This is NeXT-floppy-disks in view mode; [Up]
Date: Sun 15-Dec-1990 05:34:23 From: ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) Subject: NeXT floppy disks Does anyone know where I can get the ED floppy disks nesessary to format to 2.88 Megs on the NeXT? How about the price of the floppies, especially bulk rate. Len Schultz
Date: Sun 16-Dec-1990 07:25:44 From: jsd@arcadien.rice.edu (Shawn Joel Dube) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <EbOPLTa00Uh784Okl=@andrew.cmu.edu>, ls1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Leonard John Schultz) writes: |> Does anyone know where I can get the ED floppy disks nesessary to format |> to 2.88 Megs on the NeXT? How about the price of the floppies, |> especially bulk rate. |> I've seen a NeXT price sheet saying 5 for $99. I would guess that you could use 720k and HD (1.44m) disk if make a proper change on the disk. What I mean is that with a low-density 720k disk, drilling a hole in a corner will make the disk an HD one (or at least that's what the drive thinks it is).
Date: Sun 16-Dec-1990 09:31:07 From: tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <1990Dec16.072544.233@rice.edu> jsd@arcadien.rice.edu (Shawn Joel Dube) writes: >proper change on the disk. What I mean is that with a low-density >720k disk, drilling a hole in a corner will make the disk an HD one >(or at least that's what the drive thinks it is). If you think you can get away with drilling a hole on a DSDD floppy hoping it will work with the same reliability as a DSHD disk, you are terribly mistaken. The converted disk will work initially, but the chances of data staying on the disk reliably is unknown because of the different magnetic formulation used on HD disks. This difference in materials is even more dramatic between HD and ED diskettes. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
Date: Sun 16-Dec-1990 14:56:24 From: matthews@lewhoosh.umd.edu (Mike Matthews) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <1990Dec16.072544.233@rice.edu> jsd@arcadien.rice.edu (Shawn Joel Dube) writes: >I've seen a NeXT price sheet saying 5 for $99. Hmm, I've seen 'em for 5 for $30. Can't verify that, though. >I would guess that you could use 720k and HD (1.44m) disk if make a >proper change on the disk. What I mean is that with a low-density >720k disk, drilling a hole in a corner will make the disk an HD one >(or at least that's what the drive thinks it is). Nope. The media is totally different, from what I hear. That's just ASKING for trouble anyway. Use the disk the way it's rated for, save yourself and anybody else who depends on that data some grief. >r jsd@owlnet.rice.edu course, were better off dead." r ------ Mike Matthews, matthews@lewhoosh.umd.edu/matthews@umdd (bitnet). ------ .sig under construction, replies may have NeXT attachments
Date: Sun 16-Dec-1990 22:46:16 From: philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <7724@umd5.umd.edu>, matthews@lewhoosh.umd.edu (Mike Matthews) writes: > In article <1990Dec16.072544.233@rice.edu> jsd@arcadien.rice.edu (Shawn Joel Dube) writes: > > >I've seen a NeXT price sheet saying 5 for $99. > > Hmm, I've seen 'em for 5 for $30. Can't verify that, though. Stanford price 5 for $27.
Date: Sun 17-Dec-1990 09:33:57 From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <1990Dec17.065959.19798@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> ta-aca@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew C. Athan) writes: >This is just EXACTLY what the disk manufacturers want you to believe. *Bzzt* Wrong answer, but thanks for playing anyway. >As far >as *I* know (and this has been confirmed to me over and over by people who'se >knowledge on the subject I trust...) the ONLY difference between HD and 720k >disks is the CERTIFICATION: i.e., the disk manufacturer wrote to the disk a >few times and verified that "yes indeedy this thing retains data." That is true, as far as it goes. But you forgot a step: they throw out any ones which don't pass teh certfication. And, yep, a few don't (how much depends on the manufacturer). If the manufacturing process is sufficiently high-yield, there is a much better chance that your 720k floppy will work in a HD drive. If, however, it isn't (say they use an older, less reliable plant for the 720k floppies), then you stand a much better chance of getting a bum floppy. Knowing all that, you takes your chances. I rarely use floppies, but I have run into ones that would not format at high density; these were returned to the manufacturer (since we bought them as high density). I should ammend
Date: Sun 17-Dec-1990 14:54:44 From: tgingric@magnus.ircc.ohio-state.edu (Tyler S Gingrich) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <1990Dec16.224616.23852@Neon.Stanford.EDU> philip@pescadero.stanford.edu writes: >Stanford price 5 for $27. >-- Hmm. Just like the old days when you could get a box of 10 - 143K SS SD floppies for the _unbelievably low_ price of $36!!!!! The more things change........ Tyler
Date: Sun 17-Dec-1990 06:59:59 From: ta-aca@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew C. Athan) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks Ken writes: >If you think you can get away with drilling a hole on a DSDD >floppy hoping it will work with the same reliability as a DSHD >disk, you are terribly mistaken. The converted disk will work >initially, but the chances of data staying on the disk reliably >is unknown because of the different magnetic formulation used on >HD disks. This difference in materials is even more dramatic >between HD and ED diskettes. >Ken This is just EXACTLY what the disk manufacturers want you to believe. As far as *I* know (and this has been confirmed to me over and over by people who'se knowledge on the subject I trust...) the ONLY difference between HD and 720k disks is the CERTIFICATION: i.e., the disk manufacturer wrote to the disk a few times and verified that "yes indeedy this thing retains data." And believe me ... they DON'T check data retention for long periods of time. THIS IS ALL MOOT ANYWAY: Your mileage MAY vary but I (and **many** **many** people I know) have used drilled 720k's for HD storage almost since the stuff came out. I have had a total of 2 (THAT'S RIGHT 2) go bad (that's from a sample of over 300). OF COURSE, more than that simply refused to format or had bad sectors when they formatted ... but if it works the first time, its likely to retain data for a LONG LONG time. If it works in practice --- it works period. magnetic particles vertically (no? -- correct me if I am wrong) in order to acheive much higher densities. I have yet to try formatting a 720 for ED usage, but I would suspect the real-world failure rate to be very high. aca (squish)
Date: Sun 17-Dec-1990 09:18:01 From: tempest@walleye.uucp (Kenneth K.F. Lui) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks In article <1990Dec17.065959.19798@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> ta-aca@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew C. Athan) writes: >formatted ... but if it works the first time, its likely to retain data for a >LONG LONG time. If it works in practice --- it works period. > If it works for you, that's great; however, I wouldn't do it myself and wouldn't recommend it to anyone else. What are the prices for HD disks these days anyway? Aren't they inexpensive enough to not bother with drilling holes? >acheive much higher densities. I have yet to try formatting a 720 for ED >usage, but I would suspect the real-world failure rate to be very high. > Instead of using magnetic particles that's pin-like (for conven- tional longitudinal recording) ED diskettes use particles that are hexagonal in shape (for perpendicular recording). I read an article in Scientific American several years ago about this and I'm fairly sure that the NeXT floppy disk subsystem works in a similar fashion. Ken ______________________________________________________________________________ tempest@ecst.csuchico.edu, tempest@walleye.ecst.csuchico.edu,|Kenneth K.F. Lui| tempest@sutro.sfsu.edu, tempest@wet.UUCP |________________|
Date: Sun 18-Dec-1990 14:02:44 From: ta-aca@cunixd.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew C. Athan) Subject: Re: NeXT floppy disks >>This is just EXACTLY what the disk manufacturers want you to believe. >*Bzzt* Wrong answer, but thanks for playing anyway. What's that supposed to mean?! Lighten up. >>As far as *I* know (and this has been confirmed to me over and over by >>people who'se knowledge on the subject I trust...) the ONLY difference >>between HD and 720k disks is the CERTIFICATION: i.e., the disk manufacturer >>wrote to the disk a few times and verified that "yes indeedy this thing >>retains data." > >That is true, as far as it goes. But you forgot a step: they throw out any >ones which don't pass teh certfication. And, yep, a few don't (how much >depends on the manufacturer). If the manufacturing process is sufficiently No kidding. This is implied by the word CERTIFICATION. If they can't write to it, of course they throw it out (or sell it to you as a 720k disk)... >high-yield, there is a much better chance that your 720k floppy will work in >a HD drive. If, however, it isn't (say they use an older, less reliable >plant for the 720k floppies), then you stand a much better chance of getting >a bum floppy. > >Knowing all that, you takes your chances. I rarely use floppies, but I have >run into ones that would not format at high density; these were returned to >the manufacturer (since we bought them as high density). I should ammend >that: they would format, but the verification would fail. So ... drill a hole ... format your disk ... verify it ... and use it. I have no qualms after using 300 similarly "certified" 720k-drilled disks of which exactly 2 have failed. AND THESE WERE CHEEPIES (bulk, shrink wrapped, no names). More than 2 (more like 20-40) didn't even verify/format, but you'ld have to be braindead to use them as HD's after this happens!! Ok. No flame war. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. But I must add one caveat: --don't believe the hype-- If your data is *critical* or if you must be absolutely 99% (there's never a 100% guarantee from ANYONE) sure that the disk is capable of storing HD data, and you must answer to some higher authority (your concience, your boss, etc.) you may want to go ahead and buy HD certified disks ... otherwise, save yourself some dough ... [[PS: This argument sounds a lot like all the I was hearing a few years ago as to why I should buy an *IBM* instead of a "clone" (including Compaq...)]] aca aca (squish)
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.