This is NeXTstep-and-X11? in view mode; [Up]
Date: Sun 09-Oct-1990 17:47:24 From: jff@groucho (Jim Frenzel) Subject: NeXTstep and X11? We have a network of H/P machines running HP-UX and X11, which I will want to access if I buy a NeXT. Consequently, I have a few questions regarding NeXTstep and X11. XNeXT) is available, which allows you to run X-based applications. 1) Does this run under NeXTstep or does it replace NeXTstep? As I understand it, NeXT does not officially support XNeXT. 2) Is there a tool that allows you to open an X11-compatible window on a remote machine running X11, if you are running NeXTstep? Similarly, is there a tool that allows you to run X11 applications under NeXTstep? 3) How difficult is it to port X11 applications to NeXTstep? 4) Is there a public domain drawing program available, similar to fig under X11, that generates postscript output? 5) Is there a DOS emulator program available (preferably pd)? Thanks!
Date: Sun 10-Oct-1990 16:37:44 From: peterd@opus.cs.mcgill.ca (Peter Deutsch) Subject: Re: NeXTstep and X11? > From news@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca Wed Oct 10 03:59:36 1990 > > > We have a network of H/P machines running HP-UX and X11, which > I will want to access if I buy a NeXT. Consequently, I have > a few questions regarding NeXTstep and X11. > > >From the fall catalog I gather that a beta version of X (formerly > XNeXT) is available, which allows you to run X-based applications. > > 1) Does this run under NeXTstep or does it replace NeXTstep? As > I understand it, NeXT does not officially support XNeXT. XNext is a port of X11R3 done by a student at MIT. I don't know if it will run under Release 2.0, but assume it will. It runs concurrently with NeXTStep and the root window can be run at any size up to the whole screen. XNext is a single bit per pixel server. It is reasonably fast, but I believe it makes use of a proprietary library to do the single bit to double bit per pixel translation, so sources are not available. XNext has some bugs, but works as a "proof of concept". Perhaps of more interest to you, a programmer here at McGill has done a port of a X11R4 server, which we call MouseX (for reasons which will become clear soon, or will be clear to some of you now). It uses two bits per pixel (and in fact is a reqrite of the 8 bit server). It uses no proprietary libraries and will be available as a set of diffs to the standard MIT release, so you can do with it as you will. Currently, this server needs NeXTStep to feed it mouse and keyboard events, otherwise it is independent of NeXTStep. Once NeXT tells us how to get these directly from the kernel, we should be able to do a stand-alone version (are you listening, Chris?). Also, it was decided to have X as a separate environment, thus the server takes over the whole screen and currently can't be resized. There was some talk that a new feature of X11R4 allows resizing a root window, so maybe we'd allow this, but this idea is on the back burner for now. You can hot-key out of X back into NeXTStep at any time. double-clicking on the App icon takes you back to X. We have a bare-bones user App to launch X. X takes over the screen, and the two coexist quite nicely. We hope to add the ability to cut and paste between the two, but haven't done it yet. It is running (I have it on my machine as we speak, with twm, xphoon, two copies of xeyes and an xterm) but it's only been done for a few days and we're currently shaking a few bugs out. It is supposed to go out to a half dozen beta sites for a couple of weeks of testing (sorry, guys - any minute now!!) but we here at SOCS found a couple of bugs so everyone decided to hold it for a couple of days to see if anything else turns up. There was nothing major, but for example if I suspend X, then log out, the launching App dies, but not the X server. The next time you launch X, a new server is launched, but other machines can't reach you. Fix is trivial, and is probably done by now. We also wanted to test it with Release 2.0, and were promised a copy by NeXT which hasn't arrived yet (are you there, Judy?). Once we've done that, it can go to the world. One interesting thing is the amount of X software which turns out to be broken and in which the brokenness has been found when we compiled and ran our new server. Examples, there is a strange bug in "twm", which turns a move into a move-constrained after the first few. It doesn't make it unusable, but we haven't observed this on other machines. We also have a lot of things which have a hard-wired assumption that every machine will have three mouse buttons, Sigh. I voted to have a special hot-key to simulate the missing button, but the implementor has a philisophical objection to hiding broken code with this hack, so I'll have to find the time one day to do it myself (me, I'm a pragmatist, but with no time to program right now. It could be a while, unless someone else does it first.) > 2) Is there a tool that allows you to open an X11-compatible window > on a remote machine running X11, if you are running NeXTstep? Not that I know of, but our port will allow X and NeXTStep to cooexist, so you can run X programs on your NeXT and set the display to the other machine. Sorry to keep tantalizing the net with promises of X, but it really will be out soon. I keep replying to the X questions to keep everybody informed of progress. If you have any ideas, suggestions, etc either email them or post them. I pass them on to the guy doing the port. - peterd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ " Although botanically speaking a fruit, in 1893 the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that tomatoes are a vegetable (and thus taxable under the Tariff Act of 1883) because of the way they are usually served. " ref: Smithsonian, August, 1990. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun 16-Oct-1990 15:05:54 From: rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) Subject: Re: NeXTstep and X11? |> 1) Does this run under NeXTstep or does it replace NeXTstep? XNeXT runs in a window under NextStep. It is X11R3 and runs quite well if you have enough RAM. |> 2) Is there a tool that allows you to open an X11-compatible window |> on a remote machine running X11, if you are running NeXTstep? |> Similarly, is there a tool that allows you to run X11 applications |> under NeXTstep? Both is only possible for X-applications on a Xserver or for NextStep applications on a NextStep platform e.g. IBM RS/6000 and NeXT's You can have an Xclient running on the NeXT and see it on another machines X server, and if you have vice versa. You can't however take a standard NeXT application and display it on a Xserver nor can you take an Xapplcation and display it on a NeXT without running XNeXT. |> 3) How difficult is it to port X11 applications to NeXTstep? This is mainly a question on how dependent the main part of the program is on the interface part. The closer they are intermixed, the worse it is. If you have however a couple of routines that specify certain interface elements, then it sould not be too difficult. In general it is very easy and fast a process to create a userinterface on the NeXT (in contrary to X ...) |> 4) Is there a public domain drawing program available, similar to |> fig under X11, that generates postscript output? There is a demo program by NeXT that ships with each machine, called Draw. It is not as sophisticated as fig though. Besides that, every thing you see on the screen or on a printer on a NeXT is postscript as NeXT uses DisplayPostScript as a screen and printer imaging model. |> 5) Is there a DOS emulator program available (preferably pd)? There is a MS-DOS emulator announced and should ship in January or February. It will be AT compatible (EGA card, EMS, 80287) and is a complete software emulation of a MS-DOS machine. It is however not PD. Actually, is there any PD MS-DOS emulator out there for any machine? Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." Bernhard Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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