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Date: Sun 12-Dec-1989 16:19:26 From: Unknown Subject: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair Our NeXTs arrived last Monday, so far our expectations have been exceeded. However, the real test will come when we start developing software on them. Our biggest problem right now is connecting our cubes to our ethernet. It is a problem because our building is only wired with twisted-pair thick-net ethernet. Our networking people tell me that I need a thick-net to thin-net bridge or repeater, at a cost of around $2,600! Has anyone else out there done this type of connection? If so, how did you do it and how much did you pay? Please note: Our building is wired with TWISTED-PAIR thick-net, not coaxial thick-net. I would much rather use $2,600 towards memory, Frame, and other useful things. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bob /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ / Bob Powell Internet: rhp@inel.gov US Mail: P.O. Box 1625 \ | EG&G Idaho, Inc. Phone: (208) 526-8107 M.S. 1206 | \ Idaho National Engineering Laboratory Idaho Falls, ID 83415 / >From: izumi@violet.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa)
Date: Sun 13-Dec-1989 09:15:58 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair In article <341@egg-idINEL.GOV> rhp@INEL.GOV (Robert Powell) writes: > >It is a problem because our building is only wired with twisted-pair thick-net >ethernet. Our networking people tell me that I need a thick-net to thin-net >bridge or repeater, at a cost of around $2,600! Has anyone else out there We, at UC Berkeley, have the same problem, and I am anxiously waiting our computer center people to come up with a solution. However, I noticed several articles back about a router/bridge made out of a cheap PC XT clone + 2 Western Digital Ethernet cards for under $800-900. If this box can have 1 twisted-pair Ethernet card and another thin-Ethernet card, it should do the job. Whoever posted that article, would you clarify this point? If you also know Model numbers of such Ethernet cards, please let us know. Thanks. Izumi Ohzawa, izumi@violet.berkeley.edu >From: lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee)
Date: Sun 13-Dec-1989 14:54:55 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair >From article <341@egg-idINEL.GOV>, by rhp@INEL.GOV (Robert Powell): " ... " Our biggest problem right now is connecting our cubes to our ethernet. It " is a problem because our building is only wired with twisted-pair thick-net " ethernet. Our networking people tell me that I need a thick-net to thin-net " bridge or repeater, at a cost of around $2,600! ... I thought thick-net and twisted-pair ethernet were different animals. There is a twisted-pair to thin-net converter in the DEC catalog for, I think I recall, $400 for a pack of 8. Something like that. I don't know whether that would be suitable. The subject of connecting thick-net to thin-net came up before in this newsgroup, and it was said that you can just stick them together directly with a connector. Following is some of that past discussion. Greg, lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu >From: jbn@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (John B. Nagle)
Date: Sun 14-Dec-1989 03:58:18 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair In article <5719@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> lee@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Greg Lee) writes: >The subject of connecting thick-net to thin-net came up before >in this newsgroup, and it was said that you can just >stick them together directly with a connector. Following is some >of that past discussion. Thank you for the collection of past articles. Unfortunately, this splicing of Thick (Yellow) and thin (usually black) Ethernet coax cables is not an option for many sites with NeXT connection problems. Our computer center would not allow this, and I would not either if I were the caretaker of the network. The problem is NOT the connection to thick coax, but the connection to the BLUE transiver cable (containing multiple twisted-pairs) usually terminated by a 15-pin D connector. It's really a connection problem to a "DELNI-net". For this, some sort of active device is needed, and a simple connector and a splicing kit won't do. Izumi Ohzawa, izumi@violet.berkeley.edu >From: jacob@gore.com (Jacob Gore)
Date: Sun 14-Dec-1989 05:00:11 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair In article <341@egg-idINEL.GOV> rhp@INEL.GOV (Robert Powell) writes: >It is a problem because our building is only wired with twisted-pair thick-net >ethernet. Our networking people tell me that I need a thick-net to thin-net >bridge or repeater, at a cost of around $2,600! Has anyone else out there / comp.sys.next / izumi@violet.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) / Dec 13, 1989 / > ... I noticed several articles back about a router/bridge > made out of a cheap PC XT clone + 2 Western Digital Ethernet cards > for under $800-900. If this box can have 1 twisted-pair Ethernet > card and another thin-Ethernet card, it should do the job. > >Whoever posted that article, would you clarify this point? OK, here it is. It certainly can be done, but it's probably not the best way to do it. Your best bet is calling the supplier (or manufacturer) of your TP hub and asking them if they have a TP to Thinnet converter. I'm told that Cabletron has one for their TP for about $500 (I don't know if that is educational or "normal" price). Also, I know HP sells (or at least it did last year) an adapter that hooks in between a drop cable from a transceiver on one side and a Thinnet outlet on the other. Sorry, I don't have the part number or the price. You would still need a TP transceiver between the TP wire and the drop cable. If you do want to use a PC for this, here are the considerations: The way things are done now, you pretty much need to buy your TP transceiver and the TP hub from the same manufacturer. So, if you do buy a TP Ethernet card from Western Digital, you have to make sure that it is compatible compatible with your hub (i.e., ask them before you buy). In the likely event that it's NOT compatible with your hub, you can simply buy the standard card (WD8003E, a.k.a. "EtherCard Plus", I believe) and use the TP transceiver from your hub's vendor and a drop cable to connect to the Thicknet port on the card. The card also has a Thinnet port, so you can just buy two WD8003E. (No, you can't get by with just one card, you need one for each network.) Unless you really want to have a separate IP subnet on your side of the PC, instead of PCroute you should use its sibling, PCbridge. It is available from the same places (definitely accuvax.nwu.edu and probably uunet.uu.net). It is simpler to set up (no configuration required), and you won't end up having to assign an IP subnet just for one NeXT -- it will be on the same IP subnet as all the other hosts on that TP network. For PCbridge you may want a faster PC than for PCroute, because unlike a router, a bridge forwards every single packet it gets. Packet forwarding in PCroute/PCbridge is several times slower than packet filtering. By the way, I should mention that you do NOT need a monitor card or a monitor, as long as the boot PROMs of the PC clone you buy do not insist on checking for one (most don't). So, here are the details about how you can use a PC between networks (not the only way to do it, there is other software too). I personally would opt for a TP to Thinnet adapter from the TP vendor if it was available, and if not, I'd go for a single-port receiver from Cabletron (not the only source, but my personal favorite). A PC clone just seems like a rather bulky transceiver... Jacob
Date: Sun 14-Dec-1989 06:02:04 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair Those considering using PCroute or PCbridge should read Vance Morrison's posting in comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc under subject "Re: Request for Summary Info on 'PCRoute'" (<2117@accuvax.nwu.edu>). Jacob
Date: Sun 14-Dec-1989 05:00:11 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair In article <341@egg-idINEL.GOV> rhp@INEL.GOV (Robert Powell) writes: >It is a problem because our building is only wired with twisted-pair thick-net >ethernet. Our networking people tell me that I need a thick-net to thin-net >bridge or repeater, at a cost of around $2,600! Has anyone else out there / comp.sys.next / izumi@violet.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) / Dec 13, 1989 / > ... I noticed several articles back about a router/bridge > made out of a cheap PC XT clone + 2 Western Digital Ethernet cards > for under $800-900. If this box can have 1 twisted-pair Ethernet > card and another thin-Ethernet card, it should do the job. > >Whoever posted that article, would you clarify this point? OK, here it is. It certainly can be done, but it's probably not the best way to do it. Your best bet is calling the supplier (or manufacturer) of your TP hub and asking them if they have a TP to Thinnet converter. I'm told that Cabletron has one for their TP for about $500 (I don't know if that is educational or "normal" price). Also, I know HP sells (or at least it did last year) an adapter that hooks in between a drop cable from a transceiver on one side and a Thinnet outlet on the other. Sorry, I don't have the part number or the price. You would still need a TP transceiver between the TP wire and the drop cable. If you do want to use a PC for this, here are the considerations: The way things are done now, you pretty much need to buy your TP transceiver and the TP hub from the same manufacturer. So, if you do buy a TP Ethernet card from Western Digital, you have to make sure that it is compatible compatible with your hub (i.e., ask them before you buy). In the likely event that it's NOT compatible with your hub, you can simply buy the standard card (WD8003E, a.k.a. "EtherCard Plus", I believe) and use the TP transceiver from your hub's vendor and a drop cable to connect to the Thicknet port on the card. The card also has a Thinnet port, so you can just buy two WD8003E. (No, you can't get by with just one card, you need one for each network.) Unless you really want to have a separate IP subnet on your side of the PC, instead of PCroute you should use its sibling, PCbridge. It is available from the same places (definitely accuvax.nwu.edu and probably uunet.uu.net). It is simpler to set up (no configuration required), and you won't end up having to assign an IP subnet just for one NeXT -- it will be on the same IP subnet as all the other hosts on that TP network. For PCbridge you may want a faster PC than for PCroute, because unlike a router, a bridge forwards every single packet it gets. Packet forwarding in PCroute/PCbridge is several times slower than packet filtering. By the way, I should mention that you do NOT need a monitor card or a monitor, as long as the boot PROMs of the PC clone you buy do not insist on checking for one (most don't). So, here are the details about how you can use a PC between networks (not the only way to do it, there is other software too). I personally would opt for a TP to Thinnet adapter from the TP vendor if it was available, and if not, I'd go for a single-port receiver from Cabletron (not the only source, but my personal favorite). A PC clone just seems like a rather bulky transceiver... Jacob
Date: Sun 14-Dec-1989 07:41:10 From: Unknown Subject: Re: Connecting a NeXT to twisted-pair In article <1989Dec14.035818.5544@agate.berkeley.edu> izumi@violet.berkeley.edu (Izumi Ohzawa) writes: >The problem is NOT the connection to thick coax, but the >connection to the BLUE transiver cable (containing multiple >twisted-pairs) usually terminated by a 15-pin D connector. You could always do what a user here tried. Hook the transceiver up to the DSP port. Jonathan (my LANalyzer plays Bach) Hue >From: chari@nueces.cactus.org (Chris Whatley)
These are the contents of the former NiCE NeXT User Group NeXTSTEP/OpenStep software archive, currently hosted by Marcel Waldvogel and Netfuture.ch.