This is A-small-gripe in view mode; [Up]
Date: Sun 12-Nov-1990 15:01:51 From: dcarpent@sjuphil.uucp (D. Carpenter) Subject: Re: A small gripe In article <5673@lanl.gov> jad@lanl.gov (John De Vries) writes: > >I just got back from the NeXT Registered Developer's Camp (which, once >again I'll say was worth the money). I did see something there that >rather disturbed me, and that was a videotape of Steve Job's >performance at Davies (sp?) Hall in San Francisco. > >Specifically, Steve was playing around with Interface Builder and >showed how typically easy it was to hack out a useful interface in >very little time. > >However, he was using a particular bunch of objects -- namely the >database object -- to show things off. We've got a fanatic around >here that has been going around saying "hay, just wait -- they've got >this database object that'll make things really neat." > >Well, I asked a number of folx at camp (they gave the students >wonderful access to the worker-bees) about these objects. Like, I >want them NOW (as did a largish banking/investment firm), and seeing >Jobs performance, one might think he wasn't touting vaporware. > >Well, he was, unfortunately. They are indeed working on these >objects, but they are not coming out in 2.0 (which is not released as >of this writing -- they are using release Fuschia, level T in-house). >Supposedly they will be a part of version 3.0, but I got the >impression NOT to expect that Real Soon Now (more like a year from >now). These words were from "Dr. Mach" and Kate Smith... NeXT was showing these database objects at Educom in October. If memory serves me correctly, the person who was demonstrating them was the person who WROTE them, and he told me that NeXT would be making them available soon, perhaps after the first of the year, at a very reasonable price. He said nothing about version 3.0. So perhaps we can expect them sooner than the next OS release. As I said in an earlier post on Educom, I received the impression, from talking to people from NeXT at Educom, that NeXT has big plans for 3.0. I'm sure it will be worth the wait, but with a little luck we won't have to wait that long for the database objects you saw.
Date: Sun 12-Nov-1990 23:17:05 From: dml@esl.com (Denis Lynch) Subject: Re: A small gripe In article <5673@lanl.gov> jad@lanl.gov (John De Vries) writes: ..... Specifically, Steve was playing around with Interface Builder and showed how typically easy it was to hack out a useful interface in very little time. However, he was using a particular bunch of objects -- namely the database object -- to show things off.... Like, I want them NOW (as did a largish banking/investment firm), and seeing Jobs performance, one might think he wasn't touting vaporware. Well, he was, unfortunately. They are indeed working on these objects, but they are not coming out in 2.0.... Supposedly they will be a part of version 3.0, but I got the impression NOT to expect that Real Soon Now (more like a year from now)..... Not to add more hyperbole to any already flame-ridden net, but facts are better than speculation: No, the DBKit will not be part of 2.0. No, the DBKit will not be part of 3.0. Instead, the DBKit will be part of a separate database developers kit, to be made available at nominal cost sometime between 2.0 and 3.0. The DBKit is a substantial and well-thought-out piece of work, and will be able to connect to the Sybase server we've grown to know and love, as well as other SQL servers. Stay tuned for anouncements fairly soon. Denis Lynch, ESL Inc. dml@esl.com
Date: Sun 12-Nov-1990 07:37:02 From: declan@ratt.rutgers.edu (Declan McCullagh/LZ) Subject: Re: A small gripe In article <5673@lanl.gov>, jad@lanl.gov (John De Vries) writes: > > However, he [Steve] was using a particular bunch of objects -- namely the > database object -- to show things off. We've got a fanatic around > here that has been going around saying "hay, just wait -- they've got > this database object that'll make things really neat." > > Well, I asked a number of folx at camp (they gave the students > wonderful access to the worker-bees) about these objects. Like, I > want them NOW (as did a largish banking/investment firm), and seeing > Jobs performance, one might think he wasn't touting vaporware. > > Well, he was, unfortunately. They are indeed working on these > objects, but they are not coming out in 2.0 (which is not released as > of this writing -- they are using release Fuschia, level T > in-house). Actually, that's a fairly old version of 2.0... In any case, you're referring to the DBKit, which will be another NeXT *Kit and will provide a consistent front-end to any database you can by for a NeXT. The last I've heard is that the DBKit will be available in a few months - but not as late as NeXTstep 3.0. You are quite correct; companies want the DBKit and aren't willing to wait a year for it. As for vaporware, it depends on your definition. Steve didn't promise that it would be in NeXTstep 2.0 or even talk about ship dates, so it's not vaporware in the original sense of the word... Many third-party apps which are still not shipping were demonstrated on Sep 18th - the DBKit probably falls into that "not shipping yet - maybe 1Q 1991" category. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Declan McCullagh / NeXT Campus Consultant \ declan@remus.rutgers.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun 12-Nov-1990 05:54:38 From: jad@lanl.gov (John De Vries) Subject: A small gripe I just got back from the NeXT Registered Developer's Camp (which, once again I'll say was worth the money). I did see something there that rather disturbed me, and that was a videotape of Steve Job's performance at Davies (sp?) Hall in San Francisco. Specifically, Steve was playing around with Interface Builder and showed how typically easy it was to hack out a useful interface in very little time. However, he was using a particular bunch of objects -- namely the database object -- to show things off. We've got a fanatic around here that has been going around saying "hay, just wait -- they've got this database object that'll make things really neat." Well, I asked a number of folx at camp (they gave the students wonderful access to the worker-bees) about these objects. Like, I want them NOW (as did a largish banking/investment firm), and seeing Jobs performance, one might think he wasn't touting vaporware. Well, he was, unfortunately. They are indeed working on these objects, but they are not coming out in 2.0 (which is not released as of this writing -- they are using release Fuschia, level T in-house). Supposedly they will be a part of version 3.0, but I got the impression NOT to expect that Real Soon Now (more like a year from now). These words were from "Dr. Mach" and Kate Smith... Anyhow, this is only a small gripe. Jobs was selling big with something he could not at that time deliver. Just the same, the concept is valid and will be no doubt incredibly useful when it gets to The Rest Of Us. On the other hand -- if you've got some ideas about this field, this would be the time to hit NeXT up with ideas. Oh yeah -- it was interesting to hear the NeXT training folx calling 1.0 the "version without features". I've got to admit that 2.0 is a lot more fun to work with. Also, we had a '040 running the fileserver, so although they aren't shipping until the date you've no doubt already read about in this group, they are coming along. "Sneaking" on to the '040 to do my compiles and loads <grin> sort of made things a little bit faster for me... John deVries jad@lanl.gov
Date: Sun 13-Nov-1990 21:20:45 From: isaacso@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric J. Isaacson) Subject: Re: A small gripe dcarpent@sjuphil.uucp (D. Carpenter) writes: >NeXT was showing these database objects at Educom in October. If >memory serves me correctly, the person who was demonstrating them >was the person who WROTE them, and he told me that NeXT would be >making them available soon, perhaps after the first of the year, >at a very reasonable price. He said nothing about version 3.0. >So perhaps we can expect them sooner than the next OS release. The DBKit will be available shortly after 2.0 comes out. (Here I go again without specific details.) It's a separately available package. I believe I heard from our NeXT rep today that the price will be ca. $119 (I don't recall if that was higher ed. or list). Eric J. Isaacson (the other) Internet: isaacso@ucs.indiana.edu School of Music--Indiana Univ. NeXT Mail: isaacso@bartok.music.indiana.edu Bloomington, IN 47405 -- I am NOT the author of A86 and other -- (812) 855-7832(o)/333-1827(h) -- outstanding software...I wish I were... --
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