This is Keyboards,-Frame,-CL-wrt-2.0 in view mode; [Up]
Date: Sun 15-Dec-1990 20:06:41 From: lacsap@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Pascal Chesnais) Subject: Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 I have received answers from different places about my comments: Keyboard - NeXT changed the keyboard to conform to "international" standards and to allow local customization (read they only want hardware configuration for the keyboard). I still want the option to purchase the old style keyboard when ordering my NeXTstation. There was no warning that the keyboard would change. I sense a new third party market here! Frame - The upgrade package in 2.0 only upgrades you to Frame 2.0c *only if* you have 2.0b installed. Even so 2.0c will NOT allow you to use the math/equation stuff... Also 2.0c seems to have the symbol font completely screwed up, so if you look at the paragraph markings you get different symbols. Frame is working on a fix for this, hopefully they will have a 2.0d which will fix the most of the problems soon. I must state that both NeXT and Frame have been extremely helpful in trying to get up and running with this problem. CL - NeXT is "frantically" working on this, the best time frame for a fix is January/February release. No word as to how this will be released. Franz is not keen on helping people who do not have software support license. So this is all in NeXT's court right now. pasc
Date: Sun 15-Dec-1990 21:06:37 From: agm@cs.brown.edu (Axel Merk) Subject: Re: Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 In article <4512@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> lacsap@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Pascal Chesnais) writes: > [..] > I still want the option to > purchase the old style keyboard when ordering my NeXTstation. I support that idea. I type at over 70 words per minute and don't want to go on a trip in order to reach a pipe key. Someone who has problems reaching the small return key has trouble pressing any key precisely. Please give the user the option to decide whether he or she wants to work on the standard or (formerly?) progressive keyboard. Axel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Axel Merk "One needs a certain amount of blindness -- -- agm@cs.brown.edu to see perfection" - Christopher Nuzum -- -- phone/fax (401)272 2262 Brown University Box 53 Providence RI 02912 -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun 16-Dec-1990 21:54:53 From: jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) Subject: Re: Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next: 15-Dec-90 Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 Pascal Chesnais@media-la (1427) > Keyboard - NeXT changed the keyboard to conform to "international" > standards and to allow local customization (read they only want > hardware configuration for the keyboard). I still want the option to > purchase the old style keyboard when ordering my NeXTstation. There > was no warning that the keyboard would change. I sense a new third > party market here! I would like to see alternative options to the NeXT keyboard, possibly from third parties. The NeXT keyboard is attractive in its matching obsidian black, but for Unix/C people, it is pretty hellish. Even the non-extended Apple keyboard manages to get all the keys in there without resorting to the keypad or a set of keys above the numbers-row (they put the tilde, pipe, etc on either side of the space-bar). All in all, I like that configuration best, although the feel is less than ideal. My point is that the keyboard is the only sacrifice I see with the NeXT. And I don't believe there are enough keys on the keyboard to allow reconfiguration to be a solution. Without more keys, VT-series terminal emulation is impossible without having to switch the keypad mode all the time. I am hoping to buy a NeXT in the 2nd or 3rd quarter of 1991, but am anticipating a bad time getting used to so many important keys being out of the way. I hope NeXT or some third party (probably expensive :-( ) manufactures a solution to this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U.| | Ya Gotta Love It. | -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun 17-Dec-1990 16:13:19 From: isbell@ucscf.UCSC.EDU (Art Isbell) Subject: Re: Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 In article <gbOyoh_00Ud5I3aFF=@andrew.cmu.edu> jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: >I would like to see alternative options to the NeXT keyboard, possibly >from third parties. The NeXT keyboard is attractive in its matching >obsidian black, but for Unix/C people, it is pretty hellish. Even the >non-extended Apple keyboard manages to get all the keys in there without >resorting to the keypad or a set of keys above the numbers-row (they put >the tilde, pipe, etc on either side of the space-bar). All in all, I >like that configuration best, although the feel is less than ideal. > I find the original keyboard design to be almost ideal. Although it is not marked, <Shift><Esc> gets a tilde, but the backquote is inconvenient for those of us who still use vi and do some shell programming. Having a compact keyboard is nice, but I think the space bar is way overdone. I imagine most people use only the center third of the space bar. I would like to see a keyboard with a left and right Control key in the row of Alternate and Command keys with a shortened space bar. Then the Esc key could be moved to the former Control position and the tilde-backquote could be moved to the former Esc position. I'm sure someone can come up with something clever for the former tilde-backquote key on the keypad :-) I am certainly not a great typist, but even I don't find the Return key to be too small, so I really don't understand the need for an L-shaped return key.
Date: Sun 18-Dec-1990 02:34:02 From: rca@cs.brown.edu (Ronald C.F. Antony) Subject: Re: Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 Why can't NeXT just design an L-shaped return key that can be replaced for the two keys that are there on the old/ideal keyboard at the users discretion if he/she/it really feel that they need to be politically correct and conform to the "international" standards? This way at least the rest of the people that rather type than read standard specifications can do their work. Now that we already get tilt feet (that I don't need) we could as well get an L-shaped return key as a goodie that is useless... Anyway, how do they now make the distinction between the RETURN and ENTER keys given that there are only symbols on the new keyboard? Ronald ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." G.B. Shaw | rca@cs.brown.edu or antony@browncog.bitnet
Date: Sun 23-Dec-1990 17:02:25 From: jacob@gore.com (Jacob Gore) Subject: Re: Keyboards, Frame, CL wrt 2.0 / comp.sys.next / tilley@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Richard Tilley) / Dec 19, 1990 / > I really want all the keyboards I use to be the same. > It just won't do, to have the same key sequence produce > an uppercase H ON ONE KEYBOARD, AND A BACKSPACE ON ANOTHER. > If all keyboards had the control key beside the A, that > would be fine too. But they don't. And they won't :-( The Control key is exactly where it's supposed to be. In this case, it's the Apple and IBM keyboards that are to blame for incompatibility. Jacob
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.