This is Getting-machines-to-students in view mode; [Up]
Date: Sun 25-Oct-1989 04:21:30 From: Unknown Subject: Getting machines to students I think NeXT is the best-run computer manufacturer in the U.S., but the method of getting machines to students appears slow and chaotic. Over a year past the introduction of a machine targeted at academia, I can't buy one at one of the largest academic institutions in the world. However, I am allowed to drive to UC Davis, where delivery supposedly takes 30 days and there is, I believe, a 15% fee, which exceeds the price of a Mac Plus at our local academic outlet. With tax, this brings the price of the entry-level machine to over eight thousand dollars. Reportedly UC Davis has sold but ten machines over the past year. With those terms, I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, with these exclusive distribution agreements we don't have the advantages of competition. It is a struggle for most students to come up with $6500, so a 15% fee cuts into sales and yet generates no extra revenue for NeXT. And thirty days is a long time. If I were running sales, I wouldn't be pleased with anything but immediate pickup in the usual case, and a week in the extreme. If the normal distribution channels can't live up to that standard, they need to be replaced or supplemented with direct sales. machine, how long does it take before I have it on my desk? I'll bet it's less than thirty days. And what do they pay for it themselves? Maybe an agreement could be reached with Businessland whereby students offer proof of school registration and Businessland gets a $3500 or so rebate. Maybe Businessland needs to charge a $500 fee for support, but at least students will know what to expect and we won't have these large price discrepancies between schools. If a school is capable of offering the machine at a reduced fee or more quickly or with better support, so be it, but the student - especially those at smaller schools - should have the option of going to a retail outlet. This means that Businessland might have a bunch of poorly-dressed knapsack-bearing long-haired students coming into their respectable establishment, but I'd be willing to dress for the occasion if I could get my hands on a machine. :-) What do you think? As I and many other students are future developers, it would be prudent for NeXT to reevaluate its academic distribution policy without delay. On a positive note, I think the decision to include a 40Mb SCSI drive with all OD-only machines is highly commendable, as it reduces the entry cost of a usable system by $2000. For college students, entry cost is the key. If I had my machine right now, I'd be able to write about more substantive issues. I'm a big proponent of the machine; my complaints with NeXT are confined to this issue. Jonathan Dubman UC Berkeley >From: iyengar@grad2.cis.upenn.edu (Anand Iyengar)
Date: Sun 27-Oct-1989 22:12:31 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Getting machines to students In article <1989Oct25.042130.13037@agate.berkeley.edu> dubman@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jonathan Dubman) writes: > >I think NeXT is the best-run computer manufacturer in the U.S., but the >method of getting machines to students appears slow and chaotic. If you in the U.S. are complaining, what should we poor outsiders in Europe say? >Over a year past the introduction of a machine targeted at academia, I can't >buy one at one of the largest academic institutions in the world. However, I >am allowed to drive to UC Davis, where delivery supposedly takes 30 days and >there is, I believe, a 15% fee, which exceeds the price of a Mac Plus at our >local academic outlet. With tax, this brings the price of the entry-level >machine to over eight thousand dollars. Reportedly UC Davis has sold but ten >machines over the past year. With those terms, I'm not surprised. If I'd had the opportunity to get a NeXT at those conditions, I'd have bought one long ago. At least you CAN buy one! >PROPOSAL: >Maybe an agreement could be reached with Businessland whereby students offer >proof of school registration and Businessland gets a $3500 or so rebate. Hear, hear! Extend this offer to students all over the world, I say! >As I and many other students are future developers, it would be prudent for >NeXT to reevaluate its academic distribution policy without delay. Oh boy, how true this sounds! >If I had my machine right now, I'd be able to write about more substantive >issues. I'm a big proponent of the machine; my complaints with NeXT are >confined to this issue. I very much wonder whether it is arrogance or only negligence which has kept NeXT from extending its academic program to universities outside the US. All I keep hearing when I ask about a NeXT in Germany is "maybe next year, around June!". Hey, next year around June a NeXT isn't that hot technology any more. If NeXT wants to make sales on foreign markets, it has to provide foreign developers with machines. Since I now have decided to get a UNIX workstation, I could get all of this off my chest. I've wanted to yell this out for quite some time, but I still kept hoping "maybe I will get in touch with NeXT". Fat chance. My mail didn't even get a reply.
Date: Sun 29-Oct-1989 15:17:23 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Getting machines to students >I very much wonder whether it is arrogance or only negligence which has >kept NeXT from extending its academic program to universities outside the >US. All I keep hearing when I ask about a NeXT in Germany is "maybe next >year, around June!". Hey, next year around June a NeXT isn't that hot >technology any more. If NeXT wants to make sales on foreign markets, it has >to provide foreign developers with machines. Actually there are probably some real buisness/financial/legal reasons. Some issues that come to mind immediatly: 1) It takes time to set up a quality organization for sales and service. How is the average customer in europe going to react when the find out that their machine has to go to the US for service? Some people wont mind but others will want NeXT to build a QUALITY organization so that their dealings with the company will be with the same high standards that the machine was built. 2) Is the current level of non-english language support acceptable to europe or parts of europe. Does the box have to pass extra rfi and safety tests. I know germany has some stiff standards. I am sure there are other issues that have to be dealt with. There are machines in europe (probably UK since BuisnessLand is there) but the question <joe> This reply was generated by myself with no consultation of anyone that works for my employer. It represents no one's opinion but my own. >From: pete@othello.dartmouth.edu (Pete Schmitt)
Date: Sun 30-Oct-1989 09:31:56 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Getting machines to students In article <1989Oct29.151723.22981@uncecs.edu> jfreem@ecsvax.uncecs.edu.UUCP (Joe Freeman) writes: > Does the box have to pass extra rfi and safety tests. >I know germany has some stiff standards. Hey, I'd like to be able to have one at home in the USA. No way with the current RF emissions. Not even close. How about a TEMPEST cube? :-) -=EPS=- >From: dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner)
Date: Sun 30-Oct-1989 14:04:16 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Getting machines to students In article <722@wet.UUCP> epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott) writes: >Hey, I'd like to be able to have one at home in the USA. >No way with the current RF emissions. Not even close. Really? My NeXT is a heck of a lot easier on my radios than my Macintosh, and the Mac is official blessed for home use.
Date: Sun 30-Oct-1989 23:58:52 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Getting machines to students In article <1989Oct29.151723.22981@uncecs.edu> jfreem@uncecs.edu (Joe Freeman) writes: [about why NeXT doesn't ship Cubes to foreign countries, esp. Europe] >Actually there are probably some real buisness/financial/legal reasons. Some >issues that come to mind immediatly: > >1) It takes time to set up a quality organization for sales and service. How >is the average customer in europe going to react when the find out that their >machine has to go to the US for service? Some people wont mind but others >will want NeXT to build a QUALITY organization so that their dealings with the >company will be with the same high standards that the machine was built. You got a point there, it certainly is frightening to know that you have to ship your machine to another continent every time it won't work. When I remember the problems I've had with my previous computers, bought from dealers in my own city, I get the heebie-jeebies thinking what I'd have gone through if my dealer had been in the US. Nevertheless, I would take that risk. And I'm certain a lot of other freaks would, too. Mark my words, I never talked about European business types being offered cubes. I'm talking about the developers, the students, the hackers who want to be in touch with the newest technology. >2) Is the current level of non-english language support acceptable to europe >or parts of europe. Again, that wouldn't be of great concern to the real enthusiasts. All I need is my TeX supporting national character sets and I'm happy. Not so the average business type. He would of course demand to be able to use the Cube in his own language. > Does the box have to pass extra rfi and safety tests. >I know germany has some stiff standards. It sure does, but I know of cubes that have been imported to Germany. Maybe they got special licenses. If Big Blue with their noisy PS/2s can get a license, so can NeXT. >I am sure there are other issues that have to be dealt with. There are >machines in europe (probably UK since BuisnessLand is there) but the question >is: Do you throw the machines out there or do you do distribution right. > ><joe> I am fully aware of the problems. That's the price you pay for being up to date. All I ask for is the choice. Getting a Cube with less than perfect service or not getting one at all.
Date: Sun 31-Oct-1989 17:35:59 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Getting machines to students <1989Oct29.151723.22981@uncecs.edu> <722@wet.UUCP> In article <722@wet.UUCP> epsilon@wet.UUCP (Eric P. Scott) writes: In article <1989Oct29.151723.22981@uncecs.edu> jfreem@ecsvax.uncecs.edu.UUCP (Joe Freeman) writes: > Does the box have to pass extra rfi and safety tests. >I know germany has some stiff standards. Hey, I'd like to be able to have one at home in the USA. No way with the current RF emissions. Not even close. Are you running with the case off, or what? I've taken a NeXT home and done a moderate scan of the RF spectrum with the receivers I have available (AM, FM, TV, HF/VHF/UHF ham bands). No signals at all. Compare this to my Mac Plus that wipes out most of the 10 meter ham band, and puts lots of signals other places. (Or even worse, my old retired modem that even wipes out FM). We've done some checking here (we care about stuff like Tempest), and the NeXT system is one of the cleaner ones around. So maybe you should "check your work" Denis >From: izumi@violet.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa)
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.