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Date: Sun 06-Nov-1991 03:30:22 From: smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) Subject: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS First of all, Lusty Wench (or whatever your name is) Cube LONG SOB STORY ABOUT HOW I GOT SCREWED BY CUBE ROUTE TODAY FOLLOWS... Hit 'n' now if you don't care! Now for the bad news. I just ordered a drive from Cube Route last week. I ordered a Wren VI (660 meg) and in my order I included not only my check for $1935 (a high price but I'll say why in a second) but a statement that, if the drive could not be shipped with 2.1 extended on it, I did not want it and would go elsewhere. I had talked to Cube Route on the phone and they had ABSOLUTELY ASSURED ME THAT THEY COULD SHIP THE DRIVE WITH THE SOFTWARE. I was surprised, since I had heard that was not kosher, but they said they had always done it and that was why I was willing to pay their somewhat inflated price (about $300 more than elsewhere). In my letter I clearly stated that they should not ship the drive without the software and that they should call me if there was a problem, but they did not do this. What they did was cash my check and ship me the drive, formatted (at 550 megs for some reason) but without any software, OS 2.1 extended or anything. The drive seems nice enough, but it is utterly useless to me. I called Cube Route and finally got in touch with a human (Ms. Brode) who blithely informed me that they had been told by NeXT that they could no longer provide drives with the OS installed to their customers and that she was sorry. I asked why she hadn't called to tell me when my letter specifically mentioned that, in this exact situation I would have appreciated a call. She tracked down my letter and confirmed that I had said that, but that she had misread my letter and figured I would take the drive anyway. Anyway Ms. Brode, for all her helpful attitude couldn't really tell me anything. She said she had to talk to "her boss" who I know reads this group. I LIKE the folks at Cube Route, but this has really pissed me off. If I get a call from the boss giving me a workable solution I'll be happy to post here saying how helful and stelar their service is but, for now I've been inconvenienced and I'm p*ssed. I suspect that they'll ask me to return the drive for a refund. They may even pay postage (though they probably won't pay the interest on my $2000 for the last three weeks that they've had it). That's not a solution. As it turns out I needed 2.1 extended as my station 105 has no compiler and every day that I don't have it is a major pain. This simply shouldn't have happened, and before others buy from Cube Route they should know that they may have this kind of trouble. I'll post the end of this sad tale soon, in the meantime I'll just sit here and grumble. Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening, Steve. [Glad for once that he's gonna be a lawyer soon.]
Date: Sun 06-Nov-1991 14:14:45 From: brian@beerwolf.umd.edu (Brian Cuthie) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS In article <1991Nov6.033022.25266@midway.uchicago.edu> smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) writes: > LONG SOB STORY ABOUT HOW I GOT SCREWED BY CUBE ROUTE TODAY > FOLLOWS... Hit 'n' now if you don't care! > Yes, Folks, He's not kidding. LONG sob story. Hit N now! > Anyway Ms. Brode, for all her helpful attitude > couldn't really tell me anything. She said she > had to talk to "her boss" who I know reads this > group. I LIKE the folks at Cube Route, but this > has really pissed me off. If I get a call from > the boss giving me a workable solution I'll be > happy to post here saying how helful and stelar If you had any sense whatsoever, you would have given Cube Route every last opportunity to resolve this *before* you blasted them on the net. At this point they have absolutely no reason to help you. In fact, if I were they, I wouldn't do anything now that you've defamed the company. > > Steve. [Glad for once that he's gonna be a > lawyer soon.] > Great. Just what the world needs, another hot headed, trigger happy, lawyer. Well, I must say, you've certainly picked the right profession. Have a nice day. -Brian
Date: Sun 06-Nov-1991 21:49:31 From: cnh5730@maraba.tamu.edu (Charles Herrick) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS In article <1991Nov6.033022.25266@midway.uchicago.edu> smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) writes: > LONG SOB STORY > if the > drive could not be shipped with 2.1 extended on it, I did > not want it and would go elsewhere. Wouldn't it be more productive to seek out someone in your area who could install the NeXTstep 2.1 operating system onto your drive for you? It takes about an hour. cnh
Date: Sun 06-Nov-1991 22:55:43 From: smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS I posted a long sob story about my troubles with Cube Route yesterday and said I would keep the world updated as only seems fair. Despite Brian Cuthie's opinion that I have no sense whatsoever I felt that it was best to let people know what was involved before they set out to buy. On a VERY POSITIVE NOTE, Cube Route in general and Ms. Borde in specific have been anxious to help despite what appears in fact to be pig-headedness on the part of NeXT. Mr Cuthie writes: > In fact, if I were they, I > wouldn't do anything now that you've defamed the company. This is an odd reaction, but I suppose if you feel that you, as consumer, have to bow and scrape to gain a company's favor, you might come up with this attitude. Fortunately, this is not the case. As consumer, I am a commodity and can easily go elswhere (and warn others to do the same.) The idea that one can "defame" a company by reporting the facts as they occured and suggesting that the company might have been more careful is beyond my comprehension. In any case, as I said, Cube Route is anxious to help and, though it still seems like it will be some time before I can get the OS release I need, it looks like I will get it eventually. I applaud CR for their efforts and I only meant that they could have been more careful in filling my order. If Mr. Cuthie wishes to flame my choice of profession I encourage him to do so in e-mail. If he wishes to flame lawyers in general (a common desire among those who have never needed one) I encourage him to do so in misc.legal.computing where it would be more widely received by those able to respond or alt.stupid where it really belongs. Otherwise save the bandwidth, it's hard enough to keep up with c.s.n.m as it is! Thank you all for your time, Steve Kramarsky
Date: Sun 07-Nov-1991 03:57:53 From: steved%bullwinkle.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Steve Dieringer) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS In article <1991Nov6.225543.17271@midway.uchicago.edu> smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) writes: > > NeXTers: > I posted a long sob story about my troubles with Cube > Route yesterday and said I would keep the world updated > as only seems fair. Despite Brian Cuthie's opinion that > I have no sense whatsoever I felt that it was best to let > people know what was involved before they set out to buy. > > On a VERY POSITIVE NOTE, Cube Route in general and Ms. > Borde in specific have been anxious to help despite what > appears in fact to be pig-headedness on the part of NeXT. [more self-righteous gorp deleted] Previously you flame Cube Route because they won't give you NeXT software (which you acknowledge to be dubious - "I was surprised, since I had heard that was not kosher"), now, mysteriously, it's all NeXT's fault? Give me a break! Your two postings appear pretty darn schizoid to me - weren't you posting here to try to gain some leverage with Cube Route? And now who are you trying to pressure, NeXT? Shell out the bucks and buy the OS!! Jeez, no wonder people take pot-shots at lawyers.... Steve
Date: Sun 07-Nov-1991 19:24:22 From: salim@tigger.Colorado.EDU (Salim Alam) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS Steven Mortimer Kramarsky says: > >NeXTers: > I posted a long sob story about my troubles with Cube >Route yesterday and said I would keep the world updated >as only seems fair. Despite Brian Cuthie's opinion that >I have no sense whatsoever I felt that it was best to let >people know what was involved before they set out to buy. > > On a VERY POSITIVE NOTE, Cube Route in general and Ms. >Borde in specific have been anxious to help despite what >appears in fact to be pig-headedness on the part of NeXT. In my opinion, you are being too kind to Cube Route. If this had happened to me, I would be madder than hell. This is defininitely not what I might term a "misunderstanding" rather, I would put it under the category of "outright lying" and "bait-and-switch". Why blame this on NeXT? NeXT's policy on this is not new news. Unfortunately, you paid by check. Credit card companies are very useful in dealing with this kind of situation, and are probably the only threat strong enough to make aberrant mail order companies behave. [.. he replies to Mr. Cuthie, then: ] > > In any case, as I said, Cube Route is anxious to help >and, though it still seems like it will be some time >before I can get the OS release I need, it looks like >I will get it eventually. I applaud CR for their >efforts and I only meant that they could have been >more careful in filling my order. What does THAT mean? Are they going to send you another drive? Will they loan you an OD so you can copy the OS? Are they going to return your money? I'm interested in knowing what they can do to remedy this situation. Knowing mail order companies as I do, I am extremely skeptical about how much effort they will make to help you considering that you don't pose an immediate threat to them. -Salim Supporters of malicious behaviour by mail order companies, send your puny flames to /dev/bullshit.
Date: Sun 07-Nov-1991 23:42:49 From: smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS Dear NeXters: I just got off the phone with Charles Perkins, the president of CUBE ROUTE and we worked through my gripes about the OS. Mr. Perkins informs me that NeXT has suddenly begun a crackdown on vendors who provide the OS on drives (this is accurate, I was informed by Tecor that they were having the same problem) and that he is sorry for the confusion. He offered me several alternatives for taking care of my problem. The fact is that I am wary of mail-order, as Mr. Alam mentioned, especially when the mail-order place can't take credit cards. But upon much consultation, I'm convinced that Cube Route is a legitimate business trying to provide a service and being sidelined by NeXT's lack of a coherent licensing policy for their OS. Mr. Perkins tells me that Cube Route is trying to work out an arrangement with NeXT, but I don't know what will eventually happen. As for Mr Dieringer's opinion that I should "shell out the bucks" and buy the OS, I wonder if he would send me a check for $300 so that I can do that. That is the current cost of upgrading from 2.0 non-extended to 2.1 extended. In any case, I would appreciate it if we could end this thread. I'm happy with the help I've gotten from Cube Route and I'll be happy to reply to anyone who wants to send me e-mail, but for now I think we can spare the net any further ramblings, yes? Thank you for your time, Steve Kramarsky.
Date: Sun 08-Nov-1991 16:45:15 From: nathan@jacobi.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) Subject: Re: CUBE ROUTE PROBLEMS (really OS2.1 cost) In article <1991Nov7.234249.21199@midway.uchicago.edu> smk5@quads.uchicago.edu (stephen mortimer kramarsky) writes: > > As for Mr Dieringer's opinion that I should "shell > out the bucks" and buy the OS, I wonder if he would > send me a check for $300 so that I can do that. That > is the current cost of upgrading from 2.0 non-extended > to 2.1 extended. > Why would it cost you anything? You've already purchased the 2.n version of the OS with your machine/upgrade - you don't have to pay anything more for the license to use 2.1 basic/extended. The only additional cost would be the media cost if you actually wanted the release on floppy disks.
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.