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Date: Sun 05-Feb-1991 20:38:55 From: ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? <1991Feb3.141109.26388@wam.umd.edu> On 03-Feb-91 in Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? user Alan J. Schunemann@wam.u writes: >>Interestingly enough, the same brochure states that the SCSI-2 connector has >>a transfer rate of 4.8MB/sec (burst rate), but does not specify a sustained >>rate, nor a rate for the internal port. >> >>last question: Is synchronous communication uniqe to SCSI-2 drives? >> Thanks alot, Peter Marinac, 39clocks@violet.berkeley.edu > >I don't believe synchronous communication is "unique" to SCSI-2 drives. The >Quantum 105 LPS internal drive runs synchronous. (that's what LPS stands for). >Most of the "big" workstation manufacturers package synchronous HDs with thier >systems because they're faster. I've been trying to figure this whole HD mess >out for a while and the above comments are just my current understanding not >the gospel. If anyone knows the real spiel please correct me! Not that it really matters, since the SCSI port in the NeXTstation is SCSI-1. Only the cable is SCSI-2
Date: Sun 03-Feb-1991 02:54:12 From: 39clocks@violet.berkeley.edu (Peter Marinac) Subject: NeXT HDs, who makes them? Looking at a NeXT product brochure I noticed that the "Mass Storage Options" for the cube are not described in a consistent manner. I know that the 660Mb and late 330Mb drives are made by MAXTOR, and ads for the NeXTStation reveal that the 105 is a low profile Quantum, but what about the others? And what's the difference between: raw burst transfer rate, maximum transfer rate (syncronous), and sustained transfer rate. I mean I can guess what they terms mean, but how do they effect "real world" operations? Here is how NeXT describes the hard disk it sells for the cube: 105 MB Hard Disk Drive 3.5", 3rd-height, 105MB formatted capacity, 17ms avg seek, 4.0MB/sec max transfer rate. (Made by: Quantum?) 200 MB Hard Disk Drive (optional) 3.5", 1/2-height, 200MB formatted capacity, 15msec avg seek, 4 MBytes/sec transfer rate(syncronous). (Made by:?) 400 MB Hard Disk Drive (optional) 3.5", 1/2-height, 406MB formatted capacity, 13msec avg seek, 4 Mbytes/sec transfer rate(synchronous). (Made by:?) 660 MB Hard Disk Drive 5.25" full height, 660MB formatted capacity, 16.5 ms avg seek, 2.5MB/sec raw burst transfer rate, 1.6MB/sec sustained transfer rate. (Made by: MAXTOR) 1.4 GB Hard Disk Drive 5.25" full height, 1.4 GB formatted capacity, 13ms avg seek, 4 Mbytes/sec maximum transfer rate. (Made by: ?) Interestingly enough, the same brochure states that the SCSI-2 connector has a transfer rate of 4.8MB/sec (burst rate), but does not specify a sustained rate, nor a rate for the internal port. last question: Is synchronous communication uniqe to SCSI-2 drives? Thanks alot, Peter Marinac, 39clocks@violet.berkeley.edu
Date: Sun 03-Feb-1991 14:11:09 From: alan@wam.umd.edu (Alan Joseph Schunemann) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? In article <1991Feb3.025412.9529@agate.berkeley.edu> 39clocks@violet.berkeley.edu (Peter Marinac) writes: > >Looking at a NeXT product brochure I noticed that the "Mass Storage Options" >for the cube are not described in a consistent manner. I know that the 660Mb >and late 330Mb drives are made by MAXTOR, and ads for the NeXTStation reveal >that the 105 is a low profile Quantum, but what about the others? And what's >the difference between: raw burst transfer rate, maximum transfer rate >(syncronous), and sustained transfer rate. I mean I can guess what they terms >mean, but how do they effect "real world" operations? > >Here is how NeXT describes the hard disk it sells for the cube: > >200 MB Hard Disk Drive (optional) > 3.5", 1/2-height, 200MB formatted capacity, 15msec avg seek, 4 MBytes/sec > transfer rate(syncronous). (Made by:?) I believe it's made by Conner. >400 MB Hard Disk Drive (optional) > 3.5", 1/2-height, 406MB formatted capacity, 13msec avg seek, 4 Mbytes/sec > transfer rate(synchronous). (Made by:?) Hewlett Packard. >1.4 GB Hard Disk Drive > 5.25" full height, 1.4 GB formatted capacity, 13ms avg seek, 4 Mbytes/sec > maximum transfer rate. (Made by: ?) This one is in the disktab. It's a Maxtor (2.0) >Interestingly enough, the same brochure states that the SCSI-2 connector has >a transfer rate of 4.8MB/sec (burst rate), but does not specify a sustained >rate, nor a rate for the internal port. > >last question: Is synchronous communication uniqe to SCSI-2 drives? > Thanks alot, Peter Marinac, 39clocks@violet.berkeley.edu I don't believe synchronous communication is "unique" to SCSI-2 drives. The Quantum 105 LPS internal drive runs synchronous. (that's what LPS stands for). Most of the "big" workstation manufacturers package synchronous HDs with thier systems because they're faster. I've been trying to figure this whole HD mess out for a while and the above comments are just my current understanding not the gospel. If anyone knows the real spiel please correct me! Thanks, Alan
Date: Sun 04-Feb-1991 23:25:51 From: tvz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Timothy Van Zandt) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? Here is one more question to add to the list about hard drives. Why did NeXT choose to use an SCSI port for the internal drives, rather than an SCSI-2? I was surprised to read that in the User's Reference when I got my slab.
Date: Sun 06-Feb-1991 23:56:16 From: cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? <1991Feb3.141109.26388@wam.umd.edu> <obflTTK00Uh7E30wgn@andrew.cmu.edu> In article <obflTTK00Uh7E30wgn@andrew.cmu.edu> ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) writes: Not that it really matters, since the SCSI port in the NeXTstation is SCSI-1. Only the cable is SCSI-2 Not that it matters, but just the opposite is true.
Date: Sun 07-Feb-1991 15:55:46 From: tvz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Timothy Van Zandt) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? In article <CNH5730.91Feb6175616@calvin.tamu.edu> cnh5730@calvin.tamu.edu (Chuck Herrick) writes: >In article <obflTTK00Uh7E30wgn@andrew.cmu.edu> ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) writes: > >> Not that it really matters, since the SCSI port in the NeXTstation is >> SCSI-1. Only the cable is SCSI-2 > >Not that it matters, but just the opposite is true. > So what is the story? The User's Reference says: "The hard disk drive connector is an industry-standard SCSI port and its layout is provided below, under 'Internal SCSI port'" (p. 282) Is it really only the cable that is SCSI-1? Can an internal SCSI-2 drive be installed (if or when there is such a thing)? How are we supposed to interpret the rating of the 105MB internal drive at 4.0MB/sec transfer rate, when the SCSI port only has a ~1.2MB/sec transfer rate? In any case, why didn't NeXT go with SCSI-2 internally?
Date: Sun 08-Feb-1991 03:53:12 From: scheng@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Boles) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? Hello! I am strongly inclined to buy a NeXTstation for use at home. Could someone tell me how much free space I would have on the HD given the following software (assuming a 200MB drive): 1. OS version 2.0 2. Workspace Manager 3. Edit 4. Mathematica 5. Installer (don't know what this is) 6. Preferences (ditto) 7. VT100 Terminal Emulator 8. BuildDisk, InstallTablet, UserManager 9. Interface Builder (maybe ...) 10. C compiler 11. C++ compiler 12. Malloc Debugger 13. GNU Emacs and GNU debugger 14. On-line technical documentation As you see, I am basically interested in doing a bit of programming on a UNIX box at home. Any other comments other than the info requested above is most welcome. PLEASE respond to my email: apas611@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu or aviator@csdfx8a.arlut.utexas.edu Thanks! --db David Boles
Date: Sun 08-Feb-1991 14:08:00 From: lacsap@plethora.media.mit.edu (Pascal Chesnais) Subject: Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? In article Re: NeXT HDs, who makes them? scheng@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Boles) of : The University of Texas at Austin writes: Hello! I am strongly inclined to buy a NeXTstation for use at home. Could someone tell me how much free space I would have on the HD given the following software (assuming a 200MB drive): David Boles --- How about putting the question differently: A full 2.0 distribution is about 190 Mbytes with swap disk, so you would have about 10 Mbytes free if you loaded everything. You can from that point delete what you believe to be fluff. pasc
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