) PGP on request Lorscher Strasse 5 WWW: - D-60489 Frankfurt Fon: +49 (69) 9784 0007 Germany Fax: +49 (69) 9784 0042 staff member of NEXTTOYOU - the German NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP magazine ______________________________________________________________________
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 18:32:08 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32D04808.4C55016@screaming.org> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> <remedies-0501971449100001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Murphy wrote: > Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com> wrote: > >From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: > > > >Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. > >Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. > >Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. > > > >Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so > >it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy > >NeXT? Why consider buying Be? > > Be doesn't use DPS....so obviously Apple is relatively unconcerned about > DPS. Be didn't have a platform-independent API, either. So, obviously, Apple is relatively unconcerned about OpenStep. (same logical form) By George, Mr. Wilcox, I think you've hit the nail on the head! This is a fun game! Be didn't have Steve Jobs, so (obviously) Apple is relatively unconcerned about him, too. Be didn't have multiarchitecture support, so (obviously) Apple isn't concerned about that, either. Be didn't have any *users*, so (obviously) Apple is relatively unconcerned about users. > If we have everything NeXT - then why the hell are they going > to so much trouble with all of this instead of bring out the > KNOWN existing NextStep PowerPC port? I think I can guess the conclusion you're gonna draw... > HMmm....NextStep is not everything Apple wants. Ha! I *pegged* it! You're lip-syncing the jargon well, but you just don't grok. Tell me, Chris, how long would it take *you* to turn the NeXTstep/PPC port a shrinkwrapped & supportable product? -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Favorite sendmail bugs Date: 6 Jan 1997 00:01:45 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5apfd9$r0d@duke.squonk.net> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <jinx6568-3012961209030001@news.sover.net> <32c95a03.169884656@mambo> <5a9vsr$4fs@camel5.mindspring.com> <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr> hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) wrote: > Yes, sendmail is complex. > It is complex because it does a lot things. Since it is complex > it can contains bugs. But since it is useda lot on Internet, it > is now one of the most tested software on unix. You will be able > to find still new bugs but more the time will go on more it will > be hard to find bugs. I believe that the first time I heard this fantasy from a Unix wizard was probably around 1987. It's nice that some things stay the same. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Don't rush into GX on NG OS! (was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:31:05 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF598F5-B3E64@198.68.42.188> References: <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Murphy <remedies@rapidremedies.com> said: > >I know for a fact that Apple didn't buy Next on the basis of DPS. When >asked if DPS or GX would be used in the new OS, Hancock said that was one >of the things they had to look at carefully, and should have those answers >by January 7th. Do YOU think this would be a question if Apple was not >concerned about the abilities of DPS? I was under the impression that she was more worried about the cost, rather than the capabilities. Would it surprise folks if I said that I hope that GX is NOT used as the underlying graphics architecture in the first release(s) of the next gen OS? There are several reasons for this: 1) time to market -GX has never been tested in a PMT environment, AFAIK, unless it is within the Netscape plug-in demoed for Windows 95 at the last COMDEX. Making sure that your fundamental display architecture is bug-free and well optimized isn't something that can be done in only a few months, or even a year! 2) legacy libraries -GX is NOT the foundation of the NeXT/OpenStep interface and Apple would have to make sure that everything was working right, unless they merely used GX as the backend to a GhostScript Display server. And that would hark back to the issues raised in point #1. 3) GX has the potential to give Apple the ability to offer substantially more to its users and developers than DPS. However, to do this properly will take several years of design, optimization, tweaking and user/developer-testing -if GX is used from the get-go, it is entirely possible that Apple will be satisfied with whatever hack they come up with to make GX work like DPS, and then forget about enhancing its abilities, save in the directions that DPS has already established. As developers, we want more. As users, we want more. As people that know how awful Apple marketing is, we want LOTS MORE to make up for Apple's short-comings in this area. Keep DPS where it is, but work on enhancing GX to replace/enhance DPS over the long run... --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 6 Jan 1997 00:06:21 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5apflt$r0d@duke.squonk.net> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <tgritton-ya023180000401970835510001@news.sprynet.com> tgritton@sprynet.com (Terry Gritton) wrote: > Again see PopupFolder, takes up less window realestate than File > Viewer with no 'window heck'. Combined with the ability to see > 'up' the directory path by pressing on the Finder window title > ( Now utilities option I believe) and drilling 'down' via > PopupFolder gives you better functionality now on the Mac. File > Viewer will be a step backwards. It is somewhat different. It isn't even all that much different. It's a bit much to think of this as "a step backwards". It's just different. Note that PopupFolder is not part of the MacOS system. It changes the *default* interface (the one Apple ships with) to one that some people prefer. I bought it. I like it. I think it shows that the Finder interface, as shipped from Apple, just might maybe be *improved* by a few modest changes. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 01:39:50 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5apl56$h9p@news4.digex.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: > In article <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de > (Marcel Weiher) wrote: > >>If DPS isn't ripped out and made a SUBSET of GX, then all > >>current Mac apps will need to be rewritten. That's bunk. > > > >This is true. The first assertion _is_ bunk. Thank you for > >clarifying that for us. :-) > Being cute isn't germane to this discussion. But salient nonetheless. This seems discussion seems more appropriate in advocacy... Followups to: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy With my appologies to Lawson English in my bad net-etiquette of not doing the usenet/followup thing. I was wrong to do so. Anyway, let's try and cut down on all the cross posting... -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: raph@porter.as.utexas.edu (William Raphael Hix) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 6 Jan 1997 01:38:54 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Message-ID: <5apl3e$i15@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an Terry Wilcox (terry@arcane.com) wrote: : I'm actually kind of impressed by this statement. It sums up the Mac : user sentiment so concisely. One can give reasonable explanations for the following which might or might not be true. No one outside of NeXT-Apple will know the real answers until these decisions have been made, based on whatever technical or political factors are at play inside this merging process. : : From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: : : Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. QDGX vs. DPS will likely boil down to either a turf issue or a money issue. If the license for DPS costs more than say $30 per user, DPS will not be part of the OS because Apple will not want to give away that large a chunk of its $100 per copy price. Likewise if the Apple folks, who after all are in charge since they bought NeXT, have an attack of insecurity, DPS will die since it was "not inventied here". : Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. The Copland kernal exists and according to demo users is stable. It is based on a later Mach kernal so it is presumed to be more advanced. If it is as technically easy as has been suggested to migrate the OpenStep application model, drivers, etc. to this kernal, using the Copland kernal will allow the Apple OS people to save a lot of face. So this will likely happen unless it is too technically difficult. : Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. This will be MacOS 8, not NextStep 5. To assuage the fears and uncertainties of the non-technical folks who dominate Apple's customers, there will be a file management tool which looks and acts very much like the MacOS 7 finder. Hopefully this will not be the only choice (I actually like CLI for some purposes) or at least its appearance will be customizable, but I don't see how Apple can ship an OS which does not allow the bulk of its loyal user base to have a screen that looks much like MacOS 7, menu at the top with the multi colored Apple and all. Now hopefully a lot of the interface aspects of managment, like the Chooser, control panels, control strips and the like, will be changed as there is tremendous room for improvement. : Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so : it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy : NeXT? Why consider buying Be? The reason Apple bought Next was the application model. They chose NeXT over Be because the NeXT application model was tried and true and loved by the kind of enterprise developers who have always considered Macs to be toys. The application model, and the compatability issues around the Copland version, seem to be the failing of Copland. Considering that developers using NextStep, Interface Builder and the rest have deployed applications on all kinds of machines, it would seem that this is highly separable from the underlying kernal and most of the rest of these issues. : Why not wait until some real info surfaces before becoming Chicken : Little? Impatience mostly. Certainly no one knows the answers to most of these questions, not even the NeXT-Apple people charged with figuring them out. In 3-6 months, we'll see something like NextStep 4.x on PPC, though probably with whatever kernal turns out to be the best political-technical compromise. It might or might not have a Finder like file management tool. It probably won't have any Sys 7 application compatability. It'll be a year before we really see MacOS 8 even in its 8.0 form. Hopefully it'll be the best of both worlds, really cool and an Win NT killer. Until then, we'll see Mac users, who want a MacOS 8 which looks and feels like some sort of crashless, lightening quick System 7+, subconsciously trying to make it happen by saying it will loudly and often. Likewise, NeXT users are going to use the same means to conjour MacOS 8 as NextStep 5. Neither will be completely happy with the timetable or end result, but since Mac users vastly outnumber NeXT users and Apple bought NeXT, I expect the Mac loyalists will win more than their share. Raph Who has used Macs, NeXT, Sun, DEC, IBM, Cray, etc. and is still looking for the perfect computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- William Raphael Hix Department of Astronomy raph@astro.as.utexas.edu University of Texas Voice: (512) 471-3412 R.L. Moore Hall FAX: (512) 471-6016 Austin TX 78712 WWW: http://tycho.as.utexas.edu/~raph Room 17.210 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 01:50:06 GMT Organization: AlgoNet Public Access Node, Stockholm Message-ID: <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> NNTP-Posting-User: b7fe697fc47f6ef7093c87732e2a5b740 lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: >Robert Iacullo writes: >: jmiller wrote: >: > >: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: >: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) >: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? >: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > Where can I buy one? > Cheers.. Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: "We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand megahertz or a gigahertz." (http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest mainframe/any cpu?
From: Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 19:08:29 -0700 Organization: Arcane Systems Ltd. Sender: terry@206.75.68.5 Message-ID: <32D05E9D.1EF7@arcane.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> <remedies-0501971449100001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Chris Murphy <remedies@rapidremedies.com> Chris Murphy wrote: > > Be doesn't use DPS....so obviously Apple is relatively unconcerned about > DPS. That's not why they bought NeXT. NextStep/OpenStep is proven, more > > Next and Be have different interfaces - so the interface is not really > what Apple was looking for. BeOS and NeXT have nothing in common other than being more modern OSes than System 7. Well, there is one thing. Both are led by former Apple executives. So by your logic, they picked NeXT because of Steve Jobs. They didn't actually care about NeXTstep at all. > Clearly, it's the stability of the machine they were looking to get. The > other two were NOT why they bought Next, but could end up being gimmies. Stability? Windows NT is fairly stable. So is Solaris. Why not use them? > I never said that Apple wasn't buying NeXT for the kernel. And if you > think it's going to use the NeXT interface - then what we have is NeXT on > HMmm....NextStep is not everything Apple wants. They intend to gut it for > the goodness of it. And I don't think DPS is one of those - just like the > remaining Unixness of Next that Apple has publically said it intends to > remove. $400 million to use NeXT's Mach kernel, when Apple has already ported Mach in-house? I find it hard to believe that Apple is that lost. I'll wait for Apple's announcement. Terry Wilcox terry@arcane.com
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 18:26:01 -0800 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Message-ID: <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> writes: >Chris Johnson <jinx6568@sover.net> said: >>In article <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169>, "Lawson English" >><english@primenet.com> wrote: >>> Heh. DPS wasn't designed from scratch to provide a printer AND screen >>> graphics model. >>> >>> GX was. >> >> *blink* whoa. >> >> Lawson, wouldn't 'Display postscript' sort of imply a screen display, >>since the printer one is just 'postscript'? >DPS was designed to provide screen services using PostSCript. The screen >services were an afterthought. You're a bit fuzzy on your history here, Lawson. The language that became Postscript started out at Xerox (like so many other things!) as a display language. >While various parts of GX were percolating sperately at first at Apple, by >the time they were integrated, it was with the design criteria that >*everything* that could show on the screen, had to be printable via any >printer that would work with GX. >The screen display architecture was optimized for speed. The printing >architecture was optimized for robustness and extensibility. The overall >design called for them to work together seemlessly. I think you mean "seamlessly." IF that was the goal, then it's another failure on Apple's part. >Not so with DPS and PS. DPS was an afterthought to PS. PS was never >designed to support DPS, whereas the GX display architecture was designed >to work with the GX print architecture AND to work on both PS and non-PS >printers. Postscript is a general-purpose programming language, which was intended as a tool for rendering graphics. DPS followed Postscript as a product, but calling it an "afterthought" is bit inflammatory, and disparages the very fine work that Adobe and NeXT have done on it. Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a vertical frame interval, isn't it? -jcr
From: Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 19:27:17 -0700 Organization: Arcane Systems Ltd. Sender: terry@206.75.68.5 Message-ID: <32D06305.162@arcane.com> References: <5apbso$4km@News.Dal.Ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Christie wrote: > > If you had QuickDrawGX and a kernal (the interface is just a > concept) then you still wouldn't have an OS. during MacWorld in the fall Very true. And if you have a complete OS that you want to ship within a year, do you rip out major components that are already well integrated? Just so you can put in your invented-here code. > If a Mac user says that the new MacOS won't use DPS or Mach how > does that potend the falling of the sky? There really is no evidence that > NeXT and Mac will be the SAME OS. If they are then how will backward > compatibility work on the SUN and Intel versions of NeXT?(MAE) That doesn't portend the falling of the sky. Mac users' predictions that Apple will collapse if Apple uses any one of: a) NeXTstep interface b) Objective-C c) DPS d) NeXTstep kernel e) anything else Apple didn't develop themselves is what I was talking about. Apple seems to be fighting against NIH syndrome. Mac users seem to be embracing NIH syndrome. Terry Wilcox terry@arcane.com
From: "David Every" <dke@adnc.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 97 15:16:22 +0000 Organization: adnc.com Message-ID: <AEF57655-F7EB@207.158.13.13> References: <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Terry Wilcox - > From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: > Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. Probably true. GX is more capable AND more object based AND has more potential in the future with MP (Apple already has MP versions of GX).... that does not mean Apple will remove DPS - but they certainly dont need it. > Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. Quite likely. I understood that was finished quite a while ago - and is faster, better than Mach2.5 and likely better than Mach3.0... and works with lots of drivers and API's Apple was developing for Copland. > Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. Quite true. NeXT has some nice interface elements - but then so does the Mac. And Apple will likely be crucified if they change things too much. So the interface was likely very low on the list - but will give apple some new elements. > Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so > it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy > NeXT? Why consider buying Be? Because an OS is more than it look and feel (the very highest level) and its kernal (the very lowest level) and the imaging model (the graphics engine). NeXT is awesome middleware that allows for RAD (rapid application development) has a great framework, lots of services that already run on MachKernal (which is quite similar to Apples NuKernal). Its a great way to flesh out functionality for Apples new stuff... add lots of hot new programmers to their staff (they've had a bit of brain drain)... and to unite two companies that are often trying to achieve similar goals. What part of this is so hard to understand?! > Conversely, Apple did not spend hundreds of millions of dollars on NeXT > after failing with Copland, just to use Copland. Copland was currently a Kernal, a look and feel... some middleware functionality but it was not getting integrated well and was not revolutionary enough. It had lots of blanks - and NeXT fills in many of them and gives a new focus. Intead of wollowing and infighting over directions - NeXT allows apple to point and say "that way" and have a goal.... to integrate many of the technologies they have with many that NeXT has... and to bring them together and make something larger than either of the two alone. That is MORE than copland... and MORE than NeXT. > Why not wait until some real info surfaces before becoming Chicken > Little? I agree. -- David K. Every MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way! -- =A91996 DKE. Non-exclusive, royalty free license to distribute is granted to any service provider except Microsoft. By distributing this, Microsoft agrees to pay $1,000 per posting.
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Don't rush into GX on NG OS! (was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 02:58:25 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5appoh$h9p@news4.digex.net> References: <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <AEF598F5-B3E64@198.68.42.188> "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Keep DPS where it is, but work on enhancing GX to replace/enhance > DPS over the long run... This seems rather reasonable... To modify/enhance or even replace DPS where and how it makes sense...making the enironment more robust, while while maintaining stability... This seems a fine goal... Followups to: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy (trimming cross posts) -- Thanks, later, John Kheit monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NEXTmail OK NEXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | Opinions expressed represent me only
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 5 Jan 1997 22:06:17 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> In article <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl>, eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl (Eelco Houwink) wrote: >I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that >Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily >OS) >sales and licensing Well, if that's true, they should have dug up the old System 7 port to 486's some time ago..... Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: crobato@kuentos.guam.net Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 6 Jan 1997 03:27:57 GMT Organization: Kuentos Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5aprft$af9@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> In <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) writes: >lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: > >>Robert Iacullo writes: >>: jmiller wrote: >>: > >>: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: >>: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) >>: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > >>: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > >> Where can I buy one? >> Cheers.. > >Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: >"We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand >megahertz or a gigahertz." >(http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) > >By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest >mainframe/any cpu? > Way lower than this. I think about 300MHz. It does not matter. Mainframes are not about MHz, just as super computers are not as well. They are about fail safe reliability. They are about multitentacled, multprocessor monsters with lotsa processors running in parallel, talking to each other through buses that zip gigabytes per sec. Rgds, Chris Famous People on the Day Windows 95 is Launched--- Neil Armstrong---"One Small Fortune for Bill Gates, One Giant Leap backward for Mankind." President Roosevelt---"This date shall live in infamy." *** crobato@kuentos.guam.net *** TKS for the Contributions.
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 22:31:40 +1030 From: dwareing@adelaide.on.net (David Wareing) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Distribution: inet Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Message-ID: <dwareing-3012962231400001@ppp136.adelaide.on.net.au> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <carol1-2212961927330001@macip-ara-153.apple.com> <32be96c1.37286449@news.sover.net> <32C04323.2A0B@bhip.infi.net> <32c0b947.56680464@news.sover.net> Organization: Weyland Yutani - Building Better Worlds In article <32c0b947.56680464@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: >Richard Fleming <rhflem@bhip.infi.net> wrote: > >>Lance Togar wrote: >>> And it caught on so well that 9 out 10 computer purchases aren't MACs. >>> But then, what do the rest (read vast majority) know. We're all just >>> sloshing around throwing our money away on non MAC computers because >>> we haven't seen the light. >>> >>> Oh well.... >> >>Cockroaches are more numerous than humans. That does not make them a >>higher life form! Oh Well... > >Ok, lets see. They've been on the planet a LOT longer than we have. >They take good care of their young - all of 'em. They spend very >little time killing each other. They've survived ALL of our high tech >attempts at extermination. Sounds like a success story to me and to >someone on the outside looking in, it might very well appear that THEY >have the upper hand. Doesn't sound like you're in much of a position >to judge life forms so... it's back to computers. >Oh, well.... Ok, we'll accept your fluffy New-Age arguments and concede that you (and David Suzuki) are inferior to cockroaches and blue-green algae. However, I am better than a cockroach and as such I'm more discerning when it comes to choosing a GUI. I want NeXTStep with *some* Apple technologies (e.g. QuickTime, Sprockets) thrown in. Eventually, I want a brand new GUI that completely replaces the desktop metaphor. -- David Wareing dwareing@adelaide.on.net Belair, South Australia http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~dwareing/ Macintosh Games Development Junk e-mail me at your own risk Get Swoop at http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/Ambrosia_Products/Swoop.html Get Bubble Trouble at http://bubble-trouble.com/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701051729.MAA18983@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: a81159ca8c9f3045a894b47e9c659819 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 97 12:29:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: a81159ca8c9f3045a894b47e9c659819 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) Original Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 15:04:11 -0800 > > Could you shortly explain to NEXTSTEP users what this special > > "Finder metaphor" is about? I've alway thought it is what > > NEXTSTEP delivers in the "Icon view" setting of WorkspaceManager, > > so I don't understand what this discussion is all about. > > (Unfortunately, there's no "Introduction to Apple for NEXTSTEP > > users" floating around on the net ;-) ) > > for the most part, yes. But some things are missing from that - > some more important than others. For instance - the desktop. Also, > the things that can be put on the desktop (besides files and > folders). Things like desktop printers. Now I'm not saying that the > desktop metaphor is crucial to the success of the new platform, but > it would be strange not having it. (Not to mention the advocacy FUD > it would generate from the W95 people that now have it - after > what, 10 years?) There are two apps, MonsterShelf and Fiend, that make a desktop for NeXTStep. I don't use a MAC but I think it is the same thing. The FileViewer in NeXTStep is far superior to the one in MAC, from what I have seen helping people in the computer lab. It is easier to follow, easier to see where you are and what's around you. I'm sure the Finder stuff can be added pretty easily. But of course this too is idle speculation. Who knows what they'll do? TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Awaiting Apple's NeXTStep
From: dbin@sce.de (David Binette) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: W95 printer driver for Next P.S. Laser printer sharing Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 02:29:31 GMT Organization: Satellite Communication Europe Distribution: world Message-ID: <32d161eb.3341100@news.hamburg.pop.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anybody know what the correct printer driver is? It an older NeXT Black box and the original NeXT Laser Postscript printer that came with it. Everything seems to be working Ok and we use HP LJ ps+ drivers to talk to this networked NeXT printer. I'm wondering if there is a more appropriate printer driver. Just what *IS* the NeXT PostScript printer. is it a repackaged product with a internal engine used in other popular printers? is there an equivalent printer driver for windows? I didn't find anything at www.next.com or at www.microsoft.com/kb a few words from the wise would be welcomed. -- */ unmatched closing comment
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701051726.MAA18980@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: e9da08530f2747c63c64e107231e4b59 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 97 12:26:27 -0500 Subject: Let it die, pretty please (Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime?) References: e9da08530f2747c63c64e107231e4b59 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: chris@rapidremedies.com (Rapid Remedies) Original Date: 5 Jan 1997 06:51:16 GMT > If you are saying that the next MacOS is going to have DPS instead > of GX, then you are absolutely nuts. Current Mac apps depend on > Quickdraw, or Quickdraw GX. If they are Quickdraw dependant for > printing, most of them work fine with Quickdraw GX, as it has > Quickdraw emulation for printing purposes. I am running aps that > are three and four years old with GX without any hitches. And (I'm prettu sure) every NeXTStep application depends on DPS, and many of them have been around for years and years. The bottom line is NO ONE KNOWS. Everyone is guessing when a month ago anyone who suggested this whole idea of Jobs @Apple would have been laughed at. What makes you all think you know what they are going to do next? Can this thread die now, please? No one who likes DPS is going to go for GX, and no one who likes GX is going to go for DPS. There. Done. Apple and NeXT are going to have to figure this one out. Please move this discussion out of comp.sys.next.misc. Idle speculation is not doing anyone any good. TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Awaiting Apple's NeXTStep
From: "Mark Eaton" <marke@nwlink.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 97 20:02:42 -0800 Organization: Northwest Link Message-ID: <AEF5B965-19D896@206.129.239.20> References: <32D06305.162@arcane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.nwlink.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.nwlink.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.nwlink.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.nwlink.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy > That doesn't portend the falling of the sky. Mac users' > predictions that > Apple will collapse if Apple uses any one of: I wouldn't worry too much. Advocacy newsgroups aside, Avie Tevanian made it pretty clear that the initial release would pretty much be NextStep, with future versions building from there. > > a) NeXTstep interface I fervently hope they do use this. Especially if its the unreleased interface that you guys have been telling us about. > b) Objective-C I think this is a non-issue. Tools will be available by the time DR1 ships that will allow developers to use what they want to use. I'm looking forward to learning the new language and finding out for myself if it offers as much power as we've been told. > c) DPS I don't have an opinion, but I think time issues will make the decision for us/Apple/NeXT. > d) NeXTstep kernel I don't have a problem with it, but if there are better options available they should be used. Mac the Knife is reporting that the Mach 3.0 kernel from the MkLinux project will play a role. > e) anything else Apple didn't develop themselves There are a lot of Apple technologies that will fill holes in NextStep... > Mac users seem to > be > embracing NIH syndrome. Not all of us... -Mark
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 04:42:25 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> On 01/04/97, Rapid Remedies wrote: >In article <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > > >> Anyway...like I >>said, if GX can replace DPS with the same or more functionality, >>w/o affecting stability, and with little resource or time requirements, >>then I'm all for it! However, that seems unlikely, and at least >>for a while, DPS will have to be kept around. Thank goodness, some >>consensus :)))) > >I've been following this thread for a bit here, and I want to make sure I >understand something. Are YOU (John Kheit) saying that DPS is going to >have to be "kept around" as far as the next MacOS, or just NextStep for >Next machines? > If he's not saying it, I will. You forget that there is another road here that Developers should be considering. OpenStep is crossplatform NOW on Mach, Solaris and NT, soon to be an Apple OS. If the DPS functionality was ripped from the Apple product, Apple looses its cross-platform advantages which it just got. DPS is part of the OpenStep spec. >If you are saying that the next MacOS is going to have DPS instead of GX, >then you are absolutely nuts. Current Mac apps depend on Quickdraw, or >Quickdraw GX. If they are Quickdraw dependant for printing, most of them >work fine with Quickdraw GX, as it has Quickdraw emulation for printing >purposes. I am running aps that are three and four years old with GX >without any hitches. > >If DPS is to replace Quickdraw, then NONE of the current Mac applications >are going to work, and a whole new crop of printer drivers will need to be >written. Wha? None of the Mac applications are going to run anyways until some emulation is written. What is native to the new OS is hardly relevant. The printer drivers arguement is rather bogus. How difficult is it to take a pre-rendered bitmap of the page and spew it to a printer. It sure won't be hard to get it working on Postscript printers. >This is not just an issue of monitor display, obviously. Most >Mac printers are NOT PostScript. Therefore, there is NO distinct >advantage to the claim that DPS is better for WYSIWYG. Replacing >Quickdraw with Quickdraw GX will not be nearly the undertaking as >replacing it with DPS - as far as all current third party apps are >concerned. And as Apple has been saying all along, compatibility with >current (System 7) apps is a must. This means DPS is NOT a viable option >for the future of the MacOS. > Apple has also said that compatibility is not likely in the first incarnation. Apple also has admited that compatibility is what killed the Copland. >Apple did not spend millions and millions of dollars on Quickdraw GX after >looking at DPS to just end up using DPS. They can be short sighted >(frequently), but not suicidal. There is no way that DPS has a future in >the next Mac OS. Apple has spent millions and millions of dollars on many technologies that haven't been widely accepted or have been abandoned as failures or near failures. Copland, Pink, Taligent, Newton (not the success that it was to be), Pippin (oh, sorry thats _next years_ failure). Apple didn't spend millions and millions on NeXT to just stick it on the shelf. Developers need that cross-platform capability. Having a substantially similar code base across different hardware platforms is going to be a win for developers. > -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 04:53:41 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5aq0gl$50s@news.digifix.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <chris-0501970021130001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <chris-0501970021130001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> On 01/04/97, Rapid Remedies wrote: >In article <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com>, >marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: > > >>> Sure it is, please tell me how you go about using a TrueType GX font's >>> built-in tables in OpenStep. It was a slightly rigged example ;) But GX's >>> layout manager does enable some *incredible* typographical stuff that >>> OpenStep's API does not do. Providing a GX-based text field in OpenStep >>> would enable all sorts of advanced formatting and typography capabilities. >>> Automatically, without a need to graft that functionality into OpenStep. >> >>Note that this proposal does not require that DPS be ripped out. > >If DPS isn't ripped out and made a SUBSET of GX, then all current Mac apps >will need to be rewritten. Thats gonna have to happen anyways. You need to start dealing with this issue. What Apple is able to offer with the new OS is that by re-writing your app, you'll be able to ship it on multiple platforms (AppleOS, NT, eventually 95) without major compatibility issues. That incentive will help to offset the other problems. >That's bunk. It won't happen. Current apps >will work with GX now just fine - they just won't take advantage of the >"extra" GX features. You think Apple will modify DPS such that there is a >big ass Quickdraw emulator within it to deal with application >compatibility. Talk about slow. > > >>yeah, and since ultimately it all gets rendered into PostScript for >>output, its pretty compelling that the onscreen representation also be in >>PS. > >Uh huh. Maybe for a Next machine printing to a PostScript printer. What >is the percentage of non-PS drivers for Next? It's something like 90% >non-PS for Macs. Most people do NOT use PostScript printers - so this >point is pointless. > The arguement you're using is bogus. If you aren't using a Postscript printer, the computer rasterizes the image just as it does now to a bitmap and then shoves it out the interface to the printer. Most any printer can be made to print a bitmap rather trivially. No complex drivers are requires. Yes, a DRIVER will be required, but not hugely complex ones. This gives cheap printer users the Postscript rasterization at the computer end. > >>You can't have it both ways. DPS and GX both have features not found in PS >>level 2. No, the extra features won't print from DPS, neither will they >>from GX. > >This is incorrect. What GX has "extra" it works out for any printer, >whether it has those abilities or not. If it's a PS 1 printer, it will >print these extra features just fine. Not so for PostScript. GX is >superior in this regard. Look at a regular Mac PostScript driver (such as >the Laserwriter 8 driver) - it's 556k in size. Look at the Laserwriter >driver for GX. 77k in size. Why? GX has a built-in PostScript engine >for creating PostScript output to recreate exactly what it displays. > >I have a Canon printer with a GX driver. Without it, I cannot rotate text >boxes in WordPerfect without them looking like crap. Same with EPS >files. If GX is loaded, this is not a problem. Looks as though it came >from a PostScript printer. > And the same would be the case in a DPS world. Except that it WOULD be coming from a Postscript rasterizer, just like it would if you were using a postscript printer. The difference is that the rasterizer is on the computer side of things. > >>> >>> )Applying transforms to the bitmaps does not require PSWraps or any >>> )such thing. Again, making a higher level class/kit structure for >>> )more automated control in OpenStep may well be the way to go. One >>> )can do this for DPS, just as easily as for GX. >>> >>> Actually you can't. You'd need to build a layer that would abstract PS' >>> procedural interface to something on the level of GX's object-oriented >>> one, then you could put on a higher level API. Again at a performance loss, >>> and when it comes right down to it, why bother? You're suggesting >>> reinventing a fairly large wheel. >> >>No, you are suggesting reinventing a fairly large wheel. DPS is already on >>the cart, GX is not. > >You are talking drivel. Apple LOOKED at DPS years ago before the GX >project was started as a possible replacement for Quickdraw. They said >NO. Quickdraw GX is the replacement - regardless of whether Apple takes >the Mac OS and inserts pieces of the Next OS in it - or if they start with >the Next OS. GX hasn't acheived universality in the Mac world now, and thats just too dang long. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 22:05:06 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF5D929-2FF77@198.68.42.184> References: <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John C. Randolph <jcr@idiom.com> said: [corrections snipt] >Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that >GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a >vertical frame interval, isn't it? How is DPS for animating text? Are there any animation applications that use DPS calls to provide animation? On the Mac, there is a GX codec for QuickTime, and Lari Software's Electrifier uses GX byte streams over the internet to animate web pages. From my understanding, Bravo does NOT use a PostScript interpreter, so even Adobe isn't happy with PostScript performance for web-page animation. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: Ones-And-Zeros@prodigy.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ! MASS POST Was Here! (ilTNpY) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 05:40:05 GMT Organization: Mass Post Message-ID: <5aq38o$3no6@usenet1y.prodigy.net> MASS POST--the program by Ones and Zeros--has been used to send this message to thousands of newsgroups. (ilTNpY)
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 05:01:02 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> On 01/05/97, Chris Murphy wrote: >In article <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, marcel@cs.tu-berlin.de >(Marcel Weiher) wrote: <snip> >>Hmm...do you think the Apple that said NO to DPS as a display technology >>would have bought NeXT as their new OS? It also seems that Adobe has >>gotten a little humbler in the meantime. > >I know for a fact that Apple didn't buy Next on the basis of DPS. When >asked if DPS or GX would be used in the new OS, Hancock said that was one >of the things they had to look at carefully, and should have those answers >by January 7th. Do YOU think this would be a question if Apple was not >concerned about the abilities of DPS? > If you think that she is so dedicated to GX, why didn't she just say 'GX is our graphics engine of choice'. There is little to lose as far as the NeXT people go, why would she care if she looses them. Do you think that Ms Hancock is so stupid as to answer a question such as that without having 30 people ready to back her up on what she says? She'll have to present a unified front amongst her people. Mixed signals from Apple about this would be damaging. DPS will be in the product. Expect GX to follow and for them both to eventually be on equal terms. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: rbraver@ohww.norman.ok.us (Robert Braver) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5aq38o$3no6@usenet1y.prodigy.net> Date: 6 Jan 1997 06:19:58 GMT Control: cancel <5aq38o$3no6@usenet1y.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5aq38o$3no6@usenet1y.prodigy.net> Sender: Ones-And-Zeros@prodigy.net Spam cancelled. Autocancel spam type: ONESZEROS Original Subject: ! MASS POST Was Here! (ilTNpY)
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 05:30:52 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5aq2mc$r0d@duke.squonk.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <chris-0501970021130001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> you wrote: > If DPS isn't ripped out and made a SUBSET of GX, then all current > Mac apps will need to be rewritten. That's bunk. It won't > happen. Current apps will work with GX now just fine - they just > won't take advantage of the "extra" GX features. You think Apple > will modify DPS such that there is a big ass Quickdraw emulator > within it to deal with application compatibility. Talk about > slow. > You are apparently joining this news item about two weeks late. Apple bought NeXT for NeXTSTEP. They gave up on recreating all of the MacOS toolboxes for a modern operating system. Instead, they will have this *new* operating system, which is in fact completely incompatable (at the programming level) from MacOS. That is fact. Apple failed with Copland. NeXTSTEP will be the basis of their NeXT OS. This does not prove that they will not use QuickDrawGX. It just proves that your reasoning is completely wrong. There will be an emulation mode to duplicate the system 7.5 environment (think of it as SoftPC, except it's for running Mac apps). However, native applications will be written to the OpenStep API's, not the NeXTSTEP ones. If Apple had time to spend on massive projects, they would have stuck with Copland instead of spending money to buy NeXT. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 05:24:58 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5aq2ba$r0d@duke.squonk.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> chris@rapidremedies.com (Rapid Remedies) wrote: > I've been following this thread for a bit here, and I want to > make sure I understand something. Are YOU (John Kheit) saying > that DPS is going to have to be "kept around" as far as the next > MacOS, or just NextStep for Next machines? > > If you are saying that the next MacOS is going to have DPS instead > of GX, then you are absolutely nuts. Current Mac apps depend on > Quickdraw, or Quickdraw GX. If they are Quickdraw dependant for > printing, most of them work fine with Quickdraw GX, as it has > Quickdraw emulation for printing purposes. I am running aps that > are three and four years old with GX without any hitches. For one, I have many Mac users who disagree with your praise for QuickDrawGX's ability to print. > If DPS is to replace Quickdraw, then NONE of the current Mac > applications are going to work, and a whole new crop of printer > drivers will need to be written. And how many of them do you think are going to work, natively, on MacStep to start with? It's going to be a number mighty close to zero. *All* of the API's are changing. The new operating system is based on NeXTSTEP. They are not starting with the current MacOS and futzing around with that. They tried that tactic already, and after spending many millions of dollars, they decided they would be better off by *giving up* on that project, and buying an operating system which already works. There will be an emulation box of some sort for mimicing the system 7.5 environment. That can include a QuickDraw to DPS converter. No need to rewrite the entire middleware layer of OpenStep simply to rip out DPS to replace it with a technology that has no proven track record. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 05:37:27 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5aq32n$r0d@duke.squonk.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: > If Apple is going to incorporate GX into DPS -- they are wasting > time. GX contains a PostScript engine for dealing with PostScript > fonts, and EPS files, and for creating PS output for files or > printers. To have DPS do all of this and risk compatibility is > a huge mistake. Apple has said several times that DPS is inferior > to GX. They have also said, many times, that "Pink" was the ultimate operating system project. Pink became Taligent. Taligent will probably never ship an operating system. They have also said, many times, how wonderful Copland was going to be. Guess what. Copland ain't going to happen. The kernel from Copland may be part of the new OS, but the original Copland/Gershwin plans are gone. They don't exist. Apple can stick up it's nose at industry-standard technology if it wants, but I don't think it can afford to. Sure, talk about how perfect QuickDrawGX is. Rip out native postscript support in the new operating system. Fuck over everyone, just as long as you can say you're doing it for "superior technology". --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 05:46:50 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5aq3ka$r0d@duke.squonk.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> <remedies-0501971449100001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: > Be doesn't use DPS....so obviously Apple is relatively unconcerned > about DPS. Does Be use QuickDrawGX? No? Well, maybe Apple is unconcerned about QuickDrawGX. > That's not why they bought NeXT. NextStep/OpenStep is proven, > more reliable -- someone said something about Be OS having a lack > of I/O routines for some very basic things. Regardless, what > does Be, and NeXT have in common that Apple DOESN'T have? A > pre-emptively multitasking operating system with protected memory. They were essentially buying OpenStep, the "middleware layer". I hate that term, but can't think of something else to call it. Apple realized that rewriting all their Toolboxes was hopeless, so they went shopping for a replacement. That replacement is OpenStep. That replacement uses DPS. Ripping DPS out of OpenStep simply to replace it with something like QDGX is a significant project, and I really don't think it will give them enough in benefits. It's a stupid idea. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: vbragin@ix.netcom.com (Vicki Bragin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need help from users of Rasmol for NEXTSTEP Date: 6 Jan 1997 05:44:41 GMT Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <5aq3g9$h71@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> I am desperately looking for somebody who might help in recompiling the NEXTSTEP version of RasMol to update it and implement some functionalities that have been added to the other versions (Mac, Windows, SGI, etc.). For those who may not know about RasMol, it is a molecular display freeware written by Roger Sayle of Glaxo Wellcome. He has generously shared the code with the scientific world (supposedly 30,000 visitors to the RasMol home page over last 9 months, most recent count). It has been compiled for just about any platform one can think of. The problem is I believe nobody is maintaining the NEXTSTEP version. I tried to compile the NEXTSTEP version from the source code, there did not appear to be any problems in compilation, but I am unable to get a graphics display on the window. I will give more detail to any chemist, biochemist, molecular biologist, ... inerested in helping out. -- ********************************************************** Victoria M. Bragin Physical Sciences Division, Pasadena City College 1570 E. Colorado Blvd., Pasadena, CA 91106-2003 Phone: (818) 585-7147 Fax: (818) 585-7919 E-mail: (NeXTmail and MIME mail welcome) vbragin@nextlab.calstatela.edu vbragin@ix.netcom.com vbragin@paccd.cc.ca.us vbragin@pslc.ucla.edu **********************************************************
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 5 Jan 1997 22:51:54 -0800 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Message-ID: <jcr.852532820@idiom.com> References: <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <AEF5D929-2FF77@198.68.42.184> "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> writes: >John C. Randolph <jcr@idiom.com> said: >[corrections snipt] >>Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that >>GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a >>vertical frame interval, isn't it? >How is DPS for animating text? Well, I have a few screen-saver modules that do that sort of thing, and they seem pretty snappy to me. They all have delay loops in them, so I don't know how fast they *could* go. If you want to get the definitive word on DPS for Text effects, check out a program called Create, available from Stone Design. >Are there any animation applications that use DPS calls to provide >animation? Well, the one that springs to mind is Animo, from Cambridge animation systems. This is the system that studios like Disney, Warner, Dreamworks, and Turner Feature animation are using today to produce cartoons. I gather that the movie "space Jam" was done using Animo, with no hand-drawn cells at all. >On the Mac, there is a GX codec for QuickTime, and Lari Software's >Electrifier uses GX byte streams over the internet to animate web pages. Speaking of CODEC's, three years ago, NeXT demonstrated their NeXTIME technology, which used wavelet compression for video. I hope we'll see this used by outfits like Avid and the like. >From my understanding, Bravo does NOT use a PostScript interpreter, so even >Adobe isn't happy with PostScript performance for web-page animation. Animating things over the web is not really my field. I will point out that the idea behind the first "display postscript", that is the NeWS system that james Gosling invented, was to cut down the needed bandwidth between a GUI client and server by communication in Postscript. If I wanted you to draw a window, I could tell you once how to do it, and then just tell you give me a window, and here are the dimensions. Same with a slider, same with any other UI object I might want you to provide. -jcr
From: "Alex kac" <akac@mail.utexas.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 01:09:27 -0600 Organization: Web Information Solutions Message-ID: <akac-0601970109270001@slip-104-30.ots.utexas.edu> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> In article <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de>, uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) wrote: :That's an item I've never understood. If I choose "Print" in the app I create :my document with and can choose whatever printer I like there, for what :purpose do I need a "desktop printer"? Desktop printers are useful in that I can directly see what jobs I have queued up. For example, I normally print about 3-4 jobs at a time. With desktop printers, I can open up a printer and see that this printer is printing this job and is on this page. When i worked at Apple and had access to about thousands of printers and normally only used 3 lasers near me, I would usually print to the one nearest me, but if I found that a certain print job was taking too long, I could open one desktop printer, find the job that was waiting to print AFTER the job that was taking a long time and move it to another printer so that it would print. So basically I was printing to two printers simultaneously. Another interesting use I had for desktop printers was sometimes I realized that I had to print another copy of something. I would open the desktop printer. Grab the job and COPY it to the DESKTOP. Then I would drag the job back to the printer and it would create another job for me. Desktop printers are mainly useful to see what is going on with your printer.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: Painfully Slow Text Scrolling in ROM Monitor on ND Turbo Cube Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E3KM7s.HtM@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 05:07:04 GMT References: <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu> Organization: University of Waterloo Keywords: Text Scrolling, ND, Cube, Turbo In article <5afvhl$bln@pesto.cs.utexas.edu>, Yi Liu <liuyi@cs.utexas.edu> wrote: >[ Crosspost: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,] >[ comp.sys.next.sysadmin ] >[ Followup: comp.sys.next.misc ] > >I recently got a ND Turbo Cube. It runs everything perfectly except >for this problem: > >Problem: When booting in verbose mode, the text scrolls very slowly > line-by-line from bottom to top, kind of like watching a > terminal connected via 2400 baud modem, but felt a lot > slower and a lot more annoying. > You're stuck with it. It's an artifact of the '040 having to push all those bits around the ND's frame buffer over the NeXTbus. Not fun. Nothing you can do about it. I avoid verbose mode on my ND cube whenever possible (and will do an NMI reset when working in the ROM monitor when the cursor gets to the bottom of the screen. :-)) -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: kindall@manual.com (Jerry Kindall) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 19:14:12 -0500 Organization: Manual Labor Message-ID: <kindall-0501971914120001@ppp.manual.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> In article <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com>, chris@rapidremedies.com (Rapid Remedies) wrote: >In article <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > > >> Anyway...like I >>said, if GX can replace DPS with the same or more functionality, >>w/o affecting stability, and with little resource or time requirements, >>then I'm all for it! However, that seems unlikely, and at least >>for a while, DPS will have to be kept around. Thank goodness, some >>consensus :)))) > >I've been following this thread for a bit here, and I want to make sure I >understand something. Are YOU (John Kheit) saying that DPS is going to >have to be "kept around" as far as the next MacOS, or just NextStep for >Next machines? > >If you are saying that the next MacOS is going to have DPS instead of GX, >then you are absolutely nuts. Current Mac apps depend on Quickdraw, or >Quickdraw GX. If they are Quickdraw dependant for printing, most of them >work fine with Quickdraw GX, as it has Quickdraw emulation for printing >purposes. I am running aps that are three and four years old with GX >without any hitches. No, he didn't say that the next MacOS would have DPS instead of GX. Is there any reason why we can't have both? I can certainly imagine DPS being very useful for programs that think in PostScript internally, such as Illustrator. Not to mention programs being ported from the NeXT platform, and there do appear to be some worth porting. And I can certainly imagine that having GX around would be great for supporting existing Mac applications as well as new ones. I can't think of a reason. Nor can I think of a reason why including both means that one must be used to emulate the other, when we're talking about an operating system which is no doubt capable of loading either DPS or QDGX dynamically when it's needed, instead of having it take up memory all the time. Since QDGX already exists and is native PowerPC code, and DPS already exists as part of the NeXTstep OS which is being ported to the Mac, why CAN'T we (at least in the long run) have both? -- Jerry Kindall <kindall@manual.com> Manual Labor <http://www.manual.com/> Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting Mac hardware and software, MIDI, and more for sale! See http://www.manual.com/sale.html for a current list
From: Kevin Palmer <kpalmer@neosoft.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 02:01:33 -0500 Organization: NeoSoft, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Dallacqua wrote: > > On 28 Dec 1996 06:53:37 GMT, andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com > wrote: > > >For those who don't know, Trilobyte used NeXTstep to create 7th Guest > >and 11th Hour. Id used NeXTstep to create Doom and Quake. > > Weren't the video sequences for 7th Guest(and maybe 11th Hour) > done with 3DStudio(although I guess this doesn't necessarily mean > they didn't use NeXTstep for any of it)? -- I am almost positive that the images on 7th guest were done in Alias|Wavefront Power Animator on the SGI. It was a while back when I read the article. Kevin Palmer fon 713-787-6828 pgr 281-725-6737 net kpalmer@neosoft.com URL www.neosoft.com/~kpalmer
From: cwolf@wolfware.com (Christopher Wolf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: access to extended DOS partitions in NS/Intel Date: 6 Jan 1997 08:00:59 GMT Organization: Best Internet Communications Message-ID: <5aqbfr$se0@nntp1.best.com> References: <5ak3p7$8dn@nntp.Stanford.EDU> <5allb6$5in@news.next.com> In-Reply-To: <5allb6$5in@news.next.com> On 01/03/97, Joe Keenan wrote: >In article <5ak3p7$8dn@nntp.Stanford.EDU> kpfleger@hpp.Stanford.EDU (Karl >Pfleger) writes: > >> I have 3 partitions on the HD of my NS/Intel machine: DOS/Win95, NS, and a >> 3rd partition what was previous Linux, but I just reformetted to be an >> extended DOS partition. How do I get the new extended DOS drive to be >> accessible in NS (e.g., Workspace, unix command line, ...) ? >> Or is this not possible even though NS is capable of reading the file >> system? That would seem silly since NS's fdisk understands that the >> partition is there. > >No, it's not possible. fdisk understands the partition table, but the DOS >file system itself only understands primary partitions, not extended/logical >partitions. A big hole, I agree, but that's what we've currently got. > >joe Check out vmount 0.4... the announcement which I just read in c.s.n.announce seems to imply that it can deal with extended DOS partitions. - Chris -- __________________________________________________ Christopher A. Wolf - NeXTStep/OpenStep Developer Mail: cwolf@wolfware.com Web: http://www.wolfware.com/cwolf/cwolf.shtml __________________________________________________
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 07:03:16 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> In article <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: > If you think that she is so dedicated to GX, why didn't she just say >'GX is our graphics engine of choice'. There is little to lose as far as >the NeXT people go, why would she care if she looses them. > > Do you think that Ms Hancock is so stupid as to answer a question >such as that without having 30 people ready to back her up on what she says? > > She'll have to present a unified front amongst her people. Mixed >signals from Apple about this would be damaging. > > > > DPS will be in the product. Expect GX to follow and for them both >to eventually be on equal terms. You contradict yourself on a regular basis. You say DPS will be in the product contradicting Hancock who hasn't even said. She only said that they will have to work that out. This means they probably don't have time to remove DPS right now, but will do it eventually, just like they will toss out remaining the remaining "Unixness" of OpenStep. DPS cannot emulate GX. GX can emulate DPS. I suspect that they will work a DPS engine (similar to the existince PS engine) into GX and run GX as the main API. But it really comes down to Apple engineers and NeXT engineers as they know best. However, I doubt you will see DPS running along with GX as equals. It's one or the other. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com.nonsense> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 19:45:58 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32D04B46.C54@exnext.com.nonsense> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Uli Zappe wrote: > > marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: > > But some things are missing from that - some more > > important than others. For instance - the desktop. Also, the things that > > can be put on the desktop (besides files and folders). [...] > > Some NeXTers mention the never-released "tabbed shelf". > > Ah, interesting. When I moved from my ATARI (which is very similar to the Mac > concerning the desktop and had a strong professional following in Germany) to > NEXTSTEP years ago, I found it very strange that there was no "desktop". > > But it took me only few days to find out why: In a multitasking environment, > you thend to have *lots* of open windows that almost certainly will cover > most of what you want to access via the desktop so it becomes more than hard > to use the desktop. > > OTOH, you don't even need the "tabbed shelf" for a replacement of the desktop > in NEXTSTEP. As you probably know, you have a (non-tabbed) shelf area on > every FileViewer window; you may freely choose its size. On this area you can > put whatever you'd put on the desktop otherwise. The difference is, that one > single click on the NeXT icon in the dock brings up the FileViewer window, so > with one click you have access to all icons on your "desktop". This makes a > *lot* of sense in a multitasking environment. > > So, just think of the shelf area in the FileViewer window as a "desktop > within a window", and you have what you want. You can also set up your FileViewer windows so that you essentially have multiple, special-purpose desktops. You can have a graphics desktop, a word processing desktop, a spreadsheet desktop, etc. Each window viewing or browsing a related directory: a directory where all your graphics-in-progress are located; a directory where your novel-in-progress is located; a directory where your company spreadsheets are located. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Sun, 05 Jan 97 19:07:25 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5apps0$p4u@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> In article <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) wrote: >lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: > >>Robert Iacullo writes: >>: jmiller wrote: >>: > >>: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: >>: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) >>: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > >>: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > >> Where can I buy one? >> Cheers.. > >Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: >"We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand >megahertz or a gigahertz." >(http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) > >By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest >mainframe/any cpu? > how big is the cache on this 1000mhz PPC? And how fast is the memory system of current system... For many things today its not the CPU that the problem, but the memory speed. Stephan
From: Gary Driggs <garyd@transport.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: R/E The NeXT Story Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 22:41:45 -0800 Organization: Transport Logic Message-ID: <32D09EA9.5E96@transport.com> References: <32CD9C97.643F@cfmo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------571A5F916810" ------------571A5F916810 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There have been a small handful of books about Jobs and NeXT, Inc. that have come out over the last 10 years. The only one I've found interesting to read at any length is Randall E. Stross's 'Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing.' I'm curious if anyone out there has feedback on this title. It was published by Atheneum in '93 and the ISBN # is 0-689-12135-0. -Gary ------------571A5F916810 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <HTML><BODY> <DT>There have been a small handful of books about Jobs and NeXT, Inc. that have come out over the last 10 years. The only one I've found interesting to read at any length is Randall E. Stross's 'Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing.' I'm curious if anyone out there has feedback on this title. It was published by Atheneum in '93 and the ISBN # is 0-689-12135-0.</DT> <DT> </DT> <DT>-Gary </DT> </BODY> </HTML> ------------571A5F916810--
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:31:45 +1030 From: dwareing@adelaide.on.net (David Wareing) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Distribution: inet Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Message-ID: <dwareing-3112961531450001@ppp41.adelaide.on.net.au> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <carol1-2212961927330001@macip-ara-153.apple.com> <32be96c1.37286449@news.sover.net> <5a9aau$qmj@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> <32c86306.346996593@news.sover.net> Organization: Weyland Yutani - Building Better Worlds In article <32c86306.346996593@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: >christw@lexis-nexis.com (Christopher C. Wood) wrote: >>|> >Apple then paid Xerox an enormous amount of stock for the rights >>|> >to many of their windowing/mice ideas. >> >>|> Xerox got screwed but it wasn't the first time. >> >>Xerox got $2 Million to $7 Million (depending on when they exercised >>their stock options) for no risk and a day's time of some of their R&D >>staff. You say they got screwed. Can you support that with anything >>more than just your opinion? >> >I haven't seen any support for the 2 - 7 million figure but let's say >it's right on. Xerox SHOULD have rented the widows/mice stuff in the >same way that MS rented BASIC. Very poor management decision. Xerox >got screwed - plain and simple. Xerox were the ones who made the supposed mistake*, yet you're blaming Apple for screwing them over? How does that work out? (*remember that they didn't have crystal balls in the early '80s. Neither you nor Xerox knew that Apple were going to totally revolutionize the industry. They did know however, that their stock was valuable, and thus took up an opportunity to get their hands on some -- at the time it would have made great sense. It's only with 20/20 hindsight that you can pass your judgement on Xerox). -- David Wareing dwareing@adelaide.on.net Belair, South Australia http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/~dwareing/ Macintosh Games Development Junk e-mail me at your own risk Get Swoop at http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/Ambrosia_Products/Swoop.html Get Bubble Trouble at http://bubble-trouble.com/
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 6 Jan 1997 08:08:05 GMT Organization: "He wants to fight the dragon, he wants to kill the beast." Message-ID: <5aqbt5$h0e@white.koehntopp.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) writes: >> Things like desktop printers. >That's an item I've never understood. If I choose "Print" in the app I create >my document with and can choose whatever printer I like there, for what >purpose do I need a "desktop printer"? Desktop printers are a shorthand macro for "Fire up the default application for this document and select its Print command." The macro may even select a printer in the print dialog depending on the desktop printers name. This effect can probably be had by creating a Nextstep application that accepts any filetype, determines the default application for it by communicating with Workspace and sending messages to the Workspace to start the app and to the app to make it print. Perhaps a variant of Opener.app could do this? Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "<laura> Das muss ich nicht pollen, das angel ich mir aus dem spool." -- Beruehmte letzte Worte.
From: frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: W95 printer driver for Next P.S. Laser printer sharing Date: 6 Jan 1997 13:13:37 GMT Organization: NO ORGANIZATION, INC. Distribution: world Message-ID: <5aqtq1$hoc@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <32d161eb.3341100@news.hamburg.pop.de> Cc: dbin@sce.de In <32d161eb.3341100@news.hamburg.pop.de> David Binette wrote: > Anybody know what the correct printer driver is? > It an older NeXT Black box and the original NeXT > Laser Postscript printer that came with it. > > Everything seems to be working Ok and we use HP LJ ps+ > drivers to talk to this networked NeXT printer. > > I'm wondering if there is a more appropriate printer driver. > > Just what *IS* the NeXT PostScript printer. > > is it a repackaged product with a internal engine used > in other popular printers? > is there an equivalent printer driver for windows? > > I didn't find anything at www.next.com or > at www.microsoft.com/kb > > a few words from the wise would be welcomed. > It is a Canon printing engine connected by a video interface to the NeXT system. The NeXT does all the rendering and controls the NeXT Laser over this line. The Printer itself is has no 'intelligence' whatever. Since the DisplayPostScript system does all the rendering it should be able to cope with PostScript Level 2 so you could try to produce L2 code or use a PPD of a L2 printer. The PPD of the NeXTLaser is part of the NeXTStep system (/NextLibrary/PrinterTypes/English.lproj/NeXT_400_dpi_Laser_Printer.ppd). -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
From: breiter@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (Bernhard Reiter) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Favorite sendmail bugs Date: 6 Jan 1997 13:05:06 GMT Organization: Universitaet Osnabrueck Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5aqta2$ee7@deimos.rz.uni-osnabrueck.de> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <jinx6568-3012961209030001@news.sover.net> <32c95a03.169884656@mambo> <5a9vsr$4fs@camel5.mindspring.com> <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In article <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr>, hugues@precipice.fdn.fr (Hugues RICHARD) writes: >>>Sendmail is everything. >>>It's dessert topping, a floor cleaner and a kitchen sink. >> >>>And because it's everything, it's so damn ugly. Complex, huge and >>>cryptic as hell. Making it extremely bug prone. > Yes, sendmail is complex. > It is complex because it does a lot things. Since it is complex it > can contains bugs. From what i heard, there might be some other programs for mail delivery, which might not be as ugly and insecure as sendmail, but with still a lot of power. qmail or exim perhaps. Bernhard Reiter
From: mandtbac@news.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.macintosh,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep,comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Favorite sendmail bugs Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy Date: 6 Jan 1997 14:58:43 GMT Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc. Distribution: comp Message-ID: <5ar3v3$t4j@josie.abo.fi> References: <32BD0901.48ED@sfbayrun.com> <59kdkl$ohd@news4.digex.net> <E2vBuB.22J@micmac.com> <jinx6568-3012961209030001@news.sover.net> <32c95a03.169884656@mambo> <5a9vsr$4fs@camel5.mindspring.com> <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr> followups MASSIVELY pruned. Hugues RICHARD, in <5ah3a6$1ek@precipice.fdn.fr>: [...] >It is complex because it does a lot things. Since it is complex it >can contains bugs. But since it is useda lot on Internet, it is now >one of the most tested software on unix. You will be able to find >still new bugs but more the time will go on more it will be hard to >find bugs. how many years has it been, now? how many decades? the reason sendmail always has one more bug is that development still continues on it. *of course* there will be new bugs, as long as new code is still being added! >Now you can do lite version of sendmail, fo small servers. that would be by using some other MTA. sendmail is not without competition, you know. personally, i say if smail or qmail will do the job you want done, use one of them; use sendmail if and only if it'll do the job and no other package will. -- "...Everybody got this broken feeling like their father or their dog just died..." - Leonard Cohen
From: mandtbac@news.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy Date: 6 Jan 1997 15:13:21 GMT Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc. Distribution: comp Message-ID: <5ar4qh$t4j@josie.abo.fi> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> <5aprft$af9@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> followups pruned. crobato@kuentos.guam.net, in <5aprft$af9@lehi.kuentos.guam.net>: >In <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) writes: >>By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest >>mainframe/any cpu? >Way lower than this. I think about 300MHz. i understand the DEC Alpha ships in a 500MHz version. >It does not matter. Mainframes are not about MHz, just as super >computers are not as well. They are about fail safe reliability. that, and I/O. reliability is what clustering technologies specialize in, VAX/VMS clusters and the like. mainframes to some extent also - i heard IBM ships/shipped an MVS mainframe where you could change a faulty CPU on the fly. -- "...Everybody got this broken feeling like their father or their dog just died..." - Leonard Cohen
From: sschaper@inlink.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 15:47:43 GMT Organization: InLink Message-ID: <32d11e58.2884009@news.inlink.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:58:34 +1300, ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: >Trouble is, GX solves a great number of real problems that both Mac users >and developers have been moaning about for years. It offers a powerful, >customizable next-generation architecture that the Mac desperately needs. Trouble is, GX is such a pain that most MacOS users don't install it, or if they do, they soon disinstall it. It is a memory hog, it causes compatibility problems, it alters fonts, it crashes the machine.
From: sschaper@inlink.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 15:51:19 GMT Organization: InLink Message-ID: <32d11f48.3124373@news.inlink.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <chris-0501970021130001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq2mc$r0d@duke.squonk.net> How about this: Apple to sell GX technology to Adobe in exchange for DPS licensing. Then, if Adobe wants to and can, it could add the additional GX functionality to PS.
From: skappel@intranetsol.com (Steve Kappel) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 6 Jan 1997 16:05:56 GMT Organization: IntraNet Solutions, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ar7t4$6qv@misery.millcomm.com> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.hawaii.edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> <5ankv4$16em$4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> In article <5ankv4$16em$4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, zapster@ibm.net writes: >In <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com>, "Frank Chu" <chu@ipoline.com> writes: >>I have never seem a low chip such as PPC CPUS. I won't run a PMac since >>it runs that shitty MacOS. IBM's PPC runs a version of NT with nearly >>no applications available, and for the price of a System/6000(PPC CPU) >>running AIX I can get a SUN Sparc running Solaris with 50% more performance >>or even that newest O2 SGI. A SMP dual Pentium PRO200 with 512k cache >>onboard running ULTRA FAST Unixs like Solaris, BSD, Linux or SCO costs only >>half of those over priced shitty machines! PPC CPUs can really eat shit. > >Umm, I highly doubt sun makes anything that can beat an RS/6000 system >running with 512 processors... The IBM PowerParallel system is one of >the fastest, if not the fastest, generally available mainframe one can buy. >Solaris is also an extremely slow OS, it blows. So lesse, I have my IBM >RS/6000 PowerParalell with 512 processors and 16 gigs of ram. Lesse, You will be forgiven for your IBM-centric view. You are right in that Sun doesn't make it (yet). However, there are SPARC and Solaris platforms from other vendors that do. Try http://endeavor.fujitsu.co.jp/hypertext/fpcrf/e/ap1000.html which is about the Fujitsu AP1000 that supports up to 1024 SuperSPARCs. By slow Solaris you apparently have an outdated view, perhaps 4-5 years ago in the Solaris 2.0/2.1/2.2 days. Solaris 2.5 is very fast. -- ______________________________________________________________________ Steve Kappel steve.kappel@intranetsol.com IntraNet Solutions, Inc. http://www.intranetsol.com/~skappel 9625 West 76th Street skappel@winternet.com Eden Prairie, MN 55344
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 09:24:04 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF67854-3AA82@198.68.42.184> References: <jcr.852532820@idiom.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John C. Randolph <jcr@idiom.com> said: I said: >>Are there any animation applications that use DPS calls to provide >>animation? > >Well, the one that springs to mind is Animo, from Cambridge animation >systems. This is the system that studios like Disney, Warner, Dreamworks, >and Turner Feature animation are using today to produce cartoons. > >I gather that the movie "space Jam" was done using Animo, with no >hand-drawn cells at all. That is an animation creator. I meant animation playback. Animation of text is trivial using GX. Text objects are just entries in the (hidden) GX shape-object data base. You evoke the drawing of an object by saying "DrawShape(myShape);" And the database is optimized behind the scenes to handle your drawing for you. Want to distort text in some way and animate the distortion? Trivial. And fast, since only the information that changes is replaced in the data base. The rest remains cached for fast usage. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: pete@ohm.york.ac.uk (-bat.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: 6 Jan 1997 17:30:00 GMT Organization: The University of York, UK Message-ID: <5arcqo$aud@netty.york.ac.uk> References: <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> "Cesar M. Cintron" <ccintron@gte.net> writes: > - The very old, very crummy Unix part of Next's OS is far worse than > even the freeware Linux (I know, because I used Linux for several years, > as did my friend). <shrug> - depends on what you like really - "old & crummy" in this case translates to 4.3 BSD which is fine for most uses - true, 4.4 would be nice, but 4.3 never caused me any problems. > language called "Objective C". It's not C, or C++, but a different > variation on them. Next didn't even have an Objective C compiler; they > depended on the freeware GNU Objective C compiler! Thats a good thing isn't it ? Whybother writiing your own compiled when theres a good free one out there anyway - the Objective C compiler is GCC as is the C++ compiler. Most ppl with machines install gcc anyway as an alternative so why not ? > - The reason you don't hear too much about Objective C is that it was a > weird, quirky language. It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, The reason you don't hear too much about ObjC is that it was only really used by NeXT. As far as wrapping up objects is concerend it's as good as C++ and also provides run-time binding of the method calls. Gives it some advantgaes in this application. You can always use C++ if you want - theres nothing stopping you. > called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military > computer language called Ada also offers interfaces). There is nothing Mmmm... someone who thinks Ada is "way cool". Ever tried to use it ? Actually, do you know anyone in the military who uses it ? Just curious. > - OK, it has DisplayPostscript like SGIs do, but in order to customize > your desktop (i.e., add new menus), you actually had to WRITE POSTSCRIPT > CODE! SGI dropped that way of doing things years ago, as did Sun. Just not true. maybe it was once, but not since I;ve been using NeXT and thats a good number of years. As for your following comments on Pixar's renderman, well thats been dropped anyway and theres a free version of OpenGL out there called Mesa. You can find my OpenStep "port" (very little changes) on the ftp site. Works fine. I wouldnn't worry too much if I were you - you just have some out of date info. -bat.
From: cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 13:03:18 -0500 Organization: University of Maine System Message-ID: <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de>, uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) wrote: > cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > > I like NEXTSTEP's desktop with the floating > > menu strips and the dock. But I really would like to be able to deal with > > files with the Finder metaphor > > Could you shortly explain to NEXTSTEP users what this special "Finder > metaphor" is about? I've alway thought it is what NEXTSTEP delivers in the > "Icon view" setting of WorkspaceManager, so I don't understand what this > discussion is all about. (Unfortunately, there's no "Introduction to Apple > for NEXTSTEP users" floating around on the net ;-) ) By 'Finder metaphor' I meant the way the Finder displays each level of the file hierarchy in a separate window. I haven't had the opportunity to use NEXTSTEP, and I'm assuming that the File Viewer doesn't do this. If it in fact does, then I owe an apology & need to wipe the egg off my face... <grin> But whether the Finder is more intuitive or not, there's a bigger issue -- Apple needs to make this OS feel like an evolutionary step up from the current MacOS (a big evolutionary step, but an evolutionary step nonetheless). Unfortunately, superior technology and superior design don't by themselves sell computers or OSes -- Apple first and foremost has to protect its current users and keep its third-party developers on board. And I think that completely ditching the Finder might be a bad mistake in this regard. --Chris -- Christopher Wood cwood41@maine.maine.edu D'ohh! <-- in the manner of Homer Simpson
From: togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:12:53 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32d13df1.15751259@news.sover.net> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> <5apps0$p4u@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) wrote: >In article <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) wrote: >>lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: >> >>>Robert Iacullo writes: >>>: jmiller wrote: >>>: > >>>: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: >>>: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) >>>: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? >> >>>: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. >> >>> Where can I buy one? >>> Cheers.. >> >>Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: >>"We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand >>megahertz or a gigahertz." >>(http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) >> >>By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest >>mainframe/any cpu? >> > > how big is the cache on this 1000mhz PPC? And how fast is the memory > system of current system... For many things today its not the CPU that > the problem, but the memory speed. > > Stephan > And that really is the point. The Exponential stuff is worthless without cache that can keep up and there is none at a reasonable price. Eventually, the data needs to got to main RAM - same problem. All this is so much fodder for the clueless types who equate CPU clock rates OR types to system speed.
From: tgritton@sprynet.com (Terry Gritton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 09:58:56 -0800 Organization: ^self -> (CompSci/MolBiol) Message-ID: <tgritton-ya023180000601970958560001@news.sprynet.com> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <tgritton-ya023180000401970835510001@news.sprynet.com> <5apflt$r0d@duke.squonk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5apflt$r0d@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: >tgritton@sprynet.com (Terry Gritton) wrote: >> Again see PopupFolder, takes up less window realestate than File >> Viewer with no 'window heck'. Combined with the ability to see >> 'up' the directory path by pressing on the Finder window title >> ( Now utilities option I believe) and drilling 'down' via >> PopupFolder gives you better functionality now on the Mac. File >> Viewer will be a step backwards. > >It is somewhat different. It isn't even all that much different. >It's a bit much to think of this as "a step backwards". It's >just different. I haven't used File Viewer yet but it looks to me to be a slower to navigate cascaded hierarchical menu turned 90 degrees. So I only mean 'step backwards' in the sense that I can more rapidly navigate a cascaded hierarchical menu than the File Viewer browser. Pressing and dragging thru the hierarchical menu is faster for me than a series of clicks in successive panes and then also needing to scroll the pane view. >Note that PopupFolder is not part of the MacOS system. It >changes the *default* interface (the one Apple ships with) >to one that some people prefer. I bought it. I like it. >I think it shows that the Finder interface, as shipped from >Apple, just might maybe be *improved* by a few modest changes. As this discussion illustrates perferences differ. Mac users have always been able to get nice GUI addons to suite their preferred working habits. Has this been true for Next users? Are there nice addons in the NeXT environment for navigating and representing ones content space? ( on Mac side see <ftp://mirrors.aol.com//pub/info-mac/gui/> ) -- -- Terry Gritton "Glycobiology - the new frontier of biosemiotics" tgritton@sprynet.com
From: "Ishir Bhan" <ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 6 Jan 97 13:24:00 -0500 Organization: Harvard University University Information Systems Message-ID: <AEF6AD74-EA77DC@134.174.152.63> References: <5aqbt5$h0e@white.koehntopp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://oitnews.harvard.edu/comp.sys.next.misc On Mon, Jan 6, 1997 3:08 AM, Kristian Khntopp <mailto:KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> wrote: >Desktop printers are a shorthand macro for "Fire up the default >application for this document and select its Print command." >The macro may even select a printer in the print dialog >depending on the desktop printers name. But desktop printers are also useful for monitoring the status of a print job. Since the icon changes to reflect the printing status. You can also double click on a printer icon to see what the printer is doing. How does NeXTSTEP monitor printing now? Since most people only print to one printer (at least one printer at a time), I think this could be easily solved by having a printer.app which showed the status of printing in it's icons. Double clicking it could bring up a list of all print jobs and their status, listed by printer. -- Ishir Bhan (ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu) Harvard Medical School, Class of '00 http://www.digitas.harvard.edu/~ibhan
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 18:47:45 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5arhch$79b@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> On 01/04/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > Trouble is, GX solves a great number of real problems that both Mac users > and developers have been moaning about for years. It offers a powerful, > customizable next-generation architecture that the Mac desperately needs. > > For instance, it seems hardly a week goes by without somebody asking, on > some newsgroup I frequent, how they can print just the even or odd pages > from a document, so they can get double-sided output on a single-sided > printer. This is the kind of feature that logically belongs in-between the > printer driver and the application, since it is useful across different > printer drivers and across different applications. GX provides the concept > of "printing extensions" that allow third-party add-ons to supply this > sort of feature in a clean, well-behaved way. Like my Duplex Helper > Umm, as I've pointed out elsewhere, an application to do just this for PostScript documents was developed by Gideon Tearle back in 1992; Henry McGilton has posted in the advocacy groups to explain why incorporating sme of this functionality into the Print Panel might not be a good idea. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: cgonderz@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Christopher Gonderzik) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: GNU Emacs 19.34 on HP 700/60 PA-RISC Date: 6 Jan 1997 18:46:44 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Message-ID: <5arhak$ote@uwm.edu> Hello all, I have been having trouble trying to compile emacs 19.34 on my HP 700 series 60 running NS 3.3. According to the README's there should be a machine config in the ./etc/MACHINES file. I looked and found: HP 9000 series 700 or 800 (Spectrum) (hppa1.0-hp-hpux or hppa1.1-hp-hpux or ...hpux9shr, or ...-nextstep) I assume that this means set up the configuration program to run as follows: ./configure hppa1.0-hp-nextstep However, doing this produces: loading cache ./config.cache checking host system type... hppa1.0-hp-nextstep configure: error: Emacs hasn't been ported to `hppa1.0-hp-nextstep' systems. Check `etc/MACHINES' for recognized configuration names. Hmmm. I MUST be missing something here. Any help? -Chris.
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 6 Jan 1997 18:40:50 GMT Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <5argvi$84s@majipoor.cygnus.com> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> Cc: cwood41@maine.maine.edu In <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> Christopher Wood wrote: > In article <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de>, > uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) wrote: > > > cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > > > I like NEXTSTEP's desktop with the floating > > > menu strips and the dock. But I really would like to be able to deal with > > > files with the Finder metaphor > > > > Could you shortly explain to NEXTSTEP users what this special "Finder > > metaphor" is about? I've alway thought it is what NEXTSTEP delivers in the > > "Icon view" setting of WorkspaceManager, so I don't understand what this > > discussion is all about. (Unfortunately, there's no "Introduction to Apple > > for NEXTSTEP users" floating around on the net ;-) ) > > By 'Finder metaphor' I meant the way the Finder displays each level of the > file hierarchy in a separate window. I haven't had the opportunity to use > NEXTSTEP, and I'm assuming that the File Viewer doesn't do this. If it in > fact does, then I owe an apology & need to wipe the egg off my face... > <grin> > Your assumption is partially correct. You could get it to open a new window with each level of the file system hierarchy, but that is not the default behavior, nor can you make it the default behavior. What you do is: 1) single click on the folder you want to open 2) comman-shift-o (the "file" menu item "Open as Folder") I think it should be an option to do it either way ("open folders in new window automagically" or "open folders in current window"). This is one of the few Win95isms I actually like (the otherone I'd like to see in Nextstep is that the iconify button not be a generic icon/window frame miniaturized, but the actual icon miniaturized), and wouldn't mind seeing show up in Nextstep. -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com (ex- kzin@email.sjsu.edu) =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Spammers: I charge you for my time, disk, and bandwidth if you post off- topic solicitations for money in the groups I read. $500/post/group.
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 6 Jan 1997 19:16:35 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> In article <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com>, dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > No one is going to throw out Windows for MacStep simply because it has > a prettier interface, or is "original". > ------ > John De Hoog > dehoog@super.zippo.com No. They will only throw out Windows for MacStep if- Windows doesn't work as advertised and they figure this out MacStep works and also becomes available on PC hardware MacStep makes Unix server functionality available at no added cost I don't see where the prettiness of the interface enters into it at all ;) Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: pfd@ziplink.net (Peter Davis) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 20:18:08 GMT Organization: ZipLink -- America's Hottest ISP Message-ID: <slrn5d2ng1.f03.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 22:16:47 +1300, Lawrence DčOliveiro <ldo@waikato.ac.nz> wrote: > In article <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com>, > marke@nwlink.com (Mark Eaton) wrote: > > >In article <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > >rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > >> > >> No it's not. If you use one of DPS' calls that isn't in Postscript, then > >> it won't print. The question is will the DPS3 engine support transparency > >> while printing to PSLevel2 printers. > > > >You can't have it both ways. DPS and GX both have features not found in PS > >level 2. No, the extra features won't print from DPS, neither will they > >from GX. > > They do from GX. That's the beauty of GX--that it includes a > next-generation printing architecture that handles the headaches of > generating good PostScript to give a faithful WYSIWYG representation of > your graphics, taking care of things like Level 2 and Level 1 > compatibility, splitting of complex paths, font subsetting, managing > printer memory and so on, so you don't have to! I wonder if Mr. D'Oliveiro is capable of describing GX without resorting to the phrase "next-generation printing architecture." Really this is meaningless rhetoric, and contributes nothing to the discussion. > >The point is, do you work in one imaging model and output to > >another, or work and output in the same imaging model? > > The trouble with PostScript is, it's not just the imaging model, it's all > the programming-language baggage that goes with it. Consider what happens > when someone gives you a Level 2 PostScript file, but all you've got is a > Level 1 PostScript printer to print it on. Identical imaging model, right? > But can you print it? Not a hope. You can if the file has been coded in such a way as to fallback gracefully. Obviously it's possible to create bad PostScript files, just as it's possible to create bad GX output. If it seems more common in PostScript, it's only because of the 10-to-1 or higher ratio of users. > That's why QuickDraw GX lets you take a step backwards from all this > nonsense, so you can create high-quality graphics without having to worry > about the limitations of PostScript. So you're saying that the inclusion in PostScript of a powerful, flexible programming language is a limitation? That's a very unusual perspective. I guess all the people who write PostScript procedures to do innovative rendering techniques, or to manipulate the graphics for particular applications are really bemoaning this limitation. -- Peter Davis http://www.ziplink.net/~pfd "Standardization is the opposite of innovation."
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 20:48:32 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5arof0$b0o@news.digifix.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> On 01/05/97, Chris Murphy wrote: >In article <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott >Anguish) wrote: > > >> If you think that she is so dedicated to GX, why didn't she just say >>'GX is our graphics engine of choice'. There is little to lose as far as >>the NeXT people go, why would she care if she looses them. >> >> Do you think that Ms Hancock is so stupid as to answer a question >>such as that without having 30 people ready to back her up on what she says? >> >> She'll have to present a unified front amongst her people. Mixed >>signals from Apple about this would be damaging. >> >> >> >> DPS will be in the product. Expect GX to follow and for them both >>to eventually be on equal terms. > > >You contradict yourself on a regular basis. No, you're having trouble understanding. >You say DPS will be in the >product contradicting Hancock who hasn't even said. She only said that >they will have to work that out. How can I contradict something that hasn't been said by someone? >This means they probably don't have time >to remove DPS right now, but will do it eventually, just like they will >toss out remaining the remaining "Unixness" of OpenStep. No, you need to re-read what has been attributed to Ms. Hancock. She said that NeXT has done a good job of hiding the Unix underpinnings and that they will continue that job. >DPS cannot >emulate GX. GX can emulate DPS. I suspect that they will work a DPS >engine (similar to the existince PS engine) into GX and run GX as the main >API. But it really comes down to Apple engineers and NeXT engineers as >they know best. > DPS doesn't need to emulate GX. >However, I doubt you will see DPS running along with GX as equals. It's >one or the other. That is just so thick its rediculous. If this is the case, Apple is throwing away OpenStep's current cross-platform compatbility. That would be stupid. They'll never get Sun to reproduce GX on Solaris. They'd be pretty unlikely to submit GX to a standards body as OpenStep has been. Read what Apple has written it has lots of clues... Proof of a New Open Apple. http://live.apple.com/next/961220.pr.rel.points.html Embracing outside technology and __cross-platform industry standards__, Apple believes it can innovate in the key areas that give its products and technology differentiation. NeXT's cross-platform development environments in the enterprise and Internet/intranet space __allow developers to write once and deploy across a range of Internet and client-server platforms__. With Apple driving alliances in the Internet/intranet space, Apple technology will contribute to the further development of the information industry. Why does it have to be one way or the other for you people? -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: Frank <chu@ipoline.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 17:18:07 -0500 Organization: InterPacific Online Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: eagle@serv.net Robert Iacullo wrote: > > jmiller wrote: > > > > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: > > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) > > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > > They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > -- > > Robert S Iacullo > President-Amiga Users Society Eastside > eagle@serv.net http://www.serv.net/~eagle > TeamAMIGA Mhz means nothing! Even my US.Robotics modem's DSP chip runs at 90mhz and some specialized DSPs run at several times more than that, but can they run my computer?!?! The Exponential PPC chip has only about 1 million transistor count and that is about the same amount of a 486!!! How can you expect it to out run a lowly Pentium 133 with 3 million transistors!!! Plus, a fully configured Pentium200 can be had for under $1500, can you get the same price/performance with a >180mhz< 604e PPC chip computer?! Which costs at least 3 times that amount! Talking about REAL performance, Alpha chip now already runs at 533mhz and out run PPC chip EVEN at the same clock. MY POINT IS STILL THE SAME: "Power" PC chips can eat shit
From: exfjnzl@rbf.apfh.rqh (Ravi K. Swamy) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: NeXT/Apple - the gaming connection Date: 2 Jan 1997 20:57:49 GMT Organization: Gunsmith Cats Distribution: inet Message-ID: <slrn5co8ad.cin.exfjnzl@c01021-111poe.eos.ncsu.edu> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <rickeym-2112960024540001@10.0.2.15> <32bc1ce3.1530537@snews2.zippo.com> <01bbf053$9ee3c660$ea4fb7ce@interaccess> <jinx6568-2312960111120001@news.sover.net> <slrn5btng2.18n.jgoerzen@complete.org> <32BF77BC.1278@datadepot.com> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <59smld$bv5@duke.squonk.net> <59tbt5$6md@news.ycc.yale.edu> <59udsj$1ms@duke.squonk.net> In article <59udsj$1ms@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn wrote: >abergman@pantheon.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) wrote: >> Garance A Drosehn (gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu) wrote: >> : >> : What was the game done by Trilobyte? Was that _Myst_? >> >> Dunno. Myst was done using Hypercard (roughly) on a Mac, however. > >Well, I didn't think it was _Myst_, but I don't know enough about >the gaming-world to remember what games were developed on NeXTSTEP. >I only remember Doom because the guys in the CS department used to >play it on Friday nights (now they play Quake instead, but I doubt >that was developed on NeXTSTEP). After Doom and Quake, the only Parts of Quake were written on NeXTSTEP. I don't know how much, but look at ftp.cdrom.com /.5/idgames/idstuff/quake/qe_dev.gif for a picture of their NeXTSTEP based level editor. >In case people are wondering, these games were not developed using >any NeXTSTEP-specific API's. As I understand it, the companies >just liked NeXTSTEP because the machine didn't crash when they >tripped over bugs during the development phase. I imagine both >games were developed using C++ or perhaps straight C. John Romero, one of the main guys at id software used to have a .plan file that said "To get the entire world running NeXTSTEP" so I think he liked it for more reasons other than that it was stable. Ravi -- Ravi K. Swamy http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rkswamy/www/ rkswamy at eos.ncsu.edu root@genom.com
From: Michael Taylor <mtaylor@aw.sgi.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 19:19:06 -0500 Organization: Alias|Wavefront Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin Palmer wrote: > > Jeff Dallacqua wrote: > > > > On 28 Dec 1996 06:53:37 GMT, andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com > > wrote: > > > > >For those who don't know, Trilobyte used NeXTstep to create 7th Guest > > >and 11th Hour. Id used NeXTstep to create Doom and Quake. > > > > Weren't the video sequences for 7th Guest(and maybe 11th Hour) > > done with 3DStudio(although I guess this doesn't necessarily mean > > they didn't use NeXTstep for any of it)? > > -- I am almost positive that the images on 7th guest were done in > Alias|Wavefront Power Animator on the SGI. It was a while back when I > read the article. I'm sure that 7th guest was made with 3DStudio. I'm not sure about 11th Hour though. This is the first I've heard of 7th Guest having anything to do with NEXTSTEP. Not that I'm an expert on the subject. Quake on the other hand was definately developed using both NEXTSTEP and Power Animator (on SGI's). I've got a screen capture of a NeXT desktop of a Quake developer from Id Software somewhere. Here it is. To see the level editor under NEXTSTEP try: ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake/qe_dev.gif /\/\ike Dislaimer: My opinions are my own, yada yada -- /\/\ike Taylor | Mail: mtaylor@aw.sgi.com Alias|Wavefront Toronto | Voice: (416) 362-8558 x8740 Developer, API Team =D--' http://reality.sgi.com/mtaylor
From: darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com (Darin Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 7 Jan 1997 00:22:28 GMT Message-ID: <slrn5d35q1.5bc.darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> >Mhz means nothing! Even my US.Robotics modem's DSP chip runs at 90mhz >and some specialized DSPs run at several times more than that, but can >they run my computer?!?! The Exponential PPC chip has only about 1 >million transistor count and that is about the same amount of a 486!!! >How can you expect it to out run a lowly Pentium 133 with 3 million >transistors!!! Um, while you're right that Mhz is a meaningless statistic, so is number of transistors. The only way to compare cpu's is with meaningful benchmarks (and there are plenty of meaningless ones to stay away from as well). Next someone will start talking about color... >MY POINT IS STILL THE SAME: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Our point is still the same, this is a stupid argument that does nothing but show the world that you don't care to think about things too hard. "Can eat shit" may win arguments on the playground, but in all honesty, I've won more arguments with "is too/is not" repetitions. Big deal, I'm happy with my 486, nice and speedy. -- Darin Johnson darin@connectnet.com
From: rraman@site.gmu.edu (Ravishankar Ramanathan (CSI)) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: WTB: NEXTSTEP 3.3 Academic Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:35:06 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA Message-ID: <5aoooa$ls7@portal.gmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am looking for a copy of the NEXTSTEP OS/DEV Academic for NeXT black hardware. Please e-mail me with pricing info (incl. FedEx 2 day shipping.) Thanks -Ravi
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 7 Jan 1997 00:30:04 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5as5ec$361@duke.squonk.net> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) wrote: > > > cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) wrote: > > > I like NEXTSTEP's desktop with the floating menu strips and > > > the dock. But I really would like to be able to deal with > > > files with the Finder metaphor > > > > Could you shortly explain to NEXTSTEP users what this special > > "Finder metaphor" is about? > > By 'Finder metaphor' I meant the way the Finder displays each > level of the file hierarchy in a separate window. I haven't had > the opportunity to use NEXTSTEP, and I'm assuming that the File > Viewer doesn't do this. If it in fact does, then I owe an apology > & need to wipe the egg off my face... <grin> For a *similar* effect, you can hold down the option key when double-clicking on a folder icon in the current path (apologies, I am probably using the wrong term there. The section of the File Viewer directly below the shelf-part). Note that this does *not* work when double-clicking on a folder icon in the browser (or icon views) themselves. Thus, it's not quite the same thing. > But whether the Finder is more intuitive or not, there's a bigger > issue -- Apple needs to make this OS feel like an evolutionary > step up from the current MacOS (a big evolutionary step, but an > evolutionary step nonetheless). Some days I agree with this, and other days I wonder about it. Why does this new system, which Apple just paid $400 million for, *have* to look like some sort of mere evolutionary step? I can always agree that they must have a system with a similar look-and-feel and a similar attention to details, but they might benefit if the interface did look a little different. Users might be underwhelmed if they end up with a system that looks exactly the same, after all the hoopla about this being a dramatic new system for Apple. In any case, I suspect that what we see will be close enough to the MacOS for long-time mac users to be comfortable with it. I just wonder if it'd be better to have something more dramatic to show for $400 million. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 01:07:59 -0500 Organization: Central Nervous System Distribution: inet Message-ID: <nervous-0601970107590001@ascend25.netrover.com> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> In article <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no>, lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: Robert Iacullo writes: : jmiller wrote: : > : > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: : > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) : > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? : They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. Where can I buy one? Cheers... Go to http://www.exp.com and place your order. They will be demonstrating the X704 at MacWorld. Or, if you can't get one yet, you can always go for a quad-604e @ 200Mhz UMAX system. (That's four 604e each @ 200Mhz.) What was your Intel at? 200Mhz? Hahahaha... -- GO Mac GO!!!
From: alvin@cse.ucsc.edu (Alvin Jee) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: W95 printer driver for Next P.S. Laser printer sharing Date: 7 Jan 1997 00:51:41 GMT Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE Message-ID: <5as6mt$3uk@darkstar.ucsc.edu> References: <32d161eb.3341100@news.hamburg.pop.de> In article <32d161eb.3341100@news.hamburg.pop.de>, David Binette <dbin@sce.de> wrote: >Anybody know what the correct printer driver is? [snip] >I'm wondering if there is a more appropriate printer driver. Take a look at Adobe's WWW site. http://www.adobe.com. Sorry, I don't have the actual pointer for you. >Just what *IS* the NeXT PostScript printer. The printer is basically just the imager. Bitmaps are dumped to the printer from the main CPU. This has the advantage that both the display and printer (if they are on the same machine) use the same Postscript rendering engine. As close to WYSIWYG as you can get. I must add that the NeXT Laser Printer (NLP) has the best paper-handling/image matching combination I've ever seen. If you want a vertical line 1.5" from the edge of the paper, you get a line that is 1.5" away from the edge of the paper. This makes printing labels much less wasteful. I had to print "return address" labels on the tiny 5/8" x 1 3/4" Avery labels. I tried about three different (non-NeXT) laser printers. Only the NLP was able to print a full page and have _every_ label come out right. All the other printers were off enough to make the labels spill over the edges onto neighboring labels. With the NLP, "it just works". The paper output really matches what the drawing program wanted to spit out. It never ceases to amaze me what NeXT was able to pull off. I hope Apple doesn't undo all their efforts. -- Alvin Jee alvin@neander.com http://www.neander.com NeXTMail gleefully accepted!
From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 13:06:31 +1200 Organization: School of Music, University of Auckland Message-ID: <p.kerr-0701971306310001@news.auckland.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <kindall-0501971914120001@ppp.manual.com> kindall@manual.com (Jerry Kindall) wrote: > Since QDGX already exists and is native PowerPC code, and DPS already > exists as part of the NeXTstep OS which is being ported to the Mac, why > CAN'T we (at least in the long run) have both? Cheez, a choice? How do I decide which one to use? or is it automagic so I don't need to know, or care... ;-) -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: R/E The NeXT Story Date: 6 Jan 1997 16:26:20 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5ar93c$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <32CD9C97.643F@cfmo.com> <32D09EA9.5E96@transport.com> Gary Driggs <garyd@transport.com> wrote: > The only one I've found > interesting to read at any length is Randall E. Stross's 'Steve Jobs and > the NeXT Big Thing.' I'm curious if anyone out there has feedback on > this title. It was written during the period that Sun and NeXT were squabbling over competitive issues (which development environment is better, etc.). This became pretty heated and personal between Jobs and McNealy who have since mended fences. Much of the dirt in the book apparently came from within Sun, so it probably should be read with a grain of salt. By the time the book was actually published, Sun had just licensed OpenStep from NeXT so much of the book's contents seemed suspicious for those familiar with the situation, but most readers probably weren't aware. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 16:47:44 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: > just like they will > toss out remaining the remaining "Unixness" of OpenStep. I keep seeing repeated references like the above which is a really foolish notion. Unix is, by far, the richest development and user environment around. Developers using OpenStep don't have to deal with Unix or any underlying operating system for almost all of the functionality a typical app needs. But porting OpenStep using existing Unix system and C library functions is a BIG WIN. Porting OpenStep without this underlying support, as was the case with Windows NT, is a much bigger job with the probability of a buggier implementation greater because much more functionality must be implemented instead of using the proven, stable utilities provided by Unix. When we began moving to NT from NEXTSTEP, we were shocked by the lack of nice, convenient tools under NT. Much of what we took for granted under Unix is missing from NT and must be purchased from 3rd-party vendors. Most users don't have to know about these utilities, but power users certainly appreciate them. I would certainly hate to lose this rich environment. What Apple needs to do is to better cover up Unix system administration, some of which must still be done using a command-line interface under OPENSTEP/Mach. But please don't toss Unix out. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: ebriosus@aol.com (Ebriosus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 7 Jan 1997 02:41:33 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19970107023900.VAA16192@ladder01.news.aol.com> References: <AEF6AD74-EA77DC@134.174.152.63> I am a Mac user who works at a company which was an early adopter of NeXT computers, and as such, I don't know what was included with the OS (I have 3.3 on my NeXTstation) and what was custom made. We have an app called (if I remember exactly) Printer Queue. As far as I can tell, it gives all or most of the functionality of the Queue feature of the MacOS desktop printer: I can stop jobs, duplicate jobs, move jobs to other printers. Each assistant has his or her own printer; the queue is not limited to my local printer. Is this the same as the desktop printer? I have never used that feature on my Mac for anything beyond my local printer, but I would guess so. The only added bonus that I can see is that the dekstop icon would be very visual and fairly quick to shove icons into to print; since apps seem to launch faster on my NeXT than my Mac (I assume that this is due to the object nature of NeXT apps), I have no problem with double clicking and immediately issuing a print command. Russell Ahrens
From: Stephen Kreutzer <kreutzer@pipeline.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: getting on web NeXT style Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 23:24:20 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <32D1C1E1.1A3B@pipeline.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to access the web from my nextcube in addition to my present access via my mac. Can anybody reccommend a path to get there: - The best (inexpensive) modem ? - Software (Omniweb vs. Netsurfer) - How difficult it is to set up PPP ? - Other software I might need - Sources for information on how to set up. I am running NS3.2 on a Next cube. I use the Next for its great graphics etc. and am not literate in unix etc. Thanks for the guidance ..... Stephen Kreutzer kreutzer@pipeline.com
From: George Graves <gmgraves@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 18:52:47 +0000 Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D149F8.6070@earthlink.net> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> <5apps0$p4u@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <32d13df1.15751259@news.sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lance Togar wrote: > > t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) wrote: > > >In article <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) wrote: > >>lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: > >> > >>>Robert Iacullo writes: > >>>: jmiller wrote: > >>>: > > >>>: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: > >>>: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) > >>>: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > >> > >>>: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > >> > >>> Where can I buy one? > >>> Cheers.. > >> > >>Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: > >>"We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand > >>megahertz or a gigahertz." > >>(http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) > >> > >>By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest > >>mainframe/any cpu? > >> > > > > how big is the cache on this 1000mhz PPC? And how fast is the memory > > system of current system... For many things today its not the CPU that > > the problem, but the memory speed. > > > > Stephan > > > And that really is the point. The Exponential stuff is worthless > without cache that can keep up and there is none at a reasonable > price. Eventually, the data needs to got to main RAM - same problem. > All this is so much fodder for the clueless types who equate CPU > clock rates OR types to system speed. True, but there are ways around this problem, ask Silicon Graphics with their new "O2" machines. George Graves
From: Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:47:50 GMT Organization: MiCMAC Sender: news@micmac.com Message-ID: <E3L7Jq.Lq@micmac.com> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> Cc: ccintron@gte.net In <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> "CesÆr M. Cintron" wrote: > Here's two examples of how way off-target NextStep is/was: > > - OK, it has DisplayPostscript like SGIs do, but in order to customize > your desktop (i.e., add new menus), you actually had to WRITE POSTSCRIPT > CODE! SGI dropped that way of doing things years ago, as did Sun. > Ah Ah Ah!!!!!!!!! You really believe anything!!!!! Tell your "friend" he's a butthead!!! -- mc Michel Coste <mailto:mic@micmac.com> MiCMAC - Online Publishing < http://www.micmac.com>
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 6 Jan 1997 06:57:26 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0501972357290001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com> In article <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: > You forget that there is another road here that Developers should be >considering. OpenStep is crossplatform NOW on Mach, Solaris and NT, soon to >be an Apple OS. If the DPS functionality was ripped from the Apple product, >Apple looses its cross-platform advantages which it just got. DPS is part >of the OpenStep spec. And if OpenStep/Mach is so easy to port, then the new Mac OS (and it *is* the new *MAC* OS...not the new NeXT OS) should be equally easy to port. You are asking a whole bunch of Apple users to re-write applications for DPS. It's a lot easier for the VERY small numbers of NeXT application to need re-writing to work with GX. And keep in mind Apple BOUGHT NeXT. They did NOT buy NextStep, or OpenStep. They bought the company. They can do whatever they want with this operating system, and if that means gutting it in order to BORG the best of the current Mac OS and OpenStep to make the next Mac OS (I keep saying that...it *is* the Mac OS, not just a NeXT port to work on a PowerMac) kick ass, then that's what needs to be done. >>If DPS is to replace Quickdraw, then NONE of the current Mac applications >>are going to work, and a whole new crop of printer drivers will need to be >>written. > > Wha? None of the Mac applications are going to run anyways until >some emulation is written. What is native to the new OS is hardly relevant. Wrong. We are talking about a lot of re-writing of current applications for the NEW operating system which otherwise could look for QX instead of DPS. I'm not talking about System 7 applications. I'm talking about PhotoShop for MacOS 8. The current few DTP and graphic design applications dependant on GX are in my opinion (and those who use them) superior to Adobe and Quark's PS print engines built into their own application to do an end run around the operating system. I believe the first thing will be OpenStep for PowerMac with modifications. But Mac OS 8 will have removed all remaining Unix from OpenStep, and I believe they will stick GX in their along with other API's like QTML and QuickDraw 3D. > The printer drivers arguement is rather bogus. How difficult is it >to take a pre-rendered bitmap of the page and spew it to a printer. Right, now difficult? How many PostScript interpreters are there out there for under $300? Not that many. I believe there is one for around $150 or so for the Stylewriters. Only one other I can think of that works with the Hewlett Packard printers, and it has problems. These interpreters are big too. They take up a healthy chunk of RAM. > It sure won't be hard to get it working on Postscript printers. Well of course not. The problem is with the 90% of printers used by Mac users that aren't PostScript printers. > Apple has also said that compatibility is not likely in the first >incarnation. Apple also has admited that compatibility is what killed the >Copland. If they don't ship a working emulator with the next release, then they will have WORSE compatibility problems than Microsoft has done with their move from Windows 3.1 to Windows NT. Windows95 runs 3.1 apps, and 97 runs 3.1 apps, and NT runs 3.1 and 95 apps. It came WITH the package. If Apple doesn't do this, they are asking for problems. > Apple has spent millions and millions of dollars on many >technologies that haven't been widely accepted or have been abandoned as >failures or near failures. Copland, Pink, Taligent, Newton (not the success >that it was to be), Pippin (oh, sorry thats _next years_ failure). > > Apple didn't spend millions and millions on NeXT to just stick it on >the shelf. How easily you contradict yourself - and almost in the same paragraph. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 6 Jan 1997 23:13:43 GMT Organization: "He wants to fight the dragon, he wants to kill the beast." Message-ID: <5as0v7$k6a@white.koehntopp.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <tgritton-ya023180000401970835510001@news.sprynet.com> <5apflt$r0d@duke.squonk.net> <tgritton-ya023180000601970958560001@news.sprynet.com> tgritton@sprynet.com (Terry Gritton) writes: >As this discussion illustrates perferences differ. Mac users have always >been able to get nice GUI addons to suite their preferred working habits. >Has this been true for Next users? Are there nice addons in the NeXT >environment for navigating and representing ones content space? ( on Mac >side see <ftp://mirrors.aol.com//pub/info-mac/gui/> ) No, of course not. The Nextstep GUI is completely cast in stone and may not be altered in any way under the threat of severe punishment. Next has indeed special hit teams out there brutally squashing any attempt to liberate Nextstep users from this severe restriction and they do very bloody, but effective work. I'm sorry to inform you of this fact, which is partly responsible for the non-success of Nextstep, but hey: There has to be a price being paid for using a product designed by a GUI god like Steve! And I can tell you that it's worth it! Soon you will be converted into a true follower just like us Next folks. Now, please change the topic. We Next users are a bit sensitive in this area. Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "<laura> Das muss ich nicht pollen, das angel ich mir aus dem spool." -- Beruehmte letzte Worte.
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 6 Jan 1997 23:17:18 GMT Organization: "He wants to fight the dragon, he wants to kill the beast." Message-ID: <5as15u$k6l@white.koehntopp.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) writes: >By 'Finder metaphor' I meant the way the Finder displays each level of the >file hierarchy in a separate window. I haven't had the opportunity to use >NEXTSTEP, and I'm assuming that the File Viewer doesn't do this. If it in >fact does, then I owe an apology & need to wipe the egg off my face... ><grin> Nextstep's file manager navigates directories without opening new windows unless you request it (by selecting a directory and pressing Cmd-O or selecting File->Open as folder). >nonetheless). Unfortunately, superior technology and superior design don't >by themselves sell computers or OSes -- Apple first and foremost has to >protect its current users and keep its third-party developers on board. And >I think that completely ditching the Finder might be a bad mistake in this >regard. Start->Execute... WINFILE.EXE. No problem. :-) Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "<laura> Das muss ich nicht pollen, das angel ich mir aus dem spool." -- Beruehmte letzte Worte.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:42:35 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0701971942350001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <5afitj$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-0201972152300001@shiva1-mclean-252.his.com> In article <rzeman-0201972152300001@shiva1-mclean-252.his.com>, rzeman@his.com (Rick Zeman) wrote: >And it's really nice sending complex Postscript jobs to the printer. I've >never seen it gag because it didn't have enough memory as QuickDraw GX is >smart enough to just download the glyphs that are used instead of the >entire font. I seem to recall a posting on the GX user mailing list (it wasn't you, was it Rick?) from somebody who was beta-testing some fonts. All he had was an ancient LaserWriter Plus (with a gigantic 2MB of RAM! Remember them?), and when he tried to print 2-3 font samples per page, using the (Adobe-developed) LaserWriter 8 driver, he had no success at all. So then he tried QuickDraw GX, with all its font-subsetting and other memory-management smarts (no, I don't think the application that was printing the samples actually knew anything about GX). And it worked! Next-generation printing architecture meets antediluvian printing hardware, and the result is success! For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DPS does GX (LARGE, 2 attachments) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:50:19 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0701971950190001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <ldo-3012961239120001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a79oi$ch6@news3.digex.net> <5a88d0$fe1$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> <ldo-0101970625280001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <p.kerr-0501971928150001@news.auckland.ac.nz> In article <p.kerr-0501971928150001@news.auckland.ac.nz>, p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote: >In article <ldo-0101970625280001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, >ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: >> Last time I looked at the standard PostScript Level 2 specification, there >> was *no* option that I could find for selecting the rule for deciding how >> much of a pixel a shape had to cross before the pixel was filled. Perhaps >> you would care to point out what I've been missing, or how you can >> implement a procedure in standard PostScript that solves such a >> resolution-dependent problem in a resolution-independent way? > >Why would we need to do that? >If the problem is resolution-dependent, then it's device-dependent, >and the device's rip deals with it in its own way. No it doesn't. The PostScript specification states that, if any part of a filled shape crosses the area of a pixel, then the pixel is filled. This is the way ALL PostScript (and PDF, and Bravo) rasterizers work. Thus, at lower resolutions, you can see the odd effect that I demonstrate in those example files (the URLs are <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/GXLogo.PDF> and <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/SixRectangles.PDF>, for those who missed them previously). Conversely, QuickDraw GX specifies that a pixel is only filled if the shape overlaps its centre. This avoids the resolution-dependent misalignment problem, though its drawback is that very thin shapes can completely disappear. But there is a technique for working around this in at least some situations--whereas there is no workaround for the PostScript problem. For more info about QuickDraw GX, the next-generation graphics/printing architecture with a high-quality, *fully-editable* graphics interchange format, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: "Eddie Cejvan" <cejvane@post.crc.cra.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 7 Jan 1997 17:46:49 GMT Organization: CRA Distribution: inet Message-ID: <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> Frank <chu@ipoline.com> wrote in article <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com>... >The Exponential PPC chip has only about 1 > million transistor count and that is about the same amount of a 486!!! > How can you expect it to out run a lowly Pentium 133 with 3 million > transistors!!! Plus, a fully configured Pentium200 can be had for under > $1500, can you get the same price/performance with a >180mhz< 604e PPC > chip computer?! Which costs at least 3 times that amount! > > MY POINT IS STILL THE SAME: "Power" PC chips can eat shit > My suggestion is that you do some reading on the subject before you reply to Newsgroup posts. My mother used to say: "Better to be quiet and have people suspect your idiocy then to open your mouth a remove their doubt." If you can get your hands on BYTE November 1996 you might understand (depending on your IQ) the differences between CISC and RISC CPUs. Stated within is that a 603e running at 200MHz will outperform a Pentium Pro at the same speed. I will leave you with this thought: Reduced Instruction Set = Less Transistors = Lower Cost. You've just been shut up by Eddie Cejvan
From: Ian Russell Ollmann <iano@scripps.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 23:48:15 -0800 Organization: The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970106233858.26441E-100000@wong> References: <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To: Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com> In-Reply-To: <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Terry Wilcox wrote: > Rapid Remedies wrote: > > Apple did not spend millions and millions of dollars on Quickdraw GX after > > looking at DPS to just end up using DPS. They can be short sighted > > (frequently), but not suicidal. There is no way that DPS has a future in > > the next Mac OS. > I'm actually kind of impressed by this statement. It sums up the Mac > user sentiment so concisely. > From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: > Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. > Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. > Apple didn't buy NeXT for the interface, it'll use the Mac interface. > Does anybody see a trend here? It would seem that Apple bought NeXT so > it could ship Copland. Well, if it's going to ship Copland, why buy > NeXT? Why consider buying Be? > Conversely, Apple did not spend hundreds of millions of dollars on NeXT > after failing with Copland, just to use Copland. Well, even at this level of cynicism, which says that they did pay $400M to replace Copland with Copland, there is still an answer -- Apple paid $400 million dollars for two reasons: 1) To thumb their nose at Gassee 2) and more importantly, they get an excuse to spend another year on Copland development. besides, they do get a more crossplatform product, an environment designed to use objective C, the enterprise oriented webobjects, Steve Jobs (bucking for Guy Kawasaki's job), a brain trust refil, those swanky NeXT coporate offices, and most of all "a strategy". (is there a Top Ten list in here somewhere?) Ian Ollmann
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:43:55 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0701972043550001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5aiflr$3ts@news3.digex.net> <32CE2D66.25B@trilithon.com> In article <32CE2D66.25B@trilithon.com>, henry@trilithon.com wrote: >John Kheit wrote: > > * ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: > * * By the way, aren't there some limitations built > * * into the size of bitmaps that Display PostScript > * * can generate, deliberately put in to prevent you > * * from using it to print PostScript on non-PostScript > * * printers? > > * Under NeXTSTEP, I don't think there is an actual limit, > * but that by software license Adobe doesn't want you to > * print over 900dpi w/o forking over more money to them > * (think 75bux?)... If I got it wrong, someone correct > * me...I sense I got something above wrong, but not sure > * if it's the fee of the DPI... >This issue of ``limitations on the size of bitmaps'' has >reached the status of urban legend by now. But it's no "legend"--it's true, right? >Notice how >Mister Lawrence ``Contextual Forms'' DčOliveiro places the >most possible negative slant on the issue --- `deliberately... >to prevent....'', as if Adobe were another Evil Empire and >Next their lackeys. It's no accident that the limitation is there. It's not some design or implementation limitation of the Display PostScript architecture, something that crept in while Adobe's clever engineers weren't looking--it's entirely a licensing restriction, being intentionally enforced in the software--and not just under NeXTStep, but in *all* Display PostScript implementations. How much more "deliberate" do you want to get...? >The 900 DPI limitation was a restriction that imagesetter >manufacturers like Linotype-Hell insisted on. If the >restriction were not there, then instead of spending >$100,000 on a high-end imagesetter, you'd rather spend >a few thousand on a Pentium-class box and run NextStep. And you don't see a problem with this? You think this is the best deal for customers--for their own good, perhaps? Somehow the phrase "PostScript spin doctor" comes to mind... For info about an un-crippled, next-generation graphics/printing architecture that gets you out of PostScript jail, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:55:43 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net> In article <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: >ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: >> The trouble with PostScript is, it's not just the imaging model, >> it's all the programming-language baggage that goes with it. >> Consider what happens when someone gives you a Level 2 PostScript >> file, but all you've got is a Level 1 PostScript printer to print >> it on. Identical imaging model, right? But can you print it? Not >> a hope. > >Some think that's it strength. Furthermore... I've had no problems >printing from DPS Level 2 to a level 1 printer. It just works. Wow. Let me get this straight--if you have a PostScript program that creates a dictionary with a maxlength of six, and tries to put seven things into it, and send that to a Level 1 printer, then it will magically work fine, just because you've got Display PostScript on your desktop? >Also, the relatively simple composting required to get transparencies >to print have already been done in several apps, and would be >relatively easy to implement system wide... Feel free to try dashing off a few lines of PostScript code to implement the effects described at <http://www.larisoftware.com/Support/Inks.html> and <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/gx/transfermodes.html> and <http://www.info.apple.com/gx/TM/transfermode.html>. I'll expect to see an essentially complete outline of your proposed implementation in your next posting. :) >> That's why QuickDraw GX lets you take a step backwards from all >> this nonsense, so you can create high-quality graphics without >> having to worry about the limitations of PostScript. > >Sill limitations like actually printing w/o problems... The problems have been ongoing with the old QuickDraw printing architecture. Every time some major revision of a driver came out, applications would break left and right. Spend a few days on comp.sys.mac.printing, and see all the moaning about LaserWriter 8.4.x. And commiserate with the owners of HP DeskJets who would like to use the Desktop PrintMonitor kludge, but can't. Yes, the problems moving from QuickDraw to GX printing have been no better (so far) than moving between different versions of QuickDraw printing. But the expectation is that the pain will level off, simply because the GX printing architecture is so much cleaner in the way it does things. Some things do actually work better under GX than under old QuickDraw. GX can really give a new lease of life to older PostScript printers with limited RAM. For more info about the next-generation graphics and printing architecture that is QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:07:29 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0701972107290001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <rzeman-0101972041150001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101972230330001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301972140450001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5aj612$ied@bignews.shef.ac.uk> In article <5aj612$ied@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> wrote: >On 01/03/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > >> Put it in perspective: that 1MB of RAM costs US$10 or so at current >> prices. And yes, you *do* get benefits to Netscape and ClarisWorks from >> the GX printing architecture. For example, you can paste GX graphics into >> ClarisWorks documents, view them on-screen at full quality at any >> magnification, and print them on both PostScript and non-PostScript >> printers (try that with EPS graphics). >> >Umm, many people do this regularly with EPS... a whole range of >non-PostScript printers is supported by NEXTSTEP. You mean as a built-in feature of the standard OS, or as an extra-cost add-on? >> Or you could do double-sided >> printing of Web pages from Netscape. What non-GX software can you get for >> US$10 that will give you these sorts of features? >> >Umm, I can print out directly from OmniWeb and NetSurfer on NEXTSTEP for >free. Are those the only two applications? I only mentioned Netscape because that was what was specified in the posting I was replying to. You see, Netscape itself has no support for selection of odd/even page printing. Neither do any of the GX printer drivers I use. After all, such a feature would be useful regardless of which printer you might have, or which application you might be printing from. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to require every printer driver or every application to directly support it. Instead, GX supports the concept of "printing extensions", that hook into the printing process in-between the driver and the application, to customize it in a clean and well-behaved fashion. An example of such a printing extension is Duplex Helper <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/sw/index.html#DuplexHelper>, which is specifically designed to ease the job of doing double-sided printing on single-sided printers. There are others, such as Peirce Print Tools <http://www.peircesw.com>, which do N-up printing, watermarks, and other fun stuff. Remember, these products work across a range of different applications, and across a range of different printer drivers! > And if I want I can save the page to a PostScript or PDF file (can you >save directly to a PDF file using GX -- third-party products are allowed)? Funnily enough--have a look at Tumbler <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/sw/index.html#Tumbler>, which I believe is the lowest-cost tool for producing PDF files with high-quality text and graphics on *any* platform. Some samples of its output are available at <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/>. For more info about the next-generation graphics and printing architecture that makes applications like Tumbler possible, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 7 Jan 1997 08:09:24 GMT Organization: "He wants to fight the dragon, he wants to kill the beast." Message-ID: <5at0bk$mkb@white.koehntopp.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5as5ec$361@duke.squonk.net> Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> writes: >In any case, I suspect that what we see will be close enough to >the MacOS for long-time mac users to be comfortable with it. I >just wonder if it'd be better to have something more dramatic to >show for $400 million. Now, is the Win'95 look an evolutionary step from the Win 3.1 look? For me, it looks more like an evolutionary step from Nextstep, but I am not sure about the direction. Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." -- Henry Spencer
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 7 Jan 1997 07:59:38 GMT Organization: "He wants to fight the dragon, he wants to kill the beast." Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> Frank <chu@ipoline.com> writes: >Mhz means nothing! Even my US.Robotics modem's DSP chip runs at 90mhz >and some specialized DSPs run at several times more than that, but can >they run my computer?!?! The Exponential PPC chip has only about 1 >million transistor count and that is about the same amount of a 486!!! >How can you expect it to out run a lowly Pentium 133 with 3 million >transistors!!! They do it with better design. For example, PPCs do not sacrifice tons of transistors to emulate an outdated and long bygone CPU with 16 bit registers and an obsolete memory addressing model. For example, PPCs do not have to shift operands from register to register because certain instructions require their operands in certain registers. For example, PPCs do not have to access memory as often as Pentiums, because they have a decent number of general purpose registers. All this results in quite impressive performance. The highly respected german c't magazine ("c't - Magazin fuer Computertechnik, Heise publishing, Hannover") has benchmarked old Pentium processors against new MMX pentium processors using specialized, supposedly MMX friendly tasks relating with image processing. They also used special MMX optimized machine code for the MMX processors to make sure the new MMX chips run at optimal performance. Among the field of tested machines they also had a PPC based untuned Apple from the same price range as the Pentium machines tested for comparison. This PPC ran the same tests using normal machine generated native machine code. c't found that MMX can substantially improve the throughput of a Pentium for certain well optimized, very specialized applications. But the PPC was just as fast to substantially faster than the MMX for all cases tested by c't with normal, unoptimized code and without MMX extensions, which are not available for PPC yet. So the conclusion is that MMX fixes some special cases where the Pentium is broken by design, while the PPCs design is generally right. c't also found that the memory interface of the PPC machine was very unoptimized compared to the Pentium PCs tested and that quite impressive acceleration of PPCs would be possible if the PPC board had a similarly effective memory interface as the Pentium processors. This is not a matter of processor design, but addresses board designer issues instead. So another conclusion of the test was that while the PPC was outrunning the Intel machines in the test, it still was not running at full speed due to the comparatively lame memory interface. c't suggested that the PPC people also introduced MMX extensions to the PPC, but merely for marketing reasons: there is no technical need to screw up a nice, expandable and working design for some seldomly used special purpose application. Please note that these tests conducted by c't were using fixed point or integer arithmetics - things that the MMX extensions are supposedly specialized for. If the comparison had been made with FPU using applications, the Intels would have lost even higher due to their notoriously abysmal floating point performance. Please also note that Intels cannot combine MMX applications with FPU applications, because access to the FPU blocks the data path to the MMX extension hardware on the chip. This is true when switching between MMX and FPU within the same application, but it is also true when multitasking between pure MMX and pure FPU applications. The latter can become a real nightmare for schedulers of multitasking operating systems. >Talking about REAL performance, Alpha chip now already runs at 533mhz >and out run PPC chip EVEN at the same clock. The Alpha is a very nice processor, but also a severe case of trading memory for speed. Just compare code sizes of text and data segments for a statically linked GNU emacs on Linux for Intel processors, Linux for PPC and Linux for Alphas. Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." -- Henry Spencer
From: jmiller <jmiller@rogerswave.ca> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can beat shity Petium Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 04:46:52 -0400 Organization: Rogers Communications Ltd. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D20D7C.C75@rogerswave.ca> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Lasse Olsen <lolsen@hsr.no> Lasse Olsen wrote: > : They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > Where can I buy one? > Cheers... The 533Mhz isn't out yet but you can buy a 225Mhz TODAY.
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 7 Jan 1997 08:52:16 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5at2s0$7d2@news.xmission.com> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <cwood41-ya023080000601971303180001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5as5ec$361@duke.squonk.net> <5at0bk$mkb@white.koehntopp.de> KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) wrote: > Now, is the Win'95 look an evolutionary step from the Win 3.1 > look? > > For me, it looks more like an evolutionary step from Nextstep, > but I am not sure about the direction. Down. Definitely down. As a person who uses both, I assure you that Win 95 is a step down from NEXTSTEP. By the same token, Win 3.1 is a deadly chasm... -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp (John De Hoog) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 00:19:55 GMT Organization: TNI Message-ID: <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) wrote: >> No one is going to throw out Windows for MacStep simply because it has >> a prettier interface, or is "original". > No. They will only throw out Windows for MacStep if- > > Windows doesn't work as advertised and they figure this out It seems to work for most people most of the time. MacStep will have to work better. For example: better multitasking performance than is now available with Windows NT on two Pentium Pros. > MacStep works and also becomes available on PC hardware It doesn't work yet. (I agree about the need for PC hardware support.) > MacStep makes Unix server functionality available at no added cost How many millions of people need Unix server functionality? You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will get the best applications, and get them soonest? ------ John De Hoog dehoog@super.zippo.com
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 04:25:08 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <jcr.852517036@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: )Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that )GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a )vertical frame interval, isn't it? *No* Consider a realtime video editing app. You have to allocate time for reading the data from the HD, decompressing the possibly multiple streams of audio and video, apply the 2D effects and transitions, and then display. GX and DPS would be handling the latter 2 stages. If DPS takes significantly longer than GX you start to run the risk of dropping lots of frames which of course eliminates one of the most compelling features of the app. Right now such an app exists for GX in a 'Lite' form the 'Pro' version is due in June. GX transfer modes, transform, and clipping, and viewport effects are used for its realtime effects. Since no such app exists for DPS, we can not determine whether it can do real-time transparency effects fast enough to use on running video. A vertical blank for one frame is certainly *not* fast enough. Further we don't know how fast a transfer mode implementation would be if implemented in the actual Postscript code or in the Appkit. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 13:05:42 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5athn6$459@www.langen.bull.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0501972357290001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> Cc: remedies@rapidremedies.com In <remedies-0501972357290001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> Chris Murphy wrote: > In article <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott > Anguish) wrote: > > You forget that there is another road here that Developers should be > >considering. OpenStep is crossplatform NOW on Mach, Solaris and NT, soon to > >be an Apple OS. If the DPS functionality was ripped from the Apple product, > >Apple looses its cross-platform advantages which it just got. DPS is part > >of the OpenStep spec. > > > And if OpenStep/Mach is so easy to port, then the new Mac OS (and it *is* > the new *MAC* OS...not the new NeXT OS) should be equally easy to port. > You are asking a whole bunch of Apple users to re-write applications for > DPS. It's a lot easier for the VERY small numbers of NeXT application to > need re-writing to work with GX. Of course the new Mac OS will have both DPS and GX. There are two ways to handle both GX and DPS that I did not see yet in this whole debate: 1) Both GX and DPS have a way to "poke a hole in the screen" for direct usage by an application. That would make it easy to incorporate bot drawing models into the new OS by using one as the base model for the workspace and poke holes wherever an application window uses the other drawing model. A problem could occur with non-rectangular windows or programs that draw on the screen background using the "other" drawing model. 2) GX obviously has a built-in facility to map its output to a PostScript device, usually a printer. So it should be really easy to use a DPS screen as a virtual printer. The OS would have to map GX calls to GX calls with automatic translation to (Display) PostScript. That would make GX based programs slower than they are now. OTOH it would give more reliable WYSIWYG, although the WYS part might not be very pretty with the misbehaved programs from you-know-who. Animation could be a problem, as well as speed. Whaddya say, flamers united? Volker
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> From: shill@iphysiol.unil.ch (Sean Hill) Message-ID: <32d24cc7.0@cisun2000.unil.ch> Date: 7 Jan 97 13:16:55 GMT dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp (John De Hoog) wrote: > It seems to work for most people most of the time. MacStep will have > to work better. For example: better multitasking performance than is > now available with Windows NT on two Pentium Pros. > I run Win NT4.0 and OpenStep 4.0 on the same hardware. OpenStep is much snappier. People are going to like this. Sean
From: Eric Doenges <doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 7 Jan 97 13:36:22 GMT Organization: Lehrstuhl fuer Prozessrechner, TU Muenchen (Germany) Distribution: world Message-ID: <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> Originator: doenges@nelion.lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp (John De Hoog) writes: >> MacStep makes Unix server functionality available at no added cost >How many millions of people need Unix server functionality? Anybody who operates a computer network. >You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will >get the best applications, and get them soonest? Theoretically (8^) MacStep, because NeXTStep is supposed to be very easy to programm, and I don't think Apple will sacrifice this feature in MacStep. In practice, I'd guess mainstream applications like Microsoft's Office will be availible on WindowsNT first, (maybe even exclusively) while MacStep will attract smaller MacStep-only vendors (if MacStep is as portable as OpenStep, this is not really a problem, because you can run OpenStep on top of WindowsNT). I think Apple, if they play their cards right, can take a significant portion of the personal computer and low- to medium end workstation markets. I just hope they don't become a virtual monopoly like Microsoft. -- Eric Doenges EMail:<doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> "You don't have to swim faster than the shark, just faster than the guy next to you" - anonymous
From: Marc Nagy <mnagy@freenet.npiec.on.ca> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:40:41 -0500 Organization: Zero Reality BBS Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D26E79.4D60@freenet.npiec.on.ca> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.Hawaii.Edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> <pxpst2-0201971310460001@path01.pathology.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > processors. The PowerPC chip is a generartion ahead of the pentium. The > MacOS even hobbled by nonnative I/O routines can still keep up with the > Pentiums. The PowerPC was designed to have a hefty FPU. It is the role > of programmers to use it. Well, I'm in computer science at university and we use PowerPCs and Codewarrior software for JAVA programming. At home, I use a Pentium and my machine at home does circles around the PowerlessPC's at school as far as compiling time.
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 16:21:22 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> On 01/07/97, Eric King wrote: > In article <jcr.852517036@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > > )Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that > )GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a > )vertical frame interval, isn't it? > > *No* Consider a realtime video editing app. You have to allocate time > for reading the data from the HD, decompressing the possibly multiple > streams of audio and video, apply the 2D effects and transitions, and then > display. GX and DPS would be handling the latter 2 stages. If DPS takes > significantly longer than GX you start to run the risk of dropping lots of > frames which of course eliminates one of the most compelling features of > the app. > Right now such an app exists for GX in a 'Lite' form the 'Pro' version > is due in June. GX transfer modes, transform, and clipping, and viewport > effects are used for its realtime effects. Since no such app exists for > DPS, we can not determine whether it can do real-time transparency effects > fast enough to use on running video. A vertical blank for one frame is > certainly *not* fast enough. Further we don't know how fast a transfer mode > implementation would be if implemented in the actual Postscript code or in > the Appkit. > Umm, well... one of the demos which apparently wowed AppLE engineers was five NEXTIME videos running simultaneously... ... apart from that, you make a couple of what I think are false assertions about video-editing s/w for DPS: The NeXTDimension certainly allowed direct video playback (PAL and NTSC) in 1991/2, including the ability to rescale the window, chop bits out of it whilst it was running, spray on paint, words etc. I guess it cheated by having the DPS server running on a different processor, but it shows it can be done in principle. There are also other video-editing apps available for NEXSTTEP/Intel, e.g. ScreenMachine II. I don't, unfortunately, know their full capabilities, but they clearly must allow some video editing undre DPS... I'm not sure how much of these capabilities are due to punching holeds in the DPS display. Comments? Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: "Dale Friesen" <dalef@bolen.bc.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 7 Jan 97 09:08:27 -0800 Organization: Island Net in Victoria, B.C. Canada Message-ID: <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.islandnet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.islandnet.com/comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Sak Wathanasin wrote: :> I've ported several MFC appls to the Mac using MacApp and the frameworks :> are similar enough that I don't think I'll have that much trouble learning :> MFC. Learning the "New MacStep" is going to be a much bigger investment. So :> far, I haven't seen anything that tells me that such an investment will pay :> off. I look forward to being convinced otherwise. :Hold off! Im not a Next expert.. but there has to be a market otherwise NEXT :would have gone out of business years ago. There HAS to be applications for :it now, so there wont be a lack of applications at launch. :Applications are 'apparently' easier to write on the Next, due to its :object orientated nature. Reviewers have said (when the NEXTCube initially :came out) that objects could be drag-and-dropped together to create :applications in a very short space of time. That was part of the appeal. :There is a wealth of source code on the net, so you can program by example. :Altura (??) will be creating some sort of porting-technology like mac2win. Please pardon my ignorance, but since NeXT runs on different CPUs is it necessary to recompile for each? Or are the APIs fairly high level such that you can write something for NeXT, drop it on a CD-ROM and anyone running the OS (regardless of hardware) can use it? If the latter, will this include the Mac running Rhapsody (the NeXT-based MacOS)? :regards.. :-vlod :no intended flame.. :-) Thanks for any info. - Dale
From: stefan@ping.at (Stefan Schneider) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: SSS Dec Quiz - last call ! Date: 7 Jan 1997 17:29:30 GMT Organization: Customer of PING - Personal InterNet Gate Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5au15q$i0h@peng.ping.at> Dear NEXTSTEP community, this is the last call for the SSS December quiz on http://www.ping.at/members/stefan/quiz.html If you haven't participated yet, please hurry! Deadline is January 15th. The winners - as always drawn by my nieces - will receive a free HelpViewer or LatinByrd license! Or alternatively, a rebate of upto US$ 99 on any NEXTSTEP application distributed by Stefan Schneider Software (including SuperDraw, SuperDebugger, and others). Have fun, - Stefan -- Stefan Schneider Software Dipl.Ing. Stefan Schneider Lerchenfelder St. 85/6 A-1070 Vienna, Austria, Europe voice/fax: +43-1-523-5834 e-mail: stefan@ping.at (NeXTMail preferred, MIME welcome) web: http://www.ping.at/members/stefan/
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 08:09:04 -0500 Organization: Central Nervous System Distribution: inet Message-ID: <nervous-0701970809040001@ascend17.netrover.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> In article <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com>, Frank <chu@ipoline.com> wrote: Mhz means nothing! Even my US.Robotics modem's DSP chip runs at 90mhz and some specialized DSPs run at several times more than that, but can they run my computer?!?! The Exponential PPC chip has only about 1 million transistor count and that is about the same amount of a 486!!! The 486 is CISC based and the X704 is RISC. The X704 will leave a 200PPro in the dust! How can you expect it to out run a lowly Pentium 133 with 3 million transistors!!! Plus, a fully configured Pentium200 can be had for under Transistors have absolutely nothing to do with raw processing speed. Talking about REAL performance, Alpha chip now already runs at 533mhz and out run PPC chip EVEN at the same clock. Too bad NT is not being supported on Alpha platforms...or _any_ RISC chip! MY POINT IS STILL THE SAME: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Not as well as you can shovel it. -- rhapsody: rhap.so.dy \'rap-s*d-e-\ n recitation of selections from epic poetry, to sew, stitch together; a portion of an epic poem adapted for recitation; a highly emotional utterance or literary work: extravagant rapturous discourse, RAPTURE, ECSTASY; the new Macintosh OS.
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 17:31:02 GMT Organization: Airwindows Distribution: world Message-ID: <jinx6568-0701971233070001@news.sover.net> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> In article <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) wrote: > What Apple needs to do is to better cover up Unix system administration, > some of which must still be done using a command-line interface under > OPENSTEP/Mach. But please don't toss Unix out. Hmm.. I can deal with that. I do hope they can optimize Unix in _some_ way, but if it really and truly is _not_ my problem, then I can't reasonably have any gripe with it. Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 10:26:02 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: >Umm, well... one of the demos which apparently wowed AppLE engineers was >five >NEXTIME videos running simultaneously... > Hehehehehe. One of the allegedly "wowed" Apple engineers commented on semper-fi that such demos are bogus. They showed a simple Cinepak movie with non-compressed sound. If they were showing 5 or 10 layers of composited video with alpha channels, sprites, text tracks, MIDI, 3D rendering, etc., THEN he would have been impressed. As it was, he was laughing. The problem is, from all that we can gather, NO Apple engineer was shown one of these demos. They were all upper-level management, most of whom have only been at Apple for a few months. All of whom apparently don't know a thing about Apple technology, such as GX's multi-language capabilities, [note: the projected ability of the *next* version of NeXTStep to do what GX is already doing in shipping products in China and Israel is called "vaporware" except when you're trying to justify a $400,000,000.00 purchase to the press] QuickTime abilities, [note demoing trivial playback of 5 movies to convince someone of speed when *REAL* QuickTime movies are doing 5-10x as much processing per frame, merely shows how ignorant the people that you are demoing these movies to because they actually took the demo seriously] and so on. >.... apart from that, you make a couple of what I think are false assertions >about video-editing s/w for DPS: > >The NeXTDimension certainly allowed direct video playback (PAL and NTSC) in >1991/2, including the ability to rescale the window, chop bits out of it >whilst it was running, spray on paint, words etc. I guess it cheated by >having the DPS server running on a different processor, but it shows it can >be done in principle. > Hardly applies to Eric's point, which was about shipping products on a single processor machine. >There are also other video-editing apps available for NEXSTTEP/Intel, e.g. >ScreenMachine II. I don't, unfortunately, know their full capabilities, but >they clearly must allow some video editing undre DPS... > >I'm not sure how much of these capabilities are due to punching holeds in the >DPS display. > >Comments? > Since you don't know whether these are using dedicated graphics, or using DPS calls directly, your "counter-examples" are absolutely meaningless. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com.nonsense> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 14:52:28 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32D2A97C.5577@exnext.com.nonsense> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lawson English wrote: > > mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: > > >Umm, well... one of the demos which apparently wowed AppLE engineers was > >five > >NEXTIME videos running simultaneously... > > > > Hehehehehe. One of the allegedly "wowed" Apple engineers commented on > semper-fi that such demos are bogus. They showed a simple Cinepak movie > with non-compressed sound. > > If they were showing 5 or 10 layers of composited video with alpha > channels, sprites, text tracks, MIDI, 3D rendering, etc., THEN he would > have been impressed. As it was, he was laughing. And what were the legendary BeOS movies doing? Were they using the complete QuickTime package? -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep From: douyang@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Darwin Ouyang) Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E3nG0s.Gyy@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:46:04 GMT Distribution: inet References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de>, Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?= <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> wrote: >Frank <chu@ipoline.com> writes: >Please also note that Intels cannot combine MMX applications >with FPU applications, because access to the FPU blocks the >data path to the MMX extension hardware on the chip. This is true. Intel chips would be better if they had more registers, and an orthagonal instruction set. :( >The latter can become a real nightmare for schedulers of multitasking >operating systems. This is incorrect. Because the FPU and MMX share registers, the current operating systems do not have to worry about saving and restoring any extra registers during a task switch - thus MMX has no impact on the OS scheduler at all. Darwin Ouyang
From: Christopher Rath <crath@nortel.ca> Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Q: Finding the file(s) which occupy a block on SCSI disk Followup-To: comp.unix.admin Date: 07 Jan 1997 12:24:54 -0500 Organization: Northern Telecom Ltd., Ottawa, Canada Message-ID: <iwkwwtppfdl.fsf@bmerhe83.nortel.ca> My system is a NeXTstation Mono running NEXTSTEP 3.3patch. The drive in question is a 1gig Quantum Fireball. I've cross-posted to these groups since NEXTSTEP is a BSD 4.3-ish UNIX derivative. I lost a sector on my hard-disk. I then used NEXTSTEP's reasb command to reassign the block. Unfortunately reasb was unable to read the old data from the block before issuing the reassign block command to the disk. Has anyone written some code to scan the filesystem of a disk to find the file(s) that is occupying a specific block on the disk? I would like to reinstall the damaged file, however, I don't know which file was damaged because the disk wouldn't even mount until I reassigned the block. Once reassigned, fsck was able to `fix' the disk. My effort to scan the disk is simply a double check to verify everything's OK. I have done some searching of the archives and haven't turned up anything on this; however, someone has probably written a utility to do this at one time or another. Thanks, Christopher === Christopher Rath ===== crath@bnr.ca ===== (613) 765-3141 === Northern Telecom Ltd. | Box 3511, Station `C' | ``Hydrogen is a colourless, odourless Ottawa, ON K1Y 4H7 | gas which, given enough time, turns FAX: (613) 763-4101 | into people.'' --- Henry Hiebert
From: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: 7 Jan 1997 11:58:25 GMT Organization: J. W. Goethe-Universitaet Frankfurt/Main Message-ID: <5atdp1$gq@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <akac-0601970109270001@slip-104-30.ots.utexas.edu> "Alex kac" <akac@mail.utexas.edu> wrote: > Desktop printers are mainly useful to see what is going on with your > printer. I see. In NEXTSTEP, you have PrinterManager.app (with a printer icon :-) ) that does exactly that, so it seems the functionality is there, just differently labeled. Bye Uli -- ______________________________________________________________________ Uli Zappe E-Mail: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (NeXTMail,Mime,ASCII) PGP on request Lorscher Strasse 5 WWW: - D-60489 Frankfurt Fon: +49 (69) 9784 0007 Germany Fax: +49 (69) 9784 0042 staff member of NEXTTOYOU - the German NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP magazine ______________________________________________________________________
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@exnext.com.nonsense> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 15:04:59 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32D2AC6B.5E79@exnext.com.nonsense> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <jinx6568-0701971233070001@news.sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Johnson wrote: > > In article <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, aisbell@ix.netcom.com > (Art Isbell) wrote: > > What Apple needs to do is to better cover up Unix system administration, > > some of which must still be done using a command-line interface under > > OPENSTEP/Mach. But please don't toss Unix out. > > Hmm.. I can deal with that. I do hope they can optimize Unix in _some_ > way, but if it really and truly is _not_ my problem, then I can't > reasonably have any gripe with it. There's nothing to stop people from writing alternate, safer versions of the standard Unix utilities. As long as they don't interfere with the expected behavior of the present utilities, there's no problem. They can be named differently, or else implement a superset of the normal functionality. Even NeXT does this. They've got tar, but they also ship gnutar with the OS. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: bootstrp@vnet.net (Nathan Tennies) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Looking For NeXT User In Charlotte Date: 7 Jan 1997 20:49:28 GMT Organization: Bootstrap Enterprises Inc Message-ID: <bootstrp-0701971552050001@bootstrap.vnet.net> Howdy folks, I'm the program coordinator for the Mac user group in Charlotte. Given all the hype about the merger, I thought it would be good for our members to see the current state of the NeXT first-hand, and get an idea for what makes NeXT so cool. I realize that the final version of Raphsody won't look and act like the NeXT, but I letting Mac folks start drooling over the possibilities would be good. So, I'm looking for a NeXT user in the Charlotte area who would be willing to come to one of our meetings in the next few months and give a presentation on the NeXT. I don't care whether you are a cube owner or you use NeXT on an Intel machine; if you or someone you know might be able to help out, I'd appreciate it. Nathan Tennies Charlotte Apple Computer Club
From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 08:50:57 +1200 Organization: School of Music, University of Auckland Message-ID: <p.kerr-0801970850570001@news.auckland.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <rex-ya023080000201970705000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5ah3kr$clq@news4.digex.net> <chris-0401972351160001@den-co15-19.ix.netcom.com> <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0501972357290001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5athn6$459@www.langen.bull.de> vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > Of course the new Mac OS will have both DPS and GX. > > There are two ways to handle both GX and DPS snip OTOH it would give more reliable WYSIWYG, > although the WYS part might not be very pretty with the misbehaved programs > from you-know-who. Animation could be a problem, as well as speed. > > Whaddya say, flamers united? I keep thinking of a similar debate which flares up from time to time in rec.music.compose, about computer apps for music notation. The consensus amongst professional musicians seems to be that hand drawn manuscript is faster to do and more "musical" for the players. A sharp knife, a goose quill, pot of ink, sheet of vellum: WYSIWYG? Nah, just an old-fashioned vector imaging system, speed and accuracy determined by hand-eye co-ordination. There would be no problems with any of this DPS/QD/GX/whatever stuff if people didn't have to read it... -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite
From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 09:24:30 +1200 Organization: School of Music, University of Auckland Message-ID: <p.kerr-0801970924300001@news.auckland.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > In article <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > > Furthermore... I've had no problems > >printing from DPS Level 2 to a level 1 printer. It just works. > > Wow. Let me get this straight--if you have a PostScript program that > creates a dictionary with a maxlength of six, and tries to put seven > things into it, and send that to a Level 1 printer, then it will magically > work fine, just because you've got Display PostScript on your desktop? That must be the amazing PostScript laundering engine that seems to be embedded in NextStep. Now if Apple has bought and intends bundling it in the MacOS I just can't wait to get my hands on it :-) Maybe Steve Jobs should have gone to work for Adobe... > > > >Sill limitations like actually printing w/o problems... > > The problems have been ongoing with the old QuickDraw printing > architecture. Every time some major revision of a driver came out, > applications would break left and right. Is this a problem with QD? or with DOS minded programmers who couldn't/wouldn't follow Apple's API guidelines? > And commiserate with the owners of HP DeskJets who would like to use the > Desktop PrintMonitor kludge, but can't. AFAIK it's HP's fault some DeskJets won't work thru the Printer port or with AppleTalk on. -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 22:11:55 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5auhnb$98d@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> In-Reply-To: <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> On 01/07/97, "Lawson English" wrote: <lots of loargely irrelevant stuff...> > Since you don't know whether these are using dedicated graphics, or using > DPS calls directly, your "counter-examples" are absolutely meaningless. > No, I think the point was to show that, under DPS, video editing *is* possible. I didn't make any claims about how flexible etc. it was. As I have said before, I hope something akin to GX's technology is incorporated into the new OS... looking at what looks to me already like a fairly long development roadmap, I hope AppLE doesn't try to do it too soon (it's not clear to me from a very quick read through most of the press releases where GX fits in, if at all) lest the time to market be delayed still further. There seems to be little reason now to continue this debate -- I point to Robert P. Lee's (President and CEO, Insignia Solutions) comments... "The combination of Apple and NeXT has created a synergy that is sure to ignite enthusiasm and support from the Macintosh community. Separately, these two companies have distinct and respected personalities, but together their combined strengths will establish the clear direction that Apple ISVs and customers are looking for." Would that the former part were more true. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 17:40:02 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000701971740020001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> <32D2A97C.5577@exnext.com.nonsense> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32D2A97C.5577@exnext.com.nonsense>, jon@exnext.com.nonsense wrote: )And what were the legendary BeOS movies doing? Were they using )the complete QuickTime package? Nope, they don't have a license and they don't have the resources to reverse engineer Quicktime's complete media architecture. The Be demos were definitely misleading, since QT 2.5 on the Mac OS can play multiple Quicktime movies at the same time without dropping frames also. Further QT 2.5 can do it with a variety of codecs not just Cinepak. A little known fact is that the MP support in QT 2.5 also enables preemptive threading on uniprocessor systems, hence it can divvy up processor time much better than other Mac OS processes. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: TooFast <mchute@ibm.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Next, Mac, and Prono Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 17:41:23 +0000 Message-ID: <32D28AB9.654F@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The implications of the Mac Next merger will forever change the way we veiw porno. I just saw Steve Jobs on the Midnight XXX network talking about how his Next operating system will speed up downloads from the alt.binaries newsgroups and allow faster viewing of preteen porno. With an installed base of 20 million, a new faster OS, and a fancy one handed, point click and jerk PPC 500mhz processor the world has become a much better place. 400 million....a bargan at any price.
From: John Hornkvist Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 6 Jan 1997 18:37:58 GMT Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Högskola Message-ID: <5argq6$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> Cc: uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY In <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> Uli Zappe wrote: >On a side note, when the "tabbbed shelf" got introduced, there was a lot of >discussion about where to place it, because placing it horizontally on the >screen reduces screen height that is often more needed than screen width. >I've never understood why they didn't simply evolve the shelf in the >FileViewer window into a tabbed shelf so you have all advantages together... I think that was because the tabbed shelf was supposed to replace both the dock and the file viewer's shelf. Therefore it had to be available at all times, which would not be the case if it were to be in the file viewer. Another reason, I believe was that they wanted to extend the metaphor, and allow new things to reside on the shelf. Hyperlinks come to mind. (Followups directed to advocacy only. Nothing should ever be crossposted to misc.) --- John Hornkvist --- nhoj at cd dot chalmers dot se Working on MSc in Computer Engineering, and MSc in Industrial Engineering and Management of Technology Does anyone need a NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP savvy programmer for the summer of '97? Sorry for not leaving my address in the header, but I get too many spam mails already... If you want to reach me, try nhoj at cd dot chalmers dot se
From: reichman@usc.edu (Matthew N. Reichman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 7 Jan 1997 22:54:07 GMT Organization: Como me Gusta productions Sender: reichman@comserv-i-56.usc.edu Distribution: world Message-ID: <5auk6f$k4l@usc.edu> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Cc: doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de In <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Eric Doenges wrote: > I think Apple, if they play their cards right, can take a significant > portion of the personal computer and low- to medium end workstation > markets. I just hope they don't become a virtual monopoly like Microsoft. I hope they do! It's time for serious competition that can finally marry issues of quality with issues of affordability and availability. The market place will always spur on creative forces for new and/or better things. Usually the need to survive (on whatever level) is the reason for good as well as bad change. -- Be well, Matthew Reichman <reichman@usc.edu> NeXTMAIL, SUN Mail & MIME welcome PGP key --> email w/ subject "request_PGP"
From: Rolfe Tessem <rolfe@ldp.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OpenStep (NeXTStep?) for Sparc Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 17:11:12 -0500 Organization: Lucky Duck Productions, Inc. Message-ID: <32D2CA00.63DE@ldp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where can I purchase a copy, and where can I find out exactly which Sparc platforms it runs on? -- Rolfe Tessem | Lucky Duck Productions, Inc. rolfe@ldp.com | 96 Morton Street (212) 463-0029 | New York, NY 10014
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 18:18:48 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> wrote: )Umm, well... one of the demos which apparently wowed AppLE engineers was five )NEXTIME videos running simultaneously... QT 2.5 on 7.5 can do that also. MP support brought preemptive threading on PowerMacs. )... apart from that, you make a couple of what I think are false assertions )about video-editing s/w for DPS: ) )The NeXTDimension certainly allowed direct video playback (PAL and NTSC) in )1991/2, including the ability to rescale the window, chop bits out of it )whilst it was running, spray on paint, words etc. I could be wrong, but it's my guess that this was probably not handled by the i860 onboard. There were and are many video chipsets that support real-time video scaling and overlays. )I guess it cheated by )having the DPS server running on a different processor, but it shows it can )be done in principle. For enormous expense, admittedly though processor speed has increased enough now that all one would probably need is an 8500 level computer to duplicate its functionality. But to get effects like wipes, dissolves, geometric transformations, etc. going in real-time you'll need a very optimized software architecture. )There are also other video-editing apps available for NEXSTTEP/Intel, e.g. )ScreenMachine II. I don't, unfortunately, know their full capabilities, but )they clearly must allow some video editing undre DPS... I did not say that there couldn't be any DPS video editing apps, I said there weren't any real-time video editing apps. Big difference. MovieClips lets you see fades and wipes happening in real-time, no need to render a preview clip like in Premiere. Real-time video effects using CPU power alone are only now just becoming possible. One definite defficiency DPS has in this area is that it has very weak support for transfer modes. Adjusting the hue, saturation, or color balance of a picture is a very common operation in video and something that can be done with one call in GX. One thing that I and many others have been advocating a long time is for Apple to incorporate the GX Graphics component into QTML, considering all of the other random things in there now (like classic Quickdraw, the sound manager, the resource manager, etc.) GX Graphics is actually one of the few ones that would make a *LOT* of sense. Furthermore there's already a GX track and 'codec' embedded within Quicktime. -Eric -- )>GX Enthusiast and 3D Programmer.
From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DPS does GX (LARGE, 2 attachments) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:51:47 +1200 Organization: School of Music, University of Auckland Message-ID: <p.kerr-0801971051470001@news.auckland.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <ldo-3012961239120001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a79oi$ch6@news3.digex.net> <5a88d0$fe1$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> <ldo-0101970625280001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <p.kerr-0501971928150001@news.auckland.ac.nz> <ldo-0701971950190001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0701971950190001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > The PostScript specification states that, if any part of a > filled shape crosses the area of a pixel, then the pixel is filled. This > is the way ALL PostScript (and PDF, and Bravo) rasterizers work. Thus, at > lower resolutions, you can see the odd effect that I demonstrate in those > example files (the URLs are > <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/GXLogo.PDF> and > <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/SixRectangles.PDF>, for > those who missed them previously). The Red Book, 2nd edition 2nd printing January 1991, goes on (S.6.5.1, p.321): " This ensures that no shape ever disappears as a result of unfavorable placement relative to the device pixel grid, as might happen with other possible scan conversion rules. The area covered by painted pixels is always at least as large as the area of the original shape. This scan conversion rule applies to both fill operations and to strokes with non-zero width. Zero width strokes are done in a device-dependent manner that may include fewer pixels than this rule specifies." > Conversely, QuickDraw GX specifies that a pixel is only filled if the > shape overlaps its centre. This avoids the resolution-dependent > misalignment problem, though its drawback is that very thin shapes can > completely disappear. But there is a technique for working around this in > at least some situations--whereas there is no workaround for the > PostScript problem. The workaround for the PostScript problem is given on p.12 (S.2.1) of the above Red Book: "Higher resolution yields better quality and fidelity of the resulting output, but is achieved at greater cost." s.2.1 goes on to describe output devices in which each pixel can be either black or white, or devices which can set each pixel to an intermediate shade of gray. I am not aware of the precise details of HP's RET, but microscopic examination of the output on plain copier paper seems to indicate that the painted dot size and shape is adjusted to give an optical illusion of smoothing the edge of one pixel width steps. I agree with typographers that this is a non-optimum method for text, but the deplorable results can be seen all over the WWW in dithered GIF and JPG images of blocks of text. But I repeat, this particular problem is a peculiarity of the use of raster output devices, not a fundamental weakness of PostScript. To quote the Red Book again from the intro to Ch.2 controlling raster output devices is only one of the four principle features claimed for PostScript. "Much of the power of the PostScript language derives from its ability to deal with the general class of <it> raster output devices.</it>" Or to paraphrase: some of the problems of PostScript derive from restriction of output devices generally to the raster class. It seems quite feasible, at the certain risk of great ire from Adobe, to write a PostScript interpreter which used GX scan conversion rules instead of Adobe's. I don't think it would give any better quality output. As an innocent aside: what other applications besides TeX create DVI files? DVI's claim to fame is that it will give "optimum" output anyplace, anytime, anyhow... -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 23:08:17 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5aul11$ko8@news.digifix.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> On 01/06/97, Art Isbell wrote: >remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: > >> just like they will >> toss out remaining the remaining "Unixness" of OpenStep. > <snip> > What Apple needs to do is to better cover up Unix system >administration, some of which must still be done using a >command-line interface under OPENSTEP/Mach. But please don't toss >Unix out. > This is infact what Ms Hancock said. That NeXT has done a good job of 'hiding' the Unix and that they will continue on that road. Removing a major compatibility feature would be bad. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: John Hornkvist Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 6 Jan 1997 18:42:35 GMT Organization: Chalmers Tekniska Högskola Distribution: World Message-ID: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> "Alex kac" wrote: >Desktop printers are useful in that I can directly see what jobs I have >queued up. For example, I normally print about 3-4 jobs at a time. With >desktop printers, I can open up a printer and see that this printer is >printing this job and is on this page. NEXTSTEP has a PrintManager that lets you manage the printer queue, add printers, change printer properties and test printers. >When i worked at Apple and had access to about thousands of printers and >normally only used 3 lasers near me, I would usually print to the one >nearest me, but if I found that a certain print job was taking too long, I >could open one desktop printer, find the job that was waiting to print AFTER >the job that was taking a long time and move it to another printer so that >it would print. So basically I was printing to two printers simultaneously. I don't think this is possible in the current implementation. You do get a selection of printers to print to when you select the print option from the application, however. Overall, I think most of what you want are easily integrateable into the NEXTSTEP PrintManager. --- John Hornkvist --- nhoj at cd dot chalmers dot se Working on MSc in Computer Engineering, and MSc in Industrial Engineering and Management of Technology Does anyone need a NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP savvy programmer for the summer of '97? Sorry for not leaving my address in the header, but I get too many spam mails already... If you want to reach me, try nhoj at cd dot chalmers dot se
From: lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 7 Jan 1997 23:38:21 GMT Organization: UNINETT news service Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5aumpd$dtb@doffen.uninett.no> Darwin Ouyang writes: : In article <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de>, : Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?= <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> wrote: : >The latter can become a real nightmare for schedulers of multitasking : >operating systems. : This is incorrect. : Because the FPU and MMX share registers, the current operating systems do : not have to worry about saving and restoring any extra registers during a : task switch - thus MMX has no impact on the OS scheduler at all. However, it has a helluva impact on FPU performance - what's that, 70 to 100 cycles to clear the pipeline after MMX operands? Cheers...
From: gbh@erols.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Price reduction for OPENSTEP? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 12:00:32 -0500 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <32D28130.2659@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has there been any word yet on whether there would be a price reduction for OPENSTEP? What vendors sell upgrades for OPENSTEP? --gh
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 19:12:02 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF85394-3C536@198.68.42.153> References: <p.kerr-0701971306310001@news.auckland.ac.nz> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Kerr <p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz> said: >Cheez, a choice? How do I decide which one to use? >or is it automagic so I don't need to know, or care... ;-) Are you planning on editing your graphics or merely displaying it? Do you need speed of display or absolutely rock-solid PS printing capabilities? --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: dforrest@pop.erols.com (Daryl Forrest) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Latest OS for NeXT Cube? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:32:02 -0500 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <dforrest-ya023480000701972032020001@news.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've been lucky enough to be loaned an (original) NeXT cube (with 17" megapixel monochrome display, 400dpi printer, and CD-ROM drive) to play with for a while. What is the latest NeXTStep OS release for this machine? Are these OS updates free? Any idea on how to get the latest OS for this machine? Any advice/help is appreciated! Thanks, Daryl Forrest -- /*-------------------------------------------------------------------* | Daryl Forrest | Email: dforrest@erols.com | | Software Engineer | DarylF2@aol.com | *-------------------------------------------------------------------*/
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 7 Jan 1997 18:38:02 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF84B91-1E335@198.68.42.153> References: <32D2A97C.5577@exnext.com.nonsense> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan W. Hendry <jon@exnext.com.nonsense> >And what were the legendary BeOS movies doing? Were they using >the complete QuickTime package? Nope. Same thing, from what I can gather. --------------------------------------------------- "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we should all go home." -Me ---------------------------------------------------
From: rzeman@his.com (Rick Zeman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:03:38 -0500 Organization: None Message-ID: <rzeman-0701972103380001@shiva1-mclean-201.his.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <5afitj$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-0201972152300001@shiva1-mclean-252.his.com> <ldo-0701971942350001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0701971942350001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: |In article <rzeman-0201972152300001@shiva1-mclean-252.his.com>, |rzeman@his.com (Rick Zeman) wrote: | |>And it's really nice sending complex Postscript jobs to the printer. I've |>never seen it gag because it didn't have enough memory as QuickDraw GX is |>smart enough to just download the glyphs that are used instead of the |>entire font. | |I seem to recall a posting on the GX user mailing list (it wasn't you, was |it Rick?) from somebody who was beta-testing some fonts. All he had was an |ancient LaserWriter Plus (with a gigantic 2MB of RAM! Remember them?) Nope, wasn't me. I use an NTR at home with 3 megs of RAM. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Rick Zeman In our secret world, we will collide mailto:rzeman@his.com In all of the places we were hiding love Will Rogers never met Bill Clinton What was it we were thinking of?
From: damir@proaxis.com (Damir Smitlener) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 02:45:18 GMT Organization: ProAxis Communications, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> In article <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au>, "Eddie Cejvan" <cejvane@post.crc.cra.com.au> wrote: [...snip...silly comments about CISC-RISC...] >I will leave you with this thought: >Reduced Instruction Set = Less Transistors = Lower Cost. It's a little ironic that after chewing him out you post such an idiotic statement. The biggest transistor-count processors are RISC. Many RISC processors have larger instruction sets than many CISC processors. Thanks to the marketing departments of many CPU vendors, neither term has much meaning anymore; as an example I give you Motorola (one of the PCC Triumvirate) repackaging the 68k as a Coldfire and selling it as an embedded RISC processor. >You've just been shut up by >Eddie Cejvan You really ought to follow your own advice. -- Damir Smitlener damir@proaxis.com
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 8 Jan 1997 03:11:37 GMT Organization: Central Nervous System Message-ID: <nervous-0701972212090001@ascend22.netrover.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> In article <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com>, dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will get the best applications, and get them soonest? Whichever one is easier to develop on i.e. OpenStep. -- rhapsody: rhap.so.dy \'rap-s*d-e-\ n recitation of selections from epic poetry; a highly emotional utterance or literary work; RAPTURE, ECSTASY; the new Macintosh OS.
From: edodge@teleport.com (Edward Dodge) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can beat shity Petium Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:22:36 -0300 Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <edodge-0701972222360001@ip-pdx19-23.teleport.com> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <32D20D7C.C75@rogerswave.ca> In article <32D20D7C.C75@rogerswave.ca>, jmiller@rogerswave.ca wrote: > Lasse Olsen wrote: > > : They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > > Where can I buy one? > > Cheers... > The 533Mhz isn't out yet but you can buy a 225Mhz TODAY. Can buy a 250Mhz today as well, I think. I wonder where the 250Mhz PPro is? -- Edward
From: mcgredo@crl.com (Donald R. McGregor) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Price reduction for OPENSTEP? Date: 7 Jan 1997 21:35:19 -0800 Organization: Miskatonic University Department of Classics Message-ID: <5avbmn$qj@crl.crl.com> References: <32D28130.2659@erols.com> In article <32D28130.2659@erols.com>, <gbh@erols.com> wrote: >Has there been any word yet on whether there would >be a price reduction for OPENSTEP? > >What vendors sell upgrades for OPENSTEP? The presenter at the NeXT demo at MacWorld was emphatic that there would be no change in the price structure of anything, for now. That might change at some indefinite time in the future. My guess is that they'll keep the prices high until they ship the PPC version. That will discourage developers from switching over to wintel hardware. It also lets them charge monopoly rents for a while yet. Life sucks. Oh well, I've got academic discount.... I was disappointed with the NeXT presentation, btw. They were doing a canned WebObjects demo. they should be pitching the IB/Obj-C/AppKit environment to developers, which is THE critical market for the architecture changeover. -- Don McGregor |"It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single chicken, mcgredo@crl.com | being possessed of a good fortune and presented with a good | road, must be desirous of crossing."
From: "Mitchell Allen" <mitchell.allen@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: R/E The NeXT Story Date: 8 Jan 97 01:00:28 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <AEF8A230-38729@207.147.51.253> References: <32D09EA9.5E96@transport.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0003861B" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0003861B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jan 6, 1997 1:41 AM, Gary Driggs <mailto:garyd@transport.com> wrote: > There have been a small handful of books about Jobs and NeXT, Inc. that > have come out over the last 10 years. The only one I've found > interesting to read at any length is Randall E. Stross's 'Steve Jobs and > the NeXT Big Thing.' I'm curious if anyone out there has feedback on > this title. It was published by Atheneum in '93 and the ISBN # is > 0-689-12135-0. have you read "The Journey is the Reward"? --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0003861B Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0003861D" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0003861D Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASABIAAD//gAMQXBwbGVNYXJrCv/bAIQABwUFBgUFBwYGBggHBwgKEQsK CQkKFA8PDBEYFRkZFxUXFxodJSAaHCMcFxchLCEjJygqKioZHy4xLSkxJSkqKAEHCAgKCQoTCwsT KBsXGygoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgo/8QB ogAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoLAQADAQEBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAQIDBAUGBwgJ CgsQAAIBAwMCBAMFBQQEAAABfQECAwAEEQUSITFBBhNRYQcicRQygZGhCCNCscEVUtHwJDNicoIJ ChYXGBkaJSYnKCkqNDU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6g4SFhoeI iYqSk5SVlpeYmZqio6Slpqeoqaqys7S1tre4ubrCw8TFxsfIycrS09TV1tfY2drh4uPk5ebn6Onq 8fLz9PX29/j5+hEAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMz 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OnSpKQnK6sFFFFBIUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABR RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFF FABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAf/Z --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0003861D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <SMALLER><SMALLER><X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>9</PARAM><FONTFAMILY><PARAM>New York</PARAM> </FONTFAMILY></X-FONTSIZE></SMALLER></SMALLER><X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>12</PA= RAM><FONTFAMILY><PARAM>Palatino</PARAM> On Mon, Jan 6, 1997 1:41 AM, </FONTFAMILY></X-FONTSIZE> --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0003861D Content-Type: application/X-url Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Gary Driggs bWFpbHRvOmdhcnlkQHRyYW5zcG9ydC5jb20= --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0003861D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>12</PARAM><FONTFAMILY><PARAM>Palatino</PARAM> wrote: </FONTFAMILY></X-FONTSIZE><X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>12</PARAM><FONTFAMILY><PAR= AM>New York</PARAM>> There have been a small handful of books about Jobs and NeXT, Inc. that > have come out over the last 10 years. The only one I've found > interesting to read at any length is Randall E. Stross's 'Steve Jobs and > the NeXT Big Thing.' I'm curious if anyone out there has feedback on > this title. It was published by Atheneum in '93 and the ISBN # is > 0-689-12135-0.</FONTFAMILY></X-FONTSIZE><X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>12</PARAM>= <FONTFAMILY><PARAM>Palatino</PARAM> have you read "The Journey is the Reward"?</FONTFAMILY></X-FONTSIZE> --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-0003861D-- --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-0003861B--
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: DPS does GX (LARGE, 2 attachments) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 19:01:23 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801971901230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <ldo-3012961239120001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a79oi$ch6@news3.digex.net> <5a88d0$fe1$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> <ldo-0101970625280001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5acebm$1t3@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <ldo-0401971519120001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5al73f$3he@news4.digex.net> In article <5al73f$3he@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: >ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: >> These illustrate a problem with the PostScript pixel-rendering >> model, namely that a pixel is always filled if any part of a path >> crosses it. As a result, the edges of abutting shapes in the >> above files look misaligned, even though they're not. The effect >> is resolution-dependent: the more you zoom in, the less apparent >> it becomes, and if you print it, it tends to look fine. > >As I posted in the begining of this thread... Two images that showed >that under NeXT's DPS the above is bunk and doesn't exist in >practice. But the effect DOES exist with my images--it is not "bunk". I stumbled across it with <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/GXLogo.PDF>, which was a design I did for my QuickDraw GX programming web page intro <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/gx/intro.html>, so if that's not "in practice", I don't know what is. I then created the simpler image <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/SixRectangles.PDF>. specifically to demonstrate this effect, in a form so simple that you can actually look at the PDF code to see how it arises. For information about QuickDraw GX, a next-generation graphics/printing architecture that does not suffer from this problem, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 01:42:54 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf-ya023580000801970142540001@news.tiac.net> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <akac-0601970109270001@slip-104-30.ots.utexas.edu> <5atdp1$gq@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5atdp1$gq@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de>, uli@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de (Uli Zappe) wrote: snip > I see. In NEXTSTEP, you have PrinterManager.app (with a printer icon :-) ) > that does exactly that, so it seems the functionality is there, just > differently labeled. Silly answer to a silly post. (Sorry, but I'm getting tired of all the chest-beating on both sides.) PM.app corresponds to PrintMonitor on the Mac. Available whenever a print job is queued. The Desktop Printer just gives you a clickable way to access the queue for a specific printer. Presumably useful if you use many printers at the same time. Silly waste of RAM for most people - like most of MacOS 7.5. Barney
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 19:44:37 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801971944380001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <p.kerr-0801970924300001@news.auckland.ac.nz> In article <p.kerr-0801970924300001@news.auckland.ac.nz>, p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote: >In article <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, >ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: >> > >> >Sill limitations like actually printing w/o problems... >> >> The problems have been ongoing with the old QuickDraw printing >> architecture. Every time some major revision of a driver came out, >> applications would break left and right. > >Is this a problem with QD? or with DOS minded programmers who >couldn't/wouldn't follow Apple's API guidelines? No, the problem wasn't DOS-minded programmers (not all the time, anyway :-)). The problem was the sheer limitations of the old QuickDraw printing manager, which was originally designed, you may remember, to print to the original ImageWriter printer and nothing else. Those with short memories have no idea of the compatibility hassles that appeared with the first LaserWriter in 1985, when the number of printers you had to deal with suddenly doubled. The story of Mac printing has been a story of ongoing compatibility problems, right through to the present day. You had no way to define custom paper types (well, you can now with LaserWriter 8, but that only works with PostScript printers). You couldn't mix different page formats (eg portrait vs landscape) in a single print job. The background printing system was so kludgy that Apple didn't dare let third-party vendors try to use it. To get around the limitations of the old QuickDraw graphics model, printer drivers started supporting "picture comments" that you could embed in your graphics to enable special printer features like text rotation and Bézier curves. But once you started doing this, the original idea of WYSIWYG, that what you saw on-screen should bear some resemblance to what appeared on the printed page, went right out the window. Now, with QuickDraw GX, we finally have a rational basis for doing away with all this accumulated crap. The graphics model is so powerful that the need for driver-specific "picture comments" mostly disappears (yes, you can still embed custom PostScript code if you want to). And the printing system is extremely flexible and customizable and smart, so you can have your custom paper types and mixed page formats and all kinds of goodies that would make users' lives so much easier--if only they knew it was there, and if only application vendors would support it a little. For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:48:55 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> In article <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org>, judas@tomtec.abg.sub.org (Th.Huber) wrote: > > RISC code can`t be speed up by more integration onto the chips, only by clocking > the CPU higher and higher. You have it exactly backwards. CISC instruction sets are more complex and require more decode logic. This makes it harder decompose the instruction stream into independant pieces that can be dispatched to seperate execution units. As chip integration increases, more execution units can be added which RISC can take advantage of in a more direct fashion. (There are fewer dependancies between instructions, etc) Take a look at the fastest CISC out there, the Pentium Pro. What does it do? It 'preprocesses' the CISC instruction stream into a simpler, more 'RISC' like, instruction stream which is then executed. How much cheaper/faster would that CPU be if it could be fed the RISC code directly? Show me a CISC chip and I will show you a faster/cheaper RISC chip. This don't make CISC bad, just not better. (I won't even bring up the point that RISC chips have high clocks "Because they can"!) In the end it really doesn't matter. Most code is written in a high level languge and can compile anywhere. Code that is written against a particular CPU will be shortlived. Even a CISC is no promise of long life. Code written against 8086 is _NOT_ very performal on a Pentium today. Sure it runs, but very poorly compared to code written with that CPU in mind. Advice: Write it in a high level language and re-compile as needed. Oh well..... -- Andrew Carol carol1@apple.com I do not speak for Apple. All opinions are my own.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep From: petrich@netcom.com (Loren Petrich) Subject: RISC vs. CISC? Message-ID: <petrichE3oLqK.9Ln@netcom.com> Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211> Distribution: inet Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:47:08 GMT Sender: petrich@netcom21.netcom.com In article <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211>, Andrew Carol <carol1@apple.com> wrote: >In article <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org>, judas@tomtec.abg.sub.org >(Th.Huber) wrote: >> RISC code can`t be speed up by more integration onto the chips, only by >clocking >> the CPU higher and higher. >You have it exactly backwards. CISC instruction sets are more complex >and require more decode logic. This makes it harder decompose the >instruction stream into independant pieces that can be dispatched >to seperate execution units. >As chip integration increases, more execution units can be added >which RISC can take advantage of in a more direct fashion. (There >are fewer dependancies between instructions, etc) ... [other praise of RISC deleted...] Actually, RISC and CISC are two ends of a continuum. Canonical features of RISC are: * All instructions are the same length, usually 4 bytes, are aligned to its length. This makes it easier to pipeline instructions, since one knows in advance how big they will be. CISC instruction lengths, OTOH, can vary dramatically. * The only memory accesses are for loading and storing. Since a memory access, especially with a cache miss or two, can take several cycles, it may be desirable to do some other stuff while this operation takes place. That is much more difficult with many CISC instruction sets, since one CISC operation may specify several memory accesses and operations. * There are a large number of registers (32 in the case of the PowerPC). This helps avoid making a lot of memory accesses, since intermediate results can often be stored in some register. A downside is that for a function call (say), there are that many more values to be stored and loaded. * Instruction simplicity makes pipelining and superscalarity easier. RISC chips have proven scalability (consider the varying numbers of different types of instruction-execution units in different PowerPC models); instructions may be arranged to be optimal on one member of the family, but they will still execute on others, even if suboptimally. This property appears to be lacking from VLIW (Very Long Instruction Word), in which each instruction word constains the instructions for several execution units. I've yet to find out the instruction set of the DEC Alpha, so I can't say whether or not it is truly super-RISC, which is what is claimed about it. The PowerPC, though with all these features, has a large number of instructions, and some rather complicated-looking ones; it has numerous bit-manipulation instructions and 3-operand arithmetic and logic instructions, along with possible auto-increment for loads and stores (useful for arrays). These concessions to CISCiness help keep code from getting too big; CISC code does tend to be more compact than equivalent RISC code. Among CISC architectures, the Motorola 680x0 one is perhaps the most RISCish; it does not have a large number of instructions, but it has numerous addressing modes, most of which can be used for any operand. It also has 16 general-purpose registers, which can be used for just about anything (in practice, 8 of them are specialized for addresses and 8 for data). The Intel 80x86 is perhaps the ultimate in CISCiness; it features only 8 general-purpose registers, and some of them are specialized in various ways (an instruction does a certain thing with one of them, rather than with whatever is specified as an operand). The older members of this series had a segmented addressing scheme (all other chips mentioned here have a flat scheme), complete for specialized registers for addressing the segments. This setup is maintained in the newer ones, with the addition of an option for a flat memory space. Interestingly, the Pentium Pro is a RISC chip with a CISC interpreter; the latter is said to occupy a large amount of chip real estate. And it is rumored that its intended successor to the x86 architecture will be some RISC architecture. And interestingly, while Motorola has several diagrams of what each bit of chip real estate is used for in its PowerPC chips, Intel has not done the same for its Pentium or Pentium Pro chips (simply see http://www.mot.com and http://www.intel.com). -- Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh petrich@netcom.com And a fast train My home page: http://www.webcom.com/petrich/home.html Mirrored at: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/pe/petrich/home.html
From: marcel@sysyem.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 09:09:08 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <5avo7k$3mt$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence Dliveiro) writes: > Trouble is, the PostScript graphics model is inherently unsuited to the > screen (as I have tried to demonstrate in other postings), and Display ^^^^^ <- unsuccessfully! > PostScript lacks features that are important to interactive on-screen > graphics--features which QuickDraw GX has, and which can be important, > among other things, for writing games! Your 'evidence' consisted of a PDF file generated from a GX App that shows some inconsistencies at low resolution. Please, do tell me where DPS had any part in this. As has been pointed out elsewhere, DPS has specific enhancements to deal with display issues, and there exist PostScript procedures for snapping shapes to the pixel grid of the current output device. Why do I bother? Marcel
From: andy@research.canon.com.au (Andy Newman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 20:06:52 +1100 Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia Message-ID: <5avo3c$a34@horton.research.canon.com.au> References: <ldo-0401972147210001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5alm5c$kof@chico.franken.de> <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz writes: >Because QuickDraw GX isn't a programming language, it is able to provide a >high-quality graphics interchange format that is *fully-editable* at the >object level. Not to mention a print-file format that makes page >extraction and other such operations a breeze. It is quite possible to provide this with a programming language too. You need a syntax and semantics that takes these factors into account to give you page independence and allow editing of the drawing. It can be (and has been) done. -- Andy Newman <andy@research.canon.com.au>
From: umisef@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Bernd Meyer) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 8 Jan 97 04:34:29 GMT Organization: Monash University Distribution: inet Message-ID: <umisef.852698069@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> References: <01bbef77$50776810$15818bce@djowens> <851275965mnewsachaney@voicenet.com> <59k1ke$5sr@news.hawaii.edu> <32BD3D7E.422C@sfbayrun.com> <32BDB8B6.5741@flash.net> <carol1-2212961724430001@macip-ara-32.apple.com> <5a4re1$qfe@news.bctel.net> <01bbf6ea$87569840$5813acce@chu.ipoline.com> <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> <5ankv4$16em$4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <5ar7t4$6qv@misery.millcomm.com> skappel@intranetsol.com (Steve Kappel) writes: >You will be forgiven for your IBM-centric view. >Try http://endeavor.fujitsu.co.jp/hypertext/fpcrf/e/ap1000.html >which is about the Fujitsu AP1000 that supports up to 1024 >SuperSPARCs. And the best thing about it: You can run linux on it :=))) Bernie
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy From: t.macdougall@ucl.ac.uk (Tom Macdougall) Subject: Re: Don't rush into GX on NG OS! (was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Message-ID: <t.macdougall-0701971623290001@pc429a.immun.ucl.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:18:33 GMT References: <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <AEF598F5-B3E64@198.68.42.188> <5appoh$h9p@news4.digex.net> Organization: University College London In article <5appoh$h9p@news4.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > > Keep DPS where it is, but work on enhancing GX to replace/enhance > > DPS over the long run... > > This seems rather reasonable... To modify/enhance or even replace > DPS where and how it makes sense...making the enironment more > robust, while while maintaining stability... This seems a fine > goal... > > Followups to: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy > (trimming cross posts) > -- > Thanks, later, John Kheit It seems reasonable therefor you can guarantee it won't be done ;-) Tom Macdougall
From: marcel@sysyem.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 09:37:46 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <5avpta$5ad$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence Dliveiro) writes: > Than why do PostScript-based applications take up so much RAM and CPU > power? To be quite frank, I don't know why this is the case on MacOS. It is definitely NOT the case under OpenStep. When I first used Acrobat reader on my 040 Mac I was dismayed at the abysmal speed compared to the three free PDF viewers for OpenStep, all three of which are blindingly fast. (In fact, one of them is _written_ almost entirely in PostScript). Did I mention that all three Apps are rather compact? [...Software RIPs...] > How much do these RIPs cost, compared to the price of a decent-quality, > non-PostScript printer? This seems to be an extremely difficult concept: with DPS, the software RIP is already there. DPS _IS_ THE SOFTWARE RIP. (Excuse me for shouting). I would be very surprised if the Apple printers didn't come with software + license to do this. Imagine that: the humblest StyleWriter becomes a PostScript Level 2/3 printer with virtually (so to speak) unlimited RAM, all network Fonts on-line ( "look ma, no downloading" ), and a CPU more powerful than most imagesetter-RIPs today. Yes, overkill for sure. But still nice. > >PostScript handles Type 42 (TrueType) fonts quite successfully. > > I don't think this is a standard PostScript feature: it works with Apple's > printers and some others, but not necessarily all of them. But it is in the current DPS implementation. That's what we're talking about here. And if you think that Apple won't be capable of converting TT to T1 when generating a Level 1 compatible PS file, well gee, they already did it once... Lawrence, nobody is talking about taking a PostScript Level 1 printer, driving it with QuickDraw converted to PS with the Laserwriter 7.x driver and then calling it the display subsystem. All the Mac/PostScript interoperability problems you mention are very interesting, but completely irrelevant to DPS, because with DPS, these problems _disappear_. Poof. All gone. As a matter of fact, most of the 'counter'-arguments you bring are excellent arguments _for_ having DPS on the platform. Which is what it's going to be from what I hear. Marcel
From: marcel@sysyem.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 09:50:27 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <5avql3$63k$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <ldo-0801972153050001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0801972153050001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence Dliveiro) writes: > Why not? That's the beauty of GX--that it *can* give you such high-quality > imaging on such low-cost hardware. This exact same concept applies to DPS. Why is this so difficult? Anyway, if you decide to stick with MacOS, you'll be able to find out for yourself just how horribly slow display is with DPS and the amazing print-troubles you will have. Not to mention all the disgustung cross-platform portability. Marcel
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:10:22 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net> <ldo-0401972147210001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5alm5c$kof@chico.franken.de> In article <5alm5c$kof@chico.franken.de>, guenther@golem.golem.franken.de (Guenther Fuerthaller) wrote: >ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: > >>The trouble with PostScript is, it's not just the imaging model, it's all the >>programming-language baggage that goes with it. Consider what happens when >>someone gives you a Level 2 PostScript file, but all you've got is a Level 1 >>PostScript printer to print it on. Identical imaging model, right? But can you >>print it? Not a hope. >>That's why QuickDraw GX lets you take a step backwards from all this nonsense, >>so you can create high-quality graphics without having to worry about the >>limitations of PostScript. > >I can't take people serious that first do not respect the advantages of >having a programming language inside the output device... It's not an advantage--it's a liability. The programming language part of PostScript is probably the single biggest factor in all the well-known problems with PostScript files. It is what makes it impossible to do simple page extraction, or graphic editing at the object level (not, at any rate, without putting the file through a custom PostScript interpreter that outputs graphical objects in some non-PostScript format). It probably accounts for half the RAM and CPU overhead of PostScript. Because QuickDraw GX isn't a programming language, it is able to provide a high-quality graphics interchange format that is *fully-editable* at the object level. Not to mention a print-file format that makes page extraction and other such operations a breeze. > ...and that second >believe that anything that works fine on their desktop at 72 dpi and with >their desktop printer at a few hundreds dpi still works the same way >at 3000 dpi and more (that's what the PostScript imaging model is designed >for). Strange, that's exactly what the Display PostScript advocates are claiming--that their favourite graphical engine works just fine at screen resolutions on the desktop, as well as at higher resolutions on the printer. Trouble is, the PostScript graphics model is inherently unsuited to the screen (as I have tried to demonstrate in other postings), and Display PostScript lacks features that are important to interactive on-screen graphics--features which QuickDraw GX has, and which can be important, among other things, for writing games! For information about QuickDraw GX, a next-generation graphics/printing architecture that is more at home on the screen than PostScript will ever be, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 19:14:03 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> In article <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr>, mlbizer@mail.utexas.eduu (Marc Bizer) wrote: >In article <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, >ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: > >>I don't think Display PostScript was ever capable of running on such >>hardware. :-) > > Well, it did run fine on a 25 MHz '030, since that was the original NeXT >processor. Except the machines I mentioned in my posting were a Mac IIcx and an SE/30, each with a 16MHz 68030 and 8MB of RAM!
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 8 Jan 1997 08:34:20 GMT Organization: "dtb? - entfernt dieses Geschwuer vom Arsche des usenet." (Kresimir Cesljarevic) Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5avm6c$v95@white.koehntopp.de> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <E3nG0s.Gyy@novice.uwaterloo.ca> douyang@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Darwin Ouyang) writes: >In article <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de>, >Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?= <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> wrote: >>The latter can become a real nightmare for schedulers of multitasking >>operating systems. >This is incorrect. >Because the FPU and MMX share registers, the current operating systems do >not have to worry about saving and restoring any extra registers during a >task switch - thus MMX has no impact on the OS scheduler at all. If your operating system does lazy saving of FPU registers (that is: FPU state is not saved unless another task using the FPU gets scheduled), you have to mark programs using MMX instructions as FPU users as well. The advantage of lazy saving is dimished. Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." -- Henry Spencer
From: ******** <********@********.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:32:31 -0800 Organization: ******** Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5aupsh$id5@news.accessus.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Th.Huber wrote: > Why CISC then ? > > CISC code has the option to be executed by future CPUs, which are able to do > more and more of the complex instructions with RISC technics. > (e.g 060 has some of these features) So is RISC. R2000 code is still compatible with R10000, FYI. > Why not RISC ? > > RISC code can`t be speed up by more integration onto the chips, only by clocking > the CPU higher and higher. It is far easier to implement superscalar execution pipelines with RISC instruction set than with CISC instruction set. Most modern RISC processors are 4-way superscalar, while X86 is limited to 3-way superscalar execution with Pentium Pro. We should see 8-way superscalar implemetations of RISC architectures pretty soon, and I believe Alpha21264 will be the first of bunch. > On the long run, we`ll have CPUs that run CISCcode on a RISC CPU, so it`s really > silly not to use CISC today. You have no idea of what you are talking about, so shut up.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:22:41 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> In article <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net>, pfd@ziplink.net wrote: >On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 19:42:46 +1300, Lawrence DčOliveiro <ldo@waikato.ac.nz> wrote: >> In article <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com>, kindall@manual.com >> (Jerry Kindall) wrote: >> >> >In article <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com>, rzeman@his.com (Rick >> >Zeman) wrote: >> >> >> >>Gee, sounds just like QuickDraw GX.... >> > >> >Yeah, except it's an industry standard language that's part of the OS >> >instead of a proprietary memory-hogging add-on that virtually no one uses. >> >> At current prices, GX uses about US$15 worth of RAM. Whereas comparing >> current printer prices, PostScript seems to add US$150 or more to the >> price of a printer. So which is the resource hog? It looks like PostScript >> is ten times worse than GX! > >This is quite possibly the stupidest argument I've ever seen. The >incremental cost of PostScript in a printer is the cost of software >and licensing. It has NOTHING to do with resource consumption (unless >you only consider money as a resource.) Than why do PostScript-based applications take up so much RAM and CPU power? Consider Adobe's own Acrobat Reader, which is built around the Bravo imaging engine, not even a full PostScript implementation: that requires 4.5MB of RAM to run. I think Eric King has reported some experiments with converting PDF files to GX Portable Digital Documents, and using one of the several available GX PDD viewers to view the results. Not only was the GX software faster, but it also used a fraction of the RAM (even including the full system overhead of GX itself)! >> >And keeping in mind which came first, it'd be better to say that QDGX is >> >like DPS, rather than the other way around. >> >> GX is nothing like PostScript: >> * No programming-language overhead. > >or flexibility. GX offers you more flexibility than PostScript does. It offers a high-quality, publicly-documented graphics interchange format that is *fully-editable* at the object level. It is easy to perform operations like extraction and compositing of selected pages from GX print files. The GX printing process can be customized in ways that PostScript has never heard of. >> * Much more efficient graphics engine. > >partly because it only handls quadric curves. Ah, the old quadratic-versus-cubic snobbery rears its head again. What is it that makes cubics superior, exactly, besides the fact that it takes more CPU power to render them? :) >> * Next-generating printing architecture that gives full-quality output >> on both PostScript and non-PostScript printers. > >Software RIPs can (and are) used quite successfully with >non-PostScript printers. How much do these RIPs cost, compared to the price of a decent-quality, non-PostScript printer? >> * Completely font-format-neutral: supports Type 1 and TrueType fonts >> (and whatever future font formats people might come up with) on an >> absolutely equal basis. > >PostScript handles Type 42 (TrueType) fonts quite successfully. I don't think this is a standard PostScript feature: it works with Apple's printers and some others, but not necessarily all of them. For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 19:26:15 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801971926160001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <5afitj$g0b@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-0201972152300001@shiva1-mclean-252.his.com> <32CD55D8.1429@mathtype.com> In article <32CD55D8.1429@mathtype.com>, jimk@mathtype.com wrote: >------------A6B386F47191 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Rick Zeman wrote: > >> And it's really nice sending complex Postscript jobs to the printer. I've >> never seen it gag because it didn't have enough memory as QuickDraw GX is >> smart enough to just download the glyphs that are used instead of the >> entire font. > >Which is part of the problem. QuickDraw GX blocks developers from >writing native PostScript code that uses fonts because you never know > what characters will be available or what order they will be >in. This shows a complete misunderstanding of the right way to do things. GX offers *more* ways to customize the printing process than old QuickDraw ever did (among other things, yes, you can embed your own PostScript code, no problem). Not only that, it offers an explicit API call specifically for streaming a font, with options to convert it to PostScript format, reencode it, subset it, or whatever else you may want to do. This is a *much* cleaner way of doing things than trying to trick the printer driver into downloading the right font for you. >...but as it is GX blows out of the water any program that tried to get >around the deficiencies in the >former QuickDraw scheme (such as a 72dpi grid). Precisely. Tell your vendor that there *is* a better, cleaner, less future-fragile way of doing things, instead of having to come up with new tricks for every new version of the LaserWriter 8 driver. For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 03:33:16 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf-ya023580000801970333160001@news.tiac.net> References: <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86>, "Dale Friesen" <dalef@bolen.bc.ca> wrote: > Please pardon my ignorance, but since NeXT runs on different CPUs is it > necessary to recompile for each? Yes, but its a single run throught the compiler and linker. > Or are the APIs fairly high level such > that you can write something for NeXT, drop it on a CD-ROM and anyone > running the OS (regardless of hardware) can use it? Well, if its source, everyone can build it. If its a fat app, from that run discussed above, everyone can run it. > If the latter, will > this include the Mac running Rhapsody (the NeXT-based MacOS)? That's the idea. After it its been modified as required by further Apple changes. Barney
From: cj434@freenet.carleton.ca (Richard K Bethell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 06:53:03 GMT Organization: The Printing House Sender: cj434@freenet.carleton.ca (Richard K Bethell) Message-ID: <01bbfd30$5225d810$ac897586@richard> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.annex5.nwlink.com> <ldo-0401972216470001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <p.kerr-0801970924300001@news.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Kerr <p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz> wrote in article <p.kerr-0801970924300001@news.auckland.ac.nz>... > In article <ldo-0701972055440001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, > ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > > > In article <5al8vg$fke@news3.digex.net>, jkheit@cnj.digex.net wrote: > > > Furthermore... I've had no problems > > >printing from DPS Level 2 to a level 1 printer. It just works. > > > > Wow. Let me get this straight--if you have a PostScript program that > > creates a dictionary with a maxlength of six, and tries to put seven > > things into it, and send that to a Level 1 printer, then it will magically > > work fine, just because you've got Display PostScript on your desktop? > > That must be the amazing PostScript laundering engine that seems to be > embedded in NextStep. Now if Apple has bought and intends bundling it in > the MacOS I just can't wait to get my hands on it :-) > > Maybe Steve Jobs should have gone to work for Adobe... > > > > > > >Sill limitations like actually printing w/o problems... > > > > The problems have been ongoing with the old QuickDraw printing > > architecture. Every time some major revision of a driver came out, > > applications would break left and right. > > Is this a problem with QD? or with DOS minded programmers who > couldn't/wouldn't follow Apple's API guidelines? > Can you entirely blame them? It's not like Adobe's going to give up the Windows market for say, PageMaker, for no reason other than to bow down to the Gods of QuickDraw! -- Richard Bethell * cj434@freenet.carleton.ca * rbethell@magi.com * rbethell@tph.ca "All warfare is based on deception" - Suntzu, "The Art of War" Visit my PostScript page at http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~cj434
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:30:23 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801972130240001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5arhch$79b@bignews.shef.ac.uk> In article <5arhch$79b@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> wrote: >On 01/04/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: >> Trouble is, GX solves a great number of real problems that both Mac users >> and developers have been moaning about for years. It offers a powerful, >> customizable next-generation architecture that the Mac desperately needs. >> >> For instance, it seems hardly a week goes by without somebody asking, on >> some newsgroup I frequent, how they can print just the even or odd pages >> from a document, so they can get double-sided output on a single-sided >> printer. This is the kind of feature that logically belongs in-between the >> printer driver and the application, since it is useful across different >> printer drivers and across different applications. GX provides the concept >> of "printing extensions" that allow third-party add-ons to supply this >> sort of feature in a clean, well-behaved way. Like my Duplex Helper >> >Umm, as I've pointed out elsewhere, an application to do just this for >PostScript documents was developed by Gideon Tearle back in 1992.. Doesn't this depend on the PostScript conforming to Adobe's Document Structuring Conventions, which in fact few PostScript files do? There was a thread discussing this sort of thing on comp.lang.postscript a few weeks back, and many techniques based on creative redefinitions of the "showpage" operator were proposed. Trouble is, none of them would work reliably in all situations. For information about QuickDraw GX, including the next-generation printing architecture that supports this sort of customizability across both PostScript *and* non-PostScript printers, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:27:05 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801972127060001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32d11e58.2884009@news.inlink.com> In article <32d11e58.2884009@news.inlink.com>, sschaper@inlink.com wrote: >On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 21:58:34 +1300, ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence >DčOliveiro) wrote: > >>Trouble is, GX solves a great number of real problems that both Mac users >>and developers have been moaning about for years. It offers a powerful, >>customizable next-generation architecture that the Mac desperately needs. > >Trouble is, GX is such a pain that most MacOS users don't install it, >or if they do, they soon disinstall it. It is a memory hog, it causes >compatibility problems, it alters fonts, it crashes the machine. It is not nearly as big a memory hog as PostScript. GX offers more features than PostScript does, and does so faster and using less RAM. Compatibility problems are mostly due to the limitations of the old QuickDraw printing architecture, not necessarily GX itself (this has been discussed in other postings). It *doesn't* alter fonts. Type 1 fonts are repackaged so that you no longer have to worry about "printer" fonts versus "screen" fonts--this is something Adobe and Apple should have done a long time ago. The new packaging is supported by ATM 3.8 and later, and LaserWriter 8.4 and later--it is not GX-specific by any means. Crashing the machine--since when? For more info about the next-generation graphics and printing architecture that is QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 12:30:13 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Cc: ldo@waikato.ac.nz In <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > In article <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net>, pfd@ziplink.net wrote: [...] > Than why do PostScript-based applications take up so much RAM and CPU > power? Consider Adobe's own Acrobat Reader, which is built around the > Bravo imaging engine, not even a full PostScript implementation: that > requires 4.5MB of RAM to run. It's so obvious: If you view a PostScript file on a GX based machine you need to convert from the PS display model to the GX display model. That takes time. It would be (theoretically) just as slow to view a GX file on a DPS based machine. If you take a PS file, have it interpreted by some software and have that software display the results using a different drawing model it *must* be slower. If you piped the PS file to the DPS display directly it would be much faster, probable not slower than a similar GX file. You can only compare the rendering times using the appropriate generic file formats. View a file containing native GX objects on a Mac, then view a PostScript file that gives the same optical output result on a DPS machine. Besides, the discussion is moot since Apple has already decided to use DPS and add GX compatibility. Volker
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep From: ffiona mosford@newi.ac.uk (ffiona mosford) Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Message-ID: <E3ow90.Gow@exeter.ac.uk> Sender: news@exeter.ac.uk (news admin) Organization: North East Wales Institute References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <nervous-0601970107590001@ascend25.netrover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Distribution: inet Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:34:11 GMT In article <nervous-0601970107590001@ascend25.netrover.com>, nervous@system.net says... > >In article <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no>, lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: > >Robert Iacullo writes: >: jmiller wrote: >: > >: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: >: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) >: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > >: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > > Where can I buy one? > Cheers... > >Go to > >http://www.exp.com > >and place your order. They will be demonstrating the X704 at MacWorld. > >Or, if you can't get one yet, you can always go for a quad-604e @ 200Mhz >UMAX system. (That's four 604e each @ 200Mhz.) > >What was your Intel at? 200Mhz? Hahahaha... > >-- >GO Mac GO!!!
From: jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Price reduction for OPENSTEP? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 03:48:17 -0500 Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Message-ID: <jbf-ya023580000801970348170001@news.tiac.net> References: <32D28130.2659@erols.com> <5avbmn$qj@crl.crl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5avbmn$qj@crl.crl.com>, mcgredo@crl.com (Donald R. McGregor) wrote: > In article <32D28130.2659@erols.com>, <gbh@erols.com> wrote: > >Has there been any word yet on whether there would > >be a price reduction for OPENSTEP? > The presenter at the NeXT demo at MacWorld was emphatic that > there would be no change in the price structure of anything, > for now. That might change at some indefinite time in the > future. As I feared. "Enterprise" concepts still reign. > I was disappointed with the NeXT presentation, btw. They > were doing a canned WebObjects demo. they should be pitching > the IB/Obj-C/AppKit environment to developers, which is THE > critical market for the architecture changeover. A year from now perhaps. Meanwhile, let's push those "enterprise tools" at "enterprise prices". Barney
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:53:05 +1300 Organization: Geek Central Sender: ldo@waikato.ac.nz Message-ID: <ldo-0801972153050001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <ct207-0301971033150001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk> In article <ct207-0301971033150001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk>, ct207@cam.ac.uk (Constantin Teleman) wrote: >In article <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, >ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > >> Unfortunately, PostScript printers have never been, and never will be, the >> norm. I estimate they account for less than 6% of the current printer >> market, and this share is dwindling. > > But they probably account for nearly 100% of the *quality* printer >market... In case you hadn't noticed, "PostScript" is no longer synonymous with "quality". PostScript and non-PostScript printers are built around the same imaging engines, except that the PostScript versions might cost US$150 or more extra. >... and it's pointless to debate the merits of advanced imaging >technologies when talking about cheap inkjets. Why not? That's the beauty of GX--that it *can* give you such high-quality imaging on such low-cost hardware. Those cheap inkjets are pretty damn good--which is why they now account for 80% of the printer market, and still growing. The laser vendors are being backed into a corner, and PostScript along with them. Even Adobe now sees the writing on the wall, which is why it came out with PrintGear. >If PS rasterization is built into the operating system, you won't >need a PS printer to print a PS file (though it will be faster). You don't need PostScript rasterization to be built into the system for this--all you need is one tool for converting PostScript to fully-editable GX format, then you are free of the overheads and constraints of PostScript from that point on. Have a look at gxMaker <http://members.aol.com/ArtAge/index.html>. Also I've heard that Apple includes a PostScript-to-GX translator in their special publishing package that is currently only available in the Chinese market. >By the way, printing QuickDraw on a PS printer *will* slow down your >machine, while it converts QD to PS. Well, it's better than slowing your machine down every time it draws on the screen using Display PostScript, isn't it? :) >> I've got news for you: you probably already have several GX printers about >> the place! Remember, every PostScript printer is a GX printer. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > What on earth could you mean by that? Are you implying that GX is a >subset of PostScript? (It's not.) No, the GX graphics model is, in nearly every respect, a superset of the Postcript one. > Will any PostScript printer understand downloaded GX commands? (They won't.) Yes they will! Remember, unlike PostScript, GX is not a glorified printer-control language, it is a full graphics and printing architecture. The printing architecture includes support for things called "printer drivers", that translate GX graphics into printer-specific commands to put marks on the page. GX includes in-built support for three main classes of printers: raster ("dumb"), vector (plotter) and PostScript. In particular, it provides common code for handling many of the common imaging tasks specific to these classes of printers. For PostScript, this includes a powerful GX-to-PostScript translator that takes care of common PostScript headaches like splitting of complex paths, loading fonts, managing printer memory usage and so on. The result is that writing a printer driver for QuickDraw GX is *much* easier than for any other printing architecture. >You seem to equate "is a GX >printer" with "there is a GX-aware driver for it". These are NOT the >same things. Most people would disagree. After all, in the Mac world, it has been common for a long time to talk about "PostScript" printers versus "QuickDraw" printers (basically, everything that wasn't "PostScript"). And when my StyleWriter was first released in 1991, it was labelled a "TrueType" printer! The implication of the poster who used the term "GX printer" was somehow to insinuate that you had to buy all-new printers to take advantage of the features of GX. This is NOT true--GX works out of the box with existing PostScript printers, and a lot of others besides. For more info about the next-generation graphics and printing architecture that is QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>.
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 12:43:19 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Cc: ldo@waikato.ac.nz In <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: [...] > >>I don't think Display PostScript was ever capable of running on such > >>hardware. :-) > > > > Well, it did run fine on a 25 MHz '030, since that was the > original NeXT > >processor. > > Except the machines I mentioned in my posting were a Mac IIcx and an > SE/30, each with a 16MHz 68030 and 8MB of RAM! The NeXT Cube shipped with 8MB of RAM standard. 25 MHz 68030. OO GUI, UNIX and 1120x832 pixel display. And it always appeared quite quick, compared to similarly equipped Apple, Sun, or IBM machines. Unless, of course, you ran it exclusively from the optical media, which was rather slow. I guess it would have done quite acceptably even at 16 MHz. Volker
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 13:07:00 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b065k$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Cc: rex@mit.edu In <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Eric King wrote: > In article <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, mmalcolm crawford > <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> wrote: [...] > )The NeXTDimension certainly allowed direct video playback (PAL and NTSC) in > )1991/2, including the ability to rescale the window, chop bits out of it > )whilst it was running, spray on paint, words etc. > > I could be wrong, but it's my guess that this was probably not handled > by the i860 onboard. There were and are many video chipsets that support > real-time video scaling and overlays. You are wrong. I had an ND board in my cube and know some of its internal workings, both from the documentation and from analyzing the board itself. The i860 ran the PS RIP and did live processing on video streams. You could apply transformations to a live video feed and pipe the output to a VCR, for example. Transformations included, but weren't limited to, gamma correction (note: this was on a 32 bit display, so no games played here with modifying CLUTs.), resizing, color replacement, modifying saturation etc. That was what was supported by the trivial demo application that came with the board (actually with every NeXT). I am sure you could have had more. There was an objective-C class called NXLiveCameraView or NXLiveVideoView or so. I would have to look up the methods that applied but I don't have it on line. Volker
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:29:50 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E3ow1q.5M7@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> In article <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> writes: > mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: > > >Umm, well... one of the demos which apparently wowed AppLE engineers was > >five > >NEXTIME videos running simultaneously... > > > > Hehehehehe. One of the allegedly "wowed" Apple engineers commented on > semper-fi that such demos are bogus. They showed a simple Cinepak movie > with non-compressed sound. I don't think this demo wow's anyone who's technically clued up. All it demonstrates is that the OS can multitask relativly efficiently. The efficiency of the codecs isn't really that releant to the impact of the demo - on a Mac you can only have one running at a time. If you select another, then the first one stops. On NeXT that all run at the same time - even if they slowed down, or droped frames it would still be impresive to Mac users. I don't think NeXT would have chosen this demo, or certainlly wouldn't be pushing it as hard if it wasn't for Be. Running multiple movies is about ALL Be can do, yet it was enough to convince the natives that Be was the greatest. NeXT are simply illustrating that anything Be can do, they can do just as well. $an $an
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:23:12 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E3ovqp.5L9@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86> In article <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86> "Dale Friesen" <dalef@bolen.bc.ca> writes: > Please pardon my ignorance, but since NeXT runs on different CPUs is it > necessary to recompile for each? Or are the APIs fairly high level such > that you can write something for NeXT, drop it on a CD-ROM and anyone > running the OS (regardless of hardware) can use it? If the latter, will > this include the Mac running Rhapsody (the NeXT-based MacOS)? You have to complile it for all architectures. However the work involved in doing this is literally ticking a box to say "I'd like this to run on X". Provided you haven't dont anything stupid then it just works (in fact it works too well - NeXT recently released Developer tools for HP ACCIDENTALLY. The box was ticked, so it got build and put on the CD, even though it officially doesn't exist). All apps generally can run on all architectures, even if the developer has never seen an HP or a Sparc running NeXTStep. Existing apps won't run on PPC because there's no tick box yet, but once it's there then it should be a matter of ticking the box, and it will go. There's no reason why Apps for PPC should not start apearing BEFORE the OS does, if NeXT release OPENSTEP 4.2 for 68K, Intel and Sparc with a PPC compiler!. Of course how this applies to Rhapsody is anyones guess, but provided Apple don't take the technology out, or change things for the sake of it, then it should work great. The cross-platform stuff is truly excellent, and it would be crazy to break it - but then I wouldn't put it past them. $an
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can beat shity Petium Date: 8 Jan 1997 14:10:17 GMT Organization: Central Nervous System Distribution: inet Message-ID: <nervous-0801970910500001@ascend3.netrover.com> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <32D20D7C.C75@rogerswave.ca> <edodge-0701972222360001@ip-pdx19-23.teleport.com> In article <edodge-0701972222360001@ip-pdx19-23.teleport.com>, edodge@teleport.com (Edward Dodge) wrote: In article <32D20D7C.C75@rogerswave.ca>, jmiller@rogerswave.ca wrote: > Lasse Olsen wrote: > > : They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > > Where can I buy one? > > Cheers... > The 533Mhz isn't out yet but you can buy a 225Mhz TODAY. Can buy a 250Mhz today as well, I think. I wonder where the 250Mhz PPro is? You can get a 300Mhz 603e as well. Even multiprocessor 604e-based computers. -- rhapsody: rhap.so.dy \'rap-s*d-e-\ n recitation of selections from epic poetry; a highly emotional utterance or literary work; RAPTURE, ECSTASY; the new Macintosh OS.
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 8 Jan 1997 14:15:08 GMT Organization: Central Nervous System Message-ID: <nervous-0801970915410001@ascend3.netrover.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <32d24cc7.0@cisun2000.unil.ch> In article <32d24cc7.0@cisun2000.unil.ch>, Sean.Hill@iphysiol.unil.ch wrote: dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp (John De Hoog) wrote: > It seems to work for most people most of the time. MacStep will have > to work better. For example: better multitasking performance than is > now available with Windows NT on two Pentium Pros. > I run Win NT4.0 and OpenStep 4.0 on the same hardware. OpenStep is much snappier. People are going to like this. What else can you tell us when comparing the two? -- rhapsody: rhap.so.dy \'rap-s*d-e-\ n recitation of selections from epic poetry; a highly emotional utterance or literary work; RAPTURE, ECSTASY; the new Macintosh OS.
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 09:44:08 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000801970944080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b065k$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5b065k$2s2@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: )I had an ND board in my cube and know some of its internal workings, both )from the documentation and from analyzing the board itself. )The i860 ran the PS RIP and did live processing on video streams. You could )apply transformations to a live video feed and pipe the output to a VCR, for )example. Now that is interesting. Having the i860 run the RIP makes a lot of sense but it doesn't really make sense for it to do scaling as well. (Other transformations yes, but scaling no.) Overlays it's probably a toss up as to which would be better a dedicated video chip or the i860. The i860 if it was freed from scaling and overlay 'grunge' work could have been used for some pretty powerful video processing effects. Or acting as a RenderMan accelerator. (Was it used in that capacity too?) )Transformations included, but weren't limited to, gamma correction (note: )this was on a 32 bit display, so no games played here with modifying CLUTs.), )resizing, color replacement, modifying saturation etc. That was what was )supported by the trivial demo application that came with the board (actually )with every NeXT). I am sure you could have had more. Sounds very much like the hardware in the AV Macs. Was any interesting software ever written to take advantage of the ND boards? -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: mandtbac@news.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: 8 Jan 1997 14:12:52 GMT Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc. Distribution: comp Message-ID: <5b0a14$ke8@josie.abo.fi> References: <01bbf85d$f43ce8a0$5d13acce@chu.ipoline.com> <pxpst2-0201971310460001@path01.pathology.pitt.edu> <32D26E79.4D60@freenet.npiec.on.ca> (followups severely trimmed) Marc Nagy, in <32D26E79.4D60@freenet.npiec.on.ca>: >Well, I'm in computer science at university and we use PowerPCs and >Codewarrior software for JAVA programming. >At home, I use a Pentium and my machine at home does circles around the >PowerlessPC's at school as far as compiling time. you're in CS, and you don't see the fallacy of that argument? for all you've told us here, might be the PPC's compiler spends time trying to optimize its output while the pentium counterpart maybe doesn't. what about *run* times? -- "...Everybody got this broken feeling like their father or their dog just died..." - Leonard Cohen
From: ab@purdue.edu (Allen Braunsdorf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep (NeXTStep?) for Sparc Date: 8 Jan 1997 15:31:16 GMT Organization: Purdue University Message-ID: <5b0ek4$g43@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> References: <32D2CA00.63DE@ldp.com> Rolfe Tessem <rolfe@ldp.com> wrote: >Where can I purchase a copy, and where can I find out exactly which >Sparc platforms it runs on? That depends whether you want to run OPENSTEP (over Solaris) or NEXTSTEP. Check Sun's web pages for the former, NeXT's for the latter. I'm running NEXTSTEP 3.3 on a Tatung clone of a SparcStation 5/85 with a CG3 graphics card (I had to patch the CG6 driver myself to get it to work right), and it's great. Runs about four times faster than our Turbos, is color, and has more screen real-estate. I love it to death. I hear OPENSTEP over Solaris is a big resource hog, and it is Solaris :-), but it's probably a lot better than using X stuff on Solaris. If you're already running Solaris (we're a SunOS shop), check out the demo you can download from Sun. I haven't, so that's all I know. ab
From: narendra@shiva.nrl.navy.mil (Narendra Batra) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help : Adding another Hard Drive Date: 8 Jan 1997 15:45:01 GMT Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC Message-ID: <5b0fdt$ppc$1@ra.nrl.navy.mil> At present I have a an IBM clone Pentium 90 multimedia( 1Gb HD Scsi Fujitsu, 48Mb Ram). I had partitioned it, 600 Mb for next step and 400 Mb for windows 95 and applications. Everything works fine and has worked fine for 2 years. Now I want to (1) add another SCSI hard drive 2.1 Gb Seagate and use this newly added hard disk exclusively for windows and also make this as a boot drive ( i.e. SCSI ID 00) and want to transfer all the windows data ( about 339 Mb) from Fujitsu to it. (2) Use Fujitsu 1GB ( SCSI ID 01) only for next step, i.e. remove the DOS partition without losing the existing next step data. By the way I am using NCR SCSI -2 card which works fine for Next step. If any one has experience in doing the above, I would greatly appreciate their input. Thanks a lot for your assistance and input to avoid pitfalls in modifying my hardware. Thanks a lot for your input. Sincerely , Narendra
From: far@ix.netcom.com(Felipe A. Rodriguez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Price reduction for OPENSTEP? Date: 8 Jan 1997 16:03:06 GMT Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <5b0gfq$j03@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <jbf-ya023580000801970348170001@news.tiac.net> In article <jbf-ya023580000801970348170001@news.tiac.net> jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) writes: >In article <5avbmn$qj@crl.crl.com>, mcgredo@crl.com (Donald R. McGregor) wrote: > >> In article <32D28130.2659@erols.com>, <gbh@erols.com> wrote: >> >Has there been any word yet on whether there would >> >be a price reduction for OPENSTEP? > >> The presenter at the NeXT demo at MacWorld was emphatic that >> there would be no change in the price structure of anything, >> for now. That might change at some indefinite time in the >> future. > >As I feared. "Enterprise" concepts still reign. > Having read the comments of Apple's CFO saying that NeXT was expected to be profitable in the March quarter I fully expected that the pricing would remain in the stratosphere. I really was hoping to be wrong though ;-( >> I was disappointed with the NeXT presentation, btw. They >> were doing a canned WebObjects demo. they should be pitching >> the IB/Obj-C/AppKit environment to developers, which is THE >> critical market for the architecture changeover. > >A year from now perhaps. Meanwhile, let's push those "enterprise >tools" at "enterprise prices". > >Barney I've seen this particular demo. It really is a yawn. It's no wonder NeXT was doing so badly in '96. -- Felipe A. Rodriguez # Francesco Sforza became Duke of Milan from Agoura Hills, CA # being a private citizen because he was # armed; his successors, since they avoided far@ix.netcom.com # the inconveniences of arms, became private (NeXTmail preferred) # citizens after having been dukes. (MIMEmail welcome) # --Nicolo Machiavelli
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 16:15:46 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b0h7i$3fg@www.langen.bull.de> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b065k$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> <rex-ya023080000801970944080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Cc: rex@mit.edu In <rex-ya023080000801970944080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Eric King wrote: > In article <5b065k$2s2@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de > (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: [...] > to which would be better a dedicated video chip or the i860. The i860 if it > was freed from scaling and overlay 'grunge' work could have been used for > some pretty powerful video processing effects. Or acting as a RenderMan > accelerator. (Was it used in that capacity too?) Yes, and quite impressively, if I may say so. > Sounds very much like the hardware in the AV Macs. Was any interesting > software ever written to take advantage of the ND boards? Most people used it for Renderman processing, video editing and as a general, fast color option for Cubes. Renderman didn't need any special software to be written for the ND, since it was part of the NeXTSTEP API (3DKit). It would just run about 10 times faster on an ND than on a cube. Of course, there are a lot of RIB-based 3D-Programs for NeXTSTEP. As for video editing: I never used that feature very much, so I don't know about 3rd-party SW written for video stuff. Volker
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc From: rvtaylor@netcom.com (R. Taylor) Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Message-ID: <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> Sender: rvtaylor@netcom7.netcom.com Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:19:15 GMT remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: >eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl (Eelco Houwink) wrote: > >>I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that >>Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily >>OS) sales and licensing > >Well, if that's true, they should have dug up the old System 7 port to >486's some time ago..... > >Chris Murphy Well, this news feed says that Intel is OK for Rhapsody but no existing Macs. Can this be right? ---- From EduPage Jan 7 APPLE'S CORE WAXES RHAPSODIC Apple Computer says that for the next few years it will pursue a "dual operating system" strategy, offering machines that run both its existing Macintosh System 7 operating system and its new Next-based system, code-named Rhapsody. Chief Technology Officer Ellen Hancock promised existing Mac users that support for System 7 will continue for the next several years. (Wall Street Journal 7 Jan 97 B6) The new line of machines is necessary because the Next-based system won't run on any of the existing Macs, including those using the popular Motorola 680x0 line of chips. It will, however, run on Intel-based computers now using Windows 95 and Windows NT. (Tampa Tribune 7 Jan 97 B&F8) -- rvtaylor@netcom.com
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:13:32 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> John Hornkvist wrote: > >When i worked at Apple and had access to about thousands of printers and > >normally only used 3 lasers near me, I would usually print to the one > >nearest me, but if I found that a certain print job was taking too long, I > >could open one desktop printer, find the job that was waiting to print AFTER > >the job that was taking a long time and move it to another printer so that > >it would print. So basically I was printing to two printers simultaneously. > > I don't think this is possible in the current implementation. You > do get a selection of printers to print to when you select the print > option from the application, however. > > Overall, I think most of what you want are easily integrateable > into the NEXTSTEP PrintManager. Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file without opening an application that knows how to print it. If the Mac's desktop printer supports dragging a file icon and dropping it on the desktop printer icon to print the file, that seems like a nice design. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:36:36 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-0801971238420001@news.sover.net> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> In article <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com>, dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will > get the best applications, and get them soonest? Apparently the NeXT development tools are absolutely compelling, comparatively easy to use, and (for instance) a bigwig at Id who's responsible for Quake is on record as being very interested in jumping back from NT for these tools, when it becomes available from Apple. That would mean the next Quake, 'Mac' first. Evangelist just got a massive spamlike posting which consisted of company after company, most (IMHO) significantly Adobe, raving about the decision. That indicates the Adobe heavyweights, 'Mac' first for the same reasons. What do _you_ think? Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:33:53 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b0lq1$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: > In article <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr>, mlbizer@mail.utexas.eduu (Marc > Bizer) wrote: > >In article <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, > >ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) wrote: > >>I don't think Display PostScript was ever capable of running on such > >>hardware. :-) > > Well, it did run fine on a 25 MHz '030, since that was the > original NeXT > >processor. > Except the machines I mentioned in my posting were a Mac IIcx and an > SE/30, each with a 16MHz 68030 and 8MB of RAM! Original 68030 NeXTcubes were shipped with only 8 MB of RAM as well. The difference in clock rates would have made DPS run more slowly on a 16 MHz. machine, but it would have been very usable. However, the 68030 NeXTcubes included math coprocessors which may not have been included with Mac hardware. I don't know how much DPS depends on a math coprocessor. I believe DPS optimizations may have been made that involved using integer rather than floating point math, but I could be wrong. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep From: douyang@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Darwin Ouyang) Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E3p432.J9E@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:23:26 GMT Distribution: inet References: <5aumpd$dtb@doffen.uninett.no> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <5aumpd$dtb@doffen.uninett.no>, Lasse Olsen <lolsen@hsr.no> wrote: >Darwin Ouyang writes: >: In article <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de>, >: Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?= <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> wrote: > >: >The latter can become a real nightmare for schedulers of multitasking >: >operating systems. > >: This is incorrect. > >: Because the FPU and MMX share registers, the current operating systems do >: not have to worry about saving and restoring any extra registers during a >: task switch - thus MMX has no impact on the OS scheduler at all. > > However, it has a helluva impact on FPU performance - what's > that, 70 to 100 cycles to clear the pipeline after MMX operands? Ya. I totally agree - MMX+FPU instructions together are gonna *kill* performance. But the statement was that MMX would be a "real nightmare" for OS task schedulers, which is not true. Besides, a task switch already takes an eternity in terms of processor time. ~20 usec. (?) Whats another 100 cycles to the OS scheduler. :) 0.4 usec? Darwin Ouyang
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:56:56 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5b0n58$d03@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> In-Reply-To: <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> Followups-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy (Followups trimmed) > APPLE'S CORE WAXES RHAPSODIC > Apple Computer says that for the next few years it will pursue a "dual > operating system" strategy, offering machines that run both its existing > Macintosh System 7 operating system and its new Next-based system, > code-named Rhapsody. Chief Technology Officer Ellen Hancock promised > existing Mac users that support for System 7 will continue for the next > several years. (Wall Street Journal 7 Jan 97 B6) The new line of machines > is necessary because the Next-based system won't run on any of the existing > Macs, including those using the popular Motorola 680x0 line of chips. It > will, however, run on Intel-based computers now using Windows 95 and > Windows NT. (Tampa Tribune 7 Jan 97 B&F8) > ARGH! This is appalling. Please someone get in contact with them and get the Tribune to print a retraction. The press releases state quite clearly that the new OS *will* run on existing hardware. This reporting is irresponsible, and at this stage could be quite harmful to AppLE. The final sentence is misleading to say the least -- what they actually mean is that applications written for the new OS (i.e. in OpenStep) can be recompiled for and run on Windows95 and WindowsNT without any rewrites being necessary. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: Joel Mawhorter <jmawhort@engr.UVic.CA> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:05:50 -0800 Organization: University of Victoria - Faculty of Engineering Message-ID: <32D3E1FE.41C67EA6@engr.UVic.CA> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit R. Taylor wrote: > > remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) wrote: > > >eelco_houwink@spidernet.nl (Eelco Houwink) wrote: > > > >>I think I read a quote somewhere (from Ellen Hancock?), stating that > >>Apple's goal was to generate 50% of revenues from software (primarily > >>OS) sales and licensing > > > > >Well, if that's true, they should have dug up the old System 7 port to > >486's some time ago..... > > > >Chris Murphy > > Well, this news feed says that Intel is OK for Rhapsody but no existing > Macs. Can this be right? > > ---- > From EduPage Jan 7 > > APPLE'S CORE WAXES RHAPSODIC > Apple Computer says that for the next few years it will pursue a "dual > operating system" strategy, offering machines that run both its existing > Macintosh System 7 operating system and its new Next-based system, > code-named Rhapsody. Chief Technology Officer Ellen Hancock promised > existing Mac users that support for System 7 will continue for the next > several years. (Wall Street Journal 7 Jan 97 B6) The new line of machines > is necessary because the Next-based system won't run on any of the existing > Macs, including those using the popular Motorola 680x0 line of chips. It > will, however, run on Intel-based computers now using Windows 95 and Windows > NT. (Tampa Tribune 7 Jan 97 B&F8) > > -- > rvtaylor@netcom.com This is just another ignorant reporter writing about something without doing research. Apple keeps saying that "MacStep" will run on all currently shipping Macs. Take a look at http://www.macos.apple.com/ for more details. -- Joel Mawhorter
From: mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 16:20:50 GMT Organization: The University of California at San Diego Message-ID: <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> References: <5apl3e$i15@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> William Raphael Hix (raph@porter.as.utexas.edu) wrote: : NNTP-Posting-Host: porter.as.utexas.edu : X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] : Xref: news1.ucsd.edu comp.sys.next.misc:38420 comp.sys.mac.misc:122227 comp.sys.mac.system:158739 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:124317 comp.sys.next.advocacy:42382 : Terry Wilcox (terry@arcane.com) wrote: : : I'm actually kind of impressed by this statement. It sums up the Mac : : user sentiment so concisely. : One can give reasonable explanations for the following which might or : might not be true. No one outside of NeXT-Apple will know the real : answers until these decisions have been made, based on whatever : technical or political factors are at play inside this merging process. : : : : From listening to Mac users, I've determined that: : : : : Apple didn't buy NeXT for DPS, it'll use Quickdraw GX. : QDGX vs. DPS will likely boil down to either a turf issue or a money issue. : If the license for DPS costs more than say $30 per user, DPS will not : be part of the OS because Apple will not want to give away that large a : chunk of its $100 per copy price. Likewise if the Apple folks, who : after all are in charge since they bought NeXT, have an attack of : insecurity, DPS will die since it was "not inventied here". And the NeXT engineers will go nuts screaming: "You idiots, do you know just how LONG it took to get OpenStep to work nicely with DPS? Do you REALLY want to break the ONLY native apps for your new operating system?? I thought you bought us because you wanted something which WORKED." : : Apple didn't buy NeXT for its kernel, it'll use the Copland kernel. : The Copland kernal exists and according to demo users is stable. It is : based on a later Mach kernal so it is presumed to be more advanced. If : it is as technically easy as has been suggested to migrate the OpenStep : application model, drivers, etc. to this kernal, using the Copland : kernal will allow the Apple OS people to save a lot of face. So this : will likely happen unless it is too technically difficult. Kernel updates are necessary only so far as they provide good performance and high speed support for new hardware. I bet the first kernel will be Mach because it works. In the future, probably a newer kernel. : This will be MacOS 8, not NextStep 5. To assuage the fears and uncertainties : of the non-technical folks who dominate Apple's customers, there will be : a file management tool which looks and acts very much like the MacOS 7 : finder. Hopefully this will not be the only choice (I actually like CLI : for some purposes) or at least its appearance will be customizable, but : I don't see how Apple can ship an OS which does not allow the bulk of : its loyal user base to have a screen that looks much like MacOS 7, : menu at the top with the multi colored Apple and all. And what about the NON loyal user base? You know, those people who didn't buy Macs and got Apple to where it is now?? Apple had a hit when it broke from the past, and made something radically better than its predecessors. mbk
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:47:30 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0801971347300001@199.166.204.230> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > The NeXT Cube shipped with 8MB of RAM standard. 25 MHz 68030. OO GUI, UNIX > and 1120x832 pixel display. And it always appeared quite quick, compared to > similarly equipped Apple, Sun, or IBM machines. Unless, of course, you ran it > exclusively from the optical media, which was rather slow. So, can we go back to it? Apple's still selling Math chips for a significant number of it's older 030 and 040LC machines. Would a new ROM and perhaps some RAM (for smaller machines) do the trick for machines with xxx amount of drive space? Why ISN'T Apple making an 68k version of the OS? It would seem to me that a PPC/PCI version is OK, but another for the 68k machines would kick ass. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:49:12 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0801971349120001@199.166.204.230> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b065k$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> <rex-ya023080000801970944080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b0h7i$3fg@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b0h7i$3fg@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > Most people used it for Renderman processing, video editing and as a general, > fast color option for Cubes Oh man, that's something I forgot about: NeXTStep Macs means new versions of RenderMan on the Mac again! Phew! Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:45:15 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0801971345150001@199.166.204.230> References: <remedies-0501972357290001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5auvdq$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu> In article <5auvdq$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: > : DPS. It's a lot easier for the VERY small numbers of NeXT application to > : need re-writing to work with GX. Not if you provide GX-like wrappers for OOPS over DPS, then you get both for the price of neither. > The point of Nextstep is to get a *WORKING* *STABLE* *GOOD* operating system > *NOW*. Screwing around with working parts of Nextstep is NOT a smart > idea. Ship first, then start worrying about the Nextstep part of things. Yup. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:41:41 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0801971341410001@199.166.204.230> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > QT 2.5 on 7.5 can do that also. MP support brought preemptive threading > on PowerMacs. Yes, at the expense of a CPU doing process switching. That's no solution, only SMP is. > For enormous expense, admittedly though processor speed has increased > enough now that all one would probably need is an 8500 level computer to > duplicate its functionality. But to get effects like wipes, dissolves, > geometric transformations, etc. going in real-time you'll need a very > optimized software architecture. Mmm. > I did not say that there couldn't be any DPS video editing apps, I said > there weren't any real-time video editing apps. Big difference. MovieClips > lets you see fades and wipes happening in real-time, no need to render a > preview clip like in Premiere. Real-time video effects using CPU power > alone are only now just becoming possible. Well let's hope that the TriMedia helps here too. Maury
From: angus@harlequin.com (Angus Duggan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 08 Jan 1997 19:10:30 GMT Organization: Harlequin Inc, Menlo Park, CA, USA Message-ID: <ANGUS.97Jan8111030@meteor.harlequin.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In-reply-to: ldo@waikato.ac.nz's message of Wed, 08 Jan 1997 21:22:41 +1300 In article <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence DčOliveiro) writes: >>PostScript handles Type 42 (TrueType) fonts quite successfully. > >I don't think this is a standard PostScript feature: it works with Apple's >printers and some others, but not necessarily all of them. It is a standard feature from revision 2015 or 2016 or somesuch onwards. >For more info about QuickDraw GX, visit <http://www.gxfanclub.com/>. For goodness sake, Lawrence, we all know you like QuickDraw GX and despise PostScript. However, this is a *PostScript* newsgroup, not a QuickDraw GX newsgroup. If you want to tout QD GX over PostScript, find or create an advocacy newsgroup. a. -- Angus Duggan, Harlequin Inc, 301 Ravenswood Ave, | PSUtils 1.16 selects, n-up, Suite 100, Menlo Park, CA 94025, U.S.A. | booklet & more. Anon ftp from http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/ajcd/psutils/ | ftp.dcs.ed.ac.uk:pub/ajcd http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ajcd/psutils/ | ftp.tardis.ed.ac.uk:users/ajcd
From: Sumair Mitroo <sumair@macroi.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Cable for NeXT cube Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:16:05 -0500 Organization: CISNet, Inc. Message-ID: <32D3F275.1FBF@macroi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Needed for a NeXT 040 Cube: I have a defective cable (which goes between the monitor and the cube). I am interested in purchasing this cable if anyone out there has one. Sumair Tel. 330-399-1990 sumair@macroi.com
From: heller@altoetting.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Matrox MGA Mystic supported on NS3.3?? Date: 7 Jan 1997 17:13:57 GMT Organization: Camelot Online Services Distribution: world Message-ID: <5au08l$p4l@lancelot.camelot.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Keywords: matrox, gateway, driver?? Hello, My wife intends to buy a PC and I want to run NS on it. She is looking into a Gateway2000 Pentium 133MHz machine with a Matrox MGA Mystic (2MB SGRAM) graphics card. I have the following questions: 1) is the Matrox MGA Mystic (2MB SGRAM) graphics card supported by NS3.3 (resolution of 1280*1024*75hz intended)? 2) any comments on buying a gateway200 computer? please, if possible, answer by e-mail to heller@altoetting.de Thanks a lot in advance Helmut -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@altoetting.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
From: tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu (Robert Tan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Rhapsody viruses Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:53:09 -0600 Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham Message-ID: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought Nextstep is immune to virus infections. -- Robert K.-Z. Tan -- E-mail: tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu -- Phone: (205)934-0580
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 12:27:02 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> In article <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de>, KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) wrote: >Frank <chu@ipoline.com> writes: >>Mhz means nothing! Even my US.Robotics modem's DSP chip runs at 90mhz >>and some specialized DSPs run at several times more than that, but can >>they run my computer?!?! The Exponential PPC chip has only about 1 >>million transistor count and that is about the same amount of a 486!!! >>How can you expect it to out run a lowly Pentium 133 with 3 million >>transistors!!! > >They do it with better design. For example, PPCs do not >sacrifice tons of transistors to emulate an outdated and long >bygone CPU with 16 bit registers and an obsolete memory >addressing model. For example, PPCs do not have to shift >operands from register to register because certain instructions >require their operands in certain registers. For example, PPCs >do not have to access memory as often as Pentiums, because they >have a decent number of general purpose registers. > Having less register is not that bad, simply because the data cache will be used as extending them. If you load a variable in a register to use it, or on cisc indirecly adresse it the result can be the same. And all the 16bit shit can be forgoten at a programer level... >All this results in quite impressive performance. The highly I dont think you get even 2x the performance from what you outlined. bigger L1 & L2 cache, and better memory system make a bigger speed diference in the end. >respected german c't magazine ("c't - Magazin fuer >Computertechnik, Heise publishing, Hannover") has benchmarked >old Pentium processors against new MMX pentium processors using >specialized, supposedly MMX friendly tasks relating with image >processing. They also used special MMX optimized machine code >for the MMX processors to make sure the new MMX chips run at >optimal performance. > >Among the field of tested machines they also had a PPC based >untuned Apple from the same price range as the Pentium machines >tested for comparison. This PPC ran the same tests using normal >machine generated native machine code. c't found that MMX can >substantially improve the throughput of a Pentium for certain >well optimized, very specialized applications. But the PPC was >just as fast to substantially faster than the MMX for all cases >tested by c't with normal, unoptimized code and without MMX >extensions, which are not available for PPC yet. So the >conclusion is that MMX fixes some special cases where the >Pentium is broken by design, while the PPCs design is generally >right. > Not broken... MMX is for 'integer' work, and the x86 is not that horrible for integer work... what MMX do is work with data array, and I dont think any CPU untill very recently offer this. can a PPC multiply 8 value and clip each individual result in 1 cycle? >c't also found that the memory interface of the PPC machine was >very unoptimized compared to the Pentium PCs tested and that >quite impressive acceleration of PPCs would be possible if the >PPC board had a similarly effective memory interface as the >Pentium processors. This is not a matter of processor design, >but addresses board designer issues instead. So another >conclusion of the test was that while the PPC was outrunning >the Intel machines in the test, it still was not running at >full speed due to the comparatively lame memory interface. > Everyone knows Mac/Apple are terrible at making computer... >c't suggested that the PPC people also introduced MMX >extensions to the PPC, but merely for marketing reasons: there >is no technical need to screw up a nice, expandable and working >design for some seldomly used special purpose application. > Wonder why they included an FPU in there.... Consider the MMX stuff as DPU (Data processing unit). I would suggest tho that if PPC add on on chip DPU that they dont follow the MMX design. >Please note that these tests conducted by c't were using fixed >point or integer arithmetics - things that the MMX extensions >are supposedly specialized for. If the comparison had been made >with FPU using applications, the Intels would have lost even >higher due to their notoriously abysmal floating point >performance. > MMX are used mainly for precessing the data, I dont even think you can create a loop with mmx instructions. >Please also note that Intels cannot combine MMX applications >with FPU applications, because access to the FPU blocks the >data path to the MMX extension hardware on the chip. This is >true when switching between MMX and FPU within the same >application, but it is also true when multitasking between pure >MMX and pure FPU applications. The latter can become a real >nightmare for schedulers of multitasking operating systems. > The MMX instruction set use the FPU registers, so old OS wont break running x86 binary with MMX instruction. Scheduler actually dont care that you have an MMX then one with the FPU ... Also, usually you want to process block of data with the mmx instruction and you can almost alway find a way to not interleave FPU and mmx instruction. >>Talking about REAL performance, Alpha chip now already runs at 533mhz >>and out run PPC chip EVEN at the same clock. > >The Alpha is a very nice processor, but also a severe case of >trading memory for speed. Just compare code sizes of text and >data segments for a statically linked GNU emacs on Linux for >Intel processors, Linux for PPC and Linux for Alphas. > I did that a while back. the HP pa was the best of the risc bunch in code size. The overall best tho was handcoded 68020 in size & register usage, and the latest sas was the worse. GCC produced average x86 code. My personal felling: If motorola had put as much effort in a 68070 as intel did with their Ppro we probably would have had something totaly amazing. Stephan
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 12:39:36 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b108u$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> <5aupsh$id5@news.accessus.net> In article <5aupsh$id5@news.accessus.net>, ******** <********@********.com> wrote: >Th.Huber wrote: > >> Why CISC then ? >> >> CISC code has the option to be executed by future CPUs, which are able to do >> more and more of the complex instructions with RISC technics. >> (e.g 060 has some of these features) > > So is RISC. R2000 code is still compatible with R10000, FYI. > >> Why not RISC ? >> >> RISC code can`t be speed up by more integration onto the chips, only by > clocking >> the CPU higher and higher. > > It is far easier to implement superscalar execution pipelines with RISC > instruction set than with CISC instruction set. Most modern RISC processors > are > 4-way superscalar, while X86 is limited to 3-way superscalar execution with > Pentium Pro. We should see 8-way superscalar implemetations of RISC > architectures > pretty soon, and I believe Alpha21264 will be the first of bunch. > >> On the long run, we`ll have CPUs that run CISCcode on a RISC CPU, so it`s > really >> silly not to use CISC today. > > You have no idea of what you are talking about, so shut up. I dont agree with you rude posting.... currently risc are not very effiecient at coding instructions and in turn do less per byte. I agree that fixed size instruction is the way to go, but not having simple instructions. Risc in its current implementation will have to die out if we want more performance per instruction fetch and per cached bytes. Stephan
From: yblock@next.mc.maricopa.edu (York Block) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Questions about turbocolor Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 13:56:26 -0700 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <yblock-0801971356270001@10.phoenix-001.az.dial-access.att.net> Hi, I just got my Turbo Color. It is beatiful!!!. I have some questions for you guys: * It came without hard disk. I am thinking to buy an *internal* hard disk between 1.6 and 2.0 g. Does anyone can give an advise with this?? (Where to get it, price, speed, etc). * What kind of modem I can use with my turbo?? - I have a SupraExpress 288 Pnp for PC, a USRobotic 14.4 for Mac and a ISDN Motorola BitSURFER PRO for Mac.( I have an ISDN line ) Well those are my questions for now, but I am sure I will be asking more. ;-) Thank you for your advises!!! York P. Block ps. NeXT UI is better than Mac UI. However, a good combination of both would be even better!!! ;-)
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 12:58:24 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211> In article <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211>, carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) wrote: >In article <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org>, judas@tomtec.abg.sub.org >(Th.Huber) wrote: > >> >> RISC code can`t be speed up by more integration onto the chips, only by >clocking >> the CPU higher and higher. > >You have it exactly backwards. CISC instruction sets are more complex >and require more decode logic. This makes it harder decompose the >instruction stream into independant pieces that can be dispatched >to seperate execution units. > Risc need bigger cache, faster instruction fecth to execute the same logic. >As chip integration increases, more execution units can be added >which RISC can take advantage of in a more direct fashion. (There >are fewer dependancies between instructions, etc) > And need more bandwidth and faster/bigger cache. Having fixed size instruction is great, but this do not stop you from having more complex instruction doing more per instruction. >Take a look at the fastest CISC out there, the Pentium Pro. What >does it do? It 'preprocesses' the CISC instruction stream into a >simpler, more 'RISC' like, instruction stream which is then executed. > Thats the amazing part too me... that this actually work :) It execute 3 variable size instruction per cycle.... >How much cheaper/faster would that CPU be if it could be fed >the RISC code directly? > Humm, the code size would probably double, so you need to spend $ on bigger cache and faster memory. >Show me a CISC chip and I will show you a faster/cheaper RISC >chip. > >This don't make CISC bad, just not better. > My view is, cisc better exploit the resource at hand... risc are alot faster/cheaper to design and improve giving them the edge. Even so, like some mentioned, at one time, the Pentiumpro was THE fastest CPU on earth for integer work :) > >(I won't even bring up the point that RISC chips have high clocks >"Because they can"!) > My only concern with risc chip is their efficientcy. Not data wise tho. > >In the end it really doesn't matter. Most code is written in >a high level languge and can compile anywhere. Code that is >written against a particular CPU will be shortlived. > Yes, but it will live long enought to make sense to do it. (I mean hand written specific CPU code) >Even a CISC is no promise of long life. Code written against >8086 is _NOT_ very performal on a Pentium today. Sure it runs, but >very poorly compared to code written with that CPU in mind. > Code written for the P5 might run VERY porrly on a P6 etc... > >Advice: Write it in a high level language and re-compile as needed. > My advice... Write in the language that fit the best, and hand optimize assembly version of the critical part (If any). Most compiler today can produce code as much as 4 time slower as human rewritten code. Stephan
From: mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Followup-To: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: 8 Jan 1997 19:20:28 GMT Organization: The University of California at San Diego Message-ID: <5b0s1s$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> References: <jinx6568-0801971238420001@news.sover.net> Chris Johnson (jinx6568@sover.net) wrote: : In article <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com>, dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: : > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will : > get the best applications, and get them soonest? : Apparently the NeXT development tools are absolutely compelling, : comparatively easy to use, and (for instance) a bigwig at Id who's : responsible for Quake is on record as being very interested in jumping : back from NT for these tools, when it becomes available from Apple. Remember, you can write for OpenStep, AND run on NT. That : would mean the next Quake, 'Mac' first. Uh not quite. Quake is a real-time operating system running on Intel Pentium hardware, loaded by DOS. It has intimate knowledge of PC graphics and sound hardware. Quake tools are what ID use to design the levels and bitmaps.
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 8 Jan 1997 21:43:17 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5b14dl$48e@news.xmission.com> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu (Robert Tan) wrote: > At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus > utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought > Nextstep is immune to virus infections. NeXT software is as immune as you'd expect a UNIX to be--I've used since version 1.0 (1990 or so timeframe) and have never heard of a virus for it. Because of the UNIX permissions scheme, there's not a lot a virus _could_ do to a system...unless it acts as a trojan horse and gets super-user status. No UNIX is perfect, and security is only as good as the sysadmin's ability to configure it. So an app like Satan--which pinpoints security holes and tells you how to plug them--is probably more appropriate for NeXT systems. Note that, as shipped, there are many security holes in NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP. But nearly all of them can be plugged by properly configuring your system. Since that step isn't easy for beginners, I do see room for apps that walk the user through the process. Trojan horses and worms could possibly present problems, and once Java is thrown into the mix, that could open up new problems. (Java security isn't too bad though, so I'm not really worried about this myself.) One of the things that has protected most NEXTSTEP systems from serious attacks is that it is an obscure OS--so very few know what the holes are. Once Apple is distributing it, that's won't be so true anymore! A big contributor to the obliqueness is that NEXT machines use NetInfo for configuration info, which replaces most of the traditional UNIX flat files with a special database-- which turns out to be a big improvement. So most attackers that know how to attack UNIX machines still have to deal with all those differences, and it isn't easy to do. -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: serge.rossi@wanadoo.fr (Serge Rossi) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:40:45 +0100 Organization: Happiness is a computer called Macintosh :-) Distribution: inet Message-ID: <1997010822404556583@yellow-orl-39.wanadoo.fr> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stephan Schaem <t21@ix.netcom.com> écrivait : > Not broken... MMX is for 'integer' work, and the x86 is not that horrible > for integer work... what MMX do is work with data array, and I dont think > any CPU untill very recently offer this. can a PPC multiply 8 value and clip > each individual result in 1 cycle? Can a Pentium MMX access 8 values in memory in 1 cycle ? No ! And there is few common programs who need this kind of integer work. MMX will be very interesting for games ! -- Email : Serge.Rossi@wanadoo.fr ; Serge.Rossi@renault.fr Fidonet : 2:320/405.42 ; 2:320/109.42 First Class : Serge Rossi,Ellis Web : http://www.burpteam.home.ml.org/
From: frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 8 Jan 1997 22:15:32 GMT Organization: NO ORGANIZATION, INC. Message-ID: <5b16a4$sdo@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> Cc: tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu In <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> Robert Tan wrote: > At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus > utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought > Nextstep is immune to virus infections. > > Maybe Apple will soften the UNIXish behaviour enough to enable viruses to become a reality but methinks the real reason is to make $ :-) -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy From: Fabien_Roy@free.fdn.org Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Message-ID: <E3p89o.6K6@free.fdn.fr> Sender: news@free.fdn.fr Organization: Fabien Roy Consultant. References: <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <AEF5D929-2FF77@198.68.42.184> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:53:48 GMT "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > John C. Randolph <jcr@idiom.com> said: > > [corrections snipt] > > >Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that > >GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a > >vertical frame interval, isn't it? > > > How is DPS for animating text? > > Are there any animation applications that use DPS calls to provide > animation? > > > On the Mac, there is a GX codec for QuickTime, and Lari Software's > Electrifier uses GX byte streams over the internet to animate web pages. > > From my understanding, Bravo does NOT use a PostScript interpreter, so even > Adobe isn't happy with PostScript performance for web-page animation. > > --------------------------------------------------- > "Without a new GUI that is as innovative and ground-breaking as the > original was in its time, the Macintosh will cease to matter, and we > should all go home." -Me > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Of course it does! -- Fabien Roy --------------------------------------------------------------------- Fabien_Roy@free.fdn.org (NextMail/MIME accepted) Fabien Roy Consultant NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/EOF Consultant, SYBASE DBA 10 rue de la DEFENSE 93100 MONTREUIL, France Tel: 33 (0)1 45 28 32 23 Fax: 33 (0)1 48 55 09 90 GSM: 33 (0)6 60 46 36 83
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 16:36:52 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0801971636520001@199.166.204.230> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> In article <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > The problem is, from all that we can gather, NO Apple engineer was shown > one of these demos. They were all upper-level management, most of whom have > only been at Apple for a few months. All of whom apparently don't know a > thing about Apple technology, such as GX's multi-language capabilities, The question reamins though, can the NeXT OS do it? IE, can it push all that *real* multimedia through the system? The BeOS can. Maury
From: william@mathworks.com (William York) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep (NeXTStep?) for Sparc Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:47:47 -0500 Organization: The MathWorks, Inc., Natick, MA 01760 Message-ID: <5b186j$dcf@madmax.mathworks.com> References: <32D2CA00.63DE@ldp.com> <5b0ek4$g43@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> I've been running the Solaris version of openstep for a while and althought it in beta (and parts of it are pretty slow) it's a ver nice front end to solaris - better than fvwm or the others. If all you want is a new window manager, get bowman. if you want the editor, "right" version of the dock, the mail app, and the workspace browser, get the beta software from sun. Bill In article <5b0ek4$g43@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, Allen Braunsdorf <ab@purdue.edu> wrote: >Rolfe Tessem <rolfe@ldp.com> wrote: >>Where can I purchase a copy, and where can I find out exactly which >>Sparc platforms it runs on? > >That depends whether you want to run OPENSTEP (over Solaris) >or NEXTSTEP. Check Sun's web pages for the former, NeXT's >for the latter. > >I'm running NEXTSTEP 3.3 on a Tatung clone of a SparcStation >5/85 with a CG3 graphics card (I had to patch the CG6 driver >myself to get it to work right), and it's great. Runs about >four times faster than our Turbos, is color, and has more >screen real-estate. I love it to death. > >I hear OPENSTEP over Solaris is a big resource hog, and it >is Solaris :-), but it's probably a lot better than using >X stuff on Solaris. If you're already running Solaris >(we're a SunOS shop), check out the demo you can download >from Sun. I haven't, so that's all I know. > >ab -- William York william@mathworks.com
From: "FJ van Wingerde" <fj@medg.lcs.mit.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 8 Jan 97 17:52:20 -0500 Organization: Harvard University University Information Systems Message-ID: <AEF98F58-180F6C@134.174.31.187> References: <32D3182D.497017D7@screaming.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.harvard.edu/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.harvard.edu/comp.sys.next.advocacy Pohl Longsine wrote: > Has anybody seen any press reaction to the already-extant > application market (albeit small, but high-quality) that > Apple just bought-into? It is wierd, in a way. Lighthouse, Stone, suddenly they can expect their markets to become huger than they thought. If a full OpenStep port happens to Rhapsody (which seems very likely), suddenly the Mission Critical stuff can be deployed everywhere. Remembering what c.s.n.a was and has been over the years, this new perspective seems wierd. From a struggling, mismarketed Box->Software->API, the product has become the savior of Apple. O-kay... I suddenly have to chuckle at the thought that in a year, maybe most of the PowerMac users out there just might be running... NetInfo. Has anybody checked in with Mark Crispin to see what kinds of nightmares he's having? FJ!!
From: lark@odyssey.cognex.com (Lar Kaufman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:41:00 -0500 Organization: Cognex Corporation Message-ID: <5b17ps$rgf@odyssey.cognex.com> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> In article <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218>, Robert Tan <tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu> wrote: >At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus >utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought >Nextstep is immune to virus infections. First it is important to understand that NeXTstep is a GUI on top of a Mach microkernel. In that, it is basicly a Unix-flavored OS. Other Mach-based Unixes include OSF/1 distributions (including IBM's AIX on PowerPC, if I recall correctly--do you see a hidden advantage to Apple's going with NeXTstep?) and MkLinux, which is also being developed under Apple's wing. Of course, no OS is immune to virus infections. NeXTstep, like all Un*xes, is relatively virus-free for several good reasons: 1 Unix isn't the general playground of the juvenile mind that is the usual virus-maker. 2 Unix users are relatively knowledgeable about OSes, and Unix viruses are less likely to be redistributed in ignorance. 3 Unix flavors are of two main types: commercial and freeware. The commercial distributions are not casually bootlegged and are usually maintained by very savvy system administrators with rigorous backup and antivirus control systems. Not fertile ground for spreading viruses. The freeware Unixes (NetBSD, FreeBSD, Linux, and MkLinux mostly) are typically distributed via CDROM or by retrieval from an FTP archive, making it easy to avoid getting infected application files. 4 Unix is a multiuser OS with built-in access and privilege controls to prevent one person's processes from corrupting files owned by the system or by others, etc. To do real damage, the virus is going to have to be run with root privilege, an administrative privilege exercised by an ID not normally used for running applications or generally mucking around on the system. (Most Unix administrators don't use their root ID for general system access.) 5 Unix is an open development environment. Persons who might develop viruses on another system may find more fame and satisfaction porting an application or developing a utility or device driver instead. 6 Unix has been around 30 years, and the Mach kernel has been around nearly half that long. It's harder to munge a stable multi-user OS. Still, you can expect viruses to quickly appear on Rhapsody, especially if Apple fails to leave access for users to get "under the covers" of the OS to find out what's happening. The more users are shielded from knowing how their OS works, the more vulnerable they are (as a group) to viruses. -lar -- - Running Linux 2ed, by Matt Welsh & Lar Kaufman: O'Reilly & Assoc. 1996 -
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 16:16:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF97BE2-80ECC@198.68.42.165> References: <maury-0801971345150001@199.166.204.230> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> said: >In article <5auvdq$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) >wrote: > >> : DPS. It's a lot easier for the VERY small numbers of NeXT application to >> : need re-writing to work with GX. > > Not if you provide GX-like wrappers for OOPS over DPS, then you get both >for the price of neither. > Nyet. GX is an optimized database of graphical objects. If you put it into OOPS and have it call DPS from outside the interpreter, you're adding two layers of slowdown to something that is considerably faster than DPS. Hardly worth doing, IMHO. >> The point of Nextstep is to get a *WORKING* *STABLE* *GOOD* operating >system >> *NOW*. Screwing around with working parts of Nextstep is NOT a smart >> idea. Ship first, then start worrying about the Nextstep part of things. > Sure. But there are bound to be spare byte-codes laying around unused by the DPS interpreter. Use one of these as an escape code to allow direct calling of GX "atomic" calls via the DPS interpreter. YOu get an unmodified DPS *and* you get an optimized GX. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 16:12:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF97B0C-7DC83@198.68.42.165> References: <maury-0801971636520001@199.166.204.230> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> said: >In article <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135>, "Lawson English" ><english@primenet.com> wrote: > >> The problem is, from all that we can gather, NO Apple engineer was shown >> one of these demos. They were all upper-level management, most of whom >have >> only been at Apple for a few months. All of whom apparently don't know a >> thing about Apple technology, such as GX's multi-language capabilities, > > The question reamins though, can the NeXT OS do it? IE, can it push all >that *real* multimedia through the system? The BeOS can. Do you know something that the QT team doesn't? AFAIK, Be's demos were bogus also. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mandtbac@news.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy Date: 8 Jan 1997 23:25:28 GMT Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc. Distribution: comp Message-ID: <5b1ad8$osu@josie.abo.fi> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211> Andrew Carol, in <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211>: [...] >Even a CISC is no promise of long life. Code written against >8086 is _NOT_ very performal on a Pentium today. Sure it runs, but >very poorly compared to code written with that CPU in mind. surely you jest. comparing wall clock times between the original 8086 and the P5, the latter should still be an order of magnitude or two faster, optimal or suboptimal. -- "...it's all wrong but it's alright..." -- Clapton
From: The Central Scrutinizer <AWalkDownRealityStreet@whitehouse.gov> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:54:09 -0700 Organization: The Department of Censorship and Claptrap Message-ID: <32D31A61.5EB4@whitehouse.gov> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military > computer language >called Ada also offers interfaces). First, Ada is a piece of crap. Second, I use interfaces all the time in C++. A class is a generalization of a struct and an interface can be defined as (a) a struct of functions (all public by default) or by (b) creating an Abstract Base Class (aka class defined with pure virtual methods). Neither inheritance nor interfaces are the be-all-end-all, but some of eash is a nice way to do things. >>>>> There is nothing else in Objective C worth anything. <<<<< Not entirely different from your opinions. You have delusions of adequacy .... Go play in the street.
From: ct207@cam.ac.uk (Constantin Teleman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 23:52:12 GMT Organization: St. John's College Message-ID: <ct207-0801972354340001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <ct207-0301971033150001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk> <ldo-0801972153050001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0801972153050001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > In article <ct207-0301971033150001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk>, ct207@cam.ac.uk > (Constantin Teleman) wrote: > >In article <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, > >ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: > > > >> Unfortunately, PostScript printers have never been, and never will be, the > >> norm. I estimate they account for less than 6% of the current printer > >> market, and this share is dwindling. > > > > But they probably account for nearly 100% of the *quality* printer > >market... > > In case you hadn't noticed, "PostScript" is no longer synonymous with > "quality". [...] Indeed, I notice nothing of the kind. > >... and it's pointless to debate the merits of advanced imaging > >technologies when talking about cheap inkjets. > Why not? That's the beauty of GX--that it *can* give you such high-quality > imaging on such low-cost hardware. The limitations of output quality come from the printer, not from the imaging model, so that debate is pointless. > Those cheap inkjets are pretty damn > good--which is why they now account for 80% of the printer market, They're also cheaper, so people can afford them, and they break down more often, so people *have* to buy more of them ... :-) > >If PS rasterization is built into the operating system, you won't > >need a PS printer to print a PS file (though it will be faster). > > You don't need PostScript rasterization to be built into the system for > this--all you need is one tool for converting PostScript to fully-editable > GX format, And then rasterize the GX image. Do you notice an extra step here? By the standards you yourself have set -- that it should work on *any* PS file -- the translator would have to be a full PS interpreter. Are you sudenly suggesting this can be fast and easy? If so, why is GX necessary? > >By the way, printing QuickDraw on a PS printer *will* slow down your > >machine, while it converts QD to PS. > > Well, it's better than slowing your machine down every time it draws on > the screen using Display PostScript, isn't it? :) Other users seem to dispute this "slowdown" allegation. Can you offer some support for it ? > >> I've got news for you: you probably already have several GX printers about > >> the place! Remember, every PostScript printer is a GX printer. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > What on earth could you mean by that? Are you implying that GX is a > >subset of PostScript? (It's not.) > > No, the GX graphics model is, in nearly every respect, a superset of the > Postcript one. Which makes your previous statement false. > > Will any PostScript printer understand downloaded GX commands? (They won't.) > > Yes they will! Remember, unlike PostScript, GX is not a glorified > printer-control language, it is a full graphics and printing architecture. No they won't. See this word? / > The printing architec / ture includes support for things called "printer > drivers", that translate GX graphics into printer-specific commands to put ^^^^^^^^^ > marks on the page. Good Lord, something that does not "support printer drivers that translate commands into printer-specific commands to put marks on the page" is not capable of printing. You are saying "GX is so great, because we can print!" Well I've got some news, we've been printing along for a decade before GX came out. > GX includes in-built support for three main classes of printers: raster > ("dumb"), vector (plotter) and PostScript. In particular, it provides > common code for handling many of the common imaging tasks specific to > these classes of printers. For PostScript, this includes a powerful > GX-to-PostScript translator that takes care of common PostScript headaches > like splitting of complex paths, loading fonts, managing printer memory > usage and so on. The result is that writing a printer driver for QuickDraw > GX is *much* easier than for any other printing architecture. Could you explain why this should be so relevant to anyone except the person who is writing the driver. It's not that we need to fill our machines with all the available printer drivers. We do, however, need application support to use the GX features that go beyond basic QD. And most relevant applications do not support this manna from heaven, and show no clear intention of doing so in the future. > >You seem to equate "is a GX > >printer" with "there is a GX-aware driver for it". These are NOT the > >same things. > > Most people would disagree. After all, in the Mac world, it has been > common for a long time to talk about "PostScript" printers versus > "QuickDraw" printers (basically, everything that wasn't "PostScript"). And > when my StyleWriter was first released in 1991, it was labelled a > "TrueType" printer! And that is exactly the distinction you have failed to observe. You evidently know a lot about printing and GX, and this suggests that the misrepresentations you make are deliberate. Is there any reason for this propaganda war? cheers, constantin
From: gbh@erols.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep (NeXTStep?) for Sparc Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:13:27 -0500 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <32D44637.7BD4@erols.com> References: <32D2CA00.63DE@ldp.com> <5b0ek4$g43@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <5b186j$dcf@madmax.mathworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: William York <william@mathworks.com> > I've been running the Solaris version of openstep for a while and > althought it in beta (and parts of it are pretty slow) it's a ver nice > front end to solaris - better than fvwm or the others. > > If all you want is a new window manager, get bowman. > > if you want the editor, "right" version of the dock, the mail app, and > the workspace browser, get the beta software from sun. I've heard that binaries for Solaris will run on Linux/Sparc. Do you know if Sun's OPENSTEP/Solaris will run on Linux/Sparc? --gh
From: passenger@cybercom.net (T. Vector) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:14:46 -0400 Organization: Cyber Access Internet Services (617) 396-0491 Message-ID: <passenger-0801972014460001@mfd-dial3-25.cybercom.net> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> In article <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218>, tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu (Robert Tan) wrote: >At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus >utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought >Nextstep is immune to virus infections. > it's necessary to Symantec. that's the only Mac software they have that makes a dime. i wouldn't be too concerned about it; when's the last time you actually saw a Mac virus?
From: mroeder@macromedia.com (Michael Roeder) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 12:23:32 -0800 Organization: Macromedia, Inc. Distribution: world Message-ID: <mroeder-0801971223320001@mroeder-mac1.macromedia.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> In article <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de>, doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de wrote: > I think Apple, if they play their cards right, can take a significant > portion of the personal computer and low- to medium end workstation > markets. I just hope they don't become a virtual monopoly like Microsoft. Microsoft has become a "virtual monopoly" (nice term; I like it!) through selling both the operating system and the applications for PCompatibles. Rumor had it that Windows had bunches of secret APIs that they only told MS apps developers, enabling MS apps to run faster and better than the competition's. And you can't get the official Windows logo for your product if it competes with any of the applications in MS Office. Only if you write some application for a Market that Microsoft hasn't decided to dominate can you call it Windows-compatible. Apple writes system software. They spun off their applications software business as Claris, which has been doing very well by selling to Windows as well as Macintosh markets. So basically, you're right. And for Apple, playing the cards right means to create the best OS for personal computers and give the applications developers the chance to develop the applications. -- Michael Roeder Here's the Deal: You send me junk mail and you pay me $1500. Okay?
From: mroeder@macromedia.com (Michael Roeder) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 12:26:29 -0800 Organization: Macromedia, Inc. Message-ID: <mroeder-0801971226290001@mroeder-mac1.macromedia.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <nervous-0701972212090001@ascend22.netrover.com> In article <nervous-0701972212090001@ascend22.netrover.com>, nervous@system.net (Nervous) wrote: > In article <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com>, dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > > > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will > get the best applications, and get them soonest? > > Whichever one is easier to develop on i.e. OpenStep. That's the platform the developers would like to develop for. Unfortunately, the marketing dweebs will ask the developers to write applications for the platform they think has the biggest market. (This, of course, leaves the cool market waay open for the innovators.) -- Michael Roeder Here's the Deal: You send me junk mail and you pay me $1500. Okay?
From: nervous@system.net (Nervous) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 9 Jan 1997 01:30:33 GMT Organization: Central Nervous System Distribution: inet Message-ID: <nervous-0801972031070001@ascend3.netrover.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <E3nG0s.Gyy@novice.uwaterloo.ca> <5avm6c$v95@white.koehntopp.de> Whoever started this pathetic thread can eat shit. -- rhapsody: rhap.so.dy \'rap-s*d-e-\ n recitation of selections from epic poetry; a highly emotional utterance or literary work; RAPTURE, ECSTASY; the new Macintosh OS.
From: "Raymond L. Ehrlich" <rehrlich@sprintmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Cable for NeXT cube Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:32:37 +0000 Organization: Sprint Internet Passport Technical Center-Tampa, Fl Message-ID: <32D40465.4776@sprintmail.com> References: <32D3F275.1FBF@macroi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Sumair Mitroo <sumair@macroi.com> Sumair Mitroo wrote: > > Needed for a NeXT 040 Cube: > > I have a defective cable (which goes between the monitor and the cube). > I am interested in purchasing this cable if anyone out there has one. > > Sumair > Tel. 330-399-1990 > sumair@macroi.com Sumair, Maybe you can try http://www.deepspacetech.com . Ray Every human being is a potential friend
From: jdoherty@ix.netcom.com (John Doherty) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:36:37 -0600 Organization: (none) Message-ID: <jdoherty-0801972036370001@aus-tx13-06.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net> <ldo-0401972147210001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5alm5c$kof@chico.franken.de> <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In article <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz>, ldo@waikato.ac.nz wrote: | Because QuickDraw GX isn't a programming language, it is able to provide... | a print-file format that makes page extraction and other such operations a | breeze. What print-file format is that? What software is available to manipulate files in this format? How does this software, if any, compare to what's available to manipulate DSC-compliant PS files?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc From: Fabien_Roy@free.fdn.org Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Message-ID: <E3prKD.7wq@free.fdn.fr> Sender: news@free.fdn.fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: Fabien Roy Consultant. References: <5aqbt5$h0e@white.koehntopp.de> <AEF6AD74-EA77DC@134.174.152.63> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:50:37 GMT "Ishir Bhan" <ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu> wrote: > On Mon, Jan 6, 1997 3:08 AM, Kristian Khntopp <mailto:KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> > wrote: > >Desktop printers are a shorthand macro for "Fire up the default > >application for this document and select its Print command." > >The macro may even select a printer in the print dialog > >depending on the desktop printers name. > > But desktop printers are also useful for monitoring the status of a print > job. Since the icon changes to reflect the printing status. You can also > double click on a printer icon to see what the printer is doing. How does > NeXTSTEP monitor printing now? Since most people only print to one printer > (at least one printer at a time), I think this could be easily solved by > having a printer.app which showed the status of printing in it's icons. > Double clicking it could bring up a list of all print jobs and their > status, listed by printer. > > -- > Ishir Bhan (ibhan@student.med.harvard.edu) > Harvard Medical School, Class of '00 > http://www.digitas.harvard.edu/~ibhan > > Already done in PrinterManager.app. You can print or fax on as many printer, in fact faxing is just like printing. Also you can view the spool, stop the printing and only allowed to remove your own print jobs (it's a multi user environment!), unless you have root access. -- Fabien Roy --------------------------------------------------------------------- Fabien_Roy@free.fdn.org (NextMail/MIME accepted) Fabien Roy Consultant NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP/EOF Consultant, SYBASE DBA 10 rue de la DEFENSE 93100 MONTREUIL, France Tel: 33 (0)1 45 28 32 23 Fax: 33 (0)1 48 55 09 90 GSM: 33 (0)6 60 46 36 83
From: "L. Todd Heberlein" <heberlei@NetSQ.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 9 Jan 1997 02:04:41 GMT Organization: mother.com Internet Services Message-ID: <01bbfdbf$64bbf100$04387880@test1> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> > >Well, if that's true, they should have dug up the old System 7 port to > >486's some time ago..... > Well, this news feed says that Intel is OK for Rhapsody but no existing > Macs. Can this be right? > > ---- > From EduPage Jan 7 > several years. (Wall Street Journal 7 Jan 97 B6) The new line of machines > is necessary because the Next-based system won't run on any of the existing > Macs, including those using the popular Motorola 680x0 line of chips. It > will, however, run on Intel-based computers now using Windows 95 and Windows > NT. (Tampa Tribune 7 Jan 97 B&F8) As far as I know, Apple's OpenStep will run on Windows NT but NOT windows 95. NeXT originally planned to do Windows 95, but I think they abandoned it. OpenStep for Mach (A.K.A. NEXTSTEP) does not run on ALL Intel-based computers which can use Windows 95 and Windows NT. NEXTSTEP is limited to systems which have appropriate drivers, and I suspect a substantial percentage of Intel-based computers do not have appropriate drivers. In summary, Apple has the following software shipping TODAY: (1) MacOS 7.x for all Apple and Apple-clone PowerPCs (2) OpenStep for Windows NT (running on Intel hardware) (3) OpenStep for Mach (running on a limited set of Intel-based computers, SPARCstations, and NeXTstations) (4) WebObjects, PDO, and other supporting software running on a variety of hardware and OS platforms. In about six months Apple should be shipping OpenStep for <unknown kernel> running on all currently shipping [Apple approved] Power PC systems. This system would not be able to run MacOS 7.x applications (at least, that is not a target). In about twelve months, the first consumer version should ship which would let OpenStep and MacOS 7.x run simultaneously on the <unknown kernel>. This first consumer version would not run all MacOS 7.x applications, but improvements will be made in subsequent releases. I hope Apple not only chooses to sell, but also actively promote, OpenStep for Mach for Intel and other hardware as well as OpenStep for Windows NT. I also hope Apple intends to make sure the <unknown kernel> runs on Intel-based computers as well. Todd
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701082125.NAA18608@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: b4de8624ce1e354d00bfbb18623fce73 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:25:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: b4de8624ce1e354d00bfbb18623fce73 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: "Dale Friesen" <dalef@bolen.bc.ca> Original Date: 7 Jan 97 09:08:27 -0800 > Please pardon my ignorance, but since NeXT runs on different CPUs > is it necessary to recompile for each? Or are the APIs fairly high > level such that you can write something for NeXT, drop it on a > CD-ROM and anyone running the OS (regardless of hardware) can use > it? If the latter, will this include the Mac running Rhapsody (the > NeXT-based MacOS)? I can't say exactly what the future will be like, but here's the present/past of NeXTStep: NeXTStep 3 could be run on NeXT Hardware ("Cubes" "slabs" etc), and Intel-based machines, HPs, and SPARCs. You could write a program on any one of these 4 and compile it so that it would run on all 4 (this was called building a "Fat" app(lication) or "MAB" (for "Multi-Architecture Binary". With "OpenStep" this was expanded. There was OpenStep/Mach which ran on NeXT, Intel, HP and SPARC, but there was also OpenStep/NT and OpenStep/Solaris. Consequently, you could write an app on OpenStep/Mach (on a NeXT machine, Intel, HP or SPARC) and then recompile it on OpenStep/Solaris and/or OpenStep/NT. The advantages are obvious, you write an app on one machine and it can be used on several, simply by recoming the source code (but without having to make changes to the code) TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Apple + NeXT = Rhapsody (in black? ;-)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701082127.NAA18852@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: 75ca539a6a34ea6b82ff005c62dc366d - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:26:50 -0500 Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: 75ca539a6a34ea6b82ff005c62dc366d - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE ADVOCASY GROUPS. IT DOES NOT BELONG IN COMP.SYS.NeXT.MISC I'M SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT GX AND DPS TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Apple + NeXT = Rhapsody (in black? ;-)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701082135.NAA19665@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: abf7ee76cbc3aefb6b0deb03be79f748 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:35:00 -0500 Subject: Re: OpenStep (NeXTStep?) for Sparc Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com, rob@optimal-object.com References: abf7ee76cbc3aefb6b0deb03be79f748 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: Rolfe Tessem <rolfe@ldp.com> Original Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 17:11:12 -0500 > Where can I purchase a copy, and where can I find out exactly which > Sparc platforms it runs on? Try contacting the wonderful man known only as "rob@optimal-object.com" who wears a dark cape and can be seen late at night dealing with NeXTStep/OpenStep orders ;-) TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Apple + NeXT = Rhapsody (in black? ;-)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701082141.NAA20546@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: 9ff92688693d1341366f6c63d552bcd5 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:41:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Latest OS for NeXT Cube? Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com, rob@optimal-object.com References: 9ff92688693d1341366f6c63d552bcd5 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: dforrest@pop.erols.com (Daryl Forrest) Original Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:32:02 -0500 > I've been lucky enough to be loaned an (original) NeXT cube (with > 17" megapixel monochrome display, 400dpi printer, and CD-ROM drive) > to play with for a while. lucky you! > What is the latest NeXTStep OS release for this machine? NeXTStep 3.3 (unless you want to go to OpenStep 4.1) > Are these OS updates free? Smoking the cheap stuff Daryl? ;-) No, unfortunately they are not. > Any idea on how to get the latest OS for this machine? comp.sys.next.marketplace for NeXTStep rob@optimal-object.com for OpenStep (licensed vendor) TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Apple + NeXT = Rhapsody (in black? ;-)
From: bwdutton@ucdavis.edu (Bradley W. Dutton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 20:07:01 -0700 Organization: none Message-ID: <bwdutton-0801972007010001@dav1-2.calweb.com> References: <jinx6568-0801971238420001@news.sover.net> <5b0s1s$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> In article <5b0s1s$19n@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: > Chris Johnson (jinx6568@sover.net) wrote: > : In article <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com>, dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > : > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which platform will > : > get the best applications, and get them soonest? > > : Apparently the NeXT development tools are absolutely compelling, > : comparatively easy to use, and (for instance) a bigwig at Id who's > : responsible for Quake is on record as being very interested in jumping > : back from NT for these tools, when it becomes available from Apple. > > Remember, you can write for OpenStep, AND run on NT. > > That > : would mean the next Quake, 'Mac' first. > > Uh not quite. Quake is a real-time operating system running on > Intel Pentium hardware, loaded by DOS. It has intimate knowledge of > PC graphics and sound hardware. > > Quake tools are what ID use to design the levels and bitmaps. Since we are on the subject of games, how will they run on the projected NeXtMacOS? Just yesterday I heard my roomate complaining about how slow WinNT is compared to Win95 when playing games, even when the game is set to the highest priority on the NT system. Will the NeXtMacOS be so multitasked and protected that performance on games will decline? Any information or views would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad -- Bradley W. Dutton EE Major U.C. Davis
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701082134.NAA19566@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: c05160908a0e7f36db2d6bb793f645e6 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:33:50 -0500 Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: c05160908a0e7f36db2d6bb793f645e6 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Please help me move this thread out of the comp.sys.next.misc group and into one of the advocasy groups. The charter of 'comp.sys.next.misc' specifically indicates that nothing should ever be crossposted to it. Please remove 'comp.sys.next.misc' from any further messages that belong in the advocasy groups. Thank you TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Apple + NeXT = Rhapsody (in black? ;-)
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 03:45:03 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-0801972247100001@news.sover.net> References: <maury-0801971345150001@199.166.204.230> <AEF97BE2-80ECC@198.68.42.165> In article <AEF97BE2-80ECC@198.68.42.165>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Sure. But there are bound to be spare byte-codes laying around unused by > the DPS interpreter. Use one of these as an escape code to allow direct > calling of GX "atomic" calls via the DPS interpreter. YOu get an unmodified > DPS *and* you get an optimized GX. 68K trap-patching lives! *hehe* :) Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: mmunz@inconnect.com (Mark Munz) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 8 Jan 1997 07:54:25 GMT Organization: Puppy Dog Software Distribution: inet Message-ID: <mmunz-0801970053350001@slc-dial-28.inconnect.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> In article <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org>, judas@tomtec.abg.sub.org (Th.Huber) wrote: >>I will leave you with this thought: >>Reduced Instruction Set = Less Transistors = Lower Cost. > >It isn`t as simple as that. > >RISC uses a reduced instructionset, to use all of the available transistors >to speed up these instructions. RISC uses carry-look-ahead logic to do very >quick maths, while plain CISC takes lots of cycles to get the same thing done. Actually, RISC stands for Reduced Instruction Set Computer. But, it does not necessarily mean less instructions (I believe PPC has some 200 instructions). The term refers to the ISA (Instruction Set Architecture) and not the processor. What RISC can be thought of is: A large uniform register set A load/store architecture A minimal number of addressing modes A simple fixed-length instruction encoding No/minimal support for misaligned accesses btw.. there is an interesting book by Kip McClanahan called "PowerPC Programming for Intel Programmers" to gives a side-by-side comparison of the x86 and the PPC differences in architecture and such. Even though I'm not an x86 programmer, I still found the book to be full of good explanations of how the PPC worked. Mark Munz
From: Eric Doenges <doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 9 Jan 97 07:53:22 GMT Organization: Lehrstuhl fuer Prozessrechner, TU Muenchen (Germany) Distribution: world Message-ID: <doenges.852796402@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> <mroeder-0801971223320001@mroeder-mac1.macromedia.com> Originator: doenges@nelion.lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de mroeder@macromedia.com (Michael Roeder) writes: >In article <doenges.852644182@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de>, >doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de wrote: >> I think Apple, if they play their cards right, can take a significant >> portion of the personal computer and low- to medium end workstation >> markets. I just hope they don't become a virtual monopoly like Microsoft. >Microsoft has become a "virtual monopoly" (nice term; I like it!) (I call Microsoft a 'virtual' monopoly because you still have a choice, at least in theory.) > through >selling both the operating system and the applications for PCompatibles. >Rumor had it that Windows had bunches of secret APIs that they only >told MS apps developers, enabling MS apps to run faster and better than >the competition's. And you can't get the official Windows logo for your >product if it competes with any of the applications in MS Office. Only if >you write some application for a Market that Microsoft hasn't decided to >dominate can you call it Windows-compatible. Well, I would consider Apple a monopoly if the only operating system in town came from Apple, regardless of wether they were active in the application market. That would be a Very Bad Thing for innovation. >Apple writes system software. They spun off their applications software >business as Claris, which has been doing very well by selling to Windows >as well as Macintosh markets. So basically, you're right. And for Apple, >playing the cards right means to create the best OS for personal computers >and give the applications developers the chance to develop the applications. I agree. Let's hope they finally get it right this time. I've been waiting since 1993 ... I'm not going to wait much longer. -- Eric Doenges EMail:<doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> "You don't have to swim faster than the shark, just faster than the guy next to you" - anonymous
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 9 Jan 1997 05:13:23 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5b1upj$48e@news.xmission.com> References: <jinx6568-0801971238420001@news.sover.net> <5b0s1s$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> <bwdutton-0801972007010001@dav1-2.calweb.com> bwdutton@ucdavis.edu (Bradley W. Dutton) wrote: > Since we are on the subject of games, how will they run on the projected > NeXtMacOS? Just yesterday I heard my roomate complaining about how slow > WinNT is compared to Win95 when playing games, even when the game is set > to the highest priority on the NT system. Will the NeXtMacOS be so > multitasked and protected that performance on games will decline? Any > information or views would be greatly appreciated. I've written several arcade style games for NEXTSTEP and am intimately familiar with the source code for several others. The performance under NEXTSTEP isn't too bad. In attempting to port the same games to OPENSTEP (what Apple's building off of) I've run into some performance difficulties. It seems that they are primarily due to changes in the way the AppKit is doing things (one game saw a 50% drop in performance running on identical hardware). Once I figure out what is going on and determine some new drawing optimization techniques, though, I should be able to get performance back to what it was. (The NEXTSTEP to OPENSTEP conversion, as it turns out, is non- trivial...) That said, OPENSTEP specific code is slower than NEXTSTEP code, but OPENSTEP runs the NEXTSTEP code as fast as ever, so that is why I blame the new AppKit for any performance losses. And NeXT's stuff doesn't seem that much slower, so that suggests that I should be able to get the previous good performance as I tweak the code. Note that NeXT has a non-public API that would be perfect for game writers called the Interceptor. NeXT Doom makes use of this API--it allows you to "punch a hole" in DPS and splat an image right into the frame buffer. The performance of games that use it seems to be quite good. If that API were opened up to developers in general, performance would not be a concern. Of course, the blue box compatability mode will probably suffer a little bit--the more software layers you put around an app, the slower it will run. Apple claims it won't be too bad, though, so we'll have to wait and see, I guess. Also, when I talk about the performance decrease, this is on very intense, graphically rich, arcade-style animations, and the hardware was a slow 68040. On my Pentium Pro 200, I can't tell the difference between the two apps. (So I go to the 68040 to test optimizations, since the slow hardware magnifies speed differences.) Obviously, the better hardware, even with the reduced performance, can produce the desired frame rate anyway. Given the speed of PowerPC hardware, you may well see a similar effect--the hardware is fast enough to erase speed differences. Only a computationally intensive game--like a Sim game in it's fastest mode--would show a significant difference. Anyway, this is all conjecture until we have the new OS to play with. However, past experience with NEXTSTEP tells me that games should do just fine on the new OS. I plan to make sure mine run there, so I can at least guarantee that there will be games. Maybe I'll even find time to finish the several I've got squirreled away on my hard drive unfinished. :-) -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 8 Jan 1997 23:53:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEF9E70B-FC8C@198.68.42.180> References: <jinx6568-0801972247100001@news.sover.net> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Johnson <jinx6568@sover.net> said: ><english@primenet.com> wrote: >> Sure. But there are bound to be spare byte-codes laying around unused by >> the DPS interpreter. Use one of these as an escape code to allow direct >> calling of GX "atomic" calls via the DPS interpreter. YOu get an unmodified >> DPS *and* you get an optimized GX. > > 68K trap-patching lives! *hehe* I don't think so. My understanding is that DPS under NeXT is enhanced over what it is on other systems. One assumes (if this is the case), it is because the interpreter can be extended. Since GX calls would be non-changing (unlike a language), you don't really need to use an interpreter for GX calls, but the escape code could be a pointer to some kind of jump table. You could even extend the concept and have a jump table to a jump table in case more than one alternative graphics API was planned (can we say "Original QuickDraw API?" I knew that we could). -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jthomas@pluto.njcc.com (Jay) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 01:06:37 -0500 Organization: Jay, Inc. Message-ID: <jthomas-0901970106370001@viking.njcc.com> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <passenger-0801972014460001@mfd-dial3-25.cybercom.net> In article <passenger-0801972014460001@mfd-dial3-25.cybercom.net>, passenger@cybercom.net (T. Vector) wrote: > In article <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218>, tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu > (Robert Tan) wrote: > > >At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus > >utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought > >Nextstep is immune to virus infections. > > > > it's necessary to Symantec. that's the only Mac software they have > that makes a dime. i wouldn't be too concerned about it; when's the > last time you actually saw a Mac virus? I was saying that for a while until I ran Disenfectant. I suggest you do the same. You might be surprised. (I certainly was :-()
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: rbp@investor.pgh.pa.us (Bob Peirce #305) Subject: What about a OpenStep/PowerPC board for the Cube? Message-ID: <1997Jan8.141353.512@investor.pgh.pa.us> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 14:13:53 GMT Organization: Cookson, Peirce & Co., Pittsburgh, PA In all the discussion of Apple buying NeXT and what this is going to mean for Mac users, I have missed any discussion of what it is going to mean for Cube (or Slab) users. Maybe it was buried in some of the other discussion, but I would like to start a new thread. I have heard there are about 50K NeXTs out there gradually becoming obsolete. An OpenStep port to the PowerPC on a NeXT Cube and Slab board would keep those old boxes viable and the NeXT hardware community interested. I think a lot of those folks have been reluctant to move to Intel. I know I have, but I am being forced in that direction by events. Yes, I know a lot of people are going to OpenStep on Intel (did I get that right?), but I am not sure that is a long term solution and I will tell you why. I went to an "Executive Briefing" on WindowsNT and I was impressed. I can't say if Windows 95 is Mac 8? because I have never used a Mac, but it sure is TRYING to pick up a lot of the things I like about the NeXT and NEXTSTEP at the user level. It isn't there yet, and I have no idea of where it is at the developer level, but MS has the resources to move both user and developer in a NeXT-like direction. Also, there is the shear quantity of software available for this OS, with more coming out every day. I love my Cube and would like to keep it running, but there is no support in view. If the support doesn't come and I have to replace my Cube, it is probably not going to be with a Mac. It will be Intel, but when I consider the advisability of buying Intel, I see WindowsNT, not OpenStep as the likely OS. This has nothing to do with whether NT is a great OS or not. It is just the way things are going. Therefore, all I can say is: Stop me before I sin; give me a PowerPC board for my Cube! -- Bob Peirce Pittsburgh, PA 412-471-5320 rbp@investor.pgh.pa.us [OFFICE] me@venetia.pgh.pa.us [HOME (NeXT)] There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. -- P.J. O'Rourke
From: jburton@nwu.edu (Joshua W. Burton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 9 Jan 1997 08:29:11 GMT Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, IL, US Message-ID: <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <5b16a4$sdo@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) wrote: > Maybe Apple will soften the UNIXish behaviour enough to enable > viruses to become a reality but methinks the real reason is to > make $ :-) This is something I've always wondered about, though since I came to NeXTstep directly from VMS back in early 1989 I haven't had much experience with toy OS's. Obviously the virus protection people profit from the existence of viruses, and since the health of the OS as a whole is improved by robust software sales (more developers, more mindshare, more advertising dollars and magazine pages), the OS suppliers benefit as well. I am curious whether these parties actively work to ensure a continuing virus problem, either directly by writing viruses or indirectly by paying bounty money to people who "discover" new viruses. It seems like a logical if rather cynical strategy, and one that we poor innocents migrating from NeXTstep to Rhapsody need to become savvy about if it's the MacDoze norm. If I'm going to have to start supporting a protection racket, I want to do it on the best terms I can. Equipment grant expiring? |================================================== For a new terminal, drive | Joshua W Burton (847)677-3902 jburton@nwu.edu nail in HERE ===> (*) |==================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy From: simpson@post.drexel.edu (Homer Simpson) Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Message-ID: <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:13:55 -0500 References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> Organization: Drexel University Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In article <jcr.852517036@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > > Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that > GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a > vertical frame interval, isn't it? > Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware?
From: Jonas.Palm@orgk1.lu.se (Jonas Palm) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:07:22 +0100 Organization: University of Lund, Sweden Message-ID: <Jonas.Palm-0901971307220001@jp.orgk2.lth.se> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > The NeXT Cube shipped with 8MB of RAM standard. 25 MHz 68030. OO GUI, UNIX > and 1120x832 pixel display. And it always appeared quite quick, compared to > similarly equipped Apple, Sun, or IBM machines. Unless, of course, you ran it > exclusively from the optical media, which was rather slow. > > I guess it would have done quite acceptably even at 16 MHz. > I reread the original UnixWorld article on the NextCube when the deal was announced. It shipped with 4 (four) MB of RAM. You could buy another 4 MB for $1995. I have the entire list of prices and bundled software at home, if anyone is interested. Jonas Palm
From: jdoherty@ix.netcom.com (John Doherty) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: cmsg cancel <jdoherty-0801972036370001@aus-tx13-06.ix.netcom.com> Control: cancel <jdoherty-0801972036370001@aus-tx13-06.ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 23:33:41 -0600 Organization: (none) Message-ID: <jdoherty-0801972333410001@aus-tx5-03.ix.netcom.com> cancel <jdoherty-0801972036370001@aus-tx13-06.ix.netcom.com>
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 11:56:37 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Cc: simpson@post.drexel.edu In <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Homer Simpson wrote: [...] > Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 > separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent > colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to > completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster > DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? DPS. BTW, does GX really have to loop through all the objects five times to make sure everything is drawed? =8-[=]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: tomi@shinto.nbg.sub.org (Thomas Engel) Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Message-ID: <E3qLKu.D3@shinto.nbg.sub.org> Sender: news@shinto.nbg.sub.org Organization: STEPeople's home (A NUGI member) References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:38:53 GMT aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) wrote: > John Hornkvist wrote: > > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's > missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file > without opening an application that knows how to print it. If the Mac's > desktop printer supports dragging a file icon and dropping it on the desktop > printer icon to print the file, that seems like a nice design. Uups. Art..you should know better. You might have meant something different but your sentence is a little misleading. Someone always has to "open" an application since it is the only one who "knows" how to print its documents. But on NeXTSTEP that someone is the user and not the system. The fix would be trivial under OpenStep: Add a new method to the documented NSApplication methods like: - (BOOL)application:(NSApplication *)application printFile:(NSString *)filename and add a new entry to Workspace.apps "File" menu...and there you go. To the developer this means adding a few lines of source. It is correct that NeXTSTEP doesn't have this feature and that this should be integrated into Rhapsody. Aloha Tomi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: tomi@shinto.nbg.sub.org (Thomas Engel) Subject: Going cross platform (Was: Mac programmers converting to MacStep) Message-ID: <E3qM2s.E9@shinto.nbg.sub.org> Sender: news@shinto.nbg.sub.org Organization: STEPeople's home (A NUGI member) References: <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86> <E3ovqp.5L9@cam-ani.co.uk> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:49:40 GMT ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) wrote: > All apps generally can run on all architectures, even if the developer has > never seen an HP or a Sparc running NeXTStep. Existing apps won't run on > PPC because there's no tick box yet, but once it's there then it should be > a matter of ticking the box, and it will go. There's no reason why Apps > for PPC should not start apearing BEFORE the OS does, if NeXT release > OPENSTEP 4.2 for 68K, Intel and Sparc with a PPC compiler!. > This is not very likely since it would require all the libs to be present. "Rhapsody developer snapshot" (propably really just a port of OPENSTEP since it will totally lack all "blue box features) will be the first release with PPC support IMHO...but then they could have that addition switch...true. > Of course how this applies to Rhapsody is anyones guess, but provided > Apple don't take the technology out, or change things for the sake of it, > then it should work great. The cross-platform stuff is truly excellent, > and it would be crazy to break it - but then I wouldn't put it past them. > Now lets this idea little further. Anyone to imagine the effect of the rumoured ObjC-to-Java1.1 compiler ? One "binary" to go crossplatform without any changes. Add a platform specific "runtime-compiler" and you have Openstep at its best. Apple and Sun should go for that one ! Aloha Tomi
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 07:55:25 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080000901970755250001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: )You can only compare the rendering times using the appropriate generic file )formats. View a file containing native GX objects on a Mac, then view a )PostScript file that gives the same optical output result on a DPS machine. GX Maker does an actual Postscript -> GX PDD translation. It takes a *long* time, but the results when done are pretty impressive. The GX PDD will display and redraw faster than the Adobe Acrobat PDF that was used to generate the PS file used in the conversion. The PDD's also smaller. Unfortunately, there's no fast way to do the conervsion. GX Maker is nowhere close to being usable for real-time PS->GX translation. )Besides, the discussion is moot since Apple has already decided to use DPS )and add GX compatibility. The way they suggested implementing it, though is totally infeasible and I strongly suspect they'll have to change. Really GX should just be left floating around in the system like QD 3D, and given a direct portal to the screen when requested. (A 'phantom' viewport could probably be set up to handle occlusion by the window manager) Similarly the printing architecture primarily needs access to a network. IMO it seems like it would be far far easier for Apple to just make a 'View' subclass and add the 4 or 5 attributes necessary for GX structures, and add or overshadow a few new methods, i.e. in addition to PrintPS there would be a PrintGX which would print the GX Picture Shape associated with that subclass. Objective-C classes for GX-based text fields and pictures could be made pretty quickly and just added as an alternative widget to be placed in an interface. The key thing is to give developers a choice, fortunately in this case a choice of imaging APIs is much easier and wiser to implement. GX Typography just can't be yanked out of GX and placed in the appkit, it relies on too much of GX's internal objects and structures. Similarly transfer modes as implemented in GX can't be easily added to DPS without actually altering a lot of DPS' rasterization code and extending the language. That's just a ludicrous proposal in and of itself. It's bad enough that you can't print transparent things because of a language difference between DPS and straight PS, but adding support for transfer modes will make a lot of stuff that's already printable via the built-in GX-> Postscript translator in GX's printer driver architecture, unprintable because DPS will have even more features that PS won't. Definitely undesirable. Implementing transfer modes as PS functions is also infeasible because that much interpreted math could only be one thing, and that's *SLOW* Rewriting the code in Objective-C isn't really worth the time, when it already exists and runs great. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: 9 Jan 1997 13:22:46 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5b2rf6$hld@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> <01bbfdbf$64bbf100$04387880@test1> In-Reply-To: <01bbfdbf$64bbf100$04387880@test1> Followups-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Follow-ups trimmed (please don't cross-post to misc groups) On 01/08/97, "L. Todd Heberlein" wrote: > As far as I know, Apple's OpenStep will run on Windows NT but NOT windows > 95. NeXT originally planned to do Windows 95, but I think they abandoned > it. > I gather that W95 support will be included in OpenStep 4.2, due out soon. Best wishes, mmalc --
From: heller@altoetting.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Summary: Matrox MGA Mystic supported on NS3.3?? Date: 9 Jan 1997 06:48:11 GMT Organization: Camelot Online Services Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b24bb$pg0@lancelot.camelot.de> References: <5au08l$p4l@lancelot.camelot.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5au08l$p4l@lancelot.camelot.de> heller@altoetting.de writes: > Hello, > > My wife intends to buy a PC and I want to run NS on it. She is looking into > a Gateway2000 Pentium 133MHz machine with a Matrox MGA Mystic (2MB SGRAM) > graphics card. I have the following questions: > > 1) is the Matrox MGA Mystic (2MB SGRAM) graphics card supported by NS3.3 > (resolution of 1280*1024*75hz intended)? > 2) any comments on buying a gateway200 computer? > > please, if possible, answer by e-mail to heller@altoetting.de > I got 2 answers. Both stated that the Matrox Mystic is NOT supported. None had any experience with Gateway. Thanks to all who helped! Bye, helmut -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@altoetting.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: gralk!smeyer (Stephan Meyer) Subject: please ignore Message-ID: <E3pvLM.7D@gralk.toppoint.de> Sender: smeyer@gralk.toppoint.de (Stephan Meyer) Organization: private site in Kiel/Germany Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 01:17:45 GMT sorry for this test. please ignore
From: mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 8 Jan 1997 02:05:46 GMT Organization: The University of California at San Diego Message-ID: <5auvdq$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu> References: <remedies-0501972357290001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> Chris Murphy (remedies@rapidremedies.com) wrote: : In article <5apvrh$4ua@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott : Anguish) wrote: : > You forget that there is another road here that Developers should be : >considering. OpenStep is crossplatform NOW on Mach, Solaris and NT, soon to : >be an Apple OS. If the DPS functionality was ripped from the Apple product, : >Apple looses its cross-platform advantages which it just got. DPS is part : >of the OpenStep spec. : And if OpenStep/Mach is so easy to port, then the new Mac OS (and it *is* : the new *MAC* OS...not the new NeXT OS) should be equally easy to port. : You are asking a whole bunch of Apple users to re-write applications for : DPS. It's a lot easier for the VERY small numbers of NeXT application to : need re-writing to work with GX. This misses the point. NextSTep was designed for Display postscript. It is Good. NextStep works today. It was working, with the same DPS architecture, before Windows 3.0 even existed. The point of Nextstep is to get a *WORKING* *STABLE* *GOOD* operating system *NOW*. Screwing around with working parts of Nextstep is NOT a smart idea. Ship first, then start worrying about the Nextstep part of things. In its totality, Nextstep is better than MacOS. : And keep in mind Apple BOUGHT NeXT. They did NOT buy NextStep, or : OpenStep. They bought the company. They can do whatever they want with : this operating system, and if that means gutting it in order to BORG the : best of the current Mac OS and OpenStep to make the next Mac OS (I keep : saying that...it *is* the Mac OS, not just a NeXT port to work on a : PowerMac) kick ass, then that's what needs to be done. It doesn't appear that Apple is smart, however.
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 14:23:53 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5b2v1p$kvq@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <marke-2912961440100001@ip004.mu2.nwlink.com> <5a7df0$5fd@client3.news.psi.net> <howarth-ya02408000R2912962354480001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <ldo-0401972158340001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5arhch$79b@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <ldo-0801972130240001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <ldo-0801972130240001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> On 01/07/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > >Umm, as I've pointed out elsewhere, an application to do just this for > >PostScript documents was developed by Gideon Tearle back in 1992.. > > Doesn't this depend on the PostScript conforming to Adobe's Document > Structuring Conventions, which in fact few PostScript files do? > Don't know -- as fas as I'm aware though NEXTSTEP PostScript tends to follow the DSC properly, though, so it would be consistent on the platform. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 14:29:35 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5b2vcf$lbi@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <rzeman-0101972041150001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101972230330001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301972140450001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5aj612$ied@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <ldo-0701972107290001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <ldo-0701972107290001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> On 01/06/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > >Umm, I can print out directly from OmniWeb and NetSurfer on NEXTSTEP for > >free. > > Are those the only two applications? > No, I only mentioned them because you mentioned Netscape (they're the NEXTSTEP WWW browsers) -- you can do this from any NEXTSTEP app. For any printer. > Remember, these products work across a range of different > applications, and across a range of different printer drivers! > NS print tools work for *all* applications, for *all* printers. When NeXTStep 2.0 was released, NeXT added a new option to the print Panel -- Fax. This meant that any application could "print" directly to a fax, even though the capability had not been there in NeXTstep 1.0, and nothing had been written into the applications to support it. Similar actually to the way applications suddenly supported colour, although they hadn't been coded with colour in mind (NS 1.0 only ran on mono systems), and all applications got Pantone support with NS 3.0. > Funnily enough--have a look at Tumbler > <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/sw/index.html#Tumbler>, which I believe is > the lowest-cost tool for producing PDF files with high-quality text and > graphics on *any* platform. Some samples of its output are available at > <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/>. > Is it free? I *believe* there's a GhostScript print filter which works for NEXTSTEP which should allow you to output to PDF. (Corrections welcome.) Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 14:41:43 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5b3037$m61@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a97j3$g8n@duke.squonk.net> <ldo-0401972147210001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5alm5c$kof@chico.franken.de> <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <ldo-0801972110230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> On 01/07/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: > It's not an advantage--it's a liability. The programming language part of > PostScript is probably the single biggest factor in all the well-known > problems with PostScript files. It is what makes it impossible to do > simple page extraction, or graphic editing at the object level (not, at > any rate, without putting the file through a custom PostScript interpreter > that outputs graphical objects in some non-PostScript format). > This is just plain wrong -- unless Tailor.app and OneVision are figments of their developers' imaginations... in which case I'd love to know how they get their customers to pay money. > Trouble is, the PostScript graphics model is inherently unsuited to the > screen (as I have tried to demonstrate in other postings), and Display > PostScript lacks features that are important to interactive on-screen > graphics--features which QuickDraw GX has, and which can be important, > among other things, for writing games! > I believe someone else posted a paper recently which showed that PostScript was originally developed for displays rather than paper, so I'd contest the "inherently unsuited" claim. Could you list the features PS lacks for interactive on-screen graphics -- there are a number of games written for NEXTSTEP in DPS which work admirably, as of course does the whole of the interactive UI. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:45:10 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E3qzrB.61r@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> In article <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> tan@neptune.cmc.uab.edu (Robert Tan) writes: > At MacWorld Symmantec announced that they will be developing virus > utilities for Rhapsody, the new Mac/Next OS. Is this neccessary? I thought > Nextstep is immune to virus infections. No system is totally immune to viruses, but there has never been a NeXTStep virus. Unix in general is better protected than Mac and DOS because it does not allow ordinary users to mess around with the system. Anything loaded onto the system "in principle" runs in a closed box which can't break things outside that box (that box probably includes your personal files but excludes system files). Is it necessary? Not right now. However I'm sure many less technicaly clued up users, and paranoid managers will snap it up. Symmantec are hardly going to tell these people NOT to buy their product. If in the future viruses do apear, then some kind of protection MAY become usefull, but the OS probably provides better protection than the current generation of virus checkers can. I suspect that Symmantec have no idea what they're planning to do, and have made a standard no-brain press release that they will suppoort the "new" platform without any real knowledge of what the implications are. $an
From: Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz <neideck@kar.dec.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 17:15:20 +0100 Organization: Digital CEC Karlsruhe Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D51998.4875@kar.dec.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <nervous-0701970809040001@ascend17.netrover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nervous wrote: > Too bad NT is not being supported on Alpha platforms...or _any_ RISC chip! Mmh. Why would you think that NT is *not* supported on Alpha ? Just because both MIPS and PowerPC chickened out of NT doesn't mean that Digital would. NT most certainly is supported across the entire line of Alpha machines. As a matter of fact, Digital only today introduced new NT Alphas (cheap 433 and 500 Mhz workstations with SDRAM main memory systems). Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz CEC Karlsruhe , European Applied Research Center, Digital Equip. Corp. email: neideck@kar.dec.com 433Mhz 21164, 64 MB RAM, 3.2 GB disk, 17" monitor, NT included: just $3999 SPEC95 12.6e/12.0e, See http://www.enorex.com/ for details
From: jc@or.psychology.dal.ca (John Christie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 9 Jan 1997 15:34:02 GMT Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Message-ID: <5b335a$6e9@News.Dal.Ca> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-0801971341410001@199.166.204.230> Maury Markowitz (maury@softarc.com) wrote: : In article <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, : rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: : > QT 2.5 on 7.5 can do that also. MP support brought preemptive threading : > on PowerMacs. : Yes, at the expense of a CPU doing process switching. That's no : solution, only SMP is. The recent tests in MacWorld showed that QT 2.5 goes up in speed something like a factor of 1.8 to 1.9 when on a dual 180 as opposed to a single. I'll live with that until SMP brings me 2.0. I thought AMP wouldn't be nearly as good as it is but when you read about what it is capable of in action the advantages of SMP appear very small indeed. BTW, with SMP what magic piece of hardware does the process switching? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ John Christie "You aren't free because you CAN choose - only if you DO choose." "All you are is the decisions you make. If you let circumstances make them for you then what you are becomes very easy to estimate."
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:51:16 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971051320001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-0801971636520001@199.166.204.230> <AEF97B0C-7DC83@198.68.42.165> In article <AEF97B0C-7DC83@198.68.42.165>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Do you know something that the QT team doesn't? AFAIK, Be's demos were > bogus also. How are they "bogus"? Your example was one of applying filters in real time to QT streams. Well I'm running on a 7200/120 with lots of ram and cache, and I can't do that to ONE movie at once and get good results. Playing more than one movie at a time results in degredation, playing three or more leaves long pauses in the playback of them all. QuickTime CAN'T do this stuff now, yet the demos on NeXTStep and BeOS can. The proof is in the pudding. Maury
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 16:50:10 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b37k2$ier@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> <Jonas.Palm-0901971307220001@jp.orgk2.lth.se> Jonas.Palm@orgk1.lu.se (Jonas Palm) wrote: > I reread the original UnixWorld article on the NextCube when the deal > was announced. > It shipped with 4 (four) MB of RAM. > You could buy another 4 MB for $1995. I recall a few universities ordering Cubes with 4 MB of RAM, but they quickly discovered that incessant paging made such a configuration a real dog. When I bought my Cube new in May, 1990, 8 MB of RAM was the base configuration and I believe this was the case from the very beginning. The 4 MB option was a downgrade that NeXT apparently offered, but few exercised this option. I may not be totally correct about this, but that's what I recall. 8 MB of RAM seemed like quite a bit in 1990, but for a full-fledged Unix operating system with a high-resolution graphical interface, this was quite reasonable. Application bloat, the addition of color support, greater graphical content (images), etc. has led to ever-increasing memory requirements as all operating systems have experienced. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: william@mathworks.com (William York) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Porting NextStep apps to OpenStep Date: 9 Jan 1997 12:02:22 -0500 Organization: The MathWorks, Inc., Natick, MA 01760 Message-ID: <5b38au$n9q@madmax.mathworks.com> What is involved in taking existing NeXTStep Apps and migrating them to OpenStep for Sparc? Is it "just a recompile"? Any feedback and experience appreciated. Bill -- William York william@mathworks.com
From: william@mathworks.com (William York) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Converting to / from Single/Multiple channel tiff Date: 9 Jan 1997 12:06:43 -0500 Organization: The MathWorks, Inc., Natick, MA 01760 Message-ID: <5b38j3$o4l@madmax.mathworks.com> is the software to convert the multi channel tifs to gifs (or single channel tifs or jpgs or whatever) and vice versa? Bill -- William York william@mathworks.com
From: william@mathworks.com (William York) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: .places .dir and .opendir files Date: 9 Jan 1997 12:10:13 -0500 Organization: The MathWorks, Inc., Natick, MA 01760 Message-ID: <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> What are these files for: .dir.tiff .dir3_o.wmd .opendir.tiff .places3_0.wmd I've seen them in a few packages from ftp sites... -- William York william@mathworks.com
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 10:12:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFA782D-21FCE@198.68.42.166> References: <maury-0901971051320001@199.166.204.230> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How are they "bogus"? Your example was one of applying filters in real >time to QT streams. Well I'm running on a 7200/120 with lots of ram and >cache, and I can't do that to ONE movie at once and get good results. >Playing more than one movie at a time results in degredation, playing >three or more leaves long pauses in the playback of them all. > > QuickTime CAN'T do this stuff now, yet the demos on NeXTStep and BeOS >can. The proof is in the pudding. Do a get info from within MoviePlayer (you're using the latest one, right) and see how many tracks are enabled. Also, make sure that you have the QT PowerPlug installed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 10:16:06 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFA7919-2573B@198.68.42.166> References: <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Homer Simpson <simpson@post.drexel.edu> said: >In article <jcr.852517036@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > > >> >> Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed advantage that >> GX might have is really moot if both can render a window in less than a >> vertical frame interval, isn't it? >> >Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 >separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent >colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to >completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster >DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? GX would have to be faster than the equivalent PS for something like this, merely because any GX-like implementation would need to call DPS via the interpreter whereas GX would be doing "atomic" calls to its own internal drawing routines for drawing each object. It is plausible that you could speed up things by making each layer a single picture shape, but any such speedup would probably depend a lot on all the other stuff going on. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jonathan@illuminata.com (Jonathan Eunice) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:04:28 -0500 Organization: Illuminata, Inc. Message-ID: <199701091204286936233@[205.164.85.14]> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <E36KAJ.uF@micmac.com> <AEEDA493-1FAC7@198.68.42.169> <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> <5auhnb$98d@bignews.shef.ac.uk> mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> wrote: > [...] I point to > Robert P. Lee's (President and CEO, Insignia Solutions) comments... > > "The combination of Apple and NeXT has created a synergy that is sure to > ignite enthusiasm and support from the Macintosh community. Separately, these > two companies have distinct and respected personalities, but together their > combined strengths will establish the clear direction that Apple ISVs and > customers are looking for." Quotes like this are a dime a dozen, twenty-five cents a gross. They cost little and they mean less. Instead, watch what companies and customers do--where they invest money, time, and talents. -- Jonathan Eunice Analyst, client/SERVER Companion
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 10:26:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFA7B68-2E22F@198.68.42.166> References: <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >In <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Homer >Simpson >wrote: >[...] >> Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 >> separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent >> colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to >> completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster >> DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? > >DPS. > >BTW, does GX really have to loop through all the objects five times to make >sure everything is drawed? =8-[=] Now THAT was a silly answer. You have no idea what was being done with those objects behind the scenes. They might have had their transforms or internal geometries changed to allow for different scales/skews/rotations/translations/perspectives. A new window might been have opened to provide color separation views of any/all objects/layers. An object might have been modified in another window. The layers might have been re-ordered. Ditto with the objects within each layer. Etc. If you had a completely static image with no changes, you'd drw to a bitmap once and blit as needed, just as you'd do with DPS. It would be easier to do with DPS, but that's the fault of the lack of support of GX from Apple so that the ease-of-programming hasn't improved since it was first released. Here's a question: how long would it take you to devise a method to deal with a group of 1000 or 5000 graphical objects in such a way that you could group them into larger objects and still be able to manipulate them separately in their own windows, as needed, and be able to display the same object in different groups, with different colors/transforms/etc? How long to devise a way to include text as a first class object within that group, and still allow editing of both the characters AND the path that the text follows within the larger picture while not touching any other element within that picture? Etc? To repeat my oh-so-arrogant phrase: you guys STILL don't get GX. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 9 Jan 1997 17:07:49 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <5b16a4$sdo@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> Cc: jburton@nwu.edu In <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> Joshua W. Burton wrote: > frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) wrote: > > > Maybe Apple will soften the UNIXish behaviour enough to enable > > viruses to become a reality but methinks the real reason is to > > make $ :-) > > This is something I've always wondered about, though since I came > to NeXTstep directly from VMS back in early 1989 I haven't had > much experience with toy OS's. Obviously the virus protection > people profit from the existence of viruses, and since the health > of the OS as a whole is improved by robust software sales (more > developers, more mindshare, more advertising dollars and magazine > pages), the OS suppliers benefit as well. I am curious whether > these parties actively work to ensure a continuing virus problem, > either directly by writing viruses or indirectly by paying bounty > money to people who "discover" new viruses. It seems like a > logical if rather cynical strategy, and one that we poor innocents > migrating from NeXTstep to Rhapsody need to become savvy about if > it's the MacDoze norm. If I'm going to have to start supporting a > protection racket, I want to do it on the best terms I can. Hi Josh, remember me? I bought a bunch of ODs from you some years back. Actually, you're saying what I've been thinking for a long time. But when I shared my thoughs with others I got a lot of "hmmm"s, and that was about it. Still I'm convinced that that is exactly the way it works. Look at DOS/Windows/95/NT: Lots of problems -> lots of magazines to help you -> lots of advertising space. Lots of problems -> lots of utility applications -> lots of trouble with the utilities -> lots of magazines -> ... Compare with NeXTs: No problems -> No utilities -> No magazines -> Lots of productivity, but nobody notices the thing exists at all. > Equipment grant expiring? |================================================== > For a new terminal, drive | Joshua W Burton (847)677-3902 jburton@nwu.edu > nail in HERE ===> (*) |================================================== I printed your message to read at home. Now I have a paper nailed to my desk. How do I get a new terminal? Volker
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 97 10:58:51 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97Jan9105851@slave.one.net> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> In-reply-to: simpson@post.drexel.edu's message of Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:13:55 -0500 In article <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu>, simpson@post.drexel.edu (Homer Simpson) writes: In article <jcr.852517036@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: > Make no mistake, DPS is *very* fast. Any possible speed > advantage that GX might have is really moot if both can render a > window in less than a vertical frame interval, isn't it? Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? Who cares? Put another way, why would you ever want to render the entire set of objects more than the single time it takes to render it? And if you're doing something other than simply rendering the objects, you need to recast the question as one regarding whether DPS can do the specific operation you're asking for fast enough. Most (all?) of this argument has revolved around the fact that many parties are talking past each other. One set of people are saying "Yes, DPS is fast enough to write a CAD program, etc, etc", the other is saying "If I write a program in GX in this one particular fashion, can DPS do it just as efficiently?", with an implied addendum of "In this particular fashion". Who cares? Can you write me a mandelbrot set generator entirely in GX? I've seen source to one written entirely in postscript, you could "execute" it using lpr. You can't write it in GX, but that says _nothing_ about whether you can write a mandelbrot set generating program _using_ GX. Stupid argument all around, -- scott hess <shess@one.net> (606) 578-0412 http://w3.one.net/~shess/ <I plan to become so famous that people buy tapes of me reading source code>
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:58:55 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971258550001@199.166.204.230> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32C6E46D.A29@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080003012960322230001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a7ukc$ht6@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0401972142110001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <AEF480839668C9BC@ppp-8.ens.fr> <ldo-0801971914030001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b04p7$2s2@www.langen.bull.de> <Jonas.Palm-0901971307220001@jp.orgk2.lth.se> In article <Jonas.Palm-0901971307220001@jp.orgk2.lth.se>, Jonas.Palm@orgk1.lu.se (Jonas Palm) wrote: > I reread the original UnixWorld article on the NextCube when the deal > was announced. > > It shipped with 4 (four) MB of RAM. > You could buy another 4 MB for $1995. Do you have an URL for this? Or do you refer to the article when the NeXT first shipped? Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:56:08 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-0801971345150001@199.166.204.230> <AEF97BE2-80ECC@198.68.42.165> In article <AEF97BE2-80ECC@198.68.42.165>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > GX is an optimized database of graphical objects. "Optomized database" under Sys 7? That's like "fresh from the freezer". > If you put it into OOPS > and have it call DPS from outside the interpreter, you're adding two layers > of slowdown to something that is considerably faster than DPS. Not at all, the object layer is still there, the stuff inside is DPS rather than QD. I think you're reading too much into what GX does in this regard, the renderer is a renderer, the objects are objects. Sure the GX/DPS objects might be different than the GX/GX Renderer objects, but no one uses them anyway. Maury
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 9 Jan 1997 11:58:58 GMT Organization: Pinguin an Bord. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b2mi2$7qh@white.koehntopp.de> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <1997010822404556583@yellow-orl-39.wanadoo.fr> serge.rossi@wanadoo.fr (Serge Rossi) writes: >Stephan Schaem <t21@ix.netcom.com> écrivait : >> Not broken... MMX is for 'integer' work, and the x86 is not that horrible >> for integer work... what MMX do is work with data array, and I dont think >> any CPU untill very recently offer this. can a PPC multiply 8 value and clip >> each individual result in 1 cycle? >Can a Pentium MMX access 8 values in memory in 1 cycle ? No ! >And there is few common programs who need this kind of integer work. >MMX will be very interesting for games ! "Can a PPC multiply 8 values and clip each individual result in 1 cycle?" It can't. The question is: Should it? This is from the c't 1/97, page 233 (translation by me): begin grey box. MMX vs. PowerPC: sobering Thanks to MMX certain multimedia applications on the Pentium are sped up by a factor of four or five. Great. But when Pentiums main competitor, PPC, is given the same tasks, this impressive gain is somewhat less impressive. We have given Intels parade example, texturizing, to the competition. The PPC was represented by a Power Computing PowerBase 200 (PPC 603e/200MHz, Apple Performa Board) and an older Power Macintosh 7500 with a newer CPU board (PPC 604e/150 MHz). The PPC 604e should really be compared to a PentiumPro, but it fits into our little test, because even with CPU board it is much cheaper than a MMX Pentium. Even the little PPC does our little test only 20% slower than the MMX chip. The 604e is even a little faster, despite the slower clock [The MMX was 200 MHz -- KK ]. And that's with normal, slightly optimized C code on the PPCs, while the Pentium was driven by handoptimized assembler code. A Pentium with the same C code and without MMX is left behind by a factor of four. Even the PentiumPro 200 does not come even close. In real world applications, here with a beta of Photoshop 4.0, the MMX is at best en par with PPC, in most cases it is dramatically slower. Adobe praises their Photoshop as 'optimized for MMX', but there are only a few functions that are noticeably sped up. So either Adobes programmers have feared the expensive and error-prone manual assembler coding or MMX is only good for few specialized tasks. Meanwhile Apple has announced multimedia enhancements which are to be integrated into Quickdraw and which will be activated automatically on all systems with a Philips TriMedia-Chip. Before that some US computing papers reported that PPC has nothing to set against Intels MMX concept. They don't need to, so much is clear from our results. end grey box. Other facts from the c't article: MPEG decoding only sped up by 40% (Intels numbers). External specialized hardware is several factors faster. c't has doubts that MPEG-2 (for DVD) can be decoded without external hardware. MIPS and Alpha have announced features comparable to MMX, SUN and HP already have such features. All RISC competitors have more registers than MMX (31 or 32), some can even use MMX and floating point in parallel (MIPS MDMX for example). c't does not recommend a MMX upgrade, except for some special applications. Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "Eigentlich waere ich eher fuer die Einrichtung von de.soc.apathie, aber so wichtig ist mir das auch nicht..." -- ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
From: KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 9 Jan 1997 12:06:08 GMT Organization: Pinguin an Bord. Message-ID: <5b2mvg$7qs@white.koehntopp.de> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) writes: > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's >missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file >without opening an application that knows how to print it. Erm, may I ask how should such a thing be done? I mean, how should the printing subsystem transform for example a stream of saved objects of unknown origin into a sheet of paper? You will need at least a substantial part of the application that created such a document to have this objects reactivate themselves and make themselves print. You may use a printers icon as a short cut to start such this application and invoke its print command, but that should be all. >If the Mac's >desktop printer supports dragging a file icon and dropping it on the desktop >printer icon to print the file, that seems like a nice design. Yes. Kristian -- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "Eigentlich waere ich eher fuer die Einrichtung von de.soc.apathie, aber so wichtig ist mir das auch nicht..." -- ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 9 Jan 1997 18:04:50 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5b3c02$esi@news.xmission.com> References: <jinx6568-0801971238420001@news.sover.net> <5b0s1s$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> <bwdutton-0801972007010001@dav1-2.calweb.com> <5b1upj$48e@news.xmission.com> I'm posting a followup here; my last post on this subject mentioned NeXT's "Interceptor" which I note might be of interest to game developers and should be opened up to all developers. (Right now, only a few developers have the API because NeXT only give it out on a need-to-know basis, and it is hard to demonstrate that need and also pay for the support packages if you're a small game developer...) Anyway, the point of this message is to pass on some information from a person who has used Interceptor and he points out its flaws. While I was well aware of them when I wrote my previous article, I omitted mention of them because I felt the article was already too long. So, with his permission, I will append Allan Noordvyk's comments to this post. (He tried to post it, but thinks that his comapny's firewall might have eaten the post, so I'm reposting it now.) Finally, while these issues must be considered by game developers, I still stand by my comments that Rhapsody should work just fine as a game platform. In fact, it could well turn out to be a stellar game platform... and I plan, as a developer, to find out for sure--via real world experience--as soon as I can do so. I've got plenty of code I'm ready to port! :-) -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: allan@ali.bc.ca (Allan Noordvyk) In comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,com p.sys.mac.advocacy Don Yacktman wrote: > bwdutton@ucdavis.edu (Bradley W. Dutton) wrote: > > Since we are on the subject of games, how will they run on the projected > > NeXtMacOS? Just yesterday I heard my roomate complaining about how slow > > WinNT is compared to Win95 when playing games, even when the game is set > > to the highest priority on the NT system. Will the NeXtMacOS be so > > multitasked and protected that performance on games will decline? Any > > information or views would be greatly appreciated. > > ... [ good coverage of the game issues omitted ] ... > > Note that NeXT has a non-public API that would be perfect for > game writers called the Interceptor. NeXT Doom makes use of > this API--it allows you to "punch a hole" in DPS and splat an > image right into the frame buffer. The performance of games > that use it seems to be quite good. If that API were opened up > to developers in general, performance would not be a concern. > Of course, the blue box compatability mode will probably suffer > a little bit--the more software layers you put around an app, > the slower it will run. Apple claims it won't be too bad, > though, so we'll have to wait and see, I guess. As someone whose done some Interceptor programming (but only under NS 3.3) I would like to add that in many situations it is not worth the trouble, as the performance increase doesn't merit the added complexity of having to deal with all of the different pixel encodings used by the various pieces of video hardware available to people. With DPS you just write one chunk of code and let the window server and the video card driver deal with the color-depth and encoding issues. However, if you start using the Interceptor you all of a sudden loose that abstraction and have to handle a Red-8-Green-8-Blue-8-Ignore-8 differently than a Blue-8-Green-8-Red-8 frame buffer. You can also draw anywhere on the screen (ie. in places you didn't intend) just by making a small error in pointer arithmetic. Fortunately you can just use one of your windows as a mop to clean up the mess. With a little cleverness you can shield the higher level calls from some of these issues, but you are just replacing NeXT's level of abstraction with one of your own. Presumably yours is faster since it is a less general solution, but don't count on it. NeXT has some pretty good engineers who know how to optimize code. It is also a pain in the butt to debug Interceptor apps, especially if the window takes up a good portion of your screen real-estate. The reason is that the app being debugged has to be consulted when you are going to obscure its hole. Thus if the app is stopped at a break-point and the debugger is trying to pop-up an Edit window which intersects the hole, you get to wait for the window server to decide that the app isn't responding (5-10 seconds) before you can do *anything* while the window server is blocked (the only time this can happen in NeXTSTEP AFAIK). There is also a practical limit to the number of simultaneous holes you can punch in the window server before the overhead of coordinating the two drawing modes costs you as much or more time as is gained by using Interceptor in the first place. This isn't going to be a problem for most simple game applications, but more complex ones which have parts in which you want to use conventional DPS-based UI components can lead to the need for multiple rectangular holes. Note that you can put the DPS UI-elements in seperate panels, but you have to be sure that these won't overlap any of the holes, since then the Interceptor has to switch from direct to frame buffer drawing to a buffered mode which is slightly slower. Fun stuff also happens if you have a multi-headed system and drag an window containing and Interceptor hole across screen boundaries. The Interceptor is a cool piece of code and is *extremely* useful in certain situations but it is not the panacea that many NeXT programmers think it is. PS: I cc'd Mike Paquette so that he can correct any of my misconceptions, especially w.r.t. how Interceptor works in OpenStep. Of course, he is probably drowning in Apple technical documents right now... -- Allan Noordvyk, Software Artisan e-mail: allan@ali.bc.ca ALI Technologies Voice: 604.279.5422 x 317 Richmond, Canada Fax: 604.279.5468 * NeXT and MIME mail welcome * "Trespassers will be." -- Buddhist warning sign
From: jburton@nwu.edu (Joshua W. Burton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 9 Jan 1997 18:14:10 GMT Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, IL, US Message-ID: <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <5b16a4$sdo@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > Hi Josh, remember me? I bought a bunch of ODs from you some years > back. Of course: all 126 names I wrote on all those boxes and shipping forms at 3 in the morning are engraved forever in my mind. Especially the one who sent me delicious German chocolates! > Actually, you're saying what I've been thinking for a long time. > But when I shared my thoughs with others I got a lot of "hmmm"s, > and that was about it. Still I'm convinced that that is exactly > the way it works. Look at DOS/Windows/95/NT: Lots of problems > -> lots of magazines to help you -> lots of advertising space. > Lots of problems -> lots of utility applications -> lots of > trouble with the utilities -> lots of magazines -> ... Compare > with NeXTs: No problems -> No utilities -> No magazines -> Lots > of productivity, but nobody notices the thing exists at all. Yep, it's a sad world. Maybe we should stay away from this Apple thing, now that we're suddenly popular, and try to push for a GnuBe port or something. Actually, that name is kind of cute, huh? > > Equipment grant expiring? | > > For a new terminal, drive | > > nail in HERE ===> (*) | > > I printed your message to read at home. Now I have a paper nailed > to my desk. How do I get a new terminal? Turn the desk upside-down (after putting an old terminal on it, of course) and try to shake the paper loose. This only works if your grant covers your home machine, obviously. Okay, who put this |====================================================== `stop payment' on my | Joshua W. Burton (847)677-3902 jburton@nwu.edu reality check? |======================================================
From: indy@pachacuti.is.com (Steve Weintz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: .places .dir and .opendir files Date: 9 Jan 1997 18:09:23 GMT Organization: Integrity Solutions, Inc. Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b3c8j$9at@medusa.is.com> References: <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> In article <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> william@mathworks.com (William York) writes: > > What are these files for: > > .dir.tiff > .dir3_o.wmd > .opendir.tiff > .places3_0.wmd > > I've seen them in a few packages from ftp sites... dir.tiff and .opendir.tiff are the directory icons, one open, one closed. The others are files Workspace Manager writes to store where your onscreen windows are. -- | Steve Weintz | "The Deliverator's car packs enough potential energy | indy@is.com | in its batteries to fire a pound of bacon into the | 612.686.4085 | Asteroid Belt." -- Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
From: Robb Lincoln <n9549957@waldorf.cc.wwu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:41:37 -0800 Organization: Western Washington University Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.970108163814.18339C-100000@waldorf.cc.wwu.edu> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> <5auhnb$98d@bignews.shef.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <5auhnb$98d@bignews.shef.ac.uk> On 7 Jan 1997, mmalcolm crawford wrote: > There seems to be little reason now to continue this debate -- I point to > Robert P. Lee's (President and CEO, Insignia Solutions) comments... > > "The combination of Apple and NeXT has created a synergy that is sure to > ignite enthusiasm and support from the Macintosh community. Separately, these > two companies have distinct and respected personalities, but together their > combined strengths will establish the clear direction that Apple ISVs and > customers are looking for." > > Would that the former part were more true. Rest assured, there are plenty of macusers VERY excited about incorperating new approaches and technologies. Don't let the frightened few color your preceptions of the entire group. Peace, Brother!! RWL
From: Robb Lincoln <n9549957@waldorf.cc.wwu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: When will the Press get a clue??? was: Apple to release i586 hardware? Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:15:54 -0800 Organization: Western Washington University Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.970108170739.18339D-100000-100000-100000@waldorf.cc.wwu.edu> References: <5a401k$jrj@news.next.com> <5a7tc3$i7u@usenet.rpi.edu> <jak-ya023680003112960027490001@news.asu.edu> <-3112962354090001@slc-ut2-18.ix.netcom.com> <1997010514570523637@p026.gor.euronet.nl> <remedies-0501971506210001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <rvtaylor-0801971119150001@192.0.2.1> Just goes to show that complete CRAP can be published in the name or "reporting". How many times did Amelio, Hancock and others state on stage that CURRENTLY SHIPPING PPC PLATFORMS ***WILL*** SUPPORT THE NEW OS! the sad thing is that the casual observer (including Wall Street) won't pick up on this FUD 'cuse they aren't paying attention. GOD <bless> THE PRESS!!! On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, R. Taylor wrote: <clip> > From EduPage Jan 7 > > APPLE'S CORE WAXES RHAPSODIC <clip> > several years. (Wall Street Journal 7 Jan 97 B6) The new line of machines > is necessary because the Next-based system won't run on any of the existing > Macs, including those using the popular Motorola 680x0 line of chips. It > will, however, run on Intel-based computers now using Windows 95 and Windows > NT. (Tampa Tribune 7 Jan 97 B&F8) > > -- > rvtaylor@netcom.com RWL
From: christw@lexis-nexis.com (Christopher C. Wood) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 9 Jan 1997 18:48:55 GMT Organization: LEXIS-NEXIS, Dayton OH Message-ID: <5b3ein$4ie@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> In article <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) writes: |> My personal felling: If motorola had put as much effort in a 68070 |> as intel did with their Ppro we probably would have had something |> totaly amazing. Unfortunately, Intel was selling 10x as many '486s as Motorola was selling 68040s. This (very roughly) means that Intel had 10x the resources to pour into Pentium and PPro as Motorola had to spend on 68060 and (purely hypothetical) 68070. Ya gotta stay in business. Sales volumes and Alliances are the way to go. IBM and Motorola joining forces was a good thing. What happened to all the other 32-bit processor architectures from the early '80s? None are left as general-purpose CPUs for computers. Every one got creamed by x86's sales volumes. Of the processor architectures currently on the market: x86, HPPA, PPC, Alpha, MIPS, SPARC, ARM, etc. which ones are going to have the sales volumes to keep up, and which ones won't generate enough revenues to pay for the research and engineering of the next generation? Chris -- Speaking only for myself, of course. Chris Wood christw@lexis-nexis.com cats@CFAnet.com
From: ftouhi@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Majid Ftouhi) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Printer for NextStep/Intel ???? Date: 9 Jan 1997 18:54:11 GMT Organization: Universite de Montreal Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b3esj$b57@epervier.CC.UMontreal.CA> HI There: I have NextStep/Intel, and i want to buy a printer (without postscript). Does anyone know if i can use HP LaserJet 5L? If not is there an other printer not too expencive that i can use? Thanks in advance -- Majid Ftouhi
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: An apology to all (Was Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 12:13:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFA945C-8BF38@198.68.42.200> References: <199701091204286936233@[205.164.85.14]> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several Apple and NeXT engineers have e-mailed me to tell me how bogus my claims about NeXTtime abilities and Apple engineers, etc., have been. SOrry to all to contribute more than my usual share of FUD and rumor. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 12:35:05 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz <maury@softarc.com> said: >In article <AEF97BE2-80ECC@198.68.42.165>, "Lawson English" ><english@primenet.com> wrote: > >> GX is an optimized database of graphical objects. > > "Optomized database" under Sys 7? That's like "fresh from the freezer". > Sure. As long as no context-switching is taking place due to 68K calls, why wouldn't it be optimized? The data would be kept in RAM unless you're talking about a relatively large data set. >> If you put it into OOPS >> and have it call DPS from outside the interpreter, you're adding two layers >> of slowdown to something that is considerably faster than DPS. > > Not at all, the object layer is still there, the stuff inside is DPS >rather than QD. I think you're reading too much into what GX does in this >regard, the renderer is a renderer, the objects are objects. Sure the >GX/DPS objects might be different than the GX/GX Renderer objects, but no >one uses them anyway. I think that you don't understand GX, even as well as I do (and I'm still reading the manuals). GX isn't implemented as a class library, but as an optimized database engine. GX objects aren't even OOP objects. The GXShape reference is an index of some kind into the GX data base. The creation of a new default shape object of a given type fills in the 9 attributes with the GX type and a reference to the default objects of each of 8 attributes. That could be speeded up even further by merely setting a flag to specify that some/all of the 8 attributes are actually a reference to its respective default. YOu can, of course, modify the attributes and the default object for a given attribute (for a given shape type? RTFM time again). When an object is drawn, any calculations and other shape-specific info are stored in the shape cache and reused as needed. My understanding is that the geometry of the shape is stored in a private list of line segments in such a way that many/most transformations don't require a change to this info. There are probably a lot more behind-the-scenes optimizations going on. DPS calls can't make use of much of this info whereas the GX primitives can because they were designed to. They're also not evoked via a byte-code interpreter so you don't have that overhead. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Apple to release i586 hardware? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Date: 9 Jan 1997 18:31:46 GMT Organization: The University of California at San Diego Message-ID: <5b3dii$gov@news1.ucsd.edu> References: <01bbfdbf$64bbf100$04387880@test1> L. Todd Heberlein (heberlei@NetSQ.com) wrote: : I hope Apple not only chooses to sell, but also actively promote, OpenStep : for Mach for Intel and other hardware as well as OpenStep for Windows NT. : I also hope Apple intends to make sure the <unknown kernel> runs on : Intel-based computers as well. Unless this <unkown kernel> is a derivative of current mach this would require rewritings gadzooks of drivers. : Todd
From: serge.rossi@wanadoo.fr (Serge Rossi) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:30:36 +0100 Organization: Happiness is a computer called Macintosh :-) Distribution: inet Message-ID: <19970109213036289271@yellow-orl-4.wanadoo.fr> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <1997010822404556583@yellow-orl-39.wanadoo.fr> <5b2mi2$7qh@white.koehntopp.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kristian Köhntopp <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> écrivait : > "Can a PPC multiply 8 values and clip each individual result in > 1 cycle?" > > It can't. The question is: Should it? Multiplying 8 values at a time is 8 times faster only if you get these 8 values from the memory at the same time ! Of course, it can't. The memory is not 8 times faster :-) IMHO, even without MMX like functions, today's processors are very memory bound. This greatly reduces the interest of these SIMD instructions. > This is from the c't 1/97, page 233 (translation by me): > > begin grey box. > > MMX vs. PowerPC: sobering Very interesting ;-) -- Email : Serge.Rossi@wanadoo.fr ; Serge.Rossi@renault.fr Fidonet : 2:320/405.42 ; 2:320/109.42 First Class : Serge Rossi,Ellis Web : http://www.burpteam.home.ml.org/
From: marcel@sysyem.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 21:11:37 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b3mu9$irl$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <rex-ya023080000901970755250001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080000901970755250001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) writes: > In article <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de > (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > )You can only compare the rendering times using the appropriate generic file > )formats. View a file containing native GX objects on a Mac, then view a > )PostScript file that gives the same optical output result on a DPS machine. > > GX Maker does an actual Postscript -> GX PDD translation. It takes a > *long* time, but the results when done are pretty impressive. The GX PDD > will display and redraw faster than the Adobe Acrobat PDF that was used to > generate the PS file used in the conversion. The Acrobat-Reader thing again. Sigh. Acrobat Reader on the Mac is much slower than the various Acrobat readers on NextStep with comparable hardware ( 33Mhz 68040 Mac, 25 Mhz 68040 NeXT cube), at least in my experience. Waaaayyy slower. Pages that pop up instantly on the NeXT take several seconds on the Mac. So please don't generalize from Acrobat on the Mac (presumably using Quickdraw somewhere along the line) to DPS running natively. Marcel
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:16:31 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971616470001@199.166.204.230> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <rex-ya023080000701970425080001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <rex-ya023080000701971818480001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-0801971341410001@199.166.204.230> <5b335a$6e9@News.Dal.Ca> In article <5b335a$6e9@News.Dal.Ca>, jc@or.psychology.dal.ca (John Christie) wrote: > The recent tests in MacWorld showed that QT 2.5 goes up in speed > something like a factor of 1.8 to 1.9 when on a dual 180 as opposed to a > single. I'll live with that until SMP brings me 2.0. I thought AMP > wouldn't be nearly as good as it is but when you read about what it is > capable of in action the advantages of SMP appear very small indeed. That's not the issue, the idea of using a specific API that the _developer_ must use in order to get MP features is a bad bad thing. The fact that time from one of the CPU's is used to control this is even worse, considering it's the "master" CPU and is subject to 100% outages from I/O and other tasks (heck, hold down the mouse on a menu and then tell me how good the API is). Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:18:17 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971618330001@199.166.204.230> References: <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> <AEFA7919-2573B@198.68.42.166> In article <AEFA7919-2573B@198.68.42.166>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > GX would have to be faster than the equivalent PS for something like this, > merely because any GX-like implementation would need to call DPS via the > interpreter whereas GX would be doing "atomic" calls to its own internal > drawing routines for drawing each object. Only if they don't put DPS in User and don't map it into your memory space. I can see no theoretical reason why GX over DPS would be any slower than GX is now, at least not if DPS is as fast a renderer as GX is. Maury
From: bayko@borealis.cs.uregina.ca (John Bayko) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: RISC vs. CISC? Date: 9 Jan 1997 21:05:25 GMT Organization: University of Regina, Dept. of Computer Science Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b3mil$jrc@sue.cc.uregina.ca> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211> <petrichE3oLqK.9Ln@netcom.com> In article <petrichE3oLqK.9Ln@netcom.com>, Loren Petrich <petrich@netcom.com> wrote: >* There are a large number of registers (32 in the case of the PowerPC). > >This helps avoid making a lot of memory accesses, since intermediate >results can often be stored in some register. A downside is that for a >function call (say), there are that many more values to be stored and >loaded. Parameters can be passed in registers, reducing memory accesses when calling functions (leaf functions may even be called with no saves at all). Some RISC processors (SPARC, AMD 29K, 80C166) also have register windows, eliminating register saves completely when calling functions. -- John Bayko (Tau). bayko@cs.uregina.ca http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~bayko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701071835.KAA23087@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: 967f27179daac6720884e1eeedbcc8d9 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 13:35:09 -0500 Subject: Re: getting on web NeXT style Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: 967f27179daac6720884e1eeedbcc8d9 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: Stephen Kreutzer <kreutzer@pipeline.com> Original Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 23:24:20 -0400 > I would like to access the web from my nextcube in addition to my > present access via my mac. Can anybody reccommend a path to get > there: > - The best (inexpensive) modem ? I've got a SupraFaxModem 28.8 that's working quite well with my slab > - Software (Omniweb vs. Netsurfer) OmniWeb is free and has its own listserv for problems. Updates have been frequent. I know nothing from Netsurfer. > - How difficult it is to set up PPP ? Not too bad. Setting up the 'chat' script is the hardest part. > - Other software I might need checkout: http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/must-have.html > - Sources for information on how to set up. The only other thing you'll need is the FoundationUserPatch from NeXTAnswers, it is linked to my NeXT page http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ > I am running NS3.2 on a Next cube. I use the Next for its great > graphics etc. and am not literate in unix etc. You don't have to be. Drop me a note if you run into problems, TjL, happy to meet a Mac user who doesn't seem to despise NeXT -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Awaiting Apple's NeXTStep
From: David Andel <no@spam.de> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 9 Jan 1997 20:58:46 GMT Organization: NEXTTOYOU (http://www.nexttoyou.de) Message-ID: <5b3m66$2ej@colossus.nexttoyou.de> References: <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) writes: [...] > Still I'm convinced that that is exactly the way it works. > Look at DOS/Windows/95/NT: Lots of problems -> lots of magazines to > help you -> lots of advertising space. Lots of problems -> lots of > utility applications -> lots of trouble with the utilities -> lots > of magazines ->... > Compare with NeXTs: No problems -> No utilities -> No magazines -> > Lots of productivity, but nobody notices the thing exists at all. No magazines? But there is this funny little german NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP magazine called NEXTTOYOU. So NeXT still lacks some productivity. Maybe Apple is able to solve this "problem". David (NEXTTOYOU magazine) -- "...he said Captain, I said wot" (Captain Sensible)
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:25:43 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971625590001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-0901971051320001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA782D-21FCE@198.68.42.166> In article <AEFA782D-21FCE@198.68.42.166>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Do a get info from within MoviePlayer (you're using the latest one, right) > and see how many tracks are enabled. Also, make sure that you have the QT > PowerPlug installed. Oh come on Lawson... Maury
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:42:55 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32D317BF.6D5F08@screaming.org> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <nervous-0701972212090001@ascend22.netrover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nervous wrote: > dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > > > > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which > > platform will get the best applications, and get them soonest? > > Whichever one is easier to develop on i.e. OpenStep. Several OpenStep applications (a fine representative sample) were supposed to be shown at MacWorld. Has anybody seen any press reaction to the already-extant application market (albeit small, but high-quality) that Apple just bought-into? I would think that at least one industry-analyst would note this fact. -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:44:45 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32D3182D.497017D7@screaming.org> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <nervous-0701972212090001@ascend22.netrover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nervous wrote: > dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > > > > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which > > platform will get the best applications, and get them soonest? > > Whichever one is easier to develop on i.e. OpenStep. Several OpenStep applications (a fine representative sample) were supposed to be shown at MacWorld. Has anybody seen any press reaction to the already-extant application market (albeit small, but high-quality) that Apple just bought-into? I would think that at least one industry-analyst would note this fact...or the even more interesting fact that several OpenStep Apps are owned by Sun Microsystems now, which purchased Lighthouse Design a while back. Did Lighthouse grab a booth at MacWorld? -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@peak.org> Message-ID: <199701071809.KAA18974@PEAK.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: eb5cf42905c559f196bb939bb4aed3e5 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@peak.org> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 13:09:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: eb5cf42905c559f196bb939bb4aed3e5 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: cwood41@maine.maine.edu (Christopher Wood) Original Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 13:03:18 -0500 > But whether the Finder is more intuitive or not, there's a bigger > issue -- Apple needs to make this OS feel like an evolutionary step > up from the current MacOS (a big evolutionary step, but an > evolutionary step nonetheless). Unfortunately, superior technology > and superior design don't by themselves sell computers or OSes -- > Apple first and foremost has to protect its current users and keep > its third-party developers on board. And I think that completely > ditching the Finder might be a bad mistake in this regard. You can get a thousand open windows with NeXTStep if you want to. It seems to me rather simple to think that if there isn't a Finder, someone will write one. I can almost guarantee that if there isn't a File Viewer, someone from NeXTStep will. Of course, it would be best if the folks involved give us the option of using one or the other. Again, the basic GUI might be the best way to show people you have something new, but that should be balanced with the familiar if you think Mac users won't be able to cope with too much change at once. I think the Finder isn't very useful compared to the File Viewer, mostly from what I've heard about it from here. Sounds like the File Viewer would be much faster to use.... That doesn't really matter though, what is important is that it sounds like there's enough support on each side of this that I'd bet we'll see both, either as part of MacStep or as a 3rd party app. TjL, holding his breath for reports from MacExpo -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Awaiting Apple's NeXTStep
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:38:55 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> In article <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Sure. As long as no context-switching is taking place due to 68K calls, why > wouldn't it be optimized? Do you mean aside from the fact that every system call generates a 68k call to the trap table? > GX isn't implemented as a class library, but as an optimized database > engine. GX objects aren't even OOP objects. A problem, not a feature. > When an object is drawn, any calculations and other shape-specific info are > stored in the shape cache and reused as needed. My understanding is that > the geometry of the shape is stored in a private list of line segments in > such a way that many/most transformations don't require a change to this > info. There are probably a lot more behind-the-scenes optimizations going > on. > > DPS calls can't make use of much of this info whereas the GX primitives can > because they were designed to. They're also not evoked via a byte-code > interpreter so you don't have that overhead. I see what you're saying, but you seem to be forgetting that it's the GX system calling DPS, and not the other way around. There's no reason why a warpper system couldn't "precompile" the code into a cache of byte code, change DPS, or simply rely on the fact that the DPS interpreter is running on a machine that's something on the order of 100 times as fast as my old IIcx on which GX ran fine. I don't really see a problem here. Maury
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: OpenStep Application Market Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:45:09 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32D31845.609C87CB@screaming.org> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <jinx6568-0601971418390001@news.sover.net> <32d29497.56064776@snews.zippo.com> <nervous-0701972212090001@ascend22.netrover.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nervous wrote: > dehoog@bc.mbn.or.jp wrote: > > > > You forgot the most important one: Applications. Which > > platform will get the best applications, and get them soonest? > > Whichever one is easier to develop on i.e. OpenStep. Several OpenStep applications (a fine representative sample) were supposed to be shown at MacWorld. Has anybody seen any press reaction to the already-extant application market (albeit small, but high-quality) that Apple just bought-into? I would think that at least one industry-analyst would note this fact...or the even more interesting fact that several OpenStep Apps are owned by Sun Microsystems now, which purchased Lighthouse Design a while back. Did Lighthouse grab a booth at MacWorld? -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 8 Jan 1997 01:53:24 GMT Organization: The University of California at San Diego Message-ID: <5auumk$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu> References: <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> Terry Wilcox (terry@arcane.com) wrote: : Rapid Remedies wrote: : > : > Apple did not spend millions and millions of dollars on Quickdraw GX after : > looking at DPS to just end up using DPS. They can be short sighted : > (frequently), but not suicidal. There is no way that DPS has a future in : > the next Mac OS. : I'm actually kind of impressed by this statement. It sums up the Mac : user sentiment so concisely. Capitalism 101: Ignore sunk costs. The future is only what matters. Why does it matter if they spent many millions of dollars before on QDGX? What do customers want? They have Postscript printers. They really would like RELIABLE, EXACT, FAST postscript previewing and imaging. It works very well on the NeXT, better than any other computer I've seen. mbk Not a mac or Next user. I've been waiting for NeXT or Apple to get their brains in gear for the last 10 years. We were at exactly this same point in technology 8 years ago. That was before Windows 3.0, way before Java.
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 15:58:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFAC944-59E39@198.68.42.195> References: <maury-0901971616470001@199.166.204.230> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That's not the issue, the idea of using a specific API that the >_developer_ must use in order to get MP features is a bad bad thing. The >fact that time from one of the CPU's is used to control this is even >worse, considering it's the "master" CPU and is subject to 100% outages >from I/O and other tasks (heck, hold down the mouse on a menu and then >tell me how good the API is). Movie-player continues to play at least MIDI movies without pause when I hold down the mouse on a menu. I don't know how it works with video since I lost my internal drive a few days ago with all my regular neat stuff on it. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: 9 Jan 1997 22:38:54 GMT Organization: Omni Development, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b3s1u$ptt@gaea.titan.org> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> Kevin Palmer <kpalmer@neosoft.com> wrote: > Jeff Dallacqua wrote: > > > > On 28 Dec 1996 06:53:37 GMT, andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com > > wrote: > > > > >For those who don't know, Trilobyte used NeXTstep to create 7th Guest > > >and 11th Hour. Id used NeXTstep to create Doom and Quake. > > > > Weren't the video sequences for 7th Guest(and maybe 11th Hour) > > done with 3DStudio(although I guess this doesn't necessarily mean > > they didn't use NeXTstep for any of it)? > > -- I am almost positive that the images on 7th guest were done in > Alias|Wavefront Power Animator on the SGI. It was a while back when I > read the article. I have no idea what platform the artwork was done on. The engine was done on NeXTstep. -- andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com - NeXTmail & MIME ok
From: Greg Alexander <galexand@ozemail.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Mac compatibility in Rhapsody Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:24:10 +1100 Organization: University of NSW Student Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D57E1A.6E9@ozemail.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi. I read through the announcements and general info from the Mac expo, and I didn't like what I read about mac compatibility in Rhapsody - so I thought I'd check here to see if I misunderstood! The compatibility will run as an entire current MacOS (meaning all the current Mac apps can kill each other, but not other Rhapsody applications, like the original Windows 3.1 support in NT) BUT, the entire MacOS environment will run in ONE WINDOW. So all of your old applications will be in this one window, while any Rhapsody stuff will have whatever windows it wants. That seems awful - so someone please tell me I misunderstood. Greg (BTW Would integrating the displays be that hard? At worst couldn't an X-window 3rd party program send the windows from the MacOS environment through to the Rhapsody environment?)
From: rzeman@his.com (Rick Zeman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 18:48:07 -0500 Organization: None Message-ID: <rzeman-0901971848070001@shiva1-mclean-210.his.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <rzeman-0101972041150001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101972230330001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301972140450001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5aj612$ied@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <ldo-0701972107290001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b2vcf$lbi@bignews.shef.ac.uk> In article <5b2vcf$lbi@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> wrote: |On 01/06/97, Lawrence DčOliveiro wrote: snip | |> Funnily enough--have a look at Tumbler |> <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/sw/index.html#Tumbler>, which I believe is |> the lowest-cost tool for producing PDF files with high-quality text and |> graphics on *any* platform. Some samples of its output are available at |> <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/>. |> |Is it free? Yup. And since Lawrence didn't mention it, I will. He's the author of Tumbler. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Rick Zeman In our secret world, we will collide mailto:rzeman@his.com In all of the places we were hiding love Will Rogers never met Bill Clinton What was it we were thinking of?
From: Eirik Mangseth <emangset@online.no> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:50:30 +0100 Organization: United Consultants A/S Message-ID: <32D58446.2FD4@online.no> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> <5aprft$af9@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit crobato@kuentos.guam.net wrote: > > In <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) writes: > >lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: > > > >>Robert Iacullo writes: > >>: jmiller wrote: > >>: > > >>: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: > >>: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) > >>: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > > > >>: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > > > >> Where can I buy one? > >> Cheers.. > > > >Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: > >"We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand > >megahertz or a gigahertz." > >(http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) > > > >By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest > >mainframe/any cpu? > > > > Way lower than this. I think about 300MHz. > > It does not matter. Mainframes are not about MHz, just as super computers are > not as well. They are about fail safe reliability. They are about > multitentacled, multprocessor monsters with lotsa processors running in > parallel, talking to each other through buses that zip gigabytes per sec. > > Rgds, > > Chris > > Famous People on the Day Windows 95 is Launched--- > Neil Armstrong---"One Small Fortune for Bill Gates, > One Giant Leap backward for Mankind." > President Roosevelt---"This date shall live in infamy." > *** crobato@kuentos.guam.net *** TKS for the Contributions. Not only that, they've got an I/O subsystem that runs in circles around any so-called server based on e.g. x86. Eirik
From: bbq@wam.umd.edu (BBQ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Mac compatibility in Rhapsody Date: 9 Jan 1997 21:02:44 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland, College Park Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b4804$i3v@rac10.wam.umd.edu> References: <32D57E1A.6E9@ozemail.com.au> In article <32D57E1A.6E9@ozemail.com.au>, Greg Alexander <galexand@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > >Rhapsody applications, like the original Windows 3.1 support in NT) one could consider continuing using 7.5 until Rhapsody is fully compatible, just like the 3.1 people did when there was also NT. Not great, and quite obvious, I am the first to admit >BUT, the entire MacOS environment will run in ONE WINDOW. So >all of your old applications will be in this one window, while >any Rhapsody stuff will have whatever windows it wants. Having used NeXT slabs in the past, you could run its X and the X window took up the entire screen, so there really isn't a big problem, except whatever real estate is lost to window framing. >Greg >(BTW Would integrating the displays be that hard? At worst > couldn't an X-window 3rd party program send the windows from > the MacOS environment through to the Rhapsody environment?) see above hope this helps bbq
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:43:22 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972243360001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: >In <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Homer Simpson >wrote: >[...] >> Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 >> separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent >> colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to >> completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster >> DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? > >DPS. > >BTW, does GX really have to loop through all the objects five times to make >sure everything is drawed? =8-[=] See, if YOU don't know the answer to this question, you CLEARLY have no basis for answering the original poster's question. DO YOU program in both DPS and GX to know the difference? Qualify your answer - or it's about as good as telling us how nice the rains on Titan are this time of year. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: .places .dir and .opendir files Date: 10 Jan 1997 02:52:15 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5b4asv$ebp@news.xmission.com> References: <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> william@mathworks.com (William York) wrote: > What are these files for: > > .dir.tiff The icon to display for a directory instead of the standard folder. > .dir3_0.wmd Stores the shape and size of the browser that will be used when you do a sommand-O (from WorkSpace) on the directory. > .opendir.tiff The icon to display for a directory when you drag a file over it instead of the standard opened folder. > .places3_0.wmd Stores the locations of the icons in the Icon View for a particular directory. > I've seen them in a few packages from ftp sites... Hope that helps. All the files are used by WorkSpace to do its GUI magic. -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: R.J.Patel@massey.ac.nz (Raj Patel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:18:01 +1300 Organization: Massey University College Of Education Distribution: world Message-ID: <R.J.Patel-ya023480001001971018010001@news.massey.ac.nz> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) wrote: > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's > missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file > without opening an application that knows how to print it. As a Mac user I'm fairly certain that when you drop a file onto a desktop printer it actually starts the app and prints from there. The same thing happens when you select a file in the finder and use print from the file menu. The neat thing about desktop printing is that once the job is queued-up you can do different things to it. eg hold the queue (useful for printing away from the office on laptops), move jobs from one desktop printer to another etc. > If the Mac's > desktop printer supports dragging a file icon and dropping it on the desktop > printer icon to print the file, that seems like a nice design. Apparently the kludge involved to get desktop printing to work is pretty awesome :-) I guess if they include it from scratch things will be better. Raj.
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 10 Jan 1997 03:27:25 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b4cut$9u8@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <5b2mvg$7qs@white.koehntopp.de> KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) wrote: > aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) writes: > > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's > >missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file > >without opening an application that knows how to print it. > Erm, may I ask how should such a thing be done? I mean, how > should the printing subsystem transform for example a stream of > saved objects of unknown origin into a sheet of paper? You will > need at least a substantial part of the application that > created such a document to have this objects reactivate > themselves and make themselves print. Sure, but it would be nice not to have to launch the app itself either by double-clicking the icon representing the file to be printed or the app itself which usually will needlessly display the file when all I want to do is print. > You may use a printers icon as a short cut to start such this > application and invoke its print command, but that should be > all. Yeah, that's all I meant. Drag-and-drop the file icon onto a printer icon, Workspace Manager opens the app that knows how to print this file and opens its Print panel with any Print panel accessory view that might be supplied by the app, and the usual Print panel procedure is then completed by the user at which point the app that printed the file quits. D.O. could be used to do much of this. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:36:02 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-0901972236180001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-0901971616470001@199.166.204.230> <AEFAC944-59E39@198.68.42.195> In article <AEFAC944-59E39@198.68.42.195>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > Movie-player continues to play at least MIDI movies without pause when I > hold down the mouse on a menu. I don't know how it works with video since I > lost my internal drive a few days ago with all my regular neat stuff on it. My God Lawson, what happened to you? Try it with a MOVIE, not something like a MIDI file which can be buffered so much. And even a MIDI file will die out after a while if you continue to hold it down. Look, this isn't multiprocessing in any productive fashion except for a group of people that get to put it to good use, for most of us it's useless. Maury
From: zizi zhao <ziziz@worldnet.att.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:44:03 -0500 Organization: @univ Message-ID: <32D60153.767F@worldnet.att.net> References: <jinx6568-0801971238420001@news.sover.net> <5b0s1s$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> <bwdutton-0801972007010001@dav1-2.calweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >... Just yesterday I heard my roomate complaining about how slow >WinNT is compared to Win95 when playing games, even when the game is set >to the highest priority on the NT system. Will the NeXtMacOS be so >multitasked and protected that performance on games will decline? Any >information or views would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, >Brad > >-- >Bradley W. Dutton >EE Major >U.C. Davis The performance of running DOS games on NT systems comparing win3.1/95 is hard to be improved because DOS is native in win3.1/95, but an emulator in NT. An emulator often slow down the process and can reduce the performance to 50%, which is reasonable. That is why some linuxers are trying to implement a native DOS on PC-Linux to get decent DOS game performance on Linux. ZiZi
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:02:05 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972202180001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <5ao7n7$rhf$1@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq32n$r0d@duke.squonk.net> In article <5aq32n$r0d@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: >They have also said, many times, how wonderful Copland was going >to be. Guess what. Copland ain't going to happen. The kernel >from Copland may be part of the new OS, but the original >Copland/Gershwin plans are gone. They don't exist. Incorrect. They do exist - no corporation is so blind as to actually incinerate plans. They simply archive them. >Apple can stick up it's nose at industry-standard technology >if it wants, but I don't think it can afford to. Sure, talk >about how perfect QuickDrawGX is. Rip out native postscript >support in the new operating system. Fuck over everyone, just >as long as you can say you're doing it for "superior technology". Fuck over everyone? Who is everyone? cm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: tbutler@tfs.net (Travis Butler) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:13:20 -0600 Organization: The Wandering Powerbook... Message-ID: <AEFB1E009668835CB@travis.tfs.net> References: <5apbso$4km@News.Dal.Ca> <32D06305.162@arcane.com> In article <32D06305.162@arcane.com>, Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com> wrote: >That doesn't portend the falling of the sky. Mac users' predictions that >Apple will collapse if Apple uses any one of: > >a) NeXTstep interface >b) Objective-C >c) DPS >d) NeXTstep kernel >e) anything else Apple didn't develop themselves > >is what I was talking about. > >Apple seems to be fighting against NIH syndrome. Mac users seem to be >embracing NIH syndrome. <Sarcasam on> I don't suppose you considered any other possible cause besides NIH syndrome? <Sarcasam off> Sorry for the flame, but this attitude is really starting to get on my nerves. Admittedly, I can't speak for all users. However, I (and most of the Mac users I actually know and work with) am actually *happy* with the design and operation of the current Mac interface. The only major things I wanted to see out of the next major MacOS revision were: greater speed; greater stability; and the seamless integration of all of the OS components that have accumulated in the last couple of years, to *reduce* complexity. (These are also the issues that many Mac pundits/commentators have brought up as the 'important' issues, BTW.) In other words, the only major 'visible' changes I wanted to see would be to *reduce* complexity; everything else I want to see changed is under the hood. I don't want to see any wholesale reworking in the rest of the interface, because I'm happy with the way it works now. How is this a case of NIH syndrome? (I don't mind seeing minor changes and refinements of the interface; after all, that's how the MacOS got to have the interface I like. But going with the NeXTstep interface is not a minor refinement; it's tossing out the Mac interface and replacing it with something else.) I can't speak with the same authority on the other topics, since they're programmer issues and it's been years since I've done serious programming. But at least on the kernel, what I hear sounds more like a case of the NeXT partisans having NIH syndrome. As I understand it, the main arguments for using Apple's kernel instead of the current Mach-based NeXTstep kernel are things like 'Apple's kernel has better support for hardware features like the PowerBook's power management system.' If this is true about Apple's kernel, and NeXT's kernel doesn't support it... well, IMHO it's at the least an important feature, perhaps an essential feature; to refuse to use Apple's kernel with this needed feature, simply because it wasn't part of NeXTstep, is at least as much NIH. Travis Butler (The Professor, formerly of Myth and Magick!, Lawrence, KS; tbutler@tfs.net, now from the Wandering Powerbook; <http://www.tfs.net/personal/tbutler/>; Mac page <http://www.tfs.net/business/tbutler/>) ...Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:08:19 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972208320001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5av120$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu> In article <5av120$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: >Chris Murphy (remedies@rapidremedies.com) wrote: >: In article <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott >: Anguish) wrote: > > >: > If you think that she is so dedicated to GX, why didn't she just say >: >'GX is our graphics engine of choice'. There is little to lose as far as >: >the NeXT people go, why would she care if she looses them. >: > >: > Do you think that Ms Hancock is so stupid as to answer a question >: >such as that without having 30 people ready to back her up on what she says? >: > >: > She'll have to present a unified front amongst her people. Mixed >: >signals from Apple about this would be damaging. >: > >: > >: > >: > DPS will be in the product. Expect GX to follow and for them both >: >to eventually be on equal terms. > > >: You contradict yourself on a regular basis. You say DPS will be in the >: product contradicting Hancock who hasn't even said. > >Amelio said. > >http://www.macweek.com/mw_macworld_97/nw_keynote.html` > >Jan 7. Quote deleted. Kindof pointless to reply to MY posting above which I said nearly three days before Amelio said this on January 7. cm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:12:02 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972212150001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0501971435110001@den-co36-19.ix.netcom.com> <5aq0ue$512@news.digifix.com> <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <vrotneyE3o8I5.E5y@netcom.com> In article <vrotneyE3o8I5.E5y@netcom.com>, vrotney@netcom.com (William Paul Vrotney) wrote: >In article <5arabg$r4g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art >Isbell) writes: >> What Apple needs to do is to better cover up Unix system administration, >> some of which must still be done using a command-line interface under >> OPENSTEP/Mach. But please don't toss Unix out. >> > >Second that! This was something Amelio said they'd do (cleaning out the remaining "Unixness" of OpenStep) before MacWorld even began, and something Hancock reiterated the other day when she said that (basically) DPS would stay, and core GX function would be integrated -- however DPS is the display mechanism. Keep in mind this is not OpenStep for the Mac. This is the new Mac OS. If you like System 7 - keep System 7. And if you like the Unix features of OpenStep, then keep OpenStep. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:16:15 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972216290001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <32D0156A.8A3@arcane.com> <5auumk$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu> In article <5auumk$mvm@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: >Capitalism 101: Ignore sunk costs. The future is only what matters. > >Why does it matter if they spent many millions of dollars before on >QDGX? > >What do customers want? They have Postscript printers. They really would >like RELIABLE, EXACT, FAST postscript previewing and imaging. This whole discussion is really pointless now, but I want to clarify the fact that 90% of Apple's customers do NOT have PostScript printers. And further, I'd like to say that I'm pleased with the solution Apple has offered. To keep DPS has the display mechanism, and to incorporate core GX technologies into the new OS. I think this provides the best of both worlds, especially since Apple has a schedule to keep (or at least ATTEMPT to keep.) Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: marcel@sysyem.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 08:00:00 GMT Organization: Technical University Berlin, Germany Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b4su0$k74$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> References: <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) writes: > For most things, the overhead of the byte-code interpreter would > probably not be noticeable at all in a fast system, however the > optimizations stemming from advanced GX's retained mode display > architecture would be. DPS could be programmed to keep track of everything > that GX does (it is a language after all) but the memory bloat and 20-40x > speed hit would probably dissuade users and developers from using such a > system. Ahh, finally a number. 20-40x speed penalty. In my opinion that number is completely bogus, and I would certainly like to see you back it up. And please, do try to compare with native DPS systems, not with some Mac application that you think uses something that you think is similar to DPS. Marcel
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:27:58 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972228120001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: >It's so obvious: >If you view a PostScript file on a GX based machine you need to convert from >the PS display model to the GX display model. That takes time. It would be >(theoretically) just as slow to view a GX file on a DPS based machine. This is a load of crap, you clearly know squat about GX. The PS display model used in Acrobat makes calls to QuickDraw, not QuickDraw GX. Whether or not I use GX, Acrobat displays at the same slow speed. It has NOTHING to do with GX. Would Acrobat work better on DPS? I have no doubt. If Acrobat was re-written to take full advantage of GX would it work better. I have bo doubt it would work better than a DPS version. >Besides, the discussion is moot since Apple has already decided to use DPS >and add GX compatibility. Errors in your facts are never moot at any time. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:36:42 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972236560001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <5apl3e$i15@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> In article <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: >And the NeXT engineers will go nuts screaming: > > "You idiots, do you know just how LONG it took to get OpenStep to work > nicely with DPS? Do you REALLY want to break the ONLY native apps > for your new operating system?? I thought you bought us because you > wanted something which WORKED." Well let them scream because there are no native apps for the new operating system in existance. Are you talking about current OpenStep applications? There is no indication those will work on the hybrid operating system. You like System 7, you can run System 7 on your machine - or run apps in the blue box on Rhapsody. You like OpenStep, you can keep OpenStep on your machine. Rhapsody is the new Mac OS - it is not OpenStep. >Kernel updates are necessary only so far as they provide good performance and >high speed support for new hardware. I bet the first kernel will be >Mach because it works. In the future, probably a newer kernel. Depends on how difficult it is to get NuKernel to run with OpenStep instead of Mach. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 07:47:54 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b4s7a$189@www.langen.bull.de> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de> <remedies-0901972243360001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> Cc: remedies@rapidremedies.com In <remedies-0901972243360001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> Chris Murphy wrote: > In article <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de > (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > > >In <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Homer Simpson > >wrote: > >[...] > >> Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 > >> separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent > >> colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to > >> completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster > >> DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? > > > >DPS. [ I admit that answer was simply for provocation, since the original poster seemed to imply it as obvious that GX would be - an assumption that would need to be proven ] > >BTW, does GX really have to loop through all the objects five times to make > >sure everything is drawn? =8-[=] > > See, if YOU don't know the answer to this question, you CLEARLY have no > basis for answering the original poster's question. Well, the original poster said "If you loop 5 times...". I would never do that if I just wanted to redraw the window. So either the posting was not very precise or "Homer Simpson" finds it necessary to redraw everything 5 times from his <asbestos suit on> experience wih GX. > DO YOU program in > both DPS and GX to know the difference? Qualify your answer - or it's > about as good as telling us how nice the rains on Titan are this time of > year. Do you?
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:35:06 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: ) Do you mean aside from the fact that every system call generates a 68k )call to the trap table? Not in the PPC version, I believe that's just a 'normal' shared library. The Copland version is definitely a shared library. )> GX isn't implemented as a class library, but as an optimized database )> engine. GX objects aren't even OOP objects. ) ) A problem, not a feature. Not when there's no standard object format or ORB. SOM doesn't work with a lot of languages on the Mac. Using standard non-OOP C-style calling conventions makes it much easier to interface with other languages. Cuts down overhead too. )change DPS, That's just asking for trouble, IMO. )or simply rely on the fact that the DPS interpreter is running )on a machine that's something on the order of 100 times as fast as my old )IIcx on which GX ran fine. For most things, the overhead of the byte-code interpreter would probably not be noticeable at all in a fast system, however the optimizations stemming from advanced GX's retained mode display architecture would be. DPS could be programmed to keep track of everything that GX does (it is a language after all) but the memory bloat and 20-40x speed hit would probably dissuade users and developers from using such a system. ) I don't really see a problem here. The problem is that using DPS for everything would create a huge performance bottleneck for some applications, in addition to making some things *much* harder for developers to program. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@steeldriving.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:39:46 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Message-ID: <32D5E432.E35@steeldriving.com> References: <5apl3e$i15@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> <remedies-0901972236560001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Murphy wrote: > > In article <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: > > >And the NeXT engineers will go nuts screaming: > > > > "You idiots, do you know just how LONG it took to get OpenStep to work > > nicely with DPS? Do you REALLY want to break the ONLY native apps > > for your new operating system?? I thought you bought us because you > > wanted something which WORKED." > Well let them scream because there are no native apps for the new > operating system in existance. Are you talking about current OpenStep > applications? There is no indication those will work on the hybrid > operating system. You like System 7, you can run System 7 on your machine > - or run apps in the blue box on Rhapsody. You like OpenStep, you can > keep OpenStep on your machine. Rhapsody is the new Mac OS - it is not > OpenStep. This has nothing to do with native apps. This has to do with the operating system itself. Whether you like it or not, the new operating system is, in fact, OpenStep. It is based on the OpenStep frameworks, which depend on Display Postscript. In one form or another, they have depended on Display Postscript for years. They've been tuned, optimized, and tweaked to give optimal performance. Ripping DPS out of OpenStep would be as stupid as ripping QuickDraw out of System 7. > >Kernel updates are necessary only so far as they provide good performance and > >high speed support for new hardware. I bet the first kernel will be > >Mach because it works. In the future, probably a newer kernel. > > Depends on how difficult it is to get NuKernel to run with OpenStep > instead of Mach. Probably non-trivial. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 00:39:47 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b4urd$hiv@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <1997010822404556583@yellow-orl-39.wanadoo.fr> <5b2mi2$7qh@white.koehntopp.de> <19970109213036289271@yellow-orl-4.wanadoo.fr> In article <19970109213036289271@yellow-orl-4.wanadoo.fr>, serge.rossi@wanadoo.fr (Serge Rossi) wrote: >Kristian Köhntopp <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> écrivait : > >> "Can a PPC multiply 8 values and clip each individual result in >> 1 cycle?" >> >> It can't. The question is: Should it? > >Multiplying 8 values at a time is 8 times faster only if you get these 8 >values from the memory at the same time ! Of course, it can't. The >memory is not 8 times faster :-) Its not 8 time faster, but 8 load + 8 mul + cliping + 8 store is longer then a load + cliped mul + store . > >IMHO, even without MMX like functions, today's processors are very >memory bound. This greatly reduces the interest of these SIMD >instructions. > Yes, thats why you want to run at bandwidth speed. And for complex operation where 8 cliped mul are necesary per memory access having it done in parallel is not waisted power. Stephan
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 10 Jan 1997 08:06:35 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b4tab$189@www.langen.bull.de> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> <5aprft$af9@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> <32D58446.2FD4@online.no> Cc: emangset@online.no In <32D58446.2FD4@online.no> Eirik Mangseth wrote: > crobato@kuentos.guam.net wrote: [...] > > >By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest > > >mainframe/any cpu? > > > > > > > Way lower than this. I think about 300MHz. [...] DEC has been shipping 500 MHz Alpha CPUs for some time now. Check out the CPU table at: http://infopad.eecs.berkeley.edu/CIC/summary/local/ Volker
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 00:59:14 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b4vvo$hiv@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <1997010822404556583@yellow-orl-39.wanadoo.fr> In7 article <1997010822404556583@yellow-orl-39.wanadoo.fr>, serge.rossi@wanadoo.fr (Serge Rossi) wrote: >Stephan Schaem <t21@ix.netcom.com> écrivait : > >> Not broken... MMX is for 'integer' work, and the x86 is not that horrible >> for integer work... what MMX do is work with data array, and I dont think >> any CPU untill very recently offer this. can a PPC multiply 8 value and clip >> each individual result in 1 cycle? > >Can a Pentium MMX access 8 values in memory in 1 cycle ? No ! > >And there is few common programs who need this kind of integer work. > The all idea behind the mmx instruction is to process by group. This happen often with gfx data, audio stream, and alot of other form of 1d/2d array >MMX will be very interesting for games ! > And alot more... I guess some poeple have more 'imagination' then other. Stephan
From: dozer@netwizards.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: would you be my friend? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:03:30 Message-ID: <5b50kg$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net> Hello, I'm 14 years old and I think I may be a gay. I'm looking for some support and friendship with a older male age 18-40. Please email if you can help.
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 10 Jan 1997 08:14:41 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b4tph$189@www.langen.bull.de> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <R.J.Patel-ya023480001001971018010001@news.massey.ac.nz> Cc: R.J.Patel@massey.ac.nz In <R.J.Patel-ya023480001001971018010001@news.massey.ac.nz> Raj Patel wrote: > In article <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art > Isbell) wrote: > > > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's > > missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file > > without opening an application that knows how to print it. > > As a Mac user I'm fairly certain that when you drop a file onto > a desktop printer it actually starts the app and prints from there. > The same thing happens when you select a file in the finder and use > print from the file menu. > > The neat thing about desktop printing is that once the job is queued-up > you can do different things to it. eg hold the queue (useful for > printing away from the office on laptops), move jobs from one desktop > printer to another etc. > > > If the Mac's > > desktop printer supports dragging a file icon and dropping it on the desktop > > printer icon to print the file, that seems like a nice design. > > Apparently the kludge involved to get desktop printing to work is > pretty awesome :-) > > I guess if they include it from scratch things will be better. Actually, NeXT has supported direct printing from the beginning. It's just poorly supported in most applications since there hasn't been a desktop printer icon to make use of that facility. The program "open" opens a file in it's appropriate application, using the same mechanism a double-click would do. However, you can pass arguments to "open" (which is hard with a double-click :-). For instance, you can redirect the display to another host, specify an application different from the file's default application, specify a (number of) files to be opened or select the print function directly. Here's the man page for open: open(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual open(1) NAME open - open files SYNOPSIS open [ -a app ] [ -o ] [ -p ] [ -NXHost hostname ] filename ... DESCRIPTION The open command opens a file (or a directory), just as if you had double-clicked the file's icon. You can specify one or more file names (or pathnames), which are interpreted relative to the Shell or Terminal window's current working directory. For example, the following com- mand would open all WriteNow files in the current working directory: open *.wn ARGUMENTS -a specifies an application to use for opening the file. -o opens the file (can be used in combination with -p). -p causes the file to be printed instead of opened. -NXHost opens the file on the specified host (if its window server is public). Volker
From: froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:24:48 GMT Organization: AlgoNet Public Access Node, Stockholm Message-ID: <5b55du$nuq@epimetheus.algonet.se> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59eoku$eih@mica.netsync.net> NNTP-Posting-User: b7fe697fc47f6ef7093c87732e2a5b740 jecobb@netsync.net (Justin Cobb) wrote: >Thomas Vincent (info@sfbayrun.com) wrote: >: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back, at Apple. >: >: To see what I am talking about, check out this LA TIMES article: >: http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/BUSINESS/t000111043.html >That article was promising and encouraging... >If the new MacOS has even half the advantages of Next, I may just have to >start taking it seriously again ;) There seems to be a uniform optimism about this project. I hate to make anyone disappointed, but I have a hunch they are going to f... mess it all up. We do not know that what is going to be produced is a Next that can, eventually, run old Mac binaries, do we? By the way, I got curious about the Next for pc, so I went to their web-page to see what the os costs. I could not find any information. So, with help of dejanews I found out that there IS no price right now, but it DID cost $ 895. Now, that IS STOOPID. No wonder it is not commercially popular. IF such an expensive OS is actually going to get integrated with an os that most people regard as free (even if it, actually is not, but few notice that there is a price), that is going to produce some...what shall we call it...interesting demand/price effects on the NextStep os right now, no?
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Date: 10 Jan 1997 10:56:38 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: <5b5796$k@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <5apl3e$i15@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> <remedies-0901972236560001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <remedies-0901972236560001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> [misc groups trimmed from followups] On 01/10/97, Chris Murphy wrote: > Well let them scream because there are no native apps for the new > operating system in existance. Are you talking about current OpenStep > applications? There is no indication those will work on the hybrid > operating system. You like System 7, you can run System 7 on your machine > - or run apps in the blue box on Rhapsody. You like OpenStep, you can > keep OpenStep on your machine. Rhapsody is the new Mac OS - it is not > OpenStep. > I think you're overstating the case. Ths is one point I would like to see clairfied; the press releases state that the new OS will be "based on OpenStep". This is (perhaps deliberately?) ambiguous. My suspicion is that it will mean it's at least *very* close to the current spec. In which case current OpenStep apps will ship *very* quickly -- remember NeXT developers have got used to porting code now. I think your attitude here is rather poor too -- letting the NeXT engineers scream would be a bad thing to do. At the moment they're what's between AppLE's success and its failure. If they decided to walk out en masse, it would go hard with AppLE... Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: heller@altoetting.de Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: STB Virge 4MB supported?? Date: 10 Jan 1997 06:51:12 GMT Organization: Camelot Online Services Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b4ot0$6ad@lancelot.camelot.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, here I go again! Since the Matrox Mystic from Gateway is not supported, I have the following two options: STB Nitro 5446 1MB or STB Virge 4MB VRAM are any of those supported (resolution of 1280*1024*75hz intended) under NeXTSTEP3.3? I looked into the NeXTanswers and some STB and some ViRGE cards are supported, but i did not find the STB Virge supported... Any help appreciated!! My wife intends to buy a PC and I want to run NS on it. She is looking into a Gateway2000 Pentium 133MHz machine. Please, if possible, answer by e-mail to heller@altoetting.de -- Servus, Helmut (DH0MAD) ______________NeXT-mail accepted________________ Phone: +49-8671-881665 "Knowledge must be gathered and cannot be given" heller@altoetting.de ZEN, one of BLAKES7 FAX: +49-8671-881665 ------------------------------------------------ Dr. Helmut Heller, Muehldorfer Str. 72, 84503 Altoetting, GERMANY
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: dozer@netwizards.net Subject: cmsg cancel <5b50kg$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net> Control: cancel <5b50kg$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5b50kg$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net> Followup-to: junk References: <5b50kg$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:03:30 Spam-cancel: "would you be my friend?"
From: mandtbac@news.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy Date: 10 Jan 1997 11:23:59 GMT Organization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc. Distribution: comp Message-ID: <5b58sf$ss0@josie.abo.fi> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <5asvpa$mjo@white.koehntopp.de> <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> Stephan Schaem, in <5b0vhc$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>: [...] > Not broken... MMX is for 'integer' work, and the x86 is not that horrible > for integer work... what MMX do is work with data array, and I dont think > any CPU untill very recently offer this. some did. vector processing is not a new idea, just fairly special- purpose and therefore limited market; but there have been entire coprocessors designed to do vector mathemathics, since a long time. the VAXen have such designs, just for one. what i'd like to see is MMX done right: off the main CPU and onto a coprocessor, call it a 587 or 687 if you will, then expanded to a full range of decent vector maths operations, that could run parallel to the FPU on the main wafer. *that* might be interesting. [...] >Everyone knows Mac/Apple are terrible at making computer... "everyone"? not me. all i really know about Apple hardware, is that they're awfully good at keeping it proprietary, closed and secret. whether it's actually *good*, i dunno. seems to work decently, though. they did PnP right, from the start. not that that's a big deal, they're hardly the only ones who managed that. -- "...it's all wrong but it's alright..." -- Clapton
From: tfs@gravity.science.gmu.edu ( Tim) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT priced out of the enterprise (was) Re: Price ... Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 9 Jan 1997 05:35:34 GMT Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax Va. Sender: tfs-@vampire.science.gmu.edu (to reply remove the - in my address) Message-ID: <5b2036$7go@portal.gmu.edu> References: <32D28130.2659@erols.com> <5avbmn$qj@crl.crl.com> <jbf-ya023580000801970348170001@news.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Summary: uncompetative pricing In article <jbf-ya023580000801970348170001@news.tiac.net>, James B. Frazer <jbf@frazer.com> wrote: > >As I feared. "Enterprise" concepts still reign. Listening to the corporate market is a good thing, but pricing themselves out of that market has been a problem for NeXT. They've _had_ the right stuff for a long time now, but they've been getting killed by NT's pricing even though NT is an _vastly_ inferior product. > >> I was disappointed with the NeXT presentation, btw. They >> were doing a canned WebObjects demo. they should be pitching >> the IB/Obj-C/AppKit environment to developers, which is THE >> critical market for the architecture changeover. > >A year from now perhaps. Meanwhile, let's push those "enterprise >tools" at "enterprise prices". I really concur with both of these statements (sorry for the loss of attribution on the first...) Apple could very, very seriously kick some ass market wise if they pushed NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP at a lower pricepoint, and kept the higher 'corporate' pricing on enterprise oriented tools like WebObjects & PDO etc. I'd really like to see Apple bust into the corp market more than it ever has been, the advantages for buisness interests, and Apple in such a thing are pretty huge. On the buisness side, they'de be getting allot of pre-trained (from Apple's massive edu market) people, lowering costs & increasing efficency dramaticly. From Apples perspective, it'd be a _ton_ of new seats. Supporting and marketing OS that runs on Intel doesn't mean shafting PPC h/w, quite the contrary, as the long term cost advantages of hardware and an OS that doesn't require endless dicking to make & keep it working like the Wintel combo make for a real advantage. Taking the "Win" out of that is a good way to get options in the hardware department. (i.e. Don't like Intel maint. costs? Run PPC, or Sun, stuff that doesn't need endless tweaking.) Between Apple and NeXT I sometimes wonder if the marketing stratigst's have the sense that god gave a rock. There's been an incredible amount of counter-common-sense stuff that's gone on over time that hopefully will stop soon. Apple, and NeXT, both need to learn to be vicious about competition. Fun Fun Happy Happy UI and attitude don't cut it when faced with monopoly competition. Neither do anti-competative price stratigies. Tim -- ________________________________________________________________ tfs@vampire.science.gmu.edu (NeXTmail, MIME) Tim Scanlon tfs@epic.org (PGP key aval.) crypto is good Seal Technologies Inc. I own my own words
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 12:04:31 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5b5b8f$1q7@www.langen.bull.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de> <remedies-0901972228120001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> Cc: remedies@rapidremedies.com In <remedies-0901972228120001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> Chris Murphy wrote: > In article <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de > (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > >It's so obvious: > >If you view a PostScript file on a GX based machine you need to convert from > >the PS display model to the GX display model. That takes time. It would be > >(theoretically) just as slow to view a GX file on a DPS based machine. > > This is a load of crap Thank you for being so polite and objective. You seem to be new to usenet news. > you clearly know squat about GX. Yes. But my statement is *independent* of the inner workings GX and independent of whether Acrobat calls QD or GX (I didn't even mention the name Acrobat, AFAIR). If you took the time to actually read and understand what I was saying I think your answer would have been a little less insulting. > The PS display > model used in Acrobat makes calls to QuickDraw, not QuickDraw GX. Whether > or not I use GX, Acrobat displays at the same slow speed.[...] It just does not matter. The thread was about Acrobat's sluggishness and memory-hogging on the Mac platform being used as argument against DPS. Acrobat has it's own PS(PDF) interpreter, which takes both memory and time to interpret the PDF file and map the PostScript graphics primitives to whatever graphics primitives the host window system uses. Be that QD, GDI, Xlib, GX, or whatever. And that is the reason why Acrobat is slow on non-DPS platforms. The PDF readers on NeXTSTEP are extremely snappy, because they do not need to do much of a conversion ; they mostly just pipe the PS primitives to the View of the output window. So you cannot use the slow speed of application programs that include their own PS interpreter to display their output in a non-PS window system as a proof for PS being slow. Do you understand that? > >Besides, the discussion is moot since Apple has already decided to use DPS > >and add GX compatibility. > > Errors in your facts are never moot at any time. Errors in assumptions, OK, but errors in facts? What a concept! Volker
From: jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 03:41:22 -0800 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Message-ID: <jcr.852895672@idiom.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> writes: >GX isn't implemented as a class library, but as an optimized database >engine. GX objects aren't even OOP objects. The GXShape reference is an >index of some kind into the GX data base. The creation of a new default >shape object of a given type fills in the 9 attributes with the GX type and >a reference to the default objects of each of 8 attributes. That could be >speeded up even further by merely setting a flag to specify that some/all >of the 8 attributes are actually a reference to its respective default. YOu >can, of course, modify the attributes and the default object for a given >attribute (for a given shape type? RTFM time again). I notice that you keep describing GX as an "optimized database engine." Why do you describe it as a database? I haven't seen anything in the docs to indicate that the reference to a GX shape is anything more than a pointer to a shape. A "database" to me, implies the ability to look up an object by search criteria. It would further imply some kind of persistence capability. >When an object is drawn, any calculations and other shape-specific info are >stored in the shape cache and reused as needed. My understanding is that >the geometry of the shape is stored in a private list of line segments in >such a way that many/most transformations don't require a change to this >info. There are probably a lot more behind-the-scenes optimizations going >on. Well, now you've just described the Postscript font-caching machinery. PS does a great deal of behind the scenes optimization, so that when a glyph from a font (or a user path) is rasterized, that rasterization need not be repeated for a given size/orientation/whatever. >DPS calls can't make use of much of this info whereas the GX primitives can >because they were designed to. They're also not evoked via a byte-code >interpreter so you don't have that overhead. You keep saying we "don't get it" about GX. I'm saying now, that you are evidently quite new to Postscript. You keep making sweeping statements about the limitations of DPS, that show me that you have never written a userpath, never used a postscript dictionary, and never created a user defined font. So, expound all you want on the virtues of GX, but do a bit more research before you start proclaiming the limitations of DPS. -jcr
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Going cross platform (Was: Mac programmers converting to MacStep) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:44:53 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E3sM2u.AHx@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <E3qM2s.E9@shinto.nbg.sub.org> In article <E3qM2s.E9@shinto.nbg.sub.org> tomi@shinto.nbg.sub.org (Thomas Engel) writes: > ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) wrote: > > There's no reason why Apps > > for PPC should not start apearing BEFORE the OS does, if NeXT release > > OPENSTEP 4.2 for 68K, Intel and Sparc with a PPC compiler!. > > > > This is not very likely... True - I do not believe it will happen outside of Apple (though I'm sure internally that it will). It is however possible (likley), that the compiler will be stable long before the PPC version of the OS. > ...since it would require all the libs to be present. Not true. It would require the client half of the libs to be present. These really just define the API which is known. NeXT have upgraded their libs several times before, retaining compatability with the older client side. In any case the libraries are independant of the underlying hardware, so should be available almost immediatly. Only the core code needs changing, and that would not be an issue for this strategy. > "Rhapsody developer snapshot" > will be the first release with PPC support IMHO... Almost certainly. It is VERY unlikly that there will be a release of ANY kind before then, so it will be the first PPC version. However it stands, that release of PPC apps to run on a NeXT derived OS is not dependant on the existance of that OS! $an
From: rlove@neosoft.com (Robert B. Love ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: 10 Jan 1997 14:07:07 GMT Organization: NeoSoft, Inc. Message-ID: <5b5ieb$8qv@uuneo.neosoft.com> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> <32D31A61.5EB4@whitehouse.gov> In <32D31A61.5EB4@whitehouse.gov> The Central Scrutinizer wrote: > >It had one clear good idea, distinct from C++, called "interfaces", which was picked up by Java (the way cool military > computer language >called Ada also offers interfaces). > > First, Ada is a piece of crap. Ah, another well thought out opinion from a C bigot who won't use his real name. If your ideas had any value you wouldn't have to hide behind a pseudonymn. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Love, rlove@neosoft.com (local) MIME & NeXT Mail OK rlove@raptor.rmnug.org (permanent) PGP key available ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Christian Schildwaechter Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: 10 Jan 1997 14:27:43 GMT Organization: RMI Net - EUnet EUregio POP Aachen Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> In Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) comp.sys.next.misc <ArticleDisplayer: 0x1644c8> writes, > Kevin Palmer wrote: >> >> Jeff Dallacqua wrote: >> > >> > On 28 Dec 1996 06:53:37 GMT, andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com >> > wrote: >> > >> > >For those who don't know, Trilobyte used NeXTstep to create 7th Guest >> > >and 11th Hour. Id used NeXTstep to create Doom and Quake. >> > >> > Weren't the video sequences for 7th Guest(and maybe 11th Hour) >> > done with 3DStudio(although I guess this doesn't necessarily mean >> > they didn't use NeXTstep for any of it)? >> >> -- I am almost positive that the images on 7th guest were done in >> Alias|Wavefront Power Animator on the SGI. It was a while back when I >> read the article. > > I'm sure that 7th guest was made with 3DStudio. I'm not sure about 11th > Hour though. This is the first I've heard of 7th Guest having anything > to do with NEXTSTEP. Not that I'm an expert on the subject. In Wired Sep 1995 there was a diary from Graeme Devine/Trilobyte about the last four month of the development of the 11th Hour. Some excerts on the issue of used machines: Wednesday, 18 Jan 95 'I hate DOS. How the hell do people use it and stay sane? Take, for instance, the simple act of compiling a program. From more or less any NeXT machine in the office, I can walk up and compile my code. I'm assured of getting my configuration, dock, directories sorted the way I like them - plus access to my files from whichever Machine I use. ....' Saturday, 18 Feb 95 '... again and again, it decided to crash. At first we thought it was the Indigo NFS (which was acting funny), then it appeared ...' Sunday, 12 Mar 95 '... Today we got in 3 HP 735/125 systems. They run fast, not just fast in fact, but stinkingly disgustingly fast. Around three times the speed of a 90-MHz Pentium, probably faster if they were not network and disk i/o bound. It's the fastest piece of hardware I've ever used. ....' So my guess is: - Nextstep on Intel/HP for their self-developed game construction/development environment. - Wavefront/Softimage or whatever on SGI for the 3D graphics - DOS to make some money out of it Seems to make some sense this way. You wouldn't use Nextstep for 3D development, there is near to no software, you wouldn't wish to develop under Irix either. Christian --- Christian Schildwaechter http://www.farbeduciel.com Rosstr. 38-40 chriss@farbeduciel.com (MIME fine) 52064 Aachen/Germany (+49)241-2809- 3(voice/am)/5(fax)
From: jecobb@netsync.net (Justin Cobb) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 10 Jan 1997 15:46:31 GMT Organization: Netsync Internet Services Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b5o8n$8q9@mica.netsync.net> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b3s1u$ptt@gaea.titan.org> andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com wrote: : Kevin Palmer <kpalmer@neosoft.com> wrote: : > Jeff Dallacqua wrote: : > > : > > On 28 Dec 1996 06:53:37 GMT, andrew_abernathy@omnigroup.com : > > wrote: : > > : > > >For those who don't know, Trilobyte used NeXTstep to create 7th Guest : > > >and 11th Hour. Id used NeXTstep to create Doom and Quake. : > > : > > Weren't the video sequences for 7th Guest(and maybe 11th Hour) : > > done with 3DStudio(although I guess this doesn't necessarily mean : > > they didn't use NeXTstep for any of it)? : > : > -- I am almost positive that the images on 7th guest were done in : > Alias|Wavefront Power Animator on the SGI. It was a while back when I : > read the article. : : I have no idea what platform the artwork was done on. : The engine was done on NeXTstep. People are gonna hate me for this one, But the artwork was done on Amigas, using Imagine3d.. at least for 7th guest they were, for 11th hour i believe 3d studio on PC's was used. -- __________________________________________________________ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ ___ ___ || ||_ | ||\ | |_ | | || | | | | | ||__||__| |__||__|__| | || \| |__|__|__||__| | | |__ |__||__||__| ========================================================== - - Homepage: http://www.netsync.net/users/jecobb - - - - - jecobb@acsu.buffalo.edu & jecobb@netsync.net - - - __________________________________________________________
From: jinx6568@sover.net (Chris Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 16:31:21 GMT Organization: Airwindows Message-ID: <jinx6568-1001971133300001@news.sover.net> References: <5apbso$4km@News.Dal.Ca> <32D06305.162@arcane.com> <AEFB1E009668835CB@travis.tfs.net> In article <AEFB1E009668835CB@travis.tfs.net>, tbutler@tfs.net (Travis Butler) wrote: > In other words, the only major 'visible' changes I wanted to see would be > to *reduce* complexity; everything else I want to see changed is under the > hood. I don't want to see any wholesale reworking in the rest of the > interface, because I'm happy with the way it works now. How is this a case > of NIH syndrome? > (I don't mind seeing minor changes and refinements of the interface; after > all, that's how the MacOS got to have the interface I like. But going with > the NeXTstep interface is not a minor refinement; it's tossing out the Mac > interface and replacing it with something else.) Hm. As I see it much of the NeXT interface, up to and including the right-side 'menu bar', falls under the category 'appearance manager', as long as direct manipulation of files and apps (icons in other words) is still doable using familiar operations (i.e. click and drag). I would like to see what NeXT has to offer in this regard, as long as the foundation of Mac direct manipulation is still there- and it will be there, Hancock said so. :) Jinx_tigr (aka Chris Johnson)
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 09:21:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFBBD97-8D14F@198.68.42.148> References: <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric King <rex@mit.edu> said: >In article <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com >(Maury Markowitz) wrote: > >) Do you mean aside from the fact that every system call generates a 68k >)call to the trap table? > > Not in the PPC version, I believe that's just a 'normal' shared library. >The Copland version is definitely a shared library. > >)> GX isn't implemented as a class library, but as an optimized database >)> engine. GX objects aren't even OOP objects. >) >) A problem, not a feature. > > Not when there's no standard object format or ORB. SOM doesn't work with >a lot of languages on the Mac. Using standard non-OOP C-style calling >conventions makes it much easier to interface with other languages. Cuts >down overhead too. > Especially when you consider the point that GX refers to GX objects using private references. Using an OOP paradigm for reference would offer no advantage, given that every object of a given category is likely the same size and there are only a limited number of manipulations available for each kind of object. Implementing a class wrapper for GX is trivial, and should be done, presumably using the NeXT appkit model. One nice thing about this arrangement is that you could create things like a "paragraph layout" object which could later be implemented as an "atomic" GX object type with the API folded into the standard GX API for optimization purposes after the code had been "field tested" within the class library implementation. You could also provide a System 7 version of the appkit, thereby allowing a common API for System 7 and Rhapsody, at least for graphics. >)change DPS, > > That's just asking for trouble, IMO. > I think that the DPS server could provide more than one graphics engine, using my escape code idea. If the interpreter runs into, say, "0xff01", that should be seen as an indication to jump to the GX handler, which would likely be based on a jump table, rather than on an interpreter. "0xff00" (or whatever) would signal the return to the DPS interpeter. Many different graphics engines could then be evoked within the DPS server without more than a single modification to the server engine. You'd lose the ability to take advantage of SMP using GX in this way, but it seems the easiest and fastest way to go, given the time-to-market constraints that Apple has right now. A more elegant solution could be worked out later. It would also give developers the ability to use the GX API intact, rather than broken into pieces for use by DPS, as is the current plan. It would also give Apple engineers the opportunity to debug the full GX library in a multi-tasking, multi-processing, multi-threaded environment, thereby giving them a leg up on using GX in some later date as the main graphics engine. We could also be able to use the full range of GX services, including GX printing extensions, something that appears to be going bye-bye under the current plan. I still find it interesting that the most OOP OS available uses byte-code interpreted language for its display and printing and programmers of this OOP OS insist that an OOP display engine is not going to be easier to use for display AND print pre/post-processing. >)or simply rely on the fact that the DPS interpreter is running >)on a machine that's something on the order of 100 times as fast as my old >)IIcx on which GX ran fine. > > For most things, the overhead of the byte-code interpreter would >probably not be noticeable at all in a fast system, however the >optimizations stemming from advanced GX's retained mode display >architecture would be. DPS could be programmed to keep track of everything >that GX does (it is a language after all) but the memory bloat and 20-40x >speed hit would probably dissuade users and developers from using such a >system. > Make GX evokeable from within DPS and in parallel to DPS. DPS could make use of GX typography and so on, but keep the API intact as a unit, also. >) I don't really see a problem here. > > The problem is that using DPS for everything would create a huge >performance bottleneck for some applications, in addition to making some >things *much* harder for developers to program. > It is unfortunate that the developer-base of GX is so small, because it is obviously a superior solution, in the long run, for Apple. DPS can't take advantage of SMP as well as GX could, or such is my understanding. Current Mac developers should REALLY be bugging Apple about this issue, and not just the GX fanatics. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <587851299369@digifix.com> Date: 10 Jan 1997 16:42:13 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <475852914532@digifix.com> Topics include: Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site eduSTEP WWW site NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site comp.sys.next newsgroups related newsgroups comp.sys.next newsgroups mailing list ftp sites NeXTanswers Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site =============================================== This online community resource includes - ISV company pages - ISV product descriptions - NEXTSTEP Developer Directory - NEXTSTEP Community WhitePages - Mailing List archives and information You can connect via the world wide web at: http://www.stepwise.com/ Suggestions or comments can be directed to me at sanguish@digifix.com If you would like to get your company and product information on Stepwise, please contact me at sanguish@digifix.com. eduSTEP WWW site ================ http://www.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/eduStep/ eduStep aims to provide up-to-date information on: - NextStep tools and projects for scientists. - Third-party products interesting for the educational and scientific community (with educational discounts noted, where they exist). - A listing of resellers and shops interested in working with customers in the educational community. - Conferences, meetings, workshops - Major projects, such as SciTools, EMBL's project to develop a NextStep scientific work environment - Status reports on GNUStep, a freely-available implementation of OpenStep now being developed NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site ============================ http://www.next.com comp.sys.next.* newsgroups ========================== news:comp.sys.next.advocacy This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. news:comp.sys.next.announce Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Archives are available by ftp at ftp://ftp.stepwise.com/pub/Next_Announce_Archives Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. news:comp.sys.next.bugs A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT- specific groups as well. news:comp.sys.next.hardware Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. news:comp.sys.next.marketplace NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. news:comp.sys.next.misc For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! news:comp.sys.next.programmer Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. news:comp.sys.next.software This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. news:comp.sys.next.sysadmin Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. Related Newsgroups ================== news:comp.soft-sys.nextstep Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. news:comp.lang.objective-c Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. news:comp.object Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com The ftp sites ============= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org - The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de: - (Peanuts) Located in Germany. ftp://ftp.dn.net/pub/next - Peanuts mirror in the US ftp://terra.stack.urc.tue.nl - (Dutch NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it - (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next - eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: - See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. 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To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 16:53:46 GMT Organization: NO ORGANIZATION, INC. Message-ID: <5b5s6q$ad1@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <rzeman-0101972041150001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101972230330001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301972140450001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5aj612$ied@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <ldo-0701972107290001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b2vcf$lbi@bignews.shef.ac.uk> Cc: m.crawford@shef.ac.uk In <5b2vcf$lbi@bignews.shef.ac.uk> mmalcolm crawford wrote: > > Funnily enough--have a look at Tumbler > > <http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/ldo/sw/index.html#Tumbler>, which I believe is > > the lowest-cost tool for producing PDF files with high-quality text and > > graphics on *any* platform. Some samples of its output are available at > > <ftp://ftphost.waikato.ac.nz//pub/ldo/PDFSamples/>. > > > Is it free? I *believe* there's a GhostScript print filter which works for > NEXTSTEP which should allow you to output to PDF. (Corrections welcome.) > My PStoPDF filter for NeXTSTEP/OpenStep, DOS, Windows (Dos Box), MacOS, BeOS, Solaris, NetBSD and (last but not least) Linux will be ready 'real soon now' (Ok, ok, I said that since a few months but my paid work has as higher priority so the time frame is shifting)... It will turn most every PS into PDF (in the first release the input must be PS Level 1 as a few L2 features are not implemented yet, it does not use the DPS interpreter but its own one). You can check the PS interpreter today, as it is used in my shareware PostScript preflight tool 'pscheck' available on my home page for NeXTSTEP, DOS and Linux. And it will be quite inexpensive (shareware). :-) -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Printer for NextStep/Intel ???? Date: 10 Jan 1997 17:03:45 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b5sph$7ij@crcnis3.unl.edu> References: <5b3esj$b57@epervier.CC.UMontreal.CA> In article <5b3esj$b57@epervier.CC.UMontreal.CA> ftouhi@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Majid Ftouhi) writes: > HI There: > I have NextStep/Intel, and i want to buy a printer (without postscript). > Does anyone know if i can use HP LaserJet 5L? If not is there an other > printer not too expencive that i can use? We use several 5l's here. We use the package GSPrintFilter, which can be found at ftp.next.peak.org. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: "David Every" <dke@adnc.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 10 Jan 97 07:22:45 +0000 Organization: adnc.com Distribution: inet Message-ID: <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.os.ms-windows, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.unix.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.software, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.soft-sys.nextstep > >You have it exactly backwards. CISC instruction sets are more complex > >and require more decode logic. This makes it harder decompose the > >instruction stream into independant pieces that can be dispatched > >to seperate execution units. Stephan Schaem <t21@ix.netcom.com> > Risc need bigger cache, faster instruction fecth to execute the same > logic. Code creep on RISC seems to be about 10-20% in most cases... however CISC machines (like the P6) also demand aligned instructions and data to get their best performance - which translates to code (data) creep. I am not sure which is worse at this point. Instructions do not need to be faster - that is a seperate issue all together. In many cases the opposite is proving to be true - with RISC machines (604e) beating the CISC-RISC hybrids (like PPro) eventhough the later has a larger and faster cache and a lot more circuitry. So you seem to be wrong in practice. > >As chip integration increases, more execution units can be added > >which RISC can take advantage of in a more direct fashion. (There > >are fewer dependancies between instructions, etc) > > And need more bandwidth and faster/bigger cache. BOTH need that - and PPro needs much more and faster than PPC to get the same results - so it seems you have this backwards. > Having fixed size > instruction is great, but this do not stop you from having more complex > instruction doing more per instruction. Sure you could do more per instruction on CISC - but each instruction was slower and could stall the pipe - resulting in MUCH slowing performance than just doing it the RISC way. So you save 10% in memory - and lose 40% in die size to support CISC, and lose 40% in performance - not a good tradeoff if you ask me. > >Take a look at the fastest CISC out there, the Pentium Pro. What > >does it do? It 'preprocesses' the CISC instruction stream into a > >simpler, more 'RISC' like, instruction stream which is then executed. > > Thats the amazing part too me... that this actually work :) > It execute 3 variable size instruction per cycle.... Its called superscalar - and it is not amazing it works - it is amazing how much more die size (gates) it takes up to do the same amount of work. > >How much cheaper/faster would that CPU be if it could be fed > >the RISC code directly? > > Humm, the code size would probably double, so you need to spend > $ on bigger cache and faster memory. You have this backwards - this is why RISC's have been proven cheaper to design and implement, and outperform CISC overall, and much more dramatic results when you look at performance/gate or performance/watt, etc.... > >Show me a CISC chip and I will show you a faster/cheaper RISC > >chip. > >This don't make CISC bad, just not better. > > My view is, cisc better exploit the resource at hand... risc are alot > faster/cheaper to design and improve giving them the edge. > Even so, like some mentioned, at one time, the Pentiumpro was > THE fastest CPU on earth for integer work :) Sure... CISC chips CAN be faster - but they can't keep up, and cost more to design, etc.... as for better resources at hand the CISC have yet to prove that - to get the performance on CISC (like PPro) you have to have alignment issues, etc. that make it look more like a RISC than a CISC anyways - and you get code creep the same as RISC. So wheres the advantage? > My only concern with risc chip is their efficientcy. Not data wise tho. RISC's are more efficient in cost, design, power, gates, performance, heat.... they are a toss up on data size and code size - (theoretically being larger - but functionally not being significantly different). > >In the end it really doesn't matter. Most code is written in > >a high level languge and can compile anywhere. Code that is > >written against a particular CPU will be shortlived > > Yes, but it will live long enought to make sense to do it. (I mean > hand written specific CPU code) Now days people are learning - NO! (Or only very selectively. First you write in standard language and get it working. Then you profile and tune certain areas. Giving you portability FIRST - then performance enhancements second). > >Even a CISC is no promise of long life. Code written against > >8086 is _NOT_ very performal on a Pentium today. Sure it runs, but > >very poorly compared to code written with that CPU in mind. > > Code written for the P5 might run VERY porrly on a P6 etc... Yes. > >Advice: Write it in a high level language and re-compile as needed. > > My advice... Write in the language that fit the best, and hand optimize > assembly version of the critical part (If any). Most compiler today can > produce code as much as 4 time slower as human rewritten code. Humans can tune code... but the way most people are doing it is writing high-level and getting it working (and portable) FIRST. Then profiling and tuning as necessary... it turns out that in the past humans weren't always that good at guessing which parts of the code were the bottlenecks and so wasted time optimizing the wrong areas - and not creating portability first. -- David K. Every MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way! -- =A91996 DKE. Non-exclusive, royalty free license to distribute is granted to any service provider except Microsoft. By distributing this, Microsoft agrees to pay $1,000 per posting.
From: "David Every" <dke@adnc.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 10 Jan 97 07:26:08 +0000 Organization: adnc.com Distribution: inet Message-ID: <AEFB9F94-3997A@207.158.13.84> References: <19970109213036289271@yellow-orl-4.wanadoo.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.os.ms-windows, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.unix.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.software, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.soft-sys.nextstep > Kristian K=F6hntopp <KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE> =E9crivait=A0: > > > "Can a PPC multiply 8 values and clip each individual result in > > 1 cycle?" > > > > It can't. The question is: Should it? > > Multiplying 8 values at a time is 8 times faster only if you get these 8 > values from the memory at the same time ! Of course, it can't. The > memory is not 8 times faster :-) Of course thats the point - there is more room on RISC for Cache, and its easier to add logic to avoid cache stalls and for prefetch... meaning that you are more likely to get a cache hit vs a stall which can be MORE than 8 times faster. > IMHO, even without MMX like functions, today's processors are very > memory bound. This greatly reduces the interest of these SIMD > instructions. If they were as memory bound as you imply then MP would die and be futile. We are learning the opposite... 2 and 4 processors work fine sharing the same memory and L2 - which would not be possible if 1 processor was completely memory bound as you implied. -- David K. Every MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way! -- =A91996 DKE. Non-exclusive, royalty free license to distribute is granted to any service provider except Microsoft. By distributing this, Microsoft agrees to pay $1,000 per posting.
From: "Raymond L. Ehrlich" <rehrlich@sprintmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXTStep users in Florida Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:04:14 -0500 Organization: Sprint Internet Passport Technical Center-Tampa, Fl Message-ID: <32D6849E.3E2C@sprintmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of any NeXTStep user in the Tampa/St. Petersburg, Florida area. Thanks, Ray Every human being is a potential friend
From: Mark_Bessey@next.com (Mark Bessey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 10 Jan 1997 18:06:20 GMT Organization: NeXT Software, Inc. Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b60es$fnl@news.next.com> References: <5b4cut$9u8@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> Art Isbell writes > Yeah, that's all I meant. Drag-and-drop the file icon onto a > printer icon, Workspace Manager opens the app that knows how to print > this file and opens its Print panel with any Print panel accessory > view that might be supplied by the app, and the usual Print panel > procedure is then completed by the user at which point the app that > printed the file quits. D.O. could be used to do much of this. And, in fact, there's already support in OPENSTEP for printing like this. Take a looks at NSApplication's - (BOOL)application:(NSApplication *)theApplication printFile:(NSString *)filename method. -- Mark Bessey NeXT Software, Inc Software Quality Assurance -->I DON'T SPEAK FOR NeXT <--
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:01:13 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32D691F9.3D2E04C0@screaming.org> References: <19970109213036289271@yellow-orl-4.wanadoo.fr> <AEFB9F94-3997A@207.158.13.84> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Every wrote: > Of course thats the point - there is more room on RISC for Cache, and > its easier to add logic to avoid cache stalls and for prefetch... > meaning that you are more likely to get a cache hit vs a stall which > can be MORE than 8 times faster. May I ask why this is important to newsgroups for systems that run on multiple processors? I admit that it's a selling-point for systems that are dependent on PPC, but I don't think those vendors relish their platform dependencies. Apple's acquisition of OpenStep, to me, indicates that they no longer want their API to be tied to an architecture -- so that Apple is no longer tied to the success or failure of a particular architecture. Doesn't "The Macintosh Way" have something to do with not having to be concerned with the details of cache stalls? -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:08:23 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E3t3u0.BxK@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <5b3c02$esi@news.xmission.com> In article <5b3c02$esi@news.xmission.com> don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) writes: > Anyway, the point of this message is to pass on some information from > a person who has used Interceptor and he points out its flaws. While > I was well aware of them when I wrote my previous article, I omitted > mention of them because I felt the article was already too long. So, > with his permission, I will append Allan Noordvyk's comments to this > post. (He tried to post it, but thinks that his comapny's firewall > might have eaten the post, so I'm reposting it now.) I've also worked with interceptor, and can verify most of these comments. I've actually taken working Interceptor code OUT of an app becasue I simply didn't think it was worth the hassle of maintaining it. The speed improvements are moderate at best, and the problems are multiple - not because of implementation flaws, but from the nature of the problem. Appkit protects you from these things, and does a great job. I'd recomend everyone should forget about Interceptor until the REALLY NEED it. As a basic step to fast bitmaps, write NXBitmapImageReps to be of the right depth! If they're the same depth as the screen, then they're VERY fast. They only apear slow because you've probably used a format which suits your application, rather than you screen. Write four implementations, and your code will be almost as fast as interceptor, and it will fail safe (it won't break, just run slowly). If you think thats too much work, then consider than intercpetor may need around a dozen implementations (and will break on some new graphics card)! Its just not worth it. $an
From: cjones@wellesley.edu (Carl Jones) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Linux and NEXTSTEP on the same HD? Date: 10 Jan 1997 16:56:40 Organization: Wellesley College Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b6duo$qp9@cokie.wellesley.edu> Hi, I'd like to install Linux on an unused partition of my PC running NEXTSTEP 3.3. Is there any problem with doing this? Will the NEXTSTEP boot program allow me to start Linux (or will Lilo allow me to boot NEXTSTEP)? Carl -- cjones@wellesley.edu (NeXTMail/MIME OK)
From: msoori@genetics.bio-rad.com (msoori) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Date: 10 Jan 1997 21:57:20 GMT Organization: Bio-Rad Laboratories Message-ID: <msoori-1001971357210001@ms.genetics.bio-rad.com> References: <vfr750E38pv2.7uJ@netcom.com> <32c981ca.54653107@news.xmission.com> <wrf3-ya023180003112961823280001@news.mindspring.com> <199701011356233592478@roxboro-185.interpath.net> <5aejj6$so@wanda.vf.pond.com> <32cb3a67.84938545@news.xmission.com> > >}"Apple's marketing prowess" - does anybody besides me think this is > >}suitable for posting in rec.humor? > > > >Yes. > > Ok, ok. So "prowess" was a bad choice of words. I was thinking of > them compared to NeXT. :-) Perhaps, "muscle" would have been a > better word. Perhaps "vein" would have been a better choice of words ;-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Mahesh P. Sooriarachchi. ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Work: msoori@genetics.bio-rad.com | ~ ~ Home: mahesh@value.net | This space for rent! ~ ~ Home Page: http://value.net/~mahesh/ | ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Eric Smalling <Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:21:53 -0600 Organization: SABRE Decision Technologies http://www.amrcorp.com Message-ID: <32D6B2F1.53E6@amrcorp.com> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59eoku$eih@mica.netsync.net> <5b55du$nuq@epimetheus.algonet.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mats Forssblad wrote: > By the way, I got curious about the Next for pc, so I went to their > web-page to see what the os costs. I could not find any information. > So, with help of dejanews I found out that there IS no price right > now, but it DID cost $ 895. Now, that IS STOOPID. No wonder it is not > commercially popular. IF such an expensive OS is actually going to get > integrated with an os that most people regard as free (even if it, > actually is not, but few notice that there is a price), that is going > to produce some...what shall we call it...interesting demand/price > effects on the NextStep os right now, no? hehe - That's probably just to use the thing too! Developer (non-academic) packages are much more. I've been trying to convince my managers to look at OpenStep for NT here for months, but look at the price of the "Starter Pack" _special offer_ at this url: http://www.next.com:80/OPENSTEP/Products/OS_NT/OSE_Starter.htmld/ Yup, thats right FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for _ONE_ developer (on the Enterprise Platform) !!! (and 3 Deployment Packs whatever they are) I sincerly hope Apple helps bring that price down _significantly_. I'm going to a NeXT Seminar next week to see OpenStep Enterprise and WebObjects Enterprise, I'm hoping they will affirm this! es PS: For a full price list see: http://www.optimal-object.com/Software/prices.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ Eric A. Smalling SABRE Decision Technologies - Ft Worth, Texas USA --=== ------=== The Any views expressed are mine alone and are in no ----------- SABRE way the views of AMR or any of it's subsidiaries. ------=== Group --=== email:Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com Corp Web Site: http://www.amrcorp.com/sabr_grp/sdt/sdt.htm ____________________________________________________________________
From: George Graves <gmgraves@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:03:14 +0000 Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <32D62FFC.3F6B@earthlink.net> References: <5att62$j36@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> <maury-0801971636520001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maury Markowitz wrote: > > In article <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135>, "Lawson English" > <english@primenet.com> wrote: > > > The problem is, from all that we can gather, NO Apple engineer was shown > > one of these demos. They were all upper-level management, most of whom have > > only been at Apple for a few months. All of whom apparently don't know a > > thing about Apple technology, such as GX's multi-language capabilities, > > The question reamins though, can the NeXT OS do it? IE, can it push all > that *real* multimedia through the system? The BeOS can. > > Maury After having spoken to several NeXT engineers, I believe firmly that it can run rings around NT, with all of the Apple technologies folded-in. I was shown a demonstration of the NeXT system (which had been ported to the NeXT PPC workstation before the decision was made to get out of the hardware business) running on a 601 based PowerMac, It simply flew! (the PPC version had been ported to the 601, because that was the only PPC chip available in 1993 when the work was done) Real fast. Just as fast as Be (subjectively speaking, of course) George Graves
From: "johan" <johan@nielsencorp.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Mac->NeXTstation->printer Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:06:16 -0500 Organization: NITC Message-ID: <johan-1001971506160001@jnielsenmac.andersencorp.com> References: <jak-ya023680003112960101170001@news.asu.edu> In article <jak-ya023680003112960101170001@news.asu.edu>, jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) wrote: > If I have a Mac and a NeXTstation networked together, is it possible to > print from the Mac to a NeXT laser printer hooked up to the NeXTstation? Or > is there any other way to get from the Mac to the NeXT printer? > > Any help is much appreciated. > > john > > --- - ------- ------- > You're not going crazy, you're going sane in a crazy world! - The Tick > > jak@asu.edu > http://www.public.asu.edu/~jkestner/ InterCon has software to facilitate lpr and NFS communication between a Mac and systems that support these protocols. Check out http://www.intercon.com. Johan
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:14:52 -0500 Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001001971814520001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <rex-ya023080000901970755250001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b3mu9$irl$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5b3mu9$irl$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>, marcel@sysyem.de wrote: )The Acrobat-Reader thing again. Sigh. What about Illustrator? That's a pig at redraws compared to Lightning Draw. )Acrobat Reader on the Mac is much )slower than the various Acrobat readers on NextStep with comparable )hardware ( 33Mhz 68040 Mac, 25 Mhz 68040 NeXT cube), at least )in my experience. Waaaayyy slower. An '040 NeXT cube is *not* the same as an '040 Mac. No stock Quadra I know of, could ever drag whole windows around while updating others in the background, the hardware just didn't have enough throughput. It's my guess that the NeXT cube had a hardware bitblt that offloaded the data shuffling from the CPU. Does anyone have specs on NeXT's stock video display chipsets? ) Pages that pop up instantly on the )NeXT take several seconds on the Mac. So please don't generalize from )Acrobat on the Mac (presumably using Quickdraw somewhere along the line) )to DPS running natively. Just what is it that you think Quickdraw does that would slow DPS down? It's a pretty basic and low-level graphics library. Since Quickdraw doesn't support many of Postscript's geometry types Adobe would have had to write code for them to be used under Quickdraw, i.e. please show me the Quickdraw command for drawing a cubic bezier curve. The only thing that Quickdraw can draw are rectangles, ovals, text, lines, points, regions, and bitmaps. Nothing resolution independent. Furthermore it's so easy to bypass Quickdraw that I'd be *shocked* if Adobe didn't. Adobe had to have ported something like DPS or a stripped down version of it (Bravo) and have it draw directly to the screen or into a buffer. Quickdraw just doesn't do enough for a conversion to be feasible. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: "johan" <johan@nielsencorp.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Two motherboards in a cube, help Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:12:24 -0500 Organization: NITC Message-ID: <johan-1001971512240001@jnielsenmac.andersencorp.com> References: <5an2i6$mms@rac10.wam.umd.edu> In article <5an2i6$mms@rac10.wam.umd.edu>, bbq@wam.umd.edu (BBQ) wrote: > > I have a NeXT black cube, and at bootup it says FPU=0x40 or similiar, I > have found a 68030 motherboard for a good price. Can I put this into my > machine, and what will happen, it doesn't have a monitor or anything, but > can I speed anything up without additional software? > > thanks > bbq The good news is YES it can be done. The bad news is I don't have the information which document how it is done. I do know that it involved scratching some leads on the backplane which determine primary and secondary slots. The second motherboard ends up booting over the net from the primary mother board (since only on card can use the boot disk). johan
From: flight@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de (Gregor Hoffleit) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Linux and NEXTSTEP on the same HD? Date: 14 Jan 1997 12:50:07 GMT Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany Message-ID: <5bfvdv$a7d@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <5b6duo$qp9@cokie.wellesley.edu> <32D82DBE.1DB1@friday.com> On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:18:06 -0500, Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com> wrote: >Carl Jones wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I'd like to install Linux on an unused partition of my PC running NEXTSTEP >> 3.3. Is there any problem with doing this? Will the NEXTSTEP boot >> program allow me to start Linux (or will Lilo allow me to boot NEXTSTEP)? > >Either system will allow you to boot the other-- the NeXT boot prompt is >a bit easier to configure (there is no configuration to speak of), but >the LILO boot prompt is cooler (ie; on my system, I type 'next', 'linux' >or 'custom' [a bastardized linux kernel]) to boot one of 3 OSs). I'm still trying to convince everybody that all you need is Stefan Wolfram's excellent OS-BS program. It displays a nice, coloured menu when booting, installation and setup of partitions to boot is idiot-proof and also menu-driven, it's small, it can boot some systems off the second drive, and it's free. Only drawback: The installation program has to be run from DOS. Just look out for osbsbeta.exe, it's certainly on a server near to you! Its homepage is http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~wolf/os-bs.html Gregor -- | Gregor Hoffleit Mathematisches Institut, Uni HD | | flight@mathi.uni-heidelberg.de INF 288, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany | | (NeXTmail, MIME) (49)6221 54-5771 fax 54-8312 | | PGP Key fingerprint = 23 8F B3 38 A3 39 A6 01 5B 99 91 D6 F2 AC CD C7 |
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:20:29 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001001971920290001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <jcr.852895672@idiom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <jcr.852895672@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: )I notice that you keep describing GX as an "optimized database engine." )Why do you describe it as a database? I haven't seen anything in the docs to )indicate that the reference to a GX shape is anything more than a pointer to )a shape. Trust me it's *not*. GX references are defined as pointers, but they're not used as such. For instance both a gxshape and a gxviewport are defined as a gxreference in the headers. Gxreferences in turn are defined as pointers. The last time I checked 2 was *not* a viable pointer, and I've certainly gotten gxviewports with that as their 'value' In all likelihood they're indices into arrays or collection IDs. ) A "database" to me, implies the ability to look up an object by )search criteria. It would further imply some kind of persistence capability. Yep. GX satisfies both criteria. All GX structures are built on top of the collection manager, which stores its keys and data in two resizable arrays. (adding a lot of things can be a bit slow.) The array of keys is sorted by collection tag type, then by ID. When queried for an object or objects, the collection manager uses a binary search to find the requested objects. Persistence is implemented by the 'Flatten/UnFlatten' family of commands. The Collection manager flatten format is private, but GX uses a custom flattening procedure that flattens a GX structure to the publically documented GX stream format (See GX Environment and Utilities.) In addition GX's memory manager has a virtual memory system which will page shapes and structures out to disk in low-memory situations or when requested to do so by a process. )Well, now you've just described the Postscript font-caching machinery. )PS does a great deal of behind the scenes optimization, so that when a )glyph from a font (or a user path) is rasterized, that rasterization need )not be repeated for a given size/orientation/whatever. GX does this and more for all of its primitives. For instance in addition to remembering rasterizations GX will remember the computations done in transforming and clipping a shape's geometry to the various viewports that it may be drawn to, this info is resolution independent and takes up less space than a full backing store. Which is another separate caching option. )You keep saying we "don't get it" about GX. I'm saying now, that you are )evidently quite new to Postscript. You keep making sweeping statements )about the limitations of DPS, that show me that you have never written )a userpath, never used a postscript dictionary, and never created a user )defined font. Ah, but its very safe to say that GX's designers have and they actively sought to improve on all aspects of Display Postscript which was evaluated by Apple years ago. ;) -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advoc #################################################################### From: Mark.A.Tarbell@jpl.nasa.gov (Mark Tarbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: - NeXTApple logo.gif (1/1) My contribution to the NeXT/Apple logos Date: 11 Jan 1997 00:29:47 GMT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena CA, USA Message-ID: <5b6mtr$o2d@starlight.jpl.nasa.gov> References: <cwood41-ya023080000201971856590001@news.caps.maine.edu> How about this? 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M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M_______________O]^^JJJHK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK=RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK M*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RMKM3G6Y\;_________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M____________________________________________________________ M___________________________________________________>[]8K*RLK M*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RLK*RM:M3'&YZW_ M____________________________________________________________ M____#################################################################### Path: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!fu-berlin.de!news.nacamar.de!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!204.245.3.50!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 16:54:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Lines: 73 Message-ID: <AEFC27EF-21CE5A@198.68.42.168> References: <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> X-Posted-By: @198.68.42.168 (english) X-Mailer: Cyberdog/1.2 X-News-Servers: news.primenet.com X-Newsgroups-TO: nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de comp.sys.next.misc:24572 comp.sys.mac.misc:131570 comp.sys.mac.system:191203 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:178774 comp.sys.next.advocacy:52727 >> The problem is that using DPS for everything would create a huge >> performance bottleneck for some applications, in addition to making some >> things *much* harder for developers to program. > > Much harder than what? GX? Not a single app I have uses it, and DPS is >no harder to use than QD. OK, how do you create a rectangle under DPS? How do you move it around under DPS? With GX, if you want to move a rectangle around, it is a single call to modify the transform of the shape. You can continually update teh location of the shape (*ANY*) shape using this technique. Want to change the color of a rectangle? Modify the ink's color. Want to bleed colors through from one object to the next? Modify the ink's transfer mode. How do you provide TWO views of the same object that happens to be integrated into a larger object? How do you move the larger object around? How do you edit the smaller object in its own view? These are all trivial in GX. How are they done using DPS? How do you edit a shape to contain a new textual element that can later be edited? WIth GX, it is trivial. With DPS? The question isn't just: is DPS as easy to use as QuickDraw. The questions are also: Does DPS provide the same kind of support as GX? Is it easier to provide GX services on top of DPS by creating GX-ish class libraries or is it easier to provide GX services along side of DPS by adding an escape code to DPS to call GX directly? (remember that both of these require that GX be made thread safe) Is it easier to provide GX typography services to DPS or to provide them via GX itself? (remember that you have to make the GX algorithms thread-safe either way and provide the GX font discipline on top of a font format that was never designed for it). Is it better for developers to have to relearn every single API when they migrate to Rhapsody, or would it be easier for them to code to a common, device-resolution independent model under both System 7 and Rhapsody? Etc. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: "David Every" <dke@adnc.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 10 Jan 97 18:30:17 +0000 Organization: adnc.com Distribution: inet Message-ID: <AEFC3B3F-480AD@207.158.11.9> References: <32D691F9.3D2E04C0@screaming.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.os.ms-windows, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.unix.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.software, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy, nntp://news.adnc.com/comp.soft-sys.nextstep > David Every wrote: > > Of course thats the point - there is more room on RISC for Cache, and > > its easier to add logic to avoid cache stalls and for prefetch... > > meaning that you are more likely to get a cache hit vs a stall which > > can be MORE than 8 times faster. > > May I ask why this is important to newsgroups for systems that > run on multiple processors? I admit that it's a selling-point > for systems that are dependent on PPC, but I don't think those > vendors relish their platform dependencies. Apple's acquisition > of OpenStep, to me, indicates that they no longer want their > API to be tied to an architecture -- so that Apple is no longer > tied to the success or failure of a particular architecture. I agree to a point.... But whats your question/point? I was responding to someone about differences in RISC/CISC architecture and implementation... this seems like a bit of a diversion if you ask me. I think apple DOES want more flexibility. But that was never the issue.= > Doesn't "The Macintosh Way" have something to do with not having > to be concerned with the details of cache stalls? As a user? Sure.... as a programmer? Not so sure. And you need to worry about those things if you are a low level programmer at all.... fortunately concepts like OpenStep (or Rhapsody) should allow more programmers to stay at a higher level..... hmmm... that sounds like a MacWay to me as well. ;-) -- David K. Every MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way! -- =A91997 DKE. Non-exclusive, royalty free license to distribute is granted to any service provider except Microsoft. By distributing this, Microsoft agrees to pay $1,000 per posting.
From: dcorn@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:07:36 GMT Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32dc9fc0.529753@news.onramp.net> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <32d7fc3d.82279872@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5ba00l$321@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32da8f2b.251026236@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5bfjit$8km@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 14 Jan 97 01:35:06 GMT, t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) wrote: > I think they plan to have a 266mhz ppro this year? A 300mhz ppro seem > possible. Compaq has had Klamath 266s for quite a while now. 300 mhz is no big deal from there, although I do want to see the 100 mhz busses - _that_ will be an improvement. ________________________________________________ Reachable at: 713 629 6947 nights Please quote in all replies
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: hans@onevision.de (Hans Stoeger) Subject: Re: Mac programmers converting to MacStep Message-ID: <E3yB47.1qM@onevision.de> Sender: news@onevision.de Organization: OneVision GmbH, Regensburg, Germany References: <tbrown-ya023580001201970234590001@news.netset.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:33:43 GMT In article <tbrown-ya023580001201970234590001@news.netset.com> tbrown@netset.com (Ted Brown) writes: > In article <AEF7C327-5C23F@198.53.172.86>, "Dale Friesen" > <dalef@bolen.bc.ca> wrote: > > > >Please pardon my ignorance, but since NeXT runs on different CPUs is it > >necessary to recompile for each? Or are the APIs fairly high level such > >that you can write something for NeXT, drop it on a CD-ROM and anyone > >running the OS (regardless of hardware) can use it? If the latter, will > >this include the Mac running Rhapsody (the NeXT-based MacOS)? > > You have to recompile for each. As long as you didn't resort to using > assembler, you can simply recompile for each platform. Note that this is a > recompile, not add a bunch of #defines, and some extra code. NeXT has even > made most of the little vs. big endian issues transparent (well in Obj-C > anyway, not sure about C++). > Unfortunatly Ted s answer is too misleading. OPENSTEP for MachOS ( thats the systep MacStep will probably based on) has a feature called FAT binaries, this means code for more then one processor is included in the applikation. What you do is, when you compile you select on which processors you want your programm to run on, but it is only one programm you have to ship. As part of this is based in the Mach kernel this feature is not available in OPENSTEP for Windows NT, but that is complete source compatibel, and maybe even better, the resulting Apps are also have kompatibel data files! ====================================================================== Hans Stoeger OneVision GmbH Support Zeiss-Strasse 9 Email: hans@onevision.de D-93053 Regensburg No big mails, Please! Germany
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 00:13:24 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001101970013240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001972018070001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32D6F5D9.4497@ozemail.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32D6F5D9.4497@ozemail.com.au>, Eric Ulevik <eau@ozemail.com.au> wrote: )Eric King wrote: )> IMO, it'll be ~3-4 years before anything close to a large number )> of Rhapsody native apps will be available. Sure the big ones will cross )> over soon, but a lot of developers just won't be able to afford the )> transition costs. ) )I can't agree more. This is the problem: it will be cheaper and easier )for developers to transition to Windows than to Rhapsody. ) )Apple should have bought Be. Nah, it didn't have anything really compelling aside from a fast window manager. Furthermore as Apple learned with the CommonPoint fiasco one should *not* base an OS around C++. OpenStep's Objective-C basis sounds much cleaner and less complex than CommonPoint's C++ equivalent. I have a feeling Be's decision to use C++ is going to come back and haunt them in a few years. The real problem here is that Apple management is just a bit too eager to toss backwards compatibility into the wind. What Apple should be working full steam ahead on is a simplified API that provides most of the common GUI elements and system functions and runs unmodified on Sys. 7.x and in the 'yellow box' As was hashed out in the AIMED talk mailing list, GX provided a clean and simple way of doing this if GX Graphics was supported in Rhapsody. (DPS need not be affected or changed at all.) Now even that option may no longer be viable. There's nothing in OpenStep or the current 'design' of Rhapsody that can run on 7.x without a lot of work. I'm sure the Appkit and Interface Builder are wondrous things and that porting won't be too bad, but developers are still looking at something's that's pretty close to a total rewrite for a market that's going to be a tiny fraction of today's current market. It doesn't have to be this way. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 14 Jan 1997 08:18:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AF00F4DB-4F859@198.68.42.175> References: <5bg2e0$ar2@bignews.shef.ac.uk> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: > >On 01/14/97, Eric King wrote: >> True, but some of GX's features like its printing and caching >> architecture or its transfer modes can't be added over DPS without a hell >> of a lot of work. For me since I'm writing custom UI widgets, GX's hit >> testing functions are a very crucial and powerful feature. I'm not even >> sure if a general hit testing solution is possible in Postscript given its >> language basis. >> >Umm, so how do I click on things in the DPS GUI? > >Read the Adobe Purple book, pp67, 135, 138-41, 141-45. That's hardly an answer, since most of us don't have access to the Adobe Purple book. Why don't you give us a summary, instead? --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 19:02:08 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFC45C9-28D29A@198.68.42.200> References: <rex-ya023080001001971920290001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric King <rex@mit.edu> said: > Ah, but its very safe to say that GX's designers have and they actively >sought to improve on all aspects of Display Postscript which was evaluated >by Apple years ago. ;) Which is why all of this talk about abandoning GX doesn't make ANY sense at all. I can see exposing the GXLayout and GXTypography stuff to DPS calls, but to actually cease to support GX? Makes no sense at all. *ESPECIALLY* since GX is a more powerful engine than Bravo (or so one surmises) and is already shipping on one platform with a cross-platform demo given at the last COMDEX. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: sword@mindlink.net (Andrew Brownsword) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:32:49 -0800 Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Message-ID: <sword-1101971332490001@line082.nwm.mindlink.net> References: <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> <5b6fb6$gst@news.next.com> In article <5b6fb6$gst@news.next.com>, Eren_Kotan@next.com wrote: > > On my system I can play 9 Quicktime videos at the same time... > > You can see I was not cheating (as if!) because I was using NEXTIME under > OPENSTEP/Mach for Intel 4.1 which shows a little play icon when the clip > is stopped and a little pause icon when the clip is playing. In my > screenshots, all 9 of the video clips have pause icons :) > > As I say, I don't want to get involved in the argument over whether this > is a meaningful benchmark or not, but I personally thought it *was* rather > impressive: > > - All the videos had sound and I could click on any window to hear its > soundtrack (in sync with whatever the video was showing at the time), > - Two of the movie windows were set to display at double the normal size, > - There were several apps in the background running, > - I was still able to type in some text in a Mail window (no loss of > responsiveness) > - All of this only ate less than 25% CPU time as you can see in the second > screenshot from the output of ps -aux. > > The only reason why I stated 9 as my upper limit of videos is because I > only have 9 Quicktime clips on my hard disk, and also there wouldn't be > any more screen real estate to display more movie windows on my lowly > 1024x768 screen :) > > Eren Kotan - NeXT Software (UK) Limited oh, one moment, it's Apple now You'll have to forgive the skeptical Mac users at the moment, Eren. We've been stuck with a dog slow file system and a cooperative multitasking environment so long that its easy to forget how fast our hardware actually is. I am very much looking forward to the results of this merger of technologies. -- Andrew Brownsword Software Engineer Electronic Arts (Canada), Inc. "All opinions here in are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer."
From: jmckee@miaco.com (Joshua T. McKee) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:58:56 GMT Organization: Miaco Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32d7fc3d.82279872@client.sw.news.psi.net> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> On Sat, 11 Jan 97 01:04:42 GMT, t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) wrote: >In article <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84>, "David Every" <dke@adnc.com> wrote: >>Sure... CISC chips CAN be faster - but they can't keep up, and cost >>more to design, etc.... as for better resources at hand the CISC have >>yet to prove that - to get the performance on CISC (like PPro) you >>have to have alignment issues, etc. that make it look more like a RISC >>than a CISC anyways - and you get code creep the same as RISC. So >>wheres the advantage? >> > > PPrO is a VERY bad cisc example... its a cisc (variable instruction size, >etc..) but only work well with risc like instruction. And the x86 instruction >set is an horrible instruction set. Why? The Pentium Pro happens to be one of the fastest chips around. What makes it a bad example? > Your whole argument is based on a PPRO vs PPC for CISC vs RISC. And why not? They are two of the most popular chips in use today. And since they are used in the machines being debated in this newsgroup, it seems like they would be a logical choice. Your are correct in that he is comparing only two processors, but he is comparing competing processors that are relavent to this newsgroup. > The advantage of cisc is in the end you get more computing done per byte. The advantage comes if the compiler takes advantage of these more complex instructions that allow for this "more computing". If a compiler ignore#################################################################### Path: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!uni-erlangen.de!news.apfel.de!fu-berlin.de!news.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!csulb.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!newsfeed.intelenet.net!rbarris From: rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:50:14 -0800 Organization: Quicksilver Software, Inc. Lines: 35 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: karnov.quicksilver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.2 Xref: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de comp.os.linux.advocacy:88390 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:147299 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:178946 comp.unix.advocacy:36233 comp.sys.next.software:27333 comp.sys.next.misc:24589 comp.sys.next.advocacy:52813 comp.soft-sys.nextstep:2848 > This is oh so true. I've got two 68K MOT instruction set manuals. One > calls the processor a 16 bit unit, the other proudly announces it as > an advanced 32 bit processor (SAME processor part number). One manual > was before Apple literature described the 68K as a 32 bit processor, > the other after - connection? This reminds me of the transistor count > game that was played with transistor radios. I once disassembled a > 14-transistor Radio Shack radio. 2 of the transistors were wired and > used as diodes, 4 had ALL THREE leads soldered together and tacked > here and there on the PCB. So, what I really had was an 8 transistor > radio and 2 of those had little if any effect on performance. It's ALL > in the marketing.... Bogus. Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a processor. You attribute malice or deception to simple confusion in literature and terminology. The fact remains that flat 32-bit code could be and was written on the 68000 from the very beginning, lots of it, this was and is a benefit to its users. If you don't believe me, why not pop over to comp.arch and ask some folks around there whether they think the 68K family qualifies as a 32-bit processor design, or if Moto tried to deceive anyone by promoting it as such. Rob Barris Quicksilver Software Inc. rbarris@quicksilver.com * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system From: tom@icgned.nl (Tom Hageman) Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Message-ID: <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> Sender: news@icgned.nl Organization: IC Group References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:37:45 GMT "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.net> wrote: >We Nubus PowerMac Apple loyalists from the 128 days shall not be neglected, >ignored or passed over by Apple today. We are forming a class action that >you too can recoup your losses from Apple's breaches of contract. That's the true American spirit! (litigate! litigate! litigate!) (liberally apply :-) for the sarcasm impaired...) Seriously, isn't this a bit premature? Apple said that Rhapsody would support all current hardware. -- __/__/__/__/ Tom Hageman <tom@basil.icce.rug.nl> [NeXTmail/Mime OK] __/ __/_/ IC Group <tom@icgned.nl> (work) __/__/__/ "Ed is the standard text editor" __/ _/_/ -- Unix Programmer's Manual
From: Pohl Longsine <pohl@screaming.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: DPS Hit Detection Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:23:40 -0600 Organization: mementech, inc. Message-ID: <32DBDD3C.1EBAB5AF@screaming.org> References: <5bg2e0$ar2@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AF00F4DB-4F859@198.68.42.175> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lawson English wrote: > mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: > >On 01/14/97, Eric King wrote: > >> For me since I'm writing custom UI widgets, GX's hit testing > >> functions are a very crucial and powerful feature. I'm not even > >> sure if a general hit testing solution is possible in Postscript > >> given its language basis. > >> > > >...so how do I click on things in the DPS GUI? > >Read the Adobe Purple book, pp67, 135, 138-41, 141-45. > > That's hardly an answer, since most of us don't have access to the > Adobe Purple book. Why don't you give us a summary, instead? I've got a copy right here. infill and inneofill -- returns true if any portion of the point along the user path passed as an argument lies in the region painted by fill or eofill of the current path instroke -- returns true if any portion of the point or user path lies in the region painted by a stroke of the current path. The three following operators are similar except they use a user path instead of the current path. inufill inueofill inustroke > --------------------------------------------------- > NeXT was a company. NeXTstep still is a community. > --------------------------------------------------- -- pohl@screaming.org |"Reality is that which when you stop believing http://screaming.org/ | in it doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick ----------------------+---------------------------------------------- OpenStep Inferno Java | Making the world safe for platform diversity.
From: massello@primenet.com (Neill Massello) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The Road Ahead Date: 13 Jan 1997 01:35:01 -0700 Organization: Eidola Enterprises Message-ID: <massello-ya02408000R1301970134380001@news.primenet.com> References: <32C36479.2668@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5a1vbt$1ab@mercury.IntNet.net> <32C7250E.2913@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <scottm-ya02408000R3012961621510001@news.erols.com> <32d45347.486227558@snews.zippo.com> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960258540001@news.erols.com> <32D884F8.291F@nwlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In article <32D884F8.291F@nwlink.com>, Rosarium <rosarium@nwlink.com> wrote: > On interesting thing is that in an artical in the Seattle Times Microsoft > announced that they are going to support the Apple NeXT platform. Now that > will be very intersting--Microsoft develping on a UNIX system. I think it's > the treat of Job's Toy Story fame that has them changing their tunes. Microsoft would have made that announcement anyway, even if they never intended to publish a Mac/NeXT application, just to deter others from entering the Mac market. Microsoft is the undisputed master of vapor and FUD.
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 13 Jan 1997 06:40:03 GMT Organization: Squonk-Net, Loudonville, NY 12211 Message-ID: <5bclc3$bk0@duke.squonk.net> References: <AEFD7E24-40A8A@207.158.13.54> <rex-ya023080001201971135220001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > OpenDOC integration's definitely going to be a sticky thing. > Apple's *not* going to abandon that technology, yet its going to > be hard gafting it into the Appkit. GX could ease things because > its a much much closer fit for the ODF than Postscript. (Just > about every ODF GUI structure has a direct GX analog, and they're > referenced in exactly the same way.) My guess is that it won't be all that hard figuring out how to get OpenDoc working under Rhapsody. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
Message-ID: <32D99144.278A@tnet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:35:00 -0800 From: Ari Ukkonen <ariukkonen@tnet.net> Organization: ThunderSoft Consulting Services MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephan Schaem wrote: > Its because the x86 is terrible in design... and in turn the code is not > smaller then risc code, but suffer all the cisc disadventages. > x86 is not cisc , P6 is not risc. x86 are just crap design. > > Dont label P6 code CISC and then prove a point that way... > > The general idea is that cisc can code more computation per byte, > please look at a 680x0 for a better example. ). I'm not saying a 68000 > is faster then a 500mhz PPC, just that byte for byte a 68000 acheive more, > and in turn require less bandwidth and less instruction cache size. It is truely a shame that the X86 platform is dominant instead of the 68K series with many 32bit register and clean design. Imagine what the 68k series would have been like if it was the defacto standard. With all that R&D money motorola could have made some kick-ass cpus. > > Stephan -- Ari Ukkonen Reply-To: ariukkonen@tnet.net or Ari_Ukkonen@amusers.victoria.bc.ca Amiga CD32+SX1 6 megs '020 14MHz Amiga 2000HD 1meg chip KS2.04 49MB HD NEC Ready 9522 P100 Mhz, 16 megs, 1.6 gig HDD, 4X CD, MPEG 1MB 64bit PCI ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "95% of computers are used by morons, and you need a MoronOS to keep them happy. There are only two: Windows and MacOS." (Dave Haynie) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my homepages at:http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/7481/ and http://members.tripod.com/~Ukkonen/
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:19:30 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-1301971319300001@199.166.204.230> References: <AEFD7E24-40A8A@207.158.13.54> <rex-ya023080001201971135220001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5bclc3$bk0@duke.squonk.net> In article <5bclc3$bk0@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: > My guess is that it won't be all that hard figuring out how to > get OpenDoc working under Rhapsody. The problem is there are a couple of ways to do it. The "correct" one would be to make the OpenStep libraries include code for writing Bento out, and include the embeding functionality. This would make NeXTStep "the opendoc OS" with no additional code etc. Ports of this new lib would then be needed to the other platforms that OpenStep supports, and for the other OS's that support OD via ODF. On the other hand they could port ODF to the new OS directly, as another shell over the OpenStep libraries. This would make ODF run directly in the new OS, although via yet another wrapper. Finally they could port ODF directly to DPS and it's windowing system, using it's own event system etc. The result of the last two is that you basically have _three_ boxes in the OS, Blue, Yellow and (effectively) ODF. Uggg. The best solution is the first, because then all applications become OD, it's invisible as it should be. Maury
From: Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Beginner questions Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 02:5#################################################################### From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:05:32 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> In article <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > GX is already part of System 7. Not it's *not*, it's 4% of the systems out there! That's a very serious problem. You're stating that it's better to... a) port GX to the new OS b) end up with TWO display models in the yellow box c) rewrite the superb NeXT GUI libs for these new calls (OUCH!) d) port THAT to Sys 7 e) make everyone with Sys 7 install GX which they don't do because it bloats the OS anyway f) get some dynamic lib system running under 68k that actually works ...and... g) rip out a lot of functions from the resulting system such that it doesn't need to have memory management, threads, protected memory etc. This is supposed to offer an advantage over... i) port OpenStep for Mach to 040 Macs. Maury
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E3yJBn.BCI@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:30:58 GMT References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu>, Joshua W. Burton <jburton@nwu.edu> wrote: >vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > >> Hi Josh, remember me? I bought a bunch of ODs from you some years >> back. > >Of course: all 126 names I wrote on all those boxes and shipping >forms at 3 in the morning are engraved forever in my mind. Especially >the one who sent me delicious German chocolates! > Wow, Joshua. Sorry I didn't send you any Canadian maple syrup or something. :-) >Yep, it's a sad world. Maybe we should stay away from this Apple >thing, now that we're suddenly popular, and try to push for a GnuBe >port or something. Actually, that name is kind of cute, huh? > In a lot of ways I'm very afraid of the Apple thing for just these reasons t-and for the fact that it makes c.s.n.advocacy even worse than before. Same crossposting wankers, but now they have a mandate to post there. :-( -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: Mark_Bessey@next.com (Mark Bessey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 14 Jan 1997 20:07:55 GMT Organization: NeXT Software, Inc. Message-ID: <5bgp2r$fmo@news.next.com> References: <howarth-ya02408000R1301971918140001@news.ececs.uc.edu> Jack Howarth writes > And if you read the interview with Tevenian carefully NeXT is > continuing all their existing product development and releases. It > shall be very interesting to see how NeXT (a company who because of > low profits I doubt maintains excess programming staff) manages to > juggle all their previous work and the Mac port at the same time. We'll manage somehow, and don't forget that we're gettting a lot of help from Apple. > I also find it very telling that Apple has so little to bring to the > table that they are only a third of the programming team. Not exactly. NeXT has a total of about 100 engineers, working on ALL our current projects. Apple is adding 50 or so people to our (much smaller) OS team. -- Mark Bessey NeXT Software, Inc Software Quality Assurance -->I DON'T SPEAK FOR NeXT <--
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 13 Jan 1997 14:37:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFFFC3F-37901@198.68.42.245> References: <5bdfjm$m26@bignews.shef.ac.uk> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Cyberdog-AltBoundary-000377B3" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-000377B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Some of things the >> printing architecture does would be next to impossible with straight >> Postscript instead of GX PDDs as its basis. >> >Such as? > >PostScript is a *programming language*: you can tell it to do whatever you >want it to. OK, tell every second word of every line of every line of text that has been rotated 15 degrees from the horizontal that it should be colored a new color that is 15% transparent. GX printing defines page objects and shape lists for every page object. How do you do THAT with a cola nut? -----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Windows: Tumor-causing, teeth-staining, smelly, puking habit. -----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- --Cyberdog-AltBoundary-000377B3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-000377B3" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Cyberdog-MixedBoundary-000377B3 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <X-FONTSIZE><PARAM>12</PARAM><FONTFAMILY><PARAM>Palatino</PARAM>>> Some#################################################################### Path: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!fu-berlin.de!news.mathworks.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!warwick!bignews.shef.ac.uk!usenet From: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next,programmer,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: DPS Hit Detection Followup-To: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Date: 14 Jan 1997 22:23:22 GMT Organization: University of Sheffield, UK Lines: 68 Message-ID: <5bh10q$c1s@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <5bg2e0$ar2@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AF00F4DB-4F859@198.68.42.175> <32DBDD3C.1EBAB5AF@screaming.org> Reply-To: mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: daneel.dcs.shef.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <32DBDD3C.1EBAB5AF@screaming.org> X-Newsreader: NewsFlash [$Revision: 2.275 $] NF-U-00083 Xref: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de comp.sys.next.misc:24601 comp.sys.next:128 comp.sys.mac.misc:131715 comp.sys.mac.system:191495 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:179087 comp.sys.next.advocacy:52893 Followups adjusted accordingly... Oh heavens, I'm going to break my promise straight away <sigh> I'll try to justify this by way of its being of potential use to newcomers to OpenStep programming: I will not enter into any debates about the relative merits of this methodology vs GX/whatever... (I hope I will be forgiven for this Greg?) On 01/14/97, Pohl Longsine wrote: (edited slightly) > Lawson English wrote: > > mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: > > >On 01/14/97, Eric King wrote: > > >> For me since I'm writing custom UI widgets, GX's hit testing > > >> functions are a very crucial and powerful feature. I'm not even > > >> sure if a general hit testing solution is possible in Postscript > > >> given its language basis. > > >Read the Adobe Purple book, pp67, 135, 138-41, 141-45. > > > > That's hardly an answer, since most of us don't have access to the > > Adobe Purple book. Why don't you give us a summary, instead? > > infill and inneofill -- returns true if any portion of the point > along the user path passed as an argument lies in the > region painted by fill or eofill of the current path > > instroke -- returns true if any portion of the point or user > path lies in the region painted by a stroke of the current > path. > > The three following operators are similar except they use a > user path instead of the current path: > inufill, inueofill, inustroke > In addition to the straight PostScript operators, the Purple book (which IMHO will probably be a required read for many Mac developers, especially if they're considering graphics-based apps: Programming the Display PostScript system with NeXTstep Adobe Systems Inc Adison Wesley, 1992 ISBN 0-201-58135-3 -- it's somewhat out-of-date WRT NeXTstep itself, however the general DPS stuff should still be vaild -- Scott, Henry, Greg, anyone?) also mentions another option... I wanted to draw attention to an easily-missed paragraph on p140, which notes that it is possible to do hit detection without using the DPS operators. In general, assuming your mouse point and your drawn object are rectangles (or you can consider a bounding box around the drawn object), you can do hit detection using NXIntersectsRect (I presume there is an OpenStep equivalent?!) to first find whether the mouse point lies within the bounding box prior to doing any more "expensive" checks. I mentioned elsewhere an application I wrote which commonly had 4000+ items in a window (View); if I remember rightly, checking which representations intersected the mouse point saved a *lot* of time. Best wishes, mmalc. --
From: jk@esperance.com (Joel Klecker) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GNU vs. Apple (was: NextStep OS) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:55:13 -0800 Organization: Esperance Communications Message-ID: <jk-1301972155130001@ip-salem1-12.teleport.com> References: <32BAF054.389C@rhea-and-kaiser.com> <dscott-ya023080002012961831160001@news.texas.net> <59fhjq$ioj@news.bctel.net> <sjonke-2112960036380001@outside.jagunet.com> <59grop$s7@news.acns.nwu.edu> <woody-2112961510090001@192.0.2.1> <59l7c4$14c@crl12.crl.com> <199612230728332472532@i2-26.islandnet.com> <woody-1201971314470001@192.0.2.1> Fingerprint="12 92 9C E4 60 DF 62 CD FC AD 18 47 9A 74 E7 D1"; access-type=URL; URL="http://www.esperance.com/pgp-key.asc" In article <woody-1201971314470001@192.0.2.1>, woody@alumni.caltech.edu (William Edward Woody) wrote: > GNU's jihad against Apple ended a few years ago. Right after (I suspect) > realizing that Microsoft isn't exactly a stranger to litigation. And > realizing that most GNU users are PC users. *bzzzt* wrong. The Apple boycott was started by the LPF(because of the infamous "look and feel" lawsuit), FSF/GNU joined the boycott. After Apple lost that case, the LPF ceased its boycott and subsequently so did FSF/GNU. -- Joel Klecker http://www.esperance.com/ When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E409x6.9BE@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:03:05 GMT References: <x6ybdwx5wn.fsf@queequeg.uchicago.edu> <32DB6BC1.689D@ibp.de> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <32DB6BC1.689D@ibp.de>, Lars Immisch <lars@ibp.de> wrote: >James Felix Black wrote: > >[snip] > >It's some time ago I saw a Cube... > It's an hour ago since I saw one. ;-) >> While I while away the hours waiting for a reliable connect to >> peanuts, I thought that I'd post a few random questions. I may soon >> (depending in part on the answers to my questions) aquire an '040 cube >> (25mhz). >> >> 1. How necessary is the OD? The system has a defective drive. Can it >> be easily replaced? How much should I expect to pay for one? > >It's not necessary, just nice. You will want a bigger hard disk instead >of the OD, probably. > That's what I'd do. Unless you have piles of disks that you really want to use, the OD isn't such a great plan. You can get them for $100 if you look carefully. >> 2. Does a cube support the floppy drive? If so, how much should I >> expect to pay for one? > >It's got one. Pretty sure. > Some do, some don't. Cubes that shipped as '040s have them internally, while upgraded '030 cubes don't. Since you have an optical drive, yours sounds like an upgraded '030. Side note: this is almost the only difference between a "stock" '040 and an upgraded '030, so don't sweat it. The power supplies are a little different in design, and you may have problems running a NeXTdimension system without a mono monitor on an upgraded '030 cube. Basically, the power supply turns itself off since it thinks there isn't enough current being drawn without the monochrome display. You can eit#################################################################### Path: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!lrz-muenchen.de!uni-erlangen.de!news.apfel.de!news.radio.cz!CESspool!news.uoregon.edu!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.cs.utah.edu!news.cc.utah.edu!dopey.met.utah.edu!user From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:58:37 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Lines: 18 Message-ID: <mazulauf-1401971458370001@dopey.met.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.met.utah.edu Xref: news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de comp.sys.next.misc:24610 comp.sys.mac.system:191563 In article <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca>, lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote: > mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu (Mike Zulauf) wrote: > > > If we have to buy a new machine to get a modern OS, we'll do so... > > As in WindowsNT? Give me a break. I would rather use System7. Well then you're welcome to it. I'll agree that NT 4 isn't as esthetically nice in many ways, but it's much better than it was, and has many significant advantages over System 7. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: Charles W Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:56:22 -0500 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <8mrGVKW00iV945mC55@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <simpsonh-ya02408000R1401972141060001@news.dca.net> In-Reply-To: <simpsonh-ya02408000R1401972141060001@news.dca.net> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 14-Jan-97 Re: Feedback to Apple about.. by Homer Simpson@post.drexe > I think that in May there will be some real road maps made explaining all > of the Unkowns. My fear is that this new os will be nothing more than > OpenStep repackaged. This does not excite me at all. What's new, what's > exciting about it? It's UNIX for crying outloud with a pretty interface. Can I say that you're very much mistaken about what OPENSTEP is without starting an argument? Perhaps not, but we'll see. Fact: OPENSTEP is not Unix. OPENSTEP is a platform-independant API and object library for developing applications which can run on many platforms-- not just Unix. For a real-world example, remember that you can run OPENSTEP apps on NT. [ ... ] > I had hoped for a truely modern os that would take advantage of > improvements made to memory management, files systems and distributed > symetric multiprocessing that have been discussed in Computer Science over > the last decade. Instead we are getting the same basic design that System > Vr4 gave us with some things fixed and a nice facade to a command line > interface along with 2.5 Mach kernel which is about 7 or 8 years old now. Where to start? First, the Mach kernel used under NEXTSTEP is a well designed piece of work. It has good preemptive multitasking with kernel thread support. It has a very good virtual memory implementation, including copy-on-write, shared memory via pages mapping into multiple address spaces and fast IPC via Mach messaging to either local or remote processes. NeXT has never released an SMP version of NEXTSTEP, but Mach is SMP-capable, and didn't Apple say there were going to support SMP? While NEXTSTEP normally uses the Berkeley FFS (which again is a well-done, mature filesystem implementation that's much better than HFS, FAT-xx, or HPFS, and reasonably comparible to NTFS), there was a version of TransArc's Andrew File System (AFS) available which gave ACL's, replicated fileservers, and so forth. Could Mach be improved? Of course. It would be great if they supported user paging objects, updated their NFS implementation, and added more of the BSD 4.4 networking capabilities (although NEXTSTEP does include some of the BSD 4.4 functionality). I also wouldn't mind seeing the FFS be replaced by JFS or XFS, but that's less important. > I won't even begin to discuss the security issues that unix can present. I would note that the vast majority of security problems with Unix systems are due to poor administration and OS vendors shipping insecure systems. Apple would do itself and its customers a big favor by handling security better than other OS vendors have done in the past. > NeXT has done a fine job of hiding most of UNIX with its appKits and its > Objective C usage but it is still Unix under the hood. NEXTSTEP is, yes. That's one of NEXTSTEP's greatest strengths compared to most of the other operating systems used on personal computers. As I said above, OPENSTEP has nothing to do with Unix. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: Charles Bennett <chuck@benatong.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Termcap entry for Linux? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:30:57 -0500 Organization: BenaTong Message-ID: <32DCF831.2C53@benatong.com> References: <lwu3u9d802.fsf@rebus.physics.mcgill.ca> <4uo2h1$6bk@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------56B4459748E84" ------------56B4459748E84 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Assuming you are running bash on the linux box you can also add the line TERM="vt100" to your local .bashrc and the problem will go away. I run RedHat 4.0 and NeXTSTEP 3.3 on Intel and Black Chuck -- "A good OS is like good government: it allows threads to run freely so long as they do not interfere with other threads, then kills them cleanly if they do." ------------56B4459748E84 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <HTML><BODY> <DT>Assuming you are running bash on the linux box you can also add the line</DT> <DT>TERM="vt100" to your local .bashrc and the problem will go away.</DT> <DT> </DT> <DT>I run RedHat 4.0 and NeXTSTEP 3.3 on Intel and Black</DT> <DT> </DT> <DT>Chuck<BR> -- <BR> "A good OS is like good government: it allows threads to run freely so long as<BR> they do not interfere with other threads, then kills them cleanly if they do."<BR> </DT> </BODY> </HTML> ------------56B4459748E84--
From: racecarr@soltec.com (Tony M. Carr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:09:35 -0600 Organization: Race Carr Unlimited Message-ID: <racecarr-ya02408000R1401972009350001@news.cu.soltec.com> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <lewisda-ya023580001301970205390001@news.dal.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <lewisda-ya023580001301970205390001@news.dal.ca>, lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote: > "Ken Schrock" <kens@cannet.com> wrote: > > > Dave L. <lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY> wrote in article > > > I think that most Mac users would want to stay with Apple. > > > > Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? > > That's easy... fear mongering. > Or the Wintel side is growing faster than the Mac side. IE if the total number of Macs increase 5% and the PCs increase 8%, the Mac's percentage of the total would decrease. I'm sure the total number of Macs is use increased. Tony C. -- Tony M. Carr Veteran of the Psychic War
From: "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 14 Jan 97 17:56:36 -0800 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <AF01798E-1047D8@206.173.241.140> References: <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.concentric.net/comp.sys.mac.system >I believe in the absence of a huge outcry from the Mac community Apple will try to >put [Nubus Powermac owners] out to pasture on System 7.x. > Jack I'm observing the growing number of related NewsGroups we in these related threads are broadcasting to - and the growing number of lengthening, related threads in this NewsGroup. It won't be long until most of this group's threads go to the issue of Apple's unbridled abandonment of her core loyalist who helped establish the Macintosh paradigm in 1984 and those of us more recently from the first generation of PowerMac owners. Apple, sit up and be on notice: We_are_organizing a class-action resistance to your back-handedness! Remember to Boycott 7.6. - Paul Prior to sending email, remove '.REMOVEthisToRespond' in the From field.
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:47:41 -0400 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001401972347410001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971932260001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: ) Why? DPS doesn't run on 7.x. )> Why? That's totally unnecessary. If anything all that would need to be )> done is implement some GX alternatives. i.e. you'd have a standard DPS text )> object and a GX text object. Both should be useable in the same window. )> When printing the Postscript code generated from the GX objects in a window )> would be sent along with the DPS code. ) ) So how are you going to handle windows that want one, the other, or )both? It's back to DPS. No its not. The GX objects use GX to draw, the DPS objects use DPS to draw. The only problem is arbitration and clipping. Something Apple's going to *have* to figure out anyway if they want QD 3D and Quicktime to perform well. All of the Quick**** technologies want/need direct access to the screen. Fortunately Next has already done some work in the area with Interceptor, but it sounds like the architecture needs some cleaning up before its ready to serve as a basis for QTML. ) So we get a system in which if you want portability you sacrifice )functionality. Uhhh, that's why they _dropped_ Copeland, remember? Uh no, the reason why they dropped Copland was because the Copland team had spent too much time working on side projects like porting the window manager and other crusty 68k code to C and trying to do impossible tasks like get Quickdraw to become protected memory and PMT-friendly. (straight from the mouths of Apple system software engineers...) Trying to graft GX's technologies on to DPS has that same impossible feeling that enhancing Classic Quickdraw for preemptive multitasking and protected memory did. Sure it sounds doable from the start but when you look deeper one encounters all sorts of nasty little technical problems. In retrospect (according to them) it would have been far easier if they had just gone full-steam ahead with GX, and told developers that Quickdraw and its dependent would never be usable outside of the compatibility box. Further they should have left the window, menu, etc. managers as is, and started work on newer GX-based replacements years ago. Developers would have been able to move to the new APIs under 7.x and when 8.0 finally rolled around those same apps would be instantly preemptively multitasked and protected. A new window manager *should* have been released simultaneously with GX (what else are those client heaps and viewport hierarchies for...), but Apple didn't think such a thing was necessary at the time and that they'd eventually get around to it. So what we saw were bizarre announcements like Copland would support fully preemptive and protected tasks as long as they *didn't* use any of the GUI-related Toolbox calls. However GX would probably still be callable from those tasks... Overall GX technology has been woefully mishandled, but despite that mishandling GX Typography is still a very crucial Apple technology, and one that is causing quite a bit of interest and development in Asian markets. The problem is that most of its effects are implemented on top of a shape and object database that is non-existent in Postscript and the Appkit. Furthermore the database is such that it doesn't cleanly fit in as extra DPS code or as extensions to class in the Appkit. If Apple's going to be punching holes in the screen for QTML, chances are it'll be *much* easier to just let GX use those same holes and extend the appkit with a few new classes. This way there's less of a chance of breaking something in the Appkit and there's the potential to provide some limited functionality bridges for 7.x developers. It should also speed the Rhapsody port, by keeping GX intact Apple doesn't have to reimplement and change the appkit and DPS system. When the QTML integration is done GX can just tag along, and widgets based on its layout edit libraries and other features could be implemented very quickly. ) Yes, but only if it's running. GX always runs if it's installed. That's because its always doing something, remember it takes over font rendering. I believe GX devotes ~200k or so to its font caches. For compatibility reasons Classic Quickdraw's Font caches have to be kept around also. As 7.x's VM system continues to improve and GX is upgraded, the memory requirements will go down. )as soon as you print, that jumps to about 2 meg. And then goes back down when you're done. Your point? )> We're not talking about something that would serve the needs of every )> developer, just those with small to medium size apps and who would benefit )> from having a Rhapsody native version of their app that also ran on older )> systems. ) ) Which OpenStep already does. OpenStep most assuredly does *NOT* provide that. I'm talking about operating systems, not hardware systems. If you follow Apple's road map it'll probably be 2-3 years before a very compatible Rhapsody release is made. It's not at all unlikely that most users will take a wait and see approach, and stick with the 7.x upgrades until they're sure everything they want to run is available on Rhapsody. For developers this means that they'll have to support 7.x for quite a while and that support will substantially delay the transition to Rhapsody. ) NeXT does, they used to run on 040's. NeXT Cubes and NeXTstations are *not* the same as '040 Macs. It's a support chip problem that's preventing Apple from supporting the older systems. They haven't kept good records on the low-level details of their hardware designs. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: DPS Hit Detection Date: 15 Jan 1997 04:37:23 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5bhmu3$ntg@news.digifix.com> References: <5bg2e0$ar2@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <AF00F4DB-4F859@198.68.42.175> <32DBDD3C.1EBAB5AF@screaming.org> In-Reply-To: <32DBDD3C.1EBAB5AF@screaming.org> On 01/14/97, Pohl Longsine wrote: >Lawson English wrote: >> mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: >> >On 01/14/97, Eric King wrote: >> >> For me since I'm writing custom UI widgets, GX's hit testing >> >> functions are a very crucial and powerful feature. I'm not even >> >> sure if a general hit testing solution is possible in Postscript >> >> given its language basis. >> >> >> >> >...so how do I click on things in the DPS GUI? >> >Read the Adobe Purple book, pp67, 135, 138-41, 141-45. >> >> That's hardly an answer, since most of us don't have access to the >> Adobe Purple book. Why don't you give us a summary, instead? > >I've got a copy right here. > >infill and inneofill -- returns true if any portion of the point > along the user path passed as an argument lies in the > region painted by fill or eofill of the current path > >instroke -- returns true if any portion of the point or user > path lies in the region painted by a stroke of the current > path. > >The three following operators are similar except they use a >user path instead of the current path. > >inufill >inueofill >inustroke > Yes, hit detection is possible using DPS. Of course many of us have been handling hit detection for YEARS on the Macintosh without GX. The MiscKit also includes some cover objects for hit detection as I recall, although they would need to be OpenStep-afied. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.os.mach From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: OS Componenets of OpenStep for Mach Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E421ww.2CE@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:05:20 GMT References: <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au>, Jon Tidswell <jont@mri.mq.edu.au> wrote: >[ Note Cross posts ] > >Ive failed to find any concrete details about which version of Mach, >NeXT is using. NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP/Mach use a 2.5 kernel with NeXT extensions (I don't remember exactly what those are at the moment...) -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701142101.QAA15944@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: af49fe0f219f216f2cb946603cefd005 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 16:00:57 -0500 Subject: Re: cron and individual crontabs (ala SunOS) Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: af49fe0f219f216f2cb946603cefd005 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: shaffer@durer.phyast.pitt.edu (C. David Shaffer) Original Date: 13 Jan 1997 22:32:49 GMT > I just found a good reason to use cron on my NeXTstation only to > discover that it doesn't work the same way as it did on my > SPARCstation on SunOS 4.1.3. Can anyone give me pointers as to how > one might simulate the "individual crontab" instead of the system > global one in /etcv/private. I would like for users to be able to > create cron table entries without having root privs. Any pointers > appreciated. (E-mail or posts are fine). Depends on how many users you have I guess zsh is on NS 3.3 or later. You can get it from PEAK if you have pre-3.3 NOTE: you have to use the GNU egrep to use this script, or else change it to a series of "grep -v root|grep -v agent" and so on basically you want to remove the users who you DON'T want to check. #!/usr/bin/zsh me=`whoami` # this script must be run as root if [ "$me" = "root" ] then for i in `nidump passwd . | \ tr -s ':' ' ' | \ awk '{print $1}' | \ egrep -v "root|agent|nobody|uucp|news|sybase|daemon"` do if [ -x ~$i/.crontab ] then # Found crontab for this user that was # executable su $i -c ~$i/.crontab fi done fi exit 0 You could just add that script to root's cron entry, and it will run. I give no guarantees for security holes, etc etc. I just whipped this off in a hurry (*ow*). TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) / http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Unix regular expression: (.*[^-a-zA-Z0-9_.])?) Windows regular expression: "Damn.... it crashed again" [If you have a NeXTStep|OpenStep web page, email me the URL!]
From: rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:38:28 -0800 Organization: Quicksilver Software, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <rbarris-ya023280001501971738280001@news.quicksilver.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <5bjqem$n3@catapult.gatech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5bjqem$n3@catapult.gatech.edu>, gt7357a@acmey.gatech.edu (Tp12a) wrote: > Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: > : Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers > : and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and > : only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium > : and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted > : to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a > : processor. > > I always thought "bit-ness" was a wholly contrived term from > marketing-types... It seems to me that the only instance in which "bit-ness" > is really significant is on the Intel 80x86 series. I am not aware of any > other processor family that sports so many "modes" (8086 real mode, 80286 > protected mode, 80386 protected mode, 8086 virtual mode, "Merced" mode?). > Calling some piece of code "32-bit" is merely an abbreviation for the > horribly long-winded "80386 protected mode." It seems reasonable to consider "bitness" when comparing chips from different families, here you point out the fact that within the x86 family that there were and are several sets of ISA and memory addressing models available. But the terms "16-bit" "32-bit" "64-bit" are still useful, as long as you know the difference between "64bit address space", "32bit ALU", and "16bit data bus". Anyway, I was originally responding to Lance's implication that Motorola had somehow tried to pull a fast one on people by calling the 68K a 32-bit processor. I would consider the 386-SX a 32-bit processor, even though it has a 16-bit data bus, since it has 32-bit ALU, register model, and address space. Rob Barris Quicksilver Software Inc. rbarris@quicksilver.com * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
From: sugee@imap2.asu.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Cost of a NeXT Web Site? Date: 15 Jan 1997 22:57:06 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Message-ID: <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu> I doubt that many advocates and customers like Chylser, CyberSlice, Nissan, and etc. as the list goes on, will argue about the merits of using NeXT's Web technologies for deploying their Web sites. We have all heard plenty and are proud of what is being accomplished. However, what I haven't heard anything about, something which curiously dawned on me recently and after reviewing what some of these folks are doing, is the cost of implementing and deploying these Web Sites. Can anybody provide approximate costs or actual figures of sites like these? I do respect people's anonymity. Cheers, Sue
From: gt7357a@acmey.gatech.edu (Tp12a) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 15 Jan 1997 23:49:42 GMT Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bjqem$n3@catapult.gatech.edu> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: : Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers : and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and : only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium : and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted : to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a : processor. I always thought "bit-ness" was a wholly contrived term from marketing-types... It seems to me that the only instance in which "bit-ness" is really significant is on the Intel 80x86 series. I am not aware of any other processor family that sports so many "modes" (8086 real mode, 80286 protected mode, 80386 protected mode, 8086 virtual mode, "Merced" mode?). Calling some piece of code "32-bit" is merely an abbreviation for the horribly long-winded "80386 protected mode." If the ALU word length determined the "bitness" of a processor, then my HP48 pocket calculator is a 64 bit machine, just like a DEC Alpha. If the maximum address space determined "bitness," a Commodore 64 would be a 16-bit machine... With virtual memory, an Intel 80486 would be a 40 bit machine! Go figure... Cheers, Phil : Rob Barris : Quicksilver Software Inc. : rbarris@quicksilver.com : * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer * -- Philip C. Tsao (pronounced 'Philip C. Tsao') Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7357a gt7357a@prism.gatech.edu http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt7357a
From: turnefh@mail.auburn.edu ("Fred H. Turner, III") Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:40:55 -0600 Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. Message-ID: <turnefh-ya02408000R1501971740550001@news.earthlink.net> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1>, eilersm@aruba.ccit.arizona.edu (Michael Eilers) wrote: >The people who really need >and will use a modern OS have already moved on. > >michael Oh, really? I "really need and will use" a modern OS, but, you know, Michael, I just haven't gotten around to having a couple thousand extra bucks in my pocket to replace this rickety old, piece-o'-shit 7100 of mine with. Sure, it hardly runs and is so slow that I'd rather use my old Mac Classic, but I just can't quite afford a gee-whiz PCI-based machine yet. The poor NuBus-based 7100 is a whopping 2 years old now, so I'm amazed that it even boots anymore. I think Apple should listen to you-- why in the hell would they want to support someone who just spent $4000 on their equipment 2 years ago. Oh, I'm sorry-- I forgot that by that time, it will have been 3 years. Heck, I imagine most of us who bought ancient, NuBus machines way back then will be dead and buried by that time.
From: REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Finder vs. File Viewer Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:55:45 -0500 Organization: Univ. Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center Message-ID: <REMOVE.TO.REPLY.drg-ya02408000R1501971955450001@news.uth.tmc.edu> References: <cwood41-ya023080000301971353250001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5ajpb6$87i@news3.digex.net> <cwood41-ya023080000301972129040001@news.caps.maine.edu> <5amjrs$5c2@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <marke-0401971504110001@ip029.mu3.nwlink.com> <5aoou2$18r@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <akac-0601970109270001@slip-104-30.ots.utexas.edu> <5atdp1$gq@tallowcross.uni-frankfurt.de> <jbf-ya023580000801970142540001@news.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <jbf-ya023580000801970142540001@news.tiac.net>, jbf@frazer.com (James B. Frazer) wrote: > PM.app corresponds to PrintMonitor on the > Mac. Available whenever a print job is queued. The Desktop Printer just > gives you a clickable way to access the queue for a specific printer. > Presumably useful if you use many printers at the same time. Also useful if you have several printers, even if you use them only one at a time. -- David Gutierrez drg@biomath.mdacc.tmc.edu "Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard
From: no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 16 Jan 1997 02:37:46 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: : (Tp12a) wrote: : > Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: : > : Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers : > : and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and : > : only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium : > : and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted : > : to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a : > : processor. : > : > I always thought "bit-ness" was a wholly contrived term from : > marketing-types... It seems to me that the only instance in which "bit-ness" : > is really significant is on the Intel 80x86 series. I am not aware of any : > other processor family that sports so many "modes" (8086 real mode, 80286 : > protected mode, 80386 protected mode, 8086 virtual mode, "Merced" mode?). : > Calling some piece of code "32-bit" is merely an abbreviation for the : > horribly long-winded "80386 protected mode." : It seems reasonable to consider "bitness" when comparing chips from : different families, here you point out the fact that within the x86 family : that there were and are several sets of ISA and memory addressing models : available. But the terms "16-bit" "32-bit" "64-bit" are still useful, as : long as you know the difference between "64bit address space", "32bit ALU", : and "16bit data bus". : Anyway, I was originally responding to Lance's implication that Motorola : had somehow tried to pull a fast one on people by calling the 68K a 32-bit : processor. I would consider the 386-SX a 32-bit processor, even though it : has a 16-bit data bus, since it has 32-bit ALU, register model, and address : space. I seem to recall that 68000 processor actually had 16 bit ALU's, there were some "32 bit" adds and subtracts which were acoomplished via 2 passes to the 16 bit ALU, so 32 bit operations actually took twice as long. Was my memory faulty or is this indeed the case? : Rob Barris : Quicksilver Software Inc. : rbarris@quicksilver.com : * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
From: Michael Alfonso Visconti <mv2a+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:34:30 -0500 Organization: Junior, Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <wmrLSKW00WBLI_Bf0q@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <mazulauf-1501970100320001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> In-Reply-To: <mazulauf-1501970100320001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.system: 15-Jan-97 Re: Feedback to Apple about.. by Mike Zulauf@atmos.met.ut > > I'm sure that this wasn't the first instance where Apple said that Copland > would run on NuBus PowerMacs - just the earliest that I've dug up so far. > > Mike > But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died.
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:06:54 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1501972306550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <5bei9m$5et@usenet.rpi.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001501970138580001@news.dal.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <lewisda-ya023580001501970138580001@news.dal.ca>, lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote: >I honestly think that a lot of it has to do with fear mongering and >propaganda. If the media says that Apple is dead enough times, then it will >eventually become a reality... a self-fulfilling prophesy. Likewise, if the >media tells people enough times that Bill Gates, the biggest geek that ever >lived, is a cyber-god who was sent to earth to guide us all into the brave >new electronic frontier, then people will believe that too. The Mac is >still far superior to a Win95 machine but all we hear about in the media is >"Apple is dead" and Apple has made no attempt to refute those claims. It's >called *propeganda* and *fear mongering*. Apple has to come up with an >aggresive hard hitting marketing campaign to get the truth out. I'm sick to >death of this pathetic sacarine coated Hallmark-style "give your dreams a >chance" Performa crap!!!!! Hmmm...Apple just had its debt rating lowered again today...does that say anything about the confidence of the business world in Apple Computer. Jack -- Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: cancel <howarth-ya02408000R1501972324060001@news.ececs.uc.edu> Control: cancel <howarth-ya02408000R1501972324060001@news.ececs.uc.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:24:28 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1501972324280001@news.ececs.uc.edu> cancel <howarth-ya02408000R1501972324060001@news.ececs.uc.edu>
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:25:33 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1501972325330001@news.ececs.uc.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net>, zxeses@zapcom.stop.spam.net (Zxeses) wrote: >The computer industry is a funny place. Think about it this way, Apple >Mac's used to represent 10-15% of the computers, then the PC sales picked >up and new computers were sold to people who didn't have computers before. >Apple keeps 96-98% of their users. The problem comes in that the growth >rate is probably around 4-6% also, so it' s a wash. > >In other words, there are no MORE Apple Sales, but no less either. The >computer industry is growing, therefore apple's "share" of this pie keeps >getting smaller, but not so many less buyers/users. > >Make sense? Good! cause I almost forgot why I was writing this! :) > >So his point, that most Mac users stay with Mac's, is true still. I will >always use a Mac, even if the company goes under, when I can't use my Mac >any more, I will toss it out and never use a computer again.. > Perhaps your conclusion from the observation that repeat buyers rather than new owners make up the overwhelming bulk of Apple's sales should have been as follows. Since the above is true, it is insane for Apple to permanently alienate such a large segment of its user base as Nubus Powermac owners. I warn you that if Nubus Powermac owners leave the platform they will take a large share of 68K owners will go with them. The Nubus Powermac owners were the risk takers during the transition to the PPC and these sort of people tend to be more technically adept. They are the sort others ask for help and advice. What recommendation do you suspect these folks will make when asked by 68K owners about what model of Macintosh to buy? I myself have stopped all recommendations on Apple hardware until they have resolved the issue of Rhapsody support for Nubus Powermacs in a reasonable and honest fashion (no vague promises). Perhaps if their sales and stock price craters for a quarter or two they will come to their senses. Jack -- Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474
From: martin.boucher@cgocable.ca ($$$ EASY MONEY $$$) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.transputer,comp.sys.unisys,comp.sys.xerox,comp.sys.zenith.z100,comp.terminals,comp.terminals.bitgraph Subject: $ Take 5 minutes to read this and it WILL change your life $ Date: 16 Jan 1997 05:33:52 GMT Organization: cgocable Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bkek0$fah@nr1.ottawa.istar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 $$$$$$ $50.000 for the New Year $$$$$$ Take five minutes to read this and it WILL change your life. The internet has grown tremendously. It doubles in size every 4 months, think about it. You see those "Make Money Fast " posts more and more. That's ... because it WORKS! So I thought, all those new users might make it work. And I decided to try it out, a few months ago. Besides, whats $5.00, I spend more than in the morning on my way to work on coffee and cigs for the day. 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Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.transputer,comp.sys.unisys,comp.sys.xerox,comp.sys.zenith.z100,comp.terminals,comp.terminals.bitgraph,control From: news@news.msfc.nasa.gov Message-ID: <cancel.5bkek0$fah@nr1.ottawa.istar.net> Control: cancel <5bkek0$fah@nr1.ottawa.istar.net> Subject: cmsg cancel <5bkek0$fah@nr1.ottawa.istar.net> no reply ignore Organization: Semi-Automatic Chain Letter Remover Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 05:36:48 GMT Sender: martin.boucher@cgocable.ca ($$$ EASY MONEY $$$) ignore Make Money Fast post canceled by news@news.msfc.nasa.gov. Make Money Fast has been posted thousands of times, enough to qualify as cancel-on-sight spam. The chain letter scheme it describes is illegal in many countries. For example, see: http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/inspect/chainlet.htm J. Porter Clark, d/b/a The Unknown News Administrator
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system From: hugob@tamtam.xs4all (Hugo Burm) Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Message-ID: <E4262s.6FL@tamtam.xs4all.nl> Sender: hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl (Hugo Burm) Organization: datagram References: <5bdsh4$jp4@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:35:16 GMT In article <5bdsh4$jp4@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> raph@porter.as.utexas.edu (William Raphael Hix) writes: > Ken Schrock (kens@cannet.com) wrote: > > : Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? > > The number of Mac users is in fact growing. However since this group is > growing at a rate slower than the rate of growth for total computer > users, the market share (the percentage of the total) is declining. > > Raph > Your definition of market share sounds ok, but I have the impression that when journalists are talking about market share, they are talking about the percentage of newly sold copies. The market share journalists are talking about is dropping faster than your definition. (Probably the same journalists that are talking about stabilization of the growth rate of inflation.) hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: hugob@tamtam.xs4all (Hugo Burm) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Message-ID: <E4252I.6Cs@tamtam.xs4all.nl> Sender: hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl (Hugo Burm) Organization: datagram References: <32DB6BC1.689D@ibp.de> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:13:30 GMT In article <32DB6BC1.689D@ibp.de> Lars Immisch <lars@ibp.de> writes: > James Felix Black wrote: > > [snip] > > > > 4. I have a USR 33.6 sportster sitting around ... but the NeXT serial > > situation makes me nervous: can an '040 cube drive a serial port fast > > enough, or should I invest in a cheapo PC and route PPP to ethernet > > (suboptimal)? > > Arggghmmnn. I'm not 100% sure, but according to the man pages you should > be able to drive your modem fast enough. You _will_ need a special cable > (I usually take a Mac cable, and solder a new DB 25 connector to it 'coz > it's a real pain to solder the DIN 9's) > > [sip] I tried this but this did not work because most 'high speed' Mac cables only have 6 out of 8 pins of the Mini Din-8 connector connected. And you do need the two pins not used on the Mac for an 040 NeXT. More details at the "TheSolutions" section of "http://www.radical.com". If you have to solder use the very thin wire-wrap wire. If you want to use the modem at 33.6 line speed , you need a 57.6 baud connection to your modem. This will keep your Cube rather busy. hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl
From: Johannes Geiss <jgeiss@wilma.qint.de> Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace,alt.fan.enya,alt.good.morning,alt.good.news,alt.music.enya,alt.personals,alt.personals.misc,comp.graphics.misc,comp.infosystems.www.misc,comp.os.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.hp.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.windows.misc,misc.wanted,rec.arts.misc,rec.skiing.alpine,rec.skiing.snowboard,sci.misc,soc.culture.canada,soc.misc Subject: Canadian girl in Austria, Kaprun, KITZSTEINHORN Followup-To: alt.fan.enya Date: 16 Jan 1997 15:54:05 +0100 Organization: Qint Software Message-ID: <wziv4x1xiq.fsf@wilma.qint.de> Hello, sorry for bothering this newsgroup but I'm looking for a certain canadian girl I've met in Europe/Austria/Zell am See in the "Crazy Daisy" pub at the night of new year, 3:00 hours. She was on vacation at Kaprun and skiing on the mountain Kitzsteinhorn until January, 06. I have forgotten to ask her about her name and so I try to contact her this way. If you may know her please ask her to contact me via eMail. My address is "jgeiss@qint.de". She is ca. 170(?) cm, tall, short dark hair (nearly black), black eyebrowes, brown eyes, age ca. 27(?) years. She wore a dark grey pullover and black pants. I asked her, "Where do you come from?", and we talked about "overcrowded Europe" and "not getting up too early for skiing". Again, sorry for bothering you in this newsgroup. Thank you Johannes -- ============================================//===================== Johannes R. Geiss // Qint Software http://www-internal.qint.de/~jgeiss \\ // Robert-Koch-Str. 2 ========================================\X/========================
From: christw@lexis-nexis.com (Christopher C. Wood) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 16 Jan 1997 16:26:10 GMT Organization: LEXIS-NEXIS, Dayton OH Message-ID: <5blkr2$sdm@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972305040001@news.quicksilver.com> In article <rbarris-ya023280001501972305040001@news.quicksilver.com>, rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) writes: |> In article <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu>, no_spam@Glue.umd.edu |> (David T. Wang) wrote: |> > Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: |> > : Anyway, I was originally responding to Lance's implication |> > : that Motorola had somehow tried to pull a fast one on people by |> > : calling the 68K a 32-bit processor. I would consider the |> > : 386-SX a 32-bit processor, even though it has a 16-bit data |> > : bus, since it has 32-bit ALU, register model, and address |> > : space. |> > I seem to recall that 68000 processor actually had 16 bit ALU's, |> > there were some "32 bit" adds and subtracts which were |> > acoomplished via 2 passes to the 16 bit ALU, so 32 bit operations |> > actually took twice as long. Was my memory faulty or is this |> > indeed the case? |> The original 68000 did indeed have a 16-bit ALU and the behavior |> of which you speak. This did not change until the 68020 if memory |> serves. On the other hand, this behavior was invisible to the machine code. It's just an implementation detail. Replace the microcode and 16-bit ALU with a 32-bit ALU. Performance goes up on all your software. A lot like increasing the clock speed. Chris -- Speaking only for myself, of course. Chris Wood christw@lexis-nexis.com cats@CFAnet.com
From: Toshinao Ishii <ici@giocoso.ici.net.jp> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: PopOver + procmail ? Date: 16 Jan 1997 04:16:53 +0900 Organization: 3WEB corp. Message-ID: <x6pvz6g34q.fsf@giocoso.ici.net.jp> Hi. Is there any way to pass emails received by using PopOver (or other pop client) to procmail ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-= Toshinao Ishii email: ici@osk.threewebnet.or.jp (NeXTMAIL/MIME Welcome)
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:26:34 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1601970926350001@ctsasync82.cc.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> In article <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net>, zxeses@stop.spams.dead.edu (Zxeses) wrote: > How did we go from "Currently Shipping Mac's" to "Apple is considering > dumping".... I do follow the logic sure, but before we start complaining > about something we know *NOTHING* factual about, lets come to an > understanding that Apple will be reasonable and give major segments of > their user base what they want. For the umpteenth time, Apple is "investigating the work required to support older systems." If you can't see that this means they are considering dumping those older systems then you need to take a reading comprehension course. Here is the relevant blurb: "Apple's goal is for Rhapsody to support all PowerPC-processor based Macintosh hardware sold by Apple and Apple licensees today, and all upcoming products including the PowerPC Platform, also known as CHRP. Apple is investigating the work required to support older systems as well." from "Mac OS and NeXT Technologies FAQ." http://macos.apple.com/macos/releases/rhapsody/faq.rhap.html > Why must they say so soon? Why can't you wait until it actually SHIPS > before you hit them with 'shit'?? > > End of the year people, just tell Apple what you want and then wait it out, > don't KILL apple for something they havent don't yet! Once Apple makes the decision, then we won't be able to influence it at all. Do you understand that? The whole point of all this bitching is to let Apple know that they _must_ decide to support the NuBus PowerMacs! Another reason to act soon is that many people will not want to sink much money into a sytem that may be a dead-ender. I know that I am delaying purchasing anything major for my Mac - I've heard similar sentiments for others. In case you haven't heard, sales of Mac software are dropping - this does nothing to help the platform. See the following URL for more info: (http://www.macweek.com/top_stories/nw_soft_sales.html > A loyal mac addict, Apple lover, and all around resonable guy, who would > rather eat razors and lead paint then use Winsuck-Anything. If Apple stops > MAKING computers, I will stop USING computers. Well good for you. Most of us are a little more balanced than that. For me, to quit using computers would mean having to enter a completely new line of work, and throwing a way many years of education. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: John Palkovic <palkovic@fnal.gov> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 16 Jan 1997 11:24:21 -0600 Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL Sender: palkovic@petcon2.fnal.gov Message-ID: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> <turnefh-ya02408000R1501971740550001@news.earthlink.net> turnefh@mail.auburn.edu ("Fred H. Turner, III") writes: > Oh, really? I "really need and will use" a modern OS, but, you know, > Michael, I just haven't gotten around to having a couple thousand extra > bucks in my pocket to replace this rickety old, piece-o'-shit 7100 of mine > with. Sure, it hardly runs and is so slow that I'd rather use my old Mac > Classic, ... Fred, thanks for your cogent and relevant commentary. I have a Performa 6116 at home, should I throw it in the dumpster tonight and then kill myself? It may not run Rhapsody, and life just has no meaning for me anymore. Why, oh why did I buy a Nubus Powermac? * Sincerely, -John -- palkovic@fnal.gov http://users.net66.com/~jp home: palkovic@usa.net MIME and pgp welcome. * Insert :-) if you are humor-impaired.
From: no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 16 Jan 1997 17:36:09 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5blou9$ia8@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Christopher C. Wood (christw@lexis-nexis.com) wrote: : On the other hand, this behavior was invisible to the machine code. : It's just an implementation detail. Replace the microcode and 16-bit : ALU with a 32-bit ALU. Performance goes up on all your software. A : lot like increasing the clock speed. Ofcourse, but this was one of the criteria which Mr Barris was using to determine the "bitness" of a processor, and I was simply pointing out that 68000 processors had 16 bit data paths, and 16 bit ALUs, Even though it had 32 bit registers, convention was that it was referred to as a 16 bit processor. : Chris : -- : Speaking only for myself, of course. : Chris Wood christw@lexis-nexis.com cats@CFAnet.com
From: embuck@palmer.cca.rockwell.com (Erik M. Buck) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: killer apps for Apple/NeXT Date: 16 Jan 1997 01:31:25 GMT Organization: Rockwell Avionics - Collins Message-ID: <5bk0dd$jnq@castor.cca.rockwell.com> References: <32DD473F.334E@worldnet.att.net> Cc: ziziz@worldnet.att.net In <32DD473F.334E@worldnet.att.net> zizi zhao wrote: > Dean Hall is looking for killer apps for Apple/NeXT OS. He says: > "So far > most of the stories have been about > Apple , I would really like to know > about how the deal affects NeXT > developers. Does anyone have a > killer app in the works? What about > game developers? " > in his webpage http://members.tripod.com/~dehall/nextstep.html One of the companies I contract for may just have the "killer app". Imagine building first class OpenStep objects (especially highly graphical animating ones) with no code at all. This thing could put Visual Basic out of the picture and or be a great way to build Visual Basic component ware. My company is in fact working on a high end game using all of the latest greatest NeXT technology. Sorry I can not give details. P.S. Renderman was already available for Mac
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:02:47 -0400 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001601971602470001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971932260001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5bkq8s$rm5@duke.squonk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5bkq8s$rm5@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: )Along the same lines, let's revisit that 4% figure. Personally )I have trouble believing the success rate of QDGX among Mac users )is even that high, but let's go with it. GX is not in the standard install package. The only thing that suggests to users to install GX is a little flash screen that pops ups at the end of the install process. This is usually ignored. )That means 96% of Apple's current users have rejected QDGX, even )though it's already on the CD, By that same token millions of users have rejected QD 3D, OpenDOC, and any other Apple technology that isn't automatically installed. )ready for them to install. Nothing )to port, nothing to buy. Just a few clicks of the mouse, and it )would be installed. Actually when upgrading few people ever go beyond what the easy install does or what was pre-installed at the factory. )And yet they do not install it. How important can a technology be )if 96% of your *current* users will not even bother to *install* )it? (never mind how many people actually *use* it) How important are QD 3D and OpenDOC? The number of copies of GX in use are certainly on par with those two technologies. )Eh? ) )What does this refer to? Docs for NeXTSTEP? The NeXTSTEP which )already runs on 68040 processors? Nope docs about their own hardware. It's very telling that Apple couldn't get Nukernel to run on 68k machines with PPC upgrades. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can beat shity Petium Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 16 Jan 1997 19:18:51 GMT Organization: UNINETT news service Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bluur$ump$3@doffen.uninett.no> Nervous writes: : In article <edodge-0701972222360001@ip-pdx19-23.teleport.com>, : edodge@teleport.com (Edward Dodge) wrote: : In article <32D20D7C.C75@rogerswave.ca>, jmiller@rogerswave.ca wrote: : : > Lasse Olsen wrote: : > > : They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. : > > Where can I buy one? : > > Cheers... : > The 533Mhz isn't out yet but you can buy a 225Mhz TODAY. : : : Can buy a 250Mhz today as well, I think. I wonder where the 250Mhz PPro is? : You can get a 300Mhz 603e as well. Even multiprocessor 604e-based computers. So, again, where can I buy it at 533Mhz? Cheers...
From: crobato@kuentos.guam.net Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: 17 Jan 1997 01:28:28 GMT Organization: Kuentos Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bmkjs$oq@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <32d7fc3d.82279872@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5ba00l$321@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32da8f2b.251026236@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5bfjit$8km@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <32dc9fc0.529753@news.onramp.net> <32DC5F69.126@rust.net> <32dce58b.422340@news.onramp.net> In <32dce58b.422340@news.onramp.net>, dcorn@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) writes: >On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:39:05 -0500, bryan white <bwhite3@rust.net> >wrote: > >>> Compaq has had Klamath 266s for quite a while now. >> >>Have they sold any of these yet? > >No. > >>> deal from there, although I do want to see the 100 mhz busses - _that_ >>> will be an improvement. >> >>There seems to be at least one pentium MB running up to 83 MHZ (ASUS >>something or other). What is the PPro MB running at? > >66 mhz, isn't it? Yes, Asus runs at 83 mhz, although that isn't a >standard, supported spec from Intel. 100 mhz will be. Also a 33 mhz >ISA bus will be standardized, although I can't get excited about that. > No PC dealer right now in their right mind should recommend boosted motherboard speeds to 75MHz or 83MHz without fully supporting the consequences of their recommendations if they sold such systems to consumers. Rgds, Chris Famous People on the Day Windows 95 is Launched--- Neil Armstrong---"One Small Fortune for Bill Gates, One Giant Leap backward for Mankind." President Roosevelt---"This date shall live in infamy." *** crobato@kuentos.guam.net *** TKS for the Contributions.
From: no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 17 Jan 1997 01:01:43 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bmj1n$lne@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Darin Johnson (darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com) wrote: : >Ofcourse, but this was one of the criteria which Mr Barris was using to : >determine the "bitness" of a processor, and I was simply pointing out that : >68000 processors had 16 bit data paths, and 16 bit ALUs, Even though it : >had 32 bit registers, convention was that it was referred to as a 16 bit : >processor. : As for myself (eveyrone has a different take on it, as there is no ISO : standard for computer terminology), the assembler language was 32-bit, : so I called the chip a 32-bit cpu. Ie, to the assembler programmer, : the 68000 and 68020 are essentially the same (minus a few instructions : and trap handling). It makes it hard when the programmer's model is different than the architecture. Do you call the processor by what it presents to you, or do you call it by what it is doing underneath? Reminds me of the PPro CISC/RISC debate. : Of course, this breaks down with the x86 series, since the chips run : multiple modes. But these chips are very unique as well (what other : cpu had 3 or more modes that it dealt with?). If restricting yourself : to "primary" modes, the one most used, or intended to be most used, : then you can still classify them this way (despite the fact that many : people still used real-modes in 386 and higher chips). : -- : Darin Johnson : darin@connectnet.com
From: Graeme Bentley <Graeme.Bentley@Fujitsu.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:03:35 -0800 Organization: Fujitsu Australia, Systems Development Software Group Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32DFCD07.3AAE@Fujitsu.com.au> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972306580001@news.quicksilver.com> <doenges.853411327@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Doenges wrote: <...snip...> > In fact, some early (~70s) computer had a > 12 bit CPU (can't remeber what it was and who made it) that worked bit > seriell internally, but nobody would call it a one bit computer. There's a 'blast from the past'. It was the DEC PDP-8/S (serial==slow). It had a horrible addressing scheme. One could address relative +/-128words, or absolute to either 'page 0' or current page (of instruction), or indirect through a page 0/current pointer. Then in addition one could switch 'fields' (banks). The system I worked on started off with a (paper) tape system monitor then we upgarded with a 32K word (direct addressable) disk. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Graeme T. Bentley (Graeme.Bentley@fujitsu.com.au) "Vive et Vivus" Fujitsu Australia Ltd, Melbourne. (standard disclaimers apply) ----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dcorn@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:30:28 GMT Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32e6d5e1.87728943@news.onramp.net> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <32d7fc3d.82279872@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5ba00l$321@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32da8f2b.251026236@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5bfjit$8km@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <32dc9fc0.529753@news.onramp.net> <32DC5F69.126@rust.net> <32dce58b.422340@news.onramp.net> <5bmkjs$oq@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 17 Jan 1997 01:28:28 GMT, crobato@kuentos.guam.net wrote: >>66 mhz, isn't it? Yes, Asus runs at 83 mhz, although that isn't a >>standard, supported spec from Intel. 100 mhz will be. Also a 33 mhz >>ISA bus will be standardized, although I can't get excited about that. > >No PC dealer right now in their right mind should recommend boosted >motherboard speeds to 75MHz or 83MHz without fully supporting the >consequences of their recommendations if they sold such systems to >consumers. Check on comp.sys.ibm.pc.motherboards or somesuch and you'll see that there's an incredibly high success rate with dozens of different motherboards. 75 mhz gotten to be pretty old hat by now, and Asus 83 mhz boost is the newest rage. ________________________________________________ Reachable at: 713 629 6947 nights Please quote in all replies
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:30:41 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1601971830410001@news.ececs.uc.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> <turnefh-ya02408000R1501971740550001@news.earthlink.net> <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov>, John Palkovic <palkovic@fnal.gov> wrote: > >Fred, thanks for your cogent and relevant commentary. I have a >Performa 6116 at home, should I throw it in the dumpster tonight and >then kill myself? It may not run Rhapsody, and life just has no >meaning for me anymore. Why, oh why did I buy a Nubus Powermac? * > > Perhaps it doesn't really matter to you that your Mac will never be able to run a totally native modern os with pre-emptive multitasking and protected memory. Perhaps you don't really mind having to reboot a machine daily or even hourly compared to having it run without going down for months at a time. The problem is that many others do and quite a few of them were the trail-blazers who bought into the original Powermacs back when there was virtually no native software at all. They stayed with Apple because of the promise of the PPC and Copland/Gershwin eventually running on their machines. The problem Apple has is these sort of people are often in charge of running computer centers or the guru that others seek out for advice. By alienating these people, Apple can not begin to buy enough advertising to undo all the negative PR they will bring on themselves. The issue is simple as it is clear. Apple presented us with two promised system upgrades (Copland and Gershwin) while leaving the impression that at least the latest machine at the time (Nubus Powermacs) would be able to run them. If Apple's position is that because it never explicitly promised any particular machine it made would run Copland and/or Gershwin than they should have added a huge caveat to their press releases stating '"these operating systems shall eventually run on some system we eventually produce provided we ever eventually release the os". At the moment one can only go by the reality of the situation. We have Rhapsody, a vapor OS, which unlikely ever run on 50% of the user base (68K machines) and could very well not run on another 30% (Nubus Powermacs). On the other hand, we have NT which can run on a fast 486 and up which includes the bulk of PCs currently in use. Is it any wonder that Mac promoters are often treated these days as harmless morons? Someone needs to turn the reality distortion generator off around here and point out that the emperor has no clothes. Jack -- Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474
From: darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com (Darin Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 16 Jan 1997 18:52:24 GMT Message-ID: <slrn5dsu77.9nu.darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com> References: <5blou9$ia8@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> >Ofcourse, but this was one of the criteria which Mr Barris was using to >determine the "bitness" of a processor, and I was simply pointing out that >68000 processors had 16 bit data paths, and 16 bit ALUs, Even though it >had 32 bit registers, convention was that it was referred to as a 16 bit >processor. As for myself (eveyrone has a different take on it, as there is no ISO standard for computer terminology), the assembler language was 32-bit, so I called the chip a 32-bit cpu. Ie, to the assembler programmer, the 68000 and 68020 are essentially the same (minus a few instructions and trap handling). Of course, this breaks down with the x86 series, since the chips run multiple modes. But these chips are very unique as well (what other cpu had 3 or more modes that it dealt with?). If restricting yourself to "primary" modes, the one most used, or intended to be most used, then you can still classify them this way (despite the fact that many people still used real-modes in 386 and higher chips). -- Darin Johnson darin@connectnet.com
From: sinclap2954@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can beat shity Petium Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 16 Jan 97 19:16:28 -0600 Organization: University of Northern Iowa Distribution: inet Message-ID: <1997Jan16.191628.1@cobra.uni.edu> References: <5bluur$ump$3@doffen.uninett.no> In article <5bluur$ump$3@doffen.uninett.no>, lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) writes: > So, again, where can I buy it at 533Mhz? > Cheers... Spring time.. From Power, Apple, Motorola and Umax.. GREETINGS.. |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Peter Sinclair-Day POWERMAC OF COURSE.... | | University of Northern Iowa | I I I Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing I I to the "EvangeList" listserver! Send email to:<evangelist@macway.com> or I I go to: <http://www.solutions.apple.com/ListAdmin/>. I |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| "Rush Limbaugh is for people who aren't mature enough for Barney..." ....David E. Romm - Shockwave
From: "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 16 Jan 97 17:54:07 -0800 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58> References: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.concentric.net/comp.sys.mac.system >I have a Performa 6116 at home, should I throw it in the dumpster tonight and >then kill myself? It may not run Rhapsody, and life just has no >meaning for me anymore. Why, oh why did I buy a Nubus Powermac? * > >John > Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus PowerMacs. Perhaps you found a lesser need for a platform to run graphics-intensive applications as opposed to games, home use... You are right about trying to determine where the cut-off is for Rhapsody. Now lets get Apple to do the same. - Paul Prior to sending email, remove '.REMOVEthisToRespond' in the From field.
From: Gregory Pacholczyk <gpacho1@gl.umbc.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Hard drive swap Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:23:09 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Message-ID: <32DF1ACD.50F8@gl.umbc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-User: gpacho1 I have an 040 Cube with a really loud 660 mb hard drive, i also have a 1 gig scsi drive that i want to put in its place. how can i format the 1 gig drive and move everything over to it. thanks- -Greg
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: holmes@gorilla.nbn.com (Tim Holmes) Subject: iBCS or dosemu for NeXT? Message-ID: <E44oqt.JD4@gorilla.nbn.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:13:41 GMT Do things such as iBCS or dos emulators exist for NeXT? On Intel, that is. Tim Holmes holmes@gorilla.nbn.com
From: jhsterne@mindspring.com.nospam (Jason S.) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:09:46 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Distribution: inet Message-ID: <jhsterne-ya02408000R1701970009460001@news.mindspring.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972306580001@news.quicksilver.com> <doenges.853411327@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> <32DFCD07.3AAE@Fujitsu.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32DFCD07.3AAE@Fujitsu.com.au>, Graeme.Bentley@Fujitsu.com.au wrote: > Eric Doenges wrote: > <...snip...> > > In fact, some early (~70s) computer had a > > 12 bit CPU (can't remeber what it was and who made it) that worked bit > > seriell internally, but nobody would call it a one bit computer. > > There's a 'blast from the past'. It was the DEC PDP-8/S (serial==slow). > It had a horrible addressing scheme. One could address relative > +/-128words, or absolute to either 'page 0' or current page (of > instruction), or indirect through a page 0/current pointer. > Then in addition one could switch 'fields' (banks). > The system I worked on started off with a (paper) tape system monitor > then we upgarded with a 32K word (direct addressable) disk. > -- What did you expect from a very inexpensive computer that was introduced in 1965? J.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: OpenStep - OS or environment? Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E44s5z.M8A@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:27:35 GMT References: <853364334.28236@dejanews.com> Organization: University of Waterloo I can't believe I'm jumping into this, but... In article <853364334.28236@dejanews.com>, <poundmacvits@hotmail.com> wrote: >The media has been making a number of confusing and contradictory claims >about what OpenStep is and I hope someone can settle a few things for me. OPENSTEP is a set of object kits that let you write applicaitons. There's the Application Kit (which has classes like NSWindow, NSButton, etc.), the Foundation Kit (NSString, NSDictionary, etc.) and some others that I've likely forgotten. It can be ported to any operating system that provides the necessary functionality, and thus we have OPENSTEP/Mach (the re-named NeXTSTEP, which is OPENSTEP on top of a Mach-based Unix system), OPENSTEP/NT, OPENSTEP/Solaris, and so on. >I also thought that >OpenStep Enterprise was an application development environment that let >developers create applications that would run on different operating >system systems, such as Solaris or WindowsNT, providing that they had the >OpenStep APIs. > OS/Enterprise is a package name for the NT version, yes. I think it includes the Enterprise Objects Framework as well (which allows you object-oriented access to relational databases and stuff like that). >However now I read reports (mostly from macuser) that suggest that >OpenStep is simply a layer that can be placed on different operating >systems, such as a WindowsNT system (kernal). They're right. >If this is true then its >not necessary to 'port' OpenStep to other CPU's, such as a pentium, >because it'll already run on the OS, eg, solaris. > Well, you have to "port" OPENSTEP to the host operating system. For example, NSWindow will have to encapsulate some kind of useful window object at the OS level. Right now that's provided by a DPS interpreter. Similarily, I believe there's an NSThread class which has to be implemented to wrap around Mach threads, Solaris threads, NT threads, or whatever. -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:17:25 -0700 Organization: Arizona State University Message-ID: <jak-ya023680001601972317260001@news.asu.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net>, zxeses@stop.spams.dead.edu (Zxeses) wrote: >End of the year people, just tell Apple what you want and then wait it out, >don't KILL apple for something they havent don't yet! No shit! Although some say we have to jump on Apple's back now, to make sure they _do_ support NuBus PPCs, I think it's been taken too far, jumping to conclusions much like the article in the Chicago Tribune. And now there's danger of a vicious circle; people don't want to buy Macs because they think the company's going under, then the company does worse. People then say, "See, I told you." Most people are idiots. Yes, we need to give Apple constructive criticism, but we shouldn't kill it. Then we all lose. Also, we should keep in mind that NuBus PPCs will at least be supported for years to come with Sys7 upgrades. Besides, you should buy a computer for what it can do now, not what you hope it will do years down the road. Nothing is for certain in this industry, and this way you won't be disappointed. >A loyal mac addict, Apple lover, and all around resonable guy, who would >rather eat razors and lead paint then use Winsuck-Anything. If Apple stops >MAKING computers, I will stop USING computers. Amen. john In the year 2000... "David Copperfield will finally reveal how he does his tricks...He's Jesus!" - Andy Richter
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:17:31 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1701970117310001@happy.met.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> <jak-ya023680001601972317260001@news.asu.edu> In article <jak-ya023680001601972317260001@news.asu.edu>, jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) wrote: > Besides, you should buy a computer for > what it can do now, not what you hope it will do years down the road. > Nothing is for certain in this industry, and this way you won't be > disappointed. If people hadn't been looking to the future, Apple would have had a much harder time making the transition to the PPC. Perhaps the early adoptees of the PowerMac (myself included) were a little too trusting of Apple. You can be assured that if Apple doesn't support our machines, we won't make that mistake again. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: "Ala'a H. Jawad" <aljawad@kuwait.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:57:17 +0400 Organization: Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite Message-ID: <32DF30D9.4191@kuwait.net> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zxeses wrote: > A loyal mac addict, Apple lover, and all around resonable guy, who would > rather eat razors and lead paint then use Winsuck-Anything. If Apple stops > MAKING computers, I will stop USING computers. I fully share with your sentiments about Apple, I've been loyal to Apple since 1979. I've also used NeXTstep for a while, and I think _THE_ killer OS is finally gonna be introduced from the talents of these two companies. But back to the point at hand: I find it hard to believe that Apple still supports (OS wise) the Mac Plus some 11 years after its introduction, but will not support computers that the company shipped 3 years ago that utilize the same family of processors, but a different bus??? Lets say thats exactly what they are going to do: the original poster had a valid point, since in 1994 Apple was pitching its next wonderfull system -- then it was promised for 1995, but thats another story -- to those same customers who believed in the transition to the new PPC paradigm, and remember in those days many were warning about backward compatibility with 68k software - its only a memory now. I have in mind those who made a big investment in 1st generation PPC Macs, publishing companies -- Apples most venerable customers -- who usually upgrade their systems every 5 years or so, suddenly realizing they have to upgrade one year ahead of schedule in order to enjoy the transition to the new OS? I hope Apple does the wise thing and stick to its original promise of support for all true PPC units. -A l a ' a
From: jd-wong@uiuc.edu (Jim Wong) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:29:50 -0600 Organization: University of Illinois Message-ID: <jd-wong-1701970129510001@shrike.cs.uiuc.edu> References: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58> In article <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58>, "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> wrote: > >I have a Performa 6116 at home, should I throw it in the dumpster tonight > and > >then kill myself? It may not run Rhapsody, and life just has no > >meaning for me anymore. Why, oh why did I buy a Nubus Powermac? * > > > >John > > > Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus > PowerMacs. This doesn't make any sense. -- Jim Wong (jd-wong@uiuc.edu)
From: lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:24:22 -0400 Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Message-ID: <lewisda-ya023580001701970024220001@news.dal.ca> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> <turnefh-ya02408000R1501971740550001@news.earthlink.net> <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> <howarth-ya02408000R1601971830410001@news.ececs.uc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) wrote: >Perhaps you don't really > mind having to reboot a machine daily or even hourly compared to having it run without > going down for months at a time. Well, the crashing is completely unacceptable as is the non-native OS. However, even if my Mac crashed once an hour (which is an *extreme* exaggeration) I would still be *far* more productive that I would be using any Mircosoft OS. I'm more than willing to continue using System 7 for this reason even if I cannot run Rhapsody right away. It's not perfect by any means, but it's **many** times better and more productive than the alternative in my opinion and for the work that I do. Rhapsody is still a year and a half away, so I figure that I will be close to wanting a new machine by then even if Rhapsody *does* run no my current machine. -- ________________ David Lewis lewisda@tuns.ca www.tuns.ca/~lewisda
From: severine@itis.com (S. Roberts) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Online NextStep Guide Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:22:51 -0600 Organization: Intranet Message-ID: <severine-1701970922510001@c6.itis.com> Hi, all. I've just become the proud new owner of a Turbo Color Slab, and I'm looking for _online_ users' guides/introductions/overviews that can help get me started. I'm not adverse to going and picking up a book, although the cheapest they seem to come is $30 and I'd like to get some docs that I can print out right away and use today. If you have any suggestions, please give me an email and/or post here. Thanks! -- severine@itis.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin From: mark@cyantic.com (Mark T. Dornfeld) Subject: MS NT printing to NextStep lpr Organization: CYANTIC Systems Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:05:57 GMT Message-ID: <1997Jan17.150557.1293@cyantic.com> We have MS NT/OpenStep Clients and are not able to print reliably to a NeXT print server with NeXT Laser Printer. We can only print one page at a time usually and sometimes the jobs don't print at all. Most of the print jobs are coming from MS-Office. Has anyone gotten this to work? Please reply by email if possible. -- -- Mark T. Dornfeld, Cyantic Systems Corporation Voice: (416) 621-6166 1 Eva Road Suite 301 Facsimile: (416) 621-6212 Etobicoke, Ontario, M9C 4Z5 CANADA Email: mark@cyantic.com
From: mmunz@inconnect.com (Mark Munz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 17 Jan 1997 15:49:56 GMT Organization: Puppy Dog Software Message-ID: <mmunz-1701970849200001@slc-dial-10.inconnect.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001972018070001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32D6F5D9.4497@ozemail.com.au> <rex-ya023080001101970013240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1301971300050001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971942180001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080001301971942180001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > Unfortunately if Apple's current plan goes through, Rhapsody's going to >represent a fairly small portion of the Mac market. > Actually, the PowerMac market has been growing at a pretty hefty pace - and I think it will be even larger once the CHRP (PPCP) & LERP clones come about (allowing for lower priced PowerMacs). You can't just look at the past and present - you have to try and gaze into the future as well. That's what Apple is doing. PPC's (Apple & clones) account for more than 25% of the Macs out there today. My guess is that by 1998, it could be closer to 50%. >) I think they should instead do a 68040 port. While I do think that would be nice - I doubt that it would be part of anything done in the first round, even if it were considered. Rhapsody for 68k would essentially replace MacOS 7 (and perhaps that's part of Apple's multi-year plan). Maybe Apple gets rid of MacOS 7 in 1999 by providing Rhapsody.. then again, in 1999 would it be worth it. >sure Rhapsody apps might only take a tenth of >the time to develop, but if there's only a twentieth or thirtieth of the >market running it, it's not exactly a worthwhile venture. That's almost exactly the thinking people had about PPC-native applications. Now look at how many applications are PPC-native and how many PPC Macs there are. It's important for Apple to encourage developers to have Rhapsody applications so that 68k Mac people will be inclined to buy new Rhapsody-capable machines (PPC's). I know if someone told me I could run XYZ software at 5-10 times the speed for $2000, I'd definitely be interested. That's already possible with PPC-native applications on today's PowerMacs (over the 68k machines) - but even today's system isn't hitting its true potential. Apple and its customers need to look into the future, not the past. Just my two cents.. Mark Munz
From: sugee@imap2.asu.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Cost of a NeXT Web Site? Date: 17 Jan 1997 16:29:41 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Message-ID: <5bo9dl$4dn@news.asu.edu> References: <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu> <5bo2s9$d3q@client3.news.psi.net> Hello Tim, Thank you for your reply. Please forgive me if my post was not clear enough. But, what I am very curious to find out, although I recognize that this is something which people may not be so willing to provide, is learning what NeXT and other developers are charging for these web sites and how much time they are taking to develop and what are exact or rough hourly charges. In other words, I would appreciate learning more about what the exact or estimated breakdown and total cost to the customer for something like this? Come to think of it, and something that another poster, a Scott A., was kind enough to offer, learning about what the development time of these sites would be great too along with this other information? This way, it can be compared to how much time and effort it would take using other tools on the market to try and accomplish the same or close to the same thing. I hope that this clarifies what I am asking. Cheer for the New Year! Sue Tim Triemstra (TimT@asiatlanta.com) wrote: : In article <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu>, sugee@imap2.asu.edu wrote: : > : >I doubt that many advocates and customers like Chylser, CyberSlice, : >Nissan, and etc. as the list goes on, will argue about the merits of : >using NeXT's Web technologies for deploying their Web sites. We have all : >heard plenty and are proud of what is being accomplished. : > : >However, what I haven't heard anything about, something which curiously : >dawned on me recently and after reviewing what some of these folks are : >doing, is the cost of implementing and deploying these Web Sites. Can : >anybody provide approximate costs or actual figures of sites like these? : >I do respect people's anonymity. : Sue, I think you would have to be looking at a developers' license (enterprise : as they are calling it now) for $5000 and the WebObjects product which will : run you around $25,000 from my memories :) I am not sure exactly what this : gets you because there are issues of linking to databases etc that could : require extra costs but I think that $30,000 will pretty much cover your : up-front costs. : Tim Triemstra ....... TimT@ASIAtlanta.com : Alpha Star International, Atlanta GA USA
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: cmsg cancel <5bodp4$kft@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> Control: cancel <5bodp4$kft@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> Date: 17 Jan 1997 18:03:44 GMT Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <5boeu0$kft@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> cancel
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 9 Jan 1997 15:58:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFAC944-59E39@198.68.42.195> References: <maury-0901971616470001@199.166.204.230> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That's not the issue, the idea of using a specific API that the >_developer_ must use in order to get MP features is a bad bad thing. The >fact that time from one of the CPU's is used to control this is even >worse, considering it's the "master" CPU and is subject to 100% outages >from I/O and other tasks (heck, hold down the mouse on a menu and then >tell me how good the API is). Movie-player continues to play at least MIDI movies without pause when I hold down the mouse on a menu. I don't know how it works with video since I lost my internal drive a few days ago with all my regular neat stuff on it. --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:52:47 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1701970952480001@dopey.met.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> In article <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net>, zxeses@zapcom.stop.spam.net (Zxeses) wrote: > So his point, that most Mac users stay with Mac's, is true still. I will > always use a Mac, even if the company goes under, when I can't use my Mac > any more, I will toss it out and never use a computer again.. God, what a moron. I hope your work doesn't rely on computers - I'd hate to have to support you through welfare. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Cost of a NeXT Web Site? Date: 17 Jan 1997 17:37:19 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5bodcf$kft@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> References: <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu> <5bo2s9$d3q@client3.news.psi.net> <5bo9dl$4dn@news.asu.edu> sugee@imap2.asu.edu wrote: > Thank you for your reply. Please forgive me if my post was not > clear enough. But, what I am very curious to find out, although I > recognize that this is something which people may not be so willing > to provide, is learning what NeXT and other developers are charging for > these web sites and how much time they are taking to develop and what > are exact or rough hourly charges. In other words, I would appreciate > learning more about what the exact or estimated breakdown and total cost to > the customer for something like this? Besides offering the Web technology (WebObjects), NeXT has offered Web consultants as well who can do as much as a customer prefers with the construction of a Web site (mentoring of customer's programmers all the way to providing a turn-key Web site). I don't know how the Apple acquisition has (will) affect this, but a call to NeXT would probably yield some useful information. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 17 Jan 1997 17:55:39 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5boeer$kft@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001972018070001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32D6F5D9.4497@ozemail.com.au> <rex-ya023080001101970013240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1301971300050001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971942180001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <mmunz-1701970849200001@slc-dial-10.inconnect.com> mmunz@inconnect.com (Mark Munz) wrote: > >) I think they should instead do a 68040 port. > > While I do think that would be nice - I doubt that it would be part of > anything done in the first round, even if it were considered. Rhapsody for > 68k would essentially replace MacOS 7 (and perhaps that's part of Apple's > multi-year plan). Maybe Apple gets rid of MacOS 7 in 1999 by providing > Rhapsody.. then again, in 1999 would it be worth it. I don't know how many m68k Mac users would be happy running Rhapsody on their hardware. Running OPENSTEP/Mach on NeXT's 25 Mhz. workstation architecture (i.e., high-bandwidth, lots of DMA channels, etc.) is not a snappy experience :-) After Rhapsody is enhanced with Apple technology, the experience would be even less snappy. Mac users need to understand that Rhapsody will be a big, resource-hungry operating system just like other operating systems of similar capabilities. So the ideal of an m68k version of Rhapsody may be more appealing to consider than to actually use. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: Eirik Mangseth <emangset@online.no> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:50:30 +0100 Organization: United Consultants A/S Message-ID: <32D58446.2FD4@online.no> References: <5ap7mm$55b@doffen.uninett.no> <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se> <5aprft$af9@lehi.kuentos.guam.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit crobato@kuentos.guam.net wrote: > > In <5aplpa$bar@epimetheus.algonet.se>, froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) writes: > >lolsen@hsr.no (Lasse Olsen) wrote: > > > >>Robert Iacullo writes: > >>: jmiller wrote: > >>: > > >>: > If PowerPC chips are so shitty, then how come: > >>: > They are availiable at a faster Mhtz rating? (225Mhtz versus 200Mhtz) > >>: > They have been shown to be more efficient at equal Mhtz? > > > >>: They are also available in a 533Mhz clone. > > > >> Where can I buy one? > >> Cheers.. > > > >Rick Bergman, VP/Marketing for Exponential Technolog says: > >"We expect to go from 533 megahertz up to as much as a thousand > >megahertz or a gigahertz." > >(http://www.newmedianews.com/110996/lo_exponential.html) > > > >By the way, how fast (sorry, how many mhz) is the fastest > >mainframe/any cpu? > > > > Way lower than this. I think about 300MHz. > > It does not matter. Mainframes are not about MHz, just as super computers are > not as well. They are about fail safe reliability. They are about > multitentacled, multprocessor monsters with lotsa processors running in > parallel, talking to each other through buses that zip gigabytes per sec. > > Rgds, > > Chris > > Famous People on the Day Windows 95 is Launched--- > Neil Armstrong---"One Small Fortune for Bill Gates, > One Giant Leap backward for Mankind." > President Roosevelt---"This date shall live in infamy." > *** crobato@kuentos.guam.net *** TKS for the Contributions. Not only that, they've got an I/O subsystem that runs in circles around any so-called server based on e.g. x86. Eirik
From: glenn@nowsoft.com (Tod L. Glenn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Installing NeXTstep 3.3 Intel Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:32:15 -0800 Organization: Europa Communications Inc. [Portland, OR] Message-ID: <glenn-ya02408000R1701971032150001@news.europa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, I recently aquired a copy of NeXTOS 3.3 for NeXT and Intel machines. The set includes a boot disk and CD. The boot disk appears to be for NeXT hardware only, and the CD does not seem to be in any common format (like ISO 9660) that allows it to be mounted on a PC. Is there some trick I'm missing to install, or do I need an Intel boot disk. And if so, where can I get one. -Thanks ---- Tod L. Glenn Internet Services Administrator Now Software ITG webmaster@nowsoft.com ---- http://www.nowsoft.com ftp://ftp.nowsoft.com listserv@nowsoft.com
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:04:26 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1701971104260001@dopey.met.utah.edu> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> In article <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl>, tom@icgned.nl (Tom Hageman) wrote: > "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.net> wrote: > >We Nubus PowerMac Apple loyalists from the 128 days shall not be neglected, > >ignored or passed over by Apple today. We are forming a class action that > >you too can recoup your losses from Apple's breaches of contract. > > That's the true American spirit! (litigate! litigate! litigate!) Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! Sue, sue, sue!!! Gimme, gimme, gimme!!! NOW! whoo, sorry about that, you got me going there. . . > Seriously, isn't this a bit premature? Apple said that Rhapsody would > support all current hardware. Apple said it would support currently _shipping_ hardware. My 7100 is currently hardware, though it's not shipping. The idea behind all the noise is to get Apple to decide for NuBus support, before they decide against it. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:18:04 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) wrote: >> This is oh so true. I've got two 68K MOT instruction set manuals. One >> calls the processor a 16 bit unit, the other proudly announces it as >> an advanced 32 bit processor (SAME processor part number). One manual >> was before Apple literature described the 68K as a 32 bit processor, >> the other after - connection? This reminds me of the transistor count >> game that was played with transistor radios. I once disassembled a >> 14-transistor Radio Shack radio. 2 of the transistors were wired and >> used as diodes, 4 had ALL THREE leads soldered together and tacked >> here and there on the PCB. So, what I really had was an 8 transistor >> radio and 2 of those had little if any effect on performance. It's ALL >> in the marketing.... > > Bogus. Hey, I didn't write the manuals. If you think it's bogus, talk to MOT! The fact is, the timing of the manuals was just as I described. Looks like a clear attempt at impressing newbies. Unfortunately, for MOT, newbies and end users rarely order instruction set manuals. However, the point wasn't entirely lost as Apple had good time with it. > Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers >and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and >only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium >and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted >to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a >processor. > Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. > You attribute malice or deception to simple confusion in literature and >terminology. The fact remains that flat 32-bit code could be and was >written on the 68000 from the very beginning, lots of it, this was and is a >benefit to its users. > This is an example what maketing does best. There was no confusion in the literature. MOT knew exactly what they were doing. I don't think malice or deception fits here. The programmers know what's going on and that's what counts. I'm surprised someone didn't add up all register bits and go with that figure. > If you don't believe me, why not pop over to comp.arch and ask some >folks around there whether they think the 68K family qualifies as a 32-bit >processor design, or if Moto tried to deceive anyone by promoting it as >such. > I don't give a hoot what comp.arch thinks about the 68K. I was pointing out what MOT, the manufacturer, said about.
From: indy@beckman.uiuc.edu (Steve Weintz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: 18 Jan 1997 00:42:45 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Distribution: world Message-ID: <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> ChristianSchildwaechter wrote: : In Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) comp.sys.next.misc <ArticleDisplayer: 0x1644c8> writes, : Seems to make some sense this way. You wouldn't use Nextstep for 3D development, there is near to no software, you wouldn't wish to develop under Irix either. Actually, NEXTSTEP is pretty darned good for 3D development, at least for non-realtime work. The company just upgraded my workstation to a P6 with 64MB of RAM and a beefy graphics card; solidThinking's QuickRenderMan displays are now as nimble as Alias PowerAnimator 7.0 on an Indigo^2 Extreme. I routinely create animations as good or better than what I made at the Beckman VizLab. -- Steve Weintz * indy@is.com * http://www.is.com/Users/indy Graphic Designer * Integrity Solutions, Inc. * NeXTMail, MIME mail OK "And you two?" "We stampeded cattle." "That's not very criminal." "Through the Vatican?" "Kink-y..." -- Blazing Saddles
From: John Schultz <jschultz@netten.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:49:55 -0600 Organization: T-Net Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32E01E31.2CD4@netten.net> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972306580001@news.quicksilver.com> <doenges.853411327@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> <32DFCD07.3AAE@Fujitsu.com.au> <slrn5dvkfg.r74.darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> In fact, some early (~70s) computer had a >> 12 bit CPU (can't remeber what it was and who made it) that worked bit >> seriell internally, but nobody would call it a one bit computer. I am trying to recall one of the replies to this piece. For some reason my ISP isn't getting everything here. While at work I see it all but my system isn't configured to reply. Yes DEC's PDP-8S was a "cheap" version of the PDP-8 that ran a 1-bit ALU through the 12 bits of data. I do not have any info on its speed. Since the PDP-8's speed was set by the core memory, the PDP-8S probably could process several bits in the 1.5 micro-second memory cycle. So I would expect that the PDP-8S was no 12 times slower. One point that might lead to a wrong conclusion was that the addressing was not relative as we now consider it. Direct addressing was limited to the 128 words of page 0 and the 128 words in the page where the PC was pointing. There were any number of times that the assembler complained because a I/O test loop TSF JMP .-1 crossed a page boundry!
From: froz@algonet.se (Mats Forssblad) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:24:48 GMT Organization: AlgoNet Public Access Node, Stockholm Message-ID: <5b55du$nuq@epimetheus.algonet.se> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59eoku$eih@mica.netsync.net> NNTP-Posting-User: b7fe697fc47f6ef7093c87732e2a5b740 jecobb@netsync.net (Justin Cobb) wrote: >Thomas Vincent (info@sfbayrun.com) wrote: >: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back, at Apple. >: >: To see what I am talking about, check out this LA TIMES article: >: http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/BUSINESS/t000111043.html >That article was promising and encouraging... >If the new MacOS has even half the advantages of Next, I may just have to >start taking it seriously again ;) There seems to be a uniform optimism about this project. I hate to make anyone disappointed, but I have a hunch they are going to f... mess it all up. We do not know that what is going to be produced is a Next that can, eventually, run old Mac binaries, do we? By the way, I got curious about the Next for pc, so I went to their web-page to see what the os costs. I could not find any information. So, with help of dejanews I found out that there IS no price right now, but it DID cost $ 895. Now, that IS STOOPID. No wonder it is not commercially popular. IF such an expensive OS is actually going to get integrated with an os that most people regard as free (even if it, actually is not, but few notice that there is a price), that is going to produce some...what shall we call it...interesting demand/price effects on the NextStep os right now, no?
From: TheCopyCatShop@NA.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5bp5g1$drj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <5bp5g1$drj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:30:37 +1 Organization: The Copy Cat Shop Message-ID: <cancel.5bp5g1$drj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> References: <5bp5g1$drj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> EMP/ECP spam cancelled by hweede@berlin.snafu.de. This is an ongoing spam whose Breidbart index already is above 20. See my report "TheCopyCatShop" or "summary of auto-cancels" in news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Subject was: CD Recordable Media.
From: longsine@platinum.com (Gary W. Longsine) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Online NextStep Guide Date: 18 Jan 1997 02:59:24 GMT Organization: PLATINUM technology, inc. (though i speak for myself only) Message-ID: <5bpeac$944@news.platinum.com> References: <severine-1701970922510001@c6.itis.com> Cc: severine@itis.com In <severine-1701970922510001@c6.itis.com> S. Roberts wrote: > Hi, all. > > I've just become the proud new owner of a Turbo Color Slab, and I'm > looking for _online_ users' guides/introductions/overviews that can help > get me started. > > I'm not adverse to going and picking up a book, although the cheapest > they seem to come is $30 and I'd like to get some docs that I can print > out right away and use today. > > If you have any suggestions, please give me an email and/or post here. > > Thanks! All the NeXT documentation (i think) is now on-line at: http://www.next.com The main archive of cool shareware/freeware/gplware/demoware is: http://www.peak.org/ftp/pub/next/nextstep.html Other useful stuff: http://www3.pair.com/mccarthy/nextstep/index.html http://www.misckit.com/ -- Gary W. Longsine, Systems Engineer | ____/| PLATINUM Technologies, Inc. | \ o.O| "The meek shall longsine@platinum.com (NeXTmail | =(_)= inherit nothin'." (612) 688-3033 x7814 & MIME) |. U - Frank Zappa
From: darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com (Darin Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 17 Jan 1997 19:24:37 GMT Message-ID: <slrn5dvkfg.r74.darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972306580001@news.quicksilver.com> <doenges.853411327@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> <32DFCD07.3AAE@Fujitsu.com.au> >> In fact, some early (~70s) computer had a >> 12 bit CPU (can't remeber what it was and who made it) that worked bit >> seriell internally, but nobody would call it a one bit computer. Burroughs had a variable-bit computer. Word size was not fixed, at least not in the instruction stream. It was stack-based, so you couldn't classify it based on register size. Don't know details about it, it may have had an upper limit based on the ALU though. -- Darin Johnson darin@connectnet.com
From: longsine@platinum.com (Gary W. Longsine) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 18 Jan 1997 03:13:41 GMT Organization: PLATINUM technology, inc. (though i speak for myself only) Message-ID: <5bpf55$944@news.platinum.com> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1501972325330001@news.ececs.uc.edu> Hi folks, This thread continues to rage on. Meanwhile, in another thread, I found: rhapsody-dev-feedback@apple.com leadership@apple.com http://www.apple.com/main/contact.html I suggest that each of you with one or more NuBus PowerMac(s) compose a short email, with the subject, "Please include NuBus support in GA Rhapsody" and send it to the two relevant addresses listed. It will do much more for your cause than endless speculation here. Be polite, and include the following information: 1.) I own XXX NuBus PowerMacs. 2.) I would be willing to upgrade RAM and DISK if needed to run a modern 32-bit OS on my NuBus PowerMac. 3.) I would be willing to pay $XXX.YY for the OS upgrade for Rhapsody to run on my NuBus PowerMac. 4.) Please commit to this publicly as soon as you are able, since I'm going insane with fear. Please note that I, myself, do not own such a machine, and will encourage Apple to do this anyway, while honestly admitting that I don't own a NuBus PowerMac. I just think that if it's possible (which it should be) then it's really The Right Thing (tm). I own a NeXTstation Turbo (mono) and I believe that Rhapsody will probably run on that machine, too, since it essentially already does. ;-) /gary -- Gary W. Longsine, Systems Engineer | ____/| PLATINUM Technologies, Inc. | \ o.O| "The meek shall longsine@platinum.com (NeXTmail | =(_)= inherit nothin'." (612) 688-3033 x7814 & MIME) |. U - Frank Zappa
From: cjones@wellesley.edu (Carl Jones) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Linux and NEXTSTEP on the same HD? Date: 10 Jan 1997 16:56:40 Organization: Wellesley College Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b6duo$qp9@cokie.wellesley.edu> Hi, I'd like to install Linux on an unused partition of my PC running NEXTSTEP 3.3. Is there any problem with doing this? Will the NEXTSTEP boot program allow me to start Linux (or will Lilo allow me to boot NEXTSTEP)? Carl -- cjones@wellesley.edu (NeXTMail/MIME OK)
From: don@globalobjects.com (Don Yacktman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: .places .dir and .opendir files Date: 10 Jan 1997 02:52:15 GMT Organization: Global Objects Inc. Message-ID: <5b4asv$ebp@news.xmission.com> References: <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> william@mathworks.com (William York) wrote: > What are these files for: > > .dir.tiff The icon to display for a directory instead of the standard folder. > .dir3_0.wmd Stores the shape and size of the browser that will be used when you do a sommand-O (from WorkSpace) on the directory. > .opendir.tiff The icon to display for a directory when you drag a file over it instead of the standard opened folder. > .places3_0.wmd Stores the locations of the icons in the Icon View for a particular directory. > I've seen them in a few packages from ftp sites... Hope that helps. All the files are used by WorkSpace to do its GUI magic. -- Later, -Don Yacktman don@misckit.com <a href="http://www.misckit.com/don.html">My home page</a>
From: colin@rice.edu (Colin Anderson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: ! Help ! w/ my NeXT Station Date: 18 Jan 1997 07:13:45 GMT Organization: Valley Tech Corporation Customer Message-ID: <colin-1701972356390001@anderson.vt.com> Hi, I recently purchased a NeXT Station to make a plunge into NeXT/UNIX. Well, I'm not sure what I did, but I get a "Loading from network" message upon power up. What in the world did I do? BTW: How in the heck can all the data and power travel to the megapixel grayscale monitor in that single cable ?? Wanting to get into NeXT (and maybe, sometime, NeXT for INTEL) Colin Anderson colin@rice.edu
From: R.J.Patel@massey.ac.nz (Raj Patel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:18:01 +1300 Organization: Massey University College Of Education Distribution: world Message-ID: <R.J.Patel-ya023480001001971018010001@news.massey.ac.nz> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) wrote: > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's > missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file > without opening an application that knows how to print it. As a Mac user I'm fairly certain that when you drop a file onto a desktop printer it actually starts the app and prints from there. The same thing happens when you select a file in the finder and use print from the file menu. The neat thing about desktop printing is that once the job is queued-up you can do different things to it. eg hold the queue (useful for printing away from the office on laptops), move jobs from one desktop printer to another etc. > If the Mac's > desktop printer supports dragging a file icon and dropping it on the desktop > printer icon to print the file, that seems like a nice design. Apparently the kludge involved to get desktop printing to work is pretty awesome :-) I guess if they include it from scratch things will be better. Raj.
From: aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Desktop Printer (was: Finder vs File Viewer) Date: 10 Jan 1997 03:27:25 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <5b4cut$9u8@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> References: <5arh2r$2no@nyheter.chalmers.se> <5b0kjs$89r@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <5b2mvg$7qs@white.koehntopp.de> KRIS@KOEHNTOPP.DE (Kristian =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hntopp?=) wrote: > aisbell@ix.netcom.com (Art Isbell) writes: > > Maybe this is a situation where the Mac has a better idea. What's > >missing from the OPENSTEP printing architecture is the ability print a file > >without opening an application that knows how to print it. > Erm, may I ask how should such a thing be done? I mean, how > should the printing subsystem transform for example a stream of > saved objects of unknown origin into a sheet of paper? You will > need at least a substantial part of the application that > created such a document to have this objects reactivate > themselves and make themselves print. Sure, but it would be nice not to have to launch the app itself either by double-clicking the icon representing the file to be printed or the app itself which usually will needlessly display the file when all I want to do is print. > You may use a printers icon as a short cut to start such this > application and invoke its print command, but that should be > all. Yeah, that's all I meant. Drag-and-drop the file icon onto a printer icon, Workspace Manager opens the app that knows how to print this file and opens its Print panel with any Print panel accessory view that might be supplied by the app, and the usual Print panel procedure is then completed by the user at which point the app that printed the file quits. D.O. could be used to do much of this. -- Art Isbell NeXT/MIME Mail: aisbell@ix.netcom.com Trego Systems Voice/Fax: +1 408 335 2515 CaseServ: OPENSTEP Voice Mail: +1 408 335 1154 managed care solutions US Mail: Felton, CA 95018-9442
From: rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:57:13 -0800 Organization: Quicksilver Software, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <rbarris-ya023280001701971957130001@news.quicksilver.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) wrote: > > >> This is oh so true. I've got two 68K MOT instruction set manuals. One > >> calls the processor a 16 bit unit, the other proudly announces it as > >> an advanced 32 bit processor (SAME processor part number). One manual > >> was before Apple literature described the 68K as a 32 bit processor, > >> the other after - connection? This reminds me of the transistor count > >> game that was played with transistor radios. I once disassembled a > >> 14-transistor Radio Shack radio. 2 of the transistors were wired and > >> used as diodes, 4 had ALL THREE leads soldered together and tacked > >> here and there on the PCB. So, what I really had was an 8 transistor > >> radio and 2 of those had little if any effect on performance. It's ALL > >> in the marketing.... > > > > Bogus. > > Hey, I didn't write the manuals. If you think it's bogus, talk to MOT! > The fact is, the timing of the manuals was just as I described. Looks > like a clear attempt at impressing newbies. Unfortunately, for MOT, > newbies and end users rarely order instruction set manuals. However, > the point wasn't entirely lost as Apple had good time with it. Lance, I'm a programmer, and from a programmer point of view it was possible to write 32-bit code without contortions on 68K from its inception (and have that code continue to run without modification on later models with larger physical address spaces). This did not become true on x86 until two unique memory models and some years later (80386). > > Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers > >and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and > >only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium > >and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted > >to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a > >processor. > > > > Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by > computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you > mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. So was it accepted in 1982 or not? Rob Barris Quicksilver Software Inc. rbarris@quicksilver.com * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
From: Eren_Kotan@next.com (Eren Kotan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXTtime movie demos Bogus, according to Apple Engineers (Was Re: Date: 10 Jan 1997 22:20:22 GMT Organization: NeXT Software, Inc. Message-ID: <5b6fb6$gst@news.next.com> References: <AEF7D85E-6BA03@198.68.42.135> In a previous post, I have said something like: > On my system I can play 9 Quicktime videos at the same time... Well, I've had many requests to provide screenshots of this, mostly from sceptical Mac users, but since I haven't organized my life enough yet to bring my web pages back up, I am instead willing to email these screenshots to interested parties. There are two screenshots (named qtime1 and qtime2), the second one taken roughly about two minutes after the first. You can verify this by looking at the icon for Preferences.app which shows the current time. This is the second icon from the top on my dock, right underneath the NeXT icon, on the right hand side of the pictures. These screenshots are both available in TIFF and JPEG formats (TIFF is far better in quality, but you might have problems viewing them on a non-NeXT system if your viewer does not understand NeXT TIFFs). You can see I was not cheating (as if!) because I was using NEXTIME under OPENSTEP/Mach for Intel 4.1 which shows a little play icon when the clip is stopped and a little pause icon when the clip is playing. In my screenshots, all 9 of the video clips have pause icons :) I can email these as MIME/NeXTmail or uuencoded ASCII, so please indicate which file format/transmission method you prefer. Please email me at Eren_Kotan@next.com to request them. I'll compress them as tar.gz to reduce file sizes. As I say, I don't want to get involved in the argument over whether this is a meaningful benchmark or not, but I personally thought it *was* rather impressive: - All the videos had sound and I could click on any window to hear its soundtrack (in sync with whatever the video was showing at the time), - Two of the movie windows were set to display at double the normal size, - There were several apps in the background running, - I was still able to type in some text in a Mail window (no loss of responsiveness) - All of this only ate less than 25% CPU time as you can see in the second screenshot from the output of ps -aux. The only reason why I stated 9 as my upper limit of videos is because I only have 9 Quicktime clips on my hard disk, and also there wouldn't be any more screen real estate to display more movie windows on my lowly 1024x768 screen :) Regards, Eren -- Eren Kotan - NeXT Software (UK) Limited oh, one moment, it's Apple now The best friend money can buy ObjectLine Support E-mail: Eren_Kotan@next.com - WWW: http://www.next.com/
From: Eric Smalling <Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:21:53 -0600 Organization: SABRE Decision Technologies http://www.amrcorp.com Message-ID: <32D6B2F1.53E6@amrcorp.com> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59eoku$eih@mica.netsync.net> <5b55du$nuq@epimetheus.algonet.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mats Forssblad wrote: > By the way, I got curious about the Next for pc, so I went to their > web-page to see what the os costs. I could not find any information. > So, with help of dejanews I found out that there IS no price right > now, but it DID cost $ 895. Now, that IS STOOPID. No wonder it is not > commercially popular. IF such an expensive OS is actually going to get > integrated with an os that most people regard as free (even if it, > actually is not, but few notice that there is a price), that is going > to produce some...what shall we call it...interesting demand/price > effects on the NextStep os right now, no? hehe - That's probably just to use the thing too! Developer (non-academic) packages are much more. I've been trying to convince my managers to look at OpenStep for NT here for months, but look at the price of the "Starter Pack" _special offer_ at this url: http://www.next.com:80/OPENSTEP/Products/OS_NT/OSE_Starter.htmld/ Yup, thats right FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for _ONE_ developer (on the Enterprise Platform) !!! (and 3 Deployment Packs whatever they are) I sincerly hope Apple helps bring that price down _significantly_. I'm going to a NeXT Seminar next week to see OpenStep Enterprise and WebObjects Enterprise, I'm hoping they will affirm this! es PS: For a full price list see: http://www.optimal-object.com/Software/prices.html -- ____________________________________________________________________ Eric A. Smalling SABRE Decision Technologies - Ft Worth, Texas USA --=== ------=== The Any views expressed are mine alone and are in no ----------- SABRE way the views of AMR or any of it's subsidiaries. ------=== Group --=== email:Eric_Smalling@amrcorp.com Corp Web Site: http://www.amrcorp.com/sabr_grp/sdt/sdt.htm ____________________________________________________________________
From: djembe@sprynet.REMOVE_TO_REPLY.com (Mike Cohen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:39:36 -0700 Organization: ISIS International Message-ID: <AF0515789668276DEE@0.0.0.0> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> <jak-ya023680001601972317260001@news.asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <jak-ya023680001601972317260001@news.asu.edu>, jak@asu.edu (John Kestner) wrote: | No shit! Although some say we have to jump on Apple's back now, to make | sure they _do_ support NuBus PPCs, I think it's been taken too far, | jumping to conclusions much like the article in the Chicago Tribune. And | now there's danger of a vicious circle; people don't want to buy Macs | because they think the company's going under, then the company does worse. | People then say, "See, I told you." Most people are idiots. Yes, we need to | give Apple constructive criticism, but we shouldn't kill it. Then we all | lose. NuBus powermacs are an ugly kludge. The I/O interface is based on 68K emulated drivers, which are a major pain to support and slow down the system. PCI systems use native drivers which are much cleaner & easier to support. I wouldn't blame Apple if they don't support NuBus powermacs (even though I'm still using a 6100 until I can get something better). ### Mike Cohen - djembe(at)sprynet(dot)com - http://pobox.com/~djembe ### ISIS International - http://www.isis-intl.com/ - mike(at)isis-intl.com ### Have a clear mind, be pure in your heart - Youssou N'dour, "Set" ### RETURN ADDRESS HAS BEEN ALTERED TO FOIL SPAMMERS
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:27:58 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972228120001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <marke-2712961423500001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <ldo-2812961319230001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5a5hmm$94p@news3.digex.net> <scottm-ya02408000R3112960318390001@news.erols.com> <5abhd5$t8s@news3.digex.net> <rzeman-3112961927480001@rzeman.his.com> <kindall-0101971353110001@ppp.manual.com> <ldo-0301971942460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <slrn5cq9a1.i4d.pfd@zip1.ziplink.net> <ldo-0801972122420001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b040l$2em@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: >It's so obvious: >If you view a PostScript file on a GX based machine you need to convert from >the PS display model to the GX display model. That takes time. It would be >(theoretically) just as slow to view a GX file on a DPS based machine. This is a load of crap, you clearly know squat about GX. The PS display model used in Acrobat makes calls to QuickDraw, not QuickDraw GX. Whether or not I use GX, Acrobat displays at the same slow speed. It has NOTHING to do with GX. Would Acrobat work better on DPS? I have no doubt. If Acrobat was re-written to take full advantage of GX would it work better. I have bo doubt it would work better than a DPS version. >Besides, the discussion is moot since Apple has already decided to use DPS >and add GX compatibility. Errors in your facts are never moot at any time. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:36:42 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972236560001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <5apl3e$i15@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu> In article <5b0hh2$19n@news1.ucsd.edu>, mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) wrote: >And the NeXT engineers will go nuts screaming: > > "You idiots, do you know just how LONG it took to get OpenStep to work > nicely with DPS? Do you REALLY want to break the ONLY native apps > for your new operating system?? I thought you bought us because you > wanted something which WORKED." Well let them scream because there are no native apps for the new operating system in existance. Are you talking about current OpenStep applications? There is no indication those will work on the hybrid operating system. You like System 7, you can run System 7 on your machine - or run apps in the blue box on Rhapsody. You like OpenStep, you can keep OpenStep on your machine. Rhapsody is the new Mac OS - it is not OpenStep. >Kernel updates are necessary only so far as they provide good performance and >high speed support for new hardware. I bet the first kernel will be >Mach because it works. In the future, probably a newer kernel. Depends on how difficult it is to get NuKernel to run with OpenStep instead of Mach. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: remedies@rapidremedies.com (Chris Murphy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 10 Jan 1997 05:43:22 GMT Organization: Rapid Remedies Message-ID: <remedies-0901972243360001@den-co31-23.ix.netcom.com> References: <jinx6568-0501971252460001@news.sover.net> <AEF57109-1DD53@198.68.42.187> <jcr.852517036@idiom.com> <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de> In article <5b2mdl$30m@www.langen.bull.de>, vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: >In <simpson-ya023680000801971813550001@xavier.noc.drexel.edu> Homer Simpson >wrote: >[...] >> Please define rendering a window. If the window contains 1000 or 2000 >> separate objects (like a cad document with layers) along with diferent >> colors, shapes, sizes and tranparency modes. If you loop 5 times to >> completely redraw all of the objects in the window which would be faster >> DPS or GX provide both had equivalent hardware? > >DPS. > >BTW, does GX really have to loop through all the objects five times to make >sure everything is drawed? =8-[=] See, if YOU don't know the answer to this question, you CLEARLY have no basis for answering the original poster's question. DO YOU program in both DPS and GX to know the difference? Qualify your answer - or it's about as good as telling us how nice the rains on Titan are this time of year. Chris Murphy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- R a p i d R e m e d i e s remedies@rapidremedies.com Troubleshooting & Upgrades for Macs 303.449.5159 fax 303.938.9563 -------------------------------------------------- Member of the Apple Solution Professionals Network
From: Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: 18 Jan 1997 04:18:01 GMT Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA Message-ID: <5bpitp$237@usenet.rpi.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> <32DF30D9.4191@kuwait.net> "Ala'a H. Jawad" <aljawad@kuwait.net> wrote: > But back to the point at hand: I find it hard to believe that > Apple still supports (OS wise) the Mac Plus some 11 years after > its introduction, but will not support computers that the company > shipped 3 years ago that utilize the same family of processors, > but a different bus??? I believe it's true that system 7.6 will not run on a Mac Plus, or any other 68000 or 68020-based systems. I don't remember if it includes support for 68030-based systems. > Let's say thats exactly what they are going to do: Let us say it isn't. Apple has not been good at delivering on promises for hardware upgrade paths, but it has done fairly well at supporting things in software. It would not surprise me if Rhapsody is never ported to 68K machines, but I don't think the bus will be a big stopping point. It's just that the initial release (this year's developer version) may not include support for them. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer (MIME & NeXTmail capable) Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy NY USA
From: brubeck@wport.com (Matt Brubeck) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:11:41 -0800 Organization: Zip News Message-ID: <brubeck-ya02408000R1701972211410001@snews.zippo.com> References: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58>, "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> wrote: >Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus >PowerMacs. What exactly do you mean by this? I'm fairly certain there isn't any major difference in bus, motherboard, RAM paging... between the 61xx performas and their x100 cousins. ,--------------.-------------------. | Matt Brubeck I brubeck@wport.com | `--------------^-------------------'
From: scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:17:20 -0500 Organization: PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals) Message-ID: <scottm-ya02408000R1801970417200001@news.erols.com> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> <siamak-ya02408000R1701970314590001@netnews2.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <siamak-ya02408000R1701970314590001@netnews2.worldnet.att.net>, siamak@worldnet.att.net (Siamak Ansari) wrote: >In article <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net>, >zxeses@stop.spams.dead.edu (Zxeses) wrote: > >> A loyal mac addict, Apple lover, and all around resonable guy, who would >> rather eat razors and lead paint then use Winsuck-Anything. If Apple stops >> MAKING computers, I will stop USING computers. >> > >Ah, the follies of slavish loyalty. > And the intelligence to not use Win-anything. -- -------------------------------- Scott Maxwell - scottm@nic.com "We are a fact-gathering organization only... the minute the FBI begins making recommendations on what should be done with its information, it becomes a Gestapo." -- J. Edgar Hoover
From: atheurer@cs.utexas.edu (Andrew Matthew Theurer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: 18 Jan 1997 01:01:12 -0600 Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin Message-ID: <5bpsfo$ip0@jeckle.cs.utexas.edu> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Ident-User: atheurer In article <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, Steve Weintz <indy@beckman.uiuc.edu> wrote: >Actually, NEXTSTEP is pretty darned good for 3D development, at least for >non-realtime work. The company just upgraded my workstation to a P6 with 64MB >of RAM and a beefy graphics card; solidThinking's QuickRenderMan displays are >now as nimble as Alias PowerAnimator 7.0 on an Indigo^2 Extreme. I routinely Non-hardware accellerated 3D faster than I2's openGL? Sounds fishy. I guess comparing two different software packages isn't really a good comparison. If you're talking stricly non-realtime rendering, I believe you. "quick" rendering, no way. What king of API comes with Openstep 4.1 for Mach? QuickRenderMan? How does the API compare to others? Andrew Theurer.
From: pjb@imaginet.fr (Pascal Bourguignon) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: .places .dir and .opendir files Date: 11 Jan 1997 00:20:41 GMT Organization: ImagiNET Message-ID: <5b6mcp$bms@belzebul.imaginet.fr> References: <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> In article <5b38pl$o9e@madmax.mathworks.com> william@mathworks.com (William York) writes: > > What are these files for: > > .dir.tiff Picture of the directory. > .dir3_o.wmd Some other Workspace Manager data about the directory (position of the directory window, its configuration, etc). > .opendir.tiff Picture of the open directory (when you're dragging an icon to it). > .places3_0.wmd Where the places (position) of the icons are stored. > > I've seen them in a few packages from ftp sites... > > -- > William York > william@mathworks.com These files are only used by the Workspace Manager. __Pascal Bourguignon__
From: uli@zoodle.robin.de (Ulrich Grepel) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Date: 16 Jan 1997 20:27:27 GMT Organization: meow!!! (private site) Message-ID: <5bm2vf$119@zoodle.robin.de> References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu> <E3yJBn.BCI@novice.uwaterloo.ca> In-Reply-To: <E3yJBn.BCI@novice.uwaterloo.ca> In article <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu>, > Yep, it's a sad world. Maybe we should stay away from this Apple > thing, now that we're suddenly popular, and try to push for a GnuBe > port or something. Actually, that name is kind of cute, huh? And it reminds me of "Cube" ;-) Bye, Uli
From: brubeck@wport.com (Matt Brubeck) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:05:35 -0800 Organization: Zip News Message-ID: <brubeck-ya02408000R1701972205350001@snews.zippo.com> References: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58>, "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> wrote: >Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus >PowerMacs. "16 bit processing?" What are you talking about? Would you care to elaborate, because I'm fairly certain that, whatever you are trying to say by this, it's not correct... ,--------------.-------------------. | Matt Brubeck I brubeck@wport.com | `--------------^-------------------'
From: "Jonathan W. Hendry" <jon@steeldriving.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:49:10 -0500 Organization: Steel Driving Software, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32D70DB6.2D75@steeldriving.com> References: <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59eoku$eih@mica.netsync.net> <5b55du$nuq@epimetheus.algonet.se> <32D6B2F1.53E6@amrcorp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Smalling wrote: > Yup, thats right FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for _ONE_ developer (on the > Enterprise Platform) !!! (and 3 Deployment Packs whatever they are) The Deployment Pack must be the OpenStep runtime (name daemon, window server, pasteboard server, etc.) that has to be installed on systems that are going to be running OpenStep NT applications. -- Jonathan W. Hendry President, Steel Driving Software, Inc. OpenStep, Delphi, and Java Consulting in Cincinnati http://www.steeldriving.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701102227.RAA01408@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 17:27:47 -0500 Subject: THIS IS NOT AN ADVOCACY GROUP, THIS IS NOT A GROUP ABOUT GX Cc: english@primenet.com Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Not that anyone seems to give a &*%! anymore, but I thought I'd remind people what this group used to be about, what it was designed for: comp.sys.next.misc For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! http://www.stepwise.com/Resources/Newsgroups/roadmap.html Kindly move all this tripe out of the comp.sys.next.misc group. TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) / http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat For info on my email auto-responder and searching the PEAK FTP site via email, send me an email with the SUBJECT "send-help" (without the " marks, of course ;-) ^^^^^^^
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:00:11 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1801971100110001@news.ececs.uc.edu> References: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58> <brubeck-ya02408000R1701972211410001@snews.zippo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <brubeck-ya02408000R1701972211410001@snews.zippo.com>, brubeck@wport.com (Matt Brubeck) wrote: >In article <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58>, "J. Paul Lindblad" ><searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> wrote: > >>Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus >>PowerMacs. > >What exactly do you mean by this? I'm fairly certain there isn't any major >difference in bus, motherboard, RAM paging... between the 61xx performas >and their x100 cousins. > > ,--------------.-------------------. > | Matt Brubeck I brubeck@wport.com | > `--------------^-------------------' I believe in some of the earlier Powermac Performas there was the difference that the databus to the memory was only 32-bit rather than 64-bit wide. This accounts for the apparent faster response of say a 8100/80 compared to a 6300/100. You can also tell this is the case by the fact that the 6100/7100/8100 motherboards required memory to be added in pairs of SIMMs (i.e. 2x32-bit address lines) whereas the Performas would take single SIMMS. This may not be true on the top-of-line new Performas like the 6400. Jack -- Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474
From: martin@datamodl.demon.co.uk (Martin Hargreaves) Newsgroups: comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.newton.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.pen,comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy,comp.sys.powerpc.tech,comp.sys.sgi.admin,comp.sys.sgi.apps,comp.sys.sgi.graphics,comp.sys.sgi.hardware,comp.sys.sinclair,comp.sys.sun.admin,comp.sys.sun.hardware,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.sun.wanted,comp.sys.tandy,comp.text.frame,comp.text.pdf,comp.text.sgml,comp.text.tex,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.unix.aix,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.osf.osf1,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.sco.misc,comp.unix.shell Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:39:06 GMT Organization: Datamodel Ltd Message-ID: <853605586.12929.1@datamodl.demon.co.uk> References: <59nb2t$eck@news3.texas.net> <59nmve$phs@synthemesc.insync.net> <55pvzjh8t8.fsf@pbunyk.physics.sunysb.edu> paul@pbunyk.physics.sunysb.edu (Paul Bunyk) wrote: > >Actually... there was an ancient way to break a *given* mail programm >on a system you know too well: Theoretically if the mail program do >not allocate enough space for Subject: line, for example, and you feed it >a cerefully choosen long subject line, it can write itslef over some internal >structures of the program and mabe even cause some code to be executed. >Of course the mail program should be buggy (but sendmail *was* buggy, moreover, >it *is* buggy still) but I doubt that there still are people who can craft See recent issues of Phrack for "Smashing the Stack for Fun and Profit". Any fool can do it now. Most recent in this vein was using a long gecos field a while ago. >that ;-) As far as I remember Morrison's famous Internet worm exploited >something like this in Sun's sendmail... Morris's worm used the now very elderly DEBUG hole. >But you should not worry, Windows'95's mail can not have this bug! ><kidding!> See the NT security mailing list for recently posted buffer overrung exploits embedded in mail designed for Windows NT and 95. ;-) Security - it worse than you think... M.
# Martin Hargreaves (Director/Consultant) # # Datamodel Ltd - Open Systems Management and Security # # martin@datamodl.demon.co.uk http://www.datamodl.demon.co.uk # ###################################################################
From: t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 01:04:42 GMT Organization: Netcom Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> In article <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84>, "David Every" <dke@adnc.com> wrote: >> >You have it exactly backwards. CISC instruction sets are more >complex >> >and require more decode logic. This makes it harder decompose the >> >instruction stream into independant pieces that can be dispatched >> >to seperate execution units. > >Stephan Schaem <t21@ix.netcom.com> >> Risc need bigger cache, faster instruction fecth to execute the >same >> logic. > >Code creep on RISC seems to be about 10-20% in most cases... however >CISC machines (like the P6) also demand aligned instructions and data >to get their best performance - which translates to code (data) creep. >I am not sure which is worse at this point. > How often do you allign instructions... and isn;t this an effect of the cache? >Instructions do not need to be faster - that is a seperate issue all >together. In many cases the opposite is proving to be true - with RISC >machines (604e) beating the CISC-RISC hybrids (like PPro) eventhough >the later has a larger and faster cache and a lot more circuitry. So >you seem to be wrong in practice. > Its because the x86 is terrible in design... and in turn the code is not smaller then risc code, but suffer all the cisc disadventages. x86 is not cisc , P6 is not risc. x86 are just crap design. Dont label P6 code CISC and then prove a point that way... The general idea is that cisc can code more computation per byte, please look at a 680x0 for a better example. ). I'm not saying a 68000 is faster then a 500mhz PPC, just that byte for byte a 68000 acheive more, and in turn require less bandwidth and less instruction cache size. >> >As chip integration increases, more execution units can be added >> >which RISC can take advantage of in a more direct fashion. (There >> >are fewer dependancies between instructions, etc) >> >> And need more bandwidth and faster/bigger cache. > >BOTH need that - and PPro needs much more and faster than PPC to get >the same results - so it seems you have this backwards. > Both, but not at the same rate.... Dont equal the X86 ppro implementation to CISC. >> Having fixed size >> instruction is great, but this do not stop you from having more >complex >> instruction doing more per instruction. > >Sure you could do more per instruction on CISC - but each instruction >was slower and could stall the pipe - resulting in MUCH slowing >performance than just doing it the RISC way. So you save 10% in memory >- and lose 40% in die size to support CISC, and lose 40% in >performance - not a good tradeoff if you ask me. > I dont beleive those number are acurate... >> >Take a look at the fastest CISC out there, the Pentium Pro. What >> >does it do? It 'preprocesses' the CISC instruction stream into a >> >simpler, more 'RISC' like, instruction stream which is then >executed. >> >> Thats the amazing part too me... that this actually work :) >> It execute 3 variable size instruction per cycle.... > >Its called superscalar - and it is not amazing it works - it is >amazing how much more die size (gates) it takes up to do the same >amount of work. > It is not really the same work... with fixed size instruction you can start decoding right away. With variable size decoding during 1 cycle you need to figure out the size of the THREE next instruction + do the decoding as on a risc design. And this is what is amazing to me... >> >How much cheaper/faster would that CPU be if it could be fed >> >the RISC code directly? >> >> Humm, the code size would probably double, so you need to spend >> $ on bigger cache and faster memory. > >You have this backwards - this is why RISC's have been proven cheaper >to design and implement, and outperform CISC overall, and much more >dramatic results when you look at performance/gate or >performance/watt, etc.... > So risc need smaller & cheaper cache?!?!?!? I think you read what I'm writting backward... >> >Show me a CISC chip and I will show you a faster/cheaper RISC >> >chip. >> >This don't make CISC bad, just not better. >> >> My view is, cisc better exploit the resource at hand... risc are >alot >> faster/cheaper to design and improve giving them the edge. >> Even so, like some mentioned, at one time, the Pentiumpro was >> THE fastest CPU on earth for integer work :) > >Sure... CISC chips CAN be faster - but they can't keep up, and cost >more to design, etc.... as for better resources at hand the CISC have >yet to prove that - to get the performance on CISC (like PPro) you >have to have alignment issues, etc. that make it look more like a RISC >than a CISC anyways - and you get code creep the same as RISC. So >wheres the advantage? > PPrO is a VERY bad cisc example... its a cisc (variable instruction size, etc..) but only work well with risc like instruction. And the x86 instruction set is an horrible instruction set. Your whole argument is based on a PPRO vs PPC for CISC vs RISC. The advantage of cisc is in the end you get more computing done per byte. >> >In the end it really doesn't matter. Most code is written in >> >a high level languge and can compile anywhere. Code that is >> >written against a particular CPU will be shortlived >> >> Yes, but it will live long enought to make sense to do it. (I mean >> hand written specific CPU code) > >Now days people are learning - NO! (Or only very selectively. First >you write in standard language and get it working. Then you profile >and tune certain areas. Giving you portability FIRST - then >performance enhancements second). > All the people I know that write aplication have hand coded version of the critical C/C++ code... If you dont care about performance in the first place this is not even an issue, so I did beleive you where talking about hi performance aplication. I agree is best to first write the program, then profile it then optimize it :) doing it in the reverse order is very rare > >> >Advice: Write it in a high level language and re-compile as needed. >> >> My advice... Write in the language that fit the best, and hand >optimize >> assembly version of the critical part (If any). Most compiler today >can >> produce code as much as 4 time slower as human rewritten code. > >Humans can tune code... but the way most people are doing it is >writing high-level and getting it working (and portable) FIRST. Then Yes, and? (aren't repeating myself ?) >profiling and tuning as necessary... it turns out that in the past >humans weren't always that good at guessing which parts of the code >were the bottlenecks and so wasted time optimizing the wrong areas - >and not creating portability first. Creating portability? Aren't people creating first a working model of the aplication then fixing the speed issue? When I was writting asm on the amiga I first get the thing working, then I would optimize it. And I usually dont waist time optimizing the wrong algo, something that people still to today. Stephan
From: togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:28:30 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32e14540.11376132@news.sover.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> <carol1-1801971152140001@17.219.103.153> carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) wrote: >In article <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > >> Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by >> computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you >> mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. > >I belive that the Saturn chip developed by HP is a 4 bit CPU with >a 4 bit ALU. > >The model exposed to the RPN programmer may be 64 bits, but >the internal hardware is only 4 bits at a time. I've seen >assembly code for this littel machine and it's rather tedious. > >Power consumption is a real issue. Why do in 64 parallel bits >what can be cycled through 4 bits with lots less power? > The Saturn has a real 64-bit ALU while the internal/external data path is 4-bits. No doubt, the assembly code you've seen involves moving 4-bit "fields" in/out of the ALU. Many people consider assembly code tedious whatever the processor. Certainly, floating point operations with an integer ALU can be less than fun! The 64-bit ALU makes perfect sense when you consider that the CPU was specifically designed for floating point operations. As such, the ALU can hold the entire binary representation of a floating point number (mantissa and exponent). RPN programmers are generally unaware of CPU bit size because RPN deals with named variables that may contain one or more of a large variety of objects with floating point numbers being just one in the list. All of the Saturn CPU registers are static CMOS so I've missed your point concerning power consumption. BTW, with the 48GX, I can have the answers to some really heavy math problems before most PCs get the mouse cursor on the screen :). A lot cheaper to buy and run too not to mention that it fits in a coat pocket.
From: masic@rpi.edu (Christopher Masi) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:05:14 -0500 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA Message-ID: <masic-1801971805140001@mac2.chem.rpi.edu> References: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58> In article <AF042950-118B0B@206.173.240.58>, "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> wrote: > >I have a Performa 6116 at home, should I throw it in the dumpster tonight > and > >then kill myself? It may not run Rhapsody, and life just has no > >meaning for me anymore. Why, oh why did I buy a Nubus Powermac? * > > > >John > > > Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus > PowerMacs. > > Perhaps you found a lesser need for a platform to run graphics-intensive > applications as opposed to games, home use... > > You are right about trying to determine where the cut-off is for Rhapsody. > > Now lets get Apple to do the same. > > - Paul > Ahh...actually the 611x series performas are PowerMacs; same thing as a PPC 6100 (that is what is written on the motherboard). I bought a 611x because it was the only affordable PPC out there at the time. Christopher
From: masic@rpi.edu (Christopher Masi) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:08:18 -0500 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA Message-ID: <masic-1801971808180001@mac2.chem.rpi.edu> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <mazulauf-1701971104260001@dopey.met.utah.edu> In article <mazulauf-1701971104260001@dopey.met.utah.edu>, mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) wrote: > > Seriously, isn't this a bit premature? Apple said that Rhapsody would > > support all current hardware. > > Apple said it would support currently _shipping_ hardware. My 7100 is > currently hardware, though it's not shipping. The idea behind all the > noise is to get Apple to decide for NuBus support, before they decide > against it. > > Mike Mike, I have a 6115 and I feel your pain. If I ship you my Mac and you ship it back will that make it a currently shipping Mac? Chris x performas > >and their x100 cousins. > > > > ,--------------.-------------------. > > | Matt Brubeck I brubeck@wport.com | > > `--------------^-------------------' > > I believe in some of the earlier Powermac Performas there was the difference that > the databus to the memory was only 32-bit rather than 64-bit wide. This accounts > for the apparent faster response of say a 8100/80 compared to a 6300/100. You > can also tell this is the case by the fact that the 6100/7100/8100 motherboards > required memory to be added in pairs of SIMMs (i.e. 2x32-bit address lines) whereas > the Performas would take single SIMMS. This may not be true on the top-of-line new > Performas like the 6400. > Jack 611x's require 2 same size SIMMs to be put in also. 6400's require DIMM's. So I would say these are 64 bit data busses. The 62xx are 32 bit data busses they are based on the 600's (680LC40's no PPC) motherboard which has a 32 bit data bus also. The early Performa's (611x) were actually better than the next generation (6200's). Christopher
From: severine@itis.com (S. Roberts) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Zip drives? Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:23:25 -0600 Organization: Intranet Message-ID: <severine-1801972023250001@c1.itis.com> What's the deal with Zip drives and NeXTs? (I have a Turbo Color Slab, fyi.) The Zip is an external SCSI. Thanks. -- severine@itis.com
From: Stephen Zisk <zisk@adobe.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.lang.postscript Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:52:09 -0800 Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated Message-ID: <32D6C80D.6A4F@adobe.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5afael$g0b@news3.digex.net> <ldo-0301972000590001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <ct207-0301971033150001@ct207.joh.cam.ac.uk> <ldo-0801972153050001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lawrence: I am writing this post because of some places where you (and some other PostScript and GX advocates) appear to be playing fast and loose with definitions, opinions, and levels of distinction. I think GX is cool technology and wish it were more widespread and more compatible, but I don't see it in conflict with PostScript, even as a screen imaging model. It seems to me that GX provides a higher-level API than raw PostScript (or DPS, except for some of the hit detection stuff), so that the two are really addressing different needs. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. In the future, it would be useful if you distinguished between your "facts", "untested assertions", and "opinions". Holding you to this standard, I will try to do the same in this post. > In case you hadn't noticed, "PostScript" is no longer synonymous with > "quality". PostScript and non-PostScript printers are built around the > same imaging engines, except that the PostScript versions might cost > US$150 or more extra. Opinion: Please define what you mean by "quality". This is a pretty slippery word, so it would be useful if you propose your definition. My own is: Quality in output or screen appearance is a combination of fidelity to originals, consistency with user expectations, and broad, bug-free support in the range of applications the user needs. Fact: Under my definition, the PostScript versions of printers generally provide higher quality halftones, fonts, and color support, and higher quality proofs (with respect to files intended for service bureaus) than their non-PostScript counterparts. This is true whether the PostScript RIP is built-in or is host-based. This is *not* a knock against GX, since there is no printer with GX built in, and since GX (according to its advocates) provides excellent PostScript support. Untested assertion, with some facts: Other software, including GX, could provide such "quality" features on a printer-by-printer, application-by-application, or system-wide basis. Other software, including GX, could provide more features, including typographically sophisticated fonts, transparency, etc, whether or not the output ends up on the screen, a PostScript printer, or a non-PostScript printer. These features might or might not be perceived by customers as providing better quality. These features might or might not be available in the range of applications the user wants to use. Opinion: GX does, in fact, provide some features which boost screen and output quality with respect to standard Quickdraw. Whether or not these features boost quality with respect to PostScript is an open question. Opinion: Quickdraw sans GX, with all its quirks and bugs, has required bastardized approaches to screen display and output with PostScript. This combination, treated as a "print architecture," certainly fails my quality test for application developers. A few years ago, it failed for end users too. Think of all the "Laserwriter wars" problems! Opinion: PostScript is much more powerful and attractive than Quickdraw, and DPS/PostScript would be a much cleaner system, but Quickdraw/PostScript is uglier and lower quality than GX/PostScript. I cannot speak for GX/<some other printer>. > Why not? That's the beauty of GX--that it *can* give you such high- > quality imaging on such low-cost hardware... The laser vendors are > being backed into a corner, and PostScript along with them. Hardly! Fact: PostScript RIPs are available for color inkjets from a number of Adobe OEMs, clone vendors, and, of course, as freeware. These are used every day to bring PostScript quality to low-cost engines. > Even Adobe now sees the writing on the wall, which is why it came > out with PrintGear. Bull! Fact: PrintGear drives low-cost printers with good quality output at high speed for competitive prices. This is no mean feat, and it is why PrintGear has won so many "best in class" awards. Its competition is Windows printers and low-end PCL printers, not PostScript (nor GX). Opinion: By my measure of quality, which includes a measure of broadness of support, neither GX nor PrintGear is as high quality as PostScript. PrintGear uses GDI as its "imaging model" with all the pluses and minuses that brings. PrintGear will not be able to "replace" PostScript or match its quality until there are drastic improvements in GDI. GX is limited to Macintosh systems and PrintGear to Win95. GX is also limited in the combination of apps and extensions you can use it with. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with these printing schemes, just that they are less universal and therefore less useful than PostScript. (Perhaps my definition of quality has too much emphasis on utility?) For a user who can live with their limitations, they provide great "bang for the buck"! > You don't need PostScript rasterization to be built into the > system for this--all you need is one tool for converting > PostScript to fully-editable GX format... Or a PostScript interpreter on your system (such as DPS). Fact: While DPS does not let you print at > 900 dpi by default, it certainly lets you generate PostScript files for export to a PostScript typesetter. All those "high quality" laser and inkjet engines you mentioned earlier as revolutionary for the desktop operate at < 900 dpi, so they are all legal, out of the box, on a DPS-based system. They still need printer-specific drivers, of course, to do communications and raster packing, just as any printer under GX does. > Well, it's better than slowing your machine down every time it > draws on the screen using Display PostScript, isn't it? :) This has already been debunked by others in this thread. > No, the GX graphics model is, in nearly every respect, a superset > of the Postcript one. Untested assertion (or opinion?): In terms of power of expression, the two models are about equal. GX wins in some areas (such as transparency, typographic richness), while PostScript wins in others (such as richness of control of color, halftoning, procedural definitions of graphics extensions). A more interesting question to me is: which missing features in each system do users (application writers and end users) need or want? Obviously, there are some for PostScript, which is one of the reasons for Level 3. Historical note: Lack of transparency and certain other features was tied up with CPU and memory limitations at the time PostScript was first released. Remember, at 300 dpi, a full page, 8-bit deep greyscale buffer is 8 Megabytes! The original Laserwriter had 1.5 Mb, into which we fitted the frame buffer, all downloaded fonts, stacks, caches, comm buffers, and all other temp storage. There was no disk to spill files onto and now powerful CPU to handle planar mapping and such. In today's PostScript systems, a large variety of compression/decompression filters, color conversion machinery, multi-byte font support, complex page device support, network support, etc are built into essentially every system. DPS skips some of the comm support but includes multiple private and shared graphics contexts, basic transparency, hit detection with tolerances on arbitrary shapes, and detailed coloring and halftone controls. There is a lot more to a PostScript system than just the imaging model! Opinion: I suspect that certain GX features are of great use to application designers, but the end user does not care whether good typographical support is in the application, and extension, or the OS. Same goes for PostScript. Some features of PostScript Level 2 are not widely supported (forms, user paths, device-independent color), and I'll bet the same would/will be true of GX if it gets wider adoption. > Yes they will! Remember, unlike PostScript, GX is not a > glorified printer-control language, it is a full graphics > and printing architecture. The printing architecture > includes support for things called "printer drivers", that > translate GX graphics into printer-specific commands to put > marks on the page. Opinion: This is sophistry! I could equally well assert that "PostScript is not a glorified imaging API, it is a full graphics and printing architecture." As soon as you slip into marketing fru-fru, you get *my* hackles up! If you specify what it is about PostScript that "limits" it to being a "glorified printer-control language" and what it is about GX that makes it a "full graphics and printing architecture," we could talk about this. As it is, you sound like a preacher evangelizing. > Most people would disagree. After all, in the Mac world, it has > been common for a long time to talk about "PostScript" printers > versus "QuickDraw" printers (basically, everything that wasn't >"PostScript"). Untested assertion: I agree with you that the language has been distorted, and you are right to talk about "GX printers". However, every "Quickdraw" printer (and, presumably, every "GX" printer) requires a driver to take the bits (or vectors or PostScript, from your description) and squirt them out a comm port to the printer in question. At the very least, such a driver has to return printer info to Quickdraw or QD/GX (including resolution, bit depth, color support, paper support, etc), control printer features, handle errors, and wrap the raw bits from GX with printer control code to tell the printer the width and depth of the bitmap. Where does such a driver come from? Presumably, Apple provides some and printer manufacturers provide others. Presumably, PostScript support is fairly universal in QD/GX. Are there drivers available in GX for all the popular printers? If GX were ported to Windows, who would write the drivers for hundreds of printers? Regards, Stephen Zisk
From: rlove@neosoft.com (Robert B. Love ) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NextStep/Apple... Date: 11 Jan 1997 17:32:42 GMT Organization: NeoSoft, Inc. Message-ID: <5b8irq$9mj@uuneo.neosoft.com> References: <5af43n$8bu@ralph.vnet.net> <32CB6B8F.4F69@soback.kornet.nm.kr> <32CB9495.75D4@gte.net> <32D31A61.5EB4@whitehouse.gov> <5b5ieb$8qv@uuneo.neosoft.com> <jcr.852971508@idiom.com> Cc: jcr@idiom.com In <jcr.852971508@idiom.com> John C. Randolph wrote: > > I've got thirteen years of code development experience under my belt, > Robert. Care to dismiss *my* opinion of Ada? Nah, I'll just tell you to take it to comp.lang.ada. Perhaps they've got time to waste with you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Love, rlove@neosoft.com (local) MIME & NeXT Mail OK rlove@raptor.rmnug.org (permanent) PGP key available ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: SoundChaser <soundchaser@velodrome.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.os.mach Subject: Re: OS Componenets of OpenStep for Mach Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:27:35 -0800 Organization: hmmm Message-ID: <32E1A2B7.385D@velodrome.com> References: <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon Tidswell wrote: > > [ Note Cross posts ] > > Ive failed to find any concrete details about which version of Mach, > NeXT is using. > Ive also seen reference to BSD4.4, presumably in reference to un*x tools > for OpenStep environment. > > Can anybody point me to references of what is (or is about to be) in use ? > > TIA > - JonT <jont@mpce.mq.edu.au> I believe it started life as Mach 2.0/2.1 and they added bits of 2.5 as they saw fit.
From: "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 18 Jan 97 20:50:17 -0800 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <AF06E8BC-101DD9@206.173.240.158> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.concentric.net/comp.sys.mac.system >>>Performas do have 16 bit processing compared to 32 for other NuBus >>>PowerMacs. >> >>What exactly do you mean by this? I'm fairly certain there isn't any major >>difference in bus, motherboard, RAM paging... between the 61xx performas >>and their x100 cousins. >> > I believe in some of the earlier Powermac Performas there was the difference that >the databus to the memory was only 32-bit rather than 64-bit wide. This accounts >for the apparent faster response of say a 8100/80 compared to a 6300/100. You >can also tell this is the case by the fact that the 6100/7100/8100 motherboards >required memory to be added in pairs of SIMMs (i.e. 2x32-bit address lines) whereas >the Performas would take single SIMMS. This may not be true on the top-of-line new >Performas like the 6400. > > Jack > Certainly Rhaposody _needs_the in-place customer base that owners of NuBus PowerMacs offer...for the 'NeXT' system to become established. Just as much as NuBus PowerMac owners require Rhaposody to develop the untapped potential of NuBus PowerMacs. Maybe the cut-off point for compatibility with Rhaposody is the early Performa - based on the 32-bit limitation. -Paul Prior to sending email, remove '.REMOVEthisToRespond' in the From field.
From: "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 18 Jan 97 20:50:51 -0800 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <AF06E8C3-101F7D@206.173.240.158> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.concentric.net/comp.sys.mac.system > I certainly don't expect Apple to spend *any* precious resources creating >a version of Rhapsody for 50,000 NeXT machines when many more PPC/NuBus Mac >owners are very concerned about the availability of Rhapsody for their >hardware. snip > >Art An open letter to Apple's leadership: ASAP thinking to solve financial problems does_not_get the intended results. Short-term cost-cutting puts the company's long term ability on thin ice [to attract new and maintain long-standing customers such as Nubus PowerMac owners]. My guess is that Apple has underestimated [not PowerMac unit demand again] but this time the strength of the in-place customer base. Nubus PowerMacs have a 40Mhz bus speed, L2 cache, RAM slots up to 72 Meg, and easily clock-chipped to 80hz. A good threshold for Rhapsody. Maintaining the loyal customer base has become the pivotal point [of Apple's survival] that hinges on the NuBus PowerMac decision. Promises of native code, muti-tasking, and protected memory were made [not only to sell product and solve the long-standing freezes, crashes and errors that have diminished and retarded NuBus PowerMacs' performance] but to herald a quantum leap that Copland manifested. It's folly for Apple to cause a tearing away of the fabric woven by developers and customers that helped this transition by not supporting NuBus PowerMacs with Rhapsody. Facing dwindling marketshare and developer support, Apple does have 1.8 billion in cash to make improvements with. Consider the future if Apple jettisons Nubus PowerMacs: 1] Lost revenue from no Rhapsody sales to Nubus PowerMacs owners. 2] Developers develop less for Rhapsody, sensing a diminished target market. 3] Given the juncture at no option but upgrading to PCI models, Nubus PowerMacs owners decide to leave Apple permanently and buy from some other Mac-compatible company. 4] Seeing Apple rid itself of valued customers, more Mac-compatible companies are created and prosper - at Apple's expense. All this happens if Apple antes her future and gambles away the NuBus PowerMac customers. - Paul Prior to sending email, remove '.REMOVEthisToRespond' in the From field.
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Cost of a NeXT Web Site? Date: 19 Jan 1997 04:52:37 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5bs9al$3pm@news.digifix.com> References: <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu> <5bo2s9$d3q@client3.news.psi.net> In-Reply-To: <5bo2s9$d3q@client3.news.psi.net> On 01/17/97, Tim Triemstra wrote: >In article <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu>, sugee@imap2.asu.edu wrote: >> >>I doubt that many advocates and customers like Chylser, CyberSlice, >>Nissan, and etc. as the list goes on, will argue about the merits of >>using NeXT's Web technologies for deploying their Web sites. We have all >>heard plenty and are proud of what is being accomplished. >> >>However, what I haven't heard anything about, something which curiously >>dawned on me recently and after reviewing what some of these folks are >>doing, is the cost of implementing and deploying these Web Sites. Can >>anybody provide approximate costs or actual figures of sites like these? >>I do respect people's anonymity. > >Sue, I think you would have to be looking at a developers' license (enterprise >as they are calling it now) for $5000 and the WebObjects product which will >run you around $25,000 from my memories :) I am not sure exactly what this >gets you because there are issues of linking to databases etc that could >require extra costs but I think that $30,000 will pretty much cover your >up-front costs. > This is mis-leading, and in some cases completely incorrect. WebObjects Lite is available free. Download it from NeXT's server. You can do ALOT with the Lite version. WebObjects Pro now includes a good amount of the functionality that was only available in WebObjects Enterprise. You have some database access, and compiled code. WebObjects Enterprise is the whole shebang, including stuff like custom objects in your database code, more database adaptors, etc... Also as I recall, WebObjects for NT is basically a single program, all that you need. It includes ProjectBuilder, WebObjects Builder, and the required compiler. Can someone from NeXT please confirm this? So the price comes down considerably... WOF Pro 3.0 is only $3,499 including a 3 day training course.. <URL:http://www.next.com:80/WebObjects/WOPro_Bundle.htmld/> -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Online NextStep Guide Date: 19 Jan 1997 04:53:56 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5bs9d4$3pn@news.digifix.com> References: <severine-1701970922510001@c6.itis.com> <5bpeac$944@news.platinum.com> In-Reply-To: <5bpeac$944@news.platinum.com> On 01/17/97, Gary W. Longsine wrote: >In <severine-1701970922510001@c6.itis.com> S. Roberts wrote: >> Hi, all. >> >> I've just become the proud new owner of a Turbo Color Slab, and I'm >> looking for _online_ users' guides/introductions/overviews that can help >> get me started. >> >> I'm not adverse to going and picking up a book, although the cheapest >> they seem to come is $30 and I'd like to get some docs that I can print >> out right away and use today. >> >> If you have any suggestions, please give me an email and/or post here. >> >> Thanks! > >All the NeXT documentation (i think) is now on-line at: >http://www.next.com > >The main archive of cool shareware/freeware/gplware/demoware is: >http://www.peak.org/ftp/pub/next/nextstep.html > >Other useful stuff: >http://www3.pair.com/mccarthy/nextstep/index.html >http://www.misckit.com/ And Stepwise http://www.stepwise.com/ There are also more sites listed on Stepwise -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: sanguish@digifix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.announce,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.bugs,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Resources on the Net Supersedes: <475852914532@digifix.com> Date: 19 Jan 1997 04:57:55 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <413853649874@digifix.com> Topics include: Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site eduSTEP WWW site NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site comp.sys.next newsgroups related newsgroups comp.sys.next newsgroups mailing list ftp sites NeXTanswers Stepwise NEXTSTEP/OpenStep Information WWW site =============================================== This online community resource includes - ISV company pages - ISV product descriptions - NEXTSTEP Developer Directory - NEXTSTEP Community WhitePages - Mailing List archives and information You can connect via the world wide web at: http://www.stepwise.com/ Suggestions or comments can be directed to me at sanguish@digifix.com If you would like to get your company and product information on Stepwise, please contact me at sanguish@digifix.com. eduSTEP WWW site ================ http://www.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/eduStep/ eduStep aims to provide up-to-date information on: - NextStep tools and projects for scientists. - Third-party products interesting for the educational and scientific community (with educational discounts noted, where they exist). - A listing of resellers and shops interested in working with customers in the educational community. - Conferences, meetings, workshops - Major projects, such as SciTools, EMBL's project to develop a NextStep scientific work environment - Status reports on GNUStep, a freely-available implementation of OpenStep now being developed NeXT Computer, Inc. WWW site ============================ http://www.next.com comp.sys.next.* newsgroups ========================== news:comp.sys.next.advocacy This is the "why NEXTSTEP is better (or worse) than anything else in the known universe" forum. It was created specifically to divert lengthy flame wars from .misc. news:comp.sys.next.announce Announcements of general interest to the NeXT community (new products, FTP submissions, user group meetings, commercial announcements etc.) This is a moderated newsgroup, meaning that you can't post to it directly. Submissions should be e-mailed to next-announce@digifix.com where the moderator (Scott Anguish) will screen them for suitability. Archives are available by ftp at ftp://ftp.stepwise.com/pub/Next_Announce_Archives Messages posted to announce should NOT be posted or crossposted to any other comp.sys.next groups. news:comp.sys.next.bugs A place to report verifiable bugs in NeXT-supplied software. Material e-mailed to Bug_NeXT@NeXT.COM is not published, so this is a place for the net community find out about problems when they're discovered. This newsgroup has a very poor signal/noise ratio--all too often bozos post stuff here that really belongs someplace else. It rarely makes sense to crosspost between this and other c.s.n.* newsgroups, but individual reports may be germane to certain non-NeXT- specific groups as well. news:comp.sys.next.hardware Discussions about NeXT-label hardware and compatible peripherals, and non-NeXT-produced hardware (e.g. Intel) that is compatible with NEXTSTEP. In most cases, questions about Intel hardware are better asked in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware. Questions about SCSI devices belong in comp.periphs.scsi. This isn't the place to buy or sell used NeXTs--that's what .marketplace is for. news:comp.sys.next.marketplace NeXT stuff for sale/wanted. Material posted here must not be crossposted to any other c.s.n.* newsgroup, but may be crossposted to misc.forsale.computers.workstation or appropriate regional newsgroups. news:comp.sys.next.misc For stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else. Anything you post here by definition doesn't belong anywhere else in c.s.n.*--i.e. no crossposting!!! news:comp.sys.next.programmer Questions and discussions of interest to NEXTSTEP programmers. This is primarily a forum for advanced technical material. Generic UNIX questions belong elsewhere (comp.unix.questions), although specific questions about NeXT's implementation or porting issues are appropriate here. Note that there are several other more "horizontal" newsgroups (comp.lang.objective-c, comp.lang.postscript, comp.os.mach, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, etc.) that may also be of interest. news:comp.sys.next.software This is a place to talk about [third party] software products that run on NEXTSTEP systems. news:comp.sys.next.sysadmin Stuff relating to NeXT system administration issues; in rare cases this will spill over into .programmer or .software. Related Newsgroups ================== news:comp.soft-sys.nextstep Like comp.sys.next.software and comp.sys.next.misc combined. Exists because NeXT is a software-only company now, and comp.soft-sys is for discussion of software systems with scope similar to NEXTSTEP. news:comp.lang.objective-c Technical talk about the Objective-C language. Implemetations discussed include NeXT, Gnu, Stepstone, etc. news:comp.object Technical talk about OOP in general. Lots of C++ discussion, but NeXT and Objective-C get quite a bit of attention. At times gets almost philosophical about objects, but then again OOP allows one to be a programmer/philosopher. (The original comp.sys.next no longer exists--do not attempt to post to it.) Exception to the crossposting restrictions: announcements of usenet RFDs or CFVs, when made by the news.announce.newgroups moderator, may be simultaneously crossposted to all c.s.n.* newsgroups. Getting the Newsgroups without getting News =========================================== Thanks to Michael Ross at antigone.com, the main NEXTSTEP groups are now available as a mailing list digest as well. next-nextstep next-advocacy next-announce next-bugs next-hardware next-marketplace next-misc next-programmer next-software next-sysadmin object lang-objective-c (For a full description, send mail to listserv@antigone.com). The subscription syntax is essentially the same as Majordomo's. To subscribe, send a message to *-request@lists.best.com saying: subscribe where * is the name of the list e.g. next-programmer-request@lists.best.com The ftp sites ============= ftp://ftp.next.peak.org - The main site for North American submissions formerly ftp.cs.orst.edu ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-muenchen.de: - (Peanuts) Located in Germany. ftp://ftp.dn.net/pub/next - Peanuts mirror in the US ftp://terra.stack.urc.tue.nl - (Dutch NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://cube.sm.dsi.unimi.it - (Italian NEXTSTEP User Group) ftp://ftp.nmr.embl-heidelberg.de/pub/next - eduStep ftp://ftp.next.com: - See below ftp.next.com and NextAnswers@next.com ===================================== [from the document ftp://ftp.next.com/pub/NeXTanswers/1000_Help] Welcome to the NeXTanswers information retrieval system! This system allows you to request online technical documents, drivers, and other software, which are then sent to you automatically. You can request documents by fax or Internet electronic mail, read them on the world-wide web, transfer them by anonymous ftp, or download them from the BBS. NeXTanswers is an automated retrieval system. Requests sent to it are answered electronically, and are not read or handled by a human being. NeXTanswers does not answer your questions or forward your requests. USING NEXTANSWERS BY E-MAIL To use NeXTanswers by Internet e-mail, send requests to nextanswers@next.com. Files are sent as NeXTmail attachments by default; you can request they be sent as ASCII text files instead. To request a file, include that file's ID number in the Subject line or the body of the message. You can request several files in a single message. You can also include commands in the Subject line or the body of the message. These commands affect the way that files you request are sent: ASCII causes the requested files to be sent as ASCII text SPLIT splits large files into 95KB chunks, using the MIME Message/Partial specification REPLY-TO address sets the e-mail address NeXTanswers uses These commands return information about the NeXTanswers system: HELP returns this help file INDEX returns the list of all available files INDEX BY DATE returns the list of files, sorted newest to oldest SEARCH keywords lists all files that contain all the keywords you list (ignoring capitalization) For example, a message with the following Subject line requests three files: Subject: 2101 2234 1109 A message with this body requests the same three files be sent as ASCII text files: 2101 2234 1109 ascii This message requests two lists of files, one for each search: Subject: SEARCH Dell SCSI SEARCH NetInfo domain NeXTanswers will reply to the address in your From: line. To use a different address either set your Reply-To: line, or use the NeXTanswers command REPLY-TO If you have any problem with the system or suggestions for improvement, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY FAX To use NeXTanswers by fax, call (415) 780-3990 from a touch-tone phone and follow the instructions. You'll be asked for your fax number, a number to identify your fax (like your phone extension or office number), and the ID numbers of the files you want. You can also request a list of available files. When you finish entering the file numbers, end the call and the files will be faxed to you. If you have problems using this fax system, please call Technical Support at 1-800-848-6398. You cannot use the fax system outside the U.S & Canada. USING NEXTANSWERS VIA THE WORLD-WIDE WEB To use NeXTanswers via the Internet World-Wide Web connect to NeXT's web server at URL http://www.next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY ANONYMOUS FTP To use NeXTanswers by Internet anonymous FTP, connect to FTP.NEXT.COM and read the help file pub/NeXTanswers/README. If you have problems using this, please send mail to nextanswers-request@next.com. USING NEXTANSWERS BY MODEM To use NeXTanswers via modem call the NeXTanswers BBS at (415) 780-2965. Log in as the user "guest", and enter the Files section. From there you can download NeXTanswers documents. FOR MORE HELP... If you need technical support for NEXTSTEP beyond the information available from NeXTanswers, call the Support Hotline at 1-800-955-NeXT (outside the U.S. call +1-415-424-8500) to speak to a NEXTSTEP Technical Support Technician. If your site has a NeXT support contract, your site's support contact must make this call to the hotline. Otherwise, hotline support is on a pay-per-call basis. Thanks for using NeXTanswers! _________________________________________________________________ Written by: Eric P. Scott ( eps@toaster.SFSU.EDU ) and Scott Anguish ( sanguish@digifix.com ) Additions from: Greg Anderson ( Greg_Anderson@afs.com ) Michael Pizolato ( alf@epix.net ) Dan Grillo ( dan_grillo@next.com )
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:22:24 -0500 Organization: Netcom Distribution: world Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001101971022240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <rex-ya023080001001971844410001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b7lg2$i1m$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5b7lg2$i1m$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>, marcel@sysyem.de wrote: )This is absolutely silly. Nobody in his right mind would do pixel-wise )transparency computations in PostScript. Exactly. Which is why some of GX's coolest features can't be directly implemented in DPS. It just doesn't make sense. Furthermore the fact that DPS' transparency features were implemented directly in the interpreter instead of via the Appkit, means it doesn't really make sense for the Appkit to handle a lot of GX's features either. )Yes, progamming 3D graphics engines or relational database systems )in PostScript would be silly. What is your point? Apple's execs are making a really stupid decision by trying to graft GX's features into DPS and OpenStep. It's just far too much work, and there isn't any real gain over just porting GX to the system. No matter how they go about it, the users and developers are just going to get a kludgy and slow system. My feeling is that if both DPS and GX are well-tested and optimized, port them both to Rhapsody, and let them have equal access to the screen. GX does have a definite advantage in that a small GUI toolkit coud be quickly written on top of it that would run under both Rhapsody and Sys. 7.x allowing developers to make 'yellow box' apps that could still run under Sys 7.x unchanged. This would mean more native Rhapsody apps in less time than any option Apple is suggesting. From the Apple engineers I've talked to, this was a very feasible plan, sure the apps would be somewhat limited in their functionality, only having access to a small subset of the appkit's and Sys. 7.x's features, but at least they could work under both. GX has to be used because Quickdraw is too unsafe of an API and there's no 7.x implementation of DPS. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:26:56 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001101971026560001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <rex-ya023080001001971844410001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5b7lg2$i1m$1@brachio.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE> <jcr.852984500@idiom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <jcr.852984500@idiom.com>, jcr@idiom.com (John C. Randolph) wrote: )And in DPS, we don't have to. There's a 'composite' operator, which )invokes DPS's transparency feature. Yep, but there are no hue transfer or saturation adjustment modifiers, or any of the other millions of possible GX transfer modes. Transparency and alpha compositing are some of the simpler transfer modes ;) )Something to keep in mind abut interpreted languages, is that the )interpreters can contain very well-optimized operators. APL was )interpreted, but its matrix multiplication and dot-product code was )better than the FORTRAN code that many other programmers wrote. Oh definitely, but correct me if I'm wrong DPS is not optimized for 5x4 matrices, i.e. one would have to add new operators which could destabilize it by introducing bugs as well as make more unprintable DPS effects. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: warnerr@beethoven.cs.colostate.edu ( richard warner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: So what do I need to catch the Apple/Next wave?? Date: 18 Jan 1997 22:23:53 GMT Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523 Message-ID: <5brihp$1hti@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> Hi all - I have the NEXTSTEP 3.3 Developer system. A proud owner of a Color NEXTSTATION - until just recently prepping to buy high-end laptop (six solid years from the NEXT, not bad). Had pretty well given up on NEXT *gasp* until the big news. WOOHOO!! LIFE. Way to go Stevey. So now I'm wondering, can I load NS on the laptop and then load Win/95 under it to access my office productivity stuff - or should I get the SoftPC emulator? What do I need to do/can I get both NS and Win/95 on the same box, preferably Win/95 running in a window under NS. Another line of questions has to do with development. NEXTSTEP native vs OPENSTEP. Is there an OPENSTEP developer product for Intel boxes and do I want it instead of NS native? Is it the product that has a future?? Another line of questioning - is NS 3.3 Developer the latest/greatest still for Intel boxes (if OPENSTEP is the way to go - which version?). Lastly, a RFO (Request For Opinions) as to which is better as of today: Buy a new Intel box and put NS/OPENSTEP on it - or wait to purchase until some hot Apple/NEXT combo hits the market. Of particular interest to me is in the realm of laptops, but also interested in opinions generally. Look forward to hearing all the opinions on this hot topic. Feel free to email me directly at rwarner@prv.com - will summarize to the net. Rich
From: franket@mindspring.com (Frank Taylor) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:44:51 -0600 Organization: not much Message-ID: <franket-ya02408000R1901970044510001@news.mindspring.com> References: <AF06E8BC-101DD9@206.173.240.158> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Macintosh Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <AF06E8BC-101DD9@206.173.240.158>, "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> wrote: -> Certainly Rhaposody _needs_the in-place customer base that owners of NuBus -> PowerMacs offer...for the 'NeXT' system to become established. Just as much -> as NuBus PowerMac owners require Rhaposody to develop the untapped -> potential of NuBus PowerMacs. -> -> Maybe the cut-off point for compatibility with Rhaposody is the early -> Performa - based on the 32-bit limitation. -> -> -Paul ----------------------------------------------------- You finally seem to be pleased with something. It's OK for someone to get left out as long as it's not you. Early Performa owners can't even get their logic boards replaced and you've been crying because you might not be able to run the new operating system. You use up a lot more space in these newsgroups than the people who have real unresolved problems. -- Frank Taylor <mailto:franket@mindspring.com>
From: hill@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (David Hill) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Disappearing disk space Date: 19 Jan 1997 07:30:29 GMT Organization: University of Calgary CPSC Message-ID: <5bsiil$gcm@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> Summary: After defragging DOS SCSI disk, NSFIP saw 117 MB instead of 650MB Keywords: missing disk space, defragging, NSFIP Wishing to copy a large file from a NeXT formatted SCSI disk to a DOS SCSI disk, while running NSFIP, I decided to go back into DOS, defrag the disk, and then go back into NeXTSTEP and do the transfer. When I did this, the free space had dropped from 650 MB to 117 MB on the DOS disk. DOS was convinced there was still 650 MB on the disk. NSFIP saw the 117 MB and refused to transfer the file. I remember vaguely similar problems being posted a year or more ago. I checked NeXT Answers, but can find no mention of the problem. Anyone out there know of this problem and have a solution. I'd greatly appreciate hearing from you. Please send email and I'll summarise for the newsgroups. Many thanks. david -- David R. Hill, CS & Psych Depts., U. Calgary | Imagination is more Calgary, AB, Canada T2N 1N4 Ph: 604-947-9362 | important than knowledge. hill@cpsc.ucalgary.ca OR david@firethorne.com| (Albert Einstein) http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~hill (^NeXTMail)| Kill your television!
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 11 Jan 1997 11:33:03 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Every <dke@adnc.com> said: [my question: why DPS?] >It depends.... if GX is only 105% of Bravo - then it is not worth >Apples investements. It has to be 200% better (and marketably so) to >be worth all the effort. > So WHERE is Bravo? The latest that I have heard is that Bravo is no more and that the project lead quit. >Also what can Apple get out of Adobe?!? If Apple comits to using a new >Bravo-Based (PS3?) and get in their needed technologies (color >matching, better font capabilities, etc.) and get adobe to swear undieing allegence to >Apple and Rhapsody and create apps for them... and >Apple can counter license their technologies back to Adobe (for >reducing/eliminating the licensing costs to them) - then it is >probably in Apples best interests - despite a functional loss. > Balance this with what Apple is losing: GX is already part of System 7. It is resolution independent. It is far more optimized, in principle, than DPS can possibly ever be. By forsaking GX, Apple is forsaking a technology that could be used to bridge between System 7 and Rhapsody. Is abandoning THIS worth what Apple might get from Adobe? >I think GX is a superior technology - especially with an object based >graphics instead of procedure based stream.... but is it enough better >that Apple should not standardize more and be seen as a team player - >and get what they want? I don't think so. > Better isn't the only measure: if it were, than everyone would have been using the Mac years ago. Apple has to satisfy the installed base of developers as well as the installed base of customers. They've announced a way of bridging System 7 with Rhapsody for users, but not for developers. GX could be the "Blue Box" for developers that want to have full-fledged Rhapsody apps that work under System 7. Apparently this issue of developer-satisfaction hasn't occured to Apple. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rumor has it that, after Microsoft CEO Bill Gates, the largest set of investors in Microsoft stock is the Board of Directors of Apple Computer -this explains everything ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 11 Jan 1997 07:23:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AEFCF38D-173F2@198.68.42.136> References: <rex-ya023080001101970013240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric King <rex@mit.edu> said: >What Apple should be working >full steam ahead on is a simplified API that provides most of the common >GUI elements and system functions and runs unmodified on Sys. 7.x and in >the 'yellow box' As was hashed out in the AIMED talk mailing list, GX >provided a clean and simple way of doing this if GX Graphics was supported >in Rhapsody. (DPS need not be affected or changed at all.) Now even that >option may no longer be viable. My suggestion of implementing GX as an aside to DPS (via an escape code in the byte-stream) would provide the basic element for a common API between both System 7 and Rhapsody. A Rhapsody-specific API could be added on to GX that would basically create a DPS-based window under Rhapsody and a QD-based window under System 7. An "app kit" of some kind (not necessarily equivalent to the OpenStep ones, but it might be if Obj-C were ported back to System 7) would provide the framework for creating an app using the GX APIs that would be source-code compatible under both OS's. Apple would have to fix the GX printing incompatibilities, but that likely will be less expensive than the loss of marketshare that will result if there is NO cross-platform portability between System 7 and Rhapsody. I REALLY hate this apparent deal where Apple gives Adobe GX typography in exchange for a reduction in royalty costs (at least I *hope* that they are getting some kind of discount!). I can see why they would have to do this, but by gawd, it sure leaves a nasty taste... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any sufficiently advanced magic will be indistinguishable from technology -my corollary to Clarke's Law (AFAIK Mercedes Lackey got it from me at a World Fantasy Convention) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nurban@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Nathan M. Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep - OS or environment? Date: 19 Jan 1997 03:14:27 -0500 Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Message-ID: <5bsl53$mc2@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> References: <853364334.28236@dejanews.com> In article <853364334.28236@dejanews.com>, poundmacvits@hotmail.com wrote: > The media has been making a number of confusing and contradictory claims > about what OpenStep is and I hope someone can settle a few things for me. Sure. > First of all I had initially understood that OpenStep was the former > NeXTStep operating system that used the Mach (2.5?) microkernal and which > had been ported to just about every major cpu around. The former NEXTSTEP operating system was renamed "OPENSTEP for Mach" starting with version 4.0. As you say, it uses Mach 2.5 and has been ported to many CPUs. NeXT uses capitalization to make a distinction.. "OpenStep" refers to the cross-platform OpenStep API specification. OPENSTEP refers to an implementation of that specification, such as OPENSTEP for Mach or OPENSTEP/NT. To quote one of their manuals: "`OPENSTEP' refers to the software product. `OpenStep' refers to the standard or specification on which the product is based, and by extension to the concepts expressed by the specification." > I also thought that > OpenStep Enterprise was an application development environment that let > developers create applications that would run on different operating > system systems, such as Solaris or WindowsNT, providing that they had the > OpenStep APIs. OPENSTEP Enterprise is the OpenStep user and development environment for Windows NT. It lets you create applications that will run on different OpenStep implementations, as will any other NeXT OpenStep implementation. However, I don't think that a NeXT development environment will produce binaries for Sun's Solaris implementation of OpenStep; I think you need to compile your application under their implementation for that. (Though you don't need to alter your source code.) > However now I read reports (mostly from macuser) that suggest that > OpenStep is simply a layer that can be placed on different operating > systems, such as a WindowsNT system (kernal). Yes, that's what OpenStep is intended to be. > If this is true then its > not necessary to 'port' OpenStep to other CPU's, such as a pentium, > because it'll already run on the OS, eg, solaris. That should be true.. for example, OPENSTEP Enterprise should be able to work on Windows NT on Intel or on an Alpha if it were so compiled. (Though they don't have an Alpha version.) In practice, at least. I don't know if NeXT's implementation of OpenStep makes any CPU-dependent assumptions for reasons of efficiency. Of course, whether they do or not doesn't matter to the user or developer, since they just work through the platform-independent OpenStep API. The big issue here is porting OPENSTEP for Mach, which is the OpenStep layer on top of a Mach-based operating system, to the PowerPC. Porting the OpenStep layer is not the problem; porting the operating system upon which it resides is. -- Nathan Urban | nurban@vt.edu | Undergrad {CS,Physics,Math} | Virginia Tech
From: pete@ohm.york.ac.uk (-bat.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Porting NextStep apps to OpenStep Date: 19 Jan 1997 00:54:59 GMT Organization: The University of York, UK Message-ID: <5brrd3$7h6@netty.york.ac.uk> References: <5b38au$n9q@madmax.mathworks.com> william@mathworks.com (William York) writes: > > What is involved in taking existing NeXTStep Apps and migrating them > to OpenStep for Sparc? > > Is it "just a recompile"? No, it's a right f**king pain in the arse. There are some tools to semi-automate the conversion, but it's still a lot of work. -bat.
From: aris@next.com (Aris Colp) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Mac->NeXTstation->printer Followup-To: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc Date: 11 Jan 1997 09:32:16 GMT Organization: NeXT Software Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5b7mn0$jin@news.next.com> References: <jak-ya023680003112960101170001@news.asu.edu> You can run CAP on the NeXTstation. It will make part of your hard disk (all of it if you want) into an Appleshare volume and export your printer as a MacIntosh printer. CAP is however a little difficult to configure - from memory about 2 years ago, but this may have changed. It is also free. A. PS: The computer science department at Melbourne University in Australia used to develop some part of CAP - you can get something from the URL: ftp://ftp.cs.mu.oz.au/mac/ John Kestner (jak@asu.edu) wrote: : If I have a Mac and a NeXTstation networked together, is it possible to : print from the Mac to a NeXT laser printer hooked up to the NeXTstation? Or : is there any other way to get from the Mac to the NeXT printer? : : Any help is much appreciated. : : john : : --- - ------- ------- : You're not going crazy, you're going sane in a crazy world! - The Tick : : jak@asu.edu : http://www.public.asu.edu/~jkestner/ -- Aris Colp (ALL OPINIONS ARE MY OWN) NeXT Technical Support (I DO NOT SPEAK FOR NeXT Software Inc.) aris@next.com; +1-415-780-3712; http://www.next.com/~aris
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:14:32 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > Not in the PPC version, I believe that's just a 'normal' shared library. Uhhhh, you sure about that? How does the lib onto a shared screen without a sys call? The lib sure, the screen handler? > The Copland version is definitely a shared library. Copeland 0 (the only version to be "released") didn't have GX. > Not when there's no standard object format or ORB. SOM doesn't work with > a lot of languages on the Mac. That's a problem, not a feature. This is the idea behind NeXTStep after all. > conventions makes it much easier to interface with other languages. Cuts > down overhead too. The later is arguable in some cases and downright not true in most. As to the former, you're right, again though, that's a bug, not a feature. > For most things, the overhead of the byte-code interpreter would > probably not be noticeable at all in a fast system, however the > optimizations stemming from advanced GX's retained mode display > architecture would be. DPS could be programmed to keep track of everything > that GX does (it is a language after all) but the memory bloat and 20-40x > speed hit would probably dissuade users and developers from using such a > system. I doubt the later too numbers have anything to do with reality, unless you can point to specific examples where this has been tried in the past. OpenGL's object wrappers (forget the name) was about the same size (or less than) OpenGL itself and didn't slow the system down at all, a good counterexample in my books. > The problem is that using DPS for everything would create a huge > performance bottleneck for some applications, in addition to making some > things *much* harder for developers to program. Much harder than what? GX? Not a single app I have uses it, and DPS is no harder to use than QD. Maury
From: Chris Whatley <cwhatley@next.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep/NT and OpenStep/Mach applications Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:34:10 -0500 Organization: NeXT Software Inc. Message-ID: <32E37452.FB8@next.com> References: <jchan-ya023580001901972238540001@news.apk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerome Chan wrote: > > Can the same source be used to compile binaries for both OpenStep/NT and > OpenStep/Mach without any #ifdefs? If your code is based entirely upon some combination of Foundation, EOF and AppKit frameworks, this is 99% true. In my last consulting engagement, we had a 200k line project that built on both. The only ifdefs were to change the default colors of some UI elements and a bit of initialization code in our main.m. Chris Whatley cwhatley@next.com NeXT Software Object Experts
From: Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep/NT and OpenStep/Mach applications Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:18:19 -0500 Organization: Demiurge Development Group Message-ID: <32E4519B.62DF@friday.com> References: <jchan-ya023580001901972238540001@news.apk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerome Chan wrote: > > Can the same source be used to compile binaries for both OpenStep/NT and > OpenStep/Mach without any #ifdefs? For the most part, yes-- typically the only difference is an automatically generated reference to some symbol in the various NT DLLs such that NT will 'get the loading right' for Objective-C classes (apparently, ObjC is just a bit too dynamic for NT's dynamic linker). Other than that, code that sticks with the OpenStep API will compile fine under both environments. NT is rumored to have some level of POSIX support? If this is true, then apps that are implemented against the POSIX API will re-compile with a bit of effort. b.bum
From: afagha01@popmail.med.nyu.edu (Arman Afagh) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:55:15 -0400 Organization: New York University School of Medicine Message-ID: <afagha01-ya02408000R1301971255150001@netnews.nyu.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3>, "Ken Schrock" <kens@cannet.com> wrote: >Dave L. <lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY> wrote in article ><lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca>... > >> I think that most Mac users would want to stay with Apple. > >Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? Ken, It's because most current consumer computer buyers are buying a computer for the first time. And when they go into store X, they're going to see 20 new wintel machines and 4 new Macs. They use Wintel at work, whatever. They're more likely to buy Wintel. So, although most (almost all?) Mac users continue to buy Macintoshes when they upgrade (I myself am on my third, and have no desire to buy anything but Mac), so many more *clueless* newbies are buying Wintel that the Apple market share is proportionately less, even though in numbers, more Mac OS machines may be being sold than at any time before. ARman. \\\|/// \\ - - // ( @ @ ) +-----------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------------------+ | Arman Afagh New York University | | afagha01@popmail.med.nyu.edu School of Medicine | | http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~aafagh Class of 1999 | | | | "Intel Inside": | | The world's most widely used warning label. | +--------------------------------Oooo----------------------+ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <eric@pooh.cdrom.com> Message-ID: <9701201813.AA02113@nebula.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.0 v146.2) j%q;6~]olIY<I\1zLJ.~]53@+A]/}";bKMKAoA3DJn"3Ur/iVngM_b8?1=WhD(,C\OQ`!N PGO6e04/E9[ec6sDuxxB From: Eric Tremblay <eric@cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 10:13:43 -0800 Subject: Developing Business Applications With Openstep BOOK Cc: comp-sys-next-programmer@antigone.com I just got a great OpenStep book called Developing Business Applications With Openstep; Peter Clark, N. Gervae; Paperback; $39.95 It's really nice. I did not read it yet but I'm sure glad I bought it. It's available from http://www.amazon.com/ do a "OPENSTEP" keyword search. Or on the phone at 1-800-SPRINGE. BTW: I have no connection with any of the above. I just bought the book and thought it was really nice and would useful for other people out there. Eric "E.T." Tremblay Walnut Creek CDROM (Publisher's of the Nebula Quad-Fat CDROM and eric@cdrom.com Font Garden for NEXTSTEP book/CDROM.)
From: cybobob@mindspring.com (Nick Sharpe) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Is OpenStep capable of supporting games? Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:23:35 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: <32e44462.6837969@news.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just wondering if OpenStep was designed to support games? Like, can there be Quake for OpenStep? Thanks a lot. Nick
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:42:18 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001301971942180001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <maury-0901971256080001@199.166.204.230> <AEFA999B-9FACF@198.68.42.247> <maury-0901971639110001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001970235060001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001001972018070001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32D6F5D9.4497@ozemail.com.au> <rex-ya023080001101970013240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1301971300050001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <maury-1301971300050001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: ) I couldn't disagree more. The NeXT is far easier to develop for than )NT, MFC is basically a MacApp/TCL type deep object library that gets )compiled into your code. Unfortunately if Apple's current plan goes through, Rhapsody's going to represent a fairly small portion of the Mac market. ) I think they should instead do a 68040 port. Considering that they're considering scrapping Nubus PowerMac support for the initial versions, I *seriously* doubt they'd do an '040 port. A simplified 7.x and Rhapsody API would serve developers better because they'll be able to get some new features that they've been craving without tossing everything else out. sure Rhapsody apps might only take a tenth of the time to develop, but if there's only a twentieth or thirtieth of the market running it, it's not exactly a worthwhile venture. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:04:00 -0500 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001301972004000001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <AEFD7E24-40A8A@207.158.13.54> <rex-ya023080001201971135220001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5bclc3$bk0@duke.squonk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5bclc3$bk0@duke.squonk.net>, Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: )rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: )> OpenDOC integration's definitely going to be a sticky thing. )> Apple's *not* going to abandon that technology, yet its going to )> be hard gafting it into the Appkit. GX could ease things because )> its a much much closer fit for the ODF than Postscript. (Just )> about every ODF GUI structure has a direct GX analog, and they're )> referenced in exactly the same way.) ) )My guess is that it won't be all that hard figuring out how to )get OpenDoc working under Rhapsody. It'll probably 'work' in the 'Blue Box' but it's outside of it that's tricky. Right now the ODF uses QD or GX to do its imaging. Having the GX libraries floating around in the 'Yellow Box' for processes to use would certainly ease the ODF port. Classic Quickdraw calls don't exactly translate into Postscript that easily, nor is Classic Quickdraw something that you'd want developers to continue using in the 'Yellow Box'. How they implement SOM and Bento support in the Appkit should be *really* interesting. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: leonvs@occam.com (Leon von Stauber) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy Date: 21 Jan 1997 12:42:47 GMT Organization: Occam's Razor Message-ID: <5c2dk7$gl4@hackberry.zilker.net> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> Cc: zxeses@zapcom.stop.spam.net NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.MAC.ADVOCACY In <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> Zxeses wrote: > >Apple keeps 96-98% of their users. And this figure is based on...? >The problem comes in that the growth >rate is probably around 4-6% also, so it' s a wash. > >In other words, there are no MORE Apple Sales, but no less either. The >computer industry is growing, therefore apple's "share" of this pie keeps >getting smaller, but not so many less buyers/users. Well, that's not quite true. There are quite a few companies which actively eliminate Macs from their organizations in favor of PCs. (I have, unfortunately, had first-hand experience with a few of these.) ____________________________________________________________________ Leon von Stauber http://www.occam.com/leonvs/ Occam's Razor, Game Designer <leonvs@occam.com> PSW Technologies, System Administrator <leonvs@pswtech.com> MIDS, Web Developer <leonvs@mids.org> "We have not come to save you, but you will not die in vain!"
From: scottm@nic.com (Scott Maxwell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 04:25:17 -0500 Organization: PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals) Message-ID: <scottm-ya02408000R1401970425180001@news.erols.com> References: <32C35695.4F88@erols.com> <59vlfv$cb6@news3.digex.net> <marke-2712961142210001@ip033.mu2.nwlink.com> <32C43525.1FD2@exnext.com> <scottm-ya02408000R2712962358350001@news.erols.com> <ldo-2912961312460001@ldo.slip.waikato.ac.nz> <32C644B8.922@exnext.com> <rex-ya023080002912961035040001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5a748h$ch6@news3.digex.net> <rex-ya023080003012960458010001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5abr86$mk9@news4.digex.net> <rex-ya023080000101971935240001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <marke-0101972347070001@port55.an <remedies-0601970003220001@den-co12-26.ix.netcom.com> <5arof0$b0o@news.digifix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5arof0$b0o@news.digifix.com>, sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) wrote: > Why does it have to be one way or the other for you people? > It doesn't. Personally I'd like to see an implementation of both systems. -- -------------------------------- Scott Maxwell - scottm@nic.com "We are a fact-gathering organization only... the minute the FBI begins making recommendations on what should be done with its information, it becomes a Gestapo." -- J. Edgar Hoover
From: Tim Young <pwilso39@mail.icon.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:43:30 -0500 Organization: (ICON) InterConnect Online, Inc. Message-ID: <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Weintz wrote: > > ChristianSchildwaechter wrote: > : In Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) comp.sys.next.misc <ArticleDisplayer: 0x1644c8> writes, > > : Seems to make some sense this way. You wouldn't use Nextstep for 3D development, there is near to no software, you wouldn't wish to develop under Irix either. > Actually, NEXTSTEP is pretty darned good for 3D development, at least for > non-realtime work. The company just upgraded my workstation to a P6 with 64MB > of RAM and a beefy graphics card; solidThinking's QuickRenderMan displays are > now as nimble as Alias PowerAnimator 7.0 on an Indigo^2 Extreme. I routinely > create animations as good or better than what I made at the Beckman VizLab. > > -- > Steve Weintz Speaking of 3D games... I wonder if anyone out there remembers or even knows that the best selling 3D game of all time was developed using NeXT computers. That game was DOOM. MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name!
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:52:44 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1301971552450001@ctsasync51.cc.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <lewisda-ya023580001301970205390001@news.dal.ca> In article <lewisda-ya023580001301970205390001@news.dal.ca>, lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote: > "Ken Schrock" <kens@cannet.com> wrote: > > > Dave L. <lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY> wrote in article > > > I think that most Mac users would want to stay with Apple. > > > > Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? > > That's easy... fear mongering. I'll agree with that in part. But a large part is Apple's own fault. By this I mean the endless delays in bringing out a modern OS, broken promises, technology dead ends. Many people are perceiving (rightly in my opinion) that the many advantages that the Mac once had are diminishing. It is no longer clear cut who has the best system. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Is OpenStep capable of supporting games? Date: 21 Jan 1997 15:01:35 GMT Organization: Bull AG, Langen Message-ID: <5c2lof$357@www.langen.bull.de> References: <32e44462.6837969@news.mindspring.com> Cc: cybobob@mindspring.com In <32e44462.6837969@news.mindspring.com> Nick Sharpe wrote: > I was just wondering if OpenStep was designed to support games? Like, > can there be Quake for OpenStep? There isDoom and Doom II for Openstep/Mach. Runs on Motorola, Intel and Sparc as a fat binary. Runs quite quickly, not quite as quickly as on DOS, but enough. In a window, of course. There is the possibility to poke a hole in the windowserver and access the framebuffer directly. It's called "Interceptor" and the API is not publicly disclosed, although some companies do seem to have the API. NeXTIME uses Interceptor. BTW Doom was developed on NeXTSTEP.
From: "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: 14 Jan 1997 08:18:01 -0700 Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet Message-ID: <AF00F4DB-4F859@198.68.42.175> References: <5bg2e0$ar2@bignews.shef.ac.uk> nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.misc, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.system, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.mac.advocacy, nntp://news.primenet.com/comp.sys.next.advocacy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mmalcolm crawford <m.crawford@shef.ac.uk> said: > >On 01/14/97, Eric King wrote: >> True, but some of GX's features like its printing and caching >> architecture or its transfer modes can't be added over DPS without a hell >> of a lot of work. For me since I'm writing custom UI widgets, GX's hit >> testing functions are a very crucial and powerful feature. I'm not even >> sure if a general hit testing solution is possible in Postscript given its >> language basis. >> >Umm, so how do I click on things in the DPS GUI? > >Read the Adobe Purple book, pp67, 135, 138-41, 141-45. That's hardly an answer, since most of us don't have access to the Adobe Purple book. Why don't you give us a summary, instead? --------------------------------------------------- Apple is a company, but Macintosh is a community. -S.M. King ---------------------------------------------------
From: Vlod Kalicun <Vlod-KWR.Kalicun@ubs.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:44:17 +0000 Organization: Union Bank of Switzerland Message-ID: <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <mazulauf-1501970100320001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <wmrLSKW00WBLI_Bf0q@andrew.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Alfonso Visconti wrote: > But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it > is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland > does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said > they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died. > It was my impression that parts of copland would be incorporated into rapsody. There is a LOT of cool stuff in copland! Theres no reason for them not to drop the Mach kernal and use the one in Copland. -vlod
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: 21 Jan 1997 17:33:34 GMT Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Cc: pwilso39@mail.icon.net In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might could get the cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial ;-) Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac (sort of a play on "The NeXT Computer" [original name of the next cube]) ... anyone else? -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com http://www.cygnus.com/~jrudd =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Smalltalk == Astronaut's tools. Awkward at first, but exceptional design C++ == A hammer. A SLEDGEHAMMER. Not cast metal, a big rock on a stick.
From: jon@mgmt.purdue.edu (Jon Haveman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 21 Jan 1997 18:12:33 GMT Organization: Purdue University Message-ID: <5c30uh$pv7@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> References: <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> Vlod Kalicun <Vlod-KWR.Kalicun@ubs.com> writes > Theres no reason for them not to drop the Mach kernal and use the one > in Copland. Yes there is. They promised to ship the thing in ONE YEAR. -- Jon Haveman
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:21:06 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971932260001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> In article <rex-ya023080001301971932260001@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, rex@mit.edu (Eric King) wrote: > At least it can be installed on 75% or more of the systems out their. > DPS can not. Why? > Also how much memory does the DPS interpreter take up? Dunno, but it's running on a paged OS, so it's of little concern. > Why? That's totally unnecessary. If anything all that would need to be > done is implement some GX alternatives. i.e. you'd have a standard DPS text > object and a GX text object. Both should be useable in the same window. > When printing the Postscript code generated from the GX objects in a window > would be sent along with the DPS code. So how are you going to handle windows that want one, the other, or both? It's back to DPS. > No, develop a *modest* toolkit under and for Sys. 7.x then port that to > the Rhapsody appkit. The smart developer would model the widgets and > structure of the toolkit such that mapping its widgets to Rhapsody widgets > would be fairly painless. So we get a system in which if you want portability you sacrifice functionality. Uhhh, that's why they _dropped_ Copeland, remember? > 7.6 installs OpenDOC by default, talk about OS bloat... GX only needs > ~1MB. ~350k with VM. Yes, but only if it's running. GX always runs if it's installed. And as soon as you print, that jumps to about 2 meg. > We're not talking about something that would serve the needs of every > developer, just those with small to medium size apps and who would benefit > from having a Rhapsody native version of their app that also ran on older > systems. Which OpenStep already does. > I doubt Apple even has the docs necessary to do such a port. NeXT does, they used to run on 040's. Maury
From: Gregory Pacholczyk <gpacho1@gl.umbc.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: using modem through terminal Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:08:23 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Message-ID: <32E50617.1DC8@gl.umbc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-User: gpacho1 i just bought an 040 25 cube and a modem. how do i dial into my ISP through terminal. ie. how do i issue the ATDT ###-#### command) -Greg
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: allan@ali.bc.ca (Allan Noordvyk) Subject: Re: using modem through terminal Message-ID: <E4DKoA.Lp@gateway.ali.bc.ca> Sender: nobody@gateway.ali.bc.ca Cc: gpacho1@gl.umbc.edu Organization: A.L.I. Technologies, Inc. Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:24:09 GMT References: <32E50617.1DC8@gl.umbc.edu> In comp.sys.next.misc Gregory Pacholczyk wrote: > i just bought an 040 25 cube and a modem. how do i dial into my ISP > through terminal. ie. how do i issue the ATDT ###-#### command) You want to use the tip command. You can find out more via "man tip", but here's the basics: If you have a 14.4 modem on serial port A, you will probably want to add the following lines to your /etc/remote file: fast|cufa19200|Dial-out on cufa at top speed (currently 19200 baud):\ :dv=/dev/cufa:br#19200:tc=BASIC: You would then type the command: tip fast and then you would have a direct connection to your modem at 19200 baud rate (faster than 14.4 so that you can handle bursts of data which uncompresses at a faster effective rate than 14.4). At this point you should type your AT command. If you want a nice GUI for handling of this (as well as zmodem file transfers, etc.) you might want to purchase TipTop.app from Tip Top software. If you want to do more than have a terminal window into your ISP (ie. you would like surf the web) you should ask about setting up a PPP network connection. ciao -- Allan Noordvyk, Software Artisan e-mail: allan@ali.bc.ca ALI Technologies Voice: 604.279.5422 x 317 Richmond, Canada Fax: 604.279.5468 * NeXT and MIME mail welcome * "I have never seen anything fill up a vacuum so fast and still suck." -- Rob Pike, commenting on The X Window System
From: raph@porter.as.utexas.edu (William Raphael Hix) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Date: 13 Jan 1997 17:48:20 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Message-ID: <5bdsh4$jp4@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> Ken Schrock (kens@cannet.com) wrote: : Dave L. <lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY> wrote in article : > I think that most Mac users would want to stay with Apple. I think that most Mac users will stay with Apple as long as Apple stays with them. That is to say, as long as Mac users "investment" in Apple, in hardware and software costs and especially in user experience, is maintained by Apple, Mac users will stay with the MacOS. This means Apple should work hard to make Rhapsody run on every Mac with a PPC on the motherboard. They should make the software emulation in Rhapsody as complete and bullet proof as possible. This also means that default appearance manager setting should work like Sys 7. Of course they could do all of this, and still die from a lack of developer support. : : Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? The number of Mac users is in fact growing. However since this group is growing at a rate slower than the rate of growth for total computer users, the market share (the percentage of the total) is declining. Raph ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- William Raphael Hix Department of Astronomy raph@astro.as.utexas.edu University of Texas Voice: (512) 471-3412 R.L. Moore Hall FAX: (512) 471-6016 Austin TX 78712 WWW: http://tycho.as.utexas.edu/~raph Room 17.210 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rex@mit.edu (Eric King) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:47:41 -0400 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <rex-ya023080001401972347410001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971932260001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230>, maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) wrote: ) Why? DPS doesn't run on 7.x. )> Why? That's totally unnecessary. If anything all that would need to be )> done is implement some GX alternatives. i.e. you'd have a standard DPS text )> object and a GX text object. Both should be useable in the same window. )> When printing the Postscript code generated from the GX objects in a window )> would be sent along with the DPS code. ) ) So how are you going to handle windows that want one, the other, or )both? It's back to DPS. No its not. The GX objects use GX to draw, the DPS objects use DPS to draw. The only problem is arbitration and clipping. Something Apple's going to *have* to figure out anyway if they want QD 3D and Quicktime to perform well. All of the Quick**** technologies want/need direct access to the screen. Fortunately Next has already done some work in the area with Interceptor, but it sounds like the architecture needs some cleaning up before its ready to serve as a basis for QTML. ) So we get a system in which if you want portability you sacrifice )functionality. Uhhh, that's why they _dropped_ Copeland, remember? Uh no, the reason why they dropped Copland was because the Copland team had spent too much time working on side projects like porting the window manager and other crusty 68k code to C and trying to do impossible tasks like get Quickdraw to become protected memory and PMT-friendly. (straight from the mouths of Apple system software engineers...) Trying to graft GX's technologies on to DPS has that same impossible feeling that enhancing Classic Quickdraw for preemptive multitasking and protected memory did. Sure it sounds doable from the start but when you look deeper one encounters all sorts of nasty little technical problems. In retrospect (according to them) it would have been far easier if they had just gone full-steam ahead with GX, and told developers that Quickdraw and its dependent would never be usable outside of the compatibility box. Further they should have left the window, menu, etc. managers as is, and started work on newer GX-based replacements years ago. Developers would have been able to move to the new APIs under 7.x and when 8.0 finally rolled around those same apps would be instantly preemptively multitasked and protected. A new window manager *should* have been released simultaneously with GX (what else are those client heaps and viewport hierarchies for...), but Apple didn't think such a thing was necessary at the time and that they'd eventually get around to it. So what we saw were bizarre announcements like Copland would support fully preemptive and protected tasks as long as they *didn't* use any of the GUI-related Toolbox calls. However GX would probably still be callable from those tasks... Overall GX technology has been woefully mishandled, but despite that mishandling GX Typography is still a very crucial Apple technology, and one that is causing quite a bit of interest and development in Asian markets. The problem is that most of its effects are implemented on top of a shape and object database that is non-existent in Postscript and the Appkit. Furthermore the database is such that it doesn't cleanly fit in as extra DPS code or as extensions to class in the Appkit. If Apple's going to be punching holes in the screen for QTML, chances are it'll be *much* easier to just let GX use those same holes and extend the appkit with a few new classes. This way there's less of a chance of breaking something in the Appkit and there's the potential to provide some limited functionality bridges for 7.x developers. It should also speed the Rhapsody port, by keeping GX intact Apple doesn't have to reimplement and change the appkit and DPS system. When the QTML integration is done GX can just tag along, and widgets based on its layout edit libraries and other features could be implemented very quickly. ) Yes, but only if it's running. GX always runs if it's installed. That's because its always doing something, remember it takes over font rendering. I believe GX devotes ~200k or so to its font caches. For compatibility reasons Classic Quickdraw's Font caches have to be kept around also. As 7.x's VM system continues to improve and GX is upgraded, the memory requirements will go down. )as soon as you print, that jumps to about 2 meg. And then goes back down when you're done. Your point? )> We're not talking about something that would serve the needs of every )> developer, just those with small to medium size apps and who would benefit )> from having a Rhapsody native version of their app that also ran on older )> systems. ) ) Which OpenStep already does. OpenStep most assuredly does *NOT* provide that. I'm talking about operating systems, not hardware systems. If you follow Apple's road map it'll probably be 2-3 years before a very compatible Rhapsody release is made. It's not at all unlikely that most users will take a wait and see approach, and stick with the 7.x upgrades until they're sure everything they want to run is available on Rhapsody. For developers this means that they'll have to support 7.x for quite a while and that support will substantially delay the transition to Rhapsody. ) NeXT does, they used to run on 040's. NeXT Cubes and NeXTstations are *not* the same as '040 Macs. It's a support chip problem that's preventing Apple from supporting the older systems. They haven't kept good records on the low-level details of their hardware designs. -Eric -- Excerpt from Marianne Moore's 'The Pangolin' This near artichoke with head and legs and grit-equipped gizzard, the night miniature artist engineer is, yes, Leonardo da Vinci's replica- impressive animal and toiler for whom we seldom hear.
From: Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:52:22 GMT Organization: MiCMAC Distribution: inet Message-ID: <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <E2uL81.16F@micmac.com> <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net> <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> Cc: jhsterne@earthlink.net In <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> Jason S. wrote: > In article <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) > wrote: > > > Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> wrote: > > > > >In <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> Lance Togar wrote: > > >> Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> >In <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> Lance Togar wrote: > > >> >> I wonder if Jobs has retained the same Apple DWEEDISM > > >> >> he had when he "invented" the 3.5" > > >> >> floppy drive that I'd been using on my TRS-80 for > > >> >> years before his announcement. > > >> > > > >> >Are you joking? Or insane? > > >> > > >> Neither, the details are in an earlier post. You're just plain > > >> wrong and annoyingly so at that. > > >> Time to read something that wasn't printed > > >> by Apple. > > > > > >You're still stupid! You posted your story AFTER I posted this! > > > > > > > Really helping you cause here. > > Next time you're bored, slip into a computer store - buy some > > books and read 'em. > > > > >me: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:26:03 +0000 (<E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com>) > > >you: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:46:49 +0000 (<32bdc985.27070955@news.sover.net>) > > > > > So.... YOUR news server doesn't know the correct time or date. Why is > > it I'm not surprised? > > Do either of you understand that Usenet posts take time > to propagate? This is a little bit old but I just found it out and since it's insulting to me I have to answer! You imply that we two don't know that Usenet posts take time to propagate... But if you had brain between ears you'd understand that this suspicion could work for Lance (who by the way has nothing between ears) but not for me! Incidently Tim Smith kindly corrected you: "But they generally only propogate *forward* in time." But I'm not sure you got it... > J. > -- mc
From: Charles W Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:04:50 -0500 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <kmr7C2_00iVC4HaLli@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> <rex-ya023080001301971932260001@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230> In-Reply-To: <maury-1401971521060001@199.166.204.230> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 14-Jan-97 Re: GX optimizations (as I .. by Maury Markowitz@softarc. >> Also how much memory does the DPS interpreter take up? > > Dunno, but it's running on a paged OS, so it's of little concern. The WindowServer process on my NeXTstation Turbo: 78-tertius% ps aux USER PID %CPU %MEM VSIZE RSIZE TT STAT TIME COMMAND chuck 190 3.2 6.9 24.3M 5.51M ? SW 63hr - console (WindowServer) ...uses 5.5 MB of physical memory, and 24 MB of VM. The WindowServer implements the DPS interpreter and DPS backing store, along with other functionality-- the DPS interpreter alone would consume fewer resources. This is for a machine that's been up for 7 days (my previous uptime was ~120 days, but I rebooted my machine to test some RAM SIMMs that were failing on another machine). It's running about 60 processes right now. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:38:58 -0400 Organization: ISINet, Nova Scotia Message-ID: <lewisda-ya023580001501970138580001@news.dal.ca> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <5bei9m$5et@usenet.rpi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Garance A Drosehn <gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu> wrote: > "Ken Schrock" <kens@cannet.com> wrote: > > > > > I think that most Mac users would want to stay with Apple. > > > > Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? > > Because there are more *new* people coming into the market, > and the majority of them go for Intel-based PC's. I honestly think that a lot of it has to do with fear mongering and propaganda. If the media says that Apple is dead enough times, then it will eventually become a reality... a self-fulfilling prophesy. Likewise, if the media tells people enough times that Bill Gates, the biggest geek that ever lived, is a cyber-god who was sent to earth to guide us all into the brave new electronic frontier, then people will believe that too. The Mac is still far superior to a Win95 machine but all we hear about in the media is "Apple is dead" and Apple has made no attempt to refute those claims. It's called *propeganda* and *fear mongering*. Apple has to come up with an aggresive hard hitting marketing campaign to get the truth out. I'm sick to death of this pathetic sacarine coated Hallmark-style "give your dreams a chance" Performa crap!!!!! -- ________________ David Lewis lewisda@tuns.ca www.tuns.ca/~lewisda
From: jhsterne@mindspring.com.nospam (Jason S.) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:41:33 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Distribution: inet Message-ID: <jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <E2uL81.16F@micmac.com> <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net> <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com>, mic@micmac.com wrote: > In <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> Jason S. > wrote: > > In article <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance > Togar) > > wrote: > > > > > Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> wrote: > > > > > > >In <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> Lance Togar wrote: > > > >> Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> >In <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> Lance Togar wrote: > > > >> >> I wonder if Jobs has retained the same Apple DWEEDISM > > > >> >> he had when he "invented" the 3.5" > > > >> >> floppy drive that I'd been using on my TRS-80 for > > > >> >> years before his announcement. > > > >> > > > > >> >Are you joking? Or insane? > > > >> > > > >> Neither, the details are in an earlier post. You're just plain > > > >> wrong and annoyingly so at that. > > > >> Time to read something that wasn't printed > > > >> by Apple. > > > > > > > >You're still stupid! You posted your story AFTER I posted this! > > > > > > > > > > Really helping you cause here. > > > Next time you're bored, slip into a computer store - buy some > > > books and read 'em. > > > > > > >me: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 15:26:03 +0000 (<E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com>) > > > >you: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 00:46:49 +0000 > (<32bdc985.27070955@news.sover.net>) > > > > > > > So.... YOUR news server doesn't know the correct time or date. > Why is > > > it I'm not surprised? > > > > Do either of you understand that Usenet posts take time > > > to propagate? > > This is a little bit old but I just found it out and since it's > insulting to me I have to answer! > You imply that we two don't know that Usenet posts take time to > propagate... But if you had brain between ears you'd understand that > this suspicion could work for Lance (who by the way has nothing > between ears) but not for me! > Incidently Tim Smith kindly corrected you: "But they generally only > propogate *forward* in time." But I'm not sure you got it... > Excuse me? My post was obviously pointing out just how petty an argument over who posted what first was. And my having "brain between my ears" [sic] is completely unrelated to my knowing whether or not you have the common sense to realize that when you and Lance posted has no relationship to when you and Lance read said posts. Grow up. J. I'd flame you, but I think your post speaks for itself.
From: chesnutt@adobe.com (Stan Chesnutt) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Is OpenStep capable of supporting games? Date: 22 Jan 1997 03:56:14 GMT Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated Message-ID: <5c434u$hen@enquirer.corp.adobe.com> References: <32e44462.6837969@news.mindspring.com> Cc: cybobob@mindspring.com Actually, there is a version of DoomII written for NeXTStep (I presume it may run on OpenStep). Check the Omni Development Group website if you want to see it. I run DoomII on my NeXTStation Color, and it gets a reasonable frame rate. There isn't anything that specifically prohibits games from being developed for OpenStep: in fact, with the rich appkit & distributed objects, it is a fairly friendly environment for games. In <32e44462.6837969@news.mindspring.com> Nick Sharpe wrote: > I was just wondering if OpenStep was designed to support games? Like, > can there be Quake for OpenStep? > > Thanks a lot. > > Nick > --
From: stanj@cs.stanford.edu (Stan Jirman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: SCSITape and NS4.1 Followup-To: comp.sys.next.sysadmin Date: 22 Jan 1997 04:15:32 GMT Organization: Stanford University Message-ID: <5c4494$psd@nntp.Stanford.EDU> Hello, for the last 3 days I have been trying to install a driver for my DAT drive on my new 4.1 Intel setup. Rumor has it that the 4.X tape driver is broken, but somehow I hope there is a workaround for such an essential feature. If you have info how to make a tape work on 4.X, please let me know. Thanks, - Stan --- Nature photography: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~stanj NeXTmail and MIME: stanj@cs.stanford.edu
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 01:35:03 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1501970135040001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> In article <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1>, eilersm@aruba.ccit.arizona.edu (Michael Eilers) wrote: > Considering the tremendous hardware requirements of Windows NT (you'd > better have a P150, 32 megs of RAM and 2 gigs, and that's just to get it > running) Not from my experience at all! I've used NT quite a bit. I've seen it working quite nicely on 486 machines. > There are no more NuBus machines. There are no more 68K machines. These > things are dead--blotto--history--stone-age. The people who really need > and will use a modern OS have already moved on. There are no more NuBus machines??? What the hell am I typing on? It is perfectly capable of running a modern OS. It's just that the people responsible for providing such an OS are balking. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: "Danny Lau" <jest0038@tp.silkera.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT/NEXTSTEP T-shirt and mug? Date: 22 Jan 1997 04:59:51 GMT Organization: New Silkera Network Message-ID: <01bc06c2$a9cc6ca0$240246cb@athena> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Three years ago I worked for a project on NEXTSTEP/Intel, and my associates had this booklet called "NeXT Promotional Items". It is a company called Hermann Marketing which sells NeXT t-shirts, mugs, jackets, ... etc. Does it still sell these things? If it does, how can I contact them? Or does anyone else make NeXT promotional gimmicks these days? I appreciate your information for alliviating my nostalgia... --- ... Toi, mon amour, ou es-tu ce moment et ce soir?
From: zxeses@zapcom.stop.spam.net (Zxeses) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:20:28 -0800 Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Message-ID: <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3>, "Ken Schrock" <kens@cannet.com> wrote: > Dave L. <lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY> wrote in article > <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca>... > > > I think that most Mac users would want to stay with Apple. > > Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? > > -- > Ken Schrock > kens@cannet.com The computer industry is a funny place. Think about it this way, Apple Mac's used to represent 10-15% of the computers, then the PC sales picked up and new computers were sold to people who didn't have computers before. Apple keeps 96-98% of their users. The problem comes in that the growth rate is probably around 4-6% also, so it' s a wash. In other words, there are no MORE Apple Sales, but no less either. The computer industry is growing, therefore apple's "share" of this pie keeps getting smaller, but not so many less buyers/users. Make sense? Good! cause I almost forgot why I was writing this! :) So his point, that most Mac users stay with Mac's, is true still. I will always use a Mac, even if the company goes under, when I can't use my Mac any more, I will toss it out and never use a computer again.. -- Zxeses@zapcom.net <- Note: This may be different then what is in the header, please use this.
From: hill@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (David Hill) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) Date: 22 Jan 1997 06:37:37 GMT Organization: University of Calgary CPSC Message-ID: <5c4cjh$svs@linux.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> In article <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net>, Tim Young <pwilso39@mail.icon.net> wrote: >Steve Weintz wrote: >> >> ChristianSchildwaechter wrote: >> : In Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!) comp.sys.next.misc <ArticleDisplayer: 0x1644c8> writes, >> >> : Seems to make some sense this way. You wouldn't use Nextstep for 3D development, there is near to no software, you wouldn't wish to develop under Irix either. >> Actually, NEXTSTEP is pretty darned good for 3D development, at least for >> non-realtime work. The company just upgraded my workstation to a P6 with 64MB >> of RAM and a beefy graphics card; solidThinking's QuickRenderMan displays are >> now as nimble as Alias PowerAnimator 7.0 on an Indigo^2 Extreme. I routinely >> create animations as good or better than what I made at the Beckman VizLab. >> >> -- >> Steve Weintz > >Speaking of 3D games... I wonder if anyone out there remembers or even >knows that the best selling 3D game of all time was developed using NeXT >computers. That game was DOOM. > >MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! What's wrong with MacNeXT--its Scottish soooo it caan't be Crrraap (which distinguishes it from all those other non-Scottish machines!) :) david -- David R. Hill, CS & Psych Depts., U. Calgary | Imagination is more Calgary, AB, Canada T2N 1N4 Ph: 604-947-9362 | important than knowledge. hill@cpsc.ucalgary.ca OR david@firethorne.com| (Albert Einstein) http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~hill (^NeXTMail)| Kill your television!
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 22 Jan 1997 07:22:39 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5c4f7v$l98@news.digifix.com> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> In-Reply-To: <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> On 01/21/97, Vlod Kalicun wrote: >Michael Alfonso Visconti wrote: > >> But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it >> is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland >> does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said >> they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died. >> > >It was my impression that parts of copland would be incorporated into >rapsody. There is a LOT of cool stuff in copland! > Is there any information on this on Apple web site? >Theres no reason for them not to drop the Mach kernal and use the one >in Copland. > Are there any compelling reasons to do it? (i.e. is it worth the risk?) -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: peter@junior.next.com.au (Peter Lees) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Date: 22 Jan 1997 11:46:55 GMT Organization: Next Online - WWW design & serving, Sydney, AUSTRALIA Message-ID: <5c4unf$5ce@inferno.mpx.com.au> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971819170001@news.ececs.uc.edu> On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:19:17 -0500, Jack Howarth (howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu) wrote: > ps The idea of buying a new computer every 3 years is what makes me shudder. The Nubus > Powermacs have a 64-bit data bus running as fast as 40 MHz (which is within spitting distance > of anything on the Mac now). This crap people are spewing about the first generation Powermacs > being decrepit is ridiculous. This will be a real problem for Apple. The bleeding edge folk with money > to burn are willing to let Apple write off the Nubus PPCs for the 'greater good'. It's no wonder > market share is down from 8% to 5%. The business world does not write off equipment in 3 years. in fact, australian taxation laws allow you to do exactly that. it you want to be conservative, you can estimate your computer equipment will deprectiate to 0 in 5 years, but you're not required to take that path. in any case, nubus powermac will continue to have useful life in many places for years to come - we still have LC IIIs, IIci's an SE30 and even a Mac PLus being used for useful work. hint: don't keep upgrading your software. if it works, leave it alone. another point to consider is that mklinux is being developed for nubus powermacs. can anyone say "web farm" ? p -- Peter Lees (peter@next.com.au) - Technical Manager, Next Online tel: +61 2 9310 1433 * fax: +61 2 9310 1315 * http://www.next.com.au "You can have a day off when you're dead, Baldrick, and not before..."
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep From: G.C.Th.Wierda@AWT.nl (Drs G. C. Th. Wierda) Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Message-ID: <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL> Sender: news@AWT.NL Organisation: AWT Organization: Adviesraad voor het Wetenschaps- en Technologiebeleid References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001701971957130001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net> <5c05bt$rn2@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:06:40 GMT christw@lexis-nexis.com (Christopher C. Wood) wrote: >In article <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) writes: >|> As I recall, the rage in 1982 was about data bus size vs. ALU size >|> in determining bitness. The Z-80 could do 16-bit register and >|> indirect arithmetic but was labeled an 8-bit processor. The 6502 >|> couldn't do either but was still labeled 8-bit. Personally, I >|> prefer data bus size as the indicator of bitness. However, this is >|> one holy war I'll pass on for now. > >So you agree that the original IBM PC was an 8-bit machine? And some >80386-based machines were 16-bit? Here is my recollection for what it is worth. I would say that the original 8088 was a 16-bit processor. The fact that it had to hit the bus twice to get 16bit data to and from memory doesn't change that internally it worked with 16bit data. This 16bit-ness also showed up as it's default memory limitation was 64kB (16bit addresses) which was upped to 1MB by adding the 'segmentation trick'. The 8bit data path only made the CPU-memory traffic a bottleneck. The 8086 was the 16bit data path version, I would say the 'normal chip' for that series, as the 8088 was the 'constrained chip'. The 80286 and the 80386 are generally the same 32bit chip. Except that the 80286 had a couple of errors (like switching between real and protected mode) that were solved in the 80386. The 80386 came in both a constrained version (16bit data path, the SX types) and a 'normal' version (32bit data path). Between the 80386 and the 80486, there is a big difference. The 80386 was a mess. Intel (smartly) distilled a RISC-like core from the 80386 and put the other backwards compatibility stuff in an emulation on the chip. A floating point part was added. The pentium combined two 486 integer ALU's with a rewritten FP ALU and some extra logic to make the stuff work together (like branch prediction or cache, I forget). I talked to the guy (actually I interviedwed him) who was responsible for the technical launch of the Pentium during the CeBIT show. Part of the story above (including admitting that the 80[23]86 processor was awful) comes from him. The m68k processor, as far as I know, was 32bit from the start, but came in 'constrained versions'. I think the original 68000 had a 16bit data path. There even exists an m68k which has an 8bit data path). I don't know exactly what the advantages were of a smaller data path, but I would guess it meant cheaper memory. One of the reasons IBM went for the 8088 in the orginal PC (they considered the m68k) was that the m68k turned out to be more expensive in terms of memory. Yours, --- Gerben Wierda, Stafmedewerker Adviesraad voor het Wetenschaps- en Technologiebeleid. Staff member Advisory Council for Science and Technology Policy Javastraat 42, 2585 AP, 's-Gravenhage, The Hague, The Netherlands Tel (+31) 70 3639922 Fax (+31) 70 3608992 http://www.AWT.nl/ "One foolish wise man can state more than a thousand wise fools can question." "Doubters need to understand believes. Believers need not understand doubt."
From: Eric Doenges <doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 22 Jan 97 14:31:35 GMT Organization: Lehrstuhl fuer Prozessrechner, TU Muenchen (Germany) Distribution: inet Message-ID: <doenges.853943495@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001701971957130001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net> <5c05bt$rn2@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL> Originator: doenges@batian.lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de G.C.Th.Wierda@AWT.nl (Drs G. C. Th. Wierda) writes: >The 80286 and the 80386 are generally the same 32bit chip. Except that the >80286 had a couple of errors (like switching between real and protected mode) >that were solved in the 80386. The 80386 came in both a constrained version >(16bit data path, the SX types) and a 'normal' version (32bit data path). I love nitpicking, so here goes. The 80286 was NOT a 32 bit chip. It still had only 16 bit registers, and a 16 bit data bus. It couldn't do 32 bit operations. It did have a 16MB address space in protected mode though, and was faster than the 8086. -- Eric Doenges EMail:<doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> "You don't have to swim faster than the shark, just faster than the guy next to you" - anonymous
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: holmes@gorilla.nbn.com (Tim Holmes) Subject: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Message-ID: <E4E78y.Mu0@gorilla.nbn.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:31:46 GMT So a great deal has been said about what NeXT will do to or for Apple, but has anyone heard any details on what's in store for NeXT? Since I work in a mostly Mac environment, but need to use an Intel machine, I would like to be able to use NeXTStep if it could run Mac programs and do file sharing and the other Appletalk/networking stuff. Rumors, etc, welcome. Tim Holmes holmes@gorilla.nbn.com
From: dcorn@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:13:59 GMT Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32dce58b.422340@news.onramp.net> References: <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <32d7fc3d.82279872@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5ba00l$321@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32da8f2b.251026236@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5bfjit$8km@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <32dc9fc0.529753@news.onramp.net> <32DC5F69.126@rust.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:39:05 -0500, bryan white <bwhite3@rust.net> wrote: >> Compaq has had Klamath 266s for quite a while now. > >Have they sold any of these yet? No. >> deal from there, although I do want to see the 100 mhz busses - _that_ >> will be an improvement. > >There seems to be at least one pentium MB running up to 83 MHZ (ASUS >something or other). What is the PPro MB running at? 66 mhz, isn't it? Yes, Asus runs at 83 mhz, although that isn't a standard, supported spec from Intel. 100 mhz will be. Also a 33 mhz ISA bus will be standardized, although I can't get excited about that. ________________________________________________ Reachable at: 713 629 6947 nights Please quote in all replies
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E41986.47p@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:45:42 GMT References: <x6ybdwx5wn.fsf@queequeg.uchicago.edu> <32DC8CF9.4B50@friday.com> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <32DC8CF9.4B50@friday.com>, Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com> wrote: >James Felix Black wrote: >> 1. How necessary is the OD? The system has a defective drive. Can it >> be easily replaced? How much should I expect to pay for one? > >OD-- not necessary, get a Jaz drive... they are faster, more reliable, >and plug-and-play with anything (but a windoze box). > Just a comment. It's been said before but I'll say it here again just to be safe: Jaz drives need a disktab entry, which you can get from my web page or NeXTanswers. Zip drives *DO NOT*. >> 2. Does a cube support the floppy drive? If so, how much should I >> expect to pay for one? > >Yes-- as long as it is an '040 and not one of the old '030. Don't know >how much you'd have to pay... a cube can do 2.8 MB floppies-- which is >beyond the PC standard of 1.4. Sam Goldberger could tell you-- hunt >down Spherical Solutions (right?). > Right. I've seen the Sony ones for $100 or so. >Yes; And if you don't mind running single-headed, a ND+cube with lots >of memory on both (say 64 MB on both) is STILL the fastest 32 bit >graphics machine around [discounting custom hardware like >SillyGraphics and such]... truly awesome. > You figure? I haven't used modern PC-based 32-bit solutions, but I find this impressive. Not that I mind--I enjoyed many years of seeing peoples' faces when dragging windows around on my ND--but still? Nifty! >As well, simply add a secondary caching DNS server to the Linux box >and-- if you want to get really fancy-- a proxy web server and mail >transport agent, and you have yourself one bitchin' LAN... > Yeah--guess I should get a crappy 386 to stick in the closet. And some IP addresses... >Upgrade to [at least] 3.3-- it is better and is what MOST of the >community that isn't using 4.1 is currently using. > There's some argument as to whether 3.2 or 3.3 is faster if you have a Dimension board. I have 3.2 on mine and am happy (with 32/36MB) and I've never used 3.3 on one. I have FoundationUserPatch installed so I can run 3.3-ish apps, but I have no need to develop Foundationised stuff. >My cube has been moved six times, been struck by lightning twice, has >been kicked, jumped on, fallen down a [short] flight of stairs, and >still works perfectly. > Only problem is that if the paint gets scratched off the case you're left with this really ugly yellow-ish colour. :( >The B&W monitors tend to fade with time. The 17" color monitors suck >(well, most of 'em, but that's a long story). The 21" monitors are >excellent. > Monochrome monitors with no mic on the front (model N4000) are the most likely to fade. Add a microphone and oyu get N4000A--they're not bad--I've used one from the summer of 1992, pretty much 24/7 since then that's still nice. The ADB monitors (likely not what you'll get with your cube)--the N4000B--apparently used a higher- quality cathode and solved the fading problem. The 21" moitors (Hitachi, aren't they?) are possibly the nicest non-Trinitron 21" I've ever seen. Even after 5 years mine is really nice. >There is a very good reason why NeXT won many awards for the design of >the hardware... No company has *ever* built a machine as well as NeXT >built the cube and the subsequent stations. [At least, none that I'm >aware of-- if you are, please point me to 'em... I LOVE well built >'wares, be it hard or soft.] > I'd agree with this. My cube is one of the most useful things (and just all around "nice") things I've ever bought. BTW, the Oberheim Xpander is built almost as well as NeXT black hardware. It's not a computer, but you asked. :) -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc From: thomas@gamelan.shnet.org.nospam (Thomas Funke) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Message-ID: <1997Jan15.091843.664@gamelan.shnet.org> Sender: thomas@gamelan.shnet.org (thomas) Cc: felix@queequeg.uchicago.edu Organization: Disorganization References: <x6ybdwx5wn.fsf@queequeg.uchicago.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:18:43 GMT In <x6ybdwx5wn.fsf@queequeg.uchicago.edu> James Felix Black wrote: > > 1. How necessary is the OD? The system has a defective drive. Can it > be easily replaced? How much should I expect to pay for one? Don't bother about the OD. Try to clean it (there are docs on some ftp-servers) and if it still doesnt work, get some other backup device. > > 2. Does a cube support the floppy drive? If so, how much should I > expect to pay for one? SCSI-Floppys work well. > > 4. I have a USR 33.6 sportster sitting around ... but the NeXT serial > situation makes me nervous: can an '040 cube drive a serial port fast > enough, or should I invest in a cheapo PC and route PPP to ethernet > (suboptimal)? You can drive the port with 33.8 which is OK when downloading compressed files, otherwise you have some slow down. Actually the port can be driven with 56k, but then you might get overrun errors. > > 5. How much RAM should I outfit this sucker with, at a minimum? I > think that it's running 3.1 (?), and I am interested in developing. min 16MB. > > 6. How reliable are the cubes, generally speaking? Very reliable, much better than average PC hardware. > > 7. How is the NeXT printer, generally speaking? Print quality, > reliability, noise, etc. I use it seldom, the qualitity (400 dpi) is good for some years already. > > 8. I'm an Emacs/mh user, and while I can -- and some would argue, > should -- adjust, I would like at least some of my working enviroment > available. How is the range of Unix standard packages that support > NeXT? I'm thinking about things like pgp, lynx, python, perl. I am > happy to get by without X, but the thought of giving up emacs gives me > the cold sweats. The standard unix utilities work well on NeXT. The problem is Emacs: There exists a native port to NeXTSTEP but this is (I beleive) emacs 19.28. I run the latest emacs (compiles without problems) on co-Xist X-Emulator on Nextstep. This is not the fastest solution, but as I also regard emacs as the most necessary tool on every machine - what alternative do I have ..... > > 9. How wierd (meaning "not so much like Unix as you'd expect") is the > working environment? It is 99% BSD unix. A few exceptions exist. Software which is written for SYS-V need some tweaking. But almost everything on the net is running on NeXT.
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:44:17 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-1301971244170001@199.166.204.230> References: <maury-1001971514480001@199.166.204.230> <AEFC27EF-21CE5A@198.68.42.168> In article <AEFC27EF-21CE5A@198.68.42.168>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > OK, how do you create a rectangle under DPS? > > How do you move it around under DPS? > > With GX, if you want to move a rectangle around, it is a single call to > modify the transform of the shape. You can continually update teh location > of the shape (*ANY*) shape using this technique. QD, not GX. Note... > Much harder than what? GX? Not a single app I have uses it, and DPS is >no harder to use than QD. Comparing GX to DPS is fine, but the reality is that 4% of the market users it and the rest use QD. Thus the comparison is between QD and DPS. If you can make the case that QD alone is way easier to use than DPS I'd like to see it. > These are all trivial in GX. Exactly, but that's not a comparison point because GX is not in general use. Period. > The question isn't just: is DPS as easy to use as QuickDraw. Sorry, that's exactly the question for 96% of the market. > Does DPS provide the same kind of support as GX? And the answer is both "no" and "so what?". > Is it easier to provide GX services on top of DPS by creating GX-ish class > libraries or is it easier to provide GX services along side of DPS by > adding an escape code to DPS to call GX directly? (remember that both of > these require that GX be made thread safe) I thought GX was thread safe. Maury
From: maury@softarc.com (Maury Markowitz) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: GX optimizations (as I understand them) (Was Re: Will Apple release a free OPENSTEP runtime? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:05:32 -0500 Organization: Atria Software Message-ID: <maury-1301971305320001@199.166.204.230> References: <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210> In article <AEFD2E2C-537B@198.68.42.210>, "Lawson English" <english@primenet.com> wrote: > GX is already part of System 7. Not it's *not*, it's 4% of the systems out there! That's a very serious problem. You're stating that it's better to... a) port GX to the new OS b) end up with TWO display models in the yellow box c) rewrite the superb NeXT GUI libs for these new calls (OUCH!) d) port THAT to Sys 7 e) make everyone with Sys 7 install GX which they don't do because it bloats the OS anyway f) get some dynamic lib system running under 68k that actually works ...and... g) rip out a lot of functions from the resulting system such that it doesn't need to have memory management, threads, protected memory etc. This is supposed to offer an advantage over... i) port OpenStep for Mach to 040 Macs. Maury
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: Rhapsody viruses Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E3yJBn.BCI@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:30:58 GMT References: <tan-0801971353090001@138.26.45.218> <5b2a8n$gm2@news.acns.nwu.edu> <5b38l5$3p1@www.langen.bull.de> <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <5b3chi$26v@news.acns.nwu.edu>, Joshua W. Burton <jburton@nwu.edu> wrote: >vhs@nextone.langen.bull.de (Volker Herminghaus) wrote: > >> Hi Josh, remember me? I bought a bunch of ODs from you some years >> back. > >Of course: all 126 names I wrote on all those boxes and shipping >forms at 3 in the morning are engraved forever in my mind. Especially >the one who sent me delicious German chocolates! > Wow, Joshua. Sorry I didn't send you any Canadian maple syrup or something. :-) >Yep, it's a sad world. Maybe we should stay away from this Apple >thing, now that we're suddenly popular, and try to push for a GnuBe >port or something. Actually, that name is kind of cute, huh? > In a lot of ways I'm very afraid of the Apple thing for just these reasons t-and for the fact that it makes c.s.n.advocacy even worse than before. Same crossposting wankers, but now they have a mandate to post there. :-( -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: nineteen@onramp.net (Richard C. Logan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:51:25 -0600 Organization: MicroPhile Message-ID: <nineteen-1501971251250001@ppp1-08.lbcktx.onramp.net> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> In article <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224>, "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.net> wrote: > >> If we have to buy a new machine to get a modern OS, we'll do so... > > > >As in WindowsNT? Give me a break. I would rather use System7. > > > >-- > >________________ > >David Lewis > >lewisda@tuns.ca > >www.tuns.ca/~lewisda > > > > David, the lesser of two evils is still evil. > > We Nubus PowerMac Apple loyalists from the 128 days shall not be neglected, > ignored or passed over by Apple today. We are forming a class action that > you too can recoup your losses from Apple's breaches of contract. > > Certainly other platforms will be more than inviting. I could not help but notice the negative spin in the media that has been haunting Apple for sometime. These incessant attacks are undoubtedly effecting Apples market share and survivability in general. Uniformed people pick up on these press angles and treat them as fact. It seems that there has hardly been a time when the Macintosh has not been under fire. The first time I saw a Mac it was a revelation to me and I knew little or next to nothing about computers yet I intuited what the interface meant and the implications of its sublime logic. I Have been a MacUser since 1984 and have had to live with all the disinformation and hostility towards the Mac. For along time everyone said that a character based interface was the best way to go and one didn't want to have to take their hands off the keyboard, while all the time Microsoft was leveraging the Macintosh i.e. "Excel"to get a foothold in the applications market and working on Windows. Now is not the time to gather together and slit our throats for the media with lawsuits over the uncertain future of Nubus PowerMacs. If Apple falls then we will be consigned to the mediocrity of the Microsoft hegemony and a single vendor for a mainstream OS. That may be fine for buisness people, but it will be devasting for the advance of personal computing. Richard C. Logan
From: Charles W Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:56:22 -0500 Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <8mrGVKW00iV945mC55@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <simpsonh-ya02408000R1401972141060001@news.dca.net> In-Reply-To: <simpsonh-ya02408000R1401972141060001@news.dca.net> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 14-Jan-97 Re: Feedback to Apple about.. by Homer Simpson@post.drexe > I think that in May there will be some real road maps made explaining all > of the Unkowns. My fear is that this new os will be nothing more than > OpenStep repackaged. This does not excite me at all. What's new, what's > exciting about it? It's UNIX for crying outloud with a pretty interface. Can I say that you're very much mistaken about what OPENSTEP is without starting an argument? Perhaps not, but we'll see. Fact: OPENSTEP is not Unix. OPENSTEP is a platform-independant API and object library for developing applications which can run on many platforms-- not just Unix. For a real-world example, remember that you can run OPENSTEP apps on NT. [ ... ] > I had hoped for a truely modern os that would take advantage of > improvements made to memory management, files systems and distributed > symetric multiprocessing that have been discussed in Computer Science over > the last decade. Instead we are getting the same basic design that System > Vr4 gave us with some things fixed and a nice facade to a command line > interface along with 2.5 Mach kernel which is about 7 or 8 years old now. Where to start? First, the Mach kernel used under NEXTSTEP is a well designed piece of work. It has good preemptive multitasking with kernel thread support. It has a very good virtual memory implementation, including copy-on-write, shared memory via pages mapping into multiple address spaces and fast IPC via Mach messaging to either local or remote processes. NeXT has never released an SMP version of NEXTSTEP, but Mach is SMP-capable, and didn't Apple say there were going to support SMP? While NEXTSTEP normally uses the Berkeley FFS (which again is a well-done, mature filesystem implementation that's much better than HFS, FAT-xx, or HPFS, and reasonably comparible to NTFS), there was a version of TransArc's Andrew File System (AFS) available which gave ACL's, replicated fileservers, and so forth. Could Mach be improved? Of course. It would be great if they supported user paging objects, updated their NFS implementation, and added more of the BSD 4.4 networking capabilities (although NEXTSTEP does include some of the BSD 4.4 functionality). I also wouldn't mind seeing the FFS be replaced by JFS or XFS, but that's less important. > I won't even begin to discuss the security issues that unix can present. I would note that the vast majority of security problems with Unix systems are due to poor administration and OS vendors shipping insecure systems. Apple would do itself and its customers a big favor by handling security better than other OS vendors have done in the past. > NeXT has done a fine job of hiding most of UNIX with its appKits and its > Objective C usage but it is still Unix under the hood. NEXTSTEP is, yes. That's one of NEXTSTEP's greatest strengths compared to most of the other operating systems used on personal computers. As I said above, OPENSTEP has nothing to do with Unix. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.os.mach From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: OS Componenets of OpenStep for Mach Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E421ww.2CE@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:05:20 GMT References: <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au>, Jon Tidswell <jont@mri.mq.edu.au> wrote: >[ Note Cross posts ] > >Ive failed to find any concrete details about which version of Mach, >NeXT is using. NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP/Mach use a 2.5 kernel with NeXT extensions (I don't remember exactly what those are at the moment...) -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: severine@itis.com (S. Roberts) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: PPP on the NeXTNeXTNeXT Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:49:04 -0600 Organization: Intranet Message-ID: <severine-2201971249040001@c6.itis.com> Alrighty, I've got my Moosman NeXT. So, what might you kids suggest insofar as PPP apps, etc., to run this puppy? -- severine@itis.com
From: Chris Raven <craven@planete.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Single-User Boot ? Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:17:12 +0100 Organization: Pressicom/Planete.net, France Message-ID: <32E667B8.5D9C@planete.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------781B31EF7E201" ------------781B31EF7E201 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello there, I am on charge of a NeXT Cube administration. Halas ! My network configuration is so bad, that I can not boot anymore : my station stops on file system mounting, I believe it is trying to mount some remote fs...well if I depress ctrl/c, I reach the services launch screen, but my poor NeXT keeps waiting...waiting... I believe the best question is : how the hell do I boot in single user mode ???! Thank you !!! ------------781B31EF7E201 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <HTML><BODY> <DT> Hello there,</DT> <DT>I am on charge of a NeXT Cube administration.</DT> <DT>Halas ! My network configuration is so bad, that I can not boot anymore :</DT> <DT>my station stops on file system mounting, I believe it is trying to mount some</DT> <DT>remote fs...well if I depress ctrl/c, I reach the services launch screen, but</DT> <DT>my poor NeXT keeps waiting...waiting...</DT> <DT> </DT> <DT>I believe the best question is : how the hell do I boot in single user mode ???!</DT> <DT> </DT> <DT>Thank you !!!</DT> </BODY> </HTML> ------------781B31EF7E201--
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Subject: Re: Zip drives? Sender: news@novice.uwaterloo.ca (Mr. News) Message-ID: <E4F1ov.9Mw@novice.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:19 GMT References: <severine-1801972023250001@c1.itis.com> Organization: University of Waterloo In article <severine-1801972023250001@c1.itis.com>, S. Roberts <severine@itis.com> wrote: >What's the deal with Zip drives and NeXTs? (I have a Turbo Color Slab, fyi.) > Procure a cable, plug it in, and go. -- David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual
From: Vlod Kalicun <Vlod-KWR.Kalicun@ubs.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:31:03 +0000 Organization: Union Bank of Switzerland Message-ID: <32E640C7.4A09@ubs.com> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> <5c4f7v$l98@news.digifix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Anguish wrote: > > On 01/21/97, Vlod Kalicun wrote: > >Michael Alfonso Visconti wrote: > > > >> But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it > >> is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland > >> does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said > >> they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died. > >> > > > >It was my impression that parts of copland would be incorporated into > >rapsody. There is a LOT of cool stuff in copland! > > > > Is there any information on this on Apple web site? Hmmm.. I've 'read' somewhere that Hancok has not committed to using the mac kernal. (sorry this is a bit lame). I think shes just investigating all possibility and by not using mach, this may help her remove the unix aspect. > >Theres no reason for them not to drop the Mach kernal and use the one > >in Copland. > > > > Are there any compelling reasons to do it? (i.e. is it worth the > risk?) Just because Copland failed doesn't mean that everything about Copland doesn't work. The reason Copland failed IMHO :) is the compatibility problems. I think the kernal is quite advanced and works. I think most mac users will freak when they see the command line. I *know* that the front end *should* take care of everything.. but whats the reality. My knowledge of the NEXT is limited. Do you have to mess with sendmail, crontab, /dev etc? They have put in substantial resources into Copland and since OPENSTEP is kernal independant, theres no reason for them not to evaulate putting it on Copland's kernal. Just my .02 cents worth.. -vlod
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:42:23 -0600 From: tmccarth@afs2000a.usc.edu (Thomas McCarthy) Subject: Need NeXT-friendly ISP in L.A. area Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <853964889.7833@dejanews.com> Organization: University of Southern California Hi, I have given up on dialing in to my employer (Univ. of SoCal) to collect my mail/surf/etc. It is just too busy and too difficult. I am looking for a new PPP provider in the L.A. area (I'd prefer the 818 area code), and I am hoping that there's a NeXT user somewhere who has such a connection who'd be willing to share scripts and/or Gatekeeper files to make this go as smoothly as possible. I haven't been able to collect my mail in 2 weeks, and I need to get up and running again as soon as possible. I can receive mail (but not NeXTmail!) at this address: tmccarth@afs2000a.usc.edu Thanks in advance, Tom ----- Thomas McCarthy -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
From: gt7357a@acmey.gatech.edu (Tp12a) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 15 Jan 1997 23:49:42 GMT Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bjqem$n3@catapult.gatech.edu> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: : Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers : and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and : only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium : and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted : to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a : processor. I always thought "bit-ness" was a wholly contrived term from marketing-types... It seems to me that the only instance in which "bit-ness" is really significant is on the Intel 80x86 series. I am not aware of any other processor family that sports so many "modes" (8086 real mode, 80286 protected mode, 80386 protected mode, 8086 virtual mode, "Merced" mode?). Calling some piece of code "32-bit" is merely an abbreviation for the horribly long-winded "80386 protected mode." If the ALU word length determined the "bitness" of a processor, then my HP48 pocket calculator is a 64 bit machine, just like a DEC Alpha. If the maximum address space determined "bitness," a Commodore 64 would be a 16-bit machine... With virtual memory, an Intel 80486 would be a 40 bit machine! Go figure... Cheers, Phil : Rob Barris : Quicksilver Software Inc. : rbarris@quicksilver.com : * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer * -- Philip C. Tsao (pronounced 'Philip C. Tsao') Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7357a gt7357a@prism.gatech.edu http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gt7357a
From: raph@porter.as.utexas.edu (William Raphael Hix) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Date: 22 Jan 1997 21:33:12 GMT Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Message-ID: <5c612o$rt6@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> <5c4f7v$l98@news.digifix.com> Scott Anguish (sanguish@digifix.com) wrote: : On 01/21/97, Vlod Kalicun wrote: : >Michael Alfonso Visconti wrote: : > : >> But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it : >> is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland : >> does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said : >> they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died. : >> : > : >It was my impression that parts of copland would be incorporated into : >rapsody. There is a LOT of cool stuff in copland! : : Is there any information on this on Apple web site? There was info at www.macos.apple.com prior to the NeXT announcement, but I don't know if it's still there. : >Theres no reason for them not to drop the Mach kernal and use the one : >in Copland. : : Are there any compelling reasons to do it? (i.e. is it worth the : risk?) NeXT itself planned to update the Mach 2.5 kernal in NeXTStep to something more modern (Mach 3ish). It seems that currently, Apple has decided to replace the kernal, the question being which of the competing possibilities. NeXT Mach 3 work, the PPC Linux kernal, Copland's NuKernal, and Sun's Solaris kernal, have all been mentioned in the press as possibilities. It has been postulated that adoption of the NuKernal would ease the inclusion of the NuBus macs among Rhapsody users, because a lot of driver work has been done. Raph ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- William Raphael Hix Department of Astronomy raph@astro.as.utexas.edu University of Texas Voice: (512) 471-3412 R.L. Moore Hall FAX: (512) 471-6016 Austin TX 78712 WWW: http://tycho.as.utexas.edu/~raph Room 17.210 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701142101.QAA15944@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: af49fe0f219f216f2cb946603cefd005 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 16:00:57 -0500 Subject: Re: cron and individual crontabs (ala SunOS) Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: af49fe0f219f216f2cb946603cefd005 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: shaffer@durer.phyast.pitt.edu (C. David Shaffer) Original Date: 13 Jan 1997 22:32:49 GMT > I just found a good reason to use cron on my NeXTstation only to > discover that it doesn't work the same way as it did on my > SPARCstation on SunOS 4.1.3. Can anyone give me pointers as to how > one might simulate the "individual crontab" instead of the system > global one in /etcv/private. I would like for users to be able to > create cron table entries without having root privs. Any pointers > appreciated. (E-mail or posts are fine). Depends on how many users you have I guess zsh is on NS 3.3 or later. You can get it from PEAK if you have pre-3.3 NOTE: you have to use the GNU egrep to use this script, or else change it to a series of "grep -v root|grep -v agent" and so on basically you want to remove the users who you DON'T want to check. #!/usr/bin/zsh me=`whoami` # this script must be run as root if [ "$me" = "root" ] then for i in `nidump passwd . | \ tr -s ':' ' ' | \ awk '{print $1}' | \ egrep -v "root|agent|nobody|uucp|news|sybase|daemon"` do if [ -x ~$i/.crontab ] then # Found crontab for this user that was # executable su $i -c ~$i/.crontab fi done fi exit 0 You could just add that script to root's cron entry, and it will run. I give no guarantees for security holes, etc etc. I just whipped this off in a hurry (*ow*). TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) / http://www.next.peak.org/~luomat Unix regular expression: (.*[^-a-zA-Z0-9_.])?) Windows regular expression: "Damn.... it crashed again" [If you have a NeXTStep|OpenStep web page, email me the URL!]
From: no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 16 Jan 1997 02:37:46 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: : (Tp12a) wrote: : > Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: : > : Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers : > : and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and : > : only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium : > : and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted : > : to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a : > : processor. : > : > I always thought "bit-ness" was a wholly contrived term from : > marketing-types... It seems to me that the only instance in which "bit-ness" : > is really significant is on the Intel 80x86 series. I am not aware of any : > other processor family that sports so many "modes" (8086 real mode, 80286 : > protected mode, 80386 protected mode, 8086 virtual mode, "Merced" mode?). : > Calling some piece of code "32-bit" is merely an abbreviation for the : > horribly long-winded "80386 protected mode." : It seems reasonable to consider "bitness" when comparing chips from : different families, here you point out the fact that within the x86 family : that there were and are several sets of ISA and memory addressing models : available. But the terms "16-bit" "32-bit" "64-bit" are still useful, as : long as you know the difference between "64bit address space", "32bit ALU", : and "16bit data bus". : Anyway, I was originally responding to Lance's implication that Motorola : had somehow tried to pull a fast one on people by calling the 68K a 32-bit : processor. I would consider the 386-SX a 32-bit processor, even though it : has a 16-bit data bus, since it has 32-bit ALU, register model, and address : space. I seem to recall that 68000 processor actually had 16 bit ALU's, there were some "32 bit" adds and subtracts which were acoomplished via 2 passes to the 16 bit ALU, so 32 bit operations actually took twice as long. Was my memory faulty or is this indeed the case? : Rob Barris : Quicksilver Software Inc. : rbarris@quicksilver.com : * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:06:54 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1501972306550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <5bei9m$5et@usenet.rpi.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001501970138580001@news.dal.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <lewisda-ya023580001501970138580001@news.dal.ca>, lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote: >I honestly think that a lot of it has to do with fear mongering and >propaganda. If the media says that Apple is dead enough times, then it will >eventually become a reality... a self-fulfilling prophesy. Likewise, if the >media tells people enough times that Bill Gates, the biggest geek that ever >lived, is a cyber-god who was sent to earth to guide us all into the brave >new electronic frontier, then people will believe that too. The Mac is >still far superior to a Win95 machine but all we hear about in the media is >"Apple is dead" and Apple has made no attempt to refute those claims. It's >called *propeganda* and *fear mongering*. Apple has to come up with an >aggresive hard hitting marketing campaign to get the truth out. I'm sick to >death of this pathetic sacarine coated Hallmark-style "give your dreams a >chance" Performa crap!!!!! Hmmm...Apple just had its debt rating lowered again today...does that say anything about the confidence of the business world in Apple Computer. Jack -- Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474
From: howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:25:33 -0500 Organization: University of Cincinnati College of Medicine Message-ID: <howarth-ya02408000R1501972325330001@news.ececs.uc.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net>, zxeses@zapcom.stop.spam.net (Zxeses) wrote: >The computer industry is a funny place. Think about it this way, Apple >Mac's used to represent 10-15% of the computers, then the PC sales picked >up and new computers were sold to people who didn't have computers before. >Apple keeps 96-98% of their users. The problem comes in that the growth >rate is probably around 4-6% also, so it' s a wash. > >In other words, there are no MORE Apple Sales, but no less either. The >computer industry is growing, therefore apple's "share" of this pie keeps >getting smaller, but not so many less buyers/users. > >Make sense? Good! cause I almost forgot why I was writing this! :) > >So his point, that most Mac users stay with Mac's, is true still. I will >always use a Mac, even if the company goes under, when I can't use my Mac >any more, I will toss it out and never use a computer again.. > Perhaps your conclusion from the observation that repeat buyers rather than new owners make up the overwhelming bulk of Apple's sales should have been as follows. Since the above is true, it is insane for Apple to permanently alienate such a large segment of its user base as Nubus Powermac owners. I warn you that if Nubus Powermac owners leave the platform they will take a large share of 68K owners will go with them. The Nubus Powermac owners were the risk takers during the transition to the PPC and these sort of people tend to be more technically adept. They are the sort others ask for help and advice. What recommendation do you suspect these folks will make when asked by 68K owners about what model of Macintosh to buy? I myself have stopped all recommendations on Apple hardware until they have resolved the issue of Rhapsody support for Nubus Powermacs in a reasonable and honest fashion (no vague promises). Perhaps if their sales and stock price craters for a quarter or two they will come to their senses. Jack -- Jack W. Howarth, Ph.D. 231 Bethesda Avenue NMR Facility Director Cincinnati, Ohio 45211 Dept. of Molecular Genetics phone: (513) 558-4418 Univ. of Cincinnati College of Medicine fax: (513) 558-8474
From: Emmett McLean <emclean@slip.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Clock stops after logout in Black Hardware Date: 23 Jan 1997 01:38:46 GMT Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <5c6ff6$p5h$2@news1.slip.net> Hi, Is there an easy solution to fixing the clock on your Cube if the clock stops when the machine is turned off. Thanks, Emmett
From: glenn@nowsoft.com (Tod L. Glenn) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: setting dns Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:16:43 -0800 Organization: Europa Communications Inc. [Portland, OR] Message-ID: <glenn-ya02408000R2201971616430001@news.europa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Greetings, I am trying to determine how to set the dns address on NeXTstep 3.3. I found where to configure IP address and router. Any help is appreciated. This is a lone NeXT box in a mac and PC shop. ---- Tod L. Glenn Internet Services Administrator Now Software ITG webmaster@nowsoft.com ---- http://www.nowsoft.com ftp://ftp.nowsoft.com listserv@nowsoft.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: hugob@tamtam.xs4all (Hugo Burm) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Message-ID: <E4252I.6Cs@tamtam.xs4all.nl> Sender: hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl (Hugo Burm) Organization: datagram References: <32DB6BC1.689D@ibp.de> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:13:30 GMT In article <32DB6BC1.689D@ibp.de> Lars Immisch <lars@ibp.de> writes: > James Felix Black wrote: > > [snip] > > > > 4. I have a USR 33.6 sportster sitting around ... but the NeXT serial > > situation makes me nervous: can an '040 cube drive a serial port fast > > enough, or should I invest in a cheapo PC and route PPP to ethernet > > (suboptimal)? > > Arggghmmnn. I'm not 100% sure, but according to the man pages you should > be able to drive your modem fast enough. You _will_ need a special cable > (I usually take a Mac cable, and solder a new DB 25 connector to it 'coz > it's a real pain to solder the DIN 9's) > > [sip] I tried this but this did not work because most 'high speed' Mac cables only have 6 out of 8 pins of the Mini Din-8 connector connected. And you do need the two pins not used on the Mac for an 040 NeXT. More details at the "TheSolutions" section of "http://www.radical.com". If you have to solder use the very thin wire-wrap wire. If you want to use the modem at 33.6 line speed , you need a 57.6 baud connection to your modem. This will keep your Cube rather busy. hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system From: hugob@tamtam.xs4all (Hugo Burm) Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Message-ID: <E4262s.6FL@tamtam.xs4all.nl> Sender: hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl (Hugo Burm) Organization: datagram References: <5bdsh4$jp4@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:35:16 GMT In article <5bdsh4$jp4@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> raph@porter.as.utexas.edu (William Raphael Hix) writes: > Ken Schrock (kens@cannet.com) wrote: > > : Then why does Apple's market share keep dropping? > > The number of Mac users is in fact growing. However since this group is > growing at a rate slower than the rate of growth for total computer > users, the market share (the percentage of the total) is declining. > > Raph > Your definition of market share sounds ok, but I have the impression that when journalists are talking about market share, they are talking about the percentage of newly sold copies. The market share journalists are talking about is dropping faster than your definition. (Probably the same journalists that are talking about stabilization of the growth rate of inflation.) hugob@tamtam.xs4all.nl
From: jchan@apk.net (Jerome Chan) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:36:53 -0500 Organization: TofuSoft Message-ID: <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com>, jrudd@cygnus.com wrote: > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > > > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might could get the > cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial ;-) > > Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac (sort of a play on "The > NeXT Computer" [original name of the next cube]) ... > > anyone else? MacOS 8. --- The Evil Tofu (Only Human)
From: "J. Paul Lindblad" <searchit@concentric.REMOVEthisToRespond.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 15 Jan 97 23:08:06 -0800 Organization: Concentric Internet Services Message-ID: <AF031411-ABD27@206.173.240.169> References: <wmrLSKW00WBLI_Bf0q@andrew.cmu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nntp://news.concentric.net/comp.sys.mac.system >> I'm sure that this wasn't the first instance where Apple said that Copland >> would run on NuBus PowerMacs - just the earliest that I've dug up so far. >> >> Mike >> >But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it >is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland >does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said >they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died. > >Michael Alfonso Visconti <mv2a+@andrew.cmu.edu> Copland's intended but failed attempt at multitasking and protected memory is real, here today on NeXT. Two of the three Mach kernals considered have run on the PPC 601. The issue is Apple's commitment [really lacking] to maintain a system for a lot of current users - especially NuBus PowerMac owners. - Paul Prior to sending email, remove '.REMOVEthisToRespond' in the From field.
From: rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:05:04 -0800 Organization: Quicksilver Software, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <rbarris-ya023280001501972305040001@news.quicksilver.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu>, no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) wrote: > Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: > : Anyway, I was originally responding to Lance's implication that Motorola > : had somehow tried to pull a fast one on people by calling the 68K a 32-bit > : processor. I would consider the 386-SX a 32-bit processor, even though it > : has a 16-bit data bus, since it has 32-bit ALU, register model, and address > : space. > > I seem to recall that 68000 processor actually had 16 bit ALU's, there > were some "32 bit" adds and subtracts which were acoomplished via 2 passes > to the 16 bit ALU, so 32 bit operations actually took twice as long. > Was my memory faulty or is this indeed the case? The original 68000 did indeed have a 16-bit ALU and the behavior of which you speak. This did not change until the 68020 if memory serves. Rob Barris Quicksilver Software Inc. rbarris@quicksilver.com * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
From: rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:06:58 -0800 Organization: Quicksilver Software, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <rbarris-ya023280001501972306580001@news.quicksilver.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In article <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu>, no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) wrote: > I seem to recall that 68000 processor actually had 16 bit ALU's, there > were some "32 bit" adds and subtracts which were acoomplished via 2 passes > to the 16 bit ALU, so 32 bit operations actually took twice as long. > Was my memory faulty or is this indeed the case? Sorry to follow up my own post, hit the send key too fast.. 32 bit operations often took an extra cycle or two, not necessarily "twice as long". For example a reg-reg add might take 4 cycles for the 8 or 16 bit case, or 5 cycles for the 32 bit case due to the extra trip through the ALU. Rob Barris Quicksilver Software Inc. rbarris@quicksilver.com * Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701221441.JAA04662@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: da50dc76b8a9ab0a92bd8388bd37a636 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 09:41:51 -0500 Subject: Re: using modem through terminal Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: da50dc76b8a9ab0a92bd8388bd37a636 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: Gregory Pacholczyk <gpacho1@gl.umbc.edu> Original Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:08:23 -0500 > i just bought an 040 25 cube and a modem. how do i dial into my ISP > through terminal. ie. how do i issue the ATDT ###-#### command) I use kermit ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/apps/comm/kermit.5A.190.NIHS.README ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/apps/comm/kermit.5A.190.NISH.bs.tar.gz I find it very easy to use, and has very good online-help that tells you when you are doing something wrong. TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) If you have a web page about NeXTStep|OpenStep, email me the URL!
From: Hidehisa Tsutsumi <tsu2mi@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help to install V3.3 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:20:29 -0800 Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <32DDE4CD.6AF8@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CC: htsu2mi@ccsi.canon.com Please help me! I'd like to install NeXTStep V3.3 to my Intel PC. But when start installing it, displayd "system panic". And It say can not see SCSI CD drive. So My PC has DPT 2012B/90 EISA SCSI bord. What happen to me?? How can I do???? Somebody know about that problem??? HIDE TSUTSUMI htsu2mi@ccsi.canon.com
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 01:02:00 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1601970102000001@ctsasync71.cc.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971349340001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <lewisda-ya023580001201971817160001@news.dal.ca> <01bc00ea$bbd5f5c0$57f612c7@schrock3> <zxeses-ya023080001501970020280001@news.zapcom.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1501972325330001@news.ececs.uc.edu> In article <howarth-ya02408000R1501972325330001@news.ececs.uc.edu>, howarth@nitro.med.uc.edu (Jack Howarth) wrote: > What recommendation do you suspect these folks will make > when asked by 68K owners about what model of Macintosh to buy? I myself have stopped > all recommendations on Apple hardware until they have resolved the issue of Rhapsody > support for Nubus Powermacs in a reasonable and honest fashion (no vague promises). Heh, heh. I've already let die one possible purchase of a new Performa system (to replace an ancient PC). My parents were considering getting a Mac based on how I'd recommended them in the past. No more. I told them that Apple had become very unreliable, and nobody could be certain of the support they would receive (both from Apple and third party). They bought a new PC, and it has worked flawlessly for them. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
From: sroth@netrover.com (Steven Roth) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can eat shit Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:33:35 -0500 Organization: Netrover Distribution: inet Message-ID: <sroth-1501971333350001@ascend9.netrover.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <judas.0mwa@tomtec.abg.sub.org> <carol1-0701972248550001@17.219.103.211> <5b11c5$rmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <AEFB9EC9-369E0@207.158.13.84> <5b7km0$o68@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <32d7fc3d.82279872@client.sw.news.psi.net> <5ba00l$321@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32da8f2b.251026236@client.sw.news.psi.net> <1997011409420622019@ts3u-4.cc.umanitoba.ca> <5bicof$8hl@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> In article <5bicof$8hl@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, t21@ix.netcom.com (Stephan Schaem) wrote: >In article <1997011409420622019@ts3u-4.cc.umanitoba.ca>, umbeggs@cc.umanitoba.ca (Gerry Beggs) wrote: >>Joshua T. McKee <jmckee@miaco.com> wrote: >> >>> I realize that the PPro is not a great design, but for a poor design, >>> it is competing very well. I read from DEC's home page that DEC >>> believes a 300MHz PPro will keep pace with their 433MHz 21164 (this is >>> recalled from memory from a few weeks ago, you may wish to verify it). >>> The question is, can Intel get the PPro to 300MHz? >> >>I find this hard to believe. since the PPC 604 is faster than the PPro >>at the same clock speed, and the Alpha is faster than the 604. >> > > ppro 200mhz 8.1 specint95 , ppc 604e 200mhz 7.41 > 6.75 specfp95, ppc 604e 200mhz 6.72 > > An alpha 21164 300mhz get 7.3 specint95. > > a 195mhz R10000 is faster then any of the above, and Mips > cpu can be very cheap for low end system. > > What number did you base your assumption on? > > Stephan From Byte magazine: "It takes two 200Mhz Pentium Pros to equal one 200Mhz PowerPC 604e processor." - results from Byte Benchmarks testing. -- Steven Roth sroth@netrover.com
From: Johannes Geiss <jgeiss@wilma.qint.de> Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace,alt.fan.enya,alt.good.morning,alt.good.news,alt.music.enya,alt.personals,alt.personals.misc,comp.graphics.misc,comp.infosystems.www.misc,comp.os.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.misc,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.hp.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.newton.misc,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.windows.misc,misc.wanted,rec.arts.misc,rec.skiing.alpine,rec.skiing.snowboard,sci.misc,soc.culture.canada,soc.misc Subject: Canadian girl in Austria, Kaprun, KITZSTEINHORN Followup-To: alt.fan.enya Date: 16 Jan 1997 15:54:05 +0100 Organization: Qint Software Message-ID: <wziv4x1xiq.fsf@wilma.qint.de> Hello, sorry for bothering this newsgroup but I'm looking for a certain canadian girl I've met in Europe/Austria/Zell am See in the "Crazy Daisy" pub at the night of new year, 3:00 hours. She was on vacation at Kaprun and skiing on the mountain Kitzsteinhorn until January, 06. I have forgotten to ask her about her name and so I try to contact her this way. If you may know her please ask her to contact me via eMail. My address is "jgeiss@qint.de". She is ca. 170(?) cm, tall, short dark hair (nearly black), black eyebrowes, brown eyes, age ca. 27(?) years. She wore a dark grey pullover and black pants. I asked her, "Where do you come from?", and we talked about "overcrowded Europe" and "not getting up too early for skiing". Again, sorry for bothering you in this newsgroup. Thank you Johannes -- ============================================//===================== Johannes R. Geiss // Qint Software http://www-internal.qint.de/~jgeiss \\ // Robert-Koch-Str. 2 ========================================\X/========================
From: christw@lexis-nexis.com (Christopher C. Wood) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 16 Jan 1997 16:26:10 GMT Organization: LEXIS-NEXIS, Dayton OH Message-ID: <5blkr2$sdm@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972305040001@news.quicksilver.com> In article <rbarris-ya023280001501972305040001@news.quicksilver.com>, rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) writes: |> In article <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu>, no_spam@Glue.umd.edu |> (David T. Wang) wrote: |> > Rob Barris (rbarris@quicksilver.com) wrote: |> > : Anyway, I was originally responding to Lance's implication |> > : that Motorola had somehow tried to pull a fast one on people by |> > : calling the 68K a 32-bit processor. I would consider the |> > : 386-SX a 32-bit processor, even though it has a 16-bit data |> > : bus, since it has 32-bit ALU, register model, and address |> > : space. |> > I seem to recall that 68000 processor actually had 16 bit ALU's, |> > there were some "32 bit" adds and subtracts which were |> > acoomplished via 2 passes to the 16 bit ALU, so 32 bit operations |> > actually took twice as long. Was my memory faulty or is this |> > indeed the case? |> The original 68000 did indeed have a 16-bit ALU and the behavior |> of which you speak. This did not change until the 68020 if memory |> serves. On the other hand, this behavior was invisible to the machine code. It's just an implementation detail. Replace the microcode and 16-bit ALU with a 32-bit ALU. Performance goes up on all your software. A lot like increasing the clock speed. Chris -- Speaking only for myself, of course. Chris Wood christw@lexis-nexis.com cats@CFAnet.com
From: Toshinao Ishii <ici@giocoso.ici.net.jp> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: PopOver + procmail ? Date: 16 Jan 1997 04:16:53 +0900 Organization: 3WEB corp. Message-ID: <x6pvz6g34q.fsf@giocoso.ici.net.jp> Hi. Is there any way to pass emails received by using PopOver (or other pop client) to procmail ? -=-=-=-=-=-=-= Toshinao Ishii email: ici@osk.threewebnet.or.jp (NeXTMAIL/MIME Welcome)
From: mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu.NO_SPAM (Mike Zulauf) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Only idiots jump Bass Ackwards - What's gotten lost here? 7.6 is taste. Rhapsody will rule! Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:26:34 -0700 Organization: Dept. of Meteorology - University of Utah Message-ID: <mazulauf-1601970926350001@ctsasync82.cc.utah.edu> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <mazulauf-1301970142590001@sneezy.met.utah.edu> <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net> In article <zxeses-ya02408000R1601970229490001@news.zapcom.net>, zxeses@stop.spams.dead.edu (Zxeses) wrote: > How did we go from "Currently Shipping Mac's" to "Apple is considering > dumping".... I do follow the logic sure, but before we start complaining > about something we know *NOTHING* factual about, lets come to an > understanding that Apple will be reasonable and give major segments of > their user base what they want. For the umpteenth time, Apple is "investigating the work required to support older systems." If you can't see that this means they are considering dumping those older systems then you need to take a reading comprehension course. Here is the relevant blurb: "Apple's goal is for Rhapsody to support all PowerPC-processor based Macintosh hardware sold by Apple and Apple licensees today, and all upcoming products including the PowerPC Platform, also known as CHRP. Apple is investigating the work required to support older systems as well." from "Mac OS and NeXT Technologies FAQ." http://macos.apple.com/macos/releases/rhapsody/faq.rhap.html > Why must they say so soon? Why can't you wait until it actually SHIPS > before you hit them with 'shit'?? > > End of the year people, just tell Apple what you want and then wait it out, > don't KILL apple for something they havent don't yet! Once Apple makes the decision, then we won't be able to influence it at all. Do you understand that? The whole point of all this bitching is to let Apple know that they _must_ decide to support the NuBus PowerMacs! Another reason to act soon is that many people will not want to sink much money into a sytem that may be a dead-ender. I know that I am delaying purchasing anything major for my Mac - I've heard similar sentiments for others. In case you haven't heard, sales of Mac software are dropping - this does nothing to help the platform. See the following URL for more info: (http://www.macweek.com/top_stories/nw_soft_sales.html > A loyal mac addict, Apple lover, and all around resonable guy, who would > rather eat razors and lead paint then use Winsuck-Anything. If Apple stops > MAKING computers, I will stop USING computers. Well good for you. Most of us are a little more balanced than that. For me, to quit using computers would mean having to enter a completely new line of work, and throwing a way many years of education. Mike -- Mike Zulauf mazulauf@atmos.met.utah.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: frank@OneVision.de (Frank Pohl) Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Message-ID: <E4GFrG.7qu@onevision.de> Sender: news@onevision.de Organization: OneVision GmbH, Regensburg, Germany Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:30:52 GMT In comp.sys.next.misc article <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> John Rudd wrote: > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might could get the > cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial ;-) > > Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac (sort of a play on "The > NeXT Computer" [original name of the next cube]) ... > > anyone else? How about "Next Round" or "Macxt Round"? Means: Apple vs. Microsoft Apple OS vs. MS Windows Next Cube vs. Apple Mac Next vs. the world Frank
From: m_mocker@amg.de. (Martin Mocker) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Formatting JAZ-Disks Date: 23 Jan 1997 12:48:33 GMT Organization: AMG Industrieconsulting GmbH Message-ID: <5c7mn1$r5j@hagen.amg.de> Hi there, does anyone know, how to format a JAZ Disc (IOMEGA) under NEXTSTEP 3.3 ?? Thanks, Martin Mocker (mm@amg.de)
From: John Palkovic <palkovic@fnal.gov> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 16 Jan 1997 11:24:21 -0600 Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL Sender: palkovic@petcon2.fnal.gov Message-ID: <u73n2u9o7ne.fsf@petcon2.fnal.gov> References: <AEFD791D-5A322@206.173.240.191> <sword-1201971008080001@line003.nwm.mindlink.net> <howarth-ya02408000R1201971337270001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <eilersm-1201971448040001@192.0.2.1> <turnefh-ya02408000R1501971740550001@news.earthlink.net> turnefh@mail.auburn.edu ("Fred H. Turner, III") writes: > Oh, really? I "really need and will use" a modern OS, but, you know, > Michael, I just haven't gotten around to having a couple thousand extra > bucks in my pocket to replace this rickety old, piece-o'-shit 7100 of mine > with. Sure, it hardly runs and is so slow that I'd rather use my old Mac > Classic, ... Fred, thanks for your cogent and relevant commentary. I have a Performa 6116 at home, should I throw it in the dumpster tonight and then kill myself? It may not run Rhapsody, and life just has no meaning for me anymore. Why, oh why did I buy a Nubus Powermac? * Sincerely, -John -- palkovic@fnal.gov http://users.net66.com/~jp home: palkovic@usa.net MIME and pgp welcome. * Insert :-) if you are humor-impaired.
From: no_spam@Glue.umd.edu (David T. Wang) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Followup-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Date: 16 Jan 1997 17:36:09 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, MD Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5blou9$ia8@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> Christopher C. Wood (christw@lexis-nexis.com) wrote: : On the other hand, this behavior was invisible to the machine code. : It's just an implementation detail. Replace the microcode and 16-bit : ALU with a 32-bit ALU. Performance goes up on all your software. A : lot like increasing the clock speed. Ofcourse, but this was one of the criteria which Mr Barris was using to determine the "bitness" of a processor, and I was simply pointing out that 68000 processors had 16 bit data paths, and 16 bit ALUs, Even though it had 32 bit registers, convention was that it was referred to as a 16 bit processor. : Chris : -- : Speaking only for myself, of course. : Chris Wood christw@lexis-nexis.com cats@CFAnet.com
From: kpompei@xmission.com (Kevin Pompei) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:08:19 -0700 Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900) Message-ID: <MPG.d513adeef919554989680@news.xmission.com> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net> In article <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net>, jchan@apk.net says... > In article <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com>, jrudd@cygnus.com wrote: > > > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > > > > > > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) > > > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might could get the > > cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial ;-) > > > > Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac (sort of a play on "The > > NeXT Computer" [original name of the next cube]) ... > > > > anyone else? > > MacOS 8. > How about NEXTSTEP 5.0? Kevin.
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: using modem through terminal Date: 23 Jan 97 09:20:13 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97Jan23092013@slave.one.net> References: da50dc76b8a9ab0a92bd8388bd37a636 - <199701221441.JAA04662@nerc.com> In-reply-to: Timothy J Luoma's message of Wed, 22 Jan 97 09:41:51 -0500 In article <199701221441.JAA04662@nerc.com>, Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> writes: Responding To: Gregory Pacholczyk <gpacho1@gl.umbc.edu> Original Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:08:23 -0500 > i just bought an 040 25 cube and a modem. how do i dial into my > ISP through terminal. ie. how do i issue the ATDT ###-#### > command) I use kermit You can also do "cu -l /dev/cufa -s 19200" to connect to the modem with serial port a (with hardware flow control) at speed 19200. Use cua for non-hardware-flow-control (you've _gotta_ have hardware flow control, though), cufb/cub for serial port b. Might try ttyfa/ttya/ttyfb/ttyb, also, I can't recall if the permissions are set appropriately by default or not. *pant*, *pant*. There's also a hack way to transfer a file. On the remote system, type "uuencode filename filename", then watch the data fly. Once it's done, copy the entire buffer and run "paste | uudecode". Note that this only works reasonably if you have a solid connection end-to-end. That can be used to download kermit, which can do file transfers more robustly. Or zmodem, which can be used to do file transfers from within cu. Or ppp to create a real live internet connection. Later, -- scott hess <shess@one.net> (606) 578-0412 http://w3.one.net/~shess/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell>
From: embuck@palmer.cca.rockwell.com (Erik M. Buck) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Re: killer apps for Apple/NeXT Date: 16 Jan 1997 01:31:25 GMT Organization: Rockwell Avionics - Collins Message-ID: <5bk0dd$jnq@castor.cca.rockwell.com> References: <32DD473F.334E@worldnet.att.net> Cc: ziziz@worldnet.att.net In <32DD473F.334E@worldnet.att.net> zizi zhao wrote: > Dean Hall is looking for killer apps for Apple/NeXT OS. He says: > "So far > most of the stories have been about > Apple , I would really like to know > about how the deal affects NeXT > developers. Does anyone have a > killer app in the works? What about > game developers? " > in his webpage http://members.tripod.com/~dehall/nextstep.html One of the companies I contract for may just have the "killer app". Imagine building first class OpenStep objects (especially highly graphical animating ones) with no code at all. This thing could put Visual Basic out of the picture and or be a great way to build Visual Basic component ware. My company is in fact working on a high end game using all of the latest greatest NeXT technology. Sorry I can not give details. P.S. Renderman was already available for Mac
From: Randall Dean <rwd@cronald.osf.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.os.mach Subject: Re: OS Componenets of OpenStep for Mach Date: 23 Jan 1997 12:35:31 -0500 Organization: Open Software Foundation Message-ID: <yu2lo9k70rg.fsf@cronald.osf.org> References: <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au> <E421ww.2CE@novice.uwaterloo.ca> dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) writes: I believe they use Mach 2.0 and NOT 2.5. > > In article <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au>, > Jon Tidswell <jont@mri.mq.edu.au> wrote: > >[ Note Cross posts ] > > > >Ive failed to find any concrete details about which version of Mach, > >NeXT is using. > > NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP/Mach use a 2.5 kernel with NeXT extensions (I don't > remember exactly what those are at the moment...) > > -- > David Evans (NeXTMail OK) dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca > Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ > University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer > Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual -- Randall W. Dean r.dean@opengroup.org The Open Group Research Institute http://www.opengroup.org/~rwd 11 Cambridge Center (617) 621-7310 Cambridge, MA 02142 FAX: (617) 621-8696
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 23 Jan 1997 20:29:25 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5c8hn5$9t8@news.digifix.com> References: <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> <5c4f7v$l98@news.digifix.com> <32E640C7.4A09@ubs.com> In-Reply-To: <32E640C7.4A09@ubs.com> On 01/22/97, Vlod Kalicun wrote: >Scott Anguish wrote: >> >> On 01/21/97, Vlod Kalicun wrote: >> >Michael Alfonso Visconti wrote: >> > >> >> But COPLAND was scrapped, remember? This is a different OS entirely- it >> >> is NOT the remains of Copland at all. So what was said about Copland >> >> does not necessarilly hold true for NextMacOS. They publically said >> >> they scrapped it. There were no half truths about that. Copland died. >> >> >> > >> >It was my impression that parts of copland would be incorporated into >> >rapsody. There is a LOT of cool stuff in copland! >> > >> >> Is there any information on this on Apple web site? > >Hmmm.. I've 'read' somewhere that Hancok has not committed to using the mac >kernal. (sorry this is a bit lame). I think shes just investigating all possibility >and by not using mach, this may help her remove the unix aspect. > Sorry, my question was incorrectly worded I guess. I'm looking for information on Copland as a whole. <snip> >I think most mac users will freak when they see the command line. I *know* >that the front end *should* take care of everything.. but whats the reality. >My knowledge of the NEXT is limited. Do you have to mess with sendmail, crontab, >/dev etc? > nope. not if you don't want to. crontab is a functionality that can easily be exploited by a UI though.. >They have put in substantial resources into Copland and since OPENSTEP is kernal >independant, theres no reason for them not to evaulate putting it on Copland's >kernal. > Certainly... by my question is if there was anything compelling about Copland that would make it a better choice... -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: hgromard@xlan (Herve de GROMARD) Subject: Notebook under NeXTSTEP 3.3 or 4.1 Message-ID: <E4H3HM.ADC@x-lan.alienor.fr> Sender: news@x-lan.alienor.fr Organization: x&lan Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:03:22 GMT Hy, Can anybody indicates us where we can buy a notebook compatible with NeXTSTEP 3.3. That notebook should be equiped with a PCMCIA modem (fax - with NxFAX) and a PCMCIA Ethernet adaptor (Thank you to precise which products are compatible with NeXTSTEP 3.3). Thank you to reply at : --
# Herve de GROMARD # email/NeXTmail/MIME:hgromard@x-lan.alienor.fr # # X&LAN - FRANCE # Tel:(+33) 5 56 40 89 93 Fax:(+33) 5 56 40 57 99 # ####################################################################### #################################################################### From: TimT@asiatlanta.com (Tim Triemstra) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 19:06:09 GMT Organization: Alpha Star International Message-ID: <5c8d55$9lv@client3.news.psi.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net> In article <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net>, jchan@apk.net (Jerome Chan) wrote: >> Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac (sort of a play on "The > >> NeXT Computer" [original name of the next cube]) ... >> >> anyone else? > >MacOS 8. I would have to believe that they will leave behind the MacOS name because of the diverging paths of OS development (ie: new 7.x series releases will continue - supposedly - even after Rhapsody is released.) I would expect, however, that the call it something equally boring like MacOS for Mach v1.0 or something of that nature... Tim Triemstra ....... TimT@ASIAtlanta.com Alpha Star International, Atlanta GA USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: cdouty@netcom.com (Chris Douty) Subject: Re: NeXT/NEXTSTEP T-shirt and mug? Message-ID: <cdoutyE4H86n.JCK@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom On-Line Services References: <01bc06c2$a9cc6ca0$240246cb@athena> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:44:46 GMT Sender: cdouty@netcom21.netcom.com In article <01bc06c2$a9cc6ca0$240246cb@athena>, Danny Lau <jest0038@tp.silkera.net> wrote: > >Three years ago I worked for a project on NEXTSTEP/Intel, >and my associates had this booklet called "NeXT Promotional >Items". It is a company called Hermann Marketing which >sells NeXT t-shirts, mugs, jackets, ... etc. > >Does it still sell these things? If it does, how can I contact >them? Or does anyone else make NeXT promotional gimmicks these days? I just happen to have a copy of that booklet right here. It's dated 5/93 so I wouldn't get my hopes too high. "All quantities while supplies last. To order call (800) 972-1331" They also have a fax number at (314) 432-1818. It looks like the warehouse is in St. Louis, but I can't find a postal address. I'd guess that the company is still in business. They might have some NeXT goodies lying about, but high demand items like mugs, sweaters, and hats are probably gone. Good luck, I think I'll give 'em a call too. -Chris Douty -- Christopher Douty - Rogue Engineer trapped in a land of software cdouty@netcom.com "Frequently the messages have meaning; that is they refer to or are correlated according to some system with physical or conceptual entities. These semantic aspects of communication are irrelevant to the engineering problem." -Shannon
From: Greg Davis Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Turbo Color Slab can't read MAC CD-ROM Date: 23 Jan 1997 16:41:51 GMT Organization: Shentel Message-ID: <5c84cf$he@head.globalcom.net> OK Sports fans, here's a strange one, and I hope some smart NeXT-O-Phile can shed some light on THIS one! I'm using a NeXT Turbo color slab, NS3.2. I recently purchased a T_Maker CD-ROM clipart set (the 65,000 Image Pak, Macintosh flavor). I inserted the first disk, and voila, everything is as it should be. Disk mounts OK, filesystem is visible, and the image files are there to be used. I then inserted the second disc, and the disc mounts, but appears to have no contents! Console said mac disc mounted OK. Going through the rest of the discs, three work fine but five are the same---unreadable. Another clue: The successfully mounted/visible discs have red apple at the upper right hand side of the Disc icon, but the "other" ones have no apple present. Also, using inspector to check attributes, the good discs have check marks in all the matrix boxes, but the bad discs have no write permission. I am at a loss to explain this one away. T-Maker said they would replace the discs, but something tells me that ain't the problem. I'm wondering if some parameter during disc manufacture was altered slightly, resulting in the variation in the attributes of the eight discs. Any thoughts? Greg
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin From: Markus G <markusg@burrow.muc.de> Subject: Re: PopOver + procmail ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <7x4tghtcys.fsf@burrow.muc.de> To: Toshinao Ishii <ici@osk.threewebnet.or.jp> Sender: tm@burrow.muc.de (the mole) Organization: hardly any. . . References: <x6pvz6g34q.fsf@giocoso.ici.net.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.92) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:30:35 GMT >>>>> "TI" == Toshinao Ishii <ici@giocoso.ici.net.jp> writes: TI> Is there any way to pass emails received by using PopOver (or TI> other pop client) to procmail ? PopOver puts mail in your regular mail queue (if I'm not mistaken) that's the same place where "regular" procmail gets its mail. Shouldn't be a problem. General remark: to use procmail with NeXT Mailboxes you need the appnmail utility by Carl Edman and Tom Hageman. Markus G
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:31:16 -0600 From: poundmacvits@hotmail.com Subject: OpenStep - OS or environment? Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.be,comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <853364334.28236@dejanews.com> Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service The media has been making a number of confusing and contradictory claims about what OpenStep is and I hope someone can settle a few things for me. First of all I had initially understood that OpenStep was the former NeXTStep operating system that used the Mach (2.5?) microkernal and which had been ported to just about every major cpu around. I also thought that OpenStep Enterprise was an application development environment that let developers create applications that would run on different operating system systems, such as Solaris or WindowsNT, providing that they had the OpenStep APIs. However now I read reports (mostly from macuser) that suggest that OpenStep is simply a layer that can be placed on different operating systems, such as a WindowsNT system (kernal). If this is true then its not necessary to 'port' OpenStep to other CPU's, such as a pentium, because it'll already run on the OS, eg, solaris. Which is it? Both? -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Message-ID: <32E796ED.65CB@lhep.unibe.ch> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:50:53 +0100 From: Juerg Beringer <beringer@lhep.unibe.ch> Organization: Laboratory for High Energy Physics, University of Bern MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.sysadmin,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.software CC: beringer@lhep.unibe.ch Subject: Access to NS/Intel boot time options Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it possible to access within the rc startup scripts the options entered at the NeXTStep (V3.3) boot prompt of an Intel machine? I am using e.g. config=SCSI at the boot prompt to load the device drivers according to a table SCSI.table (in /usr/Devices/System.config) instead of the standard Instance0 table. For different reasons I'd like to know in the startup scripts which options (if any) were selected. Thanks for any hints! Juerg Beringer E-mail: beringer@lhep.unibe.ch
From: Tal Lancaster <tlan@fa.disney.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Need NeXT-friendly ISP in L.A. area Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:06:48 -0800 Organization: The Walt Disney Company Message-ID: <32E7FD18.2781@fa.disney.com> References: <853964889.7833@dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas McCarthy wrote: > > Hi, > > I have given up on dialing in to my employer (Univ. of SoCal) to collect > my mail/surf/etc. It is just too busy and too difficult. I am looking for > a new PPP provider in the L.A. area (I'd prefer the 818 area code), and I > am hoping that there's a NeXT user somewhere who has such a connection > who'd be willing to share scripts and/or Gatekeeper files to make this go > as smoothly as possible. I haven't been able to collect my mail in 2 > weeks, and I need to get up and running again as soon as possible. > > I can receive mail (but not NeXTmail!) at this address: > > tmccarth@afs2000a.usc.edu > > Thanks in advance, > > Tom > ----- > Thomas McCarthy > > -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet I am using pacbell and it wasn't too bad setting up. The bad news is in order to setup and account you must use their software which only runs on Windows or NT. But once that is done one can use whatever OS you want. I am successfully using it under NS, Linux, NT, and Win95. -- "If somebody was to say my rabbit, wasn't my rabbit, I'd tweek his little, tomato nose." -- B. Bunny Tal Lancaster Technical Director, Disney Feature Animation email: tlan@fa.disney.com WEB: The RenderMan Repository (http://pete.cs.caltech.edu/RMR/)
From: Charles William Swiger <cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.os.mach Subject: Re: OS Componenets of OpenStep for Mach Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:52:50 -0500 Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Message-ID: <Imtxqmm00iV9AA4xQx@andrew.cmu.edu> References: <5bhkt2$t78@manuel.ocs.mq.edu.au> <E421ww.2CE@novice.uwaterloo.ca> <yu2lo9k70rg.fsf@cronald.osf.org> In-Reply-To: <yu2lo9k70rg.fsf@cronald.osf.org> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 23-Jan-97 Re: OS Componenets of OpenS.. by Randall Dean@cronald.osf > dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) writes: > I believe they use Mach 2.0 and NOT 2.5. It's somewhat up to question. Since I've never had access to NeXT's source code, I have to describe things from what I know of CMU's versions of Mach. What NeXT calls "Mach 2.5" is somewhere between what CMU calls Mach 2.0 and Mach 2.5. CMU Mach added NFS and user-level paging objects as the major externally visible functionality-- NeXT's Mach has NFS but not user-level paging objects. -Chuck Charles Swiger | cs4w@andrew.cmu.edu | standard disclaimer ----------------+---------------------+--------------------- I know you're an optimist if you think I'm a pessimist.
From: ldubois@syndetics.be (Luc Dubois) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:05:15 +0100 Organization: Syndetics Research Message-ID: <1997012412051516151134@pool011-126.innet.be> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net> <5c8d55$9lv@client3.news.psi.net> Tim Triemstra <TimT@asiatlanta.com> wrote: > jchan@apk.net (Jerome Chan) wrote: > >> Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac > > > >MacOS 8. > > I would have to believe that they will leave behind the MacOS name because of > the diverging paths of OS development (ie: new 7.x series releases will > continue - supposedly - even after Rhapsody is released.) I would expect, > however, that the call it something equally boring like MacOS for Mach v1.0 or > something of that nature... QuickStep, QuickStep, I wanna do the QuickStep... OK, Apple has QuickTime as a cross-platform technology, there is (still) some thought of having QuickDraw (the GX and 3D flavors) as a cross-platform technology, what better name could they choose for the cross-platform OS, I ask you. Oh, that's right, you asked me... Luc -- Syndetics Research | Authors of Synema(tm) Director (c) 1992-1996. Herderstraat 1 | Thesaurus construction software for the 3740 Bilzen - Belgium | Information Retrieval industry.
From: Aeldrik Pander <aeldrik@delphi.tn.tudelft.nl> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Logitec Mouse on a NeXT Keyboard Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:47:34 +0100 Organization: Technical University Delft, Lab. Seismics & Acoustics Message-ID: <32E89346.2C4D@delphi.tn.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, About two years ago I read some documentation on a WWW-site about wiring a Logitec bus mouse to a NeXT Keyboard. This was done by simply replacing the plug and rewiring some of the coloured wires. I really don't know where to find the site anymore (wiped bookmarks). Anyone knows about this item or can tell me more ? Cheers ! Aeldrik ------------------------------------------------------------ Aeldrik Pander aeldrik@delphi.tn.tudelft.nl Lab. Seismics & Acoustics room D252 Delft Technical University +31 15 2782021 ------------------------------------------------------------
From: jens@necromancer.pop-frankfurt.com (Jens Kleemann) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: Feedback to Apple about MacOS and Rhapsody Date: 24 Jan 1997 11:28:59 GMT Organization: IPf.net - Frankfurt, Germany Message-ID: <5ca6dr$3ik@main.ipf.de> References: <32E640C7.4A09@ubs.com> <lewisda-ya023580001301971423110001@news.dal.ca> <AEFFE2E9-33667@206.173.240.224> <E40EAx.2u1@icgned.nl> <howarth-ya02408000R1401971845550001@news.ececs.uc.edu> <32E4F261.739A@ubs.com> <5c4f7v$l98@news.digifix.com>? In-Reply-To: <32E640C7.4A09@ubs.com> >I think most mac users will freak when they see the command line. I *know* >that the front end *should* take care of everything.. but whats the reality. >My knowledge of the NEXT is limited. Do you have to mess with sendmail, crontab, >/dev etc? Yes we have, but it would be a 1 week hack for some next-programmers to write a nice gui frontend for that tools (except sendmail, but its complexity should seldom be needed). B.T.W. If Apple forgets some Gui for a nice unix tool - then there are enough programmers out to fill this gap !! -- Jens Kleemann NeXTSTEP, UNIX Developer Berliner Str. 235 WWW,HTML,CGI,DATABASE 63067 Offenbach Custom Projects Tel: 0049 69 888791 Administration jkleemann@acm.org kleemann@stud.uni-frankfurt.de ---- NeXTMail + MIME welcome -------------------------
From: dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca (Seamus Dunne) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: HELP! User account keeps quitting... Date: 24 Jan 1997 07:16:26 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Message-ID: <5c9nka$k2m$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> PROBLEM: When I login as user, the usual, expected things happen: dock appears Desktop seems to build, THEN the color wheel (or beach ball, if you prefer) spins for a few seconds and THEN the machine quits, reverting back to the login box-----again and again. However, if I login as root everything is OK. I've created yet another user account, no problems, then logged out and tried logging in as the new user, but to no avail. Same story as the 1st user. Also I've inspected the all of the "dot-files (like .NeXT). Nothing seems to be out of order. Tried changing their names temporarily (to .33Appinfo from .Appinfo, for example), [after making a copy of these, for safety reasons]. Still no dice. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance... answer here or my email: dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca Seamus -- If I can't die happily-- I'd rather not die at all. Anon
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701231416.JAA09587@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: c463de9520085179994d6eecc11b8a02 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 09:16:05 -0500 Subject: Re: PPP on the NeXTNeXTNeXT Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: c463de9520085179994d6eecc11b8a02 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: severine@itis.com (S. Roberts) Original Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:49:04 -0600 > Alrighty, I've got my Moosman NeXT. So, what might you kids suggest > insofar as PPP apps, etc., to run this puppy? If you have a browser (of any sort) checkout http://www.peak.org/~luomat/next/ that has all the links you should need -- and if it doesn't, drop me a note. Follow the "OmniWeb" icon if you need a NeXTStep web browser Some helpful links: ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next (PEAK FTP site -- the one I work at) ftp://peanuts.leo.org/pub/next (Peanuts FTP site -- in Germany, also excellent -- you can also find the FAQ at their site: http://peanuts.leo.org/index-e.html ftp://ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/apps/internet/www/OmniWeb/OmniWeb.2.5b2/OmniWeb.2.5b2.N.tar.gz (for the OmniWeb browser I mentioned above) http://www.thoughtport.com:8080/PPP/ The PPP FAQ can be found at: http://www.thoughtport.com:8080/PPP/NeXT_PPP_FAQ.html Drop me a note or drop by my web page for more info. I've tried to make my page a place where someone who doesn't know anything about NS can drop by and find the links they need for what they need -- so if you need something that isn't there, drop me a note so the next person who needs it will find it there. Sounds simple, eh? TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) If you have a web page about NeXTStep|OpenStep, email me the URL!
From: TimT@asiatlanta.com (Tim Triemstra) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Cost of a NeXT Web Site? Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 14:32:19 GMT Organization: Alpha Star International Message-ID: <5bo2s9$d3q@client3.news.psi.net> References: <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu> In article <5bjnc2$b79@news.asu.edu>, sugee@imap2.asu.edu wrote: > >I doubt that many advocates and customers like Chylser, CyberSlice, >Nissan, and etc. as the list goes on, will argue about the merits of >using NeXT's Web technologies for deploying their Web sites. We have all >heard plenty and are proud of what is being accomplished. > >However, what I haven't heard anything about, something which curiously >dawned on me recently and after reviewing what some of these folks are >doing, is the cost of implementing and deploying these Web Sites. Can >anybody provide approximate costs or actual figures of sites like these? >I do respect people's anonymity. Sue, I think you would have to be looking at a developers' license (enterprise as they are calling it now) for $5000 and the WebObjects product which will run you around $25,000 from my memories :) I am not sure exactly what this gets you because there are issues of linking to databases etc that could require extra costs but I think that $30,000 will pretty much cover your up-front costs. Tim Triemstra ....... TimT@ASIAtlanta.com Alpha Star International, Atlanta GA USA
From: "Ala'a H. Jawad" <aljawad@kuwait.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:13:16 +0400 Organization: Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite Message-ID: <32E8D17E.5FB6@kuwait.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net> <MPG.d513adeef919554989680@news.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin Pompei wrote: > How about NEXTSTEP 5.0? Ammmm, in that case the name "Rhapsody" will be "Mecca" in my book :-) -A l a ' a
From: shawk@panix.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: 24 Jan 1997 13:08:28 GMT Organization: Digital Telemedia Inc. Message-ID: <5cac8c$hik$1@maceo.dti.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> Cc: jrudd@cygnus.com In <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> John Rudd wrote: > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > > > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might could get the > cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial ;-) > > Other possabilities? SuperStep, MacStep, The NeXT Mac (sort of a play on "The > NeXT Computer" [original name of the next cube]) ... > > anyone else? Windows2005
From: Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:41:35 GMT Organization: MiCMAC Sender: news@micmac.com Distribution: inet Message-ID: <E4HLxC.1pG@micmac.com> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <E2uL81.16F@micmac.com> <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net> <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com> Cc: jhsterne@mindspring.com.nospam This was written in comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep (<jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com>) by Jason S.: > Excuse me? My post was obviously pointing out just how petty an argument > over who posted what first was. First, you were not invited to comment on this! Second, the history of the posting had its importance in that case. But that's beyond you... > And my having "brain between my ears" > [sic] is completely unrelated to my knowing whether or not you have the > common sense to realize that when you and Lance posted has no relationship > to when you and Lance read said posts. You still don't get it! Too subtile for you I guess... Don't feel the need to answer me. I couldn't read your posts anymore! mc
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Resent-From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Resent-Message-Id: <199701231422.JAA09661@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701231422.JAA09661@nerc.com> Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 09:22:15 -0500 Resent-To: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: 4c5d38e21c3c93947654de4180eb3bf0 - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 09:21:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Clock stops after logout in Black Hardware References: 4c5d38e21c3c93947654de4180eb3bf0 - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: Emmett McLean <emclean@slip.net> Original Date: 23 Jan 1997 01:38:46 GMT > Is there an easy solution to fixing the clock on > your Cube if the clock stops when the machine is > turned off. Sounds like a dead battery. Goto any camera shop and ask for the CR123. These are available for about $9 each. Actually, that's the # for a slab battery, I'm not 100% sure if they are the same. You might be able to tell by bringing your battery to the camera shop. TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) If you have a web page about NeXTStep|OpenStep, email me the URL!
From: jens@necromancer.pop-frankfurt.com (Jens Kleemann) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: 24 Jan 1997 18:31:47 GMT Organization: IPf.net - Frankfurt, Germany Message-ID: <5cav6j$mi5@main.ipf.de> References: <32E8D17E.5FB6@kuwait.net> <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com>?<32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com>?<59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth>?<59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk>?<5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org>?<32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net>?<32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com>?<5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de>?<5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>?<32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net>?<5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com>?<jchan-ya023580002201971536530001@news.apk.net>?<MPG.d513adeef919554989680@news.xmission.com>?96 In-Reply-To: <32E8D17E.5FB6@kuwait.net> On 01/24/97, "Ala'a H. Jawad" wrote: >Kevin Pompei wrote: > >> How about NEXTSTEP 5.0? > >Ammmm, in that case the name "Rhapsody" will be "Mecca" in my book :-) How about !babylon (Mac,Openstep,Java (even windows with softwindows), Postscript,...., Perl (aehm :-) ))! without negative thoughts .... -- Jens Kleemann NeXTSTEP, UNIX Developer Berliner Str. 235 WWW,HTML,CGI,DATABASE 63067 Offenbach Custom Projects Tel: 0049 69 888791 Administration jkleemann@acm.org kleemann@stud.uni-frankfurt.de ---- NeXTMail + MIME welcome -------------------------
From: altenber@acpub.duke.edu (Lee Altenberg) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: 25 Jan 1997 00:55:47 GMT Organization: MHPCC Message-ID: <5cblmj$s8r@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <5cac8c$hik$1@maceo.dti.net> <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> Cc: jkheit@cnj.digex.net In <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> John Kheit wrote: > shawk@panix.com wrote: > > In <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> John Rudd wrote: > > > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > > > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) > > > > > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might > > > could get the cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial > > > ;-) > > Just a note...I didn't come up with the MaX name... I believe > Lawson English came up with MaXT, and then someone else shortened > it to MaX. I in all my un-originality said that's neeto :) BTW, > that would be pretty neeto, that MaX commic dude...but not exactly > a family oriented character... Watch out mickey...ooohhh :) > I of course, would favor NEXTSTEP 5. But someone suggested a new name which I liked --- APEX. It fits in with the Unix naming conventions---Irix, AIX, HPUX---and it has AP as in APPLE, and it has the imagery of the top of the mountain. You climb the mountain and guess what is growing up at the top? An apple tree, of course. -- ======================================================================= Lee Altenberg, Ph.D. Research Affiliate, University of Hawai`i at Manoa Office: Maui High Performance Computing Center 550 Lipoa Parkway, Suite 100 Kihei, Maui HI 96753 Phone: (808) 879-5077 x 296 (work), (808) 879-5018 (fax) E-mail: altenber@mhpcc.edu <MIME and NeXT Mail o.k.> Web: http://pueo.mhpcc.edu/~altenber/ =======================================================================
From: nurban@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Nathan M. Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: Rhapsody running OpenStep, Nextstep & MacOS???? Date: 24 Jan 1997 21:47:12 -0500 Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5cbs7g$vig@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> References: <32E961CD.20D6@ozemail.com.au> In article <32E961CD.20D6@ozemail.com.au>, Greg Alexander <galexand@ozemail.com.au> wrote: > I know very little of Next's products. My _guess_ is that they > include OpenStep an operating environment, and NextStep a System. > OpenStep actually runs on top of NextStep. Yes.. though they have renamed the latest version of NEXTSTEP to "OPENSTEP for Mach", to add to the confusion. :) > Applications written for NextStep run only on NextStep, but > OpenStep run on NextStep or ANYTHING that OpenStep runs on > (including NT?). Yes.. well, you have to recompile for each architecture and have separate binaries, but they all share the same source code. > So my question is about Rhapsody. > We've heard Rhapsody will run MacOS stuff. Whatabout Next Stuff? OpenStep NeXT stuff, yes. But an OpenStep version of NEXTSTEP has only recently existed; most of the available software for is written for the old NEXTSTEP, not OpenStep. That probably won't run on Rhapsody. > Will Rhapsody applications be portable like OpenStep? Yes. Rhapsody will _be_ OpenStep. -- Nathan Urban | nurban@vt.edu | Undergrad {CS,Physics,Math} | Virginia Tech
From: pubah@rio.nutecnet.com.br (Carlos Andre (pubah@rio.nutecnet.com.br)) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT/NEXTSTEP T-shirt and mug? Date: 24 Jan 1997 23:01:10 GMT Organization: The Pubah Foundation Message-ID: <5cbevm$hqm@srv4-poa.nutecnet.com.br> References: <01bc06c2$a9cc6ca0$240246cb@athena> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Danny Lau wrote: Three years ago I worked for a project on NEXTSTEP/Intel, and my associates had this booklet called "NeXT Promotional Items". It is a company called Hermann Marketing which sells NeXT t-shirts, mugs, jackets, ... etc. Does it still sell these things? If it does, how can I contact them? Or does anyone else make NeXT promotional gimmicks these days? I appreciate your information for alliviating my nostalgia... --- ... Toi, mon amour, ou es-tu ce moment et ce soir? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Danne, Take a look at my previous Hermann Marketing solicitation Date: 30 Dec 1996 09:51:17 -0500 From: "SPO_2" <team2@hermann.com> To: "Carlos Andre" <pubah@rio.nutecnet.com.br> Carlos Please find below the quote you requested for the Next merchandise. Please note minimum order quantities on the t-shirts and sweatshirts is 72 pieces, 1500 decals, 144 mugs, 50 desk folders, and 50 tote bags. Please feel free to call if you have questions. 800-590-1001 ________________________________________________ From: SPO_5 on Mon, Dec 30, 1996 9:16 AM To: SPO_2 TO: CARLOS ANDRE GOMES DE SILVA HERE IS THE QUOTE YOU PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED. QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS CALL US HERE AT HERMANN MARKETING. THANK YOU. ------------------------------------------------------------- 01) THE CLASSIC NEXT LOGO T-SHIRT ITEM # 5180 $4.95 ------------------------------------------------------------- XXL UPCHARGE.............. $1.70 ------------------------------------------------------------- 02) THE NEXTSTEP LOGO T-SHIRT ITEM # 5180 $5.95 ------------------------------------------------------------- (7) SCREEN CHARGE......... $20.00 EA. XXL UPCHARGE.............. $1.70 ------------------------------------------------------------- 03) PENCILS 500 PC. MINIMUM ITEM # PB11 $.20 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- (2) SCREEN CHARGE......... $22.00 EA. (2) PMS MATCH CHARGE...... $28.00 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- 04) CROSS CLASSIC BLACK PENS ITEM # 2502 $21.10 ------------------------------------------------------------- 24 PC. MINIMUM ------------------------------------------------------------- 05) DECALS ITEM # 3238 $.10 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- (5) SCREEN CHARGE........ $50.65 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- 06) TURTLENECK BY VANTAGE ITEM # 0250 $20.95 ------------------------------------------------------------- (5) SCREEN CHARGE........ $20.00 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- 07) GLASS MUG ITEM # 511 $5.40 ------------------------------------------------------------- SET-UP CHARGE............. $42.50 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- 08) LEATHER DESK FOLDER ITEM # L-58221 $85.20 ------------------------------------------------------------- DIE CHARGE................ $33.75 ------------------------------------------------------------- 09) NEXT SWEATSHIRT (BLACK) ITEM # 18230 RD $16.10 ------------------------------------------------------------- (5) SCREEN CHARGE........ $20.00 EA. ------------------------------------------------------------- 10) MEDIUM ZIPPER TOTE BAG ITEM # 138 $11.95 ------------------------------------------------------------- SCREEN CHARGE............ $41.25 ------------------------------------------------------------- 11) MOUSE PAD ITEM # FP1 $3.70 ------------------------------------------------------------- PRINT RUN CHARGE......... $560.00 500 PC. MINIMUM carlos andre The Pubah Foundation pubah@rio.nutecnet.com.br rio de janeiro - brazil rio 2004 - candidate city
From: john_zollinger@arkona.com (John Zollinger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.advocacy Subject: Re: So what do I need to catch the Apple/Next wave?? Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:04:25 GMT Organization: Arkona, LLC Message-ID: <32e9bad9.14819349@news.xmission.com> References: <5brihp$1hti@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> warnerr@beethoven.cs.colostate.edu ( richard warner) wrote: > I have the NEXTSTEP 3.3 Developer system. A proud owner of a >Color NEXTSTATION - until just recently prepping to buy high-end >laptop (six solid years from the NEXT, not bad). Had pretty well given >up on NEXT *gasp* until the big news. WOOHOO!! LIFE. Way to go Stevey. > So now I'm wondering, can I load NS on the laptop and then load >Win/95 under it to access my office productivity stuff - or should I get >the SoftPC emulator? What do I need to do/can I get both NS and Win/95 >on the same box, preferably Win/95 running in a window under NS. Well, softpc runs only Win3.1 stuff last I heard. The best way to do it is to have two partitions on your hard drive. One for OPENSTEP for Mach, one for Win95 or NT. When you boot you can choose to go into either. Under NEXTSTEP you will be able to access the FILES on your Win95 partition, but you won't be able to access your NEXTSTEP stuff under Win95. I have Win95, NT, and OPENSTEP for Mach on my machine. > Another line of questions has to do with development. NEXTSTEP >native vs OPENSTEP. Is there an OPENSTEP developer product for Intel boxes >and do I want it instead of NS native? Is it the product that has a >future?? Yes. You can get either OPENSTEP for Mach (much like what you have on your black box). Or you can get OPENSTEP for Windows NT. Which is basically the OPENSTEP development tools, but in the NT OS. The good part about the OPENSTEP NT is that you can still get at your MS Office apps since they run fine in NT, the downside is that you don't have the nice mach OS, and you can't do any nifty unix things, you don't have all the great NeXT apps like mail, librarian, and, well, it's NT. If you are used to NEXTSTEP, moving to NT is quite annoying. > Another line of questioning - is NS 3.3 Developer the latest/greatest >still for Intel boxes (if OPENSTEP is the way to go - which version?). The latest is 4.1, and I think 4.2 is coming out shortly? > Lastly, a RFO (Request For Opinions) as to which is better as of today: >Buy a new Intel box and put NS/OPENSTEP on it - or wait to purchase until >some hot Apple/NEXT combo hits the market. Of particular interest to >me is in the realm of laptops, but also interested in opinions generally. Good question. I have no idea. I'm holding off on getting an Apple box until I see what horror's they do to the NeXT UI. If Apple keeps their current UI, I'll stick with OPENSTEP for Mach on Intel. :-) If they see-the-light and keep the majority of the current UI, then I will consider getting one. Ciao,
From: Bill Mitchell <bill.mitchell@mercyic.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: NeXT OS ?s Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:16:27 -0600 Organization: Avalon Networks Inc. Message-ID: <32E942CB.2B61@mercyic.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm just bought a new cube with NeXT OS 2.0 yesterday. I have seen mention of NeXT OS 3.3. But I can only find Ver 3.0 NeXT OS cd's for sale. What is the current OS version and where/how can I get it? Thanks in advance. Bill Mitchell
From: John Kheit <jkheit@cnj.digex.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out (was Re: Games on NeXTstep (Was Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back!)) Date: 24 Jan 1997 23:20:21 GMT Organization: monoChrome, Inc., NJ, USA Message-ID: <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <5cac8c$hik$1@maceo.dti.net> shawk@panix.com wrote: > In <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> John Rudd wrote: > > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: > > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) > > > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might > > could get the cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial > > ;-) Just a note...I didn't come up with the MaX name... I believe Lawson English came up with MaXT, and then someone else shortened it to MaX. I in all my un-originality said that's neeto :) BTW, that would be pretty neeto, that MaX commic dude...but not exactly a family oriented character... Watch out mickey...ooohhh :) -- Thanks, later, John Kheit; Self expressed... monoChrome, Inc. | ASCII, MIME, PGP, SUN, & NeXTmail OK NeXT/OPENSTEP Developer | mailto:jkheit@cnj.digex.net Telepathy, It's coming... | http://www.cnj.digex.net/~jkheit New York Law School | You make the best of what's still around...
From: Greg Alexander <galexand@ozemail.com.au> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Rhapsody running OpenStep, Nextstep & MacOS???? Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:28:45 +1100 Organization: NHJ NORTHLINK COMMUNICATIONS Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32E961CD.20D6@ozemail.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was hoping someone could enlighten me... I know very little of Next's products. My _guess_ is that they include OpenStep an operating environment, and NextStep a System. OpenStep actually runs on top of NextStep. Applications written for NextStep run only on NextStep, but OpenStep run on NextStep or ANYTHING that OpenStep runs on (including NT?). So my question is about Rhapsody. We've heard Rhapsody will run MacOS stuff. Whatabout Next Stuff? AND Will Rhapsody applications be portable like OpenStep? Yes, I have no idea about Next. All of the above could be wrong! So thanks in advance for any info! Greg
From: bchin@us.net (Bill Chin) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: Rhapsody running OpenStep, Nextstep & MacOS???? Date: 25 Jan 1997 09:52:04 GMT Organization: US Net - MD,DC,VA ISP - info@us.net Message-ID: <5ccl44$md8@news.us.net> References: <32E961CD.20D6@ozemail.com.au> Greg Alexander <galexand@ozemail.com.au> wrote: >I know very little of Next's products. My _guess_ is that they >include OpenStep an operating environment, and NextStep a System. >OpenStep actually runs on top of NextStep. Not really. See below. >Applications written for NextStep run only on NextStep, but >OpenStep run on NextStep or ANYTHING that OpenStep runs on >(including NT?). Okay. First, there is an issue of binary compatibility. Each different architecture necessitates a recompilation. A NEXTSTEP application is an application written for the NEXTSTEP API's, compiled for a NEXTSTEP supported architecture. That's NeXT machines, select Intel, select HP-RISC, and select SPARC machines. OPENSTEP for Mach, which runs on the same platforms as NEXTSTEP except HP, has the backward compatibility stuff to run NEXTSTEP apps. That means OPENSTEP Enterprise (a.k.a. OPENSTEP for NT) and OPENSTEP for Solaris _cannot_ run NEXTSTEP applications. Nor can they run binaries compiled for OPENSTEP/Mach. Rather, the source code of an OPENSTEP application can be compiled on another OPENSTEP environment, assuming there is nothing in the source code that relies on a particular environment (Mach calls, kits that don't exist on the target platform, etc.). Plus, the OPENSTEP API is slightly different than the NEXTSTEP API's, so NEXTSTEP applications must be converted to OPENSTEP. There are automated tools to help in this, but it still must be cleaned up by hand. >So my question is about Rhapsody. >We've heard Rhapsody will run MacOS stuff. Whatabout Next Stuff? Apple has stated that Rhapsody will be OPENSTEP compliant, which means that applications written to the OPENSTEP API exclusively can be compiled and run on Rhapsody. Also, that means that Rhapsody cannot execute applications compiled for NEXTSTEP nor can it compile source code written for NEXTSTEP. >Will Rhapsody applications be portable like OpenStep? Rhapsody will be OPENSTEP compliant, so it won't be _like_ OPENSTEP, it will be an implementation of OPENSTEP from the original inventors. However, if Apple releases a framework, say, a QuickDraw GX framework that does not exist on other OPENSTEP implementations and an application is written for Rhapsody that uses that framework, then that application cannot be compiled on other OPENSTEP implementations. Clear as mud? BTW, I really don't understand all this fuss about kernels. As long as it supports pre-emptive multitasking, multi-threading, demand-paged and segmented virtual memory system, dynamically loadable kernel modules, fast IPC, flies like a ATF and is as stable as a rock, then I'm happy. How many of us are going to actually write at the kernel level? Hopefully, very, very few. That's the whole point behind the object frameworks. Whether that kernel is Mach, NuKernel, or Bob's Special Super Duper Kernel, who cares except a few engineers at Apple and a few ISVs? I'd rather they fulfill the list above with a 10 year old kernel in which I'll almost never see a kernel panic than if they used a 3 month old kernel that still has to go through teething pains. It's even funnier (and sadder) to see criticisms of Mach 2.x as ancient from people that are running MacOS <= 7.x or DOS/Windows 3.1/95. -- Bill Chin - bchin@us.net - NeXTmail/MIME welcomed
From: Emmett McLean <emclean@slip.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Root account inactivated Date: 23 Jan 1997 01:42:20 GMT Organization: Slip.Net Message-ID: <5c6fls$p5h$3@news1.slip.net> Hi, I recently purchased a NeXT machine with Black Hardware. Ah, I've used the nu command to change the passwords for all users. But upon changing the password for root a message saying something like "root not active" appears. So I haven't been able to assign the root password. Any suggestions or comments? Thanks, Emmett
From: lkb@lkba.com (Larry Blische) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: 25 Jan 1997 14:42:22 GMT Organization: Charm.Net Baltimore Internet Access, Hon (410) 558-3900 Message-ID: <5cd64e$hon$1@news2.charm.net> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <5cac8c$hik$1@maceo.dti.net> <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> <5cblmj$s8r@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> Cc: altenber@acpub.duke.edu In <5cblmj$s8r@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> Lee Altenberg wrote: >In <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> John Kheit wrote: >> shawk@panix.com wrote: >> > In <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> John Rudd wrote: >> > > In <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> Tim Young wrote: >> > > > MacinNeXT? Nexintosh? -can't seem to think of a cool name! >> > > How about PowerStep? (PowerPC/PowerMac + Openstep) >> > > >> > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might >> > > could get the cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial >> > > ;-) >> >> Just a note...I didn't come up with the MaX name... I believe >> Lawson English came up with MaXT, and then someone else shortened >> it to MaX. I in all my un-originality said that's neeto :) BTW, >> that would be pretty neeto, that MaX commic dude...but not exactly >> a family oriented character... Watch out mickey...ooohhh :) >> > >I of course, would favor NEXTSTEP 5. But someone suggested a new name which I >liked --- APEX. It fits in with the Unix naming conventions---Irix, AIX, >HPUX---and it has AP as in APPLE, and it has the imagery of the top of the >mountain. You climb the mountain and guess what is growing up at the top? An >apple tree, of course. Gotta get the 'e' right tho': APeX -- Larry Blische * Consultant/Programmer * UNIX/X/NEXTSTEP/Embedded Systems/Etc. LKB Associates, Inc. * 1000 Fell Street * Baltimore, Maryland 21231 USA 410 804 1828 * NeXT, MIME and ASCII mail Welcome! lkb@lkba.com * http://www.charm.net/~lkb/
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Date: 23 Jan 1997 07:14:11 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5c7343$3fv@news.digifix.com> References: <E4E78y.Mu0@gorilla.nbn.com> In-Reply-To: <E4E78y.Mu0@gorilla.nbn.com> On 01/21/97, Tim Holmes wrote: > >So a great deal has been said about what NeXT will do >to or for Apple, but has anyone heard any details on >what's in store for NeXT? > >Since I work in a mostly Mac environment, but need to use >an Intel machine, I would like to be able to use NeXTStep >if it could run Mac programs and do file sharing and the >other Appletalk/networking stuff. > >Rumors, etc, welcome. > There is a new letter on NeXT's site from Dr. Ameilo that explains the plans for NeXT products. Although what you are describing is pretty much Apple Rhapsody. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: Brian Sutherland <bcs@onramp.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Networking NeXTs Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:58:45 -0600 Organization: OnRamp Technologies; ISP; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA Message-ID: <32EA3BC5.7858@onramp.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a NeXT Turbo Dimension and NeXT Turbo Color Station. One has a NeXT Color Printer and one has a CDROM drive. I want to be able to share these devices between the two computers. I only have the Academic version of NeXTSTEP 3.3 and no real good manuals. I do not know how to set up a Netinfo or any type of NeXT server. Can anyone help me via email or phone? Or if you have any lead to where I can find NeXT networking information it would be helpful. Please reply to both email and newsgroup so I do not miss your answer. Thanx -Brian bcs@onramp.net
From: Stefano Pagiola <spagiola@worldbank.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Formatting JAZ-Disks Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:37:52 -0500 Organization: World Bank Message-ID: <32EA5300.63C4@worldbank.org> References: <5c7mn1$r5j@hagen.amg.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin Mocker wrote: > does anyone know, how to format a JAZ Disc (IOMEGA) under NEXTSTEP 3.3 ?? There's a NeXTAnswer on this. Go to NeXTAnswers and search for Jaz. -- Stefano Pagiola 850 N Randolph Str No.817, Arlington VA 22203, USA All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer
From: kroger@ucla.edu (kroger@ucla.edu) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:00:55 -0700 Organization: UCLA Distribution: inet Message-ID: <kroger-2501971200550001@softmachine.psych.ucla.edu> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <E2uL81.16F@micmac.com> <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net> <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com> <E4HLxC.1pG@micmac.com> In article <E4HLxC.1pG@micmac.com>, mic@micmac.com wrote: > This was written in > comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep > (<jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com>) by Jason > S.: > > > Excuse me? My post was obviously pointing out just how petty an > argument > > over who posted what first was. > > First, you were not invited to comment on this! > Second, the history of the posting had its importance in that case. But > that's beyond you... > Not invited to comment? Not invited to comment? You post on usenet for millions to see and you say somebody was not invited to comment? How big an idiot can somebody be? I don't know what your argument was about (nor do I care) but I don't like to miss a chance to tell an idiot what an idiot he is.
From: Roger Brisson <rob1@psu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: using modem through terminal Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:16:00 -0500 Organization: Pennsylvania State University Message-ID: <32EA6A00.46EC@psu.edu> References: <32E50617.1DC8@gl.umbc.edu> <E4DKoA.Lp@gateway.ali.bc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Allan Noordvyk <allan@cetus.ali.bc.ca> Allan Noordvyk wrote: > > In comp.sys.next.misc Gregory Pacholczyk wrote: > > i just bought an 040 25 cube and a modem. how do i dial into my ISP > > through terminal. ie. how do i issue the ATDT ###-#### command) > > You want to use the tip command. You can find out more via > "man tip", but here's the basics: > > If you have a 14.4 modem on serial port A, you will probably > want to add the following lines to your /etc/remote file: > > fast|cufa19200|Dial-out on cufa at top speed (currently 19200 baud):\ > :dv=/dev/cufa:br#19200:tc=BASIC: > > You would then type the command: > > tip fast > > and then you would have a direct connection to your modem at > 19200 baud rate (faster than 14.4 so that you can handle bursts > of data which uncompresses at a faster effective rate than 14.4). > At this point you should type your AT command. > > If you want a nice GUI for handling of this (as well as zmodem > file transfers, etc.) you might want to purchase TipTop.app from > Tip Top software. > > If you want to do more than have a terminal window into > your ISP (ie. you would like surf the web) you should ask about > setting up a PPP network connection. > I have a couple of related questions re: modem use. Is there a way to tell what the baud rate is for a given connection? I do use kermit for some work, but is there another way of getting vital stats for a modem connection? Also, is it possible with NeXTStep PPP to establish a 28.8 or above connection (assuming the ISP supports this)?
From: Roger Brisson <rob1@psu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: PPP on the NeXTNeXTNeXT Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:26:26 -0500 Organization: Pennsylvania State University Message-ID: <32EA6C72.5E29@psu.edu> References: c463de9520085179994d6eecc11b8a02 - <199701231416.JAA09587@nerc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: luomat@peak.org On a related PPP topic: So far I can only get PPP going using kermit with ppp 2.2. I'd like to make getting a connection friendlier, and I have downloaded the SimpleInternextStarter software, along with DialUp, but before this will work I need to add some script to the SIS login procedure for the connection to work. I've tried adding the necessary text to my 'chat' file that includes my login id and password, but this gave me a 'fatal error' during the login. The ISP login requires that I specify which type of connection I wish to make after providing the password (PPP, SLIP, etc), and this is the script I have to add. I'm hoping someone can provide some assistance on this. Also, does Mail.app work with PPP and POP mail? Is there a way to make it work? -- Roger Brisson (rob1@psu.edu)
From: stop@spam.com (see sig for my real address) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Re: Logitec Mouse on a NeXT Keyboard Date: 26 Jan 1997 00:52:47 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. (WAVE) Message-ID: <5ce9sv$e282@crash.videotron.ab.ca> On 01/23/97, Aeldrik Pander wrote: >About two years ago I read some documentation on a WWW-site about >wiring a Logitec bus mouse to a NeXT Keyboard. Dancing Bear Enterprises (www.dancingbear.com) used to sell an adapter for this, but I just checked their site and they've quit selling NeXT hardware. Their page does still have a few pointers to other vendors in this vanishing market, so that might help you. -- -------------------------------------------- Gary Finley, Univ. of Alberta Psychology Dept. Network manager, Web manager, postmaster gfin@psych.ualberta.ca (NeXTmail welcome!) http://web.psych.ualberta.ca/staff_bios/gary.finley.htmld
From: togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:58:06 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001701971957130001@news.quicksilver.com> rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) wrote: >> rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) wrote: >> <SNIP> > Lance, I'm a programmer, and from a programmer point of view it was >possible to write 32-bit code without contortions on 68K from its inception >(and have that code continue to run without modification on later models >with larger physical address spaces). This did not become true on x86 >until two unique memory models and some years later (80386). > > I'm a programmer too. If I find myself thinking about register size, I'm usually dealing with a performance issue. At that point I'm interested in the size of the data path and clock speed as much as register size. Depending on what's going on, I might me interested in address size too. Of course if you're writing compilers, assemblers or libraries, you might have a different take. From what I've seen, people who use higher level lanugages could care less about bitness - other than bragging rights. They seem interested in speed only. It's not like they have much say about library or API performance anyway. Fact is, you can do anything with a 4-bit ALU that can be done with a 32-bit ALU and if the langugage you're dealing with has the right support, bitness is faily transparent. >> > Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers >> >and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and >> >only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium >> >and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted >> >to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a >> >processor. >> > >> >> Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by >> computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you >> mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. > > So was it accepted in 1982 or not? > As I recall, the rage in 1982 was about data bus size vs. ALU size in determining bitness. The Z-80 could do 16-bit register and indirect arithmetic but was labeled an 8-bit processor. The 6502 couldn't do either but was still labeled 8-bit. Personally, I prefer data bus size as the indicator of bitness. However, this is one holy war I'll pass on for now.
From: scott@leorg.ucdavis.edu (Ryan Scott) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: setting dns Date: 23 Jan 1997 17:42:24 GMT Organization: University of California, Davis Message-ID: <5c87u0$sai$1@mark.ucdavis.edu> References: <glenn-ya02408000R2201971616430001@news.europa.com> glenn@nowsoft.com (Tod L. Glenn) wrote: >Greetings, > >I am trying to determine how to set the dns address on NeXTstep 3.3. I >found where to configure IP address and router. Any help is appreciated. >This is a lone NeXT box in a mac and PC shop. > >---- >Tod L. Glenn >Internet Services Administrator >Now Software ITG >webmaster@nowsoft.com >---- >http://www.nowsoft.com >ftp://ftp.nowsoft.com >listserv@nowsoft.com If, by dns address, you mean what the address of your dns server is, then set up a file called /etc/resolv.conf with the following lines domain domain.name # This is your domain nameserver ip.address # The first dns nameserver nameserver ip.address # Another dns nameserver See man 5 resolver for more info. --Ryan
From: boehring@biomed.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Daniel Boehringer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: phillips videoCD on openstepMach4.1 via NEXTTIME? Date: 23 Jan 1997 19:03:17 GMT Organization: Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum, Rechenzentrum Message-ID: <5c8cll$q4v$1@sun579.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> has anybody managed to play a phillips videoCD using NEXTTIME? daniel
From: cb@guinan.mm.se (Christian Brunschen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software Subject: Loginwindow Workspace hook Date: 25 Jan 1997 23:56:20 GMT Organization: - Message-ID: <5ce6j4$aim@mn5.swip.net> Keywords: loginwindow dwrite Workspace hook Hi, I am trying to start a different program than Workspace at login time. The manual page for 'loginwindow' states that dwrite loginwindow Workspace /Users/cb/bin/loginprogram should make loginwindow start /Users/cb/bin/loginprogram instead of Workspace.app at login time. I have tried doing just that. Result ? Nothing. No change in the behaviour of loginwindow. Workspace still gets started, and my program doesn't. I am running 3.3 on Black 040 hardware. If anyone has any ideas, please share them with me. A search at NeXTAnswers revealed nothing. Best regards, // Christian Brunschen -- -- Christian Brunschen cb@mm.se
From: atheurer@cs.utexas.edu (Andrew Matthew Theurer) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: 25 Jan 1997 23:57:09 -0600 Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin Message-ID: <5cernl$1ul2@jeckle.cs.utexas.edu> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> <5cblmj$s8r@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> <5cd64e$hon$1@news2.charm.net> Ident-User: atheurer >>> > > I also sorta liked John Kheit's suggestion of "MaX". Might >>> > > could get the cartoon/comic character for a logo/commercial >>> Just a note...I didn't come up with the MaX name... I believe >>> Lawson English came up with MaXT, and then someone else shortened >>> it to MaX. I in all my un-originality said that's neeto :) BTW, >>> that would be pretty neeto, that MaX commic dude...but not exactly >>> a family oriented character... Watch out mickey...ooohhh :) >>I of course, would favor NEXTSTEP 5. But someone suggested a new name which >>liked --- APEX. It fits in with the Unix naming conventions---Irix, AIX, >>HPUX---and it has AP as in APPLE, and it has the imagery of the top of the >>mountain. You climb the mountain and guess what is growing up at the top? >An >>apple tree, of course. >Gotta get the 'e' right tho': APeX how about MacDaddy :) Andrew Theurer.
From: HisMajesty <fatjelly@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:16:59 +0800 Organization: The WatchTower Message-ID: <32EB12FB.E68@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> References: <32D1967A.59E2@aw.sgi.com> <32BA667C.403A@sfbayrun.com> <59f2t1$ohl@youth.yth> <59oq37$q7l@ironhorse.plsys.co.uk> <5a2g5h$hu7@gaea.titan.org> <32c5d7fe.257162@pbinews.pacbell.net> <32D0A342.3068@neosoft.com> <5b5jkv$rad@fuchur.rmi.de> <5bp6a5$fcs@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <32E4ABDB.24DD@mail.icon.net> <5c2ule$bsg$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <5cac8c$hik$1@maceo.dti.net> <5cbg3l$sn@news4.digex.net> <5cblmj$s8r@kaopala.mhpcc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's probably MacOS 8. Why do you people think that Apple intends any credit to NeXT in name for the new OS anyway. Apple bought NeXT, period. NeXT belongs to Apple. Final.
From: darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com (Darin Johnson) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 17 Jan 1997 19:24:37 GMT Message-ID: <slrn5dvkfg.r74.darin@connectnet1.connectnet.com> References: <5bk49q$d31@dailyplanet.wam.umd.edu> <rbarris-ya023280001501972306580001@news.quicksilver.com> <doenges.853411327@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> <32DFCD07.3AAE@Fujitsu.com.au> >> In fact, some early (~70s) computer had a >> 12 bit CPU (can't remeber what it was and who made it) that worked bit >> seriell internally, but nobody would call it a one bit computer. Burroughs had a variable-bit computer. Word size was not fixed, at least not in the instruction stream. It was stack-based, so you couldn't classify it based on register size. Don't know details about it, it may have had an upper limit based on the ALU though. -- Darin Johnson darin@connectnet.com
From: jon@mgmt.purdue.edu (Jon Haveman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: 26 Jan 1997 14:58:47 GMT Organization: Purdue University Message-ID: <5cfrf7$p4h@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> References: <32EB12FB.E68@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> HisMajesty <fatjelly@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> writes > It's probably MacOS 8. Why do you people think that Apple intends any > credit to NeXT in name for the new OS anyway. Apple bought NeXT, > period. NeXT belongs to Apple. Final. There's always somebody who'll just kind of suck all the fun out of anything, isn't there. -- Jon Haveman
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: holmes@gorilla.nbn.com (Tim Holmes) Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Message-ID: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> References: <E4E78y.Mu0@gorilla.nbn.com> <5c7343$3fv@news.digifix.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 02:52:20 GMT Scott Anguish (sanguish@digifix.com) wrote: : On 01/21/97, Tim Holmes wrote: : > : >So a great deal has been said about what NeXT will do : >to or for Apple, but has anyone heard any details on : >what's in store for NeXT? : > : There is a new letter on NeXT's site from Dr. Ameilo that explains : the plans for NeXT products. : Although what you are describing is pretty much Apple Rhapsody. I haven't heard of Rhapsody running on Intel. Is this a new development? I think it would be a good move... Tim Holmes holmes@gorilla.nbn.com
From: MWRon@metrowerks.com (MW Ron) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior,comp.sys.mac.oop.powerplant,comp.lang.pascal.mac,comp.sys.mac.programmer.tools,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.games,comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.arch.embedded,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: [ANN] METROWERKS TO ACQUIRE LATITUDE PORTING TECHNOLOGY Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 10:33:00 -0500 Organization: Metrowerks Message-ID: <MWRon-2701971033010001@aumi1-a12.ccm.tds.net> METROWERKS TO ACQUIRE LATITUDE PORTING TECHNOLOGY CodeWarrior(R) To Be Hosted On Sun Microsystems(R)' Solaris(TM)-based UNIX(R) Workstations AUSTIN, Texas--January 27, 1997--Metrowerks Inc. (NASDAQ: MTWKF, TSE/ME:MWK), one of the world's leading providers of software development tools, today announced that it had signed a letter of intention to acquire the principle assets of The Latitude Group, Inc., of Mountain View, Calif. Latitude's principle assets include a porting library which allows Mac(TM) OS applications to be ported to UNIX-hosted operating systems, including Sun Microsystems' Solaris 2.3+, Silicon Graphics(R)' IRIX(TM) 5.2+ and Hewlett-Packard(R)'s HP-UX(R) 9.03+. The Latitude porting libraries redirect Mac OS commands to the target operating system, with a UNIX library containing a portable implementation of the Mac OS API at its core. Metrowerks will also take over providing the Latitude porting technology to The Latitude Group, Inc.'s existing clients already under contract. Metrowerks intends to use the Latitude porting library to port CodeWarrior to run on Sun Microsystems' Solaris-based UNIX workstations in order to offer this platform as a host for embedded systems development. Sun's Solaris-based UNIX workstations are widely used by embedded systems programmers worldwide. The Latitude porting libraries will be incorporated in a new product, CodeWarrior Latitude. CodeWarrior Latitude will continue to support the UNIX-hosted operating systems outlined above. Metrowerks also plans to extend CodeWarrior Latitude to enable the port of Mac OS applications to run on Rhapsody, Apple's Next Generation OS. This will allow Metrowerks' existing clients to more easily port their existing applications to Rhapsody. As part of the agreement between Metrowerks and The Latitude Group, Inc., David Hempling, president and CEO of The Latitude Group, Inc., will join Metrowerks as the technical lead for CodeWarrior Latitude. Mr. Hempling was a co-founder of Quorum Software Systems Inc., which created Latitude. "The Latitude porting technology offers Metrowerks a great opportunity to move CodeWarrior to UNIX," said Jean Belanger, chairman and chief executive officer. "By offering embedded systems versions of CodeWarrior on Windows, Mac OS and, now, UNIX, our embedded story will be more compelling than ever. Implementing support for Rhapsody in CodeWarrior Latitude will allow Mac OS developers to move their applications to Apple's Next Generation OS much faster than would otherwise be the case." Pricing and Availability Metrowerks plans to ship CodeWarrior Latitude in the summer of 1997. CodeWarrior Latitude will include all available targets in one library package and will sell for $399. UNIX-hosted versions of CodeWarrior for embedded development will be available in late 1997. About Metrowerks Founded in 1985, Metrowerks develops, markets and supports a complete line of programming tools for building applications for a number of operating systems intended for use on desktop computers or embedded systems, including Mac(TM) OS, Windows(R) 95, Windows NT(TM), PlayStation(TM) OS, BeOS(TM) and Palm OS(TM), running on a number of microprocessors including 68K, PowerPC(TM), MIPS(TM) and x86 microprocessors. Metrowerks' CodeWarrior products are used by over 65,000 registered users in 70 countries. Additional information on Metrowerks and its products is available via e-mail at "info@metrowerks.com", from our web site at "http://www.metrowerks.com", or by calling (800) 377-5416 or (512) 873-4700. ### Metrowerks, the Metrowerks logo and CodeWarrior are registered trademarks of Metrowerks Inc. Apple and Macintosh are registered trademarks, and Mac is a trademark, of Apple Computer, Inc. Windows and WindowsNT are registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corp. in the United States and other countries. All other company and product names may be registered trademarks or trademarks of their respective companies/holders, and are hereby recognized. Statements in this press release regarding CodeWarrior Latitude are forward looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties, including successful and timely development of CodeWarrior Latitude and customer acceptance of the product. -- METROWERKS Ron Liechty "Software at Work" MWRon@metrowerks.com http://www.metrowerks.com/about/people/rogues.html#mwron
From: foster@aix2.uottawa.ca (Peter Foster) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Re: Logitec Mouse on a NeXT Keyboard Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace Date: 26 Jan 1997 18:57:10 GMT Organization: University of Ottawa Message-ID: <5cg9e6$j5k@mercury.cc.uottawa.ca> References: <5ce9sv$e282@crash.videotron.ab.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm using a logitech mouse on my nextslab now. I got it from computerActive, at http://www.computeractive.on.ca/cAi/index.html They made some adaptors to go between the mouse and the socket on the keyboard. Telephone 613-225-4824. Peter
From: michal@gortel.phys.ualberta.ca (Michal Jaegermann) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: using modem through terminal Date: 26 Jan 1997 19:17:46 GMT Organization: Disorganized Bits Message-ID: <5cgakq$qje@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> References: <32E50617.1DC8@gl.umbc.edu> <E4DKoA.Lp@gateway.ali.bc.ca> <32EA6A00.46EC@psu.edu> Roger Brisson (rob1@psu.edu) wrote: : : I have a couple of related questions re: modem use. Is there a way to : tell what the baud rate is for a given connection? I do use kermit : for some work, but is there another way of getting vital stats for : a modem connection? Type "show" and "help show" at your kermit prompt (and "help set" as you are at it). : Also, is it possible with NeXTStep PPP to establish : a 28.8 or above connection (assuming the ISP supports this)? This depends on your hardware. On my "pizza box", non Turbo, I am able to use reliably 57600 as a speed between a serial port an my modem when in kermit. On the other hand I had a few incidents of a buffer overrun with this speed on a ppp connection so I dropped it down there to 38400, which cured the problem. It does not matter to me very much in practice as my line speed is limited by a modem to 14400 and I still have to see 4:1 modem compression on a real file. But transfer speeds around 3000 cps, or somewhat higher, for a text file are normal with my setup. It seems from reports by others that not all serial ports, even with "black hardware" only, are created equal and some folks experienced serial ports troubles with higher speeds. If you use Intel hardware a connection between a quality of your serial port and max speeds is even more pronounced. Michal
From: dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca (Seamus Dunne) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need Shakespeare FTP'd Date: 27 Jan 1997 04:59:35 GMT Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Message-ID: <5chcnn$br$2@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Would there be anyone out there who will FTP me some Shakespeare files, the Sonnets and Poems, bundled on early releases of NextStep. These came with complete Shakespeare. I accidentally trashed my 'Sonnets ....' files; I do have the rest of the Shkspre intact. Thank you Seamus -- If I can't die happily-- I'd rather not die at all. Anon
From: jon@mgmt.purdue.edu (Jon Haveman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Date: 27 Jan 1997 13:52:24 GMT Organization: Purdue University Message-ID: <5cibuo$s76@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> References: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> Tim Holmes writes > Scott Anguish (sanguish@digifix.com) wrote: > : On 01/21/97, Tim Holmes wrote: > : > > : >So a great deal has been said about what NeXT will do > : >to or for Apple, but has anyone heard any details on > : >what's in store for NeXT? > : > > : There is a new letter on NeXT's site from Dr. Ameilo that explains > : the plans for NeXT products. > > : Although what you are describing is pretty much Apple Rhapsody. > > > I haven't heard of Rhapsody running on Intel. Is this a new > development? I think it would be a good move... That's been my impression as well. Although, in reality, I've found the information that I've been able to find just pretty confusing about it. Anyway....what would be the downside to Apple from releasing Rhapsody on Intel? The upside seems to be just sooooo huge. -- Jon Haveman
From: aconti@interaccess.com (Aaron J. Conti) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: miscTableScroll object in the MiscKit Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 10:35:08 PST Organization: InterAccess, Chicago's best Internet Service Provider Message-ID: <5cilns$ddn@nntp.interaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 I am trying to use the table scroll from the miscKit. So far, I have used it in a couple different programs. Every time that I have used it so far, it has only been for displaying information. This allows me to fill all of the fields in the table programatically. Now I need to use it to display a list of item and let the user fill in values in the second and third columns. I can't seem to figure out what I am not setting to allow the user to select a single cell as apposed to a row and enter data into the cell. Any information on how to do this (or if it is impossible) would be appreciated. Please respond by e-mail to prichard@isdinc.com. I don't have reqular news access and had to borrow somebody else's account for this. Peter Richardson prichard@isdinc.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <luomat@nerc.com> Message-ID: <199701271555.KAA08101@nerc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: 774e3de66d8a38ae1cc0063747b9f70a - From: Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 10:55:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Loginwindow Workspace hook Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com References: 774e3de66d8a38ae1cc0063747b9f70a - Organization: Princeton Theological Seminary Responding To: cb@guinan.mm.se (Christian Brunschen) Original Date: 25 Jan 1997 23:56:20 GMT > I am trying to start a different program than Workspace at login > time. The manual page for 'loginwindow' states that > > dwrite loginwindow Workspace /Users/cb/bin/loginprogram > > should make loginwindow start /Users/cb/bin/loginprogram instead of > Workspace.app at login time. if I do 'ps -auxwww|grep "Workspace.app/Workspace"' I see that Workspace.app has the argument "-LoginProgram YES" Perhaps you could try turning that "off" by using dwrite Workspace LoginProgram NO I'll take credit only if it works ;-) TjL -- Tj Luoma (luomat@peak.org) If you have a web page about NeXTStep|OpenStep, email me the URL!
From: ikouts@adonis.clnsnet.ariadne-t.gr (Ioannis Koutselas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help with Slip/PPP on NS2.1 (Repost) Date: 27 Jan 1997 16:36:47 GMT Organization: National Technical University of Athens, Greece Message-ID: <5ciliv$p57@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr> Dear Netters, Some help please to someone who would like to have PPP Slip off an old next running 2.1 NextStep. PLease tell if such a connection is possible and if so with which package. Thank you in advance. Previous postings had wrong mail address which sould be ikouts@isosun.airadne-t.gr Thank you again. Ioannis -------- (an object farmer).
From: jburton@nwu.edu (Joshua W. Burton) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Need Shakespeare FTP'd Date: 27 Jan 1997 18:11:30 GMT Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, IL, US Message-ID: <5cir4i$s9i@news.acns.nwu.edu> References: <5chcnn$br$2@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> dogstar@unixg.ubc.ca (Seamus Dunne) wrote: > I accidentally trashed my 'Sonnets ....' files; I do have the > rest of the Shkspre intact. Thank you Seamus I just emailed them to him. You probably want to check whether he got them before sending them as well. I have found a proof |================================================ Of Fermat's conjecture, but | Joshua W Burton (847)677-3902 jburton@nwu.edu Haiku is too terse. |================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: hhoff@schwaben.de.NOSPAM (Holger Hoffstaette) Subject: Re: NeXT in the movie 'Flatliners' Followup-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy Sender: news@flop.schwaben.de Organization: NeXT Ghetto People feat. St.Eve Message-ID: <E4oMBq.FJ@flop.schwaben.de> References: <32eab496.0@192.33.12.30> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:33:26 GMT NOTE: FOLLOWUPS TO COMP.SYS.NEXT.ADVOCACY (note follow-up!) jon klein wrote: > What an absolutely silly thing to be bringing up, but I saw the movie > Flatliners last night after many years of not having seen it. > > Very early in the movie, the camera pans over an office, passing by > what could not have been anything else but a NeXT monochrome monitor. > It had the right stand and the same rectangular back. > > Has anybody noticed this? Is there something wrong with me for having > gotten so excited? Please advise... I also noticed this when I saw the movie the first time. Must have something to do with: a) sexy stuff in the bedroom b) people & things coming back from the dead At least the movie had *something* be be excited about :-) Holger -- Object web weaver | @work: hhoff@media-group.de Media group | @home: hhoff@schwaben.de (NeXTmail & PGP ok) Stuttgart, Germany | OPENSTEP. Resistance is futile.
From: jklein@freon.artificial.com (jon klein) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: 27 Jan 97 04:14:23 GMT Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst Message-ID: <32ec2b9f.0@192.33.12.30> References: <32EB12FB.E68@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5cfrf7$p4h@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> Jon Haveman (jon@mgmt.purdue.edu) wrote: : HisMajesty <fatjelly@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> writes : > It's probably MacOS 8. Why do you people think that Apple intends any : > credit to NeXT in name for the new OS anyway. Apple bought NeXT, : > period. NeXT belongs to Apple. Final. : There's always somebody who'll just kind of suck all the fun out of : anything, isn't there. But if we're lucky, it'll be both! Kinda like... Star Trek: The Next Generation System 8: APeX (I liked that one!) Anything but NeXTstep 98 will do for me. -- -jon klein jklein@freon.artificial.com Caper will do it for me.
From: andrewc@vasci.com (Andrew Cunningham) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer.codewarrior,comp.sys.mac.oop.powerplant,comp.lang.pascal.mac,comp.sys.mac.programmer.tools,comp.sys.mac.programmer.misc,comp.sys.mac.programmer.games,comp.sys.mac.oop.misc,comp.arch.embedded,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer Subject: Re: [ANN] METROWERKS TO ACQUIRE LATITUDE PORTING TECHNOLOGY Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:15:20 -0800 Organization: Vibro-Acoustic Sciences Inc Message-ID: <andrewc-2701971315200001@192.2.2.3> References: <MWRon-2701971033010001@aumi1-a12.ccm.tds.net> In article <MWRon-2701971033010001@aumi1-a12.ccm.tds.net>, MWRon@metrowerks.com (MW Ron) wrote: > METROWERKS TO ACQUIRE LATITUDE PORTING TECHNOLOGY If anyone is interested in my experience (which has been quite positive overall) as a C/C++ Latitude developer feel free to email me. We have ported our application ,AutoSEA, to HP-UX and SGI. In a nutshell, Latitude gives you System 6.0.7 + 32 Bit Quickdraw plus a smattering of Syustem 7 API's. No magic there. Things that have no equivalent on a UNIX platform are just not there (e.g. Process Manager etc). The speed is pretty good - Latitude is a mature product that is now up to V3.x. I dearly hope Metrowerks provides SGI and (particularly) HP-UX C++ compilers as the native ones are bloody awful! Andrew -------------------------- Andrew Cunningham Vibro-Acoustic Sciences Inc 5355 Mira Sorrento Pl #100 San Diego CA 92121 USA Ph: +1-(619) 597 7535 Fax: +1-(619) 597 7414 e-mail: andrewc@vasci.com http://www.vasci.com -- Andrew Cunningham Vibro-Acoustic Sciences Inc Ph: +1-(619) 597 7535 Fax: +1-(619) 597 7414 e-mail: andrewc@vasci.com
From: togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:18:04 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> rbarris@quicksilver.com (Rob Barris) wrote: >> This is oh so true. I've got two 68K MOT instruction set manuals. One >> calls the processor a 16 bit unit, the other proudly announces it as >> an advanced 32 bit processor (SAME processor part number). One manual >> was before Apple literature described the 68K as a 32 bit processor, >> the other after - connection? This reminds me of the transistor count >> game that was played with transistor radios. I once disassembled a >> 14-transistor Radio Shack radio. 2 of the transistors were wired and >> used as diodes, 4 had ALL THREE leads soldered together and tacked >> here and there on the PCB. So, what I really had was an 8 transistor >> radio and 2 of those had little if any effect on performance. It's ALL >> in the marketing.... > > Bogus. Hey, I didn't write the manuals. If you think it's bogus, talk to MOT! The fact is, the timing of the manuals was just as I described. Looks like a clear attempt at impressing newbies. Unfortunately, for MOT, newbies and end users rarely order instruction set manuals. However, the point wasn't entirely lost as Apple had good time with it. > Fact is all 68K's offer a unified 32-bit programmer model, for pointers >and integers. True, the original 68000 had a 16-bit external data bus and >only 24 bits of physical address bus, but this is also why we call Pentium >and Pentium Pro "32 bit processors" and not 64 bits: it's commonly accepted >to look at the ALU word width or address space size as the "bitness" of a >processor. > Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. > You attribute malice or deception to simple confusion in literature and >terminology. The fact remains that flat 32-bit code could be and was >written on the 68000 from the very beginning, lots of it, this was and is a >benefit to its users. > This is an example what maketing does best. There was no confusion in the literature. MOT knew exactly what they were doing. I don't think malice or deception fits here. The programmers know what's going on and that's what counts. I'm surprised someone didn't add up all register bits and go with that figure. > If you don't believe me, why not pop over to comp.arch and ask some >folks around there whether they think the 68K family qualifies as a 32-bit >processor design, or if Moto tried to deceive anyone by promoting it as >such. > I don't give a hoot what comp.arch thinks about the 68K. I was pointing out what MOT, the manufacturer, said about.
From: myers@meitner.physics.lsa.umich.edu (Eric Myers) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Russian Localization? Date: 28 Jan 1997 00:14:21 GMT Organization: Department of Physics, University of Michigan Message-ID: <5cjgct$ei8@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu> We have a visitor from Russia who may end up using one of our NeXT workstations (black NeXTstation running NS 3.0). The Preferences tool does not list Russian as an option, but he would like to be able to use a Russian keyboard and fonts. Is there anything available that we can get from the Net?
From: myers@meitner.physics.lsa.umich.edu (Eric Myers) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: security patches for NeXTStep 3.0 Date: 28 Jan 1997 00:16:33 GMT Organization: Department of Physics, University of Michigan Message-ID: <5cjgh1$eii@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu> Is there an ftp site for security patches for NeXTStep? I know how to get these for HP and Sun, but have not found a similar site for NeXT.
From: Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT in the movie 'Flatliners' Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:06:39 -0500 Organization: Demiurge Development Group Message-ID: <32EE4E3F.52F6@friday.com> References: <32eab496.0@192.33.12.30> <dtq-2601972351150001@shiva1-mclean-195.his.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Doug Quinn <dtq@his.com> Doug Quinn wrote: > > Yo Jon -- > > In fact, you did see a NeXT computer. I don't know if it's visible in the > video release, but in the threatre I clearly remember seeing the Cube as > well (sitting under the table, I believe). Just one of those > money-grubbing product placements -- sorta like when you see that Howard > the Duck has a Mac Plus during the opening pan of that film... :-) > In howie the duck, I wouldn't be surprised that it was a money grubbing move on the part of the movie... In Flatliners, nope-- doubt they paid a sent more than what it cost to pick up a cube for cheap... The cube + black monitor makes one hell of a nice high-tech looking system. I wouldn't be surprised to catch a glimpse in a movie or tv special with some of those stupid 3D email interfaces running [as an overlay, obviously]. On the east coast, there is a well known (though I forget which) yuppy oriented furniture store that uses original black hardware as the in-stroe 'mock' computer props (instead of those stupid cardboard boxes you see everywhere else). b.bum
From: Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT in the movie 'Flatliners' Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:07:23 -0500 Organization: Demiurge Development Group Message-ID: <32EE4E6B.62D4@friday.com> References: <32eab496.0@192.33.12.30> <dtq-2601972351150001@shiva1-mclean-195.his.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Doug Quinn <dtq@his.com> Doug Quinn wrote: > > Yo Jon -- > > In fact, you did see a NeXT computer. I don't know if it's visible in the > video release, but in the threatre I clearly remember seeing the Cube as > well (sitting under the table, I believe). Just one of those > money-grubbing product placements -- sorta like when you see that Howard > the Duck has a Mac Plus during the opening pan of that film... :-) > In howie the duck, I wouldn't be surprised that it was a money grubbing move on the part of the movie... In Flatliners, nope-- doubt they paid a sent more than what it cost to pick up a cube for cheap... The cube + black monitor makes one hell of a nice high-tech looking system. I wouldn't be surprised to catch a glimpse in a movie or tv special with some of those stupid 3D email interfaces running [as an overlay, obviously]. On the east coast, there is a well known (though I forget which) yuppy oriented furniture store that uses original black hardware as the in-stroe 'mock' computer props (instead of those stupid cardboard boxes you see everywhere else). b.bum
From: Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:58:52 GMT Organization: MiCMAC Sender: news@micmac.com Distribution: inet Message-ID: <E4pvy5.4Ey@micmac.com> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <E2uL81.16F@micmac.com> <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net> <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com> <E4HLxC.1pG@micmac.com> <kroger-2501971200550001@softmachine.psych.ucla.edu> Cc: kroger@ucla.edu This was written in comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep (<kroger-2501971200550001@softmachine.psych.ucla.edu>) by kroger@ucla.edu: > Not invited to comment? Not invited to comment? You post on usenet for > millions to see and you say somebody was not invited to comment? How big > an idiot can somebody be? This was obviously ironic since you were absolutely unable to understand what was the point! In another time (250 years ago...) this would have been an invitation to my people for a bastinado... =;) But we are more civilized now: I'm sending the bumpkin (you) to the oubliette (my kill file)... mc
From: Michel Coste <mic@micmac.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: Macintosh, Steve Jobs, and Next Step are all back! Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:42:57 GMT Organization: MiCMAC Sender: news@micmac.com Distribution: inet Message-ID: <E4pv7M.4Bu@micmac.com> References: <32BB734D.167F@netcom.ca> <AEE1AB21-14A94@199.35.216.52> <32bcb04d.34390634@news.sover.net> <E2tMvF.5Mo@micmac.com> <32bde91c.35158999@news.sover.net> <E2uL81.16F@micmac.com> <32c0162f.14922692@news.sover.net> <jhsterne-ya023280002412961838040001@news.earthlink.net> <E4D5BA.4F1@micmac.com> <jhsterne-ya02408000R2101972141330001@news.mindspring.com> <E4HLxC.1pG@micmac.com> <kroger-2501971200550001@softmachine.psych.ucla.edu> Cc: kroger@ucla.edu This was written in comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep (<kroger-2501971200550001@softmachine.psych.ucla.edu>) by kroger@ucla.edu: > I don't know what your argument was about (nor do I care) Funny! > but I don't like > to miss a chance to tell an idiot what an idiot he is. So you're obviously the idiot here! mc
From: jklein@freon.artificial.com (jon klein) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT in the movie 'Flatliners' Date: 27 Jan 97 12:48:53 GMT Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst Message-ID: <32eca435.0@192.33.12.30> References: <32eab496.0@192.33.12.30> <dtq-2601972351150001@shiva1-mclean-195.his.com> <32EE4E3F.52F6@friday.com> Bill Bumgarner (bbum@friday.com) wrote: : On the east coast, there is a well known (though I forget which) yuppy : oriented furniture store that uses original black hardware as the : in-stroe 'mock' computer props (instead of those stupid cardboard boxes : you see everywhere else). Oh please oh please oh please tell me where. I'm on the east coast, and even if it's nowhere near me, I'm willing to drive :) -- -jon klein jklein@freon.artificial.com Caper will do it for me.
From: severine@itis.com (S. Roberts) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Online NextStep Guide Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:57:29 -0600 Organization: Intranet Message-ID: <severine-1801971257290001@c7.itis.com> References: <severine-1701970922510001@c6.itis.com> <5bpeac$944@news.platinum.com> In article <5bpeac$944@news.platinum.com>, longsine@platinum.com (Gary W. Longsine) wrote: > All the NeXT documentation (i think) is now on-line at: > http://www.next.com > > The main archive of cool shareware/freeware/gplware/demoware is: > http://www.peak.org/ftp/pub/next/nextstep.html > > Other useful stuff: > http://www3.pair.com/mccarthy/nextstep/index.html > http://www.misckit.com/ Thanks, Gary, for your helpful reply. After I received a few similar emails, I realized I should have specified that I have to get a disk and the OS for my machine. It is in the meantime that I've wanted to take a look at docs and info. Thanks again. -- severine@itis.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: manroe@manki.toppoint.de (Manfred Roehr) Subject: Fujitsu MO -DOS formated ... Message-ID: <E4opG1.12n@manki.toppoint.de> Sender: manroe@manki.toppoint.de (Manfred Roehr) Organization: NeXT Club Schwerte, Germany Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:40:49 GMT Hello, does anybody know, how a DOS formated MO-medium from the 3.5 Fujitsu-drive could reformat into a NeXT-formated one? thanks for help
From: Erik Pennebaker <epenneba@uiuc.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Installing NEXTSTEP on an NT machine Date: 28 Jan 1997 17:12:54 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Message-ID: <5clc2m$21s@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <mignault-ya023480002801971150220001@news.nytimes.com> mignault@nytimes.com (John Mignault) writes: >Hi, I want to get a copy of NeXTStep for Mach and start working with it in >order to prepare for Rhapsody. My current setup is this: >A Pentium 90, 80M Ram, with the following drive setup: >The machine has a primary EIDE controller and a secondary IDE controller as >well as a Adaptec 1542 SCSI card. >On EIDE controller: >Boot drive is a 1G EIDE drive, currently setup to dual boot NT 4.0 or >Win95, using the NT bootloader. There is a single (C:\) partition. >Second drive is a 1.2G EIDE drive, with 2 partitions, both FAT. >On the IDE controller is a 450M IDE drive, currently formatted as a FAT >drive, but not really used for anything, as well as a IDE CDROM. >On the SCSI card I have a CDROM and a 2G drive with a Linux fs, which I >boot to from a floppy. >My first impulse is to try to install onto the 450 IDE drive. Lacking that, >I could get another external SCSI drive and hook that up if I could install >NEXTSTEP on there and boot it from that drive. Can the NeXT bootloader >coexist with NT's? I don't think you'll have enough space on the 450 for the install and any growing room... If you can spare the change, I'd get another drive. From what I've heard, and my experience, SCSI stuff works much better, so another 1GB scsi disk would be your best move and install off you SCSI cdrom (thats what you meant, right?) As far as boot loaders, I think winNT and microsoft work off a boot.ini file, rather than a boot record. NeXTStep's boot loader seems a little limited. I would actually recomment using lilo via linux. I've got my win95/openstep/linux system running it. Look at the examples. Booting to nextstep is the same as booting to dos; just tell it which partition and which disk. For win95/winNT, you'd go through lilo, boot to the NT/95 drive, which will than lauch the NT loader, and you would choose between win95/winNT. Someone correct me if I'm wrong....I only had a short experience with NT/95 coexisting. I know people who go through several different loaders:) It seems like NeXTStep's is limited to booting off the first drive. lilo supports 16(?) oses, and is pretty flexible about where stuff is. Make sure you have boot disks for everything, of course. -Erik -- ----- Erik Pennebaker | http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/epenneba | epenneba@uiuc.edu Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat. CCSO Workstation Support Group, University of Illinois My opinions
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:31:16 -0600 From: amas@lhr-sys.dhl.com Subject: File Format Repository Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Message-ID: <854468310.11711@dejanews.com> Organization: Deja News Usenet Posting Service Could anyone provide me with a list of links relating to file formats used by OpenStep. More spefically the .snd file format and the icon file format. Thanks Andre-John -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
From: "Brent B. Powers Swaps Programmer x2293" <powers@ml.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 28 Jan 1997 17:55:42 -0500 Organization: Merrill Lynch Sender: powers@swapsdvlp02 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <u02wwsxbea9.fsf@ml.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net> <5c05bt$rn2@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL> <5clftv$q80@bamboo.verinet.com> jstevens@bamboo.verinet.com (John Stevens) writes: > In article <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL>, > Drs G. C. Th. Wierda <G.C.Th.Wierda@AWT.nl> wrote: > >>So you agree that the original IBM PC was an 8-bit machine? And some > >>80386-based machines were 16-bit? > > > >Here is my recollection for what it is worth. > > > >I would say that the original 8088 was a 16-bit processor. > > Externally, it has/had an 8 bit bus that, > according to rumor, was for "backwards" compatibility and > to save money, since at that time 16 bit hardware was the *NEW* thing > and was therefore more expensive than 8 bit hardware. > > >The 8086 was the 16bit data path version, I would say the 'normal chip' for > >that series, as the 8088 was the 'constrained chip'. > > Yup. There were a few brave souls who manafactured 8086 (and even > 80186) based boards. Yes Virginia, there *was* and 80186 chip! > > >The 80286 and the 80386 are generally the same 32bit chip. > > Uh, no. (As Lord Blaine taught us. . .) That turns out no to be the > case. The 80826 was vastly different from the 80386. Examples: > the ability to have a flat memory space (segments *GONE*, whee!) and > much different virtual memory support. > > The flat memory model was, in fact, the talk of the town at that time. > > >Except that the > >80286 had a couple of errors (like switching between real and protected mode) > >that were solved in the 80386. The 80386 came in both a constrained version > >(16bit data path, the SX types) and a 'normal' version (32bit data path). > > Yup. I still know people who own and use '386sx boxes. > > >Between the 80386 and the 80486, there is a big difference. The 80386 was a > >mess. Intel (smartly) distilled a RISC-like core from the 80386 and put the > >other backwards compatibility stuff in an emulation on the chip. A floating > >point part was added. > > Yah, but Intel released some versions of the '486 without FP capabilities. > > Best guess: during test the FP Coprocessors didn't work correctly, so > they disabled 'em, packaged 'em any way and sold 'em for low end (cheap) > systems. Ummm, didn't the 486sx have a different pinout? That would argue against this. The FP Coprocessor is a relatively expensive piece of silicon, so they would have had reason to drop it for cost-savings. > > >The m68k processor, as far as I know, was 32bit from the start, but came in > >'constrained versions'. I think the original 68000 had a 16bit data path. > >There even exists an m68k which has an 8bit data path). > > The 68008. Which was used in a late model Sinclair computer, the > color one (can't for the life of me remember whether is was called > the Rainbow, or some other kitschy "color" name). > > >I don't know exactly what the advantages were of a smaller data path, but I > >would guess it meant cheaper memory. > > Cheaper parts. Yup. And at that time, the 68000 didn't have any > virtual memory capabilities, or memory protection (hence the reason the > Amiga didn't have memory protection designed into the OS). > > The 68010 was introduced to support on-chip VM, but still required, if > I remember correctly, an extermal MMU chip. > > John S. -- Brent B. Powers Merrill Lynch powers@ml.com
From: carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:52:13 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <carol1-1801971152140001@17.219.103.153> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> In article <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by > computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you > mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. I belive that the Saturn chip developed by HP is a 4 bit CPU with a 4 bit ALU. The model exposed to the RPN programmer may be 64 bits, but the internal hardware is only 4 bits at a time. I've seen assembly code for this littel machine and it's rather tedious. Power consumption is a real issue. Why do in 64 parallel bits what can be cycled through 4 bits with lots less power? -- Andrew Carol carol1@apple.com I do not speak for Apple. All opinions are my own.
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: File Format Repository Date: 28 Jan 1997 22:09:45 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5cltf9$1b4@news.digifix.com> References: <854468310.11711@dejanews.com> In-Reply-To: <854468310.11711@dejanews.com> On 01/28/97, amas@lhr-sys.dhl.com wrote: >Could anyone provide me with a list of links relating to >file formats used by OpenStep. More spefically the .snd >file format and the icon file format. > .snd is a fairly standard sound format (like the same as on the Mac) icon files are just plain old .tiff files. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep 4.X Query Date: 28 Jan 1997 22:18:24 GMT Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <5cltvg$4fm$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> References: <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk> Cc: pageant@dircon.co.uk In <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk> Aled Davies wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm looking at putting NextStep/OpenStep on my Intel Workstation > and I have a bit of a query. Is OpenStep for Mach (intel) binary > compatable with older NextStep 3.3 applications, or do they need > to be recomplied to be made to work. ??? > They are binary compatable. > Also bearing in mind that im not a student anymore and probably > don't qualify for Next's academic pricing, if I'm not planning to > do any development (at least for the foreseable future) is it > really worth getting the development version ??. Presumably I can > upgrade from User to developer at a later date if I need to ??? > If you're not doing any GUI development, and thus don't need the GUI dev tools, you could still grab the gcc compiler someone was maintaining for nextstep, I think. It should be on the archives somewhere. Then you could at least compile standard unix tools if you want.. however, if you don't even need to do that, the user edition is just fine. And yes, you can just buy the developer distribution later if you want. You don't _have_ to buy them at the same time. -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com http://www.cygnus.com/~jrudd =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Smalltalk == Astronaut's tools. Awkward at first, but exceptional design C++ == A hammer. A SLEDGEHAMMER. Not cast metal, a big rock on a stick.
From: flood@cris.com (rob thompson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: reading disks in DOS Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 05:30:02 GMT Organization: SpiritOne Internet 503-240-8200 Message-ID: <5cmmvd$u5f@ridge.spiritone.com> Hi, At our workplace we have hardware that runs using Nextstep. We copied some data to floppy and were unable to read them. I was wondering what file system (assuming not FAT) that Nextstep uses. And If it is a unix file system if there is a driver or utility to read this disks. I'm sorry if this message is in appropriate for the newsgroup, but the best place to get answers is with the experts. Please email any suggestions Rob flood@cris.com -- I don't know exact configuration but I can find out.
From: "Brent B. Powers Swaps Programmer x2293" <powers@ml.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 28 Jan 1997 17:56:35 -0500 Organization: Merrill Lynch Sender: powers@swapsdvlp02 Distribution: inet Message-ID: <u02vi8hbe8s.fsf@ml.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> jstevens@bamboo.verinet.com (John Stevens) writes: > In article <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL>, > Drs G. C. Th. Wierda <G.C.Th.Wierda@AWT.nl> wrote: > >>So you agree that the original IBM PC was an 8-bit machine? And some > >>80386-based machines were 16-bit? > > > >Here is my recollection for what it is worth. > > > >I would say that the original 8088 was a 16-bit processor. > > Externally, it has/had an 8 bit bus that, > according to rumor, was for "backwards" compatibility and > to save money, since at that time 16 bit hardware was the *NEW* thing > and was therefore more expensive than 8 bit hardware. > > >The 8086 was the 16bit data path version, I would say the 'normal chip' for > >that series, as the 8088 was the 'constrained chip'. > > Yup. There were a few brave souls who manafactured 8086 (and even > 80186) based boards. Yes Virginia, there *was* and 80186 chip! > > >The 80286 and the 80386 are generally the same 32bit chip. > > Uh, no. (As Lord Blaine taught us. . .) That turns out no to be the > case. The 80826 was vastly different from the 80386. Examples: > the ability to have a flat memory space (segments *GONE*, whee!) and > much different virtual memory support. > > The flat memory model was, in fact, the talk of the town at that time. > > >Except that the > >80286 had a couple of errors (like switching between real and protected mode) > >that were solved in the 80386. The 80386 came in both a constrained version > >(16bit data path, the SX types) and a 'normal' version (32bit data path). > > Yup. I still know people who own and use '386sx boxes. > > >Between the 80386 and the 80486, there is a big difference. The 80386 was a > >mess. Intel (smartly) distilled a RISC-like core from the 80386 and put the > >other backwards compatibility stuff in an emulation on the chip. A floating > >point part was added. > > Yah, but Intel released some versions of the '486 without FP capabilities. > > Best guess: during test the FP Coprocessors didn't work correctly, so > they disabled 'em, packaged 'em any way and sold 'em for low end (cheap) > systems. Ummm, didn't the 486sx have a different pinout? That would argue against this. The FP Coprocessor is a relatively expensive piece of silicon, so they would have had reason to drop it for cost-savings. > > >The m68k processor, as far as I know, was 32bit from the start, but came in > >'constrained versions'. I think the original 68000 had a 16bit data path. > >There even exists an m68k which has an 8bit data path). > > The 68008. Which was used in a late model Sinclair computer, the > color one (can't for the life of me remember whether is was called > the Rainbow, or some other kitschy "color" name). > > >I don't know exactly what the advantages were of a smaller data path, but I > >would guess it meant cheaper memory. > > Cheaper parts. Yup. And at that time, the 68000 didn't have any > virtual memory capabilities, or memory protection (hence the reason the > Amiga didn't have memory protection designed into the OS). > > The 68010 was introduced to support on-chip VM, but still required, if > I remember correctly, an extermal MMU chip. > > John S. -- Brent B. Powers Merrill Lynch powers@ml.com
From: "Keith L. Swallow" <swallow@oar.net> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: TCL for NeXT (HELP) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:27:09 -0500 Organization: OARnet Message-ID: <32EEA76D.41C67EA6@oar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CC: swallow@oar.net Hello all, I need to find a copy of tcl or instructions for installing tcl 7.6 on a next with nextmach 1.0 .. I know its old... But it is what I have to work with. SO any assistance would be gratfully appreciated. Please just reply to this by mailing me : swallow@oar.net Also sorry for cross posting... I wanted to hit everybody that might be able to help... thanks again... -Sincerly Keith Lee Swallow Thanks again... --
From: pjb@imaginet.fr (Pascal Bourguignon) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Russian Localization? Date: 29 Jan 1997 01:21:18 GMT Organization: ImagiNET Message-ID: <5cm8me$qf3@belzebul.imaginet.fr> References: <5cjgct$ei8@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu> In article <5cjgct$ei8@thighmaster.admin.lsa.umich.edu> myers@meitner.physics.lsa.umich.edu (Eric Myers) writes: > We have a visitor from Russia who may end up using one of our NeXT > workstations (black NeXTstation running NS 3.0). The Preferences tool > does not list Russian as an option, but he would like to be able to use > a Russian keyboard and fonts. Is there anything available that we can > get from the Net? For the keyboard there's a /NextDeveloper/Demos/Keyboard.app tool with which you can build a russian keymap. There are also several russian postscript fonts (with different encodings, beware) available (have a look at ftp://ftp.peanuts.org/pub/next/ for example). __Pascal Bourguignon__
From: Eric Doenges <doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 29 Jan 97 11:38:10 GMT Organization: Lehrstuhl fuer Prozessrechner, TU Muenchen (Germany) Distribution: inet Message-ID: <doenges.854537890@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <u02vi8hbe8s.fsf@ml.com> Originator: doenges@nelion.lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de "Brent B. Powers Swaps Programmer x2293" <powers@ml.com> writes: >Ummm, didn't the 486sx have a different pinout? That would argue >against this. The FP Coprocessor is a relatively expensive piece of >silicon, so they would have had reason to drop it for cost-savings. But a different pinout does not necessarily mean a different chip. Many processors are availible in PGA and QFP packages with different pinouts, but identical silicon inside. I remeber reading at the time of the 486sx, that the 486sx was a normal 486 with the FPU disabled. The whole thing had nothing to do with technology, but with marketing. (Remeber, this was the time the AMD386 came out, and Intel did not want to loose their high margins on 486s. So they came up with the 486sx, which was priced to compete with the 40 MHz AMD386.). Later modell 486sx may have had different silicon, but the first generation 486sx were 80486 with the FPU disabled. The 80487sx was a complete 486 with the FPU enabled - if you plugged one of those in your 486sx system, the whole 486sx was disabled. -- Eric Doenges EMail:<doenges@lpr.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> "You don't have to swim faster than the shark, just faster than the guy next to you" - anonymous
From: togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:28:30 GMT Organization: SoVerNet, Inc. Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32e14540.11376132@news.sover.net> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32CDD2A9.7CB@rogerswave.ca> <32CF2646.473F@serv.net> <32D17A1F.65D8@ipoline.com> <01bbfc63$8827eb60$844904cb@crw033.crc.cra.com.au> <5av1nl$6hr@news.proaxis.com> <32d90cbd.6753174@news.sover.net> <rbarris-ya023280001201971750140001@news.quicksilver.com> <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net> <carol1-1801971152140001@17.219.103.153> carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) wrote: >In article <32e01423.3489833@news.sover.net>, togar@msn.com (Lance Togar) wrote: > >> Hardly. It MAY have been commonly accepted in the past - long past by >> computer standards. Now-a-days, you'd better explain just what you >> mean. My HP-48GX *calculator* has a 64-bit ALU. > >I belive that the Saturn chip developed by HP is a 4 bit CPU with >a 4 bit ALU. > >The model exposed to the RPN programmer may be 64 bits, but >the internal hardware is only 4 bits at a time. I've seen >assembly code for this littel machine and it's rather tedious. > >Power consumption is a real issue. Why do in 64 parallel bits >what can be cycled through 4 bits with lots less power? > The Saturn has a real 64-bit ALU while the internal/external data path is 4-bits. No doubt, the assembly code you've seen involves moving 4-bit "fields" in/out of the ALU. Many people consider assembly code tedious whatever the processor. Certainly, floating point operations with an integer ALU can be less than fun! The 64-bit ALU makes perfect sense when you consider that the CPU was specifically designed for floating point operations. As such, the ALU can hold the entire binary representation of a floating point number (mantissa and exponent). RPN programmers are generally unaware of CPU bit size because RPN deals with named variables that may contain one or more of a large variety of objects with floating point numbers being just one in the list. All of the Saturn CPU registers are static CMOS so I've missed your point concerning power consumption. BTW, with the 48GX, I can have the answers to some really heavy math problems before most PCs get the mouse cursor on the screen :). A lot cheaper to buy and run too not to mention that it fits in a coat pocket.
From: jstevens@bamboo.verinet.com (John Stevens) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 28 Jan 1997 11:18:39 -0700 Organization: Verinet Communications Message-ID: <5clftv$q80@bamboo.verinet.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net> <5c05bt$rn2@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL> In article <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL>, Drs G. C. Th. Wierda <G.C.Th.Wierda@AWT.nl> wrote: >>So you agree that the original IBM PC was an 8-bit machine? And some >>80386-based machines were 16-bit? > >Here is my recollection for what it is worth. > >I would say that the original 8088 was a 16-bit processor. Externally, it has/had an 8 bit bus that, according to rumor, was for "backwards" compatibility and to save money, since at that time 16 bit hardware was the *NEW* thing and was therefore more expensive than 8 bit hardware. >The 8086 was the 16bit data path version, I would say the 'normal chip' for >that series, as the 8088 was the 'constrained chip'. Yup. There were a few brave souls who manafactured 8086 (and even 80186) based boards. Yes Virginia, there *was* and 80186 chip! >The 80286 and the 80386 are generally the same 32bit chip. Uh, no. (As Lord Blaine taught us. . .) That turns out no to be the case. The 80826 was vastly different from the 80386. Examples: the ability to have a flat memory space (segments *GONE*, whee!) and much different virtual memory support. The flat memory model was, in fact, the talk of the town at that time. >Except that the >80286 had a couple of errors (like switching between real and protected mode) >that were solved in the 80386. The 80386 came in both a constrained version >(16bit data path, the SX types) and a 'normal' version (32bit data path). Yup. I still know people who own and use '386sx boxes. >Between the 80386 and the 80486, there is a big difference. The 80386 was a >mess. Intel (smartly) distilled a RISC-like core from the 80386 and put the >other backwards compatibility stuff in an emulation on the chip. A floating >point part was added. Yah, but Intel released some versions of the '486 without FP capabilities. Best guess: during test the FP Coprocessors didn't work correctly, so they disabled 'em, packaged 'em any way and sold 'em for low end (cheap) systems. >The m68k processor, as far as I know, was 32bit from the start, but came in >'constrained versions'. I think the original 68000 had a 16bit data path. >There even exists an m68k which has an 8bit data path). The 68008. Which was used in a late model Sinclair computer, the color one (can't for the life of me remember whether is was called the Rainbow, or some other kitschy "color" name). >I don't know exactly what the advantages were of a smaller data path, but I >would guess it meant cheaper memory. Cheaper parts. Yup. And at that time, the 68000 didn't have any virtual memory capabilities, or memory protection (hence the reason the Amiga didn't have memory protection designed into the OS). The 68010 was introduced to support on-chip VM, but still required, if I remember correctly, an extermal MMU chip. John S.
From: stefan@ping.at (Stefan Schneider) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: SSS Dec Quiz results, new Jan/Feb Quiz started Date: 29 Jan 1997 09:17:26 GMT Organization: Customer of PING - Personal InterNet Gate Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5cn4j6$k5r@peng.ping.at> The SSS Christmas Quiz has ended - already two weeks ago, sorry for the delay - and the winners are drawn. Plus: the new January/February Quiz has started NOW! (finally...) For Dec results as well as for the new Jan/Feb quiz question, please visit http://www.ping.at/members/stefan/quiz.html Deadline for the new quiz is February 27. As always, the winners will receive a free HelpViewer *or* LatinByrd license, or, alternatively, a rebate of upto US$ 99 on any NEXTSTEP application distributed by Stefan Schneider Software (including SuperDraw, SuperDebugger, and others). Have fun, - Stefan -- Stefan Schneider Software Dipl.Ing. Stefan Schneider Lerchenfelder St. 85/6 A-1070 Vienna, Austria, Europe voice/fax: +43-1-523-5834 e-mail: stefan@ping.at (NeXTMail preferred, MIME welcome) web: http://www.ping.at/members/stefan/
From: Christian Neuss <neuss@NO.SPAM> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO -DOS formated ... Date: 28 Jan 1997 16:16:03 GMT Organization: Technische Hochschule Darmstadt Message-ID: <5cl8o3$gt7@rs18.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> References: <E4opG1.12n@manki.toppoint.de> manroe@manki.toppoint.de (Manfred Roehr) wrote: >does anybody know, how a DOS formated MO-medium from the 3.5 >Fujitsu-drive could reformat into a NeXT-formated one? "Disk->Initialise" on all NEXTSTEP machines I've seen that use this Fujitsu drive (a very good choice IMHO). This includes various Intel based machines. If this doesn't work, maybe the drive is not set up properly. If you like, contact me via email if you have questions about DIP settings. All the best, Chris -- // Christian Neuss "static typing? how quaint.." // http://www.informatik.th-darmstadt.de/~neuss/ // fax: (+49) 6151 16 5472
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Organization: Antigone Press gateway, San Francisco Return-Path: <khe@jonathan.bta.net.cn> Message-ID: <9701281714.AA01715@jonathan.bta.net.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Karsten Heinze <khe@jonathan.bta.net.cn> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 01:14:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Installing NEXTSTEP on an NT machine Cc: comp-sys-next-misc@antigone.com Hi John, In article <mignault-ya023480002801971150220001@news.nytimes.com>, = you wrote: > My first impulse is to try to install onto the 450 IDE drive. NeXT recommended 400 MB for User and Developer. Possible you like also some other programs ... > Lacking that, > I could get another external SCSI drive and hook that up if I = could install > NEXTSTEP on there and boot it from that drive.=20 Do it. SCSI is better then IDE for NeXTSTEP. > Can the NeXT bootloader > coexist with NT's? No problem, you can boot NeXTSTEP from NT bootloader, or you can = start the NT bootloader from the NeXTSTEP bootloader. - Karsten --- Karsten.Heinze@Informatik.TU-Chemnitz.DE=20 Phone / Fax : +86-10-64 94 78 03 *** Powered_By_NeXTSTEP ***
From: breiter@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (Bernhard Reiter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Writing a disc driver Date: 29 Jan 1997 11:39:35 GMT Organization: Universitaet Osnabrueck Message-ID: <5cnctn$grs@deimos.rz.uni-osnabrueck.de> References: <854468821.12167@dejanews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: amas@lhr-sys.dhl.com [Posted and mailed] In article <854468821.12167@dejanews.com>, amas@lhr-sys.dhl.com writes: > I am interested in trying to write a disk driver to read some > disk formats from some of the older computers that made use > of 3.5" disk drives. Maybe the "mtools" package for unix, which is capable of reading varios Micro$oft diskformats is helpfull? Bernhard Reiter
From: hlm <hlm@aplcore.jhuapl.edu> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:02:24 -0500 Organization: VCP Distribution: inet Message-ID: <32EE6959.5F0E@aplcore.jhuapl.edu> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <32e24426.76640599@news.sover.net> <5c05bt$rn2@mailgate.lexis-nexis.com> <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL> <5clftv$q80@bamboo.verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Stevens wrote: > > Yah, but Intel released some versions of the '486 without FP capabilities. > > Best guess: during test the FP Coprocessors didn't work correctly, so > they disabled 'em, packaged 'em any way and sold 'em for low end (cheap) > systems. > Not exactly correct. The Intel 486SX-25 was a detuned, crippled 486DX-33. It was purely a marketing ploy on Intel's part, designed solely to kill off sales of the AMD 386DX-40. When Intel brought out the 486DX-33, they essentially abandoned the 386 market, leving a huge entry-level hole for AMD to exploit with the 386DX40. Recognizing this, Intel disabled the FPU on their 486 and sold it as a 25MHz chip instead of a 33MHz. I've heard speculation that Intel used chips which wouldn't pass tests for the DX-33, but never saw what I felt to be confirmation. Even though the cost to manufacture the 486SX-25 was presumably exactly the same, or slightly higher, than the 486DX-33, Intel sold them at a *HUGE* discount. I bought a motherboard with a surface mounted 486SX-25 back in '92 or early '93 for well under $200, when DX-33 motherboards were at least $400-500 as I recall. Intel also sold a "FPU upgrade" for the SX-25, which was reportedly another DX-33, but with an extra pin so that it wouldn't fit a DX-33 socket. Install the "FPU upgrade" and you disabled the SX-25 CPU and ran off the "upgrade" chip exclusively. Now instead of just having a disabled FPU on your SX-25 chip, taking up real estate and doing absolutely nothing, you had a totally disabled SX-25! It was an engineering embarrassment, but as I said, it was purely a marketing ploy intended to destroy AMD. Between that and the lawsuit (in which AMD eventually prevailed), Intel was successful for several years in almost totally suppressing competition. (NEC's V20 chip was a very effective competitor to the Intel 8086--I bought an "XT clone" with one of those in '86--but never had a successor.) Recently, with their reported problems with Klamath development and the alleged superiority of AMD's newest chip, perhaps that is to be remedied somewhat. Intel has played just about as dirty as Micro$oft, but without the publicity.
From: breiter@mathematik.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE (Bernhard Reiter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: reading disks in DOS Date: 29 Jan 1997 11:42:19 GMT Organization: Universitaet Osnabrueck Message-ID: <5cnd2r$grs@deimos.rz.uni-osnabrueck.de> References: <5cmmvd$u5f@ridge.spiritone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: flood@cris.com (rob thompson) [Posted and mailed] In article <5cmmvd$u5f@ridge.spiritone.com>, flood@cris.com (rob thompson) writes: > At our workplace we have hardware that runs using Nextstep. We copied > some data to floppy and were unable to read them. But you can use DOS Fat disk with NeXT and other formats. Try a disk formatted with your (DOS) computer, you want to read the data with. Bernhard Reiter
From: pageant@dircon.co.uk (Aled Davies) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OpenStep 4.X Query Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:06:01 GMT Organization: via Direct Connection News service Message-ID: <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm looking at putting NextStep/OpenStep on my Intel Workstation and I have a bit of a query. Is OpenStep for Mach (intel) binary compatable with older NextStep 3.3 applications, or do they need to be recomplied to be made to work. ??? Also bearing in mind that im not a student anymore and probably don't qualify for Next's academic pricing, if I'm not planning to do any development (at least for the foreseable future) is it really worth getting the development version ??. Presumably I can upgrade from User to developer at a later date if I need to ??? Replies via email if possible...Thanks Aled <pageant@dircon.co.uk> -------------------------------------------------------------- Aled Davies | "Paul Weller missed the sixties and now | we all have to suffer for it" | - Julian Cope --------------------------------------------------------------
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep 4.X Query Date: 29 Jan 1997 15:56:03 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Message-ID: <5cnruj$gqg@crcnis3.unl.edu> References: <5cltvg$4fm$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> In article <5cltvg$4fm$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) writes: > In <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk> Aled Davies wrote: > > Also bearing in mind that im not a student anymore and probably > > don't qualify for Next's academic pricing, if I'm not planning to > If you're not doing any GUI development, and thus don't need the GUI dev > tools, you could still grab the gcc compiler someone was maintaining for > nextstep, I think. This is misleading/untrue. One NEEDS the NEXTSTEP Devleoper to use ANY compiler. gcc does not include the standard C-libraries. You could compile o files with gcc, but you could link/create a binary. -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
From: shess@one.net (Scott Hess) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.programmer,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: Re: TCL for NeXT (HELP) Date: 29 Jan 97 09:53:04 Organization: Is a sign of weakness Message-ID: <SHESS.97Jan29095304@howard.one.net> References: <32EEA76D.41C67EA6@oar.net> In-reply-to: "Keith L. Swallow"'s message of Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:27:09 -0500 In article <32EEA76D.41C67EA6@oar.net>, "Keith L. Swallow" <swallow@oar.net> writes: I need to find a copy of tcl or instructions for installing tcl 7.6 on a next with nextmach 1.0 .. I know its old... But it is what I have to work with. SO any assistance would be gratfully appreciated. Please just reply to this by mailing me : swallow@oar.net I've posted a copy of tcl7.6 modified to compile under NeXTSTEP3.3 to my home page. Getting it to compile under NS1.0 will likely be a chore, since a lot has happened since then. If you told us what goes wrong when you try to ./configure and compile it, well, then we might be able to help more. Later, -- scott hess <shess@one.net> (606) 578-0412 http://w3.one.net/~shess/ <Favorite unused computer book title: The Zen of Dummies in a Nutshell>
From: frank@this.net (Frank M. Siegert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: NeXTSTEP/OpenStep IRC chat Date: 29 Jan 1997 17:19:44 GMT Organization: NO ORGANIZATION, INC. Message-ID: <5co0rg$get@bias.ipc.uni-tuebingen.de> Howdy! I'd like to ask people to join the IRC (Internet Relay Chat) channel #nextstep in Undernet. This channel is open only temporary, most likely in the time from 10:00 pm (22:00) to 2:00 am GMT+1. You may find me there (depending on my workload) under my nick name 'wogi'. Usually there are no defined topics, just come over and ask your questions or talk and have a good time. In case of a net spilt it is possible you won't see me as the European IRC network has disconnected . * Some Undernet IRC servers (see URL below for a more complete list): Chicago-1.IL.US.Undernet.org los-angeles.ca.us.undernet.org rfhs0005.fh-regensburg.de * Some URLs of interest: http://urth.acsu.buffalo.edu/irc/WWW/ircdocs.html http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/org/irc/ircprimer.html http://servers.undernet.org/ (German only) http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/org/irc/ * Software to get into IRC: ftp://peanuts.leo.org/next/Unix/network/conferences/ircII.2.9-NeXT.NIHS.b.tar.gz http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~premise/foundation/encircle/ -- * Frank M. Siegert [frank@this.net] - Home http://www.this.net * NeXTSTEP, Linux, BeOS & PostScript Guy
From: yblock@next.mc.maricopa.edu (York Block) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: IBM Ultrastar where can I get it??? Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:32:30 -0700 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <yblock-2801971732310001@79.phoenix-001.az.dial-access.att.net> Hi, I need some advise. I am trying to buy the IBM Ultrastar ES 2.1GB FSCSI2 (not the wide version) harddisk. I tried to get it from NECX but they don't have it rigth now. Does anyone know whereelse I can buy it?. Thank you York
From: gxa114@wilbur.cac.psu.edu (GEOF ABRUZZI) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: NeXT in the movie 'Flatliners' Date: 29 Jan 1997 19:40:23 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Message-ID: <5co937$133e@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <32eab496.0@192.33.12.30> <dtq-2601972351150001@shiva1-mclean-195.his.com> <32EE4E6B.62D4@friday.com> Bill Bumgarner (bbum@friday.com) wrote: : special with some of those stupid 3D email interfaces running [as an : overlay, obviously]. : On the east coast, there is a well known (though I forget which) yuppy : oriented furniture store that uses original black hardware as the : in-stroe 'mock' computer props (instead of those stupid cardboard boxes : you see everywhere else). I was ordering furniture for some of the computer labs here, and one of the furniture books used NeXT with the cantilevered monitor as demo computers. Again, I dont remember who. Geof -- ____________________________________________________________________________ Geof Abruzzi Language is a virus from outer space. gxa114@cac.psu.edu And hearing your name is better BeBox Developer #3089 than seeing your face. -Laurie Anderson ...
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep 4.X Query Date: 29 Jan 1997 20:48:52 GMT Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <5cod3k$287$2@majipoor.cygnus.com> References: <5cltvg$4fm$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> <5cnruj$gqg@crcnis3.unl.edu> Cc: rdieter@math.unl.edu In <5cnruj$gqg@crcnis3.unl.edu> Rex Dieter wrote: > In article <5cltvg$4fm$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) > writes: > > In <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk> Aled Davies wrote: > > > Also bearing in mind that im not a student anymore and probably > > > don't qualify for Next's academic pricing, if I'm not planning to > > If you're not doing any GUI development, and thus don't need the GUI dev > > tools, you could still grab the gcc compiler someone was maintaining for > > nextstep, I think. > > This is misleading/untrue. One NEEDS the NEXTSTEP Devleoper to use ANY > compiler. gcc does not include the standard C-libraries. You could compile > o files with gcc, but you could link/create a binary. > > To the best of my knowlege, the gcc distribution (for nextstep) in question comes with a libgcc. You can also obtain a libg++ that works with nextstep. However, since I have never used that distribution (I just gave it a cursory lookover), I don't know that for a fact. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. However, like I said, from things I"ve read and seen, it appears to come with the base C-libs you need to create a binary. -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com http://www.cygnus.com/~jrudd =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Smalltalk == Astronaut's tools. Awkward at first, but exceptional design C++ == A hammer. A SLEDGEHAMMER. Not cast metal, a big rock on a stick.
From: jrichmond@i-way.co.uk (Jeff Richmond) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Oracle and NeXTStep 3.3: do I need SQL*Net? Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 20:37:44 GMT Organization: UUNet PIPEX server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNet PIPEX) Message-ID: <5cocoq$ht7@join.news.pipex.net> Keyword: NeXStep, Oracle, SQL*Net I am assuming I need to purchase Oracle's SQL*Net to establish a database connection to an instance not on my local machine. Is this right? Or does NeXTStep ship with a version of SQL*Net? If it does, I can't find it. If it is not part of the distribution (Devl or User), does anyone have a copy I could buy? Cheers, Jeff Richmond
From: Stefano Pagiola <spagiola@worldbank.org> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: HELP: NLP Problems persist Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:29:32 -0500 Organization: World Bank Message-ID: <32EFC13C.6C20@worldbank.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope someone can help me. The problems I'm having with my NeXT Laser Printer persist. Basically, the page is printed stretched in the vertical dimension. If I draw a box that's one inch square and print it, the printout shows a box one inch wide but a little more than one inch tall. That's not too much of a problem when printing text, but it makes any kind of graphics very difficult. And plays havoc with mailing labels! This happens from all apps that print. I might add that occasionally, the first print job does come out right, but all subsequent ones do not. Anyone have any suggestions as to a cause/solution? Any help would be very much appreciated. -- Stefano Pagiola 850 N Randolph Str No.817, Arlington VA 22203, USA All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer
From: kpfleger@hpp.Stanford.EDU (Karl Pfleger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.sysadmin,su.computers.next Subject: can't find NS partition on 2nd SCSI hard disk Date: 29 Jan 1997 22:29:39 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University Distribution: world Message-ID: <5coj0j$j53@nntp.Stanford.EDU> I just installed a 2nd SCSI HD into my NS/Intel 3.2 system. I used fdisk to split it into 3 partitions (in order: DOS, NEXTSTEP, Linux). NEXTSTEP doesn't seem to recognize the NS partition of the 2nd disk. My 1st HD has 2 partitions (DOS, NEXTSTEP). NS can see both of these, and the new DOS partition on the new disk, but not the NEXTSTEP partition. NS can see the raw device (/dev/rsd1h), and in fact, I used NS's version of fdisk to do the partitioning. Before partitioning, NS could see the disk and I even formatted it and could read and write on it. But I couldn't leave things like this since I wanted to have it split so I could run Linux. Now, no directory comes up under '/' for the new NS partition, nor do I get a message when I log on saying "SCSI disk unreadable, would you like to format it", as I did before it was partitioned. The Console shows a message that complains that the device is busy and so it gave up trying to mount it. (Full Console output included below.) Can NS handle a 2nd SCSI disk that is partitioned? (Misc: There are no IDE HDs, only 2 SCSI ones. The SCSI IDs are: 1st HD = 0, 2nd HD = 1, CD-ROM = 2, Adaptec 1542cf SCSI controller = 7. The raw devices in NS for the HDs are: 1st = /dev/rsd0h, 2nd = /dev/rsd1h.) -Karl Console output: Software Version 3.2 (Thunder5S) probing for DOS Filesystem name: DOS Jan 29 14:18:33 Workspace: Mounted DOS disk at /dos-win95 probing for CDROM probing for DOS Jan 29 14:18:36 Workspace: Mounted scsi disk at /dos-win95-2 probing for DOS Filesystem name: DOS mount: /dev/rsd1h on /dos-win95-2_2: Device busy mount: giving up on: /dos-win95-2_2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karl Pfleger kpfleger@cs.stanford.edu http://www.stanford.edu/~kpfleger/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: tomi@shinto.nbg.sub.org (Thomas Engel) Subject: Re: Loginwindow Workspace hook Message-ID: <E4sEwJ.yu@shinto.nbg.sub.org> Sender: news@shinto.nbg.sub.org Organization: STEPeople's home (A NUGI member) References: 774e3de66d8a38ae1cc0063747b9f70a - <199701271555.KAA08101@nerc.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:43:30 GMT Timothy J Luoma <luomat@nerc.com> wrote: > > I am trying to start a different program than Workspace at login > > time. The manual page for 'loginwindow' states that > > > > dwrite loginwindow Workspace /Users/cb/bin/loginprogram > > > > should make loginwindow start /Users/cb/bin/loginprogram instead of > > Workspace.app at login time. > > if I do 'ps -auxwww|grep "Workspace.app/Workspace"' I see that > Workspace.app has the argument "-LoginProgram YES" > > Perhaps you could try turning that "off" by using > > dwrite Workspace LoginProgram NO > > I'll take credit only if it works ;-) I don't have the exact definiton of LoginProgram at hand right now, but I I remeber correctly the app which holds teh "LoginProgram" default turn to yes will log you out if you quit it. You could make any app the "LoginProgram" and leaving it (via quit) would log you out. As far as I remember the Dock has a default that tells it which app to lauch with the LoginProgram default. This won't affect the "login panel" or solve the orignal question. Aloha Tomi
From: Jan Skypala <skypalaj@alpha.inf.upol.cz> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: "Power" PC chips can beat shity Petium Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 21:03:07 +0100 Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Message-ID: <32EFACFB.59E2@alpha.inf.upol.cz> References: <5bluur$ump$3@doffen.uninett.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lasse Olsen wrote: > So, again, where can I buy it at 533Mhz? > Cheers... You've got to wait a minute or so, but while waiting check out: http://www.exp.com/products/x704/x704bull.html -- One ---------------------------------------------------------------------- __ __ / | One of Better Software Jan Skypala / / /_ | one@risc.upol.cz Zasovska 730 / / | | skypalaj@alpha.inf.upol.cz 757 01 Val. Mez. __ / / | | http://www.inf.upol.cz/~skypalaj Czech Republic \ \ / / |_| A1200/030+882@50/2+16RAM/850HD Tel: +42-651-22573 \_X_/ - Have a good die. Oh, sorry. Have a good day. -
From: David Grindrod <grindrod@mailhost.NMR.EMBL-Heidelberg.DE> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.sysadmin Subject: OPENSTEP 4.1 and Windows NT Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:21:03 +0100 Organization: EMBL Distribution: world Message-ID: <32F0922F.2781@mailhost.NMR.EMBL-Heidelberg.DE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just installed OPENSTEP 4.1 for windows NT and although all the developers stuff seems to work okay, there does not seem to be any applications. What I wondered was if there was any of the NeXT applications included, such as the mail program and the terminal etc. These were not on the distibution I have. Was the port limited just to the developers stuff? Has anyone any experience of porting generally available software to OPENSTEP/Windows NT and is there any archive off application for windows NT available. I could not see anything on the peanuts archive which is fairly extensive here in Germany. Email replies preferred if possible. Dave -- David grindrod, NMR System Manager, EMBL Heidelberg. Email: mailto:grindrod@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE HTML Home Page: http://www.NMR.EMBL-Heidelberg.DE/grindrod/
From: rdieter@math.unl.edu (Rex Dieter) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep 4.X Query Date: 30 Jan 1997 13:44:37 GMT Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln Message-ID: <5cq8k5$ink@crcnis3.unl.edu> References: <5cod3k$287$2@majipoor.cygnus.com> In article <5cod3k$287$2@majipoor.cygnus.com> jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) writes: > To the best of my knowlege, the gcc distribution (for nextstep) in > question comes with a libgcc. You can also obtain a libg++ that works > with nextstep. libgcc includes only gcc's internal function calls. It is not a full-featured C-library. libg++ IS a full featured c++ library. This question about needing gcc only has been posed many times in the past...and is not true on the NEXTSTEP platform. Now... if glibc were ported to NEXTSTEP, then it would be another story... -- Rex A. Dieter rdieter@math.unl.edu (NeXT/MIME OK) Computer System Manager http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ Mathematics and Statistics University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc From: "D. D. Brierton" <ddb@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <32F1203D.602D@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Sender: cnews@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (C News Software) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, University of Edinburgh References: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> <5cibuo$s76@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 22:27:09 GMT > > : On 01/21/97, Tim Holmes wrote: > > : > > > : >So a great deal has been said about what NeXT will do > > : >to or for Apple, but has anyone heard any details on > > : >what's in store for NeXT? There's something I'm curious about: if Rhapsody is going to be some implementation of OPENSTEP, does that mean that traditional Mac apps, once re-written for Rhapsody, are also likely to appear for NeXTSTEP (i.e. for OPENSTEP for Mach)? If that happened, I can imagine that a lot of people are going to find NeXTSTEP a more attractive prospect than Rhapsody. Any thoughts? Darren -- // ================================================================== // // D. D. Brierton // // Centre for Cognitive Science // // University of Edinburgh Email ddb@cogsci.ed.ac.uk // // // // "The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a // // suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for // // life. For this task, it has a rudimentary nervous system. When // // it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain any- // // more, so it eats it! (It's rather like getting tenure.)" // // ---Daniel C. Dennett, Consciousness Explained // // ================================================================== //
From: ag082@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Andrew Orr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need money for a Next Project? Date: 30 Jan 1997 15:00:16 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Message-ID: <5cqd20$t11@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> To Find out more about this sensational money making opportunity Email me at <andyorr@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> with "30 days" as your subject for all the FREE details. DO IT NOW and Make Money! Andrew A. Orr, <andyorr@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> -- Andrew A. Orr, U.E.L., Dipl. President of the Andrew Club http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ag082/Profile.html "Life is like a bowl of Cherries, fifty percent pits!" --- AAO
From: gbh@erols.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:02:19 -0500 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <32F0E22B.5403@erols.com> References: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> <5cibuo$s76@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <32F1203D.602D@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: ddb@cogsci.ed.ac.uk > There's something I'm curious about: if Rhapsody is going to be some > implementation of OPENSTEP, does that mean that traditional Mac apps, > once re-written for Rhapsody, are also likely to appear for NeXTSTEP > (i.e. for OPENSTEP for Mach)? > > If that happened, I can imagine that a lot of people are going to find > NeXTSTEP a more attractive prospect than Rhapsody. It would be attractive to only current NEXTSTEPers. Once Rhapsody is out, Apple will no longer ship NEXTSTEP (OPENSTEP/Mach) CDs or issue any more licenses. This will limit the number of people using the system. The number of Mac Users switching to Rhapsody will far outnumber the NEXTSTEP base. --gh
From: "dgrant" <darren@oxford.i-way.co.uk> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: PPP Server Date: 30 Jan 1997 17:41:40 GMT Organization: I-Way Limited, Reading Message-ID: <01bc0ed3$ef067f40$6fc081c2@Darren.i-way.co.uk> I have spent hours looking at FAQ's but don't seem to be able to find aything about using a NextStep/OpenStep on intel or Black hardware as a PPP server to allow dial in users. All the informaton seams to be for PPP Clients. Is anyone in here using a setup like this? Thanks in advance for your replies. PS Now that Apple and NeXT have announced the merge I would suggest there will be a number of Mac based ISP's who will now be looking at NeXT to solve the shortcommings of the Mac as a webserver. There may be a requirement for a mail list or webstite for this purpose. Anyone interested let's get together. Darren Grant
From: nurban@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Nathan M. Urban) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Date: 30 Jan 1997 14:11:48 -0500 Organization: Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Message-ID: <5cqrpk$jr9@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> References: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> <5cibuo$s76@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <32F1203D.602D@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> <32F0E22B.5403@erols.com> In article <32F0E22B.5403@erols.com>, gbh@erols.com wrote: > It would be attractive to only current NEXTSTEPers. > Once Rhapsody is out, Apple will no longer ship > NEXTSTEP (OPENSTEP/Mach) CDs or issue any more > licenses. Statements from NeXT have suggested otherwise. -- Nathan Urban | nurban@vt.edu | Undergrad {CS,Physics,Math} | Virginia Tech
From: margret@catshop.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Canon P133 Computer System at Closeout Price Date: 30 Jan 1997 21:43:17 GMT Organization: THE.COPY.CAT.SHOP Message-ID: <5cr4ll$5f@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> We have the following Pentium Computer for sale. Manufactuer: Canon Specification: Pentium 133 CPU 1.6 Gig Hard Drive 1.44 Floppy Drive 8X CD-Rom 28.8 Bps Modem 16MB of EDO Ram 72 Pin Mid Tower with open 3 open 5.25 bays and 1 3.5 open bay Case also has RF Connector Intel Chipset Motherboard 16 bit Sound Card 1 MB PCI VGA Exp. to 2 MB 256k Pipeline Cache PS/2 Keyboad and PS/2 Mouse Windows 95 All computers are brand new from Manufactuer. Price: $ 1,099 USD Optional: 2 X 4 CD Recorder (Internal) w/SCSI Card, EZ CD Pro Software Price: 399.95 USD Expand to 2MB of VGA Graphics Price: $ 49 USD Monitors Avilable Upon Request If you have any questions feel free to call, Please leave a message and your call will be returned promptly. The Copy Cat Shop 213-650-1680 213-650-9110 Fax
From: sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Date: 30 Jan 1997 21:28:35 GMT Organization: Digital Fix Development Message-ID: <5cr3q3$jff@news.digifix.com> References: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> <5cibuo$s76@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <32F1203D.602D@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> <32F0E22B.5403@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <32F0E22B.5403@erols.com> On 01/30/97, gbh@erols.com wrote: >> There's something I'm curious about: if Rhapsody is going to be some >> implementation of OPENSTEP, does that mean that traditional Mac apps, >> once re-written for Rhapsody, are also likely to appear for NeXTSTEP >> (i.e. for OPENSTEP for Mach)? >> >> If that happened, I can imagine that a lot of people are going to find >> NeXTSTEP a more attractive prospect than Rhapsody. > >It would be attractive to only current NEXTSTEPers. >Once Rhapsody is out, Apple will no longer ship >NEXTSTEP (OPENSTEP/Mach) CDs or issue any more >licenses. This will limit the number of people >using the system. The number of Mac Users switching >to Rhapsody will far outnumber the NEXTSTEP base. > This is total fiction. Apple's CEO has stated the exact opposite. -- Scott Anguish DBS Online - http://www.dbs-online.com/DBS sanguish@digifix.com Stepwise OpenStep WWW - http://www.stepwise.com
From: ians@cam-ani.co.uk (Ian Stephenson) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: PPP Server Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:58:58 GMT Organization: Cambridge Animation Systems Ltd Sender: news@cam-ani.co.uk Message-ID: <E4u7IB.D46@cam-ani.co.uk> References: <01bc0ed3$ef067f40$6fc081c2@Darren.i-way.co.uk> In article <01bc0ed3$ef067f40$6fc081c2@Darren.i-way.co.uk> "dgrant" <darren@oxford.i-way.co.uk> writes: > I have spent hours looking at FAQ's but don't seem to be able to find > aything about using a NextStep/OpenStep on intel or Black hardware as a PPP > server to allow dial in users. All the informaton seams to be for PPP > Clients. Is anyone in here using a setup like this? > > Thanks in advance for your replies. > yep - its dead easy. Follow the instructions for installing PPP, BPF etc as normal. When it gets to the bit about chat scripts, just quit. turn on logins on the tty (in etc/ttys), and get the user to log in as usual. They then run pppd (at the NeXT end)and it just works. You could set up pppd instead of login if necessary. I statically allocateed the IP address of the remove host, and added it to /etc/hosts. $an
From: jrudd@cygnus.com (John Rudd) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Apple's plans for NeXTStep? Date: 30 Jan 1997 20:11:24 GMT Organization: Cygnus Support Message-ID: <5cqv9c$4rf$1@majipoor.cygnus.com> References: <E4nBz8.HsM@gorilla.nbn.com> <5cibuo$s76@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <32F1203D.602D@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> Cc: ddb@cogsci.ed.ac.uk In <32F1203D.602D@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> "D. D. Brierton" wrote: > > > : On 01/21/97, Tim Holmes wrote: > > > : > > > > : >So a great deal has been said about what NeXT will do > > > : >to or for Apple, but has anyone heard any details on > > > : >what's in store for NeXT? > > There's something I'm curious about: if Rhapsody is going to be some > implementation of OPENSTEP, does that mean that traditional Mac apps, > once re-written for Rhapsody, are also likely to appear for NeXTSTEP > (i.e. for OPENSTEP for Mach)? > > If that happened, I can imagine that a lot of people are going to find > NeXTSTEP a more attractive prospect than Rhapsody. > > Any thoughts? That IS an interesting question. The question is still, though, what do the Mac developers get out of deploying apps on Nextstep/Openstep-for-Mach? Is there enough market for them to make a distribution channel for their products? I hope their is, and that they see it.. but they may not. Ofcourse, if they did, and Apple keeps the promise of continuing to support NS on Intel and Sparc, Apple may be sort of shooting their own foot a little. Why would I, as a Nextstep user, switch to Rhapsody if a) Nextstep continues to be supported, b) Rhapsody uses a Mac UI instead of a Nextstep UI, c) I can get all of the same apps for Nextstep? Admittedly Nextstep users aren't a big enough marketshare for Apple to really worry about not converting us to Rhapsody, other than we're a pre-canned bunch of experts on several aspects of Rhapsody (ie. those aspects they don't change from Nextstep) ready to be unleashed upon the world on the day Rhapsody ships. But then, if you've got a Sparc or a PC and you want to switch to running Mac apps, why buy a Rhapsody box instead of just picking up Nextstep? So again, it could be potential limitation if Apple's main goal is to get everyone using Rhapsody. The problem for Apple is there's only a couple ways to prevent this, and only one of them is "good". 1) Munge Openstep such that Rhapsody's Openstep isn't actually Openstep (or munge the non-Openstep API's in Rhapsody such that they're no longer the same as the non-Openstep API's in Nextstep... meaning, if the app isn't 100% Openstep compliant, you can still mostly just recompile between Nextstep hardwares.. but you wouldn't be able to do that between Nextstep and Rhapsody). Another place to do this is in the UI.. make Rhapsody NIBs incompatable with Nextstep NIBs or something, or make a combined DPS/GX screen model and have all Rhapsody systems require a call to the GX part even if that 1 benign call is all they do.. and don't port GX to the other Nextstep platforms, etc, etc, etc. 2) Give Incentives, Coerce, or otherwise influence Rhapsody developers to not deploy their apps on Nextstep even if the cross-comple/recompile effort required is trivial. 3) Make sure all Nextsteps are "Rhapsody compliant" (except maybe that Intel and Sparc don't have the blue box, and maybe make MAE available as a seperate product for Intel and Sparc), and emphasize all Rhapsody versions equally. I'd personally prefer #3 even if that means I lose the Next UI (though, I'd prefer to keep that option ;-). If I need Mac legacy apps, I'll either get Executor or hope Apple ports MAE to those versions of Rhapsody. Otherwise, Rhapsody is Rhapsody, and I can run it on whichever hardware I want (and may not have to buy new hardware to do that) (though, I've been hoping/wishing for a PPC port of Nextstep for years ;-) I think it's in Apple's best interests, in terms of spreading Rhapsody across the market, to go with #3 (whether they bundle a blue box, or sell a seperate MAE). It may mean that they have to give up the hardware side of their business, but I think that's the direction they've got to go anyway (on the otherhand, we may find that of the 3 (intel, sparc, and ppc) the best platform for running Rhapsody is PPC (without them hindering the speed on intel or sparc, I mean), and that could do their hardware side a LOT of good -- "Buy Rhapsody on Intel or Sparc for your legacy hardware, or buy it for a PowerMac and watch it SCREAM!") -- John "kzin" Rudd jrudd@cygnus.com http://www.cygnus.com/~jrudd =========Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible.============ Smalltalk == Astronaut's tools. Awkward at first, but exceptional design C++ == A hammer. A SLEDGEHAMMER. Not cast metal, a big rock on a stick.
From: sanjeev@ee.umr.edu (Sanjeev Agarwal) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help.. [CD ROM drive] .. Date: 31 Jan 1997 01:22:05 GMT Organization: UMR Missouri's Technological University Message-ID: <5crhft$a58$7@news.cc.umr.edu> I had installed a CD ROM driver (6x) on Pentium 133 running NS 3.3. Of late I cannot seem to access the CD ROM driver (for music CDs or otherwise). I was wondering what could have gone wrong. Could it have been some bug in CD Player that comes with the system. What do I need to do to correct this. Thank you .. Sanjeev
From: sanjeev@ee.umr.edu (Sanjeev Agarwal) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Help: [Network Printer?] ... Date: 31 Jan 1997 01:22:29 GMT Organization: UMR Missouri's Technological University Message-ID: <5crhgl$a58$8@news.cc.umr.edu> HI, We have a pentium 133 running NextStep 3.3. I was trying to connect a Network printer (postScript printer) to this machine. What do I need to do for this to work. Thank you very much .. Sanjeev
From: Andrew Orr <ag082@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5cqd20$t11@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> Control: cancel <5cqd20$t11@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> Date: 30 Jan 1997 18:10:14 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet Message-ID: <cancel.5cqd20$t11@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> ancelling MMF. Article cancelled from within tin [v1.3 unoff BETA release 970104] Path: hwfn!james!ag082 From: ag082@freenet.hamilton.on.ca (Andrew Orr) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Need money for a Next Project? Date: 30 Jan 1997 15:00:16 GMT Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <5cqd20$t11@main.freenet.hamilton.on.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN] To Find out more about this sensational money making opportunity Email me at <andyorr@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> with "30 days" as your subject for all the FREE details. DO IT NOW and Make Money! Andrew A. Orr, <andyorr@freenet.hamilton.on.ca> -- Andrew A. Orr, U.E.L., Dipl. President of the Andrew Club http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ag082/Profile.html "Life is like a bowl of Cherries, fifty percent pits!" --- AAO
From: Charles Bennett <chuck@benatong.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: Re: Logitec Mouse on a NeXT Keyboard Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:30:41 -0500 Organization: BenaTong Message-ID: <32F104F1.377C@benatong.com> References: <32E89346.2C4D@delphi.tn.tudelft.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found it.. (It's no wonder I need a 4 gig drive..I never throw anything away :-) ) The name of the file is LogitecTrackManTrackballReplacment.ps and the author is John Karabaic jk@exnext.com I have made it avaiable for anonymous ftp at ftp.benatong.com in the /pub/next area ftp://ftp.benatong.com/pub/next/LogitechTrackManTrackballReplacement.ps Hope this helps. Chuck BenaTong makers of PowerGuardian for NeXTSTEP -- "It's inexcusable for scientists to torture animals; let them make their experiments on journalists and politicians." Henrik Ibsen
From: kpompei@xmission.com (Kevin Pompei) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: OpenStep 4.X Query Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 16:27:45 -0700 Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900) Message-ID: <MPG.d5adc5ee3b382f7989681@news.xmission.com> References: <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk> In article <32ee673c.7007646@news.dircon.co.uk>, pageant@dircon.co.uk says... > > Hi, > > I'm looking at putting NextStep/OpenStep on my Intel Workstation > and I have a bit of a query. Is OpenStep for Mach (intel) binary > compatable with older NextStep 3.3 applications, or do they need > to be recomplied to be made to work. ??? OpenStep/Mach has built-in support for 3.3 Apps. > Also bearing in mind that im not a student anymore and probably > don't qualify for Next's academic pricing, if I'm not planning to > do any development (at least for the foreseable future) is it > really worth getting the development version ??. Presumably I can > upgrade from User to developer at a later date if I need to ??? > Yes, you can add the Developer package later. Good Luck, Kevin Pompei
From: margret@catshop.com Organization: THE.COPY.CAT.SHOP Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: cmsg cancel <5cr4ll$5f@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <cancel.5cr4ll$5f@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Control: cancel <5cr4ll$5f@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> References: <5cr4ll$5f@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:44:37 +1 EMP/ECP spam cancelled by hweede@berlin.snafu.de. This is an ongoing spam whose Breidbart index already is above 20. See my report "TheCopyCatShop" or "summary of auto-cancels" in news.admin.net-abuse.bulletins. Subject was: Canon P133 Computer System at Closeout Price.
From: gbh@erols.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.sys.next.misc Subject: OpenStep/Sparc Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 01:34:32 -0500 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Message-ID: <32F19278.453B@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What are the differences between Sun's OpenStep/Solaris and NeXT's OPENSTEP/Mach/Sparc? Please post your comments about your experiences with using them. --gh
From: "Eric A. Dubiel" <eadubie@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: What to name Rhapsody when it's out Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 03:01:58 -0600 Organization: Instructional Technology Services-Illinois State University Message-ID: <32F1B4FF.5359@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu> References: <32EB12FB.E68@mbox2.singnet.com.sg> <5cfrf7$p4h@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <32ec2b9f.0@192.33.12.30> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit jon klein wrote: > Star Trek: The Next Generation > System 8: APeX (I liked that one!) > Anything but NeXTstep 98 will do for me. What about Mac OPENSTEP, then you could still call it Mac OS (but OS would carry a new meaning) -- Eric A. Dubiel; http://www.ilstu.edu/~eadubie mailto:eadubie@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu ytalk eadubie@138.87.201.11 MIME, SUN, NeXT, PGP Mail ok R&D---Instructional Technology Services----Illinois State University "NEXTSTEP is probably the most respected software on the planet" - Byte Magazine ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED REPRESENT MYSELF ONLY even windows with softwindows), >Postscript,...., Perl (aehm :-) ))! Nextstep 5.0? Babylon? **====>> Babylon 5 :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Maarten M Hazewinkel | "Understanding is a three-edged sword." maarten@terkans.demon.nl | -- Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
From: jstevens@bamboo.verinet.com (John Stevens) Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.next.software,comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.soft-sys.nextstep Subject: Re: 68K deception? was Re: "Power" PC chips.. Date: 31 Jan 1997 10:57:33 -0700 Organization: Verinet Communications Distribution: inet Message-ID: <5ctbqd$faj@bamboo.verinet.com> References: <5afe12$see@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <E4EJz4.3qr@AWT.NL> <5clftv$q80@bamboo.verinet.com> <u02wwsxbea9.fsf@ml.com> In article <u02wwsxbea9.fsf@ml.com>, Brent B. Powers Swaps Programmer x2293 <powers@ml.com> wrote: >jstevens@bamboo.verinet.com (John Stevens) writes: > > > Yah, but Intel released some versions of the '486 without FP capabilities. > > > > Best guess: during test the FP Coprocessors didn't work correctly, so > > they disabled 'em, packaged 'em any way and sold 'em for low end (cheap) > > systems. > >Ummm, didn't the 486sx have a different pinout? That would argue >against this. Possibly not. Remember, the pinout is part of the packaging. You can, (and some companies do, to save money) test the silicon before packaging it. Of course, you gotta watch that heat dissapation. . . >The FP Coprocessor is a relatively expensive piece of >silicon, so they would have had reason to drop it for cost-savings. Yah. This is another scenario. As stated above, I was just guessing. But tell me, as an INTEL manager, if you could test the silicon before packaging it, and everything worked fine exept the FP, would you just throw away a very expensive piece of silicon, or would you think seriously about packaging it differently, and selling it as a different part (albeit with the FP completely disabled. . .)? I believe that for a while, due to the high cost of fab, that HP was actually *repairing* chips. This would argue that it is not only possible to depackage and repackage, but possible to do it in a commercially feasible way. . . John S.
From: Tom Hageman <tom@basil.icce.rug.nl> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Help with Slip/PPP on NS2.1 (Repost) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 00:08:06 +0100 Organization: Warty Wolfs Message-ID: <9701302308.AA14577@basil.icce.rug.nl> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.1mach v148) In article <5ciliv$p57@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>, ikouts@adonis.clnsnet.ariadne-t.gr (Ioannis Koutselas) wrote: > Some help please to someone who would like to have PPP > Slip off an old next running 2.1 NextStep. PLease tell > if such a connection is possible and if so with which > package. I *think* the old Transys DialupIP (SLIP only, not PPP) still works on NS2.x. (The newer Transys-PNI (SLIP) and the various PPP packages need NS3.2(3?) at least). It is probably still available at either ftp://ftp.leo.org/pub/comp/platforms/next/ or ftp:/ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/. > Thank you in advance. Previous postings had wrong mail > address which sould be ikouts@isosun.airadne-t.gr Still not good :-/ Please set your Reply-To: header. --- __/__/__/__/ Tom Hageman <tom@basil.icce.rug.nl> [NeXTmail/Mime OK] __/ __/_/ IC Group <tom@icgned.nl> (work) __/__/__/ "Any magic sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable __/ _/_/ from a perl script" -- Larry Wall, mangled
From: "Stephen J. Perkins" <perkins@ti.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc Subject: Re: Help with Slip/PPP on NS2.1 (Repost) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 16:29:41 -0600 Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. Message-ID: <32F27255.13AC@ti.com> References: <9701302308.AA14577@basil.icce.rug.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Hageman wrote: > > In article <5ciliv$p57@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr>, > ikouts@adonis.clnsnet.ariadne-t.gr (Ioannis Koutselas) wrote: > > Some help please to someone who would like to have PPP > > Slip off an old next running 2.1 NextStep. PLease tell > > if such a connection is possible and if so with which > > package. > > I *think* the old Transys DialupIP (SLIP only, not PPP) still works on > NS2.x. (The newer Transys-PNI (SLIP) and the various PPP packages need > NS3.2(3?) at least). It is probably still available at either > ftp://ftp.leo.org/pub/comp/platforms/next/ or > ftp:/ftp.next.peak.org/pub/next/. > > > Thank you in advance. Previous postings had wrong mail > > address which sould be ikouts@isosun.airadne-t.gr You may also check out: http://www.thoughtport.com:8080/PPP/PPP_for_early_OS.html - Steve -- Stephen J. Perkins Tel. +1(972)995-0029, Fax +1(972)995-6194, e-mail: perkins@ti.com Texas Instruments, P.O. Box 655474, MS 446, Dallas, TX 75265
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.