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Date: Sun 07-Oct-1989 03:30:11 From: Unknown Subject: Usenet software I have recently had the pleasure of getting rn, cshar, patch and gnus to run on our cubes. It wasn't straightforward, but it seems to be working! My question is: has anybody else done this, and in particular any other generally-available Unix software? Is anybody working on a Next front end for emacs? Or just a Next-based news reader? If the answers seem to be "no" to the above, would anyone care to have the modified sources we're using? Thanks! Denis >From: jacob@gore.com (Jacob Gore)
Date: Sun 09-Oct-1989 02:28:56 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Usenet software In article <DML.89Oct6203011@mozart.esl.com> dml@esl.com (Denis Lynch) writes: >I have recently had the pleasure of getting rn, cshar, patch and gnus to run >on our cubes. It wasn't straightforward, but it seems to be working! > >My question is: has anybody else done this, and in particular any other >generally-available Unix software? Yes, under 0.9. (In our last episode, I was wondering where our 1.0 upgrades were. NeXT FedExed them immediately. Now I'm waiting for our "Tech Support" people to "get around to" installing the 1.0 ROMs. Y'see, we're not supposed to do any hardware work on machines they support. The last time I needed a screw for a PC it took three weeks. ROM upgrades are supposed to take 30 minutes, so I'm sure we've been put on December's calendar, sigh.) Anyway, I have B News 2.11.17 (with fixes), nntp 1.5.6, rn 40, rrn seemingly running. (Patch too.) Larry Wall's Configure has some problems. It doesn't like the GNU cpp, so it had to be faked out somewhat. It also guessed wrong on VFORK and GETPWENT. I added window size support to rn, fixed Pnews to use recording and understand how our NeXT clusters handle mail. NNTP needed work too; it assumed that if you define MACH (which you should) that you're 4.2-derived and not 4.3-derived. I had to replace about 4 of NeXT's .h files so they'd work with gcc -bsd. I rewrote uname for the client library to identify as the cluster's server when run from an equivalent diskless client. It's going to undergo a bit more testing before I consider it ready for release, but the problems I've encountered seem not to be NeXT-dependent. Oh yeah, I had to increase the maximum .newsrc lines limit and hash table size--1000 wasn't enough! A few more things too, that I don't remember at the moment. netnews has its own partition on the server NeXT's second 660MB drive, tuned appropriately and fat with inodes. When we have 1.0 running I'll find out whether the SCSI tape support works. Backing up to floptical is no fun, and getting less so as our current 1.3GB fills... Time to order another 660... Thanks to AMBAR for help with nntp--the documentation leaves a lot to be desired. -=EPS=- >From: steve@cpdaux.UUCP (Steve Lemke)
Date: Sun 10-Oct-1989 11:54:56 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Usenet software In article <651@wet.UUCP> epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott) writes: } }Yes, under 0.9... } }Anyway, I have B News 2.11.17 (with fixes), nntp 1.5.6, rn 40, }rrn seemingly running. (Patch too.) How's the performance on unpacking and expiring news with B News? I've heard that cnews is much, much faster, but I had some difficulty in trying to get it going. My other problem is that the modem isn't here yet, so I'm not getting any news batches so as to test what I've compiled. }Larry Wall's Configure has some problems. }It doesn't like the GNU cpp, so it had to be faked out somewhat. I'm assuming you meant where it checks "abc=xyz" and you have to insert a space before the '=' in order to get it pass the test? }It also guessed wrong on VFORK and GETPWENT. I ran into several problems with the configure scripts also - I wonder if the Configure script will be changed to be more NeXT-friendly. }I added window size support to rn, fixed Pnews to use recording }and understand how our NeXT clusters handle mail. NNTP needed }work too;... } }It's going to undergo a bit more testing before I consider it }ready for release, but the problems I've encountered seem not to }be NeXT-dependent. Any chance when you're finished of sending the problems back to the appropriate people so future relases might (gasp) be able to be compiled with no problems by neophytes like myself instead of having to hack through all this stuff? }Oh yeah, I had to increase the maximum }.newsrc lines limit and hash table size--1000 wasn't enough! What did you do about Pnews not being able to create a .newsrc? From what I've seen, I don't think it's a NeXT-specific problem - something about sed not being able to handle more than 10 something-or-others at a time. Is there a known fix to this? }A few more things too, that I don't remember at the moment. }netnews has its own partition on the server NeXT's second 660MB }drive, tuned appropriately and fat with inodes. We only have a single 660 mb drive, but it's only got about 260mb on it right now. Any parameter changes we should make when we get a full news feed going on it? (The machine has 8mb of RAM though we'll probably try to bump that up to 16mb if it will help). }Backing up to floptical is no fun, and getting less so as our }current 1.3GB fills... Time to order another 660... Yes, I know - 95ms is SO slow, but then again, it sure beats 40mb tape cartridges or (ugg) floppies!! It DOES hold quite a bit more on one physical unit, and is mountable. Incidentally, is there an easy way to back up the whole drive to two disks? I decided since we're over 250mb to just back up /usr/local (since we just installed 1.0 and could re-do it if necessary, and all additional changes have been in /usr/local.) }Thanks to AMBAR for help with nntp--the documentation leaves a }lot to be desired. I may want to try to get this running, too, as we have other machines on the ether that may want to be able to read news - not to mention there are some programs appearing (like Hypercard stacks, etc.) that can read news through nntp.
Date: Sun 10-Oct-1989 17:21:30 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Usenet software In article <651@wet.UUCP> epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott) writes: >Larry Wall's Configure has some problems. It doesn't like the GNU >cpp, so it had to be faked out somewhat. It also guessed wrong on >VFORK and GETPWENT. The problem is that rn predates ANSI C, and no official patches have come out for some time. Last I heard, a complete rewrite was in the works, possibly in Perl. The Configure scripts have changed a lot since rn came out, and the one supplied with Perl 3.0g works almost perfectly on a NeXT (and where it doesn't, it's not Larry's fault). The reason it goofed on vfork is that it uses a sed script to grok the output of nm, and it fails to strip multiple underscores. I don't know about getpwent; I'd have to see what it does. -=- J Greely (jgreely@cis.ohio-state.edu; osu-cis!jgreely) >From: epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott)
Date: Sun 11-Oct-1989 10:18:42 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Usenet software In article <539@cpdaux.UUCP> cpdaux!steve@apple.com (Steve Lemke) writes: >How's the performance on unpacking and expiring news with B News? I've >heard that cnews is much, much faster, but I had some difficulty in >trying to get it going. My other problem is that the modem isn't here >yet, so I'm not getting any news batches so as to test what I've compiled. My experience with B News is limited to this machine (wet) under SysV/386 and the NeXT. On the 386, the limiting factor on unpacking news is the speed of compress. B expire runs just fine with about 110MB in the news spool. (note that I'm using dbz on the Sys V machine). On the NeXT I'm NNTP-only, so I don't have to deal with compression. C expire may be a win, I don't know yet. >}Larry Wall's Configure has some problems. >}It doesn't like the GNU cpp, so it had to be faked out somewhat. > >I'm assuming you meant where it checks "abc=xyz" and you have to insert a >space before the '=' in order to get it pass the test? Yes. >I ran into several problems with the configure scripts also - I wonder >if the Configure script will be changed to be more NeXT-friendly. Well... I just brought up rrn under SunOs and it didn't do too much better. SunOS looks like both USG and BSD, and Configure happily brought in both ioctl and termio. And got other things wrong too. >}I added window size support to rn, It turns out that this is also in one of the rrn patches, and I ended up with doubled code (heh heh). >}It's going to undergo a bit more testing before I consider it >}ready for release, but the problems I've encountered seem not to >}be NeXT-dependent. > >Any chance when you're finished of sending the problems back to the >appropriate people so future relases might (gasp) be able to be >compiled with no problems by neophytes like myself instead of having >to hack through all this stuff? Who are the "appropriate people"? I've never been able to get a non-automated answer from Larry Wall. The supposed "rn 41" I got turned out to be identical to patchlevel 40, and the latest I could find at JPL was patchlevel 39. The best I can do is put together a patch archive and post it to news.software.b asking for merges. >What did you do about Pnews not being able to create a .newsrc? From >what I've seen, I don't think it's a NeXT-specific problem - something >about sed not being able to handle more than 10 something-or-others at >a time. Is there a known fix to this? Pnews doesn't create .newsrc; newsetup does, and that's invoked by rn. newsetup claims a limit of 10 w's per sed, but it's really 9. Basically you nuke all the "net" "mod" "fa" stuff that's no longer used and things are ok. This too is fixed in the rrn patches, although I think that misses putting "to" groups in .newsrc. >}A few more things too, that I don't remember at the moment. Like linking with the shareable library! Big win, especially on 8MB cubes. >We only have a single 660 mb drive, but it's only got about 260mb on it >right now. Any parameter changes we should make when we get a full news >feed going on it? (The machine has 8mb of RAM though we'll probably try >to bump that up to 16mb if it will help). Do you have a single partition or two? (If you're a netboot server the second partition is spoken for). Inodes are good. usenet likes many, many small files. stan@cs.sfsu.edu built the partition; I don't have the numbers handy. -=EPS=- >From: joe@mathcs.emory.edu (Joe Christy)
Date: Sun 12-Oct-1989 13:52:09 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Usenet software In article <658@wet.UUCP> epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott) writes: }In article <539@cpdaux.UUCP> cpdaux!steve@apple.com (Steve Lemke) writes: }My experience with B News is limited to this machine (wet) under }SysV/386 and the NeXT. On the 386, the limiting factor on }unpacking news is the speed of compress. B expire runs just fine }with about 110MB in the news spool. (note that I'm using dbz on }the Sys V machine). On the NeXT I'm NNTP-only, so I don't have }to deal with compression. C expire may be a win, I don't know }yet. What's dbz, and how hard is it to get bnews to use it? I seem to remember something about using database functions, but I can't remember what program that was in, since over a three-day span I tried to compile elm, bnews, rn, cnews, and nn. }>I ran into several problems with the configure scripts also - I wonder }>if the Configure script will be changed to be more NeXT-friendly. } }Well... I just brought up rrn under SunOs and it didn't do too }much better. SunOS looks like both USG and BSD, and Configure }happily brought in both ioctl and termio. And got other things }wrong too. That's strange - I was (at one point) thinking of giving this up to do it all on one of the Suns - a friend said that just about everything would work on them without a problem. It would actually be nice to get rrn working on them (eventually) with nntp running on the NeXT so people can use the Suns too in addition to the NeXT machine for reading news/mail. }>Any chance when you're finished of sending the problems back to the }>appropriate people... } }Who are the "appropriate people"? I've never been able to get a }non-automated answer from Larry Wall. I have no idea - it just sounded like a good idea at the time! }>What did you do about Pnews not being able to create a .newsrc? } }Pnews doesn't create .newsrc; newsetup does, and that's invoked }by rn. newsetup claims a limit of 10 w's per sed, but it's }really 9. Basically you nuke all the "net" "mod" "fa" stuff }that's no longer used and things are ok. This too is fixed in }the rrn patches, although I think that misses putting "to" groups }in .newsrc. Oops, my mistake - but you figured out what I meant. Thanks - I'll take a look at that later this morning. }>}A few more things too, that I don't remember at the moment. } }Like linking with the shareable library! Big win, especially on }8MB cubes. OK, how does one do this? I remember seeing something in one of the NeXT manuals about a parm that can be added to the link command to use shared libraries - is that what you're referring to? }>We only have a single 660 mb drive, but it's only got about 260mb on it }>right now. Any parameter changes we should make when we get a full news }>feed going on it? (The machine has 8mb of RAM though we'll probably try }>to bump that up to 16mb if it will help). } }Do you have a single partition or two? (If you're a netboot }server the second partition is spoken for). Inodes are good. }usenet likes many, many small files. stan@cs.sfsu.edu built the }partition; I don't have the numbers handy. We have two partitions - I assume they're in the "standard" config, where as you said, the second would be used if it was a netboot server, which it is not. Should I tweak parms for the second partition (how?) and use it for /usr/spool? How much of a difference will more memory make? Someone did something time-consuming through TelNet the other day, and the person sitting at the console playing billiards had a fit when the machine slowed to a crawl... Thanks for all the help - I'm posting this rather than mailing it since I'm assuming that somewhere else out there someone else may benefit from this, or others may have answers to some of the questions. After all, that's why I started reading this group - to get everything going on the NeXT machine!
Date: Sun 21-Oct-1989 18:51:13 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Usenet software Sorry for the long summary. It's not even loading from the disk- it starts loading from the disk and then the disk stops rotating suddenly. COMMAND-COMMAND-TILDE did'nt work, ie it's not even loading up the OS. Does anybody have any suggestions? ----------------------- Murlidar Ramakrishnan mramakri@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu >From: jacob@gore.com (Jacob Gore)
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